After brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Their position is different. Therefore they have reached that unalloyed stage: without any consideration, simply loving Kṛṣṇa. That stage they have passed already. There is no such consideration. Pure love. That is pure love. Pure love means anyābhilāśitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). There is no question of knowledge. What these gopīs...? They were damsels, cowherds girls. They had no study of Vedānta or anything knowledge. Simply ordinary village girls. How they attained such love for Kṛṣṇa? That is not ordinary thing. So it is not a thing that one should attain the transcendental loving platform of Kṛṣṇa by studying. No. vinā mahat-pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. It can be achieved by the grace of Kṛṣṇa or by the grace of Kṛṣṇa's devotees. It is not that because one is very learned, he will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Or because one is rich, therefore he will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, or because one is great mystic, therefore he will. No. That will come... vinā mahat-pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. It cannot be achieved without touching the dust of lotus feet of a great devotee. That is the affect.
Mystic (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"mystic"
|"mystical"
|"mystically"
|"mystics"
|"mystified"
|"mystify"
|"mystifying"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: Well, would you say that, agree with those who say that in the people who have understood, in all the great schools of thought they have come to approximately, at least and sometimes almost, identical conclusions. The thinking of the great mystics in all religions have been in essential agreement.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that religion is a different thing. Religion is a kind of faith. You may have your faith in a certain type of procedure; I may have a certain type of procedure. That is different thing. Suppose you are now Christian. You may change your faith to Mohammedanism. But you as person, you do not change. Your faith may change. Similarly, we are concerned with consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Insanity for seeking Kṛṣṇa, that is required. Yes. Unless you become insane after Kṛṣṇa just like Lord Caitanya became... Yes. His worship is to become insane after Kṛṣṇa.
Allen Ginsberg: Is Kabir in the Vaiṣṇava tradition?
Guest (1): He is mystic.
Allen Ginsberg: So what tradition is he in, actually?
Prabhupāda: He is impersonalist on the whole. He is impersonalist, whole, and he has got some Vaiṣṇava thought. That's all, perverted thoughts. Perverted thoughts.
Allen Ginsberg: So who is the most perfect of the Vaiṣṇava poets? That would be Mīrā?
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This life, the material life, is dvandva. Dvandva means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called dvandva and moha. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion. What is that illusion? Accepting this body as self. So if one is contaminated by sinful activity—if he is in illusion, how he can..., illusion of accepting this body as self—what is the meaning of their self-realization? He's illusioned. He'll keep himself in all kinds of contaminated life, and artificially he thinks that by some kind of mystic meditation he'll be all right. This is going on. No. One must follow. Meditation, yogic meditation, is also possible when there is yama, niyama, āsana, praṇāyāma—the eight principles of yoga system. And nobody follows the eight principles of yoga system and simply sitting down and meditating, that will not help. The first two steps are yama, niyama, then āsana, then praṇāyāma, then pratyāhāra, then dhyāna, then dhāraṇā, then samādhi.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was going to ask is there any difference between acintya-śakti and mystic yoga power?
Prabhupāda: They call it mystic.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The same?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mystic yogic power means the same acintya-śakti, dormant potency which is within everyone. That can be awakened. The same example, as I have given, that everyone has got the potency to swim, but it has to be practiced. I cannot swim. For me, if one is swimming, it is inconceivable power. But I have got also that power. By practice, it has to be awakened.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is a yogic process.
Prabhupāda: Have you translated or not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Inconceivable?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Inconceivable or mystic.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mystic power.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I am just collecting what Śrīla Prabhupāda explained, the different acintya-śaktis that we observe.
Prabhupāda: Here the acintya-śakti is working, this mist, fog. You have no power to drive it away. Beyond your power. You can explain with some juggling of words...
Jesuit Priest: Have you met Mother Theresa?
Prabhupāda: Who is Mother Theresa?
Devotee: She's a Christian mystic.
Revatīnandana: She's a Christian nun, and she has a mission in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Saint Theresa?
Revatīnandana: Mother Theresa. She's living there now.
Jesuit Priest: She's an Albanian nun who works in India and is, and has captivated the whole world just by the fantastic work she's done and is doing amongst the down, the outcastes and the desperately poor in the cities of India, particularly in Calcutta. And she's got disciples, young men, young women, joining her, where most of the other religious orders are desperately short. And the youth is being captivated by her, and they can't cope with the numbers wanting to join.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the evolution, when our consciousness is in agreement with the supreme consciousness. (break) That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Yogeśvara: He says that the Rosicrucian order is a mystical and philosophical order that allows its students...
Prabhupāda: Who is Rosin? He is a philosopher?
Yogeśvara: He says that the term Rosicrucian means, it's an image of a cross with a rose in the center. It means that the disciple is aspiring towards the perfection of his consciousness and that this also means the perfection of consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So what is the ideal of that perfection of consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Why silence?
