Prabhupāda: Now, in the material world we have got so many contradictions, but that contradiction is there also in the Absolute Truth. Just like fighting. Fighting is not a very good thing, but still, the fighting spirit is there in the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, how fighting can be exhibited? So the theory, nonviolence... Nonviolence is not absolute. Nonviolence and violence, everything is there in the Absolute Truth. But in the Absolute Truth, either nonviolence or violence, they are absolute. Here we have got bad effects of violence, but when violence is performed by the Absolute, it has no bad effect, it has good effect. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and Arjuna was denying to fight but Kṛṣṇa was asking him to fight. So the fighting was good because it was the will of the Absolute Personality of Godhead. Therefore at the end of understanding Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna agreed, "Yes, I shall fight." So fighting for the matter of executing the desire of the supreme will is also absolute. It is not different from Absolute Truth.
Nonviolence (Conversations and Letters)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But that frustration has no disappointment. (laughter) That is the beauty. Just like Lord Caitanya is manifesting that spiritual frustration. "Oh Kṛṣṇa, I could not see You." He's jumping on the sea in frustration. But that frustration is the highest perfection of love. Yes. Everything is there. But without inebriety. You are very intelligent boy. I thank you. Yes. Yes. There is frustration, but not this frustration. Yes. That frustration, I mean to say, enriches one's eagerness of love for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is there, but without inebriety. Everything is there. Yes. Now see, Viṣṇu? Of course, in Vaikuṇṭha-jagat there is no violence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you take... Style may be different. That's all right. Besides that, to maintain your body and soul together, you require eating, you require sleeping, you require mating, you require defense. We don't say that you don't do this. Kṛṣṇa was... Arjuna was defending. Rather, he wanted to be nonviolent. "Oh, what is the use of fighting?" Kṛṣṇa said, "No. It is required. You should." So where is the difference? There is no difference. Simply we are adjusting things so that you may become happy. Any intelligent man will take it. We are not prohibiting, but we are adjusting. So there is no difficulty. Simply intelligent persons like you should try to understand and take it and administer because your country is wanting this.
Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya's conclusion was to defeat Buddhism. They do not know it, but actually, when there was too much animal-killing and people became almost atheist under the shadow of Vedic rituals, Lord Buddha appeared. He wanted to stop men from the sinful activities of killing unnecessarily under the plea of Vedas. So he invented that ahiṁsa, nonviolence. And... Because people will give evidence, "Oh, in the Vedas there is..." They are not following, actually, the Vedic rituals, but just like crooked lawyers take advantage of law books, similarly... Therefore, Lord Buddha said that "I do not follow Vedic rituals. I have nothing to do with Vedas. It is my own formula." So Jayadeva has written one prayer because the Vaiṣṇavas can understand how God is playing. So he writes, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ: "My dear Lord, now You have appeared as Lord Buddha. You are decrying the Vedic rituals." Śruti-jātaṁ. Śruti-jātaṁ means Vedic. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya-darṣita-paśu-ghātam: "You are so much compassionate to see poor animals being killed unnecessarily." Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "All glories to Jagadīśa. You have now assumed the form of Lord Buddha, and You are playing in pastimes." So Lord Buddha is accepted as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. In Bhāgavata also it is stated. He is accepted as the tenth incarnation.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We never... The Bhagavad-gītā never says that when enemy attacks, you become nonviolent. No, no. Never. Rather, Gandhi said that "Yes, I shall..." Somebody asked Gandhi that "If in your presence your wife or your daughter is ravaged, what you will do?" That question was there, actually. But he said that "I say nonviolence upon..."
Guest (2): No, no, no. Another part. Then he said, "I'll hit him back." On that condition. He said, "If that comes all right, hit him back."
Prabhupāda: He said that.
Prabhupāda: Who sets fire in my home and who wants to kill me, they're called ātatāyinaḥ. So they should be immediately killed. There's no question of nonviolent. And if the Vaiṣṇava is insulted, he should be killed immediately. That is also, Caitanya Mahāprabhu who advised that we should be humbler than the grass, but practically when Nityānanda Prabhu was insulted, He immediately wanted to kill Jagāi and Mādhāi. So these messages...
Guest: This has touched people.
Prabhupāda: Ha, ha.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. Kṛṣṇa does not say sit idly. Neither Arjuna was advised like that. Neither... Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent, sit idly. Kṛṣṇa never did so. Kṛṣṇa said, "Oh, you fight. You are kṣatriya. It is your duty." And in order to raise him to that fighting position, this position, He taught him Bhagavad-gītā. So don't think that Kṛṣṇa bhaktas are idle, sitting only. No. That is mistaken idea. Kṛṣṇa bhakta can do anything under the direction of Kṛṣṇa.
Reporter: You are not escapists?
Prabhupāda: No.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That nonviolence. Kṛṣṇa is number one violent. (chuckles) Number one. There is no limit of His violence. Just see.
Yadubara: Don't you have... In the material world, sometimes you have to stand up for what you think is right and sometimes use violence?
Prabhupāda: Only satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa is right. All wrong. If Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, that is right. Otherwise everything wrong.
Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Gītā.
Prabhupāda: The demons. Demons. Demons. Just like Lord Rāmacandra fought with the demons, so similarly, Kṛṣṇa conscious person will fight with the demons. That is already there. Demons and demigod always fight. Devāsura-yuddha, you know? That is history. We don't say that fighting should be stopped. We don't say that. We don't say that becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, nonviolence. That is bogus. In Delhi when there was not..., declaration of war between Pakistan and India, press representative came: "Swamiji, what is your opinion about this fight?" I said, "You must fight." And it was published in the paper. It gave some agitation. They were glad. I said, "You must fight." And that was published in big letters in... So we are not that kind of sādhu and Vaiṣṇava, that we don't take care of practical things. When there is need of fight, we shall fight.
Prabhupāda: So, in this way... Of course soldiers killing and ordinary killing is not the same, but my point is that..., that God gives you the law that you shall not kill. Now if..., if you are violating that law, then how you can become religious? That is my question.
Guest (1): Grace is, is nonviolence, nonkilling.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Guest (1): That is part of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Anything which can be engaged in the service of the Lord should not be given up. This is our philosophy. Should not be given up. We do not say, "Oh, money is material. I do not touch. My hand becomes turned up." No. We don't say all these nonsense philosophy. (laughs) We know that money, lakṣmī, is Kṛṣṇa's property, so it should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Why money should not be touched? Money is Kṛṣṇa's. It must be touched and used for Kṛṣṇa. We don't try to (indistinct) that pseudo renouncement. What I have got that I shall renouncement? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Our renouncement means we renounce our personal sense gratification, that's all. That is renouncement. Materialism means personal sense gratification, and spiritual life means no personal sense gratification, all Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That's all. The same teaching by Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna was thinking in terms of personal sense gratification: "I shall not fight. It is not good to kill my kinsmen, my brother." That was personal sense gratification. From ordinary point of view people will say, "How Kṛṣṇa is..., Arjuna is nice, that he's giving up his claim, and nonviolent."
Devotee: He said that the message of Bhagavad-gītā is nonviolence.
Prabhupāda: That is all. Opposite. Whatever message it is... He was supposed to be a very good scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. His photograph is with the Bhagavad-gītā. But he did not speak a single word that "You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." He talked so many nonsense. All others... The real Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me." Nobody says, neither Tilak, Gandhi, this Ramakrishna, this Aravindo. Nobody says that. He's made purposefully avoiding his duty. And these rascals are going as dutiful. His duty was to say as Kṛṣṇa says, if he is actually student of Bhagavad-gītā. Here is Kṛṣṇa saying that you surrender, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are doing that. We are not speaking something nonsense. We are speaking, "Here Kṛṣṇa says surrender. You surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Simple thing. We don't manufacture duty. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Our duty is to say people, "Here Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 18.65). You become His devotee, you always think of Him, you offer Him obeisances." Our simple duty.
Prabhupāda: That I have explained. Just like Arjuna, who was a fighter, warrior, means he fought for Kṛṣṇa. For himself, he was hesitating. He put all these questions that "If I kill my brothers, then their wives will be widow, and they will be prostitutes and there will be varṇa-saṅkara, and then there will be no piṇḍa-dāna and then the whole nation will go to hell," in this way, as he could think. But he was not thinking in terms of Kṛṣṇa. He was thinking in terms of his own benefit, "whether I shall go to hell or heaven." That was his contemplation. Therefore he was taught Bhagavad-gītā. And after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he agreed to Kṛṣṇa's proposal. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā: (BG 18.73) "Now my illusion is gone. I have got my real consciousness, so I shall fight." So the fighting was Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when he was trying to become nonviolent, very benevolent to the family, he was chastised by Kṛṣṇa. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādām: (BG 2.11) "You are talking like a very learned man but you are fool." So this is our position. We may talk very learned, scholarly, but if we have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we are subjected to the chastisement. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). So this is the position. So nothing is bad if it is engaged for the service of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, however good it may be in the estimation of material conception, it is the cause of bondage, good or bad. It doesn't matter. So you have to learn the art, how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That art you have to learn. Then your life is perfect.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way.
Prabhupāda: That is warned by Śaṅkarācārya. Vivekananda lamented at the end of his life, that "I have simply wasted my life." He admitted, "I have not given anything." Bālakānām. He was after this body, and he was recorded, government record, as political sannyāsī. Yes. He had political purpose, but was acting as a sannyāsī. Just like Gandhi, "Saintly statesman." He is recorded, "Saintly statesman." He's a statesman, politician, but he was introducing some morality, non-violence, like that. Actually, his philosophy failed. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity, but it was divided. The Muslim and Hindu divided. He wanted non-violence. He died out of violence. Therefore all his philosophy failed. And Indian independence was achieved not by Gandhi's non-violence method but (by) Subhas Bose's violence method. And he wanted to explain nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Just see, another foolishness. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and he was screwing some meaning to prove his nonviolence.
