Devotee: They are gambling and eating flesh right in the churches, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, I mean to say, if you don't follow the Christian principles, how you can claim yourself to become a Christian and how you can ask Jesus Christ to take responsibility for you? These are misleading, therefore people are coming disgusted. Otherwise Christian religion is all right. It teaches love of Godhead, teaches to become moral, it teaches to love people, that's nice. These are good principles.
Viṣala: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says, "Thou shalt not kill", and the Christians say, "Yes, thou shalt not kill but you can kill animals." (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Where it is written that thou shalt not kill animals? "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not kill," means you shall not kill anything. (break)
Devotee: ...because Jesus ate fish. (laughter)
Devotee (6): He said, "The fish can say, 'Its not what goes in your mouth, its what comes out of your mouth that's important.' "
Devotee: Because Jesus ate fish.
Prabhupāda: Jesus said?
Devotee (6): He said that the... (break)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) allowed.
Devotee (6): But if there's no vegetables you have to eat something.
Śyāmasundara: I read an article once that said...
Prabhupāda: No, no, the thing is that one has to eat. And whatever you eat that is coming out of some living entity, even if you eat vegetables. The vegetable has also life, the tree, the plant. So, the real explanation is that you take which is offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is nice philosophy. Killing you have to do, either you kill vegetable or animal, killing you have to do. Therefore our proposition is that you take the prasādam of Kṛṣṇa, so if killing is bad then the responsibility goes to Kṛṣṇa. We take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. This is the method. And Bhagavad-gītā says, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ mucyante sarva kilbiṣaiḥ. Suppose you don't kill animal, but you kill vegetables, but still you are responsible. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). Anyone who is preparing food for his personal eating, he's eating all sinful activities. It may be vegetables or animals, it doesn't matter. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā. So this is the best formula. But therefore, for crude people, those who are accustomed to killing, for them this is best advice, "Thou shalt not kill". Next stage-prasādam. First of all let them stop. Generally, what is meant by killing... Actually vegetarians, they do not kill, because if you take fruit from the tree, the tree is not killed. Is it not?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You take grains, just like paddy or wheat. These plants, after producing the fruit, the grain, automatically they die. You are not killing. So, those who are taking fruits, vegetable, grains, they are not actually killing. You take the milk... What is milk? Milk is transformation of the blood. So, cow's milk means cow's blood, but still the cow is not killed. Cow's blood is nutritious, accepting this theory. Karnish (?), karnish it is called? Cow's blood? What is the meaning of karnish (?)? But by nature's way she is delivering you the blood which is nutritious—according to your science—but why you should kill her? So any circumstances, the direct killing is not approved by any śāstra, any religion. Jīva hiṁsā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, niṣiddhācāra jīva-hiṁsā. So, jiva hiṁsā, violence upon other animals, that is against Vaiṣṇava principle. You cannot be violent, you cannot kill.
Devotee (2): "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the ten commandments which is much older than Jesus' teachings. Moses delivered the ten commandments to the people of Israel thousands of years before Jesus appeared. So they knew all this before Jesus.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (2): They lived by the ten commandments, or were expected to, way before Jesus appeared. The ten commandments are Moses, Moses' teachings.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of kashruth, how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.
Devotee: That came after the Book of Misrad. Misrad recommends vegetarian.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Really?
Devotee: And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that "By my hand you shall be slain.". In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.
Devotee (1): Also, in Genesis is says that the fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat. It's describing how man should live and it says that fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they were meat-eaters, so Jesus Christ replies that fruit should be your meat.
Devotee: The whole key is that (indistinct) disregard everything that has been taught in the past and listen to me. He speaks so many things and he does not lay out so many basic principles about the eating of flesh, having illicit sex connections and so many things. He speaks just slightly touching the subject. He doesn't really give any basic principles. So they always say, "Well, its okay to do this, its okay to do that, because Jesus said forget everything that was said in the past. That's their basic principle.
Devotee (1): And he also said, "I've not come to change the law." He did not come to change the law.
Devotee: That's just their standpoint. (indistinct) I don't mean to argue.
Śyāmasundara: The knowledge that we have of Jesus was not direct, but it was written down up to a 100 or 200 years later in another language called Aramaic, and scholars recently have discovered that wherever Jesus refers to fish, distributing fish, that that word actually refers to a type of sea plant that grows in the Sea of Galilee which they make a type of bread out of. And it's not really fish but a type of vegetarian bread. This is what I read in an article. So, we don't have... (laughter)