Listen (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"listen" |"listened" |"listener" |"listeners" |"listening" |"listenings" |"listens"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The same chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Interviewer: Is it considered a legal wedding ceremony in this country?

Prabhupāda: Yes, our society is incorporated under the religious act of New York state.

Interviewer: All right, caller, you're on the air on KGO with the Swami.

Caller: I'd like to tell your guest that the other day I received a beautiful letter from the Boston āśrama from Miss Prudence Farrow, Miss Mia Farrow's sister... Are you listening?

Interviewer: Yeah, you got a letter from Mia Farrow's...

Caller: No, her sister, yes, Prudence, from this gentleman's Boston āśrama.

Prabhupāda: No.

Interviewer: No, it's some other group in Boston, she doesn't belong to this Swami's group.

Caller: Okay, okay.

Interviewer: Mia Farrow's sister?

Devotee: He's confusing us with Maharishi.

Interviewer: Yeah, okay. We'll be back in a minute. (break) Could we hear the chant maybe with everybody here? Is it possible? Can we get some microphones over there? You didn't bring what?

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, karma. Karma means work, fruitive work. As you work, as you sow...

Caller: I'll take my answer on the air please, okay?

Interviewer: Go ahead, Swami. She's just going to listen to your answer on the radio. Go ahead with your description of karma.

Prabhupāda: Karma means fruitive work. Just like you are laboring for some wages. You get your wages. Similarly, this material world our work is rewarded. Good work is rewarded with good benefit and bad work is punished. This is the law of karma.

Interviewer: And the other question is "Do you feel God is good?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: We are out of time, we want to thank you very much for...

Prabhupāda: God is good, yes, certainly. (devotees laugh)

Interviewer: ...for all of you here. And your local temple is at 518 Frederick here in San Francisco. Should I give the phone number in case people want information?

Guru dāsa: All right.

Conversation with Religious Group -- July 27, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Therefore conference required. (laughter) Therefore conference required.

Guest (2): Swamiji, the time is running out, however, and I would like to thank you very much for the, your coming in our center here.

Prabhupāda: Now you are convinced that conference is required. You have to convince me; I'll have to convince you.

Guest (2): I think that it is through those confrontations and through those listenings to each other... (break) (French) man

Guest (4): If you go to London, I want to go to India, and then we shall be separated. So we must all go both to London and India.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that first of all we have to decide where to go. If anyone is satisfied that "I am satisfied with going to London or going to Paris..."

Guest (4): But that is the question. Where should we go? If you believe you must go to London, I believe very strongly I must go to India, and I am convinced that to me India is London...

Prabhupāda: No. As you are convinced that going to India is good for you, similarly, you must change your conviction also, that going to London is also nice.

Guest (4): Yes. But so may you also change your conviction.

Prabhupāda: I may... Yes, if you can convince me. Therefore conference...

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: Unless mother is good, how the children are good?

Yamunā: Tora(?). Tora is one of the biggest, and he helped more than anybody. He would come home, and she would read to them from the Bhāgavatam. But he would tell her, "Oh, if you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, you must serve māyā." And he would say, "That's māyā." He would tell mother that at seven years old, and he would explain to her. Swamiji, by the end of our classes, he was actually understanding the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, being able to listen to it and ask questions about it.

Prabhupāda: He gave you questions?

Mālatī: Even at the temple when there would be lectures, and then the lecturer says, "Are there any questions?" Tora would raise his hand, and he'd ask very intelligent questions.

Prabhupāda: Then why not keep him with me, your mother and he? (devotees cheer)

Yamunā: Oh, ho, ho! Haribol!

Prabhupāda: I think your mother will not agree to that.

Mālatī: Maybe his mother needs him. The mother needs Tora to keep her in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: (break) He's going to be a Nārada. Nārada, when he was five years old, he was thinking that "My mother is too much attached to me." And when his mother died, he thought free. "Oh, I am now free."

Janārdana: At the age of five.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: That I know. You are qualified, educated boy. You can do it. But one thing I can do, that you can live with your family just like they are living. That I can arrange. And whatever food we can provide you have to accept. We can... We can arrange for the education of your children also, everything. But we cannot pay anything. That is not possible. We can take charge of the husband and wife. We can take charge of your children. But it is not possible to pay. And besides that, when there is question of payment the service is not good because the payment means he is serving the money. He is not serving the cause. (tape of kīrtana plays for a second)

Guest (4): His old mother listens to these chantings. (break)

Prabhupāda: No, no, he has appeared to establish dharma. So what is the dharma according...

Guest (4): Śāstra-dharma. Śāstra means Ārya-samājī-pratiṣṭhā...

Prabhupāda: So what is that śāstra veda dharma?

Guest (4): Vedic dharma.

Prabhupāda: So what is that? Explain it practically.

Guest (4): Yama, niyama, samādhi, dhyāna...

Prabhupāda: No, that is the process. So what is the end of dharma?

Guest (4): Self-realization.

Prabhupāda: What is that self?

Guest (4): That is to be realized. (laughter)

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Then who is thinking?

Guest (1): Thinking means...

Prabhupāda: No, no, don't use abstract knowledge. As soon as you are thinking, you are thinking.

Guest (1): No, that sometimes thinking, when you are listening inside you...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, listening or thinking, these are different process of acquiring knowledge, but you are doing that.

Guest (1): Yes, my outer form is doing that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): But inner form may be...

Prabhupāda: What is that inner form? You are inner form. Your outer, your coat, is not thinking. Your shirt is not thinking. What you mean by outward, inward? Inward you are. Outward your coat and shirt. Do you think your coat and shirt is thinking? You are thinking.

Guest (1): Yes, I am thinking, but, you see...

Prabhupāda: There is no "but." You are thinking.

Guest (1): I am thinking. One is at the lower level, and one is at the higher...

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No, that's all. Then you are liberated person. You have nothing to ask from me. I am for those who are conditioned, but you are liberated, so you have nothing to ask from me.

Guest (4): Rest of us, we persons, go.

Prabhupāda: Then you are liberated; you have nothing to go. If you are liberated, then you have nothing to seek, knowledge.

Guest (5): Thank you for listening. Time and place. He's already said that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are liberated, you have nothing to go anywhere because you know everything.

Guest (2): May I again submit with the honor that you have bestowed on me of having said that I am already liberated according to the version of Gītā...

Prabhupāda: If you have understood Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated.

Guest (2): I still feel... I still feel...

Prabhupāda: Then you haven't got to seek knowledge.

Guest (2): I still feel that...

Prabhupāda: You be satisfied with yourself. You are liberated.

Guest (5): That means those who are to follow you are not liberated.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Dhanañjaya: Actually, you see, it's the younger Indian families also. They're English. They're not Indian. They're more English than Indian. Their children, they don't speak Hindi, and they're playing just like Western children. So they're, when they see us, when we, when devotees go there, to the communities, they're so eager to take the books 'cause they can read them and they can relate with, with Kṛṣṇa consciousness somehow. Because they go every Sunday to their meetings there, and they hear the priest, and it's all boring. It's for the older, for the old. It's sentimental. That's all. So the older people, they're coming, and they're listening to the readings of the Rāmāyaṇa and so many other things. And the young people, they know, "Oh, these, these European people and American people, they must be doing something genuine. Otherwise why are they sacrificing so much?"

Prabhupāda: So how to attract the Indian younger people?

Dhanañjaya: But then again, they're influenced...

Śyāmasundara: They've asked us in that Hindu Center to teach classes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śyāmasundara: They've asked us to teach classes also in that center.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you do that?

Śyāmasundara: Not many people come, though. But we could attract them to come. Advertise and attract.

Dhanañjaya: See, that..., their main function is on a Sunday, and the last time Your Divine Grace came there, last year, that's where they hold their meetings, in that hall. But it's full of so much nonsense. They have pictures of Vivekananda...

Prabhupāda: Why don't you call that Dr. Shah?

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No, what... We are therefore teaching. We are therefore teaching. Members are gradually learning how to sacrifice for God. So when he is completely trained up, he knows that nothing belongs to Him. Everything belongs to God. Therefore, whatever he possesses, it must be utilized for God's purposes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. We take it for granted, and that is a fact. Everything belongs to God. God, whatever God has given me for my use, so I must use it, first of all expressing my gratitude to God, "O God, You are so kind that You have given me this. So first of all you taste it. Then I'll eat." This is our philosophy.

Sister Mary: What about pleasures like listening to music?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we chant the glories of God.

Sister Mary: Could you listen to other peoples' music?

Prabhupāda: Huh? No. If he's chanting the glories of God, we are very eager to hear him. That is our process. Or somebody's chanting, somebody's hearing. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu. Chanting and hearing about God, that is music.

Sister Mary: Well, a Beethoven symphony, for example, could you listen to that?

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Revatīnandana: Beethoven's symphony. He means classical Western music. They make some music.

Prabhupāda: But if it is glorification of God, we can hear. There is no objection.

Revatīnandana: But there may be no reference to God in it.

Prabhupāda: No, then we don't hear. We reject.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: The point is that there must be direct connection with God. If God's name is there, if God's service is there, if God's form is there, then we are interested.

Prabhupāda: Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe. Everything must be related with God.

Sister Mary: Well, if you're relaxing, if you need to relax, and you sit and listen to some music, it doesn't say praise God all the time, but in fact is, because it's beautiful.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept anything beautiful without God. Without God, everything is ugly to us. Everything ugly.

Sister Mary: So you have to bless it by offering it to God first.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another thing.

Revatīnandana: Just like we have so many beautiful songs and melodies and everything. They're very nice. And we sing these songs. They are glorifying the Lord. And we enjoy like that. Music is there, everything is there, but because it is directly in the devotional service of God, therefore there is this bhakti, there is this devotion there. Devotion to God. Without that, everything becomes void. Tasteless.

Guest (2): Can I get one point straight? Is the Beethoven symphony all right provided it is blessed as an object and a work of art. Is it then all right? Or is it not all right because it doesn't use religious themes?

Haṁsadūta: Originally, music and art were employed only to glorify the Lord in the scripture and...

Prabhupāda: In Sāma-veda, Sāma-veda.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Woman devotee: People like it when we speak so strongly to them.

Prabhupāda: They like. And you have got so many ingredients. So now you realize how many things you have to speak to the world, economic development, everything. We are not simply so-called religious people. We know everything in right way. Everything, what is to be... That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all round, all included.

Revatīnandana: The people who listen, they become very impressed. At many programs, the students, after I finish speaking and I answer some questions, they realize that we know something very completely. They become very interested. They come around and bring more questions. Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And you will get all ideas from our books. That is Indian śaṅkha? That in your hand, bangle, white bangle.

Woman: Ah, elephant?

Prabhupāda: It is called śaṅkha. From conchshell, it is made from conchshell. Where you have purchased it?

Woman: I'm afraid this is ivory.

Prabhupāda: Ivory? Oh. There is similar made from conchshell.

Woman: Yes, I had those in Allahabad. I was going there to...

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: They'll like. Enough ingredients to preach. Simply one has to become intelligent how to express. The, what is called, outlines of thought are already there. You read one line, you can speak half an hour. They are so full of meaning. Provided you can express the meanings. So we are not reading all the lines. We are going quickly from one śloka to another. Otherwise, if we explained each line of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... Just like my Guru Mahārāja explained the first śloka for three months in Dacca. (break) ...after this verse, he explained for three months. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained ātmārāma-śloka in sixty-four ways. That is described in Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Sixty-four ways. Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained in nine ways. He did not touch on those nine ways. Setting aside those nine ways, personally He explained in sixty-four ways. Formerly such scholars were there, such religious persons were there. Therefore people were happy. What these rascals speak? Now there is Freud's philosophy and Darwin's theory.

Revatīnandana: It's nice because here people will listen. In India they won't listen, and in America they can't listen. They're so degraded. (end)

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I've got my natural teeth.

Śyāmasundara: Perfect diet.

Mensa Member: Thank you for sparing this time and...

Dr. Weir: Such short notice I didn't realize... It was such a pleasure and I was so glad that you were able to fit it in before you go.

Śyāmasundara: He's going to speak now down in the temple (indistinct) stay, listen more.

Dr. Weir: Well, I don't know. I should imagine the crowd is so great.

Śyāmasundara: Well, you can sit in front.

Dr. Weir: We will see as we go down I think... I must take my spiritual... (end)

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (1): Also, in Genesis is says that the fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat. It's describing how man should live and it says that fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they were meat-eaters, so Jesus Christ replies that fruit should be your meat.

Devotee: The whole key is that (indistinct) disregard everything that has been taught in the past and listen to me. He speaks so many things and he does not lay out so many basic principles about the eating of flesh, having illicit sex connections and so many things. He speaks just slightly touching the subject. He doesn't really give any basic principles. So they always say, "Well, its okay to do this, its okay to do that, because Jesus said forget everything that was said in the past. That's their basic principle.

Devotee (1): And he also said, "I've not come to change the law." He did not come to change the law.

Devotee: That's just their standpoint. (indistinct) I don't mean to argue.

Śyāmasundara: The knowledge that we have of Jesus was not direct, but it was written down up to a 100 or 200 years later in another language called Aramaic, and scholars recently have discovered that wherever Jesus refers to fish, distributing fish, that that word actually refers to a type of sea plant that grows in the Sea of Galilee which they make a type of bread out of. And it's not really fish but a type of vegetarian bread. This is what I read in an article. So, we don't have... (laughter)

Devotee (7) (lady): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a fish on Laksmi's hand yesterday. The Deity in the temple, where Laksmi had her hand up like this, there was a fish here across her hand. What is this?

Prabhupāda: That is a mark, mark.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is his business.

Bob: Excuse me?

Prabhupāda: That is his business.

Bob: Listening?

Prabhupāda: Praying.

Bob: Whose business? You mean...

Prabhupāda: Every living entity's. That is the only business. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is the statement of the Vedas.

Bob: What does that mean?

Prabhupāda: He supplies everything. Everyone, actually He's supplying. He's supplying food to everyone. So He's father. So why should you not pray, "Father, give me this"? Just like in Christian Bible there is, "Father, give us our daily bread." That is good, they are accepting the Supreme Father. But grown-up children, they should not ask from the father, but they should be prepared to serve the father. That is bhakti.

Bob: My questions you solve so nicely. (Mild laughter)

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śyāmasundara: Howl.

Prabhupāda: Howa?

Śyāmasundara: Howl. That means it was a protest, a howling, "You have not given us the right information," to his elders. "Now what do we do? Simply howl." That was the introduction for our generation, and we all listened to that, read that, the howl protest.

Prabhupāda: He is also searching after; therefore he comes. Whenever he finds opportunity, he comes to me. He's searching after Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. He gets so many bogus ideas. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) But still he's attached to us.

Śyāmasundara: He embraces you when you meet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He likes me. (laughter) Simply his only objection is that I am very conservative. He said, "Swamiji, you are very conservative." Because I forbid so many things. He cannot. Otherwise he would have joined me, but he cannot.

Śyāmasundara: No.

Prabhupāda: He knows that "Unless I give up all these bad habits, Swami will not accept me."

Devotee (1): He is a very enthusiastic chanter.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): The government is spending millions of dollars to control the drug problem. In every city there are heroin addicts and all kinds of addicts, and they are very perplexed because there is no way to control.

Prabhupāda: This is the only way.

Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): This is the only way, but they are not willing to listen. Recently I was in Washington talking to the officials. Our company is making a project for the government, $7,000,000 to investigate what is the best way. And every way it costs thousands of dollars for each person, and it's not even guaranteed. And they take them out of heroin and they are putting them on methadone or some other chemical drug, and that's their method. They are spending thousands and thousands of dollars and the person goes back to addiction after several years. No success. Our program costs nothing, and the politicians don't want to listen.

Prabhupāda: No. Their policy is that they want to keep the people in that way-rascals and fools—then they'll vote and they'll enjoy the political power. That is their policy. Actually they do not want to see their countrymen elevated good character. They don't want to see. If the people become... Just like the British government in their time, they wanted to give education. Their education means A-B-C-D, half-mediocre, so that the government may be run on. They require clerks, servants, so much, not high education. As soon as there was question of high education, they stopped. And actually it so happened that as soon as the Indian people became highly educated and they learned the history of the world, they kicked them out. So these people, these rascals, Nixon and company, they want to keep the people in ignorance so that they'll get vote and enjoy. If the people become intelligent brāhmaṇas, then immediately he'll be kicked out. What is his value? He has no value. This is policy. They don't want to see that people become elevated in knowledge. That is not their policy. Therefore, they do not agree. Actually they are seeing that "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they're so nice character, they're religion, God conscious, so if all people become like this, then where we are?" Because as soon as people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, they'll noncooperate with the slaughterhouse, liquor industry, gambling, illicit sex. They will noncooperate. Then the whole plan of civilization will be collapsed.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Guest (1): I, uh, I'm enjoying everything you're saying, and I, I, I think maybe I should listen to some other questions now, to...

Prabhupāda: So you are agreed to this?

Guest (1): I, yeah, I like it. I like it. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Half-agree, half-agree. You "like" means half-agree. That's nice. Something is better than nothing. If it is half-agreed, that is better than at all not agreed, because... So what is the reaction of this statement of other boys and girls present here? You can tell?

Devotee: I think that Prabhupāda solved all problems amongst all the people (indistinct).

Guest (1): Are all spirit souls alike, or are they different?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest (1): Are spirit souls alike, or are they different?

Prabhupāda: Alike. (laughter) The dress is different, the spirit soul is the same. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. A learned, really learned man, he sees everyone on the same level, because he sees to the spirit and he is (indistinct) that a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, an elephant, a low-born, everyone is on the same category of spirit soul. That is the vision of a learned scholar. He does not make any discrimination that "Here is a dog" or "Here is a very learned scholar." His vision is the dog is also entangled by this body and a learned scholar is also entangled by this body, but both the dog and the learned scholar, both of them are spirit soul. That is actual vision. The same example, that I am talking with you, not with your dress. I am not very much concerned with your white dress or black dress. I am concerned with you as person. Similarly, we are concerned with the soul, not with the outward body. That is our position. Yes?

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Devotee: Yes. I think this gentleman would like to have some interview with Śrīla Prabhupāda. Would you like to translate?

Frenchman: (translated) ...great spiritual master, kindly present yourself to the listeners to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: I have already explained what is our mission, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Already I have explained to some extent and if he wants some particular answer he can ask me.

Devotee: He would like to know who you are, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and how old you are.

Prabhupāda: I am now seventy-seven.

Frenchman: (translated) For how long are you at the head of this movement?

Prabhupāda: For the last five years.

Frenchman: Can you please describe the dress in which you are clothed.

Prabhupāda: You can ask about some philosophy. Dress, (how) people will benefit knowing about my dress. Instead of wasting time in that way, I can ask you why you are in dress... That's not very important thing.

Devotee (2): Anyone can answer those questions.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

John Nordheimer: Understanding is needed, for I know some of the misconceptions that exist about your movement.

Prabhupāda: Are the misconceptions cleared?

John Nordheimer: I hope so.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we invite everyone to come here to listen to our philosophy, take prasādam and sing and dance with us. This program is very nice. We do not make distinctions in human society. We do not say that we shall serve the Indians and not the Americans or the Americans and not the Africans. We are going everywhere with this movement. We take all human beings to be part and parcel of God. Not only human beings, but every living entity—animals also.

John Nordheimer: How many followers do you have?

Prabhupāda: Well, this is a very difficult job, naturally. We don't have a large number of followers. As soon as you try to sell a diamond, you cannot expect many customers. Nonetheless, a diamond is a diamond, even if there are no customers. The number of customers is not the test. The customer must pay the value of the item. In this society we propose that you give up illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. When people hear this, they go away saying, "Oh, Swamiji is very conservative." But I cannot become liberal and tell everybody, "Go ahead and do all nonsense and you can become God conscious." I cannot possibly recommend that. Therefore my first condition is that if someone wants to become my student he has to follow these four regulative principles. Consequently I do not have many followers, but I do have a select few. Because they are select, they will bring about a revolution in the world. One moon is sufficient to dissipate darkness. If there is one moon, there is no need for millions of stars. It is useless to expect a large number of followers. We want only one good follower. If I can get one man to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, I will consider my mission fulfilled. If you talk to whatever small number of followers I have, you will find that they talk better than any great philosopher, better than any scientist or politician.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible. Kṛṣṇa accepted Himself a guru. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted a guru. They are God Himself. So how you can accept: "I can approach Kṛṣṇa without guru"? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. Kṛṣṇa... When actually you want Kṛṣṇa seriously—you do not know who is guru—then Kṛṣṇa will give you a guru. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He was advised by his mother that "If you go to the forest you can see God." So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Kṛṣṇa sent him Nārada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is not yet pleased, either you are not serious. Just like when you become serious of studying any subject matter, you find out some college, some institution. You cannot purchase the books and read at home and become expert engineer, expert, no. That is not the process. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is called śruti. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to hear by paramparā system. You attend the lectures of a professor because he has heard. He has listened the same instruction from his professor. You don't go to a professor who has never gone to school and college. Do you go there? So this knowledge... As material knowledge is received by paramparā, similarly, spiritual knowledge is received also by paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). By paramparā system. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa: "Because the paramparā was lost, therefore the science was lost. Therefore I shall again say the same system to you." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: (BG 4.3) "I am trying to speak to you because you are My devotee. You are very dear friend." So similarly, one has to become a dear friend of Kṛṣṇa and devotee of Kṛṣṇa before he can understand what Kṛṣṇa says. You see? There are so many Bhagavad-gītā editions in all the countries. So many big, big scholars presented Bhagavad-gītā. There was not a single person converted to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Do you agree to this point? Before this movement not a single person... Now there hundreds and thousands are coming because the Bhagavad-gītā is presented as it is, not with adulteration.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Devotee (1): He's supposed to still be in Bakersfield after Guru Maharaj-ji, but this mahātmā is his follower. But they were very anxious to follow in his way because Guru Maharaj-ji is supposed to give direct perception of God. It's described that he will show you light.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (1): Yes. They said when you meet him, he can show you light. He's giving direct understanding of God in this way, this light. When I tried to ask them to understand some Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they simply refused to listen. They had no desire to hear about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They said, "What your spiritual master has to offer? What can you offer except just some scriptures?" They had no respect for the śāstra. So many young people are following this.

