Illusion (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"illusion" |"illusion's" |"illusioned" |"illusioning" |"illusions"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Gargamuni: What is our true identity?

Prabhupāda: Actual identity?

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Actual identity is that you are spirit soul. And this material body is your covering. Just like dress. Just like when you dress, the real body is there. Similarly, we are within this material body. So we are taking more care for the dress and not for the body actually. But when a body is dead we can understand that there is something missing. That missing thing is the soul. In the modern educational field there is no department of knowledge to understand that what is that missing part. There are so many theories, but they are not practical. Therefore we have to understand the soul and its constitution from authoritative scriptures like Bhagavad-gītā. Then we can understand our identity actually. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that persons who are identifying themselves with this material body, they are not actually human beings. They are counted amongst the asses and cows. So that is ignorance or illusion.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Prabhupāda: Because I know that's miserable life. But the dog is satisfied. By becoming a purchased slave, very much satisfied. He has no independence, always chained and always servant, eternal servant of a particular man. He can do any harmful thing by the order of the master, he's so faithful. But still, his life is miserable because he's dog. But he is satisfied. He thinks that "Oh, it is a very nice life." This is called covering power of māyā, illusion. Anyone in the most miserable condition of life he'll think, "Oh, I am very happy." Ask him, "How are you?" "Oh, very nice. Very nice."

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called māyā. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called māyā, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: The reality is this sky, clear sky, but somehow it is now covered. You cannot see the clear sky. So there is temporary, temporary illusion. Now, if I see the cloud only and if I say, "Oh, there is no sun. There is no illumination," or "There is no clear sky," that is insanity. Because I cannot see-under certain circumstances, I deny it—that is my insanity. Therefore you have to approach to a man who knows that there is sunlight, there is sun, there is clear sky... If you go there... You require all this education, knowledge. By knowledge one transcends māyā, or material existence.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: ...then where it is salvation? It is illusion.

Allen Ginsberg: Well the subjective effect is to cut...

Prabhupāda: No.

Allen Ginsberg: ...attachment during the...

Prabhupāda: Well, if you have got attachments for something material, then where is the cut-off attachment. LSD is a material chemical.

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: This is cotton. The cause is cotton. Will you like to take cotton instead of the shirt?

Guest (3): This is illusion.

Prabhupāda: Not illusion.

Guest (3): Sure.

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by illusion? Don't talk nonsense. (laughter) If I gave you lump of cotton instead of this shirt, will you accept it?

Guest (3): I'm sorry. I don't mean to argue. I am sorry.

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: This is cotton. This is cotton. Everyone knows. But if I give you a lump...

Guest (3): Do you know that? Do you know that for a fact? How do you know this is not illusion? How do you know that? Do we know anything for sure?

Prabhupāda: What proof is that is illusion?

Guest (3): No, no. Wait. The burden of the proof lies on you because I don't claim it is cotton. You claim it is cotton. So...

Prabhupāda: How do you say it is not cotton. First of all prove it.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: So the first business is to awake the conditioned souls from their illusory position, that he is thinking, "I am this body and anything in relationship with this body is very important." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. We speak of illusion, māyā. This is illusion, that "I am this body and anything in relation of this body..." I have got special relationship with certain woman, so I think, "She is my wife. I cannot do without her." Or another woman from whom I have taken birth, "She is my mother." Similarly father, similarly sons. In this way, country, society, at the most, humanity. That's all. But all these things are illusion because they are in bodily relationship. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Those who are passing on on this illusory condition of life, they are compared with the cows and the asses.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Dvandva means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called dvandva and moha. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion. What is that illusion? Accepting this body as self. So if one is contaminated by sinful activity—if he is in illusion, how he can..., illusion of accepting this body as self—what is the meaning of their self-realization? He's illusioned. He'll keep himself in all kinds of contaminated life, and artificially he thinks that by some kind of mystic meditation he'll be all right. This is going on.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is satisfied, self-sufficient. And now in your country, oh, you have to attend office fifty miles off. And because you have to take this trouble, Kṛṣṇa has provided with car. You are thinking, "I am advanced." You don't think that "Although I have got car, I have to go fifty miles off from my home." This is illusion. You are thinking, "I am advanced. I am happy. I have got this car." This is illusion. Yes. Gaurasundara was going to maintain, and he drives fifty miles off, Honolulu. The poor fellow had to rise early in the morning. You see? And so much haste.(?) Therefore: "Gaurasundara, you better give up this job. Just depend on Kṛṣṇa." So he has given up. What is this? Fifty miles going by motorcycle or motor car, how much tedious it is. But still, they are satisfied that "We are advanced." And because they have many cars, therefore in your country always there is that (makes traffic noise), "sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh," wherever I go.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Now we are with Sambhu in Bombay. As soon as the aeroplane would come on top of the house it is just like thunderbolt. Yes. At least I was feeling like that. Vajrapa. You see? So this is called illusion. We are creating a civilization which is so much painful, but we are thinking that we are advanced. This is illusion. We are creating simply problems, and still, we are thinking that we are advanced. And Bhāgavata says that there is no problem. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). You simply try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And then how I shall live? That, the answer, is tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. Just like you don't aspire for miseries, but it comes upon you, it is forced upon you, similarly, happiness also will be forced upon you, whatever you are destined to receive.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Although he is under so many restrictions and stricture of the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāṇi guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). He is so foolish and rascal that he is thinking, "I am independent." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā karta aham iti manyate. He is strictly under the stringent laws of material nature, but still, he is thinking falsely that "I am supreme. I am independent." So therefore surrender required, that "I am not supreme." That is knowledge. That is knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births of this speculation, when actually he becomes jñānavān, wise, then he surrenders." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So unless we surrender, so long we think that "I am independent, I am God, I am Supreme," these are all illusions.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: It is illusion, simply illusion. If I am God, how I have become so much dependent on the laws of material nature? Why I have accepted this body which I do not want? What kind of God I am? So the whole world is full of these ideas. So this movement is a revolutionary movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation Excerpt -- August 9, 1971, London:

Guest: There's one philosophical point I would like you to elucidate. I haven't been able to quite understand, certainly the dualistic, incomprehensible... the dualistic-nondualistic philosophy which sees at the same time Kṛṣṇa, as comprehending all of man, all of the world, everything, within the body, we might say, of Kṛṣṇa, And at the same time however, one sees the world as distinct from Kṛṣṇa, in other words, as māyā, and as illusion. And it is this, the dualistic, I would like to... If you could just explain to me the difference between the... I mean, how this fits in, the monistic or the idea of the unitary view that Kṛṣṇa is everything, all and in all. And then at the same time that the world, there is this world of illusion which is somehow distinct from Kṛṣṇa. Could you just explain this point to me?

Prabhupāda: This is very easy to understand. Just like you are recording my speeches in the tape recorder. When you play back it will speak just like I am speaking, but I am not there. Is it not fact?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It will appear now I am speaking from beyond this world. Somebody's hearing, here somebody's speaking. Again, when the record player will play... (end)

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: I have given you money, I have given you the wood, I have given you the intelligence, I have maintained you. How it belongs to you? So this is going on. Everything God's, and we are claiming "Mine." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is called illusion. I am not the proprietor, but I am thinking I am... This is called illusion. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to remove this illusion, to accept the real fact. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is nothing that is (indistinct) manufactured artificially. To come to your real position. Just like a madman has got in some consciousness. He's thinking so many crazy ways. That sort of consciousness will not help us. If we actually come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is our perfection. (break) God is the proprietor, God is the enjoyer, and God is the maintainer. Three things. So our, this movement is nothing new. It is oldest and authorized. So now if we can push on this movement, that is the greatest welfare activity in the human... (end)

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No. Sometimes it is done deliberately. Sometimes it is done deliberately because everyone in this material world is imperfect. Therefore there is tendency of cheating. That is one of the qualifications of the conditioned soul. He becomes mistaken. He becomes illusioned. He cheats and his senses are imperfect.

Dr. Weir: Well, I'm sorry I think you're using the word cheat in a much broader sense. We would use cheat as conscious mistake as opposed to a person who doesn't realize that what he says doesn't happen to be true.

Prabhupāda: No, no, conscious... Suppose you think it is right but it is wrong. That is also cheating. Without knowing the thing perfectly well, if you deliver your knowledge to somebody that's cheating.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: ...above the illusion, above cheating, above imperfection. This is God.

Śyāmasundara: There's a central premise that everything is simultaneously one and different. Just like flowers—there are many flowers, roses, but within the flowers there is variety.

Mensa Member: But still it raises the danger of another (indistinct), it really does. This is a very (indistinct) you're trying to make but it's impossible to talk about physics in the language of chemistry. It's impossible, so when...

Śyāmasundara: So when he says there's a gradation, that we see gradation, that the soul is higher than the body, this is also (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Soul is higher than the body, mind and intelligence.

Room Conversation with Mayor -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is all illusion. This jananī janma bhūmi, huh?

Devotee: I'm going for Guru dasa.

Prabhupāda: Accha. This ijya-dhīḥ, to worship the land of birth, but bhārata-bhūmi has special, it is pūjā...

Guest: That is my contention.

Prabhupāda: Not, not as nationality.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is, that you satisfy (indistinct). But this is a broad Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is broader than any system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not preaching. We don't go to preach that "Oh, we are preaching Hinduism." But because those who are accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, mostly they are Hindus, then you can call it like Hinduism. But this is not Hinduism.

Reporter: Sir, we are in illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is an illusory...

Reporter: Not illusory. I don't know how far Lalaji will go with you.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So this is..., because our puffed up condition on account of this body is illusion, because I am not this body. Therefore, brahma-bhūtaḥ, those who are self-realized, they are prasannātmā. Any condition of life they are happy, jolly.

Dr. Singh: Swamiji, if Īśa is everywhere, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), then surely He is in the body also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So that was Vedic civilization. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, everyone is expert, but every is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no bodily barrier. No. "Because I have got a particular type of body, therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is forbidden for me." No, that is not. In any body, any circumstances, you can cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But not material. But people, they do not know. They think that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no need, but let me improve my bodily comfort." This is called illusion. He cannot improve, even by an inch, the burden, but still... But you can improve, or you can purify, your consciousness.

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. māyā, another meaning: illusion. So foolish persons, the energy is accepted as the energetic. That is māyā. Just like sunshine. Sunshine enters your room. Sunshine is the energy of the sun. But because the sunshine has entered in your room you cannot say the sun has entered. If sun enters, then your room and yourself, everything will be finished immediately. (laughter) You'll not have the leisure to understand that sun has entered. Is it not?

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Janasya moho 'yam. This is the illusion. And by this illusion he becomes ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), "I am this body, and anything in relationship with this body, that is mine."

Bob: What is that again?

Prabhupāda: This attachment increases. The material attachment. The material attachment means "I am this body, and because I have got this body in a particular place, that is my country." And that is going on. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," this bodily... "This is my country. I shall sacrifice everything for my country, society." So in this way the illusion becomes increased. So under this illusion, when he dies he gets another body.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is māyā, illusion. That is an ass. You sit down on the back of the ass and just take a morsel of grass. He'll go. The ass is thinking, "Let me go forward little, and I shall get the ass, er, grass." But it is... One feet distant it always remains. That is ass-ism. (laughter) That is not... Everyone is thinking, "Let me go a little forward, and I'll get it. (break) ...get it, be very happy."

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, we must practice sādhana-bhakti, which means to offer maṅgala-ārati (Deity worship) in the morning, to refrain from certain material activities, to offer obeisances to the spiritual master and to follow many other rules and regulations which will be discussed here, one after another. These practices will help one to become cured of madness. As a man's mental disease is cured by the directions of a psychiatrist, so this sādhana-bhakti cures the conditioned soul of his madness under the spell of maya, or material illusion.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. When a servant is thinking, "I am master," that is called illusion. And when a servant thinks "I am servant," that is not illusion; that is mukti. That is liberation. Because he is not controlled by a false thought. Try to think about this subject matter. A devotee is never controlled by a false thought. He knows his position. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Mukti, liberation, means to be situated in his own constitutional position. That is called mukti, liberation. I am servant, so if I know that "I am servant," that is my liberation. And I am servant; if I think "I am master," that is his bondage. That is the difference between conditioned life and liberated life. So these Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee, they're always thinking that they are servants of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all, they are all liberated. They haven't got to endeavor for liberation. They are already liberated, because they are situated in their constitutional position. They're not artificially thinking that "I am master." Otherwise everyone is thinking, "I am master." Everyone is thinking. That is illusion.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Then we can understand things as they are. So we are training our students in that way. If anyone is serious, then he can make his life successful, even during this span of life. So I'm very glad that you have got this attitude. So it is very simple thing. Hm? There is a Bengali verse, (Bengali). Just like a person ghostly haunted, he speaks so many nonsense, up to somebody's declaring "I am God." First of all "I am this; I am that. I am this; I am that. I want to become this. I want to become this." And when he is frustrated with everything, then he says, "I am God." That is also another illusion. How you can become God? So, insanity. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means sanity, that's all. So to come to that position of sanity, Lord Caitanya has given us very simple method: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If anyone sincerely chants without any offense, then his life is successful.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: They are getting money from other karmīs, so why they should come? They are thinking that "As family man we must make money." Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair , huh? House, land, children, friends, money for increasing their illusion. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). (indistinct) He does not know that he is being finished, and he's thinking that "I am making profit." Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta. This rascal, he's being defeated. He does not know. He got the chance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness; he sacrificed Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And he is attracted by little pounds, dollars. (pause) But his wife is good, Balai dāsī. She is coming.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: That was his contemplation. Therefore he was taught Bhagavad-gītā. And after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he agreed to Kṛṣṇa's proposal. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā: (BG 18.73) "Now my illusion is gone. I have got my real consciousness, so I shall fight." So the fighting was Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when he was trying to become nonviolent, very benevolent to the family, he was chastised by Kṛṣṇa. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādām: (BG 2.11) "You are talking like a very learned man but you are fool." So this is our position. We may talk very learned, scholarly, but if we have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we are subjected to the chastisement. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). So this is the position. So nothing is bad if it is engaged for the service of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, however good it may be in the estimation of material conception, it is the cause of bondage, good or bad. It doesn't matter. So you have to learn the art, how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That art you have to learn. Then your life is perfect.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand one point. Don't jump like that. The same thing is applicable to parents and everything. There is no love in this world. That is illusion.

Guest (2): Is it like service to parents without expecting anything from them because they have raised you, they have...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your duty.

Guest (2): Yes, duty.

Prabhupāda: That's your duty. Just like to... I do not say that don't love your wife and don't love your parents. But I am just explaining the real situation.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: So you have to develop your love for Kṛṣṇa; then Kṛṣṇa will be seen. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Just like sun. You cannot see sun at night, but when sun becomes revealed before you you can see sun and yourself and the whole world. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa will reveal, being pleased with your service and love, you will see Kṛṣṇa, you will see yourself, you will see the whole world. So simply you have to... Just like one man is suffering from cataract. So by surgical operation make the eyes free from the cataract disease—he will see everything. Similarly, the cataract of your present eyes, material eyes, can be, I mean to say, relieved by Kṛṣṇa prema. Then you will see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, premā pum-artho mahān. If anything has to be achieved within this world, that is Kṛṣṇa prema. That we should engage our life, how to achieve Kṛṣṇa prema. But we are not interested in Kṛṣṇa prema. So that is illusion. Human life is meant for achieving that stage, Kṛṣṇa prema, love of Kṛṣṇa. Then life is successful.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Naturalist. Anyway, you can call him a philosopher. So the basic point is wrong. Starting is wrong. Starting point is mistake and illusion. Therefore, the next point is cheating. If you start from wrong conception of life, then if you distribute knowledge, that means cheating. You do not know, still you are distributing knowledge. But this rascal Darwin, he has no clear idea. He is simply theorizing, speculating, and misleading people. Therefore, he is cheating. So if I cheat you and you cheat me, then how you can expect perfection of life? It is a society of cheating, and that is actually going on. Everyone is thinking, "How I have gorgeous way cheated you." That is politics, diplomacy. If you can cheat your friend very cleverly, then you are supposed to be very big man. Big lawyer means the law is there, but if he can cheat the law, then he is big lawyer.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not Kali-yuga. This is the symptom of conditioned soul. It is very prominent now in this age. Conditioned soul means these four defects—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat others, and imperfectness of the senses. The scientists say that we do not know, that means imperfectness of sense. I am trying to see but the cloud is checking me, and I am considering beyond this cloud there is nothing. That is imperfectness of my seeing. Not... It is not a fact that beyond the cloud there is nothing. So these things are going on—cheating, illusion, mistake, and imperfect. And they are trying to come to a right conclusion. Just like somebody was telling that there is going to be a big conference of the Catholics to consider what wrong they have done. They can see that the people are rejecting the so-called Christian religion. So now they are thinking (indistinct). But it is also another cheating. They are deliberately violating the principles of Christian religion, and still they say, "What we have done?"