Prabhupāda: It is very nice. It is, what is called, nonviolent. We ask everyone, "Come and join." You saw our procession yesterday?
David Wynne: No, I didn't. I wasn't there.
Prabhupāda: I see. Many thousand people joined us. From two o'clock up to eight o'clock. Six hours. At last, the police had to ask them to go away. Is it not? Who told me that? Eh?
Mukunda: I didn't know. I know they were...
Prabhupāda: They were not leaving Trafalgar Square. So it is a very nice movement, very serious movement. You are known to so many big, big men. Try to induce them to understand this serious movement. If leading takes something seriously, others follow.
Schumacher: Well, I think one should try and do without it. You can't everywhere do without it. It's like all nonviolence. It's a direction of movement, to try to do your utmost to go as far as...
Revatīnandana: So wherever possible, the slaughtering business should not go on.
Schumacher: That's right. But the Eskimos, for instance...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Schumacher: That's what I was saying, you see.
Prabhupāda: When there is no food, so human life is more important than animal life. So the human life should be saved at the sacrifice of animals. That is another question. But where there is complete facilities to get very nice, nutritious food, why these poor animals should be killed?
Prabhupāda: That's it. Yes. That's a fact. Yes, why you should try to introduce your philosophy... Now, say, for Gandhi's non-violence. Where is non-violence in Bhagavad-gītā.
Ambassador: (laughs.) It's... Yeah, this is true. Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, dharmo 'hiṁsā tathaiva ca. (?)
Prabhupāda: So our, our point is that you may express your own op... Everyone has got right to... Especially Mahatma Gandhi, he was actually a great personality. There is no doubt about it. But so far Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, he did not know anything. But from his behavior, it was seen that at heart he was a devotee. Yes. At heart he was a devotee.
Hṛdayānanda: Well, then they will say that everyone... The Christians would say that they're on the top step, and the Buddhists say they're on the top step.
Prabhupāda: No, they may say, but if Kṛṣṇa is God, what He says, that we'll have to accept, what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior than Me." That you have to accept. Everyone will say, "I am very good." But is that the fact, that everyone is very good? There is comparative, superlative degrees. Just like shopkeepers, they say, "All my goods are good." They are competition. One has to judge. That comparative study... What the highest Buddha philosophy? Ahiṁsā. Ahiṁsā, nonviolence. That is our preliminary study. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). There are many other things after ahiṁsā. They do not know this.
Prabhupāda: Well, in politics, unless there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose. So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that—and that is a fact—that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory. I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47, the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the political power. He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he though that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese.
Prabhupāda: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible. They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see? They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees laugh) So in politics this is nonsense, non-violence. It is nonsense, cowardism. In politics in sweet words you cannot get. There must be fight, arms. That is army. "If you don't agree, then fist." That is politics. There must be violence. Otherwise you cannot control. When there is educated good men, then you can argue. But when people are ruffians, there is no question of good... Argumentum vaculum, I told you the other day... (break) ...in the beginning of creation, the fight between the demons and the demigods, devāsura-yuddha. That is always there. In the European history, without revolution, no order changes. Even the Russian Revolution was there. French revolution was there. In England, Cromwell? Cromwell? Cromwell Revolution?
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Yes.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bali Mardana: "There are many things, but I can, but you cannot, I have to tell you, but you cannot bear them now."
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that means he's first-class, but he comes to the second-class platform or third-class platform to teach the third-class, second-class person. He's first class. Son of God cannot be second-class or third-class. He must be first-class. But... Just like Lord Buddha. He's God Himself, but He said nothing about God because he knew that "These rascals, they will not be able to... Let them stop meat-eating, that's all. Let them become sinless first of all; then they will be able..." So his main preaching was ahiṁsā, non-violence, no meat-eating. But still, they violate that. Jesus Christ also preached, "Thou shall not kill," but these rascals, all violating. And still, they are proclaiming as Christian and Buddhist. No religion will, real religion, will allow this kind of violence, no religion. It is cheating religion. Dharmaḥ kaitavaḥ: Any religion committing unnecessary violence to the animals, (it is) third-class. It is not religion, it is cheating. Simply cheating.
Prabhupāda: But if some of the kṣatriya or the śūdras, they want, so that is our prescription: "Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that." That's all. You can kill one boar. Some disturbing elements, you can kill. You can kill some tiger. Like that. Learn to kill. No nonviolence. Learn to kill. Here also, as soon as you'll find, the kṣatriya, a thief, a rogue, unwanted element in the society, kill him. That's all. Finish. Kill him. Bās. Finished. So other will see, "Oh, the ruler is very strong." And others will... One killing will be lesson for many hundreds and thousands. No mercy. "Kill him." That's all. That was the system. In Kashmir about hundred years ago. If somebody has stolen, cut his hand. Bās. He cannot steal any more. So one cutting hand means finish. In that part of the world, no more stealing.
Prabhupāda: Rajasthan. So the government is so rogue that hungry men they have come and we are firing. And the... Your sva-rāja was obtained by nonviolence. This is the result. Actually, you cannot expect any justice from this government.
Guest: One has to snatch the justice from them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You cannot stop that. Suppose you..., there are so many nonviolence philosophies, Buddha, Jains, but have they been able to stop this meat-eating?
Dr. Patel: The Vaiṣṇavas, they are to only perform those yajñas called...
Prabhupāda: Yajñas for satisfaction of Viṣṇu.
Indian man (3): And that, that is also... Viṣṇu-yajña is there, there is no sacrifice of animals.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you do not know, there is.
Guest (5): ...why the Jesus says you offer the other cheek? Which is better? Is the choice of us to be violent or nonviolent?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The persons to whom Jesus Christ taught, they were already fighting. Therefore his first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." They were already killers. You see? And Arjuna is a gentleman. He was thinking before killing. Therefore he has to be induced, "You kill like this." But they were already killers. Otherwise why Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill"? That means that society was accustomed to kill. (break) Yes, that (indistinct) circumstance.
Mr. Sar: Different persons on different occasions. Only the main occasions on which they serve. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...lence is violence. But Kṛṣṇa has got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnām vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So those who are duṣkṛtā, there is necessity of violence. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...surgical operation. Yes. When the...
Guest (6): Yeah, I was disturbed in the early morning. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...to have surgical operation, if the doctor says, "No, no, no, I have taken to non-violence. I cannot touch with knife," that is foolishness. (break) ...you, one must know. That, you take instruction from Kṛṣṇa; then you'll know when one thing should be used and one thing not be used.
Prabhupāda: Because he comes: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). That is kṣatriya's business. Sādhu protection (Hindi). This is kṣatriya's business. God has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. If you want to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā, it is difficult. (laughs) It is not possible. He says that "I have got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya..." Unless these two things are there, there cannot be establishment of real law and order. (break) ...everywhere, law and order. In spiritual also. Unless there is law and order, it is chaos. Law and order must be there.
Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...done not meant for Kṛṣṇa, that is for his own satisfaction. Just like Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent: "No, no, Kṛṣṇa. I cannot kill my kinsmen." That is a good proposal. But that was his satisfaction.
Guest (1): That is very correct.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was his satisfaction. But Kṛṣṇa wanted that "You must fight." And when he agreed to that, that is his perfection. Before that, he was trying to satisfy he.
Prabhupāda: That is described in the SB.., sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). Sammohāya, just to bewilder the atheist class of men. The atheist class of men, we're advocating "There is no God." So He appeared before them... And they were killing animals like anything. So Buddhadeva inaugurated the non-violence. So therefore He is God Himself, and He is teaching, "There is no God." This is rather cheating.
Prof. Regamay: Yes. Not teaching, but cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughing) So sometimes... Just like a child does not want to go to school. So the teacher says, "No, no, you don't require to go to... There is no need. But what do you see in your front?" "That's a cow." "Now, what is this?" "A leg." "Then what is next?" "Second leg." "What is this?" "Third leg." So he is teaching mathematics, but practically, he says, "You don't require go to school. You just count the legs of the cow, that's all." It is like that.
Prabhupāda: So he condemned, "No, no. I don't care for your Vedas." So he defied Vedic injunction. Because otherwise, he could not establish his theory of nonviolence. The violence, in a certain way, is recommended in the Vedas. So if he says, "No violence," then it is against Vedas. Therefore he had to declare, "No, no, I don't follow the Vedic injunction." And because he did not, he publicly declared that "I don't follow Vedic injunction," therefore he is taken as atheist. Atheist means who does not take the authority of the Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. But he did it. He is all-powerful. He can do it. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We worship him like that. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa. From philosophical point of view, he is taken as atheist. But we Vaiṣṇava we know that He is God. He is God, incarnation of God.
Prof. Regamay: Still, there are two questions I have which remain. One is quite a small question. I have read in your commentary to the chastisement of Droṇa, killing of Droṇa, and where it was that violence for a right cause is better than the so-called nonviolence. Now I wanted to ask, for instance, to find that nonviolence or like Gandhi, it was wrong...
Prabhupāda: Gandhi was not a man of spiritual under... He was a politician, that's all.
Prof. Regamay: Yes, but in his personal...
Prabhupāda: Gandhi, actually he did not know anything.
Prof. Regamay: Yes, he read Bhagavad-gītā in English.
Prabhupāda: That is also nonsense. There was no Kṛṣṇa. There was no Mahābhārata or Kurukṣetra. He has written like that.
Prof. Regamay: But nonviolence is not well in every case?
