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Forgetfulness (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: The Lord said that "Many, many, many, many millions of years before, ago, I explained this science of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." Now, to eliminate any doubt in the minds of ordinary persons like us, Arjuna inquired that, "Kṛṣṇa, You are my friend. We are almost of the same age. How do you say that You explained this Bhagavad-gītā millions and millions of years ago to the sun-god? How can I believe it?" In answer to this question, Kṛṣṇa said that, "Both you..." (break) "...descended on this material world many many times, but you have forgotten. I remember." That is the nature of ordinary living entity. The nature is forgetfulness. But God does not forget. He knows past, present, and future. That is the difference between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. So the fighting spirit, it is to be understood.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Forgot, you forgot. That is your nature. You forget so many things. You cannot remember what you were doing exactly at this time yesterday. Can you remember immediately? Forgetfulness is our nature. We are very minute; therefore our..., we are subjected to the quality of forgetfulness. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was asking Kṛṣṇa that "How I can believe that you told this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to Vivasvān?" He said that "In... I, first of all, I told to Vivasvān." So in reply to that question, Kṛṣṇa said that "Both you and I had many, many births before, but you have forgotten; I remember." That is the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourself. He does not forget. He remembers everything, past, present, future, all, but we forget. That is the difference between God and living entity. We are subjected to forgetfulness. So we forget; again, if it is reminded, we remind. That is our nature. So at the present moment we are forgetful of our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And then, by good association, by constant chanting, hearing, remembering, we again revoke our old consciousness.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: That is the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourself. He does not forget. He remembers everything, past, present, future, all, but we forget. That is the difference between God and living entity. We are subjected to forgetfulness. So we forget; again, if it is reminded, we remind. That is our nature. So at the present moment we are forgetful of our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And then, by good association, by constant chanting, hearing, remembering, we again revoke our old consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So forgetfulness is not wonderful. It is natural. We forget. But if we keep constant touch, we may not forget. Therefore this association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotees, and constant repetition of the chanting, scripture, that will keep us intact without forgetting. Satataṁ kirtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). We have to continue this service constantly. Then we shall not forget. Forgetfulness is not wonderful. That is our nature. That is our nature. And that is the difference between ourself and God. God does not forget. We forget. We are claiming, some of us, foolishly claiming, that "I am God, but I forget."

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am not God. Is that clear? That is the difference between living jīva and Śiva, God. He does not forget. In the Bhagavad-gītā He says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni: (BG 7.26) "I know everything of this present, past, future, everything." But we do not know. We have forgotten. In our daily life, in our childhood, so many things we did. We don't remember. But our parents may remember that as a child, that we did this. So forgetfulness is our nature. But if we keep constant touch with Kṛṣṇa, then He will give us remembrance. So sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa says in the Fifteenth Chapter. Now you read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. In our examination next January... Yes. From Bhagavad-gītā for title of bhakti-śāstrī. Now we have to make our organization regularly a spiritual institution so that we may be recognized, and our students may be freed from this draft board requisition. That I am... Next step is going on. (Break) Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Puruṣottama? Why don't you get that tape? Yes.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called māyā. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called māyā, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother. That is a fact. Without father and mother, your existence cannot be. Now, if you cannot say who is your father and mother, if you do not know, this forgetfulness, this is called māyā. Actually it should not happen, but somehow or other, if you are asked, "Who is your parents?" You cannot say. This is called māyā. But there must be some father and mother. Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother."

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother. That is māyā, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial. "I don't believe in God"—that is also denial. "God is impersonal, void," anyway, whatever you say in that way, that is all insanity, māyā. Maya means insanity. Another meaning of māyā means insanity. Just like when a man becomes insane, that is false. It is expected that he should not be insane. By treatment he is brought again to his original consciousness. Similarly, māyā means insanity, forgetfulness of God. And by Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment he comes to the original consciousness. He becomes a cured man. Actually māyā means which has no existence. Māyā has no existence. But sometimes it is there. Just like the sky's cover. This covering is not reality. The reality is this sky, clear sky, but somehow it is now covered. You cannot see the clear sky. So there is temporary, temporary illusion. Now, if I see the cloud only and if I say, "Oh, there is no sun. There is no illumination," or "There is no clear sky," that is insanity.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: But we usually think of fallen as being forgetful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is also forgetfulness. In the brahma-jyotir you are forgetful still. Because you are... That is stated in the śāstra, anādhṛta yuṣmad anghrayaḥ. Anādhṛta. They do not know how to adore the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is forgetfulness.

Śyāmasundara: So they become separated.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: And Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the spiritual world, everything is composed of cintāmaṇi, just like here everything is composed of atoms. So suppose someone develops a spiritual form in the spiritual sky. That form, I mean, that cintāmaṇi, they are living entities also? Are they conscious entities or is that an expansion of the jīva soul's own potency? Just like if someone develops the form of a boy, cowherds boy with Kṛṣṇa, is that an expansion of his potency, of that living spirit soul's potency?

