Flesh (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"flesh" |"fleshes" |"fleshy"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: flesh or fleshes or fleshy not "flesh* eat*"@5 not "ate flesh*"@5

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not lost, but it is checked. Sometimes he is checked.

Revatīnandana: Because the tendency to revive again.

Prabhupāda: In that way again one has to... That brings the question of previous life. One was advanced so much; it was checked by some reason; he again begins from that point. Just like Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura was advanced in his previous life up to bhava-bhakti. Somehow or other, it was checked. But as soon as he heard the words from the prostitute, "Oh, you are so much after the flesh and similar, and bones and skin. If you had been so much eager for Kṛṣṇa, how you would have been disposed," immediately he came to that point and immediately left. I'll take (devotees offer obeisances)

Devotee (6): Śrīla Prabhupāda? The other day you talked about the spirit soul and his position in the brahma-jyotir, that there's no shelter there. Just like we go up, up, up into the sky (indistinct) there's no shelter there so you have to go to some planet. So I was thinking that the reason why our position is shaky is due to this body, but spirit, being restless can remain anywhere...

Prabhupāda: Yes, but there the shelter is transcendental bliss. The impersonal Brahman is not transcendental bliss. It is simply eternity. But we want three things: eternity, full knowledge, and blissful life. So there is no bliss.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well vegetarians are not animals. (laughter) In India, you'll still you'll find ninety-percent of the population, they're vegetarians, strictly. Always vegetarians. They're quite healthy, they're working. Therefore vegetarians are human beings. Vegetables, that food is meant for human beings. That is natural. For a human being to become nonvegetarian is unnatural. And to become vegetarian, that is natural. Just like our teeth, it is meant for cutting vegetables, fruit, not meat. You will find cutting by these teeth, meat, it will be difficult. But you take any vegetable, any fruit, you can immediately cut. Our medical laws says that anything eatable which you cannot cut with the teeth and smash it properly, it will not be digested. So fruits and vegetables you can properly cut even raw, not to speak of cooked. Raw vegetables and raw fruits, you can cut with these teeth and smash it and you swallow, it will be nicely digested. You get all food value. But you cannot do in that way, raw meat. It is not possible. You cannot take raw meat or bite one animal and take some flesh out of it. You cannot. But animal can do that. They are made for that purpose. But that is natural. If you take your natural food, if you live naturally, if you fulfill your natural desires, then it is natural. And as soon as you go against these things, that is unnatural. So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is your view of the future, the history, the future history?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is there, described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The, the governmental power will go to the rascals and thieves, rogues. And their only business will be how to exploit the people. So one side, by not sufficient rain, there will be scarcity of foodstuff, and one side, the government will tax like anything. In this way, people will be so much harassed that they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This will be done in Kali-yuga. And gradually, there will be no supply of grains. Especially rice, wheat, sugar, milk, these things will be finished. So people will be obliged to take flesh. These are all stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Vicitravīrya: What happens is they have large factories where they have thousands and thousands and thousands of chickens in a very tight space, and they breed them for slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Popworth: And young cows, calves are kept in a dark shed, deliberately kept in a dark shed and fed on an unnatural diet. They are not allowed to move, they are just kept in a space the size of their body. And for eight weeks, three months, they are fed on unnatural food, milk powder or something, devoid of certain necessary vitamins, to make the flesh whiter so that it gets a market. But that unfortunate beast, instead of walking in the fields under the open sky, he's shut him down.

Prabhupāda: All right, if you are so compassionate, you can kill those animals. But why you are maintaining slaughterhouse, killing nice animals.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: Yes. As long as you maintain a slaughterhouse, then there'll be people to breed animals to supply to the house of slaughter.

Prabhupāda: It is nice.

Haṁsadūta: As soon as there's no more slaughterhouse, then the animals are free. They can go everywhere.

Popworth: I think you are avoiding the point.

Revatīnandana: No. It's the solution. If you want to stop that treatment of animals, you stop the slaughterhouse. Otherwise, first you keep them in the field to slaughter. That's already brute mentality. That brute mentality means next I think, "I could get more flesh if I didn't let this cow move. So let me keep him in a case, cage, in the dark so they have lighter meat." This is one stage of brute mentality to another stage of brute mentality. The next stage of brute mentality... They're already killing the unborn child. Now, next, the child is born. That's the next stage of brute mentality. That is predicted in the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Now, their theory is that when the child comes out of the womb, then he gets the soul. Is it not?

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not within the womb.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: What kind of theory it is? For killing the child within the womb, they have discovered this theory.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Inhuman. And then cutting throat of the cows, that is not human. Is that very good reasoning?

Devotee: They don't think that the cows have souls, many of them.

Prabhupāda: That is their rascaldom. Rascals. Why no soul? What is the symptom of having soul?

Devotee: Consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they have no consciousness? Then children? They treat like animals. They have no soul? Then better send all the children to the slaughterhouse. Their, children's flesh is very sweet and palatable.

Devotee: They made a movie like that, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about people... They give up their lives and they are sent to this place where they are mashed up and made into meat, and the people eat them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do that in many hotels. They, it was in India done. The childcatcher? What is called?

Girirāja: Kidnapper.

Prabhupāda: Kidnappers. They kidnap and they slaughter, and mix with other meat. It becomes very tasteful. In hotel, one body found a finger of a child. In Kanpur.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śabdād anāvṛtti. In Vedānta-sūtra, śabdād anāvṛtti. Śabdāt. By vibration.

Prajāpati: But it goes on to say, "Then the word then came down to earth and dwelt with man as Jesus Christ." They say Lord Jesus Christ was the word incarnate.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Umāpati: Incarnate means flesh, having come down in flesh.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Prajāpati: From our Kṛṣṇa conscious standpoint, this means a person who is jagad-guru, who is fully living śāstra, and therefore non-different from the word of God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Because he is following the words of God, therefore he is not different from the words of God. It is practical. Just like a lawyer is not different from the law. Therefore he is called lawyer.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Indian (3): But even then they don't listen.

