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Fallen (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 23, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Life is very short. Life is short, at the same time, so much disturbed by anxiety, by disease, by natural disturbances. Roga-śokādibhiḥ. Short life; that is also disturbed by disease and lamentation. Every moment there is something for which you have to lament. "Oh!" Roga-śokādibhiḥ. And disease. This body is a breeding ground of all kinds of disease. Life is short and it is so much disturbed. So how it is possible to practice? Therefore, this one practice—chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and hearing—that is very nice. And praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Please give me strength." Hare, "O Energy of Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa, I am fallen, I have no strength. Please accept me." That's all. "I have no qualification. I am frail. I am trying, but I am failing." All these appeals should be made. And Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful, He can do anything. Even we, we do not perform, trying our best, if we fail, Kṛṣṇa will help us. Just like a child tries his best, but he falls down. The mother takes up and, "All right. Come on. Walk." Like that.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: You are diseased. Take medicine. That's all. What is the use of tracing the history? Everything has his history, that's all right. But my immediate necessity is that "I am diseased. I want to be cured. Give me some medicine." But there is history. The history is this. Just like disease. You have fallen victim of disease. That means you have given chance to the infection. That's all. That is the sum and substance of disease. You are infected with some disease. That means you have given chance for that infection. There was a story in a medical journal. "Typhoid Mary." Typhoid Mary... One girl, whenever she was present everyone was being infected with typhoid. Then she was examined, that she is full of typhoid germs. But she was immune. But she infected wherever she went. The medical journal reported. So we should be careful not being infected. And that how you can become free from infection? These four rules.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The first scene should be that Nityānanda Prabhu and Haridāsa Ṭhākura. They were ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to go every day to, from one neighborhood to another and preach. So one day when they came out they saw at a distant place a crowd. So you have to make scene that a crowded place and these two brothers, Jagāi and Mādhāi, they have pickpocketed somebody and... Because they were debauches, so there was some howling and crowds. Yes. So Nityānanda Prabhu inquired, and people said that "These two brothers, they're born of a very respectable family, but they have now become debauches." So Nityānanda Prabhu, "Oh, they are so fallen? So best thing is to convert them first. Then Lord Caitanya's name will be glorious that He has delivered such rascals." So He went there to save. Then he said, "Who are you?" As soon as they came in, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, chanting, and these brothers said, "Oh, who are you?" "Oh, we are Nityānanda, and he is Haridāsa.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He came, "Bring My cakra. I shall kill these rascals immediately." He became so angry. Then Nityānanda Prabhu implored, "My dear brother, why You are very angry? They are the sample of this age. So if You become angry, then whom we are going to deliver? The whole population is full of like Jagāi and Mādhāi. So our preaching is for the most fallen. Why do You remember, why do You forget this? Don't be angry." Then both the brothers, they fell on the feet of Nityānanda. "Please forgive us. We have done wrong. You are so nice people. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa so innocent, and we are so..." This is the effect of seeing a pure devotee. Heart becomes soft. This is the association, effect of association. So they surrendered. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, I will accept you. I don't care for your past deeds, but you have to agree that no more this nonsense." That means before initiation one might have done all nonsense things. That doesn't matter.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (4): And Mahārāja, what are your impressions of the youth of this country?

Prabhupāda: I have no estimation of this country or that country. I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen.

Guest (4): Is secularism coming in way of spreading spiritual education?

Prabhupāda: Secularism is a bogus thing. You see? That is an indulgence, "Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever religion you follow, that's all..." No. That is not good. The state should be responsible for the spiritual progress of the citizens. Now, especially in our country, we say it is Hindustan, Bhāratavarṣa. So we are not giving the bhāratīya or Hindu spiritual cultural education. So that's a great loss of the secular state.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vibhinnāṁśa. Separated parts. Separated parts, vibhinnāṁśa. You can call it fallen.

Revatīnandana: But we usually think of fallen as being forgetful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is also forgetfulness. In the brahma-jyotir you are forgetful still. Because you are... That is stated in the śāstra, anādhṛta yuṣmad anghrayaḥ. Anādhṛta. They do not know how to adore the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is forgetfulness.

Śyāmasundara: So they become separated.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: The love is there. When the love is there, that is spiritual.

Revatīnandana: Yes. And then they are not fallen. That is not fallen.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: They're not separated any more.

Prabhupāda: That you should understand. Not that remembering or not remembering. Even in the spiritual world, they do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God.

Revatīnandana: The thing that was bothering me when I thought of this, that the brahma-jyotir, if it is jīvas, that they're all fallen souls, then I thought...

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Fallen anywhere. When Kṛṣṇa is forgotten, that is fallen.

Revatīnandana: Yes. But what I thought was just like in a room there is so many particles of light. Already inconceivable. And, then the whole brahma-jyotir is all fallen souls, and they become so inconceivable...

Prabhupāda: Not so fallen as they are in the matter.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Separated.

Revatīnandana: But not in their constitutional position.

Prabhupāda: They're not as fallen as those who are in this material.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not pure. They are not pure. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Aviśuddha. Aviśuddha means not purified.

Revatīnandana: Are they less fallen because they are doing some service by lighting it up?

Prabhupāda: It is clearly stated: aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Aviśuddha. Buddhi means intelligence, aviśuddha means unclean, contaminated.

Revatīnandana: Unclean intelligence. So they realize...

Prabhupāda: They think that they have become liberated, but śāstra says "No, it is not yet liberated." Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Still there is contamination.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: Just like rich man's son, they become. Everyone has got experience in every country. When he has no difficulty to get money, then what he will do? He will simply drink or invent some means of intoxication, naked dance. So they became very much perturbed. Venasyāvekṣya durvṛttasya viceṣṭitam, vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma... Kṛpāya, they were very much compassionate. They cannot see. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Therefore, Vaiṣṇava is always unhappy by seeing other's unhappiness. They know how they are going to hell. Just like any gentleman will be aggrieved when they pass on the Bowery Street, seeing their fallen condition. So if any gentleman can become unhappy by seeing such condition of people, what to speak of saintly persons who are supposed to be responsible for spiritual up...

