Prabhupāda: So Nityānanda, He was with Him. When He saw that Lord Caitanya is in ecstasy, He misled Him just to... His plan was that "I shall take Lord Caitanya to the house of Advaita, and then I shall call His mother to see Him for the last time. If Caitanya goes away from this very point His mother will not be able to see Him." So out of sympathy He said, "Well, Śrīpāda Caitanya, this is not, this side is not Vṛndāvana. You go..." He just misdirected Him. So... And He sent one man to Advaita to receive Him that "He has taken sannyāsī, just try to make arrangement to receive Him. Then we shall meet." So when He came near the house of Advaita He saw that Advaita was waiting. So then He, I mean to say, came to His sense. "Oh, I am misled? I have come to Advaita's house? How is that Nityānanda? You showed Me this way Vṛndāvana."
Misleading (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, They are not separate, but it is pleasure. When They are separated, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, that is energetic, that is giving impetus. Just like the man and the woman, they come from the same source, but one body is energetic to the other. Man is energy to the woman. Woman is the energy to the man. Why the creation is not one kind of? Why there is fair sex? They're coming from the same womb of the mother. Why not one, boy only? Why girl? Why nature has provided like that? Let simply boys come. No. It is required. But the whole thing is perverted reflection. Here the man, woman, the energy... It is simply... But by this, one can understand the reality. Just like the shadow, the five fingers. One person who is not misled, he can understand that the original palm has five fingers, although he cannot see it. From the shadow. Similarly, from this energy, work of the energy in this material perverted reflection, one can understand that there is a reality.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Vedānta says that this human form of life is meant for inquiring about Brahman. Atha ataḥ. Now. Atha means now. Atha, hereafter. That means after passing through all animalistic way of life, when a man comes to the stage of civilized life, perfect civilized life, at that time his business is to inquire about the Absolute Truth, what is the Absolute Truth. That is the whole Vedānta philosophy, "What is that Absolute Truth?" The same thing is explained in Bhāgavata, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsa. Jīvasya means all living entities. The main business is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. So people, by education they are misled. Instead of getting them to the highest topmost stage, to the platform of inquiring about the Absolute, they are giving facilities how you can satisfy your senses nicely.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He took sannyāsa by previous arrangement. One day He went away from home, accompanied by Murāri and Lord Nityānanda, and went to Katwa. There was one Māyāvādī sannyāsī, Keśava Bhāratī, and He took sannyāsa from him. And then He was, in emotion He was going to Vṛndāvana, but He was misled by Nityānanda, and He was brought to the home of Advaita, and Advaita arranged to bring His mother to see Him for the last. So His mother and many people from Nabadwip came to Sant... Advaita's house was in Santipur. So there was, for a few days, Caitanya Mahāprabhu stayed there, and saṅkīrtana and prasāda distribution was going on.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is vijñāna. So jñāna knowledge, first knowledge, is what is God, what is God and what is my relation with Him. This is knowledge. Then you... When you act according to that knowledge, that is vijñāna. That is bhakti. When you understand fully well that "God is great, and I am a small minute part and parcels of God," and then you understand that the part and parcel's duty is to serve the whole... Is it not? Just like the finger is part and parcel of my body. Its duty is to serve the whole body. Similarly, if we accept, if we understand, that "I am part and parcel of God; then my duty is to serve God." But people are being misled that he is thinking God himself. Although he is under so many restrictions and stricture of the material nature.
Dr. Weir: Well, I'm sorry I think you're using the word cheat in a much broader sense. We would use cheat as conscious mistake as opposed to a person who doesn't realize that what he says doesn't happen to be true.
Prabhupāda: No, no, conscious... Suppose you think it is right but it is wrong. That is also cheating. Without knowing the thing perfectly well, if you deliver your knowledge to somebody that's cheating.
Dr. Weir: Well, I think that's being a bit hard when a person is not... If he's tried his best to do something and he doesn't intend to mislead, to call that cheating is a bit hard.
Prabhupāda: No, even if not intend, but if you misguide some way or other without sufficient knowledge, that is also cheating.
Dr. Weir: Oh, I'm sorry, that's the place (indistinct) I thought you meant the battle was still on.
Prabhupāda: No. Battlefield, where the battle was fought, took place, that is still there. There is a railway station, Kurukṣetra. And that Kurukṣetra is still dharmakṣetra, a religious place. People go on pilgrimage, and in the Vedas also it is stated that Kurukṣetra is (Sanskrit), you perform religious rituals in Kurukṣetra. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). It is fact, historical fact. It is not imagination. But many commentators have taken as imagination. Therefore they are misled. It is historical.
Devotee (5): There are some Christians who are actually sincere and they feel as though they are doing the proper thing, but they are just misled by the fact that there is no paramparā system coming from Lord Jesus. The churches are teaching the wrong thing, but they are sincere. (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa will direct them (indistinct) the proper authority?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If they are actually following strictly the principles of Jesus Christ, then sometimes when he meets some pure devotee, he will accept. The groundwork will be nice for accepting farther advancement. Just like Jesus Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." So if anyone follows this principle, "No, I shall not kill," then he becomes purified. But who is that Christian who is not killing? So where is follow? Amongst the Christians the more killing process is going on very strongly. So who is a Christian? In that, if you disobey the first principle of Christianity, then where is your Christianity? Why you falsely claim that you are a Christian? "Thou shalt not covet."
Devotee: They are gambling and eating flesh right in the churches, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, I mean to say, if you don't follow the Christian principles, how you can claim yourself to become a Christian and how you can ask Jesus Christ to take responsibility for you? These are misleading, therefore people are coming disgusted. Otherwise Christian religion is all right. It teaches love of Godhead, teaches to become moral, it teaches to love people, that's nice. These are good principles.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Gītā is the preliminary study of Bhāgavatam.
Guest: True, but in Bhāgavatam there is lots of danger, so far as Sri Kṛṣṇa goes. The Bhāgavatam, so far as it relates to the other incarnations of Mahā-Viṣṇu Himself, different, but so far as Sri Kṛṣṇa goes, it deals with a chapter of His life which can mislead people...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are very cautious.
Guest: Huh?
Prabhupāda: That we are very cautious.
Guest: You will have to be very cautious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was discussing this point...
Guest: Generally, generally people begin to think, "I am Sri Kṛṣṇa..."
Prabhupāda: Ah, that is nonsense.
Guest: "...God." That is what happens.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're called cannibals.
Prabhupāda: That is also. And they eat white man very... They like white.
Yadubara: In the pot.
Prabhupāda: They will mislead some white man and... In India also there is this class. In Assam side. They eat man. Man means they regularly sacrifice before the Goddess Durgā and eat. (indistinct), Rāvaṇa's brother. The Red Indians, they also eat in America. Do they not?
Yamunā: They used to. There are no left anymore.
Prabhupāda: "Used to" means who knows what they are doing now.
Yamunā: The white men came and killed them.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but they kill for eating. That is..., fighting or for taking possession, killing, that is everywhere. that is not extraordinary. But killing for eating a man, that is extraordinary. (chuckles)
Prabhupāda: I have already explained our philosophy.
Author: I'm sorry, not explain. Describe, I think, is a rather better word.
Prabhupāda: That philosophy, if you want to know more, then we can speak more. But that is the outlines of the philosophy, that people, without knowledge of his identification, they are misled, being misled. And that is very risky. Risky means that you have got this opportunity of understanding your position and get out of the difficulties of birth, death, old age, and disease. If you do not properly use this opportunity and again you become cats and dogs, then are you not misled? So present civilization is misleading. They are concerned with a few years enjoyment, so-called enjoyment. Suppose you are Australian or American. You have got very nice status in your country, good house, good facility, good money, and that's all right. But after your death, when you have to quit this subtle atmosphere, then after your death what is happening to you, you are not concerned to know?
Prabhupāda: Some work is going on there?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, under there is a tunnel being excavated, under the mountain, under the Hanging Garden Park to the other side. And it will go along Chowpatti Expressway and under the mountain and then along Nipensi(?) Road.
Devotee (1): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and don't be misled by these rascals. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ. So you have to change this. This is scratching. It is very rough.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. We need some smooth sheeting here.
Prabhupāda: Or you can take one my cloth and change.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You have no right. Suppose I have written one book. So I have got some intention. So why should you interpret my intention with your intention? What right you have got? You have no right. If you want to speak something of yours, then you write another book. Why you are taking advantage of my book and misleading others? I want to speak to the public something, I have expressed my opinion in that way. But because it is popular, you are taking advantage of my book and expressing your views. How much cheating, how much cheater you are! Therefore he is suffering, Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has lost his brain. We went to see him, Dr. Radhakrishnan, when I was in Madras.
Bob Cohen: And how does Kṛṣṇa control a devotee?
Prabhupāda: Just like you control your beloved. Just like you have got a beloved child. So you control him, for his benefit. If he's going to touch fire, you immediately say to him, "No, no, my dear child, don't touch it." So a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, devotee, he is never misled, because Kṛṣṇa is always guiding him, whereas those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they're in charge of māyā, and māyā will do the needful, as you have seen(?).
Bob Cohen: Is is preset when we're born, the time that we'll die?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bob Cohen: Is the time that I'm going to die, and everybody going to die, is this preset before they're born? Do I have, when I'm born, do I have a certain given lifespan?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And he cannot change that?
Prabhupāda: No. He cannot change, but Kṛṣṇa can change.
Prabhupāda: If one gets a diamond, he possesses something valuable. But in this civilization you are simply making plastic plates and plastic cups. Indeed, in Japan I have seen pasteboard homes. And everyone is thinking that he is advanced. Formerly people used to have golden and silver utensils, but now they have plastic ones, and still they are very proud to be so materially advanced. What is your position? You have a bunch of paper and think, "I am a millionaire." What is the value of that paper? Is that not cheating? However, if we possess gold or diamonds worth a million dollars, that is actual wealth. But we are educated in such a way that we think we are millionaires by paper only. As soon as there is some catastrophe, millions of such dollars could not buy bread. This actually happened in Germany; millions of marks could not purchase one piece of bread. All this is going on in the name of advancement of civilization, and the real purpose of life, God consciousness, is missing. So every thoughtful man should come forward to understand this movement and take it seriously. Why are the people being misled? We just have to try to understand this philosophy, the basic principles of God consciousness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If the starting point is wrong, then there is nothing...
Prabhupāda: Then there cannot be any perfect knowledge. So the modern so-called scientists, philosophers, their starting point is wrong. Just like a great scientist... Darwin is a scientist?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's not a scientist. He's called a naturalist.
Prabhupāda: Naturalist. Anyway, you can call him a philosopher. So the basic point is wrong. Starting is wrong. Starting point is mistake and illusion. Therefore, the next point is cheating. If you start from wrong conception of life, then if you distribute knowledge, that means cheating. You do not know, still you are distributing knowledge. But this rascal Darwin, he has no clear idea. He is simply theorizing, speculating, and misleading people. Therefore, he is cheating. So if I cheat you and you cheat me, then how you can expect perfection of life? It is a society of cheating, and that is actually going on. Everyone is thinking, "How I have gorgeous way cheated you." That is politics, diplomacy. If you can cheat your friend very cleverly, then you are supposed to be very big man. Big lawyer means the law is there, but if he can cheat the law, then he is big lawyer.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of becoming Indian or Indonesian or African or Asian or this or that. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You know. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śvapāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Because paṇḍita does not see the outward dress, paṇḍita sees the inside, who is putting on the dress. Therefore, without misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā, or being misled by so-called big, big leaders, if you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it will be very nice, beneficial to everyone. That is my, not opinion, but is the fact. Things should be taken as it is. Call a spade a spade. Now, interpretation is required when things are not clear. When things are not very clear, not easily understood... There is example in Sanskrit grammar, gaṅgāyāṁ ghoṣa bali(?). The neighborhood of ghoṣa family is on the Ganges. Now, on the Ganges-Ganges is water—how there can be a village? Now, here interpretation required.
Prabhupāda: Just like Bhagavad-gītā: dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Now Kurukṣetra is still there, in..., about 90 miles away from Delhi. Perhaps you have been there. The station is there, Kurukṣetra. Now how one can interpret that kurukṣetra means this body? This is going on. In spite of clear understanding, they interpret in their own way so that they have got their own philosophy, they want to support. This is going on. So if you kindly avoid this misleading interpretation, and if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you get the science of God, science of religion, which is applicable either to Indonesian or Indian or African or American, everyone. The science is appreciated everywhere. Two plus two equal to four, this mathematical science is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter whether one is a Christian or Hindu or Muslim.
Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ brahmāsmi is the Vedic version, that is all right. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi means, "I am spirit. I am not this body." So 'ham means, "I am the same quality as God." But they are misinterpretation: So 'ham means, "I am God." This is nonsense. This is going on.
Guest (2): That's misleading.
Prabhupāda: Misleading. People have become nonsense. (conversation between the two Indonesian guests) You have published Bhagavad-gītā with commentary or simple translation?
Guest (2): With commentaries.
Prabhupāda: So whose commentary you have followed?
Guest (2): We try to take from various books and we try, at first we have to understand clearly their positions, then we put them in a simple way that everybody can understand it clearly. Only the part that's very difficult to (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Now here, Bhagavad-gītā, in the Fourth Chapter it is said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). You can open to the Fourth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: So this Vedānta-sūtra, the Vedānta-sūtra is the summarized study of all Vedic knowledge. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. So people are in darkness about this great knowledge and the science of God, all over the world. They are misled. They're being misled. Misled in this way, that this human form of life is specially meant for understanding God. The animals are not very (indistinct), but the present leaders they're keeping all the human being in the animal condition of life. Their chance of becoming conscious about God is being sacrificed, being misled, by so-called economic development, plans. All this economic development means, they're meant for this bodily comforts. Any department of knowledge at the present moment, they're simply aiming at giving some artificial comfort to this body. But these rascals, they do not care to know that however I keep this body comfortably, I'll have to give it up.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When somebody does like that, people will give him Nobel prize.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhāgavata: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). A big animal is being praised by dogs, and hogs, camel, monkeys. So they're getting Nobel Prize from dogs, hogs, camels. They're not getting Nobel Prize from any sane man. That is stated. Śva-viḍ. Śva means dog. Viḍ-varāha means the stool-eater, hog. Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra. Uṣṭra means camel. And kharaḥ means ass. So they're being praised by these classes of animal. They're not human being. If anyone gives Nobel Prize to such rascals, that means the man, the committee, who is giving the Nobel Prize to him, they are composition of these animals, dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. According to Bhāgavata. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I think I have explained it.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They are not... We don't accept them as human beings. We accept them as animals. So one animal is being praised by other animals. That's all. And that is no credit. That means if, at the present, if anyone gets Nobel Prize, that means he's fool number one. That is the... Because the other animals are praising. No human being.
Devotee: Yes. yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But that is the ultimate aim for the scientists.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Scientists means they are rascals. They're talking nonsense. And because they are putting the matter in some jugglery of words, other fools are being misled.
Brahmānanda: That Nobel Prize, the Nobel, he's the one who discovered the dynamite which has caused so much destruction in the world. But he made a big fortune. So all that money, he's now pushing for...
Prabhupāda: Another misfortune.
Prabhupāda: Shameless. Shameless men. We cannot say even gentlemen. A gentleman will be shameful, ashamed to speak something nonsense.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They do not think.
Prabhupāda: That means they are not human being. A human being thinks twice before saying anything. Animals.
Karandhara: And all the innocent, they're all misled.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, that is our protest. That you remain a rascal at home. Why you are misleading others?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're spoiling themselves, but, not only that, they want to spoil others also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their business. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). (pause) Kṛṣṇa so easily simplifies the matter. They'll not accept it. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir... (BG 2.13). In two lines, he solves the whole biological problems. In two lines. That is knowledge. Minimum words, maximum solution. That is knowledge. And talking nonsense and no meaning. Books, volumes of books, talking nonsense and there is no meaning. Is that knowledge?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Break) All these scientists, they discover so many things. Why they did not discover something that he would not die? He would not become old? Where is that discovery? They will say: "Yes, in future." One man is kicking on your face, and you are saying: "Yes, in future, when I shall become strong, I shall kick him." But you are, my dear sir, being kicked now. What you are doing now? "Yes, I'm getting strength by your kicking." So you all write very strongly, vehemently. Even it is little offensive, still these rascals should be taught good lesson. Yes. They're misleading. Godlessness. As soon as you say "God created", immediately they become arrogant. That is our protest. If they accept God, then we give them all credit. That's all right. Otherwise zero. We don't deprecate their intention of advancement in knowledge. But we simply protest against their defying the authority of God. That is our point.
Prabhupāda: So if they admit they have no perfect knowledge, how they can say there is no God, or there is God? They cannot say.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very doubtful.
Prabhupāda: Doubtful. That means not perfect knowledge. So how they can say that there is no God. They can say: "Yes, there may be or may not be. We do not know." That is a gentleman. How they can say there is no God? And people are misled. "Oh, such and such scientist has said there is no God. Therefore there is no God." He does not know that he's a perfectly foolish. His statement has no value. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), because he has posed himself as a very big man, people follow him blindly and they're misled.
Karandhara: Like the Russians...
Prabhupāda: Oh, they are set of fools.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They do not believe in God, the Russians?
Prabhupāda: No. They are all rascals. I have studied them in one week.
Prabhupāda: ...is that the whole world is running on a false theory that life is born out of matter. But that is not a fact. So how to defeat this theory? That is our business. We have to defeat this rascal theory. We have to challenge all these rascals and defeat them. How it is possible?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: By logic.