Prabhupāda: No. Even Gandhi refused. Gandhi was approached by the... "Mahātmāji, you can stop this cow-killing." He replied, "How can I stop? It is their religion." Just see. (break) ...kṛṣi go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is the duty of the vaiśyas.

Indian (3): Killing of the cow, there is no...

Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) But who supplies the cow to us?

Indian (3): They are Hindus.

Prabhupāda: They are Hindus. (break) ...travelling with a Mohammedan. At that time there was no Second Class, Inter Class or Second Class I was. So that Mohammedan gentleman, when he called for that food supply, so he was asking very... "Is there any meat, cow's flesh?" "No, no, sir. No, sir." "That's all right."

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is not unnatural. Caitanya Mahāprabhu tells this because this cannot be avoided. But by knowledge it can be avoided.

Dr. Patel: We were talking the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes, by knowledge. Yes. But "Because I am excited, therefore I have to do this," that is not good.

Dr. Patel: But then I found out the solution for this. As soon as you feel excitement... (break) Then you have nothing to do with it.

Prabhupāda: Therefore knowledge.

Dr. Patel: That I have started practicing this for some time. And I feel a great solace in that.

Prabhupāda: That has been recommended by Śaṅkarācārya, that "Why you are attracted by these forms? It is only a combination of flesh and marrow. That's all."

Dr. Patel: No, but who is attracted? The indriya is attracted. I am beyond indriya. That also you think. (break)

Prabhupāda: So long we are associated... The example I have given many times, that I am sitting on a car, and the car there is accident. I am not car. Still, I am excited, "Oh, my car is lost. Why you have struck my car?" There is so much quarrel. But it is a fact, he knows that "I am not the car." That is called abhiniveśa.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You used a very nice example, that the children, they are ignorant but that does not mean you kill them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Is there any meaning, "Oh, these are foolish children creating trouble, so I will kill them"? What is this?

Yogeśvara: There was a story in Time magazine last week. Everyone was in a big flurry about it. An airplane crashed in the Andes mountains, and they were stranded way up in the mountains for eighteen days without any food. So there were maybe fifty people on the plane and only eighteen survivors. So because there was no food they ate the bodies. They ate the dead bodies to survive. Then, eighteen days later they were saved. A plane came and picked them up and brought them back. So people are very, very much excited, "Oh, what is this amazing occurrence, that they ate human flesh?" But every day they are eating...

Prabhupāda: Cow's flesh. When it was?

Yogeśvara: This was about... Now it is almost a month ago, one month ago.

Prabhupāda: Where it was?

Yogeśvara: In the Andes mountains?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: High in the mountains.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Economy? What is that economy?

Yogeśvara: Because there's so much business that depends on the slaughter and the sale of animal flesh. Just like in India now, there is such a low economy that in some of the communist states, they've decided to export meat because it's good...

Prabhupāda: You can export after death. What is the wrong? You can export. Immediately, you take the cows after death, take the skin and take the meat also, skin and flesh, and put it into refrigerator and make export. We simply say that until the death of the cow, don't kill. Let us take the milk. That is our appeal only. What is the wrong there?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Also, the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were telling us in Geneva that in India it was, at least until the present day forbidden to eat cows, and that those who would eat animals, they would eat dogs or goats, like this.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Simply we request that "Don't..." You propagate this. "Don't kill, don't maintain the slaughterhouse." It's very sinful. It has got very awkward reaction on the society. Stop this slaughterhouse. We don't say that you stop eating meat. You eat meat, but don't take it from slaughterhouse. Or don't by killing. Simply wait, and you'll get the... How long the cow will live? Their maximum age is twenty years. So not that you have to wait for twenty years. There are many cows, eighteen years, sixteen years or ten years. So wait for that much time. Then you regularly get dead cows and eat. What is the wrong? You make this propaganda. You may, for few years, may not get. By that time, you can eat some dogs and cats. (laughter) Yes. The Koreans, they are using dogs. Where is the difference between you and the Korean? You can eat also dogs for the time being. Or hogs. You eat hogs. We don't prohibit killing of these small animals. We don't sanction, neither prohibit. But especially we request cow protection because it is ordered by Kṛṣṇa. Because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious people, therefore we have to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa, go-rakṣya. That is our duty. And economically also, it is very useful. Kṛṣṇa has recommended for nothing, it is not like that. It has some meaning, that if you have got cows. You see. They're... Our cows in New Vrindaban, they're giving more milk than other cows. Because they are confident that they'll not be killed here. They have got sense. Not like that rascal, "They have no soul. They have no sense." They have got sense. In other places, they do not give so much milk. But in New Vrindaban, they're so jolly, as soon as Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja calls, they'll come. Yes, just like friends. And they are confident that "We'll not be killed." So they are jubilant, and they're giving much milk. Yes. So in Europe, the cows are also good, but the cow-killing system also very good. So you stop this. We simply request that, that you'll get the cow's flesh. As soon as it is dead, we shall supply you free of charges. You haven't got to pay four thousand pounds or four, this, or so much money. You get free and eat. And why you are killing? Stop this slaughterhouse. What is the wrong in this proposal? I think he could not give any counter-reasoning.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What you have typed? Bring. That is Nārada's instruction, how by killing, one becomes killed. That is there.

Yogeśvara: Oh, Mṛgāri, the hunter.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: Mṛgāri.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you... Mām... This meaning, the flesh, is Sanskrit word is māṁsa. Mām. Mām means "me." And sa means "he." "I am killing this animal. I am eating. And he'll kill me and eat." This word is reminding that "You are killing this animal, and eating. So this animal will kill you and eat you." This is the meaning of māṁ sa. Māṁ sa khādati iti māṁsa. "He'll be given the opportunity to kill you." And when the animal is sacrificed before the goddess Kālī, this mantra is cited to the ear of the animal that "You are giving your life before goddess Kālī. So next life you are getting the chance of human being." So he's promoted. Because he is being killed before the deity, goddess Kālī, so he is elevated, and he's given the chance that "This man will become animal, and you'll kill him." So after understanding this mantra, who will be ready to kill another animal? This is the mantra. While sacrificing an animal, this is the mantra. The priest will say in the ear that "You, Mr. Goat, you are being killed before this goddess of Kālī. So your benediction is that you have to undergo so many lives before coming to the human form of life, but because you are sacrificing, as a reward for this, you get immediately human life." So he's not loser. "And this man who is killing you, he'll become a goat like you, and you have the right to kill him." This is mantra.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is that? (French)

Yogeśvara: For example, in that chapter, it also says that the word of God became flesh and that flesh was the son of God, Lord Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: But that means Jesus Christ is transcendental, not of this material world. (French)

Yogeśvara: They say... They accept... They think that Lord Jesus, however, was a human being. He was spiritual, but also he was part of this material world.

