Prabhupāda: Formerly the kings and governors, they used to take bath in the Ganges with their paraphernalia, band party and many brāhmaṇas and all kinds of charitable things. In this way they used to come to take bath. So Lord Caitanya saw that somebody is coming in that great procession, and He was told about Rāmānanda Rāya, the governor of Madras province. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya requested Him that "You are going to South India. You must meet Rāmānanda Rāya. He's a great devotee." So when He was sitting on the bank of the Kaveri and Rāmānanda Rāya was coming in procession, He understood that he is Rāmānanda Rāya. But because He was sannyāsī, He did not address him. But Rāmānanda Rāya, he was a great devotee, and saw a nice sannyāsī, young sannyāsī was sitting and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Generally, the sannyāsīs they do not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. They, "Oṁ, oṁ..." Simply sound oṁ. Not Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Governor (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But he was devotee, but undoubtedly, but outwardly he was a governor. Outwardly. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not go him, but he understood that "Here is a nice sannyāsī." He came down and offered his respect and sat down before Him. And there was acquaintances, and Lord Caitanya said that "Bhaṭṭācārya has already informed Me about you. You are a great devotee. So I have come to see you." And then he replied, "Well, what devotee? I am a pound-shilling man, politician. But Bhaṭṭācārya is very kind to me that he has asked Your Holiness to see me. So if You have come, so kindly, kindly deliver me from this material māyā." So there was appointment of time with Rāmānanda Rāya and both of them met again in the evening and there was discussion about, I mean to say, spiritual advancement of life. Lord Caitanya inquired from him and Rāmānanda Rāya replied. Of course, that's a long story, how He questioned and how he replied.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate. This is from Upaniṣad. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki-jnana-bala-kriya ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). It is said that nobody is seeing... This is called research. You are accepting any nonsense as God, and they do not have any information from the..., that God means na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate: "God has nothing to do, no responsibility. Nobody is found greater than Him." So if this Vedic injunction is followed, if somebody is claiming, "I am God," we have to see whether he has nothing to do and whether nobody is greater than him. And these two tests will make him false immediately. He has to prove that nobody is greater than... Even contemporary... Suppose I am claiming I am God. So I have to show that at the present moment, throughout the whole world, apart from universe, nobody is greater than me. Then I am... Will these pretenders be able to show that nobody is greater than him? This is a simple test. And na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate: "And he has nothing to do." There are so many things to test who is God. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. Nobody shall be richer than him; nobody shall be stronger than him; nobody shall be wiser than him; nobody shall be beautiful than him. So these things have to be tested, whether he is God. And simply if I claim, "Oh, I am God," there will... No testament? If I say, "I am President Nixon," will you accept it? If you don't accept it, even an ordinary President Nixon, without testing his credentials, how you will accept a false man as God without testing? You must know what is that test. Credential. He must present credential. Just like when some ambassador comes to a foreign country, there is a ceremony that that ambassador must be recognized by the governor or the governor-general in that state, and he has to place his credentials, similarly, anybody is claiming as God, he has to place his credentials. And what is that credential? The test is there in the Upaniṣad, in the Bhagavad-gītā and so many, all literatures, Brahma-saṁhitā, Vedānta-sūtra, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam first it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). Svarāṭ, svarāṭ means fully independent. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. The Supreme Truth, fully independent. We are not fully independent. And just now, if I feel a little toothache, I will have to go to a doctor. So how can I claim that I am God? God's first qualification is fully independent, svarāṭ. Abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means fully cognizant of everything.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): On the first day of this inauguration, and there were definitions about karma-yoga.
Prabhupāda: Oh, the governor. (laughter) Just see. He is speaking of karma-yoga. Slaughtering ten thousand cows, that is karma-yoga. This nonsense speaking of karma-yoga.
Guest (1): So actually I shall present...
Prabhupāda: The governor became little perturbed. He wanted to go immediately. You were present? And when the other men began to speak all hodgepodge...
Guest (1): I like your one sentence that day. Whatever is according to the śāstras, that is correct. I agree to it. Nobody says that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact.
Guest (1): That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Karma done does not mean that you manufacture something and it becomes a karma.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Great and famous place. Looked after...
Prabhupāda: Where you are governor also.
Guest: Looked after very badly. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Lalaji was governor in West Bengal.
Guest: How you have... Yes. I was called governor for some time there. I liked the place when I was there. They were all very kind. They had settled down after a lot of rioting and, and (indistinct), and all that, they had settled down.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Rāmānanda Rāya?
Sumati Morarjee: Ah, Rāmānanda Rāya.
Prabhupāda: He was governor.
Sumati Morarjee: And Ācārya?
Prabhupāda: Yeah, Bhaṭṭa, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya.
Sumati Morarjee: Hm.
Prabhupāda: You have read in my books, Teachings of Lord Caitanya?
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, also Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Caitanya's life, and all that, it is written by (indistinct) brahmacārī.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hm. I was also a student of missionary college, Scottish Churches' College.
Lord Brockway: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We had very good professors. W. S. Urquhart, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was a Scotsman.
Lord Brockway: Yes, yes. Was that in Calcutta?
Prabhupāda: Yes, in Calcutta. And Lord Rolandson, Zetland, Marquis of Zetland. He was governor of Bengal. So he's also a Scotsman.
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So he came to our college in our, when we were young men, second year student. All our professors, mostly they were Scotsmen, and there was one English professor, Mister Warren. All other professors, they were Scotsmen, Mr. Keye, Mr. Cameron, Mr. Scrimgeour in this way.
Lord Brockway: Those are Scottish names.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Scottish names. So you remained only four years after your birth.
Prabhupāda: This is due to government post.
Guest (1): And he also accepted an invitation, we invited him, He said he'd also come, but this Pakistan war started.
Prabhupāda: Still there are so many respectable person came. The governor came, the high-court justices and that, the Canadian ambassador came. Many men came. And he was very humble. He sat down below.
Guest (1): You didn't see the high commissioner there. He sat down.
Prabhupāda: He's also a very nice man.
Guest (1): Maybe some pious activities that they have.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): But this is their duty to respect.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...in this planet. In order to be elevated to the kingdom of God, they cannot go directly from the heavenly planet. They'll have to come here.
Umāpati: I just know when I close my eyes, it's dark.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...of the same quality, then what is the necessity of another God? It is a conclusion like this, that in the hospital everyone is patient. Therefore doctor is also patient because he's in the hospital. In the prisonhouse they're all prisoners. Therefore the superintendent of police he is also prisoner. Or the governor comes to see, visit, he is also prisoner. It is conclusion like that. God means He has got a special potency that He exists without any cause. Sva-rāṭ. This word is used in Bhāgavatam, sva-rāṭ: "completely independent." Who is that rascal, Bernard Russell? He is a well...
Yaśomatīnandana: Bertrand Russell. Yeah, British philosopher. He died probably. He died long time ago?
Umāpati: He is very fashionable. He was leader of anti-war demonstrators, and he was very man-conscious, thinking that man could solve all his problems.
Prabhupāda: But he could not solve his own problems. He died. So was he a man or dog? (break)
Yaśomatīnandana: ...philosophy. Because this whole world is made of asses, therefore asses' philosophy is given so much importance, donkeys.
Prajāpati: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya (end)
Karandhara: So they say, "Well, we cannot see God." But they could not see the people in those past days either.
Prabhupāda: No. You cannot see the government, but when things are going nicely, you must accept, there is government. That is... When things are going on very nicely, regularly, the sun is rising regularly, the moon is rising regularly, the seasons are changing and the waves are flowing, everything, then you have to accept that there is government. And as we have got experience here in this material world... Government is impersonal, but that at the end there is a president. Similarly, the whole government, the complete government, may be impersonal in the beginning, but at the end there is a person, that Supreme Person, Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Yes. Paramātmā is representative of God. Just like the president has got so many representative governors, similarly, Paramātmā is the localized representative of God, and God is person, and the whole government is impersonal. This is the conception. When we say "government," you cannot localize that "Who is that person, government?" That is impersonal. But when we find governor, then localized persons. And then above them, all of them, when there is president, he is supreme person. This is our practical example. Similarly, nature is working impersonally, but there are officers. They are called demigods. And above them all there is the Supreme Lord. He is Bhagavān. And this idea wherefrom has come? The president, the governors, and the government. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). It has come from there. Because of the origin, the same thing is there.
Prabhupāda: Spanish book?
Jagajjīvana: All types of books. Had some nice pictures. In the article there is a picture of us giving books to the governor of Puerto Rico. (break)
Prabhupāda: So we have got books in Spanish now? Which book?
Jagajjīvana: We have the...
Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.
Jagajjīvana: Yeah, we haven't gotten that yet, though. There is the Perfection of Yoga, Topmost Yoga, and the Back to Godhead.
