Prabhupāda: Some philosophers are trying to make these things void. But actually I am existing. I am existing in misunderstanding. But that does not mean I am not existing. I am not void. Just like I am existing within this apartment. But instead of knowing myself, I have identified this apartment: "myself." So to simply to understand that "I am not this apartment" is not perfect knowledge. Then what is my position? What I am actually? When we come to that consciousness... At the present moment, I am conscious of this body, of this country, of this society, of the family. But when I perfectly understand that I am not any of these things, then my consciousness also changes because at the present moment my consciousness is absorbed with all these things. So as soon as I understand that I am not all these, then my consciousness must change, not that my consciousness will stop. If I am in misunderstanding, if I come to the right understanding, that does not mean my understanding is stopped. Rather, my understanding becomes purified.
Perfectly (Conv. 1968 - 1974)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So this association is required. If you can make your Kṛṣṇa consciousness society perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, wherever you will go, they will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, simply by your presence. So you have to become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There should be no adulteration. That adulteration means that knowledge and fruitive activities and material desires. If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is freed from these three kinds of contamination, then that is pure. (end)
Prabhupāda: In India, due to her long subjugation by the foreigners, practically the so-called educated persons, they have lost their original culture. Rather, those who are not so-called educated, following the traditional rules and regulations, they are more Kṛṣṇa conscious. And the educated circle, they are thinking that this religious temperament is the cause of India's economic fall-down. But actually, that is not the fact. So not only India, in other countries also they are trying to imitate the economic situation or economic development of other countries, especially of America, but they do not find that in America, although the boys and girls, the younger generation, they are born of rich family, rich nation, they are still confused, and they are also hankering after something better. So the policy followed by India now, that is, to imitate the Western way of life, is not very happy mood. This means they have lost their original culture. And so far Western countries are concerned, I think they have sufficient arrangement for material comforts. Now they can very easily take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because they have no disturbance for material hankering. And I think it is the time for them to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make them perfectly well.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I told you that I do not expect that everyone will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. But if there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient to eradicate the darkness. You don't require many stars. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. If one man understands perfectly what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, he can do tremendous benefit to the other people. So you are all intelligent boys and girls. You try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with all your reason or argument. But try to understand it seriously. Don't make it a farce. That is the object of life.
Prabhupāda: You simply talk of him? You practice Buddha if you appreciate him. You give up everything like Buddha and meditate. But that you will not do. Then what is the talking of, useless talking about this? Do something. Either you believe Buddha or Jesus Christ or Kṛṣṇa. Do something. Don't talk simply. Lord Buddha is very nice. He gave up his kingdom in youthful life. He was prince. He thought, "It is all nonsense. Let me meditate." Do like that. That is the disease. We won't do anything. We talk much of this, that, this, that. Do anything, but do it perfectly. "Jack of all trade, master of none." That is not good. Be master of something. It doesn't differ. Either you follow Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter much. But do it perfectly. That is our request.
Prabhupāda: How he surrenders? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: (BG 7.19) oh! Kṛṣṇa is everything. The Vedānta-sūtra gives hint, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), what is Brahmā, what is supreme? Athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about Brahmān, the Supreme. The answer is Brahman is that or He who is the original source of everything. We have to find out who is the original source, so that requires wisdom. So when one is perfectly wise after many, many births, cultured, he sees, "Ah, here is the original, Kṛṣṇa," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19), that mahātmā, great soul, is very rare to be seen, who has surrendered. So our... We are giving the shortcut process: what one has to attain after many, many births, we are simply saying is surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all. This is the greatest boon or, what is called, greatest reward or contribution to the human society. And if actually one is wise, then he'll take our word that if one has to come to this point after many, many births, that Kṛṣṇa is everything, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), to understand, why not accept it immediately?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, Christ... Of course, this question was several times put to me. Christ says that "I am son of God." And Kṛṣṇa says "I am God." So there is no difference. Son of God and God, we respect everyone. If I respect your father, I respect you also. Do you mean to say if I disrespect your father, you'll be pleased upon me? No. That is our philosophy. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that I am servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa (CC Madhya 13.80). So if anyone loves Kṛṣṇa, he must love Lord Jesus Christ also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus Christ he must love Kṛṣṇa. If he says, "Why shall I love Kṛṣṇa? I shall love Jesus Christ," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus Christ? I shall love...", then he has also no knowledge. If one understands Kṛṣṇa, then he will understand Jesus Christ. If one understands Jesus Christ, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: People can be peaceful by knowing three things. If he perfectly understands only three things, then he'll become peaceful. What is that? Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. All the sacrifices, austerities, penances, whatever people are undertaking for perfection, the enjoyer of such activities, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am." "I am." Just like your activities. This is also a kind of austerities. Your artistic songs, they have become popular because you have undergone some austerities. You have come to the perfection. That requires penance and austerities. Or any scientific discovery, that requires austerities. So every nice thing presented in the world, that requires austerity. Very devout, painstaking. Then it becomes successful. That is called yajña. Tapasya. So Kṛṣṇa says, "The result of the tapasya enjoyer, I am." He is claiming. "The result of your tapasya should come to Me." Then you'll be satisfied. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). People are claiming, "This is my England," and "This is my India," "This is my Germany," "This is my China." No. Everything belongs to God, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: "I am the origin. I am the source of everything. Everything emanates from Me. One who knows this science perfectly, he is budhā, he is intelligent, and he becomes engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And the Vedānta-sūtra also, the first aphorism is athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now it is the time for inquiry about the Absolute, Brahman." So what is Brahman? The next aphorism is janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "Brahman, the Absolute, is that from whom everything is coming, emanating." That Absolute is personally saying, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "Everything is emanating from Me." So if you study Vedic literature very scrutinizingly, then you come to this conclusion, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness will include all other knowledge. Just like if you have got million dollar, ten dollar is included, five hundred dollar is included, thousand dollar is included. But one who has got ten dollar or five hundred dollar, he cannot claim that he has got million dollar.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If anyone is serving the cause of his religion very perfectly, very nicely, so-called nicely, but after serving or observing the rules and regulation, one's religious principles, if he does not understand what is God and relationship with Him and does not become attracted to Kṛṣṇa, or God, then all, whatever he has done, it is simply waste of time. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice and so important. Aiye Aiye. You can make some place here. Make. Oh, you have to go. Now available. Available. (?) Yes, we are ready. Come. By who? He did not know? Then where...?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): Perfectly, you see... What is the category of different perfection?
Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. That you have to learn.
Guest (1): No, no, learn from whom?
Prabhupāda: From the higher authority.
Guest (1): So how we know?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, who is higher authority. That you have to search out. That you have to search out.
Guest (1): We must understand what is higher person and what is lower and whether Buddha is correct or not.
Prabhupāda: Now, higher authority... Suppose we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is already there but when you see, you see, you see that it is birth. The sunrise is already somewhere, and the sunset is also already somewhere but in your angle of vision there is no sun. That is going on. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's birth, every moment; Kṛṣṇa's disappearance, every moment; Kṛṣṇa's existence, every moment. You have to learn that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9), transcendental. Yo janati tattvataḥ. Anyone who knows it perfectly, in truth, he becomes liberated. If you have known Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated. But Kṛṣṇa knowing is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). It is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth. Then how one can understand? That is also stated: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Not by speculation of knowledge. Bhaktya. And what is that bhakti? Anyābhilaṣita-śunyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlānaṁ bhaktir uttama (CC Madhya 19.167)(Brs. 1.1.11). So these things you have to learn. Then there is possibility of knowledge, tad-vijñāna.
Guest: How he may perfectly judge it? How the person will judge himself that I am doing...?
