Expressions researched:
"greater"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Guru-druha.
Prabhupāda: He is not a devotee. Mad-bhaktya... There is a verse. Kṛṣṇa says that "Worship of My devotee is greater worship than to Me."
Śāstrījī: Mad bhaktyā yānti mām.(?)
Prabhupāda: And Lord Śiva, he advises Parvati when she was questioning.... Oh, there is no stair from inside? You have to go like this?
Bhavānanda: No, ladder, there is outside stair that has to be fixed yet. It is just now finished in two stories.
Prabhupāda: Outside?
Bhavānanda: Outside stairs.
Prabhupāda: There was some accident, and he was taken to hospital. So he was advised, "Because you do not kill the bulls, therefore this is the accident." As if without killing..., by killing the bulls there is no accident. And they do not cite the accident by motorcar, greater bulls. Accident will be there.
Jayapatākā: Yesterday we planted paddy, paddy field.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice. But this is going to be a lawn?
Jayapatākā: Yes. It will have flower bushes and tulasī around after the construction. The botanical director suggested that on the one end we make a little arbor type covering of vine that Your Divine Grace could sit there and give lecture from there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: And the devotees could sit on the lawn.
Prabhupāda: ...this flavor. Now who can challenge? Apart from other things...
Acyutānanda: But you don't know the real cause scientifically, so you say it is a god.
Prabhupāda: No, no, you, you are scientist, but you are a greater rascal. You cannot explain. Wherefrom this flavor has come?
Acyutānanda: Well, we're working on that, and we'll find out.
Prabhupāda: But working... But we have got the already conclusion. Why should we work like a fool?
Acyutānanda: That's an excuse because you cannot explain to your children when they come.
Siddha-svarūpa: In their schools right now, their colleges, is a center of controversy, education. The one school of thought who are called revisionists—they are compared to the Russians—they say that the schools should be centered almost entirely upon economic development and technology, and that philosophy, Communist philosophy, different.... In other words, different debates or thinking more, philosophically inclined people are rejected, so that now there is a fight between whether or not the schools will be centered simply for economic development or whether they're going to be centers of what they call revolutionary activities, thinking, trying to improve their Communist understanding and Communist ideology and more philosophically inclined. So those who are pushing for greater economic development at the expense of their Communist purity or their philosophical understanding, they are now being attacked.
Pañca-draviḍa: As far as trade goes, actually Hong Kong belongs to China. It's on lease to the British government. The lease expires in twenty years or so.
Siddha-svarūpa: Eight years.
Pañca-draviḍa: Eight years. But the thing is, it's difficult for them to assume or take part in Hong Kong because it represents something like several million capitalists, which they have no use for in their country. For thirty years they've been training people in Communism. Their whole culture is centered around that Chinese language. Our books are in English, but their whole culture is...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our Chinese Gītā is coming out. It should be ready in two weeks.
Prabhupāda: It is not our policy that the whole country will be on our side. That is not.... At least some of them may be interested. That's all.
Prabhupāda: ...mana, buddhi, ahaṅkāra. And then false identification, ahaṅkāra, then soul. And the soul is so fine. I have given the definition. How they can see, "There is soul"? Dr. Kapoor: But in the ātmā, you see.... You have given a very beautiful description. The smaller the part—as they call it, potency—more powerful it becomes. So you see, they think that the bigger thing is more powerful, but here science has also proved that greater the potency, the smaller the dose, smaller the size. So similarly, as you describe that what is soul? It's fractional, fractional, fractional, fractional.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Fractional. It is smaller than the atom.
Dr. Kapoor: Final measure, the smallest fraction of anything, is soul.
Prabhupāda: One ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also favor. (Hindi) ...immediately. Mukti immediately. All the soldiers and kings who saw Kṛṣṇa in the battlefield, they were all muktas immediately. Yes. Because at the time of death they were seeing Kṛṣṇa, so they become all delivered.
Dr. Patel: They got greater benefit than the living people behind. The Pāṇḍavas, they said, that "Those people actually was... They were in presence of Kṛṣṇa. They saw their life by..."
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa.
Dr. Patel: Svarūpa.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). That is mukti. When one is situated in his own original, constitutional position, that is called mukti. Svarūpeṇa mukti. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. This is mukti.
Prabhupāda: No, temple life is a.... Just like if you go to school.... Without school you can be educated. It is not that we..., unless you go to school you can be educated. But if you go to school you get greater facilities. And that is the way. Just like in our country Rabindranath Tagore, he never went to school. You have heard the name of Rabindranath Tagore?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Rabindranath Tagore.
Prabhupāda: Tagore.
Devotee (2): He's a famous Indian poet.
Prabhupāda: So never went to school, but Oxford University gave him Ph.D. That does not mean that "I shall also receive Ph.D. like Rabindranath Tagore. I shall not go to school." The general method is: one must go to the school. Exceptional cases, that without going to school one can become Ph.D.... But we should not imitate that, that "Rabindranath Tagore got Ph.D. without going to school. I shall sit down." But the fact is that even without going to school one can get Ph.D.