Prabhupāda: No, nonviolence... Actually that is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā. What do you mean by nonviolence. Because you are not this body. Suppose if I tear away your coat, does it mean that you are killed? So those who are in the bodily concept of life, "I am this body," for them, this kind of fighting or killing is violence. It is violence. But the thing is, there is sometimes necessity. Just like every state maintains the military force, the police force. What is this? The violence department. Required. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). Suppose you are attacked by some rogue, and if somebody comes and kills him, there is a necessity. It is natural. If you say that time nonviolence, it is foolishness. It is foolishness. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are rogues and, I mean to say, culprit, criminal, they should be killed. They should be stopped by violence. So violence is required sometimes. Violence is not bad, but it is not to be used ordinarily.
Prabhupāda: First of all, the thing is that our principle is vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are sinful rogues, to kill them. Now, we have to judge whether the fascist, he is sinful or the person attacking the fascist, he is sinful. If both of them are of the same category, then where to use violence or to use nonviolence? Now... Formerly, there was fight between nation to nation and now, we have seen in Italy—I was in Rome—now they are fighting amongst themselves.
Prof. Regamay: Awfully.
Prabhupāda: Amongst themselves. Now they will fight in the family. So people are becoming so degraded. They require all to be killed.
Prabhupāda: So the Buddhist religion so far we know, they are nonviolent.
Pṛthu Putra: (French)
Guest (1): (French)
Pṛthu Putra: This gentleman added tolerance.
Prabhupāda: Tolerance. If one is nonviolent, he must learn tolerance.
Pṛthu Putra: (French)
Prabhupāda: We pray Lord Buddha: Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. "My Lord, You, for the time being, You are decrying the Vedic authority."
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. But this higher class and lower class will continue to exist. Even it is existing in communistic countries. That cannot..., you cannot stop in this material world. The tendency is that everyone is thinking that he shall be the best enjoyer, best enjoyer. So this is called struggle for existence. Naturally, this higher class and lower class will remain. You cannot stop it. Even in communistic country, this Khrushchev was driven away. He was taking all advantages for his family, for himself. As soon as he got the post, he misused it. He gave his son-in-law very big post, his family members. That was detected, and he was charged that "You are using your influence, nepotism." Therefore, he was driven away. So this natural tendency, as soon as one gets power, he will try to utilize it. This psychology you cannot stop in the material world. That is not possible. That sacrificing spirit, that "My life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa," then it is possible. Otherwise, as soon as one will get some position and power, he will try to utilize it for his personal benefit. How you can stop it? It is like if you try to make the lion nonviolent. Is it possible? Why lion? Even an ant is violent. Even an ant it is violent. As soon as it gets opportunity, it will bite you. So this tendency of artificial supremacy means material life. That is material life.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Gandhi was a politician. What does he know about dharma? He was a politician. He thought it wise that British government is very strong... Before him so many political parties tried to become violent, and they were all curbed down. This Aurobindo also was a leader of anarchist party, and when he was condemned to death, then his senses came: "This is all useless. Let me engage in performing yoga." So Gandhi thought that before him all these violent movement was cast down by the British. So he took it as a method, nonviolence, noncooperation, and to capture the public of India-India is generally inclined religiously—he became a mahātmā. But mahātmā is different. A mahātmā is not interested in politics. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ-prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). That is mahātmā. Mahātmā has nothing to do with politics.
Prabhupāda: The trees are taken to be the most tolerant. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. There is an extreme example of tolerance, this tree life.
Dayānanda: In one of the purports in Bhāgavatam you mention that first comes humility, then nonviolence and then tolerance.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That wonderfulness is for the rascals and the fools. What wonderful he has done? He preached nonviolence, but he was killed by violence. That is his wonderful example. He preached the philosophy of nonviolence, which is impossible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa killed him by violence. This is his wonderful. And his foolishness was proved, that there cannot be nonviolence. So he was a fool.
Paramahaṁsa: But he himself was nonviolent.
Prabhupāda: Nonviol... That's alright, he was a fool. Therefore I say you cannot bring nonviolence in politics. There is no such history. Just like Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent. Kṛṣṇa chastized him, that you are a foolish number one. So... This is to bring a horse before a cart. Politics and nonviolence, it is incompatible. It is not possible. And he did it. Therefore he was a fool. Just like if you want to cook without fire. Is it possible?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupāda: So, this is foolishness. You become very bold enough, "Now I shall cook without fire." You are a rascal number one. Gandhi did it. Actually he could not drive away the Britishers by nonviolence, for thirty years, thirty-five years he struggled. When Subash Bose introduced violence, they were forced out. This is politics. Politics and nonviolence (incompatible). There is no history in the world that politics has been successful without violence, and he introduced this. So how much foolish he was, you can understand. It is same thing like that, if somebody says, "I'll cook without any. I shall scientifically do that a man can give birth to a child." There is no history, and if I say, "Now I shall do it. I shall see that equal rights. As a woman is giving birth to a child, the man will also will give child." These things are foolishness. This is not intelligence. The women are claiming equal rights. So, stop giving birth to a child? Then equal rights. Can it be possible? The man and woman unite, but the woman becomes pregnant, not the man.
Prabhupāda: No. Yes, when there is politics, that is necessary. I am speaking of politics, not of love. You cannot create love by violence. That is another thing. But if you want kingdom, there must be violence. By violence you cannot force a woman, agree to love you. That is not possible. Then there must be love. The business must be done accordingly. But when there is politics, there must be violence. Otherwise you cannot come out victorious. (break) ...in a friendly way. "Might is right." So Gandhi did this foolishness and he died of violence. (laughs) He praised the philosophy of nonviolence, but he was himself killed by violence. That was his foolishness.
Paramahaṁsa: But we have seen Lord Buddha, he conquered all of India with ahiṁsā, nonviolence, Lord Buddha.
Prabhupāda: Lord Buddha was not a politician.
Paramahaṁsa: But he conquered India. He became the most...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. He conquered India. If he con-quered India, why he is driven out of India? Nobody is Buddhist now in India. And in Japan, nearly also halfway, so that is (indistinct). Buddha's nonviolence and Gandhi's nonviolence is different.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Gandhi's nonviolence all rascaldom because he was dealing in politics. Buddha never entered in politics. So how you can compare with Buddha? His activities are different. His activity of false vibration(?), to stop all kinds of miseries of material world. That was his philosophy. He never dealt in politics. Although he was a king's son, he never dealt in politics. You cannot... This is foolishness. We do not know. We do not study what is Buddha's position, what is Gandhi's position.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. He was a good gentleman. He was very humble, meek. Because you have got some fault, that does not mean you have no qualities. That is another thing. But if you deal wrongly with something, then you must be called a foolish man. You may have very good qualities, but if you do not know how to deal with business, then you are foolish. He was mainly engaged in politics, but he did not know how to deal with politics. He was reading Bhagavad-gītā and he was misleading people that in the Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. Just see. Because Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent the whole Bhagavad-gītā was taught to him, how to become violent, and this rascal said that in the Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. It is not false? So a man preaching falsehood, is he a gentleman? Or he is a right man?
Paramahaṁsa: No.
Prabhupāda: So we shall remain like a child, being protected by our predecessor. Then there is no worries. And if you want to manufacture something of your concocted brain, then there is worries. Just like Gandhi. Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā, which is impossible. Therefore he had worries, because he wanted to prove something which is not in the Bhagavad-gītā, and still, he took Bhagavad-gītā as evidence.
Amogha: "This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost."
Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as you give up the ācārya-paramparā system, then it is lost. Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. All the ācāryas will say like that, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. And Dr. Radhakrishnan, "No, no, it is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see the fun. He has become more than the ācāryas. So we reject immediately. He thinks himself too proud that he defies the ācāryas. You see? This is the defect. The whole Bhagavad-gītā is spoken on the battlefield. Gandhi says it is nonviolence. Just see. (Dr. Copeland laughs) So we have to follow these people, do you mean to say?
Dr. Copeland: If you're measuring your success by the numbers of people, he had a lot of people too.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the followers of Lord Buddha are less intelligent than the followers of...
Prabhupāda: "Less" not. They are atheist class. So they will not understand what is God. So he said, "There is no God. You just hear me and become nonviolent." So his idea was, "Let this rascal first of all become nonviolent. Then they will be pure, and then they will understand."
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Nectar of Devotion you explain that there are three classes of devotees. And you say that the third-class devotee, he has belief but he cannot explain or give any support.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: This is knowledge. Etaj jñānam. The items prescribed by Kṛṣṇa, that is knowledge. And everything is no knowledge. Translation, you read.
Satsvarūpa: "Humility, pridelessness, nonviolence, tolerance, simplicity, approaching a bona fide spiritual master, cleanliness, steadiness and self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification, absence of false ego, the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease; nonattachment to children, wife, home and the rest, and evenmindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me, resorting to solitary places, detachment from the general mass of people, accepting the importance of self-realization, and philosophical search for the Absolute Truth—all these I thus declare to be knowledge,..."
Prabhupāda: This is knowledge, path of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Pridelessness. Everyone is proud. Then?
Satsvarūpa: Ahiṁsā, nonviolence.
Prabhupāda: Nonviolence. These are the first three steps toward the path of knowledge, and who is practicing this? Nobody is practicing. You are professor of?
Professor: Yes, I'm an instructor, yes.
Devotee: What subject matter?
Professor: In religious studies.
Prabhupāda: What is your definition of religion?
Professor: My definition of religion? I think religion has mostly to do with the kinds of questions people ask. Religion is the attempt to answer questions about "Who am I? and "Who is God?" and "How do I relate to God?"
Prabhupāda: That is nice. That is the meaning. So do the people in general know what is God?
Professor: People in general... Today most people have an idea, but they don't all agree. So you can't say that they all have an idea of God. But they all believe they do.
Prabhupāda: No, believing is different thing. You can believe anything. But God is one. So God is there, you believe or not believe. Just like the president of your state is there. One may say, "I don't believe in him." That does not mean there is no president. Similarly, a foolish man can say that there is no God, but that does not mean there is no God. There is God. Now who is that God?