Prabhupāda: No, material world is part of Jesus Christ, but Jesus Christ is not part of material world. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that they had a human body, he had a material body.

Prabhupāda: That human body appears like that, but he had no this material flesh and blood. A material body, how there can be resurrection?

Yogeśvara: If it was material body, how is it possible for him to be resurrected? (French)

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Jyotirmayī: They said it is by the acintya power of God.

Prabhupāda: These, these rascals, they thought that "Jesus had a material body. Let us kill him." So Jesus Christ bewildered them more, to remain rascal, that they will continue to think that Jesus had a material body.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: May I ask a question? If you give us this wisdom, don't you meet now in the western world an opposition from the Christian side where the key word that this faith becomes a body, this faith becomes flesh.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We accept it.

Professor Durckheim: The incarnation. How do you understand incarnation? (German)

Prabhupāda: Now, this question, that spirit develops the skin, you said?

Professor Durckheim: Spirit? You see I have very often... I saw the difference.

Haṁsadūta: The spirit becomes flesh.

Professor Durckheim: The spirit becomes flesh.

Prabhupāda: That's it. So this we can experience, that as soon as the spirit is entered into the womb of the mother, they develops skin and the child develops body. So this is very practical, that first of all, not that simply by sexual intercourse a child is born. Then every the time sexual intercourse would have caused pregnancy. No. Unless the spirit soul is there, there is no question of developing body. Therefore it is natural that the spirit soul creates this flesh and bone and other things and develops into body. There is no difficulty to understand.

Dr. P. J. Saher: Yes, but I think the professor was asking how in our time in the case of a word, as far as spirit becoming flesh, not in the face of an ordinary child. I think I have understood your point?

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Those who are meat-eaters, they can eat other non-important animals, but cows must be saved, even from economic point of view. Here it is said that go-rakṣya. It does not say, Kṛṣṇa, "elephant-rakṣya." Elephant is a big animal, and at least fifty times more than cow, there is flesh. But it is not recommended. But the cow protection is recommended because it has got the miracle food, milk, and from milk you can prepare hundreds of preparation, all nutritious, full of vitamin A and D. So therefore it is recommended, go-rakṣya. It is not that meat-eating is stopped. Meat-eaters may kill other non-important animals but don't kill animal, er, cow. And besides that, from moral point of view, we are drinking milk from the cow, so she is mother. According to Vedic understanding there are seven kinds of mother: ādau mātā, real mother. Ādau mātā, guru patnī, the wife of guru, spiritual master. Ādau mātā, guru patnī, brāhmaṇī, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means the most intelligent class of men in the society. Who are brāhmaṇa, that is also mentioned there in the śāstra. So his wife. Ādau mātā, guru patnī... In general the understanding is, except your wife all woman is your mother. That is the instruction of Canakya Paṇḍita. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: "All women should be treated as mother." Para-dāreṣu. Para-dāra means others' wife. So every woman was married. It is compulsory. This is the Vedic system, that every woman must be married. It is the duty of the father to see the daughter is married, must be married. It is called kanyā-dāya. You cannot evade this responsibility. You must. The father's duty is, as soon as the girl is grown-up, immediately some boy must be found out and handed over: "My dear boy, I give you this girl in charity. You take care and give her protection." This is marriage. And he agrees, "Yes, I take charge of this girl." In our society, we get married.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: That was Nehru's contribution?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: Nehru started that slaughterhouse?

Prabhupāda: No, it is British contribution, the mlecchas. Before British period, even in Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse, neither the public used to take cow's flesh. Still in Mohammedan country, Afghanistan, these places, they do not take cow's flesh. Lamb, goats. In the Vedic culture, the cow is recommended to be protected, not other animals. Other animals, the meat-eaters can eat.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: So if we discriminate between the animals and the plants, well what about the discrimination between the human beings and the animals? Is it not all right to kill animals and not human beings?

Prabhupāda: No. You discriminate actually. You do not kill human beings, but you kill animals. Similarly you discriminate: instead of killing animals, kill vegetables. Importance. Just like this grass. There is enough supply of grass, but you cannot have enough supply of cows. Therefore discrimination is that it is better to live on grass than on animals. Now, still they are eating seventy-five percent other than animals. They are not eating only animals. Why not twenty-five percent more? In the market they are not eating animal. When the animal-eaters I see, they have got a little flesh, surrounded by salad and these peas and so many other things. Why don't you eat only meat?

Śrutakīrti: Because we require a balanced diet.

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot supply. If everyone eats meat only, then one day all animals will be finished.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It is everyone's problem. I don't want something, but something is enforced upon me. Just like you are now a young girl. You do not like to be old woman. But you will have to become old woman.

Carol: Become?

Amogha: Old woman.

Carol: Oh, yes. Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Nature will force you that after forty years of age you must become old, and you must not remain so beautiful. This is forced. But no one wants that. No woman wants that "I shall look not beautiful and my flesh should be flabby and no more luster. I don't want all these things." Why it is forced?

Carol: Suffering and pain leads people to God, doesn't it?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: That's obvious he meant only human beings, because he himself was killing animals.

Prabhupāda: Christ was killing animals?

Śrutakīrti: Well, he instructed his own disciples to distribute the fish. So he was also involved in killing of animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but he said that the fuits and vegetable should be your flesh. What is that?

