Justice (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"Justice" |"Justices"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: So he has written that din ka dakini. In the daytime she is just like what is called, witches. Witch? Witch?

Brahmānanda: Witch, yes.

Prabhupāda: Ḍākinī. And rat ka bhāginī. At night she is tigress.

Devotee: She's what?

Brahmānanda: Tigress.

Prabhupāda: Tigress. At daytime she is witches. Witch or witches?

Brahmānanda: Witch.

Prabhupāda: Witch. And at night she is tigress. So that is the nature of woman. But the world is so made that everyone is keeping such tigress. (laughs heartily) Din ka ḍākinī rat ka bhāginī. (Hindi) Every moment she is sucking blood. She is such a dangerous tigress. Every moment sucking blood. But (Hindi) the people, the world, people of the world has gone so crazy that each one is keeping one tigress. (laughs)

Brahmānanda: Right in the home.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Tulasī dāsa's remark. So in many passages of his poetry he has not done very justice to woman.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): Central point of happiness is there now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, your point is happiness; my point is happiness. That is all right. But what is that happiness? Just like the same example can be that two litigants, they have gone to the court. Their aim is justice. But how that justice can be had, that is an argument and on the point of law. Similarly, everyone's point is happiness. And what is that standard of happiness, that you have to take from some authority. That authority we accept, Kṛṣṇa. And if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then we cannot come to the conclusion what is happiness. So you will simply waste our time. Begin ārati. (break) You see? It was... Sometimes the light was coming, sometimes... That means they were adjusting. There was some meeting, adjusting. As soon as it is coming to the real point it was light. And as soon as not in the real point there is no light. So it is a science. Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijñānam It is a vijñāna. It is not a theoretical, whimsical...

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, your point is happiness; my point is happiness. That is all right. But what is that happiness? Just like the same example can be that two litigants, they have gone to the court. Their aim is justice. But how that justice can be had, that is an argument and on the point of law. Similarly, everyone's point is happiness. And what is that standard of happiness, that you have to take from some authority. That authority we accept, Kṛṣṇa. And if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then we cannot come to the conclusion what is happiness. So you will simply waste our time. Begin ārati. (break) You see? It was... Sometimes the light was coming, sometimes... That means they were adjusting. There was some meeting, adjusting. As soon as it is coming to the real point it was light. And as soon as not in the real point there is no light. So it is a science. Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijñānam It is a vijñāna. It is not a theoretical, whimsical.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): People say about Uraya Karan Singh...

Prabhupāda: Karan Singh?

Guest (1): ...of Kashmir, he's a very pious man, and because rich birth and he is a pious as well, is it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Very religious and...

Prabhupāda: No, I have seen him. He's religious temperament. Not very. He loves Kṛṣṇa. No, he's a good man.

Guest (1): That's a good example, example like that.

Guest (1): Likes the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he's a good man. He's good scholar also, educated.

Guest (1): He was coming but I don't know why he has not come due to this...? This last year hearing Bhāgavatam discourses he accepted he would come come. We got his letter also.

Prabhupāda: This is due to government post.

Guest (1): And he also accepted an invitation, we invited him, He said he'd also come, but this Pakistan war started.

Prabhupāda: Still there are so many respectable person came. The governor came, the high-court justices and that, the Canadian ambassador came. Many men came. And he was very humble. He sat down below.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Need of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is need, absolute need.

Prajāpati: And need to trust in God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Exactly like that. A child needs parents and absolute surrender to parents. That is natural.

Prajāpati: He needs parents to be born at all, he need parents that he can rely on.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that he may grow. That Upendra's wife and child. The child is so restless, not for a single moment. And the mother has to take care, "No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no." She requires a mother to take care.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the child is automatically taken care of by the parents.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but he does not know. Child is foolish. He does not know. Similarly, everything is taken care of by God. He is supplying food, He is supplying seasons, He is supplying lights, everything I require. But we are so rascals, we are denying Him. You see?