Devotee: Ahhhh!

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is sure to happen because we are accepting so many men. But it is the duty of the disciple to be cautious. That "My spiritual master saved me. I may not put him again into these sufferings." (break) When the spiritual master is in suffering, Kṛṣṇa saves him. Kṛṣṇa thinks, "Oh, he has taken so much responsibility for delivering a fallen person." So Kṛṣṇa is there. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Because the spiritual master takes the risk on account of Kṛṣṇa.

Bob: So your suffering is not the same kind of pain that an impure person...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not due to karma. The pain is there sometimes so that the disciples may know that "Due to our sinful activities my spiritual master is suffering." (break)

Room Conversation -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: So come to Los Angeles and stay there for some time. I am going to Los Angeles tomorrow, so you can come. Live with us and you will be happy. We can guarantee you will be happy. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our Vedic mission is sarve sukhino bhavantu: everyone be happy. This is our mission. And we know how to become happy. That is our credit. We know. How to become happy we know. Therefore, you can inform others also how to become happy. Happiness is our birthright. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Living entity is ānandamaya, full of happiness, but they have fallen in a different condition. Therefore unhappy. Different condition. Just like fish taken out of the water and put into the land, a different condition, and it is throbbing, flapping, unhappy. Take it, put it in the water again, and it will be happy. That's it.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: Actually what we discussed is that every, even the elements, the atoms, everything is made of nothing but spirit souls in fallen conditions. Because everything comes from brahma-jyotir, which is nothing but spirit souls, and brahma-jyotir... Therefore soul never changes. So this manifestation is from brahma-jyotir. Therefore, it is made of souls. It is nothing else but spirit souls. Yesterday, a few days ago we discussed that.

Prabhupāda: It is simply covered by another energy which is called material energy. And that is māyā. Māyā means that is not actual, not factual. The example is given, just like the sun is covered by the cloud. The cloud is nothing but another creation of sun. But when the cloud comes, sun is invisible. Similarly this condition, forgetfulness, is my creation and when I am covered by this forgetfulness I become stones and atoms, like that.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Self-situated. When you are self-situated... Just like in the water you are taking bath in a pool. Something has fallen on the water. Suppose your key has fallen. Now you'll have to find out. You are just trying to settle up the water and see where is the key. So when your mind and senses are controlled, then you can talk of Kṛṣṇa. Before that you cannot talk. Because Kṛṣṇa is missing, with uncontrolled mind, senses, you cannot capture Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. The same example. When the water is agitated, you cannot see where your things have fallen. You have to wait to make the water calm and quiet. Then you'll see, "Here is my key."

Student (2): What are the ways in which... How can we get to Kṛṣṇa? How do you get to Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is very difficult to, to guru, but when guru comes, they also do not accept him. What can be done? They are so fallen. Only fortunate. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). So to go to guru, to Kṛṣṇa, that requires fortune. Kona bhāgyavān jīva. Some fortunate person. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). By the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa, he gets the seed of this bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). And when he's a bhakta, then he can understand what is God. (To disciple:) Get the light. Bhaktyā mām abhijānā... No, there. That's all right.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The one thing is they take it. Others will not take it. That is the difference. If... There is a picture; my Guru Mahārāja has..., one man has fallen in a deep well, and he's crying "Save me!" So another man dropped a rope, that "You catch it. I shall carry you." Then he'll not catch it. Then how he can be drawn. So... (break) ...mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is nothing more superior than Me." We are preaching the same thing, that "You are searching after God. You are, some of you are disgusted that 'There is no God,' but here is God. You take His name. You take His address. You take His daily activities. Everything is there." And that is our mission. And we started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in 1966. So when I registered this society, somebody suggested that "Why not make it 'God consciousness?' " And no, I want to give definitely what is God. God, they have got different conception. But here is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the Vedic injunction. "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And when He was present, He proved it, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have not introduced any new system of religion. That is not a fact.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Haṁsadūta: Fallen into māyā. Or misused.

Prabhupāda: Not lost. Independence still there. He can go back again to father, go back to home, back to Godhead. God says that: sarva-dharmān... "You have come here to enjoy your independence, but you have created a havoc, entanglement. Now, if you simply surrender unto Me, abide by My orders, I give you all concessions. Immediately you are free from all reaction and come back to Me." Therefore, God comes to canvass, He sends His devotee to canvass, that: "You give up your misuse of independence and become happy." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness program. But if you still stick to the independence, misuse of independence, you remain here.

Bhagavān: The trouble with these philosophies is these philosophers are simply stubborn.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And because now they're so fallen, they do not go, neither they know; therefore we are canvassing, "Here is a school."

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is our business. "Here is knowledge, come on."

Yaśomatīnandana: Still they won't go.

Prabhupāda: That is their misfortune.

Yaśomatīnandana: This is the only knowledge. Everybody else is distributing ignorance.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why "Should have created"? He has created already perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the Vaikuṇṭha. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planets. You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. God has given you all perfection. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation), everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect. Again, reviving your independence, you can become perfect, although you are imperfect now. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means raising the imperfect to the perfect platform. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other fools, they say, "We are perfect now." In a fallen condition also, they're thinking perfect. That is māyā. Āsurīṁ rākṣasīṁ caiva mohinīṁ prakṛtiṁ śritāḥ. Kṛṣṇa has made you perfect. There is no doubt about it. Just like some of our students. All of a sudden, they deviate, go away. So what is that? Our movement is imperfect, or he's imperfect?