Śrutakīrti: Well, that was before Christ. He never said that.

Paramahaṁsa: He also said that.

Śrutakīrti: Where does he say that?

Paramahaṁsa: He said that in the (inaudible). Yes. The Bible says that and Christ also spoke that, that the grasses of the fields and the fruits of the trees shall be your meat.

Prabhupāda: Then there is contradiction?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That you can see practically. They are not drunkards, they are not meat-eaters. From physiological point of view, they are very clean. They will never be attacked with so many diseases. Then they do not eat meat, means that is the most sinful, to kill others for the satisfaction of the tongue. God has given to the human society so many things to eat: nice fruits, nice flowers, nice grains, first-class milk. And from milk, you can prepare hundreds of nutritious foods. But they do not know the art. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse and eating meat. No discrimination. That means they are not even civilized. When man is not civilized, he kills one animal and eats because he does not know how to grow food. Just like we have got one farm land, in New Vrindaban. So we are preparing so first-class preparation from milk, the neighbours they come, they are astonished that from milk such nice preparation can be done, hundreds. So that means they are not even civilized, how to prepare nutritious food from milk. Milk-accepting that cow flesh and blood is very nutritious, that we also admit—but a civilized man utilizes the blood and meat in a different way. The milk is nothing but blood. But it is transformed into milk. And again, from milk you make so many things. You make yogurt, you make curd, you make ghee, so many things. And combination of these milk products with grains, with fruits and vegetables, you make similar hundreds of preparation. So this is civilized life, not that directly kill one animal and eat. That is uncivilized life. You take the-accepting that cow's flesh and blood is very nutritious—you take it in a civilized way. Why you should kill? It is innocent animal. Is simply eating grass given by God and supplying milk. And from milk you can live.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So, but they say that except man, there is no soul?

Jayatīrtha: But now they say that no one has a soul.

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, the modern psychological definition is that man is a flesh and blood organism and that you can know man by studying his bodily processes.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you give life to the flesh and blood?

Dharmādhyakṣa: That is a problem.

Prabhupāda: Then it is foolishness.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So many things. So many things. The first ignorance is that accepting this body as self. Everyone.

Cyavana: The capitalists are so anxious for money that they exploit this tendency of the living entity to enjoy by tempting him. Every year they create some new way to entice him.

Prabhupāda: And taxation. And the taxation is divided among them. The tax is meant for public welfare. Instead of public welfare, they divide it amongst themselves and enjoy wine, women, motorcar and flesh. That's all. This is going on. All this income tax-plundering process. This income tax means a plan how to take away everything from the actually earning members of the society. That is income tax. And that is divided amongst administrators. That's all.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. What they are collecting?

Harikeśa: Crabs, I think. Crabs.

Indian man (4): Swamijī? It is prohibited to consume, consume flesh, meat. It's because there is soul in the body and if we kill it, therefore we are doing a sin. I think it's because that we can't consume meat according to the Vedic literature. But what about plants, Swamijī?

Prabhupāda: Plants also, you... They are also killed. They are also killed. But this is... Plants are killed by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are not responsible.

Indian man (4): Therefore, if we say that we can kill some animal by the order of Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes, then you are not responsible. Suppose I kill one snake by the stick. The stick is not responsible; I am responsible.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Harikeśa: My body is ninety per cent water. The scientists say that this material body is ninety percent water.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: Human body. So I've got a watery body...

Prabhupāda: Ninety percent water?

Harikeśa: That's what they say.

Prabhupāda: They say. They are rascals. (laughter) So much bones and flesh and so many things, others. And ninety percent water.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cow is going to die naturally, anyway.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, if you want flesh, take that dead body and eat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't they see this, that just by killing a cow you don't get more cows. They're going to die anyway.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is going to die, but they are so voracious, they do not wait up to the death, and they have theorized that "Dead animal is dangerous to health. Now kill while it is in life."

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. The sun is heat. So the water is there from the heat. (break) ...these scientists, making research work to find out what is after atom, proton, neutron. They're searching out.

Acyutānanda: They're never satisfied with their achievements.

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot be because they did not find out what is the ultimate source. They could not. Therefore they cannot be satisfied. If... A really scientist, how he can be satisfied? The goal is not yet achieved. How they can be satisfied? But we are satisfied because we know that the goal, the cause, ultimate cause, is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...instruction is not blind. It is fact. Just like my body is there, and on account of my energy, so I am getting flesh, I am getting nail.

Acyutānanda: Yes, they cannot explain how the body transforms into...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (2): But did you hold any meetings or anything?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter (2): Were they receptive to what you...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was invited by Professor Kotovsky to talk. On my way to Europe I stayed there. So I have studied the people. They are very good, as our Indian people, innocent masses, they are also like that. But they are being sophisticated by their new philosophy, communism, artificial thing. But they are not happy. They are being forced to accept a philosophy. People are.... I have seen from their face. They look unhappy. Everything dependent on government. You have to accept. You cannot select your food even. Whatever nonsense things the government will supply, you have to accept, even you don't like it. And for us it was a great difficulty. We could not get rice, could not get flour, neither fruit. Only milk is available and flesh, as much as you like. So on the whole, it was artificial and people are not happy.

Reporter (1): Swamiji, why do you prohibit this tea or coffee also?

Prabhupāda: Because it is sinful.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (2): We believe God has form.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But, then next question will be "What is the form?"

Guest (2): We believe in a man, form of a man, flesh and bone, glorified and perfected.

Prabhupāda: So you believe that man is God?

Guest (2): Not man is God.

Prabhupāda: Then? God is like man. You mean to say the form of God is like man?

Guru-kṛpā: No, flesh and bone.

Guest (2): Flesh and bone, glorified and perfected.

Guru-kṛpā: Matter. God has a material body.

Guest (2): Of glory and perfection.

Prabhupāda: No, no, how do you glorify the flesh and bone? It is very hard? It is very nice to eat? Is that glorification?

Guest (2): It's not difficult, I don't.... My feeling.... God...

