This knowledge, they do not know. The scientists are thinking of making life eternal, immortal, like the Hiraṇyakaśipu's scheme, that he wanted to be immortal by tapasya. This is also tapasya, the so many scientific endeavor. This is also tapasya. But this tapasya is useless. It has no effect. They are trying foolishly to become immortal. That requires tapasya. Many, many demons... The demons do like that, tapasya for living ever. But they will not take the real method of tapasya, to purify. Their real aim is this material world, and here they want to become immortal. That is their foolishness. Here, nobody can become immortal. Even Brahmā, who is the creator of this universe, he's also not immortal. But they are trying to be immortal here. That is not possible. Tapasya should be... To become immortal, tapasya is recommended. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva (SB 5.5.1). Tapasya should be made. Immortality is your right. Because you are part and parcel of God, you are immortal. Now you are diseased. You are accepting birth and death. This is diseased condition. So try to cure the disease. Don't try to become immortal in diseased condition. That is not possible. You must cure the disease. If you simply imagine to live eternally, that is not possible. (aside:) Stop these children doing that. Immortal is our goal of life, immortality. That is the goal of life. But they are not taking seriously how to become immortal. That is their ignorance.
Immortal (Other Lectures)
Lectures
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So this how to become immortal, there is process recommended in the śāstras. That is in India. That is nowhere else. If you are actually serious about becoming immortal, then you should study the Vedic literatures from India. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that in India there is the process, how to become immortal. So He recommended, therefore, He desired, that Indians, you Indians, you have got the facility. Don't spoil your life by imitating the so-called rascal scientists of the Western countries, but you take advantage of the science, spiritual science, which is in India, and distribute the knowledge because they are in ignorance. Therefore He says,
- bhārata bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra
- janma sārthaka kari' karo paropakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
This should be the India's business. This whole world is in darkness, demonic civilization. And India, there is the remedy. So if the Indians take advantage and make his life perfect and then go to the Western countries and distribute this immortal knowledge, that is real business of India. Unfortunately, they are trying to imitate. There is no thing, nothing to imitate. And if you say they have discovered so many material comforts, that is all right. But with all your material comforts, you cannot become immortal. That is certain. That is certain. But you are desiring how to become immortal. That science is in India. That is tapasya. Tapasya means brahmacaryena. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa yamena niyamena vā tyāgena śrota-śaucābhyām... (SB 6.1.13). This, this is the śāstra.
So if you want to learn that science, how to become immortal, then you have to undergo austerities. That austerities begins with brahmācārya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Brahmacarya means controlling sex life. That is required. If you can control sex impulse... Because that is the medium of bondage. Here in this material world everyone is working hard to enjoy sex life. That is the main aim. Main aim is... And that you will find, in your country especially, very, very prominent. In Paris very, very old men, they are going to the club at night simply for the same purpose. So this has to be controlled. Controlled means mind and the senses. And the prominent sense is sex. That is called control. So if you want to become immortal, then you must practice this. Of course, in Western countries, it is very difficult. They say, "It is impossible." Big, big men, they say, "It is impossible." Yes, it is impossible. Therefore śāstra has given concession that you require sex life, but enjoy it in married life, but no illicit sex. At least, stop this. If you want to be immortal, these things are to be followed: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling. Then you can think of immortality, gradually. That is called tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Every śāstra, you'll find. At least at the end of life one should be completely free from these bad habits. That is called sannyāsa. Don't cheat, accept sannyāsa and indulge in these things. Don't be cheater. That is very bad. Sannyāsa means to take vow. In other station of life, there may be we fall down. But sannyāsa means no, no falldown. Therefore we have now taken very seriously. Unless one is found completely competent to accept sannyāsa, there is no more use of awarding sannyāsa. So this is the process. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Brahmacarya is very, very essential. And that is, when one becomes detestful to sex life, that is the beginning of spiritual life. That is the beginning of spiritual life.
