Mānadena. We should be always ready to offer respect to all, not only devotees, but everyone. Everyone. Because every living entity is originally a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But circumstantially, being covered by the coat of māyā, he's playing like demon. But his original nature is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇera dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Everyone is eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. But being influenced by māyā, when he gets this body, given by māyā... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), when he's conducted by the three guṇas of māyā, he thinks himself otherwise. He thinks himself independent of Kṛṣṇa. But actually, nobody is independent of Kṛṣṇa. I've given this example that the prisoners, the criminals in the jail, they go to jail thinking themselves to be independent of the state laws, outlaws. A criminal thinks, "I don't care for the state laws." But after all, for his activities, criminal activities, he's put into the jail. So at that time he's forced to obey the state laws. Outside the state laws, he's disobeyed. But within the prison, he's forced by punishment. Similarly, those who are defying the authorities of the Supreme Lord, they are all criminals, and they are being punished by Durgā-devī. Chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44).
Originally (Lectures, Other)
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Just like sometimes we breathe and there are some germs, small, we cannot see; in the same way, the universes in a small minute form, they are coming out of the breathing of Mahā-Viṣṇu. That is Kāraṇa-toya-śāyī, kāraṇa-udaka, Causal Ocean. That is beginning of creation. Then all the universes, they gradually develop into gigantic form. In the originally, it is coming out. We cannot understand. Sometimes we become surprised that "How such innumerable universes are being created by a person?" So, the universe is not so big in the beginning. Just like our, this body is not so big in the beginning of our body within the womb of our mother. It is not so big. It is very small, minute, and then it becomes just like a pea, and gradually the body develops. The same process is applicable to the universes. In the beginning, they are coming out of the breathing of Kāraṇa-toya-śāyī Viṣṇu, and then gradually they are developed bṛhannatvāt, bṛhatvāt. It increases gradually. That Kāraṇa-toya-śāyī Viṣṇu is also Saṅkarṣaṇa. And then Garbhodakaśāyī. The universes are created.
So the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava especially... Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava means the followers of... (break) ...Mahāprabhu. There are four Vaiṣṇava sampradāya originally: from Lord Brahmā, Brahmā-sampradāya; and from Lord Śiva, Rudra-sampradāya; and from goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī, Śrī-sampradāya; and from the catuḥ-sana, four kinds of sanas, Sanat Kumāra, Sananda, like that. So the four sampradāya is coming from time immemorial. So we belong to the Brahmā sampradāya, the Gauḍīya-sampradāya. Sampradāya means just like there are political parties, but their aim is to develop the country, nation's interest, although... Just like in your country there are political parties, Democratic parties.
So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are preaching that God is one and to think of God is also one and to become obedient servant of God, that is also one. Not that you have to become a different servant, I have to become different ser... Everyone is servant originally. So we accept to serve God. Then our religion is there; our fulfillment of desires are there. Therefore the author said, mat-sarvasva-padāmbhojau: "That is my everything. To take shelter of Rādhā-Madana-mohana, that is my everything. I have no other desire." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Just like a man in love in this material world, also, he sometimes becomes just like madman, so similarly... Material manifestation is simply perverted reflection of the real love. Here there is no love. It is simply a reflection. Because the spirit soul is originally in love with the Supreme, so he is trying to express his loving sentiments or life's symptoms, but because it is not on the platform of the Supreme, therefore materially they are manifested sometimes, but it breaks. It breaks. It does not exist. So similarly, as in the ordinary love affairs there are so many emotions, similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says this is the nature of love, nature of love. Premāra sva-bhāve kare citta-tanu kṣobha. Kṣobha means there is some agitation, within the mind, of the body. There are so many symptoms. Kṛṣṇera caraṇa-prāptye upajāya lobha: "And the more you increase the symptoms and this emotion, the more you will be anxious to be a sincere lover of God, or Kṛṣṇa."
Caitanya Mahāprabhu is therefore quoting from different Vedic literatures to prove that the Absolute Truth is person, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa, full with six opulences. As in the Parāśara-sūtra there is aiśvaryasya samāgrasya. When Kṛṣṇa was present He exhibited full strength of six kinds of opulences. So the... Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the fact. That is the Vedic version. It is not that some of the Kṛṣṇa's devotees have taken Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, or He is originally imperson and He takes a form, accepting a material body. These are not right conclusions. In the Kūrma Purāṇa it is said that there is no distinction between the body of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and soul. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they distinguish that "Kṛṣṇa's soul is different from His body." That is Māyāvāda philosophy. But that is not the fact. There is no such difference.
He has divided the whole energy of Kṛṣṇa into three: cit-śakti, jīva-śakti, and māyā-śakti. So the evidence is quoted from śāstra, Viṣṇu-Purāṇa, that viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā. Originally the Kṛṣṇa's energy is cit-śakti. Cit-śakti means spiritual energy, originally. Everything... Just like the sun and the sunshine. The sunshine originally shining, but when it is covered by cloud it is not shining. Within the cloud the real sunshine is there. So this material energy means it is covered by ignorance. This is the difference between spiritual energy and material energy. There is no two energies. Energy is one: viṣṇu-śakti parā proktā. That is parā, spiritual energy. Kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. Kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. Kṣetrajña means jīva-śakti, one who knows kṣetra and kṣetrajña. This subject matter is there in the Thirteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam. So when Arjuna inquired, kṣetra-jñam, Kṛṣṇa replied, idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetram abhidhīyate: "This body is kṣetra, and one who knows this body..." Just like I say, "It is my body," so I am kṣetrajña.