Yogeśvara: He says the term "entering into silence" is a mystic term that means...
Prabhupāda: He cannot explain. (break)
Yogeśvara: ...it is undescribable because it's something that's arrived at inside through meditation. You can't really describe it in words?
Prabhupāda: Why? You are describing so many thing in words and the ultimate goal you cannot describe.
Yogeśvara: He says that many great masters like you from the East tend to smile at their explanations, but he...
Guru-gaurāṅga: They tend to smile when this question is asked, "Who am I?" So what can I say compared to these masters?
Prabhupāda: And he is part of that organization. He does not know.
Guru-gaurāṅga: He says that evolution of man which is the goal of this order is something that is mystical. It is not scientific, that it is so easily...
Prabhupāda: That means it is pale. It is not distinct.
Yogeśvara: He says he is surprised that we raise such objections. He thought that we were also searching for something mystical. He says he's heard our chanting.
Prabhupāda: Who, who? Who?
Yogeśvara: He said he thought we were also searching.
Prabhupāda: Because if you ask me to love, I want to know what is, whom I shall love.
Yogeśvara: A mystic, he loves everything, everyone.
Prabhupāda: Is there any example?
Yogeśvara: An example is the master of their movement. He was supposed to come, but he was on vacation. But the grand master of their movement, he says, is one example.
Prabhupāda: No, suppose to love everyone, that means you love the animals also. Their community allows, animal killing?
Yogeśvara: (break) ...that are steps, but the order itself doesn't require that you give up meat-eating at any point. He says he thinks that the people themselves would probably give it up in the higher stages. He says that their order has a very smart way of doing things, that if they were to try and tell people, "Don't do this, don't do this, don't do that," right away, nobody would join them. So they don't say that. (break) They fall away gradually by themselves. (break) ...quotes a passage from St. Paul who said if you go and visit someone who is a meat-eater, don't trouble him. Accept meat with him. The real mystic is someone who has controlled his body.
Prabhupāda: That he cannot explain, how to control the body. (break)
Guru-gaurāṅga: ...it happens right away, it will happen in awhile.
Prabhupāda: One who can remember about his past life. (break) ...means forgetting everything of the past life. (break) ...times a person remembers.
Yogeśvara: She asks for a definition of the word "occult." What is something that is occult, something occult or mystic? What is it?
Prabhupāda: Mystic?
Yogeśvara: Mystic. What is mysticism?
Prabhupāda: I do not say anything on mysticism. Mystic, something. It is called rahasya.
Yogeśvara: Rahasya?
Prabhupāda: I do not say anything on mysticism. Mystic, something. It is called rahasya.
Yogeśvara: Rahasya?
Prabhupāda: Rahasya. Something wonderful. Is that meaning? Mystic
Indian Man: Mystic... I mean. I think when Western historians and literators explain Indian religious literature, especially literature of bhakti-mārga, they term that those are the mystics and also they term the Sufi poets are mystics. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...say mystic means rahasya.
Yogeśvara: Rahasya.
Prabhupāda: ...say mystic means rahasya.
Yogeśvara: Rahasya.
Prabhupāda: Rahasya means it is little difficult to understand. (break) Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā: rahasyam, rahasyam etad uttamam. Rahasyam etad uttamam. This Bhagavad-gītā is the first-class mystic. Rahasyam etad uttamaṁ bhakto 'si me priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). "Because you are My devotee, you are My dear friend, you'll understand." So mysticism is not understandable by common man. It requires a special qualification. Just like to understand. It is also mysticism. Understand, to understand God. This is also mystic. It is not understandable by ordinary man. (end)
Prabhupāda: So we have to do this chanting, not sit down in a solitary place, chanting himself. No, not like that. You are to vibrate the sound for the benefit of others.
Umāpati: That is the mystical process of this movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So that their heart may be cleansed and they can understand. And if I sit down in a solitary place, for my benefit, that may be his benefit, but it is not very high class engagement. He must sacrifice for others. Pararthe prag utsri, utsri(?). That is the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's moral instruction, that "Everyone should sacrifice for the Supreme." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is God Himself. He comes down to preach, to become sannyāsī, and to take so much trouble all over India and everywhere, and giving instruction and sending men, "Go, go, go, go." What? Why you...? He's perfect.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Achieved. Oh.
Guest: And uh, then he started to say, "Well if they believe in an external God," or something like that, "then it is heretical." I says, "But nevertheless," I says, "Uh, like in the writings of, say, Meister Eckhart or the different mystics, they all seem to describe their experience in pretty much similar terms." So I said, I asked him, "Does this mean that the experience is different or not?" So then he argued, he finally says.... Well, he didn't say it directly, but what he said is that if, if you want to get the experience of touching something to find out what hot is, he says you may have different motive. Like some people may do it because it's pretty, some out of curiosity or different motive. In other words, he admitted that the experience finally was the same, even though the approach was different.
