Mahātmā means he has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa cent percent, and his only business is to worship and glorify Kṛṣṇa. That is mahātmā. So Gandhi never believed that there was Kṛṣṇa, but he became mahātmā by popular vote. That's all. That kind of mahātmā is not accepted by the śāstra. Mahātmā is, first symptom of mahātmā is that he must be a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is mahātmā. That is.... Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). And he is not under any material world. He is in the spiritual world. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. And what is the symptom? Bhajanty ananya-manaso. Ananya-manaso, without any diversion, he's simply devoted to Kṛṣṇa. This is mahātmā. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, therefore I request you to study Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly as it is. Then you become perfectly powerful, spiritual. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gandhi (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
After describing the material energy, bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), earth, water, air, fire, this material.... This is also female, prakṛti. Female means.... In India we have got little experience. The female is always controlled. Female is never given the position of controller. Nowadays it is going on. Just like Indira Gandhi, she has given the position of controller. This is artificial. In the history of India, greater India, Mahābhārata, you will never find that a woman has been given a position of controller. No. It is not possible.
There is no happiness actually, expanding selfishness. Just like a national leader like Mahatma Gandhi in our country. He planned that "Let the Britishers go away. My countrymen will be happy. My countrymen will be happy." But when the Britishers went away, giving the responsibility of Indian empire to the Indian people, Gandhi was thinking in the morning, "Oh, I am so unhappy. Now only death will please me." And the next, the same evening, he was killed. He was so unhappy. Because everything was topsy-turvied. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. Now the country was divided. The Muslims became separated. The whole program was changed.
Just like Gandhi served his country so much, so nicely, so voluntarily. Still, the result was he was killed by his countryman. Just see. Result was, the reward was that he served his country so much. It is undoubtedly, nobody can serve so sincerely. Everybody knows. But the result was even a person like Mahatma Gandhi was killed by his countrymen. Just this morning Mrs. Sharma was telling that she has worked so much for the family, but still, the sons and daughters, they want, "No, no, you cannot go. You serve us, serve us. We are not satisfied yet." They will never be satisfied. You serve māyā. The māyā will never be satisfied. Teṣāṁ na karuṇā jāta na trapā nopaśānti.
A first-class prisoner is also prisoner. You cannot say that he's free. No, free is different from a first-class prisoner. Sometimes, any respectable gentleman, some political offense, he's put into jail. Just like Gandhi also went to jail. And so many others. But they were given the place, first-class prisoners. They got servant. They got separate bungalow and books, library, all facilities. But they cannot go out of the prison house. They are called first-class prisoners. So to become a brāhmaṇa means to becomes a first-class prisoner. That's all.
Just like sometimes our political leaders. Each and every one of them thinks that without him, the whole situation will be spoiled. Even Mahatma Gandhi, he was so attached that he would not retire from political life—unless he was killed. The attachment was so strong. But after passing away of Mahatma Gandhi or Jawaharlal Nehru or so many big, big leaders, the world is going on. There is a Bengali proverb that "When the king dies, it does not mean the kingdom stops." The kingdom goes on. But when, so long, the leader or the person in charge remains there, he thinks that "Without me, everything will be spoiled." This is called māyā. This is called illusion.
Mahatma Gandhi. The famous. So fame is also opulence. And nobody knows me, but he is also a person. He is known throughout the whole world. So this is an opulence. Just like your Rockefellers. They are very rich. So everyone knows in the world. So they are opulent, opulent by wealth. Similarly, somebody is opulent by fame, and somebody is opulent by strength. And so strength is opulence, wealth is opulence, and fame is opulence. And then beauty; beauty is also opulence. If one, one man or woman, is very beautiful, he attracts persons. He attracts. So anything that attracts, that is called opulence. A wealthy man attracts. A strong man attracts. A famous man attracts. If somebody, famous man, comes here, oh, so many people will gather to receive him.
Just like we are ordinary man. We have got four imperfectness. What is that imperfectness? That we must commit mistake. We must commit mistake. Our constitutional position at the present moment is such that we are sure to commit mistake. Even greatest politician like Gandhi, he committed mistake, and so many great men, they committed mistake. "To err is human," therefore, it is called, that any, any man, however he may be great in the estimation of this world, he is sure to commit mistake. And another imperfection is that he is illusioned.
Just like in the state, expecting that there will be violence, therefore the police department is maintained, the military department is maintained. So you cannot avoid violence from this material world. It is useless proposal. Our Mahatma Gandhi tried to stop violence. He started the nonviolence movement, but factually he had to die by violence. So kṣatriya, they are trained up violent to become violent to stop violence. That is required.
To err is human. You must commit mistake. You must be illusioned. Your senses are imperfect, and you have got a cheating propensity. These four defects are there. Those who are not liberated, mukta-puruṣa, they have got four defects. What is that? He must commit mistake. Just like we can give you instance: Our Mahatma Gandhi, he was so great personality, but he also committed so many mistakes. Even on the day of his death, it is heard that he was forbidden not to go the meeting. The other persons, they scented some danger, but he forcibly went there and he was killed. So mistake, committing mistake. To err is human. That is not fault. That is our habit. We commit mistake.
My father, he used to be guest of a Muslim gentleman. He was his customer. So he used to make separate arrangement my father, a brāhmaṇa attendant, supplying all foodstuff. So there was no... And he was coming to our house, so he, accompanied with his servant Muslims, we used to supply foodstuff. They were cooking in their own way. Of course, no meat was allowed, but there were friendship. And while departing, he would give us some money, four rupees, five rupees, in the hands of all our brothers and sisters and offer respect to my mother as "Auntie." These feelings were there. This ill feeling was created by the Britishers. When they saw that Gandhi is improving the Hindu-Muslim situation, they created a, what is called, a split. Anyway, that is political.
Our great leader, Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā, nonviolence. He started the nonviolence movement, and he wanted to support... Everyone takes advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and tries to support his view on the strength of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore you will find so many interpretations. Everyone wants to utilize. There are more than six hundred publication, commentaries, on Bhagavad-gītā. One Dr. Rele in Bombay, he has interpreted Bhagavad-gītā as talks between a physician and a patient.
Now, this world, this world... Even Mahatma Gandhi... I have read his life. The day when he was to be killed, he did not know in the morning that he was going to be killed in the evening. But as a big man, he was receiving so many letters, so many congratulation, so many condemnation. You do not know. At the end of Gandhi's later part of life he was so disgusted with his life that he always wanted..., he spoke to his secretaries, associates, that "If death would come to me, I would be satisfied." Such a big man, such a great man. One of his practical difficulty was that he could not sleep soundly, partly due to his big occupation and partly due to the disturbance of the people. Wherever he will go, thousands and thousands of people will gather and will loudly speak, "Mahatma Gandhi kī jaya." Even at dead of night, at twelve o'clock of night, he is passing through a train, and if the train is stopped at the middle station, people will get information and gather, "Mahatma Gandhi kī jaya." So I have seen personally. When he was going through some crowd, he was closing, capping his ears like this. His brain was being unnecessarily taxed with this sound, "Mahatma Gandhi kī jaya." People thought that they were glorifying Mahatma Gandhi, but Mahatma Gandhi was being killed by that voice.
Because Bhagavad-gītā is a very authoritative book, and it is popular all over the world, sometimes people take advantage of this book and present their own theory in an adulterated way. Not to speak of others... I may tell you frankly that even in our country, the greatest, I mean to, saintly politician, Mahatma Gandhi, he propounded a philosophy of nonviolence. Perhaps you know, every one of you, that he propounded nonviolence, and he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. He has got an annotation of Bhagavad-gītā, and he has tried to prove that Bhagavad-gītā, there is proof, nonviolence. But actually, Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken in the battlefield, where everyone is prepared to start violence.
Now, Mahatma Gandhi, his philosophy was nonviolence. How could he prove that Bhagavad-gītā gives evidence of nonviolence? No. Therefore, anyone, Mahatma Gandhi or anyone, who has got his own ulterior motive, to prove it from the topics of Bhagavad-gītā, he must adulterate it. But that is not the process of reading Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā, how to read Bhagavad-gītā, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. When we come to the Fourth Chapter, we'll know. So anyway, apart from the process of... But rest assured, we are speaking here of the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We are not going to add, add in it something for fulfilling our own philosophy, our own points of view.
The supreme leader is Kṛṣṇa. Leader of the leader, leader of the leader. There are various types of leaders. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). These are the wordings in the Vedas. So He is the supreme leader. We are following some leader. Some leader is following Stalin, somebody Hitler, some leader is following Gandhi, somebody's following somebody, somebody. There must be some leader. But why not the supreme leader, who will never misguide you? He will give you actual path of happiness. Then you will become happy.
Now, this Bhagavad-gītā... The Bhagavad-gītā, we always... We must always remember that it is being taught in the actual battlefield. Now, a great personality like Mahātmā Gandhi, he wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. He was... He was in favor of the doctrine of nonviolence. Now, you have seen Mahatma Gandhi's picture that he is always standing with Bhagavad-gītā like this. So Bhagavad-gītā was his life and soul practically. And in the morning he was having Bhagavad-gītā class; in the evening he was having Bhagavad-gītā class. So that was his life and soul. But unfortunately he interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in his own way.
He was killed by violence. And his idea... He wanted to make Hindu-Muslim unity in India. The British government fabricated the Hindu-Muslim riots, and lastly, at last also, their purpose was fulfilled by partition of India, Pakistan and India. Now, Mahatma Gandhi worked throughout his whole life just to make a unification of the Hindus and Muslims. Unfortunately, at last, he had to see that the Hindus and Muslims of India were divided into Pakistan and India. And his nonviolence also failed.
Just like Lord Jesus Christ had some enemies, and Mahatma Gandhi had also some enemies who killed him. So the world is such treacherous. Even a sādhu, he has some enemies. You see? But sādhu, from his side, he has no enemy. He is friend of everyone. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām (SB 3.25.21). And ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ, always peaceful. These are the qualities of sādhu, saintly persons.
In some years ago at Jhansi I was, not in the sannyāsa days. I went there, and, by invitation of some friends, and they wanted to give me some lectures. That was Gandhi's birthday, and they asked me to speak on some nonviolence. So I spoke that violence means to check a person from the discharge of his duties. That is violence. That was my viewpoint.
There is nobody in the world, in this conditional state, who can boldly say that "I have never committed any mistake in my life." Is there anybody? No. We have committed so many mistakes. Even a perfect... I shall speak of our country. Our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he was supposed to be a very great, I mean to say, perfect leader of the country. He also committed mistakes, so many. And what to speak of us. What to speak of us. So a conditioned soul is sure to commit mistake. That is one imperfection.
Just like Mahatma Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi. He also wrote an interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā, and he wanted to prove that from Bhagavad-gītā, nonviolence. How you can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? The, the theme of Bhagavad-gītā is that Arjuna declined to fight and Lord Kṛṣṇa is just trying to induce him that "You must fight. You must fight." Ultimately, He said that "The program is already settled by Me. These people who have come here, they'll never return. They are destined to die. It is My program. Now, if you like, you can take the credit that you have conquered them." Last of all, He said like that. When the program is that the Bhagavad-gītā clearly says that in this case fighting is necessary, how can you prove that nonviolence is taught in Bhagavad-gītā? That is a different interpretation.
The trick is that because Gītā is a very reputed literature and Dr. Radhakrishnan, he's also a reputed scholar, so he thought that "I can..." Now, at the present moment, the things are going that everyone can give his own interpretation. That is the modern tendency, that everyone can give his own interpretation in any literature. So that, I mean to say, propensity, is also in Dr. Radhakrishnan, in Gandhi, and many other persons also. They are renowned persons of the world. So they have translated, and they have given their own opinion. But actually, so far Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, it is to be understood in the process as recommended by Kṛṣṇa. That is clear here.
If somebody comes to canvass for votes, you should first inquire, "Whether you have read Bhagavad-gītā? Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi showed Bhagavad-gītā. Why should you not? Do you know what is Bhagavad-gītā? Then I shall give you vote. Otherwise get out." Rājarṣayo viduḥ. This is required now, if you want to be saved from the crisis that is coming very gradually. Crisis means there will be... Now in black market you can get things, means eatables, rice, wheat. But if you don't take to Bhagavad-gītā, there will be no more even if you pay black price. Just time it... That time is coming. There will be no more available. There will be no milk. There will be no more sugar, sugar. There will be no more rice. There will be no more wheat. No more fruits. Then you have to eat meat.
We should not take Kṛṣṇa as one of us because He is bhūtānām īśvaraḥ. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. Just like a crude example may be given. When there was independence movement, Mahatma Gandhi went to jail, and many, many big leaders. But there are other criminals also, pickpockets and thieves and murderers. If they would think, "Now Mahatma Gandhi has come into jail. We are the same. We are the same." No. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes, if the rascals and fools think that "Kṛṣṇa is also like us, as we have come into this material world," they are fools. No. We are forced. Just like criminal, a pickpocket or a thief, a rogue, a murderer. He is forced to... So of course, here, Mahatma Gandhi was also forced. But that is not the case. Because He is the controller. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. He... The material energy cannot force Kṛṣṇa. Because He's īśvaraḥ. He's the controller. A controller cannot be forced.
have given this example, that you cannot satisfy anyone by material service. The example is in our country. Mahatma Gandhi gave his, the best capacity as he understood. Still, he could not satisfy everyone. Somebody killed him. So in this material world, so long we'll be in the material service, either socially or family-wise or community, whatever you do, you'll never be able to satisfy them. They will never say that "Now we are completely satisfied." Because it is disorganized. It cannot be.
Just like I am repeatedly mentioned here that in our country Mahatma Gandhi, he had his philosophy of non-violence, and he wanted to prove non-violence from Bhagavad-gītā. But Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the warfield. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken when Arjuna was in problem, whether to fight or not to fight. That is the, I mean the, background of Bhagavad-gītā. Now, if anyone wants to prove that Bhagava..., in Bhagavad-gītā there is non-violence, then you, you, you something else. Violence is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. So similarly, we should not try to under... Yes! We should not try to understand Bhagavad-gītā according to my viewpoint of view. I must understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is presented by Kṛṣṇa.
Just like... I'll give you a concrete example. In India, you know, Mahatma Gandhi was the leader. But you know that at the last stage he was killed. That means the leader could not satisfy the public, neither public was satisfied with the leader. This is the material leadership. Nobody can... Just like we see so many criticisms of President Johnson. The other day I was seeing in the paper. They have given some caricature. So this is going on. Nobody is satisfied. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ.
You go on serving your family. Nobody will give you relief. If you say that "Now I have done so much for you. Give me relief." First of all I do not want to be relieve also. That is also another disease. You see? You will be surprised. It is my practical experience. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, before starting, I wrote one letter to Mahatma Gandhi: "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got position. People accept you as a very pious man. Now you have got your sva-rājya, and you are very fond of Bhagavad-gītā. Let us preach Bhagavad-gītā." I wrote this letter. Unfortunately, a few days after, he was killed. So this is the position. All big, big leaders, they do not want to take relief from this sense gratification business.
So unless Kṛṣṇa desires, unless He allows, we cannot do anything. We cannot do any... This is the fact. So tattva-vit... Tattva-vit means one who knows the truth. He thinks like that, that "I cannot do anything. I am always dependent on Kṛṣṇa. I cannot..." Mahatma Gandhi he used to say that "Not a blade of grass moves without the sanction of God." It is a fact. It is a fact. Nothing can be done without His sanction.