So immortality is not very difficult thing. Simply one has to adopt the method, process, as recommended in the śāstra, and then you can become immortal. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... (BG 4.9). Punar janma naiti—this is immortality. The Kṛṣṇa says, punar janma na. "No more punar janma." And if you have no punar janma, there is no punar death, punar vyadhaka, or punar disease. Punar means again. So if you can stop your punar janma—no more taking birth—that is perfection of life. Therefore it is recommended that the guardians, namely the guru, spiritual master, the father, the mother, the king, or the government. The whole system should be so centralized that people may be saved from this process of punar janma. That is real government, real parenthood, real guruism—how to save the disciples or the citizens or the son, subordinates. They come to your shelter. Just like these children have come to the shelter of father and mother, the disciples have come to the shelter of guru. The citizens are expecting good government. So they are subordinate, expecting protection from the superior. Therefore the whole scheme should be how to protect them from repetition of death. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. We are entangled by this process of birth, death, old age and disease, and it is the duty of the guru, duty of the father, duty of the mother, duty of the government, how to save them from this process of birth, death, old and di... That is civilization. Otherwise it is dog civilization. What is the meaning? This is civilization.
So other yajñas are not possible in this age, Kali-yuga, Kali-yuga. The only yajña, this saṅkīrtana movement. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). If you want to perform yajña and if you are intelligent, su-medhasaḥ... The two words has been used in Vedic literature: su-medhasaḥ and alpa-medhasaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā this word has been used, alpa-medhasaḥ, tad bhavati alpa-medhasām, in the matter of worshiping the demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20)., antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām (BG 7.23) If you get some resultant action by worshiping demigod, that is antavat. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He got some benediction from Lord Brahmā. Lord Brahmā is not ordinary demigod. He's the... Amongst the demigods he's the head, pitāmaha. So Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted benediction from Lord Brahmā to become immortal. So immortality is not possible. So Lord Brahmā said that "I am myself not immortal. How can I give you? It is not possible." So Hiraṇyakaśipu took indirectly, negative way, that "I shall not die this way, I shall not die this way, I shall not die this way," negative way. So he thought himself to be very intelligent demon. So even that benediction was given, but still, he was killed by Nṛsiṁha-deva. So therefore, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām. Even by tricks or by penance or austerities you take some benedictions from the demigods, even if you are awarded, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). People want to be satisfied with little benefit, with little benefit. No, that is not our mission. We want the supreme benefit. Supreme benefit is that you are now entangled in the process of birth, death, old age and disease in the material existence. The real benefit is how to save yourself from these four difficulties.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
Yes. Everything in this material world, it has got a fixed time. And within that fixed time there are six kinds of changes. First birth, then growth, then to stay, then to produce by-product, then dwindling, then vanish. This is the law of material nature. This flower takes birth, just like a bud, then grows, then stays for two, three days, then it produces a seed, by-product, then dries up gradually, then finish. (aside:) You sit down like this. So this is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes. So you cannot stop this by your so-called material science. No. This is avidyā. People are trying to save themselves, and sometimes talking foolishly that by scientific knowledge man will be immortal. You cannot stop the process of the material laws. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The process of material nature, which is composed of three qualities—sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa... Tri-guṇa. Another meaning of guṇa is rope. Just like you have seen rope, they're twisted in three process. First of all thin rope, then three of them, they are rolled, then again three of them rolled, then again three. It becomes very strong. So these three qualities, sattva, raja, tamo-guṇa, they are mixed up. Again they produce some by-product, again mixed up, again mixed up. In this way eighty-one times they're twisted. So guṇamayī māyā, binding you more and more. So you cannot get out of this binding of this material world. Binding. So therefore it is called apavarga. This process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means nullifying the pavarga process.
"Only one who can learn the process of nescience and that of transcendental knowledge side by side can transcend the influence of repeated birth and death and enjoy the full blessings of immortality." (ISO 11)
So people do not understand what is immortality. They think that it is a vague idea, because no knowledge... So many things... We are very proud of our advancement of knowledge. So many things we do not know, and it is not possible to know even, by our modern experimental knowledge. It is not possible. Therefore, if you want real knowledge, then you go to knowledge. Vedas means knowledge. These Vedas means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Veda, Veda means knowledge. So if you want real knowledge, then you have to take shelter of these Vedas, Vedic literature, just like Īśopaniṣad. There are 108 Upaniṣads, out of which, nine are very important. Out of that nine, this Īśopaniṣad stands first, then Taittirīya Upaniṣad, Māṇḍūkya Upaniṣad, Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad. So the Upaniṣad... Upa, upa means nearing. So this knowledge will take you nearer to Kṛṣṇa. And amongst the learned society, ācāryas, the śruti-pramāṇa... Evidence is śruti. Śruti means these Vedas. They are not experimental knowledge. They are not knowledge established by the research work of contaminated, conditioned soul. Contaminated, conditioned soul, their senses are imperfect. They cannot see things as they are. Simply they theorize, "It may be like that." So much they can say. So "It may be like that," that is no knowledge. Knowledge definite. There is no mistake.
