Prabhupāda: Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that simply by the saṅkīrtana movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything. So the priest class brāhmaṇas they became very much dissatisfied that "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others..." Because according to Hindu society, except the brāhmaṇas... Especially in those days, only the brāhmaṇas were considered the highest in the society, and even the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they all calculated to, in the group of śūdras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone, the Muhammadans, the śūdras, the low class, the high class, the brāhmaṇas... He was amalgamating everyone. So these brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "He is making a disastrous movement! The prestige of the brāhmaṇas will go."
In those days (Conv. and Letters)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So students came and saw Lord Caitanya was chanting "Gopī gopī," so they objected. They said, "Oh, why You are chanting 'gopī gopī'? Why should You not chant 'Kṛṣṇa'? 'Hare Kṛṣṇa'?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in His ecstasy because He was... In the beginning, His appearance is in the form of gopī, to love Kṛṣṇa. So He became very much angry, and because they were students, He wanted to chastise them. He took a stick. "You nonsense! What you are speaking? Go away!" So they fled away, but after that they organized. "Oh, how is that? Caitanya, He is... How He has become so big that He wants to beat us?" In this way they practically they were talking ill of Him. So He decided that "If I remain a householder, these people will not honor Me." Because in those days a sannyāsī was honored in the society very much. If a sannyāsī comes to your village or to a householder's house it was very... Still it is going on, although not so widely. But still 80% of the population in India, if they find out a sannyāsī they give all honor. So He decided that "Now I shall become a sannyāsī."
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya also visited. Anyone in those days going to Jagannātha Purī from Bengal they had to pass that way. And on the way the Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha temple is there. So everyone used to visit. So formerly Madhavendra Purī, he also visited, and for him the Deity stole the condensed milk. From that time He's known as Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. That story was narrated to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So while sitting before the Deity, the story was narrated and Caitanya Mahāprabhu relished it that God is so kind that sometimes He steals for His devotee. This is the significance of this. So here the scene should be arranged that very nice temple, the Deity within, and Lord Caitanya entered while chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and saw the worship, ārātrika. These things are to be shown in this scene. And a little story about Him, that's all.
Hayagrīva: Yes. You see the first two acts there was a lot of action. Now we're in the third act and we have two scenes of description. Now they can be two short scenes of description. That will be all right, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: So what is the story? A short little story?
Prabhupāda: The short story is that there was two brāhmaṇas. Two brāhmaṇas. One young brāhmaṇa, one old brāhmaṇa. They went to Vṛndāvana to see Gopāla, and the old brāhmaṇa was so obliged to the young brāhmaṇa, he promised to hand over his youngest daughter to the young brāhmaṇa. But when he came back home his eldest son objected. So he kept mum. Then when the young brāhmaṇa, I mean to say, reminded him that "You promised before Gopāla to hand over your daughter. Now you are silent. What is this?" So his eldest son said, "Well, if Gopāla comes to give witness that my father promised before Him then my sister can be married with you." So he went back to Vṛndāvana and requested Gopāla to come and give witness. So He came and the marriage ceremony was performed. This is the sum and substance of the story. And since then Gopāla did not... Gopāla means statue. So in those days there was no transport service. And when Gopāla was present everyone became struck with wonder that "Oh, such a devotee that Gopāla has come from Vṛndāvana to Orissa, more than 1,500 miles." So the king of that place constructed a very nice temple and since then that temple is known as witness Gopāla. Sākṣi-gopāla means witness. So this story can be shortly described and chanted with music and the scene of the temple will be seen, Caitanya Mahāprabhu dancing. Our real purpose will be the dancing and singing and little description.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Viṣṇujana: Would you like a plate, Swamiji?
Prabhupāda: No, no. A sannyāsī should always take in his hand. That is the system. Not in a plate. That means if you take in a plate, you'll take much. (laughter) So in hand, he cannot take much. Kara-pātrī. That is the instruction. But in this age such strict laws cannot be followed. The Bhāgavata says that when there is flat grass cushion, why should you ask for bedding? When you have got natural pillow, this hand, why you ask for a pillow? Then when there is river, so much water, why do you stock water? When there are fruits in the tree, why do you go and beg? When there is cave, why you are searching after apartment? (laughs) When the old garments are thrown in the street, then why you are searching after clothing? These are the instructions. Completely free. Kasmād bhajanti kavayo dhana-durmadandhān (SB 2.2.5). Why should you go and flatter these monied men? That is complete independence. But those days are now gone. (laughs) It is a different age. Los Angeles, I think it is a good place. Hm? What is your...? Your problem solved?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good news. We went to the Hollywood police station and the man told us that part of the duty of the police station is to... He said he should protect religious people like us.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then the analogy and metaphor should be like that. Nothing should be twice repeated. So there is Sāhitya-ratna in Sanskrit, Sāhitya-ratna. Caitanya Mahāprabhu defeated one great scholar simply by little mistake. Yes. Keśava Kāśmīrī. Keśava Kāśmīrī was great scholar, and Sanskrit great scholar means he must fluently speak in Sanskrit verses everything.
Allen Ginsberg: Everything he says must be done in perfect Sanskrit verses?