Just like we have seen a practical example of Mahatma Gandhi in India. Now, he started a movement, non-violent, non-cooperation. The movement, the fight was declared against the powerful British Empire, just see. And he determined that "I shall fight with the Britishers non-violent. Without any weapon," because India was dependent, there was no weapon. And several times it was attempted armed revolution. But these Britishers and more powerful, they cut down. So Gandhi, he invented this method, that "I shall fight with the Britishers, even they become violent, I shall not become violent. So I shall get world sympathy." So this was his plan. He was great statesman. But his determination was so fixed up because he was a brahmacārī. From, at the age of thirty-six years he gave up. He had his wife but he gave up his sex life.
Just see, a sparrow is trying to dry up the ocean. (laughs) This is called determination. Just like our Gandhi. He declared war against the Britishers. War is that non-violent, noncooperation. You see? But the determination was there. That "I must drive away the Britishers." And he did it. And what is the weapon? Nonviolence. "All right, you fight, you kill me, I shall not attack you." You see? He became, what is that? Determination. People laughed. "Gandhi is declaring war with the Britishers, so powerful, British Empire." And actually after the Britishers lost India, they lost all Empire. Because that was the jewel of British Empire. They lost all possession in the Far East, they lost possession in Egypt, they lost possession on Suez Canal, everything lost. So determination is so nice thing.
Kṛṣṇa approached, advented Himself on this earth five thousand years before, but just see how much famous He is still. Can you give any example in the history? So many Hitlers, so many Mussolinis, so many Gandhis born and went away. They were famous for several years only. That's all. Nobody can be famous like Kṛṣṇa. All over the world He is famous, and what to speak of India? Complete fame. Similarly, complete strength, complete riches, complete beauty, complete knowledge... Just see, Bhagavad-gītā. It was spoken by Kṛṣṇa. There is no parallel, and there is no competition of Bhagavad-gītā. It is such a knowledge. You see? Complete knowledge.
In your country, George Washington, or in our country, Gandhi or somebody else. But this is false because you do not know where is that gentleman Washington has gone. We are simply worshiping a shadow. A photograph, a statue. But we do not know where is actually that spirit soul, his transmigration of the soul. The soul goes to another body and we foolishly worship the dead body, which is useless. This is called bhūtejyā. In Sanskrit language it is called bhūtejyā. Ghost worship. Yānti bhūtāni bhūtejyā. So this is only sentiment.
In spite of my becoming the highest executive person, President—Oh, I have to give service to my people, otherwise immediately they dethrone me. Therefore my real position is service. But service here is so dangerous, if there is little discrepancy of service, the President is immediately fired. Why your President Mr. Kennedy was fired. Because some people did not like that you are rendering nice service. That is the root fact. So you cannot satisfy here by service. Our Gandhi in India, he was also killed. He gave service throughout the whole life, but people at the time did not like. "Oh, you are not rendering their service." This is the position. Therefore one should be intelligent enough to know that no more service to these material objectives. I must give my service to the Supreme Lord. That is the perfection of life.
Jñānam, knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "I am giving you perfect knowledge." This is our process. We receive knowledge from the perfect person. There is no use getting knowledge from imperfect person. That is useless waste of time. And who is perfect person? Who does not commit any mistake, who is never illusioned, whose senses are not imperfect, and who is not a cheater. These are the qualification. (aside:) The children... These are the symptoms of perfect person. First thing is he does not commit mistake. Throughout the whole world you study big, big men. They committed mistake. Hitler committed mistake. Gandhi committed mistake. Churchill committed mistake. Because "To err is human," however big you may be, you cannot avoid mistakes because you are not liberated.
So Kurukṣetra is a place of pilgrimage; that is a fact. But unfortunately even a great man like Mahatma Gandhi, he comments that "Kurukṣetra means this body. Kurukṣetra means this body." Now, wherefrom he got this meaning, "Kurukṣetra means this body," which is that dictionary, I do not know. But he has interpreted in that way. Similarly, in Dr. Radhakrishnan's book also the translation is... Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "My dear Arjuna, you just always think of Me, you just become My devotee, you just offer your all obeisances unto Me, and the result will be that you'll come to Me, without any doubt." That means you'll come to the spiritual planets.
We have got conception that Mahatma Gandhi, a great politician, he is called mahātmā. But in the Bhagavad-gītā the definition of mahātmā is different. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: (BG 9.13) "One who is mahātmā, he is not under the control of this material nature. He is under the protection of the spiritual nature." Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. And what is the difference between a person under the spell of this material nature and one person under the protection of spiritual nature? That is also stated there, that mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanti mām ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). The test whether a man is under the protection or under the punishment of this material nature or he is under the protection of spiritual nature is tested in this line.
We have got four deficiencies. We commit mistakes, we become illusioned... We commit mistake, everyone knows. I have several times talked that even a personality like Gandhi, he committed so many mistakes. So, so long you are conditioned by the material nature, you must commit mistake. There is no escape. Similarly, we are illusioned. Illusioned means we accept something for something. Just like you are accepting this body—"I am American," "I am Indian"—but I am neither American nor Indian; I am spirit soul. This is called illusion. Bhrama, pramāda, and vipralambha. Vipralambha means the propensity for cheating others.
This is the movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone is a servant, but he is serving wrongly. His service is misplaced. We are simply educating people that "Your service being misplaced; therefore you are not satisfied, neither your master is satisfied. Nobody's satisfied." For example... I have repeated this example many times. Even Mahatma Gandhi, the great servant of India He served India so nicely. Still, the master was not satisfied, and the master killed him. He wanted to serve his country, but the result was that his countrymen killed him.
Just like in India we have experienced during British days. There were Hindu-Muslim riots. So the Hindus would go to the mosque of the Muslim and break it, and the Muslim would go the temples of the Hindus and break the idol. And they'll think that "We have finished Hindu's God." Just like Hindus also think, "Oh, we have broken their mosque. Therefore I have broken their God." These are foolishness. In another case... I have got experience. When there was, I mean to say, noncooperation movement of Gandhi's, the people became riotous, and they began to break anything government, especially the post boxes on the street. They thought by breaking the post boxes they are finishing the post office.
Perhaps you have heard the name, this word, mahātmā. Our leader, Mahatma Gandhi, he was known as mahātmā. But mahātmā is not the title of a politician. Mahātmā, here, mahātmā means the first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious man who is eligible to enter into the abode of Kṛṣṇa. He is called mahātmā. Mahātmānaḥ. And the mahātmānas' perfection is this, to prepare in this life, in this nice human form of life with all facilities of nature... We can command over the nature. We can utilize the nature to our best interest. The animals cannot.
But this culture is lost. Now unless one is shot dead, he would not leave family life. (laughter) Even Mahatma Gandhi, he got independence and everything; still he would not leave. So he was shot dead. This is our position. All politicians, all big big men, they are not going to retire, stuck up. This is not civilization. When one is young, he can remain with family, wife, children, twenty-five to fifty years. That's all. No more. Give up. Then take vānaprastha. Train up yourself for becoming sannyāsī. Then take sannyāsa simply for understanding God. That is sannyāsa. You can take sannyāsa from the very beginning, but if it is not possible, at least at the fag end of your life everyone should take sannyāsa and completely devote in understanding the science of God. That is called sannyāsa.
Mahatma Gandhi, he was a great worker for national emancipation. You have heard his name. But at the end he was so much disgusted—that I have seen personally—wherever he used to go, he used to plug his ears like this. Why? Now, wherever he would go, thousands of people would gather and will cry, "Mahatma Gandhi ki jaya!" So the poor fellow could not sleep even. The person, as soon as there is some scent that "Mahatma Gandhi is coming here," at least five thousand people will gather and will cry, "Mahatma Gandhi ki jaya." So at the last stage of his life he could not sleep due to this crying. Just see. And he was so much disgusted, the very morning when he was, I mean to say, assassinated—he was killed by bullet shot—he said to his secretary, "I am so disgusted, I wish to die." You see. This very word was published in the paper.
Wealth, strength, and then fame. If a man is very famous, just take any famous man of the world, if he comes in this room, oh, thousands of people will come here. When Gandhi was alive I read one news from the newspaper in India that in some Italian city, there was great crowd, innumerable people gathered in the station. And nobody could understand why these people are assembled here. So when they are asked, they replied that, "We have heard that Gandhi is coming here." Mahatma Gandhi, perhaps you heard his name. He was very famous man, politician. So actually the news they are published that one, there was one Mr. Glandi. So he was coming. And people misunderstood as Gandhi. So my point is that a famous man also attracts. These things are attraction, richness, wealth, and strength, and famous, fame.
Therefore this land was, American land, was there before your coming from Europe, your forefathers. And your forefathers have left. Mr. Washington, George Washington, he left. Many others who developed this land of America, they have left. Here or there. In France there was Napoleon Bonaparte, in Germany there was Kaiser, and in our country there was Gandhi or somebody else. So they come here. They falsely declare as enjoyer. But actually they are not enjoyer. They're kicked out. They come to enjoy the nature, but the nature kicks them out. This is the fact.
This is knowledge. This is called brahma-jñāna. If anyone understands the simple thing, that "I am not this body..." But education is given, "No, I am this body." This nationalism, this nationalism also the same mistake, but they are fighting so much. Great, great, big, big men. In this country, Napoleon fought. In Germany, Hitler fought. And so many others, in our country Gandhi fought. But he is in ignorance. All these big big leaders, they are ignorance, andha, blind. Blind. They do not know that he is not this body and neither this land belongs to him. But they fight. The whole history of the world means this mistaken idea. "I" and "mine."
f you take something to your choice, that is useless, useless waste of time. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. How it is possible? Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield. So in this way, if we try to understand Bhagavad-gītā, it will be not Bhagavad-gītā, it will be something else. We must understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our preaching method. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is all over the world. So we accept.
One who is intelligent, he comes to the senses and he understands that "I had been servant of kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, like that. So I have served them, but nobody is satisfied. Nobody is satisfied. (break) ...teṣāṁ na trapā na karuṇā jātā... They are not satisfied. You go on serving. Even Mahatma Gandhi. He was serving his country, but he was killed by his countrymen. It is a fact. So you cannot satisfy. Who can give more service than Mahatma Gandhi. But the, what was the return? The return was that his countrymen killed him. This is the return. You go on serving your senses in the name of your country, society, family... They'll never be satisfied. And as soon as there is possibility, they'll kill you. So why should you be so much serious about serving other than Kṛṣṇa? That is sense. Better serve Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll learn.
This jagat, akhilaṁ jagat, is nothing but manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Parabrahman is Kṛṣṇa. We may be Brahman... Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, therefore we are Brahman. Now we are identifying with this matter. So mukti means when we stop identifying with this matter and we learn how to realize ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Simply realization not. To act as Brahman, Brahman, that is perfection of knowledge. Not to simply realize. Just like for example a person he feels that "I am Indian." That is very good. But Mahatma Gandhi, he also was Indian, but he acted as a first-class Indian. Therefore Mahatma Gandhi is so much adored.
Just like Gandhi introduced this nonviolence. That is material calculation. It is all right. To become nonviolent is good qualification. But from spiritual calculation... Spiritual calculation means that surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa and then act. The difference between bhakti-yoga and ordinary karma is this: that when one's senses are purified under the direction of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, that is bhakti. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. What is bhakti? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to become purified, sarvopādhi-vinirmukta. At the present moment we are encumbered with different types of designations. "I am Indian," "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." They are all upādhis. But when one comes to the understanding that "I am eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is liberation.
Actually they are rascals because they cannot see. Recently, what was the Gandhi's statement? That "I do not believe that there was Kṛṣṇa ever lived." That's it, "ever lived. Kṛṣṇa is of my imagination." He said like that. This is going on. All the ācāryas, they accepted. Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava: (BG 10.14) "Your personality, nobody can understand." There is person before him, and he is such a big man. He says that "It is imagination." This is going on. If... Science should be as other such study. Two plus two, mathematic calculation, that is four. You cannot say it is five or three by interpretation or by imagination. Two plus two is equal to four. You accept or not accept; that is a different thing. So it is a science. You have to accept according to the direction given. Then you will have this real thing.
Just like Gandhi refused to take justice from the British court. That was his one of the items. He said that "There is no justice. So we shall deny to take any judgement from the British Court." That was his, one of the items. He never... When he was prosecuted, he never defended. He said, "Why shall I defend? There is no justice here. Why shall I spend my money for defending? No, you can do whatever you like. You are in power." Gandhi did always like that. "Here is no justice, so why shall I plead for justice?" That was Gandhi's philosophy, noncooperation. Whenever he was arrested, he will simply stand. That's all. Of course, he was given a seat. Such a big man, the court would offer him a seat. But he will never plead yes or no. "No, whatever you like, you can do. I don't expect justice from you." That was Gandhi's... He'll never plead. And all his followers did that. Therefore they were all sent jail. And by going to jail they got svarāja. And he declared, jail svarāja ke mandira hai: "If you want to get svarāja, independence, you must be prepared to go to jail."
The more one suffered imprisonment, he is given more exalted post. Not only jail, in the jail they were beaten very severely. Some of them were given poison. So many big, big leaders, they died just coming out of jail. They were given slow poison. C. R. Dasa, Jyotindra Mohan, Sen Gupta. And the Gandhi, therefore, he would not take any food from the jail. He would carry his one goat, and take the milk of the goat and some cāpāṭis made, two cāpāṭis and a little peanuts. That's all. He would not accept anything from the jail. Because he knew that "These men can give me poison." Actually they gave so many people slow poison, and they died. Just after coming back from the jail they died.
Just like in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he also, he was here. He gave so much service. He gave service in India. But what was the return? The return was he was killed by his countrymen. This is the return, practical. The return was that he wanted to establish nonviolence, and his countrymen proved that nonviolence cannot go on—"You must die by violence." This is material world, that however you may render service to your family, to your country, to your friend, to anyone, you will never be satisfied. Rather, when he is dissatisfied he will kill you. This is material world. So my occupational duty is to render service to somebody, but I cannot satisfy that somebody. This is material world. You go on giving service, but you will never be able to satisfy to the person to whom you are giving service. This is material world.
Who can give better service than Mahatma Gandhi? Who can become such honest man, ideal man. He was addressed as mahātmā. Still, his service was not recognized. He was killed. So that is the result of material service. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that, "This kind of service rendering will never satisfy you, neither the party will be satisfied. You give up all this wrong engagement; you give service to Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "Then I will give up so many duties I have got?" "Yes, you can give up." "No, I will be involved in sinful activities because I am giving all, others service." "Yes." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: "I shall give you protection. Don't bother. Don't worry." This is the sum and substance of the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, and you have to learn it. Then our life will be successful.
Just like if you say, "I am Indian," so there is no harm. But you cannot say that you are as big, as powerful as Indira Gandhi. She is also Indian. Similarly, you may become Brahman, but you cannot become Param Brahman. That is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Similarly, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this body, I am not this material form. I have got my spiritual identity." That is called ahaṁ brahmāsmi. And when one understands this fact, that he is not this material body, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Without understanding this: jīva-bhūta.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
In our country, big leaders like Gandhi and others, they came and went away. They thought "If the Britishers go away, then our problems will be solved," but actually there is no solution of problem. There is Pakistan problem, this problem, that problem. So many problems. So in this way we cannot solve our problems. The problems can be solved if we endeavor for developing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then problems will be solved. Otherwise there is no problem.