Girirāja: (completes synonyms) "Translation: But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give to you divine eyes by which you can behold My mystic opulence."
Prabhupāda: Now, this is Kṛṣṇa's power. Let us understand. A teeny aeroplane is floating in the air, and it is making so much sound. And millions and trillions of planets are floating, there is no sound. There is no sound. (break) ...if you take it and fix it up... What is that? One thousand or more than, one thousand miles.
Dr. Patel: A second.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This earth, per hour.
Prabhupāda: Here is description of Pūtanā, twelve miles. Big gigantic body. And nobody has seen such gigantic body. But it is described in the Bhāgavatam. (break) ...Mahārāja was so simple, village man, that he accepted Vasudeva, a great mystic. Hare Kṛṣṇa. A devotee says that "I prefer to become a dog in the house of a devotee."
- vaiṣṇava ṭhākura, tomāra kukkura,
- bhuliyā janaha mora
He is praying, "My dear Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura, you kindly accept me as your dog. But you accept me." You see? "And I shall do this, I shall do this. I shall sit down on your door. I shall not allow any nondevotee to disturb you." He has sung like...
Prabhupāda: So our, this movement is to create lover of God. It does not matter whether he follows Christianity or Hinduism or Buddhism or this ism or that ism. One must be lover of God, and that is stated in the Bhāgavata. That is first-class religion which turns the followers to become lover of God, that's all.
M. Roche-dieu: In Christianity, mystics would emphasize the same thing.
Prabhupāda: That is the essence of religion, to know God and to love Him. That's all.
M. Roche-dieu: Yes. Love God and love the man too.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Priest: Do you know the Sufis are Muslims (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: No.
Priest: They are the great mystics of Islam, and they always address God as Allah. As we say...
Prabhupāda: Allah means God.
Priest: Yes. It is the name of God for them. "Allah the all-knowing is great." Anybody who knows Islam knows that.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, if one chants Allah or Jesus Christ, we have no objection. We don't say that you stop it. We say that you chant the holy name of God. If that name is of God, you chant.
Pṛthu Putra: He says that the answer of that is very often come, although it doesn't have to come with a name of God because the name of God is very often utilized to mystify the people.
Yogeśvara: In other words, he's saying, "I know what you want to get me to say. You want me to say that the center is God." But he's saying, "I'd rather not say that because that's too mystical."
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of talking if you do not know the central point? He says that to come to the truth, neti neti. So we must come to the truth. So we must find out first of all truth. Then we discuss the other, subordinate things. (French) Neti neti means "Not this, not this," means to search out the truth. (French for some time, devotees try to explain Prabhupāda's challenges, RM makes a long speech.)
Prabhupāda: Past, present and future.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: There is a philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that you meditate on some third eye, and this opens up into the..., some spiritual realization, a mystical realization. It is very popular.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Between the two eyebrows, that is said, explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhruvor madhye..., ante kāle ca mām...
Pṛthu Putra: (French)
Prabhupāda: That's Eight Chapter, I think, bhruvor madhye. Eighth Chapter? Hmm. Is it the Eighth Chapter?
Yogeśvara: That is the Eighth Chapter, text 21, 22.
Prabhupāda: Ten. Read.
Yogeśvara: He says, in history there was the mystery of the sphinxes of Egypt, do these sphinxes carry any significance?
Prabhupāda: Hum?
Yogeśvara: Is the pyramid and the sphinx in Egypt civilization are any mystic significance?
Pṛthu Putra: It's a great relevance for the Egyptian civilization.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is just like samādhi. Samādhi, when you become samādhi, then if you're, I mean to say, put within the earth, you do not die.
Pṛthu Putra: (French)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Even if you are put in the earth you do not die.
Pṛthu Putra: (French)
Yogeśvara: Where was this? In a newspaper?
Prabhupāda: Yes. In paper I saw. (French)
French Woman: But we are not under historical literally. We try to speak of mystical experience. This is exactly the subject of, that we did. We cannot discuss history because everybody has his own documentation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I was very much pleased because I was very sorry that Jesus Christ was crucified. But when I heard this historical discovery, I was very satisfied. But one thing is that... Here, at least, in London, I have seen. There are so many churches vacant. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says he was at your conference, last night and he was there when you described how human life is meant for knowing God. So now he wishes to ask you a question: What is our process for coming to know God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are different airs within the body and controlling the airs and putting this soul... Soul is already floating in the air. So the yogi mystic process can bring the soul from different places, and then they bring it here and they ascertain where he has to go, and then, from this hole... What is called, this hole?
Madhudviṣa: Brahma-randhra.
Prabhupāda: Brahma-randhra, we say.
Satsvarūpa: Skull.
