Vedas, Veda. Veda means the book of knowledge. Now, the book of knowledge... According to the climate, according to the population, according to the country, there are different books of knowledge. Just like in India the book of knowledge is accepted as the Vedas, Vedas, Vedic knowledge. In your European, American countries the book of knowledge accepted as the Old Testament, New Testament. Similarly, the book of knowledge amongst the Muhammadans, they have accepted as the Koran. Actually, they are book of knowledge, undoubtedly. There is no doubt about it. But what are these book of knowledge, religious scripture? Religious scripture means they are meant for training you to that conception of life that you are pure soul, nothing more. They restrict your bodily activities under certain conditions, under certain conditions. That is called morality. Just like your Bible has got ten commandments. Ten commandments. What is that commandments? To regulate your life. Because without regulation you cannot... Because we have to control the body to reach to the highest perfection. So if we don't follow any regulative principles, how we can make our life perfect? So that regulative principle may be a little, little different from my country to your country or my Veda to your Bible, but that does not matter. That is made according to the time, condition and the mentality of the population. But there is the regulative control. Regulative control. A human society is not considered civilized unless, unless and until the members of the society are put into some regulative control. The whole state, your American state or any state, the citizens are controlled by regulative principle. Without regulative principle, you cannot make the progressive march of the state or the people or the citizens.
Old and New Testaments - Bible
Srimad-Bhagavatam
SB Canto 7
Upon seeing the person engaged in performing the sacrifice, animals meant to be sacrificed are extremely afraid, thinking, "This merciless performer of sacrifices, being ignorant of the purpose of sacrifice and being most satisfied by killing others, will surely kill us."
Animal sacrifice in the name of religion is current practically all over the world in every established religion. It is said that Lord Jesus Christ, when twelve years old, was shocked to see the Jews sacrificing birds and animals in the synagogues and that he therefore rejected the Jewish system of religion and started the religious system of Christianity, adhering to the Old Testament commandment "Thou shalt not kill." At the present day, however, not only are animals killed in the name of sacrifice, but the killing of animals has increased enormously because of the increasing number of slaughterhouses. Slaughtering animals, either for religion or for food, is most abominable and is condemned herein. Unless one is merciless, one cannot sacrifice animals, either in the name of religion or for food.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta
CC Adi-lila
After hearing these statements by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the Kazi, his arguments stunned, could not put forward any more words. Thus, after due consideration, the Kazi accepted defeat and spoke as follows.
In our practical preaching work we meet many Christians who talk about statements of the Bible. When we question whether God is limited or unlimited, Christian priests say that God is unlimited. But when we question why the unlimited God should have only one son and not unlimited sons, they are unable to answer. Similarly, from a scientific point of view, the answers of the Old Testament, New Testament and Koran to many questions have changed. But a śāstra cannot change at a person's whim. All śāstras must be free from the four defects of human nature. The statements of śāstras must be correct for all time.
"My dear Nimāi Paṇḍita, what You have said is all true. Our scriptures have developed only recently, and they are certainly not logical and philosophical."
The śāstras of the yavanas, or meat-eaters, are not eternal scriptures. They have been fashioned recently, and sometimes they contradict one another. The scriptures of the yavanas are three: the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Koran. Their compilation has a history; they are not eternal like the Vedic knowledge. Therefore although they have their arguments and reasonings, they are not very sound and transcendental. As such, modern people advanced in science and philosophy deem these scriptures unacceptable.
Because the soul is within the body, the body changes through so many forms. There is a soul within the body of every living creature, whether animal, tree, bird or human being, and the soul is transmigrating from one type of body to another. When the scriptures of the yavanas—namely the Old Testament, New Testament and Koran—cannot properly answer inquisitive followers, naturally those advanced in scientific knowledge and philosophy lose faith in such scriptures. The Kazi admitted this while talking with Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The Kazi was a very intelligent person. He had full knowledge of his position, as stated in the following verse.