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Yes. That is Sanskrit scholar. Not in prose. He'll go on composing verses. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu at that time was sixteen years old boy, but He was very learned logician. So the Keśava Kāśmīrī, he was traveling all over India by, I mean to say, competing other paṇḍitas, other learned scholars. So he, everywhere he was victorious. So he came to Navadvīpa. And in those days Navadvīpa and Benares and Udipi and Kashmir, four, five places, were very scholarly.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...first speak in detail about Ṭhākura Haridāsa's disappearance. So tell me maybe how you want it to be performed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ṭhākura Haridāsa was living in a cottage which was... Just like I am living here, and the garage site a little far off, Haridāsa was living a little distance. So when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go to the sea for taking bath, He every day, every morning He used to go to Haridāsa Ṭhākura and taking his informa..., "Haridāsa, what you are doing?" Because Haridāsa was Mohammedan by birth, so out of his meekness he did not go to the temple. But in those... Especially in those days they were very strict. They do not allow anyone except Hindus to enter the temple. Nowadays, of course, there is law. If somebody is, actually has come to the Hindu way of life, he's allowed. Our Jayagovinda and others were allowed to see Jagannātha temple. But in those days there were no such system and Haridāsa out of his own accord, he did not want to disturb But Lord Caitanya, God Himself, used to come to see him every day. So one day when Caitanya came, he looked little bit depressed. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "Haridāsa, you do not look very well today. What is the matter?" "Sir, I'm not very feeling well. And because I do not feel well, I could not finished my chanting." He was chanting daily 300,000 times. "So I could not finish my chanting." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All right. You are growing old. You may not follow the rules now strictly. You can make it later." Haridāsa Ṭhākura said, "No, Sir, so long my life is there I shall try to follow. When the life is over, that is different thing. But I have got one desire if You fulfill." "What is that?" "Now I can understand that You will also leave this world very soon. So I cannot tolerate that. So best thing is that before You'll go, I go. And my another request is that You shall stand before me, and I shall leave this body." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Oh, if that is your desire, that will be all right. That is not difficult." So next day, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu came, Haridāsa Ṭhākura said, "Sir, today I wish to leave. So You please stand before me." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also could understand that he's leaving. So He asked His devotees to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and in the presence of Caitanya Mahāprabhu he left. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu took this body, and Himself He went... He carried the body. He was very stout and strong. And He was dancing and... Then He went to the seaside, and He bathed the body, and in His own hands He buried Caitanya, uh, Haridāsa Ṭhākura's body within the sand. So that burial place is still there in Purī, Haridāsa Ṭhākura's samādhi. Then He personally went to the shopkeepers and begged prasādam. "You give Me some prasādam." All people gave Him so many things. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was so well-known. So He asked all the devotees to take prasādam after the burial ceremony was over. In this way Haridāsa Ṭhākura's... Niryāna. This is called departure of Haridāsa Ṭhākura. That is stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Tiṣṭhāmi. That's it. Therefore a devotee's position is sublime. Kṛṣṇa comes as a devotee also. Actually this happened. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he happened to be a Mohammedan, Lord Caitanya's devotee. So in those days, five hundred years ago, there was some Hindu-Muslim... Still that is going on. So he did not enter Jagannātha temple to create some disturbance. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also did not ask him that "You go to Jagannātha temple. Who can check you?" Of course, if Caitanya Mahāprabhu had ordered, he would have gone. Neither he wanted to go, neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You must go." Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come to him. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. This is the practical. He came to the devotee where he was chanting. So instead of approaching God, if you chant, God will approach you. That is a fact, we see. Instead of Haridāsa Ṭhākura going to Jagannātha, Jagannātha Himself was coming to him. Every day Lord Caitanya would come and ask and sit down, "How you are feeling? What you are doing?" Then He would go to take bath in Samudra. Daily. It was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... And when Haridāsa Ṭhākura expired, He personally took the body and cremated on the bank of the Samudra and he performed the funeral ceremony. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was so... And he was given the title nāmācārya, "authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." Very nice that you are cultivating this knowledge. It is very nice. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). This cultivation of spiritual knowledge means perfection of life. But people do not try for it. Therefore Gītā says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many thousands of men, one may try to cultivate knowledge for spiritual advancement." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ: (BG 7.3) "Out of many such persons who are cultivating spiritual knowledge, hardly one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa."
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has started in the United States. Why did it start in the United States, rather than India?
Prabhupāda: Because the United States, they are our best customer. A businessman goes to a place... Just like you have come here. Why you have come here? Wherever there is best possibility of doing your business, there you must go. I went to United States because I know these people are not poverty-stricken. And our Indian people, they are now, they have been trained to think like that—they are poverty-stricken. Actually, they are not poverty-stricken, but the leaders have educated them that, "You are all poverty-stricken." This is India's position. So far I knew that it would not be successful in India. The government will not help. The public is educated in a different way. They are after technology. So and "familiarity breeds contempt." They say, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? It is known to us since a long time. What effect it will have?" Many Indian students in foreign countries, they say, "Swamiji, what will this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement benefit us? We want technology." So that is the mentality of the Indians at the present moment. They have lost everything and therefore they are beggars. They have lost their own culture and therefore they are beggars. So I thought it wise that I shall go to a country where there is no poverty. They will learn. They have enough. For material enjoyment, they have got enough. The material enjoyment means money and woman. That is, in America, it is lying on the street. As much as you like, you can take. But they are disgusted with this material enjoyment. Therefore they are coming as hippies. They are coming from very rich family. Their fathers, their grandfathers, are very rich. At least they belong to the richest nation. But they are not satisfied. They are not satisfied. That is the natural sequence. The Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one has satisfied his senses sufficiently, he is no longer interested in sense gratification. Perhaps you know C.R. Das, the name of C.R. Das in Calcutta. In those days, fifty years ago he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, but he was not satisfied. And one day he and his wife were sitting together and the wife questioned, "Why do you look so morose? You have got everything at your command. Everyone respects you. You have got money. Everything you have got, education, popularity. Still, why you are unhappy?" So he simply, by chance he saw one mendicant was passing on the street, a sādhu beggar. So he said, "I want to become like him." He said, "I want to be a mendicant like him." So there are many instances in our history. Just like Bhārata Mahārāja. He was young man, twenty-four years old, and emperor of the whole planet, young wife, king, everything. He left everything.
Prabhupāda: Well, when you take part in politics you have to fight. (laughter) Yes.
Guest (2): I don't mean that. I mean muṣṭi fighting.
Prabhupāda: Well, if required, muṣṭi fight will be there. Arjuna, Arjuna was fighting. He was Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Guest (2): Yes. But what I'm basically asking is what are these kṣatriyas going to fight with?
Prabhupāda: Kṣatriya fought... Why don't you take the case of Arjuna? He was a kṣatriya. He fought for Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): Yes, but in those days, you see, there is some kind of a clear cut...
Prabhupāda: Those days or in these days, the same principles are there. Kṣatriyas should fight for Kṛṣṇa. That is his perfection of life.
Guest (2): Okay. Then the question is whom shall we fight now? Okay, supposing we are all...
Prabhupāda: Those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. Yes.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Calcutta, yes. A very perfect gentleman. Kind-hearted. Sometimes we joked. We were taking this, what is called, peanuts. So the professor was passing. So some of our friends remarked: (Bengali) So he thought that professor did not know Bengali. So immediately he turned: (Bengali). So we became very much ashamed. Yes. So all the professors from foreign countries, they were instructed to learn Bengali language, local language. That was the system. All officers, big officers, educate... (Aside) Good morning. ...big educationists, they were to learn the local language. And they used to learn Bengali. Especially in Calcutta. There was one professor, Mr. Scrimgeour. He was professor of literature, English literature. So while teaching one English literature, he was giving parallel passage from Bankim Candra Chatterjee. Yes. "Your Bankim babu says like this." He used to say like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: That means he studied Bankim literature. Bankim Candra Chatterjee was compared with Sir Walter Scott, of English literary men. Sir Walter Scott. In those days, Charles Dickens.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Charles Dickens?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Sir Walter Scott were known two very great English literary men.
Lord Brockway: Oh, I approve of it very, very strongly. Very strongly. It must be... It must be the basis of all, of all good.
Prabhupāda: No, basis... Now, suppose if a people in general, they are not advanced, by their votes, somebody is elected, he may not be also advanced. That is the defect of democracy. Mass of people, they are not advanced. So simply by their vote, if somebody is elected, then they will have to repent. Just like Nixon. He's elected, but these people are again decrying him, that "No, you are not good." So why do you, did you elect him? You elect, and again you reject. That is the defect of democracy. that people are not advanced. They can commit mistake, elect somebody wrong. And then they will lament. This is the defect. But monarchy, as it was approved by the Vedic culture, the monarchy, if the king is first-class, God conscious... A king should be like that. That is the ideal king. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā: rājarṣi. The king should be just like saintly person, although he's king. Rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. He was rājarṣi. All the kings in those days, they were trained up in such a way that they were saintly persons, although they were the king. Not debauch. So one person, if he's authorized... Just like the communists, they are thinking of dictatorship. This is also another kind of dictatorship. But if the dictator, or the king, is a perfect man, then his dictatorship or royal power is quite... But that, that is not possible at the present moment. But at the present moment, the democracy is also not perfect. Because the mass of people, they have no perfect knowledge. By sentiment. So it may be they're electing a wrong person. That is the defect of democracy.