Prabhupāda: By logic, by science. Anyway, that we have to make program. Because this is most misleading. The whole human society is affected by this misleading theory. We have to make program, go from place to place and invite all big men, all scientists. That program we have to make. We cannot allow this nonsense theory to go on. We must make something. Brahmānanda, how to make this? This is a fact, that, that life comes from life. In another sense life does not come. Life is existing. It is not exactly the word that life generates, no. Life is existing. The matter is generated. Matter is generating, and it stays for some time, again it is vanished. Just like this body. This body is born at a certain date, and it will be finished at a certain date. This is matter. (break) The wood was born at a certain date from the tree. It remains green for certain time. Then it is not green, dry. Then, after some time, it will be finished. Matter is not permanent. Matter is changing.
Prabhupāda: Life, yes. They are searching after the original source. That is life, Kṛṣṇa, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all causes. So this is not theory; this is fact. Now we have to prove it. Then the whole program of these rascals' theory will be changed, and people will be happy. Because they are standing on a wrong theory, all their calculations are wrong, and people are suffering. The rascal Darwin's theory. So many, based on this foolish theory, wrong conception of life. So we have to challenge, protest. defeat. This will be our work. Our worshiping of Kṛṣṇa, that is our internal affair. The external affair—we need to establish this theory. Otherwise they'll be leading this society. Misleading. They are misleading, not leading, misleading. So we have to stop this misleading. Make program how to do it. Because it is truth, you will come triumphant. There is no doubt about it. It is truth. Now you have to know how to present the truth. That is your business. We are not presenting something theories, concocted by my brain. No. This is the fact. Rudimentarily we have got evidences, but it has to be presented by the modern ways. They are presenting some wrong principle by propaganda, and we cannot establish real principle by factual presentation? What is the difficulty?
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. They are animals. These animals, they do not know the actual fact, and they are passing on as leaders, professors, scientists. Why they should be allowed? There must be some protest against these men. They have no real knowledge. They say, "I do not know," and still, they are passing as poet, er, scientist laureate. Why this should be allowed? Think over this matter seriously. You cannot tolerate this misleading. People are innocent. It is our duty to become merciful upon them, to give them real knowledge. And these people are misleading. There must be strong protests against these rascals. You can immediately write one article in some paper that "These rascals has earned, what is called prize, Nobel Prize, and he does not know." Immediately write one article. "His position is 'does not know, does not, do not, does not,' and he is getting this prize." So they are also dogs, hogs, asses, and he's a big ass, that's all. I have explained this in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Take help. They are creating also dogs, hogs, in university?
Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: By our desires we are pulled?
Prabhupāda: No. You desire. There it is. That's how. It is not willingly because you are willing desires against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore she's giving chance, "Come on here. Take stool. Become hog. You wanted to eat stool. Come on." This is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This also shows the eternal nature of the spirit soul?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not eternal.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because I'm conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore your consciousness is being revived. Come to the standard of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll be happy. That is our business. His consciousness is being misled by so many ways. Therefore we are trying to give him the standard consciousness, "Come to this point, you'll be happy."
Mr. Wadell: Well, you see, what you are... In that case, I should have to pretend, you see. I would have to pretend to know something which I did not know at all. Then I should be a cheater, wouldn't I. And that would be wrong. And there must be many things which I do not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is better to become honest. If I do not know anything perfectly I should not be teacher. That is right thing. And if I have got doubtful knowledge, perhaps, maybe, why shall I be teacher. I should, "No, no I cannot teach. The subject is unknown." That is our process.
Mr. Wadell: Yes. I must say that I, there are many things of which I haven't got knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. That is going on. Therefore people are misled.
Mr. Wadell: No. I would mislead them more if I said that I knew.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no. If you do not know, why should you say you knew? That is another cheating.
Mr. Wadell: How do you mean?
Prabhupāda: If... When you know...
Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes, I don't pretend. If I know something, I say I know, but...
Prabhupāda: Then you say that..., you say, "I know."
Mr. Wadell: But when I do not know something then I admit that I do not know it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That admission, that's all right. But in that case, one should not take the post of the teacher. That is our Vedic injunction. One must know perfectly.
Prabhupāda: Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga. So people are being misled. Actually, the human being, the form of human life, is distinct from animal life. So if we live like animals, then we are missing the chance. At the present moment, this is the position. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement strictly on the basis of this Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, there is everything explained.
Prabhupāda: So, if big, big scholars say, when Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... (BG 18.65). The scholars say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." You see? If now, I can frankly say, if leaders like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi and others, they mislead people, then how the people will be in normal condition? This is the position of India at the present moment. The leaders... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The leaders are blind. They have no training. They are not in disciplic succession. They do not know what is what, and they are taking the part of leadership, then everything is spoiled. Jāti-dharma, kula-dharma. And they have created varṇa-saṅkara.
Prabhupāda: Just like Arjuna accepts. He heard Bhagavad-gītā. So before that, Nārada accepts. Vyāsadeva accepts. Great... Later on, big, big ācāryas accept. So these are the proof. But what proof he can give that he's God, that we shall accept him God? Simply he shows some light. We have to make some propaganda. That will be our (indistinct). And he has to be... If we remain silent, then whatever he says, that means we are accepting. So we should not allow this man to grow popularity. We must make propaganda wherever meeting is there. I can kick on the face of this (indistinct). I can urine on the face of... What can he do. Let them. Let him come. If he's God, then let him kill me by his power. When I go to kick on his face, let him stop me, then I shall accept that he's God. So why don't you do that? He's saying God. You just kick on his face, if he can do something... In this way, make some counter-propaganda. If we allow him to go on, then so many people falsely being misled.
Prabhupāda: Dolls, dolls means just like doll-player, they make the dolls dance. It is like that.
David Lawrence: Yes, as He wishes.
Prabhupāda: Puppets, yes, puppets.
David Lawrence: Yes. I mean is that to be taken again literally or is there, as you say, a figurative meaning there in terms of faith?
Prabhupāda: No, that is literally. Because gopīs were just dancing according to Kṛṣṇa's desire. They are so devotees that whatever Kṛṣṇa desires, they are prepared to do.
David Lawrence: See, without being too irreverent, it seems a strange thing to get young ladies to undress in front of you.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say...
David Lawrence: I'm probably misunderstanding it you see.
Prabhupāda: ...it will be difficult for ordinary persons. Still, as far as possible, I have tried to explain for understanding of the ordinary people. By general reading, it is not difficult.
David Lawrence:. This is the sort of problem one comes across, whether in fact... You see, having grown up in what was really a very liberal, critical attitude...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, this portion of Kṛṣṇa's life is depicted on the Tenth Canto. Nine Cantos are devoted to understand Kṛṣṇa. So without understanding Kṛṣṇa if one tries to read the life and pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, it may be misleading.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says. Why he should interpret in that way? Kṛṣṇa personally says that "You become My devotee." And he says "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Why? He has no right to say like that. This way, these people mislead. If he is commenting on Bhagavad-gītā, he must present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Why he gives his own opinion? If I say, "Give me a glass of water," how you cay say, "No, it is not to him?" How you can say? Is that very good thing? That Radhakrishnan has done. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. He says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, person." Just see.
Prabhupāda: Just like Vivekananda taught, "Oh, why you are seeking after God? Don't you see so many gods are on the street? They are hungry. They are lame. They are daridra-nārāyaṇa. Why don't you worship them?" This is Māyāvādī. So if we take Vivekananda's version, and be engaged in the service of the daridra-nārāyaṇa, then I am misled.
Prabhupāda: For practical example you can see in European countries the Bhagavad-gītā was being studied at least for two hundred, three hundred years, but there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa, not even. Within the history. And now they are studying Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, you will find thousands of kṛṣṇa-bhaktas. They are not given the chance to understand Bhagavad-gītā by misinterpretation. "This means that, this means that, Kṛṣṇa means this, Kurukṣetra means body." Misinterpretation, misled. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and people are accepting and becoming seriously devotee of Kṛṣṇa. They are surprised, the newspaper reporters. They inquire from me, "Swamiji, why younger generation is attracted with this movement?" And younger generation, they are inquisitive. Old fools, whatever they have learned they have to forget again. Then they will, it will take some time. They have learned something wrong. So one has to be washed of these wrong impressions; then he can come to the point of understanding Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: We are not after the post, but we have to disclose this rascaldom, that "All these rascals, animals, fools, they are taking the post of leader, and you are suffering repeatedly, but you have no sense that 'How we can be happy with this Nixon and company's leadership?' " So therefore we want to disclose the fact, that's all. We have no ambition. Just like we are brāhmaṇas. We have nothing to do, but according to Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas guides the kṣatriyas how to rule. So our position is to reform the politicians. We are not going to compete with them, we have no business, neither we have time. But because people are suffering—we want everyone to be happy-therefore we want to reform these rascals. That is our goal. What we shall do taking part in politics? We have no business. But our real aim is how people will be happy. That is our real aim. So these rascals are leading, misleading. Therefore we want to check them.
Prabhupāda: His energy is unlimited. He can create millions of sun. He has already done it. But still, He's the same. Nothing is lost in His energy. That is God. That is acintya-śakti. Here you have got some money. You spend it. Next day it is all zero. So God never becomes zero. That is God. These rascals, they say ultimate truth is zero, śūnyavāda. They do not know. God is never zero. He's always positive. So you must have a clear idea of God, you theologician. You take all these ideas from Vedic description. Don't be misled by fools and rascals. Here is the God—full energy. There is no loss of energy. That is God. Our energy is lost. Just like I have lost my youthful energy, so God is not like that. That is the difference between God and me. I cannot walk so swiftly or eat more, or so many other things as a young man can do.
Devotees: Guru Maharaji?
Prabhupāda: Guru Maharaja, Dr. Mishra, and this and that, they'll go. They'll not go to the real person. The real person is strict. Suppose somebody comes here, if he comes to me. I shall immediately order, "You have to do this." But these rascals, they do not say that. They (say), "You pay me, and you become perfect." That is their proposal. So your money is very cheap. They pay and flock together. That is going on. That is called sumanda-mataya, misled. Manda, by nature they are rascals, and if they take some path, that is sumanda-mataya, again rascaldom. Why? Manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate, disturbed. They cannot find out. Therefore real guru has to canvass. This is the position. Shortage, alpāyus, they are not going to live for many years, and most of them are unfortunate rascals, and if they are eager to accept a guru, they accept a false guru, and they are materially disturbed. This is the position of the people of this age. So against so many disturbances and counter-facts, we have to preach.
Hṛdayānanda: We have one devotee who was a member there. Now he is a devotee. There is one of our members. He is just a young boy and he went to the Guru Maharaji, and then when he heard our philosophy, now he is with us. Bāṇabhaṭṭa. Now he is a nice devotee. Just as you always say that a sincere person cannot be misled.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help him. (break)
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Nāsato vidyate bhāvo nā..., asataḥ vidyate bhāvaḥ. What is the next line? So, we take things which is conclusive. The scientists, they are making experiment, where is the beginning of life. Misled. They are thinking life is from matter. They have no experience. Still, the rascal Darwin gave a theory. They are persisting on it. They have no practical experience that life is coming from matter. That is called vṛścika-taṇḍula-nyāya. You have no experience in your country. We have got. Sometimes you'll find, scorpion is coming out from the stack of rice.
Karandhara: "Real leaders of human society."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That... You have seen that design I have given?
Karandhara: No, I haven't seen it.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is not yet done?
Karandhara: No, it's being worked on.
Prabhupāda: Hm. You can give him the rough idea. That will be very nice propaganda, to select real leaders of the society. The... We are misled by rascal leaders. That is the difficulty, all rascals. If the society is led by real, learned scholars, then it will be nice. Qualified leaders. That is wanted. Leader means better qualified man to lead others. That is leader. Leader does not mean he is himself a fool and leading other fools. (break)
Viṣṇujana: Prabhupāda, they say they've already done so much. The scientists will say...
Prabhupāda: What they have done? What they have done? Why people are starving? What you have done?
Viṣṇujana: But they'll say we have created so much machineries and gone to the moon.
Prabhupāda: You cannot eat machine. You produce. You produce rice, wheat in the machine. What you have done? You have simply misled the people that instead of tilling the ground, they have come to machine, and there is no food.
Devotee: Ten rupees Kg. For one rupee (indistinct) first-class wheat.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So if one is rascal, they will be misled by this. Otherwise, any sane man will not accept. They say that, "We have done so much." What you have done? You have done this. At least in India, the effect of machine and factories: that there is no rice, no food.
Prabhupāda: A Vaiṣṇava has no problem. Because he has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, he has no problem. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Kṛṣṇa also gives guarantee, "Anyone who has taken shelter of My..., he is saved. I will give him protection." Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ mokṣayiṣyāmi sarva... Everything is there. For Vaiṣṇava there is no suffering, personally. But he is very much anxious: "How these rascals will be happy?" That is his business. "These rascals are misled. They are going astray, unhappy. So how they should be happy?" So that is Vaiṣṇava's business. So the Vaiṣṇava, therefore, will have no politics. Politics means planning for one's own happiness. That is politics. So in our society there should be no diplomacy, no politics. Everyone should be eager how to do good to others. That is Vaiṣṇava. If he's planning something, that "I shall be leader," "I shall be doing something," that is not Vaiṣṇavism. That politics is not good.
Mākhanalāl: There was that one notable, so-called incarnation. He supposedly lost all his potency be...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Mākhanalāl: He said he gave away all his potency...
Prabhupāda: He's a rascal. What potency he has got?
Dr. Patel: Who?
Prabhupāda: Any rascal who has called himself incarnation of God. There are so many rascals.
Mākhanalāl: Wasn't that Ramakrishna who said he gave away everything; he had nothing more except...
Prabhupāda: What Ramakrishna? Don't talk of these nonsense. Simply they have misled. That's all.
Dr. Patel: Simply you bhaja Kṛṣṇa and don't think anything else. And you get all your intelligence there.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa has said, mām ekam. "Don't go to these foolish rascals." Mām ekam. Otherwise you'll be misled. Because they are misleaders, rascals.
Dr. Patel: You are so very hard.
Prabhupāda: I must be hard!
Dr. Patel: Understanding God is always supraconscious with them. Never by the mind.
Prabhupāda: They... One has to rise, rise... understand rightly from the right person. He cannot. He's imperfect. How he can understand rightly?
Dr. Patel: Yes, that's right.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: If a man has seen a place, that man will show you that place. That is how it is.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): But to reach that place there are several ways.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, tattva-darśinaḥ. You have to approach a person who has seen the truth. You don't manufacture your own truth. That will be misleading. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is Vedic instruction. In order to understand scientifically, you must approach a guru.
Prabhupāda: "Because of My direction." Hetunānena. "On this account." Mayādhyakṣeṇa. "Under My Supreme control." Just like these boys and girls, my students, they are working under my direction. They are individuals, I am also individual. And they have got their independence, to obey or not to obey, but still, they are directed under my supervision. Similarly, this material nature has got individual power. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). But still, yasya icchānurūpam api ceṣṭate sā. That material nature is working under the direction of the Supreme Person. Therefore govindam ādi-puruṣam. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: We call him Baby. He is innocent like a baby.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very good qualification. But sometimes babies are misled. (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is His inconceivable potency. Everything is resting on Him. Without Him, there is nothing. Nothing can exist. Still... The same argument comes again, that because the dog or the anything is resting on me, it does not mean I am dog. Daridra, he is resting on me, that does not mean I am daridra. Yes. This is the... This is wrong conception, misleading people. This kind of coined word, simply misleading people.
Dr. Patel: Na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have nothing to do with daridra. He is suffering of his own karma.
Dr. Patel: But here a little difficulty for me. Here on the first line He says, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). Second line He says, na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni paśya me yogam aiśvaram.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Therefore, na ca mat-sthāni: "Although I am there, I am not there." That is inconceivable, simultaneously not also, just to warn these people that although Nārāyaṇa is within the daridra or the dog, that does not mean I am dog or I am daridra.
Girirāja: (reads rest of synonyms for this verse) "Translation: If you think that I am able to behold Your cosmic form, O my Lord, O master of all mystic power, then kindly show me that universal self."
Prabhupāda: Now, here is the description of how God manifests. So unless one reads Bhagavad-gītā carefully, they will be misled by this avatāra, that avatāra, that avatāra. You see?
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda writes.
Indian Man (1): The same thing happens with so many other books also because it is not known properly to proper persons...
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Why do they touch of writing books? They are foolish people. Why they should attempt to write books and mislead others? That is our protest. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa's life in two big, big volumes.
Indian Man (1): But these volumes are very short, sir.
Prabhupāda: Yes, no, the lowest. But they have not written even a page about Kṛṣṇa's life. And writing comments on Bhagavad-gītā. Just see how much rascal they are. Not even a page. Rather, they deny, "There was no Kṛṣṇa." Just see how much foolish they are, and they are writing comments on Bhagavad-gītā. That is our regret, that how these rascals dare to write on Bhagavad-gītā? (break)
Indian man (1): You see? So I discovered that there is no ghost, and I explained to them...
Prabhupāda: No, that is also possible. Sometimes we are misled. But ghosts, in every country, there are so many books, and especially it is mentioned in the Vedic literature also. Bhūta-preta-yoni. Bhūta-preta-yoni. That is described. Out of many forms of life, these bhūta-preta-yonis is also. Nana-yoni. Nana-yoni. There are different sources of birth. So bhūta-preta-yoni is also mentioned there, species of life. (break) Bhūta-preta is mentioned.
Guest (7): Are the teachings themself spiritual?
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all try to understand that what is the defect. The defect is that malinterpretation, bad interpretation. Interpretation is required when a thing you cannot understand. But if a thing is clearly understood, why you interpret to mislead the leader? That is our protest. It is clearly understood. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Then what right you have got to say that "It is not Kṛṣṇa; it is something else"? That has misled our country. Do you admit or not? This misinterpretation. Why should you misinterpret in the Bhagavad-gītā? If you have got a different philosophy, you can write your own books, but why through Bhagavad-gītā? This is very dangerous. This is very, very dangerous. It has spoiled the whole country. You write your own philosophy. But why do you take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and misinterpret it and mislead the people? That is my protest.