Hṛdayānanda: Easy Journey to Other Planets.
Jagajjīvana: Yeah, but I don't have that. I have some copies but not a lot.
Hṛdayānanda: Also On Chanting.
Jagajjīvana: Yeah, there is a chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, Second chapter is done. It hasn't been distributed yet until February. We are two blocks away from a college. It has 32,000 students, and we go there every day and chant and the Communists come and we start preaching to them.
Prabhupāda: Communists? Students are under Communistic? What the Communists preaches? There is no God?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bhavānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, so do it. (break) ...bhakti's, as I explained, apratihatā. Any condition, bhakti can be executed. The example is given: Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī and Rāmānanda Rāya. Rāmānanda Rāya was gṛhastha and governor, and he was very comfortably situated. And Rūpa Gosvāmī was living underneath a tree every night. And both of them were equally... Rather, Rāmānanda Rāya was accepted in greater position than Rūpa Gosvāmī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in renounced order of life, but He gave even better position to Rāmānanda Rāya than Rūpa Gosvāmī. And Rāmānanda Rāya was a gṛhastha. He was not even a brāhmaṇa. And governor, very opulent. Very comfortable situation. You know this?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So how Caitanya Mahāprabhu treated them equally or gave better position to Rāmānanda Rāya than Rūpa Gosvāmī? This question was raised—not only now—when our Guru Mahārāja started Gauḍīya Maṭha. So he was allowing the sannyāsīs to live in palatial building and go in car for preaching work. So many such persons questioned, "How is that, sannyāsīs are going in car, living in palatial building?" So our Guru Mahārāja replied that "A devotee should be offered the best comfort of life. And if he would not have introduced this comfortable life, at the same time, to become pure devotee, then these devotees from Western countries will, would never come. They would never agree to sit down under the tree and, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī... That is not possible." Do you understand or not?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is (indistinct) fifty lakhs, twenty-five, that is beyond us. We can spare up to two lakhs, that's all. (break) ... be able to manage. (break) ...people.
Gurudāsa: Yes. The Britishers.
Prabhupāda: Britishers, they train. Just like in India, they trained. They were on the head of the administration. The Viceroy, the governor, the secretaries, the military commander, they are all Englishmen. All other, Indians. Therefore Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. That these people are ruling over us by our cooperation.
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So non-cooperate with them, they will fail. And that was successful. He started non-cooperation movement, that "Don't cooperate with these Britishers," and when they saw there is now full non-cooperation, they left voluntarily. It is not possible to bring so many administrators, military strength, men, men too. Actually the British empire was expanded through the help of Indians.
Dr. Patel: Jamadagni, the Paraśurāma's son. Jamadagna is Paraśurāma, the father.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...being done in America because it is not to be done here. Here religion has become fanaticism and political degradation. It is not possible. Now see in our political paper how they are seriously doing and people taking seriously. Whatever program I give them, they are systematically doing. Here there is no assistance. (break) ...cry, "Oh, we are in, put in this condition, put in this..." Complain. But what is the remedy, we do not take. That is India's position. Mr. Kanunda(?), he's the son of late governor of Gujarat(?). He came to offer me a land in Bhuvaneśvara. So he said... He's the manager of the coal organization.
Dr. Patel: Coal Corporation of India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He's the general manager. He told me that "Workers, they are not working. Therefore we have to increase price." Now, when the, it was private concern, they were managing. They were working very nicely. Now, since it has become government concern, they are not working.
Dr. Patel: Same thing in...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Well, I... That is the process of India to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. Every Indian has got initial propensity, but actually Gandhi did not know anything about spiritual science. He was politician, that's all. That one Bengal governor, he was from Australia, Mr. Keziar (?). So he, I remember. "Gandhi is a politician amongst the saintly person or a saintly person amongst the politicians." This study was made. His moral principle, character, is very good. That is to be taken by the politicians. But so far his spiritual knowledge is concerned, that is nil.
Prof. Regamay: But nonviolence is not well in every case?
Prabhupāda: No, nonviolence... Actually that is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā. What do you mean by nonviolence. Because you are not this body. Suppose if I tear away your coat, does it mean that you are killed? So those who are in the bodily concept of life, "I am this body," for them, this kind of fighting or killing is violence. It is violence. But the thing is, there is sometimes necessity. Just like every state maintains the military force, the police force. What is this? The violence department. Required. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). Suppose you are attacked by some rogue, and if somebody comes and kills him, there is a necessity. It is natural. If you say that time nonviolence, it is foolishness. It is foolishness. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are rogues and, I mean to say, culprit, criminal, they should be killed. They should be stopped by violence. So violence is required sometimes. Violence is not bad, but it is not to be used ordinarily.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Near Park St., Camac St.
Professor La Combe: Camac St. I know.
Devotee: Very nice, old... It was called the Ray Castle. It used to be occupied by some governors. (Someone gives the professor some prasādam.)
Professor La Combe: Thank you very much. Just a little.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, during that time of the Naxalites you had mentioned that after that program, you said due to the effects of our program, it stopped all that Naxalite movement. Because very shortly after we had that pandal in the Maidan, the whole Naxalite movement was finished. You said due to that, because we purified the atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
Devotee: ...with chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. The government could do nothing. The police were helpless.
Professor La Combe: And the festival in Sydney will take a long time?
Yogeśvara: Sydney festival is for how many days?
Prabhupāda: On the 29th.
Prabhupāda: I am going to India. (indistinct) Lord Caitanya's birth anniversary and open our Vṛndāvana temple. In Bombay we have got very nice land purchased and the government will not give us sanction for the temple.
Guest: Hm!
Prabhupāda: (barely audible) (indistinct) through another friend (indistinct). The governor was (indistinct). He's my friend, I requested him, "You request the government to give us sanction." So he is very ardently pressing, explaining the whole thing about my position that he is member of this movement and still (indistinct). He has said no, but (indistinct)
Guest: You know when I had Mr. Trudeau, our prime minister, visit India in '71, first place I took him was at Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Guest: Our prime minister...
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Professor Durckheim: Yes. One who takes lead, yes, sure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if for a small government, three bighās of land, you require a personal governor, and such a huge government, millions and millions of universes, how the governor, the Supreme Person, supreme executive, shall not be a person? What is the reason? Actually, at the present moment, people have given up to understand the science of God. That is the defect. They are thinking everything here. Here is advertisement, "Everything here. Come on. Here is a bottle. Here is the pack (peg?). Come on." Everything here. That is the defect. And we are preaching, "Everything is not there." "Everything is lost there," we are preaching. No intoxication. And the material world is preaching, "Everything is there." This is the difference. We are preaching, "Everything is here in Kṛṣṇa, in God." We have... There is a tendency here. Just see. They want to worship Deity. Even on the street side there is such thing. The tendency is to worship Deity, person. I have seen in Rome. In many small lanes, they have got this, yes. Personal worship. So the village men, they are all sleeping now?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. They have got bad experience from this so-called Christian religion, and they have no information that there is need of religion. Therefore they want to abolish. Everyone has got bad experience, and they are a little forward, that "Finish it." That's it.
Rāmeśvara: They say that the problems of the world are so great that unless people have allegiance to one world government, they will not be able to be solved.
Prabhupāda: That we say, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme governor...
Rāmeśvara: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: ...and take shelter of Him. Then everything will be solved. That we are preaching.
Rāmeśvara: They have missed that point.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya. "Only master is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is servant." Accept this principle and everything will be all right immediately. Immediately. If you study the whole Bhagavad-gītā, where is any word there which you can refute or which is not good for you? Study whole Bhagavad-gītā. All practical and very congenial for human civilization. Kṛṣṇa teaches from the very beginning, "First of all learn what you are. You are not this body. You are within this body." Now, who knows this? This is the first study. As soon as you understand that "I am not this body, I am within this body," immediate you understand what is spirit. Then your spiritual knowledge advances further. But these rascals, they do not know what is spirit, what is spiritual knowledge.
Prabhupāda: And we have come out victorious.
Brahmānanda: Yes. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So much obstacle, still going on. Now the governor is cornered.
Brahmānanda: The governor of Maharastra.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Bombay. If he says yes, that is also dangerous; if he says no, that is also dangerous. (break)
Brahmānanda: We do not really understand how demoniac, how calculating, our leaders are.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Brahmānanda: We have the impression, because we are taught from the very beginning in the schools, that the leaders are to be worshiped, that their birthdays are to be celebrated...
Prabhupāda: Where you are going?
Śrutakīrti: He's going to pick up that lawyer.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: He was a good gentleman, that's all. He had no spiritual asset.
Ambassador: That's what I wondered. I never met him. I don't know. But he said himself, "I may be a saint among politicians, but I'm a politician among saints." (laughs)
Prabhupāda: He said or the governor said? Anyway, it is... Mr. Casey from Australia—he was governor of Bengal—he said, I think, that thing. His study was like that. He was a politician, that's all.
