Independent (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"independant" |"independent" |"independently"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. God is great. We are small. The small business is to serve the great. That is going on everywhere.

Dr. Patel: And mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja means "You do work according to My dictate. That is My śaraṇam."

Prabhupāda: This is śaraṇam, not that you remain independent from śaraṇam. No.

Dr. Patel: That means you obey the infallible laws of God.

Prabhupāda: God says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. This is dharma.

Dr. Patel: They are thinking of psychological, sir. If you think of a particular thing, then you become merge in that. Practically your mind becomes so... That is how the researches are carried out by (indistinct). You become mad on that. You become mad on Kṛṣṇa. You get...

Prabhupāda: It is natural to serve God, to remain faithful to Him. This is natural. Artificially you are trying to be independent. This is the Māyāvāda... Still, they are trying to become God himself.

Dr. Patel: Sir, after first I met you, some previous time, I made an extensive study of both the sides of Vaiṣṇavism as well as the (indistinct). I think they are falling short of the final (indistinct). Once they say that they are in Brahman, but there is Parabrahman also. That Brahman is nothing but a jyoti of Parabrahman. That they forget.

Prabhupāda: That means knowledge.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: I should make it, or Pālikā or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Pālikā. (break) ...business, that requires so many other things. But if you take to agriculture you can do it immediately. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. That... We are going to do that. Kṛṣi... This is beginning, family life, maintenance, body and soul together. This is the beginning. Business is there when there is excess. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). First of all you take care of the cows and engage yourself in agricultural products. Then when there is excess production, you trade, get some money for other purposes. But you... Agriculture means you work for producing food. That is wanted. Why immediately go to trade? Trade is required when there is excess product. Everything is there. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. And the kṛṣi you can produce independently. You simply work. You have got your hands and legs. You till the ground and throw some seed, and it will come. One kilo seeds, you'll get one hundred mounds. Then, when the product is excess, you trade. Everything is there. If you produce food grain, you'll eat nicely and you'll be strong. You'll be able to work more. Our point is take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Everything will be perfect. Not that Kṛṣṇa is advising immediately sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). For that stage you are not prepared. That I know. But in your present stage what you'll do, that is perfect.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: He just said that "I will not follow religion in the traditional sense."

Prabhupāda: That means another condition. From frying pan to the fire. (laughter) Dharmena hīna paśubhiḥ samaḥ. As soon as you give up religious principles, you are no better than animal. That means he will manufacture. The same disease. "I'll not follow the traditional." This is their death block. That they always think that "I am independent. I can manufacture my way. I can become happy in that way." They're always thinking like that. And in a meeting with hundreds of men claps, that he is his liberated. "Now it is approved." Who is approving? That is criticized by Bhāgavata. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). This. They are animals and they are applauding another animal. That's all. Big animal. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ. These ordinary persons, they are paśu and they are applauding. The man who is applauded, he's another big paśu. That's all.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our gurukula means how to teach them to become self-controlled. That is first business. This literary education secondary, grammar secondary. The first necessity is how to create them śānta, dānta, self-controlled.

Indian lady: But we have got from Punjab Board and education board...

Prabhupāda: And therefore I say, if you have to work under government control, it is very difficult. If you can work independently, then it is possible.

Indian lady: It is independent. I'm independent. I'm doing everything.

Prabhupāda: No, if you take government help...

Indian lady: But the students go for examination in the board also.

Prabhupāda: Examination or no examination, if you, they practice the rules, that is sufficient examination. Suppose one of the items, that one has to rise early in the morning... So if one is rising early in the morning, then what is the examination? That is already examined. If one has to rise early in the morning, attend the maṅgala-ārati, sitting in the class and reading Bhagavad-gītā, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa... These are all practical. There is no need of examination. If he is doing, then it is examination passed.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand. They're so much in darkness, mūḍha. "Today I am very great national leader, my country, my..." So on, so on. And tomorrow by the laws of nature if I become a dog in Europe, then where is my nationalism? And it is possible. What is called? Because you are under nature's law, you are not independent. Therefore they have given up this idea that there is life after death. This is their first ignorance.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That one thing is that this sort of publicity and this, this dress, is very nice. Girls who have no husband, they should dress like this, not attractive dress. A dress sometimes attracts the opposite sex. And women are... By nature they dress very nicely. (laughs) That is everywhere—to attract. The nature is that they are dependent, woman by nature. Do you admit or not?

Pālikā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And the Western countries, they have been taught to become independent. That is artificial. That is all artificial. So, woman by nature... Manu-saṁhitā says, na striyaṁ svatantram arhati: "Women should not be given independence." They must be protected by the father, by husband, and by elderly sons. They are not independent. No independence. Even Kuntī, the mother of such big, big sons, she was not independent. The sons were sent to the exile; mother also went. Sītā... The father-in-law never said that "You also go with your husband." No. He requested Rāmacandra that "Your stepmother wants that You should be exiled. So please accept it. Accept this." And Rāmacandra said that "You are not exiled." But Sītā said, "I may not be exiled, but I am dependent on You. If You go to the forest I must..." You see? Just see, dependent.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: You are thrown in the lower yonis.

Prabhupāda: Lower? Yes, yes. Lower... That is mṛtyu-saṁsāra. Suppose next life I become dog. Then my becoming very big scientist, big lawyer, big this and that, everything finished. But that law is not in your hand. After death, you cannot say, "Mother nature, you are giving this body. I don't like it." No. "It is not in your liking. It is my liking." Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). When you are criminal, you are under the grip of the magistrate. If he puts you in jail, you cannot say that "I don't like." No. You like or not; you must go. Who cares for your liking? Therefore mūḍha. Prakṛteḥ. Prakṛti, the laws of nature, is working in its own way. Nobody can change it. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Those who are rascal, they are thinking, "I am independent. Whatever I like, I can do. There is no God. There is no law." Kartāham iti manyate. That should be avoided, that I am independent. Means that knowledge is lacking at the present moment. "Whatever I think, I can do. It is private. Religion is private." And big, big swamis are supporting. "Yes, religion is your private."

Dr. Patel: Even the state says "Religion is your private..."

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The rascal says. A rascal says. It is not private. No private-public. It is laws of nature. You have to abide by that. The nature's law is "Now winter. You have to cover your body." There is no second law. So that is wanting, that we are... The present defect is that every one of us under the laws of God or nature, whatever you say. And still, we are declaring independence. This is the defect. Prakrti-stho 'pi.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. So we are trying to do that. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). It will be accepted by the devotees, not the karmī, jñānī, yogis, no. Only bhaktas. Therefore mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. So we have got two functions: first of all we are trying to make them bhakta, and then convincing him about this philosophy. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Without being bhakta, nobody will understand what is yoga. The beginning is bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyam ekam uttamam: (BG 4.3) "Because, Arjuna, you are My bhakta, I'll explain to you. Otherwise it is lost." So without being a bhakta, nobody can understand Bhagavad-gītā. However he may say that "I am very staunch devotee. I am reader of...," he will misunderstand. So here Kṛṣṇa clearly says that "This is the most confidential knowledge. And without being bhakta, nobody will be able to understand." So the preacher has got two different businesses. One side, he has to make bhakta. The persons will... Because without being bhakta, he cannot understand. Then he teaches. So these two businesses going on in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. To become bhakta there is Deity—"Come here. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: Just think of Me: Just man-manā. And become a devotee." And naturally, if he comes to the temple, he'll offer some obeisances, he'll offer some flower, some fruit. Mad-yājī. Even a child will offer namaskara. In this way he becomes devotee. And then he understands. So we have got two functions. All over the world, whey we are opening these centers? Bhakto 'si—to make them bhakta. And they have become bhakta. And then you speak something about Kṛṣṇa. He'll learn it. So that is explained here, ya idaṁ paramam... Who will surrender? "Huh! I shall go to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. I shall surrender to my senses." Surrender he has to. He's not independent. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Because he's rascal by ahaṅkāra, false ego, he does not accept Kṛṣṇa—"Huh! Why shall I accept Kṛṣṇa?" He will accept māyā. And the māyā, by pulling by the ear—"Come here. Sit down"—that I shall accept. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām... And that... But stop that force. That he does not do. "Better let māyā pull me by the ear, and whatever she likes, I shall do." But he'll not like to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Mechanized means...