Jayatīrtha: Everyone wants instant realization.

Prabhupāda: Outlaws will say like that. "What education you have got? You have simply studied some lawbook." Outlaws will say like that. They will simply sell some book, "Now we are better that you. Without studying we have written."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why they are called demons.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are called demons because... (break)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) here?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, they're in Hollywood. I've never seen it.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Committee is his spiritual master, he orders that you do this.

Jayatīrtha: The test is to see how much one is actually following the orders of his spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Listening to another so-called guru, everywhere we go, especially in Los Angeles, they always talk of other gurus. They always talk of spiritual knowledge, but they don't find out what the real test is.

Prabhupāda: What is your answer?

Rāmeśvara: So we show them our books and say that these are the real scriptures, real quality. The (indistinct) have to be the quality of the spiritual knowledge.

Prabhupāda: How do you explain? You are realized or not? (indistinct)

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, when you say that this is the knowledge that's been realized...

Prabhupāda: What is that? Why don't you explain? (indistinct) That means they do not know.

Devotee (2): One who is developing in spiritual life is becoming detached from material things. These persons who are following other gurus are attached to material things. They're still smoking, having sex life, drinking.

Jayatīrtha: It's difficult to (indistinct) detached to material things. One should be attached to Kṛṣṇa.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Śyāmasundara: We've had a small center here for...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: We've had a small center here for nearly a year, eight months.

Devotee (2): Well we're not saying that it, he's not saying that that's going to succeed, but at least it may not be as much of a travesty. Whether or not we're going to succeed at all in India in getting Indians to listen to what we are saying, that's another whole point.

Devotee (3): At least we won't be killing ourselves. At least we won't be making it so that in the future we will have to leave India. We'll be asked to leave, our visas will be taken away and we'll be asked to leave. These things can happen very easily. It is not a, it is not a, it's not an impossible thing. There are places in the world where we can't go already. Singapore. These things have happened. So I feel we should be very, very careful, selective, about who we let manage...

Prabhupāda: At Singapore our men cannot enter.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Devotee (2): This has happened.

Devotee (3): There's many places that, although legally we can enter, still people don't like us, you know.

Prabhupāda: That Singapore (indistinct) enter.

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, so at that time Vinode Bhai, later on Keśava Mahārāja, he informed that "Prabhupāda is going to Mathurā tomorrow morning and he will speak Hari-kathā this evening. Anyone who wants to remain may remain or otherwise they may prepare to go to see Śeṣaśāyī." So at that time, I think only ten or twelve men remained. Out of them Śrīdhara Mahārāja was one of them, and I thought it wise, "What shall I see, this Śeṣaśāyī? Let me hear. Prabhupāda will speak, let me hear." So Prabhupāda marked that this boy...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) to listen to him (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: He, because he's a vaikuṇṭha person who could understand that this boy is eager to hear, so he very much appreciated. So when we came back to Allahabad, so Ganeśa Babu, he introduced me, that "Here is a nice devotee." So Prabhupāda immediately replied, "Yes, I have marked him. He does not go away, he hears." This (indistinct), "Yes, I will accept him as disciple." Then I was initiated. In this way our relationship with Gauḍīya Maṭha developed, and gradually as it developed, the other side diminished. Then, there are long history, it will take time, but I had the opportunity of associating with His Holiness. For several years I had the opportunity. Kṛṣṇa and Prabhupāda liked it to prepare me. Śrīdhara Mahārāja lived as a...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct)

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: The question I have, Prabhupāda is that before scientific advancement, many people would listen to, like, scriptural knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means śūdras. That I have already said.

Paramahaṁsa: But now they listen more to scientists.

Prabhupāda: That means śūdra. Śūdras are interested to hear from śūdra.

Paramahaṁsa: For example in the Bible they quote that the world is flat. So therefore when they found out the world is round, they say, "Oh, scripture is false."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Scientists, they have proven the truth that the world is round. Therefore scientists...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That must be, therefore the scriptures must be transcendental. Nonsense scripture, and people become nonsense. So except Vedic literature, all nonsense scripture. They are not scripture. Manufactured. This Bible was manufactured by the saint, this saint, that, according to their imagination. It was not spoken by Lord Jesus Christ. What was spoken by Jesus Christ, that they ignore: "Thou shalt not kill." They kill. Nobody is following Christian principle; neither Bible is perfect. But that, if we say, we will be shot. (laughter)

Paramahaṁsa: That is what they do now in the Vietnam. For God they are killing.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you cannot bring the dead body into life?

Krishna Tiwari: I don't think this is the point of argument, because I have, I have already, I have already agreed that the body...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is, this is the point, this is...

Krishna Tiwari: No, no, wait, listen, because the point is this. I agree that the living gets dead and no science can revive it.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, what is your science?

Krishna Tiwari: Fine. But what I'm saying is that when the question of soul is something which is not at the moment visible to us or anybody. There is no indication that there is soul, because if there is soul in everything, I would imagine that that will not be controllable under laboratory conditions. If soul made us, then we should not be able to make differences amongst us. If, if the soul was the prime force, and was important force, then such differences of very magnified nature as exists between one species, between the same species, for example human beings, or between the rats. They will not be under the control of the human beings. One could make rats with white eyes, same rat can be bred and made with blue eyes. Or rat can be made white to black. Now these knowledge, this knowledge which man has achieved by studying the law of nature would never have arrived if we just believed in total something which has been said.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: What?

Krishna Tiwari: See, when we do not..., we say we do not know, we are just being modest.

Śyāmasundara: But he knows.

Krishna Tiwari: I don't know about that.

Śyāmasundara: But he's trying to tell if you'll listen.

Krishna Tiwari: I, I have heard about those things, but I just don't know about the, how to believe...

Prabhupāda: That means, that means you are unbeliever.

Krishna Tiwari: No, not at all.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Certainly! That you are unbeliever.

Krishna Tiwari: Not at all.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: If, if he doesn't know who he is, who is controlling?

Prabhupāda: Then he is?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Then he is admitting that there is a controller. You admit that there is a controller, but you don't know. You're telling us that you do not see Him and you do not know Him.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: Oh. I do not believe, but uh, I do believe that God is, but I do not understand whether the... (indistinct) God or not. I don't know.

Prabhupāda: You do not understand, that is your godlessness. That is your godlessness, because...

Krishna Tiwari: No, that's not my godlessness at all. (laughs)

Devotee (1): Please listen while he explains the process of how to know God.

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa means one who knows the Brahman Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇa. So at least you are not a brāhmaṇa, because you do not know the Brahman.

Krishna Tiwari: I do not believe in classes anyway.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Krishna Tiwari: It's all right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there, that is your defect. One has to become a brāhmaṇa. One has to. But you're deviated from brāhmaṇa.

Krishna Tiwari: I'm glad I did. (laughs) I'm really happy I did. I can assure you, Swami.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Krishna Tiwari: If I meet God, I'll tell Him I'm glad I did. (laughs)

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, the...

Guest (9): But the... And when the... That is the... This is the problem...

Prabhupāda: This happened in my life... This happened in my life.

Revatīnandana: Listen. Listen.

Prabhupāda: My wife was taking tea. So I asked her not to take tea, not to take tea. But she didn't care husband. Then I gave her final, that "Either you have to give up your tea or your husband." (laughter) So she agreed to give up husband, not tea. (laughter) So I left my home. That's all. (laughter)

Guest (8): Due to tea!

Guest (9): There won't be any place for me to go now.

Prabhupāda: We have got such a big house. We welcome all. Yes, bad habit is... Habit is second nature sometimes, but one should be determined. Therefore we have got four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Whichever is suitable. Just like here. He's gṛhastha. His wife, children, all are devotees. So he doesn't require to become a sannyāsī.

Guest (1): He is lucky.

Prabhupāda: Yes, lucky.

Guest (9): He is lucky. For some of them, half of them, they go here, half of them go there.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: It was tremendous. In fact, one boy we found listening to the George Harrison record. You can tell George this if you like. He was listening to the record quietly in the music room that we have at our school with the big speakers, you know. Lots of noise. And he was reading these words. And he put the words down. And I was watching him...

Prabhupāda: "I am in material world."

David Lawrence: Yes. "Living in the material world."

Prabhupāda: That is a very nice song.

David Lawrence: And he sat there, and he was praying. And I didn't interfere. And he came out of the room after having turned the record player off. I said, "Well, you know, what were you doing in there?" And he said, "This, this record has been a complete experience to me." And that, if George could know that... It was tremendous, really tremendous to see this happening. George's record is so devotional, you know. It's really beautiful.

Prabhupāda: I talked with him about this material world in his house... When?

Śyāmasundara: Oh, it was last August, I think. Or July.

Prabhupāda: Last... I went to his house at Henley on the Thames.

David Lawrence: Henlent (?).

Prabhupāda: He's a nice boy, very nice boy. His wife is also very nice. Patty?

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but one thing is...

Lord Brockway: Yes?

Prabhupāda: ...that whatever service you render, because this world is of three qualities, the service will be, of course, of three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. These are described there.

Lord Brockway: Yes, I listened with a very great interest and almost complete agreement...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So...

Lord Brockway: ...to what has been read.

Prabhupāda: ...what kind of service we shall give? I can give you one example. I have seen it practically, that in Calcutta one neighbor, neighboring gentleman, he is (has) a daughter-in-law, he (she) was beating her young son. So I inquired, "Why that daughter-in-law...?" Because her father-in-law was of my age, little older. "So why daughter-in-law is punishing her son? What is the fault?" Naturally, young, a small child. So the report came that the, one of the child, one of the boy, was suffering from typhoid, fever, and another boy stole from the kitchen some parāṭā and gave him to eat. And when the mother came into knowledge, she was punishing, that "Why you have given this parāṭā?" Because in typhoid, no solid food is taken. So he cannot... But the suffering child was thinking that "Mother is not giving me food." So he requested his younger brother, "You give me some food." So he does not know. He has given the food. But the result is that he is being punished. So without knowing how to give service, sometimes we may be punished. What kind of service we shall give? (indistinct) example. So there are three kinds of services: goodness, passion, and ignorance. If we...

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: I've listened, and I think I understand. And one has to think about it.

Prabhupāda: So my only appeal is that those who are leading men... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ... Find this verse.

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

tat tad evetaro janaḥ

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

(BG 3.21)

Leading men, whatever they do, ordinary men, they'll be followed. Find out.

Pradyumna: "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps, and whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore we are trying to make men like you interested. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Lord Brockway: Yes. Yes and no. I've lived in public life for sixty years. I've been in Parliament. I'm now in the House of Lords. But I don't regard myself as a great man in any sense at all.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Of course, there are degrees, but...

Lord Brockway: And I've never wanted to be in a gov...

Prabhupāda: No great man wants to become great. But because he's great, God helps him to become great.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: A big meal?

Lord Brockway: And I do not eat very much usually.

Prabhupāda: I also do not eat, but when there is palatable, I eat. (laughs) (to devotee) Sit down. (Prabhupāda goes to wash)

Lord Brockway: Now listen, I do not wish to detain him long.

Śyāmasundara: All right, whenever you wish to go, you just tell me.

Lord Brockway: Yes, we will, we will go soon.

Śyāmasundara:All right, maybe in ten minutes, eight-thirty, seven-thirty?

Lord Brockway: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, he likes to speak. He likes to speak with learned men and discuss things.

Lord Brockway: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Exchange of ideas is always healthy. So it's...

Lord Brockway: Oh, it's very valuable.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Pradyumna: ...bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. Śruta-gṛhītayā. By hearing from authority. Śruta. Gṛhītayā. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. This is the process. Tac chraddadhānā munayo jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā, paśyanty ātmānam ātmani, śruta-gṛhītayā, bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā (SB 1.2.12). This is the process.

Reporter: By devotion, by listening you receive and see the self...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: ...within the self.

Prabhupāda: Yes, within the self.

Reporter: Ātmani ātmānam. (break)

Prabhupāda: What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The Absolute Truth is realized in full by the process of devotional service to the Lord Vāsudeva, or the Personality of Godhead..."

Prabhupāda: This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Never says by jñāna or karma you'll get.

Reporter: Only bhakti, yes.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: They went to die, after all.

Mother: They were very good soldiers. No, they didn't all die. Of course, some did, I expect.

Prabhupāda: Some, (laughs) yes.

Mother: But they were, they were very fine men.

Jesuit Priest: Well, anyhow, thank you very much, father, for letting us talk and for letting us listen to you.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much for your coming here.

Jesuit Priest: Very nice to come here, and congratulations for...

Prabhupāda: No, our only proposal is that you try to love God. That's all. God is one. God is neither Hindu, nor Muslim, nor Christian. God is God. So let us love God. That's all. That is perfection of life.

Mother: Well, you can rest assured, we do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do that.

Mother: Yes, we do that.

Prabhupāda: That is our...

Jesuit Priest: I wouldn't have given up my life to Him fifty-two years ago to be a Jesuit priest unless I loved God, would I?

Prabhupāda: No. Unless you love God, how you have become priest?

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Millions.

Haṁsadūta: ...devotees. Any number.

Popworth: I found this the other day, and you'll forgive me making this point, but when I was in discussion, it was impossible for me to make a point without being interrupted so frequently that I failed to make my point at all. Now, can I beg for courtesy for our guest to listen to what he has to say. Then answer him.

Revatīnandana: But... Just that this is interesting, that the solution is there...

Schumacher: But you haven't heard the problem yet.

Revatīnandana: But the problem is that people cannot understand the solution. They cannot understand.

Prabhupāda: But one thing...

Revatīnandana: Why they cannot understand?

Prabhupāda: Mister, yes... I forgot your name.

Popworth: John.

Prabhupāda: John, Mr. John. That we follow strictly the Vedic injunctions, and unless we become God conscious, there cannot be any reformation in this world.

Popworth: I agree with that.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Why soul is finished?

Bhagavān: Because they say the body is finished.

Prabhupāda: No body is finished. My childhood body is finished, but the soul is not finished.

Bhagavān: They will not listen logically. What can you do?

Prabhupāda: How it is? My childhood body, my babyhood body is finished. It is no longer existing. So how I am existing? Therefore his statement that body is finished and the soul is finished is wrong. We see practically. The body is finished, the soul is existing. This is practical. Why he's talking nonsense—"The body is finished, and the soul is finished." Where the soul is finished? I remember my childhood body. So I, I am existing, but my childhood body's finished. That is the fact. Therefore with the annihilation of the body, the soul does not annihilate. This is the conclusion.

Guru-gaurāṅga: The baby body is finished. But soul is still there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-gaurāṅga: So when this body is finished, why shall the soul be gone?

Prabhupāda: Even the father, mother is not crying. The mother's baby dies. She cries, she becomes mad. But when the child gives up that childhood body, accept another body, she's happy because she knows: "My son is there. He has only changed the body." The mother knows. Mother is not crying: "Oh, where is my child gone, sir?" He knows that "My child is here. He has changed his body." These are the arguments. If the foolish rascal will not accept genuine arguments, logic, then how he can be convinced? He's a animal. The animals cannot be convinced. Any man with little brain substance, he'll understand this. Where is the difficulty? But it is useless to talk with animals. You cannot argue with dogs and hogs. That is not possible. So if their brain is doggish and hoggish, how you can convince them? But the logic is there, the argument is there.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Guest (1): Yes, I understood all that. Also, whilst listening, I could quite see that you gain a freedom through grace, and don't have to come back here again, and then I thought that you personally must have come back here because you wanted to. Because you had a job to do perhaps. Well, obviously—not perhaps.

Prabhupāda: Come back?

Pradyumna: He said that you must have come back here because you had a job to do.

Guest (1): You see you, if you were freed in your previous time and did not have to come back, it does occur to me that you have come back because you have a job to do.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, just like, Kṛṣṇa comes. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's son, God's son, sometimes He comes. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa's great devotee, servant, he comes because the spiritual enlightenment to the fallen souls, that is required. So in the human society, when the living entity gets the chance of having this human form of life, he has got the facility to understand his position, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So that facility is offered by God, by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, we have got these books. We have got spiritual master, we have got ācāryas. Just to enlighten these fallen souls to go back to home, back to Godhead.

Guest (1): Now you did say, I think you did just tell me earlier, that I think you said Kṛṣṇa or somebody last came five hundred years ago.

Prabhupāda: No, Lord Caitanya.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, that, "If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, naturally everything will be correct." Just like Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja was Kṛṣṇa conscious. And can, you can read the portion during the reign of Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, how nature was helping. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa. You keep one set of books here. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). "Due to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's being Kṛṣṇa conscious, everything was going on nicely. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you are on the post of Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. So if you take standard, it will be good for everyone. And so far secular state is concerned, we are actually secular. In this movement, all classes of men are here."

Śyāmasundara: I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you'll have to preach to her. Because she won't listen to... If I can just get her to agree to be the chief guest.

Prabhupāda: And accept the book. That is all right.

Śyāmasundara: That's all I can do.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Śyāmasundara: If you preach to her, she'll listen.

Prabhupāda: Yes. yes.

Śyāmasundara: But she won't listen if I preach to her.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not possible. That I know. You simply try to...

Śyāmasundara: Induce her to come.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to join us at least one day.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So they learn very quickly. Indian brāhmaṇas, they learned Jyotir-veda, Āyur-veda, very quickly. Because brāhmaṇas they are meant to go to every house to inform the date, the everything. So generally people are inquisitive about the health. So they ask, "Now I am feeling like this." So they give medicine. And they give some astrological hint also. So in this way people gave them some contribution. That is their livelihood. So this... All the systems were made very easy on account of this Vedic injunction. So therefore we take Vedic knowledge as perfect, and we understand everything by Vedic knowledge about God, about His place, about His activities. And God comes as incarnation. He sends His representative. Then it is corroborated. And that is perfect knowledge of God. Kṛṣṇa's, God's feature—everything is described in the Vedas: Brahma-saṁhitā, Yajur-veda, Sāma-veda, like that. And when Kṛṣṇa descends, He practically demonstrates all the symptoms of God. So then we accept God. And it is confirmed by authorities. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa Himself says that "I am the Supreme." Arjuna accepts, the direct listener from God. And later on, the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, who control the society, just Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they accept. Latest, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He accepts. So our guru-paramparā all accepts Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa describes Himself. So where is the difficulty to understand God? The symptoms are there in the śāstras. And those symptoms are visible in Kṛṣṇa. Just like everyone can understand, "God is all powerful." So Kṛṣṇa showed that He is all powerful. So there is no difficulty to understand. So our method is easy. Instead of intellectual gymnastic, we take it very easily. And that acts. Now, so far our Society is concerned, we accept Kṛṣṇa as God. We're preaching Kṛṣṇa as God. So we have no difficulty. It is acting practically. So we... I may be Indian, Hindu, I may accept Kṛṣṇa as God. Maybe superstition, you may say. But why these European, Americans, Africans, they are accepting? And within very short time. Even Christian priests, they are astonished that "These boys, our boys, they did not care for God, never came to church, never inquired about God. Now they are mad after God?" They have not become mad. They are quite sane, educated. But why they are accepting Kṛṣṇa as God? Ask any one of them, they'll give explanation. And how it has become possible? Because they have accepted the method. So our guru's business is to teach him the method. Then he will understand everything. So far vegetable-eating is concerned, it is actually very scientific to eat vegetables. I think some German doctor proved it, that our teeth are meant for eating vegetables.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Jagajjīvana: Because too many people were coming to hear the chanting. So then...

Prabhupāda: They did not like it?

Jagajjīvana: No, they did not like it, the officials. So then we started to leave, thinking, "Well, rather than cause any trouble, we better leave." So then the people, they wouldn't let us leave. So then the leaders there, they were forced to put us on stage. And so we chanted on stage with big microphones and thousands of people came to listen, and then we taught them how to chant Nitāi-Gaurāṅga, and they all chanted. Nitāi, Nitāi, Gaurāṅga, Gaurāṅga. It was very amazing. And then we distributed books and we lectured. (break) Their Lordships Gaura-Nitāi have come because of that chanting, Deities. (break)

Prabhupāda: If the chanter is sincere.

Jagajjīvana: In the Dominican Republic which is an island near us, the chanting is so powerful, it draws so many people, that the government won't let us in to the country because it is so powerful. We have devotees there now, though. We had to send a devotee incognito, in disguise, to get residence there. Now he's...

Prabhupāda: Oh, they will not give place?

Jagajjīvana: They didn't let us in the country, but we have devotees there now. (break) We had an article in a magazine recently. I can show it to you later.

Prabhupāda: What does he say?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Devotee (5): He got married yesterday.