Haihaya: If we have a world day every month, fasting world day. If we can fast, all the world can fast, all inhabitants of the world...
Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot expect that the whole world will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. You keep your standard. Don't be bewildered by these rascals. That is our proposal. We should not be misled by this rascal philosophy. We shall stick to our own philosophy. That is required. Because we know all their philosophy are defective. That is not perfect. So why shall I be misled by their philosophy? We shall stick to our own principle, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. That's all. Everyone should stick to the right philosophy. That is human sense. Not be biased and carried away by some whimsical way.
Haihaya: Yes, they give. But they say you must prostitute for it. You must prostitute for this food which we give you.
Prabhupāda: So is that very good proposal?
Haihaya: It's worst thing that one can propose. It's just to push man to degenerate himself because of this food, little food.
Prabhupāda: It is my practical experience. Śyāmasundara had to waste at least two to three hours to secure rice, fruits. Only milk and butter could we get. And then we had to wait in the... They would not allow us to cook unless they had finished. This was the difficulty. Practically I have suffered. All their claims are bogus. The people are not happy there. The young men are not allowed to go outside the country. Just see. All freedom lost. All freedom lost. It is a government of terrorism, that's all. And whatever the Communists do, simply by terrorizing that's all. They have no gentleman's method. Terrorizing. (break) ...misleading other rascals that "You come this way; you will be happy." And the rascals are being misled. They are accepting. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man is asking other blind men, "Come on, I shall cross you the street." But because he is rascal, he does not ask, "Sir, you are also blind. how will you lead us?" They cannot inquire. Or he does not know that "This man is asking me, who is willing to take the leadership, he is also blind." This blind man does not know, do not know. They do not know. This is going on.
Yogeśvara: Our temples. These big, big temples we have now.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to go everywhere. Wherever there is opportunity to instruct about this spiritual subject matter, we must go there. We should not have such discrimination, that city should be neglected. No. Why? They are also human being. They are misled. So we have to give them a little instruction. Everywhere. In cities there is possibility. Whatever we have collected, our men, that is from city, not from the village. So why should we neglect city? Where is the question? (break) All hobgoblin, the last word which I said, "dressing the dead body, decorating the dead body." The society has no brain; that means dead body. When a man's brain is gone, he is dead body, maybe he is living. He has no use.
Yogeśvara: ...the book glorifying the Russian ideals, he is thrown out of the country.
Prabhupāda: Just see. It is a country... People are not bad. I have seen. They are very nice. The government, the rascals, a few men, who are controlling the government, they are all rogues and thieves. The same thing in India. Everywhere mass population, they are innocent. These rascals made them..., misleading. In Russia I have seen. The mass people, they are very nice. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are innocent. In India also. The Pakistan happened due to these politicians. The Hindus, Muslims, they are innocent. They don't fight. These politicians engaged them to fight artificially for their political ambition. The wars also declared nowadays, on account of the rascal politicians. The people do not want it.
Yogeśvara: ...a nuclear physicist. So you have a very highly specialized field of knowledge. So it would be valuable to see also what is the contact of nuclear physics with the...
Guru-gaurāṅga: Spiritual physics.
Prabhupāda: The spiritual physics is... (laughter)
Robert Gouiran: Spiritual physics.
Prabhupāda: Yes, "spiritual physics" can be said.
Robert Gouiran: I should say that the word "science" is misleading. The word science is generally used by the opponent of science as a pejorative label. Because really, they don't know what science is. And they think that should be the enemy.
Yogeśvara: Let me relate the information little by little. He says "The word science is misleading. Generally the word science is used by people who are enemies of science to make it, to pinpoint it, that 'This is the enemy.' So they call it science, a general word."
Robert Gouiran: Exactly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are misleading. They have no knowledge, and they are misleading. The basic principle of knowledge... They have no idea of spiritual basic principle. They take material basic principle. Therefore the beginning of their knowledge is wrong.
Robert Gouiran: Wait, I say that taking aspirin is not a good healing.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is example. The disease is still there.
Robert Gouiran: Well, but it is by such example that we could be misled.
Prabhupāda: That is good thing, that is healing? Do you think honestly, there is healing? There is no disease?
Robert Gouiran: I have seen healings.
Prabhupāda: What is that you have seen, that he is not diseased? You have seen a man temporarily healed but why he suffers from another disease? Do you guarantee that there will be no disease? Can you guarantee?
Robert Gouiran: No more.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Robert Gouiran: No, because I don't know anything...
Prabhupāda: Then where is the healing? If there is disease, this disease... You simply distinguish from this disease to that disease.
Yogeśvara: He says, he says this is the answer from Ramakrishna. When you have a thorn in your foot, you take another thorn and pluck it out, and afterwards, you throw them both away.
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā does not say. Bhagavad-gītā says that "You surrender unto Me, and sustain this." Therefore he has misled. He did not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and he misled so many fools. That is his business. One thing is, Bhagavad-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. And Ramakrishna says that "You can accept any path." So this is against Bhagavad-gītā.
Pṛthu: So this lady's point is: where shall the bad man go after death?
Prabhupāda: He'll become a dog. (German)
Pṛthu: She says that this would mean that there is a hell. But she doesn't believe in hell.
Prabhupāda: He may not believe, but hell is there. If... You read this book. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). Read this verse. Just see how misbelief, that there is no hell. Just see. In this way, misled, whole world. The so-called rascal leaders mislead, "There is no hell. Don't believe in hell." Vivekananda said, "Yes. There is no hell." Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ.
Pṛthu: What is it?
Prabhupāda: Ūrdhvam. And she is a philosopher? (German)
Pṛthu: She says she is a primitive, simple man.
Prabhupāda: But still not willing to go to hell. (German) You found?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Read it.
Mādhavānanda: Sweden has the highest suicide rate.
Prabhupāda: Because that is horrible condition for any intelligent man. There is no day. Why they commit suicide in Sweden?
Mādhavānanda: Because it is horrible condition.
Prabhupāda: On account of that?
Mādhavānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, just see.
Mādhavānanda: So I hear.
Prabhupāda: So just see how Kṛṣṇa's management, nature's management, there is day and night, day and night, day and night. Otherwise it is horrible. If it is all simply day, it is horrible also. And if it is simply night, that is also horrible. So He is so kind He has given day and night, day and night. So do not be misled by this illusion as others are being. Stick to Kṛṣṇa to save. That is the only... Is Stockholm also like that?
Mādhavānanda: Yes. Who is from Stockholm? This is what I heard.
Prabhupāda: Even children are learning how to dance, how to offer obeisances, how to chant, how to clap. They are also learning, small children.
Prof. Pater Porsch: And I think that it comes at the right time so that people may not be misled into juvenile delinquency, all of those "easy riders" and motorcycles and adolescent criminality. They find creative outlets for their energies also as a by-product.
Prabhupāda: No. We are teaching... Of course, we do not defy this modern advance of material civil... We don't say that. But this is our main business, that is, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā, to inquire about the Absolute Truth.
Prabhupāda: So the Vaiṣṇava has no problem; he has got Kṛṣṇa. But he wants to preach to save these rascals. This is Vaiṣṇava's duty. But if he is fallen himself, how he can save others? That is not possible. Then it will be andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31), one blind man is leading other blind men. What is that? They will all fall into ditch. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, bharata-bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41), janma sārthaka kari': "First of all you be perfect, because you have got opportunity, and then do para-upakāra. Then go to other countries and deliver them." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Not that you remain blind and go there. Just like all these rascal swamis and yogis, they are blind. They do not know what is spiritual life. Andhā yathāndhair. They are blind, and their talks are simply big, big talks, (indistinct). Here also, this Rakhanananda(?), he is speaking on Bhāgavata. He is a rascal, blind; he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He is misleading others.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (1): We should dedicate our lives to preaching this message of Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes, preaching, preaching, you will become perfect preacher. Preach only what you have heard from Kṛṣṇa and guru, that's all. Don't add and subtract. Then you are secure. And if you add some concoction just like somebody says that "I may do whatever I like independently. If I chant, then everything is all right," this is nonsense addition. It is not the fact. That is the danger. Some inexperienced man, he introduces some concoction. Sometimes they say, "Prabhupāda said it." More misleading. Yes.
Prabhupāda: This kind of answer, that if I ask you that "You produce life from chemicals," and if you answer that "Yes, we shall do it in future," that is not very scientific answer. What do you think? Is that very scientific answer?
Mādhava: No. But that's what they think is scientific.
Prabhupāda: How it is scientific? Life is already there. Not that the life production is depending on your future scientific research. The life is already going there, hundreds and thousands and millions. You say that you do not know. Why you are claiming that "In future we shall know"? There is no need of your knowing, it is already going on. You do not know. That is your position. And still, you are declaring yourself as scientist. You are misleading. You can make a fool's paradise, that is another thing. But you do not know at the present moment, but the things are going on. Life is being produced without your knowledge. So you admit that you have no knowledge. And without having knowledge, you are declaring yourself as scientist—how much cheating it is. It is not that it is depending on your future knowledge. It is already going on. Life is being produced. So if you think that in future, by chemical combination you will produce life, so that chemical composition is already there, going on. So you have to find out who is that scientist, not that chemical composition. Who is that scientist who is producing so many lives and chemicals? That is real intelligence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, so He is God. Whoever has made the most, He should be God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rūpānuga: So we must recognize Kṛṣṇa as the big scientist.
Prabhupāda: That is... This foolishness is going on throughout the whole world, and scientist and people are after the so-called scientist, Darwin. So we want to stop this misleading. That is our duty.
Prabhupāda: So we are not scientist, but we speak from common sense. That's all. Yesterday or day before yesterday, I was talking on common sense on law points, so Rūpānuga said that "You are bigger than lawyer." I do not know that I am bigger than lawyer, but I was speaking on common sense. The difficulty is they are misleading. So many people are being misled by the so-called politician and scientist and... But Gandhi says... He has written so many nonsense things. One thing is that he said, "I do not believe that there was anybody as Kṛṣṇa living ever. Kṛṣṇa is of my imagination." These things he has written. And he is Mahatma Gandhi. Mahātmā's definition is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Mahātmā means devotee, who have understood vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). But these rascal politicians, they have become mahātmā. For politics, they can do anything, lie like anybody, and so many things.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they are illusioned.
Prabhupāda: Innocent?
Rūpānuga: Illusioned, illusioned.
Prabhupāda: Oh, illusioned, yes.
Rūpānuga: Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. They are so-called educated, doctors, but actually they have no knowledge. Simply they are bluffing, cheating. Where is the question of creation? So many millions and trillions of living entities are there, and they are making conference, "How to create from chemicals?" Just see this childish proposal. And wasting time and misleading person, and wasting hard-earned money of the state. And big, big foundation supplying them money. And if you ask, "Give us some money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness," "No, no, we are not interested in religion. We are interested in science, and this is the science." All fools and rascal, mūḍhā. That is our test. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a mūḍhā. Bas.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The last chapter is entitled "Intellectual Amalgam, Psycho-social Implications." That will be Rūpānuga...
Prabhupāda: What is it?
Rūpānuga: It was their idea. In a book like this there has to be some social conclusion as to the effects of such atheistic theories.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the people are being misguided. That we want to stop. They have got this human form of body, that is an opportunity to understand himself and God and act accordingly. Now they are being misled. It is a social disservice. Cheating. In the name of scientist, they are exploiting this innocent person, taking their money and spoiling it without any good result.
Prabhupāda: Even Gandhi, such an exalted man, he says that "I have no belief. I do not believe that there was any person as Kṛṣṇa ever living." Just see. All the big, big ācāryas of India who are practically controlling the destiny of the Hindu civilization or Vedic civilization, they all believe. Gandhi became more than them. Who made him, that is another thing. But he thinks like that, and because Gandhi thinks, just imagine how many millions of people have been misled. Similarly big, big scholars like Dr. Radhakrishnan, he says when Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), he said, "This is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, clearly it is stated, bhagavān uvāca Find out this verse. Please, you find out, somebody. Bhagavad-gītā here.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking of the Sufis. I am talking of the original Islam.
Yoga student: Well, the Sufis claim to be the original Muslims.
Prabhupāda: Do the all the Muslims accept them? Then?
Parivrājakācārya: There are about 780 different schools of Islam and different ideas.
Prabhupāda: Then? We have to take the original. Otherwise misled.
Yoga student: Well, I think the original path must be found in Sufism because that is the...
Prabhupāda: Then, if the original path is followed, why it is named Sufism?
Yoga student: Because there are those who have fallen away from it, just as in...
Prabhupāda: Who has fallen, the Islam or the Sufist?
Yoga student: I think the formalists have fallen away, like the jñānīs in Hinduism. Just as there's a dispute between the Shaivites and the Vaiṣṇavaites.
Prabhupāda: So who are fallen, the original Islam or the Sufist?
Yoga student: The Sufis are the original Islam.
Prabhupāda: Sufis? What? I do not follow. Sufis?
Guest (2): A lot of people in... Before I came to your temple in Toronto, in our family nobody is eating any meat. When I went West, I got it some, this point, and I was misguided by the different philosophies. So lot of misguiding and misled...
Prabhupāda: That is my rascaldom. Why I shall be misguided? I must know who is the right person.
Guest (2): They are fallen from. A lot of people in India, they have all misguided and misleading, their own adjusted, their own...
Prabhupāda: I have to gather knowledge from my superior. (Bengali) You came last night?
Guest (2): Ah, no, last evening.
Prabhupāda: So the ganja-smelling will be in my hand, not in your hand. This is going on. Why do they take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and preach their nonsense philosophy? That is our protest. You preach your nonsense philosophy. We have no objection. But don't touch Bhagavad-gītā. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What is the... Do you think it is honesty that you want to preach something of your own philosophy and you take advantage of my book and mislead others? Is that very good, honest business? This is going on. This is going on, very dangerous position. In our country, and what to speak of other countries, all these swamis, yogis, and politicians, and scholars, they are doing like this. Very dangerous position.
Prabhupāda: It is, it... There is no question of "but." Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). If you do not do that, then what is the use of your reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you do not follow these instructions of Kṛṣṇa, then where do you, why do you waste your time reading Bhagavad-gītā, and mislead others? That is our protest. All these misleaders... Perhaps, throughout the whole world, it is the first time—we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We are the only institution in the world that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and people are liking it. Before that, for the last two hundred years, so many swamis, yogis and..., they tried to preach Hindu philosophy, Vaiṣṇavism. Not a single person was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, not a single person. Now you see so many young men. Why? Why this difference? Because we did not present Bhagavad-gītā adulterated. Presented as it is, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, follow the rules and regulations, then your life will be successful. And so long you have got, this is also right, that is also right, then you will not do the right. You will all be misled. That's all. That is not (indistinct). What Kṛṣṇa says, that is right. That should be the (indistinct). Otherwise you will be misled. So we are trying to preach this philosophy in that way. Maybe, very small number, but ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasra. If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling. So that is our propaganda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to go.
Prabhupāda: We are discussing the same thing, we go or not go. (laughter)
Guest: People are waiting.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You are a young man therefore I am requesting you: don't be misled by these blind leaders. Take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and you'll be happy.
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: The meaning is clear, very clear. There is no question of interpretation.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Paramahaṁsa: But still, everyone in India respects Gandhi so much. They have statues and everything.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. He was a good gentleman. He was very humble, meek. Because you have got some fault, that does not mean you have no qualities. That is another thing. But if you deal wrongly with something, then you must be called a foolish man. You may have very good qualities, but if you do not know how to deal with business, then you are foolish. He was mainly engaged in politics, but he did not know how to deal with politics. He was reading Bhagavad-gītā and he was misleading people that in the Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. Just see. Because Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent the whole Bhagavad-gītā was taught to him, how to become violent, and this rascal said that in the Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. It is not false? So a man preaching falsehood, is he a gentleman? Or he is a right man?
Paramahaṁsa: No.
Prabhupāda: So that is his position. Either he is a foolish rascal or he is not a gentleman, falsely preaching Bhagavad-gītā. That is his position. If you do not know a subject matter, why do you talk about it? Either you mislead or cheat or you are a foolish, you have no science. Similarly, here is a tape recorder, I do not know how the machine is working. If I talk about it authoritatively is it not my foolishness? I can talk about Bhagavad-gītā or something else, but that does mean I know everything about this machine? But he did it like this. He was dealing in politics, and he took up as a mahātmā, a religious man. That was his cheating.
Paramahaṁsa: So because people are so much in darkness about religion, therefore they say...
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is in darkness. If you can make propaganda, the people will be misled. That is not very difficult. Just like from Russia, nobody is communist. But it is going on—the Russia is communist country. I have studied thoroughly. Nobody is communist. Maybe a few only. But it is going on by propaganda that Russia is a communist country. The people in general, they are forced to accept it. That book was written by some man, terrorism. It is terrorism. That's it. By force. Nobody accepts this communist philosophy, I have studied. (everyone gets out of car) They were very, very unhappy. The young man cannot go out of the country. Just see. Restricted. How much uncomfortable he is feeling. Especially in European countries, the young men, they want to go. But they will not allow. They will not allow anything to read except Lenin's literature. What is this? Simply suppressing. Everyone is unhappy. Which way? This way? This is their position. I have seen it directly. And as soon as one is suspected that he is doing otherwise, he will be sent to some unknown camp. Nobody knows where he has gone.