Karandhara: Well, they say there are discrepancies in that supply. Some people starve to death and freeze to death.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not discrepancy. Just like a mother, when the child is diseased, "Ah, don't take. You cannot take. You must starve." If he thinks it is discrepancy, that is his foolishness. That is foolishness.

Karandhara: Well, just like if a big tornado comes and kills a thousand people...

Prabhupāda: Yes, because on account of their sins. Because they do not know. Why government hangs one person? Is there government discrepancy? When government says, the judge says, "This man must be hanged," is it discrepancy? It is justice.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): (Hindi) ...he owes me money and I couldn't get my money back from him.

Prabhupāda: If you have no money, then you cannot get justice, because he's claiming it is right claim, but if he had no fifteen thousand, then he could not claim it. Fifteen thousand is there, then (indistinct), so on , so on. So anyone who has no money, he cannot get justice in Kali-yuga. (Hindi)

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Rajasthan. So the government is so rogue that hungry men they have come and we are firing. And the... Your sva-rāja was obtained by nonviolence. This is the result. Actually, you cannot expect any justice from this government.

Guest: One has to snatch the justice from them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anardhena nyāya-rahitam: "If you have no money, then you'll never get justice." Dalmia, he was imprisoned for two years.

Dr. Patel: He was never in the jail. I know.

Prabhupāda: He was in the Delhi Hospital. (break) I am speaking so loudly real thing. Here you cannot. Immediately you'll be in the black book. (break)

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: The International Labor Organization has as one of its major aims to promote social justice, and that means that every class of worker, if you like to accept the four categories that you mentioned—the intellectual, the productive, the protective, and the laboring classes-should each have their proper place in society, should each have a full measure of human dignity, and should each have a proper share in the rewards for labor, both clearly material rewards and honors and dignity and leisure and time for, free time for meditation and so on. In the International Labor Organization, we are not like UNESCO devoted to the more philosophical and cultural and educational aspects for the intelligentsia, but I would draw your attention to the fact that the UNESCO is very much concerned with looking after the head part of society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Now, this question... Listen. Our Bhagavān says that he has no problem. We have no problem. And you have got all problems. So who is better? Who is better?

Bhagavān: And anyone who joins us loses all his problems. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says then that's very serious because if you have no problems, that means you are trying to escape from the world because the world is full of problems.

Prabhupāda: We are in the Paris City. How we have escaped from the world? (laughter) We have got branches in London, in Paris in New York and big, big cities, and all these boys are coming from big, big cities. How they have escaped? It is not justice. If he says that "They have escaped," that is wrong statement. We are not escaping anything. (French)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: There's a saying that everyone and everything has its price.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Paramahaṁsa: It means that if you pay enough money, you can get anything, or you can get somebody to do anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The justice, they are taking bribe, giving judgment.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, yes. Policemen. Also the politicians in America, sometimes they win their elections by giving bribes.

Prabhupāda: To the voters.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1975, Honolulu:

Upendra: That is if they have money, Prabhupāda. The poor man he suffers more.

Prabhupāda: Anardhena naya-rahitam.. This is stated in Bhāgavatam: "If you have no money, then you won't get justice." You can purchase justice. This is Kali-yuga. Anardhena naya-rahitam. (break) What people mean by religion? (break) ...not serious. Nobody is serious about religion. So what do they think about religion?

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...the talk amongst the high-court judges. So when there was fierce fighting was going on between the Germans and the Allies, so during their relaxed hours, the judges were sitting. So one, the Chief Justice of Calcutta, he asked one Justice Mukherjee. So Justice Mukherjee was very... He was vice-chancellor. So he asked him, "Mr. Mukherjee, now the Germans are coming. What you will do when they come?" He said, "Yes, as soon as they come, we shall: 'Come on sir, come on sir, come on sir.' We shall receive them." "Why?" "Now, you have taught us like that. You British people, you have taught us. (laughter) Our business is to receive. Anyone comes, we shall receive him. That's all."