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Fire, mind, intelligence, ego. These eight elements. Kṛṣṇa says that "They are my energies." The things which are made by Kṛṣṇa's energy, how you can claim your property? Suppose a carpenter comes, you give him money to prepare some chair. The money is your energy. Now when the chair is prepared, he cannot claim that "I have prepared this chair. It is my property." No. It has been made with my energy; therefore it is my property. So if you make analysis of this whole cosmic situation you will find that everything is made out of the energy of God. Then how you can claim that "I am proprietor"? This is false. This is called māyā. Just like we have seen in Calcutta when there was a (indistinct) during the transition state. Britishers are going on. There was a great Hindu-Muslim riot. Now they fought, Hindus and Muslims, and they died. After death, they're lying piles of dead body. No more Hindu and Muslim. It is simply lump of matter. But because they got a type of body, a type of mental situation, consciousness, they fought with one another, and then after death, no more claiming "Hindu" and "Muslim." This is called illusion. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that"—these are all designation. Really what I am? I am pure soul, part and parcel of God. That is my identity. So people should be taught this science. As soon as one understands his constitutional position, his actual situation, then he says, "Oh, I am not this. I was struggling so hard under some misidentification."

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee: "The conditioned souls in the clutches of the illusory energy are all anxious to attain peace in the material world. They do not know the formula for peace which is explained in this part of the Bhagavad-gītā. The greatest peace formula is simply this. Lord Kṛṣṇa is the beneficiary in all human activities. Men should offer everything to the transcendental service of the Lord because He is the proprietor of all planets and the demigods thereon. No one is greater than He. He is greater than the greatest of the demigods, Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā. In the Vedas the Supreme Lord is described as param īśvarānāṁ paramaṁ maheśvaram. Under the spell of illusion, living entities are trying to be lords of all they survey. But actually they are dominated by the material energy of the Lord. The Lord is the master of material nature and the conditioned souls are under the stringent rules of material nature."

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Lord is the master of material nature, and we are conditioned by the material nature and still we are claiming, "I am God." Then?

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Śyāmasundara: Have money to expand. Everything is going nice. It is organized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Management means everything is in order, otherwise what is the illusion of (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, it is illusory. Just like I see there is water in the desert. There is no water. This is illusion. But actually there is water. Therefore I get the conception that there is water. Water is there, but it is not there. Similarly these varieties is here, what we see, the varieties, enjoyment, that is only like that mirage. We have got the experience of water. But we are illusioned. We are seeing in a false place there is water. Similarly, we living entities, we are meant for enjoyment, but we are seeking enjoyment in a false place. Or illusion. Just like animal runs after that desert water. But the intelligent man knows: "Oh, that, there is no water. It looks like water."

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, there is no, actually there is no water. But the animal runs after that water and dies out of thirst. Because they, he cannot satiate his thirst by such illusory water. Similarly we, ignorant, avidyā kāma-karmabhiḥ, we are trying to manufacture so many things to satisfy our thirst of joyfulness, but we are being baffled. Because it is illusion. Therefore real intelligence is: "Then where is the reality? Where is real water?" That is intelligence. Bhāgavata gives: vāstava-vastu vedyam atra. Vāstava vastu. "Real reality, you'll find here."

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: I, I, I am traveling all over the world. My opinion is that, materially, America is happy. And spiritually some portion of India is happy. Otherwise, there is no happiness all over the world. And material happiness is illusion. That is not happiness. Because it will break at any time. Therefore that is not happiness. And spiritual happiness is real happiness. So in Russia, there is neither material nor spiritual. So they are unhappy in all respects. I asked Professor Kotovsky to call for a taxi. So he said: "Well, it is Moscow. Very difficult to get taxi." So he came down himself, he showed us this way: "Please go in this way, in this way, and you get (to) your hotel." He's a big man. He knows that taxi will not be available. And there are few taxis only, show. I did not see any store very neat and clean, well-decorated. Not a single. All old with dust. As if antique shop. The antique shop, just like in your country. I was daily having my morning walk in the Red Square.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They know. Because they have full knowledge, "He knows here is God. Although he is four-handed, I am four-handed, but here is God." Because there is full knowledge. That is the difference. Here we are selecting some rascal as God, because we have no full knowledge. There, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, although the common citizens and God is of the same feature of the bodily, but they know, "Here is God, the Supreme." He has got special signs in the... Yes, that's all. Just like the king or the president, we may make mistake. We may accept somebody as "Here is president." No. But the associates of the president, he knows. They know that "Here is president." Similarly, there is no question of mistake there. Four kinds of defects of material life—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat, and imperfection of the senses—these things are not there. Everyone's senses are perfect. When he sees God, he sees perfectly. He does not mistake. He is not illusioned. And there is no cheating and there is no imperfection of the senses. There is no mistake. These are spiritual life.

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, illusion, these are illusions. Āja-gala-stana-nyāya is applied for these rascals, those who are thinking that from matter life is coming. Exactly the same. They are thinking that here are nipples, there will milk come. Let us milk here.

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He is not above the defects, four defects of conditioned life. You know these four defects?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Illusion, mistake, cheating, imperfectness. They are aware of the imperfectness of the senses. Still they are proud of their knowledge. This is illusion.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Śrutikīrti:

naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā

tvat-prasādān mayācyuta

sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ

kariṣye vacanaṁ tava

(BG 18.73)

"Arjuna said: My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy, and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."

Prabhupāda: There it is. "I am prepared now to act according to Your whims." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When he was trying to act according to his whim, the necessity of instruction of Bhagavad-gītā was there. And when he heard Bhagavad-gītā, he's changed. "Now this is..., all doubts are gone. At last I will act according to your..." This is... Very important verse. Changing. Changing the whole picture. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Same Arjuna, same fighting, same battlefield, everything same, but still everything changed. The consciousness is changed. Externally nothing changed; internally changed. This change is equal for perfection.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: After nirvāṇa, or material cessation, there is the manifestation of spiritual activities, or devotional service of the Lord, known as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the words of the Bhāgavatam, svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ: this is the "real life of the living entity." Māyā, or illusion, is the condition of spiritual life contaminated by material infection. Liberation from this material infection does not mean destruction of the original eternal position of the living entity. Patañjali also accepts this by his words kaivalyam svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti. This citi-śakti or transcendental pleasure, is real life. This is confirmed in the Vedānta-sūtras as ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This natural transcendental pleasure is the ultimate goal of yoga and is easily achieved by execution of devotional service, or bhakti-yoga. Bhaktiyoga will be vividly described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The exact word, in Bengali, there is a poet,

kṛṣṇa-bhuliyā-jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyāra tare jāpaṭiyā dhare

As soon as the living entity forgets his position as eternal servant of God, and he wants to imitate God to enjoy, at that time, māyā, illusion, or Satan captures him, captures him.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Is true. The man must imitate God, imitating His bounty, His...

Prabhupāda: Power.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. His mind and His knowledge of the spiritual sense. But it is possible to man without the helping of God to realize his perfection?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Cardinal Danielou: It is necessary that the grace of God help the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. By the help of God, he can revive.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it is, we are discussing this point, that this illusion is going on. But human form of life, a human being can get out of this illusion. We have got sufficient sources of knowledge, especially in the Vedic knowledge. So why do we not take advantage of this knowledge and make our life successful? Yes. That is my proposal. And we are struggling with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement with this purpose only, that these people are missing the point and wasting their time and life unnecessarily under some illusion. To try to save them, that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (break) ...talked with so many Christian priests. Naturally while discussing I asked them that "In your Bible it is said, 'Thou shall not kill.' Why you are maintaining slaughterhouse?" They cannot answer properly. In this way and this way they try to avoid and support this slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Just like if there is no rain, you cannot do anything. Your so-called science and advancement of knowledge will not be able to help. Or if there is over flood. That also you cannot do anything. Therefore you have to accept there is a controller of this raining. It is not under my control. That is nature. But nature is working under the direction of God. Behind the background of nature is God. Just like background of police force is the government. Similarly, background of the stringent laws of nature is God. That they do not understand. They're struggling with the natural laws. And that struggle they are taking as advancement. That's all. It is a struggle. But they're taking it as advancement. This is called illusion. It is not advancement. It is simply struggle. But they're taking it as advancement. Such a great, powerful man like Napoleon, Hitler, they struggled only. Later on, they vanquished. So what to speak of others? Such big, big men, they struggled against the nature, but they vanquished. Nature is there. Nature is always victorious. So we have to own over victory over the nature. That is only possible if you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, not. Do you think we are right in our statement.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Eh. Yeah. Therefore, if we have to acquire knowledge, we must go to a person who does not commit mistake, who is not illusioned. There are four defects in the conditioned soul: to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat others, and imperfectness of senses. One may declare himself that he's perfect in knowledge, but his senses are imperfect. So how he can call himself that he has got the perfect knowledge by speculative method?

Professor: Hm.

Prabhupāda: The instrument which he is using for speculation, that instrument itself is imperfect.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we call it is illusion, māyā. Just like I showed you.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, the reflection.

Prabhupāda: Reflection. I, in morning walk, the sun was reflected in a glass exactly it is brilliant as sun. So I showed him: "This is called māyā, illusion. There is no sun, but it appears like sun. Exactly. And it is illuminating also." Reflection of the moon. So one who is less intelligent, he'll see: "Oh, here is a sun, another sun." So he's a madman. One who sees the sun reflection in the glass as sun, he's illusioned. He's mad. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also psychiatrist movement.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But if we begin from the perfect, the conclusion will be perfect. What are the four defects? Explain.

Haṁsadūta: Uh, four de... Every conditioned soul, you or I, anyone, born in this material world, he's defective by four things. He has got imperfect senses. Just like you don't see what's happening beyond the wall. So this is imperfection of the senses. There are so many examples. The next thing is you're subjected to be illusioned. You may accept a thing for real which is not real. Just like we accept the body as self, but we are not the body. The body is a lump of matter. We are simply witnessing the changes of the body, but we are not the... So this is illusion. Then...

Prabhupāda: Mistakes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Cheating.

Haṁsadūta: Has a propensity for cheating. Propensity for cheating means that although he's imperfect senses, subject to make mistake and he's illusioned, he will write books giving...

Prabhupāda: Instructions.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Then that means illusioned. You are not confident, but you accept that theory. This is illusion.

Dr. Hauser: But... Yes. But...

Prabhupāda: But you should apply your reason, from practical life, whether life is produced from matter, or matter is produced from life. Our proposition is: matter is produced from life, not life is produced from matter. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said: janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Absolute Truth is that from whom or from which everything emanates. Now that Absolute Truth, whether he's life or dead stone. So that is discussed: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). That Absolute Truth must be cognizant. So as soon as you say cognizant, then He's alive. Abhijñaḥ. That, that means if I say: "I have produced all these things that is within the room," then means I must have brain. I must be experienced how to do it. How I can be dead, matter? Has the matter has got such thing? The origin of creation must be a living being.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: That is illusion. We are attached to them.

Dr. Hauser: Yes, we are attached to them also because they have power over us. They can persecute us and they can... So it's very...

Prabhupāda: No, the greater power is Kṛṣṇa. If you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, they cannot do anything. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a five years old boy. He took shelter of Kṛṣṇa and his father was a great demon, very powerful. He wanted to chastise his boy. He could not. This is the proof. So you take shelter. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pape... (BG 18.66). "I give you protection." So people have no faith although He's God. He thinks God is less powerful than Hitler. That is his nonsense. If he takes actually shelter of Kṛṣṇa, what this rascal, Hitler, can do? But he has no faith in God. He thinks Prabhu Hitler is greater than Lord. Prabhu Hitler. That is the difference between the crows and the swans. The crows think that we have got food in the garbage. And the swans think that we have got food in nice garden, in the clear water. And that is difference even in the birds kingdom. That is explained in the previous verse. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo, jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10). Read that, previous to this verse.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. So Napoleon was. But before constructing that arch, he was finished in battle of Waterloo. So all the struggle he made to make France a great country and him to become a great leader was futile. It was not perfectly done. In one statue I saw, "France and Napoleon identical." But France is there; where is Napoleon? Therefore it is called illusion, māyā. Just like our Gandhi, in this country, he struggled so hard, got independence. But just after independence he was killed, finished. He could not enjoy. He simply struggled. You cannot say that he had no desire to enjoy. Then how he was sticking to that politics? And because he was sticking to that politics, he was killed. If he would have retired from politics, he would not have been killed. Therefore because he was sticking to that politics means he wanted to enjoy the fruit. But he could not. Therefore we do not know what is the perfection of life. Because we create so-called paraphernalia of perfection of life, but we are not allowed to enjoy it, therefore we must accept, "There is superior power. Without His sanction I may create very favorable situation, but I may not be allowed to enjoy it." Suppose you are bank manager. If the post is that "Yes, you will be appointed to day and tomorrow you will be kicked out." Will you accept it?

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Kīrtanānanda, his argument was, when he was an atheist, he said that actually the void is truth, and all categories or all varieties are illusion. So he said that we may think that actually spiritual variegatedness is transcendental, but that's actually also our illusion. That was his argument.

Prabhupāda: So what did you reply?

Hṛdayānanda: I replied that if categories are illusion, then his talking is also illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice.

Hṛdayānanda: So I wouldn't let him say anything else.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, very good reply. "And you are also illusioned. Whatever nonsense you are talking, that is also illusion. Finish. Void, everything." Then what did he reply?

Hṛdayānanda: He said... I just wouldn't let him say anything. Whenever he tried to talk, I just said, "That's illusion." (break)

Prabhupāda: This reply we give to the Māyāvādīs. So we speak to the Māyāvādī guru, that "Whether you are in māyā? Because everything is māyā, so whether you are also in māyā?" So if he says, "Yes," then how he can become guru?

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Professor Bharati said that. And when the students asked him, "Isn't everything in this world illusion?", he said, "Yes, everything is illusion, but I like it very much."

Prabhupāda: He likes it very much.

Karandhara: That's what he said.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he is a rascal. That proves that he is a rascal.

Hṛdayānanda: After that debate, many, many people have bought Bhagavad-gītās.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then it is good triumph. Yes. (begins chanting japa) (break) ...ponds like this, we remember immediately Bengal. Yes. In Bengal there are many, many ponds. (pause) What is called, this playing? What is this? Golf?

Hṛdayānanda: Golf course.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Queen of Greece. This cloth is very inconvenient... (break) ...illusion. Accepting this illusion, wherefrom the idea came? Just like in the tailor's window, there are nice beautiful women or men standing. That is illusion. Actually, that is neither man or woman. It is doll. But wherefrom the idea came of this illusion?

Hṛdayānanda: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Unless there is a real man, a real woman, how the illusory man and woman is there, doll? Illusion means which is not fact. So the fact must be there; otherwise how the illusion, reflection, comes? Illusion is exemplified by the mirage, water in the desert. So the man is or the animal is running after water, but that is not water. This is illusion. But that does not mean there is no water. This is the conclusion. Unless there is real water, how... (aside) You can give around here. How this illusion of water is there?