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: In one sense it is right. They are spiritual molecules. Yes. Here also, spiritual molecules, but here it is called material because there is no sense of Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: Forgetfulness. They are covered by ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: The cowherd boy with Kṛṣṇa, he is also vibhinnāṁśa expansion. Correct?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: But he's remembering. He is remembering, therefore he is...

Prabhupāda: He may not remember.

Revatīnandana: Well, he's with Kṛṣṇa, he loves Kṛṣṇa. Therefore...

Prabhupāda: Just like when cowherds boy were playing, they did not know Kṛṣṇa is God. They did not know. They did not care to know.

Revatīnandana: Yes, but they love Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: The love is there. When the love is there, that is spiritual.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: They think that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no need, but let me improve my bodily comfort." This is called illusion. He cannot improve, even by an inch, the burden, but still... But you can improve, or you can purify, your consciousness. That is open to you, oh, irrespective of bodily (indistinct). And that is actually happening. You have got a different body from the before. (indistinct) But everyone, your taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa says, "It doesn't matter what kind of body you have got-low born, or high born, or this born or that born. I have no such restriction. If you want Me, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), you are all My parts and parcels. Every one of you are equally important to Me." And similarly, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa also sees. He does not see the outward cover. He sees that "Every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So he is now forgetful of his real position. So let us help him that he may come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and become successful." This is our position. There is no question of bodily barrier.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (exits car)

Devotee (1): Someday by Kṛṣṇa's grace we'll put a big festival right here. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. When there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is no longer material. That is spiritual.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Those of us who have been blessed by your teachings, we still are conditioned to forget Kṛṣṇa. It's very painful when we forget. I know myself, I am still a rascal. It's very difficult when I forget. (break)

Prabhupāda: It is your duty to give protection.

Devotee (1): When he was very small, he came back from the temple one Sunday chanting and dancing, and finally we went to see what it was.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. The change is up to you; it is your choice. If everyone becomes God conscious, the world becomes the kingdom of God.

John Nordheimer: Many people have tried to change the world, but we see that they have failed. Many people have tried to see God, but they do not succeed.

Prabhupāda: That is because their purpose is not strong. That is due to māyā, forgetfulness. Just like darkness and light; if your light is strong, there is no darkness. But if you have no light, or if your light is not very strong, there is darkness. This is the principle: If you want to drive away darkness, you must bring light. That is the only medicine. You don't have to make a separate endeavor to drive away darkness. As soon as you bring light, darkness will go. The motto of our magazine Back To Godhead is: "Godhead is light, nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." This is also the Vedic

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is perfect intelligence. Therefore we say Kṛṣṇa is the perfect teacher. In the Fifteenth Chapter, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "I am sitting in everyone's heart. All intelligence, memory, is coming from Me, and forgetfulness also is caused by Me." So He is the supreme controller in every respect.

Jayatīrtha: Why are some people remembering and some people are forgetting Him?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: If Kṛṣṇa is the source of both remembrance and forgetfulness...

Prabhupāda: Yes. When Kṛṣṇa sees that "Here is a rascal, so let him forget Me." So He will give him intelligence so that he can forget Kṛṣṇa for good. Not for good—at least for some time.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the desire of the individual soul.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's directing you also. But these, how this direction takes place? According to your desire. If you want to be cheated, Kṛṣṇa will direct you how you become cheated.

Brahmānanda: From Him comes forgetfulness as also remembrance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You don't want to understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa will give you such direction you'll never understand Kṛṣṇa, life after life. So Kṛṣṇa has got two kinds of direction, according to my desire, positive and negative. (pause) Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). As, as you want direction, Kṛṣṇa will give you direction.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Insects, flying insects...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Who is giving direction? Who is giving direction that "Some men are coming. Fly away." They have got intelligence, how to protect. (pause) What is this tower?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Tower?

Devotee: Possibly a Coast Guard Tower.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (end of recording.)

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They accept one energy. We accept also that. But they, defect is they are beginning from the material. That is their method. Just like this weather is beginning from the light and gradually it is becoming dark. So darkest part or the dark part is called material. But the dark is beginning from light, not the light is beginning from dark. That is their method. They are thinking that from matter, consciousness is coming. Now consciousness is there. When it is covered, degraded, that is unconsciousness. So material means when the consciousness is forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Material means gradual development of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. And spiritual means full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa. Is it clear? Try to understand this. Darkness is coming from light. Where the light is not visible that is called darkness. This is not the nature of the sun, this covering, cloudy nature. That is not the... The nature of sun is light, but by the energy of the sun another thing is temporary created which is called mist or darkness. This is temporary. This is not permanent nature. Therefore material nature is temporary and spiritual nature is permanent. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to get out of this temporary nature and go to the spiritual nature, permanent nature. Nobody wants also this temporary nature. Nobody likes this cloudy atmosphere.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Something there is possibility of. Something..., somebody forgets more, somebody forgets little. But the forgetfulness is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's the platform of material nature.