Prabhupāda: No. He'll not judge. His spiritual master will judge. Kṛṣṇa's representative. He'll not judge. He will make mistake. Therefore, if one has accepted a bona fide spiritual master, that means he is in direct touch with Kṛṣṇa. Transparent media. He has to see Kṛṣṇa through the transparent medium of spiritual master. Therefore it is imperative, one has to accept a... Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreyaḥ uttamam (SB 11.3.21). And what kind of guru? Śabde pare ca niṣṇataṁ brahmaṇy upāśamāśrayam. So this is a big science. One has to study. One has to understand. The things are there. There is no difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Liberated means at the present moment under this material, in this material world, he is accepting material body, and when he is bona fide servant of Kṛṣṇa, he'll be offered a spiritual body. Just like a soldier. A person, so long he's not a soldier, he does not, he is not awarded the uniform. But as soon as he accepts the service as a soldier, immediately he is given the uniform. So you are accepting different bodies in the material world, and that is bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). You are accepting one type of body, it is becoming vāṇīshed, again you have to accept another. But as soon as you become perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then, after leaving this body, he does not come to this material world. He is immediately... Mam eti, he transfers. Similarly, he accepts spiritual body. Is it clear or not? You are accepting material body now, birth after birth. Is it not? That is transmigration. Sometimes you are accepting human body, sometimes you are accepting dog's body, sometimes you are accepting king's body, sometimes you are accepting somebody else. Is it not? Is it clear?
Pratyatoṣa: These terminals have paper tape punches. You can the punch paper tape and then feed the paper tape into a machine called a photon machine, and you get out a perfectly composed page with... You can have any type size you want, you can have any type of, what do you call it, the face, the typeface, and it'll be perfect for publishing. It'll come right out of that. The whole process is automatic.
Devotee (4): Those tapes can be kept, stored, all the tapes.
Pratyatoṣa: Sure, they can be kept stored. And then... Oh, also, you get free storage with this for 300,000 characters, that's about 100 pages at least.
Devotee (4): This is a wonderful idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't know why no one thought of this before.
Pratyatoṣa: I'll leave this here, OK? I'll leave this here.
Prabhupāda: All right, you read it.
Mr. Arnold: Oh, no. That was Lloyd's that agreed then, because they were trying to save their premises. They knew perfectly well that if it went to someone else then the whole premises, sooner or later, would be torn down.
Prabhupāda: That was it.
Mr. Arnold: Yeah.
Śyāmasundara: So he's, he promised them perpetual lease.
Prabhupāda: At what price it was being sold?
Dhanañjaya: Two and a half million pounds.
Mr. Arnold: Two and a half, which is exactly the price that I told them to put the bid in for. I went over...
Prabhupāda: Two and a half million.
Haṁsadūta: It never comes to perfection. It can, you know. For instance, this little booklet, Easy Journey to Other Planets, one of the things that has been holding it up is because the diacritic marks, to get the diacritic marks in there perfectly... We took it to a professional composer. Of course, they're not experienced, so they didn't, at first they didn't want to do it and then... At any rate, my opinion was first let us print it without the diacritic marks, and then the second edition make it with diacritic marks. Improve it by editions rather than wait until it's completely perfect before we put it on the market because...
Prabhupāda: But if once it is made perfect, then it will be easier to print more and more.
Prabhupāda: No, no, conscious... Suppose you think it is right but it is wrong. That is also cheating. Without knowing the thing perfectly well, if you deliver your knowledge to somebody that's cheating.
Dr. Weir: Well, I think that's being a bit hard when a person is not... If he's tried his best to do something and he doesn't intend to mislead, to call that cheating is a bit hard.
Prabhupāda: No, even if not intend, but if you misguide some way or other without sufficient knowledge, that is also cheating.
Dr. Weir: Well, we would say, using the English language properly, that's a misuse of the word.
Prabhupāda: But, generally, if I'm not in perfect knowledge, if I guide you, that is, according to Vedic version that is cheating. You must be confident of the knowledge perfectly. Then if you deliver the knowledge that is right. Just like our position is that we say what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is God. So we say what Kṛṣṇa says. We don't say anything which does not Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa does not say. Therefore you are confident that we are delivering the right message. We don't manufacture our own philosophy or words. We simply say, "Kṛṣṇa says, 'sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).' " Kṛṣṇa, God, says that you simply surrender unto Me, I take charge of you. We are preaching the same philosophy. That you surrender to God and you'll become happy because God takes charge of you. We don't manufacture our word. That is not cheating.
Dr. Weir: You see, what worries me, Swami, is that there is two ways of making sure (indistinct), each containing this necessity of eating. Now, some people eat (indistinct). They digest it, they live perfectly healthily. They know nothing about carbohydrates, proteins and fats. They know nothing about saliva. They know nothing about enzymes or digestion. Well they live quite satisfactory lives. Other people start worrying about whether they've got the right amount of calories, the right amount of vitamins, whether they're taking enough water at the meal or not. One wonders that if you're starting to, worrying about that, it means somehow you're less perfect than the person who's able to digest quite happily without the knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Well, if you say like that, the majority of living entities, they are eating without this knowledge of enzyme and other things. So if you take votes the votes are greater. Just like human being, a few human beings are interested in analyzing this enzyme. But the human beings are very small quantity. There are 8,400,000 species of life. They're eating with a natural way and they're quite healthy.
Dr. Weir: Knowing him very well, I don't... One would be surprised (indistinct) perfectly happy to feel that I was disagreeing with him. I think he (indistinct) himself to Kṛṣṇa at times.
Mensa Member: Well, is that absolutely (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: The Buddhist thinks that everyone is God.
Prabhupāda: In Buddhist theory there is no acceptance of God. There is simply to diminish, or to nullify the sense of pains and pleasures. That is called nirvāṇa.
Dr. Weir: The atheist is the person who worries most about God. I mean, he really... God must exist but he tries to deny it all. Rather like, I had a lecturer at Oxford who wasn't interested in women. He was a misogynist. He talked, you know (indistinct) and he spent all his time telling you he wasn't interested in women. He thought about nothing but women and the fact that he wasn't interested in them. His lectures were full of it. It was pathetic.
Śyāmasundara: Just like Kaṁsa!
Dr. Weir: Well, I would take up that straight away, fundamentally, that it's perfectly correct to say it's the same size in every (indistinct) has no size.
Prabhupāda: No. It has size. We cannot measure it.
Dr. Weir: That's what I mean. Therefore the word size is a misconception.
Prabhupāda: But that is not a scientific statement. Because you have no measuring instrument you cannot say it has no size.
Dr. Weir: Now what you say it has not got three dimension, but when we talk about size...
Prabhupāda: Yes, three dimension. It is said, it is estimated that ten... one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair.
Dr. Weir: (laughs) We could do better than that with a micron.
Prabhupāda: Then find out the soul, if you've got instrument.
Prabhupāda: Hear and narrate. So, whatever you have heard, you can speak. (break) So, in your country also they do not like this organized Christian religion (indistinct). The difficulty is that either Hindu religion or Christian religion, religion is one. So what is that one religion nobody knows perfectly, and it was not presented because they did not know what is religion. They are simply sticking to a particular kind of faith. Faith can be changed, faith can be given up but real religion, that cannot be given up. It may be perverted. Real religion is to render service to the Supreme Lord. That cannot be changed. We are serving, if not to the Lord, we are serving māyā. But my, that characteristic to serve is continued. So religion is presented simply on formulas and stereo-typed ideas, but actual religion is this surrender. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Bhakti means serving. Bhaja sevayā. Sevayā means serving. So, religion means to serve the Supreme Lord, that is religion. Anything which has no such idea, that is not religion. Then again (you) have different types of religion, how far they are making progress with, on that ultimate goal, serving Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (3): See the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the līlā is death mostly. But it isn't death, the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says, "I want to go to Jesus, but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do?" And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested, therefore people are leaving religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope, better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: A rascal. That is called (Sanskrit), jugglery of words. It has no value. Anyone who is trying to present... Just like Aurabindo, he has no idea what is Kṛṣṇa and writing so many nonsense things. Vivekananda, he has no idea. Dr. Radhakrishnan. Rabindranath Tagore, he has no idea what is God, but he is writing Gītāñjali. That should be tested by life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu speaking āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya, He behaves Himself perfectly and then teaches how to become a devotee. He is mad after Kṛṣṇa, He is falling down in the sea. You see? So that is wanted. And the Bhāgavata also says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir (SB 1.2.6), how one has increased his devotion and love for Kṛṣṇa, that is the test of it. Not these formalities. Another place Kṛṣṇa says, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Even sudurācāraḥ, even not well behaved but unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30), he is sādhu. Don't consider about his misbehaviors. That is not consideration. That will be corrected. Because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, gradually those things, those defects will be corrected. kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati, he will become very soon a great religious soul because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa. So in the beginning if there is some defect, we should not consider that. We have to see how much his love for Kṛṣṇa has increased, that is the test. Not the formalities.