Yaśodānandana: I heard yesterday he was married.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Yaśodānandana: He went to officially. I... We tried yesterday to convince him, but he would not listen.

Prabhupāda: Officially he's married now.

Devotee: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...seen that one who is married, he's lamenting, and who is not married, he's also lamenting. Is it not? Ah? One who is married, he's thinking, "Why did I marry? I would have remained free." He's lamenting. And who is not married, "Oh, I did not accept wife. I would have been happy." (laughs) (Hindi) There's a Hindi... It just like (Hindi). One who has eaten, he's also lamenting, and who has not eaten, he's also lamenting. (break) Tṛpyanti neha... That is said in Sanskrit. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Kṛpaṇā, by one's sex life he gets some children and he's... As soon as there is child, there is suffering. The child is suffering and the parents also suffering to take care. So, again he begets another child. Therefore it is said tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Behind this child-producing there is so much difficulties and trouble. He knows that. But again pro... Doing the same thing. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Therefore a sane person, kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. Therefore one who is dhīra, one who becomes sober, he tolerates the sensations, itching sensations. It is after all itching sensation. So one who can tolerate the itching sensation, he saves so much trouble. But one who cannot, he's implicated, immediately. Either illicit or legitimate, it is trouble. Yan maithunādi... That is the only happiness in this material world. That is only happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). One who wants to remain in this material world, his only happiness is sex life. He has no other happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. And that is very abominable, tuccham happiness. What is this happiness? But they cannot understand. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Itching, between the two hands. It produces so many bad results, but he's not satisfied. "All right, I've done once, that's all right. One children is all right, one or two." But no, then contraceptive, abortion, so many things. But the māyā is so strong, it will induce, "Yes, do this." Again implicated. (break) Becoming master of the dog, he has become servant of the dog.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. When the...

Dr. Patel: We can give it in the vein also.

Prabhupāda: No, no. (laughter.) That is not the way. That is avidhi-pūrvakam.

Dr. Patel: But... Listen. That is why I say, disease or no disease, vidhi's going to help your body and bring you nutrients, even given by intravenously or by rectum or by mouth. By any way.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no, no.

Dr. Patel: But they are going to... He's going to...

Prabhupāda: This is... This is for the nonsense. You see.

Dr. Patel: Having the... Why nonsense now?

Prabhupāda: No, no. If the way is this, that food should be taken within the mouth...

Dr. Patel: But this is also... This is what is said by Kṛṣṇa, by Himself in Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Avidhi-pūrvakam. Everything is sevā, but avidhi-pūrvakam.

Dr. Patel: It may be sevā, but...

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because I am always surrounded by young girls.

Dr. Patel: No, no, that is... Swami Nārāyaṇa sitting with the women but the sādhus...

Prabhupāda: Then why you said...? Don't you see...?

Dr. Patel: Listen, you are arguing in such a way that there will be a flash between us two.

Prabhupāda: No, no. People should be trained up in such a way that in spite of (indistinct) you should not be agitated. That is, that is.

Guest (1): Our religion... (break) and that these boys... (break)

Dr. Patel: Sādhus, not sannyāsīs. (break)

Prabhupāda: In European countries, in European countries, if you restrict in that way, that will be fanaticism.

Guest (1): That is what I am telling you. It should not be done immediately like that. (break) ...it must be trained, and it will take a long time.

Prabhupāda: Why Europe? Nowadays, here also. That is not possible.

Guest (1): It is not... It is not possible.

Prabhupāda: It is simply utopian, utopian.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (3): They actually work for the Kṛṣṇa only, and they...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa recommends śāstra, harer nāma, harer nāma, harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). So why they should chant "Swami Narayan"?

Indian man (4): No, listen...

Devotee: He says to chant Kṛṣṇa. But they are chanting Swami Narayan.

Prabhupāda: You know, there was a big doctor in Calcutta, (indistinct) Sen. You have heard his name? He will die of thirstiness, still would not drink outside water. Would come home, offer to the Deity, and then drink. I know that (indistinct) Sen.

Indian man (3): But he is such a...

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14)—Kṛṣṇa. But why one should chant the other name? Kṛṣṇa says satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not any other name.

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: But their teacher, they're chanting "Swami Narayan." They're saying Swami Narayan is better than Kṛṣṇa. What kind of preaching is this?

Indian man (4): This is... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...nonsense this (Bengali). The people will go to the temple. If they say, if the preacher say that Swami Narayan name should be chanted...

Indian man (4): This is directly (indistinct) Swami Narayan.

Prabhupāda: "Swami Narayan is better than Kṛṣṇa," then what they learn?

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: ...common features of Kṛṣṇa are common to all paramparās. It can't be different from one another.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Paramparā. He says, "As soon as this paramparā was lost, the Bhagavad-gītā was lost." Naṣṭaḥ, it is said, naṣṭaḥ. "Therefore I am taking you again as paramparā." You see? If you do not accept...

Dr. Patel: What you say... I mean... Listen. This is one of the way of seeing things.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you see... open, open (indistinct)

Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa is so multifarious and so multiple energies He has got that only ekasmin...

Prabhupāda: No, no, here it is said, in the Fourth... This is Fourth Chapter?

Dr. Patel: No, this is Twelfth Chapter. I am reading the common features of all the sādhus. Adveṣṭā sarva-bhūtānāṁ maitraḥ karuṇa eva ca, nirmamo nirahaṅkāraḥ, nirahaṅkāraḥ (BG 12.13). We must have (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: No, that is ahaṅkāra, that "I have got my own interpretation." That is ahaṅkāra.

Dr. Patel: But you say your own interpretation also. That is also ahaṅkāra, sir.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am taking the interpretation of Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: He must be also taking in that way.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Indian (3): But even then they don't listen.

Prabhupāda: No. Even Gandhi refused. Gandhi was approached by the... "Mahātmāji, you can stop this cow-killing." He replied, "How can I stop? It is their religion." Just see. (break) ...kṛṣi go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is the duty of the vaiśyas.

Indian (3): Killing of the cow, there is no...

Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) But who supplies the cow to us?

Indian (3): They are Hindus.

Prabhupāda: They are Hindus. (break) ...travelling with a Mohammedan. At that time there was no Second Class, Inter Class or Second Class I was. So that Mohammedan gentleman, when he called for that food supply, so he was asking very... "Is there any meat, cow's flesh?" "No, no, sir. No, sir." "That's all right." (end)

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: Well, a lot of young people that we meet in our teaching profession, we don't try to teach them any kind of didactic salvation. But we do try to direct them towards an awareness of what is best and what is most good for them and what is most spiritually nourishing in the world about them, in so far as the system allows us. And I speak of my friend Michael and we here. And the one condition or emotional state—because very frequently the students are not mature enough to be in a spiritual condition, they are in a emotional condition rather than a spiritual one—what we are faced with, is the basic question of "Who am I?" "What is it all about?" "Why am I here?" "Why should I be here"? "Who are you, and who the hell are you to tell me what to think or what to read or what not to read? Why should I read Shakespeare? Or why should I read Saint Augustine? Or why should I listen to Mozart? I prefer Bob Dylan," and these kind of questions which seem to emanate from a very disillusioned state of mind, an insecurity, an uncertainty, and a lack of credibility in the total structure of things as they are. And so we're frequently faced with not just directly having to answer these questions, as I said didactically answering them by saying in a catechismic sort of way: "Who am I?" "You are..." "What am I doing here?" "You are doing this here," which one can do, of course, also.

Prabhupāda: So...

O'Grady: And so, rather than present the kind of answers that one could present if one was trained in oneself originally... And one who is first of all trained, then one has to untrain oneself, and then one trains oneself from that experience basically. This is my way of seeing it. And then one tries to help others through this course with the same process. Do you think that we should tell them more directly, or... Well, the basic question is how to handle the problem of modern education.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Vedic process is... There are so many questions, as you have already explained. Somebody thinks, "Why I have come here? And what is the purpose? What you are?" So many questions. Questions should be answered by the perfect. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to take answers of all these questions one must approach the bona fide spiritual master."

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you have no experience you have said. You have no experience.

Priest: No, I have not said. You said I did.

Prabhupāda: No, you said that God is beyond your experience, you said.

Priest: A real swami listen first if he wants to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: First of all let us consider ourself. You said that God is beyond your experience.

Priest: That's right. That is my experience.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, that's all right. That means I am talking with you. Therefore, you have no experience.

Priest: Yes, I have.

Prabhupāda: You say God is beyond your experience, you say.

Priest: Yeah, and I have that experience that God is beyond experience, because I found out that all my experience does not mean God.

Prabhupāda: But if you say God is beyond your experience, that you have no experience of God. This is clear meaning. Why do you go round about?

Priest: No, you don't..., you see...

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But if you say God is beyond your experience, that you have no experience of God. This is clear meaning. Why do you go round about?

Priest: No, you don't..., you see...

Prabhupāda: Then it is a bit difficult.

Priest: I have always told that the duty of the swami is to listen and to understand, and you don't seem to listen and to understand. You misunderstand.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I use... First of all let us... Why misunderstand? You say that you have no experience of God.

Priest: No, I never said that.

Prabhupāda: Then tell me your experience. That I want to know.

Priest: That every time I had an experience of God, and first I went through the bhakta, and I was a bhakta for a long, long time, then I found out that God was beyond my experience.

Prabhupāda: That means you have no experience. How can I talk with you?

Priest: That the image of God, whether you call it Kṛṣṇa or Rāma or Nṛsiṁha or any of the avatāra... And you know, near our place in Poona in Amenagar(?), there was a swami who called himself an avatāra, and...

Prabhupāda: That anyone can say. I can say third avatāra, he can say fourth avatāra.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi:

śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ

saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ

na yat-karṇa-pathopeto

jātu nāma gadāgrajaḥ

(SB 2.3.19)

"Men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who never listen to the transcendental pastimes of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the deliverer from evils."

Prabhupāda: Yes. These electors are animals, and they elect animals. Just like Nixon. A big animal, and he was elected by other animals. And now there is struggle. (makes barking sound:) "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" (laughter.) That's all. Is it not?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's a big dog, and the small dogs, they elected him. And now there is some trouble, and "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. He was praised by some animals. He's an animal, big animal, and he was praised by... That is stated here, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called leaders, they are animals, and they are praised by other animals. That's all. Small animals. This is the civilization. How he is animal? Now na yat-karṇa..., karṇa-pathet, upeta...?

Nitāi: Upetaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah. One who has not heard the message of Kṛṣṇa, he's animal.

Nitāi: Jātu nāma gadāgrajaḥ.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, if you eat the prasādam, you'll be purified.

Yogeśvara: Our spiritual master was explaining in Geneva to a reporter that there are different levels of understanding. It's not that we always have to have a philosophical understanding of things in order to appreciate them. Sometimes we can just appreciate that this prasādam tastes so very good. That's also correct.

M. Lallier: Yes, but in occidental countries, we have a tendency to try to understand things by a mental way.

Karandhara: Well, that can also be done. You can hear, listen to the philosophy, and then..., but in order to really examine it thoroughly, you have to experiment with a hypothesis. We say if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and eat prasādam, you become pure. So that may be a hypothesis so long as you don't try it, but as you try it, you come to realize that it's an actual fact. Just like if the doctor advises you to take a certain medicine for a cure of an illness, you may not have the understanding to know how that cure is going to work, but if the doctor is actually qualified, and you follow his orders, then you'll become cured, even if you didn't understand it in the beginning.

Bhagavān: The problem is if you don't try.

Karandhara: Or make sure you have a qualified remedy, a qualified medicine. Or doctor. One way you can see doctors... One way doctors are checked out is if they have successful, if they have had success in the past. You go to a friend and ask him, "Can you recommend a doctor who's cured you?" And he'll recommend, "Yes, you go to here. He's cured me." So if you're trying to find a spiritual master, one evidence of his potency is his disciples, how pure are his disciples. If you see that his disciples are becoming pure, then you can understand that here is a spiritual master who is giving something real. But sometimes the knowledge will come after the appreciation. Sometimes the appreciation will come after the knowledge. It can work either way.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: So if he is a man of action, let us see. He has got his philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. We have got our philosophy. Let us see by the results whose action is doing things. We have no political problem, we have no economic problem, we have no social problem. What more action does he want?

Prabhupāda: Religious problem. Any problem.

Bhagavān: No problem. So what does that indicate? And you have all problems. (French)

Prabhupāda: Now, this question... Listen. Our Bhagavān says that he has no problem. We have no problem. And you have got all problems. So who is better? Who is better?

Bhagavān: And anyone who joins us loses all his problems. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says then that's very serious because if you have no problems, that means you are trying to escape from the world because the world is full of problems.

Prabhupāda: We are in the Paris City. How we have escaped from the world? (laughter) We have got branches in London, in Paris in New York and big, big cities, and all these boys are coming from big, big cities. How they have escaped? It is not justice. If he says that "They have escaped," that is wrong statement. We are not escaping anything. (French)

Bhagavān: What kind of proof are you looking for? Let's talk about proof. What kind of proof are you looking for? (French)

Prabhupāda: Now, another point is he's accusing us that we're escaping. Why he's escaping Kṛṣṇa consciousness? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he thinks that what we're doing is simply a kind of medicine that doesn't actually resolve the problems that people are facing.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So then why she says that everyone will go, peace? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: She makes no... She said that if she could listen to Jesus, what he said, formerly, then she would know, but she says actually one cannot believe it so much because can anyone believe that he has made the dead Lazarus... This was a person who already died, and Jesus came and gave him life back. So she says nobody can believe that, that Jesus has made this dead Lazarus...

Prabhupāda: I don't follow. What is that?

Satsvarūpa: She, from what he says, she does not actually believe in Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Satsvarūpa: This lady. She says that who can be sure of what Jesus actually did because he was...

Prabhupāda: Then why, why she quotes Jesus? If she does not believe in Jesus, why she's giving evidence from Jesus? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: She says like if she makes a comparison like if today there is a car crash, then all the people will say something different and the information will differ from the original car crash. So she says, in the same way, what Jesus did and said is now twisted around so nobody can actually give...

Prabhupāda: That means everyone has rejected Jesus. (German) (break)

Pṛthu: ...that what Jesus said, this is all right, but what is now made of it, this one shouldn't take wordly.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: What is your opinion about this?

Professor Durckheim: May I ask a question? How do you teach your disciples to become aware of this force which is no matter that makes matter alive?

Prabhupāda: That active principle, life, or living soul.

Professor Durckheim: Yes, how do you teach them to become aware of it? You see, now I listen, and that is, if you like, first a philosophy which contains the truth. I don't doubt it. But how to make feel?

Prabhupāda: It is very simple thing. Just like a body is moving, and body is not moving. So there is an active principle which makes the body moving, and when it is absent, it is not moving. Now, the question will be: "What is that active principle?" Athāto brahma jijñāsā. First of all let him distinguish what is the difference between this dead body and living body. If a student is unaware of it, he can see that on account of the active principle, the body is changing, the body is moving, and in the absence of the active principle, neither the body changes, neither moves. Just like in our childhood we used to think that the gramophone box, there is a man, and he is speaking from the box. This is a childish suggestion only, but similarly, anyone can think that within this body there is something which is making the body moving. It is not very big philosophy.

Professor Durckheim: No, that's quite clear.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So from there we shall begin again. (japa) (long pause) If the people refuse to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll never be happy. This is a fact. (pause) But if you present properly, they will take. That is a fact. The other day in San Francisco, there were about twelve to fifteen thousand men. They were hearing so patiently. They also applauded. And many came to my car, "Thank you, Prabhupāda. Thank you, Prabhupāda. Thank you, Prabhupāda." Said like that.

Bali Mardana: I've never seen so many young Americans sit for, listen to the lecture so attentively.

Prabhupāda: And religious, most dry subject. Not cinema.

Bali Mardana: The newspaper said that it was the most favorite festival of all San Francisco, of all the festivals.

Prabhupāda: So they have mentioned, "American Hindus." (chuckles) (pause) It is a dead blow to the material civilization: "No drinking and no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex." Their whole civilization is finished. Because they stand on these things, four pillars.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They have no other...

Kṛṣṇa-kānti: Therefore we must present a better civilization.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Kṛṣṇa-kānti: We must present a better civilization.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole thing is managed by the law of gravitation, but when Kṛṣṇa lifted the hill, there was no weight. He's not conditioned by the law of gravity. He can lift up. We cannot do because we are conditioned. And when they cannot understand God's inconceivable power, they think it is all mythology. Because he is a rascal, he thinks Kṛṣṇa also rascal.

Bali Mardana: They try to put Kṛṣṇa within the framework of their own...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa is kindly become visible to our eyes, these rascals immediately take Him as one of us. By His kindness He's coming to be visible by us, to listen Him, His instructions, but these mūḍhās will take Him as ordinary human being. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the consciousness, my consciousness... The consciousness of those living cells are dependent on my consciousness.

Prabhupāda: No, that consciousness is not developed. It is not equal to your consciousness. Just like a child's consciousness is not equal to your consciousness because he's not yet developed, similarly, this human life is the full-fledged... Not full-fledged. Almost full demonstration of consciousness. We have to utilize it for higher understanding. From material conditions, the consciousness develops. On account of loss of consciousness, they become godless. So it requires time. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is to help them to develop consciousness very quickly. Yes. Otherwise, it will take millions of years. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścit yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). We are helping people to develop that original consciousness very quickly. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: These cells, the micro-cells, they divide. They... Just like...

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, he doesn't require. Just like I am working with this dictaphone. I am not a mechanic, but my business is going on. That is required. I have read the instruction paper, that "You use this microphone like this. You put this button," and three, four instruction. So I have learned it and it is giving my business. That's all. Just like this lamp, the instruction is "Push this button," (flicks light button) and it will go, all on. So I know I will get the light. Now I am not electrician. It doesn't require. That much knowledge is sufficient. But I want the light. So the electrician says, "Just put this button in this way. Light will be there." So my business is finished.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that for example he could listen to everything that you were saying, and then he could repeat it, and someone might say to him that "Oh, you are an expert. You are a master," but actually he's not. He's simply repeating.

Prabhupāda: No, this is example. By receiving a knowledge, you must corroborate by your knowledge or by your experience, by the method. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that Arjuna was declining to fight in the war. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You are simply lamenting on this body, but you do not know what is the active principle of the body." So this you can understand very nicely, that everyone is working for this body, but nobody knows what the active principle of the body. Without the active principle of the body, this body, alive or dead, is the same thing, lump of matter. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as teacher; therefore He is chastising him that "You are talking like a learned man, but you are lamenting on this body, but no learned man laments on this body, either dead or alive." Because without the knowledge of the active principle which is moving the body, what is the use of simply understanding the bodily construction? The medical science knows the construction of the body, anatomy, physiology, the bone, this muscle, the blood and everything, but he does not know what is the active principle. When the active principle gone, they cannot repair it. So there may be vast advancement of medical science, but if the medical science cannot check birth, death, old age and disease, then what is the use of it? It may have some temporary use, but actually it is not science. Nobody wants to die. Is there medical science which can stop death? So that knowledge may be temporary, beneficial, but ultimately, it is not the knowledge. I am anxious for not dying. Nobody wants to die. This is my anxiety. And where is that science, medical science? So we are satisfied with some temporary knowledge. We have no ultimate knowledge. And because it is very difficult subject matter, we have avoided it very carefully.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Rūpānuga: No, it simply requires that one listen and take instructions.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Therefore śruti, Vedas. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhi... (MU 1.2.12). Hear from the guru and do it. That's all.

guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya

Now, what is that song? Who knows this song, śrī-guru-caraṇa-padma **?

Nitai:

guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya,

ār nā koriho mane āśā

Prabhupāda: Koriho mane āśā. Do not try to research anything. That is final.

ar na koriho mane āśā.

If the guru is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. And how guru becomes perfect? He has heard from his guru. That's all. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāhu (BG 4.1). This is paramparā system. You hear... Just like Lord Brahmā heard from Kṛṣṇa, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. He gave the knowledge to Brahmā. Brahmā distributed the knowledge. Therefore Vedic knowledge is perfect. The Vedic knowledge comes from the Supreme Person. Vedāham. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaṁ vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛt cāham (BG 15.15). So Vedic knowledge is coming from Kṛṣṇa, and it is received by Brahmā, and then Nārada receives. Then Vyāsadeva receives. Then he gives us all these Vedic literature. We understand. That's all. It is not by so-called rascal's research. Research means they are rascal. That's all.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: So your question was devotee and not devotee, no? You questioned?

Guest (4): I am a Christian, yes.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your question...

Guest (4): Oh, do I have a question? Yes, to my question, you answered it. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Oh, what is the question of Mr. Psychiatrist? Who is psychiatrist? You are? Come here.

Guest (7): No, I have just come to listen.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. The other day in Caracas two or three psychiatrists came. His question was how to solve the problems. So our statement is that unless you treat the spiritual disease of the human society, then the problems will increase. It will be never be solved. The real disease is spiritual disease.

Guest (7): The young children also? What about young children?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Young children should be educated from the very beginning about God consciousness or the science of God. We had the opportunity in our childhood. My father taught. And then, when I was grown up, my spiritual master taught. So for that reason we have got some sense. Spiritual education should be given...

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): They see us distributing, and they don't like what we're doing, they get very angry, but still, they're thinking of Kṛṣṇa all day. We often wondered how they are benefiting even though they maintain this very envious...

Devotee (1): Just like the Mohammedans were benefited.