Prabhupāda: Just like stealing. Somebody's pick-pocket. Somebody's dacoit. The stealing is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When we sleep, when we dream, are we carried away by the three subtle elements, mind, intelligence...

Prabhupāda: You are carried always by nature under different conditions. You're simply being carried by the nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). You are under the grip of material nature. Just like pulling the ear.

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: By our desires we are pulled?

Prabhupāda: No. You desire. There it is. That's how. It is not willingly because you are willing desires against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore she's giving chance, "Come on here. Take stool. Become hog. You wanted to eat stool. Come on." This is going on.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: It is simply covered by another energy which is called material energy. And that is māyā. Māyā means that is not actual, not factual. The example is given, just like the sun is covered by the cloud. The cloud is nothing but another creation of sun. But when the cloud comes, sun is invisible. Similarly this condition, forgetfulness, is my creation and when I am covered by this forgetfulness I become stones and atoms, like that.

Haṁsadūta: In Bhagavad-gītā, it says that the soul is immovable. In the Second Chapter there is a verse that says the soul is immovable.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: What does that mean exactly? Are we not moving? In that verse it says immovable and...

Prabhupāda: Sthāṇu, means fixed up.

Haṁsadūta: You mean its nature is...?

Prabhupāda: Unchangeable.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: He says, "I'm sitting in everyone's heart, and from Me comes knowledge, remembrance and forgetfulness." If you turn toward Him, He will give you knowledge, and you'll be able to see Him. But you have to find out who to turn toward. Then you can turn. So from saintly authorities, the line of masters and the Vedas, we find out where to turn. And if you turn properly, then by Kṛṣṇa's grace, you'll see Kṛṣṇa. He'll reveal Himself in the course of time.

Student (2): Have you all seen Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Revatīnandana: He asked if we have all seen Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: We are daily, every moment, seeing, every moment. Otherwise, do you mean to say we are blindly following something?

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I remember, I had this body. So I may forget. Suppose in my babyhood, what was the feature of my body, I do not know. But there was. My mother knows. He can, she can explain, "My dear child, you were like this, you were like this." So forgetfulness is also not that I did not exist. I may not remember my last birth. That does not mean I did not exist. So forgetfulness is my nature. I cannot remember even what I was doing exactly this time yesterday. If somebody asks me. I can generally speak, that "I was sitting." But actually, what I was doing, I'll have to remember. So the forgetfulness is our nature. Because I have forgotten... Death means forgetting. Just like in dream. At night, when we get another body and dream and hover, we go somewhere and talk with somebody, we forget about this body. And again, when I come to this body, I awaken, I forget the dreaming body. So I..., every day I am forgetting. At night I am forgetting this body, and daytime I am forgetting my night body. So forgetfulness is not the basic principle of knowledge. The things as they are we have to study. That body we change, but we are, as living entities, we are existing. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That forgetfulness is forced. He's, he's not happy.

Malcolm: If he would then, when he is a grown person, recapture or re-feel the link to his reason for being, he must go back in his experience or thought to the point at which he cried to feel again the feeling of being lost. Now, the Western youth seem to have been forced to accept their position, and the position that they have accepted gives them no freedom to go back and find the point at which they felt the experience of the thing they had lost. So in their minds they would say, "There is something missing. There is no God. But there is a God. Yet I must find him with my mind." And then they know through the search that it is only going back through their own years of experience to the point at which they had lost that they will find it. But for the Westerner it clashes with his total Western heritage, the thing imposed him upon by his senses which is that he may not isolate himself from his community in order to go back. And the young people cannot move because this point holds them.