Devotee: Cerebellum? Cerebral...?
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Satsvarūpa: In this verse the word buddhi-yogam is very significant. We may remember that in the Second Chapter the Lord, instructing Arjuna, said that He had spoken to him of many things and that He would instruct him in the way of buddhi-yoga. Now buddhi-yoga is explained. Buddhi-yogam itself is action in Kṛṣṇa consciousness; that is the highest intelligence. Buddhi means intelligence, and yogam means mystic activities or mystic elevation. When one tries to go back home, back to Godhead, and takes fully to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in devotional service, his action is called buddhi-yogam. In other words, buddhi-yogam is the process by which one gets out of the entanglement of this material world.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Professor: But in the case of a mystical man that has been able to see...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of mystic. First of all we have to admit that on account of our senses being imperfect, whatever knowledge we gather, that is imperfect. That is imperfect. Therefore, if you want to possess real knowledge you have to approach somebody who is perfect. You cannot... Huh?
Guest (1): How can we know that somebody is perfect?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But first of all, the basic principle is we have to understand that our senses are imperfect, and whatever knowledge we gather by these imperfect senses, they are imperfect. So if we want perfect knowledge, then we have to approach somebody whose senses are perfect, whose knowledge is perfect. That is the principle. That is the Vedic principle. Therefore the Vedic principle says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You know Sanskrit, yes. "In order to know that perfect knowledge, one should approach guru."
Prabhupāda: Three castle?
Jesuit: Mm. In her book, Interior Mansions. But the real mystic prayer, well, is not given to everybody. Do you have... Do these men get trained in mystic prayer, contemplation?
Prabhupāda: Mystic prayer means to think of God's activities. So that is smaraṇam.
Jesuit: Smaraṇam. Not so much thinking of them as just being really in His presence and open to receive love and to be active. Do you know what I mean?
Prabhupāda: Well, but bhakti is activity. Bhakti is not passive. Active. Just like hearing. It is activity. Similarly glorifying, this is activity. Smaraṇam, remembering, memorizing, that is activity.
Prabhupāda: ...is very nice.
Siddha-svarūpa: Oh. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...movement, then that is nice.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, They, the mystic yogis... (break) ...Cambodia and Vietnam. Now Cambodia and Vietnam are fighting.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Why?
Siddha-svarūpa: Over the oil on the offshore. There is offshore oil. The oil that the United Stated wanted. Now these two are fighting off some islands that are... There's a wars... Wars are... (break)
Dr. Judah: Of course, in Christianity, which many of the Christians, I feel, are not following as closely as they should and have in the past, there is the idea, for example, in the Roman Catholic church, for example, at the time of the Mass, of experiencing the presence of God and there have been Christian mystics who have felt that they have experienced God. For example, St. Theresa, St. John of the Cross, Meister Eckhart, and various ones.
Prabhupāda: So they must give description of God. If you have seen this rose flower, then you can give a description. If you cannot give a description, then how you have seen rose flower?
Satsvarūpa:
- yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo
- yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ
- tatra śrīr vijayo bhūtir
- dhruvā nītir matir mama
- (BG 18.78)
"Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion."
Prabhupāda: Where there is Kṛṣṇa and His devotee, all opulences, all power, all strength, everything is there. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo yatra dhanur-dharaḥ pārthaḥ. Wherever there is Arjuna... Just like Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa were on the chariot. Whole battlefield became victorious on behalf of Arjuna. That is wanted. A devotee must be there, and Kṛṣṇa must be there. Then all opulences will come. That is the secret. Why a devotee shall go to the forest for meditating or acquiring some mystic powers? He doesn't require anything. If he keeps Kṛṣṇa always with him, then everything will... Yes. Is there any purport?
Prabhupāda: Then how we can accept that? Drug is a material thing, chemical composition, and how it can help one, God realization? That is not possible. This is a kind of intoxication and hallucination, but it is not God realization.
Faill: Do you think that the great mystics down the ages have actually seen this spark? This is what...
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by mystic?
Faill: Well, there seem to be chaps who've had some very odd experience and always remembered it and found it very difficult to put it down in words.
Prabhupāda: Mystic means something jugglery? What do you mean by mystic?
Faill: Well, it's just the name they seem to give people who've had an experience of another level of reality.
Prabhupāda: Mystic means something jugglery? What do you mean by mystic?
Faill: Well, it's just the name they seem to give people who've had an experience of another level of reality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So yes, that... We don't say mystic. Our reality is God realization. There are different stages. I mean to say, direct perception, then receiving knowledge from authority, then personal experience between the two, then above that transcendental, and then, I mean to say, spiritual. In this way we have to go, step by step. We have to come to the point, to the spiritual platform. So, so long we are on the bodily concept of life, our understanding is sense gratification because body means the senses. And then, if we go still up, then we can see that mind is the center of sense activities. We take the mind as the final, and that is mental platform. Then, from mental platform, we come to the intellectual platform. Then, from intellectual platform, we come to the transcendental platform.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "After we have your money."