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Actually, at the present age, nobody is interested in spiritual subject matter. Nobody is interested. So nobody is coming to surrender to you. Therefore you have to canvass, "Please surrender. Please surrender." This is our position. Otherwise, the... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One should come to the guru. But nobody comes to the guru, therefore guru has to come to U.S.A. to canvass. This is the position. Nobody went to me in India, but I had to come here to canvass you. Because it is Kali-yuga. Real process is one should go to the guru. But intelligent man goes: "My life is meant for spiritual realization. So I must find out a guru." That is his business, but people are so fallen in this age that nobody's interested in that subject matter, that he has got a spiritual value and he has to achieve this knowledge and make his life perfect. Nobody knows it. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught preaching. These rascals, they are so fallen, they'll never search out guru. So guru should go and canvass.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is experience. Suppose if I can say that "If you go hundred feet, then you'll fall in the water," is that very good scientific knowledge? It is a question of experience. Why do you take it as wonderful? "Oh, he said that if you go a hundred yards, you'll fall in the water. Now I have fallen in the water." That is your foolishness. Any fool can say like that. He must have little experience, that's all. That is not very wonderful thing. Neither it is creation by him. Experience.

Prajāpati: Then they can say, "Well if we can cure this blood disease, he will live."

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But the one thing is, who is poor? Admitting. We admit, of course, that God is specially interested with the fallen or degraded. But first thing is that who is fallen? Who is poor? That is to be ascertained.

Guest (1) (Indian man): But there is one more thing. I don't think God could be so partial that He would...

Prabhupāda: No, God cannot be partial.

Guest (1): ...that he would look only to the poor. But as there is a saying in Hindi that (Hindi) So they say, "When a man is poor, and he is miserable, then he remembers more God."

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- January 17, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: As soon as you fail to keep your promise, then you're fallen. You have to rectify yourself. Immediately you're fallen. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim (BG 16.23). That means you'll never get perfection. You'll fall down. You can cheat others that "I am in dress of a devotee, so I am..." What is your character? What is your actual value? That has to be judged. That is call bona fide teacher. All right, chant. (brief japa chanting) Any questions?

Devotee (1): Yes, one more.

Guest: Is the exterior clothing important?

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: They cannot convince them because they are so rascal, so foolish, that they have no brain to understand what is the distinction. They have no brain. Just like cats and dogs. That is their fallen condition. Yes.

Sudāmā: They believe that this misery is good.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have explained. Unless they believe it is good, how they can be put in to miserable condition? Just like some of the thieves. They go to jail. They think, "It is very nice. We haven't got to earn. We are getting food here, free of charge. Yes, it is very nice place. It is my father-in-law's house." (laughs) So unless they believe, how they can tolerate such tribulations? The worm in the stool, he believes, "This is enjoyment." You take it from the stool, put it here, no, it will go again. It thinks it is pleasurable. That is their position. Therefore they have been described as mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). When they believe it, "Oh, it is not good," that is their good fortune. Then they are fortunate. That is explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kono bhāgyavān jīva. When they come to that fortunate position, that is first-class.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is meant for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. Anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa kaila (CC Madhya 20.117). So it is recommended in the human form of life, first of all training as a brahmacārī, then he may remain as gṛhastha for sometime. The life is divided into four parts, twenty-five years. Suppose I live a hundred years: twenty-five years to become brahmacārī, remain as brahmacārī, and twenty-five years to remain as gṛhastha, family man, and twenty-five years as vānaprastha and twenty-five years as sannyāsa. This is system, Vedic system. Sannyāsa means vānaprastha is the prepāration for sannyāsa, and sannyāsa means completely dedicated to the service of Kṛṣṇa. This is our system. Just like you are spirit soul. Our business is not here. Our business in the spiritual world. Here, by circumstances you have fallen into the material condition, but if you take "This is all-in-all our duty," that is not advised in the śāstra. It is circumstances. We have fallen into, under certain circumstances, so we have to take care of. The real duty is to how to save myself from this material entanglement.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Actually, this is so true, Prabhupāda, because even in the western world, they are Christians. They may be fallen Christians, but they don't think they are Christ. They may be fallen. They may not follow the principles...

Prabhupāda: They say "Christ is God."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they also make mistakes.

Prabhupāda: They also make that mistake.

Yaśomatīnandana: No, they are mistaken. That is, they understand their position is servant, but...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This, this philosophy, that there's allegory, that Kṛṣṇa never danced with gopīs, that...

Prabhupāda: That is...

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is all right.

Dr. Patel: So the humanity has fallen today. That is what has happened.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: At last. Not only here, but...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, that is also another fault.

Dr. Patel: ...also another, America or England or, say, in Continent or European countries. Everywhere, including the all oriental countries as well.

Prabhupāda: Where is...? Mr. Shah is not...? He's not come today?

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then according to Swami Nārāyaṇa's principles, I am a fallen.

Dr. Patel: No, no, no, sir.

Prabhupāda: Because I am always surrounded by young girls.

Dr. Patel: No, no, that is... Swami Nārāyaṇa sitting with the women but the sādhus...

Prabhupāda: Then why you said...? Don't you see...?

Dr. Patel: Listen, you are arguing in such a way that there will be a flash between us two.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anna-vastra, anna-vastra-dhana. Charity means to give in charity anna and vastra and cows. (break) ...give in charity some paper, one hundred rupees. (laughs) Another cheating. And he is also satisfied, "One hundred rupees." What is this one hundred? It is a paper, a piece of paper. (break) ...earned, black market, white market. Because when one does business, he has to do it, but it should be purified. I have seen the Marwaris, they do that. Although when earning money, they don't care, they do anything, but they give in charity. (break) ...purify the body by taking bath, similarly, the wealth is purified by the charity process, giving it to the brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. He accumulated much wealth. He brought in a big boat, all gold coins. So... So he distributed fifty percent to the brāhmaṇa and Vaiṣṇava and twenty-five percent he gave to the relatives, and twenty-five percent he kept for his personal emergency. This is example shown by Rūpa Gosvāmī. (break) Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). So where is that vaiśya, giving protection to the cows? Although they were village men, they were very rich. That is the old Vedic civilization. Now you go to the village—all poor. The cows are skinny, people have no home, no nice cloth. This is the position. And we are still advanced, advanced. They are proud of "advanced." And here is the... Just hear the description of the village, with cows only. So how much fallen we have become, we can just imagine.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...even the richest man, their wife has no bangles. You see? And they are jewelries. Jewelries. Cow, butter, throwing butter like anything, and silk sari and enough food grains. What is more want for material advancement? That is real material ad... You have got everything, material needs. (break) If a man can feed his wife and children, then he is successful. There is no question of charity. There is no question of charity. But here it is said they were also giving in charity. (break) ...stopped to become real brāhmaṇa and give instruction to the society, and they also stopped giving charity to the brāhmaṇas. So therefore the society is so fallen. There is no instruction from the brāhmaṇas and no charity from the kṣatriya and vaiśya. (break) ...proṣita bhārtṛkā. By the dress a woman is recognized. When she does not dress very nicely, it is to be understood that her husband is out of home. When there is the vermillion, that means she is married. When the, what is called, division? Siti. Siti is in this side, then she is prostitute. The dress, when the woman dresses with white dress, they are widow, no husband. Yes, in this way by dress...