Gargamuni: A diesel engine.

Prabhupāda: Then you'll require mechanics. You cannot ply or..., independently. If some mechanical wrong is there, then you are...

Gargamuni: No, we have our own men who service our vehicles. They know diesel engine.

Prabhupāda: So there is no objection, but too much mechanical means you have to depend. You consider that.

Gargamuni: But then sometimes there's also no wind and they have to sit for three or four days.

Prabhupāda: So wind you cannot move. That is not safe.

Gargamuni: No, if there's no wind, then they can't move. And they have to have these men to... They walk on the shore and push the boat, and it takes so long, and there's so many villages that they can do. They can do thirty thousand books in one month if they had a boat which could travel freely.

Prabhupāda: Then what will happen to this boat?

Gargamuni: No, we can use both. But we want to expand the program.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So I have no objection. Money can be supplied, but it may not be another burden. That's it.

Gargamuni: No, we'll investigate the ship because in Calcutta is a very big center of shipbuilding.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He is also... He becomes recognized by the master. "Oh, he is trying for this, what I want." Naturally he becomes immediately recognized, although he has no qualification. If he tries. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become guru. No qualification required. Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said." Just see how simplified. Don't talk anything nonsense. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-bas. So who cannot do it? Anyone can do it, even a child. (laughs) Our Śyāmasundara's daughter. She was preaching, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" They said, "No I have got no..." "The Supreme Personality." This is preaching, simply if you say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, supreme controller. Just be obedient to Him." Where is the difficulty? Anyone can preach. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Three words: Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; surrender unto Him; and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Your life will be successful. What is the difficulty in preaching these three words? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Even a child like Sarasvatī, she can preach. Then what to speak of others? Those who are educated, grown-up, advanced, they can put the matter more nicely, more convincingly, more philosophically. That is another thing. But these three words, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord; you are servant; and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa"—bas, preaching complete. Very simple thing and the sublime instruction. Everyone can become guru by simply teaching these three words. Not sophisticated, but he must also understand not blindly. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra, janma sārthaka kari (CC Adi 9.41)'. He must also understand these three words perfectly. Then wherever he speaks, he'll be successful. Not that "For you I am speaking. I can do everything independently." No. I am also servant of Kṛṣṇa. Realized. This is realization.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He must know that he's servant.

Satsvarūpa: By hearing.

Prabhupāda: By practically knowing he's a... Are you independent, anyone? Everyone is servant. He's serving his senses. That's all. He's servant. He's never master. But he has become the servant of māyā or senses. That's all. He has to change only; instead of becoming servant of māyā, be servant of Kṛṣṇa. Servant he is. Where he'll go? How he will become master? To remain a servant is his position. He cannot become master. That is false pride. As soon as he wants to be master, that is false pride. That is māyā. "So if I am servant, then I have to serve. So why shall I serve the senses' dictation? I will serve Kṛṣṇa, what He says." So he's self-realized immediately, within a second. Where is the difficulty to become self-realized? Hm? Is there any difficulty? He must know that "I am serving. I am never master. But serving the senses, that's all, whims of the senses in the name of independence." That is not possible. Very simple philosophy. One who understands, he's self-realized. And if he preaches, then he becomes recognized. On this principle we shall help everyone. "Come here. Stay with us nicely. Nicely you can. But serve Kṛṣṇa. We take responsibility." Organize in this way throughout the whole world. Give them shelter; give them food; give them cloth. That is the most benevolent welfare activity in the human society. So here people have generally tendency to come to the beach to enjoy. "All right, we shall give you a place. Come on. Stay here. You haven't got to pay anything for food or lodging. Simply attend ārati, classes. Then... For experiment, three days' period, you see."

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: Some people don't like to live in the community.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Some people, they don't want to join...

Prabhupāda: Community, if you don't, you independently live. But this is the principle.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They can do that in their house. They can live in their house and do all that.

Prabhupāda: Wherever you live, this is the principle.

Gargamuni: There are many people who are doing that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Gargamuni: They are offering their food, they have...

Prabhupāda: There is no question. Community means to help one another. If you can help yourself, do it.

Satsvarūpa: But at least meet with us for training, for classes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is training. Community means I learn from you; you learn from the principles. But if you don't like community, you do it yourself. But this is opportunity. You learn it. Sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). By association of... And we must be sādhus. If we are also dogs and hogs, what they will learn?

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyāsī and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh? You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard—how you can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied. But what is this home? To sense gratification. You are not serving this woman. Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses. So actually the man is serving his own senses, uṣṭra. He's eating his own blood and thinking, "Thorn very palatable." He's eating thorn. What is his palatable? Cutting the tongue and blood is coming out, and when the thorn's chewed with this blood, it makes little taste. Blood has got taste. And he's thinking, "Thorn is very nice." Therefore they have been called as uṣṭra. Uṣṭra eats own, drinks or eats his own blood, and takes the thorn as very good. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. These animals have been specially mentioned: dog; viḍ-varāha, means hog; uṣṭra; and khara means ass. How Bhāgavata has selected. (laughs) Śva means dog. Dog, after technical education, if he does not get a post where he can use this computer and other big, big..., he's a dog. He goes to a bank, "Sir, I am expert in this machine work. Can you give me a job?" "No, no. There is no vacancy." Then again he puts his tail, goes another, another. What is use, this? The big, big technologists, unless they get a suitable job, they're just like dog. Dog is loitering in the street, no food. So these men with all this high technological knowledge, if they do not get a proper master, they are nothing but dog. This is university education. So dog and hog. Hog means he can eat any nonsense thing, whole day working, if he gets sex. Never mind whether mother, sister or daughter or any. You see the hog's family. They are very much sexually inclined, without any discrimination, and eating stool. This is his life. You see nowadays this man, he's eating anything, the hog's intestine.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Why you say, speak India or in England? The human intelligence is the same. There is no change. They have made like this: "East," "West" and "England," and... The psychology is the same. The ass is the same. The camel is the same. The dog is the same. We are talking of these dogs. Do you think that in Europe the dog is different from Indian dog? (laughs) They have created another problem. But we take: "You are all dogs. Either you be Indian or England or German, you are, after all, after dog. Your mentality is dog." They have created that "Indian dog is better than the English dog" or "English dog is better than German." What is better? It is dog. You are doglike and hankering after some job in America and amongst Europeans. The Indians are all doing that, the same education. Recently for a post of five hundred men there were three lakhs of applications. This is education. And you'll find uneducated Indian, still he's independent. You will find in Calcutta especially we have seen. Yes. In the morning they'll purchase a bag of potato. Say, he invests twenty rupees. Nowadays he'll sit down in a corner and make two rupees' profit. He invests twenty rupees, and he gets twenty-two. He's satisfied, poor man. Then in the, say, ten to twelve he'll purchase some dāl. He'll go home to home. He'll make another two rupees' profit. In the evening he'll take some kerosene oil, and he'll sell. Evening everyone requires kerosene oil. He'll make another two rupees. So he's illiterate. He makes six rupees' profit, five rupees' profit, and if he can, ten rupees' profit. And takes some chana cho(?), some peanuts, sit down. In this way he's independently earning five to ten rupees. And educated? He's just like dog—"Give me job"—and unemployed and eating at the cost of father or welfare activities, welfare department, and moving like dog. Just see practically. The uneducated, he's earning because he knows that "If I go with application, what education I have got? Nobody will like me." He's hopeless in that way. "So let me try in my own way." He's earning ten rupees. And the other man, he's starving and taking help from the government, eating at the cost of father. This is education.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: They wanted this division.