Everyone whimsically, he is interpreting. Sometimes in our country also, we see that Mahatma Gandhi wanted to interpret Bhagavad-gītā as nonviolence. It is very difficult to prove, because Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. (laughs) So how you can prove nonviolence? So it is a difficult job. So that is not the process of understanding Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is to be understood, as our Swamiji immediately talked, that it has to be received from the paramparā system.
Prasannātmā means joyful stage, no more anxiety. We are full of anxiety on account of our material conception of life, unnecessarily. So many leaders came and gone. So long they were living, they were always concerned. In our country... Just like Mahātmā Gandhi, he came, big leader. Or in other countries, Churchill came or Hitler came. So long they were living, they were always anxiety, full of anxiety, fighting with one another. Now they are not existing. What is the loss there? But unnecessarily they were busy, that "Without me, my country will be finished, and this will be vanquished." Unnecessarily.
ust like in the prison house, if sometimes the governor goes to inspect and the prisoners think, "Oh, now governor is also one of us. He has become prisoner..." Just like Mahatma Gandhi went to the prison house, and the pickpocket, if he thinks, "Now Mahatma Gandhi is also one of us," this is wrong. This is wrong. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Because he is mūḍha, the pickpocket, he is thinking that "Mahatma Gandhi is also like me." Or "The governor, he has come into the prison house; therefore he is also like one of us." No. Out of his mercy, he comes.
We are seeking after aristocratic society's association, to become big man, but these Gosvāmīs, although they were ministers, they decided, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati..., sadā tuccha-vat. Then what did they become? Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau: "For the benefit of whole human society, they took the mendicant's dress." Just like in our political movement, Mahatma Gandhi also took the mendicant's dress, loincloth, these Gosvāmīs also... That is Indian culture.
Everything is going on under the influence of different modes of material nature. Just like in our country, when Gandhi was living, he got sva-rājya, but still, he was thinking he had to do something, he had to do something. And he did not separate from politics. He was old man. He should have retired, but he did not, unless he was killed by somebody. This is the attachment for material things. All these leaders, they think, "Without me, the country will go to hell." But so many leaders came and gone. The country is going on. Therefore, in the Bengali it is said, rāja mare, rājya acara. "Because the king has died, therefore kingdom will stop." That is not the... It, it will go on. Why do you bother? That is knowledge. Kṛṣṇa is taking care. You just engage yourself in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is your duty.
Just like our whole state has become secular state. No more interested. Here is our Bhagavad-gītā. Gandhi started his movement with Bhagavad-gītā. The big, big politician, Aravinda, he studied Bhagavad-gītā. And Tilaka, he studied Bhagavad-gītā. Now, in our schools and colleges, if there is question of studying Bhagavad-gītā, the state will not allow. Is it not? They... So māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Such a cultural book, such a book of knowledge, great book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā, they're banned. It is banned. And if you present Bhagavad-gītā with some nonsense commentary, that will be sold. And when you speak Bhagavad-gītā as it is... Of course, factually, now we are getting ground. Our Bhagavad-gītā is selling more than other editions, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
You have heard. Mr. C. R. Das, Gandhi's lieutenant, he gave up his practice. In those days he was..., fifty years ago he was earning fifty thousand rupees. So that is not joke. So he became mendicant. All Gandhi's followers, they became mendicant. Without becoming mendicant, you cannot do any welfare activities. That is the Vedic process, sannyāsa. So but he could not live. After giving up his job as a lawyer, he could not live for more than one year, because he was living very opulently and all of a sudden he became a mendicant. He could not tolerate. That we have seen. But here we see that the Gosvāmīs, they were also very big men, ministers, but how they lived? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau, gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī. Gopī-bhāva. They were living simply by thinking of the ecstatic love of gopīs.
Just like an ideal good man was Gandhi. Or somebody else. We are giving because Gandhi's respected all over the world as a very good man. That's a fact. But that is not sufficient. That is not sufficient. Therefore the śāstra says that you should become free from becoming a good man or bad man. You must become a devotee. That is required. To become a good man of this world is not a very good qualification. Therefore it is said here, naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. To become bad man... And if you become a good man, it is partially acceptable, because you have avoided the two other things, namely ignorance and passion. But that is not sufficient. But it is favorable. To become a good man, to become a brāhmaṇa, is favorable.
Sometimes in the year 1950 or '51 I went to Jhansi, and it happened so that the..., the friend in whose house I was staying, he was a leader, and there was a meeting for Gandhi's disappearance day. So I was asked to speak. At that time I was not sannyāsī. I was asked to speak something on nonviolence. So I explained that violence means if you have got some right and if somebody by force stops you to utilize your right, that is violence. That is violence. I have got some right to take something, so, or enter in some room, and, if somebody checks me by force, that "You cannot enter," that is violence and it is criminal.
So Hare Kṛṣṇa, these two words or sixteen words or three words, it will be appealed. It will appeal to the devotees, to the great souls. But if you organize a great political meeting, they'll not go there. Just like in our country we have seen the Mahatma Gandhi was given the title mahātmā. You can give your, any title. Nobody objects. Just like in Bengali we say kānā-locana nyāya padma-locana(?). Padma-locana means very beautiful, lotus-eyed. But one mother has got a child who is born blind. Out of her love she has given the name Padma-locana, "lotus-eyed." You see? So that she can give because she loves the child. Even he is blind, that's her whim. "My boy, my child is padma-locana." Similarly, this "mahātmā," this title you can give to any person you like, but it has a meaning, "mahātmā."
He has no other business except Kṛṣṇa. That is mahātmā. That is explained in the Bhagavad... So we, the people gave a title, this Gandhi, a politician. His business was how to get independence politically. He was given the title mahātmā. So this mahātmā, when there was meeting, hundreds of thousand people gathered. But no... Actually, there are persons in India who are called sādhus, sādhu-samāja. A great number. Not, I mean to say, a small number. They are three million in India still. There is statistics. Three millions persons who are in renounced order of... Sādhu, they are called sādhu. They do not come. So these three millions mahātmās, those who are engaged, they may be, some of them may be impersonalists, some of them may be yogis, some of them are devotees. That doesn't matter, because they are also engaged in understanding the Absolute Truth.
So it is a question of degrees of spiritual understanding. So there are three million serious sādhus in India. None of them ever attended such Mahatma Gandhi's meeting, neither they invited Mahatma Gandhi. No. They never never recognized, recognized. Because what they have got to do with these political affairs? Just like... They know, this is the business of the crows. The crows will take interest in such meeting. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). What these politicians will do? They'll simply make plan. That's all. Hitler will make one plan, Mussolini will make one plan, Churchill will make another plan. Your Roosevelt will make another plan, Gandhi will make another. Simply planmaking business. They will never be able to bring any peace and prosperity in the world. That is not possible. Because it is under the grip of māyā.
Just like Gandhi. He wanted to prove his nonviolence some way or other from Bhagavad-gītā. How he can prove? This is the same thing, that he was finding out, "If there is something, simply cutting the head, if I can get egg?" That is not possible. That is not... If we have to accept Bhagavad-gītā just like Arjuna says, that sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava: (BG 10.14) "My dear Kṛṣṇa, Keśava, whatever You are saying, I accept in toto. And this is confirmed by such authorities like Devala, Vyāsa, Asita. It is not that because we are friends, I am accepting You, but I know it is confirmed by such great authorities like Nārada, Asita, Vyāsa."
One Doctor Rele(?) in Bombay, he has also explained Bhagavad-gītā in his own way. He says that it is a talk between a diseased person, a patient, and the physician. Because he is physician, he has made Kṛṣṇa as physician. Of course, Kṛṣṇa is physician in other way. But he has tried to explain the medical science through the Bhagavad-gītā-anatomy, physiology, medicine, like that. Just like Gandhi, he wanted to prove Bhagavad-gītā as nonviolence. In this way, everyone is trying. But actually who is understanding Kṛṣṇa? That is being explained by Nārada, that "In this way, people will misunderstand. You simply apply, simply write and explain the science of Kṛṣṇa."
If everyone denies to be, serve, then these so-called industries will fail. Immediately. That is Gandhi's proposal. "Noncooperate with the British government, and it will wind up." And actually so happened. Because people are now śūdras, they depend for their bread to others, the others exploit them: "Come here. You work and I shall give you bread." They do not believe any more, "O God, give us our daily bread." They think that "This, our master give us daily bread." That is śūdra. Śūdra means one who is dependent on others. Paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam. This is the description, definition of śūdra. And vaiśya: kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). The vaiśya is doing the kṛṣi, agriculture. Why he should depend on...? Take some land from the government. You produce your food. Where is the difficulty? Keep some cows. You get milk. Vaiśya-karma svabhāva... Go-rakṣya. If you have got excess, then make trade. Why you should depend on others?
Just like for sex life there is concession, similarly, for meat-eater also, there is concession. And for drunkards there is concession. Not impractical. Supposing one is drunkard, meat-eater, if I say all of a sudden, "Stop it," if he is not sober, he will not accept it. Just like in India there was prohibition. Gandhi, by his sentiment... There was no, I mean to say, education. He wanted to make all of a sudden stop. So there was illicit drinking. Illicit manufacture of wine increased so much that government saw that "We are losing the excise duty. These people are distilling illicit liquor." So now government, to save money, now they are manufacturing and inducing people, "All right, you go on drinking."
Just like to remain in the prison house means criminal. You may be a first-class prisoner, it doesn't matter, but you are a prisoner. You are a criminal. Sometimes the big, big politicians, they are put into the jail and they're given all comforts. But that does not mean he's not a criminal. He's a criminal. Either he may be Gandhi or anyone, because he's put into the jail he's a criminal. Similarly, anyone who is enwrapped with this material body, he's a criminal. He's a criminal. Either he may be in the heavenly planet or in this earthly planet or in the cats' and dogs' life or insect or aquatics. There are varieties of life. Every one of us, as long as we are put into this material body, it is to be understood that we are all criminal.
The Englishmen, in an organized way, they taught the Indians how to become servant of the Englishmen. We have seen. It is Gandhi's movement that he dismantled this idea of white prestige. Otherwise, we were taught like that. So this imitation of Englishmen... Formerly, in our childhood, it was the advancement of civilization if one could imitate the English fashion. That was. So we should not make that a fashion. Guru is not a fashion.
One big politician in Calcutta, C.R. Das. He was earning fifty thousand monthly. In those days. Fifty thousand means... I am speaking... He died in 1925. That means fifty years ago he was earning fifty thousand per month. Now fifty thousand means fifty lakhs nowadays. He was so rich man. But on the Congress resolution that the prominent members of the Congress, they should not cooperate with the government... And one of the item of noncooperation was they should not practice in the British court because there is no justice. That was Gandhi's order, that "In the British court there is no justice. So why should you go there? Don't go." So this C.R. Das, on the resolution of the Congress... He was one of the prominent members. He gave up. So he had no income. So he had no income. The Congress was giving him five hundred rupees, pocket expenses. Because he was such a rich man.
So I was given place just in front of the room where Gandhi was imprisoned. That, that room is considered as sacred. So government makes such arrangement that "These prisoners may be corrected." Similarly, in this material world, although we are all condemned... Anyone who is within this material world, he is condemned. Simply there is division. Just like in jail also, there are first-class prisoners, there are second-class prisoners and third-class prisoners. The first-class prisoners, they are given some facilities. Just like political prisoners, they are given separate bungalow and servants, newspaper, book. But they cannot go out of the prison. That is called first class. Similarly, there are second class. And third class, ordinary.
So people are so rascal, they do not come even to see. They are so fallen down. They do not come. "Oh, what is this, Deity worship? Idol worship. Idol worship." They will worship Gandhi's statue and this statue, that statue, but when they are asked that "Come here and see the Deity worship nicely," "No, this is idol worship." We... I have seen in Calcutta that Sir Asutosh Mukherjee's statue there is in the Chowrangi square. So in the morning, these ordinary sweepers, they'll cleanse the statue with their brush, because the whole year, the crows have passed stool on the face. So it has become a very solid stool, fixed up. So... I have seen it, brushing like this. This is their arcanam. This is allowed. And if you worship the Deity, bathe the Deity, this is idol worship.
Just like now, New Delhi, there is industry. Every town has got industrial area, and big, big industries are flourishing. Especially when you go from Vṛndāvana side to New Delhi, the first big industry we see—that Goodyear Tire, very big factory. So people are being dragged there that "Come here. You'll get good salary. Why you are working in the field so hard? Come here. You'll get good salary, and..." So they go. But the result is that they are not happy. And when they are not happy, they are, I mean, induced to take wine and meat. In this way, whole world... India, it was not there. Gandhi's movement was to stop this wine, flesh, and as we are prohibiting. But at the present moment, the government is encouraging. It is very regrettable.
So this inquiry should be there. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to enthuse people to make this inquiry. Just like political leaders: they were sleeping, and Gandhi and other political leaders, they made agitation that "Why you shall remain dependent on this British ruling?" Just like, similar... It is not like that. It is an example. Our movement is that, that "You are eternal. Why you should rot in this material world where there is no question of eternity? Everything is temporary." Everything is temporary. So how we can attain that eternity?
Just like a big politician, Gandhi, he also has Bhagavad-gītā in his hand, but he never spoke throughout his whole life that Kṛṣṇa is worshipable. He never spoke. Have you seen that he has advised that Kṛṣṇa is worshipable? Never. Dr. Radhakrishnan, he is also so big scholar. He has commented on Bhagavad-gītā. Rather, he says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." When Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." That is the difficulty. Because they have no mercy of Kṛṣṇa upon them, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. But they are not bhaktas.
Just like our Mahatma Gandhi started nonviolence in politics. So that was a political policy, but in politics there is no question of nonviolence, in politics. That is foolishness. Actually, India gained independence not by nonviolence. That is a great history. India gained independence... Gandhi was fighting with nonviolence for thirty, thirty-five years; there was no result. But one of the leaders, when he, I mean to say, ensued fighting, then within, I think, within one year the Britishers left. So in politics there is no question of nonviolence. So a king, a protector, kṣatriya... Kṣatriya means kṣat... Kṣat means injury, injury. And tra, tra means deliver. So a kṣatriya's business is to deliver a person who is going to be injured. That is kṣatriya. Just like this cow was going to be injured, and as soon as Mahārāja Parīkṣit saw it, he immediately took his sword to kill him. So this is kṣatriya.
Just see. Not that some way or other, you divide India: "Let me become Prime Minister, that's all." We have got political information that in India when it was..., the proposal was for partition, Gandhi was completely against this partition. He said, "Better I will have no independence; still, I shall not allow the country to be divided." He was stubborn on this point. But he was absent, and in the meantime our, the big Prime Minister signed it, agreed, partition because he wanted to be prime minister anyway, some way or other. "Let the country go to hell." This is politician, going on.
