Prabhupāda: ...no more desire of material enjoyment he is fit for sannyāsa. Anyone who sees: "Oh, this car is very nice. This beautiful wife is very... A very beautiful woman is very nice," he should not think of taking sannyāsa. Viṣa-bhakṣaṇād apy asādhu: "Such desires is most abominable, more than taking poison." To commit suicide by taking poison is most abominable thing, because he's going to be a ghost. He'll be punished to become a ghost, those who commit suicide. Or, if one is suddenly killed and he has so many desires, he becomes ghost. Therefore viṣa-bhakṣaṇa, taking poison, and die untimely, is most abominable, or commit suicide. By the material law also, to attempt to commit suicide is criminal. You know that?
Devotees: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is criminal. (Bengali) If you take s annyāsa... Just like there are so many sannyāsīs, for filling up the belly. Wherever you go they give some alms. But in..., outside India, who cares for the sannyāsī? Then why you should be eager to take sannyāsa and cheat yourself? You cannot cheat others, but you can cheat yourself.
Hṛdayānanda: Outside India a sannyāsī will starve.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) So I do not know why our disciples are so anxious to take sannyāsa, at least those who are outside. Everyone comes: "Give me sannyāsa." What is the idea?
Jayapatākā: Freedom from authority.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh? Who cares him, for authority.
Jayapatākā: No, they, they don't want to take order as brahmacārī. If they're sannyāsī they think they can do as they feel.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They all want to become leaders.
Prabhupāda: So what kind of leader? If you cannot lead others, what kind of leader?
Jayapatākā: That's why a brahmacārī should...
Prabhupāda: If you mislead them, if you mislead them, then what is the use of taking leadership?
Jayapatākā: That's why that system where a brahmacārī is recommended for one year and then he proves himself by doing some extraordinary preaching work is a very good system. Otherwise, anyone just comes and by pressurizing and begging and pleading, then they try to take sannyāsa. Then they don't stay to the path.
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa means ultimate success, because this human life is meant for becoming disgusted with this material life: "No more." Material life means to take a body and enjoy this material āhāra-nidrā, sleeping twenty-four hours, eating like elephant, and sex life like a monkey, these animals. This is material life, eating, sleeping, mating, and always afraid of. This is material life. And human life means to take freedom from these four things: no more afraid, no more sex, no more hankering after eating or sleeping. That is success. Everyone... You'll see in the sparrow in the morning. They're enjoying sex. So this is material life: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. And spiritual life means to become free from all this nonsense. That is spiritual life. They do not know what is spiritual life. The whole world, they do not know what is spiritual life. This is spiritual life, to become free from these four abominable things.
Hṛdayānanda: They are trying to increase these four things.
Prabhupāda: That means cheating themselves. What is the use of taking sannyāsa and cheat yourself? Material life means punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), repeatedly doing the same thing. Either as human being or as monkey or as a small ant or the demigods, but doing the business is the same, four things: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. In different scale, doing the same business. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaḥ, "again and again," carvita-carvaṇānām, "chewing the chewed." If one is sober, he thinks that "These four business, I have done many, many lives, as sparrow, or as jackal, or as demigod, and I have got this human form. Again I am doing this? So what is benefit of this human form of life?" This is sense. "I got this valuable life, and I am still doing the same thing as dogs and cats and sparrows? Then what is the difference between me and the dogs?" That is sense. "What is my better engagement?" That better engagement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then his life is successful. Otherwise what is the use of...? Again become a sparrow. Again wait for millions of years to come by evolutionary process to the human form of life. You see? This is going on. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). Because they cannot control the sense, they are going in the darkest part of this material existence.
Dayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it seems that in youth the desire to enjoy is so much stronger than in old age.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dayānanda: It seems that in youth it is, the desire to enjoy is stronger than in old age.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. An old man is still stronger, but instruments are finished. He cannot enjoy. But the desire is there. You don't think that old man has got less desire than the young man. He has got the desire, but his instrument is finished.
Hṛdayānanda: So much frustration.
Prabhupāda: Not. He cannot use the instruments for enjoyment.
Hṛdayānanda: So he's frustrated.
Prabhupāda: Frustrated? Everyone. Whether young or not, everyone is frustrated. He says that the desire in old man... It is expected because he has gone through the gṛhastha life. Gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. That's all. It is not needed. But those who are unable to avoid it—"All right, have for some time. Then become sannyāsī." This is the process. It is not needed. So in old age, after going through these stages, brahmacārī is learning how to stop this sex life, and then, if one is still unable—"All right, take concession for twenty-five years. Then give up this habit. Then take sannyāsa." So that is the process, one who has gone through the stages, expected that he has no more... āra nārī bapa (?) "I have done..." But generally, those who are not trained up, their desire is not diminished. They have got the... That you see in your country, Western country. Seventy-five, eighty years old, they are going to the nightclub.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Paying hundreds and thousands of dollars. Where is the...? He has lost all capacity, but still, he'll go. Still, he'll go. This is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). In the club, the son is also dancing with the girl, and the old father is dancing, and by chance, they come in contact. The Western civilization is for this, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna, eat voraciously, and all become diabetics. They have got diabetes club, association. That means... What is this? Diabetes is the result of voracious eating. That's all. In old age it becomes very prominent because he eats voraciously, but he cannot digest. And all these foodstuffs becomes... What is called? Glucose?
Hari-śauri: Right.
Prabhupāda: And then diabetes. The beginning-āhāra, eating. That gentleman, that doctor who has given us that review, he has. He's very learned man.
Indian man (1): Mr. Shannam?
Prabhupāda: No, no. From France.
Devotee (2): The professor.
Prabhupāda: Hm. He has mentioned, "From the Vedic standard, we are all uncivilized. We Westerners are uncivilized." He has admitted that. Actually they are.
Dayānanda: Yes, they will be shocked when they find this out because the idea is that...
Prabhupāda: Now, just like a man is suffering from tuberculosis, and if his physician says that "You are attacked with tuberculosis," then he'll shocked. But the fact is there.
Dayānanda: They think that the Vedic culture is uncivilized.
Prabhupāda: They think because they are foolish rascals. They do not know what is the value of life. Big, big professor, he said, "Swamiji, after death everything is finished. There is no soul." Professor Kotovsky. This is their education.
Dayānanda: And then they wonder why their sons become hippies and act like monkeys. Even though they are civilized, their sons are acting like monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Actually we are introducing the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make the Western people civilized. Yes. So you should take it very seriously and behave with responsibility. If you also want, become again like that, then how you'll be able to preach? Then what is the use of preaching? What is time?
Indian man (1): Six-thirty.
Jayapatākā: (Break) ...process.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: So is it necessary to be fixed up to take sannyāsa, or one should take sannyāsa to become fixed up?
Prabhupāda: To become fixed, become sannyāsī, the other three processes are there, to become brahmacārī, to become gṛhastha, to become vānaprastha, stage by stage. But if one is able, he can take sannyāsa. The stages are there, but if one is very competent, he can be given sannyāsa. And that competency is also very simple. If you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you can immediately become competent. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). As soon as you fully engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately you become more than a sannyāsī.