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The word "Hindu" doesn't appear in the Vedas anywhere.

Acyutānanda: Then why do you use in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness the Hindu caste marks, Hindus caste marks and tilakas? This is all Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: No, this is not Hinduism. Appears like Hindu. Just like you appear like an Indian sannyāsī, but you are not Indian.

Acyutānanda: The judge is wearing a white wig and a British suit. He's not British either.

Prabhupāda: No, we are clearly stating Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Harikeśa: Yes, but Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu god.

Prabhupāda: That is your definition. Kṛṣṇa doesn't say.

Harikeśa: But my definition counts 'cause I'm in charge.

Prabhupāda: You can do any nonsense. That is.... Therefore you have to be taken to the court, that "How you can..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they are the court.

Prabhupāda: "...talk like nonsense and do like nonsense? Then anyone can do any nonsense thing? Then who will control you?"

Harikeśa: That's the point.

Mahāṁsa: The chief justice himself was saying like that in Madras. Their opinion will come in their favor.

Prabhupāda: No, they can give opinion, but there is supreme court. There is international court. We shall go...

Mahāṁsa: International court?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's only for disputes between countries, international court.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is country—"We are American. They are forcing us to become a Hindu." This is between country. You have to tackle with intelligence.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: Like in Russia, they projected they would grow so much grains...

Prabhupāda: Nature will punish them. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature is Lord's (indistinct) maintainer, he's observing, factually. (indistinct)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Excuse me. Just like, say, America takes up this idea, that God is the Supreme Father and...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say (indistinct) God in trust.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We trust. Justice. Don't trust blindly. Try to understand what is God. That I am... Later on, I have not received any reply.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He, American people (indistinct) say, "In God we trust." That's very nice, but why you take this philosophy blindly? Find out who is God and why you should trust. That is intelligence. The slogan is nice, why don't you fight on this issue? The Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement. You can fight on this issue. Intelligently, if we'll put (indistinct). We trust in God, but what is God? Eh? Hayagrīva? They like to trust in God. Then ask them what is God. They cannot reply.

Hayagrīva: They would say the Christian conception of God.

Prabhupāda: Any conception, God is not Christian, not Hindu, not...

Hayagrīva: They would say, "God is the Almighty Power."

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, suppose I stand for presidency, and I take money from bank and bribe and get vote.

Rāmeśvara: So they can actually create, by their control, a depression.

Prabhupāda: Yes, money can buy. The real thing is money. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Money is the criterion in the Kali-yuga. If you have got money, then you don't require anything; you can purchase anything.

Rāmeśvara: Purchase justice.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, anything. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. So therefore people are trying to get money somehow or other. Then he knows, "I get all power." The present struggle is everyone is trying to get more, more, more, more money. Because everyone knows if I get money then I.... (static) Just like the Beatles and others. Actually what they have got qualification? They have got money. (static) That's all. What qualification? Singer. Singer, according to Vedic culture, third-class, fourth-class man.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Find out this verse.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: If you have money, then you are aristocratic, then whatever you do, it is all right. Janmācāra, then?

Pradyumna: Guṇa.

Prabhupāda: Guṇa. You are most qualified man. You may be a drunkard, you may be a prostitute hunter, whatever you may be, but because of money you are a qualified man. Then?

Pradyumna: Janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Go on.

Pradyumna: Dharma-nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi.

Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. Now if you want justice, you can get it according to your desire, justice, if you have got money. That is going on. That if you bribe to the court's men and even to the judge or magistrate, you get justice accordingly. That is going on. Dharma ācāra.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Liṅgam means the external feature. This is the dress of a sannyāsī, this is the dress of a gṛhastha. Just like daṇḍa. Daṇḍa is the symptom that he is a sannyāsī. Then?

Pradyumna: Liṅgam evāśrama-khyātāv anyonyāpatti-kāraṇam.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Then?

