Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, sometimes these people, they use the argument in the Twelfth Chapter, I think it's the second or third verse, Kṛṣṇa says that those who worship the impersonal Brahman, they are taking trouble. Those who worship the impersonal Brahman, they are taking much trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "But they also come to Me." So what does this "come to Me" mean? They use this to mean that the same result is there, whether you worship...
Prabhupāda: They come to Me after much trouble. That's all. So a foolish man will take much trouble. And intelligent man will take the short-cut, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Much trouble means he's a foolish man. And this is also stated, avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24). It's clearly stated there that the Absolute Truth is impersonal, but when He comes here, He appears as a person. So this conclusion is for the abuddhayaḥ, less intelligent class of men, poor fund of knowledge. Avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24).
Paramahaṁsa: It seems as if the more one strives to push the movement on, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the more māyā puts obstacles in the way.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Paramahaṁsa: It seems, the more we strive to push the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement forward, the more māyā puts obstacles in the way to stop us.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but as soon as you become strong, naturally there will be more enemies. That is natural. Therefore last night I said, "If there is no understanding of God, where is religion?" This is not religion, the cheating. There cannot be any conception of religion without conception of God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means the law given by God. So if you have no idea about God, where is your religion? Religion does not mean some formalities. No, that is not religion. Formalities we have also, but we have clear conception of God. Here is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.