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Even in summer it is not possible.

Girirāja: (reading:) "...cannot safely walk a city street or sleep without fear of burglars and the government has fallen far short of the actual standard of a legitimate administration." (break)

Prabhupāda: We are criticizing strongly in our paper. (break) ...command a position. If you manufacture government like that, it will never be capable.

Girirāja: "But it's said in all authentic, revealed scriptures, wherein it is declared that the purpose of civilized human life is to live together in peace and harmony so that everyone can advance progressively in spiritual life." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...purpose of life. But they do not know what is the purpose of life. They have taken the idea of cats and dogs, simply sense gratification. Now, where, how there will be good government. (break) ...all leniency to the Mohammedans to get vote. That's a fact. (break) Mahābhārata, anywhere, or Rāmāyaṇa, you'll never find a woman is elected on the topmost post.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Certainly. These rascals, the priest, they do not guide them. They are also fallen. Otherwise, Christian religion is very nice. If they follow. So many times they asked me. "Yes, if you follow your Christian religion, you'll be perfect." Caitanya Mahāprabhu proved devotional service from Koran. Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The Khān Vaiṣṇavas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it requires the devotee who can explain from any godly literature about God. How rascal they are! "Jesus Christ ate fish. Therefore we shall maintain big, big slaughterhouse." Just see the argument. Then, in the Bengali, mosa makta kanan (?). There was a mosquito, and one is asking, "Bring a cannon." "Bring a cannon." Mosa makta kanan. Jesus Christ ate somewhere. There was no food available to eat, might have. Accepting he ate, but that, does it mean that you have to maintain slaughterhouse? Just see. And besides that, he might have done anything. He's powerful. He can eat. Therefore the other day I said, "He can eat the whole world." But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction. That is Christianity.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Hm? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: So when one has fallen too low in the material life, how can he come back to his original condition?

Prabhupāda: By surrendering to God, Kṛṣṇa.

M. Lallier: Is it possible if we are, for example, a fly, to, to become religious.

Yogeśvara: If one has fallen so far that he has taken the body of a fly or a mosquito, can he still return to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. As he degraded from the body of Brahmā to fly, similarly, he can also ascend from the body of a fly to the body of Brahmā.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We, because of our fallen condition, do require many mechanical means by which we can offer one another respects and to teach one another examples of scripture. For example, we are asked to bow our bodies down to show respects, or to call one another "prabhu," to understand that each person is a spiritual master to the other. How is a... How are the boys and girls to learn these things in manners of decorum and manners from the sannyāsīs, for example. How are they to offer respects to their godbrothers. And, uh... (break)

Prabhupāda: You can. You behave like that, others will learn.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tato vimukha-cetasa indriyārtha. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "I am simply thinking of these rascals. For me, I have no problem. All problems solved." Naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyās tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ. "I am not afraid of this material world because I have learned how to enjoy life simply by thinking of Your pastimes. But I am unhappy." Soce. Soce means unhappy. Why? Tato vimukha-cetasa. "These rascals who have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have made huge arrangement simply for sex." Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). "I am thinking of these rascals, how they can be delivered from this fallen condition." So the Vaiṣṇava has no problem; he has got Kṛṣṇa. But he wants to preach to save these rascals. This is Vaiṣṇava's duty. But if he is fallen himself, how he can save others? That is not possible. Then it will be andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31), one blind man is leading other blind men. What is that? They will all fall into ditch. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, bharata-bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41), janma sārthaka kari': "First of all you be perfect, because you have got opportunity, and then do para-upakāra. Then go to other countries and deliver them." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Not that you remain blind and go there.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Hare means, "O the energy of God," and Kṛṣṇa, "O God, kindly accept me again. I am fallen in this material world." That's all.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She says that she sees it as a mantra, and from her point of view it seems like we're repeating this mantra over and over again, and it's something like hypnotism. For example, in some tribes there are different rituals. They are chanting different things, and she would like...

Prabhupāda: That is her opinion. She is not authority.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She would like an explanation.

Prabhupāda: This is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). Find it out.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Brahmānanda: Does that have something to do that Kṛṣṇa appeared there?

Prabhupāda: Puṇya-bhūmi, pious land. Still, so fallen, whenever there is a question of spiritual meeting, thousands, lakhs, will come. You have seen Kumbha-melā?

Brahmānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: You have seen?

Śrutakīrti: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I've seen pictures.

Prabhupāda: Very poor men, still, they gather, sixty lakhs, without any advertisement.

Brahmānanda: Here you have to advertise to get six hundred.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Yoga student: Then preaching in Iran should be essentially to those people who are fallen away from their traditional path.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is fallen. They are simply amending and concoction. That is not good. Why they should amend? (break) ...himself in what relationship with God?

Yoga student: With God? He presented himself as the last expression of the divine revelation in the West.

Prabhupāda: No, what was his relationship? Just like Christ, he presented himself as the son of God. So what is the position of Muhammad?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Then, if the original path is followed, why it is named Sufism?

Yoga student: Because there are those who have fallen away from it, just as in...

Prabhupāda: Who has fallen, the Islam or the Sufist?

Yoga student: I think the formalists have fallen away, like the jñānīs in Hinduism. Just as there's a dispute between the Shaivites and the Vaiṣṇavaites.

Prabhupāda: So who are fallen, the original Islam or the Sufist?

