Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the original status of the living entity. Just like a son is conscious always that "I am the son of such and such person." This consciousness is natural. So living entities, when they come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Because we are all parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa. It cannot be broken. A person may go mad. But when he's cured, he immediately understands that "I belong to such and such family, such and such gentleman's son." That is natural. Similarly in the contact of this material nature, the spiritual spark, living entity, he's in madness. You are a psychiatrist. You know very well. Every man is more or less a madman.
Dr. Hauser: Or he has the germ within himself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We say in a Bengali poetry:
- piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
- māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya
Anyone who is infected with this material energy, he is just like a man, ghostly haunted. You have any experience of ghostly haunted men? A ghost captures him.
Dr. Hauser: Ghostly haunted?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: Possessed.
Dr. Hauser: Oh yes. But that's very often a symptom of a, of a psychosis that they feel that they are persecuted by, by foreign powers or by...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Foreign powers, yes. So this is called ghostly haunted. So our material conception of life, this is also ghostly haunted, madness. "I am Christian. I am Hindu. I am Muslim. I am Englishman. I am German." These are all conception of ghostly haunted. Because spirit soul is pure. In the Vedic language it is said: asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The spirit soul has no connection with such designations. Just like in dream we see so many things. But it has nothing to do with me. So this is night dream. At night, we forget all these things about the day dream. "I am this, I am that. I am this family-member. I am his father. I am his husband." And so on, so on. At night, when dream, are in a different situation. And we forget everything. And again, in daytime, we forget everything of the night dream. We come another dream. So this is also dream. That is also dream. I am simply observing. In daytime I am seeing some dream, gross dream, and at nighttime I'm seeing some subtle dream. But seer, I am. Under different condition, I am seeing different things. I think you treats this madness. He's sees things in different way, in different positions.
Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Yes.
Prabhupāda: So everyone is mad. Anyone who is in material contact, he is mad. So we are trying to take him out of this dreaming condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Hauser: But does he stop dreaming? I mean, substantially, does he stop, stop, does one stop dreaming?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Stop means... Because dreaming means that is not my actual occupation. Dreaming means that. I am separate from the dreaming condition. So if one stops this dreaming condition, then he's cured.
Dr. Hauser: But the dreaming of the night also has another function, according to my...
Prabhupāda: No. Dreaming at night, dreaming at day. The same thing. The pattern is different. Pattern is different. If you think that you are Englishman, you are Swedish, or if you are Hindu, you are Muslim, that is also dream. You are none of this. As much as you are none of those dreaming things at night. But due to our madness, sometimes we take: "This is fact," sometimes we take: "That is fact." But none of them are facts. Under different condition, we accept them as facts. But none of them are facts. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness means: sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one becomes freed from all designations. Upādhi. Upādhi means designation. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Completely free from all designation. Just like in dream I think I have become now king. I am the proprietor of a factory. But none of them. It is only dream. Similarly, in day dream I am thinking I am the father of this family, I am the mother of this family, I am this, I am that. That is all dreaming. So one has to become free from this dreaming condition. That is called sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170), liberated from all kinds of false designation. Designation... Designation means false...
Dr. Hauser: But some of these false, false designations also are the machinery of a society.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also false.
Dr. Hauser: Although they're false, but they, they sort of drive the society on.
Haṁsadūta: Although, although these designations are false, they are driving on a whole society.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: The whole society's driving on so many...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we call it is illusion, māyā. Just like I showed you.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, the reflection.
Prabhupāda: Reflection. I, in morning walk, the sun was reflected in a glass exactly it is brilliant as sun. So I showed him: "This is called māyā, illusion. There is no sun, but it appears like sun. Exactly. And it is illuminating also." Reflection of the moon. So one who is less intelligent, he'll see: "Oh, here is a sun, another sun." So he's a madman. One who sees the sun reflection in the glass as sun, he's illusioned. He's mad. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also psychiatrist movement.
Dr. Hauser: Is that a...?
Haṁsadūta: Psychiatric.
Paramahaṁsa: Psychiatric movement.
Dr. Hauser: Oh, yes, yes. In a way... I... Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. We are taking away a person from the illusionary stage to the real stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.