Carol: Is it possible to carry out that enquiry while you're engaged in activities?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the real enquiry. Wherefrom my life has begun? What is the ultimate goal of my life? Why I am put into these conditions which I do not like? Who is enforcing? These things should be asked. That is the proper enquiry of the human being. And we cannot solve the question of birth, death, old age and disease, and you are theorizing something utopian. What is the use of such advancement of knowledge? I live for fifty years and sixty years, and the Darwin's theory they are calculating gap of millions of years. There is a gap of millions of years, and we will live for fifty years. How we are taking calculation of millions of years? Speculation simply. And misleading people. An honest man should not mislead others. He should understand that his knowledge is limited. How can I say something theorizing? That is not very good business. And misleading people. I have no perfect knowledge. I am theorizing. What is the use? I have no actually accurate knowledge, and I am theorizing. I am misleading people. Big bluff. That is going on. An honest man should not take part in big bluffs. First of all you must have accurate knowledge, and I am theorizing. I am misleading people. Big bluffs. First of all you must have accurate knowledge. Then you bring knowledge to others. That is our proposition.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, and Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "No, no, it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Just see how misleading these rascals. Why you should interpret upon Kṛṣṇa's word? If you have got your own philosophy, you write another book. Why do you touch Bhagavad-gītā? This is their cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is a popular book. Gandhi also took Bhagavad-gītā for his political diplomacy. This is going on. And they'll never agree to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They'll never agree. The other day I was there in Kurukṣetra. They have got their own plan-mānava-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up all these. Kick out all this so-called rascaldom. You just surrender unto Me." That they will not do.
Hari-śauri: So those persons who do not take even their material predicament seriously, then it is the same when they approach, they see our devotees. They do not take us seriously.
Prabhupāda: No, they are given chance. Even they fall down, they guaranteed best life in the next birth, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41), to take birth in devotee's or nice brāhmaṇa's house. So they get again chance. So our point should be why another chance? Finish this business in this life. That is determination. Why another chance? I may be misled again. That should be our determination. "Finish this business, this life. One life let me be strict in following the discipline and regulative principles." This is called tapasya, that "Although it is inconvenient, I must do it to solve my problems." That is determination, dṛḍha-vrata, firm determination.
Prabhupāda: No, you do not do that. You do not do that. You will see Dr. Radhakrishnan says. When this, he is making comment on it, he said, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto māṁ namaskuru, and Dr. Radha..., he says "not to Kṛṣṇa." How he is misleading people! He is a great scholar, and he says "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, to the person." Just see. This dishonesty is going on. What right he has got to say like that? Did He, did He, Kṛṣṇa, left His Bhagavad-gītā to be interpreted by a rascal, "Not to Kṛṣṇa"? This is rascaldom. You cannot say. You must say what Kṛṣṇa says, if you take Bhagavad-gītā. But if you have got a different views, then you write your own book. Present, as many others philosophers are doing. I don't agree with you. You don't agree with me. That's all right. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. You cannot become a big philosopher unless you have got a different views. That is the way. If I don't defy you, then I am not a big philosopher.
Prabhupāda: They will say to him, "Love humanity."
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And this is very palatable. "Oh, Swami is for humanity." He is a rascal, he does not know. "Love humanity. Do not love Kṛṣṇa. Love humanity." And then people believe him. "By loving humanity, you love Kṛṣṇa or God." These things are very palatable. This is Vivekananda's philosophy. And most people say like that. "Love humanity." Oh, why humanity? Why not tiger? That they shall not. All bogus. Don't be misled by the bogus. Stick to your own principles. That's all. People may come or may not come. We don't care for them. We must speak the right truth. Why "people not coming"? People are not coming? We are getting more and more devotees.
Guest 1: They're trying. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. When you are trying to be a lawyer or barrister, that does not mean you are barrister. When you are a student of law you cannot say that "I am barrister," or "advocate," that you cannot say. You are trying to be, that is another thing. But while they are trying to be, they are taking the position of leader. That is the misleading. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). "One blind man is trying to lead many other blind men." What is the use of such leading? If the leader is blind, how he will do well to other blind men?
Brahmānanda: ...exposed. And they accuse us of idol worship.
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam (SB 10.14.58). This is a place—in every step there is danger. We are walking in a very nice park. At any moment there may be revolution, whole thing is changed. Whole thing is, becomes fire. Just like, in India now it has become. So we should remember that here in this material world, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam, every step there is danger. Give up this place. That is the real intelligence. And the education misleading them, māyā-sukhāya, making gorgeous plans for temporary happiness. That's all. If in the slaughterhouse the animals are kept very comfortably, so what is the meaning of it?
Prabhupāda: So in the material world everyone is busy how to satisfy the senses. Nobody is interested to satisfy God. So in this condition of life we are misled, misled in this way, that we have got this human form of body, very nice body, and if we are misled, instead of giving service to the Lord, if we simply are engaged in the service of the senses, then we become subject to the karma or fruitive activities. That means we get different types of body. There are 8,400,000 different types of body. So if we do not properly use this human form of body, if we become subjected to sinful life, then we get a different type of body, very—animal life, tree's life, plant's life, aquatic's life, insect life. Or even we are promoted to the higher standard of life, as in higher planets the demigods, the four principles of material miseries, namely birth, death, old age and disease, we cannot avoid, either in the higher planetary or in the lower planetary system. But if we want eternal life of bliss and knowledge, then we must endeavor in this life how to go back to home, back to Godhead.
Devotee: Separate quarters in the apartment. And the husband would not see his wife during the day?
Prabhupāda: No.
Makhanlal: So is this the standard we should develop in our movement?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. The example is the butter and fire should be kept separate as far as... Otherwise the butter will melt. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā (SB 9.19.17). The butter and..., means man and woman. A man is butter, and woman is fire. So this is restricted even the man happens to be father, brother or son. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā. People cannot think of sex impulse in the presence of daughter, mother or sister. But śāstra says "No. There is possibility." Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā na vivaktāsane vaset: "They should not be kept, should not sit together." Then people may say, "This is impossible. Maybe some tenth-class rascal may be attracted." So the next line says, "No," vidvāṁśāpi karṣati, "it is not the question of tenth-class rascal; even first-class learned, he may be attracted." Not to speak of tenth-class rascal, but first-class learned may be. Not may be. It is a... Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁśāpi karṣati: "The senses are so strong that it can mislead even the most learned scholar."
Sandy Nixon: How does one know a bona fide spiritual master, then, that can lead them?
Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized.
Bernard Manischewitz: If the soul goes out of the body...
Prabhupāda: There is no more change. It remains the same. Same status. Why? That means so long the soul is there, changes take place.
Bernard Manischewitz: I see. Thank you very much. I understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes, every intelligent man will understand this very simple thing, that so long as the body..., the soul is within the body, the body is changing. And as soon as this body... Just like you are old man, I am old man, the body is no more possible to be changed; somehow or other then I'll have to accept another body. That is called transmigration. The modern so-called scientists, philosophers, they do not understand this plain truth, and they are passing on as big scientists, big philosopher, misleading public.
Prof. Hopkins: A Kṛṣṇa bhakta than to be a Christian, say?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything genuine is easy. Anything hodgepodge, that is not good. We don't recommend hodgepodge.
Prof. Hopkins: So the advantage then, or the greater value is that it is focused and clear rather than a hodgepodge where the goal and the activities are not clear.
Prabhupāda: The hodgepodge has killed the whole world, that so many pseudo-religious systems. People are misled.
Prof. Hopkins: So the truth may be there somewhere...
Prabhupāda: Truth is everywhere.
are misled. So just recently you have presented. So in a sense it is not their fault because they have had not the chance to hear Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They have got many Bhagavad-gītā, but they were not able to understand. But now by your grace, maybe we'll see the reaction in a few years. Maybe all this will change.
Prabhupāda: Do they say like that or you are saying?
Citsukhānanda: Well, some people have said. Not widely yet. The work must go on. There's much to go. (break)
Dharmādhyakṣa: Bacteriology, study of germs. So Śrīla Prabhupāda, the reason one person gets a disease from a germ and another person doesn't get a disease, it is karma?
Prabhupāda: No, that is infection. If you are weak, you are infected. That is the science. One who is not weak, he does not become infected. Just like in your country there are so many liquor shop, but you are not interested. So it is like that.
Dharmādhyakṣa: But that is why they are engaged in science in order to master nature. They realize they are dependent.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. That is another foolish-ness, and we fools shall be misled by these rascals. All future. "Yes, in future we shall do this. In future we shall do that." Post-dated check. "I give you millions of dollars by check." It is six months after. "Yes, you take it." So who is the foolish man who will take, accept a post-dated check? A foolish man may be satisfied, "Now I have one million dollars." That is another thing.
Indian Man (2): I am reading books Prabhupāda. That books are your very, very good and most blessful to us. It is the biggest good will upon whole of universe at present, I think. By that knowledge, from dog to, I have become... I feel like I have something in my property of your books in my home. That's the only property I feel that I have, this one. I was misled, misguided in this country.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the beginning of Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: (SB 1.1.2) "All cheating type of instruction is kicked out from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Only substance." Vāstavam-vastu vedyam atra. One who is really anxious to know reality, for them, it is Bhāgavatam. And those who want to be misled, not for them. One who is sincere to get the light, for him Bhāgavata is the only remedy. (break) ...the question that "Why Bhāgavata is so important than other books?" The reply is there: mahā-muni kṛte kiṁ va paraiḥ. "What is the use of other books?" It is written by Mahā-muni Vyāsadeva, the Vedānta-ācārya.
Prabhupāda: Can you stay in everyone's heart? You are claiming God. This one instance. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛdeśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. He is aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ. He is within this universe, and He is within the atom. You are claiming to be Īśvara, God. Are you within the atom? Are you within everyone's heart? Then how do you claim that you are Īśvara? Practical. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ (BG 18.61). Īśvara, God, God is everyone's heart. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ (BG 15.15). (Bengali) ...on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā... (Bengali) And as soon as you manufacture something, then it is spoiled. (Bengali) That is going on. The so-called gurus, they get some mystic power, yoga-siddhi, and they show it and they mislead people that he is God. That is the difficulty. We never said... Where is that book? (Bengali) ...gurus. Again he has to go? (Bengali) So far as I am concerned, these things are not there.
Member: Constant thinking of Him, His lotus feet, it is the only way by which we can get the real benefit of getting this human life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And where is that education?
Member: That is real education.
Prabhupāda: That is... But where is that education? There is no such education all over the world.
Member: Only great gurus like you can enlighten the whole world. Only very rarely such people come only for the benefit of the people...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but those who are leaders, those who are leading the people, they are not interested. They are misleading.
Brahmānanda: Adolf Hitler adopted the idea of Aryan, but his criteria for Aryan was one who had blond hair and blue eyes.
Prabhupāda: That is bodily. (chuckles) That is another foolishness. Just like we have dress. So this dress of sannyāsī is not all. I must be real sannyāsī in knowledge, in education, in behavior, not that... Hitler studies by the dress. That is the foolishness. It is not by the dress, but by the quality. Dress is also required. As I am sannyāsī, I cannot dress otherwise. That is also essential. But if one judges, "Here is a sannyāsī," then he'll misled. That is being done. People are being exploited in the dress of a sannyāsī, although actually he is not sannyāsa. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. "A sannyāsī or a brāhmaṇa will be accepted by the outward feature." If somebody has got a thread only, two paisa worth, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. And when one takes a daṇḍa, he becomes a sannyāsī. This will be the identification in the Kali-yuga.
Vāsughoṣa: Especially Indian people, you know, they say, "Well, if I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, who will feed me?"
Prabhupāda: No, no, Indian, American, everyone. Why you are, American, you are so proud of your...?
Vāsughoṣa: No. (laughter) No, but because in India people know that they should surrender to Kṛṣṇa, no?
Prabhupāda: But you also know.
Vāsughoṣa: But the general mass, I mean, of Americans, they don't understand.
Prabhupāda: These are faulty, fault-finding. It is no good. Everyone. Kṛṣṇa did not say for Indian or American. For everyone. But at the present moment Indians are misled that they have been, I mean to say, induced to think that if they become like American or Western people they will be happy. That is misleading.
Prabhupāda: Actually the Supreme Lord is the source of everything. So if one is actually scientist, by his scientific explanation he will point out, "Here is the cause of all causes." By scientific knowledge he will point out that God is the origin of everything. Then his scientific study is perfect. But these rascals, they are doing the opposite, that "There is no need of God. Science is everything," although it is imperfect. That is their fault. Therefore they are rogues. They cannot prove; still, they will insist, "Yes, we shall do. We are trying," like that, and misleading people. General people, they are rascal and fools. If you mislead them, they will be misled. Śūdra, mūḍhas. They are to be educated. Instead of educating them, they are making them more and more fools and rascals. (break) There is utility, but they have no utility. There is some service; they carry some passengers. They are carried nowhere. Simply they mislead.
Cyavana: ...lization, they feel that they need science. They've become dependent upon science. They feel that without science they cannot live.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Cyavana: The scientists have made them dependent.
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. These rascals are fools. Therefore they have become dependent. Why science? What for? That is not... Science is required, vijñāna. That is nice. But they are not scientists.
Cyavana: We ask them if they need eternal life. They say "No, we don't need that. We need comforts."
Prabhupāda: They... We are eternal.
Cyavana: That "We need our daily bread," like that.
Prabhupāda: Where is comfort? You are going to die. Where is your comfort? You are going to be diseased. You are going to be old man like me. Every moment there is some trouble. So where is the comfort, rascal? That means misleading. There is no comfort; still, they are promising comfort. This is misleading. Where is comfort? Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is no comfort.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Where is comfort? If you have to die—"Oh, I am dying comfortably"—what is this nonsense? "I am dying comfortably."
Cyavana: Their propaganda leads people to think that they can enjoy... That it's possible here.
Prabhupāda: They're misleading. That is misleading. We have to check that. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness move..., that... They are not enjoying, and these rascals misleading them that they are enjoying. (break) Enjoyment is our aim also—but real enjoyment. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande. Satyānanda. Not this ānanda, temporary ānanda.
Prabhupāda: Bible may be wrong, but we are talking generally. So if you are scientist, you can say the right thing. But why should you deny God?
Brahmānanda: Well, if the book of God has made mistake, then we don't have any faith...
Prabhupāda: Book of God... Then throw it. Kick it out. But I say that you are scientist. How you can deny God? That is our propaganda. The so-called book of God, you throw away. But you are scientist. How can you deny the existence of God? Why you are misleading? Bible misleading, that's all right. Why you are misleading? That is our point.
Cyavana: For so many centuries they took the Bible to be the authority.
Prabhupāda: All right, throw it away. You are scientist.
Prabhupāda: So why do they not accept it?
Cyavana: Gradually they will. They are attracted. They will accept. (break) ...only here I have seen. All the islands on the Pacific and Indian Ocean are all potential. Philippines, very... The Philippine boys, I saw, very nice. They are not guided. Fiji also.
Prabhupāda: Fiji. Fiji also. Fiji, mostly Indian, but the original Fiji Fijians, they are also very nice.
Cyavana: What about Bali? There are also many...
Prabhupāda: Bali, there are practically Hindus. Yes. Everywhere. The soul is pure. They have been made impure by misleading.
Cyavana: All the outside influences are also here trying to make propaganda.
Prabhupāda: Just like here, this is māyā influence. These things should be stopped.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and educate your men on this island and be happy. There is good potency for this island.
Cyavana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Don't be misled by the misleaders.
Cyavana: There are many of them here also.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...here in the understanding and help your people. That is good service.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they found that certain species of life...
Prabhupāda: But he belongs to some species, English species, but he is gone. Does it mean the English species is gone? These rascals, they are big scientist and we have to accept them. (break) As a person, he is extinct. Does it mean that the English people are extinct?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? Why does he say "extinct"? These cheaters, they cheat themselves and bluff others and mislead the people. This is their position. We want at least that people may not be bluffed by these rascals and waste their time. That we want, that much. They may say that "You are not scientist." Yes, I am not scientist, but I can request you that don't be bluffed by this nonsense. That much I can say. I can prove that he is a nonsense. Why you are wasting time after them? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)...their folly, European men. Where the American men will go? (laughter) Just see. (break) ...from India they made Indian center, and they conquered both sides—Far East, Middle East, Africa—with Indian soldiers. They organized Indian soldiers and Sikhs and Gurkhas, and they employed them for extending their empire. British soldier does not mean... Maybe two, one or two British commanders, but real soldiers were Indians.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, actually Darwin said that there's a missing link.
Prabhupāda: You rascal, you say that. What is that missing link? Simply bluffing, and it is going on in the name of science. Just see the fun. Simply misleading, and people are so rascal, this civilized man, so-called, he is accepting as great theory.
Harikeśa: But who wants to make eggs?
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, it is an experiment. You say life comes from chemical. So by chemical combination make an egg and do it. Begin from this. Then we shall see others. This is very easy. If you have already analyzed the yellow portion of the egg, the white portion of the egg and that outer plastering can be done. Nowadays there is… What is called?
Harikeśa: Plastic.
Prabhupāda: Plastic. It can be done. Do it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Make a chicken.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Make a chicken or so many birds. If not chicken, make a sparrow. Do something. Do something. Why you should be misled by them, these rascals? Challenge him. Challenge them publicly that “These rascals are misleading. Don’t accept them. They’re simply misleading.”
Prabhupāda: "It is impossible. It will not be allowed, and they are trying for it. How this body can be maintained? 'Yes, we are trying. Now the disease has been reduced. Now they are living more days.' These are their foolish. They will never say, 'No, it is impossible.' Still, they will support their rascal endeavors." Modern advancement of science, what actually they have done? We are talking on that point. Simply misleading. The Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung one nice... (tape recorded section accidentally plays) "eating meat and drinking wine." (Prabhupāda and devotees laugh at interruption. Harikeśa apologizes) That... He says, jada vidy saba māyāra vaibhava. Jada vidyā means material education, the so-called material science.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He didn't even speak. He didn't speak for so many years.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This Meher Baba.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he was your guru? (laughs)
Harikeśa: He says, "Don't worry. Be happy, and just love me."