Bali Mardana: Does that mean it is not possible to conceive of something that does not exist somewhere?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real fact.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Some of them say that Brahman creates illusion to forget that he is Brahman. They say that Brahman, the one, creates illusion to forget that he's Brahman. That's his līlā.

Prabhupāda: It is līlā. Then you have to accept that Brahman is a person.

Karandhara: Well, they say there is only one person. There's no varieties of persons.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you have to accept the origin, the person. That is our philosophy. Then you accept our philosophy.

Karandhara: Then they say, "Well it's not exactly a person, it's inconceivable."

Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot say that He is not a person, because He is inconceivable. You cannot say whether He is person or not person, because you are illusioned, and inconceivable... But why you are thinking that because you cannot say perfectly, everyone cannot say perfectly? You are thinking like that. Just like we have got experience: one body cannot say something, but the other can say. Practical experience. Just like this child cannot say something but the father can say.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise He is not Brahman. Brahman means the greatest. Brahman means the greatest, and He is Para-brahman. There are greatest demigods like Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, but He's greater than them. He says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Brahmā and Śiva, they have come out from Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. So Brahmā, Śiva may not know, but that does not mean Kṛṣṇa does not know. So we are receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. We are not receiving. Or we are receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa's representative, who knows Kṛṣṇa. So that is our position. We are not as good as Kṛṣṇa, just the Māyāvādī rascals say. No. We are nothing. We have no value. But we accept what Kṛṣṇa says. That is our qualification. A child is ignorant, but if he speaks what he has learned from his father, that speaking is perfect. Similarly, we admit we are in illusion. But what we are speaking, because that is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, that is not illusion. That is not illusion. That is perfect.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Mistake, There cannot be... That is the difference between God and ourself. We are living entity, God is also living entity. But He has no four defects. We have got four defects. We commit mistake, we are illusioned, our senses are imperfect, and we cheat. God does not do all these things. That is the difference between God and ourselves. He does not commit mistake. He is not illusioned. He does not cheat, and His senses are perfect. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26).

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in technological enlargement or prolongation of our senses, we are also defective, of course.

Prabhupāda: Because we are defective. This material existence means defective existence. This defection not there.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is also... You see... In Vṛndāvana I showed you? The dogs were starving, but as soon as he gets another female dog, oh, he is satisfied. To have sex. Oh. You see. So is that satisfaction? He is starving. The belly has gone down, and still, he is satisfied with sex. You see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's called illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is illusion. Actually, he is not satisfied.

Karandhara: You once gave the example, Prabhupāda of the drunkards in New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You see? That is the qualification of conditioned soul: To become a cheater, and to become cheated. This is the condition. To become a cheater is one of the conditions of material life. The four defects: He must commit mistake, he must be illusioned, and he must cheat, and his senses are imperfect. These are the four qualifications of the materialistic person.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why not? They have to admit Just like I gave you the example that you cannot see how many stars are there, but there are. If you say, "I don't see it, I don't believe it," that is your foolishness. That is your foolishness. You have to admit that your senses are limited. They are not perfect. That is the four defects of the conditioned soul: he commits mistake, he is illusioned, he cheats, and his senses are imperfect.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And what is that? Good morning. Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are three stages. First stage of understanding is direct perception, by senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Here, from the material platform, our source of knowledge is direct perception. That is crude, pratyakṣa. It is called pratyakṣa. That is crude knowledge, direct perception. Just like I am seeing the sun. I am getting some idea of the sun, but that is not the perfect idea, although I am seeing it daily. I am seeing just like a disc, but it is very, very big. So my direct perception cannot give me perfect knowledge. The first... Besides that, at our present stage, material condition, we are imperfect because we commit mistake. By direct seeing the sun, I am thinking that it is just like a disc. Then we are illusioned. We, sometimes we accept something for something. Then, with this imperfect knowledge, we try to become teacher. That is cheating. And at the end, our senses are imperfect. So with so many imperfectness, how we can get perfect knowledge? What is your answer?

Professor: I have no answer.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Well, in a madhouse, a sane man is the only one considered mad.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." That is already there. So we have to act by the order of Kṛṣṇa, not by the votes of the madmen. Just see the fun. Everyone is under control. Who is free? It is simply illusion. They are thinking, "I am free." Nobody is free. Under the stringent laws of nature, and still, he is thinking, "I don't care for God." This is madness. This is madness. Already under the laws of God, but still, he's protesting, "No, I don't care for God. There is no God." So we have to save these madmen from further deterioration. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's all. This kind of election is rascal election. It has no meaning. Therefore the public must know whom to elect and how to elect. That should be our propaganda. Because nowadays it is democratic government, teach people how to select the real leader. Real leader means who does not commit mistake, who is not illusioned, who does not cheat and who has no imperfect senses, who has, or, other words, one who has got perfect senses. So if you say, "How it is possible for the conditioned soul?" "Yes, it is possible if you follow the perfect." Just like we are doing. We are following Kṛṣṇa. He does not commit mistake, He is not illusioned, His senses are not imperfect, and He does not cheat. We are following. Therefore, although we are imperfect, because we are following the perfect, our proposition is perfect. A child may be illiterate, but when he's taught, "Write A like this," and he follows that, he becomes literate. This is the policy.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Normal chemicals must be. Then of the whole world... The material world is made of chemicals. So wherever you go and see, the chemicals in different, what is called, element, they are present. You cannot see but chemicals because you have no eyes to see the soul. So you simply see the chemicals which is produced by the soul. Just like anything you keep for some time, when it is decomposed, you find so many chemicals, extra. So now they are mistaking. The chemicals are not... They are effects, they are not cause. When a thing is decomposed, you'll find so many extra chemicals. Our point is that because a thing is decomposed, so many chemicals come out, not that on account of these chemicals it has given... A dead body. A dead body—not that because the chemicals have come, therefore he is dead, no. Because the body is dead, therefore so many chemicals have been produced. Try to convince this rascal like that, that "You are seeing the extra chemicals. They are not cause, they are effect." Sometimes when a rascal cannot understand two things, which is cause and which is effect, they misunderstand effect as cause or cause and effect. That is imperfect knowledge, illusion, taking the effect as cause. That is their mistake. Whole basic principle of their knowledge is mistake, illusion, on account of imperfect senses, and they are cheating. On account of imperfect senses, they cannot understand what is cause and what is effect. And without knowledge, they have become teacher. Therefore they are not teacher but cheater. This is the conclusion.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Because I said about authority... So this is fact. Now, in Russia the authority was the Czar. Now, after this Bolshevik revolution, Lenin became authority. That was his point. I said that you have to accept one authority. That you cannot change. That he said, that "Yes, that I accept, but authority has to be changed by revolution." And yes, we accept that. But the ult... When you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness authority, then there is no more necessity of change." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Everyone is trying to achieve the greatest profit. So when he gets Kṛṣṇa, he is satisfied. No more profit. Final profit. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. So there is no more necessity of revolution because that is the ultimate peaceful condition. So if you do not come to the ultimate condition of peace, then this revolutionary method will go on, continue. There will be no cessation of revolution, one after, one... That is māyā, illusion. I am thinking by going a few steps, mirage, I will get the water. But there is no water at all. It is simply illusion. And as soon as you go a few steps forward, you see that the water has gone away, again, few steps forward. You go again. Again you see. This is going on. So animal, they go forward after the mirage. But a sensible man, he knows that "This is not water. It appears like water, but it is not water." Therefore we are making revolution, changing one authority from another, but we do not know they are not authorities. Real authority is Kṛṣṇa. That is their... Therefore it is called illusion or māyā.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is your theory that because the cells were working, the man was living. That is your theory. But our theory is that because he was there, the cells were working. That is our theory. Because the soul was there, therefore the cells were working. But you take... That I have already explained. You take the cause as effect, and effect as... Because you have no sufficient knowledge. Therefore in illusion, you take the cause as effect or effect as cause. You do not know what is the cause and what is the effect.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

He is being pulled by the ear, by material nature, but he is, rascal, thinking that "I am the boss." This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. Did you not read this? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Puffed up in false egotism, he is thinking that he is boss. That is illusion. He is not boss. But he is thinking he is boss. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. One who is thinking that "I am boss," he is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha. By false egotism and being a rascal, he is thinking like that. And because everyone is under that impression, therefore we say generally, "Rascal. Rascal."

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you have to pay for that. You cannot put others into difficulty because God is equally merciful to everyone. But you don't care for God. Therefore you do whimsically whatever you like. So you are putting yourself in difficulty. This is the position. (break) ...mahad-guṇāḥ. Therefore without God consciousness, nobody is qualified. Nobody is qualified. Everyone is damned, condemned. (break) ...asato dhāvato bahiḥ. By mental speculation he will simply prolong his material existence, that's all. And that is troublesome. Material existence means just this. The dog is material existence. It is a standard of suffering. But he does not know. Under illusion he is thinking that "I am very happy." So everyone is thinking that "I am very happy," but he's in condemned condition. The pig. He is eating stool, living in a filthy place, but he is getting fat because he is thinking he is very happy. This is called illusion. You are thinking, "Oh, what a nasty condition. This animal is eating stool and living in a filthy place." But he is thinking that he is very happy. Unless he thinks like that, he cannot live in that condition. That is called illusion. He does not know what is the actual high standard of happiness.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (in the car) They are, the so-called scientists, they are taking the effects as cause. That is illusion. Actually the soul has nothing to do with this, anything, material world, but according to the environment he is creating certain material condition. (break) I don't require liquor, but if I want to be intoxicated, then liquor is present.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Insane, yes. So they are all insane. Anyone who has no clear knowledge what is the aim of life, what is God, "what is my relationship," one who does not know all these things, he is a bokā, illusioned. He is hovering in darkness. Therefore, whatever he is doing, it is defeat. That we see practically. So many scientists, so many philosophers, politicians, are engaged to bring in a better condition in the world, but they are failure. In the darkness they are working. They do not know. One bokā is trying to excel another bokā. This is going on. (break) ...great personality, Rabindranath Tagore, he used to say, a bokā. Actually he is so. What he has done? He has given some imaginary songs, that's all. What benefit the people will derive out of it? Simply waste of time, that's all.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Māyāvādī means those who are in māyā, those who are thinking Kṛṣṇa as one of the human beings, for them, to delude them, He left the body. But actually He departed in His own body. There is no question of... Here is another... But just like this is also, this material world... This is also Kṛṣṇa's body. But this is interesting to the Māyāvādīs, the so-called scientists, so-called philosophers. But it is not interesting to the devotees. They are thinking, "This is all." Is not that? The scientists, the philosophers, they are thinking, "This is all. There is nothing beyond this." This is illusion. This is only reflection of the reality.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ mameti janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. He is not that, but he is thinking, "I am this." That is animalism. The animal is always thinking that "I am this body."

Girirāja: So if somebody no longer identifies with the body, what is his perception of a painful condition?

Prabhupāda: He tolerates. He knows. Just like the same example. You are not the car . If your car is smashed, although you feel sorry, but you know that "I am not a car." That is the position.

Rūpānuga: So the pain is experienced by the consciousness that is spread all over the body?

Prabhupāda: That is false. That is called illusion. You are not painful, but you are thinking that "I am painful." But that is illusion.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you do it. Do it. That is intelligence. Here is the only systematic way to understand God. You simply try to understand the first verse of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then everything is explained there. Now you can... I have explained that, what is meant by God. God means the source of everything. Where is that theologician who can deny it? The first proposition is "God is that which is the source of everything." Now the next question will be, "What is that source, animate or inanimate?" Just like the scientists, they are claiming matter. This should be discussed. Then you come to the conclusion, "He must be animate." Then next question is "Wherefrom the animation came?" Then the conclusion should be that "He is self-sufficient. There is no need of cause." Then "Why people cannot understand?" That answer is that "Even great, great personality like Brahmā, Indra, they also bewildered." In this way, everything is there in that verse, systematical. Yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā. Now this material world is also creation of God, but it is shadow; it is not reality. The reality is where there is no illusion, and that is spiritual kingdom.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, "Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities." This is modern economy. So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that "I am getting money." He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. "Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods." This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor. So production is more. And when you go to purchase the products, then you have to pay again. Whatever you have earned, you have to pay everything, pay to the bank or pay to the man. Simply cheating process is going on. There is no solution. People are cheaters. They have been taught how to cheat. Everyone has got a cheating propensity. That is conditioned life. Four defects: to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat and imperfectness of the senses. So cheating propensity everyone has got. So that cheating propensity is being encouraged more and more. Instead of minimizing it or stop it, it is being encouraged.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is happening because there is discharge of semina, night pollution. But where is that girl? Is it not dream? So similarly this is also dream. You are having the effect of truthfulness, but it is a dream. Māyā... Therefore it is called māyā-sukhāya. The same thing, that at night you are dreaming you are embracing nice beautiful girl, as there is no such thing, similarly, in the daytime also, whatever advancement you are making, this is also like that. Māyā-sukhāya. We are happy, we are dreaming, "This process will make me happy. This process will make me happy." But the whole process is dream only. You are taking this day-dream as reality because the duration is long. At night, when you dream, the duration is for half an hour. And this is for twelve hours, or more than that. That is the difference. It is a twelve hours' dream, and that is half an hour dream. But actually, both of them are dream. And because it is twelve hours' dream, you are taking it as, accepting it as real. That is called illusion.

Bahulāśva: Illusion.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali-mardana: One who actually understands the distinction, is it possible that he will still choose to be controlled by the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has already chosen. But he's foolish. He does not know. He thinks that "I am now independent of the Supreme Lord." But because he's foolish, he cannot understand that you are not independent. You are being controlled by another agent of God. And because, although he's being controlled, he's thinking, "I am free," therefore he's in illusion. This is called illusion. Illusion means something which is not fact. That is illusion. So this materialist, the so-called scientist, he's thinking, "There is no God. We are independent." So many things, like rascal they are thinking. Foolish rascal, childish. And that is illusion. Ahaṅkāra-vimudhātmā. Therefore this very word is used, vimūḍhātmā: "befooled rascal." Actually, he's being controlled by material nature. So how to get out of this material nature? That is explained, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "As soon as that rascal surrenders unto Me, immediately he's out of control." Hare Kṛṣṇa. How these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians can refute this arrangement? Is it possible?

Bali-mardana: Yes, they refuse.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: They refuse. That is..., means rascaldom. They do not actually understand the fact. How they can refuse? Every moment they are controlled by the material nature. Every step.

Bali-mardana: The thing is that they do not realize. They are in illusion. They do not realize...

Prabhupāda: That is... That means... Therefore we say they are rascals. They do not realize the fact. Therefore, rascal. Rascal means who do not understand the real fact.

Satsvarūpa: They say that we are also under the control of nature?

Prabhupāda: What?

Satsvarūpa: They don't see that we, that the devotee is actually free of the material nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That is another māyā's illusion. Unless he thinks it is pleasurable, how he can tolerate? Just like the pig, eating stool. Everyone is thinking, "Aoww", but unless he thinks pleasurable, how he can eat? That is another concession of māyā. Praksepātmikā, āvaraṇātmikā. He's covered by illusion. He is accepting the most abominable thing, but he's thinking, "I'm enjoying." This is called māyā.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): ...the māyā, the māyā of God makes, makes a man identify himself with his body, but it is, that's an illusion, and it's God's play that sometimes..., it's God's play that sometimes a man ignorantly identifies himself with the body, and through God's grace the bonds of ignorance are..., he is released from the bonds of ignorance through God's grace.

Prabhupāda: By God's grace, what happens?

Guest (1): One cannot... One achieves, one attains love for God, pure love. And, uh, by loving God, one, one, uh, one's..., one no longer identifies himself with his body.

Prabhupāda: So result of loving God, what it is?

Guest (1): Without loving God?