Yoga student: The Sufis are the original Islam.

Prabhupāda: Sufis? What? I do not follow. Sufis?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, if is the original, why they named differently?

Yoga student: Because there are those who have fallen away from it, and they are the ones who use this name. The Sufis don't use the name about themselves. It's used by others who wish to...

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Sufism? Literary meaning?

Yoga student: Well, Sufism in a sense is what bhaktism is in the Hindu context.

Prabhupāda: Bhakti means to offer service to the Lord. Does it mean?

Yoga student: Absolutely.

Prabhupāda: So then if the Lord is to be served, then He must be a person; otherwise where is the question of service?

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No. If one wants to follow Koran, let him follow strictly that. No halfway (indistinct).

Guest: Then preaching in Iran should be essentially to people who have fallen away from their traditional path.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is fallen. They are simply amending, concoction. That is not good. Why they should amend? Mohammed presented himself in what relationship with God?

Guest: With God? He presented himself as the last expression of the divine revelation in the West.

Prabhupāda: No, what was his relationship? Just like Christ, he presented himself as the son of God. So what is the position of Mohammed?

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: If the original path is followed, why it is named Sufism?

Guest: Because there were those who had fallen away from it.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: There are those who had fallen away from it. Just as in the Hindu...

Prabhupāda: Who has fallen, Islam or the Sufis?

Guest: I think the formalists have fallen away like the jñānīs in Hinduism. Just as there is a dispute between the Śaivites and the Vaiṣṇavites.

Prabhupāda: Who has fallen? The original Islam or the Sufis?

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: If it is original, why it is named different?

Guest: Because there are those that have fallen away from it and they are the ones who use this name. The Sufis don't use this name for themselves, it's used by others who wish to condemn them.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Sufism, literal meaning?

Guest: Well, Sufism in a sense is ah, what bhaktism is in the Hindu context.

Prabhupāda: Bhakti means to offer service to God. Does it mean?

Guest: Oh, absolutely!

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is my rascaldom. Why I shall be misguided? I must know who is the right person.

Guest (2): They are fallen from. A lot of people in India, they have all misguided and misleading, their own adjusted, their own...

Prabhupāda: I have to gather knowledge from my superior. (Bengali) You came last night?

Guest (2): Ah, no, last evening.

Prabhupāda: Oh, last evening? What is your...?

Guest (2): He told to come at nine o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. What do you want to say?

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Can't, can't, can't." That's it. (laughter) This is going on. The best intelligence is that "We are hearing so much about the spiritual world; there is so much happiness. Why not try one life? Like cats and dogs, I have tried so many lives. Why not sacrifice one life? Where is the loss there?" But no, they are so many, fallen, they'll not accept.

Satsvarūpa: One man wrote a book about our movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and he said one tragedy of this movement is that if a young boy or girl takes to this movement and later decides to try the material world again, he will have ruined his chances for a career, (laughter) and it'll be too late for him.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: And when the God is there, living entity's also there. This... This much you try to understand. Because God and living entity, they remain together, as two friends. God is trying to save this fallen friend. That is the information from Upaniṣad. So when God is there, the living entity is also there.

Rūpānuga: So Paramātmā and jīvātmā are always together.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can we say that the living entity is present within the atom by consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Hm? No. Consciousness will gradually develop according to the bodily situation.

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You see all these young boys. They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And they are becoming purified from the mode of our life. And these swamis and yogis preached so many years, not a single person was purified. They were drinking; they were having sex. How they can be purified? And in India even, these things are going on, the land of Bhagavad-gītā, the land of Kṛṣṇa. If you want to read Bhagavad-gītā, you take it. You follow it. Then everything will be done. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati. Api te su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. These things are there. You may be fallen, downtrodden, but if you take to Kṛṣṇa's instructions, then kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. Very soon you'll become... Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). These things are there. And nobody is serious to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They'll talk all nonsense, but he'll not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is going on. So our task is very difficult, and especially all these prohibitive rules: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking or chewing pan. So who will accept this philosophy?

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This kind of understanding at the present time, at the present time... (Hindi) So we give reference, that "Present time, everyone is fallen." But truth is always the same, not at present time. So the real truth is that ideal man of character there must be. Because at the present moment there is no character, there is no moral education, therefore we have to adapt according to them, no. The pukka moralist, he must be moralist. It doesn't matter that "People at the present time, they do all immoral activities; therefore we have to adjust." No. Strictly one should be moralist. There is no question of present time or past time. That should be real point of view. Then?

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, harmonious coordination. But the śūdras were hated like anything, and they became Mohammedans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low-grade...

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Varnāśrama college, that training factual brāhmaṇa. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a brāhmaṇa, he must act as a brāhmaṇa. If one is proclaiming as a kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Otherwise, there will be no restriction, and a śūdra will claim to be brāhmaṇa. That will create a disturbing situation. In Pṛthu Mahārāja's time it was strictly prohibited that... That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ. So if one is claiming to be brāhmaṇa he must be brāhmaṇa. That is another way of reforming the society. And nowadays everyone is a śūdra, and somebody is claiming, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." Formerly the brāhmaṇas (were) strictly following. They would not accept... In the śāstras it is said that the brāhmaṇa in bad time may become a kṣatriya. Just like Dronācārya. He was brāhmaṇa, but he became a kṣatriya for certain reason, and acting like kṣatriya, although he was respected as brāhmaṇa, but he was acting as a kṣatriya. So it is advised that brāhmaṇa may take the profession of a kṣatriya and up to the vaiśya. But if he takes the profession of a śūdra, then he is fallen. Then he is fallen. So this cultural institution should now be introduced. And the other countries, they are still respectful to the Indian culture. That's a fact. I have studied. So if we keep ourself in our, what he has mentioned, samsriti?

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Never seen again.

Paramahaṁsa: No one has seen them.

Prabhupāda: Just see. This is their... It is the most fallen country. No freedom. No freedom at all. Horrible country.

Gaṇeśa: Why don't the people revolt if they're so unhappy?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are revolting, but they are now so much suppressed they cannot... Sometimes there is revolt. Sometimes there is upheaval.

