Prabhupāda: I had a friend. If you give him rasagullā, he'll want little salt. Rasagullā with little salt, he'll eat. Without salt, he cannot eat. And my father, he was, at the last stage of his taking, some rice mixed with milk. While eating that, he'll take a little curry also. So it is a taste.
Milk (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"buttermilk"
|"milk"
|"milk's"
|"milkbag"
|"milkbags"
|"milked"
|"milkers"
|"milkfat"
|"milking"
|"milkless"
|"milkmaids"
|"milkman"
|"milkmen"
|"milks"
|"milky"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: That's all. Godless. They must be like that. Gandhi was a student of Bhagavad-gītā—never taught about Kṛṣṇa. This is his knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: They want the material after killing the source. After killing the cows, they want milk. After...
Prabhupāda: Gandhi was approached by the Hindus that "You are doing so much for the Mohammedans. The Mohammedans are obedient. So why don't you stop this cow killing?" "How can I interfere with their religious?" Just see.
Devotee: This is...
Prabhupāda: "Cow killing is religion." And he was such a fool that if somebody said that "Cutting the throat of others is my religion," he would allow, "Yes, you can do that."
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Business means if you have got extra grains or extra foodstuff, you can sell where there is necessity, there is want. That is business. We are not going to open mills and factories and... No. We are not going to do that. That is śūdra business. The real business is that you produce enough food grains, as much as possible, and you eat and distribute. That's all. This is business. He does not require any so high technical education. Anyone can till the ground and grow food. Is it difficult? This is the business. The first thing is that everyone, man and animal, especially the cows, they must be properly fed so become very stout and strong. Cows will supply milk, and man will work hard, without being suffered by dysentery. He must work hard. Any capacity. Work as a teacher or work as a kṣatriya, work as a ploughman. Or work as general assistant. He must work. Everyone should be employed. And his employment will be provided from any of these groups, according to his capacity. Either as a brāhmaṇa, or as a kṣatriya, or as a vaiśya, or as a śūdra.
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, they are little animals with four hand, two legs, two hand, hand animals. That's all. Yes. Rejected them. Vedic civilization rejected them, mlecchas and yavanas. But they can be reformed. The process is the same. Not that because they are rejected, they cannot be reclaimed. They can be reclaimed also. Just like you are being done. Although you are coming from the mlecchas and yavanas, by training, you are becoming more than a brāhmaṇa. So there is no bar for them. Unfortunately, these rascals do not agree to accept. As soon as you say, "No more illicit sex," oh, they become angry. As soon as I say, "There is no meat-eating," they become angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). The rascals, fools, if you give them good lessons, education, they will be angry. Prakopayati na śamayati. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānām (?). The snake, if you give him nice milk and banana, the result will be he will increase his poison. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grace, they are being now trained up. Now you be trained up and revise the whole edition of the western civilization, especially in America. Then a new chapter will come in. This is the program. Therefore varṇāśrama school required.
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Yes. All fights should be decided by the board. That's nice. And it will be accepted even by the court. Here, in India, there is such system. A board of five, ten men in the village, if there is some fight between two parties, whatever the board will decide that will be accepted in the court. Pañcāyeta. It is called pañcāyeta system. (break) You join. There will be no scarcity. This will engage people. Some are, some of them will be engaged to produce food. Where is the question of scarcity? There is food, there is milk. Eat and drink and be human beings.
Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So that, that is natural. If you give good instruction to a rascal, he'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Mūrkha, a rascal, if you give him good instruction... But give him practical. "Come here. Sit down. Take prasādam. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And help me by doing this." In this way you have to... Just like a child. Child does not want to go to school, but some, by... Find out some means so that he'll be induced. That is intelligence. He'll be angry, naturally. He's a rascal. He'll be angry. That is not unnatural. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Just like a snake. You feed the snake with milk. It will increase the poison. That's all. Practically attract. Practically attract. That is the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will practically attract the people. If the world affairs are adjusted according to our Kṛṣṇa conscious plan, there will be no difficulty for all the nations, all the countries. They will be happy. So we have to educate people gradually. And by our example, living example, we'll have to attract.
Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Go vā kharo vā. The same thing. Go is little useful because it supplies milk, and kharaḥ is useful. You overburden him.
Dr. Patel: No, we were giving milk of kharaḥ to the children in the hospital.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Because that is as good as the mother's milk.
Prabhupāda: Everything has got his use, but still, go-kharaḥ is go-kharaḥ.
Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That is also required. Then, I mean, tending the cows. You see. We are getting seven hundred pounds milk daily.
Dr. Patel: This was in Los Angeles?
Prabhupāda: Virginia. Virginia. Different branches in different states. And the school is in Texas, Dallas. There is immense potency of increasing this movement in America. Immense potency.
Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: Beef! Because they want to... Yes, we read it. They want to be..., slaughter the surplus cows because they are not yielding enough milk. There was very big article I read wherein they said that not only the milk is important, but the cow dung is as fertilizer in the fields much more than the modern day... (break) No? (break)
Prabhupāda: Why it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, go-rakṣya? Why not another animal-rakṣya?
Dr. Patel: Bāgha-rakṣya koro.
Prabhupāda: Why it is specially mentioned? Go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya.
Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That is stated that pitṛṇām. No, what is that verse? Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛnam-pitṛṇām (SB 11.5.41). We are... Just like we are indebted to our forefathers, family, similarly we are indebted to devas, the demigods. Just like the sun is supplying light. So we are indebted. Deva, ṛṣi, to the great, big, big, saintly ṛṣis. They have given us the śāstras. Devarṣi, devarṣi bhūtā... Bhūtā, ordinary living entities. Just like you are taking milk from the cows. And another, horse, is giving me service. So devarṣi-bhūtā apta, relatives. We take so much help from relatives. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛnam, ordinary human beings. Pitṛṇām. And the pitṛs. So we are debted to so many. If you want to clear up the debts, it will take millions of births. (laughter) So devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛnam-pitṛṇāṁ nayaṁ kiṅkara na ṛni ca rājan (SB 11.5.41). This man is neither servant nor indebted. Who? Sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ mukundam. One who has taken... That Kṛṣṇa says, that "You just surrender unto Me. I will protect you." So if he does not do anything else... One may think that he is being entangled in sinful activities because he does not do other duties. But Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). So one who has taken shelter, full shelter unto Kṛṣṇa, he doesn't require to do any so-called social, political and other duties. He doesn't require.
Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. You cannot see in the sky so many things. Now this plane is going on. It may be unseen for some time. So that is the only reason? Because they cannot see? They cannot see milk? They have seen milk or not?
Yaśomatīnandana: Their experience of sea is that it has salt water.
Prabhupāda: No, this is water. As water is also liquid, milk is also liquid. So if there is ocean of water, why not ocean of milk?
Yaśomatīnandana: There can be, but,...
Prabhupāda: There can be, yes. So how they can say that there cannot be?
Yadubara: They would say that "The milk comes from the cow. So how could it be an ocean?"
Prabhupāda: Water comes from man. If you pass urine, there is water. What is the difference? The water also comes from...
Yaśomatīnandana: It is just that it is beyond their experience.
Prabhupāda: That experience should be gathered from authority.
Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:
Devotee: Prabhupāda, in New Delhi the government has banned the use of milk in the sweet shops and there is no more cheese or any milk products.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And there will be no more. These things will vanish. That is stated in the... Rice, wheat, milk, sugar and fruits, they will be no more available. You have to eat meat. That day is coming. But before that day comes, you go back to home, back to Godhead.
Devotees: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa and everything is finished, all this nonsense place, full of demons.
Śrīdhara: "They possessed such an abundance of various kinds of milk products that they were throwing butter lavishly on each other's body without restriction."
Prabhupāda: Just see how rich they were.
Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:
Śrīdhara: "Their wealth was in milk, yogurt, clarified butter and many other milk products. And by trading their agricultural products, they were rich in various kinds of jewelry, ornaments and costly dresses." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...even the richest man, their wife has no bangles. You see? And they are jewelries. Jewelries. Cow, butter, throwing butter like anything, and silk sari and enough food grains. What is more want for material advancement? That is real material ad... You have got everything, material needs. (break) If a man can feed his wife and children, then he is successful. There is no question of charity. There is no question of charity. But here it is said they were also giving in charity. (break) ...stopped to become real brāhmaṇa and give instruction to the society, and they also stopped giving charity to the brāhmaṇas. So therefore the society is so fallen. There is no instruction from the brāhmaṇas and no charity from the kṣatriya and vaiśya. (break) ...proṣita bhārtṛkā. By the dress a woman is recognized. When she does not dress very nicely, it is to be understood that her husband is out of home. When there is the vermillion, that means she is married. When the, what is called, division? Siti. Siti is in this side, then she is prostitute. The dress, when the woman dresses with white dress, they are widow, no husband.
Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Material energy, yes. And the living entities, they are also energy, spiritual energy. Two energies. Two energies means just like fire. Fire has got two energies, heat and light. Similarly, the whole creation is combination of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore everything is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not? Yes. Just like you take milk. From milk you prepare so many milk preparations. You prepare yogurt, you prepare ghee, you prepare rasagullā, you prepare burfi and so many others. But therefore, actually, all of them are milk. This is... Under different combination only. In the milk, if you put some sour thing, it becomes yogurt. But it is milk. And that sour thing also, which is put into the milk, that is also Kṛṣṇa. (break) Why He is originally person, try to understand. And all these energies are imperson. Just like I am a person, you are a person. But when I... My temperature is imperson. Is it not? I have got temperature, if you put thermometer. That is imperson. So person is the origin, and the impersonal temperature is the energy.
Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:
Girirāja: "After this incident, when Yaśodā was nursing her child and patting Him with great affection, there streamed a profuse supply of milk from her breast, and when she opened the mouth of the child with her fingers, she suddenly saw the universal manifestation within His mouth." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa here?" And died. He died. "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" And died immediately. He said his mother, "Mother, you chant Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," because he has learned this. So after hearing, she inquired, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" And died. So I told him, "You have done the best service to your mother."
Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: No, no, animal, mother's milk also animal food.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: Everything is animal...
Dr. Patel: But that does not mean it is not animal. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...tendency.
Dr. Patel: But now the modern eggs, you see, they are not hatched out, and there is no life. Unfertilized.
Prabhupāda: There also, there is life. There is life.
Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: Who can make a distinction between milk and water.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no, means he accepts only the milk, not the water. Similarly, this whole world is mixture of spirit and matter, so he rejects matter; he takes only spirit. That is paramahaṁsa. Go on.
Girirāja: "Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura points out that according to Bhagavad-gītā, the Brahmā day and the Brahmā night are periods of solar years expanding 4,300,000 multiplied by one thousand..." (break)
Prabhupāda: Four, I think. This one?
Satsvarūpa: Yes, 747. Jumbo.
Prabhupāda: It is 447, yes. (break)
Bhāgavata: ...celebrate.
Prabhupāda: The celebration is you have to fast day and night and four times offer worship to the Lord Śiva.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:
Prabhupāda: So where is that arrangement? There is enough land, enough possibility, enough water. Now utilize them and produce food grain, eat nicely and live peacefully and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our philosophy. Why there should be industry? You want to eat after all. Instead of eating this flesh, killing poor animals, why don't you produce food grains, fruits, flowers, food grain, and take milk from the animals and produce milk products, all nutritious food, all nice food, and be happy and remember God for His kindness. This is civilization. What is this nonsense civilization? Now there is petrol problem. I see so many buses, and not a single man, one or two men. And for two men a big huge bus is being run, and so much petrol is consumed unnecessarily. I have seen. I went from Nairobi to London in a plane—only five passengers. Out of that, four passengers we were. Why? Why this nonsense? And there is petrol problem now. They are creating simply, the so-called advancement of civilization, creating problems, that's all. And that is due to these rascal leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They do not know what is the ideal of life, what is the aim of life. They are creating hodge-podge civilization and putting the mass of people in chaotic condition. This is the sum and substance. I do not know whether you'll agreed with me, but this is my study of the whole situation.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:
Prabhupāda: Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akuto-bhayam. In the Vedic civilization even an enemy comes to your home, he should be offered respect. Take more. Now, these foodstuffs are meant for human being. They are not meant for cats and dogs. You should produce more of this foodstuff. And the remaining balance, the skin, you can offer to the animal. They will eat. You take the substance, and the outward, external skin you offer to the animals, and he will eat. She gives you milk. This is cooperation. You produce... Man can produce fruits and flowers, grains, take the substance, and the rejected portion give to the animal. She gives you milk. You require milk. This is cooperation.
Richard Webster: Well, I do myself because we have a small garden and we grow vegetables, (break)
Prabhupāda: ...will the state allow you to kill somebody and remain peacefully at home?
Richard Webster: Is it wrong to kill, to eat fish?
Prabhupāda: You cannot eat anything, even grass, without the sanction of God, what to speak of fish and others. You cannot eat even a piece of grass. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. You can simply enjoy after being sanctioned by God. Otherwise not. This is real philosophy. Everything belongs... Just like in this room, it is supposed that everything belongs to me. Even my students, they ask, "May I take this?" They have got right to take, but still, they ask. Similarly, you cannot touch anything—everything belongs to God—without His sanction. This is God consciousness.
Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:
Devotee: By the grace of pure devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...encouraging in our society to take to agriculture to support this center. I am purchasing land in Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur to become self-sufficient. Whatever production you make, you be satisfied. Little vegetable, little grain and little milk. That is sufficient.
Yogeśvara: In the Vedic culture, was the land divided, in the sense that some people would receive land free or...?
Bhagavān: This is nice here, this ground.
Yogeśvara: The land in the Vedic culture, some of it was...?
Prabhupāda: Land belongs to the king, and you take land for cultivation, and you pay 25% tax to the king. That's all. All taxes. If you don't produce, then don't pay tax.
Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:
Bhagavān: The easiest way to manage, then, is to have everything more or less in small villages.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that was Gandhi's philosophy, village organization. These people, they are attracting villagers to work in the factory, and they are exploiting them. Instead of producing food, they are attracted by so-called high salaries, to the factory, and they are producing bolts and nuts, motor parts. But food is produced somewhere else. But the food producers, they are working in the factory. Therefore scarcity of foodstuff. But this factory owner, he has got more money. He doesn't care. The poor public, they are suffering. Our philosophy is that you produce your food anywhere. You stay, and keep cows, take milk, produce vegetables, food grains, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is our philosophy. Make your life successful. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become free from all these troubles of material condition. This is our education. Don't be after these motorcars, television, and all nonsense things, sporting, wine, women. Don't be after these. Simply eat sufficiently, keep your health nicely, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, realize Kṛṣṇa, and go back to home. This is our philosophy.
Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:
Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamyati (?). A mūrkha, a rascal, when he is given good advice, he becomes angry. He becomes angry. He does not take for solution of the problem, but he becomes angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅganaṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam (?). Because they are miscreants, like snakes, if you give him milk, his poison will increase. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅganaṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam.
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:
Bhagavān: So in our community, when we grow things, or we have need of someone's services, how are these services distributed equally? Let's say we grow cauliflower, we grow peas, we grow wheat. Is it that each family must be responsible and take only what he needs? How is it distributed?