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You cannot deny Him. That is surrender. Then, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā he said "Yes, I shall do that." So long I deny Kṛṣṇa that is disunity, and as soon as I agree, "Kṛṣṇa, yes." Then this unity. Unity does not mean that Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna become united, homogeneous. No. Kṛṣṇa is distinct and Arjuna. They continue to exist. In the beginning Arjuna was denying to fight. That is dependence(?), and at the end when he said, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73), my illusion is now over. That is (indistinct). Unity does not mean one's self loses individuality. That is cannot, that cannot be. Kṛṣṇa says that "both you and me and all these soldiers and Kings they existed before, now we are existing and we shall exist in future(?). So, that individuality is always kept. So unity means agreeing with the order of Kṛṣṇa, and disunity means not agreeing with the order. Otherwise your existence(?), mine and Kṛṣṇa's existence, always will be.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, kuhakam means illusion, magic. Something magician showing. So much money. Just like your this, one bābā, what is...? Satya...? He creates some gold.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Satya Sai.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) A magician in Gujarat, some Muslim magician. He would ask, not ask for a (indistinct)

Guest (3): He would not...? He would not...?

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Indian (3): Mama Chel.

Dr. Patel: Mama Chel. There was one man called Mama Chel. And when the ticket taker comes and asks for a ticket he would say, "All right, take this," and there would be a heap of tickets, railway tickets.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So a magician can do...

Dr. Patel: A magician he was. He would stop that train. Stand behind and stop the train. Stop. He must, people must have got some siddhis by...

Prabhupāda: Ah, the yogic siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā-laghimā...

Dr. Patel: No, but that, this aṇimā-laghimā, you get, the sāttvika fellows. But these, these people who are...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Anyone can get. It is a practice mechanical.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is the difference between Vaiṣṇava school and Māyāvādī school. Advaita-vāda and dvaita-vāda. They become very strong, at the same time, remain servant.

Dr. Patel: These śuddhādvaita-vādīs, their upper garment and lower garment the same as... (break) ...you call Māyāvādīs, they say that this is all humbug and nothing and nonexistence. They... (break) ...both are one and both are right and both are existent and both are... There is no illusion, as you say. The same thing.

Prabhupāda: Simultaneously one and different.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (2): Then there is no remainder, my family. When I surrender...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually, it is not... You are thinking... It is an illusion. You are illusioned that you are maintaining them. That is an illusion.

Guest (1): And illusion is māyā.

Prabhupāda: You are not maintaining. You are not maintaining. Just like I am, I am...

Dr. Patel: That is you find out.

Prabhupāda: No, that...

Guest (1): Then what you'll surrender?

Prabhupāda: You are individual soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

Guest (2): When I say, "I surrender you," what "I" means.

Prabhupāda: You are individual soul.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...these... Belong to Kṛṣṇa. This hand belongs to Kṛṣṇa. But now, we are under the..., "This is my hand. This is my eye. This is my body." This is illusion.

Dr. Patel: Now this "my" should belong to Kṛṣṇa. Then everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Everything belongs...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Dr. Patel: Ego must belong to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, with my hands, with my legs, with my eyes, I cannot do anything except serving Kṛṣṇa. How we can do? If the eyes belong to Kṛṣṇa, then how the eyes can be used for other purpose? This is real knowledge. That is explained in the Nārada Pañcarātra: sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is nirmala. Nirmala eyes. Brahma-bhūta. That is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20).

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is illusion. That is called moha, moha. One is suffering. Everyone is suffering. Suppose a big man, a minister, or the prime minister, or the chief minister, he's also suffering. But he's thinking, "Now I am prime minister." That is illusion. Nobody, nobody is here peaceful. Everyone is suffering. Because threefold miseries. That is the conditional life. And after all, Kṛṣṇa says that "If you are thinking that you are very happy, that you must know at least these things: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9)." How you can get out of it? You'll die. Nobody wants to die.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Para. But prakṛti. But it is prakṛti. It is not puruṣa. Therefore this prakṛti is trying to become puruṣa here. That is illusion.

Dr. Patel: Or, or people calling prakṛti as puruṣa is Māyāvāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no. Prakṛti, jīva, yayedaṁ dhāryate ja... They are working... They are trying to enjoy. But... They are trying to be enjoyer. But that is not possible. Prakṛti is enjoyed. Just like strī-puruṣa. Puruṣa is enjoyer, and strī is enjoyed. Similarly, prakṛti is used for the satisfaction of the puruṣa. So if the jīva is prakṛti, then the puruṣa, puruṣa is the Supreme Person. Therefore his business is to satisfy the Supreme Purusa. This is bhakti-yoga.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, you can see. Just like with cataract eyes you cannot see. But if the cataract is removed, you can see. So similarly, to see Kṛṣṇa you have to develop attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ, yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. So you have to be free from the cataract. Then you'll see.

Dr. Patel: Cataract is the cataract of māyā. False illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means...

Dr. Patel: Am I right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you have to purify your eyes by bhakti-yoga operation. And then you'll see. With stick. With stick.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kālātītaḥ because He, He's all spirit. Therefore He knows everything.

Dr. Patel: Kāla is an illusion.

Prabhupāda: No, kāla is also Kṛṣṇa, another form of Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kālo 'smi. In the Eleventh chapter He has said.

Mr. Sar: Icchā-dveṣa-samutthena dvandva-mohena bhārata (BG 7.27).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Dvandva-mohena.

Dr. Patel: Because they are illusioned by the dvandvas.

Prabhupāda: Dvandas.

Dr. Patel: If they understand that there is unity and nothing else but Kṛṣṇa, then they are released from the māyā's condition.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He's omniscient, everything. But you want. Therefore He has given you facility, "All right, you enjoy. And become entangled. That's all." Therefore at last He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Therefore He says that "This is rascaldom. You are trying this, this, that, that. No! Don't try that. Come on. Surrender unto Me." This is the last instruction.

Dr. Patel: Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61), bhrāmayan... (break) ...but you are illusioned because of the māyā... (break)

Prabhupāda: One man is in the prison house. So he supports, "Why government has created the prison house?" There must be somebody.

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, read it.

Girirāja:

yat tvayoktaṁ vacas tena

moho 'yaṁ vigato mama

(BG 11.1)

"Arjuna said: I have heard Your instruction on confidential spiritual matters, which You have so kindly delivered unto me, and my illusion is now dispelled."

Prabhupāda: There must be the word meaning. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta. That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man. He has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: There is a big research going on in the parapsychology, here in India and America.

Prabhupāda: No, it is by the grace of God one can remember about his past life. (break) ...practical experience. In our family, my mother's eldest sister, her son of a previous birth came to see her. Old man, very old man. (break) This is called illusion.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: We are speaking from the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. What Śaṅkarācārya says, what Rāmānujācārya says, that we shall consider there. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad-gītā that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So dehinaḥ means the possessor of the body, the owner of the body. That is the soul. So that you cannot deny, either you follow Śaṅkarācārya or Rāmānujācārya. There is soul within the body. This is Bhagavad-gītā says. Dehino 'smin, asmin dehe. Just like I was a child, I remember; you remember also. So that body is now gone. But I have got a different body, you have got a different body. But I am existing. So I am dehinaḥ, dehī, and my body is deha. So deha-dehī, there must be distinction. The body is not the owner. I am the owner. Just like I am sitting within this room, I am not this room; similarly, I am sitting within this body, you are sitting within your body. So you are not body. This is call illusion.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is material... Tathā gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta. Apta: friends. I must show: "Just see how I have got big house, nice wife, good bank balance. Come and see. And just glorify me, 'Oh, you are very successful. Although you are going to be dog next life.' " This is going on. Atho gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vitta janasya moho 'yam. This is illusion. This is illusion. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti: (SB 5.5.8) "Now I am such and such big man, minister." That's all. And he's... The minister is going to be dog next life. You see? That he does not know. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmā... (BG 3.27).

Dr. Patel: I don't think they should be dog, become dog. They should become hogs.

Prabhupāda: Yes, dog or hog, but the same. There is no much difference. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). These animals have been especially mentioned. Śva means dog, and viḍ-varāha means hog.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What is that dominate? One kick will finish everything. That is illusion. They are thinking, "We are going to dominate," but they are dominated always. Therefore, because they have no intelligence, they cannot understand. One earthquake can finish all this. All go down immediately. So what is that dominate? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ kar... (BG 3.27). The prakṛti, nature, is giving chance just like father and mother give chance that the children pile up stone and sand. "Let them play." Similarly prakṛti, mother prakṛti, nature, giving all this, "Let this rascal play like that. What can be done?" He does not know that "After this piling of stones and bricks, I will have to leave this place. And I do not know where I am going." So less intelligence. And they do not know what he is. He is thinking, "I am this body," but this body will be finished. That's all. "I was zero. I assumed some body. Now again I shall become zero." That's all. Śūnyavādī. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. It is covered? (break) ...viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā, some utopian hope of becoming happy. This is called durāśayā.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Go to guru. Guru. Yes. (indistinct) Who is guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: who has heard from the Vedas perfect knowledge and who is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is guru. Everything is there. Immediate answer is tad-vijñānārtham. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is for inquiring where shall I go for knowledge? Athāto brahma-jiñāsā.

tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet

samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

(MU 1.2.12)

Everything is there. When they were building this costly skyscraper, they forgot that this skyscraper will be the same fate as there were big, big Roman buildings two thousand years ago. Because I will have to leave. Although the building is very solid, it will not be destroyed within five thousand years, but you are not going to live here for five thousand years. You can live for fifty years sir. Then go away. Then it will be relic. That's all. So why don't you make guarantee, that "I have made this strong building to stand for five thousand... Let me live also." Where is your that knowledge? This is illusion. They know it, that "I shall not be able to live in this house. I shall not get the duration of life as big as this building will have. Then why am I wasting my energy in this way? I shall be zero after fifty years." What is this knowledge? You are not also going to enjoy. Then he is pleased that "My sons and grandsons and..." Who is your grandson? Who is your son? That he does not know. Nobody's son, nobody's grandson. Everyone is coming just like we have come, and they will go away. So similarly, they are coming and going. This is... No knowledge.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He is such a foolish that he knows that he will not be able to stay in this, but "Why I made this house so strong, durable? I could have made some temporary house, some four pillars, that's all. But why I am anxious? But I want that a building should be so strong it will endure for so many years." But what about you? What is your guarantee? That knowledge, they will not take. This is their illusion. We don't say that you have done wrong. Utilize it. Be comfortable, seated, and use your time for taking that knowledge.

Dhanañjaya: They are constructing these buildings in defiance of the existence of God.

Prabhupāda: Not defiance. Out of foolishness. They have got some energy for better purposes, but they are not utilizing it for better purposes,—for some things which is illusion. That's all. They have got intelligence. This construction of building requires good intelligence, but they're lacking this intelligence, that "I have constructed this house very nicely, but I will not be able to live in it."

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: In that agricultural report it said that if they were to eat all the grains that they give to the cows and animals, they could get twenty times more calories than by eating meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wrong civilization, rascal civilization. And this is due to this rascaldom, nationalism, "This is my land." And at any moment he will be kicked out. Still, he claims, "It is my land." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is the illusion. Nothing belongs to him; still he is fighting, "This is mine. This is mine." "I" and "mine." Identifying himself with this body, "I", and wrongly conceiving that "This is mine." This is the basic principle of wrong civilization. Both things are... Nothing belongs to him. Suppose I have come here in Switzerland. If I remain here for one month and I claim, "Oh, this is mine," what is this? So similarly, I come as guest. Everyone comes as guest in the womb of his mother and lives here for fifty years. He is claiming, "It is mine." When, when, when it became yours? The land was long, long time before your birth.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Better, that is everyone is trying, that is... But there is no cure. If you think that temporary cure is better, that's nice, but there is no cure.

Robert Gouiran: So do you mean that healing is an illusion? Because healing is a fact.

Prabhupāda: But if you cannot cure, then where is that healing? First of all answer this. If you cannot cure, then where is that healing?

Robert Gouiran: But healing is a fact of life. I have seen.

Prabhupāda: What is that fact?

Robert Gouiran: I have seen healings.

Prabhupāda: Where is that? You heal some disease, and he gets another disease. Then where is the healing?

Robert Gouiran: Temporary.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, no, if you can't explain means you do not know.

Priest: You don't think an illusion (indistinct) relationship.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not illusion. If you cannot explain, that means you do not know. If you know, you must explain. That is knowing, that is knowledge.

Priest: Yeah, but that knowledge is very (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot preach. As a priest you cannot preach because you do not know, it is not within your experience.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is called illusion, māyā. Actually, he cannot enjoy, but, forgetting Kṛṣṇa, the real enjoyer, he wants to enjoy. That is his... Just like a child imitates the mother for cooking. The other day, in Geneva, the fire ceremony was going on. The mother was offering oblations, and the child also immediately took some and he... You have seen that?

Yogeśvara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So he's not fit for that business, but he imitates. That is childish. Sometimes goes to the kitchen, wants to make foodstuff, preparation, and he is given some toys that "You just play with it." So every living entity is part and parcel of God. So God is enjoyer, God is controller. So he wants to imitate God. That is called māyā.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst men, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me." (French)

Prabhupāda: So narādhama, means lowest of the mankind. In the human form of life one could understand that as there is a pilot in the aeroplane, there is a pilot on this big cosmic manifestation.

Yogeśvara: Yes, but his last reaction to that was that he always finds Indian analogies amusing.

Prabhupāda: But he has no other knowledge. Without analogy he cannot understand. Then it will be dogmatic. So if you go this way you are dogmatic, and if you this way, analogy. Then what way he will take? (French)

Prabhupāda: But you are a fool. In your own way means foolish way. You do not know.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that simply by surrendering oneself unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality Kṛṣṇa, one can surmount the stringent laws of material nature. At this point a question rises. How is it that educated philosophers, scientists, businessmen, administrators and all the leaders of ordinary men do not surrender unto the lotus... (break) ...Manu, Vyāsa, Devala, Asita, Janaka, Prahlāda, Bali, and later on, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Śrī Caitanya and many others who are faithful philosophers, politicians, educators, and scientists etc. surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, the all-powerful authority. Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God. They simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material..."

Prabhupāda: Everyone comes, they say, "Why people are suffering?" They are concerned with the people suffering. Actually not. That is a plea only, as if he has taken the task of minimizing the suffering of humanity. He poses himself as very philanthropist. Actually, he cannot do anything.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Mādhavānanda: He is in illusion.

Prabhupāda: Illusion. You are seeing an illusion? Some tiger is coming. You are crying, "Save me, save me." It is illusion. This body is also illusion. But you are affected. That means you are experiencing. How you can say that you are not perceiving? And when in dream you see your beloved or woman and man, there is no, nothing such thing, but still, there is discharge. Why? Why you are not perceiving? How you can say that you are not perceiving. It is perceiving. What is the answer? You are perceiving every night...

Satsvarūpa: Yes, in dreams.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: ...that you leave this body, you accept another body and do something else which you see. If that is illusion, then this is also illusion. Because in daytime you forget that night activities, and at night you forget the day activities. So this is also illusion. So therefore you are in illusion. That's a fact, day and night, day and night. That is called māyā. This is also māyā. But they have accepted this as fact. The gross illusion they have taken as fact. This is also illusion. You are thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "German." What is that? By one kick of nature you are out, the cat and dog. This is also illusion. What is not illusion?

Haṁsadūta: So there are also living beings, they accept the subtle material as illusion just as we are accepting this gross.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. Therefore the problem is where is my real life? That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one understands, the rascal, that "This is also illusion. This is also illusion. Then where is my actual life?" that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That is all... They may think like that, but this is practical thing. Try to understand that in daytime you are illusioned by this gross body, and at night you are illusioned by the subtle body. So both of them are illusion. Therefore if you are intelligent, your inquiry should be "What is my real life?" That is intelligence, "What I am?" That is... Sanātana Gosvāmī placed before... "What I am?" Ke āmi. That "I am simply hovering in illusion, gross and subtle. Then what is my real position? What I am?" That is real philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called Brahman. When I am Brahman", so that is the beginning: "What I am? What is my position?" That illusion is going on. So the material life means he is in illusion for millions and millions of years. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgya... So out of many such millions and millions living entities, one becomes conscious, that "What is my real life?" That is awakening. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya (CC Madhya 19.151). Then he begins his devotional life: "My real life is this."