Guest: The reason that I was most interested to come is that my responsibilities in Victoria are a lot to do with the growth of our young people, and I think that many of the things that we don't succeed in doing, the problems that we have with drugs and alcohol and all sorts of unhappiness, that what your life indicates has got something that I think we could do well to take parts of it, to be involved in the things, the way in which we live. And I'd be interested to hear from you as to what you would believe might be done to encourage a greater acceptance of your areas of philosophy and religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our philosophy is to purify, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Our philosophy is to purify the core of the heart from all dirty things. This is basic principle of our philosophy, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, cleansing the core of the heart. So just this morning several boys and girls became initiated. So our first promise is, before the Deity, before the fire, before the Vaiṣṇavas, before the spiritual master, that from this day no more illicit sex, no more intoxication, no more meat-eating, no more gambling. This is the first initiation. Then chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Very simple method. But one cannot practice these things without association of devotees. Nobody can do it outside. But here they are able; immediately they give up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You said that Jesus only gave shelter to his few followers, but Vāsudeva Datta prayed that the whole sinful activities of the whole universe...
Rāmeśvara: "Be on me, I'll take them."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said, I think it said, he was a thousand times greater. You wrote that in the purport.
Prabhupāda: Nature's law is not like that, that you suffer for me. No. I suffer for my. It is magnanimity that I'll suffer. Sometimes they do so, but actually nature's law is different. If you have committed theft, you will suffer; why I shall suffer? Even if I say in the court that "I'll go to jail," he'll not go. (break) ...city in the world except in America, such nice roads.
Prabhupāda: Yes, do it. You have got enough milk, you can do it.
Rāmeśvara: I was thinking yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that as our movement becomes greater and greater, then taking Kṛṣṇa prasādam at a restaurant or at our Sunday feast will be like a national pastime.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Everyone in the country.
Prabhupāda: And the Rathayātrā also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it will be like going to the ball game.
Prabhupāda: Rathayātrā, introduce in every city. You have already got some national holiday?
Rāmeśvara: ...or ignorance, then you're missing the reality of life and you're living in an illusion. Due to your senses you're living, you could live, be living in illusion. The senses are not perfect instruments for understanding reality. There is another process for understanding reality. The senses are not perfect. Therefore one should not depend upon the senses to understand reality. There is a greater process.
Richard: And how is that found?
Prabhupāda: You find out this verse: sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam.
Rāmeśvara: What's the second word, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Sukham ātyantikam.
Rāmeśvara: It's combined with some other verse. "The stage of perfection is called trance, or samādhi, when one's mind is completely restrained from material mental activities by practice of yoga. This is characterized by one's ability to see the self by the pure mind and to relish and rejoice in the self. In that joyous state one is situated in boundless transcendental happiness and enjoys himself through transcendental senses. Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks that there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position one is never shaken even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact."
Prabhupāda: That is translation?
Rāmeśvara: That is the translation.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Prabhupāda: And still we are living very comfortably.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Another proof is even when there are austerities, we do not mind to accept it because there is a higher pleasure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have greater pleasure, that this austerity will please Kṛṣṇa. So we must do it. Our aim is how to please Kṛṣṇa. That is our argument. Go on reading.
Jayādvaita: "On the other hand, there is the brāhmaṇa, or he who is intelligent enough to utilize this body to solve all the problems of life. The kṛpaṇas, or miserly persons, waste their time..."
Prabhupāda: The real problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. They do not understand this. They are so.... Just like animals. Animal does not understand what is birth, death, old age and disease. Real problem is there, but they are so dull-headed that their attention is diverted from the real problem. Temporary problems, they are busy. Just like, one major disease, one is suffering from a major disease. On account of that, he has sometimes headache, sometimes pain here, sometimes so many, minor. So, because we are subjected to meet death, so these minor conditions are there.
George Gullen: Yes, this is true. My father was a Christian minister all of his life, and he had very deep beliefs about the spiritual matters. He felt very strongly, as you do, that the body was temporary and that his spirit would find its way into some other form of life, and he believed very strongly in life after human death, very much so. He believed in a matter he called cosmic consciousness, in which the spirit had far greater powers than physical powers. He had similar kinds, I believe, of beliefs that you do. I have some beliefs myself that the human body being quite temporary, that years are not long for it, that there must be more to life than just the physical side.
Prabhupāda: Everyone's body is temporary, either human body or cat's body, dog's body. But the human body is important because in the human body we have developed consciousness by which we can understand what is God. The cats and dogs, they cannot, they haven't got that developed consciousness. Therefore if we do not use this developed consciousness for understanding God and our relationship with Him, then we are no better than cats and dogs. Cats and dogs cannot be educated about God, but a human being can be educated. That is the distinction between animals and man. But modern education is keeping them in ignorance about God, so they are no better than cats and dogs.
Prabhupāda: A man is poor when he's in ignorance.
Scheverman: So you see that as a greater poverty, is the ignorance, rather than the physical poverty of not having enough food.
Prabhupāda: So food problem can be solved simply by accepting.... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). How everyone can.... Find out.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "All living bodies subsist on food grains which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by the performance of sacrifice, and sacrifice is born of prescribed duties."
Prabhupāda: So if you produce enough food grains, both the man and the animal will live very peacefully. Food grains. And I've seen in your country, in America, in Africa, in Australia, so much vacant land without producing food grains. So men are not engaged to produce food grains, but they are brought in Detroit to manufacture of wheels of motorcar.
