Prabhupāda: Yes, he is speaking. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te: "I give him intelligence by which he can always live with Me," upayānti. He is living along with... Every living entity is living with God. But out of his ignorance, he does not know. So what for the other bird is there? What He is doing? And He is living as witness. He is friend, that "What this nonsense is doing? He will suffer." So He is finding out the opportunity how he will take instruction from the other bird, God. And He gives instruction. But to whom? When he surrenders, and he is engaged in this service, then He gives him instruction. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi (BG 10.10). He gives. God is giving intelligence to everyone, but the nondevotee, he is not surrendered; he will not accept. The same example, when the thief goes to steal, God gives him that "Don't do this. You will suffer," and he knows that, that God says, He is speaking that "Don't do this," but still he does. So he suffers. But if he can purify and acts according to the instruction of God, then he is perfect. That is the difference between demon and devotee. Devotee strictly follows the order of God; he is happy. And demon, he also knows what is God's desire; he disobeys, he acts according to his whim, he suffers. So God is giving instruction. There is no doubt about it. Externally He is giving instructions through His agent, spiritual master, through books; and internally as consciousness, conscience. He is giving, always, but the rascal will not accept. Then he must suffer. What can be done?
Hayagrīva: Pascal believed in the doctrine of original sin. That doctrine holds that at one time man fell from grace by committing some sin or other, and that fall from grace accounts for his present position between the demigods and the beasts. In other words, that original sin accounts for man's engagement, or encagement, in matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is our...
Hayagrīva: What was this original sin?
Prabhupāda: To disobey the order of Kṛṣṇa, or not to serve Kṛṣṇa. Just like some servant, he tries that "Why I am serving this master? Why not become a master." The, sometimes psychologically it comes. A man is working in the office, he is seeing the managing director is sitting and is taking all the money, and sometimes the worker... Just like a capitalist and the worker. Why it is Communist movement? That they are thinking that "We are working, and the capitalist is taking the money." So they revolt, they make strike, and they form a society that "We have the..., we must have this money." That is communism. So similarly, when the living entity—he is eternally part and parcel of God; to serve God, that is his real position—but when he thinks that "Why I shall serve God? I shall enjoy myself," that is the beginning of falldown. So what is your question? When the... This was your question, that "When the sinful life begins?"
Hayagrīva: Oh, what was, what was this original sin?
Prabhupāda: This is the original sin. When he thought of not to serve God but to become God, that is the original. Just like the Māyāvādīs, they have knowledge, they have philosophy, everything, but still trying to become God, which is impossible. Then there is no meaning of God. If simply by meditation and by some material efforts one can become God, then where is the use of God? You cannot become God. But artificially you can try to become God, and that artificial way of becoming God is the beginning of sinful life.
Hayagrīva: He believed that it is impossible..., it is impossible for man to understand the universe or his position in the universe. In the material world we cannot look for certainty or stability because our reasoning powers, our reason, is always being deceived. Consequently, man must surrender to the dictates of his heart and to God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our position. We, we are teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that you act according to the instruction given by Kṛṣṇa. We are not depending on heart, because a heart, the dictation is coming, but it is not appreciated by the demons, nondevotee. Therefore direct, direct instruction is the Bhagavad-gītā, and it is explained by His devotee. So in this way, if we take right from God and His representative. Not that (indistinct). So therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching or preaching God consciousness so that people may take instruction of this Bhagavad-gītā as it is and act accordingly and be happy. That is our program. We do not manufacture any ideas. The ideas are already there. Simply we are preaching. If one is intelligent, fortunate, he will take it and be happy.
Hayagrīva: Of all things in the world, Pascal considered this to be the strangest. He says, "A man spends many days and nights in rage and despair over the loss of his job or for some imaginary insult to his honor, yet he does not consider with anxiety and emotion that he will lose everything by death. It is a monstrous thing to see in the same heart and at the same time this sensibility to trifles and this strange insensibility to the greatest objects—death. It is an incomprehensible enchantment and a supernatural slumber, which indicates as its cause an all-powerful force," such as māyā.
Prabhupāda: This is, this is instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, that one who does not believe in God or disobeys the orders of God, a day will come when God will come as death, and his all power, all false prestige, all imagination, all plans will be all broken. Then after that, according to the transmigration of the soul, that person, because he did not obey the orders of God, he acted like animals, he gets the body of an animal. This is transmigration. And he suffers.