Prabhupāda: No. The young people, they are moving. They are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no check. Because they are western boys, there is no check. Just like they're all Europeans, Americans. So how they are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the past. You forgot, but in the past you had life. Just like in the past I was young man. That's a fact. Similarly, but that young body is no more existing. Similarly, I had a past life but I have forgotten. That is the... Forgetfulness is our nature. Death means forgetting what was your first, past life. That is by nature you become forgetful because if you remember our past life and compare with this life... Suppose one was very rich man and if he becomes a poor, a cat and dog, then if he remembers, then it is very unbearable for him. Therefore nature helps him to forget. Forget. Otherwise he cannot do it. But the real problem is that we are eternal soul, we are changing our body one after another, birth and death. Apart from worldly happiness and distress, this birth and death, that is not very good process. At death time we have to suffer so much that we give up this body. And then again we enter into the womb of a mother. That is not very good situation. Then when come out there are so many tribulations, disease, then again old age. So people do not understand that he is passing... Especially when we are in other than human life. There are 8,400,000 species of life. Aquatics, then birds, trees, plants, insects, then beasts. In this way we come to human form of life. This is evolution. So in this human form of life there is chance of understanding the problems of life. In other forms of life it is not possible.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to understand the value of life. The modern system of education and civilization is so degraded that people have forgotten the value of life. Generally, in this material world everyone is forgetful of the value of life, but the human form of life is a chance to awaken the importance of life. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to the consciousness of self-realization, the foolish living entity, whatever he is doing is defeat for him. This defeat is going on in the lower species of life because they cannot understand what is the value of life. Their consciousness is not advanced. But even in the human form of life, the same defeat prolongs, that is not very good civilization. That is almost animal civilization. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānyā etat paśubhir narāṇām. If people are simply engaged in the four principles of bodily demands-eating, sleeping, mating and defending—that is visible in animal life also, so that is not very advancement of civilization.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Sudāmā: Actually, the other element is so powerful. These people here, because, even though they are part of Kṛṣṇa's family, but because they have forgotten, then we become influenced by their forgetfulness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Forgetfulness means māyā.

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Māyā is nothing. It is a forgetfulness. That's all. It has no existence. Forgetfulness, it does not stand. But so long it is there, it is very troublesome.

Sudāmā: I've been asked a question by some devotees sometimes that they don't feel happy. So even if they are unhappy, mentally, should, they still should continue in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I tell them, even if one is unhappy...

Prabhupāda: But you should show example. If you show example different way, how they will follow you?

Sudāmā: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Example is better than precept. Why you are living outside?

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Darkness means absence of light. That is darkness. It is the negation of light. Similarly, material life means forgetfulness of God. That's all... What is our spiritual life? We are simply trying to revive our understanding of God. That is spiritual life. And when you perfectly revive, that is spiritual. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...whatever you do, that is your defeat. Because you cannot see things in the proper perspective, therefore in darkness or in ignorance, whatever you do, that is your defeat. Therefore we see that so much advancement of education, civilization, but everything is defeat. Nobody's satisfied. Because it is defeat. It is not progress. It is defeat.

Bali Mardana: We have to be led by someone who can see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, if you led by another blind man, what is your benefit? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). And our thankless task is... Just like a blind man going, falling into the ditch, we say, "No, no. Don't go there. You'll fall down." But he becomes angry, "Why you are instructing me?" That is our thankless task. We have to do it. How we can see that this blind man is going...? He'll immediately fall and die. How we can remain silent? We must have to say. That is our business, that "For want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are going to die. Take it. Be saved." But they do not like it.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you want to be cheated, you go to the cheater. That's all. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Kṛṣṇa is intelligent, superintelligent. If you are a cheater, He'll cheat you. He'll cheat you. First-class cheat, Kṛṣṇa. But if you're actually sincere, then He'll give you the right thing. That is stated in the Bhag..., mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "Everything is coming from Me: smṛtiḥ, remembrance, and forgetfulness." If you are a cheater, Kṛṣṇa will give you such intelligence, you'll forget Kṛṣṇa forever.

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so it is so, "Birds of a feather flock together." The cheaters flock together.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Birds of the same feather flock together."

Karandhara: The thing is that our philosophy is as supportable as theirs, but because they are in control they have the dominance.

Prabhupāda: Who has dominance?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali-mardana: Or cloud.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Cloud. māyā is cloud. So what is that cloud?

Sudāmā: Forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That cloud is when a soul desires to become the master. That is cloud. (japa)

kṛṣṇa bhūlīya jīva bhoga-vañchā kare
pasate māyā tare japaṭiya dhare

As soon as a soul desires to be enjoyer, then he is immediately captured by māyā. (japa) (break) ...see the land?

Bali-mardana: You can go. I saw it yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bali-mardana: I think it is in the opposite direction of the temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...formation of water?

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He has already said. This forgetfulness is ignorance.

Guest (1): Yes, forgetfulness.

Prabhupāda: He knows that.

Guest (1): The sense of egoism, I and me and mine is ignorance. It's forgetting that God is everything and that you are nothing.

Prabhupāda: That God and you are different, because you forget God, (indistinct).

Guru dāsa: (indistinct) .... and we forget, so they must be different. We're impure and He's pure, so we're different.

Guest (1): Actually that's the best attitude.

Guru dāsa: So to understand how we're different means we're in knowledge, not ignorance. And then what to do with that understanding means that not seeming. You said it seems, but we're saying not seems...

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is very difficult for the Māyāvādī philosophers to answer, that everyone is God but when God becomes ignorant? And what kind of God He is that He forgets and becomes ignorant? In māyā. So māyā becomes better than God? Is it not? Then what is the definition of God? So many things. But they cannot answer. Just like you said that when you become ignorant (indistinct) God, how it happens? (indistinct). God, how God can be ignorant? And how can God become forgetful? It is contradictory. Then what kind of God he is, that he becomes ignorant sometimes?

