Leadership (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"leadership"

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Lenin, Lenin's picture, Lenin's book.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's right.

Prabhupāda: So I told him that "You have created your own god, Lenin. And we have got our own God, Kṛṣṇa. Now, the principle of accepting somebody as God is there, in your philosophy and in my philosophy. So that you cannot avoid. Your communistic philosophy cannot avoid the conception of God, the leader." Just like in Buddha philosophy also, there is the conception of God, of Lord Buddha.

Buddhist Monk (1): No. That's not correct. Because we do not treat the Buddha... In fact, when the Buddha preached his atheistic philosophy... That's why he was termed a nāstika, a wasala. We do not believe in a god. We say panya, wisdom, and dharmuddha, is an incompatible...

Prabhupāda: At least, you follow the leadership of Buddha.

Buddhist Monk (1): Leadership, that's correct.

Prabhupāda: So that is, I am pointing out. Leadership,... God means "the leader." According to Vedic injunction, God means "the supreme leader." Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief living entity. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). God means the Supreme Leader. So leader you have to accept. That is the conception of God. Either you select Buddha or Lenin or somebody else, you have to accept one leader and follow. That is your business. So our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He's the Supreme Leader. And we are to obey His orders. This is our philosophy. So if you do not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, if you obey the orders of Lord Buddha, or somebody obeys the orders of Lenin, the principle is there that you have to follow the orders of somebody. Now, you select Lenin, Kṛṣṇa or Buddha or Gandhi or anyone. That is a different thing. But the principle—to accept one leader and follow his leadership—is there everywhere. That nobody can change. That is not possible. So the professor could not give me any satisfactory answer, you see. The leadership you have to accept. You cannot do anything independently. You have to accept. That is our constitutional position, that we have to follow somebody. Now you select whom you shall follow. If you are following the most perfect, then you become perfect. And if you are following less perfect or imperfect, then you are imperfect. This is our philosophy. You have to follow some leader. If your leader is perfect, then you are perfect. If your leader is not perfect, then you are also not perfect.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So, if big, big scholars say, when Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... (BG 18.65). The scholars say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." You see? If now, I can frankly say, if leaders like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi and others, they mislead people, then how the people will be in normal condition? This is the position of India at the present moment. The leaders... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The leaders are blind. They have no training. They are not in disciplic succession. They do not know what is what, and they are taking the part of leadership, then everything is spoiled. Jāti-dharma, kula-dharma. And they have created varṇa-saṅkara.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Now, I, when we were talking, I asked him one question, that "Professor Kotofsky, you are communist, I am Kṛṣṇite. So where is the difference of philosophy? Because you have to accept one authority, leader. So you have accepted Lenin as leader; we have accepted Kṛṣṇa as leader. So where is the difference on the principle?" So he could not answer. But he very much appreciated this, that "Where is the difference between these two principles." But now we have to consider whether the leadership of Lenin is good, or the leadership of Kṛṣṇa is good. That is another thing. But you have to accept one leader. You cannot do without leader. That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: I think, I think it will be good, though, if we flatter Mrs. Gandhi also, a little flattery.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Let her think that we are praising her leadership of the country.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes, flatter that "You can say that you'll be glorified when India will be glorified. So this culture will glorify India."

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "And Prabhupāda has introduced."

Śyāmasundara: It is now already...

Prabhupāda: "So you should cooperate with us."

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Sudāmā: I don't ever want to stop preaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Well, preaching, you cannot manufacture preaching. You must do preaching according to the principles ordered by your spiritual master. You cannot manufacture your own way of preaching. That is required. There must be some leader. Under the leadership. Yasya prasādād bhagavat... Why it is said? Everywhere, in the office, there is some immediate boss. So you have to please him. That is service.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, we have got experience. If there is a good man, he'll do, he'll act very nice. That we have got experience. Just like if a man is honest, you can trust him. This is our experience. So similarly, if the leaders be good according to this standard, then the whole human society will be happy. This is our propaganda. We are not after the post, but we have to disclose this rascaldom, that "All these rascals, animals, fools, they are taking the post of leader, and you are suffering repeatedly, but you have no sense that 'How we can be happy with this Nixon and company's leadership?' " So therefore we want to disclose the fact, that's all. We have no ambition. Just like we are brāhmaṇas. We have nothing to do, but according to Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas guides the kṣatriyas how to rule. So our position is to reform the politicians.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. In other words, to tell the public that "You should elect God-conscious leaders to have a better society."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda. "Don't drink." So if people give up drinking, automatically the drinking business will be closed.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: After all, they accept authority. Either the doctor or the television, is it not?