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that understanding? His understanding is that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. So let me surrender to Kṛṣṇa as He wants and serve Him." This is life. As soon as he is on this platform, then he is out of illusion. And if he is perfect, then just after giving up this body he goes to Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. If he does not fall from this transcendental service of Kṛṣṇa, then immediately after death he is transferred. Just like we are transferred from this gross body to subtle body, similarly, after death a devotee is transferred immediately to the Kṛṣṇa, where Kṛṣṇa is there, either within this material world or... They are first of all given chance to go to Kṛṣṇa. In any brahmāṇḍa there is Kṛṣṇa. Nitya-līlā is going on. So he is born there. Then actually plays with Kṛṣṇa, dance with Kṛṣṇa, talks with Kṛṣṇa. Apprenticeship. This is also apprenticeship here. So is there any difficulty of perception?

Satsvarūpa: No.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So how do you say there is no perception? So this transmigration of soul takes place that... Just like in daytime we are in this body, nighttime we leave this body and work with the subtle body, so transmigration soul takes place—with that subtle body he enters the womb of suitable mother, and this body is left. And there he grows again this gross body and then comes out. Is it difficult to understand? That is not illusion. That's fact. And death means that you left this gross body and the period you do not come out in another gross body, that period is called death. That period is called death.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So just see how Kṛṣṇa's management, nature's management, there is day and night, day and night, day and night. Otherwise it is horrible. If it is all simply day, it is horrible also. And if it is simply night, that is also horrible. So He is so kind He has given day and night, day and night. So do not be misled by this illusion as others are being. Stick to Kṛṣṇa to save. That is the only... Is Stockholm also like that?

Mādhavānanda: Yes. Who is from Stockholm? This is what I heard.

Prabhupāda: Stockholm also like that?

Haṁsadūta: In the winter months there is only a few hours, a few hours' sunlight. Then it goes down.

Prabhupāda: Three hours.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Time is there, but because I have got this temporary body, I am thinking past, present, future. The temporary body will vanish. I shall get another temporary body. Then again my begins past and present. So therefore this is called illusion. Time is eternal. It has no beginning, no end, but we transmigrate from one body to another. We are calculating, miscalculating, past, present, future.

Professor Durckheim: Yes, time has no beginning and no end. But time in this second sense has nothing to do with beginning and end.

Prabhupāda: It has no end, beginning, no end. The beginning and end is of this body. And in relationship with this body, we are calculating past, present, future.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the spiritual life there is no sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex intercourse. There is no sex life. Although there is man and woman, there is no sex intercourse. By chanting the glories of God there in the spiritual world, they get so much great pleasure that is far beyond this pleasure of sex life. If you have something best then you forget low grade pleasure. So this sex pleasure is lower grade pleasure. It is not pleasure, it is illusion, but in material world this is the greatest pleasure. Therefore everyone they are coming back to this sex pleasure, everyone. Even so-called religionists and swamis, they are coming down to the sex pleasure. Because in this material world that is the only highest pleasure. So, so long one will be attracted by the sex pleasure it is still in the material world. And when one will be on the platform to spite (spit) on sex pleasure, then his spiritual life begins.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by... That is also statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja, this boy devotee. He says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: (SB 7.5.31) "These foolish people, they do not know, what is their actual self-interest." So he says, "They do not know the actual self-interest is approaching God. That is real self-interest. But they do not know it." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). "They have made their plan wrongly to become happy in this material world." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha-māninaḥ means external: "They have taken the external energy, the material world, as very important. And the leaders also, the so-called leaders... They are being led. The leaders, they are blind, and they are leading some other blind men without knowing that they cannot be happy in that way because he is under strict, stringent laws of nature, material nature." That Bhagavad-gītā therefore recommends,

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

This is illusion, that they are under the control of the material nature... Just like the so-called foolish scientists. They don't care for God. They think by so-called scientific advancement they will progress..., all the problems will be solved. That is not possible. One of my students, he is double M.A. in chemistry and Ph.D. I asked him to discuss these things. He has written a small, a little book. Find out this book. Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Here, yes, this book. So he has very scientifically discussed. The scientists, so-called scientists, they are going to be as all in all.

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is sense. Otherwise nonsense, that's all. It is up to us to take up the sense or nonsense. The direction is there. What Arjuna said?

Satsvarūpa:

arjuna uvāca

naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā

tvat-prasādān mayācyuta

sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ

kariṣye vacanaṁ tava

(BG 18.73)

"Arjuna said, My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy, and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."

Prabhupāda: This is sense.

Bhūrijana: Prabhupāda, I think my illusion is not yet dispelled.

Prabhupāda: Then unfortunate.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This industry is horrible work. Simply by tilling your ground you get food grains, and keep some cows, you get milk—your economic problem is solved. Why such big, big industries? Ugra-karma. Then? Go on.

Cāru:

kāmam āśritya duṣpūraṁ

dambha-māna-madānvitāḥ

mohād gṛhītvāsad-grāhān

pravartante 'śuci-vratāḥ

(BG 16.10)

"The demoniac, taking shelter of insatiable lust, pride and false prestige, and being thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent."

Prabhupāda: The big two wars of the world happened only on account of this industry. Do you know that? The cause is the big, big industry. Germany industrial, they produce goods. They must have market. But when they go to sell, there is no market. Britishers will not allow to sell them. The Britisher will take, purchase from them, and stamp it "Made in England" and sell it. And this is the cause of two big war. Therefore German declare twice war. Disaster. Therefore it is said, jagata ahitāya.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Cāru: Moha-jāla-samāvṛtāḥ, prasaktāḥ kāma-bhogeṣu patanti narake 'śucau: (BG 16.16) "Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, one becomes too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and falls down into hell."

Prabhupāda: Then?

Cāru:

ātma-sambhāvitāḥ stabdhā

dhana-māna-madānvitāḥ

yajante nāma-yajñais te

dambhenāvidhi-pūrvakam

(BG 16.17)

"Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes perform sacrifices in name only without following any rules or regulations."

ahaṅkāraṁ balaṁ darpaṁ

kāmaṁ krodhaṁ ca saṁśritāḥ

mām ātma-para-deheṣu

pradviṣanto 'bhyasūyakāḥ

(BG 16.18)

"Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body..."

Prabhupāda: Next stage. "What is God? I am God."

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Kṛṣṇa-kānti: We must present a better civilization.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not better or best. The civilization. Everything is all false, cheating. Everything, everything is cheating. Without this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all other consciousness, they're simply cheating. That is called māyā, illusion. If you remain in any other consciousness except Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means you are in illusion. You are misguided. That is explained in the second verse of the First Canto. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstava vastu vedyam atra: (SB 1.1.2) All kinds of cheating religious system is kicked out." That is the second verse. Projjhita, completely cleansed of all cheating type of religion. This, this has been translated into Bengali by these words,

pṛthivīte yāha kichu dharma nāme cale

bhāgavata kāhe taha paripūrṇa chale

Whatever is going on throughout the whole world in the name of religion, Bhāgavata, according to Bhāgavata, they're all cheating. They're all cheating. Bhāgavata kāhe taha paripūrṇa chale. Chale means cheating.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if we study analytically, we can understand that how much we are in illusion. This most abominable thing, we are taking it is the center of happiness. (break) Therefore, Vaiṣṇava (indistinct). Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, they are enjoying a certain type of most abominable happiness. Tato vimukha-cetasa indriyārtha. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "I am simply thinking of these rascals. For me, I have no problem. All problems solved."

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes... Means this is false thing. It appears as a big city. Similarly, this is also. This material world is like that. It is a false cloud only, but we have taken it as fact. Just see, it appears just like big New York City. If you go to the forest, you will find some illusion, that just after that tree there is a big house. Have you experienced that?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is called Gandharvapur. So if anyone wants to enter that big city, then what is his position?

Devotee (2): Illusion.

Prabhupāda: The same thing: the conditioned soul enters the big city of material world, and he struggles.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: I am not wanting. I am simply distributing the transcendental knowledge.

Professor: Will not transcendence be an illusion too?

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is proof. It is not emotion. What you say, you have no proof, but what I say I have got proof. What you say, you become your own authority. But what I say, I have got greater authority. Just like two lawyers speaking before the court—the lawyer who gives quotation from the authority, he gains the case.

Professor: Do you have any evidence?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they are illusioned.

Prabhupāda: Innocent?

Rūpānuga: Illusioned, illusioned.

Prabhupāda: Oh, illusioned, yes.

Rūpānuga: Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. They are so-called educated, doctors, but actually they have no knowledge. Simply they are bluffing, cheating. Where is the question of creation? So many millions and trillions of living entities are there, and they are making conference, "How to create from chemicals?" Just see this childish proposal. And wasting time and misleading person, and wasting hard-earned money of the state. And big, big foundation supplying them money. And if you ask, "Give us some money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness," "No, no, we are not interested in religion. We are interested in science, and this is the science." All fools and rascal, mūḍhā. That is our test.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Our mission is to spread the words of Kṛṣṇa. We don't manufacture anything. Why should we manufacture? Everything is there perfectly. What Kṛṣṇa says, it is perfect. If I manufacture something, that is imperfect because I am imperfect. So how can I speak perfectly, or how can I give perfect knowledge? It is not possible because I am defective, I commit mistake, I am sometimes illusioned. Why sometimes? Practically always. Everyone is thinking that he is this body—he is Indian, he is American, he is Hindu, he is Muslim. That is illusion. He is not this body. Similarly, our senses are imperfect, and so long we are in the imperfect condition, if we teach, that means we cheat. I have no perfect knowledge, and still, I am trying to teach. That is cheating. Nobody should try to preach with imperfect knowledge. That is cheating. That is stated in the śāstra: bhrama, pramāda, vipralipsā and kāraṇa-patāvā. We are qualified with these imperfections, and therefore we cannot manufacture. Somebody says "in my opinion." So what is the value of your opinion? You are imperfect. If the child says "in my opinion," what is the value? Therefore we don't say, "in my opinion," "our opinion." We say "Kṛṣṇa says this," that's all.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Indian man (5): ...our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is there any different methods?

Prabhupāda: No, methods I have all explained. Kṛṣṇa bhakta means do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-śilānam (CC Madhya 19.167). Just like Arjuna did. He did not like to fight with his cousin-brothers, but after hearing instruction of Kṛṣṇa, he said, "Yes," naṣṭo mohaḥ, "my illusion is now over." Smṛtir labdhā: "I have got my consciousness." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: (BG 18.73) "I shall act as You are saying, that's all." This is Kṛṣṇa bhakta. We may have different decisions. That is natural. But when you agree to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have to agree. Kṛṣṇa does not force; He says, "Do this like this," and if we agree, then we are Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Young man: I find it very difficult to know the difference between truth and illusion.

Prabhupāda: God is truth; what is forgetfulness of God, that is illusion. God is truth. Just like the sun is present all the time, twenty-four hours. But we say now there is no sun, at night. But that's not the fact. The fact is the sun is there; I cannot see. That is illusion. Not that God is not there. God is there. As exactly, same example, the sun is there at night, but I cannot see under certain condition. Therefore it is illusion. Our senses are imperfect; therefore sometimes we cannot understand or see God. If our senses are purified, then we can see God every moment. So, what is your idea of God?

Young man: I, I... Something that I see sometimes in everything, the sameness in everything.

Prabhupāda: No clear concept.

Young man: I have no clear...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The clear conception of God is that originally He is person. Just like the same example, the sun. We can see every day the sun. (aside:) Can you give me that 7-Up? The sun is there always, but at night we cannot see. At night we cannot see. That does not mean the sun is not there.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, attachment to the body is not bad. Just like you have got a nice car. So you have got attachment for it. But you must know that you are not the car. That everyone can... A child can understand. But because I have got attachment for something, it does not mean I am that thing. I have got attachment for so many things. That is natural. Anything I possess, I have got attachment. But that does not mean I am that thing. But here the mistake is that because we have got attachment for the body, I am identifying myself as the body. That is ignorance, illusion.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Servant. God is supreme, we are all subordinate. God is maintaining us just like father maintains. So it is the duty of the son to be obedient to the father, to act according to his order. Then everything is perfect. At the present moment on account of this bodily concept of life every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve. But at the present moment we are serving māyā, illusion, and we have to be trained up to serve the Supreme Being. Then our life is perfect. (break) ...at the present moment, although there are many religious system, they have no clear conception of God, although religion means to approach God. There is no religion throughout the whole world which is not connected with the word God. So religion means to understand God. But if we have no clear conception of God, then the religion is defective. Do you admit it or not? Religion means to understand God or God's laws. That is religion.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Then they are controlled by the laws of material nature, and they want to be happy independently. This is rascaldom. If I am controlling you and you want to become happy independently, how it is possible? You must get out of the control first of all. Your eyes should be open. Then you can do something independently. But you are under my control fully, and I have wrapped up your eyes with very thick layer of cloth, and then how you can become independent, work. That they do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This māyā, this energy, is very, very strong. You cannot get out of it. Then what is the way? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then immediately he gets out of the control of māyā. That is the sign. Otherwise, if I remain a blind man, how can I lead others? Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, janma sārthaka kari kāra para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). You are very busy doing good to others, but first of all make your life perfect. And otherwise, you rascal, fool, blind, what you will do? So where is the training? Where the politicians are going to take training how to become free from the wrapping, illusion? So they are in illusion, in darkness. What they can do? Futile attempt. Therefore all plans are failure.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, you say that Kṛṣṇa is pūrṇam, the complete whole. So in the material world, if something is very great, even though we may not like it, like people may not like the United States, but still, they have to admit that it is a very great country in comparison to theirs. So in the material world, things which are great, at least we have to admit that to some extent they are great. But Kṛṣṇa is everything. So how is it that people are saying that He's so tiny that He may even be an ordinary man? How can they be so illusioned to think like that? Kṛṣṇa is everything. How can they ignore Him?

Prabhupāda: Illusioned because you do not know what Kṛṣṇa says. That is your fault. Kṛṣṇa says, "You do this," but you do not do that. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Who is doing that? Just take a census, who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hardly you will find one in million. So who is carrying out the order of Kṛṣṇa? Nobody is doing.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: That is the illusion.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Amogha: She says that is the illusion of independence.

Prabhupāda:? Yes, so if you simply in illusion you live, then where is your education? If you remain in darkness, then where is your education? Illusion means darkness. So if you are in darkness, now what is your education? And where is your philosophy?

Carol: The only way to remove this darkness is through love. Is this what you are saying?

Prabhupāda: Love is far away. First of all you be educated.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Why they will think? It is a fact. There is English proverb, "There is many dangers between the cups and the lips." You are going to drink tea. The distance is: here is cup and here is lip. There may be many dangers. So suppose in drinking tea there is some choking within the throat, and coughing, you may die immediately. You are so much under the control of nature. Little mistake will cause your death, little mistake. And conditioned life means we commit mistake, we are illusioned, we cheat, and our knowledge is imperfect. This is conditioned life.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, our ideas are standard. We are not manufacturing any idea. Just like whatever we speak, immediately we give evidence from the śāstra. That is our standard. We accept standard idea, and the standard idea means the ideas given by God. That is standard. There is no mistake. There is no cheating, There is no illusion. Any idea we form, that is prone to these four defects. One defect is that we are prone to commit mistake. We are prone to be illusioned. And our senses are imperfect. So being subjected to mistaken idea, illusioned idea, our senses being imperfect, if we want to give some law, that is cheating.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpa: Actually, this world was created by God's līlā, but actually, it is all just illusion.

Prabhupāda: Not līlā. There is meaning. You can say it is līlā. Where now? That's not... It is very rough.

Gurukṛpa: There's a beach after this.