Festival Lectures
So this Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to become immortal, and he underwent penances, severe penances, so much so, the whole universe became trembled. So that Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, had to come to pacify him, "What do you want?" So he wanted to become immortal. Lord Brahmā said that "Although I have got very long duration of life,..." The duration of life of Brahmājī is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Sahasra-yuga, one group of yugas-Satya, Treta, Dvāpara, Kali—it becomes about forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply these forty-three lakhs of years by one thousand, that duration of time is Brahma's twelve hours, one day. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ. So that Brahmā who lives for millions of trillions of years—still, he has to die.
His Excellency, the High Commissioner; ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for your coming here and participating in this ceremony, Janmāṣṭamī, advent of Kṛṣṇa. The subject matter I've been ordered to speak on is advent of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,
- janma karma me divyaṁ
- yo jānāti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti kaunteya
- (BG 4.9)
This fact, that we can achieve such a stage of life when we can stop our birth and death... Sa 'mṛtatvāya kalpate. This morning, I was explaining this verse:
- yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete
- puruṣaṁ puruṣarsabha
- sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ
- so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate
Amrtatva means immortality. So the modern civilization, they have no idea, either the great philosopher, great politician or great scientist, that it is possible to attain the stage of immortality. Amṛtatva. We are all amṛta. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na jāyate na mrīyate vā kadācin. We living entities, we never die, never take birth. Nityaḥ śāśvato yaṁ, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Every one of us, we are eternal, nityaḥ śāśvato; Purāṇa, the oldest. And after annihilation of this body, we do not die. Na hanyate. The body is finished, but I have to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13).
Cause of all causes. Just like try to understand. I am caused by my father. My father is caused by his father. He is caused by his father, his father... Go on searching, then you'll ultimately come to somebody who is the cause. But He has no cause. Anādir ādir govindaḥ (Bs. 5.1). I may be cause of my son, but I am also result of the cause, my father. But the śāstra says that anādir ādir, He is the original person, but He has no cause. That is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). The advent of Kṛṣṇa, it is very important thing. We should try to understand Kṛṣṇa, why He advents, why He comes on this material world, what is His business, what are His activities. If we simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then what is the result? The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). You get that immortality. The aim of life is to achieve immortality. Amṛtatvāya kalpate.
Our human life, the ultimate goal of human life is to achieve immortality. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), This is our..., we have forgotten this. We are simply leading the life of cats and dogs, without any knowledge that we can achieve that perfection of life when there will be no more birth, no more death. We do not understand even that there is possibility of amṛtatvam. But everything is possible. Amṛtatvam. Nobody wants to die. That's a fact. Nobody wants to become old man, nobody wants to become diseased. This is our natural inclination. Why? Because originally, in our spiritual form, there is no birth, no death, no old age, no disease. So after evolutionary process down from the aquatics, birds, beasts, plants, trees, when you come to this form of human form of body after... Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tād jīva-jātiṣu. This is evolutionary process. We come to the human form of body. Then we should know what is the goal of life. The goal of life is amṛtatvam, to become immortal. That you can become immortal simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says. It is a fact. We have to simply understand. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, tattvataḥ, then, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body, you don't accept any more material body. And as soon as you don't accept any material body means you become immortal. Because by nature we are immortal.
So Kṛṣṇa advents, Kṛṣṇa advents to teach us this lesson, that "You are immortal by nature. As spirit soul you are part and parcel of Me. I am as immortal. So you are also immortal. Unnecessarily, you are trying to be happy in this material world."