Yaśomatīnandana: Now they should accept Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They cannot say that they don't want authority. They cannot say. The authority is already there.

Karandhara: Well, the common people are crying for authority, leadership.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to teach them how to elect leader. These are the qualification of the leaders. He must not be sinful. Then he can be. (break) ...people will find in our camp.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Just like in the modern days, government, they have abolished monarchism, but still, why they elect a president? Why?

Prajāpati: Must be leadership.

Prabhupāda: Must be. That is the point. If you have abolished monarchy, then why you are electing another rascal to become a monarch? What is the answer? Why do you need it?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they need law and order.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there must be. In our organization... Just like in each temple we elect a president. Then we get GBC. Then above all, I am. So that is needed. It is not conventional. It is needed. Therefore above everything, there must be God. So if these people, they say, "There is no need of God, there is no use for Him," that means they are all rascals.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā there are so many. They'll purchase another rascal's Bhagavad-gītā. Simply you make propaganda that what is real leadership. Then they will inquire and we shall reply. (break) ...so many things. So we may not create any disruption amongst our solidarity. Then things will not make progress. In a big machine, even one screw is slack, the machine stops. You know that? So we should not commit such mistake. "Don't care. It is a small screw." No. Even that small screw can stop the whole machine. (break) ...that we are on the platform of deathlessness. Then we can be careful about falling down. And this is a fact.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Ātreya-ṛṣi: So in our Movement, the leaders must decide how every devotee and every resource is engaged properly.

Prabhupāda: That is leadership. That is leadership. The... Which man is fitted for which work.

Ātreya-ṛṣi: Yes. Utilization of all resources...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya-ṛṣi: ...including devotees and funds and everything.

Prabhupāda: Then... The first thing is that we should see that everyone is engaged. How he should be engaged, that requires leadership. But the first business is to engage everyone. Nobody should be without engagement. Then it will be idle worse, works... What do you call? Idle brain is devil's workshop. And the devil is kāminī-kāñcana, woman and money. This is devil.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) The same... Employment, even for the woman, the carakā. You see? Gandhi also studied this. There must be... Woman should be engaged for weaving. What is called?

Devotee: Spinning.

Prabhupāda: Spinning, yes. Everyone should be engaged. That is management. So all GBC members must see that in every temple, everyone is engaged.

Brahmānanda: That is the meaning of leadership.

Prabhupāda: That is the meaning of leadership.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Bhagavān: A leader must be very expert so that people would be happy in their engagement.

Prabhupāda: Everyone should be expert. The leaders must be expert and the worker must be expert so that they may follow the instruction of the leader. If the leader says something and the workers, "Hm, I shall consider it, later on," then how the leader will execute his leadership? Both of them should be cooperating and know that "We are all working for Kṛṣṇa." Somebody was coming back and going... Coming this side or... Our men? No.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Guest (5): How is it that there is so much moral degradation in our country?

Prabhupāda: Because you did not lead them, you did not teach them spiritual books. You allowed them to read Communist books.

Guest (5): Is it the failure of our spiritual leaders?

Prabhupāda: What is a spiritual leader? First of all we have to think..., if the businessman is not spiritual leader.