Prabhupāda: Serve Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: It says here that yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. One obtaining this actual service of Kṛṣṇa, when one tastes the service of Kṛṣṇa, then he sees any other gain, he does not consider anything else. "Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks there is no greater gain." So when you actually taste the service of Kṛṣṇa, then you won't consider anything else to be worthy of your effort. But when we do think something else to be worthy of our effort then it means that we haven't, we're not becoming advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We're not developed. We should try to develop to that point. We have to develop.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in that story, the cobbler actually was more advanced than the brāhmaṇa, and yet in Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa explains that "Anyone can approach Me, even the strī śūdra dvija bandhu," they can all approach the supreme destination. Then in the next verse he says "How much greater, then, are the brāhmaṇas, the righteous, the devotees, the saintly kings." I was wondering how are they greater?
Prabhupāda: You do not understand it?
Devotee (1): I do not understand how they are greater than the lower person who surrenders.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you have got your spiritual master and you, if somebody says that you can come into the..., any one of you can come in this car. So spiritual master goes, you also go. Does it mean that spiritual master is not greater than you? Do you think like that?
Prabhupāda: Not a great, the great power. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more greater power than Him. That is His position.
Guest (2): My point is, sometimes this, a difference comes in this thing. Suppose a man of other religion says, okay...
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not question of religion. It is a question of God. God is great. That is accepted by all religions. So if Kṛṣṇa is great, then He is God. Where is the argument?
Guest (2): Then they didn't come, just like you stated, that...
Prabhupāda: Then you have to study Kṛṣṇa, that where is the great, the only great. Then you'll understand. God is great, there is... No religion will differ in this connection. But if find that "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the greatest," then you have to accept. There is no other argument. So I'll take a little time go to shower. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees and guests offer obeisances)
Prabhupāda: And as soon as you say that you are equal or greater, then you are rascal. We must expose you, that you are a rascal. This is our business. Because we are servants of God. We cannot see anything blasphemy against God. That is not our business. We must chastise immediately.
Rūpānuga: In that way we can help the people in general.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually, that is the fact. If you are actually scientist, then prove that there is God. That is your success of education. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito... (SB 1.5.22). Your education has meaning when by your education, by your scientific knowledge, you'll prove that there is God, He is so glorified. Then you are welcome. Then you are really scientist. And if you become a rascal, then you say "Oh, there is no need of God. We are going to manufacture. Just wait for one million years." Is that good proposal, I have to wait for one million years to see your scientific research work? And we shall allow such fools to flourish? That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: All big, big buildings.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's New York. The population now of the greater New York area is eighteen million.
Prabhupāda: Eighteen million?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It was ten million.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it has very much increased now. That includes the outlying...
Prabhupāda: How it has increased?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it includes the outlying suburbs which have become very developed.
Rāmeśvara: Long Island, it includes Long Island.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so the scope is everywhere. What is your experience?
Devotee (4): India Prabhupāda, it was very, very large and I wrote him some letters, but the experience is even greater...
Prabhupāda: Oh! Mr. ... Come on. (guests come in) So Mrs. Kallman is going to become a sannyāsī, (indistinct). Gradually you have to become.
Mrs. Kallman: Must.
Prabhupāda: So if you feel uncomfortable you can sit on this.
Mr. Kallman: No, no. The cushion...
Prabhupāda: You are already accustomed
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are some. They are not all. Even they criticize that "You cannot see Kṛṣṇa." So similar argument can be, "You do not see Lenin. Why you are worshiping?" That's it. "Is Lenin present before you? So why you are worshiping?" You'll see. You have got, in Moscow got, every street corner a big picture.
Harikeśa: They're trying to replace everybody's desire to worship some greater authority.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, but if you or somebody argues, "Where is Lenin? You are.... Why you are worshiping? You cannot see Lenin..." Because they say, "Where is your Kṛṣṇa? You are worshiping a statue," so we can say the same thing, "Where is your Lenin? The statue, it is?" In the airport station, street crossing and everywhere there is picture. And they go to worship Lenin's tomb every day. Many other fools also go there, tourists, that Red Square. They tried in India for Jawaharlal Nehru's tomb, for Gandhi's tomb. So in the beginning there was little crowd. Now nobody goes. But Vṛndāvana, Govindaji's temple, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple? Without invitation-crowd. This is culture. (loud chanting begins in background)
Harikeśa: "Every man everywhere is trying to obtain the greatest amount of sense enjoyment by various endeavors. Some of them are busy engaged in trade, industry, economic development, political supremacy, etc., and some of them are engaged in fruitive work to become happy in the next life by attaining higher planets. It is said that in the moon the inhabitants are fit for greater sense enjoyment by drinking soma-rasa, and the Pitrloka is obtained by good charitable work. So there are various programs for sense enjoyment, either during this life or in the life after death."
Prabhupāda: Such a pleasing planet, and these rascals say there is no life. The moon is described everywhere, the most pleasing planet. Actually, when there is moon in the sky, how it is pleasing. So that planet is meant for the high-class pious persons, and they get their life for ten thousands of years. They live very comfortably, drink soma-rasa. These are the descriptions we get from śāstra. And these rascals say it is desert. And we have to believe them. And practically we see how pleasing it is. As soon as the moon planet is there, the whole atmosphere becomes pleasing. And it is desert. And we have to believe these rascal scientists and disregard the description of the śāstra. What do you think? Is that very good intelligence?