Prabhupāda: And another place, Bhāgavatam, there is statement of Nārada, advising Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira that yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam. There are symptoms, brāhmaṇa system, śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 18.42). It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam, abhivyañjakaṁ varṇa. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). This is the injunction of Nārada, "The symptoms, brahminical symptoms, if it is found in the person who is born in a śūdra family, he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. And if the śūdra symptoms are visible in a person born in a brāhmaṇa family, he should be accepted as śūdra." And in the Jābāla Upaniṣad, the Satyakāma Jābāla... So Satyakāma was born of a maidservant, but he wanted to become brāhmaṇa. So he went to Gautama Muni: "Sir, make your disciple." In those days, Vaidic brahminical culture, without becoming brāhmaṇa, he cannot be initiated. Initiation means to make one brāhmaṇa. So, according to our Gosvāmī process, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he has given us the book, Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. In that book he has written,
- yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti
- kāṁsyaṁ rasa-vidhānataḥ
- tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena
- dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām
Nṛṇām: "Of all human beings, by initiation, he becomes a dvija." So we follow that principle. And besides that, Caitanya Mahāprabhu ordered that bhārata-bhūmite... You understand little Bengali?
Professor: No, Bengali, no, I don't. But it doesn't matter.
Śyāmasundara: So you had some books...
Prabhupāda: Some books. Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Publish...
Prabhupāda: That intelligence gives me, Kṛṣṇa, "You do this." Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. Yes. And in my materialistic life, He was taking away my intelligence. Just like this Bose, Bengal Chemical agency, I should have accepted immediately. Such a big concern. Simply by sitting, I would have brought ten thousand rupees per month in those days. But there was no good intelligence. I thought, "No, I cannot accept your terms. You must accept..." Because I was at that time young man, puffed-up, no brain, no sober brain. They were so attracted with me. They would have given later on all facilities, but I did not accept. Similarly, Smith Stanstreet, they were also very good company.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I am dependent on Kṛṣṇa. If He allows. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Because we can't come to America to keep your company.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Here is a Pacific Ocean. (break) Sometimes I think "When I was simply depending on Kṛṣṇa, those days... Now I have to depend on so many disciples." (laughter)
Dr. Patel: Through Kṛṣṇa the disciples are the sannyāsīs.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) They are good disciples. They are bringing everything. I am simply ordering. Still, I think, "That was better, to depend on..."
Dr. Patel: What is Māyāvāda, Māyāvāda? This, we do not understand anything. māyā is a fact because it is the power of God, and you have got to work with it. So we are all of us are vādīs. Don't talk all these thing now Swamiji, I am going to fire him.
Prabhupāda: No, why you have become angry?
Dr. Patel: No, I don't become angry, I become violent, not angry.
Mr. Sar: Māyāvādī's name is speaker.
Prabhupāda: That means he is Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: What does that mean? Read it again.
Indians: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes, mām ekam.
Indian man (4): You have come to our narrow path now. When people divide (indistinct). Because those days were different. When people were (indistinct) on stones.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I cannot... A chaste woman, you cannot divide her. She must stick to one husband.
Indian man (4): No, in his time, people were Vaiṣṇavas...
Prabhupāda: You cannot, she cannot say, "I can accept as many husband as required." That is not good.
Dr. Patel: No, he was right up to the end very conscious about this. Because of his Oxfordian education. I think he was in eternal hell, one of these things.(?) (break)
Prabhupāda: England. He was educated in England, but who can become...
Dr. Patel: Absolutely. It was a miracle, the greatest miracle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was... From very beginning of his birth, he is Englishman.
Dr. Patel: He was not allowed to speak Bengali by his parents.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Because in those days... (break)
Dr. Patel: We are forgetting Sanskrit very quickly.
Prabhupāda: No, no, those who are interested...
Dr. Patel: Now the schools, they don't teach as in our times. (break)
Prabhupāda: As soon as the kṣatriyas were negligent, immediately the brāhmaṇas should take step. That was the system. (break) ...offer advice to the kṣatriyas according to śāstra, and kṣatriyas would execute, and the vaiśyas would care for supply. And the śūdras, serving everyone. That's all. This is the system. (break) So he used to manufacture. To manufacture means śūdra.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Nowadays it is very difficult job to get married. (everyone laughs)
Wife: Suitable.
Prabhupāda: Well, suitable cannot be. There is no suitable.
Indian man: Difficult to find.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly, as the girl is grown up, any boy.
Indian man: We used to marry at the age of ten, eleven. That is... Those days have been forty years back.
Prabhupāda: I was also married. My wife was eleven years old.
Indian man: My wife was eleven when she was married. I was only sixteen when I was married. Only a difference of four or five years.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And before that, I heard my father-in-law, he was eleven years old, and my mother-in-law was seven years old. My eldest sister was born at nine years old. And I was born after her marriage.
Indian man: Those old days are finished.
Prabhupāda: All right, thank you.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I remember those days immediately when I see the sea.
Haṁsadūta: You were getting seasick?
Prabhupāda: No, I liked it. Although I was sick, still, I liked it. Day and night, for thirty-five days.
Haṁsadūta: I came to America in the same way, but I was always sick. I didn't like it.
Prabhupāda: The sea journey is very good provided there is no sea-sickness. Otherwise very bad. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma... (break) ...all of our books in different languages. At least all the European languages. America is one language.
Guest (1): They have been steeped in ignorance for such a long time, it will take a long time to bring them into the fold of spiritualism.
Prabhupāda: No, it has been made easy by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That you don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and don't commit sinful life, that's all. And sinful life we have given them, no illicit sex—we don't say, "no sex"—no illicit sex, no illicit sex, no meat eating. Suppose... They are not now eating meat, are they unhealthy? They are known now as bright-faced. So no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, and no gambling. This is avoiding sinful life. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you see the result? Do you see the result? Within four, five years how they have advanced. Not that they're Vedantists or they have studied all the Vedas, not that. Simple thing. Have you ever come here in the evening when they perform ārati, kīrtana? Just see how ecstatic it is. Simple thing. Don't commit sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, bas. You'll become elevated. Jagāi, Mādhāi, they were—in those days, because they were drunkards, women hunters, meat-eaters—they were considered most sinful. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them by this process. There were two Jagāi and Mādhāi and now hundreds and thousands of Jagāis and Mādhāis are becoming purified. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. Everyone wants evidence. Huh? Pāpī-tāpī, all sinful men were delivered simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you may ask what is the evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi, the evidence is here, jagāi mādhāi. So not that Jagāi, Mādhāi five hundred years ago, now see at the present moment. They did not come to me after studying all the Vedas, and Vedantists. They come to me, I ask them that, "Don't commit these sinful activities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."That's all. Everyone can do, even the child can do. So you are all educated men, you study this philosophy, try to understand, also join. It is your duty, because you are Indian. Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted this mission to the Indians.