Prabhupāda: Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśaḥ. You can present a literature very perfect from literary point of view, from metaphor and poetical, rhetorical, very perfectly written, citra-padam, attractive by language. Na yad vacaś citra-padam, such kind of literature, if there is no description of the glories of the Lord, na tad vacaś citra-padam. Just like there are so many sex literatures, very attractive, it is selling like anything. But we are not interested in those rascal literatures. Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham, such literature is considered as the place of enjoyment of the crows. Vāyasam means crow. The crow take enjoyment in the garbage, you have seen? They won't go in a nice place. They will come all together. Just like vultures, they come together to take pleasure in a corpse, dead body. But a white swan, rāja-haṁsa, he goes to a place where there is nice water, lilies and lotus and nice trees. You have seen that St. James Park? They will find out such nice place. They won't go to imitate the crows. The crows-like people will take pleasure in such nonsense literature, sex literature, or any such literature. So many nonsense literatures nowadays they are having good sale.
Girirāja: There are other things which we're instructed to do which even though we try to do we cannot do perfectly yet.
Prabhupāda: How is that? You try to do and cannot do? How it is?
Girirāja: Like chanting attentively. Sometimes we try to...
Prabhupāda: That is not fault. Suppose you are trying to do something and due to your inexperience you sometimes fail, that is not fault. You are trying. There is a verse in Bhāgavata that a devotee is trying his best, but due to his incapability he sometimes fails. So Kṛṣṇa excuses. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk (BG 9.30). By, due to his bad habit, past, sometimes, not willingly, but due to his habit, habit is second nature, he does something nonsense. But that does not mean he is faulty. But he must repent for that, that "I have done this." And should try to avoid as far as possible. But habit is the second nature. Sometimes, in spite of our trying hard, the māyā is so strong, push me into pitfalls. That can be excused. Kṛṣṇa excuses.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, everyone has to hear either from Kṛṣṇa or from His bona fide representative. That is śrotriyam. And the result will be that after becoming student of such bona fide guru, one will be firmly fixed up in God consciousness. That is the result, firmly fixed up. Now, these boys from foreign countries, according to our geographical arrangement, they are foreigners. But we don't see anything foreign. We see every land belongs to Kṛṣṇa and everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So we have no such distinction. But still, from materialistic point of view, these boys and girls, they, three or four years ago they did not know what is this word Kṛṣṇa. But now they are so perfectly devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and nobody can deviate them. If somebody says that "You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and take..." Now here is Śyāmasundara. His father is very, very rich man, young man. He is always canvassing him that—he is only son—that "You come, do business. You take millions of dollars, whatever you like." He is not going. There are many like that. They cannot give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you know our Jagatāriṇī, wife of Bhūrijana, she was a theatrical girl and earning millions of dollars, but she has given up everything. You have seen his wife, you all, Bhūrijana's wife? She is a nice girl, educated, qualified. But she is satisfied. I asked her to go and marry Bhūrijana.
Prabhupāda: Temple must have. Even ordinary gṛhastha. That is Vedic civilization, not that we cook for ourself, for my husband, for my wife and children, eat it sumptuously and go to bed. No. Even gṛhastha, he should be always prepared to receive guest. Yes. And even a guest comes, your enemy, you should receive him in such a nice way that he will forget that you are all enemies. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. This is Vedic civilization, not that "Beware of dog. Please don't enter here. You are forbidden to come here. And if you come, I shall shoot you." Sometimes they do that. This is not human civilization. It is cats' and dogs' civilization. So actually we are teaching what is human civilization. But we must be also like human being, not cats and dogs. Otherwise how can you teach? If I am like cats and dogs, I cannot criticize others as cats and dogs. I must be first of all human being. Then I shall teach others how to become human being. I must become first of all devotee. Then I shall request others to become devotee. Āpani ācari jīve śikhāilā bhakti. First behave yourself perfectly; then teach others to become perfect.
Prabhupāda: That means perfect knowledge. Ah, I am seeing that this rose flower is growing, but I do not know how it is growing. If I know perfectly how it is growing, that is science. We know that, how it is growing. Bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ (BG 7.10). The seed of this rose tree is Kṛṣṇa. All kinds of seeds are Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, from one seed you find a tree is growing from which a perfect rose of yellow color is coming. And another tree, a perfect rose of red color is coming or variety of color is coming. The seed is different. Otherwise the earth is the one, the water is the one, but because the seed is different, therefore different plants are coming and different results are coming. But the seeds are Kṛṣṇa. This is our observation. You cannot create the seed. You cannot create in your laboratory the seed of... What is that tree?
Prabhupāda: When one is perfectly Kṛṣṇa's devotee, he may not come, but if there is little deficiency, then there is possibility of coming back. But even though there is deficiency, he comes back to nice family, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo sañjāyate (BG 6.41). (aside:) What is this? Human intelligence can decide for future. That is human intelligence. The animal cannot decide. We have got that discriminating power developed, "I shall do this, I will be benefited. If I do this, I shall not be benefited." This is there in human life. So we have to use it properly. We should know what is our goal of life and decide in that way. That is human intelligence. What is that?
Prabhupāda: That our senses are imperfect means, just like I have given the example, I can see the sun, but I do not see the sun perfectly. I have got the power to see the sun, but I do not know how big is the sun. That power I haven't got. In that way my senses are imperfect. So when I see the sun and hear about him from a perfect person who knows about the sun, then my knowledge becomes perfect, although I have got imperfect senses. Just like I cannot understand President Nixon by my speculation, but when President speaks about him I can understand, although I have got imperfect senses. This is the process. Imperfect in this way: that our senses cannot approach to the ultimate point by speculation.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For example, in chemical elements, the elements like helium, neon, argon, these are called inert gasses, these are called ideal gasses, because they behave ideally under the assumptions of scientific theories. It fits perfectly well to their theory, so they call these gasses ideal gasses. And gasses like oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen, these are nonideal gasses because they do not behave properly like helium or neon. So the (indistinct), first they develop the theory from these ideal gasses, and then when the theory doesn't fit to the gasses, like hydrogen and oxygen, they modify it. So they call these are nonideal gasses. So accordingly the theory is modified. They put certain numbers to adjust their modifications. So in all..., most scientific theories, they develop something that is called ideal; and from that ideality, they extrapolate these so-called other theories. That is almost in all scientific theories.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...planet, Vaikuṇṭha planet, and Kṛṣṇa comes to show us the ideal place in Vṛndāvana. The sample Vṛndāvana is here. So why do you say it is utopian?
Jayatīrtha: ...was saying last night to our scientist friend, than Kṛṣṇa is the perfect teacher. The spiritual master is simply repeating perfectly what Kṛṣṇa is saying. So if Kṛṣṇa is saying, "Surrender to Me," then the spiritual master is saying, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: So in this way, the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa are in complete agreement.
Prabhupāda: Thus he becomes the (indistinct) of Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: The other teachers, they don't talk...
Prabhupāda: When is Ekādaśī?
Prabhupāda: Then whatever he teaches is perfect, because to the surrendered soul Kṛṣṇa gives the intelligence. So when he speaks, he speaks perfectly because Kṛṣṇa is dictating, "You do this, you speak like this."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says to Sanātana Gosvāmī that spiritual life starts by accepting..., the moment the disciple accepts a spiritual master. And then he follows the instruction that...
Prabhupāda: Ādau gurvāśrayam, ādau first to accept a spiritual master. Sad-dharma pṛcchā. Then inquiries. Sādhu mārgānugamanam. These are stated in our Nectar of Devotion.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is... The Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like before learning any literature, one has to read the first book, ABCD. The Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD. It is just beginning of understanding of what is God. ABC. When one has passed the entrance examination, then he gets the opportunity of studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the Bhagavad-gītā the last instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is explaining Himself, and at last He says that you surrender unto me. That is the most confidential part of knowledge. So if one has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, then He's admitted in the college of studying Bhāgavata. Before that he has no place. Just like without passing entrance examination, nobody's admitted in the college course. Similarly, without understanding Bhagavad-gītā perfectly well, one cannot understand what is Bhāgavata. Bhāgavata is the graduate study. So this Vedānta-sūtra, the Vedānta-sūtra is the summarized study of all Vedic knowledge.