Ambassador: But God uses whatever material is there and He used him.
Prabhupāda: No, it was God's desire. You see? Without His desire, otherwise how such a vast British power could be driven away by the noncooperation movement? Of course, it was very nicely planned because the Britishers were ruling over India by the cooperation of the Indian.
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So when that cooperation was withdrawn, naturally they could not... They were trying to the last point, but when the Subhas Bose's organization, INA... You have studied that Indian history. Yes. INA. Indian National Army. So this National Army was formed by Subhas Candra Bose outside India with the cooperation of Hitler and Tojo. He's formed that, what is called, Indian government outside India, the INA, the soldiers... The INA soldiers means all the soldiers that were arrested in the battlefield, they were given to Subhas Candra Bose, either by the Japanese or by the Germans. So the soldiers took this opportunity; they voluntarily surrendered to the enemy. So when the Britishers understood that the soldiers, Indian soldiers, are now noncooperating, then they decided, "No, no more. It is not possible." So they voluntarily withdrew, that Sir Sirpiting(?) Lawrence, the secretary of state for India. Then they voluntarily settled up. And they settled up means the last parting kick was partition-Pakistan and India. And they partitioned in such a way that these two people will fight everlong. That is going on.
Prabhupāda: I am going to India. We have to hold the Lord Caitanya's birthday anniversary. And open our Vṛndāvana temple. In Bombay we have got very nice land purchased, and the government will not give us sanction for the temple. The... I approached the Maharastra governor through another friend governor. The governor of Uttar Pradesh, he is my friend. So I explained to him, "This this is the position. You request the governor to give me sanction." So he has very ardently requested, explaining the whole thing about my position, my... He is member of this movement, and still, he is neglecting. He has said no. Yet... But no answer.
Ambassador: You know, when I had Mr. Trudeau, our prime minister, visiting India in '71, first place I took him was Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Ambassador: Our prime minister of Canada, Mr. Trudeau.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Theosophy and theology is practically the same.
Prajāpati: No, theosophy is nonsense Buddhist...
Prabhupāda: But according to academic order, logic is the preliminary study of philosophy. Our, our professor, Dr. Watt (?), he defined like that. In 1917...-(Aside:) Come on.-There was the governor in Bengal, Lord Ronaldsey (?), Marquis of Zetland. He was a Scottish man. And our college was Scottish Churches College-(aside:) Get the light. So... don't lean. You'll feel sleep. Just like sit my Guru Mahārāja. Show the picture. Be... Become my Guru Mahārāja. Yes. That sitting is the yogāsana. I am gone to hell. (laughter) You are young men. You learn from my Guru Mahārāja.
Pañcadraviḍa: No leaning.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Pañcadraviḍa: No leaning.
Prabhupāda: No. You'll never see any picture, he was leaning. So that Lord Ronaldsey (?) was very good scholar. So we were... When he was invited, he was taken to all the classes. So I was, at that time, in the second year. So I took permission to sit down in the first benches. The... Our college was very big. So in each class there were 150 students.
Prabhupāda: Unless you become divine, how you can convert others to divine? If you are devil, you will convert others to become devil, that's all. (break) ...most beautiful.
Nalinī-kānta:. Presided over by Aryama, the planet of trees.
Prabhupāda: Planet... not planet. Amongst the trees. So who will prepare nice foodstuff for the governor?
Guest (1): Yes, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, very nice prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Who is preparing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've given the list to the chief cook.
Guest (1): My wife is there and then Pālikā, Devaśakti, your sister. Everybody is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it very nicely. Now it will be examined who can cook very nice. If they say, "Oh, it is very nice," then good certificate.
Guest (1): Prabhupāda, everybody is praising prasādam.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Everybody praising. Now the governor should praise. Then it will be praising. We can praise ourself, mutual praising society. You are very good, and you say I am very good, that's all. "Mr. Such and such is very good," and another man says, "Mr. Such and such very good." That is mutual praising society. Others must praise. Outsider must praise.
Brahmānanda: I think the governor was asking about the varṇāśrama college.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Varnāśrama college, that training factual brāhmaṇa. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a brāhmaṇa, he must act as a brāhmaṇa. If one is proclaiming as a kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Otherwise, there will be no restriction, and a śūdra will claim to be brāhmaṇa. That will create a disturbing situation. In Pṛthu Mahārāja's time it was strictly prohibited that... That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ. So if one is claiming to be brāhmaṇa he must be brāhmaṇa. That is another way of reforming the society. And nowadays everyone is a śūdra, and somebody is claiming, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." Formerly the brāhmaṇas (were) strictly following. They would not accept... In the śāstras it is said that the brāhmaṇa in bad time may become a kṣatriya. Just like Dronācārya. He was brāhmaṇa, but he became a kṣatriya for certain reason, and acting like kṣatriya, although he was respected as brāhmaṇa, but he was acting as a kṣatriya. So it is advised that brāhmaṇa may take the profession of a kṣatriya and up to the vaiśya. But if he takes the profession of a śūdra, then he is fallen. Then he is fallen. So this cultural institution should now be introduced. And the other countries, they are still respectful to the Indian culture. That's a fact. I have studied. So if we keep ourself in our, what he has mentioned, samsriti?
Prabhupāda: No, not here. In the sky. There is sweet water, very sweet, nice water, drinking water, sea. Sea of ghee, sea of yogurt, sea of milk. Everything is there.
Madhudviṣa: There is a government house. Simply a monument now.
Prabhupāda: The governor lives there?
Madhudviṣa: Yes. They still let them fly the flag, the British flag.
Prabhupāda: British flag?
Madhudviṣa: They still let them fly the British flag on top of the house.
Prabhupāda: They have disconnected the British?
Madhudviṣa: Yes, but there is some traditional respect. (break) When you were speaking with the priest yesterday, he was saying the chanting is material because it comes out of the mouth and it's made like a material sound vibration. Would it be possible for them to run scientific tests on the chanting, the sound of Hare Kṛṣṇa, to make a distinction between that sound and let's say the sound of an automobile's horn? Would that be perceptible?
Prabhupāda: No, the same sound. Sound is the same; when you are impure, this is material. Just like the tongue is the same, but when you are suffering from jaundice, you are tasting sugar as bitter, and when you will be cured, then the same tongue will taste it is sweet. So it depends on the purification of the body. Whole this bhakti-yoga or any yoga, the whole system is purification. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). Our existence is now impure. Therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age, and disease. And when it is purified, without any contamination, then there is no birth, death, old age. In diseased condition you cannot relish. Even if you are given actually rasagullā you will not taste it very nice. If there is no appetite, even it is rasagullā, it is useless. Spiritual life means curing the contamination of material disease. That is spiritual life. And when you are purified, you relish the spiritual taste.
Brahmānanda: Tagore?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tagore also got his position because he got the Nobel Prize from western world. Therefore he was so much obliged. All the big, big men, governors, etcetera, he would invite at his home. He was rich man, zamindar. Not very rich but a descendant of rich. (break) ...became so enamored by the western people that there is a song, yo kūṭeko baralad galikiya uska tengri laya uṣka mutton chop bānāiya: "A dog, because he is killed by the governor, so we have made mutton chop out of it. Take it." (laughter) The dog became so exalted because he was killed by the viceroy." This is their philosophy.
Indian guest: Rabindranath Tagore and all these big people, they were not pure devotees, but...
Prabhupāda: They're big lions, that's all. And they are praised by the small cats and dogs. (laughter) (break) ...Rabindranath Tagore's Gitanjali he indirectly praises, "I love you," but he does not mention whom he loves. He does not know who is the lovable object. You have read his Gitanjali?
Indian guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Governor...
Lalitā: U.P.
Prabhupāda: U.P. (Bengali) They must understand the philosophy. So is that all right? So make it.
Lalitā: (Bengali)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can go down.
Prabhupāda: Give her prasāda.
Jayapatāka: In case they want to see what type of..., how we like to develop in the village scheme, should I keep the Māyāpur program ready?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no other way.
Indian man (2): Gandhi was a politician.
Dr. Patel: He was not a politician. He was more a bhakta than a politician. He fell in politics. He was a saintly man turned into a politician. He was more a saintly man than a politician. He failed in politics. I have seen it.
Prabhupāda: No, he was studied by the governor of Bengal that "Either Gandhi is a saintly man amongst the politicians or he is a politician among the saintly persons." (laughter)
Dr. Patel: These people have not been able to understand Gandhi's intentions. It is the misfortune of this country they have not been able to carry out his message. Other people are able to carry out his messages. Other people of the world are able to understand him well, but we people are fools not to understand him. No. His socio-economic condition..., I mean, program. His program for lifting the society... You are religious head. He was a sort of a, another man, but in his own spirit he was doing a good work.
Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that Bhagavad-gītā begins to distinguish the soul...
Dr. Patel: From the body.
Prabhupāda: And the body. But Gandhi has never said anywhere.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're what, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Prized post only. Governors, the embassies, this is... These are invented to satisfy the agitators, politicians, because the opposite party will agitate.
Brahmānanda: So give them some house and some post.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Give them some. That's all. It has no use. They do not do anything. Simply hold that post and get nice house, nice salary, servants, honor, and sometimes they are called and make some speech. That's all. And whatever nonsense he may be, if he is governor, then everyone will respect him. That's all. And as soon as the same man is not governor, nobody goes to kick on his face. I have seen so many governors. When they retire, nobody... (aside:) Where is that cap? Nobody cares.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is this desire for material happiness the cause of material attachment?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. When they forget to serve Kṛṣṇa and wants to enjoy this material world... Don't you see that these Māyāvādī philosophers are trying for liberation, and still, they are expecting to become God. That is another desire. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. The high ambition, to become God or equal to God, that is going on, struggle for existence.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I didn’t know that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they brought tea from India and other places and sell it in America. Their whole policy was they exploit the whole world and bring money in London. That's all. And one who will do that, he will be honored by the state, given Earl of some small village. It has no value. Earl of this whole…, this man…, place, Lord of this. (laughter) A few acres of land and he is Lord of Chelmsford. And they will be given big, big post, governor, viceroy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did Nehru, though… He was so closely associated with Gandhi, and Gandhi was for getting the foreign products out. Why did Nehru go so much against that policy? Why did Nehru?
Prabhupāda: No, Nehru, he was searching after some big post. That's all. All these political agitators, they want the big post, that's all. You give them big post, and they will be satisfied. They will no more agitate. Political agitators means they want some prize post from the government. That's all. Make them some minister, and they will be no more agitator.
Bhāgavata: So we will make a very nice book display. I will see that there is a very nice book display made with the Caitanya-caritamṛtas and the Bhāgavatams displayed. (break) ...the governor of Bengal, and he was quite congenial. He was friendly. And he agreed that if we contact him and make the proper arrangements he might come and see you there when you come to Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Bhāgavata: I was thinking if we had him for the festival, to come to the festival, that would be a very prestigious...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why don't you arrange for that? You have to arrange. Yes. (break) ...king. Their constitution, first word is "the king can do no wrong." Yes, that is the Vedic system. Suppose a king beheads somebody by his own sword, as it was being done. Nobody can charge him that "Without any trial he has killed this man." No. Whatever is done... Just like we take Kṛṣṇa, apāpa viddham. Kṛṣṇa is never touched with any sinful activities. Apāpa-viddham. Tejiyasam na doṣaya (SB 10.33.29). Just as the sun, because it is very, very powerful, nothing can infect it. These are the dangers. (Hindi?) Of course, if you want to keep one in very exalted post, at the same time, if you want to find fault with him, then that is not good. That is not good. That is also stated, that arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. If somebody thinks that the Deity is made of stone and he criticizes, that is not allowed. If one thinks spiritual master as ordinary human being, that is not allowed. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. So those who are in highly exalted post of the state, you cannot find out fault with him. That is real Vedic way.
Mahāṁsa: Yes, Prabhupāda. I just came from Bangalore last night. They are having a very big program there and a lot of publicity from the newspapers with pictures and nice articles, big articles on the front page of the newspapers there. And tomorrow the governor is coming as the chief guest for the program. He was... He had that Sunday—that is tomorrow—he was fixed on going to Sai Baba's conference, but when we went to see him he was very pleased because he had gone to our Vṛndāvana temple just ten days back, so he was very much enthused with our activities and he liked the temple very much. So he was very pleased and he said, "Yes, I will cancel Sai Baba's program and come to your program."
Devotee: Jaya. (laughter)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the governor of Karnataka?
Mahāṁsa: Yes. He was the chief minister of Rajastan previously.
Prabhupāda: Yes, some governor went to our temple, I heard.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Akṣayānanda wrote to me. Governor of Karnataka State.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is a good response, that after seeing our temple he decided to attend our conference. That is very good.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now Dr. Channa Reddy must have become busy because when the presidents rule then the governor has to do some work. Otherwise in India the governors, they do no work.
Indian man (1): He takes instruction from president.
Haṁsadūta: In America in the upcoming elections in 1976, one of the biggest candidates is a movie actor, Ronald Reagan. Yes.
Prabhupāda: For presidentship?
Haṁsadūta: For presidentship. And he stands a very good chance of winning.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's governor of California. (break) The movie stars are entering into politics now. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the government will be incompetent, the more the citizens will be exploited. Ultimately the citizens will suffer. Because they will want money and plunder the citizens, they will be disgusted. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. (break)
Tejās: ...tax division, the clerks will come to the various businessmen after they make their first application, and they will tell them... First they will come to them. And immediately a businessman knows, so he gives him 500,000 rupees. And he will say, "Oh, thank you very much. I just came to see you. I wanted to tell you that if you say like this, you will save ten thousand, twenty thousand rupees. But don't say when you are there that I told you." (end)
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Without varṇāśrama-dharma there is no civilization. Yes. They are trying to abolish this under the name of "caste system." It is not caste system. Caste system, or whatever you call, there must be these four division. Not four, eight. This is general, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Then, according to the brahminical culture, the spiritual, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. And after sannyāsa, then spiritual life, complete, śuddha-sattva. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you have to establish varṇāśrama. Varṇāśramācāra. Ācāra. Ācāra. Varṇāśrama ācāra. Yes. Because the aim is... Again we come to the... Just like state affairs going on, but ultimate aim is to keep the government satisfied. Then you'll get everything nicely. Similarly, the supreme government or supreme governor is God. That is your duty, to keep Him satisfied. Then you get all direction, all facilities and life. That is the aim. But these rascals, they do not know what is government or who is the governor. They are doing anything whimsically, and they're punished. Prakṛti is there. Prakṛti is there. Government does not want that you suffer, but you violate the government's law. Therefore you suffer. That these rascals do not understand. They declare, "There is no government." So this is foolishness, ignorance, mūḍha. There is government, he sees, and still he is rascal. He says, "No, no, I don't care for anyone. There is no government." That is atheism; that is hooliganism.
Prabhupāda: Tragedy, yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Last year, when Governor Reddy was here, you were talking with him how "Let there simply be the government's position to check and see that everyone is following their particular religion."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is government's position.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So how would, for example, the government.... In a perfect society, how would the government check to see that the brāhmaṇas are actually practicing, and how would...?
Prabhupāda: There is.... The brāhmaṇa... This is brāhmaṇa. This formula is there. Satya śamo damas titikṣā ārjava. So you have to see whether he is possessing this quality. Or train them. Have brahminical school, what I am willing to do. That is required absolutely. There must be a class of men, perfect brāhmaṇa. Otherwise society will be ruined. In the Western countries there is no brāhmaṇa. There may be some kṣatriyas and vaiśyas only, and śūdras. Brāhmaṇa there is none. So the same thing is here also now. Therefore the whole society is going down. There is no brāhmaṇa. What is this? This is brahminical culture. We are asking them not to be sinful, become devotee. This is brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, for the benefit of brahminical culture and cow protection. That is brahminical culture.
Prabhupāda: Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Again and again chewing the chewed. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31).
Candanācārya: Prisoners, they spend so much of their life in the prisonhouse that when they are given an opportunity to leave, they refuse. (Prabhupāda laughs) They say, "No, I'm so accustomed to stay here, I'd rather just stay in prison." So they beg the governor to let them stay in prison.
Prabhupāda: If he comes out, he faces unemployment. Better to remain here. (break)
Jagadīśa: ...how to prolong life and stop death. So Dr. Frog has a recent theory that (Prabhupāda laughs) if a person fasts on every third day, he can prolong his life, twice as long. They are experimenting with rats on this basis. (break)
Rāmeśvara: And we take our knowledge from Śrīla Vyāsadeva.
Trivikrama: And here also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the ocean, they're surfing, extreme cold.
Rādhāvallabha: It's so cold that they sit on the water and they just tremble.
Prabhupāda: That is also another punishment, voluntary.
Prabhupāda: Why shall I not? Government servants, they live in the best place. We are Kṛṣṇa's servants, the supreme government. We must have the best car, best house, the best food, (laughter) everything. You are unfortunate, you are wretched, you cannot possess this. We are government's servants. Why the governor is living in the best house of the city?
Mādhavānanda: We said, "You can live here with us." She said, "Thank you."
Prabhupāda: Without any charges. Did you not say? But as soon as you shall say there is no tea, he'll go away. "Oh, horrible." (laughter) Just see. And you have to rise early in the morning. "Oh, it's still horrible." And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. "Ah, still."