Prabhupāda: Just see. And he died of motor accident.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He died in motor accident?
Harikeśa: Yes. He was killed by a car.
Prabhupāda: "Don't worry, I am going to die by motor accident. Don't worry. Don't worry. I am going to die by motor accident." All these rasals, they have misled the whole world.
Harikeśa: But if the child would cause the mother so much anxiety...
Prabhupāda: Don't talk like foolish. Don't talk of that. It is waste of time. If it is the property of the mother, mother can kill at any time. Why at a certain point if the mother kills child she is hanged? If the mother has got the liberty to kill the child, she can kill at any time.
Harikeśa: Well, it's just a tumor. It's like a tumor.
Prabhupāda: Then why you say that it is mother's right to kill? And tumor, can you bring life in tumor? Kick simply on their face, on their nose. That is the only thing to treat with such... Murkhasya latausadhiḥ. Such fools in the society, they should be hanged. Misleading the whole population.
Dr. Patel: I think the greatest damage done to this civilization of Aryans of India was by MacCauley, who introduced the British system of education.
Prabhupāda: But why you accepted that? (laughter) Why you accepted? Then why don't you accept? You should have refused.
Dr. Patel: Well, we were not there to refuse. We came afterwards. Our forefathers gave us...
Prabhupāda: No, you can... Just like they are reforming. Their forefathers were drunkards, woman-hunters, (laughter) and they are reformed, the great-grandchildren. And we old men, we cannot do that.
Dr. Patel: I talk of MacCauley...
Prabhupāda: MacCauley may mislead you. Why you should believe?
Dr. Patel: He misled our forefathers.
Prabhupāda: No, why you should be misled?
Dr. Patel: Now we are going to lead them. Are you not leading them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your forefathers might have been misled, but why you will commit the same mistake again?
Dr. Patel: Now we have improved upon the mistake and we are leading them, and we will lead them.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. These boys, European, American boys, they were misled from the very beginning of their life, but how they are improving in spiritual consciousness? The thing is we are not prepared to take up our own culture.
Devotee (3): :Then how is it that some people do finally come to accept Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They come in the paramparā system, through guru. Tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore you have to go to guru to understand. You cannot understand personally. That is not possible. Therefore our system is to see through the guru and śāstra, not by these naked eyes. That is misleading.
Devotee (3): Then the key would be to recognize and appreciate the importance of the guru.
Prabhupāda: Parampara. Guru is also not authority by himself. He is authority by his guru, paramparā. If he is coming in the paramparā system, then he is guru. Otherwise he's not guru. Just like what we are doing? We are simply repeating the Kṛṣṇa's word. That's all. Therefore guru. And as soon as I make addition or alteration, I am goru
Harikeśa: Goru means?
Prabhupāda: Goru means cow, animal.
Prabhupāda: They have been taught like that.
Yaśomatīnandana: And they put out books on Mahābhārata or Rāmacandra, "Indian mythology."
Prabhupāda: But who cares for them?
Yaśomatīnandana: Ninety-nine per cent of the people are completely misled.
Prabhupāda: No, no, not ninety-nine per cent. Maybe nine percent. (break)
Yaśomatīnandana: They say that they would... These ṛṣis would kill one elephant or something like that, and they would live on him for whole year.
Prabhupāda: Where is that information? Where he got this information? You did not challenge?
Yaśomatīnandana: Well, I said that that muni must be just like the ṛṣis and munis you are talking about now.
Prabhupāda: We don't find any such thing. In this way they have ruined Indian culture by misquoting, by misleading.
Yaśomatīnandana: And he admitted that Vivekānanda smoked gañja and he was eating meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Find out this verse. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Mūḍha. Therefore they are all mūḍhas. So we are not going to be misled by the mūḍhas. That is not possible. We take the instruction of the topmost intelligent person, Kṛṣṇa. I think our Svarūpa Dāmodara has said that. Where is that book? He has given: "Kṛṣṇa, the topmost scientist." Yes. "Perceiving the supreme scientist, Śrī Kṛṣṇa." He has given this article.
Prabhupāda: ...mind, don't express. Don't disclose. And besides that, we should not think anyone as our enemy. They are misled. Let us do our own duty. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Who has broken this? (Break) ...disease. Just like a man is diseased, and a surgeon is operating. He's calling by ill names, "You rascal, you śālā, you barja(?), you are killing me." So that does not mean he'll stop his business. And when he's relieved: "Oh, you are my friend. You have done so good. You are not my śālā." Just see.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) So I do not know why our disciples are so anxious to take sannyāsa, at least those who are outside. Everyone comes: "Give me sannyāsa." What is the idea?
Jayapatākā: Freedom from authority.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh? Who cares him, for authority.
Jayapatākā: No, they, they don't want to take order as brahmacārī. If they're sannyāsī they think they can do as they feel.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They all want to become leaders.
Prabhupāda: So what kind of leader? If you cannot lead others, what kind of leader?
Jayapatākā: That's why a brahmacārī should...
Prabhupāda: If you mislead them, if you mislead them, then what is the use of taking leadership?
Reporter (2): It could be someone like, say, the Bala Yogeshwara, who also got some kind of following there.
Prabhupāda: That is.... That has spoiled our India's Vedic culture. Everyone has invented some ways, and they have misled the general people, people, followers. That is the misfortune of modern India. Yes. The standard instruction is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. They do not care to know it. They want to know about the greatness of Bala Yogi, Sai Baba, this bābā, that bābā. That is their misfortune. They give up the real instruction, Bhagavad-gītā, which is accepted by the great ācāryas—Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu—and all over the world, they are not interested to know Bhagavad-gītā; they are interested to know about Sai Baba. Just see misfortune.
Madhudviṣa: They say they may become pregnant and have children, but the men should take care of the children, equally.
Prabhupāda: Why? Why you should take? You are meant for taking... The child does not go to the father for being taken care. It goes to the mother. Even animals. There are so many chicken, hens, they go after the mother.
Hari-śauri: They get milk from the mother, not from the father.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How to stop it?
Lokanātha: How could father feed even the child?
Prabhupāda: Just see, in all there are so many husbandless girls, and the children have not gone with the husbands, to the man. They are after the mother. How you'll have equal rights? They cannot. At this your heart will cry, "Oh, I have left my children, I am unhappy." That is... Just like our Hari-śauri's grandmother's advice to his mother to kill him. He said. And she refused. This is natural inclination. How... Artificially they are thinking like that, violating nature's law. Therefore they must suffer. As soon as you break ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These rascals, on account of being misled by misconception of life, ahaṅkāra, false ahaṅkāra, kartāham, I can do everything. Any little pinch of nature's law, if you break, you'll suffer. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot escape. But still they're thinking, "We're independent." That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, by false prestige, by false identification.
Dr. Patel: But the real scientists are also God conscious.
Prabhupāda: That is all right. He is real scientist.
Dr. Patel: You have been unfortunately against them, but think of Albert Einstein. He was totally God conscious throughout his life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is all right, but mostly they say, "What is the use of God? Now science, everything science." They say like that.
Dr. Patel: You have been very harsh to the scientists.
Prabhupāda: They are misleading. These rascals are misleading. That is the way.
Dr. Patel: Then the kariṣye vacanam...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is bhakti. "Never mind, I do not agree with Kṛṣṇa, but I see that He wants it, I must do." This is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa should be given preference. That is bhakti, not my whimsical way. That is not bhakti. And because we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore Kṛṣṇa is giving direction.
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
Go to the person who has seen actually and take information. Simply by reading you will be misleaded. Even persons like Gandhi or Dr. Radhakrishna, Aurobindo, they were misled because they wanted to manufacture their own meaning. They did not like to act as Kṛṣṇa says.
Prabhupāda: Even Gandhi, he takes photograph with Bhagavad-gītā, but his fighting is for nationalism. The others are doing that. So what is the use of taking Bhagavad-gītā? The Pakistanis are also doing that. But you have taken Bhagavad-gītā, you are doing the same work. So what is your credit? This is going on. So nobody is learning Bhagavad-gītā. It is first time that we are teaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Otherwise, everyone is misled. The subject matter is that the soul is different from this body.
Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not say like that, that "You remain a rascal and go to preach." No. Janma sārthaka kari. "Your first business is that you make your life perfect. Then go to preach. Perfect means you learn how to obey My orders." That is perfection. Āmāra ājñāya. So if you are actually, perfectly carrying out the orders of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then you are preaching. Otherwise you will do wrongly, mislead. Don't do that. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If you remain blind, don't try to lead other blind men. That is misleading. First of all open your eyes. Everything is there. Nobody can do anything whimsically. If you do whimsically, concoctedly, that will be failure. It will not be effective.
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, nirvāṇa means that you give up all material desires. Not that "But he did not say anything more than that." Because it was meant for the fourth-class men, so he did not say. He simply asked that you finish this material desire.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that not misleading?
Prabhupāda: It is not misleading. It is truth, but the truth as much as you can understand. It is not misleading because Lord Buddha knew that "This rascal will not understand more than this." So he did not say further knowledge.
Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so some of our men, when we sell our books, sometimes we have to say things in order to get them to take the book. So that's actually not misleading.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is not misleading. Let him take, some way or other. (break) Why do you think was done by Lord Buddha? Because the atheist class, they did not believe in God: "There is no God." So Buddha said, "Yes, there is no God. You are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir." But he's God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We know that Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa. But he says, "No, no, there is.... No, there is no God. Yes, you are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir, we shall do that."
Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda.
Hari-śauri: If they're mentally satisfied, they think that's the ultimate.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...there's no such thing. "I believe." Immediately.... What Kṛṣṇa says, that's true. That is our movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What I believe? I'm a nonsense. I am.... I have got four defects in my life: illusion, mistake, cheating, insufficiency. What is the meaning of my belief? A cheater saying, "I believe," I have to accept if I know that he's a cheat? (break) ...the public, by misleading them they have gone to moon.
Devotee (2): They will think that "Because I'm not very advanced I cannot understand their philosophy."
Prabhupāda: They may think it, but my point is don't be misled by these rascals. (indistinct) Fix up your direction. Don't be misled by these rascals. (indistinct) What you have brought? (break) God is not dead. (indistinct) God is coming to kick you out and kill you. God is not dead. He'll come in due course of time and kill you. God is not dead; he'll be dead. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). He's thinking God is dead... "Yes, yes, I'm coming. Whatever asset you've got, I'll take everything and make it killed. Then you'll understand what is God." These rascals say like that. Kṛṣṇa says, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham, "I'll take everything. Just wait a few years more. When you'll not be able to say God is dead, you are dead." Rascals.
Hari-śauri: Like Volte. He was eating his own stool and urine before he died, and he was still insisting there is no God.
Prabhupāda: So these rascals, they'll be taught a lesson at the time of death. God is not dead; you are dead. You simply wait to see how you are dead. We don't want to discuss all this nonsense philosophy, just to warn them that "You don't be misled by this rascalism." That is my point. Then who kills you? Who has killed your father? Just see. Who has killed your father and who will kill you? Just wait a few years more.
Devotee (3): :Karandhara and I were at a scientists' meeting, and he used that argument with the scientists. He said "The universe always has been." So Karandhara used your argument that "Yes, the sun has been there, and the sun rays are there along with it. Still, the sun is the source of the sun rays." The scientists could not answer. And everybody in the crowd...
Prabhupāda: What they will answer? Simply speculator, misleading (unclear).
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just see the jugglery of words. Now why you forgot yourself? You are sarva-gataḥ; now why you are conditioned? Why?
Duryodhana-guru: Well, couldn't answer, I guess.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. (devotees laugh)
Rādhāvallabha: Sarva-gataḥ tomorrow.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: When I'm liberated, I'll be able to answer you.
Prabhupāda: If you are not liberated, why you are talking nonsense? Then you are a nonsense. You are not liberated, you cannot talk correct things. Don't talk. If you are not liberated, whatever you are talking, you are nonsense. So why you are misleading people? First of all, be liberated, then talk.
Prabhupāda: Meditation is good if you think of your father. If you meditate on something nonsense, what is the use? This is going on. "Real father don't recognize; we are meditating." Misleading. Real meditation is to think of God. But if you do not know God, what is God, and when we present "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa," you don't accept, then what can be done? Everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, God. But if somebody says, "No, I do not accept," that is his business. If he wants to be misled, let him do. What can we do? But here is God. Thing is very simple. There is no difficulty. But we are so obstinate, lowest of the mankind, we would not accept simple things. We will make it complicated and be frustrated. That is our disease. Unnecessarily we make things complicated. Otherwise, father is there, father's instruction is there, father's favor is there, everything is there.
Prabhupāda: How many scientists?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are also fallible, they can also make mistakes. "Experts Misled: For instance, investigators in universities in the West were known to be misled by tricksters who claimed para-psychological powers." Like ESP.
Prabhupāda: They invent some big, big words (laughter). Aparkalasvena-vargolas-double-wakundali-gondolais (gibberish). (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is your problem. You are repeatedly taking birth and dying, and so long you are living there are so many troubles. Jarā-vyādhi. Especially old age and disease. So this is the problem. What mysticism will help you? Will the mysticism stop your birth, death, old age and disease? Then that is mysticism. Otherwise, what is the use of such nonsense things. (break) ...misleading from the real path. They do not know what is the aim of life, what is the problem of life. They create some mysticism, and some rascal people are after them. That's all. "Here is mystic."
Prabhupāda: Sañjaya is asking, Dhṛtarāṣṭra is asking Sañjaya, that "My sons and my brother's sons, both of them assembled together for fighting, then what did they do?" And they assembled in the dharma-kṣetre, Kurukṣetra. That place is still there, Kurukṣetra. You have been in India. And the Kurukṣetra station is there, and people are still going by thousands to Kurukṣetra as a dharma-kṣetra. So where is the difficulty to understand the meaning of these two words, dharma-kṣetre, kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1)? Why you should interpret "Kuru-kṣetre means this, dharma-kṣetre means this"? Why? Mislead others and mislead himself.
Hari-śauri: Everything is there, but actually they don't see.
Prabhupāda: Because they are not devotee. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Mām ebhyaḥ param, mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ parama-avyayam. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They have no knowledge.
Satsvarūpa: They think that if they follow, they'll still be misled. "Why should I believe? It may not be true."
Prabhupāda: But you are already misled. Why not be second time misled? You are already misled, thousand times. Why not try once more. You are making so much arrangement to live comfortably, but you are kicked out. Are you not misled? Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. You are thinking that by adjustment of this external energy, you will be able to live very happily. Is it possible? You are trying, problem after problem, problem after problem. So you are already misled.
Satsvarūpa: You've said, "Just give this one life to Kṛṣṇa. You've misgambled so many lives. Why not give one to Kṛṣṇa?"
Prabhupāda: You are misled already so many lives. All right, be misled another life. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Reporter: "What is the actual duty of the government?"
Prabhupāda: "To understand what God wants and to see that society works towards that aim"—that's the caption they put up here also, "The actual duty of government is to understand what God wants and to see that society works towards that aim"—"then people will be happy. But if the people work in the wrong direction, how can they be happy? The government's duty is to see that they are working in the right direction. The right direction is to know God, to act according to His instruction. But if the leaders themselves do not believe in the supremacy of God, and if they do not know what God wants to do or what He wants us to do, then how can there be good government? The leaders are misled, and they are misleading others. That is the chaotic condition in the world today."
Prabhupāda: These things are meant for ajitendriyānām, who could not control the senses, ajitendriyānām. And who has engaged his senses in the service of the Lord, they are not ajitendriya. If you have engaged your mind in Kṛṣṇa, the mind is the king of senses; then your senses cannot be misled. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). Then if your mind is always in Kṛṣṇa, man-mana bhava mad bhakto, then what you'll speak except Kṛṣṇa? If you speak nonsense, that means your mind is not engaged in Kṛṣṇa. The mind is the center of all sensual activities. So if your mind is always in Kṛṣṇa, how we can talk nonsense? Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. He'll be always engaged in talking about Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. So if we keep our mind always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is no question of mauna, because we'll have to talk about Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I remain mauna? If we talk about Kṛṣṇa, or what Kṛṣṇa has said, then I am benefited, and the audience, he is also benefited. Take Bhagavad-gītā and talk.
Prabhupāda: Just like we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is different from Hare Kṛṣṇa, then how we are satisfied chanting whole day and night? This is the proof. The ordinary thing, if you chant, "Mr. John, Mr. John," after chanting three times you'll cease. But this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, if you go on chanting 24 hours, you'll never be tired. this is the spiritual Absolute Truth. That is practical. Anyone can perceive. So Kṛṣṇa's present by His words, by His representative. Why don't you take? You have to take guru. Why do you go to the pseudo guru who will mislead you? Why don't you take to the real guru? That is your mistake. Therefore you are now disappointed. Now you are in doubt whether guru is needed. Yes, guru is needed, but you go to the real guru. That is instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Janāhlāda: One of the ways they tell whether there are advanced forms of life is if they can see vegetation growing on different planets in waves like the seasons, and if they can't see that in an orderly pattern, then they conclude that there is no life, no advanced life.
Prabhupāda: Why there is no vegetation? They say there is vegetation.
Rādhāvallabha: They say, lichens. Lichens are...
Prabhupāda: That means not yet certain.
Rādhāvallabha: No, they admit they're not certain.
Prabhupāda: This is all... They're misleading.
Ṛṣi Kumāra: Prabhupāda, is it all right if I remain a sannyāsī?
Prabhupāda: Stay for some time. You'll get sannyāsa. Stay for some time.
Ṛṣi Kumāra: I don't want to get married. It's just being kicked by māyā. I can see that.