Prabhupāda: This is darkness. This is darkness. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to give enlightenment to the people at large, to understand the values of life. Not to live like animals, eating, sleeping, sex life and dying. This is animal life. This is the best humanitarian welfare activities: to make people understand scientifically what he is, what is God, what is our relationship with God. So the Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of this science. So this should be presented very scientifically. One who knows perfectly well about this Bhagavad-gītā. These are the (indistinct) crucial point. That one... Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). There's so many very touch(?) point. If they are not very, explained nicely people will remain in darkness.
Scholar: But we think in the present day, Indonesia's, we think about harmonizing spiritual and material aspects of life, this our...
Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama. The human society must be divided. Then, just like in this body there are four divisions—the head division, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division—all these are required for complete body. Although, by comparative study, head is the most important department, but still the leg is not... that we don't require leg. Leg is also required. Similarly, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they're required to function the society perfectly. That is varṇa. And similarly, for spiritual emancipation there must be the division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So unless you accept this institution perfectly you cannot develop your consciousness as perfect human being.
Prabhupāda: What is that, estimating. Estimate how many...?
Karandhara: They cannot count perfectly. So they estimate.
Prabhupāda: Rough idea. (pause) So on the sea side, it is more pleasant than in the park. Is it not? Brace air. (pause) This is bike route? Bicycle route?
Karandhara: Yes. (pause)
Prabhupāda: The car looks like governor's car.
Devotee: Jagad-guru (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa (end)
Prabhupāda: Doubtful. That means not perfect knowledge. So how they can say that there is no God. They can say: "Yes, there may be or may not be. We do not know." That is a gentleman. How they can say there is no God? And people are misled. "Oh, such and such scientist has said there is no God. Therefore there is no God." He does not know that he's a perfectly foolish. His statement has no value. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), because he has posed himself as a very big man, people follow him blindly and they're misled.
Karandhara: Like the Russians...
Prabhupāda: Oh, they are set of fools.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They do not believe in God, the Russians?
Prabhupāda: No. They are all rascals. I have studied them in one week.
Prabhupāda: They know. Because they have full knowledge, "He knows here is God. Although he is four-handed, I am four-handed, but here is God." Because there is full knowledge. That is the difference. Here we are selecting some rascal as God, because we have no full knowledge. There, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, although the common citizens and God is of the same feature of the bodily, but they know, "Here is God, the Supreme." He has got special signs in the... Yes, that's all. Just like the king or the president, we may make mistake. We may accept somebody as "Here is president." No. But the associates of the president, he knows. They know that "Here is president." Similarly, there is no question of mistake there. Four kinds of defects of material life—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat, and imperfection of the senses—these things are not there. Everyone's senses are perfect. When he sees God, he sees perfectly. He does not mistake. He is not illusioned. And there is no cheating and there is no imperfection of the senses. There is no mistake. These are spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is better to become honest. If I do not know anything perfectly I should not be teacher. That is right thing. And if I have got doubtful knowledge, perhaps, maybe, why shall I be teacher. I should, "No, no I cannot teach. The subject is unknown." That is our process.
Mr. Wadell: Yes. I must say that I, there are many things of which I haven't got knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. That is going on. Therefore people are misled.
Mr. Wadell: No. I would mislead them more if I said that I knew.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no. If you do not know, why should you say you knew? That is another cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That admission, that's all right. But in that case, one should not take the post of the teacher. That is our Vedic injunction. One must know perfectly.
Mr. Wadell: You may well be right. (laughter) But actually, I think there are many things which, about which knowledge is changing. There are things...
Prabhupāda: That means cheating.
Mr. Wadell: I see you have here, certain bits of equipment which didn't exist...
Prabhupāda: That is described in the Vedic literature: andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "A blind man is trying to lead other blind men."
Mr. Wadell: I suspect that that is as probably very near to the truth of human situation...
Prabhupāda: No, that... That is... You have to see through the śāstra. śāstra-cakṣuṣā. Just like you see the sun just like a disc, but when you go through the śāstra, authorized books, you understand that it is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So what is the value of your seeing? Why do you believe you're seeing so much? Your all seeing is defective. You cannot say that you are perfectly seeing. You cannot say that.
Student (1): Do you believe that there are other ways...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of belief. Now let us quest... We believe that "If I see, that is all right," but what is the value of your seeing? You cannot see beyond this wall. Does it mean there is nothing? So what is the value of your seeing? First of all you consider. You are questioning that "I cannot see," but what is the value of your seeing?
Prabhupāda: In the yoga system, as described in this chapter, there are two kinds of samādhi, called samprajñāta-samādhi and asamprajñāta-samādhi. When one becomes situated in the transcendental position by various philosophical researches, it is called samprajñāta-samādhi. In the asamprajñāta-samādhi there is no longer any connection with mundane pleasure, for one is then transcendental to all sorts of happiness derived from the senses. When the yogī is once situated in that transcendental position, he is never shaken from it. Unless the yogī is able to reach this position, he is unsuccessful. Today's so-called yoga practice, which involves various sense pleasures, is contradictory. A yogī indulging in sex and intoxication is a mockery. Even those yogīs who are attracted by the siddhis (perfections) in the process of yoga are not perfectly situated. If the yogīs are attracted by the by-products of yoga, then they cannot attain the stage of perfection, as is stated in this verse.
Prabhupāda: So these devotees, they have not been separately instructed about hospitality. But because they are devotees of the Lord, this hospitality automatically they learn. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one becomes perfectly a devotee of the Lord, all the good qualities of demigods manifest automatically. The hospitality is also a good quality. So out of many good qualities, this is one of them. So these devotees, they are automatically well-behaving to the guests, newcomers on account of their advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because a Kṛṣṇa conscious person takes everyone, not only human being, but even animals, insects, trees, birds, beasts, everyone, living entities, as part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. So it is their duty to behave well with all living entities. Not only the human beings, but also even with the animals.
Pradyumna: "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts."
Prabhupāda: This, origin. So as a scientist, what is your opinion upon this?
Malcolm: It is not for me to speak.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Malcolm: It is not for me to speak.
Prabhupāda: You don't speak?
Śyāmasundara: He's a little humble. He...
Prabhupāda: So you can take it from us, from the Bhagavad-gītā, that God is the origin of everything. Earth, water, air... (Child crying.) (Aside:) Come on. He can eat?
Revatīnandana: But if a devotee knows Kṛṣṇa, if he knows of Kṛṣṇa, then wherever he is destined, he will go perfectly to his perfect position. Just like Bhīṣma knew Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Mad-yājino yānti mām. Kṛṣṇa devotees, they go directly, especially those who are worshiping Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They directly go to Kṛṣṇaloka.
Revatīnandana: What about like the case of Bhīṣmadeva where he knew about Kṛṣṇa in Goloka, and he went to Kṛṣṇa as Pārtha-sārathi.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... He understood Kṛṣṇa as Nārāyaṇa. He will go to Vaikuṇṭha, Bhīṣmadeva.
Prabhupāda: No, everything will be all right. Because the man on the head is perfectly, he'll manage, he'll manage. But if he's not perfect, then it is not possible. Therefore the endeavor should be made... Either call it dictator or president or king, it doesn't matter. The man on the top of the executive must be a perfect man.
Lord Brockway: Now, in taking your view that all men and women are the children of God, they've got God within them, then the advance of mankind must be by giving the opportunity of God in all men and women.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lord Brockway: To come to fulfillment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this is all due to lack of God consciousness. Therefore the only remedy is to make people God conscious, thoroughly, perfectly. Then everything will be all right.
Lord Brockway: That I don't accept. God consciousness plus understanding.
Prabhupāda: Now, God conscious means understanding. Without understanding, how there can be God consciousness?