Prabhupāda: No, no. These varieties... Suppose you grow half a dozen different types of vegetables. So from this half a dozen you can make three dozen varieties. If you are a good cooker. So the varieties of enjoyment will be fulfilled. We have got some desire of different quality of varieties. That you can make. From milk, vegetable, grains, the three things, you can make three hundred varieties.
Bhagavān: But my question is, if the community produces... Some class of men produce vegetables and grains, some class produce cows, some class produce clothes, some class produce necessities for building. How are these things distributed equally?
Prabhupāda: Because we are community, we shall distribute whatever necessity for everyone.
Bhagavān: They will come and say, "I need this much cloth, I need this much milk."
Prabhupāda: No, this much cloth... But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you will be satisfied with the minimum necessities of life. That is natural. You won't demand.
Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:
Prabhupāda: It is my practical experience. Śyāmasundara had to waste at least two to three hours to secure rice, fruits. Only milk and butter could we get. And then we had to wait in the... They would not allow us to cook unless they had finished. This was the difficulty. Practically I have suffered. All their claims are bogus. The people are not happy there. The young men are not allowed to go outside the country. Just see. All freedom lost. All freedom lost. It is a government of terrorism, that's all. And whatever the Communists do, simply by terrorizing that's all. They have no gentleman's method. Terrorizing. (break) ...misleading other rascals that "You come this way; you will be happy." And the rascals are being misled. They are accepting. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man is asking other blind men, "Come on, I shall cross you the street." But because he is rascal, he does not ask, "Sir, you are also blind. how will you lead us?" They cannot inquire. Or he does not know that "This man is asking me, who is willing to take the leadership, he is also blind." This blind man does not know, do not know. They do not know. This is going on.
Dhanañjaya: Just like I read in Time Magazine a few weeks ago that Russia has a big problem with alcohol, because so many people are drinking vodka. So because of detente there is easier relationships between America and Russia, and now America is shifting over a Pepsi Cola company. This is a soft drink company. They are going to build a big factory near Moscow. And so Brezhnev said, "Well, I hope that people will now take to soft drinking and this will ease our alcoholic problem in Russia."
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: Just hear me. But when you come to the form of human being, you should have discrimination. If you have no discrimination, simply you live like animal, then where is the difference? My only point is the lack of brain. Human being, he has been given by nature... They are also life, the fruits, the vegetables, the food grains, the milk, the sugar, they have got enough food value, and the human being should be satisfied within this group. Why they should maintain slaughterhouse, and do not think that they are not sinful, and still they want to be happy without caring for God? That is lack of brain.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Yogeśvara: Perhaps to make it clear for you, one of the natural results of this system is that a man that might be considered today impoverished, as you were mentioning for example some of the problems, a poor man, by our standards, is not necessarily poor if he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. For example, in the Vedic culture, we are learning that a man is considered to be wealthy if he simply has a small patch of land and a cow and God consciousness. Because his God consciousness will lead him to be satisfied by growing his own foods, taking milk from the cow. This is wealth, according to Vedic standards.
Prabhupāda: Therefore cow is specially recommended, go-rakṣya, because very important animal to the society. If those who are meat-eaters, they can eat the hogs and dogs, they can eat. The Vedic injunction is not prohibiting them. If you actually... Actually, a human being does not require to eat meat. He has got many other substitutes. But still, if he wants to eat, let him eat the less important animals. Just like dog, hog. From the social point of view it has no utility. But why killing cows? It is delivering such a nice nutritious food, milk. Not only milk. According to Vedic system, the cow is so important, even the urine, even the stool, of cow is important.
C. Hennis: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So such an important... And besides that, from moral point of view, you are drinking the milk of cow, and after that you are sending to the slaughterhouse. Do you like to send your mother to the slaughterhouse? And the bull is giving you, producing your food. Nowadays they have invented tractor or engaging sometimes horse. But in India still, the bulls are engaged for tilling the ground, the field, and produces. So from moral sense, the bull is producing your food and the cow is giving milk to you; therefore father and mother. Just like father produces food for the children and the mother gives the milk. So if the human society has not this simple brain of understanding, then where is brain?
C. Hennis: Of course, when you speak of the distinctions that are made between pious activities and sinful activities...
Prabhupāda: They have no such distinction. There is no such distinction.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
C. Hennis: You have to establish first of all a...
Prabhupāda: No, it is already there. It is already there. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Those who are interested in producing means of living, or foodstuff, in the society, say, the mercantile, the agriculturist, they should give protection to the cows. That is very essential, that milk is so important thing. If you get... Now, we have, in your western country, we have introduced such ideas in West Virginia. We have started one community project where we are keeping cows also. The cows are giving more milk than in other farm. They are so jubilant. Even up to eighty pounds milk, they are giving, because they know that "These people will not kill me." They know it. They are very happy. We don't kill their calves. In other farms, as soon as the calf is there, in front of the mother they are killed. You see? So if these things go on without any brain, without any intelligence, you may make hundreds of organization, the society will never be happy. This is our verdict.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Yogeśvara: He admitted it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will admit it. Cow is giving milk-mother. And bull is producing food—he is father. And they are being killed? Is that human society? How they can be happy? There is no possibility. Regularly they are maintaining slaughterhouse especially for the cows and bulls. Why don't you slaughter the dogs and hogs and eat if you are meat-eater? There are many meat-eaters who eat dogs. Dog is useless. You can eat. Hog is also useless. They are eating also dog and hog, everything, whatever they...
Yogeśvara: His point was that they can... He was thinking that man has the capacity for resolving his own problems. Simply we have to come together and organize.
Prabhupāda: That is United Organization. Why do they not think all these things?
Yogeśvara: There is no direction.
Prabhupāda: No direction. There is no brain. Therefore for the last, why last? Twenty years? Before that, in our younger days, the League of Nation, that was formulated in 1918, '19. So they are trying to unite the whole nation under different names from '18, apart from other year. So for the more than fifty-five, sixty years, they are all good brains of the nation. What they have done? That means they have no brain. The problems are increasing. Instead of decreasing the problems, they are increasing.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: But enjoy does not mean that you enjoy sinfully. Did God give that document, that "You enjoy as you like, sinfully." Enjoy. There is prescription. You enjoy to the prescription. God says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam (ISO 1). You simply enjoy what is allotted to you. Don't encroach upon other's property. This is God's injunction. You enjoy. As human being, you enjoy life. You have got food grains, fruits, flowers, milk. Enjoy life. Offer to Kṛṣṇa. Enjoy life. Why should you kill animal? That is God's... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. He says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Why do you go to kill animals? That is not enjoyment. That means you suffer, therefore you are suffering. You are creating suffering. So this man is at least informed that they have no brain.
Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:
Guru-gaurāṅga: Some time ago I read in the papers that they had so much milk and so much butter that the government proposal was kill the cows.
Prabhupāda: Kill all the animals. Oh, just see. They will not give to others.
Bhagavān: The farmers were complaining that their prices weren't competitive cause there was so much milk.
Prabhupāda: The price is the standard, not that goods are required. They want money for purchasing wine. This is the difficulty. They are not satisfied simply by eating sufficient. They want money for woman and wine. This is their philosophy.
Bhagavān: In the United States that same problem was there, that the prices were all going up. Everything was having inflation.
Prabhupāda: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.
Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.
Yogeśvara: That was my question. If there is necessity for exporting, then there is necessity for maintaining ships and trains and means of communication, employing workers, electrical dynamos for running...
Prabhupāda: No, point is if in one place you can produce food grains, butter and milk, why not other place? That is my point. The land is everywhere the same. If one place... Now here, in Europe and America, there is enough production because the population is less. So the whole America is bigger than India, at least four times. And the population is not even half. What is the population whole America?
Bhagavān: 200,000,000.
Prabhupāda: And India?
Bhagavān: About 600,000,000.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And the land is four times more than India, at least. Therefore you find excess. You see? Otherwise, India is also producing. No, India is not producing. It is not utilizing all the land.
Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: Then this is simply a false pride, that "I can do something." You cannot do anything. Rather, you can do this service, that "There is God. You are servant of God. Please become servant of God." And if you make this program, "I can give food to so many," what you can do? There are millions and millions. People are starving all over the world. What can you do? It is simply false pride. You cannot do anything. Now, just like I have heard that in your country, because they have got excess milk supply there was recommendation to kill twenty thousand cows. Is it a fact?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So is it very good intelligence? Because there is excess of milk supply, why not supply it to others who are starving for milk?
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: You want to translate that?
Guru-gaurāṅga: "But when we go to India, on the other hand, you may see cows dying of hunger, just bare skeletons."
Prabhupāda: But there are so many human beings also dying out of hunger. Is it to be recommended that they should be killed? There are many human being also; they are also skeletons. They have no sufficient food. So if you think that the cows are skeletons for want of food, you supply them food. Why you are restricting? If... The Americans, they are throwing tons of food in the water. Why they do not send to India for feeding the skeleton cows? What the cows have done? They are also living entity.
Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: So far I have studied... I am traveling all over the world. It is my calculation that we can produce food to give food ten times of the population if we properly utilize the whole planet according to this-produce food. Why because the milk is produced more, the cows should be slaughtered when there is a need of milk? It is so nice foodstuff. So on account of this false nationalism, "This is my land, this is my land, this is my land..." And why not take it as God's land and produce enough foodstuff. There will be no scarcity. There will be no skeleton. And distribute it. Where is that consciousness? There is so much land uncultivated all over the world, especially in America, in Australia, and in Africa, so much, huge land, no cultivation. They are keeping some cows and slaughtering them and exporting. What is this? Why don't you produce food?
Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:
Jyotirmayī: Then he said that so is it not that God, the person, this divine essence, is a superperson, an evolved person, and not exactly somebody impersonal. Like he said that in Śaṅkarācārya's philosophy there is the conception of tat. So is not this tat conception, this divine essence, this superperson...
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is divine essence. God is divine essence, just like you have volumes of milk and you churn it, then you get so much butter. So the butter is the essence of the milk. Similarly, the spirit is vast, all-pervading. The example, another example, is just like the sunshine universally spread, very big. Then you concentrate the sunshine, it is sun globe. And if you still concentrate, you will see within the sun globe there is sun-god. So he is the essence of this light, the sunshine light, the sun globe light, and the person—sun-god, Vivasvān, he is person—he is the essence among all this light. That is explained in the Brahma-samhitā, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). The whole creation means expansion of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato (Bs. 5.40). By expansion of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, this Brahman, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam, tad brahma (Bs. 5.40). That Brahman. Brahman is..., just like the sunshine is the expansion of the bodily rays of sun-god.
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: You can export after death. What is the wrong? You can export. Immediately, you take the cows after death, take the skin and take the meat also, skin and flesh, and put it into refrigerator and make export. We simply say that until the death of the cow, don't kill. Let us take the milk. That is our appeal only. What is the wrong there?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Also, the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were telling us in Geneva that in India it was, at least until the present day forbidden to eat cows, and that those who would eat animals, they would eat dogs or goats, like this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We recommend the meat-eaters who eat dogs, as Korea, they're eating dogs, so you can eat also dog. But don't... You eat it. After death. We don't say don't eat. You are so much fond of eating. All right. You eat. Because after the death, we have to give somebody, some living entity. So generally, it is given to the vultures. So why to the vultures? Take the civilized men, who are as good as vultures. (laughter) The so-called civilized men. Yes. What is the difference between the vultures and these rascals? The vultures also enjoy a dead body. And they also kill, make it dead and enjoy. They're vultures.
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Now, this is our proposal, that why you should kill cow? Cow may be protected to take milk, and use this milk for so many nice preparations. Then, so far meat-eating is concerned, so every cow will die. It is a fact. So you wait a few days only. There will be so many dead cows. So you take all the dead cows and eat. So where is the bad proposal? If you say that "You are restraining us from meat-eating," no, we don't restrain you. We simply request you that "Don't kill. When the cow is dead, you eat it."
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the western countries now, the young people, when their parents grow old, they generally send them away to old age homes. So if they have no compassion even towards their own parents, that they would send them away, then how can we educate them to protect the cow which is just like mother if they're even willing to practically kill their parents?
Prabhupāda: So there is no question of protecting. We shall protect. Simply we ask them that "Don't purchase meat from the slaughterhouse. We shall supply you the cow after his death." Where is the wrong?
Satsvarūpa: Not enough meat.
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: No, fast, fast. Fast means you have to eat the cow's flesh. So how you can make it fast? The cows' number are the same. So it will remain the same. Simply you wait for the natural death. Where is the restriction? You have got a limited number of cows. Either you wait for the death, or you kill it at once, the number of cows are the same. So we simply request you that you don't kill them. Wait for the natural death and take it. What is the wrong? The number of cows is the same. You cannot increase it. Increase or decrease, the number of cows is there. So we simply request you that so long they're alive, let us take it's milk, and give nice foodstuff to the human society.
Yogeśvara: If they don't kill it, they'll be even more cows.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yogeśvara: If they don't kill the cow, then they will have even more meat, because then the cow will have more time to reproduce, more calves. If they don't kill the cow right away.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: More cows. Yes. They'll have more cows. Simply we request that "Don't..." You propagate this. "Don't kill, don't maintain the slaughterhouse." It's very sinful. It has got very awkward reaction on the society. Stop this slaughterhouse. We don't say that you stop eating meat. You eat meat, but don't take it from slaughterhouse. Or don't by killing. Simply wait, and you'll get the... How long the cow will live? Their maximum age is twenty years. So not that you have to wait for twenty years. There are many cows, eighteen years, sixteen years or ten years. So wait for that much time. Then you regularly get dead cows and eat. What is the wrong? You make this propaganda. You may, for few years, may not get. By that time, you can eat some dogs and cats. (laughter) Yes. The Koreans, they are using dogs. Where is the difference between you and the Korean? You can eat also dogs for the time being. Or hogs. You eat hogs. We don't prohibit killing of these small animals. We don't sanction, neither prohibit. But especially we request cow protection because it is ordered by Kṛṣṇa. Because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious people, therefore we have to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa, go-rakṣya. That is our duty. And economically also, it is very useful. Kṛṣṇa has recommended for nothing, it is not like that. It has some meaning, that if you have got cows. You see. They're... Our cows in New Vrindaban, they're giving more milk than other cows. Because they are confident that they'll not be killed here. They have got sense. Not like that rascal, "They have no soul. They have no sense." They have got sense. In other places, they do not give so much milk. But in New Vrindaban, they're so jolly, as soon as Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja calls, they'll come. Yes, just like friends. And they are confident that "We'll not be killed." So they are jubilant, and they're giving much milk.
Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Basin, basin. So one basin full rice he will keep in the middle of the shop. And there are rats. So the rats will take the rice, and not cut even a single cloth. It is practical. Yes. They are also animals. Give them food. They'll not create any disturbance. Give them food. Yes. Because cloth are very costly. And there are rats. If one cloth is cut by the rat, then it is great loss. So to save from this loss, he'll put in a basin... Rice was nothing. Rice... In our childhood, we have seen, two ānās per seer. That is with profit. You see. So one basin full rice, it doesn't cost even one ānā. So by giving one ānā worth food, he saves so many, hundreds of rupees cloth. Otherwise, if they're hungry, they'll cut it. Everyone has got obligation. Even the tiger. Even the tiger... One saintly person was in the jungle. His disciples said the tigers will never come and disturb in the āśrama because the āśrama head, they'll keep some milk little far away from the āśrama, and the tigers will come and drink and go away. He'll call, "You tiger, come and take your milk here!" Just like we call the dogs. They'll come and take the milk and go away. And they'll never attack any inmates of the āśrama. He'll say, āmāra ajni hana isko bolo naya (?): "They are my men; don't harm them." Yes. Tigers can be trained up. Just like dog. They are a dog species. More ferocious, that's all. More ferocious dog. That's all. So you can train them. I have seen in the World Fair. One man has trained... I think most of you have seen. One tiger and one lion. And he was playing with that tiger, lion, just like one plays with dog. They can be trained up. They can understand also that "This man loves me. He gives me food. He's my friend." They also appreciate. Just like this picture, you have seen, Haridāsa Ṭhākura? The big snake is going. The snake also knows that "He's saintly person. He may not be disturbed. Let me go away." And from reason also, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is everyone's heart. He's dictating. So Kṛṣṇa can dictate to the animals, to the serpent, to the man, everyone. Such nice foodstuff. And mostly they are made of milk. These people, they do not know. They kill the cows and throw the milk away to the hogs. And they are proud of their civilization. Like jackals and vultures.
Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: They have learned this preparation, these girls. We have taught them. We are strictly vegetarian. From grains, from milk and sugar, and just two three, things, we require, and we can prepare thousands of preparations out of that. From milk and grains and sugar... And? What else?
Pṛthu-putra: Fruit, vegetables.
Bhagavān: Fruits.
Prabhupāda: Fruits, vegetable, we can prepare thousands of preparations, very palatable. Some of them you can taste. Yes, take. Whatever you like, take.
Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Oh, sandeśa. It is milk preparation. Give him one more. No, no. This sandeśa, you give him one more. So our recommendation is, "Don't kill cow." Take milk and make thousands of preparations, all nutritious and very healthy. They do not know how to use cow. Instead of killing, if we take, let the animal live and give us milk, and from the milk, we make hundreds of preparations. The milk is nothing but blood, transformation of blood. So we take the blood by killing the animal, but we do not wish to kill such an important animal, but they take the blood in form of milk and make preparation. And those who are flesh-eaters, let them wait for the death of the cow. Then let them eat the flesh, not living condition. So we are making preparation that keep the cows, protect the cows, and when the cow dies, the flesh-eater may take it away. So he can take the skin, he can take the hoof, he can take the horn, he can take the flesh, everything, whatever he likes. Because when it is dead, it is no more useful for us. So the others, who are interested with the skin, in the flesh, in the hoof, they can take it. And they get it free. Without any cost. Because after death, we don't want it. So this is our program. Let the cows live. We take sufficient milk. We are getting milk, one thousand pounds. One thousand pounds daily in our, one center, New Vrindaban, Virginia. So we are making various preparations from the milk, and they are very happy, and the cows are also happy. So this is one of our programs, to stop killing this important animal. And the flesh-eaters may wait a little until the cow dies. Then he gets the opportunity. Why there should be slaughterhouse maintained? As you are one of the leading citizens of Paris, we appeal to you to take up this consideration seriously. Why we should maintain slaughterhouse? If we want to eat the flesh, let us wait till the death. And there will be death. There is no doubt about it. So why they should maintain slaughterhouse? And this is most cruelty. A animal which is giving milk, so important foodstuff, and that is being killed, it does not suit any moral sense of any human being. On the contrary, according to Vedic system, there are seven mothers. And cow is accepted one of them. Because she gives milk, and we take her milk, therefore she's our mother. So this is our philosophy.
Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:
Pṛthu-putra: A French saying that says, "We don't have to kill the cow's milk."
Yogeśvara: The cow who gives milk.
Pṛthu-putra: The cow who gives milk.
Yogeśvara: One should not kill... That's a French saying.
Prabhupāda: Ah!
Yogeśvara: That one should not kill the cow that gives milk.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Very good philosophy. Why don't you follow?
Yogeśvara: It's a proverb.
Pṛthu-putra: Proverb.
Prabhupāda: Problem?
Yogeśvara: Proverb.
Prabhupāda: So put into action this proverb. So that is... You are one of the leading mayor. That is our appeal. What is unreasonableness in our proposal that so long the cow lives...? Cow, every cow gives milk. So it fulfills your proverb also. So under the circumstances, let the cows live peacefully, take milk and make this preparation of cow's milk, and when it is dead, free of charges.
Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Anyway. So vāsaḥ anna. Food. Vāsaḥ anna. Vāsa means residence. Anna means food. Pāna means drinking, milk or water or whatever. You require something drinking. And śayana, sleeping or lying down on bed. Vāsa, anna, pāna, śayana, and vyavāya, sex. Sex also required. Vyavāya, snāna. I have seen in New York. They have no... In a humbug, they have no place for taking bath. They have to go elsewhere. Sometimes some friends come to take bath. The, our students, they were coming to take bath in my bathroom. So snāna. So these things, nil. "When these things will be nil," vāsa, anna, pāna, śayana, vyavāya, snāna, bhūṣaṇaiḥ, "and dress," hīnāḥ, "being devoid of all these things," piśāca-sandarśā bhaviṣyanti, "they will be just like, what is called, urchins."
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:
Professor Durckheim: They are educated too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are always engaged in devotional service. So unless there is some realization, how they can engage their time in this way? (break) "You are human being. You can eat. I have given you fruits. I have given you vegetables. I have given you food grains. I have given you milk, very nutritious, palatable, containing all vitamin ABCD. And why should you kill animals? Why should you give trouble to the others?" This is self-realization, that "Here is another self. The same active principle is working there. The body is different. Why shall I kill him?" So they have realized it. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Equal vision to all living entities, that the self, that active principle, is working in the fish, in the insect, within the tree, within the plant, within the animals, within the birds and within me. This is self-realization. That active principle is soul, and the soul is migrating from one body to another as you are migrating from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So the soul is the same. The body is different. The body is material and the soul is spiritual. When one comes to this understanding, that is self-realization.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:
Professor Durckheim: And eating each other without complex.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they have problem. They are killing only. The human society, they should be advanced so much that even the birds, they have nothing to kill for their eating. They have got sufficient food. And we are advanced human being. We are killing for eating instead of God giving us so much food, enough food. And they are still puffed up with advanced civilization. They have not even human feeling. These poor cows, they are giving us milk, the most nutritious food, and we can prepare so many nice nutritious foodstuff. So let them live. And if I want to eat at all, let it die. Then we shall eat. Why kill it? So they have no common sense. And they are leading the sinful life; still, they are very much proud of their civilization. And they are suffering periodical wars, war number one, war number two, war number three. This number will increase. Not only... Without war, thousands of children are being killed within the womb. This is going on.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:
Prabhupāda: The animals, they are not coming to eat your foodstuff, your fruits. They are, rather, producing milk not for drinking themselves. They are giving you, and you have no obligation? The milk produced by the cows, it is taken by the human being. They do not drink it. So they are giving milk. And after death, you are taking their skin. So every way they are serving. The stool, cowdung, we have stacked here. I have seen. There also fertilizer. In so many ways they are giving you service, and you are killing the poor animal. What is the human civilization? Therefore Lord Buddha wanted to stop animal killing first. When there was too much animal killing, the incarnation of Lord Buddha was there to stop animal killing. In Buddhism there is no animal killing. Although they are now killing animals, but originally Buddha religion means non-violence. Also Lord Christ also said, "Thou shalt not kill." And Kṛṣṇa says, ahiṁsā. So in no religion unnecessary killing of animals is allowed. Even in Mohammedans, they are also... Kurvāni. Kurvāni means they can kill animals once in a year in the Mosque. So everywhere animal killing is restricted.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:
Prabhupāda: This is our philosophy. And apart from this philosophy, because one living entity is food for another living entity, it does not mean that I shall eat my children also. There is discretion, that human being, they should offer these fruits, vegetables, milk as it is prescribed in the śāstra to God, Kṛṣṇa, and take. That is human civilization, not for the satisfaction of the tongue we have to maintain big, big slaughterhouse and eat them. No, that is not human civilization. The main business of the human society is to understand God, and as soon as he understands God, he understands that every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Then how we can eat? That because Kṛṣṇa eats, Kṛṣṇa allows, then we eat. So responsibility is Kṛṣṇa's. This is our philosophy.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:
Prabhupāda: My idea is that all our centers should be self-supported. We do not like that idea that for your support you have to go 100 miles to get your bread. That is a very dangerous drawback. You produce your food locally and then support yourself. The main problem is what to eat, where to sleep. So we get some place and support ourself by producing our own food. We have already begun in New Vrindaban, New..., West Virginia, Virginia, and similarly in other centers, we are producing our food, grains, vegetables, fruits and milk. That is sufficient. But we don't kill any animals. That we don't do.
Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is made out of energy of God.
Satsvarūpa: Here are some sweetballs made out of milk and butter.
Prabhupāda: You can, you can pick up.
Reverend Powell: Made out of what?
Satsvarūpa: Mostly out of milk and butter.
Prabhupāda: Milk preparation.
Reverend Powell: Thank you. And, um,...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can eat.
Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: All of them, give, each, one. We can prepare hundreds of nice preparations from milk. Therefore cow protection is required. Do you like?
Guest: Very sweet, Prabhupāda. (laughter)
Reverend Powell: Something quite different. Hmm.
Devotee: Here, perhaps you can use this.
Reverend Powell: Thank you. Yes, I think I need it. You, you, you're completely vegetarian, and not have meat of any kind and not eggs at all?
Prabhupāda: No.
Reverend Powell: Why not eggs? Because...
Prabhupāda: We are not even vegetarian.
Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: That's it. As soon as the discipline broken, then everything is lost. Now you can dance like a dog. That will not affect. Nobody can do that unless there is spiritual strength. Now, last night Madhudviṣa Mahārāja was singing, and so many men became enthused to dance. So unless there is spiritual strength, it cannot be done. Others cannot ask and dance. No, that is not possible. That is not possible. Unless there is spiritual strength, you cannot enthuse others. So we should have to acquire spiritual strength by following the regulative principle. Sanātana Gosvāmī has therefore forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇam pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam śravanām kartavyam: "Those who are not following Vaiṣṇava principles, one should not hear from him." Why? It is Kṛṣṇa-kathā, Kṛṣṇa's. Now sarpocchiṣṭa-payo yathā: "Milk is very good, but as soon as it is touched by a serpent, it is no more good. It is harmful." So one must be Vaiṣṇava.
Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:
Satsvarūpa: No. I've seen Pālikā do it with a cloth and then mix it with a little milk. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...human being. It is not meant for the beast. God has given different food for different person, different. You will find even food grains, rice-first quality rice, second quality rice. Why nature has produced? Because there are persons who cannot eat third quality rice. So God has given: "Oh, here is first-class quality." They will eat little. And in India there are classes, they will eat so much. So for them that red rice is good. They do not like this fine basmati. I have got practical experience. Sometime we used to give even the servants the same rice. So this man came. He complained, "Bahu." "Bahu" means master. "This rice is not suitable for us." That fine basmati rice. He did not like it. Then the next day that red, big, big. Have seen that? Japanese rice or some, Burmese rice. It is reddish and big and little hard, and he likes: "Very nice." So there are classes of men, classes of animals. I have got practical experience of all this. The big animals... (break) ...living entities. That He is providing everyone. Nobody is hungry. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Satsvarūpa: There are modern theories that milk is actually harmful.
Dr. Harrap: Well, that butter...
Dr. Muncing: The milkfat and...
Dr. Harrap: Yes, milkfat.
Prabhupāda: Milk is harmful? How it is harmful? If it is harmful why you are giving milk to the child?
Dr. Harrap: There is a certain difference here in that milk that we get from cows has a very low proportion of what we call polyunsaturated fatty acids, only about two per cent, whereas in human milk this is about ten or twelve percent. It's a much higher level. So milk from cows, which are ruminants, is quite a lot different from the milk that we get from the non-ruminants, and of course, humans are non-ruminants.
Prabhupāda: But I think there is a book, "Miracles of Milk," written by one American gentleman. He has greatly valued the milk and milk products. Similarly, we Indians, we give very, very importance to milk and milk products.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Dr. Harrap: And we are doing some quite interesting work at the dairy research laboratory aimed at making ruminants' milk, cow's milk, much more like human milk in this way by a special feeding techniques to the cows.
Prabhupāda: Yes, milk means cow's milk. Milk means cow's milk because you find in this book that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go means cow. Cow protection, cow's milk is important, not other animal's milk.
Dr. Harrap: Yes, what about human milk?
Prabhupāda: Human milk is natural.
Dr. Harrap: Yes, but then that's very different to cow's milk.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Dr. Harrap: But we've had very close connections with India in the dairy research laboratory in that Dr. Chulak... Yes, you know him? One of our staff members some years ago spent several months in India developing methods of making cheese from buffaloes' milk.
Prabhupāda: No, India's position is different now. India has practically no milk, and no food. Due to our leaders' mismanagement, there is no milk. India is depending on your milk powder sent by Australia or by Europe. There is no milk. But milk is very important because Kṛṣṇa said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa... We are following the leadership of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was so fond of cows, cows' milk, cows' butter, that He was stealing cows' butter. Yes. Find out that picture.
Guest (2): Brian, you said it was the proportion between polyunsaturated and...
Dr. Harrap: The ratio between them, largely.
Guest (2): I see, rather than the quantity.
Dr. Harrap: Well, you should... The advice is that you keep your general level of fats down, but of the fats that you take, you should increase the ratio between polyunsaturated and saturated. But there is quite a development of milk industry in parts of India. The complex near Annakadana(?), I think, is a very good example of this, isn't it, of the, I believe, the cooperative dairy complex.
Prabhupāda: No, practically also we see. Formerly big, big saintly person they used to live in the forest, and their livelihood was fruits and milk. They used to keep cows and draw milk from them, and whatever fruits are available in the forest, and they have given us these literatures, Vyāsadeva. So the... He has written Mahābhārata, one hundred thousand verses and similarly, this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has given us eighteen thousand verses. And each verse is full of so grave meaning that if you study, it will take months and months together. So they developed such nice brain simply by drinking milk and fruits.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Madhudviṣa: Well, in Australia there is vast areas which cannot be cultivated, like deserts and semi-deserts. The gentleman's contention is that if we try to grow grains in a semi-desert area it would throw off the balance of the natural, the natural pulse of the earth, let us say, and it would cause havoc in other fields. One of the basic things that our spiritual master is putting forward is that if we put an emphasis on producing food grains and milk and vegetables to live on, concentrating on those points instead of complicating our lives with great industries for cosmetics and film industries and things that are really not essential to us... There's people that don't have the essentials and other people who have all the trappings of the modern technological science. Our spiritual master's contention is that real happiness lies in simple living and high thinking and this is the education that we're trying to put forward. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...these are all misconceptions because I am not this body. I am spirit soul. When the spirit soul goes away, then where is the distinction? Suppose in hospital some Hindu dies or some Muslim dies, some Christian die, the spirit... They are stacked together as useless matter. Is it not? There is no distinction there now, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, white, black. Now it is dead body, put aside. Eh? So, but when living, when the spirit soul is there, they are dividing, this designation. So this knowledge that so long the spirit soul is there in the body, it is important. As soon as the soul is gone, it is useless. But people are giving more stress on the body than on the active principle, living force, what is there. There is no study. Suppose you are all scientists. What is your studying about that living force that is moving the body?