The fourth incarnation is Nṛsiṁha-deva. Nṛsiṁha-deva appeared to save Prahlāda Mahārāja, who was five-years-old boy and he was being tortured by his atheistic father. So He appeared from the pillar of the palace as a half-man, half-lion. Because this Hiraṇyakaśipu took benediction from Brahmā that he'll not be killed by any man or any animal. So the Lord appeared neither man nor animal. This is the difference between the Lord's intelligence and our intelligence. We are thinking that we can cheat the Lord by our intelligence, but the Lord is more intelligent than us. This Hiraṇyakaśipu wanted to cheat Brahmā by indirect definition. First of all he wanted to become immortal. Brahmā said, "That is not possible because even I am not immortal. Nobody in this material world is immortal. That is not possible." So Hiraṇyakaśipu, the demon... The demons are very intelligent. He thought that "Round about way I shall become immortal." He prayed to Brahmā that "Please give me the benediction that I shall not be killed by any man or any animal." Brahmā said, "Yes, that is all right." "I shall not be killed in the sky, on the water or on land." Brahmā said, "Oh yes." "I shall not be killed by any man-made weapons." "That's all right." In this way he utilized his intelligence in so many ways just to come to the conclusion of being immortal.
Initiation Lectures
So duration of life is very uncertain in this age. At any moment we can die. But this life, this human form of life, is meant for a sublime gain. What is that? To make a permanent solution of the miserable condition of our life. In this... So long we are in this material form, this body, we have to change from one body to another, one body to another. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Repeated birth, repeated death. Soul is immortal, eternal, but changing, just like you are changing the dress. So this problem they do not take into account, but this is a problem. The human life is meant for making a solution of this problem, but neither they have any knowledge, nor they are very much serious about solving these problems. So duration, if you get a long duration of life, then there is chance you may meet somebody, you may meet some good association that you can make the solution of your life. But that is also impossible now because our duration of life is very short. Prāyeṇa alpāyuṣaḥ sabhya kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ mandāḥ. And even whatever duration of life we have got, we are not properly utilizing. We are utilizing this life just like animal, simply eating, sleeping, mating and defending.
So this initiation process is ācāryopāsanam, beginning of worshiping the spiritual master. So in that, I mean to say, list of how to progress in knowledge, so these four principles, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam... One should always put in his front that "However expert I may be, I'll have to meet death, I'll have to take birth, I'll have to become old man, and I'll have to suffer the pangs of diseases." Then what is advancement? Either you become very rich man or become a Brahmā or become a small ant, you have to die. Just like when Hiraṇyakaśipu worshiped Lord Brahmā and asked him the benediction that "Sir, make me immortal." And Brahmā said, "I, myself, is not immortal. How can I make you immortal?" So immortality is not possible. Then how it is possible? We want immortality. Now we are sitting here. If there is some siren, then immediately on the roof of this house, atom bomb will be dropped. Then immediately we shall flee away from this place. Why? Because we are not prepared to meet death. We do not wish to die. That's a fact. But death is forced. This is knowledge, that "I do not wish to die. Why death is forced upon me? Or if there is any means to avoid death?" The śāstra says, "Yes, there is." Bhagavad-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa says that... Kṛṣṇa says, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6), that if you... Mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. "If you come to my planet, dhāma," dhāma means planet, place, "then you'll never come back to take birth again in this material world."
So any intelligent man, if he's actually has got sense, he should try for this. And especially in this human form of life, it is possible to achieve this benediction, that I can become immortal, I can become blissful, I can become full of knowledge-sac-cid-ānanda. Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), and if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then ultimately you also become exactly like Him, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Vigraha means form, body, and sat means eternal, and cit means knowledge. Sat, cit, ānanda. Ānanda means blissfulness. So this body, however you may be... You may be American, you may be Englishman, you may be very rich man, you may be very poor man, you may be white man, you may be black man, whatever you may be, but this body is not sac-cid-ānanda. It is not eternal; it will end. It is full of ignorance. We do not know what will happen if I go just out of this door. Full of ignorance. We do not know what is happening beyond this wall. So... And always full of anxieties. Where is ānanda? There is no ānanda. So this body is not sac-cid-ānanda vigraha. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and act accordingly, then you will, at the end, you'll get sac-cid-ānanda form. Your form is sac-cid-ānanda because you are part and parcel of sac-cid-ānanda, Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta (BG 15.7). "All living entities are My parts and parcels," Kṛṣṇa says.