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Now another point of dharma is, as Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa is describing here, is dharmasya vedoktasya glānir vināśa. Now this is ordinary sense of religion. Just like everyone has got some scripture. The Hindus, they have got Vedic scripture. The Muslims, they have got Koran. The Christians, they have got Bible, Old Testament, New Testament. Similarly, there are many other religious sects, they have got their own scripture. So Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa says that vedoktasya dharmasya. Dharma means the rules and regulations as they are prescribed in the scriptures.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So Lord Buddha appeared at a time where people were too much addicted to animal killing. Still it is going on. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Paśu-ghātam. Any religion where paśu-ghātam is there, that is not religion. That is not religion. That is simply barbarianism, under the name of religion. So God Himself becomes so much disturbed that these rascals are simply killing. At that time, of course, the Buddha religion was not there. The so-called followers of the Vedic religion. In the Vedas there are sanction for killing animal in a special sacrifice, but people took it as general, and they began to kill animals like anything, under the protection of Veda. Therefore when Lord Buddha began to preach his philosophy, ahiṁsā, nonviolence, he did not accept the authority of Vedas. Because people will misuse it. Therefore he said that "I don't care for your Vedas." Just like Lord Jesus Christ rebelled against the whole Testament. He formulated his own testament, New Testament. Similarly, Lord Buddha also, he rejected Vedas and He presented his own philosophy: ahiṁsā, nonviolence. Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. Because he was very kind upon on the poor animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Paśu-ghātam means animal killing. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam. Śruti means Veda. So in the Vedas, although there are, in particular cases, there are animal sacrifice... That is also very restricted. But we cannot say that there is no animal sacrifice. There is in some cases. So Lord Buddha, nindasi, He decried, "No, I don't accept your Vedas." Therefore Buddha religion is different from Vedic religion, because he rejected Vedas. And the Vedic followers, because he rejected Vedic principles, Vedic followers said that he, "You are nāstika." Nāstika means unbeliever.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
What are the four perfectional stage? In the material world there are supposed to be four perfectional stage of human life. What is that? First perfectional stage is that when one becomes very expert in following the religious principles. That is also another perfectional stage of common man. You have got your principles of religions, say, either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Jew. You have got your own Bible or Testament or Koran or Vedas. There are rules and regulation, rituals, everything. So one who follows those rules and regulations, they are called religionist. And what is the effect of becoming religionist? The effect is that you can live very peacefully without any material want. Simply by following the rules and regulation of your scripture, it doesn't matter in which religion you belong to, but if you follow the rules and regulation, then your life will be peaceful and there will be no material want. That is not, of course, peaceful. You cannot expect any peace in this material world because the major problem is birth, death, old age and disease. So you cannot check this. But somehow or other, your life will be peaceful and more than those, I mean to say, upstarts who do not follow any rules and regulation. You'll be in better position, far better position than them. So this is one perfection, to become a man of religiosity.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Journalist: So I just follow up on this very briefly. In other words, you feel that the western-oriented church, whether it be a synagogue or a church, has failed to present... Would you say that it's message is not relevant or that they have failed to present their message properly?
Prabhupāda: No. The thing is these western churches, just like Christianity, these gospels were spoken long, long ago to the primitive men, you see? Jerusalem. These people were living in desert, and they were not so much advanced. So at that time... Of course, in Bible or in the Old Testament, the idea of God is there, that is all nice. But they... Just like the statement, "God created this world." That is a fact. Now those people who are not advanced in those... Now, at the present moment, people are advanced scientifically. They want to know how the creation has taken place. You see? That explanation is not there, neither the church can give them. You see. Therefore they are not satisfied. Simply officially going to the church and offering prayer, that does not appeal to them. Besides that, practically, they do not follow religious principles. Just like in the Old Testament, there is, I mean to say, Ten Commandments, and there is Commandment that "Thou shall not kill." But killing affair is very prominent in the Christian world. They are maintaining slaughterhouse very regularly, and they have manufactured a theory that animals have no soul, they do not feel—because they have to kill. "Give the dog a bad name and hang it." Why animal cannot feel? Why you are committing these sinful activities? So the priestly class, they will not also say, they will not discuss, everyone is silent. That means deliberately, I mean to say, disobeying Ten Commandments. So where is religious principle? If you don't obey the commandments of your scripture does it mean that you are following a religion nicely? How you can kill which you cannot create? And it is plainly stated there, "Thou shall not kill." What is the answer? Why they are killing? What is the answer?