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Dr. Harrap: This is cheese that has been made in the C.S.R.O. from cow's milk, and I hope that perhaps you might enjoy it.
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you very much. So you can give some cheese preparation to all these respectable scientists. You have got that sweet, sweet ball?
Satsvarūpa: Where are they? I could not find them just now.
Prabhupāda: You go and find out.
Dr. Harrap: This is a variety of cheese that, what we call a gouda cheese which comes originally from Holland. But it is very much liked in Asian countries and Australia has quite a large export market to many of the Asian countries, and more particularly to Japan. It seems to appeal very much to the taste of cheese-loving people in these countries, and this is a product which is becoming more and more popular in these countries.
Prabhupāda: From milk you can prepare hundreds and thousands of preparations.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. We make. We actually make. At least ten, twenty kinds of sweet preparation we make from the cheese. Therefore our, as recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. People... A class of men should be trained up for agriculture, producing food grain, and cow protection. Cow protection means you get the milk, sufficient quantity, and from milk you get so many nutritious, full of vitamin food.
Dr. Harrap: It's a complete food in itself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are meat-eaters, they can eat other non-important animals, but cows must be saved, even from economic point of view. Here it is said that go-rakṣya. It does not say, Kṛṣṇa, "elephant-rakṣya." Elephant is a big animal, and at least fifty times more than cow, there is flesh. But it is not recommended. But the cow protection is recommended because it has got the miracle food, milk, and from milk you can prepare hundreds of preparation, all nutritious, full of vitamin A and D. So therefore it is recommended, go-rakṣya. It is not that meat-eating is stopped. Meat-eaters may kill other non-important animals but don't kill animal, er, cow. And besides that, from moral point of view, we are drinking milk from the cow, so she is mother.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Madhudviṣa: These are preparations which is prepared from Australian milk.
Prabhupāda: Let him take. Yes.
Guest (2): Oh, thank you.
Madhudviṣa: Give a napkin. It's a sweet preparation called gulab jamin. It is all prepared just from milk which has been made into curd, and then the curd has been fried in ghee, cooking ghee, and then after it has been fried, it has been soaked in sweet water and it is very palatable. It's called a gulab jamin. It is a very famous delicacy of Indian cooking. It requires great skill and art to prepare these. And as our spiritual master said, there is actually hundreds and hundreds of food which can be prepared from this, like the cheese you have there. Even cooking cheese and spicing it with asafoetida and ginger, meat taste can be simulated very, very nicely.
Prabhupāda: This cheese as it is you take, it is as beneficial as meat.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: So why the animal should be killed? Take milk.
Guest (2): What is sweet water? You mean just sugar...
Madhudviṣa: Syrup.
Guest (2): Now is this made here or in India?
Madhudviṣa: Yes, we make it ourselves. Our spiritual master taught us how to make it. (laughter) An ancient science.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I am teaching them, "Eat nicely, live nicely, and be prepared for your next life, for going back to home, back to Godhead." You can take it. It is very nice.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Madhudviṣa: One thing that we would like to mention, as our spiritual master says, there is a definite, according to the Vedic scripture, there is a definite link between consumption of milk and development of fine brain tissues. And if your department of knowledge has some research in that area, we think it would be a great service to mankind if they can be informed how they can develop fine brain tissues. Fine brain tissues which are needed for coping with the problems of this day and age. Not that simply if I disagree with you we'll just fight. There has to be fine brain tissues in order to say, "Let us sit down and talk about this together." And we say, not we, but according to the scripture, there is a definite link between the consumption of milk products, not just milk, but cheese and all different milk products, the consumption of milk products and development of the necessary intellect. This is why, as our spiritual master said, the highly intelligent people of India have lived predominantly, not just drinking milk, but everything they ate was cooked in milk products. The vegetables, rice, even if rice was boiled, milk was put on, ghee was put on the rice. So that is like an unavoidable essential in their diet, not simply from the palatable standpoint, but actually from the relationship between the physical and the metaphysical progress.
Prabhupāda: And thousands of tons of ghee, clarified butter, was offered in the yajña. The smoke created a kind of cloud which is very good for cultivation.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: This industry is horrible work. Simply by tilling your ground you get food grains, and keep some cows, you get milk—your economic problem is solved. Why such big, big industries? Ugra-karma. Then? Go on.
Cāru:
- kāmam āśritya duṣpūraṁ
- dambha-māna-madānvitāḥ
- mohād gṛhītvāsad-grāhān
- pravartante 'śuci-vratāḥ
- (BG 16.10)
"The demoniac, taking shelter of insatiable lust, pride and false prestige, and being thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent."
Prabhupāda: The big two wars of the world happened only on account of this industry. Do you know that? The cause is the big, big industry. Germany industrial, they produce goods. They must have market. But when they go to sell, there is no market. Britishers will not allow to sell them. The Britisher will take, purchase from them, and stamp it "Made in England" and sell it. And this is the cause of two big war. Therefore German declare twice war. Disaster.
Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:
Bahulāśva: Now they're making artificial milk also, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bahulāśva: They're advertising. "It's just like milk without the sour taste, without the bitter taste."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are propagating that milk is not good for the (indistinct) natural milk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some scientist came to see me in Melbourne. He was speaking like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was saying that milk is not good.
Jayatīrtha: Stool is good, but milk is not good. (laughter)
Umāpati: That's all right if you're a pig.
Prabhupāda: Stool is good... We see the pigs. They eat stool. They become very fatty.
Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:
Bahulāśva: They have no brain for understanding Kṛṣṇa. That only comes from milk?
Prabhupāda: Milk?
Bahulāśva: To have a good brain for understanding Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Not eating so much.
Bahulāśva: Oh.
Bali Mardana: Some devotees think that if they eat large quantities of milk, the more they eat, the more their brain will become big.
Prabhupāda: No. That is rajasic.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: Our first problem is, because we have got this material body, eating. Everyone must eat. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If there is sufficient food grains, then both man and animal, they become happy." Therefore our first religion is to produce food grain sufficiently to feed everyone. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva (BG 18.44). This matter has been entrusted to the vaiśyas. They should produce sufficient food and give protection to the cows for sufficient milk. Then the whole human society, animal society, will be happy. But we are disobeying the orders or the rules given by God. Instead of producing food, we are producing motorcars. And motor tires, motor parts. And so many other things. And therefore people are starving. The manual labor is being misused. We are disobeying the orders of God. Therefore we are unhappy. I have seen all over the world. There are enough space for producing food grains. And if we actually produce food grain, we can maintain ten times of the present population of the whole world. There is no question of scarcity because God has created everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). There cannot be any defect in the creation of God. We have created these defects on account of our disobeying the orders of God.
Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: hey are nobody's servant. But at the present moment, education means how to become expert servant. That means śūdra. So we cannot expect any good things from śūdra. That is not possible. Formerly there was monarchy, and the kings were called rājarṣis, saintly king. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). These instruction are meant for the rājarṣis, not for the śūdras. So the rājarṣis, they would take instruction from superior authority, brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, and they will accordingly rule over. And the vaiśyas would produce food grains sufficiently and milk sufficiently. People would eat very nicely, and they keep their health fit and save time for understanding his relationship with God. That is perfect civilization.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Guest (3): That we admit that there's not very high study and it's not something final but I think some...
Prabhupāda: No, that protein fooding supply... Suppose the birds and bees, they have no research institute. They have sufficient protein supply, this supply and that supply by nature. An elephant has got so big body and so much strength that they have not found it by your scientific research. The nature is supplying. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), it is being done. Why you are wasting time in this way? You study what is prakṛti, and what is behind prakṛti. That is real study. The protein supply is already being done. Just like a cow is eating grass and she's supplying milk, full of protein, so do you think the protein is coming from the grass? Can you eat grass?
Guest (3): Something must be...
Prabhupāda: Some... That is something, then there's no perfect knowledge. That is not perfect knowledge. It is... Everyone knows the cow does not take any protein food, it takes on the grass.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: Because it gives milk.
Guest (1): But there are a lot... Buffaloes give milk too.
Prabhupāda: Not so much.
Guest (1): In larger quantities.
Prabhupāda: But, milk means it is scientifically proven, milk means cow's milk.
Guest (3): But what about the killing of those cows which are not the milching type, as cows that are being bred here?
Prabhupāda: First of all, killing is sinful. Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." That is sinful, it doesn't matter whether you kill cow or goat or anything. But from economic point of view, cow is very important because it supplies milk. And milk preparation, we Indians know how many you can get nice milk preparation. Dahi, rābṛi, this, that, Huh? But how nutritious, how palatable. And that is good for human being. First thing is that why you should kill if you have got sufficient food, eh? Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Eh? Vegetables, fruits, then food grains, then sugar, everything is there sufficient. At least we Indian, we know we can prepare hundreds and thousands of preparations, nice palatable, enjoyable. Why should you go to kill the animal?
Guest (2): Well scientists claim that meat ah...
Prabhupāda: Scientists, first of all we have rejected that.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: Therefore Indian civilization is that you take rice, wheat, ḍāl, vegetable, a little milk, whatever protein and vitamin A,B,C,D can be available, that is sufficient.
Guest (2): Dr. Malhotra has done excellent work on nutrition and he has done two books. In those books he has advocated that milk is not the only best diet. Balanced food, you can have by I mean ḍāls and so many other sources.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Milk is not the only one.
Prabhupāda: In, in, in your Punjab, in United Province...
Guest (2): At least his (indistinct) approach it is not one sided.
Guest (1): Swamiji, my main question is although spiritualism is the Absolute Truth, can we not in some way make spiritualism in such a way, modify it in such a way, as to help the common people?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:
Prabhupāda: This is the modern civilization. And that is warned in the Bhāgavata, "No, this is not life." But this has become actually the life, modern civilized life. Therefore it is called avidya, not education, contra-education. (break) ...says, make life very comfortable. Just produce little food grains, and there are fruits. Even if you don't produce food grain, you can live on fruits and milk. No. The milk source? Cut down their throat, cows, and eat the meat. There is no need of food grain or fruit. This is civilization. And thus becoming duṣkṛtina, all the brain is being utilized for sinful life. Duṣkṛtina means intelligence applied for sinful life. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But their merit has been applied for acting sinfully. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. (break) "...by the orders of Christ we shall commit all kinds of sin, and Christ has taken contract. He will take our sin." That's all. Is it not?
Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:
Bernard Manischewitz: You know I'm in the food business, so my first question deals with my food business. I'm familiar with the Kṛṣṇa cookbook—I've read the recipes—but I do not see any suggested menus or nutritional information, and I'm wondering if there's any thought that's been worked on that. Is there any background of menus or nutritional information?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nutritional information means that we require for balance food: starch, carbohydrate, protein, fat. What else? Starch, carbohydrate, protein, fat. These are necessary nutrition, but these things are there in vegetable diet. Rice, starch; wheat, protein; dahl, protein; then vegetable, carbohydrate; and milk, fat. So if we take food and test it within these four, five groups... Eat according to our conception, sattvikaḥ. Sattvikaḥ means foodstuff in goodness. There are three qualities in the material world—goodness, passion and ignorance. So they are described: these are goodness foods, these are passion, these are ignorance. So these items: rice, wheat, vegetables, dahl and milk is sufficient for nutrition. Above that, you take little fruit, it is very good. And in India this foodstuff is taken by the learned circle—brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas—and they keep very good health, very good life.
Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, I had heard—of course, I'm not certain of the source—that because of impiety the sun and the moon, people would not be able to see. So there would be no vegetation. And without vegetation, even animals cannot live. So eventually they would take to eating their own children. Is this what takes place?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there will be no foodstuff at the end of... That is stated. No milk, no food grains, no fruits, no whatever. Especially food grains.
Devotee (2): There will be some devotees left at the end of Kali-yuga?
Prabhupāda: Yes, only the devotees will be left. All others... (break) (loud noise of car screeching.) ...are not very neat and clean. (chuckles) Yes. That means condition is not very good. And it is sound.
Brahmānanda: Not in proper repair.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:
Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is there a jīva, is there a spirit soul in every sperm cell, or does that...? Does the spirit soul only come to a particular sperm cell, or is there one in every sperm cell, and the condition isn't right, so then it dies before, I mean, it leaves before it actually forms a body?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The sperm, generally in every sperm there is spirit soul. But sometimes we put checks. The contraceptive method means putting check. Just like you pollute the milk. Then it loses his strength. So similarly, there are other circumstances which checks the sperm to inject soul. (Break) ...exposing themselves that they are rascal number one. That's all.
Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:
Trivikrama: Citric acid.
Prabhupāda: Yes, lemon juice. Acintya-śakti, inconceivable power. The cow, eating grass, producing milk—this is inconceivable power. Can you produce milk from the grass? But how the cow is producing? Hmm? Answer this. You eat grass and produce milk. Give your wife grass and let her produce milk. (break) Your question is answered? Eh?
Satsvarūpa: Well, it's answered, but they would say that our saying that... You said... I said, "Where did God come from?" You say that is the definition of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Therefore we are offering this place. Come here. Why do you not come here and live with us? Then this is... The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is... This is the movement, that you come here, live with us, and produce your food, produce your milk, be happy, healthy, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our movement. Therefore we are creating New Vrindaban and farm, and we are trying to purchase... This is our movement, that we give you sufficient food, shelter, health, philosophy, religion, character, everything, purity. Come here. Why don't you come? They come here on the weekdays, and then fly away, go away. You see? We are giving such nice room, but they will not live here. They will go to the hubble-bubble of the city. They like to come here. Therefore they spend so much money for gas and come here. But because they are not accustomed, they go back again. Return ticket. From hell to heaven, and again hell (laughter) Return ticket-coming back to hell again, not going back to God.
Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:
Rūpānuga: And milk and butter.
Pañcadraviḍa: Milk and butter.
Santoṣa: In America, prabhu. (break)
Rāmeṣvara: ...that if there is a war between Russia and America, there would be a nuclear war and they would pollute the whole atmosphere with radioactive particles which would kill everyone.
Prabhupāda: It is already polluted.
Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Yes, buffalos. Cow is very important animal. Therefore it is recommended to protect it. From social benefit point of view, it is essential that cow should be protected so that you can get lots of milk preparations and keep your health very nice. So many nice preparations can be made from milk. In New Vrindaban, the other farmers, they come. They are surprised to see: "Oh, so many nice preparations!" They are appreciating. They do not know. It is the industrialist who has introduced this meat-eating. Because they are attracting men from village to work in the factory, so they have made it a policy that "We shall eat cow's flesh. That's all. We don't require..." In Russia, practically, they eat only cow's flesh. They do not know anything else to eat.
Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in your books you've stated that the position of the cow is as important as the position of the brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Hm ? Yes. Go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. We offer respect to Kṛṣṇa as the well-wisher of the cows and the brāhmaṇas. Brahminical culture and preparation from milk makes a man perfect for spiritual understanding. Therefore they are two very important items, go-brāhmaṇa hitāya ca. In the society, if there is no brahminical culture and no cow protection, that is animal society. That is not human society. We are trying to bring the animal society to human society to fulfill the mission of human life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the Germans, they extracted fat from stool. And that was used as butter. This is scientific. They'll have to eat stool even. They have eaten. In the last war, concentration camp, they have eaten their own stool. There was no food. So nature will punish them in that way. They'll eat everything. This godless civilization will lead people to such condition of life. Kadharya bhakṣaṇa kare, tara janma adho pate yaya. This life they will eat everything, all nonsense thing, and next life they become pig, cats, dogs. That's all. This will be.
Nalinī-kānta: The scientists are saying that milk is the major cause for heart attack. Milk is a very harmful food. It causes heart attack.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Milk is the miracle food, and they are condemning by a scientific process.
Pañcadraviḍa: These Chinese people, they hate to drink milk. They like to take yogurt and butter and things, but they won't drink milk.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is yogurt as healthy as milk?
Prabhupāda: No. Yogurt is healthy when you cannot digest properly. One who can digest, for him, milk is better.
Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: Sil. Sil means cultured. A cultured man is called sil. Sushil. Sushil means very culture, very... Sushil. So kalo brahm... This is unnatural. Kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman, kanki chele... (indistinct) Now generally people, we saw, in our childhood, Europeans were very tall and now they are not coming (indistinct). Naturally when they'll not get sufficient nourishment, they'll be stunted. And Kali-yuga means decrease of nourishment, necessities of life decreasing. We see in such a rich man's house, there is no milk. Milk is one of the important nourishment foods. And there is no milk. So gradually there'll be no milk, no rice, no wheat, no sugar. These are stated. Where you'll get nourishment? And the mango, there'll be no pulp, only the seed. These are predicted. After all, you have to live by nature's gift, but these things will be finished. And Russia there is, already there is no rice. There is no fruit. There is no vegetable. Simply we eat meat.
Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: There will be very, very big chaos, this godless civilization. And it is distinctly said, "There will be no grain, no sugar, no milk." These things will be stopped. Eat your sons and daughter. You are very much fond of eating meat. Eat your son. They will do that. I think they are doing now. You know that?
Guest: In Africa, yes.
Prabhupāda: Not Africa.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vietnam, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I heard that the North Vietnamese and Vietcong were killing...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Now they are killing child in the womb. That killed child is taken in the hotel.
Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Supply large quantity of milk? No.
Guest: No, that milk is medicinally used for whooping cough. Anybody suffering from whooping cough, they have to take this camel's milk. And any children who do not increase their height, they are given this milk in winter. So height is automatically increased. They become like camel eventually. (laughter) Tall, I mean. I don't mean the..., in Western way. According to Āyurvedic principle, every animal have got a particular method of curing particular disease.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Now, Sitalamata, she is always traveling on a she-ass. Now she-ass's milk is very good for smallpox. If you take one spoon every day for three days in a year, one does not get an attack of smallpox. Very simple. Ideologically...
Prabhupāda: Her carrier is ass.
Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:
Guest: No, not rat. Milk. We are talking about milk product only.
Prabhupāda: So, milk of the rat?
Guest: If the scientist can extract it, then well and good. Because a very such small mouse.
Prabhupāda: But they must have milk. Every lady animal has got milk.
Guest: No, but what I think a rat is responsible for, what do you call, spreading cholera. So rat must be supplying the medicine for cholera also. Whenever cholera is there, rats are there.
Prabhupāda: But Ganeṣaji is not meant for cholera. Ganeṣaji is meant for success.
Guest: Success.
Prabhupāda: So that means those who want success, they should eat the milk of rat. (chuckles)
Guest: Yamarāja is going on buffalo. So buffalo milk also we are not recommending.
Prabhupāda: Buffalo milk?
Guest: We are not recommending. In the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we are not recommending buffalo.
Prabhupāda: No. Anyone who wants to go very soon to Yamarāja, he can drink buffalo milk. Or it may be that if you drink buffalo milk, the Yamarāja will not touch you. (laughter) The other side may be taken. (break) ...in the morning take water from the river, evacuate, then wash their hands and take nice bath. And one jug water brings at home. Then everything, water problem, is solved.
Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:
Śrutakīrti: Milk?
Prabhupāda: No. You can... Cashew and ginger. And you make, what is called, channa. In the lunch make cheese. Cheese, cheese. Fry it, and make preparation.
Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: That is the business of the vaiśya man. And go-rakṣya. Another business is to protect the cows, and to give them food nicely so the cows will give enough milk. And from milk, you know, so many nice preparations, all full of vitamins. So why they should be killed? You are killing; the blood is not utilized, you are taking the flesh. But flesh is transformation of the blood. And milk is also transformation of the blood. So if you take, just like channa, it is as good as flesh. By taste, by benefit—as good as. So why if you can take the flesh and blood in a human way-blood is transformed into milk, and from milk there are so many good preparations-ghee, yoghurt, burfi, channa, so many preparations are available. This panir, channa, and let the animal live peacefully. Why are you cutting his throat? You require some benefit from the animal. Take this benefit. Why should you kill? If he can live and give better service, then why shall I try to kill? What is this human civilization? Is that human civilization, that I am taking service from you, and I am cutting your throat? Is that humanity? What is the answer?
Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: Anyone who takes milk... Everyone takes milk. The cow is the mother. Mother gives milk. And mother, when she cannot supply milk, mother should be cut up. Is that a very good philosophy? Is it human philosophy? What is the answer? But if you say that somebody wants to, say in your country majority they want to eat meat. So, if you put that argument, then you can eat some lower animals. You can eat the pigs. You are eating also, pigs. Not in a massive scale. Massive scale—if you are Christian you should follow your religious scripture: "Thou shall not kill!" This should be the principle. But if you are a rākṣasa, if you want to eat meat, then at least don't kill the cows. You can eat other, insignificant animals. You are eating also. You are eating everything. Except the moving cars, you are eating all the moving animals. The car also moves, but you cannot eat. Otherwise you are killing everything. You have become so civilized rascal that your business is to kill other animals and eat. You are so civilized. You are still in the crude form of human being, just like in the jungles, the aborigines, the Africans, they do not know how to develop civilization—crude methods, eating the animals.
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: No, you... Śamaḥ, śamaḥ. The first word is śamaḥ?Śamaḥ means equilibrium of the mind. One should be trained up in such a way that he is not disturbed in his mind in any circumstance. That is called śamaḥ. And damaḥ, damaḥ means controlling the senses. Naturally I find one beautiful woman I want to talk with him (her), and he (she) is other's wife. But I should: "No, why should I talk with other's wife?" This is damaḥ, controlling the senses. So śamaḥ means keeping the mind always equipoised, and damaḥ, the controlling the mind. And suppose if... I have to eat something to live. So God has given me so many nice foodstuff: food grain, fruits, milk. Why should I kill an animal unnecessarily, for the taste of my tongue?
Justin Murphy: Selfishness.
Prabhupāda: But I want to live. There are... India, eighty percent people, they are vegetarian. They are living very nicely. They are eating sufficient food grain and fruits and milk and milk product. God has given us so many. So why should we maintain slaughterhouse, killing other animals? So a first-class man will not do that. First-class man will think that "I want to eat something to keep myself fit. If by natural products I can keep myself fit, why shall I kill another animal?" And every religion teaches that. Now take in your Christian religion. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouse. So this is the condition of the society. How you can become happy? You are violating the rules and regulation of religion and God. You cannot become... Nature will disturb in so many ways. That is nature's business.
Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: No, not here. In the sky. There is sweet water, very sweet, nice water, drinking water, sea. Sea of ghee, sea of yogurt, sea of milk. Everything is there.
Madhudviṣa: There is a government house. Simply a monument now.
Prabhupāda: The governor lives there?
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: No, you can eat meat, but you cannot eat meat by killing your father and mother. That is human sense. You are taking milk from the cow, it is your mother. You take milk, that in Australia they produce so much milk, butter, and everything. And after it is finished, cut the throat and make business, send to other countries. What is this nonsense? Is that humanity? Do you think?
Director: Well, say two hundred years ago people to survive the winter had to kill the...
Prabhupāda: No, no. You take your mother's milk. You take your mother's milk, and when the mother cannot supply milk you kill her. What is this? Is that humanity? And nature is so strong, for this injustice, sinful, you must suffer. You must be prepared to suffer. So there will be war, and wholesale will be killed. Nature will not tolerate this. They do not know all these, how nature is working, how God is managing. They do not know God. This is the defect of the society. They do not care what is God. "We are scientists, we can do everything." What you can do? Can you stop death? Nature says, "You must die. You are Professor Einstein, that's all right. You must die." Why the Einstein and other scientists they do not discover medicine or process? "No, no, we shall not die." So this is the defect of the society. They are completely under the control of nature, and they are declaring independence. Ignorance. Ignorance. So we want to reform this.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: So we have got food grains, we have got fruits, we have got milk. By combination of milk and food grains we can prepare so many nice palatable, full of vitamins. Why we should kill the animal? Let the animal live and take it's milk and prepare nice food, full of vitamins. Milk is nothing conversion of blood. So why do you take the blood by killing? Take the blood in a different form, milk. This is our program. Let the animal live peacefully, and if you are meat-eaters, let the animal die and you eat. There will be no charge for it. The meat-eaters, let us keep some animal, take milk, and when it dies naturally, you call the meat-eater, "Please take this." You take the skin free, you take the bones free, you eat meat. Just wait for the death. It will die after all. That much concession I want. But let the animal live without any fear of being killed so it will supply more milk. Suppose if you know that I am keeping you here for killing. Will you be very happy?
Your mind will be always disturbed. We cannot get good service from you. So animal also understands that "They are going to kill us." Therefore you don't get sufficient milk. But when they are assured that they will not be killed, they will give double milk. They do not know the psychology. This is going on.
Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:
Devotee 2: Yeah, they cut the tails off so that when they're milking the tails won't hit them in the face. They do this to all their cows in the milking sheds.
Prabhupāda: For what purpose? The tail, cut the tails?
Śrutakīrti: When you milk the cow, they sometimes hit you in the face with their tail.
Prabhupāda: Oh, oh.
Devotee 1: Sometimes it's very dangerous. They can hurt your eye or something.
Śrutakīrti: In New Vrindaban sometimes they tie it to the ceiling. But not cutting. (break)
Madhudviṣa: ...comprised of spirit souls, unlimited amounts of shining spirit souls?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Combination.
Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: Just see. They can grow food both for the animals and for human being. Instead, they are simply growing food for the animals and killing them. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. You sing this before taking prasādam. The tongue is the greatest enemy and greedy. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. For the satisfaction of the tongue they are risking their own life and committing sinful life to suffer later on. Therefore the first-class man's first duty is to śamaḥ, controlling the mind. If one can control the mind, that "If I can live with grains, food, and milk, why shall I kill the ani...?" this is controlling the mind. They cannot control even this small thing. "Live and let live,"—this policy they do not follow. "Live and kill others." "Live at the cost of others."
Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) In the recent food crisis in the United States, 18% of the people started eating dog food because there's so much... They use such high quality beef and based on so many grains and everything. And they use grains themselves. Milk products. (break) They're even learning how to eat dog food. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...dogs in the beach, you cannot walk without seeing dog. More footprints of the dogs than human being.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Vegetable has also life but we are not killing. When you pluck out the flower, the tree is not killed. When you take a fruit, the tree is not killed. When you take grains, automatically they die. Then you take the grains. There is no question of killing. But even it is killing, it is not as murderous as killing a cow. Why the state hangs a man when he kills a man? The man can plead that "So many animals are being killed every day. If I kill one man, what is the wrong there?" The punishment is that "You have killed one important animal." Therefore the Bhaga..., kṛṣi-go-rakṣya, that cow should be protected because it is a very, very, important animal. It does not say, "Other animal." Or does not say, "All animals." He said, "Cows," because important. It's supplying you milk, so important food. She is your mother and you are killing mother? Is that your civilization? Killing mother? "Mother is old, and mother is no more supplying milk. Kill." Is there any such sanction? Rather, old mother is given more protection. And what is this civilization, killing the mother? In the morning we require milk immediately, and the mother cow is supplying. And when she cannot supply, kill her. What is this philosophy?
Bahulāśva: I was lecturing in the University of Marin in San Francisco. So I was explaining that, and one man said, "This is just your sentiment. You just have some sentiment." So I asked him if he had a dog. And he said, "Yes." So I said that "When your dog becomes old, will you kill it?" So he said, "No, why shall I kill it. It's a good dog." So...
Prabhupāda: Dog is good; cow is bad. Dog is creating always nasty things, and cow is so pure, even the stool is pure, and she has to be killed.
Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Those who are demons, those who are disturbing elements, they should be killed. And those who are honest and peaceful, they should be maintained. But because it is material world, the world of duality, there are good and evil, so you have to curb down the evil. Sometimes force is required. So that killing is not bad. When the enemy is aggressive and you are killing, that killing and poor animal who is supplying milk... You are drinking milk, your mother, and you are killing. This killing and that killing is not the same thing. According to Vedic civilization the cow is to be given special protection. Why it is recommended for the cow? It does not say of other animal. When animal killing is required according to Vedic civilization, those who are meat-eaters, they are allowed to kill some insignificant animal like deer, goat, pigs. It is for the animal eaters, not for all. But if one is bent upon... And there are persons, they want meat-eating. So for them these unimportant animals are recommended. But cow is very important animal. You get from its milk so many nutritious food. So apart from religious sentiment, from economic point of view, cow-killing is not good. And from moral point of view it is not good because you drink cow's milk, so cow is your mother. According to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers.
Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:
Ādau-mātā, real mother, and guru-patnī, the wife of guru or teacher, she is also mother 'cause teacher is father. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. She is mother. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhm..., rāja-patnikā, the queen, the wife of the king. She is mother. And then cow is mother because you are drinking her milk. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi rāja-patnikā, dhenur dhatrī, nurse. Nurse is also mother because you suck the breast of the nurse. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers. So you cannot kill your mother. That is not very good philosophy. And who can deny, "The cow is not mother"? Who has got this audacity? You are drinking milk in the very morning. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill?—wholesale killing stop." And the Vedic literature is little liberal. It does not say, "Thou shall not kill," but, "You shall not kill at least cow." But the wholesale stop is not possible. The Vedic wisdom knows that. But you shall not kill at least cow. That is civilization.
Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:
Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa's position. If He does not supply grains, then He is accused. And He supplies grains, then He is accused. (laughter)
Bhāvānanda: Everyone is accused. (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...those scientists came to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and even said milk was no good.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yadubara: That is what they say in these books on health, these health books. They say that cow milk is no good.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Harikeśa: But meat is all right.