But those who are talking of Kṛṣṇa always, to understand Kṛṣṇa and to make others to understand Kṛṣṇa, they are not going to do that. For them, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Who will preach unless one knows Kṛṣṇa, why He appears, janma, why He disappears, janma karma, why He works in the warfield of battle, battlefield of Kurukṣetra, karma? Or so many karmas, Kṛṣṇa, when He was present. So unless one understands why Kṛṣṇa comes and work like that, why He comes... Janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9). But they are all transcendental. Yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Anyone who knows perfectly well, he can preach. Otherwise what he will talk? We'll have to talk about Kṛṣṇa. If we do not know about the activities of Kṛṣṇa, then what we shall talk? So this talking of Kṛṣṇa, vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane, will make him immortal. It is not the frog's crowing. The frog's crowing will gradually lead him to death. But this kind of transcendental, glorifying vibration will make him immune from death, will elevate to the eternal life, blissful life.
General Lectures
But the advantage of Brahmaloka planet is that you get very, very long duration of life and the standard of living, and there are so many things. Yes. Similarly, moon planet also, the standard of living and duration of life, you get ten thousand years of life, and there one day equal to your six months. What you calculate as six months here according to the solar system, in the moon planet that six months equal to their one day. Similarly, thirty days, one month; twelve months, one year. Similarly, ten thousand years you get, life there. But there is death. Just like the small microbe; it has got life, say, for few minutes, and you have got life, say, for a hundred years. That does not mean that you are immortal and that the microbe is a mortal. Both of us. Similarly, there are, in other planets, the duration of life may be very, very, very long, but that does not mean that they will not die. The death is there. Death can be eradicated only when you go to Kṛṣṇaloka, or in the spiritual sky.
But I have got the tendency to keep my body fit, strong, and eternal. That is my tendency. People are taking so much exercise just to become very strong and stout. But nature will not allow you. However stout and strong you may be, you have to die. You have to give up this body. This body is temporary, but our tendency is to live forever. The scientists are trying how to keep this body fit. One Russian scientist said that "By material science we shall be able to keep this body forever." They may say like that, but in the history we do not find any evidence that anyone has ever been able to keep this body forever, immortal. That is not possible.
But this tendency can be satisfied if you transfer yourself to the spiritual world, because you are marginal. I have already said that we are in a marginal position. If we like, we can keep on this material side of the nature, and if we like, we can transfer ourself to the spiritual side of nature. And what we are? We are also spiritual sparks. Therefore we cannot adjust with this material nature.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja's recommendation is very genuine. That is the Vedic system. But he was unfortunately born in an asura family. His father was a great asura. Asura means godless. He had also undergone severe austerity to achieve the power. He was defeated by the demigods. So he left his home and underwent severe austerities so that the whole universe became trembled and Brahmājī came to appease him, "What do you want?" He said, "I want to become immortal." So Brahmājī said, "How can I give you the benediction of immortality, because myself I am not immortal?" Everyone has to die in this material world, either one may be Brahmā or a small ant. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). "So this is not possible. I cannot make you immortal."
Then very diligently, he said, "All right, then no man will kill me."
"That's all right." In this way, he thought that "I am very intelligent and I am cheating Brahmājī. Indirectly, by different way, I have now become immortal."
So he also underwent great austerities, but for material enjoyment. He wanted to live forever in this material world. So he was never interested to teach his children about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But Prahlāda Mahārāja, fortunately, when he was in the womb of his mother, at the care of Nārada Muni, he understood the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because if you associate with a sādhu, the saintly person, then saintly person has nothing to do but simply deliver the knowledge, transcendental knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have no other duty. Just like Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he was king but a great Vaiṣṇava. So about him it is stated, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). He was king, very responsible king, emperor of the world, but he cultivated this Kṛṣṇa consciousness that he fixed up his mind, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravindayor, always fixed up on the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa. If you fix up your mind, concentrate your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa is here present—then your mind becomes locked up. It cannot think anything else. Therefore Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, he fixed up his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa.
