Suppose if I could manufacture rasagullās by some mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, oh, thousands of people will come immediately. You see? People want to see me, and those persons who want to have a cheap following, they want to show such jugglery. But a devotee sees... (break) ...is not of that mentality. They will simply, humble servant. They are satisfied by serving the Lord. That is devotee's position. So your statement, that "Why one should bother with these things?" That's a very nice proposal. Why? There is no necessity. Suppose if I can manufacture some rasagullā, what is the worth of this rasagullā? Oh, we can, if we spend ten cents, we can make it. So why shall I waste my energy for manufacturing rasagullā in the yoga system? Actually, therefore, Kṛṣṇa says that the perfection of, real perfection of yoga, the first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is first-class. He is recommended.
Mentality (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Journalist: One hundred.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In different branches. I have got about thirteen branches. Some of the disciples are working in London. Yes, they are doing very nice. They are all married couples. I got them married. Yes. I got them married. They're young boys, all within thirty. My oldest disciple he is 28. Otherwise 25, 24. At most 30. And similarly, girls, you have seen this girl. You see. So I get them, make them happy in married life. Their mentality is... They are not after so-called puffed-up life. They can live very simply with the least demand of bodily necessities, but thinking very high of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I am very hopeful that even I die... Because I am old man, 73 years old. I may die at any moment. But I am now assured my movement will go on. These boys will carry it. That, my mission, is in that way successful. I came here with this idea, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be started from America. Because anything accepted by America, people follow because America is considered to be the... Actually America is not a poverty-stricken country. So they can very easily understand, they can take it. And there are many confused youths. So with all these considerations, I came here, and I think I'm successful, yes.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is accepted that everyone goes. But if somehow you are stubborn to remain here, how one can help? (laughter) Just like the university is open for everyone. But somebody is stubborn to go to the prison department. So how the government can help? Government does not say that "Some selected people come to the university, and others go to the prison department." It is open for everyone, but it is the particular mentality—one is going to the university; one is going to the prison house. That is your individual independence. That is your choice. Just like so many students, they have come here. Others have not come here. So everyone has got little independence. So everyone can go to the spiritual world if he likes. But if he does not like, he will remain here. That is his choice.
Prabhupāda: He wants to utilize our men.
Haṁsadūta: Yes. Don't deal with him, right? That's what I thought.
Prabhupāda: He wants a cheap, cheap price. (Break) I don't believe all these things they have... They have come here to beg, to make money. You see? Their mentality cannot be good.
Haṁsadūta: I have a letter for you from Gopāla Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is a good boy.
Haṁsadūta: Oh, he's very nice. Oh, he's getting so nice. He wants to come.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because he is serving.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is impossible. Our idea is that best ideas from the original idea. Just like in the Bhāgavata there is a description of communistic idea, and it is being described to Mahārāja Yudhisthira. So if there is something good, good experience, why it should not be adopted? That is our point of view. And besides that, in the modern civilization they are missing one point: the aim of human life, scientifically. The aim of human life is self-realization, ātmā-tattvam. It is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsa ātmā-tattvam. Unless the human society comes to the point of self-realization, whatever they are doing, they are being defeated, parābhava. I think you know this word, parābhava. Parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. So actually it is happening so. The modern society, human society, there is advancement, economic advancement, so many things, advancement. Still, in the matter of keeping peace and tranquility there is fight, individually, socially, politically, nationally. So if we think very cool-headed, then in spite of so much improvement in so many branches of knowledge, we are keeping the same mentality of quarreling. That is also visible in lower animal society. So our conclusion, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that this body, human body, it is not meant for working very hard for sense gratification.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Because the United States, they are our best customer. A businessman goes to a place... Just like you have come here. Why you have come here? Wherever there is best possibility of doing your business, there you must go. I went to United States because I know these people are not poverty-stricken. And our Indian people, they are now, they have been trained to think like that—they are poverty-stricken. Actually, they are not poverty-stricken, but the leaders have educated them that, "You are all poverty-stricken." This is India's position. So far I knew that it would not be successful in India. The government will not help. The public is educated in a different way. They are after technology. So and "familiarity breeds contempt." They say, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? It is known to us since a long time. What effect it will have?" Many Indian students in foreign countries, they say, "Swamiji, what will this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement benefit us? We want technology." So that is the mentality of the Indians at the present moment. They have lost everything and therefore they are beggars. They have lost their own culture and therefore they are beggars. So I thought it wise that I shall go to a country where there is no poverty. They will learn.
Guest (1): In the minds of some people the sudden attraction of Western youth to Eastern religions...
Prabhupāda: No. It is not Eastern. That is a wrong conception. God is for everybody. Eastern people, when I speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "What is this Kṛṣṇa? We know Kṛṣṇa. What we have to learn from Swamiji?" "Familiarity breeds contempt." But in the Western countries when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, they see the philosophy. They see the science and become attracted. We, in the very beginning, we neglect: "Oh, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Otherwise there is no question of Western or Eastern. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa is neither Western, neither Eastern. But Eastern, our, especially Indians, they have learned to reject. That is their education: immediately reject it. This is their new culture, to reject everything. At least Jawaharlal Nehru began like that, "Anything Indian is bad. Everything London-made is good." That was his philosophy. And if one European would go to see him, immediately admission. And if an Indian goes to see him, three days he has to wait. So Jawaharlal made this impression, that "Everything Indian is bad, and anything made in London..." Because he was made in London. He was educated in London. So everything nice. Although in my household life I was doing some business in connection. I had to see Jawaharlal Nehru. So when he was common man, I went to his house. I saw it is completely Europeanized, although he is in khādi. So his father, he hated Indian medicine. You see? Motilal Nehru. A doctor, his family physician, he told me. I was doing medicine business. So I introduced one preparation, pulti(?). That was in a clay pot, anti-floristan(?) So doctor said personally, "If I prescribe your pul, jagal-pulti(?), that Motilal Nehru says, 'Doctor, in case of medicine, please do not prescribe Indian.' " You see? So this is our mentality. We have got all foreign mentality, but still, we are claiming that we have become independent. Not indepen... We are culturally conquered by the materialistic advancement of foreign countries. We have lost our own culture. This is our position.
Bhakti-devī dāsī: We wouldn't know it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you'll know it, provided you are qualified; otherwise nature will arrange for it. Those who know, they know what is there, but those who do not know, then nature will arrange. You do not know means you have not prepared your life, so accidentally, at the time of death, your mentality will create another body and nature will supply you.
Bhakti-devī dāsī: I'm chanting. What does chanting do?
Prabhupāda: That you can ask these boys. They will instruct you.
Bob Cohen: Could you tell me what is the difference between, uh.... Kṛṣṇa controls everything, so how, how does Kṛṣṇa control a nondevotee?
Prabhupāda: By māyā. By having... Just like government controls everything. A criminal is controlled by the police department.
Frenchman: (indistinct) ...history of many masters and many great teachers such as Jesus Christ and many others... (indistinct) ...come to... (indistinct) ...message. (indistinct) ...today on the same level.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because from God's side there is always an attempt to make the people right. As soon as they're wrongly directed, some messenger comes like Jesus Christ or Buddha or, before Him, Lord Kṛṣṇa. So what we are preaching that is not new. It is God consciousness. And all the great messiahs they came. But the thing is that people are changing in their different education mentalities. So we have to present things in such a way that intelligent person can accept the old teachings in the western countries. Like Lord Jesus Christ... Either they're not being followed or they're not properly understood because in London I saw hundreds of churches are vacant. That means that it's so practical that people have no more interest in Christianity or the Christian people could not convince them of the spiritual necessity of life. Many churches are for sale. That's not a good sign. That means people have lost interest in spiritual life but fortunately the younger generation, they are taking to this spiritual movement.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: There's laws to those chemical reactions. They never consider who makes the laws?
Prabhupāda: Then? What is this? As soon as there is law, it must be considered that somebody made the law.
Karandhara: It's just a thief's mentality.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: If a thief comes on something valuable, he does not think who owns this. He simply thinks how he'll steal it.
Prabhupāda: That is thief's business.
Karandhara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So they are all thieves.
Karandhara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So how we, a sane man can trust a thief? A sane man cannot trust a thief. There are so many things. They could not produce even a grass, even a small plant in the biology, chemistry laboratory, and still they're claiming it is product of biology, chemistry. What is this nonsenses. What kind of scientists there are?
Locana: We couldn't even choose when we were born.
Prabhupāda: Kāma-karmabhiḥ. Avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ. They are creating a situation of suffering by unnecessary desire. That's all. So your scientific improvement means you are creating a situation of suffering. That's all. No improvement. You cannot. Kāma-karmabhiḥ, kāma-karmabhiḥ. They are working in such a way... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also says the same thing: anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. The so-called scientific improvement means he's already an ass, and he's becoming more, better ass. That's all. Nothing more. He's already an ass because he's part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and he has come to this material world to enjoy. That is ass mentality. There is no enjoyment. So he's already an ass. And this scientific improvement means he's becoming more attached to this material world to remain better ass. Avidyā... anitya saṁsāre, anitya. He cannot stay here. Suppose, working very hard like an ass, he gets a skyscraper building, throughout his whole life, laboring. But he cannot stay there. He'll be kicked out. Is it not ass? Is he not an ass? He cannot stay there. Anitya saṁsāre. Anitya. Because it is not the permanent settlement. You are trying: dum dum. (sound imitation) Very strong foundation. That's all right. But your foundation is nothing. You'll be kicked out. Therefore he's an ass. That: "I'll stay here for twenty years." Why dum dum dum, foundation stone? Where is your foundation? Therefore he's an ass.
Prabhupāda: So how such big men, minister, could accept such position of a mendicant and live...? Now, gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau... So they got a better thing. They dipped into the ocean of the gopīs' ecstasy. They were always thinking of the gopīs' activities with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So unless one gets a better thing, he cannot give up the less important thing. So when, unless one gets that better thing—better humor, better mellow—they cannot give up these material engagements. Therefore, to get that better thing, it is advised that part of your hard labor you offer to Kṛṣṇa. This is called karma-yoga. You remain in your karma, but nirbandha, nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe, be touched with Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and spend at least fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa. Then, gradually, you come to the... Just like the Gosvāmīs came. So this is the policy. Otherwise, for Kṛṣṇa conscious men there is no need. Everything Kṛṣṇa will supply. Mādhavendra Purī installed a Deity. Now, for months, years together, only festival was going on. (pause) And another good example is that if somebody is in business and if he spends for Kṛṣṇa, that is a very good example for the karmīs. Because everyone is not going to stop their karmī mentality. So this will be an example, that "You are engaged in material. Now spend like this." That is another preaching. Loka-saṅgraha. This is called loka-saṅgraha, to collect ordinary men for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like Janaka-rāja, he was a king, but great saintly person.
Prabhupāda: The politicians, they (say that) "These books are useless. Throw them in the water." They say like that publicly. They are not interested. Rather, this movement, as I have now began with my disciples, European, American boys, they're... They are not very satisfied, the present politicians. They are not very satisfied. They don't want. Everywhere this, more or less the same mentality, but it is our duty on behalf of Kṛṣṇa to push on this movement. So we are doing, and we are getting response. It is not without response. It will increase. That is also stated, that for ten thousand years Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will increase. Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Ten thousand years.
Prabhupāda: Within ten thousand years, if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then life is successful. After ten thousand years, the gloomy picture of Kali-yuga will come. Still there is time. Ten thousand years is not small period. So we have passed five thousand years. So still ten thousand. We have got to the fifteen thousand years. Kali-yuga's duration of life is four hundred thousand, four hundred and twenty-seven thousand. Char-lakh murti saja. (?) Yes.
Prabhupāda: So this thing we are teaching, how to get out of the control of the three modes of material nature, to put him into the transcendental platform. That is the success of life. And this chance is obtainable in the human form of life. If he misses this chance, again he becomes, suppose, a tree, or a cat, or a dog... There is every chance. Because it is under the control of material nature; according to my work and mentality, I'll get another body.
Lord Brockway: Yes, there are... There are many things I'd like to say, many questions...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: This is going on. If you want to speak your own word, why you take Bhagavad-gītā? How much, aḥ, devilish mentality. You want to speak your own philosophy-speak. Why you take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā? But that is going on. They take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and speak their all nonsense things. They're not representative of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's representative is he who exactly speaks what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. It is not very difficult. So everyone can become Kṛṣṇa's representative, provided he speaks exactly like Kṛṣṇa.
Reporter: Hm. No, but... Can I take you back to the point which is not clear to me? When you said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa is speaking in a context of a clear defined action for Arjuna, whereas now that clearly defined action is not available to us.
Prabhupāda: Why not available?
Reporter: 'Cause we don't know what is our action. Now, going to the...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66).
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now, dharma means occupation. Dharma is not translated as religion.
Reporter: No, no.
Prabhupāda: This is wrong translation. Dharma means occupation.
Prabhupāda: It is nice.
Haṁsadūta: As soon as there's no more slaughterhouse, then the animals are free. They can go everywhere.
Popworth: I think you are avoiding the point.
Revatīnandana: No. It's the solution. If you want to stop that treatment of animals, you stop the slaughterhouse. Otherwise, first you keep them in the field to slaughter. That's already brute mentality. That brute mentality means next I think, "I could get more flesh if I didn't let this cow move. So let me keep him in a case, cage, in the dark so they have lighter meat." This is one stage of brute mentality to another stage of brute mentality. The next stage of brute mentality... They're already killing the unborn child. Now, next, the child is born. That's the next stage of brute mentality. That is predicted in the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Now, their theory is that when the child comes out of the womb, then he gets the soul. Is it not?
Revatīnandana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Not within the womb.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: What kind of theory it is? For killing the child within the womb, they have discovered this theory.
Prabhupāda: Big eyes? Big eyes is very fearful to him?
Haṁsadūta: (German conversation)
Prabhupāda: These are different mentalities. It is not very scientific.
Haṁsadūta: Shall I explain to him about Deity worship?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: (German conversation for a some time) His question is: "Who has...?"
Guest: (German)
Haṁsadūta: Who has designated you as the spiritual master, because everyone is saying that: "I am the spiritual master," So how, how, how will one know who is the spiritual master?
Guest: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and Maharsi...
Prabhupāda: (To Śrutakīrti) Don't make this coming and going always. There is no other way for going down?