Lord Brockway: And you, you may easily have a person who is very God conscious, beautiful in their own lives, beautiful to all the group around them, who have no understanding of the problems of the world at all.
Prabhupāda: That is not perfect God conscious. That is partial. Perfect consciousness means full understanding also. That is perfect God consciousness. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). This is the Vedic injunction. If you understand only God, then you understand everything. But if he does not understand everything rightly, that means he's not fully understanding God.
Cardinal Danielou: I think if there is a serious reason, it is not the destruction of the spiritual man itself. By example, it is perfectly possible to use of the reality of the material world, of the natural world to the valuable finality of human vocation. We think that the question is a question of motivation. It could exist bad reason to kill an animal. But if the killing of animal is to give food to children, men, women, we ont faim. Qui...?
Devotee: Hungry.
Cardinal Danielou: Hungry, we are hungry, it is legitimate, legitimate... We have... It is difficult to admit that in India, comment dit-on les vaches?
Yogeśvara: The cows.
Cardinal Danielou: Oui, the cows.
Prabhupāda: One thing is...
Prabhupāda: That is necessities of life. Because you have got this body, so you must supply the necessities of the body. That we supply. Not only that. We want to keep men in so peaceful condition that he's not disturbed by mental anxieties, bodily disease, natural disturbances and fighting or quarreling with other living entities. So when he's perfectly in peaceful condition of life, he can save time for advancement in spiritual consciousness.
Reporter: Sure, so...
Prabhupāda: But aim is that his life, everyone's life is meant for spiritual realization. So to, in order to achieve this end of life he must be kept in peaceful condition of life.
Yogeśvara: He asks: "In order to achieve these goals is it our intention to do like the Christians and make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?"
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as simply wasting time. That's all.
- dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ puṁsāṁ
- viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
- notpādayed ratiṁ yadi
- śrama eva hi kevalam
- (SB 1.2.8)
Śrama eva hi kevalam. Everyone is acting. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhithaḥ. According to Vedic civilization, there are four divisions of men. brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and further, spiritual divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So everyone has got some duty according to his position. So Bhāgavata says that even a person executes his duty very perfectly, but if he does not awaken his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all that he has done is simply a waste of time. So our point is that the UNESCO, United Nations, UNO, they're simply wasting their time. From practical point of view, they're unable to do anything. Because the original idea was to stop war. But the war is going on, fighting is going on. They could not stop it. And United Nations... But actually they are becoming disunited more and more.
Prabhupāda: So unless you have got your goal perfectly known, how you can make progress? (break)
Guru-gaurāṅga: ...their organization is the guru, and their whole organization knows the ultimate goal which they can attain.
Prabhupāda: And he is part of that organization. He does not know.
Guru-gaurāṅga: He says that evolution of man which is the goal of this order is something that is mystical. It is not scientific, that it is so easily...
Prabhupāda: That means it is pale. It is not distinct.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So Napoleon was. But before constructing that arch, he was finished in battle of Waterloo. So all the struggle he made to make France a great country and him to become a great leader was futile. It was not perfectly done. In one statue I saw, "France and Napoleon identical." But France is there; where is Napoleon? Therefore it is called illusion, māyā. Just like our Gandhi, in this country, he struggled so hard, got independence. But just after independence he was killed, finished. He could not enjoy. He simply struggled. You cannot say that he had no desire to enjoy. Then how he was sticking to that politics? And because he was sticking to that politics, he was killed. If he would have retired from politics, he would not have been killed. Therefore because he was sticking to that politics means he wanted to enjoy the fruit. But he could not. Therefore we do not know what is the perfection of life. Because we create so-called paraphernalia of perfection of life, but we are not allowed to enjoy it, therefore we must accept, "There is superior power. Without His sanction I may create very favorable situation, but I may not be allowed to enjoy it." Suppose you are bank manager. If the post is that "Yes, you will be appointed to day and tomorrow you will be kicked out." Will you accept it?
Prabhupāda: Therefore I have already explained. There must be a class of men like me. They are called brāhmaṇa. They should help others. One who cannot rise so early, they will help him by his knowledge. He, the man who cannot rise early in the morning and cannot take the brahminical principle, śūdra, kṣatriya, vaiśya, he should be helped with the knowledge acquired by the brāhmaṇa. Just like the same example. The leg. Leg is not brain. The brain will give direction to the leg, "You go this side." Then it is perfect. The leg has no brain, but the brain is there. If he takes the advice of the brain and goes... Just like... It is called the logic of blind and lame. There is a lame man and there is a blind man. The lame man cannot walk, and the blind man cannot see. They should join. The blind man took the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man giving direction, and the blind man is going nicely. So by the cooperation of the blind and the lame, the work is done perfectly. Andha-kañjatā-nyāya. Similarly, it is not required that everyone has to become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible. So if the brāhmaṇa and the śūdra combine together, work, then both their lives will be perfect.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot say that He is not a person, because He is inconceivable. You cannot say whether He is person or not person, because you are illusioned, and inconceivable... But why you are thinking that because you cannot say perfectly, everyone cannot say perfectly? You are thinking like that. Just like we have got experience: one body cannot say something, but the other can say. Practical experience. Just like this child cannot say something but the father can say.
Bali Mardana: It's their envious attitude. They are envious.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of envious. Because you are thinking that He is inconceivable, because you cannot say... But how can you say that another person cannot say? There are so many things I do not know. That does not mean that somebody else does not know. You may not know. Your experience is not mature. But how you can say, "Another person cannot have the experience"? So that is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedāhaṁ samatītāni, māṁ tu veda na kaścana: (BG 7.26) "I know everything, but nobody knows Me." There is the answer. So nobody knows Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. But Kṛṣṇa reveals Himself to the devotee. That is also said, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām (BG 10.10).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say, "At the time of evolution, the cells, the genes, sometimes..." Normally the gene is perfectly copied for the next generation, but sometimes there is a mistake in copying. Just like in the printing press sometimes we do some mistakes. Just like that, there are some mistakes along the path of evolution. So those mistakes, sometimes they just, according to the circumstances, they can stand, and they form a different living entity because of the difference of the genes.
Prabhupāda: But the mistake is continuing forever, because you'll find the varieties of living entities ever-existing. Therefore the mistake is permanent. So when it is permanent, it is not mistake. It is intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Why you should dictate God? God has created perfectly. He has given you independence. You fall down. It is your fault. God has made you perfect, given you independence. But if you misuse your independence, you fall down. Just like government gives everyone opportunity. Why do you become criminal and go to the jail? That is your fault.
Hṛdayānanda: They say that God should have created us so that we...
Prabhupāda: Why "Should have created"? He has created already perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the Vaikuṇṭha. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planets. You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. God has given you all perfection. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation), everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect. Again, reviving your independence, you can become perfect, although you are imperfect now.
Prabhupāda: Darkness means absence of light. That is darkness. It is the negation of light. Similarly, material life means forgetfulness of God. That's all... What is our spiritual life? We are simply trying to revive our understanding of God. That is spiritual life. And when you perfectly revive, that is spiritual. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...whatever you do, that is your defeat. Because you cannot see things in the proper perspective, therefore in darkness or in ignorance, whatever you do, that is your defeat. Therefore we see that so much advancement of education, civilization, but everything is defeat. Nobody's satisfied. Because it is defeat. It is not progress. It is defeat.
Prabhupāda: I am talking on that matter. So if the American nation trusts in God... If not... They say, they have declared. Now, the difficulty is they do not know actually what is God, how to trust. That we are teaching. So the government must come forward to cooperate with us. This should be... There should be an agitation. Now this "In God we trust," it is, it is something like vague idea. There is a need of... (aside:) You can make copy from there. If you bring one dozen like this, then it is difficult to walk. (about tape recorders) So our propaganda should be to the United, I mean to say, United States government and public. And you are theologicians. You should make program that simply saying that "In God we trust," and we do all nonsense, which exhibits that we do not trust in God, this thing should be stopped. You have placed in your Constitution, there is, you trust in God. Now you should understand what is God and how to trust. That we are teaching. This should be taken very seriously. Because you cannot change your Constitution. Already there is that. But you must know it perfectly well what is God and how to trust Him. That science we are teaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The government should cooperate fully. There should be school, college, to understand what is God, how to trust. This movement should be started. What do you think?