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are not human being, you are animal. If you cannot produce your food, uncivilized animals, they cannot produce their food. But you are given the chance of becoming human being, if you cannot produce your food, if you do not know how to cook food, how to offer it, then you are not human being. You are animal. When the uncivilized man in the jungle, they did not know how to produce food, they used to kill animals. So if you want to remain in the same uncivilized status of life, then where you are human being? You have got greater intelligence, you produce your food. Why should you kill animal like the uncivilized jungle men? Your action is just like jungle man, and you are claiming to be civilized man.
Nava-yauvana: They are thinking that they are the proprietor.
Prabhupāda: This is the only business, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then you gradually come to your original sense. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam (CC Antya 20.12). It is very easy thing. People will not take it. They want to see magic, they want to see jugglery, they want to hear all nonsense. This is the... If you talk nonsense, cheating them, they will like it. Satya bole tomāre lata yuta jagat bihar dana kali-yuga tuk lage anahaspar.(?) Kṛṣṇa is speaking, but... Personally? That is not good. They'll go to some rascal who can talk jugglery and show magic. Who can show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa? Who has done it? A seven-years-old boy lifting the mountain. That is mythology. When Kṛṣṇa shows something wonderful, that is mythology. Mythology, Vyāsadeva has written mythology. And big, big ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya and Madhvācārya, big, big, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have studied this mythology and given their comments.
Commissioner: And how can there be anything greater service to humanity than...
Prabhupāda: Here is the first thing, that brahma-bhūtaḥ, Brahman realization. Then prasannātmā. He is no more under the material tribulation or anxiety. We are in anxiety on account of our material conception of life. Prahlāda Mahārāja said sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have accepted this asat body, material body, which will not exist, and we are concentrating our attention only on this body, therefore we are always anxious. Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. On account of asat. So this is going on all over the world. Simply anxiety. They have created United Nations, but where is the United Nation? The people go there with anxiety, that's all. And come back again with anxiety. Because their asad-grahāt remains. The Indian is thinking, "I am Indian, this body." And the American is thinking, "I am American," and the Pakistani is thinking, "I am Pakistani." So asad-graha is there. So how the anxiety will go away? But they do not know this. There is no education. They want to keep him... "Feel always that you are Indian," "Feel always that you are American."
Akṣayānanda: So one question I wanted to ask you in this connection, is that this Vinobha, fasting until death, until cow slaughter is stopped. So if he dies then he is guilty of murder. Is it correct. And if he's a brāhmaṇa, he is guilty of brahma-hatya. So by this fasting he is committing a greater sin than the actual killing of the cows.
Prabhupāda: You are right.
Akṣayānanda: And what is the gain?
Prabhupāda: And what he'll get it? Does he think that by his dying of starvation this cow-killing will be stopped? That is his foolishness.
Akṣayānanda: He will die and it will go on.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is his foolishness.
Akṣayānanda: And he does not know where he will go next.
Prabhupāda: Just see, he is (Hindi), very big man, and he's such a rascal. He has no sense what he is doing.
Prabhupāda: That's all... But what is that great? What is God you do not know. We know. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more greater principle than Me. That is great. How you are great? Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). "I am the origin of all the demigods." Next how you are great? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). This is their ignorance. They have simply heard God is great, but how He is great, that they do not know. Here is the... God is personally speaking, "Yes, I am great in this way." Ahaṁ sarvasya. Vedānta says janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). That is greatness. The original source of everything. So we are presenting God, "Here is God." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ (SB 1.3.28). There are other incarnations, but kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That's a fact. So try to present the real fact. It will be effective. If there is real reality, just like first class pure ghee... If one tastes, he'll hanker after. Without any advertisement, by the taste of the ghee, it will go on. Is it not? If you put little pure ghee on the rice, it will be so tasteful, that he'll want it again.
Prabhupāda: So write that. (pause) This article, if it is presented, the whole case, it is lost...
Hari-śauri: Most of this magazine is... Somehow or other, in all the articles there's something about how the chanting is actually producing greater intelligence, clearing the mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Akṣayānanda: Books and devotees.
Prabhupāda: This issue is very important. There's so many evidences. (break) Who are present here...
Akṣayānanda: Who are present here.
Prabhupāda: This is the process of knowledge. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt (SB 11.17.27). If you go to ācārya, then you'll know the knowledge. What is this, go to a magician, a rascal? Magician is authority? There are so many magicians. So one should go for God to a magician? Ācāryopāsanam. Go to ācārya. That is recommended. Why should you go to the magician? That is your fault. You go to the wrong person, and you are cheated because you want to be cheated. You want to see magic; you don't want to see God. God is personally speaking, accepted God, not that by magical... And who can show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. Can this rascal do that? Who can be greater magician than Kṛṣṇa? So we shall go to the greatest magician. Why shall I go to a tiny magician?
Prabhupāda: Space. Space grows, Brahman. Bṛhatvād bṛhannatvāt.(?) Brahman means the greatest. The space is considered to be the greatest. So it is not only greatest but it is expanding more and more. It is becoming greater and greater. Just like some children. They made some foam, soap. It becomes bigger, bigger, bigger. It is like that. It comes from the breathing period but as soon as come out it becomes bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. That is bṛhatvād bṛhannatvāt, Brahman, the greatest. A small seed of banyan tree, very small, you cannot... It becomes bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, and so big tree. It is... You see daily how it is coming. Can you make such seed, you scientist? Can you make? Then? Why do you compare your poor knowledge with Kṛṣṇa's knowledge? That is your poor fund of knowledge. You are thinking that "Kṛṣṇa may be like me." You can just compare the small banyan tree seed, just like a mustard seed, and it contains such a big tree, not only big tree, millions of seeds also, containing another millions of big trees. Can you make such seed? Hm? You scientists, can you make? You tell me. Can you prepare that seed?