The activities are changing. So, this body is changing, that's a fact. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Just like in this life we are changing different types of bodies, similarly dehāntara-prāptiḥ, another body. These rascals, they do not understand the simple reasoning. Simple logic they cannot understand, still they argue, "What is the proof there is transmigration of the soul?" Here is the proof. That this child, Sarasvatī, when she is a grown-up lady she'll not act like that. But everyone will accept her, Sarasvatī, the same character (?). Her father, mother, relatives, everything is there, Sarasvatī has got another body. So what is the difficulty to understand this logic? That the soul is immortal and the body is changing. What is the difficulty? Just try to understand, you have to preach immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul. What is the difficulty? Simple logic. What is the difficulty? Can anyone say? No difficulty? Will you be able to convince others?
Therefore those who are trying to get better position in this material world, they are simply becoming defeated, because there is no better position. He's a rascal. He's thinking this is better position. What is better position? Then Bhagavad-gītā says the better position is amṛtatva. Saḥ amṛtatvāya kalpate: "Don't die. Keep your position firm." That is better position. So is there any science to give knowledge how one becomes immortal? Yes, there is. You can become immortal. Not in this material science; not in the so-called universities. But there is knowledge in the Vedic scripture by which you can become immortal. That is better position. No more death, no more birth, no more old age, no more disease. So guru's task is very great responsibility. He has to guide the disciple how to make him quite eligible candidate to get the perfect position, immortality, back to home, back to Godhead.
The same word, amṛtam. In the modern civilization they do not know what is amṛtam. Amṛtam means immortality. If you execute dharma perfectly under the direction of the authorities, then the result will be that you will get immortal life. Amṛtam aśnute. This very word is used. The matter is guhyam. Dvādaśaite vijānīmaḥ. These twelve personalities will... Yamarāja is speaking to the assistant of Yamarāja, that "All these twelve men, we..." He also included. Yamarāja is also one of the authorities. So he says "We twelve personalities," dvādaśaite vijānīmo dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ, "we know." And dharmam means bhāgavataṁ dharma. Bhāgavatam means in relationship with God. Because I already explained, dharma means the laws given by God. Therefore dharma's another name is bhāgavataṁ dharmam, means "activities or duties in terms of our relationship with God." That is called dharma. Dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ. Dharma means bhāgavata-dharma, no other dharma. In relationship with God. We must know "Who is God, what is my relationship with God, how I have to act in that relationship and what is the perfection of life." These things we must know.
And if you are fortunate enough to understand what is religion, then you become immortal; next life is immortal life. This is the purpose of dharma. We should not be satisfied that "I have got a dharma made by somebody, my some relative or somebody else." That is not dharma. Dharma means to understand God. It doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim. It doesn't matter. If you think that by your principle, you have understood God and you have learned how to love God, and you have learned how to obey God, that dharma is perfect. That religious system is perfect. It may go on under any name, it doesn't matter. But if you have achieved the result, that is wanted. Just like if you pass your M.A. examination. It doesn't matter whether you pass it from London University or Calcutta University or Berlin University. You have passed your examination. That will be taken into consideration. So similarly, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That system of religion is perfect by which one can learn what is God and how to love God. That is perfect. But you are following very nicely dharma, your so-called dharma, but you have no knowledge of God, no love for God—it is simply wasting time. It is simply wasting time. Therefore dharma means to understand God and to abide by His order. To learn this scientific method, one has to approach...
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for everyone's benefit. It is the topmost humanitarian movement to make everyone happy, to make everyone immortal, to make everyone peaceful(?), to make everyone... (break) ...without being wise, nobody can surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Mūḍhas, rascals, they cannot. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These are the qualification, who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Duṣkṛtina, narādhama. "Oh, how he is narādhama? He is M.A., Ph.D., D.H.C., T.H.C. How he is narādhama?" Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: his knowledge has no value because he does not know Kṛṣṇa. These M.A., Ph.D.'s will not help me. Śaṅkarācārya said, na hi na hi rakṣati ḍu-kṛñ-karaṇe. "By your grammatical jugglery of words nonsense, you cannot be saved." Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate: "You rascal, just engage yourself in the loving service of Govinda." This is Śaṅkarācārya's advice, although he was impersonalist. Kṛṣṇa says that "Who does not worship Me?" Naradhāma, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, they have no knowledge. Because if he remains in the real point a rascal, then what is the value of his knowledge? There is no knowledge.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Yes. And there is another process, inductive. Now let us see whether man is mortal or immortal. So go and study. So there are two processes. We say in our Sanskrit language, avaroha panthā, āroha panthā, knowledge coming from up, and knowledge for trying to go up. Ascending process and descending process. So we say that descending process is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Becoming, that's... Therefore, the question becoming means I am now in this awkward position, that I am eternal and immortal but I have been entrapped by something which is mortal, therefore I am changing my position. So when I shall stop this taking of different position, I shall remain in my own being, that is the (synthesis).