Yadubara: No, some of them, most of them don't say that. It's very contaminating to read those and to follow.
Prabhupāda: Therefore follow taking prasādam. Let whatever may happen.
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:
Mayor: Yes, we do.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And grains and milk. So much nice things. You can avoid meat-eating very easily, as they have given up.
Mayor: It looks very good, but I (indistinct) with a knife. (laughter)
Viṣṇujana: Someone is bringing a fork. Prabhupāda, perhaps we could provide him with some of our literature and that will inform him more about our movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, give him.
Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Jayatīrtha: Made from milk.
Prabhupāda: There are so many program...
Lt. Mozee: Like a cheese?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Fruits, grains, milk. And from milk, you can get hundreds of nice preparations, all nutritious. In our New Vrindaban we are doing that—rabri, pera, burfi. The other farmers are surprised that from milk such nice preparation can be prepared. So instead of teaching them—you Indian, you know how to utilize milk and prepare so many nice preparation,—you are learning how to eat meat. Why? So if you forget your culture and if you become victimized, that is your fault. You should teach them how to utilize milk. And if the cows are kept jubilant, they will deliver double milk. They know, "We shall be killed." They are always depressed. Therefore milk is not properly supplied. So that is stated in the Bhagavad..., er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that during Mahārāja Yudhisthira's time the cows were so jubilant that milk was dropping from the milkbags, so much so that the pasturing grounds became muddy with milk. So if you keep... Killing of cows means utilizing the blood in different form. The milk is also another transformation of the blood. So if you take milk sufficiently and prepare nice foodstuff, then it is equally beneficial like the meat from health point of view. But one must know the..., learn that keep the cow living; at the same time be benefited by the blood. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this word kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. This animal has to be protected. Not other animals it is mentioned. And go, cow. So those who are meat-eaters, they can eat nonimportant animals. But cows should be given protection. This is the instruction. But in the western country the cows are specially being killed. Now the reaction is war, crime, and they are now repentant. And they will have to repent more and more.
Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His question is whether is it due to our impurity that we cannot convince people to stop cutting their throats.
Prabhupāda: No, it is due to their impurity, they do not take. What you are saying, that is pure. But the difficulty is if you instruct a rascal, he becomes angry. The example is given that if you give milk and banana to the serpent, he increases his poison. Payaḥ-panaṁ bhujaṅganaṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. Therefore we have to select sometimes that our preaching is in the proper place. Because a snake-like person, they will not hear. But if you are a good charmer, you can charm the snake also. (laughter) That depends on your quality. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu did. He made these snakes, the tigers, the elephants, all dancing Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is possible by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: Yes, cow, from where you get milk, that cow. So the exact word is used in Sanskrit, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Vaiśya, the third-class man, is called vaiśya. So his duty is how to produce food, food grains, for both for the animals and the man. And he gives protection to the cows. As the second-class man, the administrator, he gives protection to the human being from danger, similarly, the third-class man is entrusted to give protection to the cows. Cow is very important animal in the society because it is supplying milk, the most nutritious food. And... Find out. This is the third-class man's duty. And the fourth-class man means general worker. He has no brain, he simply helps the other three classes: first-class, second-class, and the third-class. And below the fourth-class men, they are called fifth-class, sixth-class. So they are called lower class, less than the fourth-class. So the society should be generally divided into four classes. As I have given example, there is head, arm, belly, and leg.
Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:
Brahmānanda: I was just thinking that in Hyderabad you also spoke something very unpopular when you were discussing about the worship of Lord Śiva and Lord Kṛṣṇa. And you used the example of the milk and the curd.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: And one man in the audience, he asked you, "Who is the milk and who is the curd?" And you said that "Kṛṣṇa is the milk, and Śiva is the curd." And he did not like that.
Prabhupāda: There is milk and the curd. So one must become milk, one must become curd. So if Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, then He must be the milk. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).
- īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
- anādir ādir govindaḥ
- sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
- (Bs. 5.1)
So He is the cause of all causes. So if milk is the cause of curd, then Kṛṣṇa is the milk. Come on. (some children enter room) Cause of all causes. Come forward.
Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: That you can see practically. They are not drunkards, they are not meat-eaters. From physiological point of view, they are very clean. They will never be attacked with so many diseases. Then they do not eat meat, means that is the most sinful, to kill others for the satisfaction of the tongue. God has given to the human society so many things to eat: nice fruits, nice flowers, nice grains, first-class milk. And from milk, you can prepare hundreds of nutritious foods. But they do not know the art. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse and eating meat. No discrimination. That means they are not even civilized. When man is not civilized, he kills one animal and eats because he does not know how to grow food. Just like we have got one farm land, in New Vrindaban. So we are preparing so first-class preparation from milk, the neighbours they come, they are astonished that from milk such nice preparation can be done, hundreds. So that means they are not even civilized, how to prepare nutritious food from milk. Milk-accepting that cow flesh and blood is very nutritious, that we also admit—but a civilized man utilizes the blood and meat in a different way. The milk is nothing but blood. But it is transformed into milk. And again, from milk you make so many things. You make yogurt, you make curd, you make ghee, so many things. And combination of these milk products with grains, with fruits and vegetables, you make similar hundreds of preparation. So this is civilized life, not that directly kill one animal and eat. That is uncivilized life. You take the-accepting that cow's flesh and blood is very nutritious—you take it in a civilized way. Why you should kill? It is innocent animal. Is simply eating grass given by God and supplying milk. And from milk you can live. And the gratefulness is that cut his throat? Is that civilization? What do you say?
Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā, last instruction is sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. (BG 18.66) "You give up all kinds of occupation and just surrender unto Me." If one can take it very seriously, understand, then he can enter into the study of Bhāgavatam. The Bhāgavatam begins from the point where Kṛṣṇa left Bhagavad-gītā. So he advised that "You surrender to Me," and Bhāgavata begins, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1), "I am worshiping the Supreme Truth." And next verse is dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." So this is rather revolting. Kṛṣṇa says sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), "Give up all kinds of religious system, just surrender to Me." And from that point Bhāgavata begins, "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." It is meant for the paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ. Those who are envious, for them is not Bhāgavata. So any materialistic person, he is envious. It is not meant for the materialistic person. Those who are spiritually advanced, one who has understood that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, my direct connection is with God, therefore my only business is to serve God." One who has come to this conclusion, he is called paramahaṁsa. Haṁsa means swan. A swan, it has got a quality that if you give the swan to drink milk mixed with water, she will drink the milk and reject the water. She has got the capacity. So paramahaṁsa means one who has taken the essence of the existence, Absolute Truth, he is called paramahaṁsa.
Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prof. Hopkins: Rāma is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Another form of Kṛṣṇa. Rāmādi mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39).
Prof. Hopkins: What about those who would worship Śiva?
Prabhupāda: Śiva is just like milk and yogurt. The yogurt is milk but it is not milk.
Prof. Hopkins: In another form then. So, ah...
Prabhupāda: You will not derive the benefit of milk from yogurt.
Prof. Hopkins: But do you get benefits?
Prabhupāda: Benefit there must.
Prof. Hopkins: Benefits there are but not the same.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Śiva means you get material opulence but not salvation.
Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: Just like there is butter in the milk but the milk is not butter. You churn it and then the butter will be there. Similarly, in every religious system... Every milk there is butter, but churning the milk and giving direct delivery of butter, that is the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata.
Prof. Hopkins: And it's more... It's more clear there, you would say, than it is in any other tradition.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now God... Ask any religious system "What is God?" he cannot... What is God? They cannot explain. And we are saying, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." So which is better? If you search after gold and you do not know what is gold... Eh? And if you... If some authorized friend gives, "Here is gold. You take it." That is easier.
Prof. Hopkins: So the strength and the value is in knowing...
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: The example is also very simple. Just like a child is crying and somebody is offering some milk, somebody is offering something but he is still crying. Could not find any cause. Then when the child goes to the mother's lap, immediately (claps)-stops. He understands immediately, "Now I am on the lap of my mother, then everything is all right." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Everyone is hankering after making some profit, this way, that way, this way, that way. But when one becomes, gets that supreme thing then he thinks, "Oh, I don't want anything." That is happiness. Unhappiness due to want. So the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they are all in want. They want something. Bhaktas are also sometimes in want. They want Kṛṣṇa. And in absence of Kṛṣṇa they are very unhappy, but that unhappiness is greater than happiness.
Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...the ocean of milk, ocean of milk. Ocean of liquor, ocean of oil, ocean of yogurt. (break)
Nalinī-kaṇṭha: ...in the ocean of nectar. The devotees are living in the ocean also. Nectar.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. The ordinary ocean does not increase, but this ocean increases. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Vardhanam means increasing. (dog barks) So they keep also dog? I was thinking there was no dog.
Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:
Mr. Surface: Were some of the animals destined to survive through the destruction of other animals?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are also destroying so many cows daily, although you are human being. Do you consider that "Why this cow should be slaughtered?" They are also living beings. So what about the animals? If man can slaughter so many animals daily, then if a tiger kills another one animal, what is the wrong there? That is the distinction between man and animal. Everyone has to eat somebody, and nature's law is one living being is eating another living being. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. So the snake is eating the frog, the frog is eating another small animal or some flies, and the snake is eaten by the mongoose, and the mongoose eaten by somebody else, by cat or by dog. So this is the law of nature. Therefore the human being is suggested that "You should take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Eating is required, but you don't eat like the lower animals. You take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "Anyone who is offering Me with devotion and love leaves, vegetables, fruits, flowers, milk, that I take." So we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. So that is our philosophy—we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Although there is also... Maybe not killing. Because if I take this flower from the tree, the tree is not killed. If I take grains from the paddy... What is called?
Bhojadeva: Plant?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it dies before. All these food grain plants, when the food grains are ripened, they dry. So it is not required to kill the plant. When it is already dead, you can take the food grains. When you take milk, the cow is not killed. The milk is nothing but transformation of the blood. So we are taking milk means blood. The blood is in a red color, and milk is in white color, but it is blood. Unless it is blood, how so much liquid comes from the body? So we take the same blood in a very intelligible way so that cow may live, he can continue to give me more and more, and I take more benefit from the wonderful food, milk. This is intelligence. And because cow blood is very beneficial for health, if I kill the cow, that is not very good intelligence. In our New Vrindaban the cows are giving more milk than others because they know we shall not kill them. They are happy.
Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:
Satsvarūpa: "... all the water that people needed, and the earth produced all the necessities of man in profusion. Due to its fatty milk bags and cheerful attitude, the cow used to moisten the grazing ground with milk."
Prabhupāda: You can open this, these windows. There is no window? Just hear this.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Close?
Prabhupāda: No, open this glass window so ventilation may come. Ah. So? Yes, so read the translation.
Satsvarūpa: "During the reign of Mahārāja Yudhisthira, the clouds showered all the water that people needed, and the earth produced all the necessities of man in profusion. Due to its fatty milk bag and cheerful attitude, the cow used to moisten the grazing ground with milk."
Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:
Prabhupāda: That's all. Because the cows were very cheerful, the milk was dropping from the milk bag so that the grazing ground became muddy. It was muddy not with water but with milk. So how much milk was being delivered by the cows. Because, the reason is... Why? They remained cheerful. What is that? Second line?
Satsvarūpa: "Due to its fatty milk bag and cheerful attitude,..."
Prabhupāda: "Cheerful attitude." If cows know. They have got intelligence that "We will be killed." Therefore they are not supplying sufficient milk. They cannot, just like if your mind is full of anxiety, you cannot work fully. So because they are denied this cheerfulness, you are getting less milk. If you keep them cheerful, they will give more milk. This is nature's economic development. Artificially you cannot increase the production of milk. But according to the instruction of scripture, if you keep them cheerful without any fear, they will deliver double milk.
Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:
Prabhupāda: The small children, they are taking care very nicely of the cows. After all, it is animal. The small child has got a stick, and he has been trained up how to allow them to graze. They have done. So according to Bhagavad-gītā... But that is very nice, that economic development means you produce more food grains and more milk. Then it will solve all posit... There will be no scarcity of food or happiness. Our, these Kṛṣṇa society young boys and girls, they have prepared so many nice things from milk. It is nutritious, very palatable, every..., everything. And we take food grains, fruits, milk preparation, that's all. That is very easily available. You can get enough fruits if you cultivate trees and plants. That is recommended in Bhagavad-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).
Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:
Nara-nārāyaṇa: There is so much mismanagement in different parts of the world that there are so many revolutions now in all parts of the world including India, Africa and even the United States. There are so many problems based on the fact that their food grains and milk supply are not being supplied nicely or distributed nicely. Now, supposing that there is a demand that there should be good management for it, how these things should be distributed properly, by what system, so that people can get these things in a way that they can become God conscious and at the same time have their...?
Prabhupāda: God consciousness does not depend on distribution of food. It requires cultural education. It does not mean that one who has got enough food, he is God conscious. The food distribution is not one of the conditions for becoming God conscious. That is wrong project. "If people are given sufficient food, they will become God conscious"—that is not the fact. But people advance this theory, that "We are now economically distressed. We cannot turn our attention to God consciousness." That is a wrong plea. God consciousness does not depend on any material condition.
Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:
Prabhupāda: Nature's arrangement... In this material world you cannot eat without working. Even if you are lion-lion is considered to be the most powerful animal—he has to capture one animal. He cannot think that "Let me sleep, and the animal will come automatically in my mouth." It is not possible. You have to work; this is the material world. So that work is simple work. If you have got land... Everyone has got land. You just work little, and it will produce your food grains. And the food grains will give food to the animal and man. The animal, cow, he will eat the grass, and you will take the grains. Why should you kill the animal? You haven't got to arrange for his food. You produce paddy. The plant, when it is dried, it is good for animals, and you take the grains. Why should you kill him? And he will deliver you. If you protect his life, he will give you nice milk. So you keep animal, cows, and grow food grain; then your food problem is solved. So if your food problem is solved and your cloth problems is solved, then where is your economic necessity? Then you save time and cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So real business will be how to cultivate, how to become advanced in God consciousness. That the animal cannot do. You are claiming more intelligence than the animals, so use your intelligence in this way. Don't spoil day and night for your economic development. So-called economic development means as soon as you become stout and strong, then sense gratification. Then you cultivate the culture of nudism.
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: If there is nothing available, what can be done? But when you have got such orange, such nice fruits, and rice and dahl and milk, why should you eat fish? After all, you have to eat something. If such nice foods are not available, you can eat fish. But when very nice foods are available, why should you? In other place Christ said that "These vegetables should be your meat," like that?
Satsvarūpa: In Genesis, the very beginning of the Old Testament. "The plants shall be your meat."
Prabhupāda: One must eat something. The nature's law is that sahastānā... Sahastānām ahastāni. And catuṣ-padam. That is the arrangement by nature's way, that animals, they have no hands. So the primitive life, so they become food for the primitive natives or uncivilized man. They kill some animals and eat. And why civilized man do so? He can produce his food. God has given him land. He has intelligence. Just like our temple commander was telling us. He has got immense opportunity... Just explain to them about you are producing with the farm.