Originally the God's potency, Kṛṣṇa's potency—cit-śakti, sat-cit-ānanda. God is sat, eternal; cit, full of knowledge; and ānandamaya. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). You'll never see Kṛṣṇa nirānandamaya. Even if He is killing a demon, He is smiling. That is also ānanda. So the potencies of God, Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu-viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā—they are not these ordinary potencies, material potency. Spiritual potency. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā kṣetrajñaḥ (CC Madhya 6.154). Ksetrajña means jīva. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñaḥ. The living soul is kṣetrajña, and this body is kṣetra. Kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam, yad jñānaṁ tad jñānaṁ mataṁ mama. If anyone understands what is this kṣetra and kṣetrajña and what is their relationship—kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam—that is jñāna, not this material jñāna. That is spiritual jñāna. So kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. As God's potency is parā... Parā and aparā. Originally everything is parā. And aparā means forgetfulness. This material world we forget Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is called aparā. But there is another parā. That is spiritual potency. There there is no forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then immediately you become parā. Kṣetrajñam ākhyā tathā parā. Immediately you become parā. Otherwise you remain in the aparā, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), this material contamination. Kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā.
In the rāsa dance, Kṛṣṇa performed the rāsa dance, not exactly the ball dance... But it is an imitation of that rāsa dance. Because you cannot have any idea of anything without its being originally in Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). That is the version of Vedānta-sūtra. Any idea, whatever you... But they are simply perverted reflection. That's all. You cannot get anything, any idea, without its being situated in Kṛṣṇa. The rāsa dance, that is described in the Thirty-second Chapter of the Tenth Canto in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Five chapters, from Twenty-ninth Chapter to Thirty-fourth Chapter, Kṛṣṇa's rāsa dance is described there. The rāsa dance... The short history of rāsa dance is that Kṛṣṇa was sixteen years old, and the girls of the village, Vṛndāvana, and the boys, they were all friends. Naturally in India the girls were early married, some at the age of twelve years, some at the age of thirteen years, some at the age of ten years. The boys remain... So the girls who were friends of Kṛṣṇa, they always prayed to different demigods, Lord Śiva, that "Kṛṣṇa may be our husband." So that desire was there, but it was not possible to get Kṛṣṇa to become everyone's..., because He was only a boy. But they maintained that idea although they were married and some of them were mothers. Some of them were unmarried.
Just like His expansions in the spiritual world... He is originally two-handed, but in the spiritual planets... There are innumerable spiritual planets, and He is situated in each of them in four hand. Now this four hand, each hand... There are four symbols: conchshell and wheel and club and a lotus flower. Now, these four symbols are differently manifested in. Just like four hands. Beginning from right, this is lotus flower, club, and then conchshell, then wheel. And some of them, here begins wheel, here begins club. In this way the four has about sixteen divisions, and they are represented... Not sixteen. Twenty-four. Twenty-four, I mean to say, change of the place of the symbols. And according to the change of symbols, you will find different names. In the cover of the book Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you have seen. These symbols are there. And there are different names. Some of Them named Hṛṣīkeśa, some of Them named Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Padmanābha... In this way there are different names according to the different change of the symbolic representation.
So there are two different kinds of Vedic literature. One section is called śruti, originally coming. Just like this Caitanya-caritāmṛta. This is a book written by Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, a great devotee of Lord Caitanya. It is called smṛti. Why? Everything written here is corroborating the Vedic literature. There is nothing, suggestion, "I am a philosopher. I am a speculator. I think this will be like this" Here you'll see in every step he is quoting from Vedas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is quoting. This is the topics between Sanātana Gosvāmī... This is the Vedic way. Now that sage, a great sage, he is giving his conclusion that śrutir mātā pṛṣṭā diśati bhavad-ārādhana-vidhim: "I have inquired so many Vedic literature. Now I am in conclusion that worshiping the Supreme Lord, that is the injunction of the..., nothing more. Nothing more." The whole idea is... And that is confirmed by Bhagavad-gītā also. Kṛṣṇa says in the Fifteenth Chapter you will find. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). What is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If you can understand to some extent Kṛṣṇa, then your all Vedic studies finished. No more taking trouble. So we have to follow.
So originally, as Lord Caitanya has explained in the very beginning, you may remember, that the constitutional position of the living entity is to serve. This point we have explained several times. So we cannot change that position. If you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, then you have to serve māyā. That position is there. So here in this material world we are rendering service to these—kāma, krodha, lobha. We are servant of lust, we are servant of anger, we are servant of avarice, we are servant of so many things. So kāmādīnāṁ katidhā na katidhā. And servant, when one becomes servant, he has to execute anything which the masters order. Suppose one is serving some big man, he says that "You do this. I want." Now, to satisfy him one has to act according to his desire, which he may not like. Suppose one says that "You go and tell this lie. It is required by me." Now, because I am in service... Even great personalities like Bhīṣma, such a great personality, he could not join with the Pāṇḍava's party because he became a servant of the Kurus. So servitude is such a thing. A servant means a dog's qualification. In the Bhāgavata it is stated that... Because the higher caste... The caste system, higher means the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, they'll never become servant of anyone. Therefore they are higher.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
There are four Vedas—Sāma Veda, Yajur Veda, Ṛg Veda, and Atharva Veda. Originally there was one Veda, but later on, Vyāsadeva divided them into four. So Yajur Veda is one of the Vedas, and the Īśopaniṣad is stated there. All the Upaniṣads are stated in the different kinds of Vedas. Therefore Upaniṣad is accepted as Vedic study.
Festival Lectures
According to Māyāvāda philosophy, this is twenty-five. And according to impersonal philosophy or void philosophy, it is twenty-four. So originally, it is eight. So in this way... Buddha philosophy means that this whole existence of our body or our self is the combination of matter. That is the way of thinking of modern scientists also, that this body is a combination of matter. Under Darwin's theory also, like that, "organic matter, inorganic matter." They are studying evolution of this matter, organic matter. But actually that is not the fact. The fact is that use, individual soul, that is the real fact. And that individual soul is the seed, and upon that seed, this body has developed. According to our Vedic understanding, the body develops on the seed. This is very practical. Why we have got different bodies, different types of bodies? Because the condition of the seed is different. The seed is the spirit soul, and by material contact it is covered by finer body, intelligence, mind, and ego. And according to the quality of that ego, we develop different kinds of this material gross body. Therefore somebody has developed the body in the modes of goodness, because material nature is divided into three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. Somebody has developed body in the modes of passion. Somebody has developed body in the modes of ignorance. But the root is the spirit soul. And the finer cover is desire, ego, intelligence, mind. And the gross cover is this body.