Prabhupāda: At least you have got already experience. (laughs) Don't be misled. Stay for sometimes. Will be give you sannyāsa.
Rūpānuga: Everyone has accepted the wrong authority. Everyone has accepted the wrong authority.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he's misled by sense gratification, so even he approaches a guru, if the guru cannot satisfy his senses, he doesn't like. Because he's under the subjugation of senses, he expects that guru also will satisfy his senses, then he is guru. If guru says something against his sense gratification, "Ah, he is not guru." (laughs) Guru also must be a person who can satisfy your senses. This is his sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: They are such rascals. They have no common sense that this is also one of the planets, it is filled up with life and everything, and why the other planets should be vacant? If there is rock and sand, then why not other things? Here is also rock and sand and other things. But these rascals, they think there is simply rock and sand, nothing else. And they are misleading. What is the reason? This planet is filled up with life, and other planets vacant. All right, vacant. Go and colonize there. They say it is not possible. Then why do you go there? This is going on.
Hari-śauri: No, they say the earth is spinning on its own axis, so all parts of the earth at one time or another receive sunlight.
Prabhupāda: The moon does not do that?
Hari-śauri: The moon does not revolve on its own axis.
Prabhupāda: Another foolishness.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just to fit their speculation.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Simply speculation and misleading people.
Hari-śauri: There's no basis for it, there's no truth to it at all. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: And you people believed that? I'm surprised. (laughter) You are also fools and rascals.
Dr. Sukla: (indistinct) ...he was asked who is such a master. He pointed out could not answer who can be such a master. He posed himself as a spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: So here is an opportunity to preach real India's traditional culture. So those who are Indians present here, they should cooperate. They should not mislead further.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is dharmasya glānir. That those who are not bhaktas, speculators, they are talking of God. This is dharmasya glānir. How they can talk of God? They cannot talk. Even they are talking, that is misleading, because nobody can talk of God unless you are devotee of God. You see? Bhakto 'si. Fourth Chapter. The subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā is to be understood by a bhakta, not by a speculator.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So my feeling is that in about fifty years something is going to be settled.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) It's already settled. They should accept the (indistinct). It's already settled.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially about this origin of life business.
Prabhupāda: That is also settled. Everything is settled. But these rascals must admit. That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's settled in the sense that even the scientist will come around that, "Oh, yes, what we taught was wrong."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want. They have become unnecessary authorities and misleading people. That we want to expose.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in a sense it is good that they do research.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We are giving them knowledge.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: If they are after knowledge, they should accept.
Prabhupāda: If devotees take up the whole world for management, then everyone will be happy. It is no doubt it. Kṛṣṇa wants that. He wanted the Pāṇḍavas should be in charge of the government. Therefore He took part in the fighting. "Yes, you should be the... All the Kauravas should be killed, and Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira installed." That is the dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). He wants everything goes very smoothly and people become God conscious. So their life be successful. That is Kṛṣṇa's plan. That, "These rascal misleading and therefore... the (indistinct) the human life has been spoiled." Therefore I was talking about the "What is the meaning of the independence, (indistinct)?" ? The life is spoiled. And they will spoil their life and become next life a dog, and this big, big building, with stair, that's all. What the big buildings will do benefit to these people who is going to be a dog next life? Taking as a theory, that those who have constructed this big, big building and next life they're going to be a dog.
Yadubara: They want to become God.
Prabhupāda: God becoming is far away. First of all, make some living entity. But even if you do it, then what is your credit? Why you want to take so much great credit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's called false prestige.
Prabhupāda: Just see, how nonsense they are, misleading people, making them atheist, Godless. Great dangerous, the so-called scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that mentality has to be changed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if even two, three, points we can prove that they're all rascals, then they will change. Simply cheating people and take high salary. This is common sense.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why we want to bring up this point that "Scientists, we are not claiming that you are all nonsense, but you are all good men, but you should know your limits."
Prabhupāda: You should not be so proud falsely. That is our point. And mislead others that there is no God. Because you are accepted as authority, scientist, if you say that there is no God, they will accept it. Then our back to Godhead movement is stopped. Then we must stop your also nonsense. It is a fight. Because you say there is no God, and we say you are all nonsense. We must say it. You are challenging, we must challenge. But you accept God, then we have nothing... I think Sir Isaac Newton said like that: "The vast knowledge, we have simply gathered a few grains of sand on the beach of knowledge," something like that. That is good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, humble.
Prabhupāda: That is good. But how you can say there is no God, everything is science? And misleading people. That must be stopped. You take credit as much as you have done. That we are ready to give you. Because you have created one airplane, 747, therefore you can do everything, if you give... Like that, that is misleading. That we cannot...
Prabhupāda: The thing is that these persons, they are holding the... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). A blind man, he has no eyes, and still, he's leader of other blind men. Is it possible? A blind man, he is blind man, he has no knowledge, and still, he's leading other blind men. This is a very dangerous position. He has no actual knowledge, simply speculating, putting theories and formulas, and they are leaders of the society.
Rūpānuga: We have to stop this.
Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise people are misled. It is not the duty of education to mislead people. Real knowledge should be given. To become a great misleader and take some title, that is not good.
Prabhupāda: Killing of animals before the advent of Lord Buddha was the most prominent feature of the society. They claimed that these were Vedic sacrifices. When the Vedas were not accepted through the authoritative disciplic succession, the casual readers of the Vedas are misled by the flowery language of that system of knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā a comment has been made on such foolish scholars. The foolish scholars of Vedic literature who do not care to receive the transcendental message through the transcendental realized sources of disciplic succession are sure to be bewildered. To them, the ritualistic ceremonies are considered to be all in all.
Prabhupāda: All the swamis and yogis who came here, they do not belong to this paramparā system, so therefore they are not bona fide guru. They are presenting themselves as guru, but they are not guru. Therefore people are misled. People are misled, and this is the first time that we presented India's traditional philosophy and life as it is understood by the paramparā system. Therefore it is being so well received. Vivekananda came here, as you said, 1893, before my birth. I was born in 1896. But they have worked for, say, eighty-five years. What they have done? But I have worked here for seven or eight years. And it is now worldwide movement. Why? Because we presented the things as they are. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Therefore it is effective. So if the things are presented as they are, the customers will automatically come.
Prabhupāda: ...difference between a śūdra and brāhmaṇa. A śūdra can be misled at any moment. That is stated in... Strī śūdra. Woman and śūdra on the same class. You can mislead them by high talkings: "Oh, I am coming from Indian prince." They come here, marry some European, and go to India and then engage him (her) for collecting water in bucket. One Muhammadan crewman, a vagabond, he bluffed one girl that "I am coming from Muhammadan prince family." Then she married, and she went to Allahabad, and she was given borakhā and she was living in a hut, and then she was bringing water from the street. She wrote a letter to the Viceroy that "This is my position." Then police came and rescued her and sent her. (break)
Mike Robinson: As far as the Christian faith is concerned, doesn't it base it...
Prabhupāda: Why are you bringing Christian?
Mike Robinson: Well, I thought you quoted Christianity. But as far as the Christian faith is concerned, don't they quote their scriptures?
Prabhupāda: Then it is misleading. As soon as you say that "We Christians, we believe," then it is misbelief. It is not scientific.
Mike Robinson: Well how does it become scientific?
Prabhupāda: Scientific because the animal eats, you eat. The animal sleeps, you sleep. The animals have sex, you have sex. The animal defends, you also defend. Then where is the difference between you and the animal? Why do you say there is no soul?
Prabhupāda: What do they say?
Bhagavān: They are impressed with how much we have done.
Prabhupāda: They will be more and more impressed. What is this city life? In Paris, simply to fulfill the necessities of life, a professional prostitute, so many. And people from all over the world, they come here for indulge in prostitute. From our childhood we know. What a civilization they have made. Spoiling the life. Then, after finish this life, you just become a cat, a dog, or a tree and stand up. And all other planets are vacant. Simply this planet is filled up, overpopulation. Kill them. Why not send there? So vacant land. (laughter) "That we cannot do." Then what is your scientific research? "Yes, we are trying. Wait millions of years." (laughter) These bluffing rascals. Don't be misled. Live peacefully here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān: They are spending so much money for entertainment in material life, but no one is becoming enlivened. But this kind of discussion is so fresh. For a show they pay five dollars, to go to one movie for one hour, two hours.
Prabhupāda: That is another artificial agitation of the mind. It has, there is no practical benefit. Just see how many varieties of flowers, colorful. Can they make such colorful? "Yes, we're trying to overcome nature. Wait millions of years." And what about not? "Now you sleep." (laughter) These rascals are misleading other rascals. And they are, "Oh, a scientist!" Very misleading civilization. We shall appreciate in every flower the craftsmanship of Kṛṣṇa, how He has done nicely. Unnecessarily puffed up by so-called advancement of knowledge, misleading themselves and misleading others. Who is that old man comes? Some old man?
Bhagavān: He's a life member from Belgium.
Prabhupāda: Oh. He has come from Belgium? In the last German war, the first attempt of attack was on Belgium. And within few hours, Belgium finished, conquered.
Ali: Shouldn't there be a balance between physical existence and spiritual existence? Like between body and spirit?
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, you must have spiritual understanding, then spiritual study. If you have no spiritual understanding, then why spiritual study? All these scientists, they are trying to understand the spirit soul by material, on material platform. Therefore they are being misled. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, to distinguish between matter and spirit it is negatively described: nainaṁ chindanti śāstrāṇi. Find out. The spirit soul is there which cannot be cut into pieces by any instrument.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a supreme controller. That you have to admit. You are not independent. Why they foolishly think independent? What is the reason they're foolishly thinking independent? What is their independence? Nobody is independent. So why they are foolishly thinking independent? You first challenge them. They are not independent. Are you independent? So why they foolishly declare independent?
Jñānagamya: They are ignorant.
Prabhupāda: So what is the position then? They are in ignorance, and they are leading the society as scientist, philosopher, politician. That is misleading. They cannot go even freely in the so-called moon planet excursion or Mars. Still, they are declaring independence. What is their independence?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Rascal.
Mrs. Sahani: You first have to surrender to God.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No difficulty. If you chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? That is mana-manā. Apply your mind to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? The difficulty is that we'll not do it. That is our determination. We shall do everything, but not this. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. Everyone will teach about Bhagavad-gītā, so many things they will speak, but nobody speaks that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Rather, they will say Kṛṣṇa is fictitious, there was no Kṛṣṇa, there was no... They mislead, that's all. And he becomes a big scholar. The more he deviates you, misguides you, he become a big scholar. This is going on. Is it not? There are so many scholars, politicians, philosophers, they are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. Nobody is talking that Kṛṣṇa, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Am I right or wrong?
Prabhupāda: You go to a person who has seen the truth and you understand. Because they are not understanding Kṛṣṇa directly or through the agent, they are misled, they are misinterpreting. That is their folly. They'll not understand Kṛṣṇa directly, neither they'll understand through Kṛṣṇa's agent. Therefore they are misguided.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you have got your father's money, you do not know. One friend is trying to hide that money, another friend is trying to give you that money. So who is better friend?
Nandarāṇī: The one who is giving or trying to give.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, a human being has got the right to understand God. So one party is denying, the another party is trying to give you. So who is better friend?
Nandarāṇī: The one who is giving you the knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are the best friend of the whole world because we are trying to give him the rightful position. Others are misleading. They are enemies, they are not friend. In the name of friends, they are enemies.
Shahrezad: So why we are so involved in the material world that most of the human being don't have...
Prabhupāda: They are being misled by misleaders, that is the difficulty.
Shahrezad: Yes, but why, God, why they don't see, we don't see?
Prabhupāda: They see they are suffering, but they have no eyes to see. They are being slapped both ways and kicked with shoes, but they have no eyes to see. Going on. So much trouble, so many problems, that you cannot drive even on the street. We wanted to see some house; because the street is so congested, we had to wait three days. And still I am thinking that I am making progress. This is rascal.
Mr. Sahani: But being inquisitive, again, and accepting it...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Inquisitive means one who does not accept that "Here is a person giving me gold. He's very good man, he'll not cheat me." Then you accept. But if you have no such faith, then you check it. But real gold, either you take in blind faith or by checking, the result is the same. Now it is up to you. If you believe Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead as He says... He is the Supreme Person. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). That's a fact. But if you don't believe it, then check and consider of our statement, and then accept. Two ways are there. Why people are misled? They do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are taking Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. So why they should take Bhagavad-gītā in their own way? That is not good. If you want to speak something better than Bhagavad-gītā, you speak separately. Why you misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: That is the best way, follow the mahājana. Unfortunately, the mahājanas, without following mahājana, everyone is becoming mahājana in his own way. And that is being supported, that you manufacture your own way of spiritual progress, that is all right. That is dangerous. That is dangerous. And that is going on now. You can manufacture in your own way. And there are thousands who are coming, manufacturing their own way and spoiling the whole thing. That is the... Otherwise there is no difficulty, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. We are therefore requesting people that don't be misled. Here is the greatest mahājana, Kṛṣṇa Himself. You follow His instruction. It is very easy, there is no complication.
Prabhupāda: Our culture has been spoiled by interpreting wrongly Kṛṣṇa's words. Bhārata-bhūmi, puṇya-bhūmi... still, thousands and millions are there. If there is Kumbhamelā, millions of men are coming. Whenever we hold some Kṛṣṇa consciousness meeting, daily, twenty thousand, fifteen thousand, thirty thousand men come. The spirit is there. Unfortunately, that is being artificially depressed. But it cannot be done. The puṇya-bhūmi, bhārata-bhūmi, it will go on. But the unfortunate thing is that the clear thing is there and that is being misinterpreted and people are misled. That is the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me."
- ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
- mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
- iti matvā bhajante māṁ
- budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
- (BG 10.8)
- bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
- jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
- (BG 7.19)
These things are there. Iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā. Then explain. Vimṛśya, this word is there. Vimṛśyaitad yathecchasi tathā kuru. Find out this verse, iti. These are strong words. Because we are misled by foolish leaders, we are confused. Otherwise everything's clear.
Interviewer (4): You mean to say that this should become part, an integral part of the educational system?
Prabhupāda: That is the most important part. If you do not know what you are, then you are talking like a nonsense. If you have lost your identity, then what is your education?
Interviewer (4): No, but we should realize the politicians...
Prabhupāda: It is not a question of politician or economics. It is general education, that you must know your identity, what you are. Then knowledge...
Interviewer (4): I am living under the system, and that system is...
Prabhupāda: But if the system is wrong, then you are living wrongly. You are misled.
Interviewer (4): That is something inborn, isn't it? That scientists...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your inquisiti... You have got born inquisitiveness, jijñāsu, that is especially manifested in human form of life. So for jijñāsu it is recommended, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). You have to go to the proper person. So that we are not doing. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). These are the Vedic injunctions. Jijñāsu is our natural instinct, but we go to who has no knowledge. That is the difficulty. We are misled. But the knowledge is there already, the Vedic knowledge is there. There are so many Vedas, Upaniṣads, Vedānta-sūtra, and Bhagavad-gītā, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, Purāṇas, but there is no systematic study of this literature. We are neglecting.
Prabhupāda: A man may have very good brain power, organization, but if he has no money-useless. So four things required: land, labor, capital, organization. That minister in Raṅganātha (?), he is inclined to spend huge income of Tirupati, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But he is bound up by other colleagues. They are applying the money. So he's willing to call all the ministers if I can convince them. I shall try it. Just... In the Bhagavad-gītā, that is, yajñārthe karma. Everyone is karmī. So the karmīs, the village cultivators or big men industrialists, they are going to Tirupati. Whatever then can spare, they are offering. That is yajñārthe. If this money is taken and again if it is brought into karmī, then it is misleading. Karmīs are giving them. Just like people are giving us money. They are karmīs. But because they are giving us and we are engaging the money in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so the money is fully utilized. But if this money again taken and again to the karmīs....
Jayapatākā: Without any spiritual work.
Prabhupāda: Then it is a farce. His purpose is served, but one who is misleading the..., he becomes criminal.
Jayapatākā: The man who gives, his purpose is served.
Prabhupāda: His purpose is served.
Prabhupāda: We do not like to criticize. Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, Kanayalal Munshi, he did not believe there is life after death or he did not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, fact. This is the founder. So what is their knowledge? And Vivekananda made Nārāyaṇa daridra. So this is their manufacturing ideas. They have no sound knowledge, vacant. They are misled themselves, and they will mislead others. This is going on. But if you say that, "You are the only man?" I can say, "Yes, I am the only man" at the present moment. You believe or not believe. And why? Because I am following Kṛṣṇa's instructions. That's all. I do not touch anything. That is our process.
Commissioner: Who questions the Gītā and the Upaniṣads?
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Very difficult. You see. Big, big scholars, big, big politicians, they are supposed to be preaching Bhagavad-gītā. They take their photograph in front of Bhagavad-gītā, but without Kṛṣṇa. They'll never talk of Kṛṣṇa any time. Banish Kṛṣṇa. Even Gandhi has said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." Perhaps you have read in his Gītā-Press edition.(?) Kṛṣṇa is speaking... Radhakrishnan said when Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, he says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad bhaktaḥ, and he says it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person. Just see how misleading it is. And if a person like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi, misleads, then who will hear me? What I am? There is one big person in Bombay, he said that he has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for Gītā-pracāra. But when I proposed Gītā-pracāra means Kṛṣṇa pracāra, so he said, "No, I want Gītā without Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: In Bombay I have got a very big friend, you know him. I do not wish to disclose his name. He has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for preaching Gītā. But he wants Gītā without Kṛṣṇa. Rāma without Sītā. Rāvaṇa's policy. Take away Sītā. Rāma will remain alone. So take away Gītā and cut Kṛṣṇa. But I cannot make any compromise I shall... My life is ended, now eighty-one. I do not... But so long I shall live I shall make no compromise, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Dṛḍha-vrata. And that is a fact. Why shall I mislead people? They are searching after God, what is God. Here is God. Why don't you take it. See His activities. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ. Tally with the formula of God, you see Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So whatever teeny effort I have got, I shall try to establish temples of Kṛṣṇa all over the world with my teeny income. I have got book sales. Kṛṣṇa has given me very good chance. It is beyond any dream. We are selling books sixty thousand dollars daily.