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: This is our product, to produce for the animal, (indistinct). So the animal eats it and he gives you milk. He's not eating (indistinct). He gives you the nicest food, full of vitamins. And you can prepare from milk hundreds and thousands of so many palatable things. That is civilization. And this is not civilization: "Because cow is so potential, so let me eat the cow." "Guru is so sattvic, spiritual; let me eat guru. Then I will be..." (laughter) This is philosophy. Cow is so full of vitamin, valuable. But civilization is that "Why should you eat the animal? Take the milk." What is this milk? Milk is nothing but the blood. So civilization means let the cow live, and you take the milk, which is nothing but blood. When the mother feeds the child with milk, wherefrom the milk comes? Milk comes from the blood of the mother. Therefore the mother is supplied nutritious food so that she can produce milk for the child. Similarly, cow is mother. What is this philosophy, "Kill the mothers and eat?" "Kill the child and eat?" What is this nonsense? Such crude things are going on in the name of civilization. You are manufacturing billion motor cars, and you cannot manufacture your food? God has given you so much land. This is not civilization. Civilization is how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is civilization.
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: So you have got up-to-date machines... For feeding these animals. Eh? They are made for feeding the animals? Eh? Enough food for them and take milk. Why they should be killed? There is no problem. So teach those yogis about the real idea, like that.
Satsvarūpa: Is it all right to use modern machines on our farms?
Prabhupāda: As far as possible don't use machine. Let people be engaged.
Satsvarūpa: Animals?
Prabhupāda: Animal. Yes.
Walk Around Farm -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: Then it will be soil? It will be fertilizer soil? Or no. When it is decomposed? (break) Drinking water?
Nityānanda: Milk.
Prabhupāda: Milk. (laughter) That is meant for calves? Those milk?
Nityānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Nityānanda: The barn.
Prabhupāda: No, this part.
Walk Around Farm -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Nityānanda: There are some beehives down here behind this building. I have twelve, and every year we can get hundreds of pounds of honey. Honey is very nice because it does not spoil, just like ghee. It can keep for many, many months, or a long time. We can go up here to see the cows if you like. Right now they are milking them.
Prabhupāda: So if we go, it will be disturbed?
Nityānanda: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: This is one sugarcane each? No. Two, three?
Nityānanda: Yes, at least three. People here in the country, they have lots of land, and they can grow the sugarcane very easily, but they will rather go to the store to buy the sugar.
Prabhupāda: Because they want to live in the city. That is the... Here if they grow, then they will be engaged here. They cannot go to the city.
Walk Around Farm -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Nityānanda: Inside the barn they are milking two at a time. And upstairs we keep all the hay.
Brahmānanda: You keep figures on how much each milk per cow every day?
Nityānanda: You hear it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then how the milk will be utilized?
Nityānanda: We make sweet rice and burfi, we take the cream to make butter and ghee, and all extra milk is made into curd. So it is all used. Thirty gallons a day.
Prabhupāda: One gallon means 6 pounds?
Nityānanda: Eight and a half.
Prabhupāda: Eight and a half pounds. In Vrindaban they get 1,000 pounds daily, New Vrindaban. What is that cottage?
Walk Around Farm -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: Racing is also gambling.
Brahmānanda: How much did you pay for it?
Nityānanda: The farm? 170,000. This field here is millet. It's a grass for the cows to eat. They give lots of milk because they eat this grass. Very nutritious.
Prabhupāda: You are not producing for man?
Nityānanda: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Any grains for man?
Nityānanda: No, we're not growing any grains for man right now. We have fruit trees in the yard. Pears, peaches, plums, figs.
Walk Around Farm -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: They will grow, and they will eat. Rather, they will help you for your eating. The father also eats, but he maintains the family. Therefore the bull is considered as father and the cow as mother. Mother gives milk, and the bull grows food grains for man. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu first challenged that Kazi that "What is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?" Both the bulls and the cows are important because the bull will produce food grain and the cow will give supply milk. They should be utilized properly. That is human intelligence. This is filling up with paddy or...? No?
Nityānanda: With food for the cows. This one has forage or fodder, and that one has grain.
Prabhupāda: So everything is for the animals. Nothing for the man?
Nityānanda: The cows give us milk.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Upendra: At the moment of pregnancy? From the moment of pregnancy one and a half years?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pregnancy is understood at three months. From that month till further, sixteen months at least, she should not come to be near husband. That is eka-kadi (?). The child does not live. And they are not inclined to come unless a man induces. So the man, if he has got more than one wife, so man will not disturb her. And she will take rest for the next eighteen months. So after ten months she will give birth to the child, and for six months continually she will take care of the child. Feeding the child with breast milk, the child will be healthy. If the child can take mother's milk for six months at least continually, he'll become healthy for life.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Upendra: One would think because there's land and room for vegetables and there are so many cows that there would be a plentiful supply of milk, but I understand that they use powdered milk. The devotees use powdered milk there.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Upendra: Because they make all the milk into ghee and distribute it. And vegetables... I heard that at the temple that they use powdered milk. In Philadelphia I questioned the... That carpenter who made your table? He (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Why powdered milk if there is sufficient milk?
Upendra: I don't know. I can't say firsthand, but from the man who lived there, one of the householders who lived there, he said powdered milk...
Prabhupāda: I don't think so.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: No. This is not good. Ghee should be prepared where there is no more use. The Indian village, simply by keeping cows, they... Just like Nanda Mahārāja was keeping cows. Similarly there are many villages. So the system is: they have got a big pan, and whatever milk is collected, put into that pan. It is being warmed. So they drink, the whole family members. They drink milk whenever they like. So whatever milk remains at night, they have to convert it into yogurt. The next day they use milk and yogurt also, as he likes. Then, after converting the milk into yogurt, still, it remains. It is stocked. So when there is sufficient old yogurt, they churn it and then butter comes out. So they take the butter, and the water separated from the butter, that is called whey? Whey, yes. So they... Instead of dahl, they use this whey, for capati. It will be very healthy and tasty. And then the butter they turn into ghee.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Satsvarūpa: Only after the whole milk is consumed, then the other...
Prabhupāda: Milk you are collecting. So put in the pan. I have already explained. From milk stage to yogurt, yogurt to old yogurt, from old yogurt to butter, and then water, that whey. Then butter convert into ghee and whey, you can use, instead of drinking water, drink whey. Not a single drop of milk will be wasted, if you know how to do it. And you can take as much milk as possible, because ultimately it is going to be ghee. So if you start in the cities, nice restaurant, so ghee can be sold there. They'll pay for that. And they can prepare nice preparations, kachoris, samosa, sweetballs. Or milk, if you don't convert into yogurt, then naturally it will become... What is called?
Brahmānanda: Curd.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: Curd. So curd you can send to the city. They will convert into sandeśa, rasagullā and other preparations, and ghee. That is being done. In India the villagers, they do that. They are, keep cows. Convert them into curd or ghee, and ghee and curd sent to the city, they have got regular price for that. There is no question of waste of milk at any stage. One must know how to do it. So you can keep as many cows as possible and collect as much milk from them. You can utilize. And if some of the villagers trained up, they can open nice restaurant in the city. Utilize the ghee, curd, for making nice confectionary. People will purchase like anything. Just like in our Rathayātrā festival, whatever sweets they prepared, all sold at good profit. Your countrymen, they did not see such nice things. And when they taste it—"Very nice."
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Brahmānanda: The grains or the milk or whatever.
Prabhupāda: Whatever, yes. "Give me twenty-five percent. You can utilize the land." So that is resource of the land.
Devotee (1): How does the kṣatriya build a palace for himself or something like that?
Prabhupāda: That will be done. To keep a prestigious position, they'll have building, servant, soldiers. Otherwise how they will fear? How they'll have respect?
Devotee (1): So the kṣatriya is the predominator of the land.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṣatriya is the owner of the land.
Devotee (1): And he can take the stones and men and build a big, nice...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: They, śūdras are there. Give him his eating, and some hand, pocket expense, hand expense, regular. If one can eat, then he has no demand. So the laborer has to be given to eat sumptuously. "Eat and work, take some pocket..." They will be (indistinct). Not that you call professional laborer and you have to pay twenty-five dollars per hour. That is nuisance. They'll drink. That's all. And not that everyone should have nice house. Why? What is the use? Go in the village, live simple, produce food. That's all. Eat. Why this electricity and three-hundred story building and...? And then you don't produce anything, eat fish. "And let me eat..." Artificial. It is very easy to take the animals in the city and slaughter. A little vegetable and milk, they are satisfied.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: No, no. (Why not??) There is no rule. As according to the work, if people are interested to work as vaiśya, let them become vaiśya. If he is intelligent, if he wants to work as brāhmaṇa, let him work as brāhmaṇa. Let him work as kṣatriya. And the fourth-class, let him work as śūdra. So the management should see that nobody is unemployed or not engaged, men, women. Woman can take care of the milk products or spining (spinning). And śūdras can be engaged for working as weaver, as a blacksmith, a goldsmith. There are so many things.
Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:
Mādhavānanda: Then the responsibility for some is to Kṛṣṇa; the responsibility of some is to the demigods?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigods, you have got responsibility. Deva, ṛṣi, bhūta, living entities. Just like you are taking milk from the cows. You have the responsibility to protect it, but you are killing. So you must suffer.
Bhagavān: So the present system is simply expert at producing completely irresponsible people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are talking of responsibility. But one who is devotee... Eh?
Bhagavān: They say we are irresponsible.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not irresponsible. We have finished all responsibility. We are not irresponsible. But we are in such a position that we have passed all these responsibilities.
Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:
Brahmānanda: No, he says that if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then they will stop going to the cinema.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the test. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. This is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra (SB 11.2.42). Advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he's no more interested with anything material. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is a Bengali proverb, ami dugdha khaya eta mako khaya: "The children, they take milk, and adults, they smoke." So one is speaking that "I take milk and smoke also."
Brahmānanda: He thinks he's all right. "I'm okay."
Prabhupāda: Yes. "I go to temple and I do all nonsense also." Hare Kṛṣṇa. We shall go directly temple?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- August 28, 1975, Vrndavana:
Brahmānanda: ...auspicious to see a calf drinking milk?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But there is no milk. (laughter) (break) Somebody should give me daily one fresh nim stem. Ask somebody. (break) Everything you have to do?
Dhanañjaya: I can learn from Brahmānanda Mahārāja. I can learn from Brahmānanda how to break it and make it ready.
Brahmānanda: No, no. Prabhupāda will arrange that. You just bring the branch.
Dhanañjaya: All right.
Prabhupāda: There are so many nim trees.
Morning Walk -- August 29, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: You give me simply hot milk with miṣṭi. (break) They're going to foreign country, but once they go they become disappointed and not second time.
Brahmānanda: Someone has gone?
Prabhupāda: So many.
Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: (break) ...create another danger. Just like airplane. It is comfortable. You can quickly go from one place to another. But as soon as on the plane, immediately your life is at risk. There is no certainty. So this is the way of material world. You create some comfort and you create some greater danger also. Side by side. It cannot be unhampered comfort. That is not possible. You create a motorcar—the same thing—you drive very speedy and you meet accident. Railway, the accident. There was no need. You produce your food locally and produce your milk. Then eat, drink, and live comfortably. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Make your life successful. Yad uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). And if you have got education, then describe the glories of the Lord by your scientific and educational qualification. (break) The rain is coming. We can go this way. Yad uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). (break)
Brahmānanda: In the Bible there are so many things that were... about the world that were mistakes, and then, by their scientific knowledge, they found the real fact. Like they say the earth was flat...
Prabhupāda: Bible may be wrong, but we are talking generally. So if you are scientist, you can say the right thing. But why should you deny God?
Brahmānanda: Well, if the book of God has made mistake, then we don't have any faith...
Prabhupāda: Book of God... Then throw it. Kick it out. But I say that you are scientist. How you can deny God? That is our propaganda. The so-called book of God, you throw away. But you are scientist. How can you deny the existence of God? Why you are misleading? Bible misleading, that's all right. Why you are misleading? That is our point.
Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Brahmānanda: But we have to work very hard; otherwise we won't get money for buying food.
Prabhupāda: No. You work a very slight three months in a year and get all food. Food is there; milk is there; land is there. You have to work.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it possible to take the mass of crowlike people and give them the higher taste?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it possible to take a mass of crowlike people and elevate them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Human beings, after all, they are. They can be educated. That is the opportunity of human life, that he can be educated. The cats and dogs cannot.
Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Accha bole tomare lagdha, suta jagat murare.(?) You give me that chewra and milk and banana, nothing else. (break) ...and so much useless labor for growing tea, that will be stopped. You can grow food. (break) You drink tea, you'll require sugar. Then unnecessarily producing so much sugarcane. And the by-product of sugarcane, molasses, you'll have to utilize. Then produce wine, liquor. One after another.
Indian man (3): But our country depends upon sugar.
Prabhupāda: No, that is mistake. Your country, you can produce your own food. That's all. Why you should depend? You produce food grains. You produce milk. Then your all necessities is supplied. Why should you produce unnecessarily?
Brahmānanda: Here they use powdered milk because they have no cows.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And here even by this sugarcane, what is called? Upper part? This part?
Indian man (1): We call it ag.(?)
Prabhupāda: Ag, yes. You can maintain thousand of cows.
Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) (Devotees have been teasing Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa in background regarding his suggestion) He said, "Don't bring milk when water is required." I was just asking, you know.
Harikeśa: Don't bring milk when water is required. You have given the example.
Prabhupāda: Don't bring milk?
Devotees: When water is required.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Cyavana: But he was thinking that it would be very nice to sit there with Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, no. No, I wasn't. I was thinking of Prabhupāda's satisfaction. You're thinking what I'm thinking...
Prabhupāda: You are right. He was right. That is service. Before wanting, that is... That is all right. "Now let the master refuse it." But service is: before he asks, the thing should be offered. That is service. After asking, offering something, that is second-class service. First-class service, before he wants, "Here is the thing, ready." That is first-class service. Now it is his liking. He may not like that. He may ask something else. But the service must be offered. And your example, milk and water, is not applicable here. I did not ask him either milk or water. (laughter) So your example is futile.
Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śiva is next to God. Just like yogurt, dahi. You know dahi? What is this dahi? Milk. But it is not milk. Dahi is not anything but milk, but it is not milk. Similarly, Lord Śiva is nothing but Viṣṇu, but it is not Viṣṇu. Is it clear now? You can say, "Well, dahi is nothing but milk." Yes. But it is not milk. If instead of milk you take dahi, the result will be different. And if you take milk instead of dahi, that is..., that will be different, although the milk and dahi is the same thing, same ingredients. So you have to understand in that way. Lord Śiva is nondifferent from the Supreme Lord. Everyone is nondifferent from Supreme Lord, but he's still different. This is the perfect philosophy, acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different.
Indian man (7): Swamijī, in all the temples in Mauritius, the supreme deity...
Prabhupāda: Supreme Deity is Viṣṇu.