So in the Vedic literatures, the whole Vedas, there are four Vedas originally—Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva—and from that Vedas, four Vedas, there are so many Upaniṣads, hundred-and-eight Upaniṣads. And the cream of the Upaniṣads is the Vedānta-sūtra. And the Vedānta-sūtra is very clearly explained by Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So this Vedic literature is giving us the help and the clue how we can get out of this miserable condition of life. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the essence or cream of all these Vedic literature. In the Bhagavad-gītā, you will find that vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). By studying all the Vedic literature, you will have to find out Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, rather Kṛṣṇa's incarnation, Lord Caitanya, is so kind that He is giving you Kṛṣṇa in the form of His name. Nāma rūpe kṛṣṇa avatāra. So this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, practically you can see also, Kṛṣṇa, this name Kṛṣṇa and the original Supreme Personality of Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent. If you simply chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you are associating constantly with Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact.
Our human life, the ultimate goal of human life is to achieve immortality. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), This is our..., we have forgotten this. We are simply leading the life of cats and dogs, without any knowledge that we can achieve that perfection of life when there will be no more birth, no more death. We do not understand even that there is possibility of amṛtatvam. But everything is possible. Amṛtatvam. Nobody wants to die. That's a fact. Nobody wants to become old man, nobody wants to become diseased. This is our natural inclination. Why? Because originally, in our spiritual form, there is no birth, no death, no old age, no disease. So after evolutionary process down from the aquatics, birds, beasts, plants, trees, when you come to this form of human form of body after... Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tād jīva-jātiṣu. This is evolutionary process. We come to the human form of body. Then we should know what is the goal of life. The goal of life is amṛtatvam, to become immortal. That you can become immortal simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says. It is a fact. We have to simply understand. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, tattvataḥ, then, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body, you don't accept any more material body. And as soon as you don't accept any material body means you become immortal. Because by nature we are immortal.
Our system is gopī-bhārtur pāda-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). It is sometimes called bureaucracy. If you apply something, at least in India, to the President, you'll have to submit to the local collector. The collector will submit to somebody else, somebody else, then secretary, you go. Then to the President. So our system is that. So it is not that I am training my disciples to worship me, man-worship, I'm getting some honor from them for nothing. No. It is not that. Whatever honor, whatever respect, whatever presentation you are giving to your spiritual master, it will go to Kṛṣṇa by paramparā system. This is Vyāsa-pūjā. Therefore, it is called Vyāsa-pūjā. Vyāsa-pūjā means Vyāsadeva is the original guru. After Brahma, Nārada, then Vyāsa. And Vyāsa is original guru, because from his literature we understand spiritual knowledge. All these literatures whatever we have produced, they are actually originally from Vyāsadeva. The four Vedas, Brahma-sūtra, Upaniṣads, Purāṇas, they are called Vedic literature. And whatever is written with the conclusion of this Vedic literature, that is also Vedic literature. Just like our books. All our books, they are not mental speculation. Whatever I have learned from my Guru Mahārāja, I am presenting. That's all. It is not mental speculation—this philosophy, that philosophy. We kick out all these things. Unless we get the knowledge from the authorized source, we don't accept.
The Jagannātha temple is managed by a body, and it is the custom that the local magistrate of the district, he becomes the president, or manager. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was manager in that sense, because he was magistrate. The managing committee was being presided by him. So there was a complaint. In Orissa, this Jagannātha temple is situated in Orissa. Utkāla. Utkāla, this state, was originally belonging to Dhruva Mahārāja. His son's name was Utkāla, Mahārāja Utkāla. Anyway, so this Utkāla, there was a pseudo yogi. He declared himself that... Just like you'll find nowadays also, there are so many rascals declaring that "I am incarnation of God." And they know some mystic power, play some jugglery, and foolish people take them: "Oh, he's God." So there appeared one like such pseudo God, Viṣṇu, in a village of Orissa. And he was dancing rāsa dance, and foolish people were sending their daughters and wife to dance with him.
Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not liked by the hereditary brāhmaṇas. They dislike. Whenever there is Caitanya movement, they pose another counter. This Rama-Krishna is a counteraction of Caitanya. Because Caitanya, the Vaiṣṇava-sampradāya, accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as incarnation of God, so they presented this Gadādhara Chatterjee as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, and by worshiping Kālī. You see? So this competition is since a very long time between the Vaiṣṇava and the other sect. Anyway, when these Gosvāmīs... My point is that originally the Gosvāmīs came from ordinary person. There is no caste. But they manufactured a caste of Gosvāmī, you see, this brāhmaṇa class. This brāhmaṇa class, the hereditary brāhmaṇa class, played so many havocs in the history of India. The Pakistan is also due to this hereditary brahmanism. You see? They hated so much the Muhammadans and the śūdras. First of all they hated the śūdras, and then, when the śūdras, they became Muhammadans, they hated the Muhammadans. And gradually it developed that the so-called śūdras and Muhammadans, politically the Britishers took advantage, agitated them. They cut up India into Pakistan and Hindustan.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
This young boy and young girl trying to unite for happiness is the natural inclination of the living entity. It is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything that we see in this material world is there in the spiritual world. Janmādy asya yataḥ. Wherefrom everything is coming? The original source, the original source of this love, is there in the Absolute. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ. It is the manifestation of the pleasure potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So the thing as it is originally is perfect, but here, the same thing is only perverted reflection. Here, the boys and the girls meeting, because it is simply a reflection... Just like a reflection of the tree on the river, it is just topsy-turvied, similarly, that reflection, reality, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa love, is topsy-turvied here.