Guest (6): So you mean the lack of spiritual leadership has driven us to this state of affairs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because there have been so many. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, it is standard book. The so-called spiritual leaders, they give different interpretation. Why different interpretation? One interpretation is there. Anyone can understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is plain thing, Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "You become My devotee, you just worship Me, offer your obeisance." And Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa personally." What right he has got to say like that? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava. Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." This is going on.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Balavanta. He's also very nice. If we get some important votes in the government, then our mission will be successful. This, our philosophy is being properly ventilated, it is coming in the papers, isn't it? On account of this political leadership. And I see that his statements are published profusely. Not with other contemporaries. And what they'll speak? They have no sense, they have no leadership idea.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: It is my practical experience. Śyāmasundara had to waste at least two to three hours to secure rice, fruits. Only milk and butter could we get. And then we had to wait in the... They would not allow us to cook unless they had finished. This was the difficulty. Practically I have suffered. All their claims are bogus. The people are not happy there. The young men are not allowed to go outside the country. Just see. All freedom lost. All freedom lost. It is a government of terrorism, that's all. And whatever the Communists do, simply by terrorizing that's all. They have no gentleman's method. Terrorizing. (break) ...misleading other rascals that "You come this way; you will be happy." And the rascals are being misled. They are accepting. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man is asking other blind men, "Come on, I shall cross you the street." But because he is rascal, he does not ask, "Sir, you are also blind. how will you lead us?" They cannot inquire. Or he does not know that "This man is asking me, who is willing to take the leadership, he is also blind." This blind man does not know, do not know. They do not know. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So before she reaches twenty years, twenty times she must have taken contraceptive method. And that means her health is ruined. What she'll produce? They are given in the schools, colleges, contraceptive tablets. And they are prohibiting, "Don't get child before twenty years." What is this nonsense? This is the difficulty. All rascals, they have taken leadership. Women should, should be allowed to beget children as soon as they're able. But as soon as the pregnancy is there, there should not be any sex life. They have got sex life in pregnancy also. So many things, we have... We can guide them all, all these rascals. From śāstra, we can guide them. Therefore immediately human society, a class of men who are fully conversant with the Vedic conclusion required to guide these rascals, socially, politically, in every respect.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Tejas. No?

Nitāi: Śauryam,

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Prabhupāda: Next class, the vaiśyas. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: I left them on your bathroom door, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) Hmm. So this kind of leadership will not make any solution, if you do not know what is the real goal. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He doesn't agree if a man create or imagine a goal, he says, the real goal, the real things...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not imagination. That is another foolishness, to imagine a goal. If we imagine some goal, that is another rascaldom. We have to understand what is the goal of life from superior. Just like a child. He does not know what is the goal of life, but his parents know he must be educated. So goal has not to be imagined. Goal has to be understood from superior. So if the superior man is also blind, then he cannot lead other blind forward. If a blind man takes the position of superior, then he will lead these followers to the ditch only. That's all.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: As soon two, two men who are realized, there is no war. There is a very wonderful story. When the Emperor of Japan took over the leadership again after having been for six hundred years only the High Priest. Now he wanted to be again the emperor. And he was submitting one dainu (?) after the other one. Only one resisted in Tokyo. General of Tokyo did not submit to the emperor and didn't allow anybody to come in to negotiate. So the emperor was very troubled. He said, "Should I burn down Tokyo? I wouldn't like to do it." And then his young sword (?) master asked him—he was a realized man—"Do you permit me to just ride in this town and see the great general?" And he said, "Yes, you know the guards do not permit." "Let me do." He sat on horseback and just rode through. The guards, like this, let him pass. He announced himself to the great general. General said, "Yes, with him I am going to talk." And the general himself, being a self-realized man said, "Well, all right." In twenty minutes things were in order, and they submitted gently, and without a single shot, peace was established. Because two men of a high level of self-realization met.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is our point, that if we understand, every one of us realize that we are all servant of God or sons of God, that everything belongs to God, so we can use our father's property for our maintenance as much as we require, not more than that, so if we think like that, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and there will be no more war, everything peaceful.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, India's position is different now. India has practically no milk, and no food. Due to our leaders' mismanagement, there is no milk. India is depending on your milk powder sent by Australia or by Europe. There is no milk. But milk is very important because Kṛṣṇa said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Find out that verse. You do not have that Kṛṣṇa Book?

Cāru:

kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ

vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam

paricaryātmakaṁ karma

śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.44)

"Translation: Farming, cattle-raising and business are the qualities of work for the vaiśyas, and for the śūdras there is labor and service to others..."

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa... We are following the leadership of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was so fond of cows, cows' milk, cows' butter, that He was stealing cows' butter. Yes. Find out that picture.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: All questions are answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. You read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, and you will get all answer, all problems solved. Unfortunately, the so-called politicians and scholars, they misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā and ruin their career and misguide others. That is going on. All rascals are doing that. "This word means this," as if Kṛṣṇa left this word to be explained by a rascal. This is going on. He does not think of his position, that at any moment he will be kicked out of this platform of so-called leadership, so-called educated teacher, and he is commenting on the words of Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. He does not understand his position, that "What I am?"