Ambassador: ...they wouldn't have left easily.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there was no need. Every country requires good government. So if somebody gives good government and keeps the people nice, happy, and people hasn't got any interest that the... Now they have made like that. Formerly, at least in India, they didn't care whether it is being ruled by the Mohammedans or by the Englishmen or foreign... They wanted peaceful life, that's all. So the Mohammedans, they made their home in India, the Moguls. They were not exploiting India and taking the money outside. Although the Moguls were very luxurious, but they were spending money in India, India's money in India. And, of course, they accuse, the Mohammedan government was very bad. But I think if it was so bad, how they could rule over India for eight hundred years? And in those days Indians were in their own culture. They did not lose their culture, Hindu culture. The Britishers peacefully killed the Hindu culture, Vedic culture, yes.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...you meet Bon Mahārāja, and if he talks again time, say, "You were sent in London for establishing a temple, why you could not do it? You remained there for three, four years. And why you were called back by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī? What did you do for the three, four years in spite of full support from Gauḍīya Maṭha?" We were sending seven hundred rupees. In those days seven hundred rupees means nowadays seven thousand. He was squandering the money. "Authority, authority, scholarly, how many books you have published from your institution for the last forty years?" He was in London. In the 1930's he came back. Came back means Guru Mahārāja called him back. Then he separated from Gauḍīya Maṭha, and he tried to start this institution. Sometimes in the 1945, '47..., not '40, '30. And it is '75, clear forty years. So what books you have published? Authority, scholarly, what books you have published? And how many scholars you have produced? Why it is closed now?
Satsvarūpa: He's bluffing.
Prabhupāda: He has simply collected money like anything by this bluff. Now people are asking that. Therefore Dalmia said one of the trustees, "You better give it to Bhaktivedanta Swami." They have seen. They have taken money from them. Or for maintaining the institution he regularly gets money from rich men in Calcutta, Bombay, one thousand, two thousand, 1,500, like that.
Woman reporter: Not in the 1900's. Why do you use the technology that you use? You didn't have cars in those days, this television. Things have changed since 1920.
Prabhupāda: So what change has become? Can you give any evidence that woman is more powerful in brain than the man during these years? Can you give any evidence?
Woman reporter: No, what I'm saying is that...
Prabhupāda: Now, can you give any evidence that woman has become more powerful than the man during these fifty years?
Woman reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Give me some tacit example.
Woman reporter: That she and I wouldn't be here if women weren't more powerful than they were fifty years ago.
Brahmānanda: Family affection is the impetus for economic...
Prabhupāda: Development.
Mr. Surface: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So he is dependent on the family affection. Then economic impetus go on. And I think he has given another proposition that if man can easily live, then he will not work. That is the nature of man. Therefore a rich man's son, he does not work. Because he has father's money, he can spend. In America the boys are rich man's son, and therefore so many boys are not working. They have got easy income, and they are not working. And because there is no proper work, they are becoming hippies. They are manufacturing independence. "Idle brain is a devil's workshop." This human psychology is the same everywhere. In India many rich men's son, until he has spoiled his father's whole money, he is restless. And when he is turned to a beggar, then he is satisfied. I have seen many, spoiling father's money like anything, and the same man, when he is beggar in the street, he feels happy. I shall quote one statement of a very big man, politician, Mr. C.R. Das. So he died in 1925. He was about our father's age. So he was earning in those days fifty thousand rupees per month. Fifty thousand... our rupee or dollar is the same. Although exchange value is different, but the... Locally, the purchasing capacity is the same. So he and his wife were sitting on the corridor, and the wife was talking that "Why you are so morose always? You are earning like anything. You have got respect as political leader. Everyone likes you. You have no want. Why you are sorry? How you can become happy? What is your program?" So on the street one mendicant was going on. He said, "I want to become like that mendicant; then I will be happy." And at last, he became like that. So sometimes one who is possessing more than required, he wants to become a beggar again. So I repeatedly say this to American boys, that "By the grace of God you are very much opulent materially. So if you don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will have to become beggar again because we know these two things: sometimes beggar, sometimes rich; sometimes beggar, rich..." We do not know third way. Renouncing and possessing. But both these two things are wrong because you haven't got anything, so what you can renounce?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He directly said, "I don't care for the Vedas." Lord Buddha says. So who will worship a person who directly says, "I don't care for your Vedas"? Shall you go to worship a Buddhist or Mohammedan? No. This is emergency. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita paśu-ghāṭam. He cannot deride the Vedic principle, but it was necessary at the time. Otherwise these rascals will not stop.
Dr. Patel: Today, sir, the more animals are being killed than what they were killed in those days in the name of religion. Today it is in the name of the civilization
Prabhupāda: Because... No, no. Now there is no religion. "Secular." There is no religion.
Dr. Patel: Don't say no religion. Secularism is irreligious...
Prabhupāda: Secular means no religion.
Prabhupāda: (break) Scientists, do they accept this prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27)?
Dr. Patel: I think many of those wise people do accept. But you have been harsh to all and none, all of them at par. But so many of them are really intelligent people who accept... Because we can't do so many things. Practically nothing we can do. Because we find out something here and there does not mean that we are perfect in knowledge. But the scientists nowadays are different than what the scientists were in those days when you were a student. And you think we are just like that. We are different today. He's a scientist. He will tell you. The scientists do see... Scientists do, does the darśana of God in every part of the science, in every cell of living cell, every atom.
Prabhupāda: No. What was the report?
Brahmānanda: Of the books?
Prabhupāda: No. The report, speak to him, that science...
Brahmānanda: The reporter? Scientist?
Prabhupāda: Scientist.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Dr. Karttika Chandra Bose, he was a very big man. I was, under him, manager of Bose's laboratory. So from the very beginning my father was paying him two rupees fees. But when he became very big, still my father was paying two rupees. He was friend. So he refused to take. "No, no, no, you must be paid something." So he used to accept that two rupees. (break)
Yaśomatīnandana: Two rupees in those days were lot of money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Two rupees, nowadays forty rupees at least. Twenty times. Just like ghee. You can... Ghee or gold. Gold standard. So in our childhood, I have seen our mother used to purchase gold for ornaments-twenty rupees.
Prabhupāda: Hm? We don't say.
Dr. Patel: The Eskimos are not able to do it.
Prabhupāda: No. Civilization means they must live in a nice place like India. That is civilization. The America in those days, they were neglecting. Nobody was living there. Gradually they advanced. Otherwise these tracts of land were rejected.
Dr. Patel: Hm?
Prabhupāda: These tracts of land, North America, that was rejected by the Aryans. They knew it.
Dr. Patel: They say the Mexico was known.
Prabhupāda: Mexico, they are less civilized. They are not Aryans. They are not Aryans.
Dr. Patel: That is patala bhumī.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patala bhumī means just opposite the eastern hemisphere.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that when you were very young you always used to calculate what was the cost of a ticket to Purī.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Every day I was seeing how to go to Jagannātha Purī and how to go to Vṛndāvana. At that time a fare was, for Vṛndāvana, four or five rupees, and similarly for Jagannātha Purī. So I was thinking, "When I shall go?" That's all. I took first opportunity to go to Jagannātha Purī after my examination, and in business connection when I went to Agra, then I first of all took the opportunity to go to Vṛndāvana from Agra. This was in 1925, and I visited Jagannātha Purī sometime in 1920. And '25 I went to Vṛndāvana. I remember, in those days I was sitting within the car, and there was some prasādam. One monkey entered and took away everything.
Hṛdayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that you were not so much impressed by the saintly persons that were coming.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: Why was that?
Prabhupāda: Not all of them were real Vaiṣṇava. That was my discrimination from the beginning of my life. I never liked these bogus swamis and yogis. I never liked. But my father had no discrimination. "Never mind whatever he is. He is a saintly person. Receive him." He was giving fortnightly... There was one Māyāvādī sannyāsī in Kālīghāṭa. So first of all the father was sannyāsī. Then his son was sannyāsī. So we had very good relationship with him. I also used to... Because father was going... So he would carry gāñjā for him—in those days gāñjā was very cheap—so much gāñjā and so much butter. Whenever he would visit, he'd give some red cloth, gāñjā, and butter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your father would give him gāñjā?
Prabhupāda: That, to sannyāsī.
Prabhupāda: Journalists, they write very good English. Every journalist, they learn how to write good English.
Acyutānanda: He got into some big embarrassment. I don't know how. Then he went to the Himalayas.
Prabhupāda: He was in, several times in embarrassment. One friend in Delhi, Mr. Gupta, he told many things about him. He was patronizing him. In those days, when he was not very rich, he had, he gave him 25,000 rupees, that Mr. Gupta. (break) Ācchā?
Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it mentions in The Nectar of Devotion that in the viddhi-mārga there are many things we don't want to do but we must do in order to make advancement.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also modern government, democracy. I do not want to do something, but the Parliament pass the laws. We have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline. Just like C. R. Das. C. R. Das was one of the prominent member of Indian Congress. So he was earning in those days, fifty years ago, fifty thousand rupees per month. It is twenty times now increased. Fifty years before he was...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays ten lakhs per month.
Prabhupāda: And that is the inspiration of my devotional life. Then I asked my father that "Give me Rādhā-Govinda Deity; I shall worship." So my father was also Vaiṣṇava. He gave me small Rādhā-Govinda Deity. I was worshiping in my house. Whatever I was eating, I was offering, and I was following the ceremonies of this Rādhā-Govinda with my small Deity. That Deity is still existing. I have given to my sister. So then I introduced Ratha-yātrā. So I.... My Ratha-yātrā was being performed very gloriously. My father used to spend money. In those days ten rupees, twenty rupees was sufficient. I hired one kīrtana party and a small friends, they..., I think the brother of the present generation, and there was another De family here, so we performed this Ratha-yātrā ceremony. According to our children's imagination, it was very gorgeous. So I think our present Manmohan.... His name is? Gabhur Bhavana? (Bengali) Gopishvara Mullik. That Gopishvara Mullik was my father's friend. So he was criticizing my father that "You are performing Ratha-yātrā ceremony and you are not inviting us." So my father said, "That is children's play. What shall I invite you? You are very big man." "Oh, so you are avoiding. In the name of children you are avoiding us." On the whole, this Ratha-yātrā festival was very gorgeously.... Then imitating me, the other, my brother like, Kangalu(?), he also introduced Ratha-yātrā. And.... Kangalu. (Bengali) So all of them introduced Ratha-yātrā, and the destination was this Thakurbari, from there. So practically what I am doing now, the same thing, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa worship and introduction of Ratha-yātrā. I am not doing anything else. You know very well. We are now performing Ratha-yātrā ceremony practically in all big cities of the world, in San Francisco, in...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our house was here. I am coming almost daily, on every moment. I was playing here. They were all my playmates. The whole this, from that street to this street, that was our house, home. Here is the pharmacy, that Kailash Pharmacy. That was very old. Our limit was coming up to this road and up to that (indistinct) road.
Abhirāma: Your father would not let you go any farther than this?
Prabhupāda: In those days who cared for the father? We were coming and.... It was not so congested. There was a riot, Hindu-Muslim riot. This quarter is Muslim quarter. Oh, in 1911 that was a dangerous day. Perhaps I would have been killed. Riot. Very big riot. This was my school, here, this building. This was my school. And college was Scottish Churches. In this ground we used to play football. Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How far would you carry Jagannātha?
Prabhupāda: From our house to this Thakurbari, Rādhā-Govinda's house, coming and going with procession of children and khola, karatāla and everything. Prasādam distribution, everything was there. My father used to encourage. And in those days if my father would spend twenty-five rupees, it was a great festival. Why not? In those days, fifty, sixty years ago, the money value was at least twenty times. So if my father was spending at that time twenty rupees, now it is at least four hundred rupees. So for a children's play four hundred rupees is not a small amount.
Abhirāma: At least fifty dollars in American.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So my father used to pay.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You hired a saṅkīrtana party?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Only two rupees. That's all.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So give him two rupees, eight annas. (Hindi)
Guru dāsa: Bargain.
Prabhupāda: My father used to do that. He'd go to a vegetable vendor. He has got a big basket, and he'll say, "What do you want for all, the whole basket." So he is ready because he'll sit down so long, so at very cheap rate he'll give it. And it was not required in the family so much. My mother became very angry, that "You are bringing so many, so much vegetable, it is being spoiled." But he would purchase like that. If you give him in those days fifty rupees to go to the market, he will spend all the money and bring at home. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) We are prepared to spend. (break) ...from saintly person.
Vrajavāsī: Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Haribol. Jaya! Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (3): Why would someone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious have one hundred children? For example, why would someone like Dhṛtarāṣṭra, who is not particularly Kṛṣṇa conscious...?
Prabhupāda: Oh, he was Kṛṣṇa conscious. In those days everyone was Kṛṣṇa conscious. (break)
Devotee (2): There's only a certain amount of grain. There's only a certain amount of water. So...
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee (2): There's some theories, where they think that there's only a certain amount of grains...
Prabhupāda: Their theories we don't accept. There's so much water.
Jagadīśa: This Frenchman also says that he...
Prabhupāda: German people still hate England. They do not like to speak in English; that I have seen. In the bank they know English, but they won't speak it. English everyone knows. The Kaiser was against. They said that Kaiser is the grandson of Queen Victoria, from daughter's side. And King George from the son's side—Edward's seventh son. They were cousin brothers. So this Kaiser, when he was young boy, went to paternal uncle's house, when he was a young boy. So there was some playing, cut with a knife. So royal family, so many doctors came. So the boy was saying, "Why you are trying to cure it? Let the English blood go away." So from the childhood he was so inimical, that "I have got some English blood in my body, my mother is English, father German, so let the English blood go away." I do not know if that is fact, I heard it. (laughs) Maybe. It is joking also and serious. In our childhood in school, a book was there, "England's Work in India." One Mr. M. Ghosh, he wrote this book just to flatter the Englishmen. This, that "white man's burden." And it was the impression in those days: just to become like Englishmen, that is civilization. The Parsees in Bombay, they were the first-class flatterer, imitation, how to become like English lords, barons. This Tata factory was started by such ambition. They wanted to be English baron, lord, industrialist. In Calcutta also. Where our temple is, that is called saheb quarter. In our childhood we used to say saheb quarter. Saheb quarter means European neighborhood. They say our temple is saheb mandira in Māyāpura. And in Vṛndāvana aṇgrejī mandira. The same impression. To become saheb, that was great prestigious.