Prabhupāda: They say, "Here is the Kṛṣṇa man." So he utters the name of Kṛṣṇa. That is good for him.

Devotee (2): And then after a while, when they become our friends, then they may stop and listen to us.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because he has chanted Kṛṣṇa, "Here is the Kṛṣṇa man. Here is the rascal Kṛṣṇa man." (laughter)

Tripurāri: We found one policeman at the Atlanta airport was always harassing the devotees, trying to stop them. And one time I came down the stairs and I saw him in the corner reading Īśopaniṣad and trying to understand. They know that we have some knowledge; they are just envious of our success. They want to find out, "What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness about?" They don't want to admit that they want to know. Actually everyone wants to know about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must.

Tripurāri: You said that everyone is hankering for these books.

Prabhupāda: So he read that Īśopaniṣad?

Tripurāri: Yes. He tried to understand.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees laughing)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Brahmānanda: He was recording like this.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, just the last few minutes. (laughter) I was listening though, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, will the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will take over the world eventually?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (1): Is going to take over the world eventually some time during the Kali-yuga, in this Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible, because only the fortunate persons will take.

Devotee (1): I mean, but will the power of the kṣatriyas will be in the hands of the Kṛṣṇa conscious persons sometime during this Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Provided you become very expert to preach. Unless you preach, how they will take? (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Towards the end of the Kali-yuga isn't there a description in the Bhāgavatam that one will not be able to see the sun or the moon?

Prabhupāda: During the end of Kali-yuga?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Dr. Movebhed: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā... Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. What is the position of Kṛṣṇa? That you have mentioned?

Dr. Movebhed: I have to listen to you.

Prabhupāda: Why you shall listen to me? The Bhagavad-gītā is there.

Dr. Movebhed: But you are an insider.

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually without listening, so many big, big men, they have committed mistake about Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he says that "I do not believe that there was a person, Kṛṣṇa, ever living." Just see. What to speak of others. (Hindi) Without listening from the right source, even a personality like Gandhi will commit mistake, what to speak of others. Similarly, Dr. Rādhākrishnan has committed so many mistake. So big, big scholars, they're trying to study Bhagavad-gītā, but they cannot understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You first prepare yourself to surrender, praṇipāta, praṇipāta-prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāta. Without any reservation, surrender, praṇipātena, by the surrendering process, and paripraśnena, by enquiring from the authority. Because it is not very easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many, many million persons one try to understand, one trying to become perfect, siddhaye. Siddhi means perfection. So yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "Those who have attained siddhi, perfection, out of many such siddhas," kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ, "maybe one man can understand Me." The first of all to become siddha. Then, after becoming siddha, one may understand Kṛṣṇa or he may not. Actually it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa if you adopt this process: praṇipātena, paripraśnena, sevayā-three things. You have to go to a person where you can surrender, not to a bogus person or one who is not competent to accept your surrender. And then you make question that "Kṛṣṇa says like this. What is the meaning of this?" Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). And sevayā. Three things required: first of all surrender, and then question, and seva.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Dr. Movebhed: I prefer to listen to you.

Prabhupāda: But we are speaking the same thing, Bhagavad-gītā. We are not manufacturing anything. Clear conception of God you can take from Arjuna. Arjuna associated with Kṛṣṇa personally. What he says about Kṛṣṇa and what he understands about God, that you read from the Tenth Chapter. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam (BG 10.12).

Nitāi: "Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahmān, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original. You are the unborn and the all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."

Prabhupāda: Then? Purport? (break) Next verse?

Nitāi: "O Kṛṣṇa, I totally accept as truth all that You have told me. Neither the gods nor the demons, O Lord, know Thy personality."

Prabhupāda: Now here is the Arjuna's understanding, that "I accept You in total." Now some rascals are proclaiming that all the Bhagavad-gītās, they are, most of them are interpretation. But Arjuna says that "I accept everything what You have said." So whom you will accept, Arjuna or some rascal who is speaking that "There are so many interpolation. They can be rejected"? Whom you will accept as authority? Arjuna says that "I accept whatever You have said in toto." If you accept Arjuna because he has heard from Kṛṣṇa, then you accept Kṛṣṇa or you understand Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So He is the father of all species of life, origin. Actually every one of us, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is not for a particular person. For everyone. Yes?

Ānanda-mārga woman: When you asked what is the true form of God, I've seen the true form of God in myself. It's the purest life, it's the life I cannot reach through my mind. And nobody has experienced in material world. I have listened to it. It is a beautiful sound, the celestial music. And you cannot reach it through material world. I've tasted it as the purest water, and it's always inside me. And you can get it in the spring water even. And it is something I cannot reach through my mind because it is beyond my mind. I can reach by surrendering myself, by being a devotee. And I have experienced the true form of God.

Prabhupāda: No, what is that form?

Ānanda-mārga woman: It's the purest light. It's the magnificent light. I have listened to it. It's the music. And I have tasted it.

Prabhupāda: No, if you have realized God, you must know what is His form. You must explain.

Ānanda-mārga woman: The energy of light does take the form of everything which exists. It is the creator of worlds.

Prabhupāda: But He has a form.

Ānanda-mārga woman: He has all the forms. And the purest form, the most beautiful form, has shown itself to me inside of me. It's the light and it's the music and it's the water. I cannot name it Kṛṣṇa because I do not believe in names.

Prabhupāda: Do you know what is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa?

Ānanda-mārga woman: I believe Kṛṣṇa was one form of God. You said something about extension of Kṛṣṇa. It's the same.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa means "the all-attractive." As you say that God is so beautiful, so that is, in other words, all-attractive. So if you have realized God, then you have become perfect.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: You don't depend on tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: Otherwise, sometimes a president may leave, leaving so many debts, so many loans, so many this, so many that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This is our standard of management. Listen. If the temple president doesn't understand it, teach him.

Jayatīrtha: That's right.

Prabhupāda: That's right. So all these things you write. Otherwise you forget.

Jayatīrtha: Yeah, that, we'll... The next point is to insure that the proper criterion for recommending candidates for initiation be followed...

Prabhupāda: That is being done.

Jayatīrtha: ...and to insure that the...

Prabhupāda: The president recommends, or the GBC recommends.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any fixed amount of time that one has to be in the Society to get first, hari-nāma, initiated? Because I...

Prabhupāda: That we have already fixed, six months to one year.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Six months to one year. And for brāhmaṇa initiation?

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. For nothing, because you have got money, no. Unless it is urgently or absolute necessary, you should not spend.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And there should be some... There should be some limitation. We should not spend tens of thousands of dollars...

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...in such a way.

Acyutānanda: They shouldn't listen to the decisions of these professional men if they say, "Don't do this and don't do that."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: The president should be restricted that "You cannot spend more than this amount without sanction of GBC."

Acyutānanda: When we were in Bombay, there was an organization man, that one gentleman who was discussing with Bhagavān about the general organization of the Society, that you suggested we talk to him...

Prabhupāda: So many, they came. They simply talk.

Acyutānanda: There was one who...

Prabhupāda: They do not help.

Acyutānanda: No, when we were talking to him, he said that every temple should have its budget, and over that budget, the GBC should sanction. They have two accounts.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: ...what Śrīla Prabhupāda really is. Śrīla Prabhupāda is the real theologian, but they are using that name. And they... In that sense, they are the biggest cheaters. They're going by the name theologians, and they're not actually theologians. They're simply scholars, dry academicians.

Prabhupāda: What is that scholarship? Simply...

Prajāpati: The scholarship... They have degrees by their names, and they've gone through listening to other mental speculators, and now their students listen to them.

Prabhupāda: You said there are twelve names?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes. I have a list of them.

Prabhupāda: In the Bible?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes. One of them means "the Lord who sees me." One of them means "the supreme friend," "the supreme father." One of them means "the Lord of the mountain." One of them means "the King, the greatest King." "Brother" is another meaning. So... And these are all in the Old Testament, all these different names. So one of their arguments is that we're presenting a different name. Therefore they think it is a different God. We can refer that there are twelve names. Does that mean that there are twelve Gods?

Acyutānanda: We have names which apply to those also.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: No, maybe they set the policies for churches. Maybe they influence them.

Prajāpati: Yes, right.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They do.

Prajāpati: The main people who listen to the theologians are the pulpit preachers, the shepherds of individual flocks of Christians around the world. They are the ones who are most influenced by the theologians.

Acyutānanda: They stay in...

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Government leaders all over the world are influenced by these... And they run their... They base their policies on the ethics of the Christian Church.

Acyutānanda: What I say is that...

Ravīndra-svarūpa: And if you try to present something different, then they're opposed to that based on their conditioning, based on the influence...

Pañcadraviḍa: But is the Christian Church, is that being determined by the theologians at Harvard? They, they have some say in this?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes. They set the... They write the books, though. They interpret the Bible. They are the so-called gurus because they interpret the scripture whatever way they want to.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That'd be appreciated cause it's going to reach many intelligent people.

Acyutānanda: More than the theologians people listen to psychiatrists.

Prajāpati: Yes, the theologians listen to the psychiatrists.

Acyutānanda: They have another mish-mosh to delude the people into paying the money. They're simply tricksters. Tricksters.

Prajāpati: Many of the theologians today are influenced by a book called I'm OK, You're OK, which...

Acyutānanda: We're O.K.

Śrutakīrti: (To Prabhupāda) You want to keep this here?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Prajāpati: ...Dr. Harris. And this book's central tenet is that we can be happy in life simply by patting each other on the back and approving of what each other does.

Acyutānanda: No one's saying stabbing... (?)

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: Tape recorders.

Prabhupāda: (Chuckles) These are comfortable?

Madhudviṣa: Automobiles. Aeroplanes.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they enable comfort. A person can lie down in his comfortable bed in his nice apartment and listen to music out of the wall.

Prabhupāda: But what about his death, how he uncomfortably dying?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, we can't change that.

Prabhupāda: Then what you can change?

Viṣṇujana: But they can give you drugs to make death so that you don't feel it.

Madhudviṣa: Yeah, you can die in your sleep.

Prabhupāda: That is, means another death. You check death by death. That's all. These are all rascals. You are not yet convinced that these, they are rascals. That is your defect.

Pañcadraviḍa: I went to see my grandfather when he was dying. They said, "We have a nice arrangement. He's going to die in two weeks. Don't tell him. He'll die peacefully in his sleep." That was their arrangement.

Prabhupāda: Coma.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But who takes it seriously?

Devotee: They all do.

Prabhupāda: They stay here and go away. That's all... Temporary, temporary.

Devotee: But then they will also buy the record and listen at home.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but our song, we are chanting always, where is that song you have got? You have got (indistinct) ...he has to give new record. Nobody cares for the old record. (indistinct) ...then his business will stop. If you say that "I have given one song, that's all." (everybody laughs) Who'll care for it? That is our credit.

Devotee: But they will say only a select few are interested in that Hare Kṛṣṇa song.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Not select few. They're increasing the number, many thousands. Cannot say select few. Select few was beginning (indistinct) ...I was chanting (indistinct). And now that it is not select few and it will increase. But the song is the same. That is our credit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Going back to science again...

Prabhupāda: Going back... Where is science? Going back to hell again. Say "going back to hell again". Say like that. (chuckles) Because that is not science. That is our charge. You can say like that: "Going back again to hell."

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Just hear.

Kim: Ātman is attached to each person?

Prabhupāda: Just hear.

Amogha: He says hear for a moment.

Kim: I'm listening, of course.

Prabhupāda: Ātmā's nature. One question should be understood, thoroughly. You have asked what is the nature of ātmā. The ātmā's nature is that he is eternal. He never dies. Never takes birth. He is already existing. Just like, you were a child, you were a baby. The body is no longer existing. Your childhood body is no longer existing, but you know that you were a child. You remember your childhood days. Therefore, you are different from the body. The body is passed away, but you remember that you had a body like that. Therefore you exist. You know that you'll become an old man. So this body will not exist. Another body you will get, old age body. Therefore you will exist; the body will change. Now try to understand this fact first of all, and if you cannot understand, ask questions.

Kim: The ātman, there is one to a person, or there is only one ātman?

Prabhupāda: You are ātmā, I am ātmā, we are not one. You are individual, I am individual. I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. So how one?

Kim: I beg your pardon?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: Thank you. Good night.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: He said that... When we were walking to the car, he said... I was talking to him a little bit about it, and I gave him some magazines to read. He said it is very convincing argument about the, why the problems are all there because of the bodily concept of life. So he said, "It is a very convincing point of view and very thought-provoking." So I think he listened very well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, if this kind of man will understand—they are in position—that will be a great... He is better than so many clergies.

Paramahaṁsa: (laughs) Yes. I invited someone for Friday. I can't guarantee that he'll come. But anyhow, his name is... He's from the local government Alcohol and Drug Authority. And they are... They have hospitals to treat people who are addicted to drugs and alcohol. He is a social worker who has worked in a mental hospital, and he wants to bring a psychologist and a psychiatric nurse. And I hope he comes because he sounded intelligent like that also. These people are looking... They have problems on their hands, and they don't know what to do...

Prabhupāda: This world is full of problems. I have said. If you go this way, sense gratification, then you will have only problem. And if you go this way, towards God, there will be no problem. Because nature will put forward so many obstacles if you go. Because this is not the way of life, human life. Animal life, that is another thing. But they do not know. But human life, he is given the opportunity to go towards God, but he does not take this opportunity. He goes towards animal. Then there will be problem. Nature will not excuse. "So you are given the opportunity, and you are again becoming animal? You must suffer." This is nature's way. Therefore they are suffering problems. So many directors, so many government, the problem cannot be solved. That is nature's way. These foolish persons, they should know how nature is working. Find out this verse. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). They are thinking, "I am director," "I am minister," "I am this, I am..."

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: They don't know how to cook, the dogs.

Prabhupāda: Well, nature has made them like that. The human beings, they can utilize the land, they can produce so many nice foodstuffs. That is human society. What is this society? They are living in big, big skyscraper building, and for their food the slaughterhouse killing, and they are eating. Is that human civilization? All third class, fourth class men.

Amogha: If they would only listen, they will be defenseless, but they don't listen much.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they go away, "My time is over." (laughs)

Amogha: Yes. "I am busy. I must go."

Prabhupāda: His energy is over. Not time is over, but his energy is over. He see that "We cannot argue with this man."

Śrutakīrti: He'll not give us a chance. (break) (speaking to another devotee) Wouldn't it be better if you make his breakfast?

Devotee: Certainly.

Prabhupāda: I've talked with many psychiatric scientists in Los Angeles.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All of them (indistinct). Even our own scientist.

Amogha: (laughs) Yes.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Journalist: What about other artifacts of civilization like television and motorcars...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very good, just like we also use motorcar, but not for fashion. Suppose if we go for preaching. If we can go by car quickly, we take advantage of the car. We have got many cars for preaching work. So everything is good, provided it is used for progressive goodness. (coughs) That our mistake is that when... Now listen, there is the mistake in Darwin's theory also. He has no information that the evolution is taking place, of the body, by the desire of the soul. That he does not know. Just like sometimes people were happy and living in a small cottage. Now they are making big, big skyscraper building. So what is the difference? The cottage and this... The cottage is not becoming the skyscraper building but the man who was living in the cottage, by his desire the skyscraper building is coming. Similarly the evolution means the soul within the body desires a certain type of body and he gets it. Not that the monkey body has developed into human body.

But the soul within the monkey's body desired a human body, and he has got it. This is the process of evolution. The Darwin's theory, this knowledge is lacking. If he is thinking that the cottage has become big skyscraper building, that is not the fact. The owner of the cottage desired to have a skyscraper building, therefore he, from the cottage he transferred to the skyscraper building. It is due to the owners.

Journalist: In that case, if we go on developing, we stay in the skyscraper, or the skyscraper gets bigger.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Mahā. Mahā means very great. So unless one has very big understanding, he cannot understand God. God is unlimited. So you have (to) come to that platform to understand. Those who are limited, they cannot understand God. That is not possible. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Siddha. Siddha means one who has become unlimited, Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, Brahman realization. So Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many millions of person," kaścid yatati siddhaye, "somebody is trying to become unlimited." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ: (BG 7.3) "Those who have become unlimited, out of millions of them, one can understand Me, Kṛṣṇa." So Kṛṣṇa understanding, God understanding.... When I say Kṛṣṇa, God. God understanding is for the perfect unlimited, not for common man. Common man should accept the ācāryas. They must follow. Ācāryopāsanam. Just like in India the Sikhs, they follow Guru Nanak. So Guru Nanak says, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa, incarnation of God." So they should accept, that's all. Not that every Sikh is expected to be unlimited as Guru Nanak. That is not expected. But they should follow Guru Nanak. Then they will understand. Guru Nanak says, "Kṛṣṇa is incarnation of God." The all the Sikhs should accept, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is..." Then it is all right. It is not expected that every Sikh will understand Kṛṣṇa. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). The mahājana, the ācārya, what path they have shown, that will show. All the ācāryas, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. And Arjuna, who directly listened Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa, he accepted, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). So in this we have to follow. Otherwise it is not possible. What they will understand? They must follow the ācārya. If Guru Nanak says "I accept Lord Kṛṣṇa as God,".... God's incarnation and God—there is no difference. Then why the Sikhs should not accept Kṛṣṇa as God?

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that is if we want to do something substantial, we must come on a common platform. That common platform is already there. Every line of Bhagavad-gītā is so nice...

Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, but sir...

Prabhupāda: Nobody can argue on it.

Yogi Bhajan: You have to provide the opportunity for those who will not have the chance to meet you to meet you. Those who have no opportunity to listen to you to listen to you. Those who have not seen you to see you. And I think that has its value. I never... I would never have gone to meet Sant Kirpal Singh. He came. And there the idea of this Unity of Man Conference was framed. And I left all the way to India, and I asked him one thing which I loved in him. He said, "Well, I am going to die next year. You take over," and I said, "Forget it, that's not my job. I'm not going to take over anything from anybody. I have to do what I have to do." Then he said, "Well, this is the idea. Would you try to be second with me in this time?" I said, "All right, I'll do that." And in the end I almost was convinced that he is a great man. And he asked me, he said, "You don't believe in anybody except God. Human forms are very... I understand you, I know you," because he knows me from very childhood. But I asked him one thing. I said, "I have never seen a saint on whom saints believe. They all have their own territories and whole thing." You know.

Prabhupāda: Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam: "He is not a muni if he does not disagree with another muni."

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That's a good idea, very good.

Yogi Bhajan: And I like all these guys to come and talk to me and when they will listen me talking Gītā, perhaps they will understand, "Well, Yogiji knows little bit about what we know about." So when they pronounce certain words, I just sometime correct in between, but I don't tell them anything because they know...

Prabhupāda: Where is your headquarter?

Yogi Bhajan: Los Angeles. We are neighbors.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Los Angeles.

Yogi Bhajan: We are almost neighbors. We are few blocks from each other.

Prabhupāda: Now, when you have started?

Yogi Bhajan: About five years ago. Six years.

Prabhupāda: Six years. We started there in the...

Śrutakīrti: About the same time.

Yogi Bhajan: About you when it came in Illustrated Weekly, I was in India.

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...devotees are described as siddha-sattva-maṇi, siddha-sattva-maṇi. (break)

Harikeśa: I haven't listened to it all though. That's why the tapes aren't done. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...people, by not believing in the next life, they have dismissed all problems. Very happy life.

Bali-mardana: They have one saying, "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you'll die."

Prabhupāda: That's right. Very good civilization. (break)... Aryan civilization. This is not Aryan civilization. Barbarian. (break) A small child, he knows that "I shall become like my elder brother. I shall get this body, next body." And these people, they cannot understand that there is next body. That means their civilization is less than a child's civilization. (break) ...hantara prāptiḥ.

Bali-mardana: Even every child knows that "When I grow up I will have a different body,"...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: ...but they do not know.

Prabhupāda: These people, they do not understand. What kind of civilized men they are? Less than a child, and they are proud of their science. (break)

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: And mussels also. The black ones are called mussels. And also crabs.

Prabhupāda: (speaks to someone in Hindi) So you were hearing me talking just now?

Indian guest: Oh yes, Swamiji. Listening, part of the conversation I heard. (break) ...these college courses and units, and I realize that to teach a religious course which is a Vedic culture first needs devotion, second needs knowledge. And I need both of them. I lack both of them. And this is... But still, I can support this kind of...

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. Because you have a little desire to know, so that we have to take, a small fire, and we have to fan it. Then it will come, blazing fire. Kali-yuga means actually there is no brāhmaṇa, but whenever there is a little tendency of becoming brāhmaṇa, we take it, accept. Otherwise there is no question of pushing on this movement. Wherever there is little chance, we take advantage. That is our process. (break) Initiation means just to see, "Here is a little chance. He is coming forward. Take it, accept him, and fan it." This is initiation, not that "Now I am initiated, I become perfect." (break) Theological Union, when it was started.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Nineteen...

Prabhupāda: '62.

Dharmādhyakṣa: There are schools in the theological union that go back to 1850. In other words, there are... Around ten schools make up the union.

Brahmānanda: When was the union started?

Bahulāśva: 1952, I think.

Prabhupāda: '62.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, you should not drive fast. (devotees laugh) No, no, this is not good.

Rādhā-vallabha: We had to pick you up at the airport, Prabhupāda, and we were late.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but fast, drive very fast, is risky.