Paramahaṁsa: Not a big upheaval because they are terrorized. They are afraid that if they revolt, then they...

Prabhupāda: They will be killed.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: But at present the caste system in India isn't actually representative of the original varṇāśrama dharma system. The original system was a cooperation, organized cooperation between four kinds of men which are naturally there in society. Just like now we can see that some people are working as laborers, some people are working as merchants, and some people politicians and lawyers, some are teachers. Originally they were organized so that the priests, or priestly order, were benefiting everyone by their teaching. And so that they could fully concentrate on that, they were not engaged in working for food and money. But what happened in this age, was that the higher caste became fallen, and they misused their high position, and instead of helping everyone by their teaching, they misused the position, or exploited the position, simply for selfish ends, so there became a conflict between the...

Prabhupāda: Vested interest.

Amogha: Vested interest. Yes. So then there was conflict between the lower and the higher and it broke down. So what we're teaching is not actually the caste system as it is now or it was recently, but...

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The first thing is: what wonderful thing he has done, that he is God? People have no common sense. We accept Kṛṣṇa as God. There are so many wonderful things done by Kṛṣṇa. Now what has he done that we accept that he is God? He has fallen in love with his secretary; any common sweeper also becomes.

Paramahaṁsa: That is his līlā.

Prabhupāda: The sweeper's līlā. (laughter) (long pause)

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes if we go out to preach and we go away from the association of devotees, what can we do to make sure that we...

Prabhupāda: You go at least two. Don't go alone. That is the system. When you go to preach, you must go at least two. If possible, more than two. Don't go alone. That is not the system. (pause) This Guru Mahārāja (Guru Maharaj-ji) cannot go back to India?

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fourth class. This is the proof. Fourth-class men administering... Just like misadministration not immediately detected. After some time, when the case is unmanageable, it is detected. Therefore fourth-class men. Simply these Western people, they know how to earn money by hook and crook. So, so long the money is there it is covered, the fourth-class men. And when the money is finished, they are exposed, fourth-class men. They're simply covered by money. No social structure, no spiritual understanding, no character, nothing of the sort. Still India, so fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully. And in the Western countries after six months' marriage, divorce. Are they not fourth class? Even the husband and wife cannot continue peaceful life, what to speak of others. Now this rascal Jawaharlal Nehru has introduced divorce in the Hindu society. Otherwise in the Hindu society separation between husband and wife is not even dreamt of. That, it cannot be. However there may be quarrelsome, but there is no question of separation. Husband and wife, they fight, everywhere. I have seen. My father and mother was fighting.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, one boy in Sydney, he has been a devotee for a few years, three or four years, but now he has fallen away because of lusty association, I suppose, or bad association. So is this unwilling or willing, because he has become attracted to women again?

Prabhupāda: That is one of the defects, our society, that women are there, and one falls victim of these women. And it is not possible to keep the society strictly for men. That is also not possible. But actually no woman should live in the temple. That is the...

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is. Everyone is prone to fall down. But that percentage is very low, say, one in five hundred. We have got about ten thousand students all over the world. Out of them, they have fallen about ten or, say, fifteen, that's all.

Guest (2): You means you have ten thousand students who used to be addicted to something?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Addicted to everything—illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. And now they have given up everything.

Guest (2): And those who relapse, can they be treated again?

Prabhupāda: Again?

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: For children-kill them. This is Kali-yuga. They are killing their own children and patting a dog. Just see how much fallen they are, and they're passing as civilized. Fourth class. Complaining of overpopulation, and the dog gives birth at a time half a dozen—there is no overpopulation, welcome; we shall maintain them. Huh? They're giving twice in a year, or once in a, even once in a year, that is no overpopulation. A man gives one or two birth, it is overpopulation. Formerly they are begetting hundred children. At that time there was no complaint of overpopulation. At that time, the description in the history is kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). On account of good rains, the earth used to produce immense necessities of life. Just like this portion is maintained with sufficient water, there is green everywhere. So if there is sufficient rain, everywhere you can do. Where is the question of overpopulation? (break) ...population you work for growing food. No. Some of them are becoming hippies, no work. And some of them are working for manufacturing tire tube, tools, that's all. Where is food? Still there is food, but they'll not work for this, for growing food.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything necessary as we have prescribed. If you think that it is not necessary, unnecessary, then you under the māyā. Why do you take that, "Is it necessary?" That means you are not strong enough. You cannot follow; therefore you say, "Is it necessary?" You are considering. That means you are becoming prey to māyā. As soon as you ask this, that means you have already fallen a victim of māyā.

Devotee (1): Kṛṣṇa says "without doubting."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: So how to get those people who are immersed in māyā to become serious? When we go out and we preach our saṅkīrtana movement, how to get...

Prabhupāda: They will become gradually. Not all of a sudden. They are purchasing one book. They will read, and gradually they will be elevated. You go to school, but all of a sudden, you cannot say that "I am M.A." You have to wait. That is called dhairya, utsāhād dhairyāt. One should be very enthusiastic, at the same time, patient. If you think that "I am very enthusiastic; still, I am not getting the result," be patient. Niścayāt.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: He is upstart. (Dr. Copeland laughs) He says mālāja pare śālā.(?) He is abusing a person who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa. He is such a rascal. Mālāja pare śālā. Śālā is abusive language. But he said mālāja pare śālā. All the Vaiṣṇava sampradāyas, they chant the beads, and he is speaking śālā, abusive language. How fallen he is! That is the difficulty, that our system is accepting the previous ācārya, authority. So anyone who does not follow this principle, he is upstart. He is not accepted as authority. So Kabhir is not an authority.

Dr. Copeland: Does that mean you go back to Śaṅkarācārya?

Prabhupāda: No. Śaṅkarācārya is also not authority because he does not follow the ācāryas. Of course, Māyāvāda philosophy was there always, but that was never taken very seriously. Vyāsadeva is the authority. So Vyāsadeva is not Māyāvādī. He is Vaiṣṇava. We belong to Vyāsadeva's sampradāya, Brahma-sampradāya.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...fallen from their original culture. Still, we have seen, as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa conscious festival, thousands and thousands of men... That we have experienced.