Prabhupāda: His name is Bon Mahārāja, and my Guru Mahārāja used to say banamānuṣa. Banamānuṣa means the gorilla. (laughter) He is black also like gorilla. He has given so much trouble to Guru Mahārāja.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we should go now, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Called him back: "Call this rascal back." Every month he was being sent seven hundred rupees. That, in those days seven hundred rupees is a big amount. So at least ten time value has gone up. Seven hundred means seven thousand. He was spending for nothing, and he was publishing report, "Swamiji is playing on harmonium." And photo. This is first year, second, like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he told your Guru Mahārāja that "Unless we serve meat, they will not come."
Prabhupāda: Ācchā! I do not know that.
Prabhupāda: Wholesale business is better than retail business. My father was a wholesale, cloth seller, cloth merchant. So, he liked wholesale business, not retail.
Mr. Kallman: The wholesale is much better. It's more financial...
Prabhupāda: A little profit, but aggregate is better.
Mr. Kallman: The volume is more.
Prabhupāda: Yes, volume is more. In those days, he was making cloth business, he was making profit one anna or two paise per piece.
Mr. Kallman: Very small profit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The Marwari business man, they want to sell, for suppose, one lakh of worth goods, if there is customer to pay him immediately one lakh ten rupees, he'll sell, immediately sell. He thinks "I've got that ten rupees," that's all. Again person. That is their way of doing it. They are not calculating that I have invested one lakh of rupees, I must get at least ten percent profit. No. Not at loss. A little profit. "Never mind, give me cash." That is Marwari business. And he, when he goes to purchase from his supplier, he sees that this man is purchasing at the time one lakh, two lakh. So he gives him all credit.
Rāmeśvara: Oh, your original, from India.
Prabhupāda: Yes, 1944, the first copy. I get them from selling. Perhaps they had been, American.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very thick, it was a thick magazine.
Prabhupāda: In those days I was spending three hundred rupees per month.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was a lot.
Prabhupāda: Yes, three hundred rupees, nowadays at least ten times. Three hundred ten times?
Kīrtanānanda: Three thousand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least three thousand. I think even perhaps more, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes, not less than.
Prabhupāda: There's no question of starvation for want of money. Anywhere sit down and do something palatable, and people will purchase. So your livelihood will go on. Pakorā, kacuri, jalebi, anything. You make some palatable, people are fond of eating some palatable things. That is their hobby. In Allahabad, there was a brāhmaṇa. I had my business, and he was neighborhood, he was living. So in the morning, the husband and wife would go to take bath in the Ganges. They would very nicely take bath, and while coming they will purchase some ingredients and then come home. The husband will perform pūjā, etc., and the wife will prepare many nice preparations-baḍā, pakori, puskar (?), this, that. Then he'll take his meals, rest awhile, and in the evening he will sit down, he was sitting just in front of my shop, about four or five o'clock. All the preparations his wife had made whole day, and the small shop. And the university students will come up to night, ten o'clock, he'll finish. Nothing will remain. Everything will be... And he'll make at least ten rupees profit, minimum. In those days, 1925, in those days ten rupees means nowadays at least fifty rupees. So, and living very happy. Living humbly as a brāhmaṇa, he was having his pūjā, going to the Ganges, taking bath, husband and wife, in the morning, and the wife's business is to prepare and his business was to sell. So they'll make at least ten, fifteen rupees profit daily, very prosperous. Living peacefully, husband and wife. There are many such families. The... If wife is very good, then his home is very nice. They cannot be unhappy at any circumstances. Dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ.(?) Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. When there is full agreement between husband and wife, cooperation, then the goddess of fortune comes there without application. You haven't got to ask goddess of fortune, "Please come and help me." She'll come automatically. This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not from England. But ordinary... So Englishman, why he declared war against the English?
Jayapatākā: Their interest was in America more than England.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally. So as soon as you make home, your interest will be at home. So that was their policy. In those days no Englishman was allowed to purchase property in India. All his income, money, should go to England. So the Mohammedan Moguls, they made their home in India. Therefore they stayed for eight hundred years. They would not have gone. Indians did not like to finish the Mohammedan kingdom. No, never. It is the Englishmen. They penetrated and finished them, not the Indians. Indians were not against the Mohammedans. They are going on. Little bit discrepancies were there, especially during the time of Auranzeb. He was bigot Mohammedan. He hated the Hindus. Not hated, but he was a, was is called, bigot, Mohammedan? He did not hate. That was not his qualification. Auranzeb gave many contributions to the Vṛndāvana temples. Yes. And Auranzeb's grandfather, Jahangir, he gave so many temples to many brāhmaṇas. There is one village just opposite Vṛndāvana, Keśīghāṭa, Jahangipura. This village was given to a brāhmaṇa. From the income he was maintaining a temple.
Prabhupāda: My mother was very much fond of pickles. After resting in the afternoon, she would take something very sour, pickle. We used to take with her also. (laughs) We were small children, my mother died when I was only 14 years old. (long pause) (aside) What else? All right bring it. (sounds of plates sliding)
Hari-śauri: Potato pakorā.
Prabhupāda: Oh, hm. (break) ...just in front of our house, attached to our house. That means the house belonged to one of our relatives and her son, stepson, he sold the whole house to a Marwari without the knowledge of this, my, she was in relation grandmother. So when the house was sold in those days, about say about 100 years ago, not 100 years, about 90 years. In Mahatma Gandhi road, most important, that Mullik's house you have seen? That was one of the Mullik's house, for 12,000 rupees. One bighā of land and grand building. So it was unknown to the stepmother, the stepson sold it. Then she appealed to the high-court that, "I belong to a respectable family and this my spoiled stepson has sold the house without my knowledge, then where shall I go?" The high-court considered that, "The drunkard son has sold at a cheap price, and she's belongs to a respectable family, where she'll go?" And the high-court order was, "The half of the house shall be used by this lady. During her lifetime, you cannot take possession," the Marwari who purchased. So under that grandmother, we used to live. Therefore this half portion of the house was a Marwari school. So it is just like our temple and this. So my father first admitted me in that Marwari school. So I learned this devanāgarī there, for a few days I was going. I was the only Bengali student there. Because I was little, my father thought that instead of going outside the house, within the house there is a school, get him admitted. The school name was Visuddhana(?) Marwari Vijnala(?), something like that, and later on they constructed huge building Visuddhana(?). Then the house was vacated. So in the beginning I was admitted in a Marwari school and I learned a little Hindi there, that's all.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't want to introduce harmonium.
Indian man: No, I know. That is what he's teaching at the moment. He's doing it out of force.
Prabhupāda: The other musical instrument, if he plays his attention will be diverted in musical instrument, not to chanting. "We have to see melody, whether it is going on nicely." But that is not good. Our concentration should be hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is... That is bhakti. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, simply this karatāla, khola, that's all. In those days... Of course, there was no harmonium, but many stringed instruments were there. Sitar, esarāja, but these things were not used. Sometimes we do use to attract, but it is not required. (Hindi)
Indian lady: Yesterday I was (indistinct). The way it was for me, prema-bhakti. Through music it is very easy. (indistinct) You have to take rest now.
Prabhupāda: No, I have to take prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Professional writer and some speaker.
Dr. Patel: All of them. (indistinct)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the President of the United States has a speech writer.
