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Low-class (Conversations and Letters)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Haridāsa, Śrīnivāsa, and Advaita. They were taking part. Otherwise, all, they were young friends, yes. Young boys. No girls. That is not the system in India. (laughs) Yes. Now when the second scene, mainly their movement was going on and it was becoming popular. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that simply by the saṅkīrtana movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything. So the priest class brāhmaṇas they became very much dissatisfied that "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others..." Because according to Hindu society, except the brāhmaṇas... Especially in those days, only the brāhmaṇas were considered the highest in the society, and even the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they all calculated to, in the group of śūdras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone, the Muhammadans, the śūdras, the low class, the high class, the brāhmaṇas... He was amalgamating everyone. So these brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "He is making a disastrous movement! The prestige of the brāhmaṇas will go." So they became very much dissatisfied and they concluded that "We shall go to the magistrate and file our complaint that He is doing against Hindu religion and He's crying always 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa' loudly. The Lord is sleeping. He will be disturbed and there will be disaster, Lord being angry." In this way they filed complaint. Ask anything, questions.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (4): What is the purpose of Vedas?

Prabhupāda: The purpose is gradually to bring them...

Indian man (4): But he...

Prabhupāda: ...not that all of a sudden that you say "No, you cannot eat."

Indian man (4): He..., all of a sudden he talks about Vaiṣṇavas who are above all these low-class fellows. Vaiṣṇavas are much above all those meat-eaters, then who is instructing the Vaiṣṇavas?

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇavas should go to sacrifice. (Hindi)

Indian man (3): There is no... Hindu, aren't the Hindus...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You are mixing the Hindu, Muslim, and Vaiṣṇava...

Indian man (3): I don't think I am so fool like that, to mix up Hinduism with Buddhism. I think you have little be...

Prabhupāda: But you don't hear me, that is the difference.

Indian man (3): I'm hearing you perfectly well, but I'm very quick to grasp it, that is the misfortune of me.

Prabhupāda: You are quick to deviate, that is the point. You do not hear.

Indian man (3): How can you... (laughs) How can you say I'm in...

Prabhupāda: That is the... That is your alpa-medhasaḥ. You cannot understand. What I'm speaking you do not understand.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Somebody is thinking of money, somebody is thinking of woman. These two things, money and woman, and whole struggle (indistinct). The Musselman nawabs, they used to keep... That one nawab, they have got his quarters in Lucknow, he had 160 wives. Even in recent, you know this (name withheld)? His elder brother, (name withheld), practically he is the origin of the (name withheld) concern. So I was a guest of the (indistinct). So he has got three wives—one Bengali wife, one (indistinct) wife, and his original wife being Jain. He had three, four wives. And each wife's establishment, ten thousand rupees per month. So he is earning money and he is spending it. Earning money by black market, this way, that way, and his whole day's business is that go to some wife's house, remain there for some hours, then next wife, remain there for some hours, and he thinks, "I am a king." Still he is living. He is of my age, old man. And each wife has got dozens of children. They're not his.

Devotee (2): He cannot keep them satisfied.

Prabhupāda: How it is possible? He's an old man and the wives are young. But they have got dozens of children, and he is trying to give each child five lakhs of rupees. That is to keep the wife. Everyone is trying that. Natural affection, beget children as many as you like, and then bring money and give them. That is (indistinct). This is that heart disease. How you can stop it? The rascals, they do not know it cannot be done. The lower class, still they are maintaining. Manager class, the worker class. That is going on. That higher and lower level must continue in the material world. You cannot stop it. Individually, nationally, communally.

Devotee (1): They have simply taken the sides of the low class against the upper class.

Prabhupāda: That is a sympathy. But you cannot change it. That is not possible. It is very good sympathy.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa:

iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ
guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā
vimṛśyaitad aśeṣeṇa
yathecchasi tathā kuru
(BG 18.63)

"Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now if you say, "Why the soul should become so foolish?" So that is misuse of independence. Intelligent father has got intelligent son, but sometimes he becomes a fool. So what is the reason? He is the part and parcel of the father. He should have become exactly like the father. But he does not become like the father. I have seen. In Allahabad was a big lawyer, barrister, Mr. Bannerjee. His eldest son was also barrister and his youngest son, on account of bad association, he became a ekala wala. Ekala means... In India there is a carriage drawn by one horse. So he liked to be an ekala. That means he fell in love, a low class of woman, and by her association, he became an ekala. There are many instances. The Ajamila upakhyana. He was a brāhmaṇa and then he fell down very low. So this misuse of independence is always there.

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in what śāstra is that recipe given for gold?

Prabhupāda: In the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. Not recipe. The comparison is there in Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. Perhaps purposefully the recipe is not given so that you can take and misuse this. (laughter) And forget chanting. Because as soon as you get gold, then you are no more interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the infection of gold.

Paramahaṁsa: But I have gold.

Prabhupāda: No, you have gold. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not great quantities.

Paramahaṁsa: Originally when I came to the movement I asked you this, remember? And you gave lectures on the subject, and I asked you about it. And you asked me for what purpose I wanted it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't wonder you. But the gold has got such infection that if one... That is the whole world, that as soon as one has gold, he is no more interested with God. That is the infection. "Ah!" He will say, "This is meant for the poor class of men who has no gold. I have gold. I am God." You know that Kali-yuga. He was punished, that "You get out." Then he said that "Where shall I go? Everywhere is your kingdom." Then Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that "You go here, in the brothel, in the..., these four things." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ: "Illicit sex, and slaughterhouse, and liquor shop, and gambling." Then he requested that "Instead of going so many places, you give me some place where one place will be sufficient." Then he said, "You go where there is gold. Then you get everything." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ. Formerly, especially in Bengal, the gold merchants are taken as—that is artificial, of course—the low class because they are rich, and they indulge in these four kinds of prohibition. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- August 4, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Big fish? (laughter)

Ambarīṣa: That's a catfish.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ambarīṣa: A catfish.

Prabhupāda: Cat?

Brahmānanda: A very low-class fish. It eats the stool of the other fish.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Black? It is black?

Mādhavānanda: Yes. Black. Yes.

Prabhupāda: We call magur mach. One who cannot digest anything, he is recommended to eat this fish, magur mach. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One living entity is the life of another living entity. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 13, 1976, Calcutta:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was saying that to Jayapatāka, that they're Mongolians. So the same criticism that everyone has said against you.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That you are making mlecchas and yavanas brāhmaṇas. I think that that Mongoloid race is also considered like that.

Prabhupāda: I do not follow what you say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, my point is that they're always feeling that you are creating brāhmaṇas amongst such low-class persons. So I see that they...