Prabhupāda: But you are intelligent. Why you are putting the forefather's words? You avoid it. That means you are cheating people. You do not believe in, but you still write it. That means cheating. Why do you write such things in which you do not believe? That means cheating. Hmm? What do you think? If you write something which you do not believe in, are you not cheating? That means cheating. You take word, you are giving a piece of paper, and it is written there, "one thousand dollars." That means you are cheating, in the name of God, he will accept you, that's all. If you say, "No, I don't want paper. Give me gold dollar," then you are finished. Your currency will be finished. Immediately there will be revolution, that "The government is cheating us." Actually it is cheating. What is the proof, value, of this paper, little paper? Simply "I promise to pay, governor and this..." But it is on trust only: "Yes, government will pay me." They'll never pay, but so long the government goes on, it will go on, that's all, cheating will go on. And as soon government fails, you throw in the street, no one will care for it. It has been practically proved in the last war, in Germany. There was scarcity of food, and those who had bunch of currency notes, they went for one piece of bread, so many thousand marks, "Give me." Nobody supplied. So the paper has no value, but if we believe, it has value, that's all. Otherwise what is the meaning of this paper, one thousand dollars? So it is a kind of cheating, "We trust in God; we are very good men. You trust in me."
Brahmatīrtha: If you say to a politician, "Give Śrīla Prabhupāda money..." Like I said to one man running for governor of this state, I said, "Why can't you help the community in New Vrindaban?"
Prabhupāda: Oh, you said?
Brahmatīrtha: He cited to me so many rules and regulations. They're not interested. They're interested in pleasing themselves. A man runs for government, his whole position to run for governor is to please himself so that he can become rich.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Here, you are right. Sense gratification. Nobody wants to do anything. Nixon captured the presidential post for his own satisfaction. And when the people found that "Here is a trick," they agitated and got him down. So this is the difficulty, that andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās the 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). We are blind and we are being guided by blind men. So the result is catastrophe.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can I ask another question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Question number nine. Is a guru essential to one to enter the spiritual path and attain the goal, and how does one recognize one's guru?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is explained, that guru is necessary. In the Bhagavad-gītā when Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna were talking as friend, there was no conclusion. The talking was going on but no conclusion was made. Therefore Arjuna decided to accept Kṛṣṇa as his guru. Find out this verse. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ.
Kīrtanānanda: Court jester.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Court jesters, yes. So there was a man, court jester, in Bengal. So the Muhammadan governor asked one Gopal Bhan, jester... He was jester in the court of Raja Krishna Chandra. So he asked him, Nawab, that "Gopal Bhan, I have heard you are very expert. Can you write a similar book, Mahābhārata, about my kingdom?" (laughter) "Oh, yes. Why not?" That is not... So he took some hundred thousands of rupees and again come: "Give me another ten thousand," "Another ten," in this way. "When the book will be finished? You have taken so much money." "It is just on the verge of being finished." Then, when he saw that no more money can be taken—"I have taken so much money"—then he one day said that "Now, sir, one information is very essential. That is wanted. You give me, and the Mahābhārata will be finished. Everything is there." "What is that information?" "Now, your wife, how many husband she has got?" "This is nonsense!" "Eh? Well, that is the main subject matter of Mahābhārata. Draupadī had five husbands, so you are such a great person, your wife must have at least one dozen. Otherwise how Mahābhārata will...?" "It is the subject matter of?" "Yes, that is the only subject matter, that Draupadī had five husbands. So you are such a big nawab, your wife must at least have one dozen. So give me their names." So he became very angry, "Don't talk all this nonsense." "Then I cannot finish your Mahābhārata." "I have already invested..." So he took another ten thousand rupees, and he said, "Stop all this nonsense. That's all right." So these rascals, they are writing Gopal Bhan's Mahābhārata, and the rascal government is paying them.
Prabhupāda: They propagated the Thames River as very big river. And when I first saw it, it is canal. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Canal. And the Ganges they said was nasty. Thames was a river and the Ganges was...
Prabhupāda: Jamesford, Lord James. That Jamesford is a village only. Some big man, little, take the title lord and go and become governor there. And when some Indian comes they say that Lord Jamesford was traveling in third-class compartment in railway.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These buildings are not actually made of this stone. They are made of brick, covered by stone.
Prabhupāda: But they are very nicely made. It is not possible now to construct such nice...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtanānanda is constructing like this, though.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this building?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Museum of Natural History. Actually, it is made of stone. The museums are...
Prabhupāda: Government building, they can stand at the cost of taxpayer. (break) West Central Park?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Central Park West, it's called.
Prabhupāda: On the whole, during British time, people were happy, that I can... The thing is that Britishers were little afraid that "If the government is not good, it will go against our credit, that we may agitate." So they were careful to see that people are happy. But here nobody's careful. Everyone thinks "I'm in my own country. Whatever I do, it is all right." They were conscious, that "We are foreigners. If the management is not good, then it will go against our credit and it will be difficult working such a big England empire." So they were little careful. But these rascals are not... Just like the governor, he was friendly, but what is the report? Did he say? Did not behave very nicely?
Harikeśa: He wasn't interested to help for the tax exemption.
Hari-śauri: Yes, you told me before, Bon Mahārāja and Tīrtha Mahārāja, they were writing all these big, big men, but they told them frankly, that "I'm not going to do anything for you."
Prabhupāda: None of them. Formerly, a British governor, secretary, was a friend. You could get some service from him. The Britishers they knew the etiquette that if friends ask some help, I must help you. That is etiquette.
Jñānagamya: Sometimes something happens to interfere with that. He gets a reprieve from the governor, or the rope breaks, and they only hang him once.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but first thing is that if one is ordered to be hanged, he has to be hanged. Destined. But these people, they do not see who has ordered because they do not accept authority. They will say, "It is by chance." They have not seen who has ordered, who is that authority. They cannot explain; therefore they say "Chance."
Jñānagamya: They have no science of astrology, so they cannot understand the universe and how it's working.
Prabhupāda: Astrology... I don't think they believe in astrology. There is no question of astrology. We practically we see that one man ordered to be hanged by the justice, he has to be hanged. That is destiny. One has not seen who has ordered, but he sees that "This man is being hanged." He cannot explain; he says, "By chance." So whose explanation is right? The chance explanation or the destiny explanation—which is right?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Actually, logically, I cannot see how there is any chance, not a single. When I was a child I used to give an argument to my friend, and he used to say, "A chance. Everything is chance. It is like a lottery ticket." I said to him, "If you don't buy the lottery ticket and win $50,000, then that is chance. But if you buy the lottery ticket..."
Prabhupāda: How it is chance?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no chance, because you bought the lottery ticket, so...
Prabhupāda: Your destiny. Then your destiny.
Prabhupāda: Let them say(?) unfinished. When it was finished it was more than twenty lakhs...Fifty lakhs. And the temple was opened by the governor of U.P.
Pradyumna: We have mentioned that.
Gargamuni: And enclose his two letters. He wrote very nice letters. Very beautiful letters.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Gargamuni: He wishes us all success, and he begs for your blessings. He begs for your blessings.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this letter should be... They should immediately be brought into court and charged the damage for fifty thousand dollars.
Prabhupāda: I'm writing one letter to the governor that I work hard, I print my books and they are selling, and if I bring the money to construct temple, why people are envious? What is the wrong there? Rather, I should be encouraged that I am bringing so much money in India, foreign exchange, by my hard labor. So why they are envious? Why... I have sent this to the governor.
Jayapatākā: To the governor?
Prabhupāda: Governor, Mr. Chandra Reddy. "Why, wherefrom they are getting money, where, why?" That is my very, very hard labor, that's all. Is it wrong if a man works hard and gets money in foreign country and bring in India?
Gargamuni: I think they cannot believe that a sādhu could have so much money from selling books.
Prabhupāda: That may be beyond their dream, but I am not so-called sādhu. I am trying to execute the orders of my Guru Mahārāja, predecessor. I am not a so-called sādhu, taking a saffron robe, begging for fulfilling the belly.
Prabhupāda: The building belonged to a big zamindar. So Prabhākāra arranged. So it was to be given to me, and I wanted to start the League of Devotees from there. So I spent some money, whatever money I had, and it was going on. But in the meantime, this Lilavati Munshi, Mrs. At that time she was wife of the governor. Her husband, K. M. Munshi. She had some organization of foreign women. So somehow or other she got imagination that "This house is very nice." She was governor's wife. So it was not given to me rightly, but I was using. So she wanted that house. Through collector and through all government officials pressure. She wrote me later on, that "Bhaktivedantajī, you wanted to organize, but you could not. But I have got this institution. Why not give it to me?" So, of course, there were many lawyer friends. They advised me that "You do not give up. You should litigate." So I thought, "Who is going to litigate? Let me go to Vṛndāvana." So I left. So at Mathurā I delivered the Deity to this Keśavajī Gauḍīya Maṭha, and I made my place in Vṛndāvana.