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: Idi Amin? Uganda.

Amogha: There is a general in Africa who is very powerful, but he's demonic.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They should not be demonic. Other things are there. Śauryaṁ tejo...

Amogha: "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership..."

Prabhupāda: Generosity.

Guest 2: So he hasn't got generosity.

Guest 3: No, he's got another one, insanity. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Not insanity.

Guest 1: You can't substitute.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. He must be at the same time... Although he is hero, he must be generous. Just like Alexander the Great. Perhaps you know the story. He arrested one thief. So when he was arrested and he was being judged by Alexander, the thief pleaded that "What is the difference between you and me? You are a great thief. I am a small thief." (laughter) So Alexander understood it and got him released, "Yes." (laughter) This is generosity. He must agree to the principle.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: This is first-class man. And the second-class man?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaṣ ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Prabhupāda: That is second-class. And the third-class?

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Again I say I mean no disrespect, but in India, where the religious customs have been followed for centuries upon centuries, we are seeing a, not a return, but we are seeing a drawing away. We are seeing a drawing away from the spiritual world and the spiritual life in today's society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is due to bad leadership. Otherwise, Indian mass of people, they are fully conscious of God and they try to follow the laws of God, the mass of people. Here even the big, big professor, they do not believe in God, they do not believe in next life. But India, even the poorest man, he knows that "There is God. There is next life. If I commit sinful life I will suffer. If I live piously, then I shall enjoy." Even the low-grade society, social man, he believes it. Still if there is some disagreement, the village people go to the temple for settlement, and the opposite parties will hesitate to speak lies before the temple, still. So in that respect India is still 80 percent religious, 80 percent religious. That is the special privilege of taking birth in India. That is a fact.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Nitāi:

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Prabhupāda: This is second-class. And then third-class?

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Nitāi: Woman's brain is smaller than a man's brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. In the history there is no woman who is a big philosopher, a big mathematician, big scientist, big educationist. We don't find. They were all men.

Woman reporter: What about women who are leaders of countries such as your own country?

Prabhupāda: Well, according to Vedic conception woman is never offered leadership. But experience has shown that woman's leadership has not been successful.

Woman reporter: Do you think Mrs. Gandhi's leadership has not been successful?

Prabhupāda: Well, there is already trouble. There are many big, big men, they do not agree with her and she has taken emergency steps. So on the whole, the country is in trouble.

Woman reporter: What about Mrs. Meir, president of Israel?

Prabhupāda: I do not say of any particular woman, but according to Vedic civilization, we have never seen in the history that woman has become a leader.

Woman reporter: Women have been leaders.

Prabhupāda: They were not selected.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "For me with you. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called saṅkīrtana movement. Sometimes they call Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also if some vigorous activity is done for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the Indian people under your leadership, it will be very, very effective."

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. "Everyone should become a guru."

Brahmānanda: "His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully and it is becoming effective. I think in India also if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam..."

Prabhupāda: "Four hundred pages each."

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda (reading): "When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalitā Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting with me and you, and I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instructions in Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called the saṅkīrtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries such as Europe and America. By the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange." "Yours sincerely?"

Prabhupāda: "Yours sincerely" all right, or "Your well-wisher"?

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are displaying their cannon. They are displaying weapons.

Prabhupāda: That is their only asset. And when they are kicked out by the cannon of nature, they tolerate. That's all. They are showing their cannon, but ask them, "Can you defend yourself from the cannon of nature when he kicks out, 'Get out'?" You may be very big commander and captain or leader, but when death comes can you avoid it? Then what is your leadership? What will your cannon do? You kill nature by your cannon and live. That you cannot do. Then where is the value of your cannon? Eh? Why you are so much proud of showing your cannon? What you can do with this cannon?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: Tagore (?) is so nice that your divine grace was presenting the perfect authority, Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And one who follows His instruction, he also perfect. That we are pushing (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious, everything will be all right. Everyone is fallen, I asked this question to Kotofsky. "Sir, you have got a leader, we have got a leader, so where is the difference?" And then I said, "Only you have got a fool leader, we have got intelligent leader." Otherwise you cannot avoid leadership, authority. That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They all want to become leaders.