Pradyumna: Gandhi was very much against division.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Division means that what remains India? Formerly India was India, Burma, Ceylon. They never divided, divided. They wanted that "Divide, divide, divide, and let this rascal have a small plot of land."

Guest (1): No, even they made it, all the states, independent.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to make their choice: "You can join either Pakistan or India."

Guest (1): Or remain independent also.

Prabhupāda: They wanted to make nil India. The Hyderabad state was given choice. Kashmir was given choice, whichever, Hindustan or Pakistan. That is still going on, the Kashmir.

Guest (1): Even in Orissa, small states just like Mariwan(?) and Venkana(?), they were independent before that time, till Sardar Patel(?) came in and asked them to...

Prabhupāda: Simply divide, divide, divide. Divide and rule, and divide and break. They have done always like that.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Yes. Because their whole life is there.

Prabhupāda: They are not independent. Fully dependent on the employer. So they give poor salary. Dai Nippon has their own hospital, own education, and everything, big industry. And little salary, that's all. So whatever house they allot, they have to accept. And I have seen the director living in a cottage like this almost. So Japanese actually they are poor. Only the capitalists, they have got... Therefore their yen value... You go to purchase—"Two thousand yen." You'll be surprised, "So much paying!" But it has no value. "One million yen." (laughs) In the beginning I... "What is this nonsense? So much?"

Hari-śauri: Our devotees, Gurukṛpā's party, they're talking about they collect a hundred thousand, eighty thousand, but it means, that means...

Prabhupāda: It means few dollars.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So new... When they are trained up, they can come, live, especially gṛhasthas. My point is whether the farm is attractive. Not very much.

Yogeśvara: The potential is wonderful.

Prabhupāda: And therefore I'm asking. Potential is wonderful, so why they are not attracted to live in the farm and be self-independent and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? That is our farm project. Our farm project is they should be satisfied with simple living. That is nice living. If you get milk, if you get fruit, if you get grain and open air, it is very healthy life. Why they should not be attracted?

Yogeśvara: It is still the beginning, and because it's the beginning, it is a little difficult sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That may be. But this should be our aim. We should not be attracted by the modern city life. Simplified life. Save time and utilize for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect life. Just like Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana life means agriculturist, cowherd boys, uneducated girls, cows and calves, and tree, fruits. This is Vṛndāvana. The center is Kṛṣṇa.

Yogeśvara: Simple living.

Prabhupāda: But they are the topmost devotees. These (chuckling) uneducated, without any town life, cow-men, they are Kṛṣṇa's best friend. Unsophisticated, no education, but love intense—that is perfect. That attracted Kṛṣṇa more. Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya na padam ekaṁ (sic:) na kartavya... Kṛṣṇa is so much attached to Vṛndāvana that He goes nowhere... What is that? They are not educated girls, up-to-date fashion, (indistinct) or nothing. Crude. As soon as there was blowing of the flute, immediately they began to run towards Kṛṣṇa. Somebody is taking care of children, somebody is engaged in boiling milk, and somebody was even lying down with her husband. Still, immediately... Very crude, unsophisticated, but intense love for Kṛṣṇa—that is Vṛndāvana. We want to introduce this farm project means intense love for Kṛṣṇa. And other things—very simple: little milk, little food grain, little vegetable, that's all. And that is very nice. If you get fresh vegetable, fresh milk, and food grain, what do you want more? And from milk you can prepare so many nice preparations, unlimited number, all very palatable, sweet. This civilization we want to introduce, not so-called rascal civilization and become implicated in this cycle of birth and death. This is not civilization. This is killing civilization. Human being got the opportunity to get out of these clutches of birth and death. They do not understand. They're so rascal, they do not understand how they are implicated in this cycle of birth and death, nor they do take it seriously, that this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). They are so blind rascals, they do not see that this is real suffering. They do not know it. Simply theorizing, making plan, and they do not know what is the suffering. Such a rascal civilization. So we have to introduce real civilization. Therefore we are struggling so hard. So make in such a way. That's a very nice place, center of Europe and very nice place. What is the condition of rainfall?

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...thousandth part of the top tip of the hair. That is also given. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā (CC Madhya 19.140). In the Upaniṣads there is. The dimension of the ātmā is given. That small particle, atomic, is so powerful. And what about the Supreme?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They ask, "What is the force that combined matter and the ātmā, matter and life, matter and the jīva or ātmā? What is the force behind it?"

Prabhupāda: Force because ātmā is independent. He can live in the spiritual world or in the material world as he likes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But is not correct, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Paramātmā is the...

Prabhupāda: Paramātmā is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...is behind.

Prabhupāda: Yes, behind, yes. He's the origin of ātmā. Mamaivāṁśa. Kṛṣṇa said, "This ātmā is my small particle part." He says that. So Paramātmā is the origin, and these are fragmental parts of Paramātmā.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That makes our statement very valid.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ātmā... Super-ātmā is the source of ātmā.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can explain everything, all..., but cannot explain by science.

Prabhupāda: That is the Bhagavad-gītā, Seventh Chapter, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā: (BG 7.4) "They are also My energy, and beyond this, there is superior energy." Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Both of them, energies, the material elements and the spiritual element, both of them are different energy of the supreme ātmā. So one is superior; another is inferior. Because we are superior, we are controlling the inferior energy, and by such control, from inferior energy matter, we have created this motor car. Therefore I am superior.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Word jugglery. Simply a word jugglery.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. What is the value of that? The machine is made by another brain, and it is being worked over by another brain. And who has made that brain who has made the machine? That is māyā. Then ultimately you have to come to māyā. And who is giving direction? Big brain, Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). He is making machine—carācaram. Yasyājñayā... Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Māyā is Durgā, the superintending deity of this whole, whole universe. And she is Durgā, therefore called. "Very difficult." Duḥ-gā. You can approach her very, with difficulty. Duḥ. Duḥ means duḥkha.. You cannot understand even Durgā, so what to speak of the Supreme Person who is giving directions to this...? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya... (Bs. 5.44), chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. She has no independent intelligence. She is working like chāya. Just like here, chāya. This is moving; this is moving.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shadow.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say that "You also cannot."

Prabhupāda: I do not say that we are very good brain. We are servant of God. We have nothing to show, any brain. Our brain will be shown by our master. Our position is God. So we are not very much anxious to show our... But you are godless rascals. You want to show your brain. Show me machine. We have all accepted that supreme brain is Kṛṣṇa and we are servant. That is our position. We don't say that "Independent. There is no God." We don't. You say that. We are working under superior brain. So the case has to be proved by you, not by us. What is called, onus? What is that, onus?

Brahmānanda: Burden of proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your duty, not us. You have to prove it. (break) And now don't go to the court with any other dress. Preach like this. Preach there with this dress. Have they any objection with this dress?

Hari-śauri: In this dress.

Ādi-keśava: I agree. I think it is very good that they see us dressed like this in court.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we should...

Ādi-keśava: They will understand what we are.

Prabhupāda: We shall...