Journalist: No. I understand what you are saying. What confuses me or makes it... When I say, me, and so many of our readers. ...is why is it...? Let me ask the question again. Let me ask it maybe to become clear in my mind. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but let me say it this way. Are you saying that if your mission and the mission of the Jewish, Christian, western ethic is the same, again let me ask the same question, why is it that the younger people or people in general, are disenchanted, are trying to go towards the eastern-oriented religion if their aim or premise is the same as the western. Why are they going toward the eastern if the premise is the same?
Prabhupāda: Because these Christian people, they are not teaching them practically. I am teaching them practically.
Journalist: In other words, you're teaching them what you feel is a practical, every day, daily method of obtaining this fulfillment of man's spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How to... The love of Godhead is being taught by Bible or Old Testament and Gītā, that is all right. But you are not teaching them how to love God. I am teaching them how to love God. That is the difference. Therefore young people are attracted.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (4): I think if there is so much fear being preached in Christianity originally the Old Testament was the testament of the vengeful God and the New Testament was supposed to be the love of Christ. So if there is so much fear being preached it seems to be a reflection of individual consciousness more than the religion. They are preaching so much fear, it would seem to stem from their own activities, that maybe they do have this fear rather than the true reflection of the religion that Christ was teaching. He was supposedly (indistinct) to take up the sins of his disciples and to help them lead the nice life and lead them back. He said, he referred to them as his flock. So he was taking the role of a protector and yet the Christians you speak to, they talk about hanging you over hell by a thin thread that can be burnt away at any second. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: He said the Christians... (break)
Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they say the Christian religion is very good. Very good means that Lord Jesus Christ has taken contract for absorbing all their sins and they go on committing. Is that not idea in the Christian religion?
Devotee: Yes.
Devotee (1): They say all our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You, you, you think that to kill an animal is no sin?
Cardinal Danielou: No, no, no. No sin. No sin. No sin. Because we think that the simple biologic life is not sacred. That is, what is sacred is the human life, the human life. But not the life, ass.
Prabhupāda: But I think that it is interpretation. Jesus Christ says generally: "Thou shalt not kill."
Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Jesus said, but this phrase is not, the text is not a text of Jesus. It is a text of the Old Testament, and it is a text...
Prabhupāda: No, it is New Testament also.
Cardinal Danielou: Old Testament! Old Testament.
Prabhupāda: No, is it not in the New Testament?
Cardinal Danielou: It is in the Levitic, in the Levitic, in the book of the Levitic.
Prabhupāda: Ahhh.
Cardinal Danielou: It is not a word of Jesus. It is a word of the Levitic, and it is a part of the decalogue of the Ten Commandments what God gave to Moses.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But Ten Commandments, one of the Commandments is that: "Thou shalt no kill."
Yogeśvara: (French)
Cardinal Danielou: (French) Mais, it is surely, I think, it is surely the killing of the man. I think, I have a great difficulty to understand why in Indian religion... Because it is impossible... By example, it is necessary, pour la nourriture?
Yogeśvara: For food.
Cardinal Danielou: Oui. For the food of man to eat, to eat, and...
Prabhupāda: Man can eat grains, food grains, fruits, milk, sugar, wheat...
Cardinal Danielou: Not, not, (French)?
Yogeśvara: No flesh?
Cardinal Danielou: No flesh?