Prabhupāda: You don't bring your feeling. I mean to say, you must bring scriptural order. How do you glorify flesh and bone?

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (2): Well, Christ brought that about in the resurrection, when he was resurrected.

Prabhupāda: How do you say? Practically say that how you glorify a lump of flesh and piece of bone? That is my question. What is the glorification of a lump of flesh and a piece of bone?

Guest (2): God can do it. That's all I can say.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do it. Can?

Guest (2): I cannot.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Guest (2): But God can.

Prabhupāda: Then we do not...

Devotee (4): The question is, "How can we glorify God if He's made of flesh and bone?"

Guest (2): How can we glorify God?

Guest (4): There's a little bit of communication gap here. You don't quite understand our thoughts, and we...

Guru-kṛpā: We understand. He just asked you.

Guest (2): And we don't quite understand yours.

Guru-kṛpā: He asked you, how do you worship a piece of flesh and piece of bone?

Guest (2): It's a piece of glorified flesh and a piece of glorified bone.

Guru-kṛpā: How is flesh glorified?

Guest (2): It's perfect.

Guru-kṛpā: Flesh means material, temporary, imperfect.

Guest (2): I'm not perfect. This is not temporary.

Prabhupāda: So you bring some flesh from slaughterhouse and glorify it.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You do think that, that the form of God is man-made?

Guest (2): Well, all I can.... I just.... That's my feeling.

Prabhupāda: That may be your feeling, but that does not mean that is our feeling.

Guest (2): Well, okay. Your feeling does not mean that our feeling is wrong.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we don't say. I am simply asking that how do you glorify flesh and bone? I do not know. I am asking you.

Guest (2): I don't know. God knows, is what I'm saying.

Prabhupāda: How is that? You do not know your system of glorification?

Guest (2): Well, glorification comes...

Prabhupāda: I am asking—I am a layman—that you say "glorified flesh and bone," but you say, "I don't know."

Guest (4): Can I ask a question?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (4): Do you consider.... Is it your Deity? Do you consider that glorified?

Prabhupāda: No, the Deity is the form of the Lord, but when you say, "the bone and flesh," so how we can accept as Deity?

Guest (4): Now, you say that the Deity is the form of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Mām evaiśyasi asaṁśaya. Kṛṣṇa says. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiśyasi asaṁśaya (BG 18.65). Asaṁśaya, without any doubt.

Indian: But by taking initiation, will that speed up the process?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I inquired yesterday. (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...professor who's going to see you tonight, Professor O'Connell, he wrote a book review of Dr. Judah's book about our movement. And he said it was a very sympathetic book, Dr. Judah's, he said, and a little bit too sympathetic on one point. He made his statement. He thinks that our movement, the way we deny the flesh, he said, he called, "denying the flesh," it tends to make us a little cold in our relations to each other, and people in the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement are denying the natural affection that is somehow connected with the flesh.

Prabhupāda: No, we want to, what is called, reject that society. We cannot become sympathetic with everyone. That is not our policy. Asat-saṅga-tyāga vaiṣṇava ācāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was asked what is the general behavior of a Vaiṣṇava, He said that the first thing is that you should give up bad company. So these are bad company. We cannot have any sympathy. We cannot make any compromise with everyone. That is not possible. The modern scientists, they have made quarantine? Quarantine? What is that?

Hari-śauri: Separation.

Prabhupāda: Hah.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Well, then.... Trying to be perfect.

Satsvarūpa: Flesh, skin disease.

Prabhupāda: Perfect does not mean that they should eat meat and drink wine. That does not mean. What is his objection?

Satsvarūpa: I think what it comes down to is that he objects that we are against illicit sex.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) That means he is accustomed.

Jagadīśa: These professors sit around, discuss topics of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and drink wine.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Love? This is love or lust?

Satsvarūpa: He says there's a definite connection between the flesh and love, and you can't deny it, he said. I argued with him, but that was his viewpoint, that love is expressed through the flesh.

Prabhupāda: Then how he has become a doctor in Vaiṣṇava philosophy?

Devotee: He's a sick doctor.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would mean that the dog is a great lover.

Prabhupāda: No, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is explanation, what is the difference between lust and love.

Satsvarūpa: I told him if you observe the devotees, you'll see they have very affectionate loving dealings with one another, but it's not based on the flesh. We don't have to...

Prabhupāda: That is lust. Sahajiyā. Lust is going on as love. (break) ...reviewed Dr. Judah's book?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Basically, he said it was a good book and that our movement is an important movement. But he made that one objection.

Devotee: Then how does he explain how so many devotees can live together peacefully and happily if there's no reciprocation of love? Materialists can't even live together with their wife for very long.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, they're simply interested in human flesh. They're not concerned about all the animal slaughter that's going on. They don't take objection to the animal slaughter, the animal flesh. But when it comes to the human flesh, because they think they can enjoy, then they take some concern.

Prabhupāda: They are taking human flesh also. Gradually they will be accustomed to take human flesh. Carnivore also. (break) ...Mahāprabhu said, asat eka strī-saṅgī, strī-saṅgī, those who are attached to woman, he's asat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) The question might arise that a jñānī is someone who is aware of his spiritual nature, that he's not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Then the karmī is one who is, dehātma-buddhi, in the bodily concept of life, and he's desiring so many materialistic things. So how can it be that the karmī, who is after some material benefit, if he approaches Kṛṣṇa, he can be better off than the jñānī?