Hari-śauri: We have to represent our religion properly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You, Me, and all these kings, they were existing—the individual. You, Me, and... They're existing now, and they'll continue to exist." So where there is oneness? All individual eternally, as aṁśa, aṁśī, this finger and the body. You can say this finger is my body, but finger is not the body, whole body. Finger is finger. Not that if Kṛṣṇa's body is eternal, the finger is also eternal. Not that today it is finger, tomorrow is whole body. That is defective, Māyāvāda philosophy. Finger always exists as finger. Kṛṣṇa is eternal, His finger is eternal, but the finger and the body is the same material. They're not different. They become different when they come to material world without touch of Kṛṣṇa. This finger is finger even it is cut, but it is useless. When this finger is cut and fallen in the ground it will be said, "finger of Swamiji or somebody." It is not anything... But because it is cut from the whole, it has no value. One screw from this machine is the same screw. But when it is separate from this machine, it has no value. But when you want to add to it—you go to purchase that screw—it will cost you five rupees. But without this machine, nobody cares for that screw. So our position is like that.

kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare

nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare

(Prema-vivarta)

As soon as he separated from Kṛṣṇa to become independent, that is māyā. He has, loses all value, spiritual value. And in connection with māyā, it appears in different forms. And, the example is given, as the moon reflected in the water and when the water is agitated, it is sometimes round, sometimes straight, sometimes broken, sometimes..., like that... So we are eternal spirit soul. As soon as we come in contact with māyā, by agitation of the mind we assume different forms of life—and suffer. Hañā māyāra dāsa kari' nānā abhilāṣa. And that abhilāṣa is the agitation.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ah, in Durban. That was failure. The Indians haven't got any position still.

Jayatīrtha: None.

Prabhupāda: None. So that twenty years, failure, and here also he started that nonviolence-thirty years. In 1917 he came here from Africa, and the nonviolent, noncooperation... Actually the Hitler's war in 1947 helped India to become independent, the Hitler's cooperation with Subash Bose, INA. When he organized the soldiers, then Britishers thought, "No more chance." Then they left India. Not for the nonviolence. These are artificial things, in politics nonviolence.

Mahāṁśa: You two were working together?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mahāṁśa: Yourself and Gandhi were together for some time?

Prabhupāda: In the beginning I was, 1920. No, everyone, every young man joined. (someone yelling in background) What is that? So ārati you can join, yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Bali-mardana: Hm. Just to protect them.

Prabhupāda: Because that stool and urine is also useful. Cow is so important. They'll eat and they'll pass stool and urine. That is also important. If they supply milk, it is well, very good. Otherwise the stool and urine is also important. From that point of view we should give protection. So they are doing this cow slaughter business. (aside:) For you. Therefore they are suffering so much. So Kṛṣṇa has given you very nice occupation, translation work, and you are earning your livelihood independently. So do it very nicely. And if there is strain to work, then don't work. We shall pay you for the rent, etc... It doesn't matter. But you must maintain your status of translating work. That is very good. If you can work, you can work. Otherwise don't worry.

Bali-mardana: Just like we were paying Hayagrīva something just to maintain to edit, so he could edit. And if he wants to just translate, then we can...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hayagrīva wife has come? No.

Rāmeśvara: No, she has left.

Prabhupāda: Then what is his maintaining? (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: That is... He is deviating a little.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: He's enjoying a little bit the senses.

Prabhupāda: So that is not very good idea.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Bali-mardana: You always said because you had faith in the words of your Guru Mahārāja, therefore...

Prabhupāda: Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Similar surrender to guru. Yathā deve, as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa—similar to guru—then your life is perfect. Yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante. Then this meaning of the scripture will be revealed automatically. And you are singing daily, guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra nā kariha mane āśā **. Nothing more. Then your life is perfect. This is secret. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra nā kariha mane āśā **. Don't manufacture ideas, rascal. Then it is finished. In material world everyone is a demon-crazy. Everyone is manufacturing ideas. And they are suffering. All rascals, are manufacturing ideas. Kartāham iti manyate. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He's fully under control of the laws of nature and he's thinking, "I am independent. I can manufacture ideas." Āḍhyo 'bhijanavān... That is... Find out this. Āḍhyo 'bhijanavān asmi ko 'nyo 'sti, some like that, in the Sixteenth Chapter. "Demon-crazy." Crazy demons are thinking like that. (chuckles) "I can manufacture something. I am very intelligent. We..."

Hari-śauri: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And on this Kṛṣṇa culture, the India was ruling all over the world. During Parīkṣit Mahārāja time there was only one flag. And now go to the United States organization—simply flag increasing, "United."

Brahmānanda: In Africa they just made a new country. It's the smallest country in the world. It's one little island. Now it's independent country.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. So for the time being let this program. We go to Vṛndāvana and from Vṛndāvana to Bombay, and then we make program there. Is that all right? If possible, invite some ministers.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But if you were to go to Manipur we have to make arrangements.

Prabhupāda: We can go from Bombay. What is the difficulty? From here or Bombay, after all, we have to go by plane, so there is no difficulty. Manipur going, there is no direct plane from Bombay to Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. From Bombay to Calcutta, Calcutta to Imphala, Manipur.

Prabhupāda: So that is not difficult. We can come to Calcutta and go to Calcutta, there. But if you organize Bombay center, recruit scientists, hold meeting, that is very nice proposal. There must be some state, ideal state. Just like the Russia is Communist state, and they're making nice propaganda, similarly we must have a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. What do you think?

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: We also resolved what Tamāla Kṛṣṇa just said, our schedule. So that we don't meet overlong, we resolved that we should finish our meetings by the third of March. President's meeting on the morning of the fourth. The GBC final meeting on the afternoon of the fourth. Then other meetings scheduled were that in the evening of the fourth there should be a meeting of all the sannyāsīs, including, of course, the GBC sannyāsīs.

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is the resolution of the sannyāsī meeting?

Satsvarūpa: Well, the purpose would be that everyone actually take out an assignment that he will take for the year, not that independently a sannyāsī...

Prabhupāda: No, sannyāsīs... GBC as a body, they should give direction to the sannyāsīs.

Satsvarūpa: At a sannyāsī meeting?

Prabhupāda: What is the use of meeting? There are so many sannyāsīs in the GBC. So that is sufficient. Mostly they are sannyāsīs. So whatever they have decided, that should be carried by other sannyāsīs. What is the wrong?

Satsvarūpa: No, not these resolutions.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He told me that he was frustrated. That's why he gave it up. When he was in New York he told me that had become discouraged.

Prabhupāda: So if Bhagavān and he does not agree, then he should be given better place that both husband and wife, they can go on with the translation work. It is not that he has to remain under the control of Bhagavān. That is not necessary. Let him translate independently, and wherever he likes, he can remain. What do you think?

Hṛdayānanda: He is not so much a translator.

Rāmeśvara: His wife.

Prabhupāda: You see, nobody is translator. We have to accept whatever is offered. Kānā māmā (blind uncle). Without māmā, better a blind māmā. That's all. That is our policy. So to remain without māmā is not very good choice. Must have a māmā. Never mind he is blind. That is our policy. So now we are without māmā. Who is translating now?

Hṛdayānanda: The main translator, the most important translator is still working with Bhagavān, so the translating is going on.

Prabhupāda: Going on.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to develop this, an ideal farming. If you...

Haṁsadūta: I'm just a little hesitant, because I thought Mahāṁśa will be a little upset maybe.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Haṁsadūta: I don't...

Rāmeśvara: He wants to be a little independent. He wants to be in charge by himself.

Hṛdayānanda: But it was mentioned that he is not very competent.

Brahmānanda: Haṁsadūta Mahārāja planned(?) that there's much debt in the Hyderabad temple. They owe one lakh of rupees.

Rāmeśvara: They owe Prabhupāda five lakhs.

Brahmānanda: Well, just on rations they owe one lakh.

Pañcadraviḍa: One lakh on rice.

Haṁsadūta: The whole situation is very deteriorated.

Prabhupāda: So why he does not come?

Haṁsadūta: Both with money and men. His best men all want to leave. His staunchest support, they have all become just completely discouraged. They want to go away.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Haṁsadūta: They all want to go, his men. And the temple is very badly in debt, and it has not had a proper president for a very long time.

Prabhupāda: This cannot be.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is that intellectual?

Girirāja: I think the idea is that if everything is just coming from matter and there's no God, then there's no rules and regulations to restrict the sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to die—you die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? (break) What is the situation of the tenants?