Prabhupāda: No, that we shall consider. First of all we have to see that I learn that my position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So why I am put into this body which is hanyamāna? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Yes. (Hindi) They want to remain in darkness, and any leader who will keep him in the darkness in flowery language, he will be welcomed: "Oh, he is very good leader." "And this man is very conservative: 'Don't do this, don't do this, don't do this.' " So here is freedom. "Whatever you like, you do"—here is freedom. If this rascal does not do what you do and you go to hell, that is their business. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, "You rascal, where is your freedom?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you see. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So where is your freedom? First of all get out of these things; then question of freedom. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is your knowledge, that "Where is my freedom? If I am under the rules and regulation of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, then where is my freedom?" (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Simply rubber-stamped freedom will help me? Suppose I was dependent on British rule, and now I have become free. So will this help me to get freedom from janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi? Then where is my freedom? What are major questions, they have set aside. "Don't discuss all these things, and bother your head with trifle things." And our philosophy is that "Don't bother with these trifle things. Just seriously think of the major problems." This is our philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Teṣām ahaṁ samuddhartā mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt (BG 12.7). Samuddahartā, just to deliver them from this ocean of mṛtyu-saṁsāra. That is not care. Real freedom is given by him—that you don't care. (break) ...will be given by Kṛṣṇa. This is no freedom. Here the so-called freedom-giver, he has no freedom. And what he will give, freedom? Gandhiji preached so much about nonviolence, and nonviolence said, "All right, you have no freedom from nonviolence. You die." (Hindi) (break) ...is there, there is no question of freedom.
Prabhupāda: Yathā mat tathā path. This is going on. Everyone will say something, and it is all right. However nonsense it may be, it is all right. Even Gandhi followed that philosophy. Therefore he invented one, another philosophy, nonviolence, which is impossible. When Hindus approached him, that "You have got so much influence over the Mohammedans, so why not stop cow killing?" he said, "It is their religious principle. How can I interfere?" Just see.
Indian man (1): Nonviolence.
Indian man (2): Fighting for the truth.
Prabhupāda: What was the truth?
Indian man (1): There was discriminatory laws against the Indians, trying to let them carry certain documents to identify that they are foreigners and all that type of things, not allowed to go in certain places where other people were allowed to go, and all those kind of laws, discriminatory laws, especially for the Indians. So he fought against them for the truth that everybody is equal in the eyes of God.
Prabhupāda: So? But it was not successful.
Indian man (1): Partly it was, because then they had to listen to him, what actually the grievances were. First they were not prepared to talk to him. They didn't want him to know anything. Then they compromised, and from then onwards.... Still it has been carried on up to now. The laws are there for the Indians.
Prabhupāda: Still the Indians have no equal right.
Prabhupāda: Just like America... (laughs) Americans have not even one per cent. They are many thousands times opulent, the demigods. So it is very difficult. Just like here for a very rich man to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very difficult. That is a disquali...
- bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
- tayāpahṛta-cetasām
- vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ
- samādhau na dhigacchati
- (BG 2.44)
(Hindi) Voluntarily sannyāsa. All big, big kings in India, voluntarily: "Eh! Give it! Kick it out!" Mahārāja Bhārata, at the age of twenty-four years, he left everything, young wife, children, kingdom, whole world—gave it up. This is Indian culture, vairāgya. Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, (Hindi) as soon as the grandson, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, was major: "Take it. We are going." That is the fact. (Hindi) Even Mahatma (Gandhi). He declared himself mahātmā. He is such a mahātmā that unless he was killed by Goli(?), he was not leaving anything. He was not prepared. This is mahātmā, Kali-yūga ka mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). (Hindi) ...politics, politics, politics. (Hindi) ...nonviolence theory. Kṛṣṇa said, "You will die by violence. Nonviolence, there cannot be nonviolence. You wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā and criticize Me, Kṛṣṇa. All right, you die." Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Karl Marx maybe. Even your Gandhi-ism, that is also concoction. Gandhi invented nonviolence; it is also concoction. It is impossible. Everyone is doing this—something manufacturing. That is not sanātana dharma. Sanātana dharma is never manufactured. It is already there. You have to accept it, that's all. Otherwise everyone is manufacturing some concoction. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, "Fight." And Gandhi is teaching from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. Just see! Is it possible?
Dr. Patel: The will of God is the real thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. His will is supreme. Whatever He says, that's all. As soon as you manufacture, everything is spoiled.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Still, if you say, "You are mūḍha," they become angry. Such mūḍhas, rascals, they are in the government service. And if you say that "You are mūḍhas," he becomes angry. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye: "If a mūḍha is advised nice instruction, he becomes angry." He does not take it. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam: "If you give milk and banana to a snake, you simply increase his poison." One day he will come-(growls). You see? "I have given you milk and you..." "Yes, that is my nature. Yes. You give me milk, and I am prepared to kill you." This is mūḍha. We have to kill this civilization of mūḍhas. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Those who are actually human being, you have to give them Kṛṣṇa. And those who are mūḍhas, we have to kill them. This is our business. Kill all the mūḍhas and give Kṛṣṇa to the sane man. Yes. That will prove that you are really Kṛṣṇa's. We are not nonviolent. We are violent to the mūḍhas. (break) ...wal, did you come here before?
Indian man (1): No, sir.
Prabhupāda: Do you like this place?
Indian man (1): It's very nice.
Prabhupāda: Paṇḍal work... (break) Always, what is called...? Communism. They say, whole world, "We are Communists," "We are capitalists," "We are socialists," and "We are nonviolent," "We are violent."
Madhudviṣa: Dualism.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Madhudviṣa: Dualism?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not dualism. How many isms, nobody knows. But... What is called? Faction. Faction. Everyone is divided from the other.
Madhudviṣa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So we should not bring that attitude in our society. That is my request.
Prabhupāda: Cows are vegetarian. That's all right. There are many animals, vegetarian. So there is no perfection of life unless we come to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply by becoming vegetarian, simply by becoming nonviolent, simply by... These are all theories only. It has no value.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is sometimes put forward that not everyone will be able to embrace Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully. Therefore it may be better for them to accept some portion, like, for example, taking up vegetarianism or even doing haṭha-yoga, or something like this is better than nothing.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not very essential. Essential is how to think of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. He doesn't say that you become vegetarian.
Prabhupāda: My point is.... Just like the two points here: chastity and nonviolence. But this is not being carried out.
Guest (3): Well, we agree.
Prabhupāda: Then where is the prophet and where is the followers?
Guest (3): Well, see, the prophet is teaching the people about this and teaching them to live it.
Prabhupāda: That means people are not obeying the prophet.
Guest (3): Well, people are. We are.
Prabhupāda: Then how it is said that.... How they are killing animals? How the women are unchaste?
Guest (4): All people aren't following the prophet. All people in your belief aren't following you completely.
Prabhupāda: That is very nice. My point is that if we follow God—God's message is carried by prophet, and prophet if obeyed by the people—then the religion is in order. Otherwise it is a bogus religion.
Prabhupāda: So the neighbors they like it? Neighborhood men?
Kīrtanānanda: Most of them like us. There are a few that don't like us. But they are not violent. They are a little nasty.
Prabhupāda: Nasty they have been trained up to be. (Sanskrit) Once trained up nastily, it is very difficult to...
Kīrtanānanda: The state police in this local area has become very favorable to us. During that quarantine the state police had to stay here. So they even began to come to ārati. They took our books; they were reading. There's been a lot of change in some of the government. Some of the government men are now much favorable, more understanding.
Prabhupāda: Whatever was there, it was due to misunderstanding.
Prabhupāda: That is your ignorance. But the beginning is dharma-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting. Two parties, they, actually, the two parties... Pāṇḍavas māmakaḥ caiva kim akurvata. Every word is significant. Fighting can be executed even in dharma-kṣetre. That they cannot understand. Gandhi misunderstood. If it is dharma-kṣetre, how there can be fighting? He wanted to prove nonviolence artificially. How it is possible? Kṛṣṇa is instigating him to fight, and how can you make it nonviolent? That is artificial. And if you want to explain something artificially, how long you'll do it, it will be failure. So Gandhi's philosophy of nonviolence and reading of Bhagavad-gītā went with him. Nobody is interested in that kind of explanation. And we are explaining Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it is increasing. It is increasing. There is no artificial way.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity, nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger, renunciation, tranquillity, aversion to fault-finding, compassion and freedom from covetousness, gentleness, modesty and steady determination, vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor—these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature." (purport) "In the beginning of the Fifteenth Chapter the banyan tree of this material world was explained. The extra roots coming out of it were compared to the activities of the living entities, some auspicious, some inauspicious. In the Ninth Chapter also the devas, or godly, and asuras, the ungodly or demons, were explained. Now according to Vedic rites, activities in the mode of goodness are considered auspicious for progress on the path of liberation, and such activities are known as daivī prakṛti, transcendental by nature. Those who are situated in the transcendental nature make progress..."
Prabhupāda: The defect of modern civilization is that they have no idea about liberation. Neither they have any idea about transmigration of the soul. From the very root, they are defective. They are thinking... Just like animals. Dog is thinking, "I am this dog. I am born dog and I'll die, that's finished, everything." He cannot think that "I can become also man." He cannot think that. So the modern civilization, they cannot think even that there is next life and we can go... They have got the tendency to go to the higher planetary system, moon. Artificially, they are trying, but they do not know. Just like they can go to any planet, sarvaga. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṛn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). They do not know this, although they have got the tendency to go. But they do not know how to go, positively what are the position of the different planets or Vaikuṇṭhaloka or liberation or next life, transmigration—nothing of the sort. Simply like dogs. Now consider this point, whether I'm speaking right or wrong. I know I am speaking the right thing, but if you deny, then you talk amongst yourselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Read it.