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say instead of collecting so many hundreds and thousands of literature on the Bhagavad-gītā, why not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is? What is the difficulty? Kurukṣetra is this position is fact. Mahābhārata, Mahābhārata means greater India. And that is, it is itihasa. It is called itihāsa. Itihāsa, if you don't believe that there was a battle in the Kurukṣetra... But that is the fact. It is the history. Then how you can finish (?) Bhagavad-Gītā? Every point of Bhagavad-gītā, it is clear. It is clear. There is no need of interpretation. That is the first thing. If you interpret you spoil the whole thing. Because interpretation is required when the things are not clear. If everything is clear, why should you interpret?
Guest: No, it is explanation I think.
Prabhupāda: Explanation, you cannot explain that Kurukṣetra means this, dharmakṣetra means this, Pāṇḍava means this. Why?
Dr. Patel: But one thing about Kali-yuga is that by doing small amount of good work or doing little bhakti, it has a greater amount of benefit than you would get otherwise in Satya-yuga, Dvāpara or Treta. Is it not, sir? No...
Prabhupāda: Good work or bad work, you have to enjoy, good or bad.
Dr. Patel: But in Kali-yuga a little bhakti will do much good than a good amount of tapaḥ in Satya-yuga, thousands or millions of years.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti is different. Bhakti is transcendental. It has nothing to do with this material world. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato. That is bhakti. And karma, if you do good, you'll get good result, and if you do bad, you'll get bad result.
Dr. Patel: But if you are attached to the karma... When a person is attached...
Prabhupāda: Śiśupāla was His cousin-brother.
Dr. Patel: Cousin-brother. (Sanskrit) If you consider that, He rose against all odds. Greater the opposition, better you become.
Prabhupāda: Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu (BG 9.29). God must be equal to everyone.
Dr. Patel: You are right. With that extreme faith, Jesus took to the cross. Huh? (break)
Prabhupāda: That is the greatness of the movement. (break)
Dr. Patel: We will be meeting with all people in the whole world. And you will be...
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the oldest.
Dr. Patel: (laughing) Keep in my hand and walk. And I would say, sir, that you also should not take bath in cold water.
Prabhupāda: Does it mean that before that, the Europeans were uncivilized?
Rāmeśvara: They were, actually considered themselves to be in the Dark Ages. They call it the Dark Ages. And then, all of a sudden, there was what they call the Renaissance, where man's intelligence became greater, expanded. He became interested in finer things.
Prabhupāda: Not man, but the Westerners.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, Westerners.
Prabhupāda: Intelligent stock was there in India,
Rāmeśvara: Yes. So it's very amazing that the period in Europe called the Renaissance coincides with the appearance of Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Fifteenth century.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: So it seems all over the world there was a greater interest in education, in art, and in India at the time when Lord Caitanya appeared.
Hari-śauri: The church was its strongest as well in Europe at that time, religion, very strong.
Prabhupāda: Christ also went, came to India.
Rāmeśvara: That is not believed in the West.
Prabhupāda: That is to keep their prestigious position.
Satsvarūpa: They don't have to pay all at once.
Hari-śauri: Most things are done in America are on credit.
Satsvarūpa: "Book of the Month Club," they have. Very popular.
Prabhupāda: So you... We have to organize like that. And actually this is greater valuable for their life, changing life.
Hari-śauri: Yes. These book clubs are very big.
Prabhupāda: So now you all GBC make a plan how to introduce the books in every home. The same policy in other languages also. America is English language. Similarly, we can do here also in Hindi language, in Oriya language, or in Europe. So we have got much work ahead. Don't think our business is finished. No. Simply very intelligent we have to do it.
Prabhupāda: Hm, hm, hm. Gargamuni may go and organize in Dacca. That will be a great service. He was speaking of going to Dacca. That will be greater service.
Satsvarūpa: I thought they were going mostly for the library work.
Prabhupāda: Whatever... No, he says there is possible, that Gauḍīya Maṭha. If in Pakistan, in Bangladesh, if he can organize one center, it will be great triumph.
Satsvarūpa: Dacca.
Prabhupāda: Kīrtana and prasādam distribution. This is our preaching mainly. And if they hear little philosophy, that is very good. Otherwise simply kīrtana and prasādam distribution is sufficient. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to do that. He was not speaking philosophy to everyone. Kīrtana and prasāda distribution. So our men can perform very nice kīrtana, and if they come to take little prasādam, that is preaching. You have to maintain this standard, that kīrtana must go on and prasādam should be distributed.
Prabhupāda: This is your advancement. (laughs) Every line of action you see, you have created greatest danger. No solution. Solution is not there, but you have created greater danger. That is your credit.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was very impressed. He can become life member. Very, very nice man. Very old. And he said his children are in United States and he has everything he has. He's very rich also.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you ask him to come? He's rich. Ask him to come, live with us in Māyāpura, and rest of the life let him become happy. Why he's after money?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: His aim is to make as many bridges as possible. He's thinks that's some sort of philanthropic work.