Girirāja: Um... Well, nobody is immediately planning to vacate, and the hopes of the cases is always delayed. Actually the lawyer says that the court is dealing with cases before 1973. Actually the judicial system is very bad.

Prabhupāda: Very bad.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bombay is good place for propaganda, for making any movement popular.

Girirāja: Yes. People are very modern and advanced. In Delhi they're all...

Prabhupāda: Servant of.

Girirāja: Too much afraid of the government.

Prabhupāda: Servant class. They are not independent. (break) So I am very seriously thinking about organizing your institute. So how much hopeful it is?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How much hopeful? I think there's a great potential. It is a great future, and I can see that if we start publishing the first journal, volume, then it's going to attract many people from the academic circles and intellectual surroundings, and in some time I can see there will be a whole new field of preaching in the academic circles all over the world, not only in India and United States, Canada, but Europe. Europe is going to be observe better centers along these lines. In fact, there are some very leading men in Cambridge and Oxford going to open the whole...

Prabhupāda: So arrange for that, what to do, immediately.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All Indian scientists should join.

Dr. Sharma: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That I want. To keep people in darkness is not science. They are keeping people in darkness. They do not know how nature is working, how they are subjugated to the laws of nature and trying to be independent.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

Keeping people in darkness in the name of science, now it should be stopped. That is my humble humble opinion. So your pandals...?

Girirāja: It's going on. People are still coming and... Did you see the press reports?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We showed one this morning mentioning that the member of parliament had made a statement.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: English.

Dr. Sharma: I was going to bring to your kind notice, ever since we become independent, our moral fiber is really breaking down. We are spiritually, I think, the..., the deterioration has been very fast after 1947. Somehow this is...

Prabhupāda: This is our so-called leaders misled them. Even Gandhi misled. That Vinobha Bhave is misleading, what to speak of others.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially now, anyway, if we do this tīrtha traveling, then it will be difficult. That will be very nice. I think that I can start to make up an itinerary, that... There is a couple of devotees who have traveled a lot.

Prabhupāda: Now you try to manage the whole world organization and all GBC men. Suppose I am not there. Manage very nicely. Independently. Not to create havoc. But really to manage. I am still present; I will give you direction. Don't spoil it. We are in very good, prestigious position. That is sure. Don't spoil it. So much hard labor. I started with very humble condition. Now it has come to this, such exalted position. You don't spoil it. That is my request. Increase. That will depend on your character, behavior, preaching. Everyone knows. Everyone is astonished. Without any help, I started. Only asset was sincere... Everyone knows it. Otherwise how it is possible?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is our duty as your disciples to preserve everything that you've done. (someone brings in some prasādam—some Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: Nim is good.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yeah, he said that.

Prabhupāda: "Whatever he says, everyone believes."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact. But Girirāja's point is well taken, that these other gurus, they may say that they have disciples, but their disciples are all independent.

Prabhupāda: Not disciples. They are masters.

Girirāja: Right. that's right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Guru is a pet, you always say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "They keep a pet dog. Their guru is keeping a pet dog."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Swami Cinmayananda's like that.

Girirāja: They all are. This... When I was at Poona, so I was meeting this man, Mr. Trelaskar. So the next house is very wealthy widow, very wealthy widow, Sindhi lady, and one of the big gurus of Poona, this Baswami, Sadhu Baswami, so he comes and spends time at her house. It's really bad. And then here at... This morning on the beach, I went to chant my rounds. So there's another big swami, Swami Muktananda, and he was sitting on the beach. Some followers were there. And he's also staying with some, you know, rich disciple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Female.

Girirāja: Probably. I didn't know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very popular in America.

Prabhupāda: Muktananda? Hm.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: Common sense is not common. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. Even they have no common sense... Just like sarva-dughā, what is called, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From earth, so many things are coming. The grass is coming, the tree is coming, and animals, they eat grass, they are coming, the human... Everything is coming. So Kṛṣṇa says that the material nature is the mother, because mother is giving birth. So the child is there, the mother is there, and who is the father? You cannot say that without father, a child can be born, or the mother can independently give birth to any offspring. That is not possible. So so many living entities are coming from the material nature, and the offsprings are there. Then who is the father? And the father is there. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). "I am." So no sane man can deny existence of God. That is not possible. As soon as you deny the existence of God, means you are insane. You require treatment. There is no doubt. This is common sense. So many lives are coming from the earth. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Either earth, water, air, there is life. They are coming. And the children are there, mother is there. Should we not inquire who is the father? If you say without father they have come, that is foolishness, madness. Immediately, he's mad. So you cannot deny the existence. If you deny, then you are mad. That is the sign of insanity. They require treatment. That is explained in one Bengali poetry.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But what is published, that is already damage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they will retract it.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they asked you, "your city," "his city," "will build a center, fantastic..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, no one's going to give it any credence.

Prabhupāda: It is most objectionable article. So you are doing things very, full independently. This is not very good. The impression will be that "Surabhī Swami has come to construct this city. He is cheating," like that, as if everything doing, you are the all and all. That's... No other. And "the temple will be Kṛṣṇa." Just show him, "the temple of Kṛṣṇa." You do not know what is, the temple will be? Clearly mentioned. They have also manufactured? They have manufactured? What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The center of the planetarium will be the temple of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Just see. It is their manufacture?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The planetarium and temple alone will be estimated to cost rupees seventy crores."

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But it is not going to be Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everything is spoiled. They have given so much coverage, and everything has been farce. Because, don't mind, you wanted to become famous—that is the intention-therefore it has become a farce. The inner intention was that you want to be famous. Frankly. Therefore it has become farce. Everything ludicrous, farce. And "In three years they will build this temple and, and..." You have read that article?

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: Now immediately a vote should be formed. You cannot do independently. That will not be allowed, anything. In Bengali there is a word, pañce mili kare kārya, hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa(?): "If you do something, combined together, five men, then whether you are defeated or you are victorious, there is nothing to be shameful." Hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa. So you are doing everything independent. We do not like to interfere with your business. You become angry. So that should be stopped. You cannot be allowed. You'll be (indistinct). It has no meaning. (pause) What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a... I don't know if... You gave this to the press? This was given to the press. "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. ISKCON Candrodaya City at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur."

Prabhupāda: What is this? Not from our letter given?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "The birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the district Nadia, prepared under the direction of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and by his disciples, His Holiness Surabhīr Abhipālayantam Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur Project architect and director of construction; His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur project president and Governing Body Commissioner; Śrī Patita Pāvana dāsa Brahmacārī, Bhakti Śāstrī, ISKCON Māyāpur; and the editors of Back to Godhead magazine, ISKCON Press, Los Angeles, California."

Prabhupāda: Perfect article.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you form immediately joint committee. You cannot do independently. That is not possible. Whatever is done is done. Now, henceforward, you should be guarded. You, you published that article?

Patita-pāvana: What is that?

Prabhupāda: The Times of India?

Patita-pāvana: Pardon me, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You published that article?

Patita-pāvana: The types?

Prabhupāda: Times of India.

Patita-pāvana: This?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Patita-pāvana: Well, we went down there together and were interviewed by a...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Patita-pāvana: We went down together. We were interviewed by the reporter there.

Prabhupāda: So what kind of interview, that Saurabha is everything? Architect? Architect is everything?

Patita-pāvana: This is a great mistake.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Patita-pāvana: We could also have them write some article. I know the chief reporter there.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say you have done independently, whimsically. This is... This is to be stopped. You are acting too independent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'd just like a point of clarification, 'cause I don't understand. What exactly is your engagement? I see that you're traveling all over India. What exactly are you going...? Has Prabhupāda told you to travel like this continuously, all over...?

Patita-pāvana: No, he told me to go South India and find some paṇḍitas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And now you're planning to go to Delhi.

Patita-pāvana: No, no, Surabhī Mahārāja has asked me to do some press releases for the newspapers.