Gurukṛpa: But in India it seems that no matter what you tell them, they don't change their ways. They have their...

Prabhupāda: No, they believe in Kṛṣṇa, "He is God." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That they believe in.

Śrutakīrti: But that's what the Christians say. "We believe in Christ," but they don't follow.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That will not help. (break) ...giving sacred thread on the Pāñcarātriki-vidhi, the same principle. There is a little spot, fire. Fan it. The process of fanning. But the fanning is stopped; then small spot of fire also extinguished. It will have no effect because the small fire cannot do anything. It must be blazing fire. So our this process... We are accepting from the most fallen condition. Because he has little spark of fire—he wants to get Kṛṣṇa consciousness—so our process is: "Fan it." And then it must be blazing fire. But if you say that "Now that small fire is sufficient," that will not act. It must be blazing fire. A small fire is the potency. But potency should be brought to... Just like wood. There is fire. Everyone knows. But that will not serve your purpose. Fuel wood, unless there is fire... So there is fire, but it has to be increased. The wood... First of all set fire. Then there will be smoke. The smoke is also not fire. Smoke is another condition, symptom of fire, but smoke is not fire. The smoke must come into blazing fire. Then it can act.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Nitāi:

devahūtir uvāca
nirviṇṇā nitarāṁ bhūmann
asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt
yena sambhāvyamānena
prapannāndhaṁ tamaḥ prabho

"Devahūti said: I am very sick of the disturbance of my material senses, for because of this sense disturbance, my Lord, I have fallen into the abyss of ignorance." Tasya tvaṁ tamaso 'ndhasya...

Prabhupāda: There is no purport of Devahūti?

Nitāi: "Here the word asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt is significant. Asat means 'impermanent,' 'temporary,' and indriya means 'senses.' Thus asad-indriya-tarṣaṇāt means 'from being agitated by the temporarily manifest senses of the material body.' We are evolving through different statuses of material bodily existence sometimes in a human body, sometimes in an animal body—and therefore the engagements of our material senses are also changing. Anything which changes is called temporary, or asat. We should know that beyond these temporary senses are our permanent senses, which are now covered by the material body.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them prasādam. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (Indian man): How do you advise Indians who are here and who have fallen to some extent in the materialistic world? They did not leave... Basically, they left their homes, most of them, to educate themselves. When they came here, they educated themselves, and they don't want to go back. Basically, they have fallen into the materialistic world. What advice you render them so that they get out of these clutches and go back and serve here or in the country but they should be devotional to the Almighty God?

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of here and there. You can become advanced in spiritual life anywhere if you follow the principles. That we are teaching. We are opening centers all over the world. You take the advantage of our teaching, our books, our center. Then it will be all right. They are following, these Europeans and American boys. They are young boys. They are giving up meat-eating. Do you give up meat-eating? Why Indians, you should learn meat-eating? They are giving up, and you are learning to eat meat.

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but you are fallen. Who take birth in high family or in opulent, that is the fallen condition. That is not successful con... But they are taking, "This is success. I have got so much money. I have got so much prestige. This is success."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fallen condition.

Prabhupāda: That is fallen condition.

Devotee: They think that is the success of life.

Prabhupāda: They think. They are foolish. They can think like that. Generally, that is... Not that devotees are not opulent. No, that is not. But this materialistic opulence means fallen condition.

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they are devotees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they are devotees, not fallen.

Prabhupāda: They can fall. Everyone can fall. (break)

Tripurāri: ...says that a sannyāsī should not take, be anxious for disciples but should only take those who are qualified. But sometimes, when there's no one qualified, he takes a risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who does not like to take the risk, they do not take the risk of preaching. But one who takes the risk, he is recognized by Kṛṣṇa immediately, "Oh, he is taking risk." But he must know where to take risk and where to act foolishly. Just like Nityānanda Prabhu took the risk of being injured. But He was certain that "I can deliver him." That is...

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anitya soṁsāre, moha janamiya, jība ke karaye gadha. Anityad means we shall not be able to stay. Unnecessarily, we are becoming involved in this material world. Now, those who built up this nation, where they have gone, nobody can say. Because after this body is fallen, where he is being carried, nobody knows. He is carried by his work, fruitive activities. Therefore they do not believe next life. Finished. (break) ...gentleman, he was very well known, brother of Rabindranath Tagore. Rabindranath Tagore was poet, and he was artist, Abanindranath Tagore. In our childhood, in a meeting, he said that "Why should we bother about the next life? Let us enjoy this life." I remember that. Most people think like that. Carvāka Muni advised like that. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. "Just enjoy life." "I have no money to enjoy." "Beg, borrow or steal. Bring money. Purchase ghee." "I will have to pay." "Ah! Why do you think like that?" "Then next life I will suffer." "Don't think like that. Your body will be finished. Who is coming here again?" What is that tower?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, Mohammed also has got... Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued in Koran. He proved there is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. He proved with the Pathans. Yes.