General Lectures
Ladies and gentlemen, this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is reviving our original consciousness. At the present moment, due to our long association with matter, the consciousness has become contaminated, just like when the rain water falls down from the cloud, the water is uncontaminated, distilled water, pure, but as soon as the water falls down on this earth, it becomes mixed up with so many dirty things. When the water falls it is not salty, but when it is touched with the matter or earth, it becomes salty, or tasty, or something like that. Similarly, originally, as spirit soul, our consciousness is uncontaminated, but due to our association with the matter at the present moment, our consciousness is contaminated. Therefore we have got so many varieties of consciousness. Disagreements between one person to another is due to this contaminated consciousness. I think some way; you think otherwise. Therefore we do not agree. But originally, your consciousness and my consciousness were one. And what is that one? That conscious, pure consciousness, is "God is great, and I am His eternal servant." That is pure consciousness. As soon as we want to imitate or artificially want to become one with God, immediately the contamination begins.
Anyone who is using Kṛṣṇa's money without acknowledging, he is a thief. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Stena eva sa ucyate: he's a thief. So in this material world, one who has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one who is not using things in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Everyone is using Kṛṣṇa's... Nobody has got any property. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That is the version in Īśopaniṣad. Now, in this American land, now divided into Canada, North America, South America, but originally, to whom this land belongs? It belongs to Kṛṣṇa. You have come here and have divided Kṛṣṇa's property and you have named "This is Canada, this is North America, this is South America," and you are claiming proprietorship. But if you are asked, "Are you really proprietor?" No. You have come here, encroached upon others' property. So originally, you are thief. Actually this is the position, that anyone who is unlawfully claiming something, "It is mine," that is illusion. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This ahaṁ mameti, "It is mine, and it is I. This body, I. And in bodily relation, everything mine," these two things are illusion. Ahaṁ mameti. Aham means "I." What "I"? This body. And what "mine"? This, "My wife is mine, my children, my home, my country." Why? Because the bodily relationship is there.
Upendra: Swamijī, if our rasa with Kṛṣṇa is eternal, and we want to have the rasa of lover with Kṛṣṇa, is it possible to change? If our rasa is like father to son, we can never become lover?
Prabhupāda: No. You have got eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That cannot be changed. You're constitutionally in position, in a certain position. Either you have got... But every relationship is spiritual and nice. If you have got that inclination that you want to be Kṛṣṇa's lover, then that means originally you are already in relationship with Kṛṣṇa in that stage. That will be revealed when you are in perfectional devotional stage.
So all newcomer students, you are welcome. Thank you very much. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the supreme leader. Human society cannot work without leader. Anywhere you go, any country, any nation, any society, any community, any family, there is a leader. So the Vedas instruct that there is a supreme leader. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). This (is) very important mantra in Kaṭha Upaniṣad. You have heard the names of Upaniṣad. They are Vedic literatures. Originally, the Veda was one, Sāma Veda. Then it was divided into four, Sāma Veda, Atharva Veda, Ṛg Veda, Yajur Veda. Then the Vedas verses were explained in Upaniṣads. There are 108 Upaniṣads. Then the whole conclusion was made shortened, cream. That is called Vedānta-sūtra. And again, this Vedic knowledge was, I mean to say, compiled in simple way for understanding of less intelligent class of men. That is called Mahābhārata. And in the Mahābhārata there is one chapter which is called Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is only a chapter of the great history of India, Mahābhārata. And then Vedānta-sūtra is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Vedic literature is very old. Nobody can trace out the history. So far we understand, it is not man-made. It is coming out from transcendental world by disciplic succession.
Just like here you see Kṛṣṇa is in love with beautiful young girls. The same thing is here also. We are also accustomed to love beautiful girls, or beautiful girls accustomed to love beautiful boys. So the same thing is going on there in the spiritual world. It is simply reflection. The real thing is there in the spiritual world. It is simply shadow. The same loving affairs in a shadowy, hazy form is represented here. Originally it is in the spiritual world, in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not to be supposed old man. God is never an old man. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated,
- advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam
- ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca
- (Bs. 5.33)
God, Kṛṣṇa, He's the original person because from the original father, you can take, from whom everyone has come. Therefore He's the oldest. Advaitam acyutam anādim ādyam. Ādyam means the original person. Man is made after God; therefore God is original person. So that person ādyam, acyutam, anādim, nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca means He is always a young man.
Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). There are four classes of men created by God: cātur-varṇyaṁ. How they are divided? How the classification is made? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: by classification of quality and work. Not by birth. In India, of course, this classification of guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ was originally planned from the Vedic age. But later on, a class of men, without any qualification, without any practical work, they claimed that "I belong to such and such class." Therefore India's falldown was inevitable. So Bhagavad-gītā says, "Not like that." Bhagavad-gītā says that these classes of men, cātur-varṇyaṁ—the brahminical class, the kṣatriya class, the vaiśya class, and the śūdra class—is everywhere. Not only in India, but also throughout the whole universe, in every country, in every nation, in every society, there must be some people who have brahminical tendency.
Our conditional life of material existence is due to dirty things in our heart. Originally we are all Kṛṣṇa conscious living beings, but due to our long material association in different species of life, varying to 8,400,000 different forms of life, we are accustomed to transmigrating from one form of body or another. In such cycle of birth and death, I, you, and every one of us, although originally spirit soul and therefore qualitatively one in constitution with the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, we have identified with this material form of life, subjected to various forms of material pangs, specifically in the shape of birth, death, old age and disease. The whole material civilization is a process of hard struggle of life, ending in birth, death, old age and disease. The human society is struggling fruitlessly against these perpetual problems of life in different ways. Some of them are making material attempts and some of them are making partially spiritual attempts. The materialists are trying to solve the problems by achievement of scientific knowledge, education, philosophy, morality, ethics, poetic thoughts, etc., and the spiritualists are trying to solve the problems by different theses like discerning matter from spirit in various ways. And some of them are trying as mystic yogis to arrive at the right conclusion. But all of them must know it for certain that in this age of Kali, or the age of quarrel and dissension, there is no possibility of success without accepting the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the speaker of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, has therefore recommended that everyone, be he a fruitive worker, a salvationist or a mystic yogi, if actually he wants to be freed from the pangs of material existence, he must take to the process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. The finger is expected to give service to the whole body. When I am feeling itching, my finger is helping it. When I want to pick up something, my finger is helping. Similarly, any part of my body... When I want to go out, my leg is walking. When I want, I want to see something, my eyes are helping. So in this way you can understand what we mean by part and parcel. Take materially also, any machine. The part and parcel... Just like here is a machine, tape recorder. There are different parts. One part is required to give, adjust speed; one part is required how to move, how to start, how to stop, how to increase. So different parts. Similarly, we are living entities, and the Lord is also a living entity. And we are originally created to help the Lord. He does not require... Because He's complete. But just to give a crude example, as the part and parcel required: now, suppose this finger is not giving me service. It is diseased. So sometimes doctors advise that "You have to amputate this finger, otherwise it will affect the whole body." Similarly, we living entities, being part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, when we rebel, that is our diseased condition. We, when we don't want to render service to the Lord, that is a state which is called demonic state.