Prabhupāda: So Surabhī Mahārāja has asked. So you are conducted by Surabhī Mahārāja.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, Prabhupāda. At least I'm trying. If I have acted untimely, I...

Prabhupāda: And this is the result. This is the result, this disastrous article. You do independently when you like under the direction of Surabhī Mahārāja and create disaster.

Patita-pāvana: Well, he asked me to go down there. (break) (end)

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, he was very sorry. At the last stage he was disgusted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that... That doesn't mean that your disciples should think also, "I will remain aloof just as our Prabhupāda..."

Prabhupāda: No, that I have not said. Therefore I used so strong word on the, our Surabhī's action. This was made independently. He has written. He has given photograph. That is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I took that as a good instruction to all of us, your rebuking.

Prabhupāda: I told him that "You cannot do so independent. You are doing nice, but not to do in the... You admit." People complained against Haṁsadūta. Did you know that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm not sure of the particular incidences, but I've heard general...

Prabhupāda: In Germany. In Germany.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The devotees there.

Prabhupāda: So many complaints.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore change is good.

Prabhupāda: No, you become guru, but you must be qualified first of all. Then you become.

Conversation with Tamala Krsna about Yadubara -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yadubara... There's one letter from Yadubara Prabhu. Actually he was hoping to get to see you.

Prabhupāda: Hm? What shall I advise? I have no experience about this. You do. But this scientific film should not be done independently.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His reason for coming to India this time was to give you that film and to now make a film about India. He proposes to travel to holy places and festivals to show people engaged in the nine processes of devotional service. "My first immediate trip," he says, "would be to Trichur, Kerala, to show the Puram Festival, where thousands of people join in a procession through the streets. A Deity of Kṛṣṇa is carried on an elephant. At some of these big festivals there may be many non-Vaiṣṇavas. Is it all right to show these people? Or should we only show Vaiṣṇavas in this movie?"

Prabhupāda: No, no. But what will be the benefit of our taking photograph of other procession? There are so many processions like that. So what will be benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says his general idea is "to present and establish Kṛṣṇa as a factual personality and not just some mythical character." To do this, he wants "to show historical sites of His pastimes combined with paintings to illustrate Kṛṣṇa's birth, His Vṛndāvana, Mathurā and Dvārakā pastimes, speaking Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, and His teachings as given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then we would show His, Kṛṣṇa's, teachings, how Kṛṣṇa's teachings were passed down..."

Prabhupāda: This is good.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And you want cloth. That is primary necessities. So if you become independent about these things, your eighty percent economic problem is solved. So this is a wrong type of civilization only. That Gandhi's program was very nice. We want to revive.

Mr. Dwivedi: No, we... In fact, we have sent our students at Sabarmati Ashram itself, and the person... He is still with us. He's top of the list in the Sabarmati Ashrama, who was doing it.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we can take up this enterprise immediately. Whether we can induce the villagers, neighboring inhabitants, to cooperate? That is wanted. Otherwise what we shall do with this building?

Mr. Dwivedi: Correct.

Prabhupāda: So our Gandhi's program failed because he could not attract the villagers to these activities. Everyone wants some attraction. That we were discussing, rasa, catur-vidhā-rasa, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So we have to educate them to be attracted by the mokṣa-rasa. Then they'll stay. Unless there is rasa... Just like if you put a little sugar, small black ants will come immediately. The rasa is there. Raso vai saḥ. If... If you cannot attract people to some rasa, they'll not stay. Just like these Americans, foreigners, they have tasted little rasa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are sticking. That we have to create. That is bhakti-rasa. So our first beginning is that the villagers may come, we have our temple, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and give them nice prasādam. And then, gradually, they will be attracted to this rasa. So that we want. So if we people cooperate... We have got our program already. The present problem is that they are being attracted with this artha-rasa. There are four kinds of rasa, catur-rasa: dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. So somebody is tasting dharmārtha, ritualistic ceremonies. Somebody is economic development in the cities, artha. Somebody is attracted, sense enjoyment, sex. And somebody, very pure, mokṣa-rasa. Catur-rasa. So in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness all the four rasas are there. Simply we have to present. So that is possible by the bhakti-rasa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam... (SB 7.5.23). So we have to begin. The villagers must come, sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and give them prasādam. If you can bring them, so far money is concerned for giving prasādam, that we shall arrange. Then, gradually, let them be engaged in spinning all their necessities of life, in plowing, in protection of the cows. They get some... We have done it already in foreign countries—enough milk, enough vegetables, enough food grains. They're so happy. They're so happy. This nonsense civilization, attracting to earn money and construct anthill... These skyscraper buildings are as good as the anthill. It has no meaning. But they are constructing. So the change of attraction. Raso vai saḥ. All the rasas, they should be trained up to take it from Kṛṣṇa. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "I have got the rasa from You. I don't want anything more." This is perfection. Otherwise, for these material rasas, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). That I was discussing last night. They have got sex rasa at home. Still, they're going prostitute-hunting. (break) "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got influence over the Muslims. Why don't you stop cow-killing?" And he said, "Oh, how can I stop it? It is their religion."

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then don't continue much. Then it will be spoiled.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Yeah, I'm not doing it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why is he writing at all to Morarji Desai?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. He's in England. He's independent, and I can't...

Prabhupāda: You can... One who... Don't.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "Don't ask Swami..."(?)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not... He shouldn't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. What good is he going to do? Prabhupāda should tell him.

Prabhupāda: Don't become impertinent. Then he will say something. They'll he'll spoil the whole thing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He wrote to him from England. So I'll write to him.

Prabhupāda: Don't make much correspondence. It is courtesy he has replied. That's all.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Pradyumna:

yaṁ sannyāsam iti prāhur

yogaṁ taṁ viddhi pāṇḍava

na hy asannyasta-saṅkalpo

yogī bhavati kaścana

(BG 6.2)

Translation: "What is called renunciation is the same as yoga, or linking oneself with the Supreme, for no one can become a yogi unless he renounces the desire for sense gratification." Purport: "Real sannyāsa-yoga, or bhakti, means that one should know his constitutional position as the living entity and act accordingly. The living entity has no separate, independent identity. He is the marginal energy of the Supreme. When he is entrapped by material energy, he is conditioned. And when he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, or aware of the spiritual energy, then he is in his real and natural state of life. Therefore, when one is in complete knowledge, one ceases all material sense gratification or renounces all kinds of sense gratificatory activities. This is practiced by the yogis who restrain the senses from material attachment, but a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has no opportunity to engage his senses in anything which is not for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is simultaneously a sannyāsī and a yogi. The purpose of knowledge and of restraining the senses, as described in the jñāna and yoga processes, is automatically served in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one is unable to give up the activities of his selfish nature, then jñāna and yoga are of no avail. The real aim is for a living entity to give up all selfish satisfaction and to be prepared to satisfy the Supreme. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person has no desire for any kind of self enjoyment. He is always engaged for the enjoyment of the Supreme. One who has no information of the Supreme must, therefore, be engaged in self-satisfaction because no one can stand on the platform of inactivity. All these purposes are perfectly served by the practice of Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: So if they... Inquire if there is any question.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to adjust things by the external nature. (Hindi) Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya na... (Hindi) Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy.

Sita Ram Singh: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) "I will explain." And "Who cares for you?" (Hindi conversation) Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). (Hindi) Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate. He is a rascal who is thinking, "I am independent," rascal number one. Everyone is thinking, "Ah! I am independent." What is their independence? Hm? (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) (break) (Hindi conversation) We are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. (Hindi) ...compromise and interpretation... (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)

Sita Ram Singh: So all, all over world...

Prabhupāda: All over the world.

Sita Ram Singh: ...you have got this culture.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) They have been described as Hindu, "Hindu Americans." (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)

Indian man (3): No, but is there any facility for getting Indian citizenship?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We don't want citizenship. What they will do with citizen..., Indian citi...?