Guru dāsa: And if it's Kṛṣṇa's yogamāyā that makes us forgetful and makes God forgetful, that means Kṛṣṇa's God.

Guest (1): No, no, He's the Lord of māyā. He, Kṛṣṇa's pure.

Guru dāsa: Kṛṣṇa's the Lord of everything.

Guest (1): Yes, of course. Kṛṣṇa never forgets.

Guru dāsa: Māyā's also Kṛṣṇa's servant.

Guest (1): Yes, of course.

Prabhupāda: Now (indistinct) That's right. If Kṛṣṇa does not forget, then Kṛṣṇa is God, isn't it?

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then why not take Kṛṣṇa līlā study? Why go to others?

Guest (1): Well, I have. I try to the best of my ability, I've read the Gītā, the Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa says, what Kṛṣṇa says, if Kṛṣṇa is God and Kṛṣṇa is never forgetful, then why not go to Kṛṣṇa?

Guru dāsa: He says he's read the Gītā and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So what has come?

Prabhupāda: Reading is not, I mean to say...

Guest (1): Of course not, reading is very (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: ...to understand Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), there is no more greater truth than Me. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), I am the Lord of all the planetary systems, sarva-loka. So why should you go to others if you think that Kṛṣṇa is God, there is no greater personality than Kṛṣṇa? Take the instruction from Kṛṣṇa. It is very easy.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Eternally liberated, they never forget Kṛṣṇa. There is no period throughout the existence... There is no question of existence. It is their all existence. Never touched by māyā, forgetfulness. That is nitya-mukta. (break)

Pañcadraviḍa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were talking that a person, he can come up to that position of nitya-mukta by either following the principles of sādhana-bhakti or causeless mercy, or you said there was also the question of kṛpā, the kṛpā-siddhi, that one can attain perfection...

Prabhupāda: No, that is sādhana-bhakti.

Pañcadraviḍa: One gets mercy by sādhana-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the stage of sādhana-bhakti... Sadhana-bhakti is for the conditioned soul. And siddha. Siddha means they are already mature. Siddha means nitya-siddha.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He does not forget, but he... Just like the same example. You call it forgetfulness or imitation. Just like the child was offering. He was not required to offer oblation, but he was imitating the mother. That is natural. According to Vedic instruction, we are all living entities. God is also a living entity. But He is chief. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13), (break) ...that He is the topmost living entity, leader of the all other living entities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The supreme one is maintaining all other living entities. So we are maintained. And He is maintainer. So sometimes... (to translator:) Yes, explain. There is... Sometimes it happens the father maintains the children, but the same child sometimes gives up the protection of the father. "Why shall I live under the guidance of...? I shall become independent." There are many instances in your western countries. He's happy being under the protection of the parents, but he rebels. He goes away. So that he can do. But if the father is very big, very rich, and the son leaves home and goes away to live independently, he suffers so much inconveniences and that is his choice.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You are so forgetful?

Bhagavān: No, I was looking for them.

Prabhupāda: Why? Why did you...?

Bhagavān: I left them on your bathroom door, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) Hmm. So this kind of leadership will not make any solution, if you do not know what is the real goal. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He doesn't agree if a man create or imagine a goal, he says, the real goal, the real things...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not imagination. That is another foolishness, to imagine a goal. If we imagine some goal, that is another rascaldom. We have to understand what is the goal of life from superior. Just like a child. He does not know what is the goal of life, but his parents know he must be educated. So goal has not to be imagined. Goal has to be understood from superior. So if the superior man is also blind, then he cannot lead other blind forward. If a blind man takes the position of superior, then he will lead these followers to the ditch only. That's all. (French)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: God is truth; what is forgetfulness of God, that is illusion. God is truth. Just like the sun is present all the time, twenty-four hours. But we say now there is no sun, at night. But that's not the fact. The fact is the sun is there; I cannot see. That is illusion. Not that God is not there. God is there. As exactly, same example, the sun is there at night, but I cannot see under certain condition. Therefore it is illusion. Our senses are imperfect; therefore sometimes we cannot understand or see God. If our senses are purified, then we can see God every moment. So, what is your idea of God?

Young man: I, I... Something that I see sometimes in everything, the sameness in everything.

Prabhupāda: No clear concept.

Young man: I have no clear...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The clear conception of God is that originally He is person. Just like the same example, the sun. We can see every day the sun. (aside:) Can you give me that 7-Up? The sun is there always, but at night we cannot see. At night we cannot see. That does not mean the sun is not there.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is... Because Kṛṣṇa is everything, his independence is also Kṛṣṇa. The man's independence is also Kṛṣṇa. So he is misusing his independence. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). He is using his independence not to do this. Therefore he is suffering. (Greeting someone:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...says, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "From Me there is remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness." So why Kṛṣṇa is interested to induce one to forget? Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they want to.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That independence. So he wants to forget. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, you do at your risk."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And suffer the consequences.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it the spirit soul which is desiring or is it just karma?