Pradyumna: Avṛttyā nyāya-daurbalyam.

Prabhupāda: Avṛttyā nyāya-daurbalyam. If you have no money, then you cannot get justice. First of all you have to pay government so many percentage of money. Suppose somebody owes to you some money and he's not giving you. So if you have to go to the court, first of all you have to spend so much money, and if you have no money, then you cannot get your money back. You have to pay this lawyer's fee, the stand duty, and so on, so on. But if you say "I have no money," then forget justice. That's all. Avṛttyā nyāya-daurbalyam.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna:

vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ

janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ

dharma-nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ

kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi

Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. In India we have seen that you bribe the brāhmaṇas and they'll give decision in your favor. And it is experienced by everyone. In the law court you bribe even the high-court judge, he'll give judgement in your... That is proven. One big judge... Not now, at least fifty years ago or more than that. His business was to take bribe, high-court judge, very learned judge. He was asked. He'll give judgement if you give him ten thousand rupees. So other brother high-court judges, they knew it, so in one case he was just arranging for this and the chief justice called him, that "You immediately resign and go home, otherwise this arrangement you have made, it will be exposed." So he had no other alternative, he immediately resigned, and on some plea like, "My heart is palpitating," so in this way he left the court and then he was never allowed again. And when his friends asked him that why you are doing this? He said, "What can I do? I have got at least ten thousand rupees expenditure per month and I get only four thousand." That was his... He was very able lawyer. By private practice he was earning more, but this practice... And nowadays it has come to, at least in India, anywhere you go, and bribe and you get a favorable decision.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Terry: I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes an atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. Is there some way that, the question is, what is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this prevailing, this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?

Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param

(BG 18.54)

Unless we come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of justice, morality, peace. It is not possible. They may attempt in different ways, by their mental speculative process, but actually it will never come to be true. They are all trying: the scientists, philosophers, politicians, religionists, to make some adjustment, but that is not possible. We must understand the material platform. It is threefold miserable conditions. Just like we are trying to avoid some miserable condition, very insignificant—to get out of the disturbance created by the mosquitoes and the flies. We are trying our best, but still they are disturbing. Is it not? Still they find out some loopholes and go in to the room and disturb you. So you cannot avoid. Similarly, the disturbances of nature: the severe cold, scorching heat, how you can counteract it? Is it possible? Not possible. Adhyātmic, you may keep your body quite fit to your best knowledge, bit still there will be some trouble, sometimes coughing, sometimes mental equilibrium is lost, you don't feel nice. So these things will go on. Because we have got this material body, the material conditions must work. You cannot make any adjustments. That's not possible. (If) you have come to the spiritual platform independent of this material body, then there will be everything solved. On every surface (?). They can waste their time for making an adjustment, but that is not possible. I have given some example, that everyone is trying to become free from the material disturbances, but it is not possible. Nobody is free from material disturbance. That is not possible. So if you actually want freedom from material disturbances, you have to come to the spiritual platform and cultivate spiritual knowledge and be fixed up. Then your life is successful.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Unless we come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of justice, morality, peace. It is not possible. They may attempt in different ways, by their mental speculative process, but actually it will never come to be true. They are all trying: the scientists, philosophers, politicians, religionists, to make some adjustment, but that is not possible. We must understand the material platform. It is threefold miserable conditions. Just like we are trying to avoid some miserable condition, very insignificant—to get out of the disturbance created by the mosquitoes and the flies. We are trying our best, but still they are disturbing. Is it not? Still they find out some loopholes and go in to the room and disturb you. So you cannot avoid. Similarly, the disturbances of nature: the severe cold, scorching heat, how you can counteract it? Is it possible? Not possible. Adhyātmic, you may keep your body quite fit to your best knowledge, bit still there will be some trouble, sometimes coughing, sometimes mental equilibrium is lost, you don't feel nice. So these things will go on. Because we have got this material body, the material conditions must work. You cannot make any adjustments. That's not possible. (If) you have come to the spiritual platform independent of this material body, then there will be everything solved. On every surface (?). They can waste their time for making an adjustment, but that is not possible. I have given some example, that everyone is trying to become free from the material disturbances, but it is not possible. Nobody is free from material disturbance.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Devotee (2): Destiny means there is a controller.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but they cannot explain what is this controller; therefore they disbelieve. Just like yesterday we were discussing that atheist class, that they are by chance there was lusty desires and there was pregnancy and there will be child. So we say, "No. Daiva-netreṇa. These things have been arranged by superior authorities." This is destiny, that what is already arranged by superior authority, that is destiny. You cannot change it. A man is ordered to be hanged by court justice, you cannot change. He is to be hanged. And they will say, "By chance he will be hanged."