Then what is the basic idea behind Kṛṣṇa consciousness? That means originally we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa, or God, is my Lord, is my father... Because part and parcel... Just like somebody's children. The children is a part and parcel of the body. Why I love my child? Because he is my part and parcel of this body. I don't love so much other children because they are not part and parcel of my body. This family affection means the family members, they have got with bo..., relationship with my body; therefore he has got the consciousness, "He is my father. He is my mother." And the parents lave consciousness, "They are my child." So they have got some duty. The father wants to see how the children are comfortably raised, and the children also seeing the interest of the father and mother. Just like in family life we have got a certain kind of consciousness, "He's my father. He's my child." Similarly, if we develop our original consciousness, that "God is our father; we are all children," then the whole trouble ceases. If God is the proprietor of everything and every children has got right to enjoy the God's property, then where is the trouble? For want of this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone is claiming, "This is my property. This is my state. This is my country." Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). Aham means "I," and mama means "mine." This is nonsense. Nothing belongs to you. Everything belongs to God. Everyone has got right to live on God's property. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Just like a child. He knows, "My father is there. I have no want." Everything is there. Prasannātmā. "Why shall I hanker him? My father..." (break) ...is now diseased. He's now lunatic. Similarly, tiger is my brother, but not that because originally he's my brother, I shall go and embrace. No. I shall be careful. But not that I shall kill. Why shall I kill? He's not coming to encroach upon my property. He's living in the jungle. Why shall I go and kill a tiger? This is all nonsense, lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has not done any harm to you. He is living in his own jurisdiction. He is uncivilized. He is ferocious. God has given him direction: "Oh, you live here. You don't go there." That's all right. And why should you go to kill a tiger? He's not coming to encroach him. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should I kill unnecessarily an animal? We have got so many nice foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa has given me grains, fruits, milk. The cows, they are supplying tons of milk, but they are not claiming, "It is my milk. I shall drink." No. It is giving to you, as mother gives. And we are killing cows, killing mothers. This is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
You see this picture, five learned brāhmaṇas. In the center there is one picture who is Lord Caitanya. He started this movement when He was only seventeen years old, a boy. A boy only—a schoolboy. He was student, but He introduced this movement five hundred years ago, and some of the elderly men, as you see, one elderly man with beard, He also helped Him, and the others... Actually this movement was originally started by young boys. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu, and Advaita Prabhu, They started. And there was a great agitation against Them by the brāhmaṇas, priestly brāhmaṇas, at that time. So Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up these sixteen words from Vedic literature. It is not that He manufactured something. No. In the Vedic way there is no question of manufacturing something, religious process. No. Just like you manufacture law. In your state, privately, you cannot manufacture law. The law is given by the state. Similarly, any process, any process for self-realization, you cannot manufacture. That is to be taken directly from God and His representative. That is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19).
Because you are seeking after joy. Because you are originally transcendental, spirit soul. You're hankering after. Your business is to come to that platform of joyfulness. But you are somehow or other put into this material platform. You are not having fulfilled your joy. Just like you belong to this land, and if you are put into the ocean, Atlantic Ocean, however expert swimmer you may be, you cannot be happy. You have to come back to the land. Then you can be happy. Similarly, we are all spiritual souls, spiritual sparks. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine means there are molecular parts of shining principles. Similarly, we are also molecular parts and parcel of God, who is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In the Vedānta-sūtra... He is full of joy. So we, as part and parcel also, we are full of joy. So unless we come in contact with the Supreme, our joyfulness will never be fulfilled. Therefore we have to come to the spiritual platform if we want to have that full spiritual or full joyfulness, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt.
This is the statement of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there but by hearing and purifying yourself, that consciousness comes. Just like water. Water is very clean. When it rains from the clouds it is very clean, but as soon as it drops on the ground it becomes muddy. So that muddiness has to be cleansed then water will come out again clean. Similarly, our consciousness is clean, Kṛṣṇa conscious, actually, originally, but because it is contaminated with the muddy things of the material nature, it is cloudy. So, this process—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare—is the cleaning, clarifying process, of the consciousness. Clarifying process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam (CC Antya 20.12). If you take to this clarifying process, then it will be just like as clear as mirror and you will be able to see your face nicely, what I am. Then you'll understand that I don't belong to this material world, I belong to the spiritual world, ahaṁ brahmāsmi; and when you realize that, then if you can act yourself as Brahman, then your life is successful.
Viṣṇu Purāṇa therefore says, viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā. Originally, the energy of Kṛṣṇa is transcendental, spiritual.
- viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā
- kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā
- avidyā-karma-saṁjñānya
- tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate
- (CC Madhya 6.154)
So Kṛṣṇa can change superior energy into inferior energy and inferior energy into superior energy. That is His omnipotency. As such, when Kṛṣṇa appears within this material world, even though He assumes a so-called material body, according to the Māyāvādī philosophers, that is not material. He can change into spiritual. That is His omnipotency. Sambhavāmy ātmā-māyayā (BG 4.6). Just like the electrical engineer, the same electrical energy, he can use it for refrigerator and he can use it for heater. It is his manipulation. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, by His Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, He can turn this material world into spiritual world simply by changing the consciousness. That is in His power. Therefore anything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness should not be considered as material.