Prabhupāda: And that is happening practically. Now these boys, these girls, they are Europeans, Americans. They were accustomed to so many bad habits and according to our standard, and now they have given up. They have no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking or drinking tea. Yes. We don't allow our students... Not allow. They become accustomed. Once I say, "Don't do this," they agree. They agree immediately. Intoxication. There were many students, they were habituated to this nowadays intoxican... Immediately gave up. And your government is making so much propaganda to give up this intoxication. They are failure. So a little God consciousness helps so much. And what to speak of when one is perfectly God conscious? Then he's perfect man. Therefore a devotee is not of this material world. He's in the spiritual world. He's above this material world. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the friend of everyone. We don't take His help, that is the difficulty. He says, He's guaranteed, that "If you just surrender to Me, I'll give you all protection." Such a friend who can give, there. But they'll not do that. Actually if one trusts in God, then everything is there, perfectly.
Prajāpati: So if they did trust in God, they would not have all these problems today.
Prabhupāda: No. It is factual. Just like in modern... Immediate problem is the petrol. Nobody trusts in God. The Arabians, they're thinking that this oil, "Our oil." But actually, his father has not manufactured this oil. It is God's oil. None of them believe in God, either the Arabians or the others. Therefore there is crisis. It is practical. Is the petrol manufactured by man? So why a section of man is claiming, "It is my petrol"? If somebody says, "It is my Pacific Ocean," what is this nonsense? Because they are going on under this nonsense ideas, therefore there is problem.
Prabhupāda: When? Guru or... First of all, try to understand what is the meaning of guru. Guru means heavy. So one who knows more than you, or one who knows perfectly, that, he is guru. So if you know anything perfectly, then you are guru. But if you do not know anything perfectly, then you are not a guru. You are rascal. So guru means one who knows perfectly. So if you find out somebody, that he knows everything perfectly, then he is guru. That is the first prayer of Gurvaṣṭaka. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. Everyone is in the blazing fire of this material existence. It is just like forest fire. Just like if there is fire in the forest, all the inhabitants of forest, all the animals, they become so much in perturbed condition. So guru means to rescue from this forest fire. So therefore it is said, ghanāghanatvam. A forest fire can be reduced or can be extinguished... Fire, there must be water. But wherefrom the water will come? Your fire brigade, bucket full of water, will not save. The water must come from cloud.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The main point is that "In God we trust," on this slogan... So the same point that, "What do you mean by God and what do you mean by trust? That you do not know." So you have to explain what is God and what is trust, thoroughly, from our books. Our point of propaganda should be that "It is very good that you write this slogan, 'In God we trust,' but nobody has got clear conception of God; neither they do not know what is the meaning of trust. Under the circumstances, so you have to learn it scientifically. And our propaganda is like that, to teach actually what is God and what is trust. And you important men of the state, you come forward, try to understand, and open schools, colleges. Make it perfectly known what is God. And make America strong. As the Communist party, they are preaching godlessness, now America should preach, 'No, in God we trust.' Now there should be a fight, not on the political point of view, but actually it includes everything.
Prabhupāda: So he was asking. Very intelligent boy, he was asking, "What is this? What is...?" So I also explained, "This man is going to marry." So in this way, after, "Father, you were married?" He asked me. So this nonsense question is there. He does not know, "Without marriage, how I am come into existence?" So these questions are like that, childish questions. It has no meaning. (break) ...the Vedic injunctions is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must approach guru. Guru means heavy, who knows perfectly. You must go there to learn. And actually it is happening. Why the children are sent to school? When he becomes educated, the same eyes, same hands, same legs, same body, but he becomes educated. What is the different between educated and not educated? Because he has heard from authorities. That's all. This is education. Without going to school, he is not considered to be educated. Why? Because he did not hear from the authorities. Therefore he is uneducated. Let him learn everything. He has got the eyes. He has got the senses. Why he is sent to school? Why? Tell me, why? He has got the eyes. Why he is sent to school for education?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah. They're Vaiṣṇava. But because they have got to live in the material world, there must be division of work. If everyone wants to become the brain, who will act as leg? That is also required. If everyone says, "No, no, I'm not going to do the work of leg. I want simply to work as..." No. It is needed. The brain is needed, the hand is needed, the belly is needed, the leg is needed. So that we have to divide. Who will work as brain, who will work as hand, who will work as leg... The main aim is how to maintain this body perfectly, fit. That should be the aim, how the society will go on nicely. And for management, this hand, leg, brain, belly must be divided. Just like there's slight difference, those who are directly engaged in temple worship and those who are going to sell books. Apparently there's difference, but basically there is no difference. Like that. If one can sell books nicely, why he should be, I mean to say, engaged in the temple worship? He can do better work in that way. But there is no difference between selling the books and temple worship. Or washing the dish. There's no difference, because it is all transcendental. Just like aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. Kṛṣṇa's hands and legs, there's no difference. You've read this verse?
Prabhupāda: First of all varṇa. And āśrama, then, when the varṇa is perfectly in order, then āśrama. Āśrama is specially meant for spiritual advancement, and varṇa is general division. It must be there in the human society, or they're on the animals. If varṇa is not there, then this is a society of animal. And when the varṇa is working perfectly, then we give them āśrama. Varṇāśrama. That is later on.
Hṛdayānanda: First they should be taught a skill.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, the whole society must be divided into four varṇas. Otherwise, there will be chaotic condition. That is what is the position now. What is he, what he has to do, one does not know. And there are so many unemployment. But if you organize the society into varṇas, there will be no question of unemployment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Droṇācārya. He was brāhmaṇa, but he was teaching military art to the Pāṇḍavas. General teacher class will be the brāhmaṇas. It doesn't matter what he's teaching. But teaching, perfectly teaching, how to become a military man. Arjuna's fighting was due to Droṇācārya. He learned it from Droṇācārya. He was a brāhmaṇa. But because he took the position of a teacher, he thought very perfectly. A brāhmaṇa should be expert in every kind of knowledge. If requires, he'll become teacher. This is brāhmaṇa.
Hṛdayānanda: So brāhmaṇa can teach how to fight?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Brāhmaṇa means intelligent, brain. So in intelligent brain one can learn anything and teach anything.
Prabhupāda: That's not the question. It's a question of philosophy. Here we just say, we know, just like we, we are devotee of Lord Buddha, keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We glorify Lord Buddha because we know what is Buddha, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. So we know perfectly that he is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, but those who are cheated by Buddha, from their point of view I want to know what is their perspective.
Guest: Now how, how, how, why would Buddha want to cheat people?
Prabhupāda: Yes, cheated because they did not believe in God. So, but he is God, he is God; therefore he says, "What I say, you believe." That means he is cheating them.
Guest: He didn't say that.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perfect means as you have heard from your spiritual master. (indistinct) We are not perfect, none of us, but if you perfectly follow the orders of the perfect, then you are perfect. You should not think that "I have become perfect." Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said, guru more mūrkha dekhi (CC Adi 7.71). He presented Himself as fool number one. So we should always keep ourself as fool number one, that "I am not perfect. I am fool number one." But whatever I am doing I am carrying the orders of the perfect. That is my credit. I am not perfect. Suppose I give you, (indistinct), five thousand dollars. That is not my money. I am not rich man. But the money is paid by somebody else and I deliver, that's all. That is my perfection. If I don't touch it, I do not take from five hundred dollars a paise even, and I deliver it, that is my perfection. I may not be rich man, but if I deliver this amount to you, in perfect order, that is my perfection.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are pūrṇasya, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idam (Iso Invocation). Everything created by Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. He does not create anything useless. Just like this sea water is salty. Why it is salty? If it is not salty, then it cannot be preserved. Therefore it is salty. You have to take water. But it is made salty. The process is... It is distilled by the sun, and then you are supplied. Just see how perfectly it is done. It is put onto the top of the hills, and it comes as river. This is God's creation.
Bhāgavata: Complete.
Prabhupāda: Complete, yes. Complete... Complete intelligence.
Prabhupāda: But you don't hear me, that is the difference.