Prabhupāda: The desiring... After desiring, there is karma. First of all willing.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Become a crab. That's all right. This is their solace. This is ignorance. You don't like it, but "When I become crab, I'll like it." That is māyā's covering. Otherwise he cannot live. If the crab thinks that "I was king in my past life. Now I have become a crab," it would be horrible for him. Therefore he forgets. That is a concession of māyā. Forget whatever you have had. Just like here they try to forget by drinking, intoxication. That kind of forgetfulness is also happiness for the rascals. Nobody wants to be degraded. But if in degradation one forgets his past life, if that kind of happiness is happiness, you can do it. This is for the fools. The dog forgets that he was a prime minister in his past life, and his statue is now being worshiped in the memorial hall. And he has become a dog. (If) this kind of happiness is happiness, let him take it. Actually it is like this.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, all of these things are relative anyway. So whether I am a dog or human being, it doesn't really make much difference, because I'm still existing.

Prabhupāda: Still, you don't want to become a dog when you are a human being.

Paramahaṁsa: But when I'm a dog I wouldn't want to become a human being either.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So actually there is nothing material. When God consciousness is there, it is spiritual. This... In association with God, everything becomes spiritual. Just like there is a church and there is an ordinary house. People say, " This is church, God's place, and this is house." What is the difference? That is also made of bricks; that is also made of bricks. Why people go to the church? Why not to the house? So the conclusion is, when the atmosphere is surcharged with God consciousness, it is spiritual. Immediately. Otherwise, as soon as you forget God, then it is material. Material and spiritual means where there is no forgetfulness of God, that is spiritual. And where there is forgetfulness of God, that is material.

Jesuit: Hm. Sort of a figurative use of the word.

Prabhupāda: Not figurative, it is actual. Actually, God is all-pervading. Everything is God's energy. Therefore God is whole spirit. His energy cannot be material.

Jesuit: Yes, I can see that.

Prabhupāda: The material is, as soon as we forget the relationship with God. That is material.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is matter, but when it is used for God, this is spirit.

Jesuit: Well, that's why I say it is figurative use.

Prabhupāda: The same example, just like...

Jesuit: It still remains wood.

Prabhupāda: ...the church is made of matter, wood and stone, but it is spirit, because here there is nothing other business than God. So the real thing is, matter means forgetfulness of God. Read that, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is transcendental, this microphone, because it is being used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. The same flower, when you use it for sense gratification, it is material. The same flower when you offer to Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The flower is not different, but by the different use it becomes material and spiritual. I think I have said many times that there is actually no material existence. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means it has no actual existence. We create an atmosphere. That is māyā. Atmosphere of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Anartha. Anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam (SB 1.7.6). If this park is given to us, we can immediately make it Vaikuṇṭha. We know how to do it. But it is not given to us. The same electric energy is creating heater and cooler. For the cooler there is no different electric energy. And for the heater there is no different—the same electric. Similarly, the material and spiritual is coming from Kṛṣṇa's energy.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is life. This artificial life is no life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has described this modern civilization of artificial life. So he says, jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. He declares all these artificial way of life, advancement of material civilization, means advancement of influence of māyā. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. Expansion of the influence of māyā. Then? What is the result? The result is anitya saṁsāre, moho janmeiya. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyār vaibhava, tomāra bhajane badha. māyā means forgetfulness of God. This is māyā. māyā means the more you forget Kṛṣṇa, the more you are involved in māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So māyā's business is to cover you more and more as you forget Kṛṣṇa. This is māyā's business. So therefore, expansion of māyā's influence means forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Tomāra bhajane badha. They're all hindrances only to make spiritual progress and to understand God. So what is the net result? The net result is anitya saṁsāre, moha janmeiyā.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is general. But a devotee, because Kṛṣṇa has taken charge of him, even he does not remember Kṛṣṇa, still, Kṛṣṇa is there.

Trivikrama: "I carry what you lack..."

Jayapatākā: Kṛṣṇa said, "I am the cause of remembrance and forgetfulness."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Generally devotee dies remembering Kṛṣṇa, generally. But even if for material condition he cannot, then Kṛṣṇa is taken charge.

Pañca-draviḍa: What was the arrangement with Bharata Mahārāja?

Prabhupāda: And there is no question of hopelessness, no. We have to do our duty very seriously. Then everything is all right.

Pañca-draviḍa: So with Bharata Mahārāja, that was special arrangement?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We have come to give this message of Kṛṣṇa. That is our business. We are not tourists.