Bali-mardana: The whole theory of the scientists about the evolution of man—it rests on about four bones. The whole theory is based on a few bones they have found, about four different bones from the... One tooth and a jawbone and one more bone that they say are so many millions of years old. And this is the whole basis for their theories.

Prabhupāda: So there are so many bones. Why don't you create living entity from the bones?

Śrutakīrti: This side is very dirty. (break)

Prabhupāda: Light is light so long the sun is not there. Similarly, all these scientists are scientists so long God is not there. And as soon as God is there... Just like our men. They do not care for all this shining, shining light of scientists. The glowworm, they are light so long it is darkness. When it is sunshine, there is no use of these glowworms. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is the Vedic instruction. If you understand God, then you understand everything. Then you will not be allured by the so-called rascal scientist. Accident and this, that, bone. We are not interested. This side is better than the other side. When I was coming to America by ship, at night I was seeing, about hundred miles away there is one ship, a little light. There is a difference, so many miles. Vast ocean. Somebody live there always? No. Somebody is there.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because by independence you can become foolish. Otherwise, there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do whatever you like. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Find out this verse in the Eighteenth Chapter. That independence is there. After instructing the whole Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa gave him the independence, "Now whatever you like, you can do." Kṛṣṇa never forced him to accept the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. He gave him the independence, "Now whatever you like, you can do." And he agreed. "Yes. Now my illusion is over, I shall act as You say." The same independence.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our material contaminated state when we act in a foolishly or mad, then we call that tamas, or our ignorance, but in the spiritual sky when the living entity is in his pure state of consciousness, what acts..., Does something act upon him to make him illusioned at that point also?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Jaya-Vijaya. They committed offense. They did not allow the four Kumāras to enter. That was their fault. And the Kumāras became very sorry. Then they cursed him that "You are not fit to remain in this place." So we sometimes commit mistake. That is also misuse of independence. Or we are prone to fall down because we are small. Just like small fragment of fire. Although it is fire, it is prone to be extinguished. The big fire does not extinguish. So Kṛṣṇa is the big fire, and we are part and parcel, sparks, very small. So within the fire there are sparks, "Fut, Fut!" There are so many. But if the sparks fall down, then it is extinguished. It is like that. The fall down means material world, there are three different grades: the tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and sattva-guṇa. If the... Just like the spark falls down. If it falls down on dry grass, the grass becomes ablazed. So the fiery quality is still maintained, although it is fall down.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: There'll be no water for their machines.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are thinking that "This is improvement." What is this nonsense improvement? You are dependent fully on other elements. What improvement will do? And Kṛṣṇa says, "This is a place for misery." How you will improve? This is folly, this is illusion. Kṛṣṇa says, "This place is for suffering," and you are making improvement. "Yes, we are advancing. In future we shall live. Nobody will die." Therefore they are called rascals. Persons who are trying to do something which is impossible, they are fools. Mūḍha. They do not see, still, they hope, "Yes, we are trying. We shall do in future." This is going on. This is the example by the ass. The ass... Driver is sitting on the back of the ass and showing one bunch of grass, and the ass is thinking, "I will get it." (laughter) And he is going on, and he is sitting safely, that "The ass will go on." So our improvement is like that. "Just little forward, then I shall get the grass." He will never get the grass. That he has no brain, that "I am improving; the grass also improving, going on." That they do not see. Now we invented so many airship. It was thought, "Oh, now it will be very nice. Within two hours we shall reach somewhere." Now there are so many dangers. Now there is problem, how to protect us from these accidents.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: (in car) ...saṁsāre māyāra janeiya, moha janeiya, jīva ke karaye gadha. This māyāra vaibhava, this material advancement is advancement of māyā. Big, big building, nice road, nice motor car, nice... Surely it is material advancement, admitted. But this advancement is advancement of the illusory energy. So what is the wrong there? Suppose... The wrong is there that this material world is temporary. We have come here temporarily, say twenty-five years, fifty years or at most, hundred years. So we are already illusioned and we become more illusioned. Then we forget our real business. Mūḍha, we remain mūḍha. Supposing if there is next birth, so who is very much anxious to know what is our next birth? Nobody is. Blindly going on. māyāra vaibhava. (break) ...very nice church, but understand what for this church is, what is God, what is God consciousness. Just cultivate this knowledge. "No, big church finished." Live nice building, nice happy life, but don't forget Kṛṣṇa. Then what is the use of this life? And if you forget Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be crime, and you will be facing with problems, "Why and now what to do?" So many problems will be there. So the problems cannot be solved simply by possessing big, big buildings.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: ...already very much attraction for this material world. That is called māyā. And when we are involved with these things, material prosperity, then we become more involved. On account of our material attachment, we are getting repetition of birth and death in different forms of life, and these attractions are making us more and more involved. māyāra vaibhava. People are becoming illusioned, "I am American. My country is so rich. I shall live here." But you cannot live. He is preparing for another body. So therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anitya soṁsāre, moha janamiya, jība ke karaye gadha. Anityad means we shall not be able to stay. Unnecessarily, we are becoming involved in this material world. Now, those who built up this nation, where they have gone, nobody can say. Because after this body is fallen, where he is being carried, nobody knows. He is carried by his work, fruitive activities. Therefore they do not believe next life. Finished. (break) ...gentleman, he was very well known, brother of Rabindranath Tagore. Rabindranath Tagore was poet, and he was artist, Abanindranath Tagore. In our childhood, in a meeting, he said that "Why should we bother about the next life? Let us enjoy this life." I remember that. Most people think like that. Carvāka Muni advised like that. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. "Just enjoy life." "I have no money to enjoy." "Beg, borrow or steal. Bring money. Purchase ghee." "I will have to pay." "Ah! Why do you think like that?" "Then next life I will suffer." "Don't think like that. Your body will be finished.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. That is also speculation. (laughter) "Because I have failed, therefore there is no knowledge." This is also imperfect because how I can conclude like that? I am imperfect. I cannot decide this way or that way. So that is also. Vedic knowledge says that a conditioned soul has got four defects: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. Any conditioned soul. Even Brahma, he is receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). Ādi-kavi means Brahma. He is the most perfect person within this universe, Lord Brahma. So he is also receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Any conditioned soul, beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, they are defective in four ways: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. They know that "I am imperfect." Just this Darwin. He knew that he is imperfect, and he cheated so many persons—by false theory, which he cannot explain. He simply gives, "Perhaps millions of years' gap...," this, that. That is not knowledge. So the imperfect person is prone to become a cheater. So we should not take knowledge from the cheaters. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We should take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's one of the chapters in our book that Mādhava is working, that inductive knowledge, there is nothing like inductive knowledge. It's all māyā; it's illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is illusion. (break) ...western countries it is full of inductive knowledge. That's all. (break) Dr. Radhakrishnan used to say, on sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), "It is too much." (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He died just a few months ago.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he died, and brain fag. All his knowledge, last five, six years—he could not recognize his own men.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Brahmānanda:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me."

Prabhupāda: As soon as one denies Kṛṣṇa is not God, then he comes within those categories: miscreant, rascal, lowest of the mankind, his knowledge is taken away by māyā, and he's a demon.

Prof. Hopkins: (laughs) That's a strong statement.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. If he does not know, then he must be amongst these groups.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Desire means he wants to enjoy, but he is not enjoyer. When he comes to enjoy, he becomes servant. That is illusion.

Dharmādhyakṣa: So when the jīva soul descends into the material world, it is like a hallucination?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We get experience daily. In the daytime we have forgotten the night dream, and night dream we forget in this daytime existence. So which is correct? Therefore it is hallucination.

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect. That is the defect. Either the master is defective or the servant is defective or the system is defective. That is material world. Doṣa-catuḥsthānī, four faults: mistake, illusion, cheating, and imperfectness. (break) ...the struggle for existence—one mistake after one mistake, one illusion after one, one imperfectness after another. Like that, it is going on.

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect. That is the defect. Either the master is defective or the servant is defective or the system is defective. That is material world. Doṣa-catuḥsthānī, four faults: mistake, illusion, cheating, and imperfectness. (break) ...the struggle for existence—one mistake after one mistake, one illusion after one, one imperfectness after another. Like that, it is going on.

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Self-suff... There is no self-sufficiency. Self-insufficiency. Always remember that. Unless you become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no self-sufficiency. All self-insufficiency. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) So you give me a description, what he is doing. (break) ...thinking, "I am independent," but he is kicked by his mind every moment. This is his independence—"Go there. Come here. Do this. Do that." The mind is dictating, and he is thinking, "I am independent." This is the position of conditioned soul. Therefore he is called conditioned. He is conditioned by the mind, and he is thinking "independent." Mūḍha. Therefore mūḍha. Tri-guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ mohitaḥ. He is illusioned by the three modes of material nature, and he does not know Kṛṣṇa, and he is thinking "independent."

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That means you forget. You forget everything. Then how you will be liberated? Whatever little consciousness was there, that is finished. Then how you become liberated? Whatever you had, that is also finished. Eh? Then how you become liberated?

Harikeśa: But what we are forgetting is just illusion anyway.

Prabhupāda: That is liberation. Then I kill you, you forget everything—liberation. (laughter) What is the meaning of liberation? They do not know even the meaning of liberation.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: I put myself in this condition of illusion so that I can enjoy being liberated.

Prabhupāda: And so you put yourself to be kicked by me and enjoy. Just test what is the enjoyment of being kicked.

Dhanañjaya: But without pain how can you experience pleasure?

Prabhupāda: You get this experience, how it is pleasure? I kick and you enjoy?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: The idea is that after experiencing the suffering of this material world then liberation will be very...

Prabhupāda: Why there is suffering, material? You are supreme; why it is suffering for you?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: Well, so that when I...

Prabhupāda: So, there is no "so that." Why you are suffering?

Brahmānanda: It's suffering only for those...

Prabhupāda: If it is your līlā, then you are suffering. What is this nonsense of "my līlā." Suffering?

Brahmānanda: The suffering is only for those who haven't..., who don't understand that they are supreme.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ah. When he comes to this awareness, that "I have simply suffered and I wanted to maintain myself by jugglery of words," then he comes to the real knowledge.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: So the Māyāvādīs' philosophy is actually the supreme illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden. Māyāvādī-bhāṣya sunile haya sarva nasa (CC Madhya 6.169). One is finished if he follows the Māyāvāda philosophy. He is doomed. He will never be able to accept the real philosophy. He will be absorbed in that false philosophy. This is Māyāvādī's position. Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. They are aparādhī, offender. Therefore they shall remain perpetually in ignorance and think himself, "I am God." This is Māyāvādī's position. Vivekānanda preached openly that "Why you are thinking that you are sinful? You are God." He preached like that.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Comfort, where is your comfort? Why you have so many medical men if you are comfortable? Why there are so many drugs, medicine, if you are comfortable? This is māyā. He is not in comfort; still, he will say that "I am in comfort." This is called māyā, illusion.

Brahmānanda: So these drugs, even though one may be feeling pain, he can take the drugs and he won't feel pain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He will take injection. It is comfort. Daily he will take injection, and it is comfort. (laughter) Just see the fools and rascals. Mūḍha. (break) ...met so many medical men, doctors and quack. "Die comfortably." What is the use of this medical man, medicine? What is the use? If your comfort and death is comfortable, then why spend so much money? Die comfortably. Because you cannot check death, then why you are trying to check death? "Let me live some years more. Let me take this medicine." Why? Why this struggle? Die comfortably. Suffer disease comfortably.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Enjoy, but where is your enjoyment? Come to the practical point. Where is your enjoyment? You are simply suffering. That is their rascaldom. They are suffering; still, they say, "I am enjoying." This is called illusion, māyā. Enjoy. That we also say, that we are trying to take you to a certain place, kingdom of God or back..., where you will enjoy. Enjoy... Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That enjoy is our aim. But where is your enjoyment here? That is your rascaldom. There is no enjoyment; still, you say, "We shall enjoy."

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Satyānanda-cid-ātmani. Yogis, bhakti-yogis, they also want ānanda, but not this false ānanda, satyānanda-cid-ātmāni, iti... Therefore they call Rāma. Rāma means ramaṇa, enjoyment. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhiyate (CC Madhya 9.29). They do not know what is satyānanda. They do not understand, as soon as we accept this material body, it is misery, simply misery. The body is constructed within the womb of the mother in a miserable condition. These rascals, they do not understand. In a packed-up way, head down, leg up. And it is enjoyment. The body is created in this troublesome, from miserable condition; still, they say, "enjoyment." This is foolishness. This is called illusion.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: That is real education. We want that you learn from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, you learn from Vyāsadeva, you learn from Nārada. But why you are learning from Freud, from Darwin and such rascals? Education means you should learn from a person who is authorized, who is without mistake, without illusion, who does not cheat, just like we are learning from Kṛṣṇa. That is education. And if you learn from rascals and fools, then what is that education? Education means to learn from the learned person. But if you are learning from a rascal and fool, then what is your education? Education required, but we require what is actually education, which is not cheating.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Do you think everyone is making money?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So it's a big illusion? It's a big illusion?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone simply working hard like asses. That's all. This is their happiness. Just like the hog, he's working very hard to eat stool, and he is thinking happy. He is getting fatty. Do you think to work hard day and night and eat stool is happiness?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: But he is thinking; therefore he is getting fat. You generally find the pigs are fatty because they think, "Oh, I am very happy." Yes. One man gets fatty when he thinks that "I am very happy." You know that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is all right. Guru is representative of Kṛṣṇa, but why one should bother himself for pleasing Kṛṣṇa? Answer this.

Devotee (1): 'Cause our real position is to serve Kṛṣṇa, and because we've fallen in this illusion of the material energy, so we forgot our position.

Prabhupāda: We shall do it otherwise. Why shall I please Kṛṣṇa? We are making scientific progress. What is the use of bringing God?

Devotee (2): Because we shall never become perfect or see the answer.

Prabhupāda: That is begging the question.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Indian (1): That is mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā.

icchā-dveṣa-samutthena

dvandva-mohena bhārata

sarva-bhūtāni sammohaṁ

sarge yānti parantapa

(BG 7.27)

"All bhūtas come to illusion because of icchā, dveṣa and dvandva." And when you are relieved from icchā, dveṣa and dvandva, then you are mukta.

Prabhupāda: Work is going on at night? No.

Devotee (2): They are digging all night.

Dr. Patel: These two architects are wonderful people. They are wonderful. They, very early they're getting up. I said it will not be so soon as that.

Prabhupāda: Now we are going to have the temple within three months.

Dr. Patel: But then drying of the cement, drying needs...

Prabhupāda: Everything is there. Just you take and... In Bombay, Calcutta, if you pay for, you can get tiger's blood.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Devotee (3): (break) You were speaking about the blind person who is thinking that he can see. He is in illusion. How can we best convince him that he is not able to see?

Prabhupāda: You have to convince him that "Your eyes are imperfect." Then you can tell, "Just close your eyes. Can you see the eyelid? It closes, but you cannot see. Why? You have got eyes. When there is some particle in the eye, so close and find out where is the particle. Why making this way, this way, this way? So what is the value of your eyes? This is the proof. You cannot see even your eyelids. So why do... Why you are so much proud of seeing?" Is it not?