Hari-śauri:
- deva-dvija-guru-prājña-
- pūjanaṁ śaucam ārjavam
- brahmacaryam ahiṁsā ca
- śārīraṁ tapa ucyate
"The austerity of the body consists in this: worship of the Supreme Lord, the brāhmaṇas, the spiritual master, and superiors like the father and mother. Cleanliness, simplicity, celibacy, and nonviolence are also austerities of the body." Shall I do the purport?
Prabhupāda: Words?
Hari-śauri: Purport?
Prabhupāda: No. Tapasya, words, not there?
Hari-śauri: Oh.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Because he did not have the blessing of Lord Caitanya, he did not understand it, so he rejected some of it, and as a result he was concocting. When he went to Africa, to South Africa, he started the movement there, this nonviolence...
Prabhupāda: There it was failure.
Atreya Ṛṣi: It was a failure.
Prabhupāda: Twenty years he tried, it was failure.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. It was actually a very frank article, and after I read it...
Prabhupāda: Who wrote it?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Somebody by the name of Mehta. He was obviously a very great scholar, because this magazine is very first-class magazine. It's not a cheap magazine, and it was written very nicely. Somebody by the name of Mehta. He's a Dr. Mehta. In the New Yorker magazine, New Yorker.
Prabhupāda: He has written one book, My Experiment With Truth, that truth is truth, but it is very (indistinct) thing. That means he did not know what is truth. (long pause-child says "haribol") He says "Haribol"?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Child: Haribol! Haribol! Haribol! Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Haribol! Haribol! Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Yes. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. The varṇa and āśrama I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, varṇāśrama means the head—brāhmaṇa; the arms—kṣatriya; the belly—vaiśya; and the leg—śūdra. So by nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. Brāhmaṇa. Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or kṣatriya department. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam(?). The kṣatriyas are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent. Immediately Kṛṣṇa chastised him, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam akīrti-karam.
Prabhupāda: You should go to see Visvambhara Gosvāmī also. (Hindi) This is fortunate that you have come in this moment. So I'll give you this inspiration, now combine together all Vṛndāvana gosvāmīs. Kṛṣṇa cult is for everyone, either Gauḍīya or Rāmānuja or everyone. Now all of you should come forward. That you do. Admitting (Hindi conversation). They are concerned with the Kṛṣṇa cult. Kṛṣṇa cult means all the ācāryas, all the ācāryas, either Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka or anyone, they should combine together. (Hindi) (aside:) Why you are talking? It is not very important. It is for him. It is a very bad habit. (aside ends) So we should be very alert in this point. All the Vaiṣṇavas of different sampradāyas, especially Gauḍīya sampradāya, you should come forward to fight this. They are gathering their strength. We should gather our strength. Fight, Kṛṣṇa never said that "Don't fight." (He) never said (to) Arjuna that "You are My devotee, you don't fight. You are very good gentleman, nonviolent, and I shall do everything for you." (He) never said that. (indistinct) Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samu.... viṣame samupasthitam. "Now there is a great dangerous fight, why you are saying like a nonsense," anārya-juṣṭam, like non-Aryan. (Hindi conversation) This fight is another good news that they are feeling the strength. Otherwise they would not have prepared to fight. Formerly they were thinking that so many swamis and yogis come, come and go.
Prabhupāda: He was a politician. That you cannot blame. Politics require all these things. A politician cannot be a saintly person. That is not possible. For politics he has to do so many things. That is necessary. Just like Arjuna wanted to be a nonviolent. Immediately it was condemned by Kṛṣṇa, "What is this nonsense? You are a military man. Nonviolent." And similarly, politicians, they require all this. Businessman must deal in black market. It is inevitable. Otherwise he cannot improve. Because the world is bad, you, if you become honest, then you cannot make pros..., cannot become prosperous. Sate sārtham samācaret.(?) Brāhmaṇa's dealing must be very straight and honest. They are not meant for politics or business. They are for transcendental knowledge. Kṛṣṇa conscious person should be all-inclusive. He must be a politician, he must be a brāhmaṇa, he must be a kṣatriya, he must be a śūdra—everything. All-inclusive. Because he is transcendental. In otherwise he is neither a brāhmaṇa, neither a śūdra, neither a... Yes. Nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir na yatir vā. Neither of these. In other side he is everything. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. As Kṛṣṇa is sometimes cowherd boy, politician, sometimes dancing with, artist—He is everything, not one-sided. So all food is finished?
Devotee: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: His ambition was nonviolent—he was killed by violence. So what to speak of others? A person so dedicated, so nice, but he followed the wrong path. Recently I had been to his Sevasram in Wardha. So there was no Kṛṣṇa worship and he said that he is very fond of Bhagavad-gītā. But he understood Bhagavad-gītā in his own way.
Guest (1): (laughing) In a different way, I would say.
Prabhupāda: And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, as soon as you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, it is finished. It is finished. Naṣṭa. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So naṣṭa cheese, what is naṣṭa, what is the use of...?
Guest (1): It should be destroyed. No use to it.
Prabhupāda: Suppose if I supply you something which is spoiled, then what benefit you will derive? Therefore no benefit is derived by the people in general either from Gandhi or Vinoba Bhave or Tilak because it was naṣṭa.
Guest (1): Yes. That is the truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Subash Bose was always against this nonviolent means. That is the difference of opinion with Gandhi. So he wanted to capture the whole power, and he captured, but Gandhi became so angry upon him that he did not attend the Congress when Subash Bose was elected President. Then other lieutenants-Subash Bose also was Gandhi's student—so when others planned, requested that "Gandhiji is not happy. You better resign." So he resigned, and tactfully he went out of India. He knew that "So long Gandhi is there, my policy... I'll not be able because there will be..."
Guest (1): Always opposition.
Prabhupāda: "...opposition." Therefore he went out and organized the INA, and that was successful. It is not Gandhi's noncooperation movement.
Prabhupāda: All the big, big secretaries, under-secretaries, governors... There was no minister, all European, only some clerks. So what is the use of clerks' noncooperation? They didn't care. And in order to pat Gandhi, the governor sometimes used to invite him. "Sir, you are so powerful. Kindly stop this movement." And Gandhi became puffed-up that the Britishers are very afraid of him. "No! I shall do." And Subash Bose insisting, "In this way, they'll never go by this nonviolent."
Guest (1): Human nature as it is, you can't... Unless there is some sort of a compulsion, whether in spiritual...
Prabhupāda: And in politics, might is right.
Prabhupāda: Now how you will understand unless you come to the science? (break) Gandhi manufactured. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and he wanted to draw the conclusion of nonviolence. What is this? Kṛṣṇa says kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame... "In this battlefield you are talking of nonsense, that 'I'll not fight.' " He says so and Gandhi wanted to make it nonviolent. Just see how from the very beginning he distorted. And people accept it. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). He was a śreṣṭha, leader. So whatever he will say people will accept. The whole India became spoiled.
Indian man: But the way to saksaska (?) is only...
Prabhupāda: Saksaska is... Kṛṣṇa is speaking, "Here I am." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Now why not saksaska? You can have. Unless you believe... You do not believe it.
Dr. Patel: I grant you. And take the fruit and realize.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's there. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni (BG 18.61). If you have done then you must suffer or enjoy. That's all. That is your business. You get... Now you have created a karma. You have to enjoy it by accepting a certain type of body. Now you take it. I ask māyā, "Give him this body. He wants to eat stool. All right. Give him the body of a hog." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. The yantra, the body is supplied by māyā under the order. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate (BG 9.10). Everything is there. But these things they do not preach. They preach unnecessarily nonviolence. From Bhagavad-gītā, which is being taught in the battlefield, and Gandhi wants to draw some meaning—nonviolence. Immediately it is, what is the value? Not only Gandhi. Everyone. If he can give a new interpretation... I think in Bombay, was there any Dr. Reilly? He wrote some Bhagavad-gītā commentary as...
Dr. Patel: I think it's not that Reilly. Not that Reilly, Dr. Reilly, but there is another Reilly in Baroda who taught...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll get you some.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He mentioned that, that "My Kṛṣṇa is different imagination. My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." That is his position. He imagines. He has... (Hindi) "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa..." This is... How he can believe Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is preaching violence, and he's trying to draw nonviolence. The people will challenge, but he makes his own commentation, his own imagination. He said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." This is his word. And actually... He is the student of Bhagavad-gītā and in his āśrama there is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. He does not believe in Kṛṣṇa. But believe or not believe, he was reading Bhagavad-gītā, had respect. That will give him some profit, there is no doubt. (break) Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. Everything is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. I speak, therefore, to my disciples that "You simply repeat like parrot Bhagavad-gītā and follow by your life. Don't try to become very big scholar, do interpretation. Remain foolish and believe in Kṛṣṇa. Then life is perfect." And actually that is happening. They never tried to eschew and... What is called, the English word? Draw out some meaning. Eschew or something?
Jagadīśa: Eschew is the right word.
Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity, and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal-man."
Prabhupāda: That's all (laughing) we have said. You can do one thing. You have got nim tree?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is that behavior, low...? Lowky?
Trivikrama: Low key.
Rāmeśvara: Means not violent.
Hari-śauri: Nice people.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
Rāmeśvara: "But they do not know about their forceful, harassing solicitation..."
Prabhupāda: They know.
Rāmeśvara: "...begging tactics."
Prabhupāda: We do not know.
Prabhupāda: The people approached him that "Mahatmaji, you have got influence over the Muslims, why not stop cow-killing?" "I cannot touch on their religious principles." Just see. Cow-killing is religious? Their religious principle. If I say my father-killing, mother-killing is my religion, so Gandhi will say, "Yes, you can do that. Nonviolent." Kill nonviolent. This nonsense contradiction can be tolerated by the fools and rascals. That's all. That is... Nonviolence, at the same time cow-killing. This rascal, another rascal... You are observing Buddha-jayantī and daily cow-killing. As if Buddha, Lord Buddha, recommended cow-killing.