Indian man (7): But we consider Lord Śiva to be the supreme deity because we...
Prabhupāda: But that is your lack of knowledge. I have already explained that, that yogurt is not different from milk. It is milk but still, it is not milk. You have to understand like that. Lord Śiva is not different from Viṣṇu, but he's still not Viṣṇu.
Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Just we are doing so many places. So you produce your own food grains, not for making money but just for feeding yourself and the animals, cows. Keep cows, as many cows as possible, and produce, till the ground, field, and make water supply arrangement. If the investment is required, we shall do that. You have no worry about investment. We shall bring money from anywhere. But the work must be done very nicely. There must be good arrangement for water supply and for plowing and keeping the cows in order. Then you get sufficient milk, sufficient food grains and produce your own cloth. The girls and ladies, they can spine (spin) thread, and from the thread you make cloth, handlooms. So your first necessities of life, eating, and make little cottage, sleeping... And if you want sex, get yourself married, live peacefully. And when you are there you can defend yourself. So the first necessity is how to eat and how to cover. That you have to provide. That is not difficult. You can do it. And then you become peaceful, no anxiety for your maintenance. And then cultivate this spiritual knowledge the same way. Have a temple there. Have... Go on chanting, offering prasādam. You have got your food grains. Don't be dependent on anyone else. Become self-independent. And don't be after money. Simply produce your bare necessities of life. Keep yourself fit, strong. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, read book. Then you'll grow strong. Is there any difficulty?
Guest (1): No, Swamijī.
Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: One must be pure. Then he will be able to attract. So if they see practically that "These people are very happy; they have no anxiety," then they will be attracted. Is it not? What is the difficulty? But if you want brothel and night dancing and wine and meat-eating, then it is spoiled. It becomes impure. To become pure is not at all difficult. Rather, to become impure, it is difficult. But people, with all difficulties, they are becoming impure. Otherwise the idea which I am giving, you can start anywhere, anywhere, any part of the world. It doesn't matter. Locally you produce your own food. You get your own cloth. Have sufficient milk, vegetables. Then what you want more? And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is Vedic civilization: plain living, high thinking. And poor thinking, poor in thought, poor in behavior, and living with motorcar and this, that, nonsense. It is all nonsense civilization. A first-class Rolls Royce car, and who is sitting there? A third-class negro. This is going on. You'll find these things in Europe and America. This is going on. A first-class car and a third-class negro. That's all. Is it not?
Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is, though, that everyone has to work because they have to feed themselves and they have to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are working. We are not sitting idle. Now, for our food, if we just get some food by plowing some land for the animal, cows, and for me, and the cow is giving me milk, the tree are giving me fruit, why shall I work so hard? The business of dogs and hogs, whole day and night simply working for getting food and sense gratification? That is not civilization. Live peacefully, get your nice food, and save time to advance in spiritual life. This is civilization. And simply for little comfort for a few years I have wasted my time in so many humbug comforts. Actually that is... What is this comfort of the skyscraper building? I think it is a mechanical prison.
Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: After all, vegetable will be eaten by somebody. So let government distribute there. Vegetable, grains, fruits, milk, ghee, yogurt, natural produce—they will be used by somebody. The government may store and distribute, those who are in need. That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maybe somebody is only producing gold or gold plates, or somebody is producing something that isn't food. So he would give that to the government.
Prabhupāda: Well, gold plates, that is not a necessary thing. He can eat on plantain leaf, natural production. That is luxury. So when people live simple life, the luxuries will no more be required.
Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: What is the problem? But still, these rascals will say that he is right. You see? He cannot even analyze properly, and still he is obstinate; he is right. This rascaldom is going on. And if we say "rascal," they are angry. Murkhayopadeṣo hi prakopaya na śanti...: "To a rascal, if you give the right instruction, they will be simply angry." That's all. Not pacification, they will be angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujanganam kevalaṁ visa-vardhanam: "Just like the serpent, rascal. If you give him milk, he'll drink it and increase his poison." That's it. The result will be he will increase his poison. Better to keep them starvation. Therefore everyone, as soon as one sees the serpent, immediately kills. No consideration. "Here is a serpent. Kill him." Similarly, immediately we see the scientists, kill. (laughter) That is the only proccess. So-called scientists. So do you agree, Harikeśa, for kicking on the face of these rascals or not?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Brahmānanda: Of making the men self-sufficient in cloth, foodstuffs, milk products, grains.
Cyavana: There's a map. (break)
Jñāna: ...program like the Christians.
Prabhupāda: Explain how to... Explain.
Brahmānanda: Of having a... Encouraging the people to..., first by having kīrtana and prasādam. (break)
Prabhupāda: This is the process. Some how or other, they should join, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare..." Then everything... It is not very difficult. Simply induce them to chant. That will make everything success.
Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: They are taking milk from the cow and killing. This is our proposal. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises, taror api sahiṣṇunā-tolerant, humbler than the grass. Amāninā mānadena. Don't expect any honor for your person, but to the others give honor: "Oh, you are most exalted person," although he's a rascal. What can be done? Otherwise you cannot preach. If you call a rascal a rascal, immediately your preaching will be stopped. So you have to say that "You are the greatest intelligent man, sādhu, most honored. The only request is that you forget what you have learned. That's all. And take this." In this way preaching practical. Otherwise it is not possible. Everyone is thinking he is the most exalted personality, scientist, philosopher, great man. That is material disease. Actually he is being kicked every moment by the urges of the senses, and he is thinking he is very great man. Go-dāsa. Go means senses. He is always, I mean, curbed down by the sense urges, and he is thinking, "independent." Independent means servant of the senses. This is going on. So you have to understand the real position of the world, and if you want to preach, then you have to (be) humbler than the tree, humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree and... We know everyone is rascal; still, you have to give him honor. Then it will be possible to say something. Otherwise it is very difficult. We have to deal with all rascals, fools, rogues, ruffians, all good qualificat..., like. This is... You must know these things. You are dealing with all rascals. So if we call them directly "rascal," they will be angry. Your preaching will not be successful. So follow the principles enunciated by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī and Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: If you open farm for financial help, then it will not be successful. You should take to farming for supporting yourself. That's all. Grow your own food. Grow your own cloth. There is no need of financial help from outside. You get your food grains sufficiently, rice, dahl, wheat, vegetables, milk, sugar. Bas You get everything. From these five, six items you should be economically free. That you have to do, not for trade to get money. Then it will be failure.
Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because this is necessary. You must have some shelter; you must eat; you must cover. That is necessary. So you do it. Grow food first of all to feed yourself sumptuously. You must get strength, and that is needed. But not for trade. The policy should be that you should be self-sufficient and save time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Yavad-ārtha prayojanam. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-daḥ. You shall eat whatever you require for proper upkeep of the body, not eating too much and sleeping whole day. Don't do that. Eat only what is absolutely necessary. Then you'll never be in want. People are engaged in material civilization means they are increasing the bodily demands, unnecessary. Just like this park. Why we have come to this park? We like this atmosphere. So similarly, in villages, everyone, if he has got some land, he can live simply without any gorgeous building. What is the use? Just have a cottage and have garden. You'll live very peacefully. But they're constructing big, big skyscraper building in the downtown, and they will have to come here by car for some peace of mind, and in the meantime, accident, police. This is the civilization, nonsense civilization. At weekend they will go to the village, country, and during the week-time they will work hard. This is their civilization, with the risk of life, running motor car eighty miles' speed. Every moment there is risk. What is this civilization? Most ludicrous civilization. So farming means if you live in a farm... Just like in New Vrindaban they are doing. Produce your own food, live peacefully, fresh vegetable, fresh grains, fresh milk, and prepare so many nice milk preparation, kachori, halavā with ghee. Offer to the Deity. Eat sufficiently. What is the use of going outside? Simple life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you can organize that, that will be very nice.
Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: First of all be engaged yourself. Then they will see the example and they'll join. Just like in our New Vrindaban. Other men from other farms, they are coming, and they are offered this milk preparation, burfi, sandeṣa, rasagullā, rabri, so many, halavā. They become: "Oh, so many nice things can be prepared from milk?" They do not know, uncivilized. Cut the animal and eat. A most crude civilization. When people were not civilized, they used to do that. Civilization means you know, you must know how to live very nicely. That is civilization. But they do not know even that. Simply eating meat and wine, meat and wine, that's all. And this is going on as civilization. They do not know what is the meaning of civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Real civilization means to understand God. Here is God. Who'll accept, either you say God or nature, that "You are under control. You are not free."? That, this dog's obstinacy, they will not take it. Like a dog. What is the meaning of dog obstinacy? He'll go on disturbing, "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" This is dog consciousness. How they can refuse, that "There is no authority"? They say, "No, we don't care for authority. Don't." But you are being kicked every moment: still, there is no authority? Just see obstinacy.
Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: Let him go away. Don't care for him. Let all the fools go away. There is Bengali proverb, "Instead of maintaining some bad cows, let the cowshed be vacant." We shall prefer the cowshed vacant, no cow, than keeping all bad cows who does not give any milk, create disturbance.
Devotee (8): In our temple...
Prabhupāda: We are giving chance, but we don't want bad cows. We haven't got to agree with their views. They must agree with our views, then they can live. Otherwise let them go away. This is position.
Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Everything is there. Just you take and... In Bombay, Calcutta, if you pay for, you can get tiger's blood.
Dr. Patel: That side, you can get tiger's blood and even tiger's milk. But then you can't get time. The cement a certain, takes certain time to dry, no?
Prabhupāda: Then the answer is... No, the architects have promised, within three months.
Dr. Patel: You must have some, some mantras then, architect. Have you got any mantras brought from America or...?
Devotees: Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! (break) ...is practical. (break)
Dr. Patel: ...because God does not want to come out and meet idiots. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No. They obstructed so much, so it must be wall against those persons. From the very beginning they were obstructing. So therefore we raised the wall so that they may not come.
Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That was done by Rāmakrishna also. And when he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple, that "Now I shall practice the Muslim way of religion. So I shall eat beef," so the proprietor said, "Kindly go out and practice it outside." (laughter) (break) ...exemplified like this: on the glass it appears like a sun, but it is not sun. A reflection, pratibiṁbha. (break) A man can understand that dahi is nothing but milk. (Hindi) Why you wait for the milk? (Hindi)
Indian man (4): Different effect of dahi and dudh.
Prabhupāda: Why different effect? (Hindi) ...milk.
Indian man (4): Pratices are changed after.
Prabhupāda: That one has to understand.
Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Just like the queens of Dvāraka were plundered by the Ābhīra. That's why. There is no pasturing ground. Otherwise this cow would have been taken there. He would have eaten grass. That's all. What she will eat here in the town? Even Sumati Morarji's cows, they are not healthy. (Hindi) (pause) It appears to be so because in the evening the milk, whatever you give me, that appears to be powdered milk.
Brahmānanda: It was powdered milk?
Prabhupāda: It appears. Now it is confirmed.
Yaśomatīnandana: Maybe we should have our men stand there and milk and get directly from...
Prabhupāda: Everyone will say, "We should have," but who will have? There is no men. As soon as try to find out a man, there is no man. Simply we shall suggest, "We should have." That's all. And who is the man, that is not to be found, although we have got so many men. Why this deficiency? Everyone suggests that "There should have been a man," but who is that man? No man. As soon as try to find out who is that man, no man. Find out a man immediately. Not "should have." Immediately you must have.
Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is explained that kṣīraṁ yathā dadhi-vikāra. Kṣīram, milk, becomes dadhi-vikāra.
Dr. Patel: Dahi.
Prabhupāda: Dahi. So dahi is nothing but milk, but you cannot call it milk.
Dr. Patel: But he was a non-mudri-patha(?) brāhmaṇa and I think his father was not a priest but regular man.
Prabhupāda: Your daughter?
Indian man (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So, where is your son? Huh? (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: That was the case with the, this Nanesvara, Santak Nanesvara(?), that his father once became a sannyāsī, and then he came back and had a gṛhastha-āśrama with his wife before he was ordered by his guru...
Prabhupāda: That is the case with Vallabhācārya also. He became sannyāsa, then again back, guru.
Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:
Prabhupāda: Yes, very much deteriorating. It means finished. The kalā is finished now. You see? Now, "Natural History." So many dead stone they have brought, and so costly building, and showing "natural history." This is going on, simply cheating and bluffing at the cost of poor man's blood. Against this principle the communist movement is good. There are so many buildings, but there is not a single building where spiritual culture is discussed, although it is the real basis of life. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and not getting sufficient milk, their growth is checked. This is kalākendra.
Harikeśa: They have powdered milk.
Prabhupāda: That is simply cheating, powdered milk. It is white water, that's all. Powdered milk means white water. It has no value.
Haṁsadūta: In Moscow too, Anand Shanti, he was telling. When we were there we wanted to buy milk, and they had milk in bottles, but he told me, he said, "This is not milk." He said "First they dehydrate it, make it to powder. Then they again add water and put it in the bottle, because in this way they can keep it a long time." So we couldn't find any real milk even in Moscow, the biggest city in the country.
Prabhupāda: I think Moscow they have milk and butter.
Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:
Prabhupāda: Hm. Adulterate. I thought at least they have got little milk and butter, but that is also finished. (break)
Tejās: ...the milkman tries to bring the cow to the āśrama, they arrest the milkman. They take his cow away from him. They don't even allow that they can bring the cow to the people any more. They seized. He lost one cow. He has to sneak the cow down the back alley so that they can bring some cow fodder in.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...zation will collapse very soon, all over the world. It will collapse. Either you may bring this ism or that ism, this civilization will collapse. People will become mad, being harassed in so many ways. When one is harassed in so many problems, he commits suicide. So that position is coming.
Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:
Prabhupāda: No, he hasn't got to make factory. He has got also food but he... If he does, he is claiming to be more civilized. He has complicated his activities by opening factories. That's all. He has got also food. Let everyone remain in nature's... You take fruit from the trees and drink milk, you are also sufficient. You don't require to cook even. There are fruits. Formerly all the sages they were taking fruits from the trees, and milk from the cows. That's all. They did not even produce food. Like agriculture. No. Whatever nature is supplying, that's all. But you are killing the cows, eating the meat, and producing no food and and making things, complicated. This is your civilization.
Morning Walk -- December 20, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: But don't take that because akhilātmā bhūto, Nārāyaṇa is in the dog, therefore I have to worship dog. This is going on. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. And why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa? What is the.... This foolishness is going on. And Nārāyaṇa is everywhere. If you have such a, I mean to say, advanced vision, that Nārāyaṇa is everywhere—that is also mentioned; therefore you should keep respect—then why do you make discrimination, that only daridra-nārāyaṇa? Why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa?
Indian man: Last time you gave the example of the curd and the milk. That was very good example.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why the..., not dhanī-nārāyaṇa? Or the dog Nārāyaṇa or the goat Nārāyaṇa? Goat Nārāyaṇa cut his throat; fish Nārāyaṇa cut his throat...
Dr. Patel: Ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, sir.
Prabhupāda: These rascals are going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "I am not there, nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ," to teach these rascals.
| Page Title: | Milk (Conversations 1974 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=159, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 159 |