Prabhupāda: No. Why? Just like the fruits. The fruits are meant for human being. The tiger does not come to eat your fruits. So tiger's food is another animal. Man's food is fruit, food grains, milk products. Just like fruit...
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes. I understand. It is why because grain and plants are also living beings.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, that's all right.
Cardinal Danielou: Living beings.
Prabhupāda: That, that we also understand. But if, if you cannot live... Just like, generally, if I can live on fruits and grains and milk, why should I kill another animal?
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you try to trace out when the human being began calling "mother." Can you trace out the history?
Śyāmasundara: They try to take away from the Vedas by making it seem very young so that the Bible is older. They think that Vedas came from Bible, many scholars.
Prabhupāda: Oh? These rascals think like that?
David Lawrence: Yes, you see they say that the, because the Āryans came from or passed through at least the Middle East, that in fact some of the older parts of the Old Testament predate, so they say, and indeed some of the Egyptian higher, some of the better Egyptian stuff...
Prabhupāda: So one should transcend these, what is called, historical references.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pañcadraviḍa: ...that these Old and New Testament and Koran, they are the śāstras of the (sic:) yauvanas. They are not the same as the Vedic śāstras. They are not as... They are not bona fide like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: Does this mean they are not authentic or... How did they come here?
Prabhupāda: Who?
Pañcadraviḍa: These Bible and Koran, how did they get here? They were just inventions or what?
Prabhupāda: Convention means they are partially good for the time being, that's all. They are not eternally... Just like in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." (chuckles) But this is not, does not come within the category of eternal religion. People were so corrupted that they were forbidden, "No, don't do this." "Thou shalt not covet," a little moral instruction. That also, they could not follow. There is no religion. And little God consciousness, "There is God, kingdom of God," little idea for the persons who could understand. Otherwise, do you think that if somebody says, "Thou shalt not kill," is that any religious principle? It is ordinary thing. Where is the question of God?
Pañcadraviḍa: These things, they are also in (sic:) Manu-saṁhitā?
Prabhupāda: That is for... Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural.
Pañcadraviḍa: But when Jesus said, "Thou shalt not kill," he meant humans; he did not mean animals.
Prabhupāda: That is your interpretation.
Akṣayānanda: But Jesus was a shepherd and there were many, many sheep. What did they do with all the sheep?
Prabhupāda: They eat?
Pañcadraviḍa: They must.
Prabhupāda: They must. That is your inference.
Pañcadraviḍa: What else...? In the middle of desert...? Babylon, Israel is all desert country. What will they do with sheep? They are not making wool coats.
Prabhupāda: Then why he has said, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then hypocrisy. Then you reject Jesus complete. He is a hypocrite. Yes. That is the conclusion. How can you follow hypocrite? Huh? Is that all right? If Jesus Christ himself killed animals and he said, "Thou shalt not kill," then he is a hypocrite. Then he cannot preach. He is a hypocrite. You are bringing Christ for condemnation. But how a hypocrite can be the head or can be the religious man or can be...
Akṣayānanda: It is not that we are saying he is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: He is proving.
Akṣayānanda: He himself, the Christian is saying that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Akṣayānanda: So why is he following?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: They still eat the sheep.
Satsvarūpa: The main thing they usually say is that kill means murder. That man at Bhaktivedanta Manor, that priest, he said the original Hebrew, the word means "murder." So this is an instruction to mankind not to murder, but it is not... But they have other places in the scripture where they point out that the animal is allowed for man to eat. So they just were showing us their scriptures.
Prabhupāda: It is said, "It is murder."
Satsvarūpa: Yes, that "Thou shalt not murder." That it has been changed to "kill."
Prabhupāda: Originally it was murder?
Satsvarūpa: That is what that priest said to you in Bhaktivedanta Manor.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, he may say. What was previously, we are not concerned. But you have left already this Jewish Old Testament. You have got New Testament. You are not Jewish. So why do you bring that Jewish for your defense? You have already rejected it.