Dr. Patel: Buddhists all eat, are meat-eaters the world over.
Prabhupāda: Not a question of Buddhist. That is Christian, Hindus, everyone. Rascals. Lord Buddha, he was nonviolent, and this Jawaharlal Nehru was observing Buddha-jayantī and at the same time sanctioning cow-killing. What is that? Cow-killing. "What is wrong in eating meat?" He has said that. (break) ...advertising our movement. Everyone's asking, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa?" That is the whole American people. Even if one did not know, he is "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?" And our books are selling, "What is this Kṛṣṇa book?" So indirectly they're advertising. (break) Their greatest shock that "Our people being taught 'No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication.' Then where is our civilization?" This is their greatest shock. Any sane man can understand that this Hindu culture is being forcibly introduced.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ. Kariṣye vacanam. This is liberation: "Now I am fixed up," sthito 'smi, "All doubts gone." This is real study of Bhagavad-gītā. And promises, kariṣye vacanam: "All right, I shall fight. I shall kill Bhiṣmadeva. Never mind he's my grandfather. No question of nonviolence. I shall commit violence." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because naṣṭo mohaḥ... "It was my mohaḥ. I was thinking in that way, that 'He's my grandfather. He's my brother. He's my nephew.' These are all nonsense. I have to satisfy You." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). That is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Bhakti means to act to satisfy to Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Without any argument, what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all right.
Prabhupāda: In Durban. South Africa. Fighting with General Smuts to give Indians equal rights. They are very conservative. At heart they want "Indians may go away." They don't want Indians. And if they want, it is for their own benefit. The Indians have given some place to develop as marketplace, and as soon as they develop, they ask, "Go there. Leave this place. Go away, other place." This is going on. And they know very well, politicians. The Indians have been given a place where nearby there is a slaughterhouse. They know Indians are sentimental, at least for cow slaughtering. Whole night slaughtering is going on, and there are screaming of the animals. Whole night. Even those who are meat-eaters, they will be disturbed. So the purpose is that "Let them live near the slaughterhouse, so by sentiment they are disgusted, leave this country." They don't want the Asians, especially Indians, and especially due to Gandhi, because they know, due to Gandhi... At least Gandhi organized the public opinion against the Britishers by this noncooperation movement. They were not affected by the... Affected in this way, that public opinion was against them. That is also organization. Otherwise Gandhi's method was not harmful to the..., this noncooperation, nonviolent. That did not help. But he influenced the public opinion against them.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is never dead. Just like sun. Sun is never out of the sky. It is in my eyes I see that sun is gone. Formerly these rascals were believing sun is dead at night. The Christians believed like that. Is it not? Some of the Christians believed that at night, sun is dead. And the world is square, flat. This is their knowledge. Lord Buddha, he rejected Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. We were being taught that "You cannot deny the authority of Vedas," and Lord Buddha, he denied the authority of Vedas. But the devotees, they are worshiping: keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "Lord Buddha, we can understand your pastime. Still, you are Lord. I offer my obeisances unto you." So the devotees can understand. You cannot understand why Lord Buddha denied the authority of Vedas—to keep you in darkness. He wanted to stop animal killing, and he preached ahiṁsā, nonviolence. That was his mission. Now these rascals came forward that "In the yajña vidhi animal-killing is recommended.
Prabhupāda: The Gandhi's philosophy is to wipe out the capitalist, Britishers, and his philosophy also, the same.
Satsvarūpa: But one was nonviolent.
Prabhupāda: That is only pretext.
Rāmeśvara: You have already defined violence as "Anything which does not save a man from repeated birth and death, that is violence."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Violence, I take it in this way, that you have got right to possess this. If I do not allow you to possess, that is violent. Somehow or other, I check it, and that is violence.
Prabhupāda: Gandhi's a rascal. Therefore he is failure. "In politics there is no violence"—that is another rascaldom.
Rāmeśvara: How has India improved by independence? What is the improvement? They are more godless than ever.
Prabhupāda: No, he... He... When the Hindus approached him that "You have got so much influence over the Muhammadans. Stop cow-killing," he replied, "How can I stop their cow-killing? It is their religion." Just see. He accepted something as religion which is killing. He's such a rascal.
Hari-śauri: And he was nonviolent.
Prabhupāda: He was nonviolent. "In the name of religion, one can kill." This is his philosophy. He was a politician. That's all. And he indulged personally in mercy killing in his āśrama. One calf was suffering, and he asked, "Kill him. He's very much suffering." Mercy killing. He was a rascal. But we don't say publicly, because he is very much... Sometimes we say.
Prabhupāda: That dangerous in every item. This Gandhi was also dangerous, although superficially nonviolent. Everyone is dangerous. Until one is devotee, he's dangerous in any position. He's dangerous. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. It is mental concoction that "This is good; this is bad." Everything is bad.
Hari-śauri: Part of their policy for that, though, was because they supported the Israelis, and then the Arabs started to squeeze them on the oil, so they had to get friendly with the Arabs again. So they started to supply them arms.
Prabhupāda: They'll have to change because it is mano-dharma, mental concoction.
Prabhupāda: Politics means always fight between the kṣatriya and kṣatriya.
Guest (1) (Indian man): Still, actually, with this nonviolence method, could get them, I mean, get the Britishers out from India.
Prabhupāda: No, you are not... Violence method. It is the Subash Bose's organization.
Guest (1): Said... That has got some...
Prabhupāda: No, it is circumstantial. Circumstantially means the Britishers were not at all concerned about the non... They knew that "We..."
Guest (1): Had to go.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.
Prabhupāda: So they decided that because without soldiers and police, how they can rule over? And that, when they saw the soldiers are now joining Subash Bose and they are planning to come to India from Imphal, so they saw, "Now it is impossible." They are politicians. They could understand. So therefore the conclusion is: It is not Gandhi's nonviolence. It is Subash Bose's INA which compelled them to go away.
Guest (1): Bose had impact. Subash Bose had a great impact because, you see...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say, violent. When they were threatened with violence... They are not philosophers, that nonviolence will drive away. They are politicians. "You go on with your nonviolence movement." Gandhi did it for twenty years in Urban. What is that?
Pradyumna: Durban, South Africa?
Prabhupāda: Durban, Durban. No conclusion. The Indians are still segregated. I had been in South Africa. So from... What is that? Johannesburg. Johannesburg city, that Indian quarter, at least ten to fifteen miles away in a jungle. And there they have kept slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: This is the position of Indian. So that part, Gandhi's movement there, that was a failure. No concession was given, still now. So these people they don't care about this nonviolence, satyāgraha.
Guest (1): But still, in America Martin Luther King saw nonviolence so greatly.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) That is also failure.
Pradyumna: I think they were more scared of the violence.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pradyumna: The blacks started groups in terrorism.
Prabhupāda: And then, then... (Bengali) It may be taken as a... Who cares.
Guest (1): This nonviolence is just put in the head of the others.
Prabhupāda: No, nobody cares for this non... (break) That is not, that India has no kṣatriya spirit. Very good kṣatriya spirit. But it was not organized. That is the difference of opinion between Gandhi and Subash. He wanted to organize it.
Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi. Gandhi was so big man. His nonviolence creed, who has accepted it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one.
Prabhupāda: Although nonviolence is a very good word, but who can accept it? We don't say such rascal things, imagination. We introduce Kṛṣṇa, encouraging, "Fight!" Nonsense nonviolence. (chuckles) "Kṣatriya, you should fight. Don't talk nonsense." Kutas tvā kaśmalam idam. "What kind of talking you are doing? You're My friend." And he wanted to introduce nonviolence. Where is nonviolence in Gītā? Artificial, all artificial.
Hari-śauri: When Arjuna wanted to stop fighting, Kṛṣṇa chastised him.
Prabhupāda: And he wants to prove nonviolence from Gītā. Just see how foolish he was. If you say publicly that he was a rascal, fool, then you become unpopular. But actually he was a rascal fool. (laughs) Artificial. Kṛṣṇa says, "You fight," and these rascals say, "Nonviolent." He's more than cheating. Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: And leaders like Gandhi. They would never say all these things. Nonviolence. He has manufactured his own idea, taking, cheating people with Gītā. This is first time, we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then?
Hari-śauri:
- etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya
- naṣṭātmāno 'lpa-buddhayaḥ
- prabhavanty ugra-karmāṇaḥ
- kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ
- (BG 16.9)
"Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves..."
Prabhupāda: This is their platform line for line, demoniac. Then their activities.
Hari-śauri: "...and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world."
Prabhupāda: Just see. There is periodical war.
Prabhupāda: This is a protest against Gandhi's nonviolence, (laughter) bogus nonviolence. So it is a protest against that idea.
Jayatīrtha: Yes, this is not a nonviolent picture.
Prabhupāda: I do not know how he wanted to draw nonviolence from this idea. This is going on, distorting the real fact. Politics without violence is impossible. There is a Bengali proverb, Naste base gun tata:(?) "A girl has come to the stage for dancing, and she is pulling her veil." (laughs) She has to dance freely, and what is the use of...? Nasta base gun tata.(?) In politics nonviolence, there is no history. The Britishers took it an opportunity to continue their ruling.
Mahāṁśa: He wasn't even political man, because politics means there has to be violence.
Prabhupāda: No, impartially studying, he endeavored for upliftment of the South African Indians, South Africans, yes, Johannesburg.