Śrutakīrti: No, we just had to find something. We... There was something in your bathroom we needed. This thing here... But we, we won't be using this at all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is, that is next question, that you have to accept next body, but what kind of body you'll have? That you can see, that there are so many varieties of life, body. You have to accept one of them. Just like when you were admitted into school for education. The idea was that you'll be educated, and according to your education, there are so many posts you'll have to occupy. Just like you are lawyer, he's medical man, somebody's engineer, somebody else, somebody... Varieties or field of activities. So according to the perfection of one's education, he has to accept one post like that. Similarly, next body means according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). You are preparing your next Life. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- yānti deva-vratā devān
- pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
- bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
- yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
- (BG 9.25)
So according to your culture, mentality, your condition of life will be at the end of your life. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). The whole life, as we have thought, as we have absorbed in thought, the same mentality will be concentrated at the time of your death. So, a god's mentality, or dog's mentality or hog's mentality, or... There are so many kinds of. So you'll get next body according to that mentality.
Prabhupāda: Give me little water. When they come to logic, when they give logic. (laughter)
Guest (1): Prabhupāda, they don't want any.
Prabhupāda: That is the dog's obstinacy. That is the mentality.
Guest (1): They lost their intelligence, by this civilization or by this culture.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Adānta-gobhir, by losing that intelligence they are going to the hell. They do not know it. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). By uncontrolled senses... Because as soon as they come to spiritual life, they have to control senses. So that they do not like. That is very difficult.
Guest (1): Like he said: "I'm not prepared for that."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually they are not prepared. Then you suffer.
Guest (1): Then you try to be prepared.
Prabhupāda: They are not prepared because as soon as they understand that they are going to be one these varieties of life, they shudder. Therefore they do not like to understand this. If by logic I prove that you are going to be a dog next life, that is very difficult. Just like one astrologer has said that Jawaharlal Nehru has become a dog in Sweden. You know that?
Guest (1): No, I don't.
Prabhupāda: So there are different prakṛtis. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). So there are different prakṛtis, different mentality. They want to live, eat. The eating, sleeping, mating, defending is there, but everyone has got different ideas. Just like you say, majority of people, they want to eat meat. They have got different mentality. But we don't want.
Ambassador: In India, of course, not majority, I think it's a minority.
Prabhupāda: No, no. More...
Ambassador: Most people are...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. In India, they're now being educated to eat meat. (Ambassador laughs) Otherwise, Indians, at least, Hindus...
Ambassador: It is true. That's true.
Prabhupāda: Eh? They are being educated.
Ambassador: (laughing) I belong to vegetarian family. I eat meat now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, in Madras, I have seen...
Prabhupāda: So we have no experience below zero degrees. But in Europe, America, there is places. In Russia also, below fifty degrees. But they do not stop their business. They know that "Winter season has come. It will go away again." So devotees, even they are in distressed condition, they know, "It has come due to my bad activities in the past. It will go away. Let me suffer and finish it." Just like if you become, all of a sudden, infected with some disease. So what? You'll go mad? No. You know that "I have infected this disease. Let me suffer a few days. It will go away. That's all." This is the mentality of the devotees. They are not disturbed. And if he's not disturbed, then he's fit for becoming liberated.
- yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete
- puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha
- sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ
- so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate
And our aim is amṛtatva, how to become immortal. That is our aim of life. So we have to achieve that goal of life. We should not be disturbed with this temporary distress and pleasure. That is called tapasya.
Guest (1): But what should be the first step to become a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes, dadāti. That I have already explained. Dadāti. He must give. Give. Everyone goes to God to beg, "God, give us our daily bread." But one must go to God to give Him. If I do not give bread to Kṛṣṇa, he will be starving. This is devotee's mentality. Yaśodāmāyī, Yaśodāmāyī is thinking, Kṛṣṇa, "If I do not feed Kṛṣṇa well, my child will die." This is devotion. Otherwise everyone is asking from Kṛṣṇa. But Yaśodā-mā is thinking that "If I do not maintain Kṛṣṇa properly, He will die." Therefore he (she) is always trying to supply everything, mākhana, miśri. So real love begins when you try to give God. Everyone is trying to take from God, "Oh father, give us our daily bread." This is not pure devotee. This is good because he has approached God, but this is not devotion. It is not devotion, it is..., means business "God, give me something, then I will love you." Is it not?
Guest (1): But giving means, you know, giving part of what you earn, or some other way. When you say give...
Prabhupāda: Give means, you want to take something from God. "God, give me wealth, give me fame" Yaśo dehi.
Prabhupāda: You are poor man, what you can give, charity? Why you are thinking that you can give in charity? Therefore God says, dadāsi yat: "If you are thinking to make some charity, give it to Me. Come on." Just like Bali Mahārāja was approached by Vāmanadeva. The Supreme Lord went to Bali Mahārāja, "Bali Mahārāja, give Me some land." You see. So these are all mental concoctions. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says that "If you have got such mentality to give some charity, give it to Me. Come on." The first thing is you try to learn how to give God.
Guest (1): But Gurujī, giving those who are in need, is not giving to God?
Prabhupāda: That is your philosophy. That is your philosophy. Everyone is needy.
Guest (3): Now people... There are drought conditions, people are starving. Cattles are dying. There are no rains.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are not God conscious, they are thinking like that. Now, suppose in the hospital, there are many patients. They are starving, many patients in the hospital. Do you know that or not? So why don't you give them food? They are starving. Why? Why don't you go to the hospital and you'll find hundreds of patients, they are starving... So similarly, why you are bothering? You are not bothering the hospital because you know that is right, they are starving. That is the physician's prescription. They must starve. So if you know God, then you will understand that you cannot help anyone.
Prabhupāda: Why? Because you have got different mind, therefore you create different situation. Just like we are walking here. Not that everyone is coming to join us. Because they have got different mentality. They want to sleep. We want to rise early in the morning. Why this difference?
Śrutaśrava: It is a great mistake they're making.
Prabhupāda: It is not mistake. It is your desire. And exactly according to the desire, you get a body. It is not mistake. No. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, whatever you think, exactly nature will give you a similar body. That's all. That is not in your hand. That is in the nature's hand. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).
Prabhupāda: Well, something wrong was done; therefore everything is wrong. If somebody, he might have seen some counterfeit coin, does it mean the whole currency is counterfeit? You cannot say like that.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: The śūdra mentality does not know how to correct the situation. They try to make liberty for themselves without instituting real religion again. (break)
Prabhupāda: This idea also. Now there should be examination whether so-called brāhmaṇas, they are actually following the brāhmaṇa regulative principle and chanting the mantra regularly. Otherwise they should be converted again śūdra. If we become safe simply by having a thread and do not do properly, then what is this? This should be examined. Every individual should be asked, "Now chant this Gāyatrī-mantra." He must. Are they doing properly?
Karandhara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. Otherwise, simply by name, so-called sacred thread holder will not do. Then again the same brahminical class as in India. (break) ...Paraśurāma. You know Paraśurāma?
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use? Because under democratic government, your order is not final. So if the people are demons, then what you will do? You cannot do anything. Therefore the people's mentality, consciousness, should be changed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. When they become God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will select Kṛṣṇa conscious president. Then everything finished. Formerly people used to accept the king as the final authority, but at this present moment, that is not accepted. People must accept. Now it is people's government. So unless people are God conscious, you cannot find good government. In comparison to other governments, your government is far better. People here (are) not starving.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes, I have seen.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In other governments the people are starving. They have no food. That is the worst government. First necessity of life, that one must eat, one must have shelter, but other governments cannot even do that. But in your country, you have got enough food, enough shelter, everything is there. That consideration, your government is very nice government. Bare necessities of life must be supplied. Here the fault is extravagancy.
Prabhupāda: Too much, yes. Luxury leads to poverty. Too much luxury. Now it will deteriorate.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was reading in one of the books you translated that you said that as more people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, the mentality of all of the people in that area, they lose their desires for material enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: No. Material enjoyment, you enjoy, but not like cats and dogs. You enjoy material life like human being. That is our proposal. Not like cats and dogs. Is it not enjoyment when you sit down in the Deity room and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read philosophy? It is not enjoyment?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes, it is very nice.
Prabhupāda: So this is human enjoyment. And to go to the brothel and drink and fight and talk all nonsense, is that enjoyment?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: No.
Prabhupāda: That is cats' and dogs' enjoyment. We must enjoy like human being. Enjoyment is not denied. Why should we deny?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: No, but as more people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there will more of a desire to live simply.
Prabhupāda: That is good for them. That is good for them. Because at the present moment they are missing the aim of life. That is the defect. They do not know what is the goal of life. They are thinking, "We are also cats and dogs." And that is the defect of the modern civilization. Our human life is to achieve the highest perfection. Otherwise this āhāra-nidra-bhaya... Even the small birds they know. Just see how they are protecting themselves.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...the psychologically whatever mental condition we prepare throughout this life, that means you are preparing next life, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam tyajanty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). The situation of the mind at the time of death will carry you to the similar body. Just like one who likes to eat some special foodstuff, so... Suppose the meat-eaters... So the mentality is "How to eat meat, how to eat meat." So they are given next life the canine teeth to give facility for eating meat. Canine teeth means dogs, cats, tigers, like that.
Girirāja: "Unless we have a particular type of body, we cannot enjoy or suffer according to our mental proclivities inherited from the previous life." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...another example. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. It is said that this living entity is untouched by this material body. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. So the example is given that the moon reflected on water appears to be moving, but moon is separate from that movement. (Hindi) Go on. (Hindi) (break) ...good example. Unnecessarily he thinks that "I belong to this country, I belong to this society." That means he creates another body. And if he knows perfectly well that "I do not belong to any of these bodies," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That teaching required, that every being is unattached to this body. Therefore yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape... Anyone who is maintaining himself under bodily concept of life, he is no better than the animals. (break) The demonic person does not accept any good lesson. Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. Because he is foolish, if you give him good advice, he will be angry. Still, we have to do that.
Prabhupāda: They cannot even speak... Ah?
Devotee: They'll have to study your books to find out what to say.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like our, what is this? Sai, Sai, Siddha-svarūpa. He also tried to imitate ourself, and by reading, reading, he became my disciple. Although he has the same mentality, still, still he does not find any better solution than our philosophy. The Karandhara, he went away (chuckles) and does not find any solution. You see?
Satsvarūpa: "I find no alternative to Kṛṣṇa's service," he said.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the final. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is final. (break)
Mahāṁśa: ...start all over the world?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Indian man (2): I told him about the drafts, you see, that you made the other day. I said, "Prabhupāda has only agreed. It was so magnanimous of him, so magnanimous."
Prabhupāda: Yes, I told you Friday, you write, I shall sign it. And why they are agitating and stopped such a function? And that is very regrettable. Gosvāmī means vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ viṣaheta. If there is some krodha, you should tolerate. Now here is a Vaiṣṇava, he has done so much for Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the reception was there, and he stopped. How he is gosvāmī? He expressed his krodha in that very moment, just to take retaliation. It is not gosvāmī. What do you think? Krodha-vegam. It is a krodha, but he could not tolerate that krodha-vegam. He retaliated at the right moment and to a person, fit person who was to be honored. Just see. And he claims to be gosvāmī. The first business is vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam. The Vaikuṇṭha mentality is that if one is serving—I have read it in Bhāgavata—Kṛṣṇa better than somebody else, he would simply appreciate that "Kṛṣṇa has so much favored him. Oh, how fortunate he is. When I shall be able?" That is Vaikuṇṭha mentality. And the material mentality is, "Oh, he has advanced so much. How to come down him?" That is material. This is the difference between Vaikuṇṭha mentality. So his business is how to come down. So he is not a gosvāmī. At least I will not accept. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Prabhupāda: Very recent, very recent future. This Communist and Capitalist mentality will bring the next... The Communists will be victorious.
Dhanañjaya: And after the war what will be the result?
Prabhupāda: After the war they will come to sense. The Communist problem... Communist is not a problem. It is good proposal, but they are missing one point. They are making Lenin the leader. If they make Kṛṣṇa the leader, then the Communistic idea will be very fruitful. They are picking up a rascal leader, but if they pick up the nice leader, God the supreme dictator, then every-thing is all right. They are catching up a dictator, but they do not know that he is rascal number one. But if he catches the Supreme Lord as dictator, as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), then he will be happy, immediately. Keep amongst yourself and produce. Produce food grain, produce cotton, mustard seed. Self dependent, no use... And we don't require motorcar. Bullock cart is sufficient. There is no need of going anywhere.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, that is kṣatriya. If one does not obey the social structure, he must be forced. That is the idea of slaves. The śūdras who do not work properly, he must be forced. Nobody should remain unemployed. The śūdras are inclined. If he has got something to eat, he will not work. You see? Then again he will work when his need, eating. This is śūdra mentality.
Bhagavān: So they have to be kept employed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have to be... They should not possess, so that they will work always.
Yogeśvara: Yeah, but that was exactly the situation that sparked the Communist revolution. When the workers felt themselves exploited, then they revolted.
Prabhupāda: No, workers, what is that? Exploited?
Yogeśvara: Yes, when the śūdras were seeing that, "Oh, these men, they are keeping us as slaves, and they are making us work just for our food," then they revolted.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You should keep them such nicely and friendly way, they will never think like that. They will think that you are giving him food and shelter, and you are taking care, giving them protection to their family. Then they will be happy. Then they are happy. When you give them all protection, then they will be happy. Now... Just like in Japan. The industrialists give all men. They give food. They give education. They give shelter. So they work very happily.
Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. If I become manager, I will pay for that. Suppose there is work as a... Would you like to work sweep the street or become manager? What shall I say? "No, no, I shall become manager." Why this mentality? Why he does not accept, "Yes, I shall sweep"?
Haihaya: Yes, but the point is that equal right is...
Prabhupāda: Where is equal right?
Haihaya: The same possibilities of education to everyone.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Where is equal right? That is also with the capitalists also. The same thing, we divide. We divide that "This is brāhmaṇa, this is kṣatriya, this is vaiśya, this is śūdra." We also divide, and you also divide. Then where is the advancement in philosophy?
Haihaya: Because they think that capitalists, they don't give the same possibilities to earn...
Prabhupāda: They think, but we see practically: Why there is difference between this manager and the laborer class? Will the dictator, the manager will take the same salary as the sweeper is taking? Why there is difference? Why the manager is given more preference for living condition? Where is equality? First of all show me. Simply talking will not do.
Yogeśvara: Well, they say "You are distributing food, and we are also distributing food. You are opening schools, and we are also opening schools."
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we are opening school for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore the rascals, they cannot understand what is bhakti and what is karma. Bhakti looks like karma, but it's not karma. It is bhakti. They cannot understand what is bhakti. Bhakti means the same karma, but for Kṛṣṇa's sake. That is bhakti. Just like the same fight, battlefield, but because it was done for Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is accepted, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: (BG 4.3) "You are My devotee. You are My very dear." But what did he do? His business was to fight. He fought, that's all. But fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is the secret. He did not change his fighting capacity as a warrior. But he changed his mentality. His mentality was that "Why shall I kill my kinsmen?" But Kṛṣṇa wanted, "Oh, that's all right." So therefore service is for Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Their nice standard of living will be lost.
Prabhupāda: No, why? The standard of living should be one: plain living and God consciousness. That is the disease. Everyone wants to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. Therefore we divide. They don't want to live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Material consciousness. Enjoyment of the senses. And that is the cause of their suffering. Only on account of this sense gratification, they're creating different mentality, and, after death, they're getting different body. That they do not know. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. One is trying to associate with the goodness, brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa qualification, he'll be promoted, and one who is trying to imitate, "I shall be as powerful as the tiger," he'll be degraded. It is nature's law.
Prabhupāda: Jātu. What is...? Even for some time, they did not hear. Purport?
Nitāi: "The general mass of people, unless they are trained systematically for a higher standard of life in spiritual values, are no better than animals, and in this verse they have been particularly put on the level of dogs, hogs, camels and asses. Modern university education practically prepares one to acquire a doggish mentality to accept the service of a greater master. Like the dogs, after finishing so-called education, the so-called educated persons move from door to door with applications for some service,..."
Prabhupāda: At least, we have got this experience in India. There are so many unemployed, educated. Because they have been educated as dog, they must find out a master. Otherwise, they have no independent power to work. Dog, unless he finds out a very nice master, it is street dog, loitering in the street.
Bhagavān: There's a report that there's so many Ph.D's who are graduating from school now that there are not enough jobs for them. So they have to take jobs as truck-driver and taxi driver.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Bhagavān: In the United States.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: Therefore... Yes. And not only kicked out. Who knows that he has been given a different body, maybe cats and dogs? So what is the value of this creation? Suppose I create this building, and on account of mentality, nature gives me next body a dog, and... Then what is my profit?
Yogeśvara: Yeah, there was that man who came to see you a couple of days ago. His argument was that we can't really say for sure because it's not perceivable that we will take a dog's body. But at least this is something we can understand. Here's something, a nice accomplishment.
Prabhupāda: But you understand, but you can understand also that you'll be kicked out. Don't you understand this?
Bhagavān: He doesn't know it.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Therefore, he's a fool.
Bhagavān: There's a statement that says that...
Prabhupāda: Just like suppose if I do something here in Paris, and if you say, "Sir, as soon as your visa is finished, you'll be kicked out," shall I be interested to create anything? That is intelligence, that "I will be kicked out after two months. Why shall I construct such a big scheme?" That is intelligence. So these rascals know that he'll be kicked out. Still, he works day and night for collecting bricks and stones and he becomes a big man. Mean a foolish rascal, he is considered a big man. Therefore śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).
Paramahaṁsa: People argue that "God has given us our intelligence and our senses, and therefore we must enjoy."
Prabhupāda: Yes. You enjoy. The dog is also enjoying. What you are enjoying more than the dog? Dog also eat. You also eat. Dog also sleep. You also sleep. Dogs also enjoy sex life. You also enjoy sex life. Dog is also afraid of his enemy. You are also afraid of your enemy. So what is the difference between you and dog? Why you claim that you have become very great? What is the difference between the dog's mentality and your mentality? God has given you intelligence to understand that you are nothing, God is everything. Just realize it. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. When you understand that "God is great. I am His servant," that is real reali... That is his intelligence. Otherwise, he's exactly like the dog. What is his intelligence?
Paramahaṁsa: But people today have reasoned God is dead with their intelligence.
Prabhupāda: God is not dead. Your intelligence is dead. You have got a dead body, and you are proud of it. Eh? Decoration of the dead body. And you are decorating the dead body. The body's dead. That's a fact. Because as soon as you, soul, get out, it is dead body. But the body's already there. That means I am occupying a dead body. So long I am there, it is working only. But the body's dead. And you are decorating the dead body. You are so intelligent. You are interested with a dead body. And you have no intelligence to see that actually it is dead body. Because as soon as I will go away, it is dead body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore we accept Absolute Truth from the Absolute.
Karandhara: And according to the Vedic system, in different times and different places, according to the mentality and the culture of the people, the Absolute has made Himself known on different levels, higher and lower levels. But that... The Absolute as revealed through the Vedas, specifically the Bhagavad-gītā, is the most advanced level. It is the standard by which all other levels are judged. It is the most advanced, complete knowledge.
Church Representative: Yes, I know this. I know. I know this.
Karandhara: But it's not just an opinion. It's not just a secular idea. By scientific principle, if we consider the logic of all the propositions of Bhagavad-gītā in relation to the Bible and Koran, if we're actually impartial and open, then we'll understand that truth. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of superior logic, extending the same basic truths to their highest perfection. So in discussing the merits of Bhagavad-gītā versus another scripture, it's not that we're trying to argue just for the sake of polemics but to establish the real standard, what is the most elevated or advanced standard of the knowledge.
Bhagavān: But people are suffering due to lack of that accurate knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If they do not accept, they are foolish, if God is one. God cannot be two.
Guest (3): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is the purpose of human life to realize God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only purpose. Except this purpose, fulfilling, anything we are doing, that is animalism. As the dog is jumping we are also jumping like that. It is dog's dancing, that's all. What is the difference? A dog is thinking, "I am very strong dog. I am this." And another man—"I am Englishman. I am..." So what is the difference? Mentality is the same. To think of this body that "I am this body," that is required to the dog, to the man. When one understands that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," that is humanity.
Guest (3): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, have you realized God?
Prabhupāda: What do you think? What is your opinion?
Guest (3): I can't say.
Prabhupāda: Then if I say, "yes," then what you will understand? If you are not yourself expert, then even if I say, "Yes, I am God realized," how you will take it as truth? If you do not know what is God realization, then how you can ask this question and how you will be satisfied by the answer? You do not know.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) He is not poet. Poet means he must have full knowledge. Then if he writes poetry, that will be beneficial. The rascal's poetry, just like in your country, one line, three lines, one line. This is rascaldom; it is not poetry. (aside:) You should not show your feet before the Deity. That is possible only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We teach our men to address his fellow man as prabhu: "You are master, I am servant." In the material world, everyone is trying to become master; nobody is trying to become servant. And we are teaching that you try to become servant. Just the opposite. Nobody will agree. Therefore, they say the Vaiṣṇava religion is slave mentality. They say. They do not know that it is success of life to become slave of Kṛṣṇa. They do not know. Who has become happy trying to become master? (indistinct)
Devotee (2): They'll all be cheated.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is... He died with that mentality. It is there. Just like we go to sleep, but all your mental activities are reserved. In the morning again you begin.
Mādhava: Prabhupāda, you say that the living entity, he is thinking about a particular kind of body and a particular activity...
Prabhupāda: Not particular body—particular desire. And according to the desire, Kṛṣṇa is giving him facility through the material machine to give him a particular type of body. Just like one man is thinking of eating anything nonsense. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You give him this body of hog. He can eat even stool." That's all. You want to be naked, nudie? So Kṛṣṇa gives him, "So he is very much anxious to become nudie. Make him a tree. Stand up for five thousand years naked." This is going on.
Prabhupāda: This is the difference between man of knowledge and without knowledge. A man of knowledge will think, "After all, I have to die. So what is the difficulty, dying a few days more or before?" That is knowledge. And those who are not in knowledge, they are afraid of death. Best business is before the death comes let us finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly. That is wanted. Death will come. You cannot avoid it.
Rāmeṣvara: They say that this radioactive fallout will pollute the air so that no crops can be grown.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You shall die without food. Be(cause) after all, the death. In Bengal, it is called: more bhera ghalne (?): "The most misfortunate thing is death." That will come. Therefore the best intelligence is how to avoid death.
Rūpānuga: Become immortal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real intelligence, not to be bothered by these trifle temporary things that "I am dying twenty years before. If the situation was better, I would have lived more twenty years." What is this mentality?
Devotee: Back to Godhead.
Ajāta-śatru: Yes, we can go back to Godhead. (Prabhupāda enters temple, kīrtana very loud) (end)
Prabhupāda: Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Anāśritaḥ kar... Everyone is expecting some good result for his sense gratification. That is āśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. He has taken the shelter of good result. But one who does not take shelter of the result of activities... It is my duty. Karyam. Karyam means "It is my duty. Doesn't matter what is the result. I must do it sincerely to my best capacity. Then I don't care for the result. Result is in Kṛṣṇa's hand." Karyam: "It is my duty. My Guru Mahārāja said it, so it is my duty. It doesn't matter whether it is successful or not successful. That depends on Kṛṣṇa." In this way, anyone, if he works, then he is a sannyāsī. Not the dress, but the attitude of working. Yes, that is sannyāsa. Karyam: "It is my duty." Sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca. He is yogi, first-class yogi. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna officially, he did not take sannyāsa. He was a gṛhastha, soldier. But when he took it very seriously, karyam—"Kṛṣṇa wants this fight. Never mind I have to kill my relatives. I must do it"—that is sannyāsa. First of all he argued with Kṛṣṇa that "This kind of fighting is not good, family killing...," and so on, so on, so on. He argued. But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, when he understood that "It is my duty. Kṛṣṇa wants me to do it." Karyam. So in spite of his becoming a householder, a soldier, he's a sannyāsī. He took it-karyam. Karyam means "It is my duty." That is real sannyāsa. "Kṛṣṇa wants that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be spread. So this is my karyam. This is my duty. And the direction is my spiritual master. So I must do it." This is sannyāsa. This is sannyāsa, sannyāsa mentality. But there is formality. That should... That may be accepted.
Prabhupāda: That is the modern civilization. They are avoiding cow dung and associating dog stool. (laughs) This is modern... Cow dung is so beneficial. That they are avoiding. And they are associating dog stool. The dog mentality. The master and the servant, and the, er, dog, both of them watching. The master writes by signboard. What is that? "Keep away. Private property." And the animal also making, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Both of them are dogs. He is making "Gow! Gow!" by signboard, and he is doing it as nature, but both of them are dogs. One is two-legged dog, another is four-legged dog.
Siddha-svarūpa: Man keeps dog as an extension of his doggish mentality, as an extension of himself.
Bali-mardana: The dog... Sometimes the dog and the person, they look the same.
Siddha-svarūpa: They look alike. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Siddha-svarūpa: It's often seen that an owner of a dog looks just like that particular dog. They look very much alike, and they have similar personalities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact because the subtle body is doggish and he is going to be a dog next life. Tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Because he is always thinking of his dog, always, therefore he is going to be a dog.
Prabhupāda: Union. So they should take it. If they have no information of actual God, take it from us.
Dr. Judah: Yes, well, I do, I... As I say, as I said last night...
Prabhupāda: No, you have got that mentality, I know that. But because you are president or chairman of that center... What is that? Union.
Dr. Judah: I'm chairman of the department of the history and phenomenology of religion.
Prabhupāda: So who is the chairman of this union?
Dr. Judah: I'm just the chairman of this one department of the history and phenomenology of religion.
Prabhupāda: That's... Then you are also important officer. So you can induce them, that "Here is God."
Dr. Judah: Well, I'm going to try to do what I can to..., as I told you to...
Prabhupāda: (laughing) No, no, if they do not take, refuse to take, so what kind of theologians they are? That is my... Here is the knowledge. Why one should refuse to take it?
Dr. Judah: When you have your temple there in Berkeley, I want to continue on chanting and being with the devotees and doing what I can to further Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā... If you take this that "Kṛṣṇa is Indian, Kṛṣṇa is Hindu, we shall not take," but the words Kṛṣṇa, if you take it, "God said," or whatever you..., so the wordings are God's. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is nobody, superior element than Me." So God can say that. So you remove the word, Kṛṣṇa uvāca, but take the words of God. Who can be superior than God?
Prabhupāda: ...no rose here? We don't see any rose.
Kuruśreṣṭha: They don't like to grow nice things for fear someone will take them.
Bahulavana: There's a big rose garden by the museum.
Kuruśreṣṭha: They don't grow fruit trees in the park because someone will eat them.
Prabhupāda: And he will not work. Escaping. (break) ...demonic mentality, "I shall not do anything which will be enjoyed by others." And human mentality is that "I shall do something which will be enjoyed by others." That is human mentality.
Brahmānanda: In India isn't it the system that after they harvest the wheat they leave some on the ground for the others to come and pick?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, they distribute while in the field. They give to the brāhmaṇas, to the temples, to the king, and the balance they take. This is the Vedic system, that if I grow something, first of all twenty-five percent to the king, then to the temple, to the brāhmaṇas, to the poor. And then balance, I shall take. And they produce so large quantity, they do not feel any scarcity. And when the trade came, people understood. Then they want to sell. "Why shall I give to the temple? Why shall I give to the brāhmaṇa? Save it. I shall sell it. I shall get more money, and I shall drink." When trade came. When there was no trade, you grow your own food and distribute freely. In my Guru Mahārāja's time they were collecting the rice and other food grain, huge quantity. They were giving. And now they are not giving. They think that "If I sell, I shall get so much money, and it will help me for my drinking."
Prabhupāda: Because of these things. They do not know that.
Woman reporter: And if women were subordinate to men, it would solve all of our problems?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Man wants that woman should be subordinate, faithful to him. Then he is ready to take charge. The man's mentality, woman's mentality different. So if the woman agrees to remain faithful and subordinate to man, then the family life will be peaceful.
Woman reporter: Thank you. It's late.
TV Cameraman: Any more questions?
Woman reporter: Yes. I'll ask the same questions again, do not answer.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Nitāi: She's going to ask the same questions, but no need to answer. They're just going to photograph her. This is for on TV they will show her asking the questions. (break)
Woman reporter: What will you do in Philadelphia?
Prabhupāda: The same thing. I have got my temple there. I stay there, and I teach people according to my philosophy.
Prof. Hopkins: So you would see the Bhagavad-gītā then as accessible to a wide range of people, at an elementary level or beginning level, whereas Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam would be for more advanced, more advanced people.
Prabhupāda: Not only advanced, completely advanced. Because so long one will be, stay on the material platform, he will be envious of others only, animal propensity, dog. Dog does not like another dog is coming. So unless one is spiritually realized, the dog mentality will remain there. It is said nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam, even amongst the topmost thinkers, if he does not refute other thinkers, he is not a good thinker. That enviousness. He will not be established a good thinker if he cannot... If a scientist, if he cannot refute the previous scientist, he is not a scientist. This is material world. Everyone is envious of the other. So Bhāgavata meant for who is no more envious. Simply loving.
Prabhupāda: What is his mentality? (break) There is tiger. (break) ...interior village in Bengal, there are tigers. Orissa also.
Brahmānanda: In Los Angeles city they have coyotes, like a wolf, and they go around eating the pet cats and dogs.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Brahmānanda: People are very upset.
Prabhupāda: In the city?
Brahmānanda: Yes. In the residential areas especially. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...hiding?
Brahmānanda: Yes. But they are becoming even more and more bold. Even during the day now they are coming, and they'll go in someone's... On the lawn there will be a dog playing or a cat, and... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Those animals sometimes kill children also, small children. (break) ...padaṁ yad vipadam: "Every step there is danger." This is place.
Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. What you have changed? Can you stop the fire burning your hand? Can you change this? Then why you talk foolish? These are foolish propositions. Nature will act. You may be so-called advanced in science. What is, your science will do? Will you not die? Will you not be diseased? Will you not become old? Then where is your advancement? You are strictly under the laws of nature. You cannot violate a single inch even. Daiv hy eṣ guṇamay mama māy duratyayā. One sane man should consider that "Why I am strictly under the laws of nature? I am prime..." This question was put by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I am prime minister. People adore me as paṇḍita, very learned, but why I am put into these tribulations of the laws of nature? Why as prime minister and learned paṇḍita I cannot counteract it?" This is real question. Simply doggish mentality: "Yes, why shall I not do it? Why shall I?"—what will benefit you? That means you are not even sober. You are not human being. Human being should question "Why?" That is human being. Now by nature's law the river is full with water. If the nature does not supply, what you can do, your so-called science? Can you fill up with water? Then what is your science? Bogus. You cannot counteract the laws of nature. Hm? Can you? Brahmānanda can. (laughter) He is strong enough. Kartikeya, you can do it?
Kartikeya (Indian Life Member): No, I can't do it.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot see them. Your philosophy is unless you see, you don't believe. That is your philosophy. But you do not consider what you can see. That is the defect of this imperfect world, that people do not think that they are imperfect. With all imperfectness, they think they are perfect. That is the defect. Therefore it is said, andha. One is blind, and he is becoming the leader of other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantrya, by the laws of nature he is bound up very tight, hands and legs, and he is thinking he is free to think, free to see, free to... That is the defect. He is not at all free, completely under the clutches of material laws, and he is thinking that he is free. That is the defect. And when this sense comes, that "I am not free; everything is forced upon me," then he becomes human being. Otherwise he's a dog. Just like, you see, if a dog thinks he is free. He is jumping here, there. He is thinking, "I am independent," barking, attacking somebody. Oh, he is thinking he is free to do everything. When one comes to this sense, that he is not free, that is beginning of human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Then the question will be that "Why I am not free? What is the reason?" Then that is... Real human life begins. Otherwise he's a dog. Is it correct or not? What do you think? If one is not free and wrongly thinks that he is free, then what is that mentality? A doggish mentality. And if I say, "Yes, you are free. You can think in any way you like. That is correct," then you become more encouraged to become, to remain a fool, to continue. That's all. So we shall go now? That is the defective part of modern civilization. Everyone is thinking, "I am free." Is it not? Everyone.
Prabhupāda: Just like the dog. He goes fast here and there. "Gow! Gow!" (laughter) It is like that. He is going fast. Doggish mentality. That's all, all dogs and cats, no human being. This civilization means they are creating only dogs and cats, animals, go-kharaḥ, cows and asses. They are... We don't take them as human being. All animals.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they don't acknowledge that they're suffering?
Prabhupāda: So many things. So many things. The first ignorance is that accepting this body as self. Everyone.
Cyavana: The capitalists are so anxious for money that they exploit this tendency of the living entity to enjoy by tempting him. Every year they create some new way to entice him.
Prabhupāda: And taxation. And the taxation is divided among them. The tax is meant for public welfare. Instead of public welfare, they divide it amongst themselves and enjoy wine, women, motorcar and flesh. That's all. This is going on. All this income tax-plundering process. This income tax means a plan how to take away everything from the actually earning members of the society. That is income tax. And that is divided amongst administrators. That's all.
Prabhupāda: And keep the head light instead of unnecessarily burdened. In the Kali-yuga there is a symptom. It is stated in the... Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam: "In the Kali-yuga people will think by keeping long hairs he has become beautiful." This is the mentality of this age. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. You can write this. Lāvaṇyam means luster, and keśa-dhāraṇam means keeping hair.
Guest (3): By preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness would you condemn other people's beliefs?
Prabhupāda: We must condemn anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. We say... I don't condemn; Kṛṣṇa condemns.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Duṣkṛtinaḥ means sinful; and mūḍhāḥ means rascals, asses; and narādhamāḥ means lowest of the mankind; and māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ means their knowledge has been taken by māyā; and āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ means atheist class. So this class of men will never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So if one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, we immediately take them either of these: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. This is our stand.
Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. If He wanted to check us from going there, He could check us from going into the prison, from offending.
Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa has given you independence. So you are.... By mentality, you have to suffer. Suppose if a child wants to do something, play, if you check it, check it, then he will go mad. Just like mother Yasoda was showing stick to Kṛṣṇa, and when Kṛṣṇa became so much afraid, he (she) became immediately anxious: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has too much anxiety. He may fall sick." So immediately throw away. So this is father-mother's affection.
Cyavana: So actually it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He allows us to come here, free ourselves from...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has given you little freedom. He doesn't want to take your freedom.
Prabhupāda: Civilization... If you remain in a dog's position, is that civilization? I proved that you are in a dog's position. How can you refute the argument which I have put, that you are in a dog's position? Exactly the dog. Śva-viḍ-varaha. Dog's position, hog's position, camel's position, and ass's position. These four animals have been compared. Śva, viḍ-varāha, uṣṭra, khara. And "I have been given vote." Yes, śva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣa paśuḥ. You are animal, and other animals, they are giving you vote. That's all. You are very much proud that you are minister, you have got vote, but who has given you vote? The same animal class. What is the meaning of your vote? Śva-viḍ... How selected words in the Bhāgavatam. Śva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣa paśuḥ.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This desire to accumulate money, is this just like annamaya stage?
Prabhupāda: That is doggish. The example, he has got already one loaf, but another dog: "This is also my stock." Why you should hanker after another? You have got already. Be satisfied. "No." That is doggish mentality. (end)
Prabhupāda: The dog is barking. He is thinking, "I am dog. I am appointed here as watchman, watchdog, and as soon as somebody is passing, 'Yow! Gow! Gow!' " So, and similarly, if I keep myself in the dog mentality and act like that—"Why you have come to this country? Why you have come to my jurisdiction?" the same dog mentality.
Faill: Is it vital to follow certain eating habits? I mean...
Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole process is how to purify ourself. So by... according to eating, the purification also... I think Mr. Bernard Shaw, he wrote one book that "You Are What You Eat." And that's a fact. We constitute our bodily atmosphere and mental atmosphere according to eating. So our Kṛṣṇa conscious movement recommends... Not the movement recommends. It is recommended in the śāstra that to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you eat the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. Just like opposite way: if a tuberculosis patient eats something and if you eat the remnants, then you will be infected with the tuberculosis bacillus. Is it not? So similarly, if you eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam, then you infect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our process. We don't take anything directly. We offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take kṛṣṇa-prasādam. That helps us. We do not take anything... We cannot take anything from the restaurant or from the shop. No. We prepare everything, offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take.
Cyavana: That's a third-class mentality, to be satisfied with that city...,
Prabhupāda: Temporary...
Cyavana: Simply to have a city and be satisfied.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Cyavana: Third-class mentality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He's eternal. He does not know his eternal necessity. This is called ignorance. (break) You brought that sitting mat?
Brahmānanda: Use our chaddars. (end)
Prabhupāda: "That's all right. Without serving Kṛṣṇa, I am getting pleasure by drinking wine. Why shall I...?"
Cyavana: That pleasure will not last. That pleasure is only temporary.
Prabhupāda: "No, I will not also last. (laughter) that..."
Cyavana: But to accept such a mentality, we say that is third class. Actually our life is eternal.
Prabhupāda: That is your statement, "third class," but my statement is "It is first class." (laughter)
Harikeśa: Is it first class if every time you are going to eat something nice I was standing over you with a stick, and as soon as you took, I would beat you? So every time you have some enjoyment, there is some concurrent suffering. Like you enjoy the wine, but then you have a headache, hangover. You enjoy. Then you get sick.
Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Tenth Chapter, He says, "For those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I will give the understanding by which they can come to Me." So this is our desire.
Prabhupāda: "I don't want to go."
Prabhupāda: The bodily consciousness is also material. That is also one. And the soul consciousness, spiritual, that is also one. That is ekatvam. So for a learned person there is no defect. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, paṇḍitaḥ samaḥ (BG 5.18). This is the... So anyone who is under the bodily conception of life, either human beings or dogs, they are the same. But that upādhi amongst human being is stronger than the cats and dogs. The human being, being advanced in consciousness, they are making this nationalism. But it is nothing but dogism. Is it not? That's all. The so-called national people are sacrificing so many lives, so many politicians, Napoleon and these big, big leaders. But what is their business? Business is that doggish mentality: "I am this body." So it is very difficult to give up this doggish mentality that "I am this body." Very, very difficult.
Prabhupāda: The real thing is they do not retire on account of their strong sense of gratification. That is the reason, not that poverty-stricken. Even though poverty-stricken, still they want to enjoy. This is the basic principle. There is nothing to be enjoyed; still, he wants to enjoy. That mentality.
Dr. Patel: Why with all that glorious past and glorious culture they have to... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the principle, varṇāśrama-dharma.
- varṇāśramācāravatāṁ
- puruṣena paraḥ puman
- viṣṇur aradhyate puṁsaṁ
- nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam
- (CC Madhya 8.58)
Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Nanyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam. Tat-toṣa means to satisfy Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. They don't want to do that. They want to satisfy their senses.
Dr. Patel: Now they are keeping dogs in their kitchens.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Doggish mentality is there.
Dr. Patel: You see, the people are spending more than thirty, forty rupees on a dog every day. But they won't pay two rupees to a servant, domestic servant in their home.
Prabhupāda: They are keeping servants also. But educated dogs. After passing so many examinations, they are seeking after master. And without master they will starve. This is doggish mentality. A big technologist, unless he gets a good job, he is nothing but dog.
Dr. Patel: He has got no means to further his technology. He must have some means to further his own technology in the modern times, sir. It is very difficult to further your technology without proper means, instruments.
Prabhupāda: On the principle it is dog's business. Unless you get a master, you are useless. So that is dog's business. Just like these dogs here on the beach. Because they have no master, they are forlorn, only barking and going here, there. Sanatha jivitaḥ. So we are, every one of us, we are now dogs of the material nature, or just like street dogs. So therefore... Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we should take shelter of the big master, Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be all right. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...eva caran nirantaram. This is Yamunacārya's prayer. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaram. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraṁ praśānta-nihśeṣa-gato... Prasanta-nihsesa-gato-manantaram. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...all right? No. Not yet. You are feeling all right?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just try to understand that whatever it may be, what is the mentality of these rascals, that "The good things do not come to your notice." If something is bad, "Oh, here is..." You see. Pāmarāḥ doṣam icchanti guṇam icchanti paṇḍitāḥ. Saj-janā guṇam icchanti doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. That means they are not even a Vaiṣṇava. You see? Vaiṣṇava means paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Even one has got some fault, a Vaiṣṇava does not see that. He takes the good qualities. But they are not even Vaiṣṇava. Yes. Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. The mission of Gau..., Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is being preaching all over the.... That does not come to their.... Some Japanese paper has written something—it has come immediately. Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. That fool, that he's a.... Here is a pāmara, and he's a lowest of the mankind. You can say that "Why this thing has come prominent to your eyes and not the other thing?"
Prabhupāda: (laughs) How?
Bhavānanda: Well, the more he hears. Because he gets so many reports. So many people are coming here, and no one is going there. Even...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His mentality is becoming like Kaṁsa, I think. At every moment he is thinking, "This Prabhupāda..."
Prabhupāda: So who...? Somebody inquired him that "What is this called? So many people are coming." Huh?
Bhavānanda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He knows no one is coming there. Not very many more people are coming there than are here. Because most of the people come here...
Prabhupāda: That they are realizing, that "We are becoming insignificant gradually." That they are realizing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one goes to Mādhava Mahārāja's maṭha at all. The only maṭha that they still visit is that Śrī Caitanya Maṭha. And they have no money, so that place is becoming so dilapidated that no one is going there either. And there's no life there. There's no young people. There are no...
Prabhupāda: No, how they can? They cannot feed them.
Prabhupāda: And what was before forty thousand years?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Apes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And wherefrom the apes came?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lesser..., lesser-mentality beings. Everything originated...
Prabhupāda: So anything is a development. That is, therefore, called Darwin's theory of evolution. But where the evolution begins? That is the question.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It begins from these primordial elements.
Prabhupāda: So where that elements came?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were always there. They are eternal.
Prabhupāda: Then? Then why you say, "From this time it begun"? Everything is eternal. There is no question of beginning.
Prabhupāda: So they have not come, the workers?
Jagadīśa: They are there. (break)
Hari-śauri: ...without birth, death, disease and old age, then we can simply say that "You already were like that before, but you gave it up because of your mentality."
Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?
Hari-śauri: A person already has the position where he doesn't have to experience birth, death, old age, like that. So if they argue like that, "Why doesn't God give us that position where we can enjoy without God consciousness...?"
Prabhupāda: God has given, giving you the position that "You obey Me, and you get the position," but because you are rascal—you are not obeying—you are suffering.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like a hog takes stool instead of sweetmeat. The hoggish mentality.
Prabhupāda: That is God's mercy that he wants to eat stool, and God has given you, "All right, you eat stool. Take this body."
Prabhupāda: No. Work more and work less doesn't matter. If he's actually hungry, he can take. Work must be there. If he does not work, what is the use of eating?
Jayapatākā: This program...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayapatākā: The difficulty that every person has not got the same mentality... One...
Prabhupāda: That... That will depend on the preaching of the sannyāsīs. What is this? Frame?
Indian man (1): It's a hot iron building, Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: It's the wrong type of renunciation.
Prabhupāda: There is no renunciation. There is sense gratification. "I like this." That's all. He is thinking that "I am so renounced," but he's still satisfying his senses. That's all. As soon as we manufacture something, that is sense gratification. "I want to fulfill my desire. That's all." That is sense gratification. It may be I sit down on the tree, or I may sit down on the palace. That is sense... The basic principle is sense gratification. The other day I was talking about hīrā-cora and kṣīrā-cora. Hīrā means diamond. And kṣīrā means...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Flares.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you can invent so many means of curing the danger. But as soon as the sun is there, immediately all mist is over. Similarly, we have invented so many medicines and counteractions for so many things. But if one becomes a devotee, all these troubles immediately.... That is the only one medicine. He has no more any inclination. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "No more I want." And that is wanted. (break) ...asmi varaṁ na yāce. One should be fully satisfied: "No more I want this material disease. That's all. Enough of it." That mentality required: "I don't want anything material facility." Sannyāsa means that, that "I shall live with the minimum necessities of life and simply devote..." That is sannyāsa. "I shall become a sannyāsī and enjoy all material facilities"—that is not sannyāsa. (break) ...recommended that "If there is no need, don't take even cloth. Remain naked." That is sannyāsa. But because we have to preach, because we have to go the people, therefore some covering. Otherwise, this is also not necessary for a sannyāsī. Nothing. Lie down on the floor like the Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, and take water in your palm, no dress. Śukadeva was also not dressing, naked. That is the perfection of sannyāsa. (break) Where is Jayapatākā? (break) ...talk with this boy. He wanted to.... (break) ...make. He's offering a land. Did you talk with him?
Prabhupāda: Why? If you don't require anything, why should you purchase? Don't create artificial demand. If you require to purchase something, then purchase. That is material civilization. "I don't require it; still I want it." Atyāhāra.
- atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca
- prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ
- jana-saṅgaś ca laulyaṁ ca
- ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati
- (NOI 2)
Finish. We should not possess anything which is not absolutely necessary. We are keeping these cars for preaching facility, not for sense gratification. We are keeping this dictaphone for preaching facility. Otherwise why it should be required?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is the whole mentality, then.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The whole mentality is changed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the Kurukṣetra fight. Kṛṣṇa wanted; therefore he fought. Personally he did not want. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: The.... Our movement is an educative movement to understand the real position of living condition, and then we act. Just like if you know your real position, then, if you act intelligently, then it is nice. If you do not know what is your position, what is the use of your education and acting? You do not know your real position. That is ignorance. And that is dog mentality. The dog cannot understand that he is not body; he is something else. But human intelligence is advanced. If they do not try to understand this fact, then what is the difference between him and dog?
Mike Barron: None.
Prabhupāda: That is being misused. There is no institution, no university, no education system, to understand what is that living force, without which it is a lump of matter. Where is that education?
Mike Barron: What do you call that force?
Prabhupāda: That is the soul, or consciousness. The same thing, the pilot. The pilot may be a small man, and the airship may be very gigantic. You can make still more. But the pilot is the same. So the body may be elephant or a small ant, but the pilot is the same. That is real understanding.
Prabhupāda: You know? What is the aim? Tell me. What is the aim of human life? Tell me. We shall accept you as guru. Tell me. What is the aim of life?
Mike Barron: To be happy in myself.
Prabhupāda: That, how dog is happy? Therefore I have said "dog mentality." You do not know what is happiness. You know simply by barking you'll be happy. That's all.
Mike Barron: Well, how do I find out?
Prabhupāda: No, what is happiness? Do you know what is happiness?
Mike Barron: Perhaps not. How do I find out that?
Prabhupāda: Find out.... But then why you are asking about guru? You do not know what is happiness.
Mike Barron: Can you tell me?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your happiness is that you do not like to die: you die. That is your distress. You do not like to become old man: you become old. So that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is unhappiness. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). That is intelligence, that "I do not want death. Why death comes upon me? Where is my happiness?" This knowledge will lead you to understand what is happiness. But if you remain ignorant like animal, you do not know what is happiness, and if you think, "The dog is having sex. I'll have sex. That is happiness," then where is the difference, dog mentality and your mentality?
Mike Barron: And Kṛṣṇa consciousness can help me attain this?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He knows, "This dog's mentality of eating, sleeping, sex and defense is not my happiness. My real distress is that I do not want to die; I am being forced to die. So how to escape from this position?" That is happiness.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not cheater. The Kṛṣṇa's energy is so powerful that anyone who is a cheater, he will be cheated, that's all, automatically. (break) If you infect some disease, you'll have to suffer, automatically. It is not that the disease has to be injected. No. Because you have infected, you'll suffer. The same law is there. You have done this sinful. You'll suffer that. That is the cycle of birth and death. You have created mentality. You'll become the same animal, and you suffer. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). (break) ...we have. We have seen this cloud, extraordinary.
Devotee (2): They can also...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The horn. The horn.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Karmī is also working and bhakta is also working. Then what is the difference?
Hari-śauri: One is working for his own sense satisfaction and the other is working for the sense satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (2): Mentality?
Devotee (3): The devotee is peaceful, ever peaceful.
Prabhupāda: Karmī.... Just like, I began this Kṛṣṇa consciousness business with forty rupees, eh, in New York. Now, say within eight or ten years we have got forty crores. What is the karmī who started his business with forty rupees and within ten years, eight years, has got forty crores?
Devotee (3): Therefore the difference is the karmī's not successful.
Prabhupāda: A bhakta is never unsuccessful.
Devotee (2): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmī.... Just like this house you have got. For a karmī to invest so much money, it will takes fifty years. We got this by donation. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: ...you say everything is created, he is created, this rascal who is saying there is no creator, he's also created. So where he gets this idea, there is no creator?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His mentality is that of an animal. So less intelligent.
Prabhupāda: Animal also knows that he's created by another dog. Otherwise why the little, what is called, cab, puppy, goes up to the mother?
Rāmeśvara: They don't have..., the reason they don't have an idea is because before you came to America, the understanding of the science of God was presented on a kindergarten level, the Bible. So it did not satisfy their scientific mind. So because before you came to give them the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, they had not information, and they did not accept the Christian version.
Prabhupāda: No, apart from Christian or Hindu, the general mass of people, how they can say that there is no creator? From common sense?
Rāmeśvara: They are accepting authority, and so they say...
Prabhupāda: Apart from authority, from practical experience....
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are fools.
Prabhupāda: ...how one can...? Eh?
Ṛṣabhadeva: They are trying to avoid their responsibility to that creator. They don't want to accept.
Prabhupāda: You can avoid the creator, but you cannot say there is no creator.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I think, that's one..., there's one disadvantage is that they have a little bit of a, their attitude is a little bit separatist from ISKCON in the sense of keeping aloof, and if the girls go there and live there, they may develop that same mentality. It might be better for her to come to the temples to teach.
Prabhupāda: Then make arrangement; I have not objection.
Rāmeśvara: (laughs) She has objection. We can't force her.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the problem. And if that's her feeling, then if you send people there they'll get the same.
Prabhupāda: (break) Worshiping Deity.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, they're doing that beautifully, and they're expert cooks. They're very good devotees.
Rāmeśvara: They could just be so valuable to helping our temples if they agreed to preach to our devotees. They could train. (break) ...brought the reporters from Time magazine over to see our temple. I had Mother Yamunā prepare some prasādam, and she was also serving them, and then she was explaining about prasādam and preaching. So I could understand that as long as she stays on that farm, she's limiting herself, because she's an excellent preacher. She could be very valuable, expert preacher. In her.... Their idea is that they would like to make their farm a little bigger, with more women living with them.
Prabhupāda: I like that idea.
Prabhupāda: Or they should be separated. Otherwise, it will be bad example, and all restrictions will be broken.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they don't change their mentality, then they should live separately, do their own society.
Prabhupāda: And they'll do that. (japa) That sahajiyā tendency is very easy to take up.
Hari-śauri: It seems like it's an inherent thing in...
Prabhupāda: Thinking of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā, that is in liberated stage, not in the conditioned stage.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I could never understand, Śrīla Prabhupāda, why, I was always wondering why in all of your books you're always blasting so much time on the sahajiyās, and I was not.... Now I see why, because the tendency is so easy. I could never, I'd always think, "Why is Prabhupāda saying so much? Because they're only in India."
Rāmeśvara: He's thinking that this is a small group.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in India, but now I see it's an easy mentality for anyone's mind that can be adopted. That's why Prabhupāda was stressing.
Rāmeśvara: And as our movement gets more and more members, there will be more and more people who will be exhibiting this sahajiyā tendency.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why it's in every book Prabhupāda speaks about it without fail.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, keep your movement very pure. You don't mind if somebody goes away. Don't mind. But we must keep our principles pure.
Prabhupāda: An animal is not jurisdiction of Yamarāja. The man is in the jurisdiction of.... Just like law is meant for man, not for the cats and dogs.
Rāmeśvara: So what determines the different varieties of dogs and cats if they are just automatically being...?
Prabhupāda: Not automatically. You are man. If you develop a dog's mentality, the Yamarāja puts you in the dog's body. And then you again develop, come to the man's body. That means your term of imprisonment finished. You become again man. Now again decide. And again if you become a dog's mentality, again go. This is going on.
Rādhāvallabha: The different varieties of suffering within the animal species are due to the different varieties of sinful activities in the human life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they, then they automatically come. Just as your term of imprisonment, by day's gone, it is finished, again you are free. Similarly, by natural development from dogs or cockroaches or from this or that, there is a process of development. You come to the human form of body. Then again you decide whether you go down or you go back to home, back to Godhead. That is your choice. If you want to go down, go again. Otherwise, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), come here. So make your choice.
Prabhupāda: Varieties of the body, according to the mentality.
Bharadvāja: According to karma?
Prabhupāda: Yes, according to karma at the time of death, mind is saturated in that way, and he gets a body, that's all.
Mahendra: And then, after, say if a human being falls down into the animal species, after that, does he go through each and every one of these species successively? Even there are different types of dogs, he becomes each different type of dog?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, oh, yes. That is Darwin's gradual evolution.
Mahendra: Except this is evolution of consciousness, growing bigger.
Prabhupāda: Darwin has captured that portion, how the body is changing one after another.
Prabhupāda: So instead of becoming devotee, he wants to become God. And that is the problem. But it is the most confidential part of knowledge. Instead of carrying out the orders of God, he wants to order God. You see? Even in the lower stages of devotion, that mentality continues, that "God is order-supplier. If God carries my order, then I accept God. Otherwise I reject Him." In Germany... One of my German Godbrothers, he told me in 1935 that in the last world war, many people became atheists. They went to the church and prayed, especially women, "My husband may come back," "My brother may come back," or "My father may come back." Because all men went to the war field, and the women were there, they prayed in the churches. But nobody came back, and they became atheists. That means they took God as order-supplier. They ordered God, "Return my father. Return my brother. Return my husband," and God did not return. "Ah, there is no God. I don't care." This is going on. God is order-supplier. But our philosophy is God is not order-supplier; we are order-carriers of God. Anukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśilanaṁ bhaktir uttamā (CC Madhya 19.167). Just like Arjuna became. He became carrier of order of Kṛṣṇa. He did not like to fight, to kill the family members, but when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants it, then he..., "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). Find out this verse, naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labhdā tvat-prasādān madhusūdanaḥ.
Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.
Kathy Kerr: Do you advocate then that one deny the body? Like comforts and so forth, in order to...
Prabhupāda: No, why deny the body? Just like you are putting some type of dress. So dress is not unimportant. But real importance is you, the person. So where is that education about the real person? They are simply engrossed with the dress. This is going on. Such kind of mentality is there even within the cats and dogs. He's also thinking "I am this body." If a human being does not understand this fact, that he is not this body, he is changing his body, but he is spirit soul, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. We do not want to keep the human society in the category of cats and dogs. We want to raise them to the real understanding of his identification. That is our mission. It is neither Hindu religion or Muslim religion or.... This is science.
Prabhupāda: The beginning is to understand this transmigration. But actually people do not understand. Cycle of birth and death, if one does not understand what is birth and death, what he'll understand of cycle of birth and death? Mostly because they do not understand what is birth and what is death, they are mostly going on on the bodily concept of life. That is animal life. Ask anybody. Bodily concept. And everything is going on. We pass through Canada to USA. Why Canada? Why USA? This bodily concept. It is meant for the Canadians, it is meant for USA, Americans. Immigration, customs, the same mentality as a dog coming from other neighborhood. The other dogs, they all come together, "Yow, yow, why you have come, why you have come?" In civilized dress only. This is the position. What is the difference between the dog's mentality... When another dog comes to another neighborhood, these neighborhood dogs, you know that? All animals: "Yow, why you have come?" So this department, "Why you have come here?" dogs barking, and this immigration, what is the difference? Is there any difference? This is our policy. Very difficult. (break) ...they will understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Their mentality is not better than the animals.
Prabhupāda: This is not wanted. He is spirit. He has nothing to do with this material world, but he wanted it. Or the real thing is that he wanted to enjoy by becoming the master. He is servant... Sometimes servants desire it that "Why I become servant? Why not master?" That is natural. But the natural position is he is servant. If he remains servant of Kṛṣṇa, then he's happy always. But because he desired to become master, so he cannot become master in the spiritual world, because in the spiritual world the master is one. So he is given the chance, "All right, go to the material world and become a master." But that is a falldown. So he's trying struggle for existence, and everyone is trying to become master. Even one is in this spiritual knowledge that "I am spirit soul," still he's trying to become master. That is Māyāvāda. They have understood that "I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but I am the supreme Brahman." The same disease is there—master. Therefore they are condemned, arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam tataḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because the mentality to remain master is continuing, even they are in the Brahman, merge into the Brahman, the mastership mentality is there; therefore he falls down again. Because mastership exhibition can be done in this material world. So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there. But in the void, simply spiritual light, he cannot do any mastership; therefore again falls down in this false world, and he wants to be by becoming a leader of hospital, and school, college, a Christian missionary. And our Vivekananda also imitated that. So this, this is the material disease. He is actually servant, but he wants to become master. That is the defect. So he has to give up this mentality, mastership, then he'll be making real progress. Sarāopadhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam, that "I am not master, I am servant." When he's fixed up on this platform, then he's liberated. Or in other words, when he feels pleasure, transcendental pleasure, remaining the servant, that is liberation. But as soon as he continues the mentality that "I want to be master," then he's in the māyā. That mentality he has to give up. Or he has to understand that "I'm not master; I am servant." That is liberation.
Prabhupāda: Even in the stool, the worms in the stool, he's also thinking "I have got so much stool to eat." This same mastership. "I am the monarch of all I survey. I have got so much stool." And you just take the worm from the stool, put it here: "No, no, no, here is my enjoyment." This mastership mentality is there in Brahma, and the mastership mentality is there in the worm of the stool. This mentality you have to give up. Then you become liberated. That is liberation. The bondage is that mastership mentality. He's servant, but he's thinking falsely that he's master. Just like your President Nixon. He thought that "Now I have become master of America, I'm president." He forgot that he's servant. As soon as the people wanted, dragged him down. That he forgot, that "I'm servant of the people." So everyone is servant, but falsely thinking "I'm master." That is material disease. The best thing is that if I have to remain servant, why not become servant of Kṛṣṇa? That's all. That is perfection. That is perfect life. Even by becoming a false master of the whole American country, I was not happy, I am now dragged down as a common man, Mr. Nixon, then what is the use of becoming master? It is all false. Let me become servant of Kṛṣṇa; then it is perfect. Instead of becoming a false master of the American country, let me be a real servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is liberty, liberated.
Prabhupāda: That is material desire, how to become master. From different types, he's trying to become master. Just like in the morning the dogs are barking. He's also master, thinking "Why you are coming here?" Whatever little power he's got, he's asserting his mastership: "Don't come here." The same mentality. Then?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The best change can be effected only by hearing from authoritative sources. The best example is here."
Prabhupāda: This is the authoritative source, that you are not master, you are servant. Cultivate this knowledge. Don't try to become a master, falsely. That will never be successful. Remain servant of Kṛṣṇa, you'll be happy. That is the business of spiritual master. He gives the right information; therefore he is respected so much, because he does not cheat. "You can become master, even God you can become"—this is cheating. The real spiritual master says that "You can never become master. You are always servant." And therefore he's worshiped. He gives the right information. Therefore he is honored so, because he does not cheat. The so-called spiritual master is cheating, that "You take this mantra and give me some money and you become God." This cheating is going on. Spiritual master is to be worshiped. Why? Because he does not cheat. He gives the right information. That is his credit.
Prabhupāda: Why do they not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because their mentality is very abominable.
Prabhupāda: Do that. There are so many overpopulation, and you can do it in America. So much land lying vacant here.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Better to put the people in factories in the fields. If they are going to work, let them work growing grain and milking the cows.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then they will live very happily. That will not do. Jagato 'hitāḥ. Read it.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ
Prabhupāda: Kṣayāya, kṣayāya means all for ruination, bringing ruin, ruination. So save them from ruination. Actually I've seen in New York, some quarter so nasty. In London also, so nasty. Disaster. So many storefront, lying vacant houses. I was, when I had no business, I was loitering to see the city. Hellish condition. They said it was risky, but I did not know that it was risky. One electrician, he was my friend, "Oh, Swamiji, you are going in those quarters? It is not for you, don't." "Oh, I do not care. What I have got they will take from me?" So I was loitering in New York City. So many nasty quarters. London also. So many houses vacant.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna:
- kāmam āśritya duṣpūram
- dambha-māna-madānvitāḥ
- mohād gṛhītvāsad-grāhān
- pravartante 'śuci-vratāḥ
"The demoniac, taking shelter of insatiable lust, pride and false prestige, and being thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent." Purport. "The demoniac mentality is described here. The demons' lust is never satiated. They will go on increasing and increasing their insatiable desires for material enjoyment. Although they are always full of anxieties on account of accepting nonpermanent things, they still continue to engage in such activities out of illusion. They have no knowledge and cannot tell that they are heading the wrong way. Accepting nonpermanent things, such demoniac people create their own God, create their own hymns, and chant accordingly. The result is that they become more and more attracted to two things—sex enjoyment and accumulation of material wealth. The word aśuci-vratāḥ, 'unclean vow,' is very significant in this connection. Such demoniac people are only attracted by wine, women, gambling and meat-eating; those are their aśuci, unclean habits. Induced by pride and false prestige, they create some principles of religion which are not approved by the Vedic injunctions. Although such demoniac people are most abominable in the world, still, by artificial means, the world creates a false honor for them. Although they are gliding toward hell, they consider themselves very much advanced."
Prabhupāda: There are so many religious systems: "Yes, you can do whatever you like, you can eat whatever you like," and still it is religion. This is demoniac. That will be explained further. Huh? Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janā (BG 16.7). No, not in the beginning.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (4): Why does the demoniac mentality, that they feel happy if they see someone else in distress?
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are demons. That is demonic mentality. They are happy when others are unhappy. And when others are happy, they are unhappy. That is demon.
Devotee (5): They are thinking "I am not so happy, but these others, they are suffering more, so therefore I am okay."
Prabhupāda: No. This is general demonic feeling. If you are unhappy, then I am happy. And if you are happy, then I am unhappy.
Kulādri: The devotee is described as para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. He's only distressed in seeing the distress of others.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song is there, para-duḥkhe sukhi. That is natural.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purport. "The demoniac accept that the enjoyment of the senses is the ultimate goal of life, and this concept they maintain until death. They do not believe in life after death, and they do not believe that one takes on different types of bodies according to one's karma, or activities in this world. Their plans for life are never finished, and they go on preparing plan after plan, all of which are never finished. We have personal experience of a person of such demoniac mentality, who, even at the point of death, was requesting the physician to prolong his life for four years more because his plans were not yet complete. Such foolish people do not know that a physician cannot prolong life even for a moment. When the notice is there, there is no consideration of the man's desire. The laws of nature do not allow a second beyond what one is destined to enjoy. The demoniac person, who has no faith in God or the Supersoul within himself, performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for sense gratification. He does not know that there is a witness sitting within his heart. The Supersoul is observing the activities of the individual soul. As it is stated in the Vedic literature, the Upaniṣads, there are two birds sitting in one tree; the one is acting and enjoying or suffering the fruits of the branches, and the other is witnessing. But one who is demoniac has no knowledge of Vedic scripture, nor has he any faith; therefore he feels free to do anything for sense enjoyment, regardless of the consequences."
Prabhupāda: Now discuss any points.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now this experiment, another interpretation of these material scientists is that they claim that this experiment disproved the vital theory. But on other hand, actually, the opposite is true, that he proved that there is a vital theory, rather, that spirit must be there. That was actually proved by this experiment also. But the mentality of these scientists are so demoniac that they twist the truth around... (break) RNA is a big molecule and that is actually transferred from this DNA molecule. DNA molecule, they call it the master molecule from which everything comes, all the molecules. Now if we see this carefully, we can see at every step that there is a specific direction and information without which this whole machinery will break down.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Find out this verse. Vedaiś ca sarvair... So "If you want to acquire knowledge how these molecules are working, so you must know it is coming from Me, the direction is coming from Me." You are waiting, wherefrom this direction is coming. Kṛṣṇa says "This direction is coming from Me." Mattaḥ, "from Me." Then the Absolute Truth, it is recognized.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is thinking that "I am American." So if a human being is thinking "I am American," "Indian," or something like that, and if a dog is thinking "I am dog," then where is the difference between the mentalities?
Dr. Sukla: Of course, both, perhaps, are victim of some kind of illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is illusion. That we are trying to describe. But this is going on. As the dog is thinking, "I am dog," the human being is also thinking that "I am American," "I am Indian," or...
Dr. Sukla: Then, perhaps, there is no difference.
Prabhupāda: No difference. That is described in the śāstra. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is made of... Everyone knows what is the composition: the bones, the flesh, the blood, the urine, the stool and so on, so on. The body, what is the composition? This is the composition. So if I identify with these bones, flesh, blood, muscle, veins, and stool, urine, so I am a living entity, I am all these bones and flesh and blood?
Prabhupāda: Just see, how nonsense they are, misleading people, making them atheist, Godless. Great dangerous, the so-called scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that mentality has to be changed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if even two, three, points we can prove that they're all rascals, then they will change. Simply cheating people and take high salary. This is common sense. Suppose in the laboratory you make one living being. So what is credit to them? The living entities are coming, many millions...
Devotee: (2): You gave the story about the dog...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): ...barking?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): And the man he is imitating the dog barking...
Prabhupāda: And he'll sell ticket. That "I shall bark like the dog." And people will come, "Oh, let us see." This is going on. What is the credit to bark like a dog? There are so many dogs barking, but people are so fool they'll go and purchase the ticket, "How this man barks like a dog." This is cheating. That is the qualification of conditioned soul, he can very scientifically cheat. This is cheating, "I can bark like dog."
Prabhupāda: This is a spiritual movement, and at the present moment people are more interested with material improvement, but our real interest is... Not only our, every human being's interest should be for spiritual upliftment. Just like our body is there, and within the body I am the spirit soul, also I am there. So we are taking care of the body but not of the spirit soul. So the nature's law is that a spirit soul, changing in different position of the body, as we experience in this life, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, after giving up this body, we'll have to accept another body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. We do not know what kind of body we are going to accept according to our activities and mentality. At the time of death the mentality will ascertain what kind of body we are going to get next. So these things are completely not discussed, neither they have any knowledge. So at the present moment the human civilization is a very risky civilization, so in order to save them from this state of ignorance, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. It is not a sectarian religious movement, faith or sentiment. It is actually scientific movement. Here are many scientists present. They are also taking very seriously about this movement. So we invite all important men to contact us and try to understand the basic principle of this movement, how to elevate the human society to the proper standard of life and become peaceful in this life as well as in the next life.
Prabhupāda: Talk of the present, when you are existing.
Devotee (1): Yes. Their mentality forces them to believe only what they see.
Prabhupāda: You see there is father and mother. Why don't you believe that there must be a father and mother for the whole cosmic? You see everywhere there is father and mother.
Devotee (1): But they don't accept that as God's arrangement.
Prabhupāda: That means a crazy fellow. They manufacture their own idea. There is no reason.
Rāmeśvara: They say within the father and mother is the cosmic energy of life.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we find the father and mother for begetting children. So as there are so many children... And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). They are all children, but their mother is the earth. There must be father.
Prabhupāda: That is the best qualification. If he becomes disinterested with these so-called modern civilized activities, that is the perfection of life. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). Bhakti means the more you become God conscious, you become disinterested with these material activities. And that is needed, because material activities means you are wasting our time. What is the value of animal life? It is risky. If we become like animal, then we'll become animal next birth. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, the mind's position will give me another body. That is nature's law. That you do not know. There is no education how the body is being transferred, how the soul is transferred to different bodies. And there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and at the time of death, according to our mentality, we have to accept by nature's law a type of body which may not be human body. That we do not know. There is no education. The people are kept in darkness about the laws of nature. That is a very risky civilization.
Prabhupāda: One has to realize that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, and the spirit soul is within the body, and after annihilation of this body, the spirit soul is transferred to another body. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. And we have to transmigrate to any one of these forms. So today I am in American body or Indian body, very comfortably situated, but at the time of death my particular mentality will transfer me to a particular type of body. Exactly like if a man infects some contagious disease he has to develop that disease. It is very subtle material laws. So similarly, we are composed of gross body and subtle body. The gross body is made of this earth, water, air, fire, ether, like this. And the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. And the spirit soul is within that outward gross and subtle bodies. When the gross body is annihilated, the subtle body, mind, carries the soul to a similar body as he was thinking at the time of death. It is, example is given... Just like the flavor of a rose garden is carried by the air or the bad odor of a filthy place is also carried by the air, similarly, mind, intelligence carries me to a particular type of body as I was absorbed in thought at the time of death.
Prabhupāda: Indian mentality is that "If we see one saintly person and offer obeisances, we get some blessing for our material..."
Hari-śauri: They're very selfish.
Jayatīrtha: In this way, I don't think they really appreciate your...
Prabhupāda: Āśīrvāda, āśīrvāda.
Jayatīrtha: Last night, one man came with his family. They wanted to have your darśana. I said, "Prabhupāda is in bed. He's resting." He was insisting, he said, "I do not want to hear him speak, I simply want to see him." I said, "He's in bed. You can't go into his bedroom. How is it possible?" "No, that is all right. I will just go in, and I will see him." (laughter) I said, "What is this? Get out."
Hari-śauri: I remember when we left Bombay, you'd been giving darśana for four and a half hours on the roof.
Prabhupāda: What is the water there?
Bhagavān: Oh, yes, we have our own water.
Prabhupāda: Creek water?
Bhagavān: Underground. It's very nice. Very tasty and light. It's not heavy water.
Prabhupāda: Misunderstanding. The whole civilization, the modern civilization, is going on misunderstanding. Dehātma-buddhiḥ —just like cats and dogs. Suppose if you become very proud, "I am Englishman. Why you have come here?" As the dogs bark, "Row! Row! Why you have come?" So where is the difference? What is the difference? He's thinking "I am dog," you are thinking "Englishman," I am thinking "Indian." There is no difference. So if we keep people in darkness of dog's mentality, and declare we are advanced in civilization, most misguiding.
Mike Robinson: I see. And so when people are taught, they will then understand. But what I'd also like to know, how would it affect the way they live? In sort of purely..., the way they go about their life.
Prabhupāda: You see they are living, these boys are living. It is not very difficult. They are not dying, they are living.
Mike Robinson: Yes, I accept that completely, but I want to know what differences, if you could tell me basically, what difference it makes to their life.
Prabhupāda: Difference is that if you accept this mode of life, it is very simplified, and no botheration, and you make your spiritual progress very easily. If you take otherwise, then it is difficult.
Prabhupāda: Maybe. Nowadays people are not interested in cultural societies. They are simply for belly. How to earn money, that's all. Śūdra mentality. The brāhmaṇa mentality is gone. In America also. People are not joining cultural classes of philosophy. Hayagrīva said that he has no job because nobody's taking English as literary study. Nobody's interested. They are taking to technology.
Bhūgarbha: Science.
Prabhupāda: Science means how to make the motorcar wheel, that's all. This is their science.
Bhūgarbha: In America, the professors complain to us. When we try to sell them personal books, they should take books themselves, they say that the salary of a college professor in America is the same as the salary of a waiter in some hotel. That is the respect they are given.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes they are called churchmouse. Churchmouse. A mouse in the church, what he'll eat? He's in a householder's place, a mouse is there, he can eat something. But church, nobody's eating there. Simply dust, that's all. (laughter) Churchmouse. Any new mail?
Prabhupāda: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Mahārāja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe. So that is the material disease. Actually, master is one, Kṛṣṇa. There cannot be two masters. There is only one master, that is Kṛṣṇa, or God. But in the material world, because we have forgotten the real master, every one of us is trying to become master. This is material disease. Not only in one life, but life after life. The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation. And the difficulty is that we cannot become master, but on account of our false ambition that "I shall become master," we are becoming servants of material nature. We are acting in a certain way to become master, creating a situation, mentality, and at the time of death, when this body finishes, the mind absorbed in that mastership idea takes me to another body according to my ambition, so I become again manifest in different body to exhibit my mastership.
Prabhupāda: You can ask him to open that book. Then read it. (translation read in French) So what is the difficulty in understanding? Ask him. This is military. Kṛṣṇa is asking that "You are in the battlefield. Wherefrom you got this cowardice mentality?" This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā teaches how to become a brave hero in the battlefield. This is the instruction. Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame sam. Just read the purport. Is there any purport? (purport read in French) (break) ...difficulty to understand.
Translator: He finds it very admirable that from a small verse you are able to always find something new and wonderful to say about it. And he say you go from verse to verse, and the complexity of what you explain is always new and wonderful to read. So he's very admiring of the book.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: The dog is also thinking. From three miles he begins to bark, "Why you are coming here? Don't come here. I am protecting my interest." That mentality is there in the dog, so how you are greater than the dog?
Nava-yauvana: But the devotee is thinking that the proprietor is protecting his interest.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, that kind of interest is felt by the dog. It is not very astonishing thing. In that mentality you cannot bring in unity. That is not possible.
Dayānanda: But they accept that there is some good quality in humanity, they say that that is inherent in humanity, that we need to worship.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that good quality is God consciousness. So unless humanity comes to the position of God consciousness, unless he thinks that everything belongs to God, there is no question of humanity. That is "dognity," doggish mentality. Humanity means that he understands that everything belongs to God, I am servant of God. That is humanity. Otherwise, there is no question of humanity. If you think like dog, where is humanity?
Hari-śauri: They get a bit confused because God has to... Like that man last night was saying not even a blade of grass can move without God's sanction. So they think because God sanctions...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is so many times explained. Just like a child wants to do something. The father says, "Don't do it," I have said several times. Reluctantly, "All right, do it." I have given this example of my practical experience in 1925 or '26 when my son was two years old. There was a table fan, "I would like to touch it." And I said, "No, no, don't touch." This is child. So but it's a child. He again tried to touch it. So there was a friend, he said, "Just slow the speed and let him touch." So I did it, slowed the speed and he touched-tung! Then he would not touch. You see. So this sanction was given, "Touch it," reluctantly. Now when he gets experience and I ask him, "Touch again?" "No." So this sanction. All of us who have come to this material world, it is like that. Reluctantly. Therefore God comes again to inform these rascals that "Now you have tried so much, better give up this, come to Me again." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Sanction was given, certainly, and he has experience, very bitter, but still he won't... This is obstinacy. Dog's mentality. The father has come personally. Now we have experimented everything—karma, jñāna, yoga, this, that, all nonsense.
Prabhupāda: You can find him, that is not difficult, but what is his mentality. Why he has gone to Rādhā-kuṇḍa if he was teaching here? You cannot rely upon him. When he'll go (indistinct). Rādhā-kuṇḍa, Rādhārāṇī's place, if anyone thinks that it is very easy to remain in Rādhā-kuṇḍa, the topmost place. Rūpa Gosvāmī has spoken—he must speak about Rādhā-kuṇḍa. But what he has spoken about other things?
- atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca
- prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ
- jana-saṅgaś ca laulyaṁ ca
- ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati
- (NOI 2)
So Rādhā-kuṇḍa, who will live Rādhā-kuṇḍa? One is topmost devotee, and if he mixes with third-class devotee, how he is fit for living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa? There is no difference between Rādhā-kuṇḍa and Rādhārāṇī. So how you can jump over Rādhārāṇī? Rādhā-kuṇḍa and Rādhārāṇī nondifferent. How you can enjoy Rādhā-kuṇḍa by swimming? You cannot touch with your feet even Rādhā-kuṇḍa. You can take little water and keep it on the head. That is respectful to Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Of course, things are going on like that, but strictly speaking, Rādhā-kuṇḍa should be respected as Rādhārāṇī herself. That is Rādhā-kuṇḍa consciousness. Highest Rādhā-kuṇḍa consciousness. And if you want to live in Rādhā-kuṇḍa, then why he has taken four thousand rupees from Girirāja?
Akṣayānanda: A lot of devotees think... They come here... Therefore work is not necessary. Simply chanting and being in Vṛndāvana is nice. That's wrong.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Chanting, but there is expenditure. Who will collect this twenty-five thousand? It is increasing. I can maintain them provided they are actually serious about making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that some lazy fellow will come, and because he has come to Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa-candra has become very much obliged to him. Kṛṣṇa-candra had no other friend. He has come from somebody. That mentality should be curtailed.
Harikeśa: What if he comes with money to pay for himself.
Prabhupāda: Is there a guest house? Stay. There is no harm. There is guest house, he can pay and stay. But here we shall keep only minimum number of men without whom we cannot make, manage it. That's all.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, how it is possible? Who will bring twenty-five thousand per month? I'm surprised. Twenty-five... (Hindi)
Akṣayānanda: It's much more. Sometimes thirty.
Prabhupāda: So this must be stopped immediately. We cannot pay more than five thousand. You stop. We cannot pay. (Hindi) My Guru Mahārāja used to say, (Bengali) "Joint mess." This is not possible. That we have to maintain a big bundle of burden. What is this?
Indian man: (laughs) He's here to hound us. (laughs) (Hindi) (reading from paper) "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is here to save us from a dog's life." (laughter) "He's here to save us from a dog's life. For unless we can get some spiritual knowledge, warns His Divine Grace, we are left with a dog mentality."
Hari-śauri: This was the New York Ratha-yātrā. This was in New York Times.
Indian man: The Ratha-yātrā is held on 7th Avenue... (several talking at once)
Prabhupāda: They admitted: "This is the East and West meeting."
Hari-śauri: "Fifth Avenue: Where East Meets West."
Indian man: "Where East Meets West." Ah.
Hari-śauri: And this one is in South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Last year we introduced Ratha-yātrā in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone, government official, police, public, all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our procession was how many miles?
Hari-śauri: Once a woman was married, then that was finished. No connection with another man.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That one marriage is sufficient. She must remain very faithful to her husband, chaste. That is wanted. Not that "I do not like this husband. I'll change." That is not wanted.
Hari-śauri: That's Western mentality.
Prabhupāda: Whatever your father and mother has chosen, that's all. He's your worshipable husband. This is the... This point I wanted to bring. And her father was surprised. "How is that? I got you married with an old man? Somehow or other, circumstances I was obliged. How is that you have picked up one young man?" He chastised her like anything. Then when he came to understand that the same old man has become now young man by medical treatment, then he was satisfied. So you cannot change. I have seen it. One, my father's friend, he was very old man. My father was also... He was at that time not less than sixty-five. But his wife died, and he was married with another young girl. But his sister forced him to marry. That "Unless you marry, who will look after you? You have no children." But I have seen that young woman who was married with that gentleman... In our childhood we used to called her didi. Didi means elder sister. So the relationship was very thick and thin. But that old man, not less than sixty-five, and this young woman, utmost twenty to twenty-five. She was serving the husband like anything. We have seen it. There is no question of changing or being dissatisfied.
Prabhupāda: Here they never satisfied. This is the modern mentality. Nobody is satisfied with his income. He wants more money. And for that purpose he can do anything rascal. I have seen it. This peon puts his bag without any responsibility. Letters are strewn and maybe some letters stolen. Who can say? And he came to earn some money. For some time he'll compose and get some labor. And in Calcutta I have seen all the office peons, they are sleeping in Dalhousie Square, the peon book as the pillow, for hours together. And when they, after distributing, when they return to the office it is going to be closed. And if they are asked explanation, "Why you are so late?" "Oh, he was not there. I had to wait three hours," and so on, so on, so on. Everyone is dishonest. Nobody is working honestly. Especially in India, because poverty-stricken. If they can sleep two hours he thinks that he has made some profit. Formerly people were God conscious. They did not like to cheat, that "God will be displeased." Now they don't believe in God, so they can do anything.
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect that everyone is brāhmaṇa. No. He has got śūdra mentality, so let him till the ground for Kṛṣṇa. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. He is fit for tilling so let him till and produce grain for Kṛṣṇa.
Jagadīśa: Hyderabad?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hard work. He should be given hard work. This gurukula is for high, high class brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, not for the vaiśyas and śūdras. (man laughs in background) No, everyone is required for Kṛṣṇa's service, but there... That I was describing today. There must be division. Don't put horse before a cart.
Pradyumna: Race horse before the cart.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pradyumna: Race horse before the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that will not be nice.
Bhagatji: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Vaiśya is meant for kṛṣi.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Girirāja: Of course that is our business to construct temples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple (indistinct). Temple means preaching center. This Gurukula I have made for temple (indistinct) center. Now they have made it but that (indistinct). Purpose is, that whole world in the neophyte stage, they will (indistinct), man-manā bhava mad..., think of Kṛṣṇa, offering obeisances, offer (indistinct) from the persons maintaining the temple (indistinct). Therefore they do not like that a temple should be constructed, it is waste of... (indistinct) ...must be engaged to work hard, produce money and enjoy sense gratification. Hog civilization. We are restricting that "Don't work hard like hog and dog or animals, just satisfy your minimal necessities of life, save time and (indistinct) spiritual understanding. This is our mission. Their mission is, "What is this nonsense, spiritual understanding? Simply some sentiment, waste of time. Produce, enjoy, invent so many things for sense gratification." Western civilization. And this is very attractive to the rākṣasa class. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. This is the rākṣasa mentality. As soon as there is television, or similar invention, they become very much enthused. They purchase and sitting down, they waste their time. I have seen in America the old man of family, one dog, one television, simply wasting time. And 50 cents for eat. How they are wasting the valuable human life. How they are kept in the darkness. This is life. I have seen television. All some fictitious stories. Here, trained position. They have manufactured one big hammer and training strongly and these rogues they are sending their hammer to train and as soon as the hammer... smashed. They want to see. One man kept ferocious dogs and one girl (indistinct) the dog is chasing and the girl is screaming (indistinct) so many (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Rape, the same thing. And the human life is (indistinct). This was going on. The water, the ducks, water on the (indistinct), the ducks are going on and little (indistinct) is going on. The same (indistinct) but in different way. The (indistinct) is the same, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). But according to the mentality, he is getting different body but the business is the same. Adānta-gobhir, unrestrained senses. Simply sense enjoyment. The duck is also doing this, the ant is doing this, the fly is doing this, the mosquito is doing this, the man is doing this, animal is doing this, sense enjoyment. (rest of tape very indistinct) (end)
Prabhupāda: They will wait four hours, five hours, standing. Why cinema? I have seen in London the British Museum. Something came there. From morning there is a queue. Exactly like that, they were standing to go and see the museum. Something came. I... Three, four years ago I saw. They were standing. Just like here. For purchasing the cinema ticket they are standing and eating nampalli, just to see, eyesight. They will not come to see Deity in the temple. They'll not come. Mentality is different. It is a very dangerous civilization, soul-killing civilization. We should be very, very careful if we want success also. We shall go now? (end)
Guest (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means "God is my servant order-supplier." Actually... This is European mentality. One, my Godbrother, German Godbrother, that Sadananda, he told me, in the last war, when the war was going on, generally women were left. All men were in the battlefield, somebody's husband, somebody's father, somebody's son. So they went to the church. They were going church. Even Churchill also recommended "Go to the church. Pray." Duḥkha se saba hari bhaje sukha se bhaje kaya. So, but nobody returned. So all of them became atheist: "Oh, it is useless to go to church. I prayed so much for my husband coming back, but he did not come. Useless." So this is the position. "I ordered God that 'My husband has gone to the war. Let him come back unharmed.' And God did not bring him back. He did not carry my order. I don't want this God." This is going on. When the war was declared, there was no consultation with God. (laughter) Rascal. That time there was no consultation. And when the husband is going to die, he goes to God. This is our position.
Prabhupāda: Our business is sai vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). First of all is mentality. Man-manā mad-bhakto. Mental cure, then physically devotee. "Always think of Me." This is the cure, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Beginning: always think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the treatment. It is proved. Mentally he'll be cured. And then physically after. Nice (indistinct). They do not know how things are happening. (japa) Thinking, feeling, willing. First of all thinking, then feeling, then willing, then working. (break) ...and spending for military strength. They are not performing yajña, so how there will be rainfall? There will be warfare, devastation. Most rubbish civilization, modern misleading, soul-killing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Very difficult to live with them. Still, we have to do this Kṛṣṇa's business. So we have to do our business. Let the dogs bark on. We don't care for it. If we remain sincere to Kṛṣṇa, that is our victory, not the result. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. We have to act according to direction of Kṛṣṇa, that much. We want to see good result. Even there is no good result, we don't mind. We must be sincere to Kṛṣṇa that "We have done our best." That's all.
Prabhupāda: Is there any purport?
Hari-śauri: "The demoniac accept that the enjoyment of the senses is the ultimate goal of life, and this concept they maintain until death. They do not believe in life after death, and they do not believe that one takes on different types of bodies according to one's karma, or activities in this world. Their plans for life are never finished, and they go on preparing plan after plan, all of which are never finished. We have personal experience of a person of such demoniac mentality..."
Prabhupāda: I am talking of that man. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Why you say, speak India or in England? The human intelligence is the same. There is no change. They have made like this: "East," "West" and "England," and... The psychology is the same. The ass is the same. The camel is the same. The dog is the same. We are talking of these dogs. Do you think that in Europe the dog is different from Indian dog? (laughs) They have created another problem. But we take: "You are all dogs. Either you be Indian or England or German, you are, after all, after dog. Your mentality is dog." They have created that "Indian dog is better than the English dog" or "English dog is better than German." What is better? It is dog. You are doglike and hankering after some job in America and amongst Europeans. The Indians are all doing that, the same education. Recently for a post of five hundred men there were three lakhs of applications. This is education. And you'll find uneducated Indian, still he's independent. You will find in Calcutta especially we have seen. Yes. In the morning they'll purchase a bag of potato.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have the demoniac mentality.
Prabhupāda: Just like mother says, "He is your father." Still, he'll not accept. Rascal number one. There is no other way. Huh? He is searching after his father. Mother says, "My dear boy, here is your father." "No, I don't believe. No." He's a rascal number one.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're obstinate.
Prabhupāda: Obstinate. That scissors philosophy. There is no other way to understand it, but he'll not accept. That is his misfortune. Mūḍha. Bokā. And our problem is that these bokās, rascals, they are leading the society. And they are suffering. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). He's blind. We are also blind. And they're leading us. What will be our consequence? And we are losing the chance of human body to understand what is spirit, what is matter, what is God. We're losing everything. Very precarious condition. These rascals will not allow to understand real thing. That is the position. Otherwise what we have got to do with these rascals? But because they are taking some position, the whole populace is misguided. Means they are losing the chance of this human body. Suicided.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Hari-śauri: "In this chapter the Lord explains that the process..." (break)
Prabhupāda: So this is sannyāsī. Sannyāsī is not the dress. This mentality, that is sannyāsa. So you have taken all prasādam? No.
Jayapatākā: Now you take rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So things are going nicely?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. (end)
Prabhupāda: That's all. Dress only.
Hari-śauri: But they have exactly the same mentality.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Business.
Hari-śauri: It's simply a way of making a livelihood.
Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Here also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some mention in the Bhāgavatam about this, that the religious men will wear only the clothes to make a profit? That people will wear religious clothing simply for making profit? Now religion is a good business. They take it like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good business.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They exploit the sentiment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When the British came here, they saw people sitting on the floor, they said, "Oh, uncivilized."
Prabhupāda: No, no. The British policy was that "If you keep the Hindus as Hindu, it will not be possible to rule over them." That was their policy. Therefore, from the very beginning childhood, everything Indian condemned.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this is the same mentality in America now. They are seeing us... Just like the gurukula, their opinion of gurukula—"Oh, children are getting up early? Forced to get up early? Forced to eat on the floor? Not being given proper diet?"