Pradyumna: "So you can claim as a spark of God, as every living entity can claim but you cannot claim as the..."
Prabhupāda: The Supreme Person with full power. That is misleading. You can show a little magic, as other magicians also can show.
Prabhupāda: He took advice, the Nawab was so serious about Him. A Mohammedan may do something. So he said, "It is not good to stay here. You should go away." They decided that we shall go now with Him but in the meantime let Him go. Because there were parts of India, Mohammedan influence, especially Bengal was Mohammedan kingdom. So this was warning. Then he told the Nawab that, "He is a beggar. Why do you think of him as serious man? He is beggar. Some people follow him, not many." So he said. "Don't try to mislead me. I know. He's not beggar, He's God. Otherwise how so many people are following Him?" The Nawab he said that.
Jagadīśa: We have one question about one of the boys. His name is (name withheld), and he's a... He's more or less a bad boy. He's had a bad background. His mother's a devotee and she's a nice devotee, but he's very... He terrorizes the other boys.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Jagadīśa: He misleads them. He lies.
Prabhupāda: How old he is?
Jagadīśa: He's thirteen.
Prabhupāda: So he cannot be... He must go back. We cannot spoil other children.
Rūpa-vilāsa: They are being spoiled by him.
Jagadīśa: I was thinking, to make an example of him, either we should beat him or send him back.
Prabhupāda: Best thing will be send him back. He's incorrigible.
Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life."
Prabhupāda: One Indian gentleman, he was eating the intestine of the hog. So it was horrible for me, but he was eating very nice. So in this way the world is going on. "One man's food is another man's poison." So similarly, we are creating our next birth according to our desire. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). According to the infection of the different modes of material nature, we are creating good or bad body next life. The laws of nature is unknown to the foolish society. They are thinking, "This life is everything. Misled, they do not know the aim of life. That is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind leader is leading other blind men. This is going on. And when we present the real solution, they say it is brainwash.
Prabhupāda: You want to see magic; you don't want to see God. God is personally speaking, accepted God, not that by magical... And who can show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. Can this rascal do that? Who can be greater magician than Kṛṣṇa? So we shall go to the greatest magician. Why shall I go to a tiny magician? That is our misfortune. If you want to see magic, see the magic, what Kṛṣṇa has done. This is our misfortune, that we go to a wrong person and misled. If you want magician, see Kṛṣṇa, how great magician He is. He married sixteen thousand wives. Is there any instance in the history of the world that one has sixteen thousand wives and maintaining each of them? And he expanded himself in sixteen thousand husbands. Not that one wife is waiting: "When sixteen thousand, after sixteen thousand nights, He would come here?" No. He is present everywhere. That is magic.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is sinful, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We test him. We test like this, that Kṛṣṇa says this, that anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, he is under the four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's it. We are fools and rascals, we have no such education. But we take Kṛṣṇa's word that "Here is a fool, here is a sinful man, here is a narādhamāḥ, here is māyayāpahṛta." So unless you stick to this point, that we shall preach Bhagavad-gītā (indistinct) then there is no meaning of it. You are misled, you will mislead others. But if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as Kṛṣṇa said, then... If you are not prepared to do that, then however (indistinct) interpretation, thousands of literatures, the result is (indistinct). This is practical.
Prabhupāda: So karmī, jñānī, yogi, and bhakta. So out of these four classes of men, the three classes means karmī, jñānī and yogi, they are restless. Because they actually did not find out what is the solution. One after another, there are different classes, there are classification. One is better than the other. That is another thing. But none of them... They are still misled. A karmī, he is thinking that "I am poor man. If I become rich man, I will be happy." He is thinking in that way. Jñānī is thinking that "Poor and rich doesn't matter. I am Brahman. I am spirit soul. If I merge into the Supreme Brahman I will be happy." Yogi is thinking that "The Absolute is present everywhere in His personal feature. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So if I become one with Him, I will be happy." But still there is a demand, "If I become like this." So so long he is not self-realized, he will try to become something and so long he'll try to become something, then there will be restlessness. There cannot be happiness.
Prabhupāda: If I want to come to point of misfortune, that is my disease. Otherwise, we can understand little, Kṛṣṇa is explaining. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,
- janma karma ca me divyaṁ
- evaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti...
- (BG 4.9)
Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa is liberation. And that is also explained. What is that tattva? How one can understand tattvataḥ, that is explained by Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). That tattva is bhakti, not karma, jñāna, yoga. Everything is there. And still if we want to be misled that is our misfortune.
Guest (2): What are the aims of the Indian society. Although it's given birth to so much, it still doesn't take it as success. What is the weakness in the Indian society that they don't...
Prabhupāda: Because they have got bad leaders, the rascal leaders. Just like see. Mahatma Gandhi, he misled. But he did not know how to lead. And what to speak of others. They do not know. I saw this Vinoba Bhave, he does not know anything. He has become leader. I saw in his āśrama about one dozen women, they are reciting Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And for the last forty years he's working on Bhagavad-gītā, and the result is some forty women is reciting Bhagavad-gītā. So this is the result. So what they will do? They do not know how to lead. And he has written one book on Bhagavad-gītā, but he has become a great leader. And that is also not according to Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: Nothing to do... It is spoiled. If you manufacture idea, because you are imperfect... How you can manufacture ideas? Four deficiencies are there, so if you manufacture with deficiency of your own person, then what will be the knowledge?
Guest (1): The result will also be deficiency.
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Our knowledge... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. So who can be more śreṣṭha than Kṛṣṇa? Than Vyāsadeva, Nārada, the ācāryas? But they will not follow. They will manufacture some idea. That is the difficulty in India at the present moment. Some upstart leaders, they have misled them. That is the difficulty. And we are poor fellows. If we say the right thing, they'll not take it.
Guest (1): He's supposed to be one of the biggest propagator of Gītā. He had Gītāra jñāna yajña in Bombay. There were thousands of people there.
Prabhupāda: False, everything false. Misled. He does not recognize Kṛṣṇa, he does not recognize religion, and he is religious.
Guest (1): One of the best religious leaders. That's what people think.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that may be, falsely representation, but where he is recommending that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and worship Him"? Has he done that? That means misleading. He can become a very good orator, and he can get claps, but what is the benefit? He's a good orator, there is no doubt about it. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that "You become a orator and cheat others." He does not say. He says, "Surrender unto Me." So if actually one is preaching, he should teach the audience that "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." And that is reading of Bhagavad-gītā. If I take Bhagavad-gītā and speak something of my opinion, that means I am cheating. I am taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā, and I am impressing people with my nonsense ideas.
Prabhupāda: Tapasya means to rescue the soul from this material condition, yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet, to purify your existence. What is the impurification? Impurification is that the soul is subjected to repetition of birth and... That is impurification. That he does not know. So he is missing the goal of life, and he's thinking this temporary so-called happiness for twenty years, forty years, fifty years, or, utmost, hundred years, that is his ultimate. That is a misleading. He does not know the aim of life. He thinks this material enjoyment to make this body stout and strong and enjoy senses like the hogs. Therefore it has been (called) na arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. The sewer hog, he is thinking, "I am eating stool. I am getting fatty. That is my life. And I am enjoying sex without any discrimination." No discrimination of sex, either mother or sister and daughter—it doesn't matter. This is hog's life. He does not know. As soon as he becomes fatty he'll be captured, and the bhangis will, what is called? Toast, make him a toast. In our country they do. In outside of the village they hang the pig and with fire, roast it. And he, it cries, "Kyaa, kyaa, kyaa." And it is roasted, and they enjoy. But that he does not know. He is getting very strong but he does not know that he's going to be roasted. Therefore he is misguided. He does not know nature's law.
Hari-śauri: When we go out and preach and we just repeat or try to repeat whatever we've heard from the spiritual master, but we may not have fully realized what we're speaking about, does that somehow or another reduce the potency of the Gītā or the Bhāgavatam or...
Prabhupāda: Yes, realization takes time. Therefore there is no question of realization. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says you simply repeat as Kṛṣṇa says. That will save you. The so-called political leaders, they have no realization, but they manufacture their ideas. That is dangerous. Mislead themselves and others. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, ācāryopāsanam. Amānitvam adambhitvam. This is the process of knowledge. These so-called scholars and politicians, they have no ācārya. Instead of being amānitvam, they're mani... "I have become a leader, so whatever I shall say, it will be accepted." This is going on. Very bad. It is clearly said, as soon as you give up the ācārya system it is rotten. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So things which is rotten, what you'll get benefit? That is going on.
Dr. Patel: If they had followed Raj Gopalacharya this country would have been far better in knowledge. Raj Gopalacharya. That is because he was paraṁ bhakta, to tell the truth, always.
Prabhupāda: Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate (SB 5.18.12). Therefore he was qualified. Anyway, if you are interested in Bhagavad-gītā, how you can misinterpret? How you can put your own words to mislead people? How much misleading this is.
Hari-śauri: Actually they're not interested in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: I knew all these things but what I am? I have no position.
Dr. Patel: But what you have commented is correct. And the Bhagavad-gītā, real thing is man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Instead they directed their attention to karma and this and that. It was and similar thing...
Prabhupāda: But because they did not learn subject matter from ācārya. Yes. Ācārya, one has to learn from the ācārya.
Dr. Patel: Best commentary is the Bhagavad-gītā itself. It needs no commentary. It is so simple to understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ.
Prabhupāda: And commentary, interpretation required when you cannot understand. It is very easy and still these rogues will exploit and mislead people. This is... And perhaps, this is the first time I am pointing out. Before that nobody did.
Dr. Patel: And you wrote I have read your commentary twice and it has become very harsh on those people.
Prabhupāda: I must be. They are doing wrong thing. They are doing great harm to the... They are misleading the... If I become little more powerful, I shall do it more harshly. I did not show because I was non-entity. But I knew it. Now people are taking me little seriously, I am talking. (break) In the beginning I thought, Who will hear me? Better wait for the time. Therefore I wrote Mahatma Gandhi, that "Now you have got your svarāja. Please come, let us preach Bhagavad-gītā. You have..." If he would have given the chance at that time, then long ago this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement would have been started.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul is within this body. The body is different from the spirit soul, and as it is changing—the body is changing—similarly, after death, so-called death... Because spirit has no death, no birth. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. And if you are preaching, they are opposing us. India also opposing. This is our position. They take Bhagavad-gītā and they mislead them. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our fault. So what we can do.
Prabhupāda: So, our point is that if he was not on the platform of mokṣa, liberation, why did he waste his time by spoiling himself and for spoiling others? Now he has come to his senses, it is good, but it is to be understood that he simply spoiled his time and spoiled others' career by misleading them. Thus, without being liberated, nobody can guide anyone. That is useless. That is andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If you have no eyes, then how can you lead others? If you are blind and they are blind, then what is the use of becoming their leaders? Actually all the so-called leaders and scholars, they are blind themselves and they have become big, big leader. That is the misfortune of the present life. And, therefore, our proposition is you take direction from Kṛṣṇa and His representative. That's all. That will help you. Try to understand this point.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...article in... (Hindi) I was very much satisfied. New Vrindaban. Who wrote it? Somebody went there in my New Vrindaban.
Indian man: I think Mr. Dvari. That I can find out.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) The people are misled. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum. Artha-brāhmaṇa-paṇḍita (SB 7.5.31). Pandiya means...
Indian man: Yeah. brāhmaṇa.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's from Benares.
Prabhupāda: Pandiya means paṇḍita. Brāhmaṇa. (Hindi) Illiterate.
Prabhupāda: If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand.
Dr. Patel: Madame Curie was a...
Prabhupāda: All bogus. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: You are getting too harsh on them because...
Prabhupāda: No, no. How can I give you equal rights, because your brain is less substance.
Dr. Patel: We cannot degrade our mothers that way.
Prabhupāda: It is not degrading. It is accepting the actual fact.
Dr. Patel: These girls are misled, these American girls.
Prabhupāda: There is no history. There is no history. Just like Kunti's mother. She produced so many heroes, but she was not hero. She could produce heroes like Arjuna, like Bhima. But not that she becomes hero.
Dr. Patel: Mother can produce heroes...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Still, nobody will say that Kuntī is as good as Arjuna or Bhima.
Dr. Patel: How can anybody say?
Prabhupāda: That is... How you'll get the equal rights?
Dr. Patel: I was also thinking like that, today, I mean, presence I said, that Vaiṣṇavas keep woman...
Prabhupāda: It is different situation. I cannot reject anyone.
Dr. Patel: No, that's right. You are right. But this is a great affecting the boys down here. After all...
Prabhupāda: But they are taught, "Don't be misled." But if they cannot, that (indistinct). I cannot deny. I cannot deny. I cannot say that "You are woman. You are condemned." I cannot.
Dr. Patel: Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to keep women away from...
Prabhupāda: That is personally as a sannyāsī, not that... He never said that women should be refused Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Patel: No. Nobody has said so. But they should not mix.
Prabhupāda: Here in the Western country it is their custom to mix, intermingle freely. How can I stop it? I may stop in my temple, but they will do it outside. So it is impossible.
Prabhupāda: So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer. "Don't talk of big, big life. Make a chicken." And this rascal cannot do that, and still, they'll talk big, big words. What do you think? Are they not rascals? These rascals they are talking big, big words. First of all prove. Make one egg. Then talk of big, big brain. Make one egg. It is... Everyone can see. There is some white chemicals and some yellow chemicals, and it is covered, and it... You analyze and combine the chemical in the same way and put it in the incubator and get one chicken. Why? You are technologist. Say why they cannot do it. And when they cannot do it, why they talk so big, big word, mislead others and mislead himself?
Prabhupāda: They do not know how things are happening. (japa) Thinking, feeling, willing. First of all thinking, then feeling, then willing, then working. (break) ...and spending for military strength. They are not performing yajña, so how there will be rainfall? There will be warfare, devastation. Most rubbish civilization, modern misleading, soul-killing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Very difficult to live with them. Still, we have to do this Kṛṣṇa's business. So we have to do our business. Let the dogs bark on. We don't care for it. If we remain sincere to Kṛṣṇa, that is our victory, not the result. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. We have to act according to direction of Kṛṣṇa, that much. We want to see good result. Even there is no good result, we don't mind. We must be sincere to Kṛṣṇa that "We have done our best." That's all. Without cheating Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty.
Prabhupāda: You read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Because Gandhi or Vinobha or Vivekananda or Aurobindo, they did not come in the paramparā system. They have made themselves important by their own ideas. That we want to check. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You cannot make any amendment or correction in the Bhagavad-gītā. But these people, unfortunately, they take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and give their own comment.
Mr. Pandiya: To suit their purposes.
Prabhupāda: That's all. This is the dangerous... And they are considered as big men, and people follow, and they are misled. Otherwise, in India, so much fallen condition due to these rascal leaders. That I am speaking repeatedly, although it may be very harsh. But we have to say that. Everyone has distorted. Gandhi says Kurukṣetra, "this body." Where is the chance of talking of "this body," the Kurukṣetra? Has he not?
Guest (1): Yes.
Mr. Pandiya: At the present days, sir, people do not go through either Gītā or Bhāgavata. They read some commentator. Then they get some doubt.
Prabhupāda: So if they willfully become misled, then who can check it?
Guest (5) (Indian man): He should hear it from sādhu, not from the other places.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pṛthu-putra: In Vṛndāvana. Ah, yes. Puruṣottama, yes.
Prabhupāda: He has poisoned this Nitāi.
Pṛthu-putra: Oh. Is it because we have the desire to come in contact with such persons that we contact them, like Nitāi contacting that Puruṣottama?
Prabhupāda: You may not desire, but if you are not strong, you'll be misled by these rascals. But if we follow this instruction, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, āra nā koriho mane āśā, oh, then you become strong. Then you remain strong. Our bhakti line is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). We should be completely zero of our material desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). Śūnyam means zero. So our classes are not held here?
Satsvarūpa: Bhāgavatam class in the morning? No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then? This is not good, so many devotees and there is no class. Where they have gone now?
Prabhupāda: Sādhu means bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He's sādhu. Who? Who has no other business than Kṛṣṇa. Mix with such sādhu who are actually executing kṛṣṇa-bhajana. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ. This is the description of the sādhu. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). These things are there. There is no question of being misled. But if you purposefully mislead yourself, who can check?
Prabhupāda: In the beginning you may commit some mistake, but when you study Bhagavad-gītā—who is sādhu, who is mahātmā, who is guru—then why shall we make, commit mistake again? If you have done mistake—you have gone to a rascal who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious—then when you read Bhagavad-gītā, you can understand. Why you are misled? Why you should be misled? If it is written on the road, "Keep to the left," why should you be misled and go to the right? Go to the left. Then you are not misled. So here it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). A mahātmā means who is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why do you accept somebody as mahātmā who does not speak about Kṛṣṇa? Then you are misleading yourself. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Everything, direction, is there. Why you create your own mahātmā? If you want to be cheated, who can check you? That is your fault.