Prabhupāda: None. So that twenty years, failure, and here also he started that nonviolence-thirty years. In 1917 he came here from Africa, and the nonviolent, noncooperation... Actually the Hitler's war in 1947 helped India to become independent, the Hitler's cooperation with Subash Bose, INA. When he organized the soldiers, then Britishers thought, "No more chance." Then they left India. Not for the nonviolence. These are artificial things, in politics nonviolence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Wonderful Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Yes. If simply they appreciate that Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, their life will be successful. This very simple thing. A child can do it. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, there is no doubt. Let them admit only. They will be pushed forward in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I'll request only these big, big men that maintain this institution to attract intelligent persons from all over the world. And you do all nonsense, whatever you like, but maintain this. And if possible, after retirement come and do practical something. What is this nonsense? Andhā yathāndhair upa... What he will do? They are promising so many rascal things. What you will do? What you have got? Indira promised so many things. Bluffed. What she can do? Now she is, herself, Indira Gandhi. Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Īśa-trantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They want to do something. What happens? Gandhi, when he started nonviolence, "Within one year" And he dragged for fifty years. Twenty years in Durban and thirty years in India. Could not do anything. If you say that Gandhi could not do anything, people will be angry. But see, study the whole history. What did he do? Did the Britishers care for Gandhi's nonviolent movement? Pat him. "Let this rascal go on with his movement. We'll go on." That was the disagreement with Subhash Bose. Subhash Bose said, "Mahatmaji, they will never go by this nonviolence. You have to take to violence." He said that "I will never have independence, but I will not take it." Therefore he left India. When he organized that INA and when the Britishers felt the (indistinct), "Now the soldiers have joined," all hopes lost. They did not give up India for Gandhi's nonviolence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is what the usual belief is. The usual belief is that it was due to Gandhi's nonviolence.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is said in Hong Kong, somewhere. People were astonished. Nobody said like that. And this is the fact.
Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal man.
Prabhupāda: But... So your duty is to cooperate. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Living entities, Kṛṣṇa says, they are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It's duty, primary duty, is to cooperate what I say. I say the finger, "Come here." Immediately... That is the duty. That is cooperation. And I say the finger, "Come here," and finger goes anywhere, that is not cooperation. Similarly, whatever Kṛṣṇa says, you do it. That is cooperation. Then it will be successful. If you manufacture your own meaning, amendment, and your scholarship, nonsense, then you spoil. In politics, nonviolence? Hm? Just see. Do you think Gandhi became successful by nonviolence? Do you think? Violence. When Subhas Bose organized this I.N.A. it was successful. Otherwise he failed in South Africa; he failed in India.
Mr. Dwivedi: I could not appreciate him.
Prabhupāda: No, it is a fact. When Subhas Bapu... He was always pleading, "Gandhiji, these people are not to go by your nonviolence, and we have to take to violence." Gandhi would say, "I will not fight. Sva-rājya." Then Subash went outside India. Somehow or other, he organized. And when the Britishers saw that "The military force, they are joining national movement. Now it is no hope..." Because the Gurkhas and the Sikhs and other military races, they were cooperating with the Britishers, therefore they were maintaining. They could not bring soldiers from their country. And when they saw, "The soldiers are joining Subhas," they left. "Now independence." This is a fact. Otherwise Gandhi he was patting, "Mahatmaji, you are such a great man."
Mr. Dwivedi: In the... I used to meet in northly country in the late 20's, 1929 and '30, when Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru found League for Independence of India. Subhas Bapu was the second.
Prabhupāda: I was present in that meeting.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa condemned it, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "You are trying to become nonviolent." And Gandhi became more than Kṛṣṇa, nonviolent. What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "These things are spoken by the anāryas, not by the Aryans."
Mr. Dwivedi: No, He advised, quite right, hato vā prāpsyasi svargaṁ jitvā vā bhokṣyase mahīm, tasmāt...
Prabhupāda: No, no, in politics, when you deal in politics there is no question... Kṣatriya therefore. These things should be trained up. Some of them should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Some of them should be trained up as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya. They are required. So these things we want to organize. We can give you instruction. We can give you help. Now you have to do it, the leading... But it will be done. If you follow our instruction, it will be done. So the buildings are there.
Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa gave him within—bullet. Yes. "Your nonviolence is within. You take it within. Take this bullet." Such wrong theory. These are wrong theories. "You want to establish nonviolence, and the violence is within. Take it." So don't theorize. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti (BG 16.23). This is Gītā's word. If you do not follow the śāstra—you manufacture ideas—you'll never get success, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukham, no happiness, and what to speak of parāṁ gatim? (Hindi) Tasmāt śāstra-vidhānoktaṁ kāryākārya... What is that verse? Real guidance, śāstra, and Kṛṣṇa is speaking. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is very easy. But we have given up all these things. (Hindi) So you have to give up this. Otherwise there is no hope. (break) And to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is not at all difficult. Very simple thing. Otherwise how they have become? Ten years before, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. So how they have become Kṛṣṇa conscious? And our position is that even a person like Gandhi, he could not become Kṛṣṇa conscious in hundred years. Because the wrong way. And they have become within ten years fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. Now ask him that "Go back to your Christian." Will they go? They have been kidnapped. They have been forced. In so many ways they have been harassed. No. In America it was going on. Their fathers... From parents' side they have been kidnapped, detoured by force that "You eat it, the māṁsa. You eat." What is that girl who was kidnapped and she came to temple and married?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That girl in Los Angeles?
Prabhupāda: No, in New York.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "I preach something nonsense, and I take Bhagavad-gītā." Why? Why you take Bhagavad-gītā? You... There are so many rascal philosophers. You also preach your own philosophy. Why do you take Bhagavad-gītā? And where is nonviolence in Bhagavad-gītā?
Indian man: This, I think, they will be very active to know, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is nonviolence in Bhagavad-gītā, in politics?
Kārttikeya: Nowhere.
Prabhupāda: No. Even that incidence I told you, the, Duryodhana said, "You have come to, for kingdom? Yes, you can take." So he said, "No, no, no. That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. "Oh, Duryodhana, you are so gentleman. Let us settle up. No, no, no." "No! That will be settled in the battlefield." This is Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) "No, we have come to the battlefield. We must decide by fighting." This is kṣatriya. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. (Hindi) This is teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. Then where this is nonviolence come in the Bhagavad-gītā? Apalāyanam. (Hindi) "Come on. Fight. You have no weapon? Take from me." This is kṣatriya. What is the definition?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṣatriya?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (chants japa) If actually government follows Bhagavad-gītā, then they should stop this cow slaughter immediately. Go-rakṣya. If you want to eat meat, there are so many other animals. But don't touch cow. What is this? Ten thousand cows are being killed every day. And you are preaching nonviolence. (chants japa)
Mr. Dwivedi: Then I may take that letter from Your Holi...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: No, you are welcome always.
Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) ...you have got to do.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (chants japa) Jaya. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Gopīnātha?
Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Expecting. Hope against hope. This is struggle. That they do not see. They do... We have got this valuable life. What we are doing? We are doing the same thing as the small ants do. So what is the difference between that life and this life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes that "This is not your business. Your business is to surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That will be solved automatically. But they don't. They take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it for solving these problems. Gandhi and Bhagavad-gītā—what is that? Political struggle. Such a rascal. And he's leader? He does not know what is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. Has Kṛṣṇa come down to speak how to defend, how to eat, how to sleep? Is there any statement there? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Solve this problem. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. And who, nonsense, understands this? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This teaching... This is a teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. And they are taking Bhagavad-gītā for solving these problems. That's all. Ants' struggle. Violence, nonviolence and... So such big, big rascals are guiding us. What benefit they have given? And they are praised. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ... (SB 2.3.19). He's an animal, and he's praised by some small animals. That's all.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "I don't care for you." (Hindi) Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. That means he's engaged, she's engaged for beating with shoes. But he cannot understand, although Kṛṣṇa is coming personally to make him understand, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa; everything is finished. So it is up to you, whether you prefer to be beaten by shoes continually or you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That depends on you. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture nonsense things. (Hindi) Rascaldom. "Simply surrender to Me." (Hindi) ...manufacture... (Hindi) ...ism, this ism, that ism, that ism. (Hindi) The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. (Hindi) ...nonviolence... (Hindi) Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The first word is (Hindi). And you want to prove it, nonviolence.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) A young girl cannot go out without father's, mother's... She cannot mix with any other young man. Strictly prohibited. (Hindi) If you want to revive real Indian civilization or Vedic civilization for the good of the whole human society, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You'll be happy. There is no doubt. (Hindi) Why do you try to undo something which is spoken by Bhagavān, Vyāsadeva? (Hindi) So how can you make nonviolence? (Hindi) Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We are not following mahājana, but we are transgressing. (Hindi) (aside:) Bring. Bring cutting. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. And mahājanas are also mentioned,
- svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
- kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ
- prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
- balir vaiyāsakir vayam
- (SB 6.3.20)
Indian man (7): How can you fight a war and then be nonviolent at the same time?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian man (7): How is it possible to be nonviolent...
Prabhupāda: Why you want nonviolence?
Indian man (7): They are talking so much about nonviolence...
Prabhupāda: Just like here is a monkey. Is it not violence sometimes to drive away them? There will be attack, and you have to protect your... This world is not like that, that there is no... It is not Vaikuṇṭha. It is material world. There will be attack. Even if you are not..., you are nonviolent, the others will be violent. Others will set fire in your house without any fault. They'll kidnap your wife. This is going on all over the world. You must protect yourself. (Hindi) How you can stop him? Thieves and rogues, even if you are nonviolent, they will come, take advantage. It is your duty.
Indian man (7): What is meant by nonviolence?
Prabhupāda: It has no meaning.
Prabhupāda: Simply imagination, that's all. (Hindi conversation) (Hindi) ...proper use... (Hindi) This is the meaning. You cannot abolish it. That is not possible.
Indian man (8): What is to world Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolence or...