Prabhupāda: Who is cheating? They're cheating. Just see. They are working hard; they are cheating. And they, by taxation getting money and living very comfortable, they are not cheating.
Gargamuni: They are greater cheaters.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is Kali-yuga.
Tulasī dāsa has said, "In the Kali-yuga, dudha, milk—no customer. And surā, wine-baitale vikāra.(?) It is sitting down in one place, and customers are going there: "Give me. Give me one after another, one after..." Surā, wine, is so impure that it should not be touched. That is selling in one place very comfortably. Dudha? Gali gali phire: "Will you take milk? Will you take milk?" Dudha gali gali phire surā baitale vikāra, dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā. Kali-yuga dhanya tomāra.(?) "Your pastime..." Duḥkha lāge haspar, "I am very sorry, but at the same time, I am laughing." (laughs) "Although I am very sorry, but still, I am laughing." This is Kali-yuga.
Bhavānanda: Their philosophy is that everyone taken together forms Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is their philosophy, but everything taken together means that is a partial manifestation of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is still greater.
Bhavānanda: If Kṛṣṇa says that "Everything material and spiritual is coming from Me."
Prabhupāda:"Coming from Me." Therefore He is greater than both material...
Bhavānanda: Does that mean Kṛṣṇa is beyond even spiritual?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: But it will be powdered skim milk.
Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. It will be sold here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because you can use it in greater quantity, then it becomes thick again. Of course, it doesn't make it rich with butterfat.
Prabhupāda: India, practically everywhere is powdered milk. They are purchasing by barrels.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This will be a good exchange for books, perhaps.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Very good report. It is worth seeing, worth considering our... If we develop our farms in India on this basis, it will be very nice. We have got greater land. You have got 450 acres; we have got 600. No? Now it requires development.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mahāṁśa was calling for this because he said that by showing this... He wants to get a big grant of money.
Prabhupāda: They simply want money. That's all. Money will only be supplied. Let them show some work.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paramānanda may be able to come to help there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, to give them direction. It will be very nice. If Paramānanda comes, we can invest money without any hesitation. He has got experience.
Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. According to the translation. Not that he becomes a greater scholar than my Guru Mahārāja.
Rādhā-vallabha: I don't think that's possible.
Prabhupāda: Alpa-vidyā bhayaṅkare.(?) This is the Western countries' deficiency. They learn little, and they consider that he has become very learned scholar. This is the defect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a Professor Frog puffing up and then bursting.
Rādhā-vallabha: Nitāi burst.
Prabhupāda: Where he is now?
Rādhā-vallabha: I don't know. I heard that he was heading for America, then wanted to go back to India, some nonsense. I could find out if you want me to. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Without scientific knowledge the animals are also gratifying their senses. Why they take to the platform of education for sense gratification? What can be benefit? It doesn't require... Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Even the birds and beasts, they have got facilities for sense gratification. The pig, they have got very good facility for sense gratification—no distinction between mother, sister, or anyone. The pig has got greater facility. So why in the name of education?
Hari-śauri: Intellectual sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: What is that intellectual?
Girirāja: I think the idea is that if everything is just coming from matter and there's no God, then there's no rules and regulations to restrict the sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: In the history of India there is no woman leader. Throughout Mahābhārata you'll find... Mahābhārata is the greater history, history of greater India. Mahā means greater, and bhārata. So "Greater Bhārata." That means this whole planet. So you won't find woman leader
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are... Some letters have come from some prominent personalities. Here is one from Mr. S. P. Mondalia. Surya Prakash Mondalia. "Your Holiness..." It's from Industry House, Real(?) House. "Your Holiness, I was indeed happy to know from yesterday's newspapers that the suit filed against ISKCON has been decided in favor of ISKCON by the New York High-Court. Admittedly this is a clear vindication of the dharmic way of life chosen by ISKCON. I have great pleasure in extending my heartiest congratulations, and I hope that the ISKCON will progress from strength to strength in the service of the Lord. With respectful regards. Yours sincerely, Surya Prakash Mondalia."
Prabhupāda: So you like this place?
Guru dāsa: Oh, yes. This is fit for you almost. It should even be more greater.
Prabhupāda: I am unfit for anywhere. With great struggle we secured this place.
Guru dāsa: Actually, we have all struggled together for many years for so many things. And it is only by your grace that we were able to do it.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...Vṛndāvana affairs going?
Guru dāsa: Yes. I would just like to submit that I don't know what has been said, but my opinion about Akṣayānanda Swami is that he is a first-class devotee.
Prabhupāda: That I know. Therefore I am keeping him. He is not qualified manager, but he is first-class devotee, and he has no visa problem.
Prabhupāda: There are many things, and they are all subordinate. First of all you understand the body and the owner of the body. In the body there are so many things. Similarly, the owner of deha, greater number of things to know. First of all try to understand the beginning, that you are not this body. That is the fundamental understanding. Then you understand what is the composition of the body and what is the composition of the... The first knowledge is lacking, mistaken, that "I am this body." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). They are accepting this body as ātmā. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). We have written so many books, eighty-four books. And they are reading. In the Western world they are taking it.
Mr. Koshi: Yes, I was told.