Prabhupāda: So what kind of leader? If you cannot lead others, what kind of leader?

Jayapatākā: That's why a brahmacārī should...

Prabhupāda: If you mislead them, if you mislead them, then what is the use of taking leadership?

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is seeing that, how everyone is ready to serve. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa-bhakta also sees how everyone is eager to serve Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...engage them rightly, that is leadership. Yes. Otherwise andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). As a blind leader is leading other blind men, this whole world is going on like that. They do not know how to properly lead the people.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Why they become sectarian?

Madhudviṣa: They will say this is the natural development. When a system develops to this size there will be...

Prabhupāda: That you cannot change, natural development. You rascal, why you become leader? I don't require your leadership if everything is going on by nature.

Madhudviṣa: No, it requires a guide.

Prabhupāda: No, because you are rascal, you are under nature. So how you can guide me? Your position is the same. You are blind; I am blind. How you can lead me?

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they are changing leaders one after another because they think that the present leader will satisfy their present desires more.

Prabhupāda: The leader, perfect leader, is God. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānāṁ (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That nitya and cetana, all living entities, we are eternal, and we are conscious. And He is the supreme conscious. Therefore God means Supreme Being. You take His leadership. Then He'll properly guide you. That is our philosophy.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The leader of mistake-therefore immediately gives evidence from śāstra. What is the use of quoting from the śāstra? "Just to prove that I am not mistaken, here is the proof."

Madhudviṣa: They would say that there is a way of life which is perfect, but all men are imperfect. There is a way of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore they... Because you are imperfect, therefore you have to accept the leadership of a perfect person.

Madhudviṣa: They will say no one is perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, that is the... That is your ignorance.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Very nice, a good news. You are eating nicely. That gives me pleasure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everybody is so satisfied. This... What is it? Shantilal is just a wonderful cook.

Prabhupāda: So just give him the leadership of cooking everywhere. When the prasāda is supplied?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At one o'clock.

Prabhupāda: So you can send me at half past one?

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest: One of the principles upon which I have lived is a question of involvement with the people around me in trying to do things better than they have been done before.

Prabhupāda: But you must know first of all what is the aim of life and what is better. That we must know. So that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that we are not interested in God; then whole thing is spoiled. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). We are not interested in God. We want to be happy by adjusting the external energy of God. That is blind leadership. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. This will never be successful, and it is blind leadership because we do not know what is the aim. If you know the aim of life and if we make program according to that aim, then it will be successful. Blindly everyone is manufacturing his objective, different leaders, different isms. The Communists, they have got different aims. The capitalists, they have got different aims. The socialists, they have got different aims.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Mother means who creates my body, who gives me feeding in the beginning, gives me strength. That is mother. How you can understand mother otherwise? So mother is there, earth. Dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī. Pṛthvī is mother. And practically we see. She is giving, the mother earth is giving birth to so many varieties of children-8,400,000. Then the next inquiry should be: the mother is there, the children are there, then where is the father? That answer is given by Kṛṣṇa: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am the father." So where is the difficulty to understand the Supreme Lord? But they are so dull-headed that they have no even common sense, and they're passing as philosopher, politician, and scientist, big leader, big rascal. This is going on. This is going on. And big, big rascals, they have taken the leadership of the world, and the world is in chaos, chaotic condition, everyone is unhappy, suffering.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: Very good, very good, I believe all that. Every word. The people need leadership, inspiration that they can follow with their whole heart.

Prabhupāda: There must be practice, that we are teaching. That simply not theoretical, but practical. Here in our institute, we teach all the students practically how to become God conscious. Theoretical knowledge will not help us. There must be practical behavior. They are rising early in the morning, attending maṅgala-ārati, then having class, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, chanting, in this way, twenty-four hours engaged. It is not fifteen minutes recreation. No. Twenty-four hours program.

George Gullen: I think this is good for the world. I think the world needs it very much so.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Kern: So this is a development. Saint Ignatius did the same, somewhat. When he began, he sought the leadership. And he sought the intelligent, so that they might do what.... Obviously, you do it also, seeking the leadership that can then teach. We call it sometimes elitism, and this is perhaps a good word for it.