Michael Gordon: What does being a devotee of Kṛṣṇa involve? Does it...?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa involved means you are.... Every one of you, you are Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. But on account of your forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, you are suffering. Therefore our message is that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. You'll be happy." This is our message. Otherwise we have no business to bring the message to the forgotten persons, that "You have forgotten Kṛṣṇa; therefore you are suffering. You awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You'll be happy." This is our message.

Brian Singer: What does.... When you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, does it mean you come into the chapel, or can you lead the sort of life that we lead and still...?

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Forgetful does not mean that they... Suppose this child, he's hurt, and when he'll be grown up he may forget, but that means... That does not mean that he was not hurt.

Devotee (3): Hm.

Devotee (2): (break) ...for devotees, then they have no right to claim that they are philosophers or scientists.

Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇāḥ. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no knowledge. He's a rascal, immediately. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the definition given by... If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately miscreant, rascal, and lowest of the mankind. (break) ...may say that he has passed M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C.(?) and he's a philosopher. But we..., our test is whether he's God conscious. If not, he's a rascal. That's all. Immediately.

Hari-śauri: No good qualities.

Prabhupāda: No. Reject immediately.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: "Translation: I am seated in everyone's heart and from Me comes remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta and I am the knower of the Vedas."

Prabhupāda: So they do not go to the compiler of Vedānta. They go to a rascal. How they will understand Vedānta? Suppose I have written this book. If you cannot understand something, if you come directly to me, that is real. Why do you go to a rascal who has nothing to do with this book? If some rascal claims that "I am Vedanti," so your description should... Why shall I not go to the real compiler of Vedānta. Why shall I go to a rascal? That means they are rascals. They are being cheated. Let them take to Bhagavad-gītā and let them take to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. They will understand Vedānta. They're real Vedantist. But these rascals, they're avoiding Bhagavad-gītā and avoiding Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and claiming themselves as Vedantist. So if you go to a cheater you'll be cheated. That is your business. Read the purport.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri:

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham
(BG 15.15)

"I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed, I am the compiler of the Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas."

Prabhupāda: So you are searching, you are surprised how this direction is coming. Here is the answer, mattaḥ, "from Me." The answer is there.

Sadāpūta: A comparison can be made with things like this, and, say, a computerized factory. A computerized factory, there has to be direction all the time, or else it breaks down.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that direction is coming from Kṛṣṇa. He is all-perfect.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, the Brahman, there are... We are all Brahman, living entities. We are simply thinking "I am this body." So when we are... That I was speaking, liberation. When we come to the conclusion that "I am not this body," ahaṁ brahmāsmi... So you are already Brahman, but you are, forgetfully, you are thinking that you are Indian. That is māyā. We are all Brahman, but due to our ignorance, lack of knowledge, we are thinking "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am this," "I am that." That is māyā. So when you actually understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," that is the fact. Then that condition is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Now we are jīva-bhūtaḥ. We are thinking "I am individual person of this country, of this religion." That is jīva-bhūtaḥ. But when we understand that we are not jīva-bhūtaḥ, we are brahma-bhūtaḥ, that is our liberated position. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When one becomes actually in understanding that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then my all responsibility of this bodily condition immediately ceases.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It is made complex to serve some purpose.

Rūpānuga: It keeps the living entity forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. It makes māyā for the living entity; he forgets Kṛṣṇa with all the complexities.

Prabhupāda: Physically, everything is being done by heat and light. So fire is heat and light. The fire is not complex, heat and light but with heat and light everything is going on. You have physical subject matter of study, heat and light?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Because everything is being conducted by heat and light.

Hari-śauri: So the living entity's desire has become very complex due to his association with material nature?

Prabhupāda: He does not desire. He desires, and the matter helps. In the material world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That desire is simple?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, that he forgets. Death means forgetfulness. Just like accepting that I was existing in previous life, but now I do not remember. This is death. But I am existing, that's a fact. The same example. Everyone knows that he was existing as a child, he was existing as a young man. So because it is short period, I remember, but when the body is completely changed, the atmosphere is completely changed, we forget. But actually I exist continually. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the authoritative statement, that I am not annihilated on account of my body being annihilated. So they bury the body or giving some name, some tomb, that is the business of my relatives, my friends, my family members. But as I am, I am aloof from this. I have accepted another body. And then begin my life in a different way. So people do not try to understand this science, how it is happening. That is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we study Bhagavad-gītā very carefully, we can understand the philosophy of life correctly.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: "I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness.'

Prabhupāda: The Supreme Being, the Supreme Self, is situated in everyone's heart. That is being explained. Go on.

Hari-śauri: "By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas." Purport?