Pañcadraviḍa: But they say we accept both Old and New Testament. The Christians do not say we only have New Testament. They say we accept the old and the new.
Prabhupāda: Then why you have changed?
Pañcadraviḍa: Because the Old Testament never mentions Christ, but the New Testament is all about Christ.
Prabhupāda: Then it is rejected. If you have changed the tenets of Old Testament, that means you have rejected.
Pañcadraviḍa: No, not changed. In Old Testament the messiaḥ, he is predicted, but activities of the messiaḥ, they are not given.
Prabhupāda: The question is the Old Testament, you say that there was the word "murder." Why you have changed? You accept Old Testament or reject?
Satsvarūpa: Accept the statement should be "murder."
Prabhupāda: But why it is "kill"?
Pañcadraviḍa: Wrong translation.
Prabhupāda: Wrong translation.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: :They are fools, all set of fools. Useless. See one thing and write one thing. Then you are not perfect. Bhrama pramāda. You commit mistake. Therefore your instruction is useless, useless. Because you commit mistake, therefore your instruction is useless. And that actually they are doing. As it is suitable, they are changing the words of Bible. They are useless. Things which are changeable, that cannot be accepted as scripture. Scriptural injunction means you cannot change. Just like we accept the Vedic scripture but don't change it. That example I have given many times. Because Lord Buddha wanted to change Vedic literature, therefore he is rejected. Although Lord Buddha is so... We worship him as incarnation of..., but he was rejected. You cannot change. Immediately you are rejected.
Vedavyāsa: He says from the Old Testament that Jesus said, "Hallowed be Thy name," so he didn't say a particular name because, he says, God has actually no name because if we...
Prabhupāda: So how He can be no name? He says, "Hallowed be Thy name." He has name. Therefore he says like that.
Vedavyāsa: But there's no name in the Bible...
Prabhupāda: That doesn't mean... He might not have mentioned or you have not noted. But when he says, "Hallowed be Thy name," there must be the name. Therefore I said if you don't know the name, you take it from us. That is intelligence. Why should you say that there is no name. He says the "Hallowed be Thy name." There must be name but you do not know.
Vedavyāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bible there are a lot of statements regarding chanting, instructions that people should chant the holy name of God. Like in the Old Testament it says from the morning to evening you should chant the holy name of God.
Prabhupāda;: Yes. That is the business in this age. Chant the holy name of God.
Professor Durckheim: Whatever you do, do in the name of Jesus Christ, the Bible...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You take this in the name of Jesus Christ.
Pater Emmanuel: (German) It is in the relation of man. "Don't kill," it says, the Christianity understands...
Prabhupāda: Why they understand like that? That means that Lord Christ was not sufficiently educated to use the right word, "murder"? Does it mean so? There are two words, killing and murder. Murder is especially meant for the human being. So do you think that Christ was not learned enough to use the word murder instead of "killing"? "Killing" means any kind of killing, especially animal killing. Otherwise you should have frankly openly used the word, "Thou shall not murder." Even if it is meant like that, so does it mean that he was preaching amongst the murderers? They are very first-class men? They are all murderers? Therefore the injunction. This kind of interpretation does not appeal to us. (German)
German devotee: He said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this commandment, "Thou shall not kill," is found in the Old Testament, and when Jesus was talking...
Prabhupāda: I do not know many testament, but I see in the Ten Commandments these words are there. If you want to support it by many testaments, that is, of course, your business, but we take the direct meaning, "Thou shall not kill"—the Christians should not kill. Interpretation you can give in your own way to support your business, but we see openly. If we can understand openly, there is no need of interpretation.
Prabhupāda: What are the qualifications of a brāhmaṇa. Symptoms.
Satsvarūpa:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: This is first quality man.