Prabhupāda: So you find out the verse, satyaḥ śamo damas titikṣā, the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Here, it is meant, the first class, second class, third class, fourth class. Yes.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: The second-class man is also described, who is the second class.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas," or the administrators.

Prabhupāda: This is second class. They are not first class, they are second class. First class is above mentioned.

Scheverman: The brāhmaṇa.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: Well I would be very interested, as the man who lives across the street right over here, pastor of St. Mark's parish, in talking with your local leadership and discussing whatever programs you are interested in working in this particular community. And I think perhaps...

Prabhupāda: No community—everyone is welcome.

Scheverman: Well, there are ways in which we might work together and cooperate.

Prabhupāda: Just like a school. A school is open for everyone. Whoever wants to take up education, he can come.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Don't you find the whole Kṛṣṇa movement more successful in an age and era when there is such laxity of moral standards and spiritual leadership and direction?

Prabhupāda: No, at any stage of life, if one accepts the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he can make advance.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: It is stated in the Bhāgavatam that once in every structure of the universe, every living entity gets the opportunity to have guru and Kṛṣṇa and very, very nice situation. He gets that opportunity.

Prabhupāda: That I am speaking, that this is the only chance of Kṛṣṇa, guru, and if he neglects this chance, then tanwan sthito hi ga(?). What is the loss more than that? We are simply calculating loss and gain. Just imagine what is the loss by misusing this human form of body. If you want to spoil this life under the influence of misleaders, you can do it. But if you prefer to take the sense of following leadership of Kṛṣṇa, then our life... Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That comes mām ekam, ekam—then your life is successful. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "I'll give you protection in all respects." So if we don't take this opportunity, then we are cutting our own throat. Do it, you can do it. Who can save you?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri (reading):

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Prabhupāda: This is kṣatriya. Now, who is kṣatriya? A fourth-class man, he never seen battlefield and by vote he becomes president. And here kṣatriya means yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. If there is fight he must come forward first of all. He is in his palace, and he's engaging common men, "Go and fight." When there was Battle of Kurukṣetra Arjuna and Duryodhana, they came first. Because the battle was decided as soon as the leader is dead. No more fight. So they used to come first. This is kṣatriya. Where is that kṣatriya? And they are becoming politicians simply by votes, all third-class, fourth-class men.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. (Hindi) Śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). (Hindi) Nobody's... (Hindi)

Guest (1): No, the other day I was with Natalia in Japan, and he also said the same thing, that we have no training for the leaders. And because there is no proper leadership, everything comes to a zero. You have to train a man or a woman for a particular work. That is not being done in India.

Guest (2): British did it.

Guest (1): They made their servants quite all right.

Prabhupāda: They wanted for graft, to manipulate their empire. They wanted some subordinate hands. They never wanted to give real education.

Guest (2): That's true.

Prabhupāda: They wanted that the... That is cooperation. That is one of the Gandhi's understanding, that "These people are ruling over us by our cooperation. Therefore let us noncooperate and they'll fail. They'll not be able to rule."

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): Eventually they will come around, but it will take time.

Prabhupāda: No, the leaders are not... Because their position will be finished, the so-called leaders. They want to keep in ignorance the mass of people so their foolish leadership may go on continually. That is everywhere. (break) ...learn this philosophy and preach. That is the best service.

Guest (2): My son who lives in America is very Westernized, and as he picked up Gītā, and he tried to understand it. Now he now is so much a follower of Gītā that every single letter he quotes Gītā to anyone whom he writes.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also answered in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by very strong word. Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). If the public is like dogs, camels, hogs, and asses, so what is the value of their election? He'll elect another big dog or camel. So there is chaos.

Mr. Tombe: Then how to throw out good leadership?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Good leadership means you must learn how to lead people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the śreṣṭha, the leader is ideal, then others will follow. But if the leader is not ideal, if he is not in the awareness of things, then people will be misguided.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Mr. Tombe: So how can we chalk out a program of, say, training of leaders from the villages...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to take lessons from the biggest leader, Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). He's the leader of the demigods also. We have to take lesson from... That lesson is there, Bhagavad-gītā. But we do not take it. We manufacture our leadership. That is the defect. What Kṛṣṇa said... Everyone is proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā, but the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is their... All these. What can I say? These misleaders, they are doing that. Leadership is already there. Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is learning from Kṛṣṇa. So if you learn from Kṛṣṇa you become perfect leader.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Something adulteration. Adulterated things are not good. Pure thing, that is good. Why do they not accept? Let us discuss something. Why these people interpret? What is the reason to spoil it?