Prabhupāda: That is mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). Sādhur... Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk (BG 9.30). He's mahātmā. He's sādhu. We shall go to him. Why shall we go to a rascal? Simple directions. So if you are misled, if you are cheated, whose fault it is? But if you want to be cheated, who can check? Even though somebody by mistake has gone to a rascal, the book is there. As soon as you find out, "Here is a rascal who does not know anything about Kṛṣṇa, and I have come to him," reject him. That is stated in the śāstra. Gurur apy avaliptasya kāryākāryam ajānantaḥ parityāgo vidhīyate.(?) Even by mistake you have come to a rascal who does not know how to become guru, you can reject him. Why should you stick to him? Reject him. And by mistake I have come to rascal. Why shall I continue to accept him as guru?
Prabhupāda: Our only mission is para-upakāra—we don't want to exploit anyone—Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. The people in general, human being, they have got this opportunity of being out of the clutches of māyā and they are kept in darkness. What is this? Is that civilization? This is our mission. Here is opportunity for his getting out of the clutches of māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14), and they are being misled, the so-called science and nasty philosophy and economics and making them, training them as demons and rākṣasas. What is this civilization? So our movement is against this demonic civilization. It is really para-upakāra.
Jayapatākā: We were remembering how Nitāi had been poisoned, Nitāi and Yogānanda are your disciples. They were recently poisoned.
Prabhupāda: Hm. By whom?
Hari-śauri: Nitāi.
Jayapatākā: By bad association. Nitāi?
Prabhupāda: Ah hah, ah, yes.
Jayapatākā: That... So many devotees are very innocent. They'll fall prey. They'll be impressed by some fancy talking and then can be misled.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: But Your Divine Grace is very expert in very carefully training them up stage by stage.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: There are such machines that have better memory and can figure...
Prabhupāda: What is that better memory?
Satsvarūpa: Even a calculator can immediately multiply some...
Prabhupāda: But calculator machine, another man is working, so where is brain, calculating? The machine is made by another man, and it is being worked by another man, so where is the brain in the calculator? That is... So you are misled immediately. Bluff.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Word jugglery. Simply a word jugglery.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. What is the value of that? The machine is made by another brain, and it is being worked over by another brain. And who has made that brain who has made the machine? That is māyā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It is coming," they'll say. "In the future."
Prabhupāda: Again "coming." "In future." You are misled by these rascal words. Even if you do in future, what credit is there? It is already there. Why I shall wait for the future? It is already there. If some... We are sannyāsīs, begging, so if you go to somebody—he says, "Yes, I'll pay you one hundred rupees in future. I am trying to get the money"—shall you wait for that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Means no payment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I'll go to a man who has got already. Why shall I wait for you?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Perfect rascal.
Prabhupāda: Perfect. They do not know. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So at least in India these things should be stopped. That is my ambition. India cannot go in that way. We have got so much stock of knowledge. Bhārata-bhūmite haila. That I want. Others rascals may be misled, but in India at least there must be an ideal class. That I want. Why India's name should be defamed? That... They are following in the same blind man's way. Therefore I repeatedly said that "I invite you all. Come. Join. Understand." What is this nonsense? "Health. What will be health?" But where is your health, nonsense? You are going to die next moment.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He didn't say much, but Dr. Sharma, he was discussing, and he was telling that he will definitely make an arrangement in Bombay Hospital for us to speak. But he was very impressed. And some life members came later on when the greeting of the pandal was finished. And some engineers also. They want to discuss something today also.
Prabhupāda: Recruit them. And speak in such societies. We have now our prestige and preaching. It will be very nice honor everywhere. So Kṛṣṇa has given you some talent. Utilize it. These rascals are misleading. Although the instruction is there, they are misinterpreting in their own way, misleading themselves and misleading others. They say the name of God. They do not know what is God, although God is explaining Himself. Such a rascal. God is explaining, "Here, I'm God." He is accepted, and they do not... When you ask them what is God: "That we do not know. Our God is (indistinct)." Such things are there. So they have to be convinced that these half-educated leaders cannot make you happy. It is not possible. They do not know the basic principle of life. Take guidance from Kṛṣṇa. That is our movement. You'll be happy.
Dr. Sharma: I was going to bring to your kind notice, ever since we become independent, our moral fiber is really breaking down. We are spiritually, I think, the..., the deterioration has been very fast after 1947. Somehow this is...
Prabhupāda: This is our so-called leaders misled them. Even Gandhi misled. That Vinobha Bhave is misleading, what to speak of others.
Prabhupāda: That's it. "I kick you on your face with my boot."
Dr. Sharma: So that's what ācārya is saying. "If you don't recognize on the scientists, my foot to you."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kick the scientists in the face. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So this should be stopped. These rascals, these fools, they are passing on as scientists and misleading others. That business should be stopped. Then they cannot answer wherefrom the fish came. What is the answer?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You ask him to answer.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: They say it is too complicated.
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know, and you are passing your remark that life comes from chemicals. Such a rascal you are. You do not know what is the thing, and still, you are declaring your knowledge. You are misleading people. And you are captured, you say, "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it by trying." What is this nonsense? All post-dated check. So these rascals should be stopped. Speaking all lies, propaganda. Let him go to hell, I don't mind. But why they are misleading others? That is the greatest harm they have done. We attack them only for this reason. Otherwise, individually, you go to hell. Who cares for you? But in the name of science and becoming a scientist, you are misleading others. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. You are blind rascal, and you are leading other blind men. Why you are doing these harmful activities? You are admitting that you are blindly believing. So you are blind. You remain blind if you don't accept knowledge. Why you are trying to lead other blind men? Let them have knowledge. They have got the opportunity, this human form of life. This is the opportunity to get knowledge. And you are keeping them in darkness. Is that service to the human?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The real scientists, they must be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise he cannot be a scientist.
Prabhupāda: No. The real thing he does not know. We know. We know on the basis of śāstra, authorities, ācāryas, so many. And what is your support? Your support is yourself. Then everyone will do that. His support is himself. Everyone will become authority. "I think, I believe." What is this nonsense, your belief? These things should be stopped now. (Hindi) Misleading, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These conditioned souls, very stringently bound up hands and legs by the laws of nature, they are trying to lead the human society. This rascaldom must be stopped. You do not know. Say you do not know. That's all. Why you mislead others? Giving them false knowledge. If you do not know even the distinction between the living entity and the material elements... You are trying to prove the living entity is also combination of these material elements, chemicals. Such a rascal you are. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedam (BG 7.5). It is very important thing. You do not know anything about it. Kṛṣṇa again says, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi. Negative definition. Still, you are so rascal, you do not understand, and you are misleading innocent persons. So combine together as many as possible and go and challenge.
Bhavānanda: We don't stay out. They tell us to leave, we leave, one week later we're back.
Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Everywhere they are doing this. (Sanskrit) The world is misled in this way by bad leaders. We are trying to get (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Russia also they are taking it. So gradually they will take. They are intelligent. And we are neglecting. This is our misfortune. And misled we are. We are neglecting. But the leaders, they do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, and they are professing as "I am scholar in the Bhagavad-gītā." They do not know what is distinction between the body and the owner of the body. The first lesson of Bhagavad-gītā they do not know. Then what they will understand Bhagavad-gītā? This is the first lesson.
Prabhupāda: After death, if you become a tree in front of my house, who can check it? It is law of nature. You cannot check it. Then what will be your position? Stand up for thousands of years in one... So risky. They do not understand. They do not discuss these things in the Bhagavad-gītā, and still they are scholars of Bhagavad-gītā. They write comment on the Bhagavad-gītā, whimsically. This is going on. There are so many things to be learned from Bhagavad-gītā. They do not understand. And they are writing comment on Bhagavad-gītā, misleading others. It is clear. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā (BG 1.1). It is clear. They will comment, they will make some bogus meaning.
Mr. Koshi: Is it that simple and clear for everybody?
Prabhupāda: No, that is the way of interpretation. Amongst the learned circle, interpretation required when the things are not clear. If the things are clear, why nonsense interpretation? There is no need of interpretation. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Kurukṣetra is still there, and people go there for pilgrimage. And in the Vedas it is stated kuru-kṣetre dharmān ācaret. "Go to Kurukṣetra and perform ritualistic ceremonies." What is the difficulty? Why should I interpret, "Kurukṣetra means this, and means this, that"? Why? To mislead others and mislead himself. This is not required. But they are doing it. That is misleading. If you can interpret Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation, then what is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? Everyone can do like that. Everyone can say "It is my interpretation." Then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? These things should be stopped. Real Bhagavad-gītā should be studied. People should make life Bhagavad-gītā and preach all over the world. This is our movement.
Prabhupāda: So everything is clearly said. They do not inquire even that "After changing this body or change dress, what kind of body or dress I am going to have?" Answer is there. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Everything there. And they are reading Bhagavad-gītā. Gandhi's reading Bhagavad-gītā. Tilak is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Where is their knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā? And misleading all, writing commentary, "Bhagavad-gītā means nationalism, nonviolence," protesting that "If Kṛṣṇa is fighting, I don't want that Kṛṣṇa, even I am extricated from the Hindu society." Gandhi has said. Bhagavad-gītā should be according to his whims. If you can change the verdict of Bhagavad-gītā, then why you take Bhagavad-gītā? Is that authority?
Upendra: (bringing garlands) This one was made by a little girl. The boy who fixed the buzzers, his little daughter made.
Prabhupāda: This is our flower? Hm? Get all round, flower, the first land vacant. You should plant them. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca.
Upendra: Paramparā mālās. There's five mālās here for the paramparā.
Prabhupāda: First of all hear. Then tomorrow they... Kṛṣṇa is helping. He'll help more, more. We are not going to be misled by their leadership.
Girirāja: No. They have nothing to say. Actually, the way you've trained us is very good, that you always present their arguments and then how to defeat them or what is the defect, so when we go out for preaching, we're not baffled by their arguments.
Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's policy. Let the rascal Sarvabhauma speak first of all. Let his talk be finished. Hear silently. And then reply. He'll hear.
Prabhupāda: So to understand Bhagavad-gītā and follow the principle—not at all difficult. It is not reserved for any particular class of men or country or society, such a nice thing, and the human body is meant for understanding this knowledge, not to imitate the cats and dogs, jumping. This is being done by the cats and dogs. By evolutionary process, when we come to the human form of life, it is meant for understanding this science. So this opportunity there is, but we are blocking them not to take this knowledge and try to understand how to jump like cats and dogs. Greatest disservice to the human society. We have got such chance, so instead of helping you to get the chance, if I mislead you another way, is it not greatest disservice?
Mr. Rajda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Cockroach is also life. Dehāntara. The proprietor becomes cockroach. Can you check it? Nature will do. Now we are proprietor, next life a cockroach. "Live here in your skyscraper building." How much valuable time he has wasted by constructing this skyscraper building. He remains there in the photograph, and actually his life is in the commode. Cockroach. He is living in the commode, and his son's worshiping his photograph. This is... This is called ignorance. Very misleading civilization this is. So we are trying to save everyone from this misleading civilization. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying ourself to be perfect and trying to teach others perfect life. Kṛṣṇa begins His teaching from this understanding. "You are not this body." This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest (1): So the books which you have written for other people.
Prabhupāda: No. You don't require to read book. We simply say that "You come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." This is treatment. These boys, foreigners, they have come to me not by reading my book. First of all I invited him, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." And then gradually. This is the general treatment.
Dr. Sharma: The Communism, doesn't believe in God, etcetera, etcetera. It is simply fabricated things of the populace. Even Karl Marx when he wrote, he didn't talk anything about God. It was Engels, who was a contemporary, a great philosopher, materialistic philosopher, he started infusing certain things about this. And later on, because of being dogmatic, being wrapped up in this scientific discovery, we're being misled, and they would take many things for granted.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the supreme authority. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Why don't you take this? Distortion of our śāstra, distortion of authority, and bringing something foolish, and you are following. Not... You cannot follow. That is not possible. It is not possible. But you are making some authorities. You trying to follow. Even if you follow... That, the same example, just like Vivekananda was advocating daridra-nārāyaṇa. First of all this is a concocted word. How Nārāyaṇa can be daridra? People have accepted. Nārāyaṇa is daridra?
Mr. Dwivedi: No.
Prabhupāda: Then how he manufactured this nonsense word? It is insulting. If I say, "Foolish Jetthi, President, rascal," so is it not insult? Similarly, if you say, daridra-nārāyaṇa, it is insult to Nārāyaṇa. But people are accepting daridra-nārāyaṇa. Just see how they are misled.
Indian man: They have not even proper knowledge, sir.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian man: They have not even proper knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No knowledge. All rascals.
Indian man (5): I feel, in this country at least, the young generation, the present generation, absolutely has got no base, religious base. And...
Prabhupāda: Religious base is there. There is scriptures. But they are not being trained up.
Indian man (5): They are trained, but after some time they...
Prabhupāda: They do not like to be trained up.
Indian man (5): What will happen to this generation after ten, twenty years?
Prabhupāda: No, if the rascals—again we have to say "the rascals"—the rascal leaders mislead them, there is no hope.
Indian man (5): There is no hope.
Prabhupāda: There is no hope. Now, to prove Bhagavad..., from Bhagavad-gītā, nonviolence, how it is possible? Bhagavad-gītā begins with the word yuyutsavaḥ. And now, if you want to make it nonviolent, that is misleading. Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting spirit. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). So where is nonviolence there? But our leaders want to prove Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. Is not misleading? Hm? Why you should misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā?
Indian man (5): Swamiji, there is no salvation for this country?
Prabhupāda: There is. Not everyone is misled. One who can protect himself from this misleading... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If they can understand their leaders are blind—they have no knowledge—then they'll be saved. That we are trying. And there is obstacle. When we say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being," they take objection. They say, "Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). This is the struggle going on.
Indian man (5): So we have to leave anything in the feet of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian man (5): We have to leave everything...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other day, when I went from Delhi to Calcutta in the plane, I happened to see that Dr. Chatterjee from Calcutta University. She's a lady, woman, but she's very well known. International scientist she has become. Her name is Asina Chatterjee. And I never saw here, though I was studying side by side in the next building, in Calcutta University. She discovered some drug. That's why she became famous. And she's also a member of Council of Scientific and Industrial Research all over India, and also a member of University Grants Commission. So she told me that she went for a meeting to attend in Delhi, and there was also an engineer who was sitting in between me and her, and I was discussing about our plan for scientific conference on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was also Bengali from Calcutta. Somehow she became very interested. I was explaining how scientists misleading, thinking that life can be chemical. And I was describing about how life can be nonchemical and nonphysical. So Chatterjee immediately joined the talk. And I immediately recognized that she must be Chatterjee. So I asked her, "Are you Dr. Chatterjee?" I never saw her before, but I just guessed right. She was Dr. Asina Chatterjee. And she became very interested in the talk, and then she was completely agreeing to our discussion that life is something spiritual, beyond physics and chemistry. So she actually invited me to come and give a talk in chemistry department Calcutta University. So I said that we are coming back with our scientific group from Kṛṣṇa consciousness and would like to present the philosophy in that chemistry department. So like that, there are many...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Recruit them, at least some.
Prabhupāda: But I dared to approach them because I am confident that what I am presenting, it is solid. There is no mistake. It is solid. I never said, "May be, may not be." No. Life cannot come from matter. Never. And the knowledge distribution takes some time. They have distributed ignorance by taking time. We have to distribute knowledge by taking time. False knowledge... Simply promise, future hope... Durāśayā. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānā... (SB 7.5.31). The society remains in darkness, misled by blind men. We want to save the human society from this catastrophe. This is our noble mission. Why they should remain in darkness? Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis.... That should be. Just like some professor in Bangalore, they are trying to expose this Sai Baba. Why? Because they are scientific men, they are protesting, "Why this rascal should keep so many men in darkness? The same rascal. By false propaganda he is appearing mukta, God. What about Sai Baba? We don't see anything.
Prabhupāda: These are the śāstra... Mano-rathena. Those who are on the speculative platform, they cannot have their spiritual qualities. It is a... To the modern world it is a novel idea. It is not idea; this is original qualification. Part and parcel of God, it must be godlike. Gold is gold, maybe a small particle. Similarly, living entity, part and parcel of God, so it is God undoubtedly—in a small particle. But that is sufficient for his perfection. They are being misled other ways, in the wrong side. So who will not like it unless he's a rogue.
Akṣayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning, in the Bhāgavata class, we read a verse how Bali Mahārāja had been awarded all material opulences by the Lord—because of his devotion, not because of his puṇya. So I gave lecture to the devotees—in the same way Your Divine Grace, because of your devotion and preaching, Kṛṣṇa has given you every facility for propagating the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and although there are other nice movements in India, actually they should all join you. They should all surrender to you. We want that everyone should actually join us at your lotus feet because you have actually been given all śakti by Lord Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe tāra pravartana. So I told the devotees like this. "Do not be misled by others, even though they may be appearing to do nice work." Actually you are the only one who is really distributing the message of Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is very obvious by the result. These others have not made even one foreign disciple. And if they did make one, he could not give up smoking, drinking and this and that. So there is no benefit whatsoever. Any intelligent person can see. Plus you have given us so much nectar. Prahlāda Mahārāja says mahāmṛta. I always think of that verse. You have given us so much nectar to absorb our minds in. There is really no chance that we will be influenced by these dry personalities.
Prabhupāda: Now you take up seriously and distribute.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This seems like suicide, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this program. It seems to some of us like it's suicidal.
Prabhupāda: And this is also suicidal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Prabhupāda said, "And this is also suicide." Now you have to choose which suicide.
Prabhupāda: The Rāvaṇa will kill and Rāma will kill. Better to be killed by Rāma. Eh? That Mārīca—if he does not go to mislead Sītā, he'll be killed by Rāvaṇa; and if he goes to be killed by Rāma, then it is better.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is this Prabhupāda's talking about?
Devotees: Mārīca.
| Page Title: | Misleading (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Alakananda |
| Created: | 29 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=230, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 230 |