Jñānagamya: Sometimes something happens to interfere with that. He gets a reprieve from the governor, or the rope breaks, and they only hang him once.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but first thing is that if one is ordered to be hanged, he has to be hanged. Destined. But these people, they do not see who has ordered because they do not accept authority. They will say, "It is by chance." They have not seen who has ordered, who is that authority. They cannot explain; therefore they say "Chance."

Jñānagamya: They have no science of astrology, so they cannot understand the universe and how it's working.

Prabhupāda: Astrology... I don't think they believe in astrology. There is no question of astrology. We practically we see that one man ordered to be hanged by the justice, he has to be hanged. That is destiny. One has not seen who has ordered, but he sees that "This man is being hanged." He cannot explain; he says, "By chance." So whose explanation is right? The chance explanation or the destiny explanation—which is right?

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but they cannot explain what is this controller; therefore they disbelieve. Just like yesterday we were discussing that atheist class, that they are by chance there was lusty desires and there was pregnancy and there will be child. So we say, "No. Daiva-netreṇa. These things have been arranged by superior authorities." This is destiny, that what is already arranged by superior authority, that is destiny. You cannot change it. A man is ordered to be hanged by court justice, you cannot change. He is to be hanged. And they will say, "By chance he will be hanged."

Jñānagamya: Sometimes something happens to interfere with that. He gets a reprieve from the governor, or the rope breaks, and they only hang him once.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but first thing is that if one is ordered to be hanged, he has to be hanged. Destined. But these people, they do not see who has ordered because they do not accept authority. They will say, "It is by chance." They have not seen who has ordered, who is that authority. They cannot explain; therefore they say "Chance."

Jñānagamya: They have no science of astrology, so they cannot understand the universe and how it's working.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Astrology... I don't think they believe in astrology. There is no question of astrology. We practically we see that one man ordered to be hanged by the justice, he has to be hanged. That is destiny. One has not seen who has ordered, but he sees that "This man is being hanged." He cannot explain; he says, "By chance." So whose explanation is right? The chance explanation or the destiny explanation—which is right?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Actually, logically, I cannot see how there is any chance, not a single. When I was a child I used to give an argument to my friend, and he used to say, "A chance. Everything is chance. It is like a lottery ticket." I said to him, "If you don't buy the lottery ticket and win $50,000, then that is chance. But if you buy the lottery ticket..."

Prabhupāda: How it is chance?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no chance, because you bought the lottery ticket, so...

Prabhupāda: Your destiny. Then your destiny.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They miss the order and the controller and the organizer...

Prabhupāda: That is whole purpose—how to defy God. That is their whole plan.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Original orders, that should be copied and sent. This arrangement, ask them all over India and beside that we have recently got a testimony of one University authorities, just like one Goswami from Calcutta University and many others they have got. These copies should be sent immediately. We can approach even the chief justice of Allahabad high-court, he came here, the minister here, the governor of Punjab, he came to see me, the governor...

Hari-śauri: Andhra Pradesh government also.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Andhra Pradesh, chief minister.