Jayapatākā: You say she was kicked out from the trusteeship. She's not part of that any more.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The other trustees said that "You are simply spending. What you are doing?" After all, when she was wife of the governor she had some prestige. Otherwise... She invited me in that Juhu, she has got a house in Juhu. So I told her, "Yes, I can purchase your press. Fifty lakhs is not a very big amount for me, but what shall I do? We are printing offset." That is the cause... Because nowadays printing is done by offset press, she lost all business. People got big, big contract, they got cheaper and better quality. Why they should stick to that press? And government contract was taken from them, big, huge business they lost. Tata Press, they have got offset. Government transferred there. And that was her main support. It was a nice, good press. Practically best press in Bombay, Associated Press. But because it is letter press... Now to maintain the letter press is very costly.
Prabhupāda: I think air-conditioned?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Some rooms are air-conditioned, two or three...
Prabhupāda: As far as your governor Reddy, he went. He stayed there two days. He has certified... He sent me a recent letter, you'll be surprised. Ask Harikeśa to bring that letter. Latest letter from Chatterjee.
Krishna Modi: No I have seen that. I have seen that.
Prabhupāda: Latest?
Krishna Modi: Latest. Also I heard that this Channa Reddy, Governor of the U.P.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's one of our Gurukula children.
Prabhupāda: Let us cooperate. You'll see how I can change the face of India.
Krishna Modi: Let us train some members also.
Prabhupāda: And this is the only platform where real United Nations can be made. That is practical. That is practical. That United Nation has failed. If this Indian culture... I have given this philosophy to the American students. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. That a lame man and a blind man, separately, both of them are useless. But when they combine together, the lame man is taken on the shoulder of the blind man, and the lame man has got eyes but he has no legs. He gives direction and the blind man goes. So the, at the present moment I am trying to spread this movement all over the world. But we have no means. So let America supply the money, and let them take our direction for the culture. That will be United Nation. And actually it will become. How they are dancing, black, white, Indian, American, European, in Ratha-yātrā? There is no politics. It is out of really spiritual ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. You can go and play. You cannot understand.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Go and play. "In London, George Harrison donated a big castle which is now called Bhaktivedanta Manor. We have purchased many buildings and converted them to temples from the sale of our books. What is wrong if a portion of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust sales are transferred to India for construction of temples? Fifty percent of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust income is spent for further publishing and the other fifty percent is spent to build temples all over the world. In fact, Blitz should appreciate this because Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books are bringing valuable overseas currency into the country without any cost to the Indian public. Point seven. Blitz: In Bombay they have put up a temple with a barbed fence around it. ISKCON There is no barbed wire around the temple. We invite Blitz to show us the barbed wire." There's no barbed wire. "Point eight. Blitz: Already rupees twelve lakhs have been spent on an unfinished temple in Vṛndāvana. ISKCON: Blitz does not know that the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple in Vṛndāvana was completed and officially inaugurated by Dr. Chenna Reddy, governor of U.P., in April, 1975." They are saying the temple is still being made. "Point nine. Blitz: Their major center seems to be in Orissa, the land of princes and paupers. They have built a center close to an atomic energy commission complex. ISKCON: How foolish. Our major center is not in Orissa, but in Śrīdhāma Māyāpur in West Bengal. Māyāpur is the birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, an incarnation of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. We are coming in Lord Caitanya's disciplic succession and therefore we want to develop Māyāpur and make this an international center. In Orissa, we do have two devotees living in three huts in Bhuvaneśvara. They are living on a piece of land that was donated by one of our life members from Calcutta. If at all it is near the Atomic Energy Commission, it is only by coincidence."
Prabhupāda: It was donated by the late governor and Central Minister. Nityananda Kananda. (?)
Prabhupāda: It was donated by the late governor and Central Minister. Nityananda Kananda. (?)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He donated it. Okay, I'll write down his name them. "Gaura-Govinda Swami, a 45 year old retired teacher from Orissa is in charge of our Bhuvaneśvara center." So they'll know. "Point ten..."
Prabhupāda: So that land was donated by a prominent man. Nityananda Kananda (?) was central government minister and later on governor of Gujarat. And he often comes to see me in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: The name is Nityananda Kananda.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Kananda. What was his title before? What was he...? Ex-governor?
Prabhupāda: He was a minister in the central government, deputy minister.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Deputy minister.
Prabhupāda: Deputy minister in the central government.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: During when? Approximately?
Prabhupāda: During Jawaharlal Nehru's time. And later on governor of Gujarat.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Governor of?
Prabhupāda: Gujarat. Now he's retired.
Prabhupāda: He was a very good governor-general. Many gentlemen came, they wrote very conscientiously and the last one, that rascal Chelmsford (chuckles), he created havoc.
Hari-śauri: Hm.
Prabhupāda: I saw in London... Near London there is a village, Chelmsford, and he is Lord Chelmsford. We thought Chelmsford, the big state. (laughter) We were under the impression, Thames River is four times bigger than Ganges and (laughter) it is a canal. When I saw it, it is nothing but a canal. But they advertise this river, very big river. And underneath the water, men are going, and upper and wonderful. Big Ben, that Big Ben advertisement.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Parliament. All photograph (laughter) actually. Downing Street, 10 Downing Street, Prime Minister's office and so on. And actually it's all (chuckles) no importance. Parliament, big, big advertisement. People are still going, they are paying fees to see.
Prabhupāda: Original orders, that should be copied and sent. This arrangement, ask them all over India and beside that we have recently got a testimony of one University authorities, just like one Goswami from Calcutta University and many others they have got. These copies should be sent immediately. We can approach even the chief justice of Allahabad high-court, he came here, the minister here, the governor of Punjab, he came to see me, the governor...
Hari-śauri: Andhra Pradesh government also.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Andhra Pradesh, chief minister.
Hari-śauri: Immediately (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Minister, Vṛndāvana. Collect all these and send it that this is a genuine movement because it is great cultural movement. Therefore, Swami Bhaktivedanta wanted to give it to Europe who are in the darkness. So anyway, now they are feeling the action of the medicine.
Prabhupāda: He was becoming very popular. So...
Haṁsadūta: And at least according to Bible, it appeared that the Jewish priests, they went to the governor or the chief man at that time, and they demanded that he has to do something about this man.
Prabhupāda: They have proposed it. That Houston politician, "It is spreading like epidemic." Hm? Come. "It is spreading like epidemic. Something must be done." Otherwise one day they'll capture our government." That's a fact. If so many young men join this movement, they will vote. Because your country is democratic. (conchshell blows) Do this what I suggested.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah. You see them...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (break) "What is this pressure?" "Sir is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (laughter) And very bad." Some day somebody says, "No it is good." (laughter) But Kṛṣṇa pressure.
Prabhupāda: He's a black man.
Jagadīśa: Yes. Then, later on, that man he was appointed Lieutenant Governor under Carter. So Carter and this man are close, and through this man Carter knows about Balavanta and the movement.
Prabhupāda: You have written one letter?
Jagadīśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Balavanta is very intelligent boy. He can do that. Bring that spring water, little. You can type this?
Jagadīśa: On your letterhead?
Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.
Prabhupāda: Protest? Why this nonsense suggestion is done? These are rascal things. You have no experience and you do something which is...
Devotee: I asked the governor to give a letter of...
Prabhupāda: Why did you approach the governor without asking me? You cannot make the governor so cheap thing that you will go always and ask something. Unnecessarily spend money and waste time.
Devotee: I met him in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: He was there? But how governor can protest?
Devotee: What he suggested in this case...
Prabhupāda: He will suggest hundreds of things, but he cannot protest personally. That is not... What is the court case? That we have to place before the court that "This is genuine cultural or religious movement." We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we are trying to spread. This is genuine, the simple thing. We have not manufactured anything, "transcendental meditation" or like that. That is not our business. We are presenting simply what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. If somebody said that "Bible is not genuine," will it be accepted? Thousands and thousands are claiming to be Christian on the basis of... Similarly millions and millions of people in India, they know Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. How it is not genuine? That we have to prove, that's all. It's not that... Repeatedly we are speaking that what Kṛṣṇa said, that is perfect. That's all. This is our business. Who will object to that? You could not present to the governor that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Anyone can say, "Yes, it is based on Bhagavad-gītā. It is genuine." Any Indian can say. You have to take that to present in the court. If from official, it is... How the official can deny it? It is genuine. Now, about this sewer line, after all... (end)
Prabhupāda: But All India conference, it is not for mass understanding. Kṛṣṇa said yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. Śreṣṭhaḥ means the leaders of society. Rājarṣayo. Not ordinary persons. Rāja, he must be just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Lord Rāmacandra, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. They are rājarṣi. They are saintly persons, but they are governor. Such persons should understand. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ tad tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the śreṣṭha person understands Bhagavad-gītā, it is not for the mass of people. Because
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
You cannot make a mass meeting and pass resolution and you'll understand Kṛṣṇa. It is not like that. Workers must be also very śreṣṭhas, not ordinary workers. He must understand Kṛṣṇa. Then he can... It is not foolish, what kind of (indistinct). So if you want to prove Bhagavad-gītā, find out the śreṣṭhas of the country, sit down. Not that at mass conference—you bring meeting (?) And preaching. Select! If you understand then you can preach.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real noncooperation. (laughter) What this public noncooperation will do. They are simply clerks. Some of them may be high-court judges, but no responsible post was given.