Prabhupāda: Yes, purport. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Purport: "The Supreme Lord is situated as Paramātmā in everyone's heart, and it is from Him that all activities are initiated. The living entity forgets everything of his past life, but he has to act according to the direction of the Supreme Lord, who is witness to all his work. Therefore he begins his work according to his past deeds. Required knowledge is supplied to him, and remembrance is given to him, and he forgets, also, about his past life. Thus, the Lord is not only all-pervading; He is also localized in every individual heart. He awards the different fruitive results.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If by serving humanity, you cannot raise him to the standard of understanding he's part and parcel of God and his main business to serve Kṛṣṇa, then it is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam. So our service to the humanity should be... He is in forgetfulness. He does not know what is his position. If you can raise him to the position that he is part and parcel of God... Unless he comes to the position of serving God, his material condition will continue. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. So, dharmasyāsya janma, parantapa. Aśraddadhānāḥ... Like that. Then that service is useless. If he continues, punar api janma, punar, then his service to the humanity useless. Therefore our service to the humanity should be aimed how to awaken his original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real service. (pause—someone says something—Hindi) It is... There is no benefit. Simply labor of love. That's all. And just like to make one Hindu from Christian. So what benefit you'll get? He is under wrong impression that "I am Christian," and he's brought into another wrong impression—"I am Hindu." But he's neither Hindu nor Christian. He's servant of God. So to turn the Christian, to bring him to become a Hindu, it is useless labor. What benefit?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tilaka, dvādaśa-tilaka. You just go and learn. (break) What is that? (break) Otherwise there is no death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Actually there is no death. This forgetfulness is death. We have forgotten: "Who was our father, who was our mother, where I was born?" That is death. And otherwise I am the soul, continuing. Just like in childhood so many things we did, but we have forgotten. The forgetfulness is death. The more one forgets, the more one is dead. Otherwise there is no death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā: "Never takes birth, never dies." Then what is death? Death is forgetfulness. So you can begin now. (break) ...big, big buildings, the same spirit as karmīs are doing. But this desire to construct very big building, when transferred for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. So we have got this tendency, everyone, to possess money, to have very big buildings and so on, so on. You do it for Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be bhakti. Otherwise karma. And karma means to be bound up by the laws of nature. So? What is...? (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...parāyanaḥ sudurlabhaḥ praśāntātmā koṭiṣv api mahā-mune. "O great sage, out of many millions of materially liberated people who are free from ignorance, and out of many millions of siddhas who have merely attained perfection, there's hardly one pure devotee of Nārāyaṇa. Only such a devotee is actually completely satisfied and peaceful."

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Pradyumna: It's Canto Five, Chapter Five, verse number seven. "Even though one may be very learned and wise, he is mad if he does not understand that the endeavor for sense gratification is a useless waste of time. Being forgetful of his own interest, he tries to be happy in the material world, centering his interests around his home, which is based on sexual intercourse and which brings him all kinds of material miseries. In this way one is no better than a foolish animal."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ. The selection of words in Bhāgavata are, from even literary point of view, perfect. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām (SB 10.14.58). Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na... This is literary. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavam. Again plavaṁ plavam. Anuprāsa. This is literary, anuprāsa. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. Padam. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. Just see literary arrangement. And full of meaning. This is Bhāgavatam. Any way you study, from literary point of view, from knowledge, from philosophy, from social, every-perfect. Therefore lokasya ajānato vidvāṁś cakre. Vidvān. One who has learned, Vyāsadeva, vidvān, the first-class learned person. The sātvata-saṁhitām—for the devotees, Vedic cream. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam (SB 1.1.3). Nobody can be like Vyāsadeva; He's incarnation of Nārāyaṇa. Where is such scholar throughout the whole world? Is there?

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You cannot make it zero. He's part and parcel of God. Because God is fact, then he is also fact. How can you make it zero? But out of frustration, these persons, they are trying to make it zero. This is going on. Zero means complete forgetfulness. Just like the tree is zero, but it is life. But he has become so dull that if you cut it, he cannot protest. That kind of zero. Actually it is not zero. It is condition of life.

Indian man (1): Surrender is not zero.

Prabhupāda: Why surrender is zero?

Indian man (1): No, surrender is not zero.

Prabhupāda: No. Surrender means "God is there; I am there. We reciprocate."

Indian man (1): Surrender is state of complete submission to God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Surrender is perfection. Just like that is the example. Finger is the part and parcel. If it works, then it is normal condition. If he does not work, then he's diseased. That is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). You understand Bengali?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Originally conscious. When there is forgetfulness, that is not. So unconsciousness is a covering of life. You develop this argument. There is no such thing as unconsciousness, but when the consciousness is covered, that is unconsciousness, negation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That becomes matter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we say, "matter." Absence of consciousness is matter, jaḍa.

Satadhanya: We say "covered consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Bhakti-cāru: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the body is matter, but still it is conscious as long as I am alive. So that means the life is consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Page Title:Forgetfulness (Conversations)
Compiler:Mayapur, RupaManjari
Created:23 of Sep, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=52, Let=0
No. of Quotes:52