Dr. Patel: Otherwise the Christianity is just our way, I mean, absolutely Vaisnavism. It has been wrongly preached and wrongly initiated in India. That is why it has fallen to disrepute. Otherwise Christianity is just Vaiṣṇava-dharma. Nothing else, to my mind, the way I have studied, I mean the New Testament and all the Christian, all the things. Now, the sermon of Christ is nothing but the preaching of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: I never criticized. I simply said that positive side, God consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness totally.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Therefore this process is recommended. Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, not with ordinary public. Ordinary public—"Go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and dancing." Never argued, neither He discussed Bhāgavatam. For ordinary public-four hours' kīrtana, chanting and dancing, bas. And then give them sufficient prasādam: "Take prasāda." This process... Because unless he has got little śraddhā, he will simply put some false argument and waste your time. Not in the beginning. Mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. First of all create him a devotee a little. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa-harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21)—only. Because this is Kali-yuga, people are so fallen, so downtrodden, so rascal, cats and dogs. It is very difficult.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Spark. Yes. Fire, big fire and spark fire—both of them fire, but one is big and one is very small. So our relationship with God is eternal. At the present moment, on account of contact with this material energy, we have forgotten our relationship with God. Therefore our life is problematic. We are facing so many problems. So again, if we revive our original consciousness, then we shall become happy. So this is the sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, the process how to revive our original consciousness. There are different processes, but at the present moment people are very, very fallen. This is called the age of Kali—means most fallen. Most fallen. The so-called material advancement is not the solution because God is eternal, we are eternal, and in the material condition we are changing our body. On account of our ignorance we are thinking "I am this body," but I am not this body. I am that spark, spirit, part and parcel of God.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Transcendental platform. And from transcendental platform, we come to the spiritual platform. These are the stages. So in this age, because people are so fallen and in the śāstra a special recommendation that give the people directly spiritual platform... That direct spiritual platform is chanting of this holy name of God, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. So if we cultivate this practice on the spiritual platform, then immediately we realize our spiritual identity, and God, and it becomes very quickly successful.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You just learn it first of all. Vedic culture is that we are living entities. Some way or other, we have fallen in this material world and encaged in this body or other body. So material world means the spirit soul is wandering throughout the universe under material conditions. And the Vedic knowledge is to get him out of this material condition and take him again to the spiritual world. This is Vedic knowledge.

Guest: And bhakti...

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-yoga is the direct method. There are many methods recommended. Karma, jñāna, yoga, and at last bhakti. They are different steps of the same staircase going upwards, and bhakti-yoga is the topmost level.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No, culture... They adopt real culture. What do they know about culture? They're killing their own children in the womb, and they're cultured? Worse than the animals. The animals do not do that. These rascals, they are cultured? So wretched and fallen, and they are claiming to be cultured.

Harikeśa: So you can't culture a superior man unless you are one yourself.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: It's not possible to culture a superior man unless you are one yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all be yourself a cultured man, a gentleman. You are worse than animals. What animals cannot do, you are doing. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...man is defined by Cāṇakya Paṇḍit.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is all right. Guru is representative of Kṛṣṇa, but why one should bother himself for pleasing Kṛṣṇa? Answer this.

Devotee (1): 'Cause our real position is to serve Kṛṣṇa, and because we've fallen in this illusion of the material energy, so we forgot our position.

Prabhupāda: We shall do it otherwise. Why shall I please Kṛṣṇa? We are making scientific progress. What is the use of bringing God?

Devotee (2): Because we shall never become perfect or see the answer.

Prabhupāda: That is begging the question.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the kṣatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśāya ye bahir-artha... (SB 7.5.31). And durāśāya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Business. So is that...? The business is the occupation of brāhmaṇa? You are already fallen. How he can criticize others?

Indian woman: That is all, brāhmaṇas, all brāhmaṇas, there is no big knowledge. That is Śiva. Śiva is the head.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Śiva is the head, but whether you are brāhmaṇa? That is the question.

Indian woman: They don't know, understand.

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa's qualification is there—śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam and jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). Everything is there, the symptoms. So you are doing business, the occupation of the vaiśyas or śūdras, and how you are claiming to become brāhmaṇa? The... Who is a brāhmaṇa, that symptoms is there in the śāstra. And not only the symptoms, Nārada Muni has said, "If these symptoms are found elsewhere, then he should be accepted according to the symptom."

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Unless he is perfect, he cannot remember Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. That is not possible. That is theory only. He must be perfect. Somehow or other, he fallen, so Kṛṣṇa gives him the chance. That is special concession for devotee. Some way or other, you become devotee. Even if you cannot finish the whole job, if you fall down, still, there is guarantee that you get your birth in a very good society. That is the prerogative.

Jñāna: What about like Mahārāja Bhārata?

Prabhupāda: That was also. If Mahārāja Bhārata... It was punishment and reward also. Mahārāja Bhārata, although he became a deer, he remembered that he was such and such exalted position but "I became attached to the deer and I forgot my regular duties."

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: That was also. If Mahārāja Bhārata... It was punishment and reward also. Mahārāja Bhārata, although he became a deer, he remembered that he was such and such exalted position but "I became attached to the deer and I forgot my regular duties." Mahārāja Bhārata, he became so much attached to the deer, he forgot his regular duties. Therefore he was punished. But he remembered that "I was in such exalted position. On account of my attachment to the deer I have fallen." Therefore he rectified himself so that in his next life he became completely silent so that "I may not fall down," Jada Bhārata. This association, material association, is so dangerous, so he remained just like a dull madman. That's all. He was talking with nobody; he was not mixing with anybody. Whatever one would do, he did not protest, but his knowledge was full.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The European economic problem is failure.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually this oil crisis has been of great help to the Communists, because because of this oil crisis the world economy has fallen, and as people become frustrated, more and more people are turning towards communism.

Prabhupāda: But what the Communist has done for the world benefit?

Harikeśa: Well, it's a nice philosophy.

Prabhupāda: In India there are many Communists, but the price of foodstuff increasing daily. What they can do?

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If he says, "No, none of my students are efficient," "Then why you are preaching? If you cannot make any one of your students as efficient, then why you are preaching, wasting your time?" No, no, these rascal, they, their face should not be seen even. They are so fallen.

Indian man: But now they all afraid from your stick.

Prabhupāda: Stick?

Indian man: Prabhupāda, they all thought many times that "Prabhupāda he criticize us." You know, they say. We said, "Yes, you are made to be criticized."

Devotee (3): Your stick is Bhagavad-gīta As It Is.

Prabhupāda: They say? They say?

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1975, Bombay:

Girirāja: That's in the morning, because of the night dresses. But after the śṛṅgara is changed for the day, you can see.

Prabhupāda: How He's sat tight to call everyone to come and see. Hm? The municipality came to drive Him away.

Dr. Patel: You see the present municipal, I mean, administration has fallen into the hands of rogue rascals and horrid people, you know, because of these so-called arald(?) franchise... (end)

Page Title:Fallen (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:12 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=81, Let=0
No. of Quotes:81