Harikeśa: They keep it very mystical so that you keep thinking in the future you'll get something.
Prabhupāda: The same as the scientists, same.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually, Prabhupāda, by your mercy we've been able to see that the whole world is simply cheaters and cheated.
Prabhupāda: That's all. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Eucalyptus trees?
Prabhupāda: This is eucalyptus.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Harikeśa: Wouldn't it be handy, though, to be able to fly around without having to use airplanes?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: I mean, if you had some mystic opulence like being able to fly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the yogis can do that.
Harikeśa: Wouldn't that be handy? Couldn't a devotee utilize that?
Prabhupāda: What is the use?
Harikeśa: Well, instead of taking airplanes here and there, you could just...
Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the difference? If by practicing severe yogic means you fly, the birds are also flying. They are flying without airplane. Does it mean that it has become very great? There are many birds, garuḍa bird. They can fly from one planet to another. Just like small birds—they fly from one tree to another, take rest again—so they fly from this planet to another. Take rest, again another. What is the value of your airplane? You cannot go to another planet. There are birds; they catch up elephants and take it away for eating. Does it mean he has become, it has become God?
Sudāmā: Yes. Mr. Ogata and Mr. Kugimoto said, "Somehow by his... He is such a great man, His Divine Grace, somehow we accepted." They were surprised. Remember when he went?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were mystified by you, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: When I was coming back from America at that time, I came via Japan for this purpose. At that time you were in charge.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your dealings with them were very memorable.
Prabhupāda: They said, "How we agreed?" (laughs) They were surprised.
Sudāmā: And whenever I would see the president... That one meeting you had with him... Whenever I would see the president after that, he would always ask me, "How is His Divine Grace? How is he feeling and where is he?"
Prabhupāda: Who can support our movement.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So we have to capture them.
Siddha-svarūpa: They are more of a mystic yogi sort of school, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is also yoga, to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is yoga.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.
Revatīnandana: Actually that's Mao's...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rāmeśvara: That it is Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...the supreme mystic.
Prabhupāda: Supreme mystic.... "If You like, it is possible; otherwise not possible. From calculation it is impossible." That is the subject matter.
Kīrtanānanda: But nobody before you even tried.
Prabhupāda: They came for some money or some reputation or "England-returned." The Bon Mahārāja, this Vivekananda, and all, all these rascals who are coming, that's all. They come for some money and woman, some prestigious position, the material things. For prestigious position, for money, for women, means it is all material. They have no spiritual idea.
Prabhupāda: We shall walk. You'll have good exercise. (laughter)
Makhanlāl: By oxcart also?
Prabhupāda: If possible; if not, walk. What is that?
Hari-śauri: Maybe we can develop some mystic opulence and walk on the water.
Prabhupāda: Here, in this world, everything has got six changes. Birth, then stay, and then develop, then by-products, then dwindle, then finish. Everything. So the motorcar civilization, it was born. And now the time has come it is dwindling, and it will be finished. Just like railway; railway no more interested, anybody. But when it was invented, it was very important. Now it is useless. That is the nature of everything here in this material world. It cannot be permanent benefit. That they do not know.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "...who has made it his life's work to debunk the so-called material powers of god-men the world over, and said that he is afraid for his life. Amongst those he has challenged is Satya Sai Baba, a mystic who has thousands of followers in South Africa. The man who is said to expose fraudulent practices amongst miracle workers is Dr. Abraham T. Kavoor, who recently held a spell-binding magic show at the Bangalore Town Hall to debunk the miracles of god-men. He claimed that several of the tricks demonstrated had, in fact, been learned from persons who had duped the public that they could perform miracles and other extraordinary acts. And this, he believed, would lead to an attempt on his life. 'I am not afraid of gods. They don't exist. But I am afraid of god-men, because they are alive. They have thugs as agents. If a good man like Gandhi could be assassinated, what keeps a Kavoor from suffering the same fate?' Addressing a press conference, Dr. Kavoor implied that an attempt might be made on his life if he tried to expose the fraudulent practice by god-men because this would involve a physical search of the persons involved. Hence his insistence that his investigation would have to be preceded by their permission. (The permission of these so-called mystics, registered letters.) To date, he said, he had written six registered letters to Satya Sai Baba issuing his famous challenge, but had no reply from him as yet. Asked how he produced ash and other objects out of nowhere, Dr. Kavoor indicated that one of the methods was by concealing the objects to be materialized inside of his coat. The rest was pure sleight of hand. Photographs of him (Sai Baba) exposing his coat have been published both in the national and international press, he said. Reporting that haṭha-yogī L.S. Lal had confessed to him that his much-vaunted show of walking on water had been pure trick designed to make some money, Dr. Kavoor said, 'How long can the government of India tolerate such hoaxers who claim to have supernatural powers and exploit the ordinary men?' "
Prabhupāda: You keep this. We shall have to show to the Indian government authorities.
