If you follow these principles, controlling the senses, truthful, clean, full of knowledge, believing in the śāstra and God, and vijñānam, practical application of knowledge in life. Vijñānam... Simply to know is useless. You must practically apply in life. That is called vijñānam. Practical examination. Those who are science students, in BAC, they have to give, pass theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge also. Simply theoretical knowledge, "So much hydrogen, oxygen, makes water," that is theoretical. But when you mix up hydrogen, oxygen gas, and actually prepare water, that is called practical. So that is science. Science means simply theoretical knowledge is not sufficient. Observation and experiment. Experimental knowledge. That is called vijñānam.
Experiment (Lectures)
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Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the seed-giving father of all living entities in any form." Sarva-yoniṣu. Sarva means all, 8,400,000 species and forms. So Kṛṣṇa is the father, and all living entities are part and parcel of the Lord. They have different dresses according to different karma, but actually, every living entity is part and parcel of God, sons. So suppose a father has got ten sons and one of them or two of them are useless. So if the elder brother wants to make some experiment by killing the younger brother, would the father be pleased? No. Father will be sorry even the intelligent boy is killed or the dull boy is killed. For father, there is no such distinction. Similarly, you cannot kill animals without being sanctioned. That sanction is in the sacrifice. I have already explained, for testing. According to Vedic system, if you kill anybody, then you must be responsible for the sinful life.
Then our point is that we should have to receive Godhead from the highest perfectional person. Knowledge, our knowledge, your knowledge or anyone's knowledge—we are defect in four principles. Our, we commit mistake. Every one of us who are sitting in this meeting, nobody can say that "I have never committed any mistake." That is not possible. We commit mistake, everyone. We commit mistakes and we are sometimes illusioned. Illusioned. That we can make experiment, that every one of us at the present moment is illusioned. How it is? That I have..., am not this body, but I am accepting this body as "I am." The whole world is—I may say whole world, but at least the majority portion—everyone is under the impression that "I am this body." But I am not this body. I am soul. That will be instructed in the Bhaga... I am not this body. I am soul. I am spirit soul.
There are many children in our society. They chant and dance. It does not require any education. It does not require any price. Simply if you chant... Why do you not make an experiment and see by chanting? That is our request. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. One may object, "Why shall I chant your Hindu Kṛṣṇa's name?" So we don't say that Kṛṣṇa, or God. God has got many names. That we admit. It is not... God is unlimited. Therefore, He must have unlimited names. But this Kṛṣṇa word is very perfect because it means all-attractive. You can discuss, "God is great." That's all right. How He's great? That is another understanding. So if you think that "Kṛṣṇa is the name of Hindu God, why shall I chant this?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No." If you have got a name, another alternative name of God, then you chant that.
Why it is said in one place pure and in another place impure? This is contradiction." But this is not contradiction. You practically make experiment. You take cow dung and apply anywhere, you'll find it is pure. Immediately purified. So this is Vedic injunction. They are perfect knowledge. We... Instead of wasting time arguing and putting forward false prestige, if you simply accept the perfect knowledge, as they are stated in the Vedic literature, then we get perfect knowledge and our life is success. Instead of making experiment on the body to find out where is the soul... The soul is there, but it is so small that it is not possible to see by your these blunt eyes. Any microscope or any machine, because it is stated it is one ten-thousandth part of the top of the tip of the hair.
Therefore, things which are beyond your perception, you have to accept it by hearing from the authoritative source. Just like another example: If you want to see who is your actual father, that is not possible to make an experiment who is your father. There may be some experimental. But if you ask your mother, authority, "Mother, who is my father?" the mother says, "This is the man who is your father," you have to accept, that's all. You cannot make any experiment, neither it is possible to understand who is your father by experimental knowledge. Then how you can make experiment the Supreme Father, God? That is not possible. Simply you have to hear from the authoritative sources. But you can make some experiment. But that is not very important thing.
Sometimes in the Vedas killing is recommended, just like in the fight or in the sacrifice, but that is not sinful. Sometimes a brāhmaṇa is sacrificing, offering, performing great sacrifice, and the animal is put into the fire just to give him renovated, new life, not for killing, just to test how Vedic mantras are being properly pronounced. That will be test. When sacrifice is done, the fire is there, and old animal is put into the sacrifice, and he comes out with a new body. That means the Vedic mantras are being pronounced very properly, and it is being carried out. This is the experiment, not for killing. Although in the Vedas there are recommendation that paśu-vadha system... Just like in the modern age also, when some experiment is made, it is made on the life of the animal. But they are killed. But when there is recommendation of putting an animal in the fire, that is not for killing; that is to see that this animal has got a new body.
It is not possible for you to see within the water how many varieties of. You might have, the biologists, they might have experimented, but it is not possible to see nine hundred thousand forms. That is not possible. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati.
So the trees and plants, (they're) two million varieties. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyayaḥ. And the insects, they are eleven hundred thousand. So it is a puzzling thing, that how Vedic literature places everything very correctly. Nine hundred thousand, eleven hundred thousand, two million, as they are. This is called realization. So we take it for granted. Our facility is, because we accept the Vedas as authority, therefore the knowledge is there, ready. If somebody asks me or you, "Can you say how many forms of living entities are there within the water?" it is very difficult. Even the biologists cannot say. Although they are very expert. I cannot say. But our facilities, we can immediately say, there are nine hundred thousand. Although I have never experimented, neither seen personally, but because it is explained in the Vedic literature, I can say you correctly.