Prabhupāda: Why imaginary? He is in the history, Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means greater, history of greater India.
Girirāja: Would you like a little more? (offering prasādam)
Ram Jethmalani: No thank you. I am trying to finish as much as I can.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Ram Jethmalani: One of the historical pieces of evidence is that if Rāmāyaṇa was historically earlier than Mahābhārata, it is curious that there is no reference in the Mahābhārata at all that any other gods of Rāmāyaṇa. And if it will be the other way around, there is no reference to...
Girirāja: But there is reference in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: About Rāmāyaṇa. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is reference of Rāmāyaṇa. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the last writing of Vyāsadeva.
Prabhupāda: You note it. We shall give stress. We can make caitanya-līlā, kṛṣṇa-līlā, like that. We have got everything.
Guest (2): If we include more Indians or associate for such type of people it will have a greater effect. When those people and the philosophy is Hare Kṛṣṇa, but...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Russia nobody knows that. In Russia, the local people, the people here are not famous in Russia. They are famous here in India.
Guest: As we have been understood, made to understand in Russia, India is represented by three persons: Nehru, Raj Kapoor, and Lata. That is wanted and propagated in all...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say that you have to take work from the head and from the leg, but head and leg different. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). That is science. If you want to take the work of head from the leg, that is foolishness. Head must remain head, leg must remain leg, but you take the work of leg for walking; you take the work of the brain for thinking. That is wanted. Evasive is no good. So anyway, our mission is that Indians especially, they should take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā—not by distorting the meaning. As it is. You cannot distort the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. Then you defy the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. You manufacture your own way. That is very bad. Then there is no authority. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). As Arjuna... "Whatever You say, I have accepted." That is the need, not that "I am very learned scholar; I can change the meaning." That is not good. You are not greater authority than Kṛṣṇa. Thinking like that is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa is authority. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have all accepted kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). How you can speak something else what, against what, the instruction of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: If you... If you think kuṭumbakam. Suppose some kuṭumba has come to your house. You ask him, "Go out"? This is our system. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptam. This is Indian culture. When you receive somebody at your home, even if he's your enemy-gṛhe śatrum api prāptam—you should treat with him in such a way that he'll forget that he's your enemy. Viśvastam akutobhayam. That was India's culture. Bhīma went to Jarāsandha to fight. Whole day it was fight. It was kṣatriya's fight. Unless one is dead, the fight will continue. So Bhīma and Jarāsandha were equally powerful, so no decision. But still, he was guest at Jarāsandha's house. At night they were eating together, talking together. This is India's culture. They forgot. Arjuna went to see in the battlefield to Duryodhana. And Duryodhana immediately said, "Come here, my brother. You have come. What do you want? How can I help you? You want your kingdom without fight? I can give you." He said, "No, no, that is not my business." This is kṣatriya. He... He thought that "He has come to beg." "No, no, that already... That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. But when he's at my place, I offer, "All right, if you want without fight, you can take." This is... They... This is India's culture. Ei sab mahābhārata hai, "History of Greater India." (Hindi) Apkara Gandhiji (Hindi) fiction hai.
Prabhupāda: Whether they'll be able to digest?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bitter. Bitter medicine.
Prabhupāda: Bitter pill.
Mr. Dwivedi: I think there is greater room for digestion of unadulterated Gītā than for adulterated.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Mr. Dwivedi: And automatically, I do not know why, but I think they will believe it.
Prabhupāda: No, they will not take it.
Mr. Dwivedi: They are... Already they are in a mood of...
Prabhupāda: No, that...
Prabhupāda: Yes, He has appeared, nāma-rūpe avatāra.
Indian man (5): So I think we are passing through a greater hell than what was...
Prabhupāda: No, no, the disease is there; the remedy is there. If you take the remedy, so there is no question of suffering from the disease. But you refuse to take the remedy. Just like this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Twelfth Canto. This Kali-yuga is the ocean of faults. Why should we lament for that? The remedy is there. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta... (SB 12.3.51). You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You'll become relieved immediately. So why don't you take the remedy? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. Why you are so much disturbed by māyā? Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So it is our choice. We do not do that, and we suffer. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra... Kṛṣṇa is giving personally. He has taken you, and we are not accepting. What can be done? The knowledge is there, the process is there, the authority is there, all the ācāryas, they have accepted, but we are so stubborn, we'll not accept. That is the difficulty. We'll manufacture our own ways. Yato mata tato patha. That is the difficulty. So it is past six. Have some kīrtana. (kīrtana begins) (end)
Prabhupāda: So do they accept?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, and some Indians are on our side, specially this Indian Student's Association, and also there is an association called Indian Association for Greater Boston. The president and the secretary came to me, and they are supporting us.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they're organizing these lectures, so we have a show on July 10th.
Prabhupāda: Make a great agitation. It will be done, if you work. (pause) A great challenge of the Bhaktivedanta Institute, for the whole world. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: And if required, one man can take care of more than one wife because woman population is greater.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. And some boys want to remain brahmacārī. So naturally there's fewer men for women.
Prabhupāda: And those who are able, you can keep more than one wife. Just see Kṛṣṇa-sixteen thousand wives. God. That is God. Come on, if there is anyone to compete. Sixteen thousand palaces, sixteen thousands wives, each wife, ten sons. That is God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one is equal to or greater than Him.