Prabhupāda: I do not know.
Bhakta Gene: You didn't meet with him? He was supposedly the most prominent mystical writer within the Catholic Church in the past one hundred years. His writings gained tremendous prominence in the past..., oh, the past twenty-five years.
Prabhupāda: Prominence amongst whom?
Bhakta Gene: Uh, amongst Christians. And non-Christians as well. He made a trip to the East. He had an accident in the East and was electrocuted. Oh, this is some ten years ago now.
Jayādvaita: He wrote that original introduction for your first Bhagavad-gītā published by Macmillan.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Bhakta Gene: Well, this raises a question in my mind, Your Grace. Within Christianity there has been a history of mysticism from 100 A.D. to the present. Now there have been some prominent mystics, a few prominent mystics, and a great many not so prominent. Now how do you classify these men, these Christian mystics, Protestant as well as Catholic?
Prabhupāda: It is some yogic mysticism. It has nothing to do with spiritual life. They want to see some miracles, generally, ordinary public. So this mystic power, show some miracles and make them astonished. That's all. It has nothing to do with spiritual life.
Bhakta Gene: Perhaps you misunderstood me. I was referring to truly devotional mystics, such as St. John of the Cross, St. Francis of Assisi.
Prabhupāda: If there is devotional service, where is the need of mysticism? There is no need. God is my master, I am His servant. Where there is necessity of this nonsense mysticism?
Bhakta Gene: I think that the term mysticism, so many people have been playing with, particularly here in the United States.
Prabhupāda: So many people, we have nothing to do with so many people. If you are actually servant of God, so God is there, you are servant. So your transaction is there. Just to carry out the orders of God. That's all. Why do you want mysticism? Just to show some jugglery to the people? You serve God. That's all. And it is very simple thing, what God orders. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Where is the question of mysticism? There is no question of mysticism. God says "Just always think of Me. Offer your obeisances and worship Me." That's all.
Prabhupāda: The problem is that we are suffering in this material world life after life, and our aim is how to again go back to home, back to Godhead. That they do not know. They are showing some mysticism. Stop death. Then I shall see your mysticism. What is this nonsense mysticism? Can you stop death? Is it possible? Then what is the meaning of this mysticism? All bogus. My problem is that I am accepting one body and suffering, because as soon as I get this material body, I have to suffer. Then I am creating another body. I die. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And again begins another chapter. In this way, from this grass life to the demigods, I am simply changing body and dying and taking birth. This is my problem. So what mysticism will do? But that they do not know, what is the problem. That is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is your problem. You are repeatedly taking birth and dying, and so long you are living there are so many troubles. Jarā-vyādhi. Especially old age and disease. So this is the problem. What mysticism will help you? Will the mysticism stop your birth, death, old age and disease? Then that is mysticism. Otherwise, what is the use of such nonsense things. (break) ...misleading from the real path. They do not know what is the aim of life, what is the problem of life. They create some mysticism, and some rascal people are after them. That's all. "Here is mystic."
Bhakta Gene: I am convinced.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why one should be after mysticism? What is the benefit?
Bhakta Gene: It was the mystics that brought me here. This was the thing. It was their love of God...
Prabhupāda: Where is mystic? We don't show any mystic.
Bhakta Gene: No. The term, we're having trouble with the term. The term "mystic" was applied to transcendentalists within the church to show a difference between them and the traditionalists. The traditionalists were those who paid attention to the script.
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by traditionalist?
Satsvarūpa: Some of these Christian mystics would say it's more important to directly contact God within your own heart. These traditions are not as important.
Prabhupāda: God is there already. Where is the contact? God is there already. It is no question of contacting. He is already, but you are blind, you cannot see. Therefore if you follow the rules and regulations, then you'll see. You'll see. Otherwise we'll not see. God is there. God is everywhere. God is here. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). You have no eyes to see.
Bhakta Gene: These are almost the very words that Francis of Assisi stated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This question was raised in Melbourne. And that is perfectional. He was embracing tree. So I told, "This is perfection." Perfection means he'll see everywhere God and everything in God. That is perfection.
Hari-śauri: I think we should go back now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Satsvarūpa: (break) ...that we have to stick to the tradition. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. Then.... Not just by mystical devotion.
Prabhupāda: There is no proper guide. They manufacture ideas, that's all. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2), that path is not there. (break) ...name? I forgot
Satsvarūpa: Gene.
Prabhupāda: Gene.
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...building or something...
Viśvakarmā: Yes, it's a very big exhibit, scientific achievements. (break) ...come and see it.