Indian man (3): I'm hearing you perfectly well, but I'm very quick to grasp it, that is the misfortune of me.
Prabhupāda: You are quick to deviate, that is the point. You do not hear.
Indian man (3): How can you... (laughs) How can you say I'm in...
Prabhupāda: That is the... That is your alpa-medhasaḥ. You cannot understand. What I'm speaking you do not understand.
Indian man (3): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: He... That example I'm giving, that the law is that the murderer should be hanged. If you fight, "I don't care for this law, because you are hanging one person," that will be contempt of court. You may not like, but the law is there. You cannot condemn the law. That is my point. That is my point.
Indian man (3): Perfectly right, but what I say what he has... Finer points.
Prabhupāda: Now you say there are seven branches, and they're preaching in a different way. So how people will understand...?
Indian man (3): Because then those people were reading all so many śāstras he narrowed to five. He wanted the Veda you must read, Vyāsa-sūtra... (break)
Prabhupāda: Beginning should be Bhagavad-gītā. (break) Pañcopāsanam. Pañcopāsanam is not for the Vaiṣṇava.
Indian man (4): Not pañcopāsa, Pañcarātra.
Prabhupāda: No, no, Pañc... Pañcarātra is all right. He has recommended the...
Indian man (4): Gaṇapati (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So when one has come to this knowledge perfectly, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi," that is brahma-bhūta stage. So, so after brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, there are so many other things. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54).
Dr. Patel: Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.
Prabhupāda: These bhūteṣu.
Mr. Sar: Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām.
Prabhupāda: Then he comes to the bhakti-yoga. Not that only daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, not dhani-nārāyaṇa-sevā.
Dr. Patel: You came out with that.
Prabhupāda: No, no that is, that is the deficiency. If daridra is Nārāyaṇa, why not the dhani?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the actually essence of Bhagavad-gītā. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo and mattaḥ sarvam. Sarvam means including Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. Sarvam. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā. One who understands this. Bhajante. So just... The bhajana is for whom? Iti matvā. When one understands that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, even the original demigods, Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara, when one understands perfectly this thing, then his bhajana is perfect.
Dr. Patel: Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ.
Prabhupāda: Bhāva, bhāva. Bhāva means love, feelings, feelings of love, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so great."
Dr. Patel: Mac-cittā mad-gata-prāṇāḥ.
Prabhupāda: And that is being described.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they cannot. Why they cannot? Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamiśram (SB 7.5.30). This gṛha-vrata means their sense enjoyment. This gṛhastha life is a concession for sense gratification, license. Actually, it is not required. Sex life is not required. But those who cannot avoid the sex life, they are given some license, "All right, you enjoy sex life, marry one woman, remain as faithful husband and wife." So unless one determines that "This is not my life, gṛha-vrata..." Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). In another place it is said also, by Sukadeva Gosvāmī, one who cannot understand what is his self-interest, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam, actually what is needed, what is the need of the soul, gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām... The gṛha-vrata and gṛhamedhi, these two words are for persons who are too much attached to this worldly life. So this determination already is there, that "Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything." Iti matvā bhajante mām. One who understands this perfectly well, he can be engaged in the matter of rendering service to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is very difficult. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato va.
Prabhupāda: ...another example. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. It is said that this living entity is untouched by this material body. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. So the example is given that the moon reflected on water appears to be moving, but moon is separate from that movement. (Hindi) Go on. (Hindi) (break) ...good example. Unnecessarily he thinks that "I belong to this country, I belong to this society." That means he creates another body. And if he knows perfectly well that "I do not belong to any of these bodies," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That teaching required, that every being is unattached to this body. Therefore yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape... Anyone who is maintaining himself under bodily concept of life, he is no better than the animals. (break) The demonic person does not accept any good lesson. Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. Because he is foolish, if you give him good advice, he will be angry. Still, we have to do that.
Prabhupāda: He is a rascal. He is not fit to be seen by the great personality. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). You cannot see the sun-god. Does it mean there is no sun-god? What is the value of your eyes? It is imperfect. You are seeing the sun just like a disc, but it is fourteen hundred thousands of times bigger than this earth. Can you see it? Then what is the power of your seeing? Whatever you are seeing, that is defective. So don't be proud of seeing. What is your eyes? What is the value of your eyes? You cannot see even the eyelid. Can you see the eyelid? Although it is attached to your eyeball. So what is the power? Why you are so much proud of seeing? First of all, understand that "I am so defective, I cannot see perfectly, properly." And you want to see God with these defective eyes?
Prabhupāda: So at the present moment, the godless civilization... Therefore the leaders, they do not know how to lead people so that they may become happy. It is the duty of the leader, government, father, teacher, gurus, to see that the subordinates are very, very happy. We find in the history of Mahābhārata that during the time of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira people were not suffering even from excessive heat or cold or any anxiety. So it is the duty of the leaders of the people and the government to see that the citizens are perfectly happy in their occupational duties and they are advancing in spiritual knowledge, because human life is not to live a polished animal life. That is not human life.
Indian man (1): If we learn English perfectly, the local priests will (indistinct) those others don't speak English anymore.
Prabhupāda: No, local language is required.
Indian man (1): Suppose if we learn English, then we can preach in our local language.
Prabhupāda: Yes, local language is required. No, Hindi also, you should learn, but... We can have publication in Hindi also. But when we speak of international organization, English must be there.
Richard Webster: Well, may I ask a question? I find in medieval European philosophy two different attitudes and..., which I find difficult to reconcile perfectly. That is to say the earlier Christians, up to the thirteenth Century, I suppose, were practically only thinking about God, nothing else but God so that nature or the human being, or any... everything else, tended to disappear altogether as also in some Indian philosophy, I think. And then, later on, with more modern science and so on you've got a different attitude in the Christians themselves, that is to say an attitude of acceptance towards subordinate things so that they became independent and finally, of course, broke away altogether so that nowadays we have science without God at all. But there was a sort of period in the late middle ages when St. Thomas Aquinas, who stopped thinking about God, only about God, and gave his attention to science, so they say. Well, there was a sort of conflict there. I don't quite know what to say about it whether I'm on one side or the other. That is to say if I were to (indistinct) the earlier Christian or (indistinct) There was Aquinas, for instance, who was a saint, but he would pray into the world, if you like. I wondered whether you would disapprove of that or...
Prabhupāda: Yes, these different types of philosophers are always there, not only in the medieval age, in the previously also. It is said, na cāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. "A philosopher is not a philosopher if he does not present a different view." (laughter) This is stated in the Bhāgavata. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnaḥ (?). Tarka, by argument, logic, you cannot come to the right conclusion because you may be a good logician and then you meet another logician who is better than you. So his arguments may be stronger than your argument. Therefore, simply by arguments or logical premises, you cannot approach the Absolute Truth.
Cardinal Pignedoli: This is more important because you have not so many. If you go to South Africa, and although... I mean because also we. We have not so many. It's a question of possibility, of chances. Why don't you choose...? This is my question. These areas where Japan for instance is an area very atheistic and where yesterday I had this sect with me of the not perfectly... It's called... No. It's a different one. Mr. Kalyana is the president. He came yesterday. He came yesterday. Mr. Kalyana. Well, they don't believe, as you say. This is philosophy. Welfare, is happiness, but not in your meaning, in my meaning. Well, this is only to ask, then you go to Japan?
Dhanañjaya: Yes, we have a center in Tokyo.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got center in Japan, in Hong Kong.
Prabhupāda: Then do it. Do it. Set example perfectly. This is nice park. Yes. You can have your park locally. Where is the difficulty? Garden. Fruits, flowers, garden. There is park. Also you can have a pond like this. People are doing that locally. In Bengal especially. Whole Bengal was a garden. It was so nice. Whole Bengal was a garden.
Dhanañjaya: I noticed this when I took the train from Calcutta to Krishnanagar. Once you get further out, it's so nice, the villages. There is the pond there.