Prabhupāda: If I am creating brāhmaṇas, how he is low class?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we don't agree that he is low class.

Prabhupāda: No, no. If he says we are creating brāhmaṇa, then where is low class? From logical point of view.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, from low class to high class, he says.

Prabhupāda: Actually, everyone is Brahman. So from this conditioned life of non-Brahman, if we create Brahman, what is the wrong there?

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is the government? I don't care for them, these politicians. In America I never attempted to see the politicians, secretary and... Never attempted. I was sitting down under the tree and playing my dundubhi.

Dayānanda: Yes. For one year the Marquis of Zetland was interested, and then what is the use? After that, then finished.

Prabhupāda: Finished.

Dayānanda: Just five hundred pounds spent in two years, and then nothing.

Prabhupāda: Then nothing.

Dayānanda: In 1933-34. But you have, you have done so much. Even, even though you just had some low-class persons, you have transformed them all. And now it is a very wonderful...

Prabhupāda: The Ramakrishna Mission man came to see me. He said that "You dress like American. Otherwise, nobody will take you as important."

Acyutānanda: Nikhilananda...

Prabhupāda: "And I don't want to be important. I have no dress. If you pay for it, I can dress. I have no money. I know how to dress as a European. As business man, I was doing that. But not this shabby dress. You must give me four set of nice dress, (laughter) changing every alternate day. I know how to do it, but have no money."

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is the government? I don't care for them, these politicians. In America I never attempted to see the politicians, secretary and... Never attempted. I was sitting down under the tree and playing my dundubhi.

Dayānanda: Yes. For one year the Marquis of Zetland was interested, and then what is the use? After that, then finished.

Prabhupāda: Finished.

Dayānanda: Just five hundred pounds spent in two years, and then nothing.

Prabhupāda: Then nothing.

Dayānanda: In 1933-34. But you have, you have done so much. Even, even though you just had some low-class persons, you have transformed them all. And now it is a very wonderful...

Prabhupāda: The Ramakrishna Mission man came to see me. He said that "You dress like American. Otherwise, nobody will take you as important."

Acyutānanda: Nikhilananda...

Prabhupāda: "And I don't want to be important. I have no dress. If you pay for it, I can dress. I have no money. I know how to dress as a European. As business man, I was doing that. But not this shabby dress. You must give me four set of nice dress, (laughter) changing every alternate day. I know how to do it, but have no money."

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Ambarīṣa: The cities are simply becoming for the low-class people. Cities are simply filled now with the low-class people. No respectable people can walk safely in the streets.

Devotee (1): In Detroit at five o'clock it becomes like a ghost town. No one walking. They are all afraid. If low-class people move into the buildings, everything becomes rundown, not kept up. So now they're investing millions and millions of dollars to build new buildings, new stores, to make it attractive again.

Prabhupāda: They'll not attempt to make the low-class men high class. Huh? Why they are lacking that point?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually the high-class man and the low-class man, their activities are the same. Simply they are living in bigger and smaller houses. They smoke the same cigarettes and they drink the same.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say why not make them high class.

Hari-śauri: There's no high-class men to teach them.

Prabhupāda: We are there.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So in Detroit they do not go on the street?

Hari-śauri: No, not in the local neighborhood.

Prabhupāda: So far, there was no disturbance.

Hari-śauri: No, not while we were there.

Prabhupāda: No, before that.

Hari-śauri: No, they haven't reported any disturbance.

Prabhupāda: And the black men, they come also?

Hari-śauri: Yes, I think they are...

Prabhupāda: Sympathetic.

Hari-śauri: Yes, because the devotees are not prejudiced in any way. We have white devotees and we have black devotees also. And if the neighbors want to come and see the place, then they are allowed in and shown around. We are about the only ones who could possibly live there.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: We are the only ones that could live there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (long pause) What is the reason they are given equal facility, still they are so wretched, poor, ruffian?

Hari-śauri: Just low class. There's no intelligence how to utilize their wealth correctly.

Prabhupāda: Same thing in Africa.

Hari-śauri: I think you gave that example. If you give... If there's a dog and you put him on a king's throne, (Prabhupāda laughs) he'll still come and lick your feet.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll lick up shoes. Another example is given: (Bengali saying) aṅgārā śveta... (indistinct). If you take a piece of coal, you can wash it hundreds and thousands of times, it never becomes white. And these are material things, but spiritually you can reform. It doesn't matter. If one comes to the spiritual platform then everything possible. Otherwise not.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: In the Vedic culture did they have sheep? Sheep herds? Did they keep sheep?

Prabhupāda: Who?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: For making, you know, the wool, woolen garments like the cap and cādara... Sometimes it's made out of wool. They would get from sheep?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, the meat-eaters cannot be stopped. They will eat meat. So they can kill the small animals, unimportant, not cow. Kṛṣṇa says, go-rakṣya. He never said lamb-rakṣya or hog-rakṣya. (laughs) You can eat hog. If it is decided that you must eat meat, then you can eat a nonimportant animal. We have no objection.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Or at least, as you said this morning, wait until the cow dies naturally.

Prabhupāda: That is another. Otherwise, if you want to kill, you kill less important animal.

Hari-śauri: Chickens.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Give protection to the cow, the source of milk.

Hari-śauri: In most rural districts formerly, even just sixty or seventy years ago, they used to do that. The used to keep a hog or some animals for killing. They would fatten them up and kill them.

Prabhupāda: Still in India, the low class, they keep hogs for killing. And they publicly kill the hog by burning outside the village skirt.

Hari-śauri: I can remember when I was a child that my grandfather, he had one pigsty. And the house we were living in, that also had a pigsty at the back. There were no pigs by the time I came, but only just a few years before they were doing that.

Prabhupāda: Why the government should keep slaughterhouse?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You asked them that in Mauritius, I remember. The government started a chicken slaughterhouse. You said, "Why the government should have slaughterhouse?" And they replied, "They will kill them anyway. There are so many Muslims." Prabhupāda said, "Let them kill, but why the government should support this slaughter?"

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So if I have acted like cats and dogs throughout whole life, naturally I shall think like cats and dogs at the time of death. Then next life is cats and dogs. So I may be worshiped here in a statue, that "Here is our beloved prime minister," and next life, I'm barking as a dog. Then what is the benefit?

Mr. Boyd: Well, that might depend on what kind of prime minister you were.