Reverend Powell: Well, there's a great similarity, isn't there, to the fruits of the holy spirit in the New Testament, with these qualities you've just...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. When, when one is qualified with all these attributes and he acts accordingly, then he is first-class man.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (6): I am servant of God. He is my life. Without Him, I can't live. I understand what you're saying, but I believe that our tradition from the Old Testament says that we were created by God.
Prabhupāda: In one sense we are created, just like father creates the sons, not the sons create the father. In that sense we are created. (pause) So taking this word, that "sons were created," so the father existed before our creation. So He is not of the same quality again.
Guest (6): It's a mystery. We can only bow down before Him then.
Prabhupāda: That is our business. (laughter) This word, "creation," is applicable in this material world. In the spiritual world there is no creation, the father and the son existing eternally. When we come to this material world... Material world means it has got beginning, and it has got end. And spiritual world means there is no beginning, no end. That is sanātana, eternal.
Young man (2): There is no form given for God. It's spiritual.
Prabhupāda: The description must be there.
Girl: He's a human being. He's got a human form.
Prabhupāda: That I am asking, what is the form?
Young man: Well, the only thing... It just says that He created man after His own image. So...
Prabhupāda: That is the Christian idea.
Young man: Yeah. And the...
Prabhupāda: The Mohammedan, Islam is also same idea?
Young man: Well, since the Old Testament, part of the Old Testament, is very similar to the Koran, I presume the creation of Adam, that bit, is also taken from the Old Testament. But He is projected as a great judge really, a supreme judge.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He must be the supreme judge because He is Supreme Being. So He is not only... Supreme judge means supreme knowledge.
Young man: Yes. Somehow in modern religion they very much emphasize on the fact that He judges. And I could never accept that idea for example, that the Supreme Being judges, because judging is a low activity. It's a... Spiritual people don't judge. So how come...
Prabhupāda: Spiritual...?
Young man: Leader.
Prabhupāda: They do not judge?
Young man: That's what I thought.
Prabhupāda: No, judgment is there everywhere. Unless there is judgment, how you can discriminate, "This is spiritual; this is material"? Judgment must be there for intelligent person. Otherwise how you can distinguish? We are distinguishing every moment—"This is good. This is bad"—in the relative world. So there is judgment. So God—the supreme judge. So as soon as there is question of judgment, then what is our position? There must be good and bad, so that if we have lived a very nice, good life, then by the judgment of God we get better position. And if we have not done so, then you get degraded position. Therefore, for human being it is very sanguine to understand how we are going to be judged by the Supreme. So if we are following the rules and regulation given by God, then the judgment will be better.
Trivikrama: If Christ was the son of God, the good son, how is that he didn't, he never mentioned Kṛṣṇa by name? Sometimes they criticize us like that: "Why is there no mention of Kṛṣṇa in the Christian Bible?"
Prabhupāda: He might not have mentioned, but why there are twelve names in the Bible?
Pañcadraviḍa: That's Old Testament. That's not Christ...
Prabhupāda: The name is there.
Acyutānanda: And Christ, Prabhupāda has...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The point is that just like when you're...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all, one should be answered.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm going to answer his point.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The answer to his point is that just as there's a president of the United States, so when someone is talking about the president, according to how intimate that person is, you discuss different subject matters. For example, if the person is just a common person, a regular person, you may discuss about the president's powers in the government. But when you meet someone who actually is intimately connected with the president, then you describe the president's family, how the president's family is doing, what is the president doing in his time of relaxation, etc. So similarly, Jesus was speaking to persons who were not very intimate with God. They were not so much spiritually advanced. Therefore, for those persons, simply the power and glory of God is mentioned in the Bible. But Kṛṣṇa, the description of Kṛṣṇa in the Bhāgavatam, is meant for the pure devotees. And for them the very detailed, intimate description of Kṛṣṇa is given there.
Prajāpati: Each of these big theologians has a specific area of specialization. For example, I took a course, when I was a student in the School of Theology, in the New Testament, hoping to learn scriptures, but instead, the entire semester was spent trying to decide which of the books of the Bible came first—the Book of Matthew or the Book of Mark? And they had very detailed ways of what they called "form criticism," taking a particular passage and checking it, seeing...
