Prabhupāda: You have seen all our books? These are our books.
Professor: I have seen them. I had a (indistinct) somewhere with...
Prabhupāda: We have got our small and big book. Fifty books we have got. All about Kṛṣṇa.
Professor: I understand that music plays an important role also in the preparation of your people, or not?
Hṛdayānanda: (explaining) If music is important to us?
Prabhupāda: No, first of all, our basic principle is pleasure. So whatever gives pleasure, we accept. That is natural. But in the material world, they take material pleasure, but we are for spiritual pleasure. So as soon as we speak of pleasure, there must be varieties. Without... "Variety is the mother of enjoyment." So the only thing is that the material pleasure, that is temporary. It is finished after certain period. And spiritual means eternal. So our endeavor is to transfer ourself from this material pleasure to the spiritual pleasure. But the pleasure is the aim, either in this material world or in the spiritual world. This is... Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the Vedic... Our position is ānandamaya, to remain in pleasure. But here in this material world, the body is temporary, and everything is temporary. Therefore pleasure is temporary.
Professor: You could also, I think, kind of a yoga system for...
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is bhakti-yoga. Yes, bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yogena manasi. Bhakti-yogena manasi (SB 1.7.4). There is a verse in Bhāgavata. Real yoga means bhakti-yoga.
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntarātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
Of all the yogīs... There are different kinds of yogīs. We receive this authorized version, that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. Of all the yogīs, the first-class yogī is he who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa always within the heart. Mad-gata antarātmanā, antarātmanā śraddhāvān bhajate. That is our process. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so we're thinking of Kṛṣṇa. This is the first-class yoga system. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). In the Vedic... Yes. Dhyāna, meditation, means thinking of the Supreme. And that is real yoga, not this gymnastic.
Professor: Not that. (laughs) We were not thinking of the gymnastics.
Prabhupāda: That is physical.
- dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena
- manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino
- yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsara-
- gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ
- (SB 12.13.1)
(prasādam being served) (break) ...learned scholars, professors. Try to understand this movement, and let us cooperate. It is very important, scientific movement. It is not a mental concoction. Based on Vedic principle.
Hṛdayānanda: (serving prasādam) This is called halavā. It's very nice.
Guest (1): The question is, well, Vedic idea that knowledge, human knowledge, is imperfect, does that not then go along... Of course, we are limited by..., all time by biological limitation and so on. But this statement, that there is perfect knowledge, that it can be acquired, and that there are some people who did acquire it, that's very strong statement indeed. And my question is of the practical nature. How one can know that given source of a supposed spiritual truth is an actual truth? Is there any technique how one can get to it, apart from...
Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that you take the vibration from the Vedic knowledge and you experiment it. Observation and experiment, that is scientific. So first of all observation and then experiment. And when you are satisfied by experiment, then it is perfect knowledge.
Guest (1): If I am satisfied? Can I rely that much on myself?
Prabhupāda: Anyone can do, provided he knows the art how to do it. It is a technique also. You cannot make experiment as a crude man. You must be expert.
Professor: Because I (indistinct)... maybe one of the (indistinct)... so one of the presentations of words that add more...
Prabhupāda: But it is... In our Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find it, there is a statement, caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra: "Just try to make an experiment on the mercy of Lord Caitanya." Vicāra karile citte pabe camatkāra: "When you make an experiment, then you'll be awe-full, 'Oh, it is so nice.' " It is not to be accepted blindly.
Professor: When you... If one can one perceive by their own senses, what is that...?
Prabhupāda: No, you have to see through the eyes of the śāstra. But God has given you the instrument by which you can make an experiment. Yes. The same thing, as it is stated... (aside:) Find out that verse from Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). (break) This is the statement. Now you make experiment. You have got physical laboratory. (laughter)
Professor: You can make an experiment of the (indistinct).
Guest (1): It would be rather difficult, I'm afraid.
Prabhupāda: That you must know the, how it can be experiment. It is given. The example is given that... What is that? "As the child is passing"?
Hṛdayānanda: "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death."
Prabhupāda: That's it. Now, this is a fact. Everyone knows that body is changing. Now, how the last body's changed? That you make experiment, how it is passing. Yes. To make experiment means you have to know the science how to make experiment.
Professor: Was an experiment of (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That is knowledge. You take the basic principle of knowledge, and then you make your experiment, and you'll know this is perfect.
Guest (1): Is there any direct line of division between that which you would call knowledge and that what is religion?
Prabhupāda: Religion, as it is passing on at the present moment, "a kind of faith," this is not religion. This is not religion. According to... Religion means dharma, the characteristic. Just like you are eating something salty, something sweet. So the sugar, the characteristic, it is sweet. That is religion. And the salt is salty. The chili is pungent. So these characteristic is religion. So you'll have to find out religion, what is your real characteristic. That is religion. Now, religion is going, "I believe in this way." That is another thing—sentiment. Religion without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion, mental speculation. Those two things must be combined: philosophy and sentiment. Then it is religion. (end)