Hari-śauri: Immediately (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Minister, Vṛndāvana. Collect all these and send it that this is a genuine movement because it is great cultural movement. Therefore, Swami Bhaktivedanta wanted to give it to Europe who are in the darkness. So anyway, now they are feeling the action of the medicine.

Haṁsadūta: (laughs) Yeah.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So many big, big sign boards, "Kṛṣṇa is coming." "Here is Kṛṣṇa." (sounds of pages being turned) "Here is Kṛṣṇa."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This we can bring a charge against them: "Prove that we wanted money."

Rāmeśvara: Yes, we are counter... We are fighting them. "...by writing to the District Attorney's"—those are the Justice Department Offices—"or contacting your local media." Then they give the addresses of people in New York and two addresses in Los Angeles who you should write to telling them about all the knowledge you have about all the abuses of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then it says, "You should commence action for a legal deprogramming. If other families of Hare Kṛṣṇa victims would go to court to get a legal conservatorship or guardianship with an intended writ of habeas corpus..." Now, what this means is you go to the court, and you say "My dear judge, my son is in Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has been brainwashed." And you have a paper from a psychiatrist that says, "Yes, he is definitely acting in a robotlike way." Then the court will say, "All right, you're the parent. So we give you legal guardianship over the son."

Prabhupāda: No, we can place a counter psychiatrist and counter... Just like Cox's statement.

Rāmeśvara: There is one law in America where they don't even give you a chance to defend. They immediately give the parents the guardianship. Now, this law was written to protect old people, and they are cheating and using the law against us. Sometimes old people become senile, and, let's say, they'll do harmful things. They may give away their money. They may do things in a state of...

Prabhupāda: But we have got parents' organization also.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: Because in these temporary guardianship cases, the court is already against us in many places.

Prabhupāda: But... Against may be, but so far the decision of the psychiatrist, we can present our psychiatrist.

Rāmeśvara: There's no equal time given. It's one-sided only.

Prabhupāda: That means in the name of justice, injustice is going on.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This law is unconstitutional. I mentioned that there is a group of lawyers who are now organizing a committee nationwide to defend us, and they're going to prove that this law should be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right cause. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They're already working on that. So then they say, "If you can do this to your son, then it will get national news media into the scene, and then people will learn about Hare Kṛṣṇa in particular, and all the effects of destructive cults on our youth." Then it says, "We have a legal packet which contains advice on the procedure and techniques for legal deprogramming."

Prabhupāda: So nowhere they have mentioned my name. That is good. (laughter) Otherwise, I would have been the target. That was very dangerous.

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes... One of the general charges they make against all the different religious groups in America is that the leader is actually making a lot of profit for himself.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) Very nice. People will so much appreciate it. Yes. They've never seen. From artistic point of view, it should be rewarded by government. And they are prosecuting us. This... What injustice... So many young men, they're exhibiting their talents in this art, and they are trying to harass us. What is this government? Put this matter before this government, that "Just see, your lordships, we are presenting culture, religion, knowledge, philosophy, art, and they are trying to condemn us. Do you think it is all right?" Simply ask. "It was never known in this country. And it is worthy. We are the first-class nation in the world, and we are still giving something more of our talent. Instead of encouraging government help, we have to suffer this harassment. Do you think it is justice?" Just put before him.

Rāmeśvara: It is like you wrote in that letter to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "They did not mind when the children were hippies, taking drugs, having prostitutes. But now that they have joined Hare Kṛṣṇa, now they are kidnapping you. They did not protest formerly when they were engaged in all sinful life. Now they are completely pure. Now they are complaining."

Jagadīśa: Now their children are afraid of sinful life, and they think it's brainwashing.

Rāmeśvara: This is a devotee making part of the armor for Arjuna. Each time they make an outfit, they do a very careful drawing. Then from the drawing, they make the actual equipment or armor.

Prabhupāda: And how devotedly he is working. That is the..., that "I am..." How devotedly he is working. That will elevate him. He's very attentively serving Kṛṣṇa. This is advancement.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Young men means about forty.