Devotee (3): Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1975, Vrndavana:

Harikeśa: As soon as the desires completely change, then everything else is purified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As Arjuna said, kariṣye vacana tava, naṣṭo mohaḥ: "Now my illusion is over. I agree to act as you say." This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Naṣṭo moha smṛtir labdh tvat prasādān madhusūdana. (break) The moha is there. Moha means these desires are illusion, like dreaming. In dream we see so many things. They are all false. In dreaming I am seeing that somebody is coming to kill me but there is nobody, but still, I am dreaming. This is called moha. So when one is free from moha, then he's Kṛṣṇa conscious. The whole material world is going on under such illusion. Therefore it is called māyā. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is unhappy, America, India, god or beast everyone is unhappy. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya, bhaya means fearfulness. That is unhappiness. Everyone is afraid what will happen next. This is unhappiness. So either you be Indira Gandhi or a street dog, that is nature's law. Nobody is happy. That they cannot understand that there is no happiness, and he's trying to make development for happiness. Actually there is no happiness. This is struggle for existence. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7), with the mind and the senses he's trying for happiness, but there is no happiness. That is called illusion. That is called illusion. There is no happiness and he's trying to get happiness. Happiness is beyond the senses, material senses. Sukham atyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyam grāhyam (BG 6.21), if you want real happiness that is transcendental happiness, not this sense happiness.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Such mind is imperfect. What is this satisfaction? If mind is imperfect, so mental satisfaction is never complete satisfaction. That is also another illusion. It will be changed again. Again revolution. This is going on. So in the dialectic process, try to bring this thesis, that within this body there is the real enjoyer, and try to convince them in that way. That will be great service.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. (break) ...two cases. One was my friend, and he was a big man. So one servant, he advised him that "You do like this." He was immediately dismissed. I have got experience. "You are trying to advise me? Get out immediately." Huh?

Guḍākeśa: Very good example. So if we try to advise God...

Prabhupāda: No, God is not so foolish that... But He laughs that "This man has come to advise."

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: That means that māyā is just like a magician.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means magician. Māyā means... māyā means affection, māyā means illusion, magician, so many things—strength, potency.

Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is your explanation why the sun changes colors?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: What is your explanation as to why the sun changes colors?

Prabhupāda: Sun is moving. You are seeing through some color. Then it is color.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No mistake, no illusion, no cheating, no imperfection. Anyone who commits mistake, he's illusioned, he's a cheater and imperfect—he cannot lead. So bring any leader of these rascal groups and test with these four principles; he is misleader.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That already told. He does not commit any mistake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that I understand.

Prabhupāda: He is not illusioned, he is not a cheater, and he is perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now you've defined a perfect leader. What is a perfect system? What are the criterion for a perfect system?

Prabhupāda: Perfect system means from which we do not suffer. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No suffering.

Prabhupāda: No suffering.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Just to break the pot. That is their (indistinct)

Madhudviṣa: But what is the breaking of the pot?

Lokanātha: The pot doesn't refer to the body but the illusion. They want to get rid of not the body but the illusion.

Prabhupāda: No, illusion in this sense, that I am covered by the pot, it will break or I shall break, and when it is broken then there is no more pot. I become one with the sky.

Madhudviṣa: So why should you endeavor for it? It's going to happen anyway.

Prabhupāda: To break it as soon as possible. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Carol Jarvis: No, I'm not unhappy. I'm perfectly happy.

Prabhupāda: No, that is your ignorance. Nobody is happy. That is.... Then it is the happiness of the dog. He is also thinking happy. The hog is also thinking happy. That is another illusion. The dog may be a very big dog, and he can bark very nicely, but he is not happy because he has got a master. As soon as the master, "Come here," "Yes." Chain.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

technology?

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?

Devotee (1): They want to think they're the body. They don't want to hear that "I'm not the body," because if they're not in illusion, they can't try and enjoy so much the things of the West.

Prabhupāda: That means foolish, less intelligent.

Guru-kṛpā: We are walking across everyone's field to go the river, and they are saying, "Haribol!"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...there's no such thing. "I believe." Immediately.... What Kṛṣṇa says, that's true. That is our movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What I believe? I'm a nonsense. I am.... I have got four defects in my life: illusion, mistake, cheating, insufficiency. What is the meaning of my belief? A cheater saying, "I believe," I have to accept if I know that he's a cheat? (break) ...the public, by misleading them they have gone to moon.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: This is their punishment. They are being punished, but if you think that "I am punished," they will die. You must take it "I'm enjoying." This is māyā's energy. They are being punished, but punishment they are taking as enjoyment. Illusion. The conditioned soul is illusioned. This is illusion. He is being punished, and he's thinking "I am enjoying." That is a concession. When he's punished, he may not be woke up with the unhappiness. Therefore he's thinking "I'm enjoying." Actually he's being punished.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There are different groups. I know that. But I do not go in detail to understand them. But our..., we have got a crucial test. That anyone who is..., does not know about Kṛṣṇa, he is put into four different types of categories as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. One category is that he is sinful. Another category is that he is rascal. Another category is that he's lowest of the mankind. Another category is that his so-called knowledge is taken away by illusory energy. So this is our test. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Anyone who is not talking about God, he is either of these group: sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind, and knowledge taken away by illusion. This is our conclusion, and that's a fact. Because a person who does not know about God, what he is? He is animal. The animal has no knowledge about God. But a human being, if he poses himself to be very learned, then he must have knowledge about God, otherwise what is his knowledge?

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Mahendra: Just like many of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were thinking, that...

Prabhupāda: They cannot think that a person, how he can produce a sky? That is beyond their conception. This is their illusion.(?) They say God is all-powerful, but He cannot produce a sky. This is their defect of knowledge. If God is all-powerful, why He cannot produce a sky? That they cannot think. Yes, He's all-powerful, cannot produce a sky. Their intellect. Poor intellect.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Most sinful.

Hari-śauri: Most sinful, or his knowledge is stolen by illusion. (break)

Bharadvāja: I understand, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the pure devotee can be as pervasive as Supersoul?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bharadvāja: By the mercy of Supersoul, he can be present in many places at once?

Prabhupāda: Yes. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, a devotee can become anything.

Duryodhana-guru: So in other words that means the pure devotees can be omniscient?

Prabhupāda: Everything. God is omniscient, so a pure devotee can become omniscient by the grace of God.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Arnold Weiss: This is a lesson in learning through contrast, the contrast of suffering versus not suffering.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Suffering, this is only suffering. This material world is only suffering, but under illusion we are accepting suffering as enjoyment.

Arnold Weiss: Is this because the illusion that we see is a representation of the spiritual world in a sense?

Prabhupāda: Illusion is another punishment. We wanted to forget God, and God's illusory energy is giving him facility to forget God. This is called illusory energy.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is in Sanskrit, or, you know, ahaṁ mameti. Aham means I, and mama means mine. This is the illusion. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). Gradually.... First of all, there is attraction, male and female, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam. The whole material world existing on sex attachment. Puṁsaḥ means male, and striyā means female. Their attachment. Even before marriage or unity, the attachment is there. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etaṁ tayor mithaḥ. And when they actually unite, hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ, the hard knot in the heart, hard knot. Then after unity.... If, suppose one is married or united, then they want apartment, gṛha, then field. Formerly they used to earn money by producing food from the field. There was no factory. So ato gṛha-kṣetra, then children, then friends, then accumulation of money, ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8). With all these things, the conception of "I" and "mine" increases, and he becomes entangled.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You call it any love, the real idea is how to unite man and woman, that's all. That is the idea. Real, basic principle is how to unite a man and woman. It goes on as friend or husband and wife or this or that. The real purpose is they want to unite. And that unity is for sex. And then both of them become entangled. Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is moha, illusion. What is that explanation?

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ignorance.

Rāmeśvara: ...or ignorance, then you're missing the reality of life and you're living in an illusion. Due to your senses you're living, you could live, be living in illusion. The senses are not perfect instruments for understanding reality. There is another process for understanding reality. The senses are not perfect. Therefore one should not depend upon the senses to understand reality. There is a greater process.

Richard: And how is that found?

Prabhupāda: You find out this verse: sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam.

Rāmeśvara: What's the second word, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Sukham ātyantikam.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So here is definitive knowledge, in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There's no question of "I believe" or "You believe." No. What you are, your belief? You may believe wrongly. You are not perfect. They do not accept this, that every one of the conditioned souls is imperfect with four defects: illusion, committing mistake, cheating, and imperfectness of senses. Who will say it is not? It is. If you have got imperfect senses, then what is the use of your belief? If the child says "Oh, there is no father. I have never seen my father," does it mean there is no father? Because you are child, because you have got mother, there must be father, you believe or not believe.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So Prabhupāda replied that "We are not interested in so-called other gurus. Simply we know this, that Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that persons who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they're either foolish, miscreants, sinful, lowest amongst mankind, or their knowledge is stolen by illusion." Unquote.

Prabhupāda: General definition.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Los Angeles Times has a circulation of one and a half million daily. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...recently I said all these so-called gurus are either rascals, miscreant, lowest of the mankind, or they have no knowledge. Not directly, indirectly.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How's that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is fact. These rascals come here for women and money, that's all. They do not know what is spiritual life. If I say like that, you think it is right or wrong?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You're right.

Devotee: Good idea. You didn't compromise.

Prabhupāda: Why compromise? (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think the nondevotees would like to be classified in one of those four categories.

Prabhupāda: But they are. They may not, they may like or not like, it doesn't matter, but they are. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that even persons who come to Kṛṣṇa with material desires, although...

Prabhupāda: They are pious.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Puṣṭa-Kṛṣṇa: The feeling of being lost. Kapiladeva's instructions? He wants to know if the identification with matter is the same thing as craziness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mūḍha. (Sanskrit) What is that verse? Everyone is working under illusion of māyā, until he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Indian man (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it better for gṛhasthas to be self-supporting and living outside the temple? Like somebody working all day and following the regulative principles?

Prabhupāda: Temple is meant for rendering service to the Lord. So if anyone is rendering service to the Lord, he can live. But not for sense gratification. Those gṛhasthas who still have desire for sense gratification, they may live outside.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is knowledge, that "I am simply acting for the benefit and comfort of the body. This is simply waste of time. I must act spiritually." That is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the heart. He is wrongly working on the basis of bodily concept of life. That illusion is over simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This is the first installment, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, and bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Then he is in the process to stop the blazing fire of material existence. Then vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Then the ocean of transcendental bliss increases. Ānandāmbudhi-vardanaṁ sarvātmānam snapanaṁ. Wholesale blissful life. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. All glories to the chanting of Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana. Then the other processes... That is described in the Śikṣāṣṭaka. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift, that kevalaya bhaktya. All the practices of austerities, penances, and mystic yoga, and so on, so on. There are so many things. Everything will be totally achieved simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Bhakti.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Ṛṣi Kumāra: There's no enjoyment out there. It's all illusion. I think I tried everything.

Prabhupāda: I was surprised that "How Ṛṣi Kumāra can fall down like this?" I had so confidence of this boy from the very beginning. He was so nice, so pure. And māyā is so strong. But could not do very well, māyā, very long. Thank Kṛṣṇa and... So stay with us. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy, special mercy. So always be calm and chant and pray to Kṛṣṇa. Don't spoil this life. It is so valuable. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. The sense gratification can be available in every life, cats and dogs also. Why should we sacrifice the greatest boon of human life? Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Is it not possible to see him?

Rādhāvallabha: Trivikrama Mahārāja went to see him, but he was too much in illusion.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. Still, I want to see.

Rādhāvallabha: You?

Prabhupāda: He was very good boy.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is thinking that "I am American." So if a human being is thinking "I am American," "Indian," or something like that, and if a dog is thinking "I am dog," then where is the difference between the mentalities?

Dr. Sukla: Of course, both, perhaps, are victim of some kind of illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is illusion. That we are trying to describe. But this is going on. As the dog is thinking, "I am dog," the human being is also thinking that "I am American," "I am Indian," or...

Dr. Sukla: Then, perhaps, there is no difference.

Prabhupāda: No difference. That is described in the śāstra. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is made of... Everyone knows what is the composition: the bones, the flesh, the blood, the urine, the stool and so on, so on. The body, what is the composition? This is the composition. So if I identify with these bones, flesh, blood, muscle, veins, and stool, urine, so I am a living entity, I am all these bones and flesh and blood?

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest: There's a very nice story about this illusion. That once he was walking and someone who knew that Śaṅkarācārya preached this illusion business, was riding on an elephant, so he asked his driver, "Chase Śaṅkarācārya." And of course he did and Śaṅkarācārya started running. So this man said, "Why are you running, since this is illusion?" And he said, "So is my running." (laughter) He said, "So is my running, that's also an illusion."

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They say, they may say, but first of all, what is the position of the conditioned soul? Four defects. You must commit mistakes, you must be illusioned, his senses are imperfect, and he's a cheater. These are the four defects of conditioned souls. So how the conditioned soul can give perfect knowledge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is our conclusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The position of conditioned soul is that he must commit mistake, and he's illusioned, and his senses are imperfect, and he wants to cheat. Everyone speaks something. You know that he has no perfect knowledge in the subject matter, still he wants to speak something. That means he wants to cheat. This is going on. And then after some years somebody says, "No, it was not correct." That means he cheated. The former scientists or philosophers cheated.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientists at the present time, they say like this because their knowledge is simply illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Real knowledge is covered.

Prabhupāda: Just like this planetary system. So many planets are there. They do not know anything. And they are going to the Mars. They are going to the moon. All bluff. Two things unsolved. They do not know what is life and they do not know what are these planetary system. And still, they are speaking on these two subjects as authority. That is bluff.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Never be. You hear from God; then you have got perfect knowledge. And if you want to become scientist more than God, then you'll never know it. But their real propaganda is "There is no God." That is their real propaganda.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the root cause of this illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to prove "There is no God. Everything is science." However rascaldom it may be, "It is everything." But we are preaching about God. How we can tolerate? We must expose them. That is our business.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, because it comes by superior order, not by your order. Daiva-netreṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that's good that now science is trying that in about fifty years or so, at the turn of the century, they have a strong hope that they will be able to understand the meaning of life from this chemical concept. But when they see that that's not possible, then they have to come around that what they thought was completely illusion. In that case, our...

Prabhupāda: Case will be strong.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, then everybody will accept.

Prabhupāda: You can challenge that "You cannot do it."

Rūpānuga: You once said that because people are becoming more educated and scientific-minded, they are rejecting these religions. So similarly, because they are becoming more educated and scientific minded...

Prabhupāda: So-called educated, they are becoming fools.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

rabhupāda: Because he was fool in the beginning, and after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he became intelligent. Why don't you take in that way? In the beginning, he was rascal. Therefore he needed instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, what did he say? Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā. Find out this verse. Naṣṭo mohaḥ, "Now my illusion is over." Smṛtir labdhā tvat prasādān madhusūdana.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Practice this. Your mind, when he says something hodgepodge, just beat him with shoes. Just to bring him in order. Here is the real understanding, that

naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā

tvat prasādān mayācyuta

sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ

kariṣye vacanaṁ tava

(BG 18.73)

This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whether you are prepared to act according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Otherwise you are in darkness. So as Arjuna, he was in the darkness... He's kṣatriya. The fight was arranged between the two sections of the family, Pāṇḍavas and Kurus, and when he was to fight actually with his family members, he became bewildered, that "Kṛṣṇa, what is this? I'll have to kill my family members." So then he became His disciple, that "I am kṣatriya, it is my duty to fight. Now I am hesitating." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ (BG 2.7). "I'm just deviating from my duty, so Kṛṣṇa, I accept You as my guru-kindly give me instruction." So that Bhagavad-gītā was given instruction... (break) He agreed, "Yes, now my illusion is over, I shall fight." This is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. If you follow Arjuna as he understood, then your understanding of Bhagavad-gītā is perfect. If you do not understand, then you have not understood what is Kṛṣṇa's speaking and what is Bhagavad-gītā.