Indian man (3): Then what is the difficulty?

Prabhupāda: Difficulty is... Let them live here as permanent residents, just like I am American permanent resident. I am not citizen. If I like, I can become citizen. But what is the use of becoming citizen? It is as good as citizen.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Jagadīśa: Here it is clearly mentioned that living entities belong to the superior nature (or energy) of the Supreme Lord. The inferior energy is matter manifested in different elements, namely earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego. Both forms of material nature, namely gross (earth, etc.) and subtle (mind, etc.), are products of the inferior energy. The living entities, who are exploiting these inferior energies for different purposes, are the superior energy of the Supreme Lord, and it is due to this energy that the entire material world functions. The cosmic manifestation has no power to act unless it is moved by the superior energy, the living entity. Energies are always controlled by the energetic, and therefore living entities are always controlled by the Lord—they have no independant existence. They are never equally powerful, as unintelligent men think. The distinction between the living entities and the Lord is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as follows (10.87.30):

aparimitā dhruvās tanubhṛto yadi sarva-gatās

tarhiṁ na śāsyateti niyamo dhruva netarathā

ajani ca yanmayaṁ tad avimucya niyantṛ

bhavet samam anujānatāṁ yad-amataṁ mata-duṣṭatayā

"O Supreme Eternal! If the embodied living entities were eternal and all-pervading like You, then they would not be under Your control. But if the living entities are accepted as minute energies of Your Lordship, then they are at once subject to Your supreme control. Therefore real liberation entails surrender by the living entities to Your control, and that surrender will make them happy. In that constitutional position only can they be controllers. Therefore, men with limited knowledge who advocate the monistic theory that God and the living entities are equal in all respects are actually misleading themselves and others."

The Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa is the only controller, and all living entities are controlled by Him. These living entities are His superior energy because the quality of their existence is one and the same with the Supreme, but they are never equal to the Lord in quantity of power. While exploiting the gross and subtle inferior energy (matter), the superior energy (the living entity) forgets his real spiritual mind and intelligence. This forgetfulness is due to the influence of matter upon the living entity. But when the living entity becomes free from the influence of the illusory material energy, he attains the stage called mukti, or liberation. The false ego, under the influence of material illusion, thinks, "I am matter, and material acquisitions are mine." His actual position is realized when he is liberated from all material ideas, including the conception of his becoming one in all respects with God. Therefore one may conclude that the Gītā confirms the living entity to be only one of the multi-energies of Kṛṣṇa; and when this energy is freed from material contamination, it becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, or liberated. (break)

Dr. Ghosh: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Begin. (Bengali conversation) (break) What is that?

Bhavānanda: Fruit juice and sabji, so much...

Dr. Ghosh: But you'll get your pomegranates? I'll get it.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation)

Dr. Ghosh: How you'll take care of him?

Upendra: Massage. He's cooking.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation) We have got black cows.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It also says, "the Absolute Truth."

Prabhupāda: Hm. So it is there in the dictionary, it is in the Vedas, and practically proved. In the Vedas confirmed, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The Supreme Being is the chief living being. There are so many living beings, but He is the original living being. He is original, eternal substance, and the living beings, the are also eternal, same quality, but He is the Supreme. How He is Supreme? Because He maintains these eternal living beings, and the other living beings, they are maintained by Him. Just like in a family the father is the chief man and he maintains the family, similarly God is the Supreme Being. He maintains all other living beings. Anantyāya. There is no limit. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140). The living beings are... They cannot be counted. At night we see. A small insect, millions of, come. Millions. Similarly everywhere you'll go, you'll find full of living..., jana-kīrṇa, different grades. They're all maintained by God. Therefore He's called chief living being. Quality, the same. He's living being; we are living being. Whatever propensities He has got, we have got. But we are not independent. We are dependent on Him. This position has to be clearly understood. Then we have to surrender to Him to fulfill our desires, and that is bhakti-mārga. Is that clear? Same thing write. There is no other way.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is very serious situation. Rāmeśvara is in direct...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think they're working too independently without consulting properly.

Yaśodā-nandana: Sometimes they appeal that "We can make better English," so they change like that, just like in the case of Īśopaniṣad. There are over a hundred changes. So where is the need? Your words are sufficient. The potency is there. When they change, it is something else.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's actually a very dangerous mentality.

Yaśodā-nandana: What is it going to be in five years? It's going to be a different book.

Prabhupāda: So you... What you are going... It is very serious situation. You write one letter that "Why you have made so many changes?" And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarūpa that "This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim." The next printing should be again to the original way.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In this age Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made everything very simplified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi, brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these pāpīs and tāpīs. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). I have now explained how Kṛṣṇa became subordinate to devotee. (turns on dictaphone, plays back from tape:) "Yamarāja, controller of all living entities, is afraid of the order of Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is afraid of mother's stick. This contradictory thing cannot be understood by one who is not devotee. Devotee can understand how much powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, so much so He can be controlled by such devotee. Bhṛtya-vaśyata. That means under the control of the servant, but He is under the control of pure love by the servant. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, we see, Kṛṣṇa became the chariot driver of Arjuna. Arjuna is ordering Him, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta (BG 1.21). Here Kṛṣṇa has agreed... (break) '...my chariot...' (break) '...to execute my order. Place my chariot between the two party soldiers.' Kṛṣṇa immediately executed his order. One may argue in this connection that Kṛṣṇa is also not independent. This is ajñāna, ignorance. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. When He becomes subordinate to the devotees He is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Humor of transcendental qualities increases transcendental pleasure. One who worships Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore sometimes desires to be controlled by somebody controller. Nobody else... (break) ...pure devotee." (end of tape playback section) Everyone worships Him as the Supreme, but sometimes He desires, "Somebody will control over."

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today? Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2).

Prabhupāda: No, no. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam, kṛṣṇa-sampraśno yenātmā suprasīdati (SB 1.2.5). Happiness is there. Unless you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no question of... This is a false happiness, that "If I get money, I'll be happy." That is false. So many men, they have got money. We see practically. The whole European civilization, American civilization, is based on this fundamental idea that "Let us have money and we shall be happy." And nobody is happy. Nobody is happy, a single man. Very big, big buildings, very nice car, very nice road, but there is no question of happiness. Always restlessness. Is it not? They are practically proved. And becoming implicated, karma-bandha, loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9), one after another, one after another. Because he is not independent, he is under karma-bandhana. If you touch fire, it must burn you. You cannot avoid it. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sar... (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha. Are you independent? Suppose if you touch fire, are you independent that your finger will not burn? It must burn. So you'll search after so much so-called happiness—they're simply burning their finger, that's all. Karma-bandhanaḥ. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). So I'm insisting you about this distribution of the book. That is a service. If you can do some pushing on these books some way or other, you get material profit; at the same time, it is service.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I bring it? (break) They sent also... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they want people join together and protest. And what is the response from Caitanya Maṭha? And that Surendranath Das is with Caitanya Maṭha, or he's doing something independently? A remark by such a great officer, I.D., is not to be neglected.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm thinking to send a copy of the letter direct to Māyāpur and another one through Calcutta, just in case there's some...

Prabhupāda: Do the needful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you want me to go to Delhi, or should I wait until Bhakti-caitanya comes with Mr. Nai on Thursday?