Gargamuni: Yeah. I think he's around forty or forty-five.

Rāmeśvara: But then the best one is by Dr. Mukherjee, former Chief Justice. He writes that "This book is an intellectual, a cultural, and a spiritual landmark in this world. The beautiful printing and photographs evoke the spirit of the work. It is a book which should be in the library of every reader who values the essential glories of human life..."

Prabhupāda: This is the judgment of the Chief Justice. He's not ordinary man.

Rāmeśvara: "...and the ultimate destiny of this universe." Then there is that other quote. This is also very important, by the Deputy Director of the Lok Sabha Secretariat.

Gargamuni: That Subhramaniam.

Rāmeśvara: He's a big man. And this is the national government.

Gargamuni: No, the central. Lok Sabha is like the Parliament.

Prabhupāda: Lok Sabha is Parliament. Lok Sabha means Parliament.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: There is poverty. And "We are..." The same thing: "Mother, everything is all right. Simply there is no cloth, there is no food." You don't want to die. Nobody wants to die. Why you are dying? That is the real poverty. From the śāstra we understand, na hanyate hanyamāne śarī... (BG 2.20). Why I am under this tribulation?

Yogeśvara: So they may challenge, "Do you mean to say that you can feed the whole world without meat?"

Prabhupāda: We don't say; you are saying. We don't say. We say that you must be punished without food. You are dying without food. That is your proper justice. We say that. We are not anxious to this daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. We are not. We give. Whatever we have got, we distribute prasādam. That's all. We are not concerned about their daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. That is not our business. Suppose there are so many persons, they are without food in the hospital. Doctor has prescribed, "No food." What you can do there? Can you show your sympathy? "Oh, so many persons are lying without... Let us give." Then you'll be beaten with shoes.

Yogeśvara: Because you haven't understood the purpose.

Prabhupāda: If you go with sympathy that "So many hungry persons are here," then you will be beaten with shoes. That we know, That we should not disturb the arrangement of the hospital. We are saner. But you are disturbed. "Oh, so many people are starving. Let me give him some." You are rascal.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You'll get the path of yānti deva. You go to Mother and become a goat and be sacrificed. You cut throat of a goat now by satisfying Mother, and next life the goat will cut throat, yours. Go to mother. That's all. If you like, you can go. And if you think that is good—by worshiping Mother, "I am getting daily nice goat flesh. Why shall I go to Kṛṣṇa?" That's all right, but be prepared, that so many times you'll be also cut, your head, and this goat will get chance to cut your head. Mother is witness. Mother is for the goat and for you also. So you are cutting the throat of the goat, so why the Mother will not give the chance to the goat to cut your head? Why do you think like that, rascal? "The Mother is kind to me and unkind to the goat?" That means naṣṭa-buddhi, lost intelligence. If you think Mother, then you must think that Mother of the goat also. Why Mother will tolerate? This is justice. Actually the mantra is there, that "Goat, you are sacrificing your life. You get immediately chance of human being." That is his profit. He would have evolved himself in so many lives and then get a human life. But because he's sacrificing his life before Mother, he gets immediately an lift to become a human man. And the human, because he becomes, he has got the right to cut the throat of the man who sacrificed him. This is the mantra. So if you take this risk, do that because how to become a goat, how to become a man, that is in the hands of Mother. That is not in your hand. So Mother, if she gives lift to the goat to become a man and if she degrades you to become a goat, that is in the Mother's hand. You cannot check it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamā... Mother is just to everyone.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. The policemen wear tilaka. There is justice for sure.

Prabhupāda: So immediately do it. I shall go. If there is such possibility... Let us have a small ideal state. If respectable gentlemen take it, oh, it will be a great success, an ideal state throughout the whole world, Vaiṣṇava state.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Example. You can show that example.

Prabhupāda: Show their policemen, all with tilaka, and marching, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do they chant there?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They have...