Acyutānanda: Right. What is their method?
Pañcadraviḍa: Why did you say you joined? What was it? I mean what was it you were trying to study? You said...
Prajāpati: I went three years to a school of theology.
Pañcadraviḍa: But that particular course?
Prajāpati: This was a course in the New Testament.
Pañcadraviḍa: So why, why did you say you took it?
Prajāpati: To study the śāstra, to study the scriptures. What was being said. Instead...
Acyutānanda: No, what was their method for examining their material, research?
Prajāpati: The material research is taking, finding certain forms, certain sentence construction, grammar, and comparing it with other passages in the scriptures as opposed to that grammar, to see if the form is the same, to see, to determine by different criteria which came first, which is earlier.
Acyutānanda: So after...
Prabhupāda: No, their...
Acyutānanda: Since St. Paul did they find out...
Prabhupāda: That is academic. That is not theology.
Devotee (1): God created the earth, in the Bible. God started on a Monday. He created the earth. It says in the Bible in the Old Testament that it took Him seven days, or six days, and on the seventh day He rested. But still there is some dispute whether He started on a Sunday or a Monday. So the Jewish, the Hebrews, they hold the Sabbath on a Saturday, and the Christians and the Catholics they have the Sabbath on the Sunday. But on the seventh day God rested after creating the heavens and the earths.
Śrutakīrti: It was always very bad to engage in any type of work on the Sabbath day. It was used only to glorify the Lord.
Paramahaṁsa: For fishing.
Amogha: Not any more. Now the post office is closed on Saturday and open all day on Sunday in Perth.
Prabhupāda: They have changed?
Amogha: Yes. They are open on the Sabbath.
Prabhupāda: My point is: if the moon is the first planet nearer, why they did not start Monday? If the sun is after, then Sunday. This is the proof that first sun, then moon, not that first moon and then sun. Hm? That is the description in the Bhāgavatam. One after another, one after another. Sixteen thousand, sixteen hundred thousand miles apart. First of all sun, then moon, then, what is called? Mars. You have seen it.
Devotee (4): Prabhupāda, what can you say to someone who says, "Lord Jesus fed thousands of people fish"? What can you tell them?
Prabhupāda: If there is nothing available, what can be done? But when you have got such orange, such nice fruits, and rice and dahl and milk, why should you eat fish? After all, you have to eat something. If such nice foods are not available, you can eat fish. But when very nice foods are available, why should you? In other place Christ said that "These vegetables should be your meat," like that?
Satsvarūpa: In Genesis, the very beginning of the Old Testament. "The plants shall be your meat."
Prabhupāda: One must eat something. The nature's law is that sahastānā... Sahastānām ahastāni. And catuṣ-padam. That is the arrangement by nature's way, that animals, they have no hands. So the primitive life, so they become food for the primitive natives or uncivilized man. They kill some animals and eat. And why civilized man do so? He can produce his food. God has given him land. He has intelligence. Just like our temple commander was telling us. He has got immense opportunity... Just explain to them about you are producing with the farm.
Dr. Patel: Even Christianity considers His ākāra—"God has form."
Prabhupāda: No, Mohammed also has got... Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued in Koran. He proved there is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. He proved with the Pathans. Yes.
Dr. Patel: Otherwise the Christianity is just our way, I mean, absolutely Vaisnavism. It has been wrongly preached and wrongly initiated in India. That is why it has fallen to disrepute. Otherwise Christianity is just Vaiṣṇava-dharma. Nothing else, to my mind, the way I have studied, I mean the New Testament and all the Christian, all the things. Now, the sermon of Christ is nothing but the preaching of Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: I never criticized. I simply said that positive side, God consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness totally.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness in toto, absolute.... There cannot be a higher bhakta than that. It is said that Jesus Christ learned all these things in India. It might be a fact?