Prabhupāda: No, here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today's Tuesday. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...gṛhastha life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura independently... Or I was also gṛhastha. Our aim was different. But this neophyte, if they remain aloof from temple connection without attending the function, gradually they will be lost.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the reason that I suggested to Abhirāma Prabhu that he should make his business in Bombay. Actually the gṛhasthas have no desire to live independent of the temples. Just like Mādhavānanda, he's got an apartment now just near the temple so that he can attend maṅgala-ārati and the other functions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless these things are continued, the karmīs' poison will spoil them. He can do independent business; there is no harm. But must be connected with the devotional service.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Just like Abhirāma constructed that house. That's all right. He is within the campus. There is no harm. And now if he goes away after so much training, advancement, if they are lost, then that's a great loss for the Society. With such... With great difficulty we make one Vaiṣṇava. And again, if he goes like Śyāmasundara, then it is great loss. The whole idea is to give up attachment for material world and increase attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Now, according to one's position, gradually... But this is the aim. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Nivṛtti.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then Bombay is better place than Bangalore.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He admits it's a better place. No, he can be encouraged very easily to go to Bombay. I mean, generally, throughout our Society, I don't think the trend of the gṛhasthas is to move away from temples and live independently. If they live independently from the temple, it's in close...

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is chance, I said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The karmīs' association is very contaminous. Asat-saṅgī. So for him the best thing will be to take a room in Bombay. Let him do business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm sure now that... I'll convey all...

Prabhupāda: Gṛhastha should not be dependent on Society. At the same time, he should not be independent of the Society. (laughs) This is the position. Because Society cannot take charge of a family. There will be so many number of families. How it is possible? At the same time, if they remain independently of the Society, without touch, then the karmīs' poison will infect.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, in a place like Bombay where we have so many buildings, in the temple. But sometimes... Just like in America, if there's only one building with only...

Prabhupāda: No, America also... Just like Los Angeles we have got.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's different. There there are apartments.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, you have to arrange like that. They should not live completely independent. That will be future danger.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It has to be a community of devotees.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious ideal gṛhasthas. That we want. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. There are many. I was gṛhastha. There was Deity worship, everything nice. I was publishing Back to Godhead from gṛhastha. So aim was there. But I could not leave family life for some circumstances. That is a different thing. Must be in touch with the devotional service as in the temple. If live nearby temple, it is easier, or in the temple. But aloof, that is dangerous.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So how can that be in the same building as the brahmacārī ashram?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, so many other gṛhastha tenants.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's in, like, Hare Kṛṣṇa Land in Bombay. But supposing in a...

Prabhupāda: That you cannot check. Gṛhastha means they must have sex. But they're living independent, separately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's in Hare Kṛṣṇa Land.

Prabhupāda: No, anywhere. If they are doing independent business, let them do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So in the New York...

Prabhupāda: Karmīs' concession, sex.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the New York they can live families together? In that building, families can live together and have sex life?

Prabhupāda: What is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that building. It's all right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? In a building there are so many different types of men. In a big building, apartment building, you cannot expect all of them of the same class.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that's a great loss.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because if husband and wife live together in the temple itself, where there are so many brahmacārīs and... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...he makes love with a girl and marries and live at the cost of Society, and that is to be discouraged. If you want to marry, you work independently. Maintain yourself. And whatever you can contribute, do that. That is the... Just like Abhirāma. He's very good. And I don't want to be lost. He constructed that house, I never forbade. And it is in the campus. Let him remain a little separately. It doesn't matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think the main reason he can't live there anymore is that because of doing business he'll not always be able to be in Māyāpur, and he doesn't feel that that house is safe for his wife to live there alone.

Prabhupāda: Why alone? Can live with others.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Other householders there also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Many householders can live there together.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's room on the floor below...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But if there is no alternative, what can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. No, but there is alternative always. There are available rooms and apartments just adjoining the temples.

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right, but he must be connected with temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That's the principle. Under no circumstance should anybody be independent.

Prabhupāda: Upendra is here?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you have corrected that paste?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: It has become soft?

Upendra: Yes, it's very soft and moist.

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who is he?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Ikṣvāku? He's a German devotee who has been living in Kodaykanal with Dr. Ghosh. He's a little crazy.

Abhirāma: Independent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very independent. I'm speculating. I'm going to have to investigate, but perhaps after coming here he sent Dr. Ghosh a telegram saying that your condition is very critical and that he should come. Because otherwise there's no possible way I could think of that Dr. Ghosh would have come here, no way. We have no communica... I would never communicate. We already had our business with him four or five months ago. We already rejected him.

Kīrtanānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's Kīrtanānanda. It seems that someone has to be in charge of your care. One day it's this allopath, one day this quack, that quack. That's not good. I'd like to see you ask one of us... I'll be glad to do it. Anyone... Take charge of your care, and we can do the best we can. But just one thing, one thing...

Prabhupāda: But we have already asked Dr. Ghosh of Allahabad, but he has not come.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, he is the head office man?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So he's agreeing to do everything. They have to do everything. They're just workers for the head office. They cannot act independently of the head office. They have to carry out the orders of the head office.

Prabhupāda: So you saw the massaging?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. How are you feeling after it?

Prabhupāda: Good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think massage is good. It will keep your body a little bit loosened and...

Prabhupāda: So where they have gone?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's supposed to be coming back. I do not know if he's gone with Bhagatji, but he said that he'd be coming back in a short time. I think that this program of massaging and also using your brain for translating little bit...

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that is also very important.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is my desire also.

Viśvambhara: Will Kṛṣṇa not fulfill your desire?

Prabhupāda: Oh, Kṛṣṇa is independent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've always stated in your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Kṛṣṇa likes too much to fulfill the desire of His pure devotee. He uses His independence to fulfill the desire of His devotee.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) My will said. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). What is the karma-phala? (Hindi) Yas tv indra-gopam athavendram aho...

Viśvambhara: Prabhupāda is saying if one is ordered to hang, how can he say... I say, I tell Prabhupāda, "President has got these special powers."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did Prabhupāda say?

Viśvambhara: What, yes?(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to hear Girirāja's prayer?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the key note. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science; on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme by discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of Biochemistry of the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There was intricate features of life, ranging from the structures of molecules and living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics cannot account for these phenomena, and life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy. Mr. Cohen said that the proof of Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed, one into another, through many small changes or mutations. 'Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. 'In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supporting the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the present of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science.' All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life, and they also corroborate the systemic description of the nature of life given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Prabhupāda: Hm. A good article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think they gave a very full coverage.

Prabhupāda: And very scientifically presented. And Bhaktivedanta Institute is advertised.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Free of charge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is a good article.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayādvaita: "The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957, but his challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' At a three-day international conference on life comes from life at Vṛndāvana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the keynote. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Sing, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from the USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of a materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme of a discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermo-dynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of biochemistry at the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There were intricate features of life ranging from the structure of molecules in living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics 'cannot account for these phenomena,' and 'life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy.' Mr. Cohen said that 'Proof of the Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed one into another through many small changes, mutations. Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supported the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the presence of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science. All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life and they also corroborate the systematic description of the nature of life given in Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Prabhupāda: How do you like article?

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing. Hm?

Guest (2): Jaya.

Prabhupāda: The importance of Bhaktivedanta Institute is there, not that theory molecule. Come on. We are challenging. Discuss like scientist, not like sentimentalists.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...(indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. He should not have come in touch, in the material qualities. And in Prema-vivarta it is said,

kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare

nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare

So as soon as he forgets Kṛṣṇa and wants to enjoy life independently, that is guṇa-saṅga and falls down. It is falldown, this guṇa-saṅga. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte... (BG 13.22). What is that verse?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You know the verse?

Śatadhanya: Which one?

Prabhupāda: You can find out.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's from the Gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Guṇa, guṇa.

Prabhupāda: Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte tad-guṇān (BG 13.22).

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do you think I am able to do that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'm encouraging you. I don't know if you can do it.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Now I cannot sit up independently.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Of course, that's a big step to take, but there's things like turning over in bed on one's own. I mean the point is one should not have to force oneself to do this, but those will be the signs of actual improvement.

Bhavānanda: But that will only come from renewal of strength. And renewal of strength will only come from appetite, when you start eating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's not artificial.

Prabhupāda: Eating only juice.