Prabhupāda: Because he has approached Kṛṣṇa.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: If he wants to remain in this material world, creates a situation and continues his desire, then he has to take... And when he understands that "To live in this material condition is very troublesome. Why shall I live here?" then he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and he goes back to home, back to... And so long he desires, "No, why not? If I remain in this situation, I'll be happy," then he'll have to get a body. Nature will give him all chances: "Get this body." If one is very pleased to take raw flesh, "All right, why artificially? Take this body, tiger." That's all. Nature is... God is so kind. Before we were talking of God's mercifulness, so if you are thinking that it is very happy life to eat, without any discrimination, anything, so immediately God orders nature, "You give him body of a pig. He can eat anything, even up to stool. Give him this body." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This yantra, this vehicle, this body, is given to him: "Yes, now you can eat anything, up to stool." And he is very pleased. He wanted it. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). He does not hesitate or feel any inconvenience. God is there, even within the heart of the pig, "My dear pig, you wanted a body like this. You have now got it, now eat, here is stool. You eat." And he enjoys. So the living entity within this material world, he wanted to enjoy, "I am the monarch of all I survey." So God gives him all facility: "Whatever you want, you do." Karaṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad yoni-janmasu.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmā is the origin. (break) ...a class of men, they are called vaidyas (doctors). They know all these herb, which herb is medicine for certain disease, and they sell in the market. Every one of these is meant for some medicine. They know it.

Hari-śauri: Is that kind of information given in the Vedas?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Āyur Veda. There is a book. Dravya-guṇa. All kinds of herbs, metals, even different kinds of flesh of different animals, they are mentioned. Hundreds of different kinds of animals flesh, how it can be utilized for certain disease, the descriptions are there.

Hari-śauri: They use flesh for curing things?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: They use flesh for curing diseases?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal-killing is only allowed when it is absolutely necessary, for medicine. Suppose by killing one animal hundreds of lives are saved, so that is allowed. One preparation is chagalaka-ghṛta. It is prepared... A live goat is put into the ghee with other ingredients, and that is a good medicine for tisis(?).

Hari-śauri: For?

Prabhupāda: Tisis(?) Tuberculosis.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But we are killing when they are young, when their meat is fresh. When the body is old, the meat is...

Prabhupāda: That you have to change. Fresh or dead, you're eating flesh, that's all. You wait till the death.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But the old flesh is not...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you do not..., you do whatever you like. So at least you can take free of charges a dead cow from us, and you can give us only the skin, and you eat.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: This should be the system.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's so reasonable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't want anything from you; you take it, the whole flesh. You take free. You simply give us the skin, we can utilize it.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You see. But they are so fools, rascals, they'll not accept it. And they'll give example, "Christ ate fish" somewhere; therefore we have to maintain the slaughterhouse. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we have to maintain slaughterhouse. Give the dog a bad name and hang it. Huh? This is going on. So we have to make vigorous propaganda for all this foolishness. Mūḍho nābhijānāti loko mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. So we are giving the best civilization, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. With little patience and perseverance you work on it, people will take it. Because there is nothing adulteration; it is pure. Rest assured, if you follow the principles and push on according to the prescription I have given, it will be accepted. May take some time.

Rūpānuga: But they will appreciate the purity.

Prabhupāda: It is pure. Actually, these fruits and some milk preparation are sufficient. You don't require any flesh. Is the flesh comparable with this nice fruit? (pause) Come on. Sit down.

Devotee: Is there one for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I am not so fool that I shall give everything.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're doing all these studies about science from a Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view, and yet the gopīs didn't care anything for this; they just simply wanted to love Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They did not care for anything except Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are all perfect. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Sadāpūta: Do we accept the way bacteria's reproduce, by fission, splitting in half? I know Kapiladeva instructs there are four different methods—the egg, the lump of flesh, etc. The scientists are saying that bacteria split in half and produce two daughter cells.

Prabhupāda: Bacteria is produced from fermentation. Sveda-ja. Just like nasty bedding, from your perspiration, if you don't clean, then bugs will come. Sveda-ja. In India, the Europeans they eat meat, and automatically bugs and germs come within their coat and shirt due to bad perspiration.

Hari-śauri: When you say that they're born from perspiration like cockroaches, does that mean that the eggs are laid by the female and then the atmosphere of perspiration enables the eggs to be hatched? Like that?

Prabhupāda: No, from the perspiration automatically it comes.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: Of course, both, perhaps, are victim of some kind of illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is illusion. That we are trying to describe. But this is going on. As the dog is thinking, "I am dog," the human being is also thinking that "I am American," "I am Indian," or...

Dr. Sukla: Then, perhaps, there is no difference.

Prabhupāda: No difference. That is described in the śāstra. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is made of... Everyone knows what is the composition: the bones, the flesh, the blood, the urine, the stool and so on, so on. The body, what is the composition? This is the composition. So if I identify with these bones, flesh, blood, muscle, veins, and stool, urine, so I am a living entity, I am all these bones and flesh and blood?

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: As this fire business is coming without my endeavor, similarly, the other part, distress, this is distress, other part, happiness, also will come. Why shall I endeavor for it? So my energies should be utilized only for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is civilization. And whole life, day and night, they are trying for material happiness, and that is not happening. The problems are increasing. No intelligence, mūḍha. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. They admit, the scientists, they admit that they are in ignorance. Simply bluff. Again one bluff, that Mars-going expedition. The business is going on in the Arizona, that's all. And after few years they will present some stone, "Now we went to Mars. There is no possibility of living there. Take this stone and sand and be satisfied for your millions of dollars that you have spent..." And they will say "Oh, we have made scientific progress. I have got this stone." Yo ko thako bhayargolihiya us ka tek lilaya(?). There is a song in Bengal that formerly anything European, sāheb, that is good. So one person is selling meat, flesh of dog. Flesh of dog nobody takes, at least in India. So he said that "This is not ordinary dog. This is the dog which was killed by Viceroy, that dog. And because Viceroy killed it, therefore it has become nice dog. You can eat it." So, anything these so-called scientists said, that is to be accepted. Without any common sense. This is your intelligence. But I am fool Indian, I don't believe it. (laughter) I immediately capture the point, why this rascal is talking of Arizona? That means the whole business is going on in Arizona.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān. These are the bhagas, opulences. One who possesses all these opulences, He is God, Bhagavān. Asty arthe vatup.(?) So all opulences. God is not shortage of opulence. All opulences. All the riches. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). This is God. He is the proprietor of everything. So unless you accept this formula, how you get conception of God? God is not a proprietor of three bighās of land. Here is God, sarva-loka-maheśvaram. That is God. God is not limited. He is unlimited. I can say I have got lakh of rupees, you can say you have got crore of rupees, but God says, "I am the proprietor of all the riches." That we cannot say. That is God's wealth. And because He is the proprietor, He is the enjoyer, supreme enjoyer, bhoktā. But we are manufacturing different bhoktās; therefore there is controversy. If we accept "God is bhoktā; we are simply dependent on Him," then the whole question is solved. The United Nation is the... (break) Yes. God says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He never said, māṁsaṁ din māṁ māṁsam.(?) (laughter) If you are God conscious, then you must give. Suppose you are here. If I invite you, then I'll ask you, "Sir, how can I serve you?" If you say, "Give me this kind of food," then that is real service. And you do not like something, and if I say, "Oh, this flesh is very nice. You take it," is that service? God demands this. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. So we are God's servant. We are giving with these groups of food. And after He's eating, we are taking. We are servant. We cannot say, "My dear master, I like this flesh. You take it." That is not service. So therefore fool has to do everything because God wants it. And if you say, "God is nirākāra. He has no mouth, no head, tail," then you can manufacture.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest (9): So you support actually government ban of slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Certainly.