Nana-śāstra-vicaraṇaika-nipunau, vicāra. Vicāra means to study them with careful attention. Vicāra. Nana-śās... So these Gosvāmīs were studying many kinds of Vedic literatures. There are hundreds and thousands of Vedic literature—primarily four Vedas, Sama, Yajur, Atharva, Ṛg, Atharva. Then from the Vedas, there are supplementary Vedas, which are called Purāṇas, eighteen Purāṇas. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is one of the Purāṇas, Mahā-Purāṇa. Then there is, there are Mahābhārata, "The Great History of India." Bhārata means India, and Mahā means greater, greater India. The greater India was the whole planet. The whole planet was Bhārata-varṣa. Now it is crippled. It has become a small tract of land. But originally everywhere, this portion of the world, America, it was also Bhārata-varṣa. Sapta-dvīpa, seven islands. Seven islands. Actually the whole planet is full of water—Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean, Indian Ocean. Full of water. And these are islands only—Asia, Europe, America. There are seven islands, sapta-dvīpa. The planet is sapta-dvīpa, seven full, comprising of seven islands. That is Bhārata-varṣa.
Without being bhakta, who can become Kṛṣṇa's dear friend? "So therefore, I am speaking to you this confidential." Rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam. It is very mysterious. The first thing is that without becoming a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, bhakta, and dear friend... Kṛṣṇa, we can establish our relationship with Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. There are five rasas. They are called śānta-rasa, dāsya-rasa, sakhya-rasa, vātsalya-rasa, and mādhurya-rasa. Of course, in this material world also we find these five rasas in a perverted reflections. Originally, it is between Kṛṣṇa and His devotee. So Arjuna was related with Kṛṣṇa in sakhya-rasa, as friend, a devotee as a friend. Anyone can become related with Kṛṣṇa. We have got our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa because we are all parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the father and the son is eternally related. A son may become rebellion to the father, but the relationship of father and son cannot be broken. Similarly, we are also related with Kṛṣṇa. Somehow or other, that we have forgotten. That is our present position. That is called māyā. Māyā means when we forget our relationship with Kṛṣṇa and we establish so many false relationships. Now at the present moment, I am thinking "I am Indian," somebody is thinking "I am American," somebody is thinking "I am Hindu," somebody is thinking "I am Muslim." These relationships are all false, māyā.
Just like here is the Arabian Sea. You take a drop of water from the Arabian Sea, you taste it, you'll find it is salty. The salt is there in a drop of the Arabian Sea water, and salt is there in the Arabian Sea. But the quantity of salt in the whole Arabian Sea and the quantity of salt in the drop of water, they are different. Similarly, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, all the qualities of Kṛṣṇa, they are also present within us in minute quantity. And because it is in minute quantity, sometimes it becomes lost. Therefore our consciousness, originally, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our original consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but somehow or other, being in contact with this matter, we have lost our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore this movement is to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our original constitutional position. That I was explaining, quoting the Bengali poet
- kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare
- pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
Because somehow or other in material contact we have lost our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it has to be revived. It has to be revived; then we shall be happy. That is the particular point we want to stress on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement-revival of the original consciousness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has explained this as ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the heart.
So this movement is very important movement, that we are attempting to revive one's original consciousness. The original consciousness is clean. Just like the water. Originally, when it drops from the clouds, it is distilled water, clean, but as soon as it comes in touch with the muddy earth, it becomes unclean. Similarly, originally our consciousness was Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, in touch with the material modes of nature, we have formed different types of consciousness. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmaṣu (BG 13.22). This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kāraṇam—the cause, the cause of our tribulation. What is that tribulation? Sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. We are taking repeatedly birth, one after another, sometimes very good birth and sometimes very bad, sad asad. There are 8,400,000 species of life. Sometimes I may become Brahma and sometimes I may become the insect or the germ in the stool. That is my position. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Because we have lost the original consciousness, I am being in contact with the material modes of nature, means sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ. We are mixing with the different types of material qualities, and as such we are developing different modes of material nature in our consciousness. This consciousness has to be cleared.
Māyā... Just like here also, if we say, "I don't care for the government." Then what will be? So treason act. I'll be arrested, I'll be punished. Similarly, living entities are originally part and parcel of God. Just like father and son. The Christian people also understand, God is Supreme Father and we are all His sons. You go to church and pray, "God, give us our daily bread." Father. So that is conception in Bhagavad-gītā also. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am father of all living entities." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.
You have seen the picture, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So eternally engaged in enjoyment, in the association of the gopīs. Gopī-jana-vallabha. And His only business is how to please the gopīs. Just like here, in this material world, the young boy who loves a young girl, he tries to please the girl always. This is natural. Because originally, the same thing is there in God. It is a pleasure. It is a pleasure for the male to please the female counterpart. That is originally created. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir ahlādinī-śaktiḥ. These Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa love affairs is the originally there. Rādhārāṇī, the female counterpart, is the manifestation of ahlādinī-śakti, pleasure potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has got many potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). God, God means with His potencies. Just like ordinarily, we are part and parcel of God, a minute particle; still, we have got so many potencies.
Just like modern scientists, they're trying to go to other planets but they're conditioned, they cannot go. We can see. There are millions and trillions of planets before us—the sun planet, the moon planet, the Venus, the Mars. Sometimes we wish, "How I could go there." But because I am conditioned, I'm not independent, I cannot go. But originally, because you are spirit soul, originally you were free to move any way. Just like Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni moves everywhere; any planet he likes he can go. Still, there is one planet within this universe which is called Siddhaloka. That Siddhaloka, the inhabitants of Siddhaloka, they can fly from one planet to another without any airplane. Even yogis, yogis, haṭha-yogīs, those who have practiced, they can also go from anywhere to anyplace. The yogis, they sit down in one place and immediately transferred in another place. They take a dip in some river nearby here and they can get up in some river in India. They dip here and they rise there. These are yogic powers.