Religious fight means you have got right to kill your aggressor. If somebody takes your property, if somebody sets fire in your house, if somebody kidnaps your wife, or somebody is trying to kill you, they are called aggressor. So aggressor should be killed immediately. It is not that somebody has become an aggressor, and if I say, "Now I have become a Vaiṣṇava, I'll not be violent. I shall tolerate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us to be tolerant like the tree or the grass. So I shall become tolerant. Let him do." Just like Gandhi used to say. Somebody questioned him that "If somebody comes and violates the chastity of your daughter in your presence, what will you do?" He said, "I shall remain nonviolent." But that is not śāstric injunction. This is foolishness.
Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has recommended, therefore, one should learn Bhāgavatam from a person who knows Vedānta-sūtra. Śruti-gṛhītayā, bhaktyā śruti-gṛhītayā. Bhakti should be generated, śruti-gṛhītayā, by studying Vedānta-sūtra. Bhakti is not sentiment. Bhakti is the transcendental science. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, jñānī viśiṣyate(?). You should be in full knowledge what is Kṛṣṇa, not that accepting Kṛṣṇa as something fictitious. Even big, big scholars—Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi—they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. How they can understand? It is not understandable by the fools and rascals.
The children, five or ten years old, they are also making small dolls, small dolls. Because by tradition, by family, the father is making doll, the mother is making doll, and the children also learning. Similarly, the weaver, you will find. You supply the... Still there are this system. You supply. Gandhi wanted to introduce this system. You produce your thread and give to the weaver, and waver will give you cloth. Why you are looking after this Manchester cloth? By this movement...
So one bābājī, he organized saṅkīrtana, Hare Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana. When there was no other way, so he organized saṅkīrtana all over Calcutta. And in the, in saṅkīrtana, all people, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Parsi, everyone joined. And they were coming, they were going road to road, street to street, entering in every house. So that Mahatma Gandhi Road, 151, you have seen. The saṅkīrtana party we received very nicely. There was light, and I was very small, I was also dancing, I can remember. Just like our small children sometimes dances. I remember. I could see only up to the knees of the persons who were joined. So the plague subsided. This is a fact. Everyone who knows history of Calcutta, the plague was subsided by saṅkīrtana movement.
Recently in Ahmedabad when I was visiting, the prison authorities also invited us for kīrtana. So I saw the criminals, prisoners. Savarmati. Savarmati jail, yes, where Gandhi was also imprisoned during the political movement. So Gandhi's room, where Gandhi was staying they showed me, and I sat down there. So, there is very good arrangement for the comforts of the prisoners, if they abide by the laws. Similarly, although this material world is just like prison house, prison house, we living entities, we have come here as punishment.
Whenever you are perplexed, you read Bhagavad-gītā you will immediately get relief. That's a fact. Gandhi also said that. Gandhi was a politician. Although he could not understand Bhagavad-gītā neither he could understand Kṛṣṇa, still, he said that "When I read, I get great relief." He was always very busy, so many political problems always coming. So there was no spiritual understanding of these politicians. Sometimes they take the spiritual shelter, so-called, for getting some benefit out of it so that his political movement may be increased or enhanced. So we do not wish to discuss, but Bhagavad-gītā, even if you read without any actual knowledge of the Bhagavad-gītā, still, you will feel relief.
Just like Gandhi speculated, "I do not believe that ever any person like Kṛṣṇa lived." Do you know that? This is Gandhi's statement, and he is mahātmā. The mahātmā's definition is there in the Bhagavad-gītā: mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). That is mahātmā, not to take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā. Of course, there are... So we do not want to criticize anyone, but sometimes it so happens. Big, big scholars, big, big politicians, they misguide people. That is the position of India. So many big, big leaders and politician and so-called swamis and yogis, they have exploited people by bluffing, and now India's position is: it is neither spiritual nor material. (laughter) That's all.
Kaupīna-kanthāśritau, loincloth only, minimizing the bodily necessities of life. Bhūtvā. Because they were prepared, dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā, to give mercy to the mass of people. Mass of people. If you become so much dependent on the bodily necessities of life, then you cannot become fully and wholly for the benefit of the mass of people. Our Gandhi, he imitated this. For the mass of people... But that was to extent, to a certain extent successful. But it was political purpose. It was political purpose. These things are not for any material purpose. Then it will be failure. If you imitate spiritual life for material benefit, then it will be failure.
Just like the, our Gandhi in India. He was preaching nonviolence. Nonviolence. So some Hindus approached him, "Sir, you are preaching nonviolence. These Muhammadans, they are killing cows, so why don't you ask them to stop, nonviolence?" So he replied, "Oh, this is their religion. How can I stop?" What is this nonsense? If you believe in philosophy of nonviolence, one may say that "This is my religion," that you cannot indulge in that? If somebody says, just like state is neutral to religion, if somebody says, "My religion is to cut throat," the state will allow, "Go on with your religion. Yes, it is your religion"? Will the state allow? No.
In India also, we have seen. So many big, big politicians, they could not give up their political job. Even Gandhi. I wrote a personal letter to Gandhi that "Mahatma Gandhi, you are recognized all over the world as a very pious man, and you are supposed to be very devotee of Bhagavad-gītā. Now you have got your independence. You fought for independence. Now you have got your independence. So I request you to take the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā to preach all over the world." That was my request. Because I was thinking of preaching this Bhagavad-gītā. So I thought that "Gandhi's position is better. If he takes up this job, preaching of Bhagavad-gītā, many people will give attention. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). He is a recognized good man, so people will follow." But he did not do so. He stuck up to the politics. And unless he was killed by another opponent party, he did not give it up.
Suppose Mr. Henry's children. They do not know. Not only they, everyone. Politicians, their statue is worshiped, but nobody knows where that Mr. Napoleon, Mr. Washington, Mr. Gandhi has gone. They do not know. They are worshiping the material statue. That's all. Ignorance. Bhūtejyā. It is called bhūtejyā. One of our big politician, Indian politician, some astrologer said that "He has become a dog in Scandinavia." But you cannot deny. You cannot deny. If you believe... First of all you have to believe that the soul transmigrates. That's a fact. That we are doing every day, every minute... Simply it requires little brain. Dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dhīra means sober.
That is responsible king. Not that "They want to drink, and we can levy tax for drinking." Because by, I mean to say, encouraging people drinking... That we see in India now. Gandhi's started his movement on this basis. Nobody could drink even tea. At least amongst his associates, nobody could drink even tea. No cigarette. Gandhi was very strict. And of course, he could not prohibit, but he was also against illicit sex, drinking, gambling. But he prohibited. He introduced prohibition in so many states. But now government is encouraging. Government is giving license, "Yes, openly you can drink." Kali's influence. Meat-eating.
Just like in India, we manufacture some mahātmā. But according to śāstra, he is not mahātmā because he was-Mahatma Gandhi, I mean to say—he was not on the platform of knowledge. He was on the platform of karma, karmī. He wanted to deliver his countrymen from the clutches of the British, Britishers. That was his aim. But because he was not jñānī, he could not understand that "Why I am trying to drive away some people for the benefit of another?" That is a great subject matter.
Just like in the prison house, anyone, he may be Gandhi or he may be a small pickpocket, anyone who is in the prison house, it is to be considered that he is criminal. He is a criminal in the eyes of the government. We may worship Gandhi, that's all right, or any political leader, but government think that he is a criminal. Similarly, we have to accept the government's decision. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's decision. Kṛṣṇa's decision is that anyone who is in this material world, beginning from Brahmā down to the small ant, some way or other, they are criminal.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyaḥ: "If you surrender to Me... Because you have rebelled against Me. Rebelling against Me, you have come to this material world to enjoy. So I have given you all chances. I have given you chance to become Brahmā, to become Indra or become Candra, to become Nixon, to become Gandhi, to become Jawaharlal Nehru, to become ant, to become cat, to become dog. I have given you all chances, and you have enjoyed. But you are not satisfied. Now, if you have got sense, just surrender to Me."
Take big big leaders in our country or any country. They are absorbed in nationalism, cannot give up the post of prime ministership, presidentship or leadership. Even great leader like Gandhi. He was always... He got sva-rājya. I wrote him letter: "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got respect as a religious personality. If you..." (aside:) Don't bother, don't... "If you take preaching these things, what I am doing, preach Bhagavad-gītā... You are also lover of Bhagavad-gītā." No. Even after getting sva-rājya, he was implicated. Unless he was killed he would not leave it. Everyone has to leave it, voluntarily or by force, but they will not leave it voluntarily.
In our country, Gandhi promised that "I shall give you independence in one year, if you follow me—non-violence, non-cooperation." People followed, but it took thirty years. But actually, that is not independence. So these politicians, especially, they mislead us. Not only politicians, the so-called yogis, so-called... So many things. Real leader is Kṛṣṇa. So if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), "Give up all other occupation, duties. Simply just surrender unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. "Don't hesitate. Do it." Kṛṣṇa is personally canvassing. He's so kind. He comes personally. He speaks the whole truth in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Recently, Indira Gandhi's party became powerful. So all other men, giving resignation from other party, they took into the party of Indira Gandhi. So it is like that, merging into the existence of the powerful. So the frustrated karmīs, frustrated karmīs, when they do not find any happiness even by becoming the greatest or the topmost person, he wants to become one with God. Therefore it is said, brahma-varcasa-kāmas tu. Brahma-varcasa means effulgence. But it is kāma. That is not akāma. But a devotee is akāma, there is no kāma. He has no personal desires. His desire is only to remain eternal servant of God. That's all. That is his position.
All these politicians, we have seen. Gandhi, in our country. Jarwahal Nehru. He was attacked, heart attack, several times, and doctor says, "Within a week, you'll have to go away." Still, he was going to the hillside to recoup his health. And when he was on the point of death, he was brought to New Delhi and died. So up to the point of death he was thinking that "I must remain a prime minister; otherwise the whole thing will be lost. In my absence, if I am not on the seat, then everything will be lost."
This is māyā. Gandhi was thinking like that. He agitated his political movement against the British rule. So Britishers went away. I requested him that "Now you have got sva-rājya, and you are so respectable in the world. You take this propaganda, to preach Bhagavad-gītā." No. He'll still stick to these politics. Unless he was killed. He was killed, you know. So this is the propensity, sarva-kāmaḥ. There is no end of their desire, no end. They are called sarva-kāmaḥ. So here it is recommended: akāmaḥ... Just the opposite. Akāmaḥ, niṣkiñcana. They have finished all these nonsense, material desires. Vaiṣṇava. Just like you have taken sannyāsa. It is supposed that you have finished all your material desires. This is called akāmaḥ, just the opposite.
You see. This is their intelligence. This is their intelligence. And our Indian people are also imitating. I have seen one statue of Sir Asutosh Mukherjee. He was a very respectable man. Or Gandhi. The whole year, the crows passed stool on the face. It becomes covered with stool. And the day of their anniversary the municipal washing brush, street , they brush over the..., in the morning. (laughter) They brush over the... Because the gene..., gentlemen will go, they have to call some sweeper. So he will brush the face of Sir Asutosh Mukherjee and wash, and then in the evening-big garland. In the morning it was washed with municipal brush, and in the evening there is big garland.
To realize Kṛṣṇa and go back to Him, that should be our main business. But these karmīs, they do not know what is the mission of this human form of life. They are busy working hard, day and night, for a morsel of grass. That's all. Yan maithunādi-gṛha... There are many other verses. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). So śāstra, intelligence, knowledge, means one should study everything very critically, "What is my position? What is my duty?" We should not be like the animals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. Now we have got our great personalities, leaders. They are praised, eulogized, our, these political leaders. "Our Hitler," "Our Gandhi," "Our Churchill," "Our Nixon." But śāstra says these leaders, those who are not spiritual leaders, those who cannot give our life, they are worshiped by these classes of animals, animals. These so-called leaders, politicians, they are eulogized very much by whom? By these class of men: dogs, camels, asses and...
Just like in our country, Mahatma Gandhi rendered so much service to his country that at the end he was killed by his countrymen. Just see. This is the return. Your country also. President Kennedy, he was a nice president, but he was killed. So here in this material world, or māyā, if you render service to māyā, illusion, you'll never be satisfied. Neither the person to whom you are giving service, he'll be satisfied. There is no satisfaction, either to the so-called master or to the servant. Because Kṛṣṇa is missing. That's all. One should understand this.
Everyone is giving service. And apart from master and servant, even in family the man is giving service throughout his whole life, up to the old age. And ask anybody, any member of the family, "You are satisfied?" "No." Just see. Frustration. Gandhi, he gave service to the country to the best capacity, and people appreciated. He was called Mahātmā, so on, so on. But he was killed. He was killed. So here you go on rendering service to your society, country, family or anyone, you cannot satisfy them. It is not possible—they'll never—because the place is like that, insufficiency.
Sometimes we do things which I should not have done. But still, because I want money, because I want to gratify my senses, I give service. Even very sinful service I give. But still, neither I am satisfied, neither the master is satisfied. This is the position. Everyone is trying to give, the politicians or any. Just I have given the example: Gandhi throughout the whole life gave service, but there were some persons who were not satisfied. It is not possible. Therefore the sensible man should consider that "What is the use of this service?" Just like this Vivekananda society, their daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. The daridras are lying on the street, but they collect money in the name of serving the poor, and they live very comfortably—big, big belly. You see. All the sannyāsīs are eating and sleeping and doing everything, all nonsense. But they are collecting money. They have no other source. We don't say that we are collecting money for daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, no. We collect money directly for serving Kṛṣṇa.
So if we accept the statement of Kṛṣṇa, then we understand Kṛṣṇa immediately. Otherwise, by speculation, it is not possible. That is the fact. There are so many... Such a person, such a big, who is estimated as very, very big person, Mahatma Gandhi, he could not understand Kṛṣṇa. From his writing we see. He said, "I don't believe that there was any person Kṛṣṇa living ever." Just see. He could not understand. Similarly, Dr. Radhakrishnan, Tilak, so many big, big scholars, they have written comment on Bhagavad-gītā, but they, still they have proved that they're rascal number one. Because they did not follow the process of understanding Kṛṣṇa, therefore they could not understand. And here even a child, our Śyāmasundara's daughter, (s)he used to go to somebody and ask him, "Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa?" He says, "No, I do not know." "He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Just see. And all these boys and children, they are learning so easily Kṛṣṇa, and a person like Mahatma Gandhi, he said that, something different. You see? Just see. This is the position.
Now we are one, the governor and myself, one..." The pocket, pickpocket, criminal, if he thinks like that, that... Similarly, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Therefore rascals and fools, they think Kṛṣṇa is one of them, the same thing, as the criminal thinks the governor, as... Mahatma Gandhi went to jail, and if a pickpocket thinks that "Now Mahatma Gandhi and myself are the same..." No. Therefore it is said, ātma-māyayā. Mahatma Gandhi went to jail just to show the people: "Now, if you want to drive away the Britishers, so disobey their law, and they will put us into jail, and that jail will be effective." Jail svarājyake mandira hai. Mahatma Gandhi said. That was a policy, not that Mahatma Gandhi had to go to jail; he was a fit (?) for that person. Similarly, this is an example.
Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa or His incarnation comes in this material world, He maintains His position. That, the same thing. Mahatma Gandhi maintained his position. It is not that because Mahatma Gandhi went to jail, he became unpopular and nobody would respect him. No. He is respect was still there. Similarly, when the incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa, He comes, He is not ordinary man. He is not ordinary man. He comes out of His good will. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. The rascals, they do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, and they think that "Kṛṣṇa is like one of us, a human being, like that. He is..." No, that is not Kṛṣṇa understanding.