Rādhāvallabha: They have here proof that his mantra is no different than any ordinary sound. It says "In a Stanford Research Institute experiment, a group of TM trainees was compared to a control group who had been taught a fake mantra that they believed would be effective. In both groups some subjects were able to bring unpleasant psychosomatic symptoms under control. Three of these dropped out of the TM training group. Their symptoms returned. Two dropped out of the control group; their symptoms came back too. Evidence like that suggests that whatever works in the TM system, it does not depend upon the mystical mantra."
Prabhupāda: Let their men come and talk with our men in a public meeting. Then people will understand what is the difference.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have a catalog, Transcendental Meditation University, it's very well done, nice colors and anything, first class. They spend a lot of money and a lot of thoughts how to bring, how to attract the students.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says their University's just closed down.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, the one at Iowa?
Prabhupāda: The om word is used in English?
Bali-mardana: Om is very popular in English language for a long time. When they think of mystical things, they think of om. The English, originally because they were in India, they thought to imitate some Indian words.
Prabhupāda: Many Indian words have been introduced in dictionary. And many English words is also introduced. That is natural. (break)
Bali-mardana: ...introduced Kṛṣṇa in the Western world.
Prabhupāda: No, it was in the dictionary.
Bali-mardana: But many people had never heard it before you brought it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also the dictionary definition is not perfect.
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Pradyumna: "Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion."
Prabhupāda: So understand Kṛṣṇa like Arjuna. Then Kṛṣṇa is there, Arjuna is there, and all victory is there.
Mrs. Sahani: Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. Anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa can become Arjuna? Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: He's like Arjuna. He's like Arjuna. What is Arjuna's qualification? He surrendered, and he says kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). You become also Arjuna-like.
Mrs. Sahani: And the victory is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then victory is there. But if one can avoid Kṛṣṇa or kill Kṛṣṇa, then where is victory?
Hari-śauri: And then he produced gold ring and stuff like this.
Prabhupāda: This is magic.
Hari-śauri: Still, even if he can do those things, it's only mystic siddhi. That doesn't mean to say he's God or an avatāra or anything. But these people are so foolish they think anybody with a little magic, he must be avatāra.
Pradyumna: They worship him as God. "Bhagavan Sai Baba."
Prabhupāda: Anyway, we must bring this man charges. "Ungodly face."
Hari-śauri: Just like it says in the Bhagavad-gītā, they think religion is irreligion...
Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face," what is that?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Jagadīśa: "Dear Dr. Lubin: In our recent telephone conversation you asked me to articulate in a letter those questions concerning the current brainwashing, deprogramming controversy which I feel may be pertinent to psychiatrists interested in religious issues and therefore a potential topic for discussion and or research within the Committee on Psychiatry and Religion of the Group for Advancement of Psychiatry. Speaking on my own behalf and informally on behalf of the Hare Kṛṣṇa religious society, I might suggest that this issue raises some very serious questions concerning possible abuses of diagnostic power in psychiatry against religious practitioners and movements for what may be social, political, and legal ends. Within the last ten years a large number of new religious groups, sects, communities and organizations have appeared on the American scene. Some are totally new organizationally as well as theologically. And others are, or allege to be, based upon some already existing spiritual tradition. I myself am a member for six years of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. The term Kṛṣṇa consciousness is synonymous with the term bhakti-yoga, a theistic form of yoga which finds its scriptural authority in the Bhagavad-gītā and other major Indian devotional texts. The religious tradition represented in the West of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, Vaiṣṇavism, has centered the lives of hundreds of millions of Hindus for many centuries in India. This particular tradition has produced one of the world's largest and richest bodies of religious, philosophical, and mystical literature.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: "Easy Journey to Other Planets. So this is a different culture, how to go to other planetary system, how to transfer the soul from one body to another. In other planets there are also living entities. One can transfer himself, after giving up this body, to anywhere he likes without any help of the sputnik, and without the help of the sputnik or any flying machine. This is the mystic system unknown to the world, but it is authorized in the Vedas, original culture of the human civilization."
Hari-śauri: It's on the tape. I'm recording it too.
Prabhupāda: So, "A preliminary booklet is presented herewith to your good self. Kindly read it carefully and let me know your reaction. We are prepared to answer all intricate questions in this subject." In this way present.
Prabhupāda: Cākriyaḥ. Read?
Hari-śauri: "The blessed Lord said: 'One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no work.' "
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Hari-śauri: "In this chapter the Lord explains that the process..." (break)
Prabhupāda: So this is sannyāsī. Sannyāsī is not the dress. This mentality, that is sannyāsa. So you have taken all prasādam? No.
Jayapatākā: Now you take rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So things are going nicely?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She wants some sort of a... Śrīla Prabhupāda's help is his books, his instructions. She wants some kind of a...
Prabhupāda: Mystic?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, mystical.
Prabhupāda: It is not possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Crystal ball.