Guest (1): And all these atrocities were committed by Indians upon Indians at the orders of the British.
Prabhupāda: All the big, big secretaries, under-secretaries, governors... There was no minister, all European, only some clerks. So what is the use of clerks' noncooperation? They didn't care. And in order to pat Gandhi, the governor sometimes used to invite him. "Sir, you are so powerful. Kindly stop this movement." And Gandhi became puffed-up that the Britishers are very afraid of him. "No! I shall do." And Subash Bose insisting, "In this way, they'll never go by this nonviolent."
Guest (1): Human nature as it is, you can't... Unless there is some sort of a compulsion, whether in spiritual...
Prabhupāda: And in politics, might is right.
Guest (1): Of course. Survival of the fittest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In politics you cannot become...
Guest (1): A sādhu. It is absurd. (laughing)
Prabhupāda: That is absurd.
Prabhupāda: Then Brahmā began to kill his sewerni (?) and his pigs and others, and then he began to cry and took him by force. There is a (indistinct). Even Indra, when he comes under the influence of this tamo-guṇa, he became happy in the high life of suar.
Dr. Patel: Māyā duratyayā. Mama māyā duratyayā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14).
Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Śrutaśrava: The governor there, he was making a statement that most institutions in California like hospitals and places like this, they are simply torture chambers. So he made one request that people like priests and monks and Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, if they could go to these places and try to help people.
Prabhupāda: We are prepared. If they give us in charge, we are prepared.
Śrutaśrava: So in Christmas day Rāmeśvara Mahārāja was planning that many devotees could go there and distribute prasāda and some literatures.
Prabhupāda: We can cure them from material and spiritual diseases. They are now trying to cure them from material ailments. We can cure them from spiritual ailments. Actually, the ailment is spiritual. Material is symptom. (end)
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Jagadīśa: (reading letter) "Enclosed please find a clipping showing a press interview with California Governor Jerry Brown, who is a potential presidential candidate in the next election, asking the Hare Kṛṣṇa followers to help humanize conditions in the state mental institutes. He recognized that what is needed is for religious leaders to come in and to give these patients new life. And he recognized us as religious leaders. This is a great credit for us, and we immediately called the five biggest state institutes and got permission to visit their patients. We sent fifty devotees with gift-wrapped 'Krishnas' presents of prasāda, Bhagavad-gītās and Kṛṣṇa books, calendars, records, and so on. And all of the doctors were so appreciative that they invited us back to show movies, put on plays, and continue helping their patients."
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Aiye.
Guest (1) (Indian man): Humanity is hungry for love of father Śrī Kṛṣṇa, devotion, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only...
Guest (1): That is only medicine. That is only remedy.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: And where is governor's camp from our?
Gurudāsa: I don't know exactly, but it's in the same island. I'll find out.
Prabhupāda: No, there is... Our governor is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29).
Dr. Patel: All the Britishers were organizing this Mela, Kumbha.
Prabhupāda: No, in... They were taking... The committee... I said that, "We have committee?" This is British time. One magistrate is the head and assistants, so many.
Dr. Patel: The government officers may not be getting any interest, only the Hindu officials, these British officers.
Prabhupāda: No. Our government, they have to manage so many people. The Nagas... I learned it from Bhāgavatam.
Dr. Patel: Nagas come from Assam, no?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Arjuna married the Naga king's daughter. And he had a son.
Prabhupāda: But they do not know whom to expose. That they do not know. That's nice.
Rāmeśvara: They are making it possible for us to preach in all the TVs, radios, and newspapers.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is our opportunity. The governor has invited.
Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book, after Kṛṣṇa told Rukmiṇī that He would have to leave her...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jagadīśa: ...then she was speaking to Him and saying that "You say that no one can understand Your activities. And also no one can understand the activities of Your devotee." So nobody knows what we're doing. They all put some psychological name, but they can't grasp the essence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So they're afraid.
Rāmeśvara: One of their big charges is that when we go out and distribute our books we are very aggressive, and therefore it is a sign that we are not actually religious.
Prabhupāda: Every salesman must be aggressive. That is a qualification.
Prabhupāda: So in Orissa you'll be also there?
Rāmeśvara: They want me to go back to Los Angeles for that concert, because the governor is coming. That popular Hindu singer, Lata Mangeskar, she's giving a benefit concert in Los Angeles on January 30th.
Prabhupāda: So who will be the big ticket purchaser?
Rāmeśvara: Satsvarūpa. Oh. You mean in Los Angeles?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Hindus.
Rāmeśvara: There are approximately eight thousand Hindus living in Los Angeles, and we have rented one auditorium that seats six thousand people. So if they only sell two thousand seats, it does not cost any money. It covers all the expenses. Anything over two thousand seats is profit for ISKCON.
Prabhupāda: So how many Indians are there?
Rāmeśvara: Altogether in Los Angeles, eight thousand. Plus Indians from San Francisco will come to this concert because she is very popular. Gopāla sent one devotee, Jagat-puruṣa, to manage the ticket selling.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is expert.
Prabhupāda: Unless they made such propaganda, how they could stay? They must give some plea that "I am staying for their benefit." That was the propaganda all through. And any Indian who would agree to say in the League of Nations and when there is conference, "Yes, we are so much benefited," he would be made secretary, governor. The flatterer, he would be made governor.
Rāmeśvara: So they kicked the British out, but they still have the British system.
Prabhupāda: They have learned this. They have been accustomed... And by nature they are not, I mean to say, dovetailed to this system of life.
Hari-śauri: Somehow or another, they just can't do it. They can't live like that.
Prabhupāda: And now we are going to Kumbha Mela, a religious assemble. In the Western countries you don't find so much.
Prabhupāda: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya. Any way, if something is done in this connection, it becomes an asset.
Rāmeśvara: Now, this Governor of California, he invited us to assist him for helping the conditions in these mental retarded hospitals. So that is like mundane charity, in one sense. So is it all right for our men to take some time? Because the end result will be that we will become appreciated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, you do. Wherever we get opportunity, we shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Rāmeśvara: We can teach them to chant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is our medicine.
Rāmeśvara: But, of course, the main thing is that the governor, he is not inviting us so much to give religion. He wants...
Prabhupāda: No, this is our method to cure.
Prabhupāda: Let us cooperate. The Manipur is already... For the last five thousand years at least, their name is in the Bhāgavatam, Manipur. And still they are Vaiṣṇavas. They have got temple in Navadvīpa, in Vṛndāvana. So Manipur have cele...
Gargamuni: The chief minister also came, Karan(?) Singh?
Prabhupāda: The governor of Punjab is Manipuri. He's so kind, he came to see me with his full staff. That governor is so respectful to me. So he came to see me. You know?
Pradyumna: Yes. At Chandigarh.
Prabhupāda: Chandigarh, yes. In his state way-eti khan,(?) secretary, everything—he came to offer me respect. So Manipuri people are very nice. So why not organize? Rejuvenate them. So you are the Manipur's son. Now you are perfect Vaiṣṇava. Now let us make Manipur a Vaiṣṇava kṣatriya center, very nice. Then make relation with Nepal. Nepal, they are kṣatriyas also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have intermarriage within the kingly families. The Manipur and Nepal. There is marriage.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have intermarriage.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are kṣatriyas. Manipur, they are kṣatriyas, and Nepal is also kṣatriya. Is also? Bopal? Bopal.(?) They are kṣatriyas?
Pradyumna: Bhutani.
Prabhupāda: Nobody, no clerk is getting nine hundred rupees. Maybe officers, superintendent, they are getting. So actually people have not increased their income. That means they have become poor. Thirty rupees' clerk is very good position in those days. And sixty rupees' clerk, that is superintendent. The things were cheap. And two hundred rupees, officer, big income. The high-court judges were getting four thousand rupees in those days. What they are getting now? I don't think their salary has increased. Maybe five thousand, six thousand. The governor was getting ten thousand. High-court judges were getting four thousand. And secretaries were getting five hundred to one thousand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People have become poor, poor materially and spiritually. Actually it's clear that the devotees are becoming wealthy materially and spiritually, and that is one of the reasons that these demons are so angry—because they see our opulence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are surprised (laughs) that "These people do not do anything, and they're living so opulent?" They inquired in Los Angeles. You know that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: All. So Manipur is a small state. If it is possible... Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I should ask some of them to...