Just like we got independence. So there was a leader, Mahatma Gandhi. He led the country. Then you came to your national consciousness, and you combined together, and the Britishers went away. The opinion was against them. So there must be leader. And that leader is a person. That leader cannot be an imperson. No. That is not possible. I think there was a news in the newspaper, Free Press Journal, that the faith in personal God is diminishing. That means they are becoming more foolish. The faith in personal God is diminishing, percentage diminishing. That means people are becoming more and more foolish. That is natural. This is Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). The more this age of Kali will increase, people will diminish in their bodily strength, in their memory, in their mercifulness, in so many ways.
Dhūlī means dust, and bhavāmbudhi is water. So if you are thrown into the water, you may be a very big swimmer, but it is a struggle. It is. There is no peace. Therefore in this material world, however expert you may be to deal with this material world, it is simply struggle. You cannot live here peacefully. That is not possible. Even you become nonviolent, if you don't harm anybody... In our country the ideal man was Mahatma Gandhi. Still, he was killed. Just see. This is material world. This is material world. He was doing harm to nobody, but he was killed. So bhavāmbudhi, in this material world, or ocean, you may be very expert in swimming, but that does not mean you'll be peaceful. That is not possible. But if you are taken away from the water even one inch, you'll find peace. Therefore the prayer is tava pāda-paṅkaja-sthita-dhūlī-sadṛśam. Just as from the water, if you are taken one inch up, then you become, you feel relieved, similarly, some way or other, if you become one of the particles of the dust of lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated.
Just like in Bengal, C.R. Das, he had fifty thousand rupees' income in those days, and he gave up everything and joined Gandhi's movement. He died within one year, because he could not tolerate. So without spiritual engagement, one cannot give up this material engagement. That is the real fact. One must... Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati... They gave up this material enjoyment. That's all right. How they lived? Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhuḥ. They dipped into the ocean of the transcendental loving affairs of the gopīs with Kṛṣṇa. That was their asset. Therefore they lived very peacefully and very happily.
Here all activities are done for some material profit. Nobody is... Even the so-called political leaders sacrifice everything. That's all right. But everything is for material benefit. Even in our country a big man like Mahatma Gandhi, he sacrificed everything—his family, his profession. And many other leaders... But what for they were working? They were working for some material benefits, that's all, not for any spiritual benefit. So that is not transcendental activities. That is material activities, expanded material thoughts. Somebody is working for his family or somebody is working for himself, like animals, the cats and dogs. They work for himself. And human being, they're little advanced. They work for family, for wife, children, or, further extended, for society, for community, for nation. You can expand. Even international. They are all material activities, nimittā, simply expanded, expanded. Suppose if you steal for yourself and if you steal for your family or if you steal for your community, that stealing is there. Because you are stealing for greater family, that does not mean that you are not a thief.
We require a leader. Any field of activities, we require a leader. Suppose for getting independence, we had to follow one leader, Mahatma Gandhi. Therefore for guidance we require a leader. And the supreme leader is Kṛṣṇa. So if we follow Kṛṣṇa, the supreme leader, then our life is successful. And if we do not follow... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You rascal, you fool, mūḍha, you just follow Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the whole story of spiritual life. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme leader. He is also a living being, He is also person like you and me, but He is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa. Therefore He is called Bhagavān. We cannot be called Bhagavān because our power is very limited, not pūrṇa. Therefore we become saguṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not become saguṇa.
There are two kinds of atheistic philosophers. One is nirviśeṣa, and the other is śūnyavādi. So my students, therefore, they address, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. So whole world is nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi. Some of them are advocates of zero. There are many big, big philosophers writing on zero. They believe in zero, but they write volumes of books. Why you are wasting time writing volumes of books on zero? After all, if you are going to be zero, remain zero. So zero means disgust. Even Mahatma Gandhi, we have also heard in the paper, in the morning, the day when he was killed, the morning, he was disgusted with so many different opposing elements, letters, and news. So he said that "I don't want to live anymore. It is too much disgusting to me." And the same evening he was killed.
The other day I was reading Gandhi's discourses on Bhagavad-gītā. He said that "I can imagine any way Kṛṣṇa. I do not accept the historical Kṛṣṇa." In this way, so many things. He was a big man. He can say like that. But we cannot imagine or manufacture Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. That is not Kṛṣṇa. God is never imagined or speculated or manufactured by my limited knowledge and limited senses. That is not Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Kṛṣṇa is everything. But if we want to know tattvataḥ Kṛṣṇa, in truth, how Kṛṣṇa has created the pañca-bhūta and how each bhūta or each material element is working, that is being discussed. This is perfect knowledge, tattvataḥ.
In your country, Great Britain, Mr. Churchill, unless he was forced to death, he would not give up politics. Our Gandhi, he was killed by another political group. Then he was forced to retire. When Gandhi attained independence, I requested him in a letter, "Mahatma Gandhi, now you started your struggle with the Britishers, that they should go and Indians should have their independence. Now you have attained independence and Britishers have gone. Now you preach Bhagavad-gītā. You have got some influence. You are known throughout the whole world a very great saintly person, and you also pose yourself that you are a great scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you take up Bhagavad-gītā and preach?" There was no reply. And he was still meddling with politics, so much so that his own assistants became disgusted. And it is said that he was planned to be killed.
Many politicians came and gone. In your country there were many, many great politicians; they came and gone. But your country people are still living and they are going on. In Germany also, many Hitlers came and gone. Similarly, in India also many Gandhis came and gone. But things are going on. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
Everything is being done by the laws of nature. You cannot change it. There is a plan, God's plan. It will go on. You don't have to bother yourself, that without you, everything will be topsy-turvied. No. You cannot do anything. You are falsely thinking that your leadership is very much needed.
So government is also advertising "Go to the village." Actually that is life. Go to the village. Mahatma Gandhi also wanted to organize this life, but unfortunately you have changed. Now we have got place in Hyderabad about six hundred acres of land. We are also trying here. We have already done in Māyāpur. We are producing our own food, our own cloth, own milk, and we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the simplest life. This life is meant for not working like hogs and dogs. That is the instruction. Nayaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1).
So Mr. Jyesthish(?) Gandhi, ladies and gentlemen, the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva is very important. Ṛṣabhadeva was the father of Mahārāja Bhārata, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. So before retirement, Ṛṣabhadeva instructed His one hundred sons about the aim of life. So this is Vedic civilization. So He says, "My dear boys, don't spoil your life by living like hogs." This very word has been used. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Viḍ-bhujāṁ. Viḍ-bhujāṁ means there are hogs who are very much enthusiastic to eat stool. So why this particular animal has been named? Because we can find especially in Indian villages, the hogs, day and night, they are working very hard to find out where there is stool. And as soon as he eats stool, the hog very easily become fatty and strong.
Even we manufacture so many "isms", philanthropism, humanitarianism, nationalism, socialism, so many. But what are these "isms"? That is also sense gratification. I satisfy my senses. I want to see that the senses of my brothers, senses of my sisters, senses of my friends, or senses of my society people, or my nation, countrymen, they are satisfied. The business is sense gratification. Just like in our country we got Mahātmā Gandhi. So he started, he is supposed to be father of the nation. There are many leaders in different countries. But if we, I mean to, take account of their business, it is sense gratification, that's all. Extended sense gratification.
Our so-called society, friendship, love, in this material world, they are all, they are called illusory, phenomenal. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya said, jagan mithyā. He says little bluntly, but actually it has no meaning, because this social condition of life is existent so long this body is there. As soon as I change my body, even in this country We are very much fond of our country, janani janma-bhūmiś ca svargād api gariyasi, but the country is so ungrateful. Suppose There are many vivid examples. Mahatma Gandhi, he worked so much for his country. The result was that he was killed by his countrymen. So, just see the example. So, in this material life, you will never be able to make anyone happy by your activities. That is not possible. Neither you will be happy.
So we have got example in our country, many countries, not only our country, your country also, that President Kennedy, he was killed. Many other presidents also—in our country Gandhi was killed—because in that way, you cannot satisfy everyone. It is not possible. The so called socialism, communism, altruism, humanitarianism, will never be able to satisfy everyone. That is not possible. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ jātā mayi na karuṇā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. These different types of isms, that is simply satisfying different desires. It is not the program.
This human life is meant for rectification. We are serving somebody, and we are not happy. We have got very good example in our country, in many other countries. Just like our Mahātmā Gandhi, he served his country very well, but the result was that his countrymen killed him. This is the result of our service. Nobody will appreciate. We are serving our family. The wife is not satisfied; (s)he divorces the husband. The son is not satisfied; he goes out of home. So just analyze that we are serving to our best capacity, but nobody is satisfied. This is our position. Kāmādīnāṁ katidhā na katidhā pālitā durnideśā.
Just like I have given the example: Gandhi gave lifelong service according to his own. Hitler gave lifelong service. Napoleon gave lifelong service. But their ultimate end was very, very regrettable. Nobody realized his service. He was punished. This is material world. We have to understand very clearly, and we have to take lesson from this verse that we may go on serving our lusty desire, greediness, anger, and so on, so on, but we will never come to the end and become happy. When one comes to the point that "I have rendered service in so many ways. So neither I am happy nor the person to whom I have served, they are happy. Then what is the remedy?" That is discussed in the Vedānta-sūtra philosophy.
Due to this partition only, India's position is now very crippled. And these rascal leaders, they accepted partition for becoming prime minister. This policy. Gandhi never agreed. So the Jawaharlal Nehru, in order to become prime minister, he committed such a blunder. Therefore India is given... Still, if they keep to their original culture, they will not be unhappy. And you find in every city some such institution as this Gītā Bhavan, in every city you'll find. People are contributing. They are coming. They are holding ceremony, calling saintly persons, every city still. Just like we have gone to Punjab?
Just like I am collecting lakhs and millions of money, but next moment there is standing somebody, he will take away. So that I do not know, that one man is waiting. I am collecting. There was a caricature picture when India was struggling for independence. So the Gandhi's picture, Gandhi was fishing with the tackle, and Jinnah was standing behind with a knife and plate, that "Let this rascal struggle for independence, and as soon as (sic:) he's get, I will take share and go away, Pakistan." Actually he did so. He never went to jail, but he took the share and made Pakistan. So Gandhi, therefore, was not in favor of partition. But he had to do, accept it. Because the Britishers were very intelligent, that "Let us divide it so that India may not become a strong power." So that still, it is going on, the animosity between Pakistan and Hindustan. It is British plan. That is politics.
For example, in our country we respected Mahātmā Gandhi as the father of the nation or the master of the nation. But actually, he was servant. As soon as there was little discrepancy, immediately he was put to death. Immediately. Similarly, in USA also, President Kennedy, he was very popular president, but as soon as there was little discrepancy, he was also killed. So this position we must know, that nobody is master here; everyone is servant. But the real position is to become the servant of God. That he is, but because... Just like a criminal. He thinks that "I don't care for any law." But he is forced to obey the laws in the prison house. Outside or inside, he has to obey the laws of the government, but under illusion he thinks that "I don't care for the government."
Take, for example, in our India, Mahātmā Gandhi made so many plans to get our independence. He was taking Bhagavad-gītā in his hand and publicly said that "I get solace from Bhagavad-gītā." He was very fond of Bhagavad-gītā. But unfortunately he could not make Kṛṣṇa as center. This is the unfortunate. Therefore whole plan failed. Gandhi wanted nonviolence—failed. Gandhi wanted Hindu-Muslim unity—failed. Why? Because he never said that Kṛṣṇa is the center. Find his lecture. He'll never say Kṛṣṇa. Missing. Kṛṣṇa is missing. Similarly, so many... One French professor has admitted, Aurobindo or Dr. Radhakrishnan, they have written Bhagavad-gītā, annotation, so many others also, but Kṛṣṇa is missing. They're faulty. Kṛṣṇa is missing. Through Bhagavad-gītā, they want to make the society Kṛṣṇa-less. That is their policy.
Just like the tree. It does not do any harm to anyone. Rather, it is very hospitable. It gives shelter to the people. They are taking fruits, they are taking branches, leaves, sometimes cutting. They are very harmless, but still, there is harm, suffering. Must stand there for five thousand years and scorching heat and pinching winter, storm, and sometimes fall down. The suffering is there. Even we become a nonviolent... Even Gandhi. He was nonviolent, very moralist. Still he was killed. Just see. This is material world. He was killed by bullet. So the material world means suffering. So what is the use of making a prolonged life? Prolonged suffering. Therefore it is said, aghāyuḥ. If you live for a moment as a devotee, your life is successful. And if you live for many thousands of years without any Kṛṣṇa consciousness—aghāyuḥ, useless life, useless. Aghāyur aśucir malāt, because the desire is there, kāma and lobha, greediness and lusty desire.
In the Vedic literature you will find his name. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). The name of the predominating deity, or the president of the sun globe, is Vivasvān. His name is also there. His address is also there. The God is there. God's name is there. God's address is there. Now if you have got power to go there, you can go. Just like Indira Gandhi or the President's name is there, address is there, but if you are fit to see him or her, that depends on you. Not that because you cannot see the President or Indira Gandhi, she is nirākāra. This is foolishness. This is foolishness. Why God should be nirākāra?
Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. He came to that point, no sleeping, no eating. All the Gosvāmīs, they were not sleeping more than two hours. So why about Gosvāmīs? Even big karmīs, like Subash Bose, Gandhi, they were also not sleeping. I heard that Napoleon Bonaparte, he was not sleeping. He was sleeping... When he was passing from one warfield to another, on his horse he slept. That's all. He never went to the bedroom for sleeping. Gandhi used to do that. He would sleep when he was passing from one station, one... In the motorcar he would sleep. Then again he will begin work.
Gandhi was very regular in his eating. He would take simply a cup of goat's milk and few peanuts and some day one or two cāpāṭis. Otherwise he will not take anything. And some oranges.
A great politician—he would not accept government supplied food. Goat must be milked before him, and the milk is made hot and given to him. He would not allow any other food. Then he will starve. He will fast. So government was obliged to give him whatever he wanted as his food. So Gandhi was not sleeping very much. Even ordinary, Subash Bose, he was not sleeping very much. And Napoleon Bonaparte, he also was not sleeping very much. So there were many instances, even the karmī. That means when one is engaged in some serious business, he sleeps less. When I was in your country and was not attacked by the heart, so at night I was taping, and I was taping still two tapes. Two tapes. Therefore I was able to write so many books. Yes.
We are publishing one book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It has been taken by one great publisher, Macmillan Company, and we'll have it by the month of October. Don't interpret. We explain things as they are. That should be the attitude. Why? Why interpretation? By interpretation, there are 664 editions of Bhagavad-gītā. Simply by... One medical man he has interpreted Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is a physician and Arjuna is a patient. And he has tried to explain through Bhagavad-gītā all anatomic physiology, not this. Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken in the battlefield, full of violence, and he is trying to prove that the Bhagavad-gītā is nonviolent. These are all artificial attempts. These explanations will never give you the real light from Bhagavad-gītā. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
But if one wants regular advancement of spiritual life, he must retire at the age of fifty. That is Vedic civilization. Not that unless one is killed, he's not going to retire. Even great personalities like Mahatma Gandhi, he was seventy-eight years, and still he would not retire from this... Political life means greater family life. A family man is interested with his family members, and a political leader is interested with the whole, a group of family. The principle is the same. Ordinary family man, he's looking after three, four members of the family, and a political leader is thinking that he's responsible for so many millions of men. The idea is the same: the extended family. But extended or diminished family, sva-kuṭumba-rāmaḥ, he's thinking, "I have to do something for them." But when death comes, you are unable to do anything, you have to immediately leave the scene, and according to the laws of nature you'll have to accept a body according to your karma. This is the law of nature.