Prabhupāda: It is not possible.
Translator: Another thing is that she has a husband, but they don't live together in the same ideas, spiritual ideas. So she wants to know what to do now. Should she go apart from the husband?
Prabhupāda: (break) You told me, from the siddhi...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Someone came this morning. He was asking that... He was hoping that because he had heard that you had some mystical powers, so he was hoping that you could help his situation by demonstrating some of these mystical powers.
Prabhupāda: Some magic. Our magic is already there. Throughout the whole world we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is not that magic? Foreign countries, foreign religion, and they are accepting Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is not that magic?
Indian man (1): It is.
Prabhupāda: Unique it is. There was no such proposal before. They have taken God as something mystic, imagination. Especially this rascal Darwin's theory, "People are animals," and they accept that "We are animals. My father was monkey." Very easy. This rascal has convinced them that "Your father, grandfather, were monkeys, and you are Sir Walton Rose(?)." "How I became a Sir Walton Rose, the son of a monkey?" This is their business. How much bluff. Disgusted learning and jump. A monkey has become man. Body's changed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is just nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: That is empty voice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, boy. He says, "The highly developed forebrain and the deeply convoluted cortex have helped him to think creatively. Scientists, as a general rule, are objective thinkers because they base their thoughts on empirical knowledge. Mystics and visionaries, the so-called spiritual scientists of Dāsa and Swami, on the other hand, build up their thoughts on their subjective perceptions. Books on chemistry, physics, mathematics, geography, history, geology, anthropology, paleontology, engineering, medical science, astronomy, etc., are the products of objective thinkers."
Prabhupāda: Big, big words, that's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "On the other hand, books like Arabian Nights, Gulliver's Travels..."
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purport. This material world is a manifestation of the three modes goodness, passion and ignorance, and the Supreme Lord, for the creation, maintenance and destruction of the material world, accepts three predominating forms as Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Śaṅkara (Śiva). As Viṣṇu He enters into every body materially created. As Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu He enters into every universe, and as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu He enters the body of every living being. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, being the origin of all viṣṇu-tattvas, is addressed here as paraḥ pumān, or Puruṣottama, as described in the Bhagavad-gītā (15.18). He is the complete whole. The puruṣāvatāras are therefore His plenary expansions. Bhakti-yoga is the only process by which one can become competent to know Him. Because the empiric philosophers and mystic yogīs cannot conceive of the Personality of Godhead, He is called anupalakṣya-vartmane, the Lord of the inconceivable way, or bhakti-yoga.
Jayādvaita: "One day when Kṛṣṇa, along with Balarāma, was maintaining the calves in the forest..." It's just up here. "Balarāma was astonished to see all the residents of Vṛndāvana so affectionate for their own children, exactly as they had been for Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, the cows had grown affectionate for their calves as much as for Kṛṣṇa. Balarāma therefore concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or by some powerful man."
Prabhupāda: Is it clear now? Balarāma was surprised to see the action of yogamāyā; therefore He inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "What is happening in this scene? What is that mystery?" Is it clear?
Prabhupāda: Word meaning?
Pradyumna: Evam-thus, in this way; sammohayan...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He wanted to mystify Kṛṣṇa and His companions. He himself became mohitaḥ.
Pradyumna: Bewildered?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that means Kṛṣṇa's mystic power more than him.
Pradyumna: Here it's said, sammohayan viṣṇum. Viṣṇum—the all-pervading Lord Kṛṣṇa. So Viṣṇu (Sanskrit). Vimoham—He who can never come under illusion, Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: Vimoham, yes.
Prabhupāda: Vimoham, yes.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: He cannot be mystified.
Pradyumna: Viśva-mohanam...
Prabhupāda: He is mystifying the whole universe.
Pradyumna: Svayaiva māyayā—by his own mystic power.
Prabhupāda: He became mystified, Brahmā.
Pradyumna: Ajo 'pi.
Prabhupāda: Instead of defeating Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated.
Prabhupāda: Samyak.
Pradyumna: Sam is there, but he cannot... samyak mohana kṛṣṇa. So why is it there? (Sanskrit) According his abhiprāya was there, but not actually doing.
Prabhupāda: His purpose was to mystify Kṛṣṇa, but he himself became mystified.
Pradyumna: And he has a note on the word viṣṇu. Viṣṇum iti sarva vyāpa kaṁ māyā(?)(Sanskrit—to bhava)
Prabhupāda: We must know, the whole material world... Brahmā is one of the portion. There are... Aṇḍāntara... How many universes? Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). Nāthāḥ, plural number. So there are innumerable universes, and this Brahmā is a tiny four-headed. That was exhibited in Dvārakā when Kṛṣṇa called for Brahmā. So what he can do to bewilder Kṛṣṇa? That is not possible. You pick up the idea.
| Page Title: | Mystic (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 27 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=64, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 64 |