Prabhupāda: We shall train them. Military march, Manipur. Slogan: "Jaya Rādhe! Jaya Kṛṣṇa! Jaya Babhruvāhana! Jaya Arjuna!" And then let us go. We shall organize Bombay headquarter, Manipur Vaiṣṇava state, send missionary all over the world, bona fide, scientific system of religion, ideal character. Ideal character. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). That we have to show. "Here is the sum total of all good qualities." That we have to show. We haven't got to go anywhere. Knowledge, good quality, happiness, advancement of life, everything complete. So let us go to Manipur. Arrange for that.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then where is his belief? Where is the question of belief? Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief. It is bogus principle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's all... His next question is, "The essence of Christianism is to believe that Christ is our saviour and redeemer, but the final test of one's faith in Christ rests upon one's hope that he will come back down to earth from heaven to establish his glory and his realm of justice forever. Is this second advent of his to be taken as a symbolic one, or will he actually come back?"

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What does he say? What does he say? Explain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does he say?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he quotes, "And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of earth mourn and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." In other words... "And shall he send..." There is so many statements in the Bible to allude that Christ will come again.

Prabhupāda: What is the harm if he comes again?

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the judgment of high-court, that should be also printed.

Gargamuni: The chief justice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the judgment from New York.

Prabhupāda: And respectable gentlemen will understand what is this temple. It is not this ordinary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hyderabad they can do the same. So you are going to get copies made and make a block?

Gargamuni: Oh, yeah, I am going to send a man down today.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Make a block.

Gargamuni: Yeah, for printing. You mean... What kind of a block?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A printing block.

Gargamuni: A printing block, because I am going to send these to all our colleges.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you give me a few copies? Send it to the temple to me.

Prabhupāda: So how many copies you have printed?

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "According to the constitutional directive, harijanas should account for twenty percent of the posts in the government service." But first of all they should be qualified. We can use the example that if your father is a high-court justice, does it make you a high-court justice?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First you have to be qualified.

Prabhupāda: This is no plea, that there is checking: because he is born in a low-grade family, there is no educational facilities. "You cannot do it," say that, "for want of culture."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then they quote Dr. Ambedekhar saying, "We will attain self-elevation only if we learn self-help, regain self-respect, and gain self-knowledge." But what is the self, they don't know.

Prabhupāda: That we can teach.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, "The surest way for our salvation lies in higher education."

Prabhupāda: So who forbids? Is there any restriction that... (break)

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: For Manipur business don't mistake. Don't use them. We form this five-man subcommittee and take the donation. Then you develop. (looking at newspaper) Whose photo is there?

Bhakti-caru: Mr. J. C. Shah, an agent... "Former Chief Justice, Mr. J. C. Shah, who is going to assist (indistinct) during the emergency. The former Supreme Court Judge is an agent into the affairs of..."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Bhakti-caru: Enquiry...

Prabhupāda: Now...

Bhakti-caru: But it depends on... Everything depends on how much honest they will be.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: How honest they will be.

Prabhupāda: Kānā-māmā (?). If there is no māmā, blind māmā is all right. And who is that, this photograph?

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break) ...how he'll do better. Big lawyer in the court means he'll be (indistinct). "My Lord Justice..." Deception, this, that... He's a big lawyer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know... I have a desire to do it, but I don't know if I'll have much opportunity.

Prabhupāda: Well, we have no opportunity, but we'll have to find out opportunity. And that is intelligence. Even those who have opportunity, who is taking care of? Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. We have to reduce these things, nidrāhāra. It is for this, only writing. That's all. We have written so many books only for selling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we have to read them still.

Prabhupāda: No, that, you do not take care. I said three times, "yaḥ." Now you simply saw "y-a." Why did you not see "y-a-ḥ"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I didn't realize it was spelled that way. It's my lack of learning.

Prabhupāda: Spelling... But yaḥ, you do not know, "So let me see how to this 'yaḥ.' Which yaḥ is there."