To renounce this world is not very big thing because the world also, created by God. So instead of renouncing, if we utilize this God-created material world for God's service, then it is spiritual. Because originally it belongs to God. Originally it is spiritual. Therefore in the higher sense there is nothing material. Everything is spiritual because everything is coming, emanating from the Supreme Spirit. So we have to learn the art how to utilize everything for God. Just like we are. We are also living in the house. Without a house, where can you live? We are also human being. We cannot lie down on the street. We have got some house, some protection. We are also eating, we are also sleeping, and we are also mating, and we are also defending. But it is in a different way. These boys and girls, some of them are married, so they are also begetting children, and that means mating. But you see in our temple, even small child, he is offering obeisances, he is offering a flower, he is also chanting, he is also dancing. So to make sex for begetting such children, it is also God. But if we beget children like cats and dogs, then it is material. Because there is no God consciousness. So everything can be turned. Hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ: without any attachment.
Philosophy Discussions
Hayagrīva: He writes, "Absolutely no human reason can hope to understand the production of even a blade of grass by mere mechanical causes."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he has to know everything from the person or authority who knows that thing. That means this is perfect way of understanding, to take knowledge from the authority who is actually cognizant and knows things as they are.
Hayagrīva: He believes that behind nature or mechanical laws, he says that crude matter, or prakṛti, should have originally formed itself according to mechanical laws or automatically; that life should have sprung from the nature of what is lifeless. That matter should have been able to dispose itself into the form of a self-maintaining purpose is contradictory to reason. Simply by using our reason we can intuit the creator behind the creation.
Prabhupāda: No. Unless there is a brain... Matter has no brain. Matter cannot combine together without a brain behind. That brain is the Supreme Lord, God. That is quite reasonable. And if somebody thinks matter automatically combines together and becomes the sun, becomes the moon, so bright, without any brain behind it—that is ludicrous.
Prabhupāda: It is the expression of the energy of spirit. Everything is energy. Whatever is manifested, that is the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Thus one energy manifestation is eternal and another energy manifestation is temporary. Which is temporary manifestation, that is material, and which is eternal manifestation, that is spiritual.
Śyāmasundara: So you could say both, you could say this is made of spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes, originally it is made of spirit in this sense, that Kṛṣṇa is whole spirit, and because it is Kṛṣṇa's energy, so factually it is Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: Is this Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And when it is broken, then it is again earth. In any condition it is earth.
Śyāmasundara: This pot and this brick, these are not images then, they are dirt, they are...
Prabhupāda: Then you make images. You make images, but when you make images, that is also earth. And when it is broken, that is also earth. And originally it is earth. Sarvam khalv idaṁ brahma. The three conditions: formless condition, form, and again, what it is called-merging. In three conditions it is earth. Aham evāsam evāgre, in the Bhāgavata Kṛṣṇa says, "I existed in the beginning of creation, I maintain the creation, and when the creation is broken, I exist."
Prabhupāda: So there was a chunk.
Śyāmasundara: "The hierarchy of condensations." There are two theories: one is that everything was originally gas, and the other is that everything was originally turbulence or energy.
Prabhupāda: Originally gas. Now, so far we have got our experience, gas is produced from some liquid, is it not?
Śyāmasundara: They say that the liquid is produced from the gas.
Prabhupāda: That is also taught by us.
Prabhupāda: Not spiritual body, material body. Spiritual body cannot be changed.
Śyāmasundara: No. We're not talking about bodies, we're talking about the life force.
Prabhupāda: Life force means that the spirit soul has got spiritual body. That I have explained several times. Just like you have got this body. When you cut your coat, it is according to the body. Because we have hands, legs, therefore it is to be understood that this dress is made according to that real body. So originally the spirit soul has got body, so these physical elements are just like a covering, exactly to the size of the hands, legs, everything.
Prabhupāda: This is Brahman. Brahman means the greatest. Greatest.
Śyāmasundara: But when you say "Everything is Brahman," you are also willing to include another set of propositions which show how to experience Brahman, how one can experience this fact, "Everything is Brahman."
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult. Just like this International Society. Originally I started, so in any center, I am there. I am there. My photograph is there, I am there, accepting, Bhaktivedanta Swami. So personally I am not there, but I still am there by my expansion of energy. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original Brahman. Whatever we see, we perceive, experience, it's all Kṛṣṇa's expansion of energy. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Just like fire. There is fire, so cover it. Covering, covering. When it is true cover, then they don't get the heat and light. But they cleanse the covering, move the covering, the fire is there.
Śyāmasundara: So even the consciousness of the tree is originally higher than (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is simply covered. The potency is there. Just like a flower in the bud stage, the potency is there to become a (indistinct) flower. So the covering by gradually coming out, coming out, finally, very beautiful rose.
Śyāmasundara: But someone would say that that bud is developing into a flower.
Prabhupāda: That is a (indistinct) in the terminology. Just like we say that we are changing bodies, they say developing bodies. So anyway, either you say developing or changing, the original body is not there. That you have to accept. The child's body, either you say it has developed into youth's body, and either you say that is (indistinct) body. I say the child's body is gone; it is another body. In both cases, the child's body is no longer existing. That you have to agree—either you call developed or it has gone.
Śyāmasundara: For instance, he says that all male personalities, in their shadow personality, there is a bit of the female, and in all females there is a bit of the male propensity. So often we cover these up and become repressed and we do not understand our actions.
Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy, because every living entity is by nature a female, prakṛti. I was discussing this morning, parā prakṛti, living entity, but it is prakṛti. Prakṛti means female and puruṣa means male. So here in this material world, although we are prakṛti, we are (indistinct) ourselves as puruṣa. This male-female dress, that is immaterial. Our consciousness is now male consciousness. A female, the so-called female, here, she also wants to enjoy a male, and the male also, he also wants to enjoy the female. Both of them have the same propensity of enjoying. So this enjoying propensity is for male. Therefore jīvātmā is sometimes described as puruṣa. But actually the jīvātmā, the living entities, they are puruṣa, he's prakṛti. Prakṛti means predominated, and puruṣa means predominator. So we are all predominated. And the (indistinct) predominator is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore originally, by constitution, we are all females.
Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no difference in temperament. The real (indistinct), the center (indistinct). Just like in your country it is the women is very (indistinct) that why they shall not be treated exactly like men. And the same thing is coming in our country also.
Śyāmasundara: And the men also want to have long hair and...
Prabhupāda: Actually, the real position is that every living entity is female, originally. But falsely he is imitating to become a male, enjoy. This is called māyā. Actually he is female, but he is trying to imitate the supreme male, Kṛṣṇa. That is called māyā. This is not fact. So our proposition is, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you come to the original state, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are not predominator, you are predominated. Predominated means female.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God loves. Because unless He loves, why does He come personally? Why He gives instruction through scriptures? (break)
Śyāmasundara: So today we are discussing a philosopher named Samuel Alexander. He is the philosopher of emergent evolution. The last of the evolutionists we'll be discussing. His philosophy begins with the idea that objects, external objects, have an independent existence. They do not depend on consciousness for their existence. This is the opposite of many philosophers we have discussed who have said that nothing exists unless it is perceived. But this philosopher says something may exist even though it is not perceived. Even though there is no conscious life to observe, it still exists. Objects exist independently of perception.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like God exists, either you perceive or not perceive. Is that all right? God, creator. Just like everyone has got father, so all living entities coming originally from a father. So you perceive or not perceive, it doesn't matter. But a father was there or is there. Is that all right?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Suppose if nobody perceives an object. Say, like...
Prabhupāda: This is not striving. By nature's way the lower animals, they come to the platform of man. Jīva-jātiṣu paryayaḥ, it is called. Paryayaḥ means one after another. There is nature's help. Up to the human being, that law works. And human being, being developed conscious, so he has got the power of discrimination. Because originally the soul is given independence. Just like Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). "Whatever you like, you do." That is the original connection. God is the Supersoul; we are soul, under Him, subordinate. So we are called taṭastha, means marginal. Marginal means we can remain either way. Either on God's side or māyā's side. That is my choice. So when we don't want to serve God, then we are sent to the māyā, to serve māyā. Māyā means his position as servant remains the same, but he thinks "I am master." That is māyā. He is Just like a child trying to do something father does not like. But when he cries, he's given that. "All right. Do this." But "All right, do this" or "Do that," he is under the father. He is under the control of the father. But when he is given such chance, "Oh, I am independent now. I am independent." So this is called māyā. He's never independent, but he thinks, "I am independent." Similarly, here also Just like we Indians, we have got independence. So what kind of independence? In British period there was not so much dependence. These rascal laws, that you have to go So many things. You cannot move now.
Hayagrīva: Now you said to Śyāmasundara that water existed before our mental conception of H2O. We conceive of H2O, we think of well, what is..., we begin to analyze water, and we say, well, it's two parts hydrogen, one part oxygen. But before we even began to think of this, water existed.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Therefore H2O is not the permanent essence or the primordial existence of water, but what Plato is saying is that everything that exists has its seed or essence or idea.
Prabhupāda: Seed is originally with Kṛṣṇa.
Hayagrīva: Yes. The seed is, then, Kṛṣṇa says bījam, "I am the seed..."
Prabhupāda: Bīja ahaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Whatever is manifest, the original God had.
Hayagrīva: There's no correspondence there. That is to say, a beautiful body does not necessarily house a beautiful soul. There's no correspondence.
Prabhupāda: No, there is correspondence, because we say this material world is perverted reflection. So originally the soul is beauty, but here the beauty is covered. But we can simply have a glimpse of the real beauty from the material covering, but we have to wait to see the beauty of the soul. That is real point.
Prabhupāda: The spirit soul is within this material body, but the spirit soul has no material body originally. There is a spiritual body of the spirit soul eternally existing, and the material body is simply coating of the spiritual body. This material body is considered as coating, shirt-coat. It is cut according to the bodily shape. Just ordinarily we can see the tailor makes the shirt and coat according to the shape of the body. Similarly, these material elements, earth, water, fire, etc., mixed together, becomes like a clay, and it is coated over the spiritual body. The spiritual body has no connection with the material body. So because the spiritual body has got shape, the material body also takes a shape. That is understanding. But material body has nothing to do with the spiritual body. It is simply external coating, or it is a kind of contamination for suffering of the spirit soul. As soon as he is coated with this material contamination, he identifies himself with the coating and he forgets his real, spiritual body. That is called māyā, ignorance, and this ignorance continues so long he is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. When one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he understands that this material body is the external coating; he is different from this material body. That condition, that uncontaminated understanding, is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. The spirit soul is Brahman. He was under the illusion of bodily concept of life—that is called jīva-bhūtaḥ—and when he understands that he is not this body, he is the spirit soul within the body, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. So when one comes to this understanding of his spiritual identity, he becomes joyful, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54), he has no more any hankering or lamentation. In that position he sees all other living entities as spirit soul. He does not see the outward covering. Even in a dog he sees the spirit soul covered by the body of a dog, and similarly a learned brāhmaṇa, he also sees the spirit soul covered by the material body designated as learned brāhmaṇa.
Hayagrīva: Well that..., well then maybe this is saying the same thing. "By its nature the form of the soul is the form of the body. It is that form incorruptible."
Prabhupāda: No. The form..., material body is imitation, is false. Real body is the spiritual body. Because the spiritual body has form, the coating of the spiritual body by matter takes a form, as I have already explained, that the shirt and coat originally has no form, but when the shirt and coat is cut by the tailor according the form of the man, it takes a form. So actually this material form is illusion. It is not form. It, it takes the form, and when it is old enough, no more use, it again comes to the original position, earth. "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." This form is made by the material nature. It is just like a machine. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). The soul has its own form, but he is given a machine, a particular machine, which is this body, and therefore he enjoys by wandering throughout the whole universe in different conditions of life.
| Page Title: | Originally (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 25 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=58, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 58 |