Rādhā-vallabha: So this police officer he pulled us over. He was very angry. He said, "Let us see your license and registration." We gave it to him, and it said International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness on the registration. He said, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa." And he asked us some questions about the philosophy, and he listened very carefully, and then he said, "I cannot give people like you a ticket." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they are pleased, but don't take undue advantage. Yes. (break) ...remain friends. That is wanted. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: When they arrest us we read to them out of Kṛṣṇa Book, the pastimes, and they listen the whole time. And sometimes for an hour and a half, two hours, they'll listen to us while we preach. Then they let us go. (break) Sometimes we are about to make an announcement to collect donations and the police officer will be standing there like this, like he doesn't want us to do it. And we go up to him and say, "If you don't look, we'll go ahead and collect and pass out magazines," (Prabhupāda laughs) He will say, "All right."

Prabhupāda: "Please close your eyes. (everyone laughs) Let us do something." (break)

Jayatīrtha: (back in car) ...register as a travel agent so that we can get discount on all of our tickets, airplane tickets, and then also we can work on arranging that, that these tours would stop there.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So how they can follow you?

Devotee (2): We're not asking them to follow us. We're asking you Prabhupāda, that these are some problems.

Prabhupāda: My request is that first of all you adopt yourself the Vaiṣṇava ācāra. Then you try to teach others. Otherwise you have no right.

Devotee (2): But we have done that for five years, and no one here listened to us at all.

Prabhupāda: So why you are anxious to listen... You... Let them not listen. You do your own duty.

Devotee (2): We had no duty. They gave us nothing to do. They would not recognize our qualities, as we understand, even of, say Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: So what can I do?

Devotee (2): Well, you can make statements on certain of these things so that when they hear them, their ignorance will be dispelled.

Prabhupāda: Then we have to hear both of you. We have to hear both you... There will be regular court, and we shall see.

Devotee (1): Not court, simply...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Devotee (2): That would be fine.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Devotee (2): That is what he said to me. And he was a sannyāsa. He is sannyāsa and he said to me, "I want to have sex with you." Does that mean that Kṛṣṇa was saying I should have sex with him?

Jayatīrtha: So you have to see whether it is according to our principles.

Devotee (2): I'm asking you on a very practical... No. That is not what he said. He didn't say that. He said absolutely, and this is...

Upendra: Then you should listen to everything he said.

Devotee (2): I am. Because if I can judge then, if I can say, "Oh, at this point he is wrong," then that is what we are talking about, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That is the issue. If they are absolutely right all the time and they can make no error, they wield absolute power over our lives.

Prabhupāda: Where is (name witheld)? Where is (he)?

Satsvarūpa: He is across the street.

Prabhupāda: Has he said like that?

Devotee (2): Yes. I have witnesses.

Upendra: But he's admitted his error.

Devotee (2): That's beside the point.

Revatīnandana: That's all right. But that's not the point here.

Upendra: The point is that Prabhupāda, that if you come before Prabhupāda for your own spiritual advancement, then it doesn't matter what other people are thinking...

Devotee (2): That's not the...

Devotee (1): That's not the crux of the matter at all.

Revatīnandana: The point here is not to criticize (him).

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: University without books. (laughter) Very good university. Anyway, if they are taking our books, that is good. What he will have? He is also another bogus man. But you people want to be cheated by this yoga, meditation. Therefore he has been able to get some facility. Only a selected group has come to me. Otherwise, they do not understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Kuruśreṣṭha: Those people won't listen to any philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they have been cheated by this man.

Kuruśreṣṭha: Even we give good explanations which they can't...

Prabhupāda: They cannot understand the simple thing that the child has got his future, the boy has got his future, and the young man has got his future, so why not the old man? Such a dull head they have. You see. If the child says, "No, no, I have no future. I shall remain always child," is it possible? And similarly, if you say. "No, no. After old body, everything is finished. Now it is dead." So they are such dull-headed men. The simple truth cannot understand. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). This is the position. The example is so nice and so simple and they cannot understand. What is their brain? Animal brain. Dog race, horse race—they want this, rat race. That's all. Their civilization is race, dog race, horse race, rat race. That's all. They do not know anything. And I am talking this simple thing because you are in confidence. Otherwise I would not have sa... Only rascals, animals, the western people. So now it is motor race, from dog race to motor race. And does it mean if the dog is running on, race, on a car, does it mean he is not a dog? The same race, either by jumping on the land or in the motor car. The race is the same, the dog is the same. So when you have come, just now?

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our request. Bring prasāda. If you have got any further enquiry, I can try to...

Mayor: No, I really don't think I do, and I think I'd like to learn more about your movement too. But I have enjoyed having to talk and listen to you and I appreciate it.

Prabhupāda: No, put it here. He'll take. Take this prasāda. They are all fruits, innocent. In your country you have got so many nice fruits.

Mayor: Yes, we do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And grains and milk. So much nice things. You can avoid meat-eating very easily, as they have given up.

Mayor: It looks very good, but I (indistinct) with a knife. (laughter)

Viṣṇujana: Someone is bringing a fork. Prabhupāda, perhaps we could provide him with some of our literature and that will inform him more about our movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, give him.

Mayor: All right, thank you.

Prabhupāda: So, Jagadīśa, you give whatever... You take his... Give him some fork.

Morning Walk -- July 6, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Jagadīśa: Because it would greatly facilitate my preaching.

Prabhupāda: You are already preaching.

Jagadīśa: But many of the devotees are not so inclined to listen to a householder, as to a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Neither to the sannyāsīs. (break) ...this building?

Brahmānanda: It's the univers... It's a theo... (break)

Prabhupāda: Not for the students?

Jagadīśa: That's what they originally were for.

Prabhupāda: Now? (break) Eucalyptus? No.

Sudāmā: No, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...one for the bathroom. (break) Eh? Fifth class. (break) ...fourth-class. (break) class. The same?

Sudāmā: It's the same one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, When you were... Many years ago you used to have me send you eucalyptus twigs from San Francisco.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: It becomes food for other living... It becomes food.

Prabhupāda: Food or whatever it may be, but the body, the ingredients of the body are complete to get life. You cannot say some chemical is missing. If it is missing, then how so many living entities are coming? There is nothing missing; everything is there. You cannot say, "missing." What is that "missing"? You do not know. That is soul.

Paramahaṁsa: When I first joined the movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I used to listen to your lectures and then go talk with my father. And he would argue with me, and I would find a question and come back and ask you and find the answer and go back and argue with him. But the thing I always came up against is that if he assumes that there's life on other planets or that there is a supreme source, a supreme energy or God, then it destroys his entire life's work, his study.

Prabhupāda: Then they are fools. They should stop all this education. This university should be broken. (laughter) Because they are producing only fools. That's all. They should stop this education.

Bahulāśva: Donate all these buildings to you.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. The buildings will remain there, but they will be finished. What is this education? They do not know what is God, what is soul, and what is the meaning of education? Simply bodily concept of life like cats and dogs, so what is the use of education? They remain cats and dogs. That is no value.

Bahulāśva: They cannot live happily either or peaceful.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Every day on the news, every day on television a man comes on and he says what's happening all around the world, and everyone accepts. No one has ever seen any of those places.

Prabhupāda: You have to believe.

Satsvarūpa: Why is it that people are so disinclined to listen to our authority—that they all take the scientists' authority—if it's just one authority or another?

Prabhupāda: Because they are nondevotee. That is the defect. More the nondevotee, more rascal mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, mūḍha... They cannot. Duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ, na prapadyante. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna: "Knowledge has been taken away by māyā." (break) ...more you become atheist, the more you become blind. This is the point. (break) ...given this maxim in our Back to Godhead, "Where there is God there is no nescience." (break) ...preaching, back to God. "If you want to know things are there, then come back to God. Don't go this side; come this side." This side means he will be drowned. There are two sides. If somebody unnecessarily goes this side, he is death, and this side, he is saved. So one who is going this side we are asking back to Godhead, "Come in this side." If one goes this side, he will find the downtown, so many nice buildings, parks and everything. And the boy who goes this side, he will die.

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Svarūpa Dāmodara's book he gave the example that "Why does the red apple fall off the tree but not the green apple?" So the scientists say that when the apple gets ripe, certain acids rise in the stem and weaken it and it falls off the tree. There's no need for God or anything like that. It's automatic.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Mr. Surface: I'm just enjoying listening.

Prabhupāda: No, you must give your opinion. (laughter) You are learned scholars. Our philosophy is that we cannot possess, cannot renounce. So what do you think about it?

Mr. Surface: I'm not quite sure what that means precisely.

Prabhupāda: Just like this table belongs to somebody else. How can I possess it? And if the table belongs to somebody else, how can I renounce it? Renouncing means if I possess something. But if you have nothing to possess, where is the question of renouncing? And if the things belongs to somebody else, how can I possess it? This is my proposal. You cannot possess other things. And then you will be thief. If I possess other's possession, then I am thief. And if I renounce, then I am false renouncer, but I did not possess anything. So where is the question of possession and renouncing come? But the whole world is struggling. Some group is struggling for possessing, which is called economic development, and some group is trying to renounce it. Just like a rich man's son. Without any, his labor, he possesses the father's immense property. He wants to renounce it. And the poor man is trying to possess it. These two classes of men are working. One is trying to possess, and the other is trying to renounce. There is no other third group.

Ṛṣi-kumāra: What about those who are just possessing enough to maintain their bodies?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Body is maintained by the birds and beasts. The worms, ants, they also maintaining body, but they do not possess anything. So therefore, natural law is that without possessing, you can maintain yourself.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These pictures and everything.

Jayapatāka: I wrote out the whole thing. As soon I can give it to you...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You make... Keep that... That I'll present personally, not now. Later.

Lalitā: When he is meeting, he will unveil. "Already we have started the schemes and we can expand with the help of government." (break) (Bengali)

Lalitā: (To Brahmānanda:) Listen, please. One point.

Prabhupāda: Where is that letter?

Brahmānanda: To Indira Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: So mention that I require...

Lalitā: Hundred...

Prabhupāda: How many...

Brahmānanda: When you talk about "I... So we have already eight branches in India. All development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government."

Prabhupāda: "And foreign assistance, about one hundred men." That's all.

Lalitā: (Bengali)

Brahmānanda: "Foreign assistance, numbering about one hundred."

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These are faulty, fault-finding. It is no good. Everyone. Kṛṣṇa did not say for Indian or American. For everyone. But at the present moment Indians are misled that they have been, I mean to say, induced to think that if they become like American or Western people they will be happy. That is misleading.

Vāsughoṣa: I was telling them that in America the big thing is they want to raise the standard of living, but then those people who had raised the standard of living, they are also killing themselves. But they don't want to listen. Actually in Nepal I was reading every day in the paper the king was saying that "Our goal is economic development. That is the top priority. Number-one priority is economic development."

Prabhupāda: Who? Which king?

Vāsughoṣa: King of Nepal, King Birendra. He's the only Hindu king in the world. He has so many... He is embarking on so many programs of economic development in his country.

Prabhupāda: Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). They have been described as "chewing the chewed." They have no eyes to see that Europe and America, they have developed so much economically, but what is the peace there? They're jumping quietly. You see? (laughter) They are going to chew the same thing, chewing the chewed.

Passerby: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: Does a person have to experience enough frustration to give up this process of...

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We don't discriminate whether he is Christian. We take everyone as human being, welcome. So what do they say? They also quote Bible?

Devotee (2): They say that their priests tell them, "You just listen to me and forget about the Bible."

Prabhupāda: And who are you? Then I can say also, "You hear me. Forget about Bible." Anyone can say. Why the priest? Wherefrom the priest has come? Has he dropped from the sky? (laughter) That's it. Everyone can say, "My dear priest, you hear me. Don't talk of yourself. You hear me." Everyone can say. Then? How things will be adjusted? The priest is also a man; I am also man. If he can say like that, I can say like that. Then who will make adjustment? Who is correct? Hm? How it will be adjusted? If everyone will propose something, and who will say, "Now, out of so many proposals, this is correct." That means chaotic condition. If everyone says, "What I say, you hear." Then who will hear? Everyone will say only. Who will hear? That is going on actually. And rascal Vivekananda says, "Everyone's opinion is good."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yathā mat tathā path.

Prabhupāda: Yathā mat tathā path. This is going on. Everyone will say something, and it is all right. However nonsense it may be, it is all right. Even Gandhi followed that philosophy. Therefore he invented one, another philosophy, nonviolence, which is impossible. When Hindus approached him, that "You have got so much influence over the Mohammedans, so why not stop cow killing?" he said, "It is their religious principle. How can I interfere?" Just see.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And he is considered to be a great scholar in Bhagavad-gītā, and when cow protection was requested, he said that "How can I do it? It is their religious principle." And he is a great big scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. All nonsense, going on. Whole world is full of nonsense, mūḍhas, beginning from Gandhi to any rascal, all of them, rascals. Perhaps it is the first time we are detecting, "Here are all rascals." It is first time. Then we are enemy of everyone. We call everyone rascal-Gandhi rascal, Vivekananda rascal, Aurobindo rascal. So actually they are, but people are thinking, "These people say all big, big men rascals? Therefore they are rascals."

Cyavana: The average man doesn't have the intelligence to discriminate between an intelligent man and a fool. He will listen to anyone.

Prabhupāda: No, we have got this from the standard test tube, Kṛṣṇa. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is duṣkṛtina, mūḍha. That's all. We have no difficulty. Just like that urine test? We have got... One who has got that testing paper, red, yellow and so on, so on... So we have got this testing paper, Bhagavad-gītā.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) Prabhupāda, Lord Caitanya's weapons were His associates. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's weapons were His associates.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sāṅgopāngāstra-pārṣadam. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha kori māne: "All the associates of Lord Caitanya, they are ever liberated." Nitya-siddha kori māne. "Anyone accepts the assistants of Lord Caitanya as ever liberated—he also becomes liberated, simply by accepting the associates of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu who is helping Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, simply by accepting this, the man who is accepting, he becomes liberated." Se jāy brajendra-nanda pāś. Gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha kori māne, se jāy brajendra-nanda pāś.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: It is the foundation.

Prof. Olivier: It's the foundation. But we know so little about the foundation. When the rich man in the Bible asked the Lord to send this poor man down to warn his brothers, the Lord said they've had all the prophets all the years and they haven't listened. Any new evidence they will not accept either. I think that we have enough evidences around us. We need not seek more evidences, except I believe, through more direct contact with the workings of the holy spirit itself, which I think is available. But again, which I agree with you, I don't think we have exploited enough. You could use that word advisedly. Because the spirit is there. "It bloweth where it listeth." It is for us to get attuned to that spirit. And now the point is, that we are concerned with: Who is going to do this? There has just been written a book in England, which I haven't read, and I hope to order it, but I've only seen the advertisement, namely, The Biology of God, which takes into consideration the points that you have raised here. Of course, there are a lot of objections to this book, in principle. You know—how can a man try to biologize God, to give Him a physical, scientific being in terms of modern life? But I think in the last book in the Old Testament, Malachi, there is a, when the Lord was complaining about all these people who bring blind animals as a sacrifice or lame animals or weak animals... The poorest in their flock they bring as sacrifices to the Lord. And He said, "It's not sacrifices that I want at all, if you bring this kind. It's obedience. It's truth. It's only truth that brings knowledge. It's truth that I want." But then He goes on to say you must... This is the challenge that you were referring to: how do we open more windows from God or from the spirit of God onto this present world today? Of course, the good Lord is still God. And He uses... (break)

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: I got a copy of the Bhagavad-gītā at the last occassion when your representatives were here, which I thought was a very well brought out and a very well documented edition. The printing is also very good. So we are trying at this university to, slowly, to delve down into the infrastructure of education. Of course, one..., in the Western society one has got to take cognizance of so many developments in the various fields of science. And the element of spiritual science certainly has been neglected. I would concede this point immediately. That is perhaps where this university can also still play a meaningful part. Of course, here we have representatives of three of the world's greatest religions: Islam, Hinduism, and Christianity. This will be part of Professor Oosthuizen's department, to try and take the best out of these and formulate for our students, and maybe for the rest of South Africa and the world that will listen, the essences of religion that would really satisfy as we go along.

Prabhupāda: We say that religion means the law given by God. So any religion must accept God. Then there is no difference. The law may be little different according to time, circumstances. But religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the law given by God. Just like law means the codes given by the state. That is law. Just like you are keeping, "Keep to the right" or "left" here. In America it is right. So somewhere, "Keep to the right," or somewhere, "Keep to the left," but because it is given by the state, it is law. Similarly, whatever law is given by God, that is religion. This is our definition of religion.

Professor: I think we have to leave slowly. Thank you very much.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Please won't you all take some prasādam.

Prof. Olivier: Thank you very much.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: So he has got artificial teeth? No.

Harikeśa: No. Now he has no teeth. He's getting some teeth. They're making some. The dentist is working free in Bombay.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The CIA, they're going to build a television set in his mouth. (laughing)

Harikeśa: They do that with all their men, he said. They put things in the mouth so that they can control the people. And they listen to what they say because they can also hear anything he says. So somebody is listening all the time to all their special agents under the ground. They never come out of the ground. They stay under the ground all the time, and they listen to all the secret agents and all the conversations. And they control them. They speak things to them, tell them what to eat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Demoniac.

Harikeśa: He says they even control the president that way. They can even make the president go crazy or kill him if he ever becomes a traitor or something like that.

Prabhupāda: Dangerous, huh? That is CIA? The CIA is maintained by government?

Harikeśa: Oh, yes. That's why everybody is very afraid.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they think that the government is maintained by the CIA. (laughing)

Harikeśa: The CIA even has laser beam guns where they can shoot somebody with this laser beam gun and they disintegrate completely, like they never existed. They shoot light out of a gun and it just goes-tssh-completely finished. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Photo?

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: There is no knowledge. They are all in darkness. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, para, paropakara. These all rascals, they are in darkness. No knowledge. Don't you see? If they had any knowledge, how they are taking care of an ugly, diseased dog and killing their own child? Is that any knowledge? To maintain child is botheration, to kill. And to maintain three dozen dogs, all ugly and diseased, they are very much enthusiastic. Just see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because the dog will listen to them, but the children will not.

Prabhupāda: Not listen to them.

Harikeśa: Dog is man's best friend.

Prabhupāda: Yes, doglike man's. We don't keep dog. But we don't hate dog also. Let them keep their own position. In India still, they keep dog, but dog is not allowed to enter the room. No, outside. They are trained up in that way. When food is to be given, they will call, "Come on," and he will take food from outside and go away, always remain outside. Dog is never allowed to enter room or in the house. Outside compound, that's all. Still. No dog is allowed to enter the room and jump over the body of the master and sit down with the seat. No. What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These are marigolds. In the summertime, each one of these little seedlings, we transplant them. They give many, many nice yellow flowers with fragrance. We make garlands for Gaura-Nitai.

Devotee (1): It was in the paper that one lady left four million dollars to her dogs, to dogs in general, to help dogs. Last week, Roosevelt family.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Indian man (1): There was discriminatory laws against the Indians, trying to let them carry certain documents to identify that they are foreigners and all that type of things, not allowed to go in certain places where other people were allowed to go, and all those kind of laws, discriminatory laws, especially for the Indians. So he fought against them for the truth that everybody is equal in the eyes of God.

Prabhupāda: So? But it was not successful.

Indian man (1): Partly it was, because then they had to listen to him, what actually the grievances were. First they were not prepared to talk to him. They didn't want him to know anything. Then they compromised, and from then onwards.... Still it has been carried on up to now. The laws are there for the Indians.

Prabhupāda: Still the Indians have no equal right.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are not allowed to vote here even, or have any representatives in Parliament.

Indian man (1): No, nothing whatsoever. They are grouped up. Especially now within these couple of years. Before there was living in town and all that, but now they are grouped up in their own areas, not supposed to live in town anymore.

Prabhupāda: The Indians are driven away.

Indian man (1): But there is a change at the moment. We are getting indirect representation in Parliament, and most probably in a matter of twenty, thirty years... (laughter) Promises.

Devotee (4): Sounds like the scientists.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, I cannot hear this.

Dr. Patel: You see, we don't understand the working of those people in Africa, those junglis. But they do some...

Prabhupāda: But you are not a junglis; you are a medical man, sir.

Dr. Patel: Please listen to me. I beseech you to hear me for a minute. They do some things which we cannot explain, and we do by their own ways.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom.

Dr. Patel: The scientists know it.

Prabhupāda: As soon as you do in your own way, that is rascaldom.

Dr. Patel: Then we are rascals.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I am representative to all the rascals of the world here. (laughs) That way, if you say so.

Prabhupāda: Anything which is really scientific, you cannot do in your own way. Two plus two equal to four is applicable everywhere. You cannot say, "Two plus two equal to five. It is my own way." This is rascaldom. Scientific means "two plus two—four." It is accepted everywhere. You cannot say, "Two plus two equal to three. That is my own way."

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Hundred years finished and then become a dog. This is civilization. You got the hundred years for getting out of these material clutches, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhī (BG 13.9), but one will not do that. How spoiling civilization.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Fifth Canto it is very nicely described how for each sinful activity a person goes to a separate type of hellish planet.

Prabhupāda: But they do not accept this, such a foolish person.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Any sane man, if he found out what the consequences will be, he would listen to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: They do not believe next life, that, to dismiss all these ideas. If there is no next life... Bhasmi bhūtasya... Atheists, they do not believe next life. All big, big men in Europe, they say, "No, there is no life." Here also.

Haṁsadūta: They will say, "We have no evidence, no evidence of..."