Prabhupāda: No, that is possible, I can become prime minister or any big man. But if I do not work properly, if I work like animal, then my next life is animal. There is no consideration that "Here is a prime minister, why he should become a dog?" Nature will act. If you infect some disease, you may be prime minister or you may be a common man, if you have infected that disease, you must suffer from that disease. That is nature's law. There is no consideration that "Here is prime minister. He has infected the malaria germs. He should not suffer." Nature's law if not like that. Just like you say that in India there is malaria. So your daughter was not excused, that "Here is a girl coming of very respectable, good family. She should be excused." No excuse. You have infected malaria germ, you must suffer. So similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). We are associating with different modes of material nature, and according to our association, sat, asat, good birth or low-class birth is there—either as demigods in the higher planetary system or human being in the middle planetary system or as animals, low class. There are three classes of birth. That depends on our association with the modes of material nature—goodness, passion or ignorance. So at least in the human form of life nobody should be kept in ignorance. The facility must be given. That is civilization. Every human being should have the greatest opportunity to make his life successful. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Every human being is open to accept the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and make his life successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is our propaganda, to give everyone the facility of perfection of life. Now somebody may take or somebody may not take, but the basic principle of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to offer everyone the best facility.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: What would you classify as demigods, then?

Prabhupāda: Demigod means just like you or me, ordinary living being, but they are very pious. On account of their piety they have got very good post. Just like janma... There are four: to get birth in very high, aristocratic family; to become very learned scholar; to become beautiful in bodily feature. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26): high parentage, birth, to take birth in aristocratic family, in brāhmaṇa family, or very exalted royal family. This is janma. And śruta, to become very learned scholar. Janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich. Janmaiśvarya-śruta, śruta means education, and śrī, bodily beauty. These things are obtained on account of piety, pious activities. And just the opposite, low-class family, lowborn, no money, always poverty-stricken, no education, no bodily beauty, these are the results of impious activities. So the demigods means on account of their pious activities they get the situation in higher planet where the duration of life is ten thousands of years, and their one day is equal to our six months. Such ten thousands of years. Very beautiful body, facilities. There... The other day I was reading about the bodily construction of woman there. They are ever-young, the chest is very hard. (laughs) It is stated, yes. So such class of women is there, and aiśvarya, nandana-kānana, so many things. The roads are paved with pearls and jewels, not these pebbles. In the higher planetary system there is facility for higher standard of material comforts. So they get there birth and enjoy for ten thousand of years. But it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. As soon as they spend up their resultant action of pious activities, then again drop down, kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. And again begins life from the grass. They fall down with rains, and then they grow as grass. Then evolutional life begins, from plant life to insect life, to insect life to bird's life.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's asking why can't your disciples from the West in particular, who are low-class particular people, like the Mohammedans, as traditional, they are not allowed in the Jagannātha Purī temple.

Prabhupāda: That is their fault. They should not have done so. That is their, what is called? Sectarian prejudice.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: You told us in Madras that your Guru Mahārāja used to call them the Muragī Mission.

Prabhupāda: Another Godbrother used to say Muragī Mission, Chicken Mission. (laughter) He was so much against this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda, so much. He knew all history of Ramakrishna. He became impotent. He was woman-hunter and therefore uneducated. In the village he was simply hunting after this low-class woman. Therefore his brother got him married. When he was married he was impotent. So therefore he planned, "Oh, I see everyone mother. You are my mother." And people said, "Oh, he's so realized that even his wife is his mother." Rascal. Where is that another person in the Vedic culture, Vyāsadeva, or, they are also married, who has called his wife mother?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone but the wife.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why one should not call a wife a mother? Is that very great advancement? But this rascal was impotent, he had no other alternative, so he manufactured some idea and people thought, "Oh, he's so devotee of goddess of Kālī that he sees even his wife as mother." This story he told me by Guru Mahārāja personally. He was talking with me privately somewhere, although I was a bad householder. (laughs) He was very kind upon me. And whatever is being done by his blessing, that's all.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: He is so rich(?) man. He cannot get nice food even, the primary necessity. Getting jaundice.

Jayatīrtha: The main reason why he doesn't.... I think he got jaundice because, he admitted, is that he had Ravi Shankar's brother cooking for him.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: He had Kumar Shankar, the brother of Ravi Shankar, cooking for him. So this man is a demon; therefore he is becoming sick.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are all drunkards, all third-class men, fourth-class men, low-class men. In India, this naṭas, they are third class, fourth class. Naṭas means the artist class, singer, dancers. They are meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. It was never taken by the.... They are called, and they will expertly sing, dance, in some festival. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they were not doing. Still in India there is a class, very expert in dancing, singing, low class. Their hereditary business is like that.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Bhagavān: So you have given everything. You have given all the structure. We have to present it rightly.

Prabhupāda: Even, say, hundred years ago, that Girish Chandra Ghosh, he wanted to introduce theatrical performances, imitating the European theatrical performances, man and woman taking part. So he wanted to invite woman artist. Not a single woman joined. Who will go to public stage to dance, respectable girl? They'll never. That is hundred years. I am speaking, say, about forty years ago. In one of our Dayanika(?) men, the girl was to be married, and it is the custom in India—the bridegroom's party comes to see the girl, whether she is right. Similarly, the girl's party goes to see the.... So they came to see one of my friend's daughter, and the daughter is very beautiful, rich man's daughter. So one of the bridegroom's party questioned, "You know how to dance?" That was the question to the girl: "You have learned something about dancing and singing?" So she was my friend's daughter, my, that friend, Mukunda Mati. His elder brother was there. He became very angry, that "This rascal is asking our daughter whether she knows dancing and singing." She took it as.... He took it as insult, that "Respectable family, daughter should learn how to dance, how to sing?" So immediately he protested, "No, no, no, she does not know how to dance, how to sing. She's not meant for that purpose. We like, of course, a young girl dancing and singing, but we cannot teach our family members. We spend for that outside. You cannot expect our Mullik's family daughter dancing and singing. No. He is well, good(?)." Actually that is.... Dancing? Singing? What is this nonsense? For a respectable family? It is meant for the low-class professional. Pay them, they will dance. Or go to some prostitute. She will dance. So he said that "We have got some taste for dancing, but not that our family members should do that. We pay for that outside." So this art.... And among the theatrical, Girish Chandra Ghosh could not get a single response from any respectable family. Then he had to seek some young girl from the prostitute class. They became later on famous artists, Kusumakali Dāsī, this Dāsī.... Nowadays it has become a fashion that aristocratic family should join this cinema and spoil their character. Otherwise it was meant for the.... No respectable man.... You find the Bhāgavata description, especially for the brāhmaṇas, the professional who would come. They'll take their reward.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, we have no attachment. We can sit down, in this nice building, we can sit down anywhere. We are not attached to this building; we are attached to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our business. And unconditionally we can push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is not that if we don't get a nice building as Atreya Ṛṣi has supplied, then we cannot push on. No. That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like I began this movement underneath a tree in New York, Tompkinson Square, what is that?