We are thinking, "My family, my wife, my children, my society men, my nation will give me protection." No. Nobody can give you protection. It is false hope. Just like the birds, when they fly in the sky, everyone has to take his own care. Nobody can help anyone. One can help only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not in the material way. Nobody can help. Because... This is called destiny. I have given that example that in our country Mahatma Gandhi, he was a big man, he was in the meeting. In your country also, President Kennedy. So nobody could help him when he was killed.
We have got the experience that Mahatma Gandhi, he served whole life. Still, he was killed by his countrymen. So you may go on giving service in the material world, but nobody will be satisfied. Nobody will be satisfied. So this service is useless. Turn to the service of Kṛṣṇa immediately. It is not very difficult. Servant, we are practiced to serve. We are not master. We have been practiced. By nature, we are servant. So turn this service to Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult. If I am trained up to become a faithful servant, just become a faithful servant of Kṛṣṇa, then your business is complete. Na hi acyutaṁ prīṇayato bahu-āyāsaḥ. Much endeavor. There is no question of learning, much endeavor. We are already accustomed to give service. Simply turn it towards Kṛṣṇa and your life is successful.
Just like in our country the great leader Mahatma Gandhi, he had to work very, very hard. Twenty years in Durban he spoiled his time, and thirty years in India. I shall say spoiled his time. What for? For some political purpose. What is his political purpose? "Now we are a group called by the name Indian. We must drive away the Englishmen and take the supreme authority." This is the purpose. So this is anyābhilāṣitā. What is this purpose? Today you are Indian; tomorrow you may be something else. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body. So what is the next body? Are you going to be again Indian? No guarantee. Even if you have got very much affection for India, all right, according to your karma you'll get body. Even if you get the Indian body of a tree, then you will stand up for five thousand years. What is the benefit? Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He does not say that a human being is going to be again a human being. There is no guarantee.
Because every one of us, we want to be the richest man in the world, the greatest leader of the world, and to have a very beautiful wife... This is our heart's desire in the material world, to control over a vast mass of people—I want to be prime minister, president, or political leader, Hitler or Gandhi, like that—and to amass vast amount of wealth. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No, no, no. I don't want all these things." This is prayer. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). "Then what for You have come to Me?" Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi: "My dear Lord, I pray that birth after birth I may have unconditional, causeless devotion unto You." Not devotion for some purpose. That is not pure devotee. If you have got some purpose to... That is, of course, accepted in the Bhagavad-gītā, that if anyone goes to Lord to pray something with purpose, that is also good. But that is not pure. Pure devotee never asks anything from the Lord. That is pure devotion.
This is the statement of Śrīmad-Bhagavatam. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇa mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). So take for example that, our, in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he was considered to be a very good man... (break) They may be good, but they are not ultimate good. The ultimate good is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is good for you and good for all. Anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is good in this sense, because he is in transcendental position, and whatever he speaks, because he speaks about God, therefore speaking is not adulterated. So this position, as soon as you take it a principle of your life, that "I shall simply be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, or God's service. I shall talk about Kṛṣṇa, I shall work for Kṛṣṇa, I shall write for Kṛṣṇa, I shall read for Kṛṣṇa. Everything for Kṛṣṇa," that is the transcendental position beyond goodness, better than goodness. So one can be situated in this position immediately by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. It is not very difficult.
Kṛṣṇa is not your servant; He does not agree to be your servant. But when He's pleased, He says, He calls you, "Please come and surrender unto Me." Therefore we must expect, "When the master will call me?" Don't try to see God, but act in such a way that God will call you, "Please come here." That is wanted. That is bhakti, not that "O God, please come. I will see you." Why God will come to see you? He is very busy. What you have done that you want to see God? If you say, "O Indira Gandhi, please come here. I'll see you," she will come? Be qualified, and she will see you. Similarly, don't try... This is not bhakti. Nacia nacia aire gopāla.(?) No. Gopāla is not anyone's servant that He'll come dancing and dancing. You be qualified, and He'll see you. He'll call you, "Yes, come back. Come back home, back to home, back to Godhead." Be qualified.
Everyone has experience what is the situation of this material world. Every day we have seen big, big leaders, ministers. Just like in the history of the world there were so many big, big men—Hitler, Napoleon, this Churchill, Gandhi, Nehru. But all their powers, position, in one minute it becomes vanquished. There is no question... They are so proud, they do not believe in God, but when the death comes, they cannot argue anything. The death orders, "Immediately vacate"—finished. You have to vacate. At that time their power, opulence, position—nothing can help. So Kṛṣṇa says, therefore... The atheist class of men who do not believe in God, decry the authority of God, for them... Of course, everyone dies, but for them, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham: (BG 10.34) Kṛṣṇa comes as death and takes away everything in their possession.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Just like the same thing happened in general politics also. When Gandhi started the movement, noncooperation movement, so he selected some very big men of India, big, big lawyers like C. R. Das, Motilal Nehru. So C. R. Das, at that time, about fifty years ago, he was earning about fifty thousand rupees per month by his legal practice. He said that "Gandhiji, you take all my money, but let me practice. Don't ask me to boycott the British court." But that was on the, one of the programs. So Gandhiji said, "No, I don't want your money. I want you." And actually that was very effective. So similarly Arjuna also decided that "I don't want Your soldiers. I want You." So these are different rasas.
A thief knows that "If I steal, I, then I'll be punished." He has heard from śāstra, or he has known the state laws, that, if one commits theft, he's punished. He knows it. And he has seen it, that one man has stolen, or committed theft, he's arrested, taken by the police. He has seen it. But still he commits theft. Why? Why? Therefore it is a... That is my... I become habituated to serve the process of sense gratification in such low grade that what is not to be done, I still do it. Therefore he says, kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ, teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā. But anyone who serves for somebody, ask him: "Whether you are satisfied? I have served you so much." They'll never say. Just like... Take the example—I've given this example many times—that who can serve his country than Mahatma Gandhi better? Nobody. But still he was shot dead. Still he was shot dead. His service was not acknowledged, recognized. Otherwise how he shot dead? There are so many cases. So many cases.
Just like the untouchables, the Muhammadans, and so many things. The Britishers they put forward these problems (because) they were not willing to separate the British rule. Only some high class, higher section of the Hindus, they are trying to separate the British rule. At that time, Gandhi stamped the camaras (?) and the bhaṅgis as harijana. But means as soon as there was the word "harijana," immediately a person would be considered coming from the camaras and the bhaṅgis. But such exalted title, harijana, is offered to personalities like Nārada, Brahma, those who are actually associates with Hari. But according to śāstra, there is no objection to accept these camaras and the bhaṅgis or any low-grade family to make him harijana, provided he accepts the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa in a regular way, by the Vaiṣṇava vidhāna. Just (as) recommended by the Gosvāmīs, Sanātana Gosvāmī: tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. Dīkṣā-vidhānena, by the proper initiative process, one can become dvija, twice-born.
Nationality means expanded selfishness. They are very much fond of nationality, but that nationality is also selfishness—by combined effort. Our, in our country, Mahatma Gandhi is supposed to be the father of nationality. Not only in our country, in many other countries. But what is that nationality? Mahatma Gandhi wanted that "The Britishers must go away. My countrymen shall enjoy." So this is extended selfishness. In the beginning, I want to enjoy. Then if I, I extend my enjoyment, family-wise, community-wise or nation-wise, that does not change the quality of selfishness. People are going on in the name of nationality, big leaders, but from our point of view, that neither as nation or community or person you are the proprietor of things. Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of... So if you expand your selfishness in the name of nationality—"I possess this land"—we do not approve. We say, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Why you are claiming yourself, as nation or individual or community? That's not proper.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu. This body, deha, apatya, children; kalatra, wife; ādiṣu, with all these things... Then again extend. From children, you get... You get them married. Then again extension—daughter-in-law, son-in-law, grandson. In this way, we are increasing our so-called happiness. Ātma-sainyeṣu. And we are thinking that "These surrounding friends—society, friends and love, nation—will give me protection." In our country, we have seen. Gandhi struggled so, mean, hard for getting independence, thinking that "We'll be happy." But Gandhi himself was killed.
He analyzed this cow dung and found all antiseptic properties in cow dung. So this is Vedic injunction. Whatever is there, it is already tested, it is already experimented. You have simply to accept. Don't try to argue. This is acceptance of Vedānta-sūtra. Not that "Oh, I have got to serve some purpose, political purpose. So I'll have to prove from Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence." In our country, Gandhi, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. He wanted to prove that there... (break) ...by violence. So he was killed. How you can prove Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence? There is tacit order, "You must fight. The other party is impious. So you must fight." These are the injunction. You cannot change. That is not Vedānta-sūtra.
"My dear Sañjaya, my sons, māmakāḥ, my sons and Pāṇḍava, the sons of my younger brother, Pāṇḍu, they assembled in the battlefield which is also a pilgrimage. Then what did they do?" This is the simple... But the nonsense rascals, they are eschewing some meaning, "Oh, kuru-kṣetra means 'body,' and dharma-kṣetra means this and this... Pāṇḍava means 'the five senses.' " So many nonsensical... Even Gandhi has done this. What Gandhi? Gandhi's nothing. You see? So they are, these rascals are doing and misleading persons. I've recently written one written to Dr. Radhakrishnan that "You are going to retire. Now join this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. You have written your Bhagavad-gītā, and you don't believe Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Lord, God. Therefore by reading your Bhagavad-gītā people have become godless. So you better rectify your mistake. Now join this." I've written state letter to Dr. Radhakrishnan. "So if you want to, I mean to say, compensate the greatest sin you have committed in your Bhagavad-gītā, then you join this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement and rectify yourself." "Not to Kṛṣṇa."
Just like our Gandhi, he wanted to prove, from Bhagavad-gītā, nonviolence. The Bhagavad-gītā is being preached in the battlefield, and it is completely violence. How he can prove? Therefore he is dragging the meaning out of his own con... It is very troublesome, and anyone who will read such interpretation, he is doomed. He is doomed because the Bhagavad-gītā is meant for awakening your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If that is not awakened, then it is useless waste of time. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu embraced the brāhmaṇa who was illiterate, but he took the essence of Bhagavad-gītā, the relationship between the Lord and the devotee. Therefore, unless we take the real, I mean to say, essence of any literature, it is simply waste of time.
In our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he dedicated his life for the service of the country. Nobody can doubt about his service, but what is the result? His master killed him. He worked for his country, he took country as his master, and he worked so hard, and his countrymen killed him. We should take lesson from this that you cannot satisfy in this material world by becoming servant of your family or community, society, nation. No. It is not possible. You can satisfy very easily Kṛṣṇa by little service. By little service. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt.
Vipina: Mr. Deyani, you have any questions you would like to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Mr. Deyani: Well, I just have one thing here, you stated about Gandhi, and we respect that he was really a great leader of us, but stated one point in your lecture, this thing, that Gandhi, mostly, was a servant of the country, but in India, during that period, I didn't see other religious people or the great leaders of India fighting for the country, and they..., he's the one...
Prabhupāda: That is admitted. Why you are bringing that question? I mean to say that Gandhi gave the best service to you, but your country is so ungrateful that he killed him. That is my point. So the point is that the best service you can give, but you cannot satisfy everyone. That is material.
As I, yesterday I cited the example of Mahatma Gandhi. For his country's love, he did so much. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity, and he wanted nonviolence. In this way he was organizing. But the world is so ungrateful that instead of unity of Hindu-Muslim, in India we experienced complete partition, Hindustan and Pakistan. So he was baffled. And so far nonviolence was concerned, he was killed by violence. So he died very disappointed. So everyone... This is giving the best example, typical example. Everyone. We are attached to the love of this material world, but we are all disappointed. From everyone's experience, you'll find. Everyone is disappointed. Both sides, the lover and the beloved, both sides.
Everywhere there is a leader. You cannot avoid the leader. That is not possible. You may... I put this question to Professor Kotovsky, that "What is the difference between your philosophy and our philosophy? You are Leninist; you are following the leader Lenin, and we are following the leader Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difference in philosophy?" You have to follow one leader. That you cannot avoid. Without leader you cannot be guided, you cannot form a party. Everywhere you go... Just like in our country we followed the leadership of Mahatma Gandhi, so we became a nation. So everywhere you will find: there must be a leader. Without leader you cannot become a community or a nation. Similarly, who is the supreme leader? That is God, or Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is described in the Vedas, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānāmv. He is the leader.
Mṛtyu means death, which takes away everything at a time. Just like "I am very rich man," "I am very big industrialist," "I am prime minister," this, that, so many things. "I am in possession of all I survey. I am the master of my country and everything." That's all right. As soon as death comes, "Oh, I am Jawaharlal Nehru," "I am Gandhi," "Oh! Never mind! Please go away! Finish Stop your all leadership." That is God. You don't believe, you may not believe God, but when death comes you have to believe in God. Let the scientists and let the big leaders and rich men protect himself from death. Then you can say that there is no God. (break) This atheism, denying the existence of God, is not very good. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important.
Before the father and mother conjugate there is ceremony, garbhādhāna, for the higher caste. The higher caste were made not artificially. They had to follow nine great principles, then they are higher caste, not by rubber stamp, just like Gandhi wanted to do, taking the banghis, the sweepers, and rubber-stamping "harijana." No. This is a process. Everyone is open to become a harijana, but not by rubber stamp but by training. That training is required. People are avoiding the training and simply speculating in the mind, foolishness. How the world can improve? There must be training. Without training, simply by mental speculation, one can make any... Manasā mathurāṁ gacchasi. Oh, you have to work. If you want to go California, you have to go there.
Now, even a love extended, so-called love extended, that nationalism, loving the countrymen, loving the humanity, that is also not perfect. We have got practical experience. In our country, in India, Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country very nicely. He sacrificed everything, and for thirty-five years he simply struggled for the, I mean to say, independence of his country, of his countrymen. But the result was, at the ultimate end, he was killed by his countrymen. After loving so much his country, the result was that he was killed by his country. So in this material world the love is like that. It is never perfect. It cannot be perfect. So Lord Caitanya, taking compassion on these poor fellows, He taught love of Godhead. If you love Kṛṣṇa, then you will feel pleasure. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12).
An approved literature. Just like Gandhi. Gandhi wanted to establish nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. He was a... He is known to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā, but he was not at all. His political theory was that he wanted to conquer over the enemies by nonviolence method. Nonviolent noncooperation, that was his, I mean to say, theory. He wanted to get away all kinds of nonviolence from the world, all kinds of violence from the world. So he wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. But how you can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Because Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken in the violent battlefield. But because he wanted to prove nonviolence, therefore he says, "Oh, these Pāṇḍavas means this. This Kṛṣṇa means this. This chariot means this. These Kurus means this. Dharmakṣetra means this. Kurukṣetra means this." He has invented and manufactured so many rascal meaning that it is very difficult... He said that dharmakṣetre... In the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā there is the verse, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Now the very word yuyutsavaḥ means persons who are desiring to fight with one another. Now, how you can prove nonviolence? But he extracts some meaning: "These Pāṇḍava means five senses and the Kurukṣetra means this body." In this way, his interpretation.