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is just like this Bhagavad-gītā says, that dehino 'smin... It says that this dehi, the soul which is within the body, that is immortal and this body is mortal. Two things are there.
Prabhupāda: Separate means mortal and immortal.
Prabhupāda: No. You are immortal always, by constitution, but you are changing your bodies exactly like the moon is fixed but the bodies are changing, clouds, changing, and it appears that the moon is also going on, but moon is not going on. Similarly, soul is permanent.
Prabhupāda: After (indistinct), they are living sixty years, and they think (indistinct) sixty years (indistinct). Here in this material, either sixty years or hundred sixty years or millions of sixty years or trillions of sixty years (indistinct). One who is living for sixty years, for him millions of years means immortal.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is not philosophical neither rational. If he cannot understand immortality of the soul, then he keeps himself in the animal kingdom. He is not even human being, what to speak of his education and philosophy.
Prabhupāda: That I have already said, "Immortality of soul is the fact." If one does not understand this fact then he is animal. He is not in the humans category, he is animal category. He is experiencing daily how the soul is continuing even the body is being changed. In his family, he is seeing that the body of a child is changed into the body of a boy, but the father, mother know that the soul is the same. So where is the difficulty to understand the immortality of the soul? So that means it is less intelligence. Therefore, according to Vedic description, one who does not understand immortality of the soul he remains in the category of animals, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
Prabhupāda: It is not belief. It is not the question of belief. It is the question of fact. Just like a man if he says, "I don't believe that I shall become old," then that is his ignorance or foolishness. He must become old man, or the body must become old. So if a man thinks that, when I shall become old, that is immortality of soul, that when I shall become old means when my body will become old. He will continue. It is common sense affair. It is a fact. Where is the question of belief or not belief?
Prabhupāda: If somebody thinks that "In future, fifty years after, I shall become old man," this is knowledge. And if somebody thinks that "No, no, I shall never become old," that is ignorance. Although it is future—a man of knowledge knows that this will be future. So I shall continue to live in future, and I was a child in the past, and I am a middle aged man at this time, so in these three, past, present and future, I am existing. Where is the difficulty? If this simple truth one cannot understand, that what kind of human being he is? I remain in the past as child, the body is finished. Now I am a middle-aged man or young man, the body is different. And in future I shall become old man, that body will be different. So I, as a child, I, as a young man, as an old man, I am the same, all the bodies changing. This is the fact. Who can deny it? So where is the difficulty to understand it? And in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "Both you, Me, and all these soldiers, they existed in the past, and they are present existing, and in future they will continue to exist. This is immortality. He says when, I mean very openly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This living soul, he is never born. That body is changed, that is called birth. But the soul is immortal. So he never takes birth, he never dies. "No, I see that he has died." No, that is the annihilation of his body. Take it from me that by the annihilation of the body, the soul is not dead. This, this is authority and this is, we have to accept this authority. If you don't accept authority, if you have no reason to understand how the soul is immortal, then what we are, except like the animals? So one who does not believe or cannot understand, he is no better than animal. He has no knowledge. This is the beginning of knowledge. Then other (indistinct). First of all one must understand what he is. If he does not know what he is, he is wrongly directed. He is taking care of the body. Just like he, the cage and bird. If you simply take care of the cage without taking care of the bird, is that very good knowledge? That is foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Christianity believes in the immortality of the soul?