Guest (9): After the cow is dead, if the flesh is taken, it is...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (9): You have no objection.

Prabhupāda: No. The vultures, they live on the cow's flesh, so what objection we have got? We don't... We say, "Don't kill."

Guest (9): After the natural death, not slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. If they are... Now you can do whatever you like. Our philosophy...

Guest (9): It is only ten-year-old movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: This is all very easy to understand. Mother means from whom the child is coming, is it not? That is mother. Everyone knows. So you see this whole world, wherefrom everything is coming, you see, practically, gross knowledge. I see a plant is coming from the earth. A tree is coming from the earth. And according to evolutionary theory... Not theory, fact. The dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). When his plant life is finished, he takes another body, insect life. So the mother is the earth. That's a fact. I am eating the things which are... Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. I am a life. I am taking either grain or I am taking flesh, the material is supplied from the earth. The animal also, he is also eating the grass. That is coming from the earth. The earth is the mother. That is a fact. Now we should be intelligent, that simply mother cannot beget a child. There must be father. So who is that father? The answer is here. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). So where is the ignorance?

Indian man: This is Brahman.

Prabhupāda: And again. Kṛṣṇa says aham, why do you interpret in different way.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you see. I shall immediately detect that here is a rascal. Because Kṛṣṇa says personally, and he says it is not to the person. Just see.

Mr. Malhotra: But Kṛṣṇa had been on this earth in flesh and bones.

Prabhupāda: That is history, Mahābhārata. And all the ācāryas, they have accepted, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka. Svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me. Arjuna accepts Him, Paraṁbrahman. You are Paraṁbrahman. Not that "Because I am your friend and I am accepting You as Paraṁbrahman, but all the ācāryas they have accepted." (break) ...mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam. Because I am talking with you as a human being, only rascals, they think I am human being." If you think Kṛṣṇa as having flesh and bone, then you become a rascal, immediately. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11), "I am not made of this bone and flesh. I am cinmaya, I am fully spirit soul." So one who does not know it, he is a rascal. So as soon as you will say that He is made of bone and flesh, that means you are rascal.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Mostly dog. So "Man is known by his company." Your constant company is dog, so what you are? These are the way. Actually, according to Vedic... Why they do not allow Europeans in the Jagannātha temple? Because they are untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, Europeans are untouchable. Muslims and..., untouchable. Not only foreigners, even in their own country, those who are not very cleansed, they are untouchable. Another's eatable things, they're untouchable. Just like hog. If you give him halavā, he will not take it. He will eat stool. Therefore hog is so abominable. Similarly, in your country there are so many nice foodstuffs. Milk is so abundant. You do not know how to utilize milk. You are cutting the poor animal and the rotten flesh you are... You do not know how to utilize the milk. Milk is nothing but blood. Those who are eating, drinking milk with different varieties of preparation, they are also utilizing the blood. But you are drinking blood and flesh directly. You do not know how to keep the animals alive and supply you constantly the blood and eat it.(?) (Utilize?) That you do not know. You are so uncivilized. The man in the jungle, they eat meat because they do not know—they are not civilized—how to utilize the by-products. So you're now in the same position. You do not know how to utilize the blood of cow scientifically. You are so uncivilized. You become... What is milk? The milk is nothing but blood.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: A madman working... Chāgale nā khāya, pāgale ki bale. "A madman, what does he not say, and a goat, what does he not eat?" There is a system like that amongst the Muhammadan aristocracy. They keep one hundred chickens. Each day they kill one chicken, and that flesh, chopped up and given to the ninety-nine. Then, next day another. In this way, when one is left, that the master eats. Concentrating from hundred to one, and then he eats it. This is Muhammadan process.

Rāmeśvara: What is the use?

Prabhupāda: They know. (chuckling) They think the hundred chickens' vitamin comes into one.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got money. The Jews have got money. They want to invest and get some profit. Their only interest is how to get money, no nationalism, no religion, nothing of the sort. Therefore it is not now; long, long ago... Therefore Shakespeare wrote "Shylock, the Jew."

Hari-śauri: Yes. "Shylock."

Prabhupāda: "One pound of flesh." The Jews were criticized long, long ago.

Hari-śauri: They were hated in the Middle Ages.

Rāmeśvara: America now has this policy that they will sell their guns to both sides.

Prabhupāda: That is all right, because they are doing business. So I am shopkeeper. Anyone pays, I shall... That is good.

Rāmeśvara: But no discrimination.

Prabhupāda: Why discrimination? I am selling. You come. Pay me. I shall give you.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, sometimes. And there was menstrual, menstruation period. He became so perfect, there was menstruation. (laughter) This rascal Ramakrishna did it. And he was going to make experiment of the Muhammadan realization by eating...

Hari-śauri: Meat.

Prabhupāda: ...go-maṁsa, cow's flesh.