Prabhupāda: All queens are happy. Whatever she desires from husband... Satyabhāmā... And Kṛṣṇa went to the heaven and brought the pārijāta flower to satisfy. This is husband. Wife has asked for something: "All right."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He even had to fight.
Prabhupāda: Yes... So happiness, unless Kṛṣṇa gives, there is no question of happiness. Our business should be that we may not be uncomfortably living which will disturb our progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness—that much. Other things? Depend on Kṛṣṇa. If He wants to make you Indra, you become Indra. There is no happiness even by becoming Indra. You... We read from books. Indra is how much disturbed, always fighting, devāsura. He has to fight. The same thing as here. Only difference is the standard of living in the heaven and the duration of life are greater. But if you have to struggle for existence, then what is the use of this duration of life, greater? Simply struggling, where is happiness? So in different planets, in different species of life... I see at night these small bugs. They have got the same happiness. The husband and wife or the male and female together, jumping and having sex, and everything in a different body. And same thing is going on in higher planetary system.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. We are trying for that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's another one from the Head of the Department of Philosophy and Social Sciences in Madras. His name is Usair Mohammed Kasim. " 'Swami Prabhupāda's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is is a remarkable exposition of Vedānta philosophy. What impressed me most is its nonsectarian analysis and acceptability.' " He says its nonsectarian. Everyone would say... Most Hindus would say, "The Bhagavad-gītā is our book." But here is a Muslim saying it's nonsectarian. " 'Furthermore, this book I'm sure will inspire men of all faiths. The rendering is authentic and lucid. I am confident that this admirable classic will contribute to a greater understanding of Indian philosophical heritage.' " This book should be shown to these government men in Delhi, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This review. Usair Mohammed Kasim.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is recommending. All libraries.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " '...should have on its shelf these works.' " Next is a letter from Trinvak Govind Meinpark(?), Professor of Sanskrit and Head of the Department at the University of Bombay. " 'His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the renowned Vedic scholar and founder-ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, has translated into English the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the Encyclopedia of Vedic Culture.' " Now it's getting to be known like that. " 'The special feature of this publication is to be seen in the explanatory notes, added with a view to summing up the purport of the passages rendered. The Bhāgavatam is a classic of the Kṛṣṇa cult, and in the manner of sweetness, sincerity of devotion and purity of emotion, it surpasses all other texts of the Purāṇas, as well as other texts of the Bhāgavata religion. As such it is no wonder that it has become a veritable scripture of the devotees of this cult. Again, of all incarnations of the highest Lord, the Kṛṣṇa incarnation has a peculiar fascination for the Indian mind and has all along exercised a great influence over the Hindu religious mind—in fact, of all minds that have God consciousness. The Lord's grace, His interest and deep concern for His devotees and even for sinners, His great love for all beings without any distinction of order, caste, creed, and sex, His ever-willingness to look after all ardent devotees, His extreme sweetness, all these qualities have made Him the most easily lovable of the divine manifestations. The text of the Bhāgavata, scenes of the whole life of the Lord from His childhood to His withdrawal from the world, yet the philosophical aspects receive greater emphasis than the historical ones.'
Prabhupāda: Rascal, you are simply producing empty sound. Where is the chicken? Rascal. The chicken, the hen, is greater scientist than you. (S)he'll produced another egg within a week. You simply "This, that, this, that, this, that," that's all. "Left, right, that way." What is your value? We don't give you value. Less important than the chicken.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) He says, "We have created over ten elements that even God..."
Prabhupāda: Who cares for your creation? Without your creation the egg is there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he says, "Even God could not create them, because He did not know the technology involved in making them."
Prabhupāda: God kicks on your mouth. He doesn't require to take your creation. Without your creation He can do everything. God kicks on your mouth with shoes, talkative nonsense. Tell him like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm sure Haṁsadūta did. Next we'll read his... He says, "Are these two men aware of the success of Shree Lankan scientist Dr. Cyril..."
Prabhupāda: Who cares for this scientist?
Prabhupāda: Go on. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...no greater honor than to be called your son, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Where is that Dr. Sharma?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Sharma. Oh, yes. Where is he? He's here. Did that milk give you any mucus, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good.
Prabhupāda: It is very, very good.
Prabhupāda: Very good idea. If I die then, it will be a great luck.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if you live it will be also great luck.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīvo vā māro vā.
Trivikrama: For us it will be greater luck if you live.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I want also. What is that?
Bhavānanda: He was trying... The... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...parikrama was liven to them. Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Trivikrama: This parikrama is very enthusiastic.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we have to go soon, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Actually, to take you to different places is the greatest ecstasy, because there's no greater pleasure the devotees have than when you first arrive, they see you. Their feelings know no bounds. Airport arrivals have always been ecstatic over the years, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The newspapers always remark how ecstatic they are.
Prabhupāda: What is the condition of the road?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This road is hopeless. We have to find an alternate way.
Bhakti-caru: How about going from Mathurā to Delhi by train?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning you were asking for Bharadvāja? Here he is. We thought of a better way to go, Śrīla Prabhupāda, than car. We'll take the Taj Express from Mathurā to Delhi. It's quite a nice train ride. It takes only one hour and forty-five minutes, and it doesn't even stop one time.
| Page Title: | Greater (Conversations 1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 09 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=63, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 63 |