Devotees: Tompkins Square Park.

Prabhupāda: I used to sit down there. There was no mṛdaṅga. A small dundubi. And I was chanting three hours—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And people used to come.

Nava-yauvana: In a very bad neighborhood. Very low-class neighborhood.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Low-class, high-class, we don't mind. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That 26 Second Avenue also not very good neighborhood.

Jñānagamya: It's the worst place in the country. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: But I did not know. Mukunda suggested this is good place, all right, live here. And actually happened to be good place. Gradually, all my disciples came. So I had no disturbance. I was living in the Bowery Street, and on my door these bums were lying with urine and wine bottles and everything. Still, they were so respectful. When I'll come, "Yes, you can enter. Please." (laughter) I had no quarrel with them. They were very kind. They welcomed me, they opened the door, "Please go." They also knew that "He's a harmless..." So, platform, if you remain on the spiritual platform, this material condition cannot hamper you. Ahaituky apratihatā.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: I'm amazed that... When someone tastes something, a nice fruit, something pleasant, he remembers, appreciates that, even in material world. How could someone see God and come from a source as powerful and lovable as that and then forget? How could he forget so easily and become so badly attached to this materialism? Why is it that we are so far? I know it's in due course to my actions.

Prabhupāda: That tendency is here. Because we are very small fragment of spiritual identity, that tendency is there. The example is given, just like fire and spark of the fire. The fire and the spark, the spark is very small, but it is fire. And the big fire, together they look very beautiful. With the fire, when the sparks come-sput sput—so many sparks, it looks very beautiful. But the sparks sometimes fall down from the original fire. Then it is no more fire. It is fire, but it's extinguished. The illumination is over. So we are small particles of God. God is big fire; we are small particles of God. So we are playing with the big fire very nice, but there is chance of falling down. That chance is there. The big fire does not fall. The big fire is always blazing. But the small fire, although it is possessing the same quality of fire, it may fall down. So we are small particle, very, very small, atomic portion God. Therefore we have got the tendency to be separated from the big fire, and then we begin our material body. Just like another crude example, just like a very rich man's son, he's enjoying life. Sometimes he thinks, "Why not independently live? Why dependent of father?" He goes out and he becomes a hippie. There are many examples. He was living very comfortably, rich man's son, but he left the house of his father and became a hippie. There are many practical examples. Why does he do so? I have seen in Allahabad one big lawyer, very famous lawyer, Ferolal Bannerji. He had two sons. One son became a good barrister like him, and another son became a car-wala, driving a car. The reason was that this son, a car-wala, he fell in love with a low-class woman, and he preferred to remain a car-wala.

Hari-śauri: What is that?

Prabhupāda: Low-class woman. So she was living in a cottage, hut, cottage. So out of love he also preferred that "I shall live with her, and I shall drive a car." So that is independence. He preferred. So that discrimination preference is there always. You can prefer a low-grade life out of your discretion. Nobody can check you. And by cultivation of knowledge, you can become a big man. The two tendencies are there. There is no stereotyped idea. Otherwise, he has no independence. Who was speaking of that owl? There is an animal, owl. He doesn't like to remain in the sunlight. So that is also an animal. He is also eating, sleeping, mating, but he doesn't like the sunlight. What can you do? So God has given him all facility to remain as an owl, in darkness. That is God's kindness.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the spiritual world, what is love, that is in the material world lust.

Harikeśa: Then you agree with me?

Jñānagamya: Yes, you are right, but you do not understand where that lust is coming from. That lust is perverted from Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Obstinate. It is perverted reflection of love. Actually, it is... They say it is love. The sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana, they have got connection with woman. If you criticize them, say "Why you are connected with illicit sex?" "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say it is love.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: What is their definition of love?

Prabhupāda: Rascals, they are all... These sahajiyās, you'll find most of them illiterate. Not a single of them is even literate, they are so low class. Most of them they come to Vṛndāvana... Why Vṛndāvana? There are many other places. Their aim is woman and money. Just like these swamis and yogis, they come.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To the West.

Prabhupāda: Simply the ultimate goal is women and money. You may become whatever you may become. You become a yogi, you become a bābājī, you become a swami, but the ultimate goal is a woman and money. That's all.

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:

Prabhupāda: So the spiritual movement means to take up the spirit soul within the body and to elevate him from the conditioned life. That is spiritual movement. He has been put into condition. So that action can be taken without any hindrances. Without any impediment. Ahaituky apratihatā. That verse I was speaking yesterday, that without any cause, without any impediments, the soul can be raised by the process. Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Never mind one is born in low class family, poor, ugly, uneducated family. It doesn't matter. But he can be raised. What is the process? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. "One has to take shelter of Me." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. We are giving equal chance everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Pāpa-yoni means low class, poor, uneducated, ugly, no education. That is pāpa-yoni. So they can be raised. Kṛṣṇa says. How? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. If he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is the topmost welfare activities in the human society. Anyone can be raised. There are different grades of life all over the world. Some are black, some are white, some are ugly, some are poor.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: How they can defeat us? We have got so solid ground. How they can defeat, these rascals? We consider them simply rascals and fools. And we call them rascals and fools. What do they know of religion? What do they know of God? They know slaughterhouse and killing and illicit sex, and killing the fetus. That's all. What do they know? They are not even civilized. We have come to make them civilized. They should understand. They are not civilized. They do not (know) how to eat even. The first principle of life is eating. They do not know how to eat. We are teaching them how to eat. They simply challenge, that's... When men are uncivilized, they do not how to grow food, they kill animals in the jungle and eat. When they are civilized, they know how to grow food now and the nice food grains, fruit, flowers, now why should say, "You eat the meat." The meat-eating is meant for the most uncivilized persons. That means they do not know even how to eat. They do not know how to eat. How to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. Nothing. They're having sex like cats and dogs. No marriage, girl's friend, boy's friend, and then illegitimate... So many things. They should be exposed. And there is no harm exposing, in truth. Simply by manufacturing, constructing a big, high skyscraper building, does it mean he is civilized? It is passionate work. They can take credit of a good mistri, just like so many mistris, they construct. I cannot do. Does it mean I am less than him? I could not construct this temple. I have to call some low class, a builder and company, they constructed. Does it meant he is higher in intelligence than me? They are giving credit, "Oh, now they have constructed skyscraper building. They have constructed motorcar, horseless carriage." They are taking credit on this. But this is not civilization. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given the formula of civilization, three words: matṛvat para dāreṣu. Where is that civilization? To consider every woman as mother. Except one's own married wife, all women, mother. Where is that civilization? That should be, otherwise there cannot be social regulation. Matṛvat para dāreṣu para dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, other's property is just like garbage in the street. Nobody touches the garbage. That is civilization. So Mr. Pillay... (break)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big ṛṣis. Sex life with animals also there is... Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyāsadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyāsadeva was born, Satyavatī. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parāśara Muni became attracted. And Vyāsadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Bṛhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatās, he became so much mad for his brother's wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahmā became attracted with his daughter. Lord Śiva became attracted with the beauty of Mohinī-mūrti, even in the presence of his wife. So this sex life can be controlled only by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise there is no... The Bhāgavata has discussed all this because in this material world there is no escape unless we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, from the sex impulse. It is not possible. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa... When one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he'll reject all this nonsense: "What is this?" Bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu. He'll spite (spit): "Eh! Get out. Is that enjoyment?" It is possible for a Kṛṣṇa conscious... No other can do it. And that is the bondage. He'll have to work hard for maintaining sex issues. And so long you are bound up by the karmas, you have to accept another body and then continue. Who knows this how we are bound up and conditioned? If you talk in the modern society they will laugh: "What nonsense this man is... 'By sex life one becomes conditioned.' " They cannot understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyāsīs. And those sannyāsīs who have fallen, you get them married, live like a... No more this showbottle, cheating. It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that "We shall not fall down again," that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your gṛhastha dress, not this dress, but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and śikhā are speaking. That is very prestigious everywhere. Why this false dress? What is the wrong to become gṛhastha? I was gṛhastha, pākā caliber gṛhastha. My Guru Mahārāja was brahmacārī, This is ever... Just see his character. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was gṛhastha, but when He took sannyāsa: "Oh, I am now..." For sober person. That is wanted. That is ideal. He married twice. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura married twice. Caitanya Mahāprabhu married twice. What is the wrong there? One has to become pure devotee, that's all.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: "Jesus... Jesus had to speak to rascals and fools like you. Therefore he did not speak." This is the argument. "Because you are such a fool that Jesus said, 'Thou shall not kill'—your first business was to kill him. So you are so nice, advanced men. Now, what he'll speak to you? He knew that you are all rascals. Even the one word you cannot understand, 'Thou shall not kill.' So what you will understand? Therefore Jesus Christ did not say." Give them this answer. Jesus Christ was perfect, but because you are rascals, he did not say, because you could not understand even his one word. You are so intelligent. His commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but your business is to kill him first. How far you are advanced and civilized, just imagine. And you want perfect instruction. You cannot follow even one instruction. That is your position. In this way try to understand. "Jesus had to deal with rascals like you. Therefore he... Even ordinary moral principles, you could not, what to speak of other things." Actually that is the fact. Actually that is the fact. He had to deal with rascals and fools. Is that civilization, that first of all argue, "Thou shall not kill"? That means you were all rascals engaged in killing business. Is that civilized men? Why he said like that? Is that very good philosophy? Mean they were so low class that they had to be stopped first of all, these sinful activities. That also, they could not. This is their position. And for the last two thousand years they could not. Such nice brain. They could not understand even one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are proud of becoming Christian, rascals. "You do not know what is Christianity, what is Jesus Christ. You are all rascals." Tell them like that. What do you think?

Rāmeśvara: That's indefeatable, undefeatable argument.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You could not understand.

Rāmeśvara: "Thou shall not kill..."

Prabhupāda: Although he spoke very cautiously, still you could not do it.

Rāmeśvara: "Thou shall not commit adultery."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We can take help from Indira Gandhi if we bring recommendation from the embassy.

Ādi-keśava: Right. Another thing is sometimes the intellectuals, they are backing us, and the very low class people, they also like us very much because they feel... The black people feel, for instance, that we are being persecuted like they have been persecuted. But the middle class people, they are the ones who are against us, and they are by far the greatest number.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: So I'm wondering what is the best way to influence them in our trial.

Prabhupāda: They will not. Because our all men are coming from middle class, so they are already against us because their sons have joined. How they can be in our favor?

Ādi-keśava: I don't see any way. (Prabhupāda chuckles) We go to the court and the judges always say...

Prabhupāda: But there are many fathers and mothers, they have... Mothers, they have appreciated our... So as far as possible, take... But because they are concerned, they have lost their children—they are against us.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He is well known. (break) (reading:) "The only remedy lies in the ending of their subservience to the higher castes and securing for them economic independence. But according to the Bhāgavatam, a śūdra can never be given economic independence. If they want economic independence, they should elevate themselves to the higher castes."

Prabhupāda: It will not become higher caste. They do not know. Economic independence, who is checking now? There is no such check all over the world. Just like in Bombay. Everyone can do business. So why they cannot do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they are not intelligent enough.

Prabhupāda: That means they have no intelligence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means they are śūdra. And if someone is a śūdra, how can you let him have his own money?

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, everything requires intelligence. If you haven't got that standard of intelligence, how you can do it? Nowadays, suppose if you do some business, is there a hindrance that "You are low class, you cannot do this business." Neither the government nor the society. You can do it. Why you cannot do it? Just like in Bengal, the Marwaris are rich and Bengalis are... Their land, their country, and their naturals. And the Marwaris have big (indistinct). It is your incapability. Why don't you admit that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at this question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It says "Who are these harijanas? What is their origin? What sins did they commit?"

Prabhupāda: Then you answer that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we can answer these questions. Yes, they did commit sins. Therefore they are in this position.

Prabhupāda: Don't say... Harijana means the person associated with God.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But these men are... I mean their position... Everyone is getting what he deserves. So if they are in a downtrodden...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). This is the science.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Ram Jethmalani: (laughing) You don't blame me.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, it is not blaming, it is fact. It is the real understanding. Without evidence, without proof, how law can be established? That's a good method. So he is speaking like lawyer, that "You want evidence, you want witness: see here." Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So that is five hundred years ago. Now in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement you see practically. Drunkards, illicit sex-hunters, and so on, so on, they have become saintly persons. This is the effect of it. So... And Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). It doesn't matter. Pāpa-yoni. According to our Vedic system, low-class, those who are born in low-grade family, they are called pāpa-yoni. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, lower than that—śūdrādhaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They are called pāpa-yoni, untouchables. Of course, nowadays these things cannot go on. But these are there. So Kṛṣṇa says, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Anyone born in anywhere, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mām eva vyapāśritya. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, everyone can be elevated. So what is this harijana? We can do.

Ram Jethmalani: Well, some of these slum-dwellers are not harijanas and some of them are Muslims, some of them are...

Prabhupāda: Anyone, anyone. You see. My all disciples, they are coming. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, every kind. Mostly they are my disciples.

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who can understand that description in the Fifth Canto rightly, it is... There is no question of whether he's spiritually advanced or not. It is simply academic qualification.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, that is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It has nothing to do with spiritual understanding.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why not let them come here now immediately.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're here now.

Prabhupāda: So arrange to bring them here.

Patita-pāvana: I will do that. We can arrange for some apartment for them to stay.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Patita-pāvana: The one man, he only eats what his wife cooks, so he has to have some kitchen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we have your... If you like, we have your old quarters.

Patita-pāvana: But that is upstairs. His wife cannot climb stairs. That is... That's why I liked Māyāpur, because all those apartments are on the wall.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they're also upstairs. In Māyāpur everything's up the stairs also. There's nothing that...

Patita-pāvana: But on the wall...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Front wall?

Patita-pāvana: Yeah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no one can live there. It's too low class.

Prabhupāda: No, in our new house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still have to go up.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Both of them are very old?

Patita-pāvana: No. The wife is rather old. He has some problem with lungs. He's about sixty-five. The other is seventy-two. The other one walks like a Sherman tank, very powerful.

Prabhupāda: So we cannot give...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What we could do...

Prabhupāda: Here there is no difficulty with lift.

Patita-pāvana: With the lift, yes. Fine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but they're... I mean, there's no problem for getting them here to see you. The problem is whether they can..., where they will live, their residential quarters.

Girirāja: I was thinking of the Chand Society.

Prabhupāda: That's nice, Chand Society. There are three rooms. That is very nice.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And just see democracy. People demanding that "You resign." He'll... (break) ...and from the very beginning, Pakistan is controlled by crooked men. They are Muhammadans, rascals, crooked, not cultured, crude. You won't find amongst the Muhammadans very great mathematicians, philosophers, or highly... Very, very rare.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not considered a very high birth.

Prabhupāda: Condemned, especially the Indian Muhammadans. I had one friend. He is of Afghan... (background noise) What is the trouble?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just check...

Prabhupāda: So he was coming daily to see me in my pharmacy. We talked sometimes little intimately, friendly, with his son. So one day we were talking. Dr. Jīva also was attending. So one Muhammadan woman... They're very dirty. So she was passing to go to see doctor, and that... His name was Ser Khan. He belonged to the royal family of Afghanistan. So he was doing like this. So I said, "You hate Muhammadans? She is Muhammadan woman." "Oh, we don't accept Muhammadan. They are (indistinct)." That means Indian Muhammadans are not even accepted by the Muhammadans in other countries.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was a Muhammadan.

Prabhupāda: He was Muhammadan, Afghanistan, very royal family.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So he was doing... "Well, she is Muhammadan woman. You hate?" "Oh! They are not Muhammadans. We don't accept Muhammadan." These are my personal experience. They do not accept. Turkey also refused. When there were wars the, some of the Muhammadan leaders, Muhammad Ali, they wanted to present himself. He refused to accept. He said, "Go! You are not to see your business." His name was... He was very famous man. So they want to mix with the other Muhammadan countries like Afghanistan, Turkey... (break) They do not like. And actually it is a fact. Indian Muhammadans means all low-class Hindus, they converted into. Christian also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: And no brāhmaṇas were converted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: They did not accept. Therefore we see there is indirect indifference with our temple. Did you mark it? The high-class Hindus, they do not very much appreciate our...

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was... Actually I was also thinking about this management this morning. That's why when you called me I didn't come immediately. I was with Akṣayānanda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Akṣayānanda waiting for another man, and he is waiting for another man. And nobody comes. That's all. You are finished: "I am waiting for another..." And he'll be finished: "I am waiting for another." And he's finished: "I am waiting for..." Bas, finished business. There is no such arrangement that things are going on very nicely, automatically. That is not... Anyway... Every dining, every cooking should be there. First of all manage this. And cooking should be done in good place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This dining hall has been built here. They have a dining hall...

Prabhupāda: That can be used for other purposes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It shouldn't be used for the...?

Prabhupāda: No, one dining... That.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Devotees and paying guests...

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. No separate. One dining hall.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause in Māyāpur the people who live in the guesthouse, they get served in the guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: You have dining place here(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that a high-class person should be served where he's...

Prabhupāda: No, who is high class, low class? Everyone...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they can bring the prasāda from the cooking arrangement there to over here, it's all right if they serve them here? 'Cause I think the guests prefer that they can eat in this guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that plates can be brought.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. So we'll see to that first of all.

Prabhupāda: One store, one kitchen, one dining room. Bas. Not separate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not separate dining room.

Prabhupāda: That is not management. Such a big hall, such a big kitchen, sufficient. If some special per..., it can be done in that kitchen.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now your business is bring students. That is first duty. Let people convinced. Before going to the foreign countries, I had a very bad experience. I asked so many men to give students, Vedic students. "Swamiji, (Hindi) We have to earn money." Nobody wants that the children should be honest, brāhmaṇa, brahmacārī. Nobody wants. He wants all thieves, rogues, cunning cheater. "So the money bring." That is the difficulty. So you have to face this difficulty. But try to. (Hindi) Loafer class, śūdra, they want. (Hindi) Still, keep an ideal institution. That experience I had. When, before going foreign countries, I tried, all friends: "Swamiji, (Hindi)"

Dr. Sharma: Indians also?

Prabhupāda: Indians? Foreigners, they were hippies; they come.

Akṣayānanda: Before he went to America.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, being disappointed here, I went to America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means we have to canvass vigorously to get students.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: We have to preach.

Prabhupāda: That is the problem. Keep place ready, but you have to bring students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not going to come of their own. We have to go out and get them.

Prabhupāda: They will come later on, when they will see: "Yes..."

Yaśodānandana: First we have to get the ISKCON students first.

Prabhupāda: ISKCON or FISKCON, bring students. (laughter)

Dr. Sharma: Prabhupāda, these students can come, any number you like.

Prabhupāda: So that I want. I want the number. It doesn't matter ISKCON or FISKCON.

Dr. Sharma: No, I mean to say, free, no charge.

Prabhupāda: That means they'll not come from such a good family.

Dr. Sharma: Good family. That is the idea.

Guṇārṇava: They'll be low class.

Prabhupāda: So that you cannot do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those people don't need that education so much.

Prabhupāda: They should be trained up in the field, to the weaving practice or something like that. They don't require education.

Akṣayānanda: Intelligent class.

Prabhupāda: Intelligent class. We cannot make them interested. Some of them may come out, but not all. It is not possible.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Centers were meant for that purpose, for giving knowledge, not for show, a church, a show. What is knowledge?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we have our centers established.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we can concentrate on...

Prabhupāda: Giving knowledge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...vigorous preaching.

Prabhupāda: So I am not in favor of sending... They are not receptive at the present time. Here in Europe, although they are Communist, they are now hankering after some knowledge. These rascals are very uncivilized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chinese.

Prabhupāda: China, Japan. They are not taken as civilized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they are not, especially the Chin...

Prabhupāda: Dog-eaters, caṇḍāla. The dog-eaters are the lowest of the mankind. They are dog-eaters. In Europe they do not eat dog. And they're Indo-European stock. These are dog-eaters. They're rejected. We accept them as living entities, but their quality is the lowest. So they are not yet prepared to receive such exalted knowledge. Better let that book be pushed slowly. Let them become fit gradually. Then we'll go. For the time being, they are not fit. They can be expert in... You see in your country, so many Chinese are now... What was their business? There... They went there as craftsmen, as carpenter, as..., not as professor or teacher of philosophy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mostly... A lot of them have these laundries also.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Laundry. They are dentist.

Śatadhanya: Shoe-maker.

Prabhupāda: Shoe-maker. That is their business, low class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now the Indians are going there as professor, as teacher.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, lawyer...

Prabhupāda: Lawyer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doctors.

Prabhupāda: Doctors. That is the difference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually Indians are a big threat to these countries.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially England and America.

Prabhupāda: Canada also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Canada, yeah.

Prabhupāda: In Canada all big, big professors in university, they are Indians. In the education they are expert. That means they have got brain.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then we began to... I used to call his wife didi, as my sister, eldest sister. That man was old. At that time he was at least seventy years old. And his wife died, so he had no children, so he married again. Old husband, young wife, but the relationship was so nice, great devotee and the wife devoted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even though the husband was very old and the wife young.

Prabhupāda: Formerly even eighty years old, they used to marry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even?

Prabhupāda: Eighty years old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eight-years-old girl.

Prabhupāda: Eighty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eighty.

Prabhupāda: There were many cases.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What... I mean, what is the reason behind that? Isn't that very old to get married?

Prabhupāda: If he had no family member, he would marry again. (pause) But it was subject of criticism.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Must have been.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. But the custom was that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like someone should simply cultivate spiritual life at that age instead of...

Prabhupāda: In Bhāgavata there are many instances, very old man married. Anyway, this gentleman was such a nice devotee. Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was particularly nice about his devotional quality?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which devotional qualities particularly did he...?

Prabhupāda: Because later on he retired—he was a pleader—so whole day and night, simply devotee. Sometimes he would offer obeisances to the Deity. Actually he was old man. He'll fall asleep by... And he would remain in that two, three hours.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two or three hours? Wow. Wow. Completely devoted.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And daily he would go to the Ganges.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his name, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: His name was Nanda Dulal Phaini(?). So yesterday I was thinking of him, and I said it in my... I am being purified by thinking of him. All of a sudden.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the whole atmosphere... Because we were children, we were going here and there, the neighboring hoods (neighborhoods), all houses... Everyone devotee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Must have been a wonderful atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: Wonderful. We do not find such atmosphere now. Even maidservant, servant. Their character was not very good—still devotee(?). And this was the opportunity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Each of us is society.

Prabhupāda: Rādhā-Govinda Mandir. And the center was that Mulliks Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. This Mulliks, some of them were capitalist. Capitalist means rich men, they kept prostitute. But are still devotee. In the morning they would, after taking bath and everything, changing clothes, they must go to see Rādhā-Govinda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they liked to see Rādhā-Govinda.

Prabhupāda: They were devotee. Without seeing Rādhā-Govinda, they would not take their...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Was the Deity very nicely worshiped?

Prabhupāda: Oh, at that time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like in our temples. Really?

Prabhupāda: Dress, jewelry, and foodstuff, oh... Would offer kacuris, very big, first-class, and luci, all very crispy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah, crispy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And ghee and rābṛi and similarly other... In the plate, you see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow!

Prabhupāda: And it was the custom of the Mulliks, daily prasādam, they should not eat all of them. Keep something as a balance—some neighborhood men, they will sell. This was...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Distribution of prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Distribution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Practically you learned all these things in those early days...

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...at Rādhā-Govinda Temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was the training in the childhood. This Ratha-yātrā, Rādhā-Govinda sevā, prasāda distribution. Only the new thing I am doing-writing of books by the order of Guru Mahārāja. Otherwise, whatever I have introduced, I was trained up in childhood. I simply imitated. I am simply surprised. Now nowadays, even a low class... Formerly all our maidservant and neighborhood maidservant, they had two business, one prostitute and one maidservant. Otherwise they could not maintain. Simply by becoming maidservant, no sufficient income. We were paying them for not whole time three rupees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow!

Prabhupāda: Per month. So one house, three rupees, another house, three rupees, another house... In this way their income was ten to twelve rupees. Well that was not sufficient.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not much.

Prabhupāda: So they had to allow the prostitution. But they were happy. But in that income in those men, they had a guru. The guru would come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had a guru.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the maidservants.

Prabhupāda: In Bengal there was professional guru. They travel from one house to another. Our paternal guru was coming like that.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was initiated by that professional guru at the age of twelve years. Later on I rejected him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I wonder if he had any thought that his disciple, Your Divine Grace, would be one day such a devotee all over the world. You always said that's the perfection of a guru, if he has good disciple. So your professional guru had a best disciple.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī later on, when I was young man, manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory... That my friend, Narend Mullik, he took me. There is direction. For real guru one can give up this professional guru.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: So all of a sudden I remember this Nanda Dulal Gosai. I was thinking of him. What a great devotee he was. He was observing some of the festivals, I think, Janmāṣṭamī or Nandotsava, something, inviting friends, offering good prasādam. And he was living in a quarter full of Muhammadans.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Full of Marwaris.

Prabhupāda: Muhammadans.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Muhammadans.

Prabhupāda: Low-class Muhammadans.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't mind that?

Prabhupāda: No, at that time they were so friendly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? They were respectful.

Prabhupāda: Muhammadans were also religious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: One Muhammadan gentleman, Dinuniya, he was formerly Hindu, but when there was some famine... (break) He also made so many charitable institutions. He had a majheev(?), one etimakhānā. Etimakhānā means orphan house.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Chicken-eating has become very common thing. This Tarun Kanti and Tishar Kanti, they eat daily.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. All over his land he has chickens on it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tarun Babu.