Prabhupāda: Hm. If some of the leaders may come and see me. Just like the governor of Chandigarh. He's nice man. He came to see me in his governmental position with his aide-de-camp, car and men. So I think Manipuri people... And it is a Vaiṣṇava state. Why not make it Kṛṣṇa conscious? They are already Kṛṣṇa conscious. Make it in a systematic way.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: These chief minister, they claim... They're called R.K., means rāja-kumāras. Claim to be the descendants of...
Prabhupāda: Babhruvāhana. Then he can do that. He can do that. And what is the wrong? Suppose the legislators become first-class brāhmaṇa, so what is the wrong there? Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. In Manipur, it's no so much influenced yet from outside civilization.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I suggest. They are Vaiṣṇavas. They can take it and show an ideal state in the world. Then others may follow.
Prabhupāda: ...make the whole land, people, very happy. You show this example all over the world, this example, in America. Don't spoil money. Show by example. Enough science and enough motorcar, that's all. No more wanted. This is wanted. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Bring water from the sky. Keep always land moist and green. This is wanted. It is not my desire. It is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Here Vyāsadeva says, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). These rascals, they do not know. They do not consult śāstra, therefore manufacture. In Chandigarh so much land lying vacant. Thirty years already passed. And they are developing the cities. And another four hundred years will be required. The land is lying vacant. And they are making two governors, five commissioners, six ministers and..., drawing fat salary. This is government. Government means to draw fat salary at the expense of poor people. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Just like the rogues and thieves, they by force take money from us, these rascal, under some law, they'll take, this government. They will live at any cost. Never mind forty rupees (indistinct) a week. They have got cheap money. Print note and give him forty rupees. What is that? "You want forty rupees? Eh, take forty rupees." This is artificial inflation. They have got power to print notes. "Pay gold forty rupees." "No, that is illegal. Take paper." Means a cheating business from the government. He's giving him piece of paper, and the rascal is thinking, "I am making one thousand rupees." Formerly, in our childhood, we have seen a currency. They will offer, "What you want, gold, silver, or currency?" These three things were offered. If you want gold coins, take gold coins. If you want silver coins, take silver. And if you want currency, you take. We have seen it.
Prabhupāda: Leaders.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Leaders. Governor of the state and Educational Minister. Dr. Sharma told me that he can arrange those things easily.
Prabhupāda: So do that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dr. Sharma is very helpful, and he's very interested in this idea.
Prabhupāda: You are doing nicely. Kṛṣṇa will help. (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I wanted to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda... Yesterday I was asking about that title, that "Bhaktivedanta Vijñāna Conference." That doesn't seem to be attractive. It's not...
Prabhupāda: No.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So Your Divine Grace has some suggestion?
Prabhupāda: Why not stress that life comes from life, not otherwise?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that will be the theme: life comes from life. Just like "Scientific Conference on Life Comes From Life"?
Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.
Mr. Myer: Hindi is good. Hindi, English. In fact, he's now very obvious data.(?) He's very well connected. He's known to local governor and people each end in Calcutta. In fact, (indistinct) recommended you to start a center there. But only, you see, that so many faiths people start believing in. He has been believing in Sai Baba sometime. So I was not wanting... But he'll change. It's just a matter of time.
Prabhupāda: The Sai Baba has been challenged in so many ways.
Mr. Myer: I went one day. I was sitting. I watched him, and he said "Come with me," and... It was a while back. So like that, he's... But then when I told him about ISKCON he's definitely interested to know all about that. Because my eldest brother, he became a member first in Māyāpur about four or five years ago.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said Sai Baba has been exposed in so many ways now.
Mr. Myer: Yes. Biggest problem with him is, see, that he has some sort of a charm over people. Mainly people who go to him, they want some miracles. People who want some...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Cultural... We, our culture and philosophy. To be arrested is not new thing for politicians.
Haṁsadūta: She also said in that speech that in India it's not a shame to be arrested. In India this is not considered something bad. It's acceptable. And it's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Brahmānanda: The governor who came to see you in Bombay, practically his only qualification is that he was arrested. He was in jail for nineteen months. Before, he was a very small man. Now he's a big man simply because he was in jail for nineteen months.
Haṁsadūta: The new prime minister, we met him a few days after he was inaugurated. We gave him Kṛṣṇa book and a nice letter. He doesn't smoke or drink. He's a Buddhist. He seems to be a, relatively speaking, a nice man. But he's quite old. He's also seventy years old. But, Prabhupāda, eventually, our movement practically around the world will attract the attention of the government.
Brahmānanda: They will not like.
Haṁsadūta: They won't like it. Just like Germany, it's actually the government. The people are innocent. But these governments, they can see the danger in Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Bali-mardana: Would you like Haṁsadūta to chant some more?
Prabhupāda: Hm, hm. Yes.
Prabhupāda: He opened a branch in Pakistan.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did he open a branch in Pakistan?
Rāmeśvara: Not yet. There's one woman in Karachi who is Hindu woman. But her husband was a governor, one of the governors in Pakistan. He was a Muslim and he just died. And now she wants to reestablish her Hindu faith. She contacted me in Los Angeles and she wants to help open the temple in Pakistan. So I have given the name and address to Ātreya. (leads kīrtana) (break)
Prabhupāda: That will be our excellent achievement. This is our mission, the... Whatever we have got, teach others. In this spread. The whole world is chanting. Did you recite the verses in Fiji?
Yaśodā-nandana: Yes. In Fiji we recited all those verses, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: They appreciated?
Yaśodā-nandana: Yes. People liked it very much. They had never heard before.
Prabhupāda: Very good. The Gurukula is meant for this purpose. Teach them and let them go around the world to teach. Taroho e bhava-sindhu. Durlabha mānava-janama sat-saṅge, taroho e bhava-sindhu re. This is our mission. Īśopaniṣad?
Prabhupāda: What did you answer?
Bhagatji: I heard the answer forty years back, Prabhupāda, from one professor. He brought the map of the world, and he showed the India position. Like this. That suppose one is sick. Someone has some cut. Then he's a very good man, and he sends the information to the hospital. He said "It is a small cut. Let me send my compounder(?)." The compounder(?) goes and makes a powder(?). And sometimes he has got... Then he says "Let go." Then a big, more serious disease he sends. And suppose he gets heart attack, so then himself goes, because it is a very serious disease. So he got the world map, and he showed that India is the heart of the world. So Kṛṣṇa comes Himself. And U.P. is the heart of India. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes Kṛṣṇa comes to Bengal. (laughter)
Bhagatji: But in a devotee form.
Prabhupāda: Just like government has got a house. So when the governor comes, he comes in that house. Similarly India is the bhūmi, and whenever incarnation of God or God Himself comes... (break) ...discussion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We didn't discuss last night, but it was agreed that it was a good idea. In about three weeks it's cooler here. In Māyāpur there is nice weather. (indistinct) (end)
Prabhupāda: So that will be three.
Brahmānanda: Yes. Of the three, Mr. Nārāyaṇa is very favorable to us. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami was noticing it. He preached to him about two or three years ago. At that time he was chief minister for Gujarat, governor.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I want to suggest that you should not talk too much, because the doctor said conserve yourself. (indistinct) Because tomorrow we're going to be leaving at about two o'clock, two or two-thirty, so you won't get a full night's rest.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are the most important (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja you did not see?
Prabhupāda: Forty years?
Girirāja: Well, he's about, I think, sixty years old now. And when he was a young man of twenty he was the aide-de-camp of the viceroy. And I think he was also the secretary to the governor of Punjab when it was under the British.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He met with Gandhi and all of these other leaders.
Girirāja: Then, just after I left... Before that, I spoke to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, and he was arranging for Mahāṁśa Swami and Mr. Polareddy to meet the President of India to invite him to be the chief guest because Mr. Polareddy of Hyderabad knows the present President. And then, so far as the publicity for the opening, we felt that we should actually fix up the chief guest first, because if some big person like the President comes, that will be an important part of the wording of the invitation and the other publicity.
Prabhupāda: So finishing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Construction?
Girirāja: Well, the building was not finished. I think that... I mean the inside of the temple and the theater and the restaurant and lobby of the guesthouse and many of the guestrooms will be ready, but the marble work on the domes was very behind schedule. So when I was there only about ten or fifteen percent of the marble on the three big domes was up, and the... Of course, the three domes at the entrance were almost ready. So the three main domes could be finished by the time of the opening, but there will be marble work that has to go on after the opening.
Prabhupāda: It will never be finished. When the date is being fixed?
| Page Title: | Governor (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 08 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=78, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 78 |