In the Kurukṣetra, that place, if anyone wants to perform religious rites, he should go to Kurukṣetra and perform there. It will have better effect. This is the indication in the Vedic literatures. Therefore Kurukṣetra is still accepted. Those who travel, wander in pilgrimages, they go to Kurukṣetra still. The system is going on. If there is a lunar eclipse, they go to Kurukṣetra to make some charities. So Kurukṣetra is accepted from the very, very long period in the Vedic age as the place of pilgrimage. So it is stated there, dharmakṣetra. How can I interpret that this Kurukṣetra means this body? In which dictionary he finds this meaning? But people are so foolish, because Mahatma Gandhi has interpreted, "Oh, it is right." So this is going on.
Festival Lectures
So these false notions, isms, are going on. People are being misled. You see? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Practical experience: In my country, India, I was also a student of Gandhi. In 1920 I joined the noncooperation movement and gave up my education because Gandhi's program was to boycott the British educational institution. So most of the university students... I was also. I passed my final examination, B.A., but I gave up. I did not appear, and I joined this movement. Fortunately, in 1922 I also met my Guru Mahārāja, and he, on my first visit, I do not know why, he told that "You should preach this Caitanya philosophy to the outside world." I replied that "We are dependent nation. Who will hear us? In the world, nobody hears any person who is coming from dependent nation, so we must have first of all independence." A young man I was at that time, and I was also misled in so many ways. But my spiritual master saved me, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja.
Any one of us who are sitting here, nobody can vouchsafe that he has not committed any mistake in life. No, that is natural. "To err is human." In our country, even a personality like Mahātmā Gandhi, he committed so many mistakes. So to commit mistake is not unusual. It is usual for any man. Then again, one is illusioned. Illusioned means accepting something for something. Just like every one of us, we accept this body as ourself, but actually we are not, everyone. On this bodily concept of life the whole trouble is there in the whole trouble is there in the world. I am thinking "Indian"; you are thinking "American"; he is thinking "dog"; he is thinking "cat"; because on this bodily concept of life. So this is illusion because I am not this body, you are not this body. Because at the time of death we can understand the body is there, but my relative is crying, "Oh, my son is gone." "My father is gone." Where he is gone? The body is there. Where is your father gone? No. Then we can... After death we can understand that "My father or my son was not this body. He was something else." So this is called illusion.
Everyone can understand that however great philosopher, scientist one may be, he is imperfect. He's imperfect. Every man. I have several times recited this example that in our country Gandhi was very big politician. You know Mahatma Gandhi. He committed so many mistakes. At last he committed such a great mistake that he was killed. That's a long history. So even a great person like Mahatma Gandhi, he commits mistake. Therefore, the śāstra says any conditioned soul, he must commit mistake. However great he may be in the estimation of fools and rascals. Sva-viḍ-varāhostra. He must commit mistake, he must be illusioned, his propensity is to cheat, and at the end, all the senses are imperfect. We have several times described. So, so much imperfectness, how he can give perfect knowledge?
"...simple expression of reverence and love. The disciple, Abhaya Charan Dāsa, was to become His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder-ācārya of International Society, Krishna Consciousness." So whatever I appreciated forty years ago, the same principle is going on. We have no change. What I understood my spiritual master... Practically I met him in 1922, and this poetry was written in 1936. That means fourteen years before writing this poetry, I met my Guru Mahārāja in 1922. At that time I was quite a young man, twenty-five years old only, and I was posted in a very responsible position and as the office manager of Dr. Bose's laboratory. And I was fond of in those days, of Gandhi's movement. In 1922 I joined Gandhi's movement, and I gave up my educational career because one of the Gandhi's program was to boycott the universities. That's a very long story. And many students gave up their educational career and joined this Gandhi's movement, and I was one of them.
So when I gave up my education and I was joining Gandhi's movement, at that time Dr. Kartik Chandra Bose asked me to join him. So with the permission of my father, I joined. So I was fond of, at that time, this Gandhi's noncooperation movement. And then, when I joined Dr. Bose's laboratory, of course, I was dressed in khādar. So Dr. Bose liked that dress, khādar dress. He told me one day that "Out of your whole Gandhi's movement, I like this khādar only." Dr. Bose said. And why? "No, because this will give impetus to industry. This hand spinning will gradually give impetus to India." Actually that happened. He was himself an industrialist. Actually in India the chemical industry was given birth by Dr. Kartik Chandra Bose. He was very important man. He started this Bengal Chemical.
Whatever you do not understand, you will ask later on, not in the middle. I could not understand that time. You see? It was... I talked with him in so many ways: "Who will hear your Caitanya's message? We are dependent country." At that time I was Gandhi's devotee. In 1920 I gave up my educational career and joined this Congress Movement. Because Gandhi's program was to boycott the university education and the British law court, so we took this opportunity and gave up education. You see? (chuckles) So then Dr. Bose, he was my father's friend. So he asked, "What this Abhaya is doing?" And my sister told him, "Oh, he has appeared in the B.A. examination, but he is not doing anything." So Dr. Bose was my father's friend. So he appointed me the manager of his laboratory. I did not know anything; still, he appointed me. So that was in 1921.
Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, my spiritual master, his advent day today. In 1922, I was at that time very much engaged in Congress activity. I was very much devout follower of Mahātmā Gandhi, and at that time, I was manager also in a very big chemical concern in Calcutta. Perhaps you may know, Dr. Bose's laboratory. One of my friends—he's still living, Śrī Narendranath Mullik—he informed me that "One saintly person has come. Let us go and see." At that time I was young man, and I did not care for very much about so-called saintly persons. Because in our house, my father used to receive so many sannyāsīs, but some of them were not very to the standard, and due to my association with college friends, younger days, I lost my faith practically, although I was born in a Vaiṣṇava family.
That was his desire in 1896. And then, in 1918, my Guru Mahārāja started with this mission one institution known as Gauḍīya Math. Perhaps some of you know the name, Gauḍīya Math. And he was trying to spread this message of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and by chance or by prediction, as you think, I was taken to Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura by one of my friends. I did not want to go there, but he forcibly took me there. Yes. And he ordered me that "You preach the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu in English language. This is very much essential." So on the first meeting he told me like that. That was my first meeting with him. So at that time I was in favor of Gandhi's movement. So I said that "We are not independent—subjugated. Who will hear about our message?" So Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura refuted my argument. I was very much pleased. I had so many talks. But I was very much pleased to be defeated, that "This so-called nationalism or any ism, they are all temporary. Real need is the self-realization."
There was agitation in India, perhaps you know, that Gandhi stamped some persons as Harijana. Harijana. They were coming from the bhaṅgīs. Bhaṅgīs means sweepers or the cleaners of the toilet room. So Gandhi accepted them. The government was creating, British government was creating faction between high caste, low caste. So Gandhi thought that, "I shall make these bhaṅgīs and camars as Harijana, as great devotees." But simply by rubberstamping, how one can become devotee? That is not possible. Without going the pāñcarātrikī-vidhī, they remain the same unclean drunkard and the all nonsense habits. And simply by stamping rubberstamping, Harijana? No. Here what we are doing, it is not rubberstamping. It is actually training according to the pāñcarātrikī-vidhī. We are training our boys to become brāhmaṇas, to refrain from four kinds of sinful activities, to take bath, to take this, take that. And above all, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Just like you have heard the name of Mahatma Gandhi in our country, but the definition of mahātmā in Bhagavad-gītā is different. A mahātmā is not a politician. A mahātmā is not for the Indians and not for the Americans or any certain limited circle. Mahātmā is not like that. Of course, the Indian people awarded the title "Mahatma" Gandhi, but mahātmā means a different... Mahātmā's definition is given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There it is stated, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daiviṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ (BG 9.13). A mahātmā is under the shelter of the internal potency of God. There are two kinds of potencies. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You should read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. You'll understand everything.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Everyone is serving society, friendship, love, family, country, but none of them are satisfied. None of them sat... Even your President, he could not satisfy you. You had to drag him down. Neither he could satisfy himself. Even Gandhi could not satisfy his countrymen. Although he gave so much service, he was shot dead. So this is the material world. You cannot satisfy anyone, neither you become satisfied, materially engaged. This is called material world. We may show some artificial satisfaction, but there cannot be satisfaction in the material world. First of all, you have to take it as axiomatic truth that there is no happiness and there cannot be any satisfaction in this material world. Then you'll make, spiritually advance. If you have got little faith still that "I can be satisfied; I can be happy materially," then that is māyā's influence. That is māyā's influence. There is no possibility.
Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka—they are all devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they have established so many temples, and Gandhi says there was no such person. And how much poor study he had, and still, he is the leader.
Initiation Lectures
Just like in your country, in our country, President Kennedy, he wanted to give service to the country, but the people were not satisfied. Somebody killed him. Gandhi, whole life he engaged himself to the service of the country, but he was killed by his countrymen. This is called māyā, that you offer service somebody—he is not satisfied; you are not satisfied. Nobody is satisfied. Therefore one should be intelligent, that "What kind of service I am rendering?" The man who I am... In the family, suppose a gentleman—throughout his life he has served the family—asked his wife, "Are you satisfied?" "Oh, what you have done for me?" Asked the son. Oh, he is not satisfied. So this is called māyā.
The Britishers, they were, two hundred years ago, they were planning to rule over this vast land of America. George Washington declared independence; their plan failed. Similarly, in India they were planning to exploit. Now Gandhi's movement made it fail. So this is bigger plan. Similarly smaller plan also. There are many... Individually, we make so many plans that "I shall be happy in this way, in that way, in that way." So this plan-making business is māyā, because that will never be successful. Trace out the history of the whole world. Nobody has become happy. Hitler made a plan, so great a plan. You see? He was frustrated. So the sane man, intelligent man... Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says that a person who is actually intelligent, wise... How a man becomes wise? After being baffled or frustrated many, many times, he can understand this is not the process. And the Vedānta-sūtra also places the first, athāto brahma jijñāsā.
Revatīnandana: "The fifth offense is interpreting the holy names of God."
Prabhupāda: Yes. No interpretation in the holy... Just like Kṛṣṇa, the Māyāvādī philosophers may... Just like Gandhi has written, "Pāṇḍava means the senses; Kurukṣetra means this body; Kṛṣṇa means the mind." No such nonsense interpretation. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Any big man, behind that big man is a woman, either mother or wife, especially. You have heard the name of Vidya-sagara Pandit. The background was his mother. Gandhi, the background was his mother. Now, this Lord Wellington, the background was his wife. So woman has got a very responsible duty, to energize man with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you are young girl. I am very happy that you have come to this. Try to execute this energy. That will be your duty.
Just like we went to that Savarmati jail in Ahmedabad. We were received by the jail authorities, where Gandhi was put into jail. Who was with me in that...? You were... You were also there. No. So we went to jail. There, they made very good arrangement. The prisoners, they received us, they chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So it was a good function. So we want to, went to jail. But what we have got to do with the jail? We have no business with the jail. Similarly sometimes we are invited in a very rich man's house, governor's house. We go there. That is heaven. So we have nothing to take, either from this heaven or from that hell. We have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra anywhere. That is our business.
Wedding Ceremonies
Perhaps you have heard the name of Mahatma Gandhi. He was married when he was student, sixteen years old, and his wife was also of the same age. Later on Mahatma Gandhi became a very famous man. So one day there was husband and wife quarrel. So Mahatma Gandhi, he has written in his own biography, he drove away the wife: "You get out from my house." So the wife got out of the house and was crying in the street, "Where shall I go?" And again Mahatma Gandhi went there, "Come on." So even there was quarrel between Mahatma Gandhi and his wife. So this quarrel of husband and wife is not very serious thing. So I'll request you, even there is some misunderstanding, forget it. Don't take it seriously. Simply you concentrate on Kṛṣṇa consciousness business.
General Lectures
Just like in our country there was Mahatma Gandhi. He was supposed to be a very great personality, mahātmā, but he also committed mistake because when he was killed, five minutes before his coming to the meeting, he was warned by his confidential associates not to go to that meeting, but he persisted, and as soon as he entered the meeting hall he was killed. So I am giving an instance that even a great personality like Mahatma Gandhi, he also committed mistake. So in the conditioned state of our life, committing mistake is very natural. Just like we say, "To err is human." Any human being is susceptible to commit mistake. Another imperfectness is that every man is illusioned. Illusioned means to accept something which is not, phantasmagoria. Just like every one of us in this meeting, we are under the impression that "I am this body." But actually I am not this body. This is called illusion, māyā.
I shall give you one tangible example in the life of Mahatma Gandhi. You know he was a very great man, political leader in India. So he was also very God-fearing man, a very nice soul. But he also committed mistakes so many times. So to err is human. This is a fact in every person. Therefore, because we commit mistake, because we are sometimes illusioned, and because we have got a propensity of cheating others, and because our senses are imperfect, therefore, simply by mental speculation it is not possible to realize God. Then how one can realize God? That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā and other literatures, that by the mercy of God one can realize God. So by His causeless mercy, He comes down. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7), it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Just like I told you that Mahātmā Gandhi, he was a recognized good man, but he committed so many mistakes. So pure goodness is not possible in this material world. Pure goodness means spiritual life. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). So because the spirit soul by nature is pure, by nature... As God is pure, similarly, we are part and parcel of God. We are also pure in our original position. But since we have come in contact with this material nature, our inferiority in different qualities or different degrees are present. So for spiritual advancement, one has to come first to the platform of goodness, then pure goodness.
f one is thinking that he's happy materially, he's a fool. Nobody can be happy. This is the place for distress. It is certified by miseries, as well as it is temporary. Even if you accept, "All right, it is a miserable place. I shall stay here. Never mind," but nature will not allow you to stay even. One day it will come, immediately kick you out. You have seen the great President of United States, Mr. Kennedy. He was supposed to be the happiest man in the world, but within a second he was kicked out, immediately. In our country Mahatma Gandhi was very popular leader, but in a second he was removed from the field. So we do not know when we shall be removed immediately by the freaks of nature. Therefore the intelligent man should try to know, "What is my constitutional position? Why I want to stay, but some superpower kicks me out of this stage?" Why? This is question. This is called brahma-jijñāsā.
In New York, they have constructed a big organization, establishment, United Nations. But actually, when we pass through that road—I think it is First Avenue—instead of being united, the flags of the nations are increasing. They are becoming disunited. Just like in India, our independence movement was started by Mahatma Gandhijī for uniting all the different section of the people, but actually, the result was that instead of being united, India was partitioned. And the partition has become so poisonous that formerly there was only sporadic Hindu-Muslim riots in some place; now there is organized fighting between Pakistan and Hindustan. So although the tendency is to unite, but in fact, it is not being united; they are becoming disunited more and more—not only the Hindus and Muslims. Now in India, there are many provincial questions. Just like in Andhra the fight is going on for separation. Punjab is already separated. So actually, we are not being united.