Comments on Bhagavad-gita Play -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The whole basic principle is this, that people should understand, as I was explaining this morning, the sat and asat. So at the present moment we are living in the way that is asat. But there is another life, sat. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to raise a person from the asat platform to the sat. Under illusion they are, what is called, amock? They (laughs) have gone amock. So it is a humble attempt to stop their, this suicidal policy. They are practically committing suicide. They do not know what is the value of life and how they are spoiling it, this valuable life. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to adjust things by the arrangement of external energy. That is not possible. Whatever adjustment they are making, so many big, big leaders, politicians, they came. Napoleon, Hitler, Gandhi, this, that, by the waves of material nature everything is driven away. In that way there is no possibility of adjustment. It is not... Kathacaturamanam mali mali javanam(?) How many, caturānana. Caturānana means Brahmā. They come and go, come and go. And there is no permanent life, it is all asat. So they should come to the sat platform, that is perfect. The more you remain strong in your spiritual life, then more it will be impressed, it will act. And if it actually is not spiritual life but theatrical performance, then it will not help.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So this is the civilization of the asuras, and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or without any knowledge of the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, people are grouped as duṣkṛtina, miscreants; mūḍhas, rascals; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say that "So many people, they are educated highly in the university, how they can be taken as miscreants, rascals and lowest of the mankind?" the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have got knowledge, so-called knowledge, but they are lacking in real knowledge. Knowledge means to get out of distress. That is knowledge. But the real distress remains as it is. They cannot avoid death, they cannot avoid birth, they cannot avoid old age. And still they are claiming they are making progress in happiness. So that is called illusion.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: They can manufacture so many. Fertile brain in the tract of deserted world. This world is desert, and they have got fertile brain. They call? The fertile land in the deserted land, in the desert, is called oasis. So similarly, these rascals, they have got fertile brain in the world of desert, where there is no happiness. But they have got fertile brain, how to manufacture happiness. And māyā kicks on their face and baffles everything. This is the illusion. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). They, the world is desert, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), but they have got fertile brain, how to become happy. And as soon as they make some arrangement, kicks on his face and he falls down. That's all. What do you think? Is it right? Sometimes you have got fertile brain. (laughter) This fertile brain, he will not accept. He'll be kicked out. Everything will be finished. If you want to be happy, then you have to go back home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. Otherwise, your fertile brain will... What do you think, Jyotirmāyī? You are intelligent.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: The body means sickness. The body itself is sickness.

Harikeśa: In illusion I think I come back here, I get healthy. In illusion I think if I leave India and come here I will get healthy. But I come here I also get sick. I go there I also get sick. (laughs) You seem to be much better now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, little better. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...thinking of how to utilize the whole land. The situation is very good, good prospect. I want that self-independent here, as far as possible. But you have got enough materials. With woods you can make cottages. Then land becomes clear, then utilize it.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Let them come, we shall see. My point is why they do not see any other spot? Only these spots are visible, where there are rocks? They say Howrah station is closed. No sane man will believe that, that Howrah station is closed.

Jñānagamya: They do not want to upset the illusion that they are God, that they are the only ones in the universe. So if they find out there is life on another planet, they will not like it. If there is higher life somewhere else, they will not like that. They are always in competition.

Prabhupāda: And all the higher lifes are in Europe and America. Especially in America, eh? That is their mania. They do not like that there may be higher lifes, you said. They like it that there may not be any higher life. That is their preconception.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). This is understanding. "Now my illusion is gone," naṣṭo mohaḥ. Smṛtir labdhā. "I am in my original consciousness." So what you'll do? Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. "You are asking to me to fight? I shall do it." Everything is explained. Kṛṣṇa gives you freedom, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). And one who understands Kṛṣṇa, he says, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. That's it. Not by interpretation, or refuse by interpretation. That is not Kṛṣṇa's... Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. This is understanding. Otherwise simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). If you like, you can waste your time. And find out this verse, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69), ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Find that verse, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is real religion.

Harikeśa: "Arjuna said: My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real... That is translated in Bengali,

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

(Cc. madhya 22.107)

Now I have, now I, naṣṭo mohaḥ, now my illusion is over (Sanskrit) That is (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa gives you liberty, whatever you like you do. But when you come to the conclusion, "No, I shall do what you say," that is perfection. I can do whatever I like. That liberty is there. But if I accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, that is bhakti.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me."

Prabhupāda: That's it. So you'll find everyone of this description, either sinful, or lowest of the mankind, or rascal, or puffed-up with false knowledge, but the basic principle is: no God. So the only solution is let them first of all become God conscious. Then all solution. Otherwise there is no hope.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Pradyumna: Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛha. Everyone is attached. And this is ignorance. This is illusion. That developed society, community, nationality. But what is that? That attachment. But that attachment has to be taken away. That is knowledge. But we are teaching people how to become more and more attached in the name of Communism, Socialism, this ism, that ism, nationalism. These things are not given. The truth in all this means increasing putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. Not asakti but āsakti. Increasing ignorance. Then?

Pradyumna: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu.

Prabhupāda: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam. We should not be disturbed by this worldly disturbance. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real business is how to stop this birth, death, old age and disease. But they are not concerned with these things. They are simply disturbed with little temporary discomfort.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone must make mistake because a conditioned soul are liable to four defects. One of them is to commit mistake. One of them is to become illusioned. One of them, he is a cheater. And one of them, his senses are imperfect. So every conditioned soul who has got this material body, he is defective in these four things. Therefore he has to take knowledge from a person who has no defects. Then his knowledge will be perfect. Just like a small child, he is defective, but he receives the knowledge from the father: "This is called pencil." A child does not know what it is, but the father says, "My dear child, it is pencil." And if he says, "It is pencil," then it is correct, although he's a child, because he has received the knowledge from the person who knows it. Similarly, our principle is—that is Vedic principle-evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The knowledge has to be taken from the superior, liberated person.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but that is the first instruction: "Don't be attached to this body." So if we remain attached up to the point of death to the maithuna or maithuna product, then the same illusion. That is said.

Dr. Patel: So you have to leave the body consciousness and become soul conscious perpetually. It is...

Prabhupāda: And that soul consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes. So... But in the soul consciousness...

Dr. Patel: Becoming brahma-bhūtaḥ, you have to worship Para-brahman Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Cent percent Kṛṣṇa consciousness is liberation.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You cannot educate, neither you bring. This is māyā. Do you think... Do you think that only in your presence your children will be happy? There are... Just see here in the corner, the father, mother, and the child is always, twenty-four hours, crying. The father, mother, is there. They are poor men, they are taking care, but still, the child is unhappy; it is crying twenty-four hours. There are many you'll find. So does it mean that in the presence of father, mother, a child is happy? Everyone is being conducted by his destiny. The father, mother, may be there or may not be there; his destiny will go on. This is the law of nature. You see here. Do you mean to say, because that man is poor, he's not taking care of the child? Why the child is crying twenty-four hours? So if one child is made to cry by his destiny, even in the presence of his father, mother, he has to cry. Nobody can make him happy. So this is called illusion, that "I am doing." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, he thinks like that. But it is not the fact. The fact is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ. His destiny or her destiny is to suffer. So even though father, mother... Suppose a rich man's son is sick. He has engaged good physician, good doctor. Does it mean that he will guarantee life? Then what is the principle? Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "It is not a fact that when the children are under the protection of father and mother, he's secure." Tvad-upekṣitānām: "If You neglect, that 'This child must cry; this child must die,' then even by the greatest care of the father and mother, he will die." So what is the use, saying that your duty...? Duty? That is māyā.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Where is your freedom? Where is your freedom if for your livelihood you have to go a hundred miles? Where is your freedom? Why you are illusioned? For your bread, you have to go hundred miles off, either by car or by train. So where is your freedom?

Rāmeśvara: The freedom is in leisure time. They have a lot of leisure time.

Prabhupāda: Where is leisure time? You rise early in the morning and start for your office. Where is your leisure time? All imagination. I have seen in New York. They are coming from the other parts, starting early in the morning, two hours in the ferry and two hours in the cars, and standing two hours. What is this? Leaders, rich men, can think like that, that "I have leisure," but a worker, lower class, they have no freedom. That is illusion, and we are trying to give freedom to everyone. That is freedom. You are forced to go to the factory and work there in a hellish condition of life. Is that freedom?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And they are trying to save harassment by nature's law. That is impossible. That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, rascal, and under false prestige they are trying to save themselves. And ultimately crushed—death. Struggling, struggling... Now, last word—death. Finish. Now, according to your karma, "All right, you just become a tree." Finish. "Stand up here for five thousand years." This is nature's... And these rascal scientists have no knowledge of this, "Wherefrom the tree comes? Why the tree is standing there for five thousand years, and I have got good car? Why this difference of position? He is also living entity; I am also." They have no brain. That is also living entity. "This tree is dead." Dead means it has life. So wherefrom the life came? Who made him a tree and made him a prime minister? Who made him? They cannot answer all these questions. Simply blindly following their own mental concoction. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Everything is there.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

suyate sa-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

(BG 9.10)

Who cares for all these instructions? By illusion everyone is thinking, "My these happy days will go on." And one slap: "Get out! Become a tree." This is all imagination? Mythology? "I am finished." The Russians, they have concluded, "Oh, this life finished—everything is finished." One sense, one, everything is finished because this so-called happy life is finished. Very dangerous civilization to keep the human society in darkness. (aside:) The draft is coming from up. That you cannot stop.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your scientific knowledge, your car, means you are more dependent. Now, suppose you have to stay here. You had to, some very important business. Now whole thing is finished. But if you have calculated without having this car, then you would have done your duty. So the more material advancement means more you become dependent, more you become rascal. That is calculation by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava, jīvake karaye gādhā, tomāra bhajane bādhā. Anitya saṁsāre, moha janamiyā, jīvake karaye gādhā. My business is that how to leave this material conditional life and become free. Now, with this so-called advancement of science I am becoming more and more attached. So I'll never get freedom. This is the result. Because I am trying in different way how to get, freedom. "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it. We shall do this." Gādhā, ass. You'll die trillions of times within millions of years, and he is expecting good result of his scientific... By the time, he'll become a banyan tree and stand there by nature's law, and he's expecting good result after millions of years. So gādhā, ass. Durāśaya. This has been described as durāśaya. He's expecting something, hoping something, will never be fulfilled. They calculate. "Millions of years we shall get how to make life." And the, an ordinary chicken, he is doing this within seven days. And these rascals will have to wait for millions of years and wait that a life is coming from the egg, and other rascals, set of rascals, they are accepting. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha. Which he will never be able to do, he is expecting... "We shall do it." This is also called another logic, nyāya, bakāṇḍa-nyāya. You have seen bakāṇḍa-nyāya? Baka and aṇḍa. One bull is going and his testicle hanging, and another duck, he is thinking, "It is a fish. It will drop, and I shall take it." This is practical. This is psych... You'll see a bull is going on and testicle hanging, and another duck is going after him. From this baka the word baka has come. Sometimes we say baka. This bakāṇḍa-nyāya.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: And somebody is expecting milk from that nipple. Nature's study. Therefore knowledge is in India. There is no doubt. If you want to become perfect, you have to take knowledge from India, this Vedic literature. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that take, assimilate of the Vedic knowledge, and distribute it to the other parts of world. That is para-upakāra, real welfare activity. Because they are in darkness. What do they know, Western countries, about this knowledge? They think by this dog race... "A dog is running by four leg, and I am running by four-wheel car. I am advanced." That's all. That is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Moha, another illusion. Rascal, what you will do with this world, four-wheeling? You'll have to die like the dog. What you have done for this? You are very much proud. "The dog is running with four legs, and I have got a Rolls Royce car.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, we say that this place is suffering. Therefore we have to leave this, our total exi... We don't say "This place is for suffering, and by material advancement of science we shall improve." We don't say. We totally reject it, that "It is a place of suffering. Why shall I remain here?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their argument will be that "By illusion, you are thinking there is an alternative world."

Prabhupāda: It may be illusion to you. It is fact to us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But so it is fact to a lunatic," they'll say, "that he also has his mind thinking something. You are simply dreaming."

Prabhupāda: But we may be dreaming, but factually what you have done? Ours may be dreaming, but yours, factually what you have done? You could not stop birth, death, old age, and disease. But I am suffering from this disease. You cannot stop it. I'll die. You cannot stop it.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, who is healthy if he's going to die? "I am so healthy that I am going to die tomorrow." This is their health.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Illusion. They don't know. Every one of those questions was about the body.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That is healthy, when you do not die even the body is destroyed. That is healthy life. What is this healthy life? The body is finished and everything, everything is... Actually everything is finished. And to keep people in that ignorance—"The body is finished; everything is finished." That's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa very clearly said, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even how it is possible. That is the most important question. Some lady asked me, "What is the important...?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What is the most important thing in life?"

Prabhupāda: This is the most important question.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda:

The Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa is the only controller, and all living entities are controlled by Him. These living entities are His superior energy because the quality of their existence is one and the same with the Supreme, but they are never equal to the Lord in quantity of power. While exploiting the gross and subtle inferior energy (matter), the superior energy (the living entity) forgets his real spiritual mind and intelligence. This forgetfulness is due to the influence of matter upon the living entity. But when the living entity becomes free from the influence of the illusory material energy, he attains the stage called mukti, or liberation. The false ego, under the influence of material illusion, thinks, "I am matter, and material acquisitions are mine." His actual position is realized when he is liberated from all material ideas, including the conception of his becoming one in all respects with God. Therefore one may conclude that the Gītā confirms the living entity to be only one of the multi-energies of Kṛṣṇa; and when this energy is freed from material contamination, it becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, or liberated.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, as we improve material life...

Prabhupāda: No, where is improved? You are going to be a dog, suppose. Where is your improvement?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's an illusion.

Prabhupāda: They lose.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are thinking that we are improving, but actually we are not solving the problems.

Śatadhanya: You said the other day that if we analyze what the scientists have done, we will see that they have actually done nothing beneficial, no benefit. Whatever they have done has no benefit, simply some comfort of the body. But what benefit it has?

Prabhupāda: Just like they have improved... A man is going to die. By oxygen, by other, other, he may live for a few minutes more. They say, "This is improvement."

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Man came and said he could do anything. Make any trick or illusion. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: And they have done so in the matter of moon planet. They've never gone there by laboratory arrangement. Arizona?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Arizona.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is their business. They might have presented such devices in a book, a different color. Just like medical science. The preparation is nothing, but they'll employ big, big medical students to write in such a way that it will be presented as very important. They are doing this. We have done in Dr. Bose's laboratory. They employ. (speaks garbled words to sound like big words) Go on speaking. (laughter) It sounds very nice. What is the meaning of? (more garbled phrases) So I have got my own common sense. I understand. (indistinct) in the Vedic literatures.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is acintya for the Māyāvādīs. They say kalpanāyā. These Akhandananda and other Māyāvādīs, they explain Bhāgavata-kalpanāyā. They are making some imagination that "I am God," but they are alleging us, that "You are in illusion." God, as soon as there is some toothache, he goes to the doctor. He's such a rascal hypocrite. There was some heart attack going on, so Akhandananda, immediately he called one of his chief disciples, that Mishra, Jasri, and he was taken to Bombay hospital. And he's God.

Room Conversation About 10th Canto -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that means Kṛṣṇa's mystic power more than him.

Pradyumna: Here it's said, sammohayan viṣṇum. Viṣṇum—the all-pervading Lord Kṛṣṇa. So Viṣṇu (Sanskrit). Vimoham—He who can never come under illusion, Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Vimoham, yes.

Pradyumna: (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: He cannot be mystified.

Room Conversation About 10th Canto -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then it says, (Sanskrit). So mohayan vatsa-bāla-steyena, "By stealing the vatsa and bālas," mohayitum upakramamāṇaḥ... Viśvanātha Cakravartī says, "Just beginning to try to make him illusioned." (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: I have already explained that.

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Instead of bewildering Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eleven.

Bharadvāja: Then the last exhibit is not yet complete. It's a film. It shows Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna at the end talking, and Kṛṣṇa says,

sarva-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

(BG 18.66)

Then Kṛṣṇa asks Arjuna, "Have you heard all this with your mind at full attention, and is your doubt and illusion now dispelled, and are you prepared to act according to My instructions?" And Arjuna says, "Yes, I shall do whatever You like."

Prabhupāda: Very good. So it is not yet officially open.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says it's illusion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he said it's illusion.

Prabhupāda: But he quotes from the Ramakrishna.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why is she talking? Why talk? Everything is illusion. Then why talk?

Brahmānanda: She said there are two paths. I said, "Yes, but your path is most difficult. So why are you promoting the most difficult path to follow?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But who cares for her path?

Akṣayānanda: (indistinct) a different path.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. You remain strong. Don't be intimidated by this... That is my request.