Prabhupāda: I do not wish to discuss nonviolen... But we are talking of philosophy, that you cannot stop violence. That is not possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says, mām anusmara yudhya ca (BG 8.7).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yudhya ca. (Hindi conversation) There is some word; the meaning is not clear. Then you can suggest that "Meaning may be like this." But when it is clear, there is no, I mean to say, chance of interpreting.
Prabhupāda: There is no hope. Now, to prove Bhagavad..., from Bhagavad-gītā, nonviolence, how it is possible? Bhagavad-gītā begins with the word yuyutsavaḥ. And now, if you want to make it nonviolent, that is misleading. Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting spirit. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). So where is nonviolence there? But our leaders want to prove Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. Is not misleading? Hm? Why you should misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā?
Indian man (5): Swamiji, there is no salvation for this country?
Prabhupāda: There is. Not everyone is misled. One who can protect himself from this misleading... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If they can understand their leaders are blind—they have no knowledge—then they'll be saved. That we are trying. And there is obstacle. When we say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being," they take objection. They say, "Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). This is the struggle going on.
Prabhupāda: So that will not be allowed. Aśāśvata. So this requires knowledge, intelligence, that "If I am eternal," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), "I am not destroyed even this body is destroyed," then you should seek after eternal happiness. Why temporary? That is not in your interest. That happiness is there when you go back to Kṛṣṇa; otherwise not. These are the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if we do not try to understand the real purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, and if we theorize, "Bhagavad-gītā means nonviolence. Bhagavad-gītā means to become patriot," these are materialism. We should avoid this wrong interpretation, misguiding direction of blind leaders. We'll not get any benefit out of it. So we are trying to rectify this. That's all. Everything is there. Any question is solved by Kṛṣṇa. Politics, economics, religion, culture, philosophy—everything is discussed very thoroughly.
Prabhupāda: Gandhi tried twenty years to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhash Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, Indian National Army? When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense that "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence... (laughter) While... "We shall pat them: 'Oh, yes, you are so powerful. Oh, why you are trying to drive away?' " And he'll be... "Oh..." The Baitland(?) Colony in a loincloth, and engaged in the sun chair.(?) He had no practical knowledge. He started the movement from 1917, and actually it was... Independence was given, 1947. Thirty years he failed. Twenty years he failed there. He spoils fifty years for nothing, and distorting Bhagavad-gītā, that in Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. Such a rascal. Bhagavad-gītā begins with, with this word, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre yuyutsavaḥ: (BG 1.1) "Two parties desiring to fight." That is the beginning. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). And Kṛṣṇa's whole life is yuddha, fighting. Before His birth, plan was being made how to kill Him. This is yuddha. Kaṁsa was planning. And after His birth He had to go away, just to make a show, from His father's house to another house incognito to avoid yuddha. And when yuddha began, three months old, He killed Pūtanā.
Correspondence
1947 to 1965 Correspondence
But I know that you never underwent such transcendental training except some severe penances which you invented for your purpose as you have invented so many things in the course of experimenting with the relative truths. You might have easily avoided them if you had approached the Guru as abovementioned. But your sincere efforts to attain some Godly qualities by austerities etc surely have raised you to some higher position which you can better utilize for the purpose of the Absolute Truth. If you, however, remain satisfied with such temporary position only and do not try to know the Absolute Truth, then surely you are to fall down from the artificially exalted position under the laws of Nature. But if you really want to approach the Absolute Truth and want to do some real good to the people in general all over the world, which shall include your ideas of unity, peace and non-violence, then you must give up the rotten politics immediately and rise up for the preaching work of the philosophy and religion of "Bhagavad-gita" without offering unnecessary and dogmatic interpretations on them. I had occasionally discussed this subject in my paper "Back to Godhead" and a leaf from the same is enclosed herewith for your reference.
With reference to the invitation issued by your Board, for suggestions for the administration of the Fund, I beg to inform that Gandhiji's memorial can fittingly be perpetuated by a continued effort to keep in motion his spiritual movements. I beg to suggest most humbly to your board that Gandhiji, minus his spiritual activities, is an ordinary politician. But actually he was a saint amongst the statesmen and his basic principle was to overhaul the very foundation of present civilization by the novel philosophy of satyagraha and nonviolence. The Congress institution is already in the waning for neglecting Gandhiji's spiritual movement which was the main pillar of his universal popularity. By claiming the Indian state as secular we should not sacrifice Gandhiji's spiritual movement which is different from communal religiosity. This fact is corroborated by such personalities as Sri Aurobindo and Dr. Radhakrishnan. You may do everything for commemorating his memory living but if you do not accelerate his spiritual movement, his memory will be soon as dead as has been the lot of other politicians.
1969 Correspondence
For example, the Commandment says "Thou shalt not kill". This means one should be non-violent. This is a good principle, but in the actual field, for want of sufficient knowledge, even this Commandment is being misinterpreted and misused. In the Bhagavad-gita you will find there are 20 items for advancing in knowledge. Perhaps you have read in the 13rd Chapter. Out of the 20 items, this non-violence items is one. But devotional service is so potent, that if one is engaged in devotional service to Krishna, automatically all good qualifications are there. Thus, from the practical point of view you can see the distinction between our disciples and any other group of religious faith. We do not indulge in illicit sex-life, which includes not to covet with another's wife or daughter; We do not eat meat, and that means automatically we are non-violent. We do not indulge in intoxication, and that means we are sane in considering things in their true perspective.
1970 Correspondence
One who can follow the instructions of Isopanisad can understand that nothing belongs to Maya, but everything belongs to Krsna. This knowledge is Krsna Consciousness. Regarding the end of devotees of Lord Jesus Christ, they can go to heaven, that is all. That is a planet in the material world. A devotee of Lord Jesus Christ is one who is strictly following the ten commandments. Now just like in the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" this is a moral instruction for the sinful man. Similarly Lord Buddha also emphasized ahimsa paramadharma "the highest religion is nonviolence." So these instructions are for the sinful men. When one is pious, instead of being sinful, he is promoted to the higher planetary systems like Janaloka, Mahaloka, or Tapaloka and they are above the planet Svargaloka. So persons who are cleansed of sinful life become eligible for spiritual life. From the instructions of Lord Jesus Christ we find that the stress is given to make men free from sinful life—such as "Thou shalt not kill" "Thou shalt not covet"—like that. Therefore the conclusion is that the devotees of Lord Jesus Christ are promoted to the heavenly planets which are within this material world.
I understand from your letter that people have been well impressed, so this is a good opportunity for advancing our missionary activities. Actually we are creating the most peaceful persons in the world. Krsna is so nice that anyone who takes to Him becomes the first-class peaceful man. You can know from the example of Arjuna how much peaceful he was. He did not mind to forego his claim, and he remained nonviolent and peaceful. Personally he was not in favor of fighting, and whatever he did was only to satisfy Krsna.
1973 Correspondence
After the shooting affair what precaution have you taken? Bharadraja is here and he gave report that the devotees were very frightened. I further understand that the attack was for the second time. Here in Mayapur there are reports of dacoity at least once, twice in a month surrounding our place. So we have now taken two guns under regular license from the government. So when New Vrindaban has been attacked twice, thrice, why are you not keeping guns? We are not advocates of non-violence when there is aggression we must kill them. So I think you shall immediately arrange for guns and at least 10, 12 men should be trained up so when there is again attack you can properly reply the aggressor.
There is no science, philosophy, music, art, Prasadam, it is no wonder that the people are rejecting this nonsense. Not that Christ himself was nonsense, but those who are preaching in his name they are nonsense because they do not follow even the simplest of his orders. "Thou shalt not Kill." I have met with so many Christians and when I ask them why Christians are killing they cannot answer. The first principle of spiritual life is non violence. They will say Killing in this matter means actually Murder, but accepting even this argument, it means that the society in which Christ was preaching were composed of Murderers, so what kind of men they were, and practically we see it is a fact that because they murdered Lord Jesus Christ. At any rate there is nothing in the world thAT CAN COMPARE WITH our Movement of Chanting and dancing. So Chant dance and when you get tired take Prasadm, this is our actual solid preaching work all over the world.
1975 Correspondence
So if we want to be happy in this life and the next we have to worship Visnu. But Gandhi did to satisfy Visnu? He was trying to satisfy his country, and his country killed him. He manufactured so many things which were never found in Bhagavad-gita. Throughout the Bhagavad-gita Krishna is encouraging Arjuna to fight, and Gandhi manufactured non-violence from Bhagavad-gita. Everyone in India knows the Mahabharata, the great battle of Kuruksetra, 640,000,000 soldiers gave up their life in that battle, and Krishna was personally instructing Arjuna to fight, and Gandhi took Bhagavad-gita and preached non-violence. So what was his understanding. At the end of his life he frankly said, "I don't believe there was ever such a historical person as Krishna". So what did Gandhi know about Bhagavad-gita?
My only credit is that I have presented Bhagavad-gita as it is, without any speculation, or interpretation, therefore for the first time in the history of the world people are accepting it and living practically according to the principles of Bhagavad-gita.
1976 Correspondence
After the last great war the existing body of the present United Nations was formed, but what real benefit there has been to be mentioned of for the worldly people. The ISKCON movement has actually got together all nations in the world by their adoption of nonviolence creed and spreading of Krishna's name, door-to-door. Amongst us there are Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists and others who in the same way initiating themselves with shaved head, sikha, tilaka and sacred thread are engaged in singing Krishna nama in accordance with the scripture, "krsna kirtana gana nartana parau." So I fervently request my gentle countrymen to have a thorough investigation of our affairs so as to discontinue their uncalled for agitations.
| Page Title: | Nonviolence (Conversations and Letters) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 22 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=112, Let=9 |
| No. of Quotes: | 121 |