Passerby: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: And he daily bhakta. (?) He came for pūjā, for guru.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Formerly there was no civilization. Therefore like monkey.
Prabhupāda: "They think." That is their… We don’t "think." We have got millions of years' history. Why we shall think with them, with these rascals? They may think, the rascal. A child may think like something, but a elderly man will not think like that. Because they are thinking like that, we have to think with them?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? Because the rascals are thinking in some way, we have to believe that? First of all let them prove that they are sane men. They are all insane rascals. Why shall I take their words? We are taking words from Kṛṣṇa, who is accepted the Supreme by all the ācāryas, all the great sages. Why shall I go to this rascal Darwin? We are not so fools. We cannot accept.
Harikeśa: Well, the Bible is just some story. I mean, the Bible is just some story. Why should we believe that all of a sudden there was…
Prabhupāda: No, Bible is not authorized because it was compiled after Jesus Christ finished.
Harikeśa: No, the Bible was there… Old Testament has been there for thousands of years.
Prabhupāda: Old Testament, but what is going on, Bible…
Harikeśa: That Genesis, where it says the creation…
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Harikeśa: That's just some story. Why should we believe it? There's nothing else to believe. Why not believe this Darwin?
Prabhupāda: No, but you are not believing Bible. Bible, they say that the earth is square. So nobody is believing. So one point is sufficient, that it is not perfect. One point is sufficient.
Dr. Patel: Christ, sir, really taught absolutely bhāgavata-dharma. The way... All his sayings, the New Testament and his Sermon on Mount, all is absolutely Bhāgavata. I have studied it very, in great detail and compared the two myself. So Christ was the greatest Hindu, to tell the truth. But as those people in the Middle East were heathens and absolutely junglis, they crucified him. Had he been here he would have been a big saint and avatāra.
Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.
Dr. Patel: Came to Kashmir. There is a tomb in Kashmir. I read some literature about it. His resurrection... They say that they smuggled him out of that cave. It is possible. When he was on the cross, he...
Prabhupāda: No, even by yoga system...
Dr. Patel: He must have gone in a trance.
Prabhupāda: He lived by trance.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Scheverman: Many of these expressions that you are reading sound very similar to what we call the "Wisdom Literature" of the Old Testament of our Bible, of Syrac and Ecclesiastics and Ecclesiasticus, and also, of course, some of the sayings of Jesus are very close to what you're saying here. Jesus said "Seek first the kingdom of heaven, and all these other things will be added besides." That's the first-class man, who's constantly working toward the kingdom. "Blessed are the poor in spirit, blessed are the meek" and so on.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. If there is a first class, set a first-class man on the head of the society, then everything will be done properly.
Kern: In the Mass today Jesus said "You must be perfected as your heavenly father is perfect."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice.
Correspondence
1970 Correspondence
Regarding New Testament, we can simply agree that the New Testament accepts God is great and the creation came into existence by His Word. I do not know the details of New Testament, but I know so far that it is stated there that all creation is made by God. So this statement is Vedic statement. In the Vedanta philosophy also the same thing is stated that the Supreme Brahman is the cause of all creation, maintenance and destruction.
So on the whole if anyone accepts that God is greater than everyone and nobody is equal to Him, then we welcome such statement. And if he is sober and intelligent then he will try to learn from Vedic literature how God is greater than everyone and nobody is equal to Him. This knowledge is very clearly defined beginning from the Bhagavad-gita. So if you meet such persons who are staunch Christians you can humbly put this argument before them for consideration. But if somebody is dogmatic and blind follower, then avoid to discuss with him. Better spend that time for enlightening a person who is innocent. Do not try to enter into the details of New Testament, but simply say that we agree on the principle that God is great.
| Page Title: | Old and New Testaments - Bible |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika |
| Created: | 23 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=1, CC=3, OB=0, Lec=4, Con=21, Let=2 |
| No. of Quotes: | 31 |