Dr. Weir: May I make one strange statement that I think it is rather true of present world. People are always afraid of fear and love. It's almost as though it's something sissy or, you know, to get so mixed up with sentimentality.
Mensa Member: I don't know if it is rather than fear.
Dr. Weir: Well I mean... If you don't know. If I were afraid of you because of absolute knowledge or...
Mensa Member: Yaḥ.
Dr. Weir: ...terrified of the unknown.
Mensa Member: That's very true. That's why (indistinct) children (indistinct) and such like and things like the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement who not only (indistinct) philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Just like the child is afraid of the father. There is affection. My father is displeased that I do... Father has says, "Don't touch this." So I don't touch. My father has... So that fear and affection, both is there. It is not simply that he is afraid of his father but the affection is there. So to become obedient to the authority, there is a tinge of fear also but that is based on affection. That is not actually...
Śyāmasundara: They were saying also that in this age, particularly now, there is a great fear of loving someone or something on the part of the large population. They think that by...
Prabhupāda: There is no real love. There is expectation of being frustrated in love.
Dr. Weir: Rebuffed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rebuffed. So therefore they're...
Dr. Weir: Terrified, actually.
Prabhupāda: So because everything in this material world is the perverted reflection therefore we sometimes love somebody and we become frustrated. So therefore others see that this man has loved that girl and he's now frustrated, "Oh, why shall I love?" That is due to frustration. But there is a perfectional stage. There is a perfectional stage, therefore we say it is perverted reflection. Just like our Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa—that is the perfectional stage of love. Rādhārāṇī is a young girl and Kṛṣṇa is a young boy. There is love. So originally this love between young boy and girl is there but that is in perfect stage. Here in this material world, the same thing is pervertedly reflected. Therefore it is imperfect. So we have come to the perfectional stage, not be afraid and give it up-frustration. But, love is there. But there is a perfectional stage of love, we have to learn that.
Dr. Weir: It's the great called Agapes(?) as opposed to the old other problem Eros.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Lust and..., Eros, lust. Agape(?) is pure love, transcendental love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring everything to the perfectional stage. The others, they're, out of frustration, they want to stop all activity. That is voidism—to stop all this activity. Buddha philosophy is more or less based on this voidism, make everything null and void. No more activities. No more love. We don't say. Just like you cannot see properly because our eyes are diseased. So cure the disease and then you see properly. And other says, "All right, pluck it out. The disease in the eyes, take away." That is not very good proposition. We say that make treatment to make the eyes to see properly. Remedy problem. Our proposition is: Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena... (CC Madhya 19.170). We simply cleanse the process. The seeing process we cleanse. We don't pluck out the eyes out of frustration. Don't see, make everything void. No. We don't say that because there is no void. It is simply frustration. There is variety, nice variety, spiritual variety. We are bringing people to that position.
Dr. Weir: I must say that's very interesting.