When your Highnesses may visit London or New York or Los Angeles—most probably you visit London occasionally—I invite you to our temple at 7 Bury Place near the British Museum. It is very prominent place. And this girl in front of you, Śrīmatī Yamunā devī, she and her husband Gurudāsa is in charge of the temple. But because I have come to India, they are assisting me. She has seen the Prime Minister also, Indira Gandhi. She is very much impressed with the saṅkīrtana movement. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and patronization by the royal family is very old relationship. So I came especially in Indore to see your holinesses..., er, highnesses, that if you give us some shelter we can immediately open a branch of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. I have brought with me forty American, European, Canadian students, and they will be exemplary teachers. You can see from their faces how they are advanced in spiritual consciousness, how they have accepted these principles of Vaiṣṇavism.
In our country Mahatma Gandhi, he was a great man undoubtedly, but he also committed mistake, so what to speak of us? A conditioned soul must commit mistake. And he must be illusioned. To accept something as something else, that is called illusion. Just like illusion, best example of illusion, is given that māyā-marīcika, to accept water in the desert. An animal sees that there is water in the desert, and being thirsty, he goes after the water, but the water also makes progress, and he also makes progress. In this way he dies. That is called illusion. Actually, there is no water, but he is fleeing after water. So for conditioned soul these are the defects.
Just like in India our independence movement was started by Mahatma Gandhiji for uniting all the different section of the people. But actually, the result was that instead of being united, India was partitioned. And the partition has become so poisonous that formerly there was only sporadic Hindu-Muslim riots in some place; now there is organized fighting between Pakistan and Hindustan. So although the tendency is to unite, but in fact it is not being united. They are becoming disunited more and more. Not only the Hindus and Muslim. Now in India there are many provincial questions. Just like in Andhra the fight is going on for separation. Punjab is already separated. So actually we are not being united. We are being separated.
In our country also, many big leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and others. Do you think that these men are combination of bag, combination-bag of bones and flesh and urine? Therefore, the śāstra says: yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Tri-dhātuke. This body is made of three elements, according to Ayur Vedic system, kapha pitta vāyu. Mucus, bile and air. So actually, the combination of this body is like that. As soon as the spirit soul goes out of this body, it is nothing but bones, flesh and urine and stool and it has to be thrown away. In every society, as soon as the man is dead... So, while he was living, he was acting so nicely, so intelligently. Now as soon as the soul is gone, immediately everything is gone.
Everyone has got anxieties. Even the small bird, he has got anxiety. You give the small bird some grains to eat, he'll eat it. But he's not very peacefully eating. He'll see this way, that way, "If somebody's coming to kill me?" Yes. This is material existence. Everyone... Even President Nixon, he's also full of anxieties, what to speak of others. Even Gandhi, in our country, he was full of anxieties. All politicians, they're full of anxiety; although they hold very exalted post, still the material disease, anxiety, is there. So if you want to be anxiety-less, without any anxiety, then you must take shelter of the guru, or the spiritual master, and the test is that by the instruction of guru, by following the instruction of guru, you will be anxiety-less. This is the test.
At least in India, all the villagers, they have been drawn in the city for producing bolts and nuts. Now eat bolts and nuts. So, so Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi's program was that, village organization. And our big Pandit topsy-turvied everything. So Gandhi's program was very nice, to organize a... (break) ...and produce your own food. If you work only three months, you get the whole year's provision. Whole year's provision. The balance time, you save. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our movement. And be spiritually advanced. Be human being. Otherwise, it is risky. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). After all, we have to change this body; however big plan we may make, we have to give up this plan, and we have to change this body.
So he was destroyed. He'll be destroyed. They are being destroyed. These demonic leaders will not stay. They'll be destroyed. But everything takes some time. Just like I told you that Gandhi, he understood the pulse of the country. He wanted to reorganize the villages, but our big Paṇḍitajī topsy-turvied everything.
And we killed him, Gandhi. Yes. So this is... Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If a mūrkha is advised to do something, he becomes angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ visa-vardhanam. So at the present moment, our Indian leaders are not very good. Blind. They have no knowledge, and they are leading. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They have killed our original Vedic culture, and they cannot give anything. Gandhi wanted to give something, but he was also killed. What can be done?
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: It's like you say: morality may help him to transcend. He is beginning to perceive behind this moral law. Prabhupāda: No. From this instance we find that Arjuna was trying to become moral, not killing his own men; but that did not help him. Rather, by directly abiding by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, he transcended morality. So morality does not always help.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly there is higher. That highness is within this material world. There are two stages, two platforms: transcendental platform and physical platform. That highness is physical. Just like Mahatma Gandhi. He was known as a very high-class man, but he was a materialist, that's all. By his pious activities he may be elevated materially. Just like if you act piously, giving charity, then next birth you get very nice opulent birth, you are born in a rich family, you get enough money. But that is not the solution of your conditional life. To take birth in this family does not mean he hasn't got to undergo the process of birth, the pains of birth, the pains of death. But real problem is that I want to stop these pains of birth, death, old age and disease. Hari me nana mitinatante (?). Without love of Kṛṣṇa, nobody can escape these material conditions of life.
Prabhupāda: Because they will be defeated. Because they will be defeated. They never recognize. That was British policy. Britishers wanted to... That is the cause of degradation of Indian culture. They manufactured such a... Even Dr. Radhakrishnan is a victim of that policy. They wanted to impress upon the Indians that before the arrival of the Britishers we were almost uncivilized: "We have made you civilized." And these rascal leaders, they accepted. That was their policy. Because they are very intelligent people. Lord Macauley (said): "If you keep them as they are, you will never be able to rule over them." And later on also, when Gandhi started that "Noncooperate with these rascals, they will go away. They are by force getting our cooperation and killing us." So noncooperate. Therefore he established the noncooperation movement. And Sir (indistinct), one of the greatest diplomats, statesmen of India, he said that "This is a very dangerous movement. Try to cut down this movement. Otherwise, if one percent of the Indian people noncooperate, it will not be possible for us to rule over this country." So in order to get our cooperation they are simply impressing that before the arrival of the Britishers, Indians were uncivilized. So many books they published. One American prostitute wrote Mother India.
Devotee: I saw that book
Prabhupāda: Yes, simply blaspheming Indian temples, culture, priest, like that. Gandhi remarked on that book, "Drain Inspector's Report." And he has simply picked up the bad side. Sometimes these priests in the temple, they make some bad behavior with woman; she has picked up this, not the better side.
Śyāmasundara: Practically, until now, no one except you has brought Indian culture out.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In Bombay. It was prohibited area. So Gandhi made this prohibition as far as possible. Now they are lifting. Because simply prohibition will not help you. Unless you have got a better engagement, this prohibition will not help you. By law you can say, "Don't do this," but if you have no better engagement, this order of the law, "Don't do this," will not act. Will not act. Just like government, your government is trying to stop this intoxication. They could not. It is increasing. But so far our society is concerned, anyone who is coming here, immediately there is no intoxication. That means he gets something better. Therefore he voluntarily checks himself. And it is possible to check. So unless you give better thing, simply by prohibition you cannot check. That is not possible. The same example again, just like a thief, he knows the prohibitive order that you shall not steal. He knows the prohibitive order even in śāstra, that if a man is a thief he will suffer this kind of hellish condition. So he has heard it from the lawyer and from the śāstra that stealing is not good and he has seen it that a thief is arrested and is punished but still he does it. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious person will not do it. That is the difference. So by law or by pressure you cannot make anyone moral. That's not possible. He has to be given something which is better than morality, then he will stop committing all kinds of sins.
Hayagrīva: there's only one good. That's God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. You are thinking that this man is, so how he is good? He is limited in his power. He may think of his brother, of his nation, of his society but what does he do of other living beings? So how he can be good? A good man, speaking even a man like Gandhi, he is a good man, but when he was approached that stop cow killing, he could not do anything. Although he is advocating non-violence but he, the violence committing in the slaughterhouse, thousands and thousands of animals being killed, violence, what did he do? So how he is good man? Nobody can be good man.
Hayagrīva: Only a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he abides by the order of the Supreme Good, that's all. If Gandhi could not become a good man, so that as he was killed by enemy, so how the man can be good man? There is no good man, unless he is a devotee of the Supreme Lord, all good. It is physically impossible to become good man, even if he has got the desire. That is not possible. This is our mental concoction. This is good man or bad man. Anyone who is not God conscious, he is bad man, and anyone who is God conscious he is good man. This should be the question.
Śyāmasundara: But doesn't everyone derive strength?
Prabhupāda: No. Somebody, he thinks, "By drinking I get strength." There are many men in Bowery Street in your country. So, just like, why these drunkards? I'll give you a practical example. When long ago when Mahatma Gandhi came in Calcutta, so some of the Gauḍīya Math men went to invite him, "Mahatma Gandhi, please come to our temple." At that time charka was very prominent.
Prabhupāda: Charka, the, what is called? Spinning wheel.
Śyāmasundara: Spinning wheel.
Prabhupāda: Spinning wheel, yes. Gandhi was himself devoting, just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, he thought that you spin. So he first of all inquired whether in your temple you spin this charka. They replied, "No, sir. We worship Kṛṣṇa, God, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is our regular routine work." Gandhi replied, "Oh, then I am not going to your temple. My charka is my God." He said that. And actually, for him, charka was God in this sense: by introducing charka the whole Manchester closed. You see? And the British Empire half broken, simply by killing this Manchester industry. So many mills they closed. But later on the, (laughs) Manchester came to Ahmedabad. Now when we are taking supplies from Manchester, we are getting cloth, one rupee 8 annas per pair, now we have to pay twenty-five rupees per pair.
Śyāmasundara: So actually his idea of God would change. For the Communists God means the state; for the primitive savage God means the...
Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi made Cāṇakya his god.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. That to which one is supremely devoted, that means God.
Prabhupāda: Anyone may be supremely devoted to his wife or sometimes supremely devoted to his dog. The dog is God? Wife is God? So everyone has got one god, and I think that it is supported by Vivekananda, yata mata tata patha: "Whatever you think of God, that's all right." (Hindi with guest) Everyone can manufacture his own God. (laughter) Yes.
Prabhupāda: Sleep should be avoided, but that is not possible. Therefore it should be adjusted to the minimum. Just like Gosvāmīs, they are sleeping not less, not more than two hours. Even we hear about some karmī, just like Napoleon, he was also not sleeping. He was taking rest on the back of the horse. I do not know whether it is so.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But I know about Gandhi. He was sleeping when he is parking his car, because he was so busy.
Hayagrīva: (laughing) He gives some examples of men, of philosophers who slept a great deal. Maybe because they speculated so hard they had to sleep more.
Prabhupāda: No. Sleeping too much is bad in all circumstances. So, stop the machine. Stop this machine. Tomorrow is good.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhāgavatam, apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Those who are not seeing the position of spiritual, as the spirit soul, they are so much attached in this family life, worldly life, national life, (indistinct) material life, this life, that life. They are all false, but because he has no knowledge of the soul, he is attached to all these things. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Ātma-tattvam means the science of soul. That he does not know; therefore he is attached, gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. These are different types of gṛha. Just like a man is not very much advanced in nationalism, he thinks "This my house is everything." And one who has developed that like Gandhi, his family life developed into nationalism. So that is also gṛha. He is asking, I mean to say, Englishman, "Go away! It is mine." But that mahātmā, that greatness is simply expanding beyond the gṛha. He's a still gṛha-medhi. We don't say like that, "Oh, you Englishman, you cannot have Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So that, therefore, those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are mahātmā. (indistinct) These kind of mahātmās, they are not mahātmā, they are gṛha-medhis, but they have been given the title, false title. Just like in Bengali we say, the mother's love is child, and the child is blind. Still, "Oh, my child's eyes are just like lotus flower."
Śyāmasundara: Slogans. They simply speak slogans. Propaganda.
Prabhupāda: There is no cooperation. In this way, finally the people will non-cooperate and there will be revolution. Just like Gandhi's noncooperation. That stage will come. Nobody will cooperate with them. So these are foolish theories. It has no practical value.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) and it is not possible. Similarly, one cannot give up his religion. And what is that religion? That religion is service. If that is religion, then he wants to give service to the humanity by his proposition, and that is his religion. Why he is giving this philosophy, writing this book? He wants to give some service to the humanity. That is (the) idea. So everyone is trying to give some service. The father is trying to give some service (to) the family, the statesman is trying to give some service to his country. (indistinct) Then he is also trying to give some service to the whole humanity. So this service spirit is always there. Either you become a Karl Marx, or you become Stalin, or you become Gandhi, or you become whatever you may be, the service spirit is there. In the family also, the father wants to give service. In state also, the prime minister wants to give some service. So this service spirit will be there. Now, we are giving service to so many things, and we are becoming confused and (indistinct). Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that you give up all other service, give Me service, I will (indistinct). You cannot remain without giving service. That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: That is a different thing. But in India all the authorities, all personalities, unless you accept Vedas, you are called nāstika. Therefore Buddha philosophy was driven away, Caitanya Mahāprabhu veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Simply Lord Buddha says, "I don't care for your Vedas." Lord Buddha wanted to preach nonviolence, but in the Vedic literature there is violence. There is violence. Just like Gandhi wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. Where is nonviolence there? Where is that nonviolence? Kṛṣṇa is inducing Arjuna to fight, to become violent. So how can you prove there is nonviolence? These are all nonsense. So similarly, in the Vedas there is recommendation that animals can be sacrificed in the Vedas with mantra. That... Therefore the process, to test the power of the mantra, that animal is put into the fire and the animal again comes out with a new life. That is the test. Just like you test how the microphone is working. So how the Vedic mantras are being chanted rightly, that is tested by putting... Just like in laboratory a small animal is killed. But that is killed. They cannot give life. But here, in sacrifice, aśvamedha-yajña, gomedha-yajña, there is... Gavalambham, aśvamedhaṁ gavālambham (CC Adi 17.164). The animal sacrificed, but it comes again with ill life. That is the test, how the Vedic mantra is chanted. So because there is no such qualified brāhmaṇa, therefore in this age all kinds of sacrifices stopped. So Veda is no authority. The mantra has no life. So that is accepted by everyone. At least, civilized class of men. Actually, unless there is this varṇāśrama-dharma, the classification of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, that is not civilized form of life.
Purports to Songs
So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to teach us how to become detached to this material. That is vairāgya-vidyā. Vidyā means vairāgya-vidyā. Vidyā does not mean to become more and more attached to this material world. That is not... That is avidyā, illusion, because I will not be able to save this body. This body will change. I will be annihilated. But still, I am very much anxious for this body. This is called illusion or ignorance or avidyā. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to teach us vairāgya-vidyā, how to become detached. He personally showed by His life example that... He was very learned scholar in Navadvīpa. His name was Nimāi Paṇḍita, and He was very influential also. He was so influential that simply by His calling, 100,000 people joined Him to show a civil disobedience movement, disobeying the order of the magistrate that "You cannot perform kīrtana." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu organized immediately about one lakh of people and went to perform at the house of the magistrate. The civil disobedience movement, perhaps you know that it was inaugurated by Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi, in India against the British government. But long, long before, five hundred years before, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He started this civil disobedience movement against the order of Kazi. So He was so popular. My point is that not only He was a very learned scholar... He was young man, twenty, twenty-two years, but He was so popular that He could call 100,000 people at once to start this civil disobedience.
| Page Title: | Gandhi (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 08 of Aug, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=213, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 213 |