So the soul is in the heart and Kṛṣṇa is also in the heart. Because they remain both together. So place is also located. You can perceive also by consciousness where there is presentation of soul, but if you want to measure by experiment, that is not possible. Therefore it is called aprameya. Prameya means direct perception. I can see or I can touch, I can handle. So that is... Kṛṣṇa says no, it is not possible. Aprameya. Then, how I shall accept? Now Kṛṣṇa says. So how I can believe Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says ukta, it is already settled up by authorities. Ukta. This is paramparā system. Kṛṣṇa also says ukta. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "I speak," no. Ukta, there is Vedic evidence. Where it is? In the Upaniṣads there is.
So we cannot understand God by our mental speculation. Neither we can understand what is the measurement of the soul. That is not possible. Therefore we have to take information from the highest authority, Kṛṣṇa, what is the nature of God, what is the nature of Absolute Truth, what is the nature of the soul. We have to hear. We have to hear. Therefore the Vedic literature is called śruti. You cannot make experiment. That is not possible. But unfortunately, there is a section of people who think that they can make experiment, they can know the Absolute by mental speculation.
So scientific, I mean to say, proposition is based on observation and experiment. So this is simply observation, that those who are atheistic person... Just like medical science. There are many doctors. They are observing when a man dies, observing, feeling the pulse, taking pulse beating, offering oxygen gas, trying to save him. All of a sudden the man dies, and he is sure to die, but they cannot simply observe the symptoms. They cannot observe what is that thing which is gone now. They cannot say that. Neither it is possible for them to say. But their theory that combination of matter makes symptoms of life possible, they should prove it by experiment. Then it is complete science. Observation and experiment. But there is no such experiment till now. You trace out the history of the human society. Of course, in the modern world they cannot trace out chronological history more than three thousand years.
So the, for argument's sake, Kṛṣṇa says that "If you think like that, the body's everything, so it will be destroyed automatically. So why you are so much afraid?" Suppose I have combined some chemicals and it is destroyed... Say, bottles of chemicals, some way or other, it is destroyed. So who laments for that? You can purchase another bottle. That is simply for argument's sake. Actually, that is not the position. Now, if you think that the combination of chemicals can produce living force, then why don't you do it in the laboratory? The chemicals are there. You can combine and just produce a small ant, moving. Then it is... Science means observation and experiment. So if you simply observe, and cannot make any experiment, practical, so then that is not science. That is only theory. That is not possible. No scientist has ever made any living entity by combination of chemicals in the laboratory. Nobody can do that.
The modern so-called scientists, they also write like that: "Perhaps," "It may be," like that. "It may be millions of years. It was like this." "It may be." What is the value of saying "It may be." Say definitely. That they cannot do. All the scientists" theory like "Perhaps," "Maybe." "Perchance, if it comes to be true..." So such kind of argument has no value. Therefore our śāstra says: acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvāḥ. Beyond your perception, beyond your sense perception, don't try to understand it by argument and logic. Then how to know it? Know it from the person who knows it. That is knowledge. Just like we are trying to get knowledge about the soul, not by experiment, but we are trying to understand from the words of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the authority. So He says, in the beginning: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). We can... Kṛṣṇa says, and we can think over it and ponder over it. Then we come to conclusion.
You cannot learn it. Just like if you purchase one pharmacology book from the bookseller's shop, and if you read, at home, do you mean that you become a medical practitioner, pharmacist? No. You must go to the university, you must go to the college. You must hear the experienced professor and learn it and practically experiment it. Then you can learn. Not that by purchasing a book you become a medical practitioner or lawyer. That is not possible. Therefore the direction is that tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "Must." Here also we see, Kṛṣṇa in the beginning was talking with Arjuna just like friends. But when Arjuna understood it that "We are talking like friends. So we cannot come into conclusion."
Consciousness is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. The consciousness is distributed throughout your whole body. That we can make an experiment. But this consciousness is not, I mean to..., spread over all the cosmic manifestation. That is also a fact. My consciousness is spread over my body. Your consciousness is spread over your body. I do not know what you are thinking now, and you do not know what I am thinking. Therefore my consciousness, individual; your consciousness, individual. But there is the Supersoul who knows what you are thinking and what I am thinking, what he is thinking, everyone thinking. That is superconsciousness.
Deductive knowledge is considered to be more perfect. And what is that? Just like "Man is mortal." This is a truth, accepted. How man is mortal, nobody's going to enter into discussion. It is accepted that man is mortal. Now, Mr. Johnson is a man. So he is mortal. This is the deductive conclusion. Because man is mortal and Johnson is a man, therefore he's mortal. This is the process of deductive knowledge. Now, how this man is mortal, this truth established? The other party, those who are inductive, follower of inductive process, they want to see actually by experiment and observation how man is mortal. They want to study, "This man dies. That man dies. That man dies. That man dies." Therefore they make a general conclusion, "Well, all men are mortal."
Similarly, what should be my attempt? The attempt should be, according to Bhāgavata, to understand the laws of nature or the laws of God and how it is working under His direction. That should be the attempt. You are making research. That's very nice. But your research is not complete because you take something halfway: "This is the beginning of life" or "This is the beginning of the creation." No. You have to go still further, still go further. And science means you have to prove by experiment that "This law is working like this, and therefore things are happening like this." If you simply presuppose that "Here is the beginning," that is not perfect.
Therefore, if we become saner, then instead of following this material leadership, we may agree to follow the leadership of Kṛṣṇa. Just try to follow the leadership of Kṛṣṇa and make an experiment how you are becoming happy. We have just started this association, International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and trying to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you kindly come and take advantage of this opportunity, it will be beneficial for both of us because we have come here with a mission, and if you cooperate, you will be benefited.
You cannot make any experiment. Beyond your names. Similarly if you want to learn about the spiritual sky in God's kingdom, then you have to simply hear from the authority. There is no question of experