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Meditation (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Laḍḍu, you prepare laḍḍu? They prepare so many things. The main ingredient is this: besan, āttā, ghee, sugar. That's all. (break) ...also they eat rice more.

Mahāmṣa: (break) ...left in Mysore.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Bengal tiger.

Acyutānanda: That's.... They've all been shot.

Prabhupāda: (break) First of all understand what is meditation. Do you understand what is meditation? Do you understand?

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is meditation?

Indian man (2): Giving all thoughts.... Coming to pure silence of the mind.

Prabhupāda: So how you can be silent? Is it possible?

Indian man (2): No, just by some sādhana.

Prabhupāda: Silent is also.... (dog barking) The stones are silent. Does it mean meditation?

Indian man (2): But mind cannot be silent. The mind must be made to (indistinct).

Harikeśa: Hut!

Prabhupāda: So then how you can make silent?

Indian man (2): By seeing God in everything.

Prabhupāda: Meditation is not silence. That is wrong idea. Meditation means to think of God. That is meditation.

Indian man (2): Brahma-bhāvana.

Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhāvana is also not practical. Parabrahma-bhāvana, kṛṣṇa-bhāvana. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Indian man (2): Supreme Lord.

Prabhupāda: That is real meditation. Meditation does not mean to make the mind vacant. No, a wrong. People are thinking like that. It cannot be. One girl—that is written—"Sir, meditation to make the mind out of all thoughts." So she said, she thought that "How can I be without thoughts? This 'without thought,' I'll think—that is a thought. Therefore it is bogus." He (she) threw away this meditation book.

Indian man (2): No, thinking about the God's thought, in course of time it will be empty. Mind will be empty.

Prabhupāda: So unless you come.... According to your idea, unless you come to that emptiness, you are not perfect. But that will never come.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Bengal tiger.

Acyutānanda: That's.... They've all been shot.

Prabhupāda: (break) First of all understand what is meditation. Do you understand what is meditation? Do you understand?

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is meditation?

Indian man (2): Giving all thoughts.... Coming to pure silence of the mind.

Prabhupāda: So how you can be silent? Is it possible?

Indian man (2): No, just by some sādhana.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: So how you can be silent? Is it possible?

Indian man (2): No, just by some sādhana.

Prabhupāda: Silent is also.... (dog barking) The stones are silent. Does it mean meditation?

Indian man (2): But mind cannot be silent. The mind must be made to (indistinct).

Harikeśa: Hut!

Prabhupāda: So then how you can make silent?

Indian man (2): By seeing God in everything.

Prabhupāda: Meditation is not silence. That is wrong idea. Meditation means to think of God. That is meditation.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhāvana is also not practical. Parabrahma-bhāvana, kṛṣṇa-bhāvana. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Indian man (2): Supreme Lord.

Prabhupāda: That is real meditation. Meditation does not mean to make the mind vacant. No, a wrong. People are thinking like that. It cannot be. One girl—that is written—"Sir, meditation to make the mind out of all thoughts." So she said, she thought that "How can I be without thoughts? This 'without thought,' I'll think—that is a thought. Therefore it is bogus." He (she) threw away this meditation book.

Indian man (2): No, thinking about the God's thought, in course of time it will be empty. Mind will be empty.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Huh. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto: "The mind should be absorbed in My thought," man-manā. That is recommended. Where does He say that "Make your mind vacant and think of nonsense"? He never says. And where does He say that you become silent? He never says.

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ
mad-bhakteṣv abhidāsyati
na ca tasmān manusyeṣu
kaścid me priya-kṛttamaḥ
(Bg 18.68)

"Anyone who speaks about this Bhagavad-gītā, he is My dearmost friend," He said. So why one should be silent? Our ultimate aim is how to become dearmost to Kṛṣṇa. And He never says that "You become silent." Why shall I become silent? Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). Rather, He recommends that "You always be engaged in glorifying Me." Where is the "silent"? These are all manufactured by these rascals. So many, meditation, silence—these are not recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. (end)

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: You were with him. You do not know? "The transcendental meditation—you will get this, you will get that." He is advertising in that...

Hari-śauri: All material opulence.

Harikeśa: Ultimately you will become God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the attempt.

Hari-śauri: And in the meantime, you can enjoy material world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: And what is Rādhākamal Mukherjee?

Bhavānanda: " 'He has been a prolific writer and commentator and has traveled and discoursed widely in different parts of India. His profound illuminative discourses have everywhere created a genuine interest in Vaiṣṇava philosophy and in the dynamic religious movement he represents.' There may not be any doubt among the well-informed people that the Śrī Caitanya Maṭha, with its branches, Śrī Gauḍīya Maṭhas, throughout India and abroad, have been propagating the greatest religion, which, from a realistic point of view, has helped to build up a true civilization. Today, due to the activities of Śrī Caitanya Maṭha, a spiritual thirst has been created, especially among the deep-thinking and educated people of the world, for people from all over the world are coming to this institution to learn and follow the great religion of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and to understand the practical Indian way of life. Today the headquarter extends over a mile, with beautiful temples, yet standing in an atmosphere of absorbing silence of meditation and worship, surrounded on all sides by emerald green paddy fields and the Ganges flowing hard by, far from the madding crowd's strife and strain.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...in so-called transcendental meditation, go to the Himalaya and go to the forest. We are not interested in all this nonsense. Our only business is to spread Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, door to door, town to town, city to city. We are not going to seclusion. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "This is professional bluff: 'I am going to the Himalaya. I am going to the forest.' " Prahlāda Mahārāja condemns that "These are professional bluffs." Or they may be sincere, but still, they are trying for their own salvation. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am not interested in that sal... I am interested for everyone's salvation. Everyone must go back to home, back to..." That is Vaiṣṇava, not that "For my own salvation I go to Himalaya or in the forest and transcendental meditation, nonsense..." We are not interested in those things. (laughs) And our men... Just like that Gaurasundara. He is doing all nonsense, transcendental meditation. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Rascal. He is doing transcendental meditation. He got so much opportunity to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He did it in the beginning very nicely. A rascal, he became victim. These things are for ajitendriyāṇām. Those who are not able to control the senses, they make this business, transcendental meditation, and secretly doing all nonsense. The whole thing, this transcendental meditation, that, what is that, Maharishi Yogi, they are doing all nonsense and advertising, "We are transcendental meditation."

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: They openly advertise that "If you do transcendental meditation, then you can do your business better, you can have better sex life."

Prabhupāda: And that's all. So you can do your sense gratification process, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi tuccham, what is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "This kind of happiness is most abominable and insignificant." Tuccham. Tuccham means very insignificant. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is just like itching between the two hand, and after-result is misery. That's all. Iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). They know it, that after this enjoyment of itching sensation there will be so much trouble. But neha tṛpyanti: they are not satisfied. Again and again. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Begetting one child... Just see. It is going on. (children in background) No shame. That is animal. No shame. In Western countries they are learning... I have seen. In Los Angeles beach they are having sex open.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They are all in the material world, karmīs. Karma-kāṇḍa, ritualistic ceremonies. Prahlāda Mahārāja has described them. What is that very word used? And meaning is "one who cannot control their senses." Avijita-indriya. Ajitendriyāṇām, ajita, "one who could not conquer the senses," they are called karmīs. Ajitendriyāṇām. So all these penances, silence, meditation, then studying the Vedic literature, and so many things are there. Prahlāda Mahārāja, in one word he says, "They are meant for ajitendriyāṇām, one who could not conquer over the senses, for them." And for a devotee, one who is actually pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that a tiny devotee can claim that he has overcome the influence of this world. No. This is called paramahaṁsa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that because you have taken to devotional..., you have become immediately.

Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gāñjā smoking is not taken as bad in India, by the sādhus, not ordinary men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. He told me, Mr. Das, that it increased his meditation and ecstasy.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, gāñjā smoking by the sādhus, sannyāsīs, is not taken very bad serious. The hippies learned from them. Allen Ginsberg introduced... "Yes. Gāñjā smoking is very good by the saintly person."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think your Guru Mahārāja spoke strongly against such persons.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And from him we learned that intoxication, any kind of intoxication, is bad.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Satsvarūpa: "As a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. Just as any ordinary man in the West becomes conscious of Christian culture from his very birth, any ordinary man in India becomes familiar with the principles of meditation and yoga from his very birth. Unfortunately, many unscrupulous persons come from India, exhibit their imperfect and ordinary knowledge of yoga, cheat the people with their wares consisting of mantras, and present themselves as incarnations of God. So many of these cheaters have come, convincing their foolish followers to accept them as God, that those who are actually well versed and learned in Indian culture have become very concerned and troubled. For this reason I am very excited..."

Prabhupāda: Send this copy to Indira Gandhi.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Gurukṛpā: Guru Mahārāja.

Revatīnandana: Which one? There's many rascals.

Prabhupāda: That big rascal, transcendental meditation.

Madhudviṣa: Maharishi.

Prabhupāda: Maharishi. He is giving assurance, "If you practice this yoga, then you'll be very able to do your business nicely. Your..." These things are.... And he is guru.

Mahāṁśa: And he charges them a fabulous amount of money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, unless...

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "To become My devotee means you shall think of Me twenty-four hours," man-manā. Then you become a bhakta. Not that meditation—I meditate fifteen minutes and twenty-four hours thinking of something else.

Dr. Patel: Then you never, I mean, even for, it is just like you, even for a moment you slip down, just like a (indistinct). It should be perpetual conscious within yourself.

Prabhupāda: I have seen Gandhi's prayer meeting, and I attended. Utmost, five minutes reading Bhagavad-gītā, then again politics immediately. Immediately politics. I was in Delhi. I attended the meeting when Nawa Khalia (Noakhali?) fast. So this was his prayer. I have seen. And as a result of this, in that prayer meeting he was killed. (Hindi) So nature punishment are there. (Hindi) The last stage of Kali-yuga means you die.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is.... That you have to consider, that it is a fact. And the yoga system is meant.... This is the real yoga system, that because we are on the false understanding, identifying with the body, so the bodily function should be controlled, and concentration or focus should be placed: "What is that living condition?" That is yoga or meditation, to find out what is the real.... Analyze this body and find out where is the living pulse. And that is real yoga system, to control the senses. The senses are working. Now we are getting knowledge through the senses. How to get this knowledge of the living force? That, a mechanical arrangement, that is called yoga system.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This just came from Los Angeles along with some other things. They're having an international yoga and meditation conference in Chicago in June, and Rāmeśvara was wanting to know if we should send some of our preachers there, try and have some kind of a booth or take part in it.

Prabhupāda: If it is possible.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is sponsored by the Himalayan International Institute of Yoga Science and Philosophy, Swami Rama from the Himalayas.

Prabhupāda: Bogus. He's a bogus. Then don't take part.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There is no use taking part in that meeting. Simply take a book stall. "Bhakti-yoga books." Give a signboard, "Bhakti-yoga books." And give the picture of Dhruva Mahārāja, five-years-old boy, executing bhakti-yoga alone in the forest. We have got meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). That is real yoga. And Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api... These ślokas, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47). One who's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, he is first-class yogi. Give one picture of the devotees chanting in a very nice place, and give evidence, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā: "This, first-class yogi. Here is first-class yogi." That will be our preaching. Dhruva Mahārāja is practicing yoga. There are many others. The highest perfection is Rādhārāṇī, that simply crying, "Kṛṣṇa has gone to Mathurā, not coming back." That is the..., the whole day and night crying.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: And these rascals are writing books, that "There is no need of book."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That happened. One swami said, "Now you.... Meditation means don't think of anything." So then one of our men at the meeting raised his hand and said, "Then why do we need you?" So he got very angry. He said, "If the mind should do nothing, what do we need you for?"

Prabhupāda: So what was his reply?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He told his men to usher our man out. His men got very agitated because there was no reply. He couldn't give a reply, so they asked our man to leave for disturbing the sleeping of the public.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But he's not. That is his another foolishness. Even in this state, I am not center. I cannot do whatever I like. I have to believe the law. There is law, and it's sanity. And if he says, "I am the center. I am the monarch of all I survey," (everyone laughs) that is foolishness. He believes in his foolishness, that's all. If I claim, "I am the monarch of Hawaii," is that belief correct? "I am the center of everything. I am moving this." And this rascal's meditation is like this: "I am moving the sun. I am moving the moon." The meditation.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Yes, that's nice.

Rāmeśvara: (Maharishi Mahesh) Yogi, he tried to file a trademark on the words "Transcendental Meditation" with the United States government. So we protested that actually he cannot claim that he is teaching transcendental meditation, what to speak of prohibiting anyone else from using those words. So they accepted our claim and kicked out his application.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They were writing, their lawyers were writing our Society letters that "You cannot use the words 'Transcendental Meditation.' Maharishi has made up this process and you are stealing from him."

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Either you dress the Deity or you cleanse the floor of the temple, the same thing. You get the result the same. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. Anything you do. Somebody is cleansing, somebody is chanting, somebody is cooking, somebody is printing, somebody is selling books—everything is Kṛṣṇa conscious. And that is the best yoga. Sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. Yoginām api sarveṣām: (BG 6.47) "Of all the yogis, who is thinking of Me, always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is the topmost yogi." "By meditation I am trying to become God. By meditation one can become God." This is their foolish theory. Kṛṣṇa, when He exhibited His godly power at the age of three months, where was meditation? (laughs) God is always God. You cannot become by meditation God. You can become godly; that is possible.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You recognize: "God is my father, and I shall be obedient son." That's all. You do what father says. Then you become obedient son. The father says "Always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). You can think of the father always. Where is the difficulty? Just like we're.... Kṛṣṇa is the father. You see Kṛṣṇa daily. And if you think of Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? If you see within your heart the Deity, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, you don't require to pass M.A., Ph.D. examination. You can do it. And He asks man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. That's all. Simple thing. You come to the temple, offer obeisances. Everyone is offering. Where is the difficulty? What you lost? Where is your loss anything? If you come to the temple and offer your respectful obeisances, "Father, please accept my obeisances," where is the difficulty? And father is so kind: "Oh, My dear son, you have come. Very good. Thank you." Immediately you become recognized: "Oh, you are a good son." Where is the difficulty? You don't require the so-called meditation. Meditation is good if you think of your father. If you meditate on something nonsense, what is the use? This is going on. "Real father don't recognize; we are meditating." Misleading. Real meditation is to think of God.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Because my..., it is fact, it is not a bogus thing. It is not some imagination, "By meditation you become God." We do not bluff like that. We give education, scientific education. The books are there. You'll find this Bhagavad-gītā... Have you read ever? No. Here, how to understand God and myself, my relationship. There is no such thing that "You sit down fifteen minutes and you become God." There is no such bogus thing. It is science.

Devotee (1): I think she was asking also why there are so many young people, why so many young are attracted.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Therefore he should be worshiped as good... God does not cheat you. Therefore guru should not be taken as ordinary human being. Guruṣu nara-mati. "I see that he is like ordinary man. His son is calling him 'father.' His wife is..." That's all right, but because he's giving the right information, he is not ordinary human being. Therefore he should be worshiped as good as God. He does not cheat. That is the test of guru. He'll never say that "You give me some bribe and you'll become God by meditation, transcendental." He'll never say that. This is cheating. Why father is respected? Because he never cheats the son. Father is also a man, another man. Why father is...? Because he's always wishing welfare of the son, he does not cheat, sincerely teaches him the reality. Then?

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: "Gradually, step by step, with full conviction, one should become situated in trance by means of intelligence, and thus the mind should be fixed on the self alone and should think of nothing else." Purport: "By proper conviction and intelligence one should gradually cease sense activities. This is called pratyāhāra. The mind, being controlled by conviction, meditation, and cessation of the senses, should be situated in trance, or samādhi. At that time there is no longer any danger of becoming engaged in the material conception of life. In other words, although one is involved with matter, as long as the material body exists, one should not think about sense gratification. One should think of no pleasure aside from the pleasure of the Supreme Self. This state is easily attained by directly practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Kulādri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, before you said the patient has no intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he requires spiritual master's guidance. Because he is rascal. What is the use of accepting a spiritual master? If you want to be cured independently, what is the use of calling a physician, consulting a physician? You do it yourself. (pause) Whether our cows are left now? We don't find cows.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (2): There is a so-called spiritual master, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who is giving meditation courses to them.

Prabhupāda: That is another cheating. Meditation... Whatever nonsense they are doing, you don't know, nobody knows. That's all. Bhava satrugna.(?) "If you become dumb, you have no enemy." Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate. "A rascal is beautiful so long he does not speak." So better meditation; don't speak. Nobody will detect you. This is going on. If you speak, then you'll be detected what you are. And if you sleep by posing meditation, then nobody will ask "What you are doing, nonsense?" This is meditation. Meditation is another cheating. That Prahlāda Mahārāja has detected. Huh? Find out this verse, Seventh Canto.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Modern yogic society. "Transcendental Meditation." Whatever nonsense they like, they do. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that yogis should sit down in a secluded, sacred place, and they are seeking after America's big, big cities. Hmm? They find out yogic class in America's big, big cities, hotels. This is their program. The prescription is that one should sit down in a solitary sacred place, alone, and these rascals are holding class. All smokers, drunkard, woman-hunters, (laughs) they are yogis. Hmm? What do you think? Is it all right? This is going on. And they are accepted, "Yogi this," "Yogi that."

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: To any rascal. Does any rascal know that God is within? And He's witnessing all criminalities. Does he accept that? Then the yogis should not have illicit connection with their disciples. Do they believe God is...? It is simply business for earning money and getting woman. They have no other... Valueless. Therefore the government has said, "Fake." What is that? Actually that is a fact. So many rascals are coming, especially in America. Government, they are seeing, "What is this?" "Transcendental meditation and do whatever nonsense you like." Guru Maharajaji: "No use of books." Practically we are saving the whole world. What can be done? There are so many rascals. Let us do it sincerely. And if we also become victimized, then it will be stopped. Āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā bhakti. Anyone who says God is speaking with, immediately take him as rascal. God is so cheap that He will talk with rascals.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities to preach this cult. Everywhere we have got very, very palatial buildings to accommodate devotees. Now we have got here a very nice place, accommodate devotees. Everywhere we have got. In Bombay we are getting the best temple in India. We are spending crores of rupees, Kṛṣṇa is giving us money. So I started the business with forty rupees. That was also not American currency. They allowed me to bring forty rupees. So when I was getting off the ship I asked the captain, "I have brought these forty rupees, which will not be accepted here, so you take." At that time three books I had, the first, second and third volume. So I asked him that "You purchase. Give me some dollars." So he asked, "What is the price?" "Sixteen dollars." So he gave me twenty dollars, and I delivered them. With that twenty dollars I got out down on the land of America, and that forty rupees. So I did not know where to go, where to stay. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities, and these American boys are helping. I think those who are Indians, they should join this movement sincerely and preach more vigorously. People will be benefited—this is real substance. Otherwise people are being misguided, so many things going on. Transcendental meditation, the, what is called?

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And actually God is there with the living entity, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He particularly pointed out, "Here is God within their core of the heart." Now the yogis, they try to find out God in his body, that is called meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). This is process of the yogis, to find out God within himself. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also stated jagatvena, tat tvena (?) Find out. So God is everywhere, there is no doubt about it. Within you, within me, within the atom, everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā also, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam, "I am everywhere." So God is everywhere, that is God's omnipresence, omnipotency. But still God has His actual position. Na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Oh, your father is also recluse.

Dr. Sharma: Recluse. And I must tell an incident which, although I was growing up with meditation, I find the bhakti-yoga, the chanting, really fulfilling and actually making the difference. Actually making the difference. In one case, it is abstract philosophy, which is the rāja-yoga, other yogas, philosophies, and this actually makes the person transformed. Another incident occurred yesterday, when I was meditating and I wanted to ask about five different ślokas of Gītā, out of which, surprisingly, you discussed four. (laughter) This was most astounding to me.

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vipina: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This is Mr. Kruzowsky. He's a philosophy teacher at the University of Maryland. He's very much interested in yoga and meditation. He invited us to speak earlier this year in his class, philosophy and religion.

Devotee (3): And this is Emmet Holman(?) who teaches philosophy at George Mason University. He's also very interested in Indian philosophy.

Prabhupāda: We had some talk with Professor Kotovsky in Moscow. Recently our representative went to Moscow for selling our book. They have highly appreciated our books. They have given in writing appreciation.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Then I can concentrate my mind towards God realization and self-realization. If my senses are always disturbing, it is not possible to apply my mind for self-realization. That is not possible. Therefore the yoga practice, preliminary practice, is yama-niyama, controlling, niyama, under regulative principles. They are all described in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā and other Vedic literature also. And the ultimate end of yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). By meditation, he always thinks... This morning I was walking near the (indistinct) falls, I told, "This is the best place for practicing yoga." Yoga cannot be practiced in a fashionable way in a big city with (indistinct) meditation.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So in the Kali-yuga, this age, so many difficulties, social, political, religious, cultural. So in Kali-yuga the practice of yoga is not possible. It was possible in the Satya-yuga. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. That is meditation. That was possible in the Satya-yuga. But in Kali-yuga you can do that, the same achievement you can have by hari-kīrtana, by chanting the holy name of the Lord. And factually you'll find our, these disciples, young boys and girls, they are not practicing in a secluded place the yoga system. They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And bring any yogi in the world and talk with them and see the comparison. Because that is fashion only; it has no practical value. And here is practical value. Maybe one or two are successful, but mass of people, yoga practice is not recommended. That is not possible to be executed.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I asked, there's another very special magazine came out, and I asked Rādhāvallabha to bring it and present it to you. It's from New York, but I wanted him to read some of the things. He read the whole thing, it's a whole magazine devoted to meditation groups, and they have featured our society as the best. It's clear, our society was featured more than any others. They mentioned Maharishi and so many others, but they gave...

Prabhupāda: We are also mentioned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They gave us the most space in the magazine.

Hari-śauri: They did it in sections. There was a bit about kīrtana, there was a section about shaving the head, there's a whole section about Kṛṣṇa prasādam, how to offer it and cook it and everything. It was very nice.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: What is that controversial? (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's so nice, he reads things so on the walks, he can throw out scientific arguments and other things. He likes to do that. It's really funny, there's one article, one advertisement in the back of this magazine, meditation magazine. It says "Special offer: send in twenty-five dollars and you will learn how to do transcendental meditation in one evening. And if you are not satisfied, you get your money back, but you get to keep your own private mantra." This book is a real..., it really shows you what the whole scene on spiritual groups is, how phony they are. Except ours. Ours appears very legitimate from the magazine. But these others are complete hypocrisy.

Hari-śauri: He especially canes Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are cheating. Is there any meaning that you pay so many dollars and take the mantra? Mantra is such a thing for business?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In this meditation magazine one of the things they sell, the special techniques is you take a ping-pong ball, ping-pong, you know, that table tennis? And you cut it in half and you place the two halves on your eyes, and then that is called samādhi. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Who has said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll show you the picture when he brings the magazine. They show a person very seriously meditating on two halves of a ping-pong ball. You have to pay for it. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So? What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the magazine I was telling you about. Transcendental Meditation Today.

Prabhupāda: That is the name of the magazine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The feature article is...

Prabhupāda: This is our?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big article all about our society.

Prabhupāda: Oh, my picture also.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: This is the downstairs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Hare Kṛṣṇa Meditation. Who is Kṛṣṇa?" "The Kṛṣṇa Cut." It tells about the haircut, śikhā.

Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇa cut" (laughs).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then in the back there's more articles about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there's the..., here, "Food for the gods, prasādam."

Hari-śauri: Describes what standard we have for making the prasādam, how you can't taste it, you have to be very clean.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's that..., remember I was telling you about that meditation on the ping-pong balls?

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says "Profit without any honor." He quotes you in here. It says "Swami Prabhupāda, spiritual leader of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and Bill Faill, Durban, South Africa, of the Natal Mercury Reporter, had the following dialogue: (reads from magazine) Bill Faill: 'Do you think that Transcendental Meditation is helping people?' Prabhupāda: 'They do not know what real meditation is. Their meditation is simply a farce, another cheating process by the so-called swamis and yogis. So everyone is talking about meditation, but no one knows what meditation really is. These bluffers use the word meditation, but they do not know the proper subject for meditation. They are simply talking bogus propaganda.' Bill Faill: 'But isn't meditation helpful in getting people to think straight?' Prabhupāda: 'No, real meditation means to achieve a state in which the mind is saturated by God consciousness.' "

Prabhupāda: Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). This is the Vedic version. When one man's mind is fully absorbed in the Supersoul, Viṣṇu, that is called meditation.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Rādhāvallabha: There are some quotes here from people describing Maharishi's meditation. It says "A Denver housewife said, 'I turned off when I found that TM' " that's what they call Transcendental Meditation, " 'I turned off when I found that TM is trying to sell me meditation the same way Proctor and Gamble sells me soap.' "

Prabhupāda: Gamble?

Rādhāvallabha: Big soap company.

Hari-śauri: Proctor and Gamble manufactures all kinds of soaps and detergents, so she's saying that the way they sell Transcendental Meditation is the same as the way they sell soap.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very commercialized.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Let their men come and talk with our men in a public meeting. Then people will understand what is the difference.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have a catalog, Transcendental Meditation University, it's very well done, nice colors and anything, first class. They spend a lot of money and a lot of thoughts how to bring, how to attract the students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says their University's just closed down.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, the one at Iowa?

Hari-śauri: No, the one in Majorca, in Spain.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is the headquarters, Iowa, the main University. We saw the catalog. It contains everything, all sciences.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: This article explains that when he first appeared in public, he presented himself as a Hindu representative of Śaṅkarācārya's cult, but then later on he concocted this Transcendental Meditation, and then he presented it as a science so that he could get government grants to teach it in schools and things like this.

Rādhāvallabha: They have another guru here, Bhagwan Shri Rajneesh.

Prabhupāda: He has also come?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His group is big here. He's very popular in America.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were doing this in Bhopal. In Bhopal, we were there when we had our Jeeps. So in the same place we were staying they let this group Rajneesh do it. So they were going with that mantra, "Who who." So we were standing out from the balcony shouting, "Kṛṣṇa, that's who." Every morning they would do that meditation, and we would answer "Kṛṣṇa." (laughter)

Hari-śauri: They call his method "chaotic meditation."

Prabhupāda: They say?

Hari-śauri: That's the heading, it says "Chaotic Meditation."

Rādhāvallabha: That's the name of it. After they go "Who who who who who who..."

Prabhupāda: What about..., what they have written about us?

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's American?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Tripurāri: He thinks there are different types of meditation that all work, and ours is one type, bona fide, that works. There are also other types.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The article goes on—I don't know if you want to hear it all. You want to hear it? Okay. Here's this thing called "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" "Kṛṣṇa, viewed by ISKCON as the Supreme Personification of Godhead, is said to have many pastimes in which He assumes different appearances. One such is that of Gopālajī, the cowherd boy—see picture, cowherd boy—He can appear in other forms such as four-armed Nārāyaṇa. Most often Kṛṣṇa is portrayed as having light blue skin and, by Western standards, a soft and effeminate physique.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. Then there is a part called "Hare Kṛṣṇa Meditation." "The Hare Kṛṣṇaś practice bhakti, the yoga of devotion. They have their mahāmantra, continual recitation of which will have a meditative effect. By integrating recitation of the mantra with a life of rigidly formulated devotional activities, it would seem that devotees actually live their meditation. Such a life of living meditation is not without parallel in secular fields. It is believed that the spiritual form of alchemy served this purpose; that is, an alchemist repeated the same experimental routine over and over until it became automatized, though still requiring some slight personal involvement."

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Another meditation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this is another one. Deichman experiment. Then they have one about Zen Buddhism, it shows Zen meditation. Here's a Zen master sitting in front of a basketball. I don't know why.

Ādi-keśava: They have a meditation that they call Zen basketball.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ādi-keśava: We went to one seminar once when they were teaching Zen basketball.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ādi-keśava: We went to one seminar once when they were teaching Zen basketball.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's another one, "Hypnotism or Meditation." A hypnotist discusses a question that many face. Because they accuse that we're hypnotizing, so they're trying to distinguish in this article what is hypnotism, what is meditation. Then here's another one, "The Art of Awareness." This woman is supposed to be a great transcendental artist. You can see some of her famous pictures. Here's a picture called "Congregations of Souls." And here's another picture called "Temple Stones." Then this is the Gansfield effect. (laughter) Ping-pong balls. Says here "The apparently pop-eyed lady is not a visitor from another dimension nor the victim of a sudden surprise. She is the subject of an experiment into the nature of meditation and some of the effects of the processes. The ping-pong ball halves present a completely continuous visual field. There's no object in it that can hold her attention.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Actually she does?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, that's the meditation. They put the ping-pong ball, and then it describes, "She will feel peaceful and serene. At the same time she may not be able to tell whether her eyes are open or closed. She will see neither white nor black nor any shade in between. She will have the experience of not seeing. At that point, which the subject in this kind..."

Prabhupāda: With the eyes closed, then not seeing is there already. (laughter) What is the use of meditating?

Hari-śauri: You aren't going to see very much with two ping-pong balls over your eyes, are you? (laughter)

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: This thing about alpha range, this is becoming a big thing. They think that if a person gets into this alpha range of brain stimulation, then his meditation is successful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're trying to figure it all out scientifically.

Ādi-keśava: They're trying to use all kinds of machines and wires to measure consciousness. They have one group that has tin cans attached to wires, and they hold them in their hand, and then they measure it on the machine as they meditate. And when they meditate right, the needle on the machine goes right in the middle, and they think they have achieved perfection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is an article called "Travels Beyond the Body: what is it that travels, and what is it that's seen?" They're talking about traveling beyond your body. Here's an advertisement, "Because I have taken the mystery out of transcendental meditation, I will teach you to master transcendental meditation in a single evening." "About the author." Then it says, "Free private mantra based on your own name, selected by the great Norbell, translated by his special Sanskrit system, so that no one else in America has the same mantra twice. No other system of transcendental meditation..."

Prabhupāda: What is this? Maharishi?

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's another group called Arika.(?) This Arika(?) costs three thousand dollars, this process. They charge three thousand dollars for a ninety-day course.

Ādi-keśava: Part of their whole meditation is they have cocktail parties. They drink liquor and they have these therapy, and they charge him money to go to a cocktail party, they call it yoga.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, it's got a good article about us. You want to keep it to show guests who come the article?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Devotee (1): So many intelligent people, they are going to Transcendental Meditation simply because it's costing money. They want to pay. My sister, her husband, they are intelligent people, but they are simply...

Prabhupāda: So intelligent that they cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. What kind of intelligence is that, the plain thing in the Bhagavad-gītā, they cannot...

Devotee (1): Very bad intelligence.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15).

Prabhupāda: Yes. So-called intelligent, they are not intelligent. They have lost their sense by the influence of māyā. Even big, big men, they say that Kṛṣṇa, this Kṛṣṇa is not God. "The God Kṛṣṇa is different" and so on, so on. Do they not say like that?

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of the modern-day cults in America, different philosophies, they say that all of the suffering is experienced within the mind. So they try by meditation to ignore the suffering.

Prabhupāda: Or... That's all right. When there is fire you meditate, why do you call fire brigade? If you are so great meditator, then you go on meditating, why you call for fire brigade? Nonsense, all rascals. (laughter) Simply rascals. Mūḍha. They have been described as mūḍha. Rascals, that's all.

Devotee: Sometimes they say it's just a dream and they say if you are bothering me, and you are just my dream; I don't have to worry about it, I'll have another dream and you'll go away.

Prabhupāda: No but dream is... It may be, but when there is fire, you call it dream, but why do you call fire brigade? When you are diseased why you go to physician? Dream it. (laughter) The major problem is birth, death, and old age, and disease. You do not want that. You must seek the measures. That is human life. Whether birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped? If there is any such life that there is no more birth, death, that is human life.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Meditating means this subject matter: that I don't want death, why death is forced upon me? That is real meditation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the problems of life are more than simply those which we perceive?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, what is the meditation? Think about something seriously, that is meditation. But if you have no important serious thinking, simply some imagination, how it will help you?

Devotee (1): Excuse me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This evening they are having one convention here, the Democratic National Convention. One of the two big political parties in the city, at one place called Madison Square Garden. And all the television and newspaper people in the whole country will be there. They're beginning at 8 o'clock this evening.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, 1893.

Interviewer: Ninety-three, I see. Since then there has been a lot of interest in this country in Indian philosophy. Recent gurus have come, they have talked about meditation. My own view is that all of these things have influenced the American people, but in a kind of intellectual fad, a kind of fashion. And it seems to me that your intention and aim is not merely to cater to the mind, cater to reason, cater to the intellect, but to effect a kind of transformation of man himself. Is this why you have introduced a whole way of living, a whole way of life, is it? Am I right in suggesting that?

Meeting with Italian Printer -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Yogeśvara: He finds it difficult to accept that the truth is something that you can put down in black and white. He seems to feel that it's more something you can realize through meditation.

Prabhupāda: How you'll realize? Unless you learn ABCD, how you can realize truth?

Translator: He's saying that we believe in the spiritual truth, but does that mean that our material truth does not exist?

Prabhupāda: It is conditional. Just like your body exists for a certain days only. But it is not eternal. But you, soul, you are eternal.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: Sometimes boys come here and they are involved in impersonal meditation. They want liberation...

Prabhupāda: Well, that is their business. Let them do. You try to understand the position. Meditation is also something. Asuras, they do not take to meditation. Meditation is something beginning to the path of devatā. Dhyānāvasthita. If they are actually serious then they can profit. Meditation is not always bad, if they are properly guided. But that is not the business of the asuras. They say, "On whom I shall meditate?" The asuras do not do that.

Devotee: They have special meditation for asuras.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Devotee: They have special meditation for asuras.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: They have special classes in meditation for asuras. They give them some meaningless word to meditate upon.

Prabhupāda: So what is the purpose of this meditation?

Devotee: To make..., to relax the mind.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is another thing. Material. That is, er, Transcendental Meditation. (long pause)

Jñānagamya: How can we convince them?

Prabhupāda: Hm? How can you convince? They are asuras.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Hm? How can you convince? They are asuras.

Jñānagamya: No, those who doing some meditation that are Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: No, they are also asuras. They do not know what is the meaning of meditation. That is psychology. It is not meditation. Or some medical treatment. Meditation is different, real meditation.

Devotee: What is... What is real meditation?

Prabhupāda: Real meditation is to find out the Supersoul within the core of the heart. That is real meditation. God is situated in everyone's heart, so the yogis, they try to find out the Supersoul within the heart. That is real yogi.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: In Vedic prayer it is like this. Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇāḥ. Yasya antam, the glories of the Lord, unlimited. So nobody can go to the limit of His glorification, either the sura or asura, the demons or the demigods. Nobody can reach. But He's glorified by the demigods like, yaṁ brahmā, Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, Śiva, Varuṇa, the predominating deity of air, fire, Lord Brahmā. Everyone worships Him, yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ, by glorified prayers. And gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ. Vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadaiḥ—by Vedic hymns, by Upaniṣad, by Vedic literature. Gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis in meditation try to find out Him within the core of the heart. Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ. The same prayer. The difference is the action. Difference is in the action. So far prayer is concerned, God is great, accepted, either by the Christian or the Muhammadan or the Hindus or the followers of Vedic principles. Now "God is great, glorify Him, and that is the business of human life," that they are not taking. Practically.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are rascal fools because they do not take Kṛṣṇa's word. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Why should we bother? Our mission is simply to propagate Kṛṣṇa's instructions. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't manufacture anything. So-called yoga, so-called meditation, so-called this and... We don't care for all this nonsense. Our only business is how to implement the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, the rascals may understand and be happy. That is our mission. We haven't got to manufacture anything. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa and try to deliver it to anyone you meet. This is our... We haven't got to manufacture anything. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Take it, without interpretation. Don't spoil the whole thing. Interpretation means spoiling. Whole thing spoiled.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is "theologians, scholars," and they, he said... Just see. Go on.

Maṇihāra: "At present there are 108 ISKCON centers in 30 countries throughout the world. These centers enable full-time members to live in close association, following the principles of Vedic life, and also provide a place where interested visitors can learn about the philosophy and culture of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and participate in its various functions. The basis of the movement is the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. The chanting of this mantra is the most recommended means for spiritual progress in this age, as it cleanses the mind and enables one to transcend the temporary designations of race, religion, and nationality and to understand one's true identity as an eternal spiritual being. In other words, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa one can directly experience self-realization and lead a blissful life. The devotees experience divine ecstasy in singing the holy names of God to the accompaniment of musical instruments. The Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, as a prerequisite for the serious pursuit of spiritual life, voluntarily abstain from meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, and gambling. The Kṛṣṇa conscious life style is based on the principles of simple living and high thinking. The devotees rise very early, about 3:30 a.m., and spend the morning hours in meditation and study.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No. That is impersonalism. And those who actually go to Godhead, they remain in their spiritual body.

Indian man: Between meditation and kīrtana, which is the easier and...

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana. Yes. Meditation means you'll think of your business and all sleep, snoring. That is meditation. (laughter) (end)

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (2): My humble prayer was that by doing japa, by doing meditation, by doing bhakti-mārga, need we go to jñāna-mārga also, or bhakti-mārga is enough by itself? That was my humble supplication.

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-mārga is enough. Bhakti-mārga means it includes everything. Without jñāna, there is no bhakti. The jñāna is called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20); that is real jñāna. If you... Aiye. If you understand your position, then it is jñāna. If you do not understand your position, then where is jñāna? Do you follow? Therefore Bhagavān says, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When... So long you are ajñāna, in ignorance, you cannot be happy. You cannot be happy. But when you are in jñāna, then you'll be happy. That is the symptom of becoming jñānī. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54).

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) ...knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing. (sound coming on and off, tape recorder faulty.) So our this movement is successful... On account of this movement... (break) ...learned scholars and those who are inquisitive, advanced... (break)... He Maharishi Mahesh Yogi says that this is material. If you perform this meditation, transcendental meditation, you will be materially benefited. That is not spiritual meditation.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No. It is in the hands of the young men. It is not possible for them to stop it. If, had it been a sentiment of some retired, just like other thing, that Vivekananda's, all these old fools and rascals, they assemble and meditate. It is not that. They are active. It is not so-called meditation, and snoring, (makes snoring sound) meditating! It is not that. I have seen, all these rascals go, yogis, they prescribe meditation, and meditation means sleeping and snoring, that's all. It is not that movement. We are sending in (indistinct), "Come, sell books." It is no question of meditation. Cheating himself and cheating others. What he will meditate and he requires so many primary rules and regulations before meditating, not that... In the Bhagavad-gītā before meditation it is clearly stated one should not close the eyes.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā before meditation it is clearly stated one should not close the eyes. As soon as you close the eyes and meditate, you will sleep. Immediately. They should be half closed and concentrate your eyesight on the top of the nose. That is meditation. Not that closing and snoring and huhuh. These rascals are going on. Who cares for the genuine thing? Nobody cares. Dharma (indistinct). That "I am your guru, I have followers," dharma principle, but he does not know this. This is going on. Neither the rascal guru knows neither his disciple knows. This is going on. Everywhere this is going on. All bluff. This very word used, adharma (indistinct), get a plan, "That I am (indistinct)." That's all. And have it, that's all, and do nothing, that's all. I do not know nothing but (indistinct), that's all. All these gurus all these chelas are doing that.

Room Conversation -- November 14, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the court case? That we have to place before the court that "This is genuine cultural or religious movement." We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we are trying to spread. This is genuine, the simple thing. We have not manufactured anything, "transcendental meditation" or like that. That is not our business. We are presenting simply what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. If somebody said that "Bible is not genuine," will it be accepted? Thousands and thousands are claiming to be Christian on the basis of... Similarly millions and millions of people in India, they know Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. How it is not genuine? That we have to prove, that's all. It's not that... Repeatedly we are speaking that what Kṛṣṇa said, that is perfect. That's all. This is our business. Who will object to that? You could not present to the governor that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Anyone can say, "Yes, it is based on Bhagavad-gītā. It is genuine."

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Not.

Mr. Saxena: Cidananda is the in-charge of that institute, Divine Life Society. There is another Yogesvarananda. There is Upaniketan trust. They are having three years' course for regular yoga. And there is some (indistinct) Mahesh Yogi, transcendental meditation (indistinct) samādhi. I lived there for fifteen days, tried to get something out of that. Everywhere I found there is no... We are after peace. There is no peace there.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, you say that religion is the law of God. So that means there can only be one religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. God is one, (indistinct) for everyone. (indistinct) Yes.

Devotee: So all others are just contaminated.

Room Conversation -- November 18, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And this paper should be carried to Pradyumna. (break) ...predicted it? They are not going to do all this protest against Transcendental Meditation.

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: That means here they are feeling the weight. You see? These protests, this combination, this endeavor to collapse our..., that means they are feeling more weight. And what is this movement, Transcendent...? They never formed against any case, anything, Transcendental... They know that is farce. There are so many other groups. Yogi Bhajan, Transcendental Meditation and what is he? Guru...?

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is medicine; there is beating with shoes. That is going on. Mūrkhasya laktansadhiḥ,(?) argumentum baculum. You cannot mildly speak to the animals, "My dear cow, my dear dog, please do not bark. Do not go this way." No, you require lāṭhi, stick, and they will behave. Can you stop dog's barking by simply request? But you take the stick and beat it, and he will stop. Mūrkhasya laktausadhiḥ.(?) So there is no king. There is no kṣatriya. Therefore these rascals are talking all nonsense. There is no śāsana. This is king's duty, to see that they are acting according to śāstra. But there is no such king. So everyone is acting whimsically, whatever he likes, and the so-called swamis are preaching, "No, no, whatever you like, that's all right. You can eat whatever you like. You can do whatever you like. You think yourself that you are God. That's all right." This is going on. By thinking himself that he's God, he becomes God. This is going on, so many meditations: "I am moving the sun, I am moving the Moon, I am moving... mo mo mo mo." (laughter) And rascals are following them.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then that is his wish. (pause) This is our movement.

Guest (4): Through meditation you attain mukti?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (4): Through meditation ultimately you attain Him.

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by meditation?

Guest (4): I don't know, but normally it is understood to be...

Prabhupāda: Then why you are talking of meditation?

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Which concentration? What is the subject?

Guest (4): It can be from man to man, from... One may do it on Kṛṣṇa and one may do it on...

Prabhupāda: That is not standard. If meditation is according to one's whims, that is not meditation.

Guest (4): But it depends upon the faith.

Prabhupāda: According to śāstra, meditation means to meditate upon God. That is meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Yoginaḥ, those who are yogis, they meditate upon the form of the Lord.

Guest (4): So through that, you...

Prabhupāda: That is meditation.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest (4): You attain God or what is the concept?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Meditation means Kṛṣṇa. He says meditation. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "Just concentrate your mind upon Me." This is meditation.

Guest (4): Then, in due course of time, do you see Him? Or in what form?

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately you see Him. Kṛṣṇa's picture is there. Kṛṣṇa's picture and Kṛṣṇa is not different. So if you concentrate upon Kṛṣṇa, you immediately see Him.

Guest (4): You see Him.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Every point is very clear. In the Bhagavad-gītā, every point is very clear, unless you interpret it in the wrong way. ("Kṛṣṇa Meditations" is recorded on this tape also, making it indistinct)

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: But how it can be called? If you interpret in your own way, interpret in your own way, interpretation, then where is Bhagavad-gītā? Best thing is that take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then there will be (indistinct). Why you should interpret? You have no right to interpret on the words of Bhagavad-gītā?

Guest: But Swamiji, you have also given so much (indistinct). That is interpretation.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nityānām, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaḥ... (Hindi) Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). (Hindi) That is his foolishness. And foolish person will accept. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Therefore He shall remain the Supreme always. We have to refer to the Vedic śāstras. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is description of Bhagavān. That He has nothing to do, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. (Hindi) (Explains in Hindi that Kṛṣṇa does not need or show any magic, when He was just a child He killed Pūtanā. Not that by meditation He became God. Bhagavān is always Bhagavān.) Either he is three months old or three years old or three hundred years old. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate, nobody can be equal or greater than Him. If someone is equal to Him then how He is Bhagavān?

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But that they will not take.

Guest (2): That they will not take for what reason?

Prabhupāda: Reason is: "This is cheap. The swami is giving something cheap." Nowadays it has become a fashion, "Meditation." What nonsense meditation he will do?" This is going on. He cannot take cheap thing.

Guest (1): Cheap thing may be the right thing, the true thing, but "Because it's cheap, (laughing) so we..., not to be bothered."

Prabhupāda: In Europe, America, the Indian students, they say, "Oh, we have seen all this Hare Kṛṣṇa. We now want technology."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hundreds there are. But what we have got to do with them?

Guest (1): They're addicted with those things. And also some of our own Transcendental Meditation and so forth, all these things are creating some mental confusion and lack of certain clarity which is...

Prabhupāda: But we must have eyes to see. What they have got, position? All these, they go and come. But here it is entering into the core of the heart of the younger generation. They are becoming mad after it. One should have eyes to see. And therefore the authorities are afraid that "Younger generation, if they..." Here is one book by Professor Stillson Judah. He's a great, learned scholar. After five years study on this movement he has written this book, Hare Krishna and Counterculture.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is our triumph.

Rāmeśvara: They're in a Kaṁsa-sampradāya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Following the example of Kaṁsa, unfavorable meditation on Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that will also do benefit.

Trivikrama: Their center is Kṛṣṇa also, only they're demons.

Rāmeśvara: These are receipts, Śrīla Prabhupāda, each one for two thousand dollars deposited in your account in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: That is rent tax.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is the right movement. This is the test.

Dr. Patel: If all that...

Prabhupāda: Who cares for this Transcendental Meditation? They are not hogging any propaganda. It is coming this ear and going this ear. They don't care for it. So many others have gone. Who cares for them? They are not serious for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because they know it is changing the whole civilization.

Haṁsadūta: There's that one verse you were saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that so many Brahmās may come and go...

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: In America, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if people become followers of a particular music group, then they take their message and their life-style very seriously. Just like when the people were following the Beatles, and then the Beatles became involved with meditation, so this made it very popular in America. If the group becomes... If the music group becomes popular, then whatever they do, everyone follows. So I am thinking that we can make this music group, Golden Avatar, very popular. Then everyone will find out that they believe in reincarnation and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everyone will follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes, something "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa" music must be there.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Our movies so far cannot be on television because they are too much Hare Kṛṣṇa propaganda. But if this is done in a way, they will not know that it is the Hare Kṛṣṇa propaganda, but it will be there anyway... It will be like a very scholarly, academic movie. And then they'll show it on television. They're eager. Because it's such a controversy about chanting and meditation, whether it is brainwashing or not, so if we make this movie, they'll put it on nationwide television.

Prabhupāda: And what you can do? You can show some temples or you can show some meeting of Bhāgavata recital. That's it, two things.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The Aurobindo was a hippie. (laughter) He had that long hair, and he was victimized by that mother. She brought... She was young, and she brought money, and Aurobindo was killed. In the beginning he had some yogic practice, but since that mother came, woman can conquer any rascal. (laughs) So she also... She conquered, and then nobody was allowed to see him in his secluded meditation. Only this mother was allowed. She would supply food, supply... And nobody could see. And she would give darśana only one day in the year. He would not speak with anyone, and the disciples were advised, "Simply think of Aurobindo. You have nothing to do." That's it. So you have been there?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But they say Transcendental Meditation is going...

Hari-śauri: Six million.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, that's big because you don't have to give up anything. I met some of my old friends in New York, and I debated with them. And their philosophy is that this Transcendental Meditation is based on natural process of God consciousness, and our effort is all artificial. We are giving up meat, giving up sex—this is artificial. Their philosophy is that "If you continue meditating, one day automatically you'll give up these things. So why do it prematurely?"

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, but if one day you have to give it up, why not prematurely?

Rāmeśvara: Give it up when you are... By the Transcendental Meditation, twenty minutes a day, automatically you are purifying yourself naturally. Therefore that is more perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, if I can purify immediately, what is the wrong?

Rāmeśvara: He said it creates stress. By doing it artificially you create too much stress.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: That's it. And they're envious, so therefore he's trying to find fault. He says, "You are creating so much stress that you are actually blocking your mind from the higher realms of meditation."

Prabhupāda: No, that is... "You are saying. Our mind is not blocked. We are making progress. You are saying that because you cannot do it. That is your deficiency. We can do it immediately."

Hari-śauri: They can only do it twenty minutes a day.

Prabhupāda: If that is the goal, that you have to give up, so we give up immediately, without any difficulty.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But they're making propaganda against this Transcendental Meditation also. The biggest Christian preacher in America—his name is Billy Graham—he is a good friend of former president Nixon and very wealthy. And he has stated publicly that this Transcendental Meditation... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...sees practically.

Gargamuni: These people, though, who follow these processes, they don't dedicate their lives. They follow it for two years, then they get married and they forget the whole thing. While they're students...

Prabhupāda: It is a hobby.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Many ordinary businessmen and middle-class people have spent the money and practiced Transcendental Meditation for a little bit, and they say it has helped them. It has given them peace of mind for a little bit.

Prabhupāda: That can give temporarily.

Rāmeśvara: But there's one haṭha-yoga teacher from India who's a little well known.

Gargamuni: Yogi Bhajan?

Rāmeśvara: No. He's different. He is a sex teacher. But there is this one other haṭha-yoga teacher. I can't remember his name. He's... Viṣṇu Devananda. And he is publishing pamphlets against Maharishi, that "This is completely bogus. In the name of meditation it is completely fraud, bluff, bogus." And he mails out these pamphlets all over America. He takes out ads in the newspapers trying to expose that "This is not according to any Indian scripture."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's...

Rāmeśvara: But spiritual is something different. So they say "A recent survey indicates that a projected six million people are participating in the Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation. Five million are practicing yoga in one form or another." Mostly for health. "Three million in the charismatic movements." That is like the cults. "Three million in mysticism, and two million in Eastern religions." That's a lot of people they have estimated are participating in Eastern religion.

Prabhupāda: Eastern Indian.

Rāmeśvara: Mostly us, and some bogus so-called gurus.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere.

Rāmeśvara: But it's very interesting that they are saying that so many millions of people are practicing yoga or interested in meditation or the Eastern religions or mysticism-millions of Americans. And formerly, I remember, in the 1960's, it was a new thing. Actually when you came, that was the beginning. Before you came to America there was a little bit of interest in some concoction which they call Zen Buddhism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: "Indian Brain Research Association, Department of Biochemistry, University of Calcutta. Gentlemen: The Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana mantra used in meditation or chanting of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa has been practiced not only by the Vaiṣṇavas of India, but by most of the Hindus as a regular religious and social practice in Hindu families. Millions of Hindus practice with sublime devotion the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We are not aware of any case where such practice has resulted in any detrimental effect to the health or mind of anyone. We can submit that the worshiping of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, as being practiced in West Bengal, India, does not differ from that of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. And as such, either of them cannot do any harm to the devotee or to the observer. Further we can add that the rhythmic dance and musical (Bengali:) svara in Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana mantra may have profound beneficial effect on a distorted human mind. These practices do not have any relation with brainwashing, although the word seems to carry no scientific meaning at all. Statement by Professor Ajit K. Mytee. Yours faithfully, J.J. Ghosh, President on behalf of the Indian Brain Research Association."

Prabhupāda: It is good certificate. And University of Calcutta. So you publish this.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The poison has already entered. (laughs) Now it is reacting, so they are feeling the pressure. That is our success, when there is opposition. They are not going to oppose any such movement like Transcendental Meditation. No, they don't care. But this, they are seeing that it is very venomous poison.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They didn't realize your intentions when you first came in 1965.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. No illicit sex, no meat-eating. I thought that nobody would take this. But is Kṛṣṇa's mercy; you have taken it seriously. So just you have got your room?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, very nicely situated.

Satsvarūpa: You'll be taking prasādam.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ... Son begotten by Lord Śiva in the womb of Pārvatī, he'll be able to conquer over the demons. Kārttikeya. You have heard the name of Kārttikeya? So the, wife of Lord Śiva, Dākṣāyaṇī, committed suicide in the Dakṣa-yajña. She heard blaspheming (of) her husband so immediately she gave up her body: "My father, you have given this body; therefore you are claiming so much from me. I give up this body." So he (she) gave up his (her) body, and the next birth she was born as the daughter of Himalaya king, Pārvatī. And after her death as the daughter of Dakṣa Mahārāja, Lord Śiva was engaged in meditation, very deep meditation. Now the problem was how to wake up Lord Śiva from meditation and engage him again with Pārvatī. Nobody dared. So the Pārvatī was engaged to worship the genital of Lord Śiva. He was in meditation, and he could not be awakened.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Probably because of this reasoning, that... They use this phrase, that "We have to make Kṛṣṇa consciousness more conventional, and with the shaved heads and pictures of Kṛṣṇa, people won't like it." So they've taken to this description of simple life, vague talk of spiritual life, reincarnation, meditation.

Tripurāri: Seems like a compromise.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People are speaking about our movement now. Many people say to us that "You are selling out, compromising your position." And they...

Prabhupāda: This should be stopped, immediately. Why they are doing that without..., concocting?

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Moon is finished? No.

Hari-śauri: Practically.

Prabhupāda: What about Transcendental Meditation?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are very clever. But even now they're coming under great criticism. They're starting to become criticized also. But they are much... He has so much watered down the whole thing that it doesn't disturb hardly anybody. It's no... It's like ten minutes a day. "Keep your job. Keep your position. Do everything you're doing. Just ten minutes a day go to sleep. Say some mantra and sleep." So no one is very much upset by it. It doesn't demand anything, doesn't demand very much at all, like taking a pill.

Prabhupāda: He's very clever.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't make it cheap. It has got a science. It has got a form.

Rāmeśvara: I've seen in some articles they have written to defend our society from the attack of deprogrammers, sometimes one argument they give is that meditation and chanting are being studied by scientists, and they are finding the effects to be good. Now...

Prabhupāda: Effect will be good. And if we do it properly it will be first class.

Rāmeśvara: Now, these scientists, they are studying Hare Kṛṣṇa meditation, but they're also studying some other processes which are not authorized. And they are...

Prabhupāda: That is the defect.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: We're trying like that. They are endorsing something else.

Prabhupāda: This is a better meditation. Meditation... One is performing meditation silently. But if we chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa," it is forced meditation. He has to meditate. So it is better meditation. Just like they're chanting. I am engaged in different business. Still, I am hearing. (kīrtana in background) This is the... And one is silently meditating, he's getting, maybe he's getting the benefit, but here anyone who is hearing, getting benefit. Therefore chanting is better than... Yes. And it is recommended by Haridāsa Ṭhākura that... This is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that "Chanting, even the trees, even the insects and the animals, they will hear and they get the benefit." So it is better meditation. Even the trees, plants, animals, birds, beasts, they can take benefit. And if it is done by pure Vaiṣṇava, then they get the full benefit.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because the young men are taking it.

Mr. Koshi: But how does it...

Prabhupāda: It is not such yoga system. (imitates snoring) Meditation. It is not like that. Young men, they are taking it. They are preaching, they have sacrificed their life. So they are intelligent persons, they can understand that we should not die. It is not old man's recreation.

Mr. Koshi: No, but you are responsible for it.

Prabhupāda: I am not... Kṛṣṇa is responsible. I am just distributing. My duty is to distribute. That's all.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Imitate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That man is such a bluffer.

Prabhupāda: Everyone bluffer. The transcendental meditation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are going to meet a lot of them. They were telling me yesterday, some of Gargamuni's men had been in Kashmir and Srinagar. They said that now is the time coming up, all of the big movie stars, everybody goes to Srinagar, very popular. Most popular resort place in all of India.

Prabhupāda: Our this philosophy will not appeal to these rascals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I was thinking that also.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means the rascals, they do not see it, that godlessness, godless education will be like that. The teachers who are suggesting, they are themselves blind, and they are leading. They do not know what is the defect. You can write to them, that "You are leaders, you do not know what is the cause. This is the cause. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Without God consciousness, there cannot be any education. There cannot be any good qualities. You do not know this. Simply you are crying in the wilderness. You yourself do not know. All the education, its propaganda is how to make the world godless, although the most scientific knowledge of God is there in the Bhagavad-gītā." Write him. Give him a slap, that "You do not know." Introduce our Kṛṣṇa consciousness books in the educational department. "Yato mata tato patha. Transcendental meditation. God has given you senses. Why you should not enjoy?" This is his...

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because he has come to know that if we can capture, it will be dangerous. And this... What is that? Transcendental Meditation?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Prabhupāda: That Mahesh Yogi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mahesh, Maharishi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they're starting to get wise to him now.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're starting to catch on to him now, and when they do it's going to be a big scandal because he really made it into the American..., all over the world, but especially in America. He even got into the Army. They were teaching Transcendental Meditation in the Army. Even in schools... He had it in public schools. He said, "It is not at all religious. It's science, and it should be taught. Just like you teach gymnastics, you should also teach this." So if this becomes exposed, oh... It'll also hurt us indirectly, but actually it'll be good for us. But naturally they'll think that "All of these groups are now bogus." He's very much accepted in the public mind. But now the Congressional committees are investigating him.

Prabhupāda: And ours is accepted.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And practice yoga in the crematorium. Nine woman friend and sex and perform meditation without discharge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where do they do this?

Prabhupāda: In the burning ghāṭa, where this dead body is burned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They do this with a dead body?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. But they go there.

Prabhupāda: This is called tāntrika-yoga.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: They have also manufactured. (laughter) This is going on. So Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Guru is required to understand tad-vijñānam, transcendental science, not for any material understanding. Material understanding, there are so many chemists, (sic:) physists and many other department of... When we speak of guru, it means beyond this material world. For that purpose we require guru. So... Just like now it is being very much advertised that "You execute meditation. Your mind will be strong. Your health will be strong." That means from material point. But keeping your health strong, the medical science is there and so many other thing. But people are taking advantage of this yoga system. The śāstra says that dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). He is yogi who is meditating and mind is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The professors are starving. No students are interested in philosophy. Rather, they take admission in the technological class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or even in meditation in classes. They want some practical realization.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I go on reading, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Seeing that the... Lord Caitanya did not let them escape so easily, seeing that the books would be very interesting, he requested both standing orders and several small books. Before leaving the city, I went to two international book shops. One book shop bought several books, and the other shop, an enterprise, wanted to translate two of your books into Yugoslavian language."

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She said, how many rounds should she chant? Every day she does some meditation, so before meditating, she wants to know, how many rounds should she chant?

Prabhupāda: Well, with chanting you can meditate. The Deities are there. So you can think of the Deities—that is meditation—and chant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there a certain number of rounds you would recommend for her?

Prabhupāda: That is minimum... Because these people are not accustomed, only sixteen rounds.

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She wants like personal day-to-day instructions, which she says she gets from meditation.

Prabhupāda: That you become qualified, then He'll give you. First of all be qualified to meet Him, then He'll give you. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. What is that verse? Find out.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ yena mām upayānti te.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām...

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Satyaṁ vada mā likha. You can criticize them with your mouth, but don't put into writing. That will create a section of enemy. Then we'll have to fight with the enemy one after another. That will be wasting of time and energy. What is the use of criticizing them? They are failure. Failure. Finish. Let us prove by action that all others are failures. And they will be automatically. Just like the Bala-yogi is failure now. (chuckles) Whatever it is. The Transcendental Meditation is going to be failure. And so many others. To criticize them means to give them some importance, that "the rival to Hare Kṛṣṇa." We don't care for them. We go on positively, and automatically they are failure.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That, it does not mention about the Transcendental Meditation?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they never mention. There's nothing... They don't get taken to court, Transcendental Meditation, because there's really no... They don't demand anything of their followers. They just say, "Every day take off fifteen minutes and sleep," or something.

Śatadhanya: They have no philosophy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing. There's nothing to anger anybody. Simply the main thing is that it's a big hoax. So now it's being investigated by the...

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. It's being investigated by a Congressional subcommittee in America now, Transcendental Meditation. But there's no individual parents getting angry because it doesn't change anything.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't make you change any different. Actually no one even recognizes any difference after following it. They're fools to begin with, and they come out fools at the end. It says here, it quotes Dr. Stillson Judah. Unfortunately it doesn't quote Dr. Stillson Judah right about us. It seems that Stillson Judah has also written a book about Moon. So it's quoting, "Stillson Judah of the Graduate Theological Union shows a small core of membership, three thousand in the case of the Moonies." It says here that "But through persistent evangelic efforts these groups are winning new converts and attain fiscal stability."

Prabhupāda: I think that Maharishi is therefore in Hrishikesh. He's afraid of being arrested or something like that.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Transcendental meditation." What meditation? Fifteen minutes—finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it helps you sleep better. They claim that Transcendental Meditation helps you sleep more soundly.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. And life is meant for sleeping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To the Western karmīs, sleep is a luxury, 'cause they have no peace of mind. So anything that can give them sleep, they like 'cause they can't get to sleep. They try pills, so many things. Of course, we don't sleep much either, but that is by choice. I tried one of those balls of bread. In America we call them "cannonballs."

Prabhupāda: Which ball?

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. Big personality. And because of the fact that he was an important member of the faculty at Harvard, so even though all he produced was an intoxicant, he gave it so much explanation, that "This is..."

Prabhupāda: Transcendental meditation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, this is transcendental. "This is real psychotherapy," he called it. He made it seem like this is legitimate, this is a bona fide experiment, just like you go to a psychologist or psychiatrist. He tried to explain it as a medical drug for helping the mind. But as a result of it so many people became crazy by using it.

Prabhupāda: Howling.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Elders should be careful to give sound knowledge based on objective evidence to their children. Unfortunately a lot of delusional ideas are put into the minds of children in the name of religion. Dāsa and Swami talk about rebirth, soul, Supreme Soul, life generating matter, etc.... As a result of such delusional ideas put into them by deluded Indian God-man, Prabhupāda, who founded the bizarre cult know as Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Oh, he's a real demon, this man. Kṛṣṇa has a place already put aside for him. His science won't help him at that time. "Knowledge and enlightenment cannot be had through meditation, which is only a form of self-hypnosis. Dāsa and Swami ask whether scientists can make a chicken to come out of a plastic egg. I do not know whether they are aware that scientists have made over ten elements, such as fermium, (indistinct), serium..." That's all right. We're asking about a chicken. We're not asking about the elements.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, you are simply producing empty sound. Where is the chicken? Rascal. The chicken, the hen, is greater scientist than you. (S)he'll produced another egg within a week. You simply "This, that, this, that, this, that," that's all. "Left, right, that way." What is your value? We don't give you value. Less important than the chicken.

Page Title:Meditation (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:07 of Apr, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=114, Let=0
No. of Quotes:114