Prabhupāda: ...learned scholar, English licensed. We know that Madanmohan Malhotra. In those days Surendranath Bannerji was a great orator. You have heard his name? Surendranath Bannerji. He is the practically father of Indian nationalism. So he was I.C.S., and in those days English scholar, His father was big doctor. Dr. Dugdhachandra Bannerji. So his speech, this Madanmohan Malhotra used to rote, cram, and before a mirror he would speak like this. "Oh..." In this way he became a politician. He was smārta-brāhmaṇa and he became a politician. Simply by imitating Surendranath Bannerji's speech.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Thirty times, yes. My father's income was from 250 to 300, and we were living very comfortably.
Jagadīśa: A month?
Prabhupāda: Per month.
Dr. Patel: It was more than sufficient, those days.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that three hundred rupees means... What you calculated?
Hari-śauri: Well, at 250 rupees it came to seven and a half thousand rupees now.
Prabhupāda: That's right. Even low as 250 it comes to seven thousand rupees. So who has got seven thousand rupee income now?
Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja purchased two camels. I did not... I do not know what happened, but he purchased.
Gurudāsa: I think Tīrtha Mahārāja was fighting with someone else over them.
Prabhupāda: No, it is long ago.
Dr. Patel: We have a story in Mahābhārata that all Ataravart, he can do. The Hastināpura in just when Abhimanyu was going for fight. In those days they were using camels.
Gurudāsa: In Rajastan they use widely.
Dr. Patel: Rajastan is a desert.
Prabhupāda: No, Vṛndāvana quarter there are many camels.
Prabhupāda: Because after some years I went to USA, in 1966, er '65. 1958 or '59, I went there. For four, five years naturally. And after going to USA there was no chance.
Gargamuni: In front of the temple, though, is so many beggars. You cannot walk peacefully. In front of the temple so many beggars, and no one is giving...
Prabhupāda: In 1920 I came to Bhuvaneśvara. So I was thronged with so many beggars. So at that time I promised, "If I bring at least"—in those days—"more than one thousand rupees to distribute to the beggars, then I shall come. I'll not come." (laughs) I thought like that. Means whatever money I had I will distribute. Still, they are thronging, the beggars. So much beggars have now come. Beggars. Very poor country.
Gargamuni: We could have very big prasādam distribution there, in Purī. Right on the beach we could set up a whole prasāda distribution.
Prabhupāda: If you arrange for prasāda distribution, you become very popular.
Prabhupāda: Bring all these books in the court. Sometimes in Calcutta, high-court judge was a big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than one thousand rupees per day, say sixty, seventy years ago. That one thousand means thirty times nowadays. Thirty thousand a day. He was very big lawyer. He was offered a judgeship in the... "No, no, no. I don't call for it." He was earning. The judges were getting at that time four thousand per month, and he was earning one thousand daily. So why should he give...? (coughs) So all the judges were friends. So in one case he brought so many books for argument. So the judges were friends, so he very mildly criticized, "Oh, Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) This was the... He addressed, "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law. No, no, you do not know what is law. I'll teach you today good lesson." He criticized him, "Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." This is a famous argument. So they cannot deny that "Why you have brought so many books to bother me?" No. "You have to hear. It may take twelve years to hear, but you have to hear. This is law."
Gargamuni: Yes, the court, before the case can decide, they must read all the books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And argue line by line.
Brahmānanda: We received that tape where you tell the story of Mr. Ghosh bringing all the books just to...
Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. There was big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than thirty-thousand per month. Rajbery Ghosh, Doctor. He was Doctor. So in one case he brought so many books in the court, the judge remarked, "Well, Dr. Ghosh, You have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) No, any statement we give, it has to be considered. They cannot neglect. So you can simply put these books, eighty-four books: "This is our statement. You read them. Then give your judgement." How do you think? Did you consult any lawyer?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We're going to do it. It can be done.
Prabhupāda: "It is not brainwash. It is science. You have to know the science." And actually that is the fact. The court case is going on.
Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to stock huge stock in Calcutta. Burma Sale. And new tin, if you exchange the container, then six annas less. Not very costly. Of course, in those days it was costly, taking consideration of the purchasing power of money. Four rupees, I remember, a few annas. My father did not like to purchase anything retail. For his daily necessity he'll purchase, he would purchase potato, one bag. So one bag means, maybe, one rupee, eight annas. (laughs) One anna per seer, kilo, I have purchased. Rice, fifteen mounds he will purchase. And what is the price? Three rupees, four annas. First-class rice. Coal, this coal, coke. Five annas per mound, purchase one cart load, fifteen mounds. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees per month in those days. And taking gold standard, my mother was purchasing gold from my cousin—he has gold shop-twenty rupees per tolā, first-class gold. Now it is six hundred rupees per tolā. (break) ...in those days thirty rupees per month. For thirty rupees, clerical staff, if you increase thirty times, how much it comes?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nine hundred.
Prabhupāda: Nine hundred rupees. So where the clerk is getting nine hundred rupees?
Prabhupāda: Nobody, no clerk is getting nine hundred rupees. Maybe officers, superintendent, they are getting. So actually people have not increased their income. That means they have become poor. Thirty rupees' clerk is very good position in those days. And sixty rupees' clerk, that is superintendent. The things were cheap. And two hundred rupees, officer, big income. The high-court judges were getting four thousand rupees in those days. What they are getting now? I don't think their salary has increased. Maybe five thousand, six thousand. The governor was getting ten thousand. High-court judges were getting four thousand. And secretaries were getting five hundred to one thousand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People have become poor, poor materially and spiritually. Actually it's clear that the devotees are becoming wealthy materially and spiritually, and that is one of the reasons that these demons are so angry—because they see our opulence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are surprised (laughs) that "These people do not do anything, and they're living so opulent?" They inquired in Los Angeles. You know that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Not courtyard. Within the boundary, compound. The ramma badhi, vaihama badhi, merde badhi, purusdera badhi,(?) four different courtyards. And who cared for city life in those days? Nobody. Everyone was satisfied in village. General people, they would not come to city. Only servant class. What business they have got from the city? Because their main income from the field, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. What they have got to do with the city? In the city, big, big zamindars, personally they had nothing to do. They are managers and sircars(?) were collecting money. That's all. And their extra money, they're constructing Ṭhākura Badhi,(?) temple, just like that Mullick's Ṭhākura Badhi, and festival going on. That was aristocracy. They devoted their money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is that? You have seen the Bengali?
Brahmānanda: Yes. This is being reprinted? Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu is doing very nicely in printing.
Prabhupāda: Hm. He has got good engagement. (break) ...his magazine.
Hari-śauri: Everybody that comes buys a magazine and a Bhagavānera Kathā.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavānera Kathā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I remember. He told, the woman's brain, thirty-four ounce, man's brain, up to sixty-four ounce. He told. I remember. He was very saintly man, Dr. Urquhart. And before that there was one principal. He's Watt, Mr. Watt. He was the roughest man. He'd fight with the students like guṇḍā, Mr. Watt. But he was very good manager, principal.
Satsvarūpa: Did they try to make you Christian? Like that?
Prabhupāda: No. There was Bible class, compulsory, half an hour, from one to half past one.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Huh? No. They used to supply yearly one Bible, very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Free. But no one became a Christian.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No one. In India, in those days... (break) ...all the Jains. Jains... (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only vaiśya community.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all you can talk. It is not expected that everyone will be able to understand. It is not expected.