Prabhupāda: One living entity is destined to live in a certain body. If you destroy that body, then he has to wait for the next body. That means you are interfering with his progress. Therefore you are sinful. Just like I am living in this apartment. If somebody by force drives me away, it is criminal. If I go to the police, that "I was living in this apartment and this man by force has driven me," is it not criminal? So I am not lost because I am driven out of this body. But you will be liable for criminal punishment because you have forced me to leave this body. Ramakrishna Mission says that what is the point if a man or animal is killed? The soul is immortal, so what is this? What is that? The rascals, they do not know. The real philosophy is here. The soul is destined to live in a certain body for a certain period. If you immaturely stop it, then you become responsible. Exactly like that. I am living in my apartment. If you by force drive me away, you are criminal. They do not know all these things. Imperfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Immortality. So what is his philosophy of the immortal living being? As he is immortal, his willing business is also immortal. If he accepts the living being as immortal, how he can stop-nirvāṇa—his willing?
Prabhupāda: Ah, labhate paurva-dehikam. That is everything, spiritual and material. Materially also we find sometime when one person is very extraordinary individual. In the class some student picks up very quickly, some student cannot understand. So this is continuation. One is intelligent means he has got some previous revival of his consciousness. So in this way it is going on. That is the proof, immortality of the soul. Otherwise why? Paurva-dehikam, previous birth. This is the proof.
Prabhupāda: That is nice. That immortal stage is described in the Bhāgavatam, or the Bhagavad-gītā. Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). Progress means you go, go. Gamati iti gatiḥ, or progress. You go, go, go. So when you come to this śloka... (?) Therefore in the Vedas it is said, oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Sūrayaḥ, means those who are learned, those who are advanced in knowledge. They are called sūrayaḥ. So they are always looking forward to the lotus feet of Viṣṇu. Just like modern scientists are going, trying to go to the moon planet, so when they start, they are looking forward (to) the moon planet. Similarly, those who are learned, they are simply looking forward to the lotus feet of Viṣṇu: "When I shall reach there?" That goal is there. They are not missing the goal. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is the Ṛg Veda mantra. They know their goal.
Prabhupāda: That means he believes in eternity. This loss of senses, that is we also accept that there are three stages: jāgrati, awakening, and sleeping and deep sleeping. So deep sleeping means unconsciousness. So when a man dies from awakening state, he enters into the dreaming state and then enters into the deep sleeping state. So transmigration of the soul means he gives up this gross body, and the subtle body, mind, intelligence carries him to the another body, and in another body, unless the body is prepared properly, he lives in deep sleep. And when the body is prepared at seven months for human being, then he comes to consciousness. He feels, "Oh, why I am put into this packed-up status." If he is pious he feels very uncomfortable. He prays to God—these things are described—that "Kindly excuse me from this awkward position. Now this time I shall become a devotee." This is position. The soul is immortal, but still he enters into different stages of life. Then when he comes out, the same different stages of body continues.
Prabhupāda: If it's created, then how it is immortal?
Hayagrīva: But at the same time the soul pervades the entire body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That portion which is spread all over the body, that is immortal. So this is the illumination or the shining of the soul. That the sun is situated localized in a particular place, that we can see everyday, but his illumination is distributed all over the universe. Similarly, although the soul is situated within the heart, his illumination is spread all over the body. So that is consciousness. So as soon as the soul is out from the heart, which is known as heart failure, when he leaves the heart, then what is the use of this heart? It becomes a lump of matter. Immediately consciousness is absent from the whole body. So it is upon the leaving of the soul this body there is no more consciousness. This is reasoning. Why a second before there was consciousness and after there is no consciousness? If you chopped up the body there will be no protest, there will be no feeling of pain, that "What is that?" This is reasoning, that something is missing. That soul has gone out; therefore the consciousness in the body is absent. That soul is immortal; the consciousness is also immortal. Now the consciousness, by the influence of illusory energy, is engaged in so many material things—consciousness of society, consciousness of nationality, consciousness of this, that, so many. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating movement, how the consciousness can be purified to remain only Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then his life is successful.
Prabhupāda: The religion is God worship, and everything explained there, just like immortality of the soul, that is philosophy. So it is combination of religion and philosophy that makes sense.
| Page Title: | Immortal (Other Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of Dec, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=45, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 45 |