Indian lady: To gain the leadership?

Prabhupāda: But with that leadership, if you cheat others, does it mean leadership?

Indian lady: Or importance. Or the ego which they, "I have got so many followers. Whether I'm wrong or right, everyone thinks I'm right."

Prabhupāda: So what is the meaning of these followers who are all... What is called? Just like sometimes the... What is called? You take so many lambs, what is that called?

Devotee: Shepherd?

Prabhupāda: Shepherd. Yes. The shepherd has many followers. But does it mean any meaning?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The same thing: Electricity. The copper is not electricity, but when it is charged with electricity, if it is touched, that is electricity. And, similarly, this paramparā system, the electricity is going. If you cut the paramparā system, then there is no electricity. Therefore it is stressed so much. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. The electricity is lost. These people, they do not know. Now at the fag end of life, they are thinking, if intelligent person, that "What I have done actually?" If one has sense, he should come to this understanding. By cutting some, what is that? Dead trees? The civil disobedience began by cutting dead trees. Is it not? Vinoda Bhave, he began his leadership forty years ago by cutting... Gandhi also, civil disobedience. So this kind of leadership might have been little enthusiasm for the time being, but actually what people gain by that, such leadership?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who is bringing prasāda? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Everything is there. Read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. Don't misinterpret. That has killed our culture. They do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, and they stand: "I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. Even recently I had been in Gandhi's aśrama. It is a desert. He was student of Bhagavad-gītā. Yes. Vinobhaji also never teaches Kṛṣṇa, but he's a Gītā-pravacana. What Gītā-pravacana without Kṛṣṇa? Everyone is doing that, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. What is that Bhagavad-gītā?

Guest (2): A glass without water.

Prabhupāda: If big, big men do like that, then what the followers will do? Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). This is the position of our country, that everyone has misguided in the name of leadership, and people are in bewilderment—"What to do?"

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be appreciated by any man because it's very simple.

Prabhupāda: Simple and it is natural also.

Hari-śauri: The desire for good leadership is there, so if we present good leaders, then they'll naturally take.

Prabhupāda: Our leaders must be very good.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But if you follow... Then leader is a wrong person. You cannot follow. You must follow the right leader.

Hari-śauri: One cannot say that he does not believe in the power of the state.

Prabhupāda: Then that is not leadership. That is misleader. These are very intelligent questions, nice. King means he has to see that the citizens are doing nicely, and that is king's duty.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "There are no authentic answers to these questions."

Prabhupāda: There is. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Read Bhagavad-gītā. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Here is authentic answer. Why he's giving that...? That means you are not in proper leadership. If you... Just explain that if you infect cholera disease, germ, you must suffer. That is nature's law. Similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Now you can change the kāraṇa, the cause. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). And you can neutralize it. Māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ. Quote this. Everything is there in Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is our flower? Hm? Get all round, flower, the first land vacant. You should plant them. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca.

Upendra: Paramparā mālās. There's five mālās here for the paramparā.

Prabhupāda: First of all hear. Then tomorrow they... Kṛṣṇa is helping. He'll help more, more. We are not going to be misled by their leadership

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṣatriya?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

Prabhupāda: Hm? Śauryam...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Śauryam-heroism; tejaḥ-power; dhṛtiḥ-determination; dākṣyam-resourcefulness; yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam—that he does not flee in the battlefield; dānam-generosity; īśvara-leadership." Those are the qualities.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "...after you, who will take the leadership?" And "Everyone will take, all my disciples. If you want, you can take also. (laughter) But if you follow. They are prepared to sacrifice everything, so they'll take the leadership. I may, one, go away, but there will be hundreds, and they'll preach. If you want, you can also become a leader. We have no such thing, that 'Here is leader.' Anyone who follows the previous leadership, he's a leader. 'Indian,' we have no such distinction, 'Indian,' 'European.' "

Brahmānanda: They wanted an Indian to be the leader?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) "Everyone, all my disciples, they are leaders. As purely as they follow, they become leader. If you want to follow, you can become a leader. You are Indian. But you don't want." I told them that.