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
It is not easy job. But still, some ideal institution should be there who are actually serious to understand. They may be given the chance. That must be there. In the university, when we were students, there were some postgraduate classes that no student was coming. But still, the university maintained that class, paying, in those days, 1,200, 1,500, salaries to the professors. They maintained that. So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It is open. It is not difficult at all. Just like Kṛṣṇa says the perfect life, how one can become perfect, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manāḥ, "just become My devotee," mad-bhaktaḥ, "worship me," mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, "simply offer your obeisances unto Me." One, two, three, four-four items. If you do one item at least, your life becomes successful. Even this child can do this. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā and follow the principle—not at all difficult. It is not reserved for any particular class of men or country or society, such a nice thing, and the human body is meant for understanding this knowledge, not to imitate the cats and dogs, jumping. This is being done by the cats and dogs. By evolutionary process, when we come to the human form of life, it is meant for understanding this science. So this opportunity there is, but we are blocking them not to take this knowledge and try to understand how to jump like cats and dogs. Greatest disservice to the human society. We have got such chance, so instead of helping you to get the chance, if I mislead you another way, is it not greatest disservice?
Prabhupāda: But the disease is not ordinary. It is always fatal. But by His especial mercy anything can be done. That is another thing. Lost appetite means life finished. (pause) Tāvad tanu-bhṛtāṁ yad upekṣitānām. If Kṛṣṇa neglects, then nobody can live, but if He likes that "He must live," anything can happen. That is possible. Anityam asukhaṁ lokam imaṁ prāpya bhajasva mām. Anityam asukhaṁ lokaṁ bhajasva mām. Otherwise failing. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. (pause) (break) (Hindi) (break) ...London. Guru Mahārāja sending him regularly seven hundred rupees per month. In those days seven hundred means at least...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty times?
Prabhupāda: That was in 1936. Rice has increased after 1940.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There wasn't any influence of that Ramakrishna Mission yet?
Prabhupāda: No Ramakrishna... Who cares for?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had no... I mean, nowadays they are so widespread in their effect.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Oh... Because people are degraded. Who cared for Ramakrishna?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In those days it was much purer.
Prabhupāda: Still who cares for Ramakrishna?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now people are hodgepodge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean to say, in those days people were a little bit more authentic in their, you know...
Prabhupāda: Degraded, most. There is no principles. Formerly there was a standard principle. Then they fall down.
Prabhupāda: Guru Mahārāja, he saw this. Now I remember those days, when he was instructing, "Do like this. Do like this." At that time, I could not understand. "Oh, why he's talking to me?" He wanted. "Jaya Svāmī! Jaya Svāmī.(indistinct)" More stress required. But many men and may not...(indistinct) So just attempt. Ask him. Bring some books when you leave. Then construct a... No, He is giving. Kṛṣṇa is giving money. Within few days you have collected fifty thousand. Where is the scarcity of money?
Gargamuni: Nowhere in the world. Everyone has money.
Prabhupāda: How people were happy in those days. A small income, they were satisfied. Nowadays they simply want money. Nobody was unhappy even if he had very small income. He would adjust, and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These things we have seen. I have seen that even the maidservant, what to speak of gentlemen. Where those days gone? And nobody was hungry. What is this nonsense civilization? Simply want of money and unsatisfied in every step. Especially in the Western countries they're becoming hippie. Why? The training is different.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we are being given a new training by you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've become happy. Actually, apart from the devotees, there are no happy people in the whole world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim...
- (BG 5.29)
Because we are accepting Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, enjoyer, He is the proprietor... We immediately accept this philosophy. Therefore we are getting little peace. Today I am thinking of massaging with oil. What do you think?
Upendra: Well, it's been some days now, huh?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Correspondence
1968 Correspondence
Yes, the Panca-tattva picture is standard, no need of changing. Panca-tattva belongs to Navadvipa and it is authentic. In Vrindaban, there is Radha-Krishna, that you have got enough pictures of, and you have got picture of Radha Madan Mohan Temple. When you go to Vrindaban, you can take pictures of important places; wait for those days when I shall accompany you in all the important places of Vrindaban.
1969 Correspondence
International Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, in London, I shall try to see if there is any similar society here. But one thing I can suggest as you have asked me to give a thought to this problem, that Goseva, according to our Vedic injunction, is specially entrusted to the mercantile community. Of course, during the Hindu government in India, the kings were mostly Vaisnavas like Maharaja Pariksit, and he at once caught the Black man Kali who was attempting to kill a cow. But those days are no more. Neither there is a king like Maharaja Pariksit, nor the present government of India is inclined to give protection to the cows. But the mercantile community, specially the Gujaratis and the Marwaris are undoubtedly rich in India, and I do not know why such mercantile communities do not open large-scale dairy farms. That will certainly give actual protection to the cows. From Bhagavad-gita we understand that the Vaisya community is specially responsible for giving protection to the cows as much as the ksatriya kings are responsible for giving protection to the citizens of the state. As such, if you can organize-and I believe you can do so, because by Grace of Krishna, you are in good position amongst the mercantile community—big dairy farms with large pasturing grounds, then the problem of milk supply and cow protection will automatically be done. I do not know how much you will appreciate my this suggestion, but if you can do such organization, it will be a great service to the country and to the animals, and to this cause of Krishna Consciousness. If you be serious on this point then I can help you with all of my possible energies.
I thank you very much for your letter. I am very much pleased to note the list of engagements you have submitted, and I can see you have been working very hard to secure so many opportunities for spreading K.C. Yes, within those days stated in your letter of March 20th you can add more engagements as you like. I have no objection. I have not yet received word from Rupanuga, in this connection, but you can plan on your program as it is set up. In N.Y. we have got engagement and they are paying $100 for a meeting, so you try to settle fees not less than $50 per lecture. So you can engage the whole duration of my stay there, and I shall deliver every day one lecture.
1970 Correspondence
I exactly remember you that you kindly took care of me when I was guest of Sri Hanuman Prasad Poddarji sometime in the years 1961 or 1962. I shall remember those days. I beg to convey my thanks again that you have remembered me even after so many years.
I am so glad to note that you remember the auspicious day sometimes in 1944 when I started my "Back to Godhead" magazine. I think in the first issue you wrote some article also, and you took the trouble of going several times to the Sarasvati Press for supervising the printing work. It is a great pleasure to remember those days of cooperation. You rightly remember that His Holiness Bhakti Saranga Goswami presided over the meeting in which our revered Kesav Maharaja also participated.
1976 Correspondence
Over the past ten years I have given the framework and now we have become more than the British Empire. Even the British Empire was not as expansive as we. They had only a portion of the world, and we have not completed expanding. We must expand more and more unlimitedly. But I must now remind you that I have to complete the translation of the Srimad-Bhagavatam. This is the greatest contribution; our books have given us a respectable position. People have no faith in this church or temple worship. Those days are gone. Of course, we have to maintain the temples as it is necessary to keep our spirits high. Simply intellectualism will not do, there must be practical purification.
| Page Title: | In those days (Conv. and Letters) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, Serene |
| Created: | 17 of Jul, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=65, Let=6 |
| No. of Quotes: | 71 |