Prabhupāda: And... Why Calcutta? You go to the airport. You will find so nice gardens, still existing. Now it is spoiled also. Because people have changed locally to the city. Nobody has to take care now. Otherwise, in Bengal especially, throughout the whole India, Bengal was so beautiful. The Europeans became attracted by the beauty of Bengal. Therefore they made Calcutta their capital, the Britishers. Yes. Every European liked Bengal. Every European. I met one European German gentleman in Bombay. He was in Calcutta. When I was in Bimha (?). So I asked, "Why you left Calcutta?" "Oh, I am very sorry. Calcutta was so nice." And actually. Where we have got our temple, these quarters were known as "Sahib" quarter. Just like our temple is "Sahib" temple.
Prabhupāda: You have studied Bhagavad-gītā?
Dr. Sallaz: Some. Some of the members know it perfectly. I do not.
Prabhupāda: So you read that. Energy, two energies, how they are explained. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ.
Dr. Sallaz: You see some of members are... (French)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is in the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, text numbers four and five.
Dr. Sallaz: And, Your Holiness, you know, some of our members know this perfectly, Bhagavad-gītā and all the holy scriptures, ancient holy scriptures, and all the others too, and have studied them for years, trying to look for truth. I am not in this stage and I'm...
Prabhupāda: But truth is there, explained. Truth is there, Kṛṣṇa. From Him, the energies are coming. He is the Absolute Truth. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth, satyam. Then Bhāgavata explains, paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. So the Supreme Truth is there within our understanding. But people do not know it. Therefore spiritual revolution means the people should understand what is the Supreme Truth, and then mold their character and activities according to that relationship. Then that is success of human life.
Prabhupāda: Then what is that truth? Let us know.
Dr. Sallaz: I am sure that some of them knows perfectly well all the Bhagavad-gītā. (French)
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yogeśvara: He says that you don't really need proof to convince anyone. Why should he have to show proof that you know...
Prabhupāda: No, if you are searching after truth... Suppose if you are searching after gold. And if I give you gold, why don't you accept it? (French)
Yogeśvara: Apparently his position is that by their research, they have discovered the truth.
Prabhupāda: What is that truth? (French)
Guru-gaurāṅga:
- ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
- mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
- iti matvā bhajante māṁ
- budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
- (BG 10.8)
"I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts."
Prof. Regamay: Yes, I know what it is in the Bhagavad-gītā but, for instance, in the words of Rāmānuja, it is not Kṛṣṇa, but it is Viṣṇu which is the highest form. So this one question, what I had to put that... And also... May I sit down on...? I would be much more...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Give him another pad.
Prabhupāda: ...activities. Otherwise how can you become Kṛṣṇa conscious? In our society we are doing so many things. We are sending our men. We are publishing books. We are distributing... Because: how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the only idea. Central idea is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So there is activity, always. From morning, four o'clock, until night, ten o'clock, we have got full program of activities. And all these activities are meant for how to become perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts."
Prabhupāda: That's it. He is the source of everything. So-called material, so-called spiritual—everything coming from Him. Therefore everything transformed... Or not transformed. Everything is transforming. That's all right. Therefore everything belongs to Him. So everything should be employed for His satisfaction. That is perfection. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births, when one becomes actually scientist, he understands, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything." Find out.
Pradyumna:
- ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
- mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
- iti matvā bhajante māṁ
- budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
- (BG 10.8)
"I am the source of all the spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise, who know this perfectly, engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts."
Prabhupāda: Just see. This experience.
Priest: Yeah, but who has written the Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: God.
Jyotirmayī: So he says that he thinks the same about us, that we are also not understanding perfectly Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Then let him understand from us.
Yogeśvara: No, he says he thinks that we don't understand.
Bhagavān: (Simultaneously with Yogeśvara) He thinks that we don't understand.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yogeśvara: He says that he thinks that we have imperfectly understood.
Prabhupāda: So let us discuss who understands, you or me. So who will decide? You are understanding or I am understanding—who'll decide? Who will decide it?
Karandhara: Yes, they do. They have a similar understanding of karma so far as the material self is concerned, and that the soul or the self takes on different forms until it becomes perfectly selfless. And then it merges back into the nondescript, the cosmic force. So I don't know if this young man's versed in Zen philosophy...
Prabhupāda: That is our definition, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Śūnyam means, you have to give up all material desires. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). But the desire should be synchronized. Ānukulyena kṛṣṇānu..., you have to desire to satisfy Kṛṣṇa.
Karandhara: Well, they come to the point of trying to give up all material desires. But at that point they say there's nothing, there's no self...
Prabhupāda: That is their ignorance, or they do not understand, or they do not try to explain because the followers will not understand. That is our also point, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167), to become desireless. But after becoming desireless, what is it? Just like you become painless from the disease. That means painless means everything finished? Then let me enjoy this pain. After being painless means everything is finished. No. Painless means no material pain but spiritual life. That is painless.
Prabhupāda: Yes. For whom? Who is actually searching after success? Not for the fool. Anyone who is trying for attaining success, for him, failure is also success because he's making progress. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). God says, "Many ways." That's all right. But why does He says that "If you want to know Me perfectly, and without any doubt, then this is the process, bhakti"? Other processes are there but by those processes you cannot understand. Just like practically, call anyone, so-called yogis, so-called jñānīs, they'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. They'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. So all other paths that are recommended, by those paths you cannot understand God perfectly and without any doubt. Therefore God says clearly, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: (BG 18.55) "Actually, what I am, that can be understood by bhakti-yoga." Other systems, you'll... I explained that last night. That is partial understanding. That is not full understanding.
Paramahaṁsa: It's also said that if you follow perfectly the rules and regulations, but don't develop love for Kṛṣṇa, then you have wasted your time.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but if you follow the rules and regulations, automatically, you'll love Kṛṣṇa. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. These are the stepping-stones. The devotional service develops by association. So if the associates are pure devotees, anyone who will come to that association will become devotee. (break) ...just like a young man and young woman. The devotion is there, love is there, but in the beginning, they should mix, or some presentation should be given, some, something eatable should be accepted, should be given. In this way, when the association is thick and thin, the love is there. The love is already there. It has to awakened by a certain process. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati ca ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. These are six types of loving principles, that you give, if you want to love somebody, you give something. And whatever he or she offers, you take from him. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti.
Prabhupāda: Very good reputation that you have become perfectly Vaiṣṇava.
Devotee: No, he means the western people themselves.
Prabhupāda: "They must be cynic, crazy, another edition of hippies." Like that, they say like that.
Devotee: They think that... They won't allow even a westerner to marry their daughter, because the westerners have a reputation of marrying for a week and then flying away. So they think like that of the people. Even our own men, sometimes the Indian girls wanted to marry the brahmacārīs, the American brahmacārīs, but the parents would not allow because they said, "After you are married a week, he will just run away back to his country and leave you here." So they are thinking like that about the westerners, that they, the life is so fast.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Vedic instruction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to get first-class experience of the perfection of life, you must approach guru. That is the Vedic injunction. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Now, who is guru? Whom shall I approach? So the next line explains that approach such guru, śrotriyam, who has heard from his guru perfectly, that guru. Who had no chance of hearing from perfect guru, he is not guru. This is called guru-paramparā, disciplic succession. I hear from a perfect person, and I distribute the knowledge the same way, without any change. So Kṛṣṇa gives us knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are distributing the same knowledge. It is not by our... (aside:) Water is not required. Water I don't want. There is water. So I am always inexperienced because my power of understanding is very little. Therefore I must get experience from a person who is perfect. Then my experience is perfect. Just like a child does not know what is this. he asks his father, "What is this, father?" Father says, "My dear child, it is microphone."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the bhakti-mārga, means, the first thing is śravaṇam, hearing. Just like these books are being written to give chance people to hear. That is first business. If we don't hear about God we simply imagine something. No. We must hear about God. We are publishing eighty books like this, simply to hear about God. Then when you hear perfectly then you can describe to others. That is called kīrtanam. Śravaṇam, kīrtanam. And when the process goes on hearing and chanting or describing, kīrtanam means describing. Just like our, this whole society is hearing from these books and they're going out to describe. This is called kīrtana. Then by these two process, hearing and chanting, you remember, smaraṇam. That means remembering, you always associate with God.
| Page Title: | Perfectly (Conv. 1968 - 1974) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 06 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=99, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 99 |