Hari-śauri: I think you said that he...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Fetus. By sex there is some reaction of flesh and blood and something comes out.

Gargamuni: Chemical reaction.

Prabhupāda: So poor fund of knowledge. Accident? Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. "A man and woman becomes lusty, they have sex, and it, the body, the form, comes out. So you can cut it and then eat it." Very horrible condition of the human civilization. It is the only institution throughout the whole world who are trying to deliver people from this ignorance. We are the only. All bogus. They do not know anything, what is religion, what is happiness, what is spiritual life. Nobody knows. No... But that was covered. Now we are opening religion. The thing was there. It is not our invention, neither we can invent. But it is still unknown, and therefore they are unhappy. Their primary problem, where to live, how to eat, how to cover—that we shall take charge. Then what is the problem? You have got free boarding, free lodging, free cloth, and so much enlightenment. What do you want more?

Satsvarūpa: Some people don't like to live in the community.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: Everything. All the arguments you've been giving us, now this is a good opportunity to use them all.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the judgment was given Shylock, the Jew. When he was persistent that "I shall take one pound flesh from the chest," no, he said, "No, I cannot touch that." Then the judgment was, "Yes, you can take, only one pound. If it is one hundredth part of an ounce, it is more, then you'll be hanged. Or even it is less, you'll be hanged. Exactly one pound you have."

Hari-śauri: And only flesh. No blood.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Another. So when you have got less important life, why should we kill more important? Just like Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya, protecting the cows. That is a very important animal. He doesn't say goat-rakṣya or lamb-rakṣya. Those who want to eat meat, they can eat some unimportant animal, but don't touch cow. It is very important.

Pṛthu-putra: They mostly eat goats, chicken.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, in India, cow flesh is strictly forbidden. But it doesn't mean that they are vegetarian. They eat fish and goat, lamb, sometimes buffalo. But not to touch the cow. From economic point of view, from vitamin point of view, cow should be given... Just like from the milk of cow we can prepare so many nice things. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You'll get the path of yānti deva. You go to Mother and become a goat and be sacrificed. You cut throat of a goat now by satisfying Mother, and next life the goat will cut throat, yours. Go to mother. That's all. If you like, you can go. And if you think that is good—by worshiping Mother, "I am getting daily nice goat flesh. Why shall I go to Kṛṣṇa?" That's all right, but be prepared, that so many times you'll be also cut, your head, and this goat will get chance to cut your head. Mother is witness. Mother is for the goat and for you also. So you are cutting the throat of the goat, so why the Mother will not give the chance to the goat to cut your head? Why do you think like that, rascal? "The Mother is kind to me and unkind to the goat?" That means naṣṭa-buddhi, lost intelligence. If you think Mother, then you must think that Mother of the goat also. Why Mother will tolerate? This is justice. Actually the mantra is there, that "Goat, you are sacrificing your life. You get immediately chance of human being." That is his profit. He would have evolved himself in so many lives and then get a human life. But because he's sacrificing his life before Mother, he gets immediately an lift to become a human man.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but you did not become infected by our association.

Prabhupāda: But the danger is there. Danger is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore traditionally the sādhus will not go outside India. They won't cross the ocean.

Prabhupāda: And I took the risk. I told you the story, that I was keeping my foodstuff in the same Frigidaire that dog's flesh is here. What can I do? Circumstance. Therefore this rascal, Ginsberg, he used to say, "Swamiji, you are very conservative." And "You do not know what is conservative. I'm so lenient. You do not know what is the meaning of conservative," I used to reply him. If I was conservative, then for a single moment I could not stay here. Immediately I would have gone.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I am not interested in (indistinct). These I have already written some years ago. This is my idea.

Yaśomatīnandana: "One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulative rainfalls. Rainfalls are not under the control of the human being. The heavenly king Indradeva is the controller of rain, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulative rains from the horizon." (break)

Prabhupāda: So how things were explained? It has been explained by me before that. Why don't you take it? There is no need here.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, the parents are prepared to pick up the expense. That's all. Government curriculum is useless. They'll enforce kids to take eggs, three eggs...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's right.

Prabhupāda: ...in daytime, and four pounds flesh. Otherwise there will be vitamin, less vitamin. Or "Give them vitamins pills, this..." These... "Don't go to Yamunā. It is polluted."

Yaśodānandana: Even want to follow their textbook, follow their mundane textbook.

Prabhupāda: Keep this institution pure, not that we have to make it impure. Fighting, we want fighting. If we don't get, it will remain vacant, but we don't want to introduce impure. That should be a principle.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you want those spices now, little digestive spice?

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People will just eat themselves, eat each other.

Prabhupāda: First thing is... Māṁsa. "I'll kill you. I'll eat you." That time is coming. It has already... Russia, there is no food. They are very much proud of the so-called solutions of the world—but there is no food. Pita mata pech. (?) Therefore they are coming again to religion. They are realizing. There is a line even for flesh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Around the block, they say.

Prabhupāda: I have seen. We wasted so much time.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So take care of the bones as long as possible. Real life is here. Always remember that. And material world means there are simply all protecting bones and flesh together. They have no idea what they are.(?) Bones and flesh... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Apareyam. It is useless. Not useless-inferior. Real? That jīva-bhūta, which is sustaining. Thank you very much. Print books, and as I have given in my will, half, again print, and half spent for propaganda as you like. In this way go on. Jayapatākā, you are doing that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā, are you doing that? Half spending and half for printing?

Jayapatākā: In Bengal, because the people are so poor, so there we are giving the book and just taking five or ten percent profit margin...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Jayapatākā: ...for the small books, for propaganda purpose, so that we can reach many people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever propaganda require you spend, but print books and distribute. Whatever English book we have got, if we translate into Bengali, we have got enough stock.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: ...Vrindavan, he's going to Delhi. From Delhi he'll go to Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, Vrindavan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Where is the money? (Bengali) We cannot put fire in the flesh. (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra, you should get Prabhupāda ready, because the parikrama's ready. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little swelling around the...

Prabhupāda: Hm?