Hari-śauri: "Don't sleep on beds?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same mentality as the British had when they came here.
Prabhupāda: But India, there is no such objection.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: None at all. Rather, they like our movement. So we should concentrate a lot of our energy here.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we're the only... I think that what you are telling us is perfect in that now what we have to do is we have to vigorously explain our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: The three verses together?
Prabhupāda: No, you find out. There's so many. The mentality of the demon-crazy...
Hari-śauri: Yeah, how he's thinking. That verse that describes how he's thinking.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: "So much is mine today..."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why India's such big culture should be lost for the matter of these rascal leaders? This should be stopped. As Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma (BG 4.13). There must be ideal brāhmaṇa, ideal kṣatriya, ideal vaiśya, as Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is all-inclusive. Economic question? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Grow food. Practical. Just like when I was going to the pandals, millions of clerks were coming—"Education. Educated." And who is growing food? And they have to be provided in these pigeon holes and depend on ration. Is that civilization? And throngs of people are coming, just like machine, ants. Ants are coming. I saw like that. And go to the village side—all vacant land. Nobody's interested to produce food. Everyone is interested to live within the city, in these pigeonholes, and go to the cinema and go to the brothel, go to the club and learn how to drink, how to become gentleman. Is that civilization? Human life's aim is lost. You do not know why you are going to the office, why you are eating, why you are... Keeping them all pet animal's mentality, doggish mentality. We have explained. University education means doggish mentality. Unless he becomes a dog, there is no food. No, the dog goes...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wagging it's tail.
Guest (1): But that all has vanished now. That plan has failed now completely.
Prabhupāda: Not failed. Another man will come. Because the unemployment is there. Practically, when we were boys, children, we were purchasing mustard oil, eight annas for two-half, two-half only, kilo, first-class. In Calcutta, Kanpur mustard oil. So my father would give me eight annas. I shall go to the shop and purchase. Now that quality, even taking it..., he's now selling thirteen rupees per kilo. Will the change of government bring this thirteen rupees to three annas? Then what is the benefit? The same stool, this side or that side. People are not going to get any relief by this change of government. So we are not concerned about thirteen rupees or three annas or... Some way or other, people are getting their things. That's all right. But the real loss is to remain in animal mentality and forget the aim of life. That is the real loss. Kṛṣṇa says plainly,
- aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
- dharmasyāsya parantapa
- aprāpya māṁ nivartante
- mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani
- (BG 9.3)
"This Bhagavad-gītā what I am speaking, if one is not interested to hear it or to take it, then result will be he'll not get Me." "So what is loss if I don't get You?" No, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani: "Then go again to the cycle of birth and death." That's it. That is nature's law. If my next life I become a worm, then it will take millions of years to evolve, again come to the human standard. How I am lost. That they do not know.
Prabhupāda: There is no doubt. How we can stop educating people about Bhagavad-gītā? It is most heinous mentality, such knowledge should be hidden from the human society. And some rascal will misinterpret.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, your point yesterday was very nice that some things which are difficult, they may need explanations, but when Kṛṣṇa says, "Give it to Me," what is the question of a need of interpretation? That Radhakrishnan, immediately he gives his explanation: "It doesn't mean to Kṛṣṇa the person."
Prabhupāda: Just see. How rascal he is, and he is commenting. No, no, this is the rule, grammatical rule, that when things are clear, there is no interpretation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's an actual rule.
Prabhupāda: Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking. Caitanya said, "When the meaning is clear, why you are giving us this, nonsense?"
Prabhupāda: They are already dogs; otherwise how he is becoming dog? They have been already described. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. They are already... Therefore they are going to change it, the body. They are already cats and dogs. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). A doggish mentality, you will get a dog's body, infections. It is clear, nature's law.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This vision no one else has except... I mean no one else has it, Śrīla Prabhupāda except for you. It is there in the śāstra, but I don't think anyone else has realized it. There may be many other Vaiṣṇava ācāryas or something in India, but they are not... By the fact that they are not preaching, it means they have not realized it.
Prabhupāda: No, they realized. They have no opportunity. They wanted to preach.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they wanted to, wouldn't Kṛṣṇa have given them the opportunity?
Prabhupāda: Oh, I shall not doubt. They wrote comment.
Prabhupāda: That means ignorance, rascals. They are busy with something which is not his business. Then next question will be: then what is his business? If they actually read Bhagavad-gītā, his business is that to find out: "If I am going to change my body, what I am going to be?" Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body, after being finished, this body, I am not dead. I am going to change another body. So is it not my duty? Just like if I go somewhere, you see how that place, how it will be suitable for me, how I shall live there. Is it not duty? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I am not going to die. That, if I leave this compartment, I'm not going to die. I'll accept another compartment. But shall I not see what kind of compartment will be, whether it is better than this or inferior than this? Is it not my duty? That is my real problem. Or the actual problem is that if I am eternal, why I shall change body now and then? This is my problem. And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night. Nobody has given him charge, but he is thinking "I am in charge of the road. Why this put-put motorcar, you have come here? Go on. Go on. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" But who has given him charge? But he's starving, and people are throwing stone upon him, but he's thinking "I am in charge of this business. Why at night this car has come?" Dog mentality. Is it not exactly like the dog? He's disturbing all others—"Gow, gow! Gow, gow, gow!"—but he's thinking that "I am in charge." Is it not dog dancing, these politicians, politics? Who cares for you? Gandhi or there, he has gone.
Prabhupāda: Bhakta means he must be a servant, sakha or father or conjugal lover. They are bhaktas. There are five rasas. So a bhakta is situated in one of them: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya... That is Vṛndāvana atmosphere. So bhakta means either of them. Arjuna sākhye. By friendship Arjuna became perfect, by making Kṛṣṇa as friend. Hanumān dāsye. Vajrāṅgajī, Hanumān, he, by serving Lord Rāmacandra, the order... He was not even human being, animal, (indistinct), not very intelligent, but by giving service constantly, he worshiped with love. So as soon as you become a bhakta, you must be related with Kṛṣṇa with some rasa, in some particular position. That is bhakta. So the point is that without becoming a bhakta, nobody can understand bhakta. A politician cannot understand. They simply make their artificial attempt to understand. They'll never understand. It is locked. Just like a bottle of honey. I give you, "Here is a bottle of honey," and if you, "Oh, it is honey. Let me lick up the bottle," so will you get the taste? So similarly, they are licking up the bottle, not inside. Rahasyam uttamam. They have no information. They are licking up bottle: "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā." This is the position. For this reason our country has fallen so much. But it can be revived again. The things are already there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. The instruction is there. If you take it, then it will immediately change the face of the whole world, immediately, without difficulty. But we are so stubborn, doggish, that we don't. We manufacture. This is the... (Hindi) ...yesterday. We are standing against the stubborn, doggish mentality. We have got no difficulty, at the same time, very, very difficult task. No difficulty—if you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no difficulty. But you don't accept—there is great difficulty. In the foreign countries they are not stubborn, doggish. They accept what we say in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore these young men, they have very easily become devotees. (Hindi)
Bhagavat: I asked their advice, whether I should shave or keep the hair.
Prabhupāda: Who is that nonsense advice? Who is that rascal? "Advice." By keeping hair you become beautiful and become victimized. "Advice." This is... Without advice, this mentality is going on outside, to keep hair. We are known as shaven hair, whole society.
Hari-śauri: I've been shaving my head once every month. It's just about three weeks since I've...
Prabhupāda: Every fortnight. At least. Before going to Europe, six years ago, you were keeping hair: "I have to go to Europe." That I have seen. Everywhere. Those who... You like to keep hair. That hippie mentality is going on. That's right. That is good, very intelligent reasoning, actual, long hair by keeping...(?) Everyone is giving some advice. Gurudāsa is giving. "He's keeping. He's..." Gargamuni. Everyone has some explanation. I do not know how you can give up this hippie mentality. Hippie. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. Kali-yuga. Victim of Kali-yuga. It is... It is not yet whole, but weak men, victimized by Kali-yuga... There are so many things to victimize over the living entities in Kali-yuga, and one of the item is that he will take that "I have become very, very beautiful, attractive by keeping long hair." Keśa. That is already stated there. You are victimized by that Kali-yuga. That's all. No explaining. Our trademark is clean-shaven. We are known as shaven hair. Why you should be victimized? You are known as shaven hair. Are you not? Hm? They say that "Hare Kṛṣṇa people, shaven hair"?
Hari-śauri: Shaven-headed.
Prabhupāda: Shaven hair. So why you should be victimized by keeping hair? What victory you will gain? Conquer over the whole world, Roman Empire, by keeping hair? Hippie mentality, that's all. That is within the core of the heart. As soon as get some opportunity... Just like during summer season the field appears to be dried up. And as soon as there is some rain, oh, it is green, immediately green. So things are already there. Hm? Is it not?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now you see to the field. They're all dry. But as soon as there will be rain in the village, all green. So the seeds are there, hippie seeds. As soon as there is some opportunity, come out, green: "Yes, I am beautiful. Come on." But in the court room they never addressed. Judge never asked that "Why you are shaven-headed?" Was there any question like that?
Hari-śauri: Actually, when he first went to court, they were wondering why he had hair.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's actually a very dangerous mentality.
Yaśodā-nandana: What is it going to be in five years? It's going to be a different book.
Prabhupāda: So you... What you are going... It is very serious situation. You write one letter that "Why you have made so many changes?" And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarūpa that "This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim." The next printing should be again to the original way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They should have a board of Satsvarūpa and Jayādvaita.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those two men are both in Los Angeles now.
Prabhupāda: So write them immediately that "The rascal editors, they are doing havoc, and they are being maintained by Rāmeśvara and party."
Prabhupāda: So that change takes place according to your mentality. You are subtle thing, psychological. One man is thief. By change, he can become a saintly person. One man is saintly person; he becomes a thief. So that change, according to three qualities... Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). You cannot ascertain immediately because you are changing from sattva-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to tamo-guṇa. So how you can be ascertained? But there will be change. That is fixed. So we have to take this word change. So you cannot expect what changes. Are you going to be dog or hog or god? That will depend on your work. How you can expect to see, that "I do not see"? But that is not certain. There are 8,400,000's of different types of change of body. But you have to change. Not that you have to become a dog. You can become a demigod. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti... But change is certain. So if change takes place, then where is your position? Whatever you have done-śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's totally impossible they went to the moon.
Prabhupāda: No, they have not gone, but still, they are making such a big propaganda. What is the mentality?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheaters.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheaters, sense gratifiers.
Prabhupāda: Cheating propensity is so strong. There is cheating propensity in different way. From Brahmā it goes. That is a bad qualification. That should be finished. But they are trying to increase it. I have got some bad qualification; my business is to finish it. So what is the use of increasing it? I am a thief. I have got some habit, to steal. So shall I try to stop it or increase it? Which one is human?
Śatadhanya: To stop.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they think this life is all in all, they think better somehow or other...
Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. They are going all wrong.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are going west, but do you think where you think that the west is end, that is not end. You can go further.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it never ends because we're going around the planet.
Prabhupāda: No, that is his dog's mentality, going round. That is dog. He is thinking that "This is the area. Now I..." He's controlled by superior power, that "You cannot go." An example is... There are so many. There are so many stars, moons, and we'll go there. But he cannot go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "We accept this premise, that we are limited."
Prabhupāda: But then limited, you cannot say final.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But we say within our limited means we can understand that..."
Prabhupāda: And limited means if you understand that "I am bound up. I am going round the law," that is all right. But don't say that "Beyond this limit there is nothing."
Prabhupāda: That you can go further, but you cannot go. Therefore you are thinking, "This is end of the position." The same dog mentality. He is within that small area. He is thinking, "There is no more, other space." That example is another, that bull. His eyes are closed, and he crushes the oil mill, going. He's thinking he is going three hundred miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They keep the eyes blinded so he won't...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...understand what's going on.
Prabhupāda: Because in one place, simply going round, going round, it makes one mad. So those eyes are closed. He is thinking, "This is the end of world."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you have said that, but still you have not given the solution.
Prabhupāda: This is solution.
Prabhupāda: The interest will go to the family, not to the Deity.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not good.
Prabhupāda: Jīva Gosvāmī was brahmacārī. So he gave to a gṛhastha śiṣya to maintain Rādhā-Dāmodara. But what is the position now? Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī was also a brahmacārī. Everything depends on training and mentality. If the attention is diverted otherwise, then it is lost.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Mādhavendra Purī, he gave his Deity. Now it's again... You know, who has Govardhana Deity. Vallabhācārya's line now worships.
Prabhupāda: They gave to the Vallabhācārya. But somehow they are maintaining the status quo.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Still very opulent. They do very elaborate. That Pushti Marg group, they do very elaborate Deity worship.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, they don't preach very vigorously, but at least their Deity worship...
Prabhupāda: That is also preaching. Arcanam. One of the... If they maintain the Deity worship gorgeously, that is also preaching.
Prabhupāda: In this way we have to change their mentality.
Gurukṛpā: If they..., we make aware of the actual suffering they are causing on the animals.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Gurukṛpā:. If they are aware... They are not really aware of the actual suffering that they're causing the animals.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think the animals don't have any feelings or soul.
Prabhupāda: No, they think in so many way, nonsense rascals. What is the value of their thinking? Rascals, all number one rascals. They say, "Why do you...?" But they, how they can believe? Their whole life is belief, no factual knowledge.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How they will believe that man didn't go to the moon? When Śrīla Prabhupāda wrote that in Easy Journey, Hayagrīva took it out of the book, saying that "How will they believe this?"
Prabhupāda: Believe. "I believe." You can say also, "I believe." You can say, "I believe." Where is the standard?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Second. Second telegram.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. No. I haven't sent a second one yet. Should I do that? I could do it. It's not very costly. Two or three rupees. Might be a good precaution to take if we feel that he is needed here now.
Prabhupāda: Kavirāja's, his mentality I did not like.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: He was charging five rupees, and because we have gone to him second time, he is charging...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten. Not only ten rupees, but so much money for the medicine.
Prabhupāda: How much?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty-five rupees just for sixteen little packets, doses of medicine. Two days' medicine, fifty-five rupees. Eighty-five rupees for two days' total. No. Seventy-five rupees for two days.
Prabhupāda: We are not hesitating to pay, but this mentality...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, exactly. The point is if that a man has this mentality, then how much can we trust him for medicine? It means he's dishonest man. He's becoming dishonest. Still, some husband must be there, you said. We should have a doctor's help. I still believe that. If possible. After all, we are not doctors.
Prabhupāda: No, we are taking the help of doctor, Āyurveda, by this yogendra-rasa.
| Page Title: | Mentality (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Marc, Mayapur |
| Created: | 16 of Sep, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=143, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 143 |