Prabhupāda: Without chicken, this prasāda, Kanti Ghosh cannot eat. And one Cinmayananda Swami... They are maintaining that sādhu. So he was giving prasādam with Tarun Kanti, er, yeah...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tishar Kanti.

Prabhupāda: Tishar Kanti. So he was taking. This Tarun Kanti said to..., "So you want to kill my father? He is not eating." He stopped giving him prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, 'cause there was no chicken in it.

Prabhupāda: He could not eat little.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was no chicken in it.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without chicken in it he could not eat? Even...?

Prabhupāda: I think he is drinking also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Must be. When they eat chicken then they have to drink to digest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nowadays among the gentlemen, the chicken and cake(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And?

Prabhupāda: Wine cake(?). If you don't receive your friend with chicken and wine cake, then that reception is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means they're very much degraded nowadays.

Prabhupāda: The Sikhs, they invariably eat. The Marathis, low class, invariably eat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the South Indians?

Prabhupāda: South Indians, low class, they eat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Christians.

Prabhupāda: Chicken is very cheap food. You haven't got to maintain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they find anything to eat on the ground.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they produce egg.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eggs.

Prabhupāda: Eggs. And the chicken-eater cut throat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then he has to become a chicken.

Prabhupāda: Fish. Fish as well. Fish also like that. You haven't got to maintain. They'll grow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But then, if you cut the chicken's throat, then one day you have to have your throat cut.

Prabhupāda: That is not in the lawbook.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I understand that you go to the royal family and talk with them for hours. So it is very good sign.

Parivrājakācārya: Yes. There's... Some people in their family are very good, and they're very interested in learning about Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They can do... They can do very good things for the world if they simply have knowledge of what to do. So we're trying to preach to intelligent people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, intelligent. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). What intelligent man takes up, so ordinary man, ordinary generally follow. Bhagavad-gītā is meant for rājarṣi, not for foolish. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Not for a so-called loafer class. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham. That is being mistaken. Bhagavad-gītā should be taught to such royal family, and if they take up, others will take up. Hm? Ātreya Ṛṣi?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Do you follow?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: This is a good chance that you have got, a connection with royal family, and if you turn them to saintly, then the work is successful. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Not that third-class foolish can understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. The same building I went to see?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Jaya. That building now is a restaurant. We have many people every night come and take prasādam. About seventy to a hundred people come.

Prabhupāda: What do you supply?

Hari-śauri: What do you supply?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We give them one thāli-two vegetables, ḍāl, rice, salad...

Prabhupāda: One thāli?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: One full thāli.

Hari-śauri: Plate.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Thāli of prasādam. And sweet. And then we give them some herbal tea and dessert and sometimes fruits.

Prabhupāda: They like it.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They like it very much. Nandarāṇī Prabhu and Dayānanda Prabhu are managing.

Prabhupāda: They are both intelligent.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. They are working very hard.

Prabhupāda: And they are very sincere. What do you charge?

Parivrājakācārya: About sixteen rupees, fifteen tomands(?). It is very little price. It's very small.

Prabhupāda: For one plate?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: One plate. Very reasonable price. But many people give donations. And many of them take the books. We have your books. They take, and they read it, and they love it.

Prabhupāda: Success.

Hari-śauri: What kind of people do you get?

Prabhupāda: High class.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Higher class. Very intelligent, educated...

Prabhupāda: The low class, they purchase that big ruṭi. (laughs) That's all.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Big cāpāṭi.

Prabhupāda: They cannot come to the restaurant.

Parivrājakācārya: No.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Some people even come, higher class people, and work. They give their service in the restaurant. They wash dishes. They serve tables. We engage them in bhakti-yoga.

Brahmānanda: What's the name of the restaurant?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Govinda.

Prabhupāda: So you make good profit.

Correspondence

1976 Correspondence

Letter to All Governing Body Commissioners -- Nellore, South India 6 January, 1976:

To

All Governing Body Commissioners

Re: Examinations for awarding titles of Bhakti-sastri, Bhakti-vaibhava, Bhaktivedanta and Bhakti-sarvabhauma. Your response is requested immediately by Srila Prabhupada.

Dear Prabhus,

Please accept my most humble obeisances. Srila Prabhupada has requested me to write you in regard to the above examinations which he wishes to institute. Here in India many persons often criticize our sannyasis and brahmanas as being unqualified due to insufficient knowledge of the scriptures. Factually, there are numerous instances when our sannyasis and brahmanas have fallen down often due to insufficient understanding of the philosophy. This should not be a point of criticism nor a reason for falldown, since Srila Prabhupada has mercifully made the most essential scriptures available to us in his books. The problem is that not all the devotees are carefully studying the books, the result being a fall down or at least unsteadiness.

His Divine Grace therefore wishes to institute examinations to be given to all prospective candidates for sannyasa and brahmana initiation. In addition he wishes that all present sannyasis and brahmanas also pass the examination. Awarding of these titles will be based upon the following books:

Bhakti-sastri - Bhagavad-gita, Nectar of Devotion, Nectar of Instruction, Isopanisad, Easy Journey To Other Planets, and all other small paperbacks, as well as Arcana-paddhati (a book to be compiled by Nitai Prabhu based on Hari-bhakti-vilasa on Deity worship)

Bhakti-vaibhava - All of the above plus the first six cantos of Srimad-Bhagavatam

Bhaktivedanta - All of the above plus cantos 7 through 12 of Srimad-Bhagavatam

Bhakti-sarvabhauma - All the above plus the entire Caitanya-caritamrta

Anyone wishing to be initiated as a brahmana will have to pass the Bhaktisastri exam and anyone wishing to take sannyasa will have to pass the Bhaktivaibhava examination as well. This will prevent our Society from degrading to the level of so many other institutions where, in order to maintain the Temple, they accept all third class men as brahmanas. Any sannyasis or brahmanas already initiated who fail to pass the exams will be considered low class or less qualified. Anyone wishing to be 2nd initiated will sit for examination once a year at Mayapur. Answers will be in essay form and authoritative quotations will be given a bigger score. During the exams books may not be consulted.

Srila Prabhupada wishes to begin this program at this year's Mayapur meeting. He requests that you all send your opinions and comments here immediately so that everything may be prepared in time.

Hoping this meets you in the best of health and Krsna Consciousness.

Approved: Your servant,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Tamala Krsna Goswami

Personal Secretary

Page Title:Low-class (Conversations and Letters)
Compiler:MadhuGopaldas
Created:08 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=37, Let=1
No. of Quotes:38