Prabhupāda: Evidence is there. Still, you are so rascal. Evidence is you were a child. That is the evidence. Where is that body? A very simple evidence, but these rascals are so dull, they cannot understand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They accept what is good for their sense gratification, and what is not good, they won't accept.

Prabhupāda: And where is sense gratification? (break)

Harikeśa: Everything is unmanifest in the beginning, manifest in the middle, and unmanifest at the end. So why should I care for anything in this lifetime?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Those who are not cooperating...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They should be asked to leave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must cooperate.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) The problem that these foreign, some of these foreign devotees that have come lately, they have been such loose devotees that the temple presidents, they want to get rid of them; they are sending them to India. Three people came from Rūpānuga's zone; and they were all useless devotees. They won't listen. They just ran away from Bombay. So I wrote a very strong letter to Rūpānuga Prabhu. I said, you know, they should screen the devotees before they send them to India. What they are doing is they are sending their rejected devotees to India. If any devotee is not good in their zone they say, "Okay, we'll send them to India." But here we have such big projects that we need devotees who will follow the rules strictly and who will listen to authorities.

Prabhupāda: So tell them. If they have rejected and you also reject them, where they will go? Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we will train them, but these devotees don't cooperate very much. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: All the śāstras have been spoken out by Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā totally.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is substance. Summary of all Vedas. He says therefore, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo.

Dr. Patel: (some muttering in back) Ha. He said yogo apra... yoga can be caught and lost also. But bhakti cannot be lost.

Indian man: What is the any question of lost? How do you get disjoined with the God?

Dr. Patel: Listen, if you are artificially joined, then you are dejoined.

Indian man: No, no. Then it is not yoga at all. Then you stop, automatically (indistinct).

Dr. Patel: That is why (indistinct).

Indian man: Once then you say yoga then you are entering. You are not outside it.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct) There are so many types of yoga, sir, as you know.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā summarizes, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47). That is real yogi.

Dr. Patel: Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmana sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. That is the highest yoga.

Indian man: Yoga means karmendriya-dhāraṇām. Where is the question of yoga...

Dr. Patel: No, no. When the indriya-dhāraṇām is not (indistinct) it becomes (Hindi). Then it is faith, then yoga is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yoga indriya-śamanam. The result of yoga is control-mind and senses, śama, dama.

Dr. Patel: So many types of yoga, even bhakti is called a yoga. Bhakti-yoga.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That Mr. Shah had gone to the States and came back from there, some three months back, and he praised the Americans, that no man on Sunday is in the street. All of them are in the churches, and you hear on the radio only those hymns. Is it a fact?

Prabhupāda: He is American. (indicates Harikeśa)

Harikeśa: Yes, but nobody listens to the radio.

Dr. Patel: He says that at least government does it. Here government is giving all the cinema. And there the churches are overflowing.

Prabhupāda: In London I have seen almost all the churches are vacant.

Dr. Patel: On Sundays? I don't know now. When I was a student I used to see them full, overflowing practically. Because they were beaten down by war very recently, they did not forget God then.

Harikeśa: On Sundays they're pretty full. For a couple of hours they're pretty full.

Dr. Patel: In the morning.

Harikeśa: Then in the afternoon they're vacant. That's when they get their big collection, big collection on Sunday.

Dr. Patel: Sir, everywhere it is the church which has actually distorted the message.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You do not understand that you are ātmā. Aham brahmasmi. That you do not understand. You think "I am body." That is nonsense.

Indian man: That point is not clear.

Prabhupāda: Why not clear? That means your intelligence is not clear.

Indian man: (spluttering) ...naturally, but listen what I say.

Prabhupāda: So, the ātmā, that is stated in the Bhāgavata, antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). Nityasyoktāḥ, nityasyoktāḥ, śarīriṇaḥ. Śarīriṇaḥ means the soul who possesses this body, he is nitya. So, you have to enjoy or suffer the reaction of your activities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). You have got a type of body on account of your activities.

Indian man: But how ātmā... Suppose I am doing some sins? So how ātmā can be controlling. Suffering...

Prabhupāda: You are doing sin, you have to control.

Kīrtanānanda: What does the Lord mean in Bhagavad-gītā when He says that only the modes of material nature act...

Prabhupāda: You are committing sinful life, so you have to rectify yourself.

Indian man: He is the controller of my body, ātmā is the controller of my...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: After bhakti you get the jñāna. (Hindi) We mūḍhas, we go on argument, but unless and until we mūḍhas are convinced, we will remain mūḍhas. We can't help it.

Prabhupāda: There are big mūḍhas who are never convinced.

Dr. Patel: Like me. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, no, listen...

Dr. Patel: I will argue with you instead of.... Mahārāja, you see, I have.... Again we had a very great altercation within myself. I was a.... (break) I may tell you, I have studied the Vaiṣṇava's philosophy from various angles. The last two years I have been making a very deep study of it, and I am a student of this theologian philosophy. I think he is absolutely right, that complete surrendering to God by bhakti...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...you get complete jñāna.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.

Dr. Patel: I was.... Before I thought it was not so, but it is so.

Indian man: But as you are convinced, but I am not convinced.

Dr. Patel: Therefore you read like me and you will be convinced. You study like me, go to temple...

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: Yes. They also do that. They try and... Mainly they try and reconvert the Christians. They get some results. And they pander to the tribal castes so that they don't convert to Christianity. The Mohammedans and Christians have refused to use birth control, so they think that their population will soon outnumber the Hindus. So they are afraid that the Mohammedan and Christian block will sway elections in the future. (break)

Jayapatākā: Brahmacārīs don't like to take the instructions from the elder devotees, and then they want to take sannyāsa, so they think they can be independent and give orders themself and not listen.

Prabhupāda: Therefore not to be given all of a sudden. (break)...to become sevaka. Everyone wants to become sevya.

Hṛdayānanda: Served.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And, ultimately, God. Se pasha pasha pasha bo... (?) When everything failure, then to become God.

Jayapatākā: That's why Lord Caitanya said that "I am not a sannyāsī or a..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa...

Yaśodānandana: Nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir nāpi vaiśyo...

Prabhupāda: Bhṛtyasya-bhṛtya, servant of the servant (CC Madhya 13.80). Everyone, if he wants to become a master, that is materialism. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: They cannot give anything.

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī-bhāṣya sunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169), finished—his spiritual progress is finished if he associates with a Māyāvādī.

Madhudviṣa: It says in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, even if we look upon the face of a pāṣaṇḍī, we should jump in the river with all our clothes on to become immediately purified, what to speak of giving any aural reception to them. But then again we see that Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu listened, you know, attentively for so many hours to Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and also Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. How is it can we understand...?

Prabhupāda: Just to see how the animal is jumping. (to passers-by:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya, jaya. (chuckles) Just like a fish is given freedom, even if he's caught up by the trap. It is like that.

Madhudviṣa: So Lord Caitanya had him on the line all the time.

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya was waiting, "Let the rascal go on speaking. How long he can speak?" (laughs)

Hari-śauri: He just waited till he dried up.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. He's foolish. He knows that he has got some limited stock; it will be finished very soon, so "Let him finish, then I shall capture." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's policy.

Madhudviṣa: But should we take that example or...?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?

Madhudviṣa: We can also listen to the Māyāvādīs and then defeat them like that?

Prabhupāda: If you are so qualified like Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Madhudviṣa: (laughs) Otherwise we should...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise you will be captured.

Madhudviṣa: Otherwise we shouldn't listen.

Prabhupāda: No.

Jayādvaita: In America that's called giving someone enough rope to hang himself.

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Pañcadraviḍa: In South India, when we were down there, we had to do that. We listened to them first and then took their money.

Madhudviṣa: But we also should defeat them.

Pañcadraviḍa: Taking their money is defeating them.

Lokanātha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the position of vrajavāsīs, those who are living in Vṛndāvana now? What happens to them next life?

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, at the.... You talk at the moment, sir. You don't give me post-dated check that "In future I shall be millionaire. Now you take a check of million or..." Shall I accept it?

Carol Jarvis: No, at the moment we're just taking some photographs. We can't let you talk at the moment. You're supposedly listening to my questions.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Carol Jarvis: So for the moment I'll pretend to be asking you some questions for the purposes of cutting the interview.

Prabhupāda: No, you note down that we are asking that you are so expert in manufacturing big, big machine. Why not manufacture a pilot? That is my question.

Carol Jarvis: As I just said, they probably will some day.

Prabhupāda: That "probably" again. That is not possible.

Carol Jarvis: Oh, I don't know. I don't know.

Prabhupāda: You do not know. That is I say. Therefore I say you cannot do it. You do not know it. You cannot manufacture even a small germ, what to speak of pilot. That is the problem. The modern education is they do not know it. "Perhaps," "maybe," this is not scientific proposal.

Room Conversation -- May 5, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They should follow what their spiritual master says. Book selling, there is no question of moral and immoral. They must sell. Just like in fighting. Where there is fight, the soldiers, to gain victory, there is no question of moral and immoral. He must.

Bhūrijana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, but I think the thing I understand least, is that if they are not doing what you want... I mean... I'm sitting before you now and you're telling me and I'm listening, and you are my spiritual master. I must accept.

Prabhupāda: We want that book selling must be increased as much as possible. This we want. The same thing. Let the child take medicine. Never mind the father is speaking lies. That is... Because as soon as he takes the medicine he'll be benefited. End justifies the means. End is that everyone should have a Kṛṣṇa literature. Doesn't matter what is the means. Because he has taken one Kṛṣṇa literature, that justifies everything. This is the principle.

Bhūrijana: How about just collecting without giving any literature? Just collecting. Three months ago I saw it in Australia, with a lying line too. Not telling the truth. And that wasn't very long ago.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (indistinct)

Hari-sauri: Sometimes the devotees are just distributing incense.

Bhūrijana: Nothing.

Hari-sauri: They collect and distribute incense. Sometimes they don't distribute books.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: If we tell them not to read the newspapers, they'll think we're telling them to stop breathing.

Prabhupāda: They..., don't read, you say "I am not reading any other literatures." Just like you say that "I have not gone to cinema house." It is another way of saying that "Don't go to cinema."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Christian missionary was trying to convert the people; so they would not listen. But then when he told that, ah...

Hṛdayānanda: In hell there are no newspapers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In hell there are no newspapers, they went, "Oh!" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Trivikrama: Coal miners.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, coal miners.

Prabhupāda: No newspaper, it is horrible. Ask the health department of government, that "You write on the cigarette box: 'It is injurious.' " What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We are preaching that; give us some money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we're helping them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, intoxication. And see practically, at least take some certificate from the health.

Hṛdayānanda: If they find out that the solution is with God, they would rather have the disease.

Prabhupāda: Apart from God, see practically.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You must have faith.

Richard: I trust that it is.

Prabhupāda: You have to trust.

Richard: Okay, I was listening to him and, you know, I'm hearing a lot, okay, the brain...

Prabhupāda: I mean to say, there are five stages, pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja and aprākṛta. So our process should be to go to the aprākṛta, transcendental knowledge. This is the stages. Just like.... This is explained. We can directly understand that by directly, I'm seeing there is no sun, but when I ask my friend, he says there is sun. So this is also knowledge. This is called parokṣa knowledge, from other sources. Similarly, there are stages. So when the perfect stage is, that is aprākṛta, no more material, all spiritual.

Richard: Okay. The brain, the mind, interprets the senses...

Prabhupāda: Well, the brain, mind, they are instruments.

Richard: Okay, they interpret the senses. Right. Okay.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are instruments.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there are trees, there will be birds.

Hari-śauri: I saw a squirrel down there earlier on as well. Squirrels, there was one just down there earlier on.

Prabhupāda: Ideal. Let there be an ideal section, our people, our men. And do your personal advancement. But that much.... If people come, it's all right. Otherwise, we must make our own life successful.

Mādhavānanda: Once you wrote Gargamuni Swami in Nepal that even if they will not listen, simply by your being there, even if they see you chant japa sitting on a street corner, they will become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Jayādvaita: We got a phone call today from someone in Kalamazoo-it's many hours away. And he met some devotee in a store who was there for purchasing something, and just by talking for a few minutes he decided that he wanted to come here and see you in Detroit. So he was calling on the phone, when would you be here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If we get this land we can cultivate some grains, foodstuff. On account of this water facility you can grow so many things, vegetables, fruits, foodgrains, very nice. Keep cows. (break) Industrial civilization will fail. They are manufacturing simply cars. The time is approaching very swiftly when there will be no more demand for cars.

Mādhavānanda: Already it's failing. They are making so many cars now, and people aren't purchasing. In the newspaper, you see big pictures of huge miles of lots of unsold cars. The whole motorcar business, industry, is going down.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have another trick. Now they make them very cheap so the cars will break down every year.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: Thank you for reading this to me. I'm afraid I must be discourteous and leave you at the moment. I am speaking at a dinner meeting for my university.

Prabhupāda: All right.

George Gullen: I was delighted with Miss Reuther's call, for the chance to come and for this opportunity to listen to you, and I'm very grateful to her for calling.

Prabhupāda: Give him some prasādam.

Lekhaśravantī: Here's some prasādam.

George Gullen: Oh, thank you very much. (end)

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...habituated to sit cross-leg. They have learned also. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. So people in general, they are now out of God consciousness. Is it not?

Scheverman: Yes, I would agree that in our society, that the consciousness of God is definitely on the wane. There's no question about that. We find it very, very difficult, I think, even to speak about the Lord God in the presence of people, because the ears are closed or stopped. There's not a willingness to listen.

Prabhupāda: Why the people have come to this condition, that they are not prepared even to hear about God?

Scheverman: I think, I think that, perhaps...

Prabhupāda: One priest in Boston, he issued one booklet that "These boys, they're our boys, mostly they are coming from Christian or Jewish families. But before this movement, they were not coming even to the church, never inquired about God. Now they are mad after God." He issued one pamphlet like that. These boys.

Scheverman: Oh, you're referring to the young men right here, coming from Boston, that's what you're saying, I see. Right.

Prabhupāda: We have got many places. Los Angeles we purchased one church, a very big church. That church was vacant, nobody was coming. They tried so much to invite men, but nobody was coming. But after we have purchased, the church is the same, and the inhabitants are residents of Los Angeles, but it is always packed up.

Room Conversation -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But Rāmeśvara has not agreed to pay?

Rūpānuga: No, we do not have to get money from BBT this way. This way we do not have to take loan. It is good, because BBT does not have that much money.

Prabhupāda: No, we need, we supply money to India. Depend on Kṛṣṇa; Kṛṣṇa will supply.

Vipina: Jaya. That happened just about less than a month ago. Some gentleman who was a Seventh Day Adventist, he became interested and started to call and come by and listened to the philosophy and even listened to your tapes. And then shortly after that he gave a donation of five thousand dollars. We bought with it some chandeliers for Kṛṣṇa's temple for you to see tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand dollars?

Vipina: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Don't misspend.

Vipina: Not all on chandeliers. Just part of it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You have a bell system?

Rūpānuga: Yes, it rings, but you can't hear it in here. It rings in the back quarters.

Prabhupāda: The doors you have purchased?

Rūpānuga: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is costly?

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: ...and how we danced at the end? You were dancing with karatālas when you were listening to the record.

Prabhupāda: Now we have got our own studio. We also do. What is the name, Allen?

Rūpānuga: Ginsberg?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Rūpānuga: Oh, Coleman.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Coleman, yes. Last time in India, he gave me twenty-five thousand rupees. (laughs)

Rūpānuga: He did?! Wow, twenty-five thousand! He still has the original tape of this record.

Prabhupāda: Let him now do. He wanted to pay me something, but he never paid.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I sent Kṛṣṇa-kānti, he made a, recorded this in South Africa and printed it. It's not actually legal, but we did it because we didn't think it would... This is the most wonderful record for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness because you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So pure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Originally.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People can more appreciate Hare Kṛṣṇa than these bhajanas, because they do not understand.

Prabhupāda: Bhajana, they do... (break) ...Brahmānanda, you...

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So this is confirmation that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if we accept Him as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then you have to accept Him as He says.

Guest (2): As a great power, yes.

Prabhupāda: Not great power, but greatest power. Nobody is greater than Him. That is accepted by the direct listener of Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna. And he is giving evidences of Vyāsadeva, Asita, Devala, Nārada, they are authorities. And in the recent years, the ācāryas Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have all accepted. And He speaks also. Then where is doubt? Where is doubt?

Guest (2): No, I just want to clear this thing, that thing I accept, sir, this thing that it is a great power, the supreme power.

Prabhupāda: Not a great, the great power. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more greater power than Him. That is His position.

Guest (2): My point is, sometimes this, a difference comes in this thing. Suppose a man of other religion says, okay...

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not question of religion. It is a question of God. God is great. That is accepted by all religions. So if Kṛṣṇa is great, then He is God. Where is the argument?

Guest (2): Then they didn't come, just like you stated, that...

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, that was spoken in connection with practicing yoga.

Guest (2): But Arjuna got it due to guru, like Kṛṣṇa means is it possible in this age if one has the right guru, a man, he can elevate himself?

Prabhupāda: You can take Arjuna as guru. Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). He directly listened to Him. And he's guru therefore, because the guru is by the paramparā. So he understood Kṛṣṇa. So you take Arjuna's instruction. Make Arjuna your guru. What does he say? He accepts Kṛṣṇa, Param Brahman. So we accept Kṛṣṇa as Param Brahma. Where is the difficulty? Arjuna, by his direct experience talking with Kṛṣṇa, he understood Him that "Kṛṣṇa, you are Param Brahman." So you take the words of Arjuna and accept Him as Param Brahman. Where is the difficulty? Just like the same example, one lawyer giving example, the judgment of other court. That is accepted. So Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as Param Brahman. So why don't you accept? Where is the difficulty? You accept Arjuna as your guru, and whatever he says, you accept it. The difficulty is that we do not accept guru. That is the difficulty. Otherwise where is difficulty? Five thousand years, Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna, but what Arjuna understood, that is there. So you accept it. What we are doing? We are accepting. That's all. Kṛṣṇa said mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior truth beyond Me." We are accepting, that's all. Where is the difficulty? But if you do not accept, who can make you to accept? It is not possible. Kṛṣṇa therefore said mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. "You do it." He never forces him. He's God, He can force, "You must do it." No, he doesn't say "You do it." Not only that, He says yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), "Whatever you like, you do." What is that verse?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: They just came to listen, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, they must be satisfied. (long pause)

Atreya Ṛṣi: The young man who just came is Terry Graham. He'd come to see you two years ago when you were here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, jaya.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He's a journalist.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, I remember. He has got any questions?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Terry, do you have any questions?

Terry: I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes an atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. Is there some way that, the question is, what is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this prevailing, this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?

Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: How he will understand? He creates difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the supreme authority," and the person who heard from Kṛṣṇa, he says paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam (BG 10.12). He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority, Arjuna. And why we deviate? The speaker says that He is the supreme authority, and the listener, Arjuna, accepts Him. Now why we interpret? What right you have got interpretation?

Mrs. Sahani: We interpret it according to our own design.

Prabhupāda: Eh? You cannot, if you have own design, don't touch Bhagavad-gītā. You make your own design and preach otherwise. Why you take advantage of the Bhagavad-gītā? This is criminal. If you have got a different philosophy, you preach. Everyone has got the right. But why you misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? When you take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and you speak nonsense, that is not good. That has murdered the whole thing. And practically we see that. Bhagavad-gītā as it is, you try to understand, you get the benefit and you life is successful. Besides that, interpretation when it is required. When things are understood directly, there is no question of interpretation. The law of interpretation is like this: when the things are not distinct, then you can interpret in your own way, I can interpret in my own way, but when the things are distinct, there is no question of interpretation.

Mrs. Sahani: If that's so, then we don't understand because we don't want to understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the folly. You don't want to understand.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: About that Vallabhācārya, she wrote me letter, I've replied it. I replied it.

Acyutānanda: Yes, Girirāja told me. I never mention those...

Prabhupāda: No, don't mention it.

Acyutānanda: Because they don't listen. Their history is that Vallabhācārya had the dream and discovered Govardhana and Śrī Nāthajī, Gopāla Deity, and there was no Mādhavendra Purī.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? But in the court it has been established. One lawyer in Delhi, he told me that this Deity belongs to the Gauḍīya-sampradāya. In the court it has...

Acyutānanda: How did it come to them?

Prabhupāda: That Mādhavendra Purī or somebody delivered to Vallabhācārya. Mādhavendra Purī is not possible, somebody else. (break) Dvārakā Śaṅkarācārya, he's a Māyāvādī, and he'll give Bhāgavata?

Acyutānanda: No, he's just going to give blessings to the... He's presiding, I guess. (break)

Prabhupāda: That is also complete like this?

Saurabha: Yes. The other side we are making one special room for you on the roof. So...

Prabhupāda: One special room like this? No.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Host: With your permission I must thank with the permission of Swamiji, my friends, I welcome you to my humble house. Today, though you are all very, very busy, but you have made it a point to come and listen to Swamiji speak to you theory, lessons, and his belief and faith. It depends how we take it. Because I have faith in him, I have faith in his teachings, that is why, I being a politician, I being a member of Parliament and the legislative assembly, deputy minister and the ambassador, I have requested and begged of him to come to my humble house to spread his knowledge, which he is giving to the other parts of the world. Last time he visited in a very similar manner, we have got a small gathering here. So at that time I hope you will pardon me, I couldn't think of you all, thinking that, you know, the journalist friends are my good friends, and they are very knowledgeable friends, and that is why they can put so many questions. And by putting so many questions will get the answers by that we are enlightened. So that is why now it is the time for Swamiji to go for maṅgala-ārati. He has given me something. I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā. My guruji is there, he's doing pūjā. He has given me something when I met him, when I heard him, he has given me a gupta-dāna. That is dātavyam iti yad dānaṁ dīyate 'nupakāriṇe deśe kāle ca pātre ca tad dānaṁ sāttvikaṁ smṛtam. It is in the Seventeenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, it is as far as sukṛta is concerned. So that is why he has given me something that indirectly gupta-dāna. So I said always I should follow. Unfortunately, I could not meet him. Recently when I was..., till recently when I was an ambassador I was to go to Nairobi, I was in Somalia, but unfortunately things couldn't materialize. But now if at all I get an opportunity of going abroad I shall be visiting all the institutions, their organizations, their temples, because I am a member of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, life member. I have canvassed, some have become. Canvassed means I've just put a word. Some have become, I who requested, some of my friends who have not become, to become members of Kṛṣṇa conscious, permanent members, life members, like Mrs. Yamuna is here. Yamuna's husband, Raman Rao is here. And I would like you also to become, others also to become.

Prabhupāda: I was explaining, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). If the big big politicians, head of the state, they understand, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), others will follow.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Automatically he will be anxious to preach. Automatically.

Akṣayānanda: Ultimately.

Prabhupāda: Not ultimately. Automatically. Just like in a small time, our, that Kṛṣṇa dāsa? He knows English, he knows French, he knows... What does it mean? He has heard it. Now he'll want to speak. That is the natural sequence. If anyone has listened from the authority about Kṛṣṇa, he wants to speak again. That is preaching. Not that "I have listened about Kṛṣṇa, that's all right." No. When he wants to speak to others, that is advancement. That is wanted. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. That is the test that he has advanced. Nāma, rūpa, guṇa, līlā (indistinct).

Devotee: Does he have to speak immediately, or he can speak after some time.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not immediately. Immediately how you can speak. Unless he knows, what he'll speak? It is better not to speak than speaking all nonsense. He must learn first of all what is the philosophy, what is the science. Then he can speak. (break)

Vipramukhya:. These Turks are yavanas? Demons and yavanas?

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore the color has faded? He is a rascal.

Harikeśa: I remember that when these Deities... They're never to be washed. Never water was to touch. Supposed to put a plastic bag over the Deity. That was... If you have to use the big Deities, you're supposed to cover them with plastic.

Prabhupāda: Why did you allow? Just see, this is the disease. Rascals they do not know. And although I was...

Dhanañjaya: No, but everyone was listening to him. He was posing himself as the most learned in Deity worship.

Prabhupāda: That he's fond of.

Dhanañjaya: He was introducing Hari-bhakti-vilāsa.

Harikeśa: But it doesn't say in Hari-bhakti-vilāsa that you bathe in water marble Deities. It says you're supposed to have a smaller set for bathing. That's in Hari-bhakti-vilāsa.

Dhanañjaya: His idea was that we would become the most famous temple for bathing big Deities in Vṛndāvana. This was his idea.

Prabhupāda: That bathing is not done on the siṁhāsana. The Deity is taken out. Then it is done. But that is very risky. You cannot do it.

Dhanañjaya: And besides that, the bathing was done by devotees who are not experienced in Deity worship.

Prabhupāda: Don't allow him. This botheration he has gone. He is simply posing himself very learned Sanskrit scholar, above everything. That is his ambition.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Doctor: That's very interesting. So every time you drink water...

Prabhupāda: You can remember Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong and what is the loss there? But you follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Yes, sit down. There is no difficulty to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. (microphone moves)

Doctor: Why do you tape record?

Hari-śauri: Everything Prabhupāda speaks we tape record and then everyone in the world can listen.

Doctor: Someone said that the word om is given to sannyāsīs and it...

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa does not say.

Doctor: It's not so.

Prabhupāda: "Someone," we don't take authority. "Someone." There are so many "someones." We don't care for them. What Kṛṣṇa says we accept. That's all.

Doctor: But this Kaṭha-Upaniṣad praises om.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...that Kṛṣṇa will (indistinct) money.

Devotee: Also another thing, this is... You may remember when you were in Los Angeles last time, Kṛṣṇa-kanti and Mangalananda asked you if they could do this contemporary style music with Kṛṣṇa lyrics. So this is the very first copy. Actually there's not much to see it's just like any other album. This is the first test pressing.

Hari-śauri: He has a cassette which you can listen to some time if you want.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can listen. Play it.

Devotee: You would like to hear something?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: It's done to like modern popular music.

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Hari-śauri: With the lyrics about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you keep one record player.

Hari-śauri: Well record players are a bit bulky to carry. They have it on cassette.

Prabhupāda: No, this time anyone comes, ask them to bring one record player. Japanese record player is very cheap.

Devotee: Yeah, I think that's a good idea to have because all these albums are coming out now.

Room Conversation -- November 25, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa: Apparently in a new BBT newsletter which just came yesterday afternoon there's a statement by Rāmeśvara that you were asked whether this record should be played in the temples and you said, "Why not in the temples?" Hari-śauri thought that you said "not in the temples," Rāmeśvara said...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not in the temple. I... I want... If the wordings are all right, so there is no... If there is no mistake in the set-up of the wording, the change of musical tune, that is not harmful.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This one tape that Alex has made, he gave me a copy in Bombay to listen. I just played it...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, this vibration, you can make in different tune. We are already doing that.

Hari-śauri: We're talking about these songs that they are writing.

Jagadīśa: Philosophy songs.

Prabhupāda: And therefore we have to see the words.

Hari-śauri: Like this "caterpillar had a change of heart."

Jagadīśa: If the words are all right, then they can be played in the temple?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because no one can hear the words. It's the pop music that people hear.

Akṣayānanda: Actually the words are just like modern pop songs. You can't tell really what it means. I suggested to those people. I said, "Why don't you put music to Prabhupāda's books? Take the words straight from your..."

Hari-śauri: No, Prabhupāda's approved this method for attracting karmīs.

Room Conversation -- November 25, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: The question is whether should it be played in the temple or not?

Prabhupāda: Temple may not be played. What is use of playing in the temple?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I know from practical experience, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that... I just played this Alex's record. It's all current pop music with English philosophy wording. And all the brahmacārīs were so agitated, they came to my room to listen and they were, you know, really making fun of it like it was a pop...

Akṣayānanda: Because that style of music it reminds us of the nightclubs or whatever it might be.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said it is better not to make these records.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Just your these records and paramparā records should be played, I think. There are so many tapes of your records.

Hari-śauri: This style that they are doing now, they explain that they wanted that because then that way, they'll be able get them played on the radio. Otherwise they won't play bhajanas or anything on the radio. But there's a distinction between that kind of music and pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness music. Even though the words indicate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, most of the songs are written in such a way that it's indirect. It's not directly Kṛṣṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But you can't hear the words.

Prabhupāda: Yes, indirect.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): But that you have said, that one of his colleague or assistant told to Gandhi that "There is danger, and you shouldn't go to the meeting," and in spite of that...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not say. I wrote one letter to Gandhi that, "Mahatmaji, you have got some respectability throughout the whole world. Now you struggled for so-called svarāja. Now you have got it. Better retire from this life and preach Bhagavad-gītā."

Guest (1): I think he listened to your advice because before he was murdered, on that day...

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Otherwise you'll meet the fate of Mussolini."

Guest (2): And what was his reply?

Prabhupāda: He did not reply.

Guest (1): He drafted that statement that Congress should be dissolved. It should be.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He was implicated. This is māyā, that although he got svarāja, he was not free. He was full of anxiety, and he he was not at all... (aside:) Ayi. Jaya. So long one is absorbed in material thoughts, he'll be full of anxieties.

Guest (1): That's true. He was full of anxieties.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he could not get any spiritual idea. Asad grahāt. Material existence means accepting something which will not exist, asat. Asato mā sad gamaya. The Vedic instruction is: "Do not remain in this material world, and make your progress..." Asato mā sad gamaya. But people are so accustomed to materialistic way of life that they are reluctant. That is māyā, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very, very difficult. Māyā tries to punish every conditioned soul, and as soon as there is some attempt to get out of the clutches of māyā, she becomes still strong: "Where you shall go my dear son? You remain with me." Yaḥ devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra-rūpiṇa sam...(?) In the Caṇḍī, yaḥ devī, he is situated, keeping the conditioned souls in dream. He is simply dreaming, "I'll be happy in this way; I'll be happy in that way." And that is mental concoction. He'll never be happy. Kṛṣṇa said moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ, āsurīṁ bhāvam āśri... (BG 9.12). Because he has not recognized the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all his hopes and endeavors will be baffled. So even a person like Mahatma Gandhi, he became baffled.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, everything is less.

Dr. Patel: Then you stay here. And you're completely home, without anything. You are not prepared to... This is...

Prabhupāda: As soon as this building is, I will take. (?)

Dr. Patel: We listen to you, but you don't listen. That is the misfortune of ours. Huh?

Prabhupāda: Actually, I have got so many engagements. Actually, I have got engagement in Bhuvaneśvara...

Dr. Patel: And you are going to Bhuvaneśvara after fifteen days, no?

Prabhupāda: ...Calcutta, in Allahabad, then Māyāpur, then Vṛndāvana, then Bombay.

Dr. Patel: So to make you fit to go round, you must do something. It's very logical.

Guru dāsa: "Penny wise, pound foolish."

Dr. Patel: So let pound be wise for the penny foolish. If you do in right path then you may not break down like (indistinct) getting all this trouble. (break) ...at least for four, five days. We don't want any more. In one day we will find out what to, how to, this will be cured. I don't mean medicine, but even advice, food, this, that, other things. If you get rid of the medicine, well, all medicines are, I mean, synthetics. They are not produced from animals. Many of them. (break)

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...that sound all the time. (sounds of birds)

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...this grass.

Indian man: That is a very good, that was wanted by (indistinct), he is taking every day.

Prabhupāda: In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all varieties of work can be utilized. (Hindi) Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). He got perfection, Vaiyāsaki, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, simply narrated. Narration is also kīrtana. Recitation of Bhāgavatam. By reciting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam he became perfect. Abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. Śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣit. Parīkṣit Mahārāja simply listened. There are navadhā-bhakti, nine kinds of bhakti process. Any one of them, you be expert and you'll be perfect. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). So, where his family?

Indian man: He has got one son and daughter. His family is in Bombay. One son is expired earlier. And he has got good talent of teaching Hindi, music, and tape recording. He's such work. And she knows cooking, very good cooking.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if she gives cooking direction.

Indian man: She is also quite expert in cooking. (Hindi) He plays very good harmonium.

Indian man (2): All musical instruments.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't want to introduce harmonium.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: That was my idea, that they should chant half an hour japa before class, and then sit in the posture and then have the philosophy because the chanting... First of all explain the purpose of chanting to fix the mind; then, once they've chanted, then they can sit and listen, and because they've chanted, they'll be that much more attentive.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's good idea. That's good idea. First chanting, second chanting.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: First chant half an hour...

Prabhupāda: Then lesson, take lesson. And then chant another...

Hari-śauri: Then, after that, some kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Japa first, then class and then kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: At last kīrtana.

Hari-śauri: That would be like half an hour, an hour.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will commit so many mistakes and they'll take it for granted. Just like this "Nitāi-Gaura, Rādhe-Śyāma." That is avoided for kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. There are so many mistakes, rasābhāsa. So two things are there always, two sides. One for the mahā-bhāgavata, one for the ordinary kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī. So in the temple it is to be supposed generally for the madhyama-adhikārī and kaniṣṭha-adhikārī especially. So in the temple we should not...

Hari-śauri: We should just listen to whatever the ācāryas have...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: I remember once before, a few years ago, you sent a letter out saying that no one should try to compose songs or...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I do not encourage. What they will compose? They have no realization. But they're speaking something about Kṛṣṇa. That's his beginning. Just like a child, he speaks half-broken. That is not language. It has no meaning. But still the child, "Ah, ah, you are so nice. You are so nice." Because he's trying to speak something. "Papa, mama." And mama is... Not that his words are complete.

Hari-śauri: When we go out and preach and we just repeat or try to repeat whatever we've heard from the spiritual master, but we may not have fully realized what we're speaking about, does that somehow or another reduce the potency of the Gītā or the Bhāgavatam or...

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And they go, the so-called yogis, swamis go. They, it enters into this ear, goes out this ear. That's all. No effect. "Bag bhak."(?) (Hindi) ...effective. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. (Hindi) "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord."

Indian (1): It's a wonderful thing.

Prabhupāda: "And you just surrender unto Him." And anyone who is doing, he's getting the perfect wisdom.

Indian (1): Hundreds and thousands people are listening to the message of the Lord.

Prabhupāda: We are selling these books, daily five to six lakhs, daily. What is the message? "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That's all. In one week, how many books you have sold?

Jagadīśa: In one week we sold 700,000 books. Seven lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Seven lakhs' books in one week.

Indian (1): In one week. Wonderful thing.

Prabhupāda: Religious books selling, seven lakhs of books in a week, there is no history.

Indian (1): There is no another example.

Prabhupāda: And where we are selling? Where Christians are there. They are not Hindus, that they'll read Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata and Cai... They're all Christian, Jews, Muslims. In Muslim country we are also selling. Yes.

Indian (1): Iran, Pakistan.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Hari-śauri: (in background) Is Pālikā in there? Listen, Prabhupāda wants some... Have you got any of that mango candy? Can you cut some fruit for Prabhupāda?

Jagadīśa: They're helping us to spread Kṛṣṇa's glories.

Rāmeśvara: Now, they say... Just like in Los Angeles we have sued the family for two million dollars, two and a half million dollars, because they kidnapped their girl. So they say that the girl, she would not have done this, but because we told her to do it, therefore she did it. Therefore there is control. We are controlling her.

Prabhupāda: We must because you checked her freedom.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why did you kidnap? Therefore we must teach him some lesson.

Jagadīśa: Everyone acts in such a way to please his friends, anyway.

Rāmeśvara: Their argument is that this girl who was kidnapped, she still likes her family, but now we have told her, "You must sue them." So therefore she is doing it. So therefore she is not free. She is... We are controlling her.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you want to control her. We are controlling, but you want to control her. So if you can control, why shall I not control? Why you are poking your nose? We shall cut your nose. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But they have never used it against us. But now they have started. One devotee, a girl from Berkeley temple who is a very big book distributor... Sometimes she could collect five, six hundred dollars in one day. She was just kidnapped—by order of the court. They have a psychologist who listens to the parents' description, and on the basis of that secondhand report the psychologist...

Prabhupāda: No, kidnapping, that is already law there. If one is minor or without the permission of the parent, with police force she or..., can be kidnapped.

Rāmeśvara: But this is not for minors. This is for adults.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh.

Rāmeśvara: This is a new thing, that the psychologist will write some report to the court that "Based on the information I have received, this person is not mentally competent. Therefore this person must be put under the guardianship of their parents even if they are an adult. Otherwise they will harm themselves." So in this way the psychologists...

Prabhupāda: But any psychologist will give report or anyone can...

Rāmeśvara: Anyone. You just pay him, and he'll give you a report. They are rascals. And then the court issues an order that "Now this person's freedom is taken away," and she's put under the charge of her family for thirty days. Then they come with the police, and they give the paper, and they take her away by force, and they fly her to one of these camps where they harass her for thirty days.

Gargamuni: Brainwash.

Rāmeśvara: Try to break their faith.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Sītā was put into the fire and she came out unburned. Sītā was blasphemed, that "This woman was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, and Rāmacandra is so henpecked that He has again picked up her and living with her." So Rāmacandra put him (her) in the fire and she came unharmed.

Rāmeśvara: You were asking me what is the use of, say, if you came to America, if you were on television. But actually people are very interested in this issue, so they will listen. They are listening to see us, hoping that we will be exposed.

Prabhupāda: Now, Hari-śauri was (saying) that there are many fanatics. They may attack me: "He's the man who has started this movement."

Gargamuni: Yes.

Hari-śauri: These deprogrammers will go to any length.

Gargamuni: They'll do anything to stop it. You'd have to have professional bodyguards.

Rāmeśvara: This Reverend Moon, he is not being attacked. The other leaders aren't.

Gargamuni: I think you should carry on your fighting from India through your other men.

Rāmeśvara: Or at least a place like Hawaii.

Gargamuni: I feel if you went to America during this fight it may be very dangerous also.

Rāmeśvara: It's possible.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: "Because he is rascal, therefore he's 'ex,' excommunicated. My Guru Mahārāja kicked him out, so what is the value of his word?"

Gargamuni: We can say these men were excommunicated.

Prabhupāda: Ex means he's executed. That's all. He's finished.

Satsvarūpa: Why listen to his testimony? We can say, "Why listen to his testimony?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not take our testimony? We are... Now take.

Gargamuni: Even in the church they do that. If some priest is not following or introduces something new, they are excommunicated. So we have excommunicated him. Why he should be listened to?

Prabhupāda: He's no more in this.

Gargamuni: That's legal. In the church they do that. Why we cannot do?

Prabhupāda: That is natural. Somebody will go out and speak against us.

Satsvarūpa: The demons are very eager to hear. "Oh, tell us what they did to you."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) "That is not your business. You better ask because you have taken him as authority. You have already taken him as authority, the excommunicated member. So you ask him." These things will happen. In preaching, you cannot expect very smooth path going. Otherwise what is the use of preaching?

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, this Nitāi and others, they have...

Satsvarūpa: You're not associated with Rādhā-kuṇḍa and that...

Pṛthu-putra: Oh, no. That was long time ago. Anyway, I was just staying in one place and didn't listen to anyone.

Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇadāsa Bābājī, he's of the same type. Not only he, mostly. Because their theory is this, to pick up some woman who is not your wife, she must be parakīyā, other's wife. And making Rādhārāṇī, and you become Kṛṣṇa, and this is parakīyā... And pointed out by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he's a kali-celā. Ei ota eka kali-celā, nāke tilaka galāi mālā, and sahajiyā bhajana kache mamur saṅge lana pare bala.(?) This is... It's not new thing. It is coming since a long time. Otherwise how Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura... He's our like grandfather.

Satsvarūpa: This discussion with Pṛthu-putra Mahārāja and the devotees in Europe doesn't so much concern those bābājīs as this business of the, when something is visited, when you have a visitation from the subtle plane, whether to take it as important or not. But you've already explained the position, to go on with your duty and not consider the message very important. Sometimes they speak of...

Prabhupāda: No, suppose you have seen that a gold mountain has come in your possession. Will you be satisfied with that?

Pṛthu-putra: No.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I do not follow what you say.

Satsvarūpa: Just like...

Prabhupāda: Ideal. We are giving the ideal.

Satsvarūpa: But no one's listening and no one's taking it up except a few...

Prabhupāda: But you take. You show them.

Hari-śauri: That's why we say, "we."

Prabhupāda: That "We said" means not we are going to take them, but we are simply giving the ideas. We are not going to be a śūdra. But to show the... Just like you play in a drama. You are playing the part of a king. You are not a king.

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: So similarly, just to give them idea, we have to play like that.

Hari-śauri: Well, again, that's...

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily that we are going to be śūdra. So that is it. That is the thing. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And as servant of Kṛṣṇa, we have to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So call him. That's all. (break) First of all say, "You have no brain."

Hari-śauri: If we present these points in the right way, then we'll have to make them consider these points as being valid. They can... 'Cause there's so many things in our literature that they can just not believe and claim as just plain ridiculous, but by your presentation it becomes acceptable.

Prabhupāda: You talk with them again. They're intelligent. You can talk, yes. It is recorded again, again.

Hari-śauri: Yes. I'm making spares of all these tapes, so they can take them back with them and listen to them.

Prabhupāda: All tell, "You have no brain. So where is the question of brainwash?" That you have to prove, that "You have no brain. You are all dull-headed, animals." This is our challenge. "And animals cannot... Their brain cannot be washed, but washed, I have brain, yes... Because a human being, we have tried. At the present you have no brain. All useless."

Hari-śauri: But, you say, by presenting this to the court, then they'll have to prove or they'll have to try and disprove or establish that they have a brain, and then the whole thing come out, what is actual intelligence and what is simply cat-and-dog intelligence.

Pradyumna: Then we say also ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). We say "washing."

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Real mother.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is from divorced family. Jayapatākā's mother, my parents, Brahmānanda's parents. Brahmānanda's mother called him. We think that they were trying to deprogram Brahmānanda, because the second day that Brahmānanda arrived in New York, suddenly his mother called. How could she have gotten news that he was coming to New York? We never told her. But as soon as he arrived in New York she called him. So we ascertained they are listening to all of our telephone conversations. And they know. They are writing. The deprogrammers are writing to all of the devotees' parents in the movement, and they are going and talking to the parents, saying, "Do you know what your son..." or "Do you know what your daughter is doing? Are you aware that your daughter has lost all of her free choice? That they're being brainwashed now by this cult? That they are giving her... They have spoiled her whole life?" In this way they try to pollute the minds of the parents who are innocent.

Hari-śauri: They're doing that everywhere, too. In Australia they're doing the same thing there, too.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they know all of the devotees' parents' names. Because the few devotees who do become deprogrammed, they give them all the names they know. And they have some informers within our temple also. All of our parents have told us that the deprogrammers contacted them.

Prabhupāda: They're organized.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So then you have to go?

Ādi-keśava: But they have to do it because they will listen to the professionals. They won't listen to us. They say, "You just want to talk your religion." But if a professional man, a big professor, comes in and says, "I can tell you..."

Prabhupāda: We have got so many professor friends. There is Dr. Stillson Judah, Dr. Sukla. There are so many.

Ādi-keśava: Dr. Sukla is here in India now.

Prabhupāda: And our doctors also, Ph.D., they can go.

Ādi-keśava: We wanted to have our Ph.D.'s go.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.

Ādi-keśava: Especially I've been speaking with Mādhava in Boston, but Rūpānuga was telling them that they should just stay and write for the journal and not go out and preach. I wanted them to go and speak on our behalf as Ph.D.'s.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is now necessary.

Ādi-keśava: They are eager to do it.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh. He's not in his...?

Hari-śauri: He's not in his room.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He may be taking prasāda now. He was... I had a talk with him today. He was a little... I was surprised that he was complaining that the prasādam is the same every day. In other words, his complaint is that although we are giving... Of course, he may be critical, overcritical. I think that is a fact. But still, we should listen a little bit. Now every day there's at least seven sabjis. I mean, that's a big variety. But his point is that every day it's the same seven sabjis.

Prabhupāda: That is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: So you have to manage that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll make... They should listen to that point because it's a valid point. He's right.

Prabhupāda: They are very expert.

Hari-śauri: They fed us very nicely when we were there in Fiji.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They are very expert.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said. He said, "In my house one day it is rice and dāl. Next day, it is khicuṛi."

Prabhupāda: That is the way. If you supply the same thing, it becomes hackneyed.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Rādhā-vallabha: I will. I'll let him listen to the tape.

Prabhupāda: He should be encouraged.

Rādhā-vallabha: All right.

Prabhupāda: He is good boy.

Rādhā-vallabha: I have other things to ask you on other books. Would you rather I ask you a different time?

Prabhupāda: Not now.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (offer obeisances)

Rādhā-vallabha: Tonight there will be a play. I heard it was after ārati, first part of Rāmāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. I'll see.

Rādhā-vallabha: You're coming to see it? I'll tell them. Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rādhā-vallabha: Jaya. (end)

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So everyone who will come I will have to give one and a half hour?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wanted you to stop talking to the reporter and begin talking to the doctor. What good the doctor will do, but the reporter can do so much good.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) When I say do this, he can do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He listens.

Prabhupāda: So one must be cooking expert.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So he's a nice choice.

Prabhupāda: And if Upendra can do like Bhavānanda, then it is very nice. Let him he trained up. He can do. (discussing cleaning of floor) Now it is black.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is starting to shine.

Prabhupāda: The more we do...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is like shining one's heart.

Prabhupāda: This is, this is marble.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were discussing that this paper that it came out in is a small, very small paper. Probably... The question is whether any newspaper... I mean, why such a small newspaper carried the story and not a big newspaper? That is the real question. I mean, obviously the man must have gone to many places. But why no one would touch that story? That is the next thing. Because they're all afraid. They're also implicated. They all reported. That means they were also implicated.

Prabhupāda: I don't think we shall add in our...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we concluded that... The thing is that it's clear... This man will probably get no... No one will listen to him. Everybody will think that it is raving of a madman. Just like whenever the reporters... I remember the Los Angeles...

Prabhupāda: He has given very good reasoning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything is reasonable. But so were your reasons. Just like when you met with the reporter from Los Angeles Times, I remember last year... When this question comes up they, inside they are laughing. When they hear our opinion they think it is a joke. They cannot conceive that the whole thing could be a hoax. We were discussing that actually, that the nation is more dear to most people than their family is, because one will get divorced from his family, but who will give up citizenship? Very rarely does anyone give up his citizenship. But people divorce again and again. So to... The nation is something very strong, that affection, and nation, in America, means this moon shot, all of these things, the truthfulness of the leaders. So this is too shocking. Probably the American people could not swallow it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) Lie.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Jhansi climate was nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Acharya Prabhakar tells me stories of his staying with you. He stayed with you for two years, he says.

Prabhupāda: He arranged for a very palatial building, yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He says you would make him listen to your writings. Sometimes you would write all night, I think he told me. I spoke to him on the phone when I was at Vele(?). He sends you his daṇḍavats. He says he's ready to move in when the Vṛndāvana gurukula is ready. He says he'll move to Vṛndāvana and do whatever you want him to do in the gurukula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Mohatta, he also passed through Shivapuri. So he... When I told him there were some woods, some forests, he said, "Oh, then it must be Shivapuri." I said, "How did you know that?" He said, "Because of all the pla... That is the only place where there's even a little bit of forests." He said, "It is not much forest, but there is something." He said, "Otherwise, Madhya Pradesh is generally very dry, but the Shivapuri district..."

Prabhupāda: Hm, Shivapuri.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...is best in Madhya Pradesh." He knew of it.

Prabhupāda: Forest and open place combined together becomes healthy. Besides that, in particular place the water is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say best in district.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?

Indian man (9): There is a big hall here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a hall over here.

Indian man (9): There is a big hall here where lot of people can come, because lot of people want to listen you.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)

Indian man (9): It is only fifty steps, hundred feet, yes, not more than that.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's raining again.

Prabhupāda: You have shown our books to these gentlemen?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have a few books here.

Prabhupāda: Hm. You can show some of them. (Hindi conversation) Call him. You can perform kīrtana here. That will... (Hindi conversation). So go to the hall and begin kīrtana immediately. You can go. So you can go and have kīrtana.

Indian man (8): But we can start here also.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Impressed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We arrived at the courthouse and waited in the big hallway while the Reverend went through to the public gallery. The plainclothesman who arrested us soon turned up, now dressed in uniform. It took a little persuasion before they cautiously took some of Lord Nityānanda's prasāda in the form of cookies while we waited for our case to turn up." The devotees brought prasādam with them to the courtroom and were distributing. "A stir went... At last we were beckoned into the courthouse itself and ushered into the dock. A stir went around the assembly in the court. Shaven heads and saffron robes were the last thing anyone expected to see in Her Majesty's court on a Tuesday afternoon. The magistrate, a balding, portly man in his late middle age, a red nose in his dark grey suit, surveyed us over the top of his gold-rimmed spectacles. We affirmed our plea of not guilty to the clerk of the court, and one of the constables who was sworn in at the witness box proceeded to report the supposed conditions of our arrest. The actual number of the chanting nagara-saṅkīrtana party miraculously grew from the original five first of all to seven when he started his account, and later to eight persons when he described how three devotees ran off and escaped arrest. According to his description, it seemed that many more people had been using Oxford Street than we had been aware of. Indeed, unlimited numbers of pedestrians had been obstructed and forced into the road at the grave risk of being run over by the almost nonexistent traffic. The judge listened impartially and then, since we had no advocate to speak on our behalf, he asked if we would like to cross-examine the evidence of the policeman. When we humbly pointed out that the constable, like everyone else, had imperfect senses, that he had contradicted himself in assessing the actual number of devotees, the judge politely suggested that it was a mathematical error. A titter of laughter rippled around the courtroom at his remark, while the police constable shuffled his feet and looked embarrassed. We were asked if we ourselves would like to speak for our defense, so having been previously chosen as a spokesman, I volunteered to be sworn in at the witness box. Surprised when the usher asked me to hold a copy of Bhagavad-gītā, I read out the words of the card presented before me." He didn't swear on the Bible; he swore on the Bhagavad-gītā. " 'I swear by almighty Śrī Kṛṣṇa that the evidence I give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.' Encouraged by smiles from the devotees in the dock, I began to describe the circumstances of our arrest, this time as they actually had happened. The magistrate listened as I went on to say, 'We understand that the police have a duty to perform, sir, but we also have a duty.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were recording your translation.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who would do the typing?

Prabhupāda: I was doing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean afterward you would listen to it and type.

Prabhupāda: (pause) No, typing I was doing in my own mind. Some songs I was recording. Typing not from this. That, I was seeing book, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you mean you would translate and then type it immediately.

Prabhupāda: From writing I was typing. (pause) Flies are more cunning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...material body. So as soon as there is material attraction, the village organization will not stand because the other material attraction is industry. So because he's materially attracted, he'll say that "If I do industry, I get hundred rupees. Why shall I plow for five rupees?" That simply they do not know. Gandhi's plan failed there. If materially they are after material enjoyment, so if he gets hundred rupees, he thinks that "I will enjoy more. Why shall I be sticking to the service?" Then the village program will fail. They will go for the hundred rupees. That civilization they do not know. After all, they are all rascals. They won't take lesson from us or from the Vedic culture. Therefore it is failure.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This temple is really something. Tonight...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every evening, from six to seven, Bhakti-prema Mahārāja, he gives lecture in Hindi. The place is packed.

Prabhupāda: Oh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, every night it's packed solid. And all high-class people. There's no low-class people there. And they all listen very attentively. And he's lecturing. He gives lecture seven nights a week. Then there's ārati, and the people flock. Even more people come for the ārati, because they love to see the Westerners jumping up and down, and they love to see the ārati. Both things are big attraction. And then there's an English lecture. Then people leave by then, because by then it's 7:45. Everyone has to go home. So the devotees are there for English class, Bhagavad-gītā class. This temple has a tremendous life already. It's really very successful. I was wondering that isn't there some kind of system where we can give everyone who comes some prasādam?

Prabhupāda: I introduced that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are doing. They give for free.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the thing is, you know... I feel like some people, they... Oh, yeah. They sell and they give. Selling is in a nice cup. You can buy mahā-prasādam. And beyond that, they also give to anyone who wants.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is their... Apauruṣeyam. Actually India's culture is going on that way. Mass of people, they are going to Prayāga for taking bath. What do they know? They have received it from authorities that if you take bath in such and such place... Ah, lakhs of people will go. That is India's culture. Without any advertisement, without any means, walking hundreds of miles they are coming, yes, that is their culture. And the government is perturbed that people are so prejudiced. So how to make them forget? This is going on. But they don't listen. They just, "If I take bath I'll..." That is the difference between Western and Eastern. And as soon as there is interpretation, it is Māyāvāda. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has rejected-māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). You see in the Kumbhamela how peacefully they are sitting. They are accepting Vedic culture. So nice atmosphere. Simply by going there you'll be satisfied. That is the difference between East and West.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti...

(BG 7.3)

Therefore tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). There is no other. Submissive. (break) Guru. Tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante. The author is revealed to him. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve (ŚU 6.23). Otherwise not. So do it as far as possible to your capacity. But things are inconceivable. You cannot adjust within the limitation of your understanding. That is not...

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It will be so attractive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "These trailers could be used to distribute Your Divine Grace's books in many new, inaccessible places. I would like to know if this meets with your kind approval."

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We have a model of saṁsāra on display in our shop window, and all day long we are getting dozens of curious passersby from the street who inquire submissively and listen attentively to the philosophy. I remember Your Divine Grace telling me emphatically..."

Prabhupāda: Try to sell them Bhagavad-gītā, which explains.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I remember in Bombay in 1974 that this would make our preaching successful all over the world."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Now I am practically..."

Prabhupāda: Without reading books they'll understand the philosophy. That is the advantage. Mass of people, without education, they will understand the philosophy.

Bhāgavatāśraya: It's like the circus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I have sent out an advertisement to all centers to encourage them to order Guru and Gaurāṅga Deities from us. We can deliver these to them in very short time and at a lower cost than the Jaipur craftsmen."

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He is very slow, printing.

Abhirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda? If this point was raised in Parliament, then that man could not be Jyotir Basu. That would be Jyotirmoy Basu. He is M.P. from West Bengal.

Prabhupāda: So whatever it may be, it is Communist plan.

Abhirāma: But he is expected to make such statements. He is always making so many statements, and no one listens, again and again and again. It is his style. They expect him to...

Prabhupāda: So they are their party men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we should take advantage of this and say, "Oh, there is an issue there? Then let us investigate." We should take advantage of this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The party should take very serious investigation, and if possible, suspend government for the time being.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Suspend the West Bengal government.

Prabhupāda: So that will be nice step.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday we did not give any milk.

Kavirāja: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't take any milk yesterday. Then why the cough came? No, milk won't take away cough.

Kavirāja: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main business is to take away the cough. Wait a second. Just try to understand. No, no, listen. When the cough comes out, Prabhupāda cannot sleep. When Prabhupāda cannot sleep, then he becomes weaker.

Kavirāja: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, the kavirāja gave you medicines which made the cough come out more. That was his idea, to do that purposely. I don't know if you want that, but that was... His idea was to make the cough come out more. You took it that the medicine might not have been acting, but according to him, he wanted that to happen.

Kavirāja: (Bengali) Medicine. Hot water, medicine. (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The swelling has increased since yesterday. It was never so much as today. The mucus was never so much as today. (Bengali-Prabhupāda speaks little Bengali) What did Prabhupāda just say?

Sac-cid-ānanda: Prabhupāda telling that he already gave two dose of these medicines here, that according to Prabhupāda thinking he will use the medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He will take the medicine.

Sac-cid-ānanda: If necessary, he will stop one type medicine getting, or again he can try to take. But if Prabhupāda like, he can take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what Prabhupāda just said? (Bengali-Prabhupāda and Kavirāja)

Prabhupāda: The havoc caused, the medicine.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very nice. Good combination.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's been there now, Parivrājakācārya Swami, he's been there now for, I think, two or three years now. He's worked pretty faithfully there. He tricks them. In the guise of teaching a little haṭha-yoga, then he teaches bhakti.

Prabhupāda: That is preaching.

Brahmānanda: You also tricked us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you came to New York. You were just chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and speaking on Bhagavad-gītā, and we came and we listened, and then you took everything. You took our lives, took all of our money... (devotees chuckle) We left our families.

Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali word, "Enter like a needle and come out like a plow." (laughter)

Hari-śauri: "Enter like a needle and come out like a plow."

Prabhupāda: If you say in the beginning, "I am a plow," he'll not allow you to enter. Say "I am needle." Let us try to serve Kṛṣṇa. He'll give all intelligence. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. Now go on. Take rest.

Hari-śauri: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya-ho.

Hari-śauri: Would you like some chanting?

Prabhupāda: Chanting I like always. (Bengali) (end)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can try.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. You should do it just to please us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Upendra: You can take the shoulders and... (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people were in the temple tonight. The kīrtana party that has come from Māyāpur, they were chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa very sweetly, and the whole temple room was filled with people sitting, listening and waiting for the ārati. Very nice program. Think you'll try to take a little now. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Bhakti-caru can feed you.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll sit up for a little while? Can I scratch your back?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Would you like Jayādvaita and Pradyumna to come again?

Prabhupāda: Hm. If you can make some resting place, then I can sit down more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean with pillows in the back? Shall we do just now? Okay.

Prabhupāda: It is giving pain.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're just getting some round pillows from upstairs. That will be very good. They'll be here in a minute, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: I argued right back with them. I said, "You..." They were saying that we shouldn't interpret Bhagavad-gītā. I said, "Then why are you saying that Kṛṣṇa means 'divine consciousness'? Where does Kṛṣṇa say 'divine consciousness'? He says, mām, aham. He doesn't say 'divine consciousness.' He says 'to Me.' "

Prabhupāda: And all the ācāryas say. We have to follow the ācāryas. Very good. They do not answer. And they... Is it not?

Brahmānanda: But they don't listen to you. We tell them the truth, but they don't want to hear it. They just want to come and become important by their attending this meeting, become puffed up and speak their own ideas and think that they're accomplishing some real...

Prabhupāda: That may be (indistinct).

Brahmānanda: One of the delegates, he is sitting there, and he was spinning thread on a hand spinner. Then afterwards he stopped and even he fell asleep during the meeting. We were arguing about personalism and impersonalism, and Mr. Bajaj, he interrupted that "Now, you shouldn't... The purpose of this meeting is not to discuss Bhagavad-gītā but just to discuss how to promote Bhagavad-gītā."

Prabhupāda: No idea of... He has no authorized.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So think over. I am unable to do now. I can simply give you warning. It is very dangerous. Hm?

Jayādvaita: We have so many experiences that someone associates with these people and he loses his status.

Prabhupāda: They can warn us that "Don't speak of Gītā," and why shall I allow them to speak? Eh?

Bhavānanda: That is such an insult, especially it's our facility. And as soon as you rent out to people, then you are compromised that they can tell you not to speak of Gītā at their Gītā conference in your hall. And you have to listen because they're giving you money.

Akṣayānanda: Because they're paying.

Bhavānanda: It's outrageous.

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I mean I'm more concerned about Bombay, because there in Bombay I feel that... I don't think that there's a proper understanding on the part of some of the leaders there about the danger of this. I think that the leaders there are not very clear on this point. I'm a little worried about Bombay. I think that they're... They're going to compromise. There's a danger for compromisation there.

Jayādvaita: To be popular.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: They can help in something.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's their idea, that they should have somebody. It's very implicating though. I'll tell you, I wouldn't put anybody on that committee, really. It's very implicating. As soon as you go to that coordinating meeting, you're obligated to give them all kinds of facilities. They have nothing that we want, factually speaking. They have nothing. They have not helped us. (to Brahmānanda:) No, they have not helped us. You're listening to what they say, but I know the facts. I know they haven't helped us.

Prabhupāda: Tactfully deal with them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa did nothing. Don't get involved with them, because you'll get so obligated. It's better to say that "Prabhupāda said that simply he will be on the coordinating committee. He doesn't want anybody else to be on for now." I'll say like that. For now, you don't want anybody else. You are present, so that you alone will be on it. I like that.

Brahmānanda: Don't take Prabhupāda's name off.

Prabhupāda: "And in the absence, we shall select another."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I felt very bad whenever they tell me to leave the room like that. I don't like to leave you alone. I get very disturbed. I was standing on the other side of the door. I could not... I didn't like it, to be leaving you alone like that. We're trained always to be with you.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gaura-govinda: Because they are guṇḍās. And these government people, they get vote and come to the power, and these pāṇḍās, they are so powerful that if they will not listen to them, they will topple down their position. They have such apprehension. And publicly also they will create some persecution among them. They have such... That Sadasiva Rath Sharma?(?) That time, Prabhupāda, when you were at Bhuvaneśvara, he came...

Prabhupāda: Ah, ha, ha.

Gaura-govinda: He was telling that when he associated with us, those pāṇḍās told him that "Oh, you have taken some money from these ISKCON people. Therefore you are favoring them." He was criticized, and he was telling me that "Now these pāṇḍās are talking about me like this."

Prabhupāda: He's also a pāṇḍā?

Gaura-govinda: No, he's not a pāṇḍā. He's one of these paṇḍitas of that Mukti-maṇḍapa paṇḍita. He's president. This time, while we were talking with Anantadeva, we said that "Sadasiva Rath Sharma(?) is favoring us, and he gives favorable opinion." Anantadeva said, "No, don't believe him. He's a rascal. He's the most greedy person. He wants much more money." Anantadeva gave this opinion about him.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we go in big numbers like that?

Bhavānanda: Then at Māyāpur there will be at least 150 devotees to greet you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Running down the road? (laughter) Śrīla Prabhupāda, shall I continue with this report? Another thing that's beginning to happen is that the professors, after getting your standing orders and after teaching with your books in their courses, they are starting to become very friendly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For example here is one example cited. He says, it says here, that "Daśaratha Prabhu went straight to the chairman of philosophy who happens to teach in that field, and that chairman also bought a copy of Monograph 2..." which is Svarūpa Dāmodara's science books; these are also becoming important, "...and promised to review it. During this time, Śeṣa was meeting with Fritz Blackwell, an Asian language specialist who has used Kṛṣṇa book in his course as a textbook and has known devotees for four years. Fritz's exchanges with Śeṣa were so intriguing that we shall simply list them one by one. The two passed in the hallway, not knowing each other, but later, when they met, Mr. Blackwell said, 'Oh, I knew you must have been with ISKCON. No one else would be so nicely dressed.' Śeṣa had corresponded with Mr. Blackwell previously and sent him copies of 'The Hare Kṛṣṇa People' and 'Spiritual Frontier' movies to review for a special national survey of audio-visual materials on new spiritual movements. Fritz related that ISKCON's response was the quickest among his many suppliers for the project, and when he told his wife the Hare Kṛṣṇas were the first to send their films, she simply replied, 'They would be.' Śeṣa acquired advance copies of Mr. Blackwell's reviews on the two films, which we'll enclose with this report if possible. Introducing Mr. Blackwell to the Readings in Vedic Literature prompted him to say, 'I will definitely use this in my course next year.' He also agreed to send a review by December. Fritz told Śeṣa, 'It's amazing that you've come today. We're just going to start our study of Kṛṣṇa tomorrow. Can you come and speak in my class?' Śeṣa immediately complied. Fritz introduced him as an authority and personal colleague, so the students listened attentively and took notes.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's about 1:30 now. After taking prasādam we can meet and chalk out a program for parikrama and tīrtha-yātrā. Is that all right? Okay.

Prabhupāda: I thought you have taken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we were all surrounding you, listening very intently to all your instructions.

Jagadīśa: Prasādam has been saved for the devotees that are here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three o'clock we'll meet. So we'll have our meeting, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with Lokanātha also present.

Jagadīśa: Satsvarūpa also.

Prabhupāda: Four o'clock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm? Yes. And then we'll begin tomorrow. Is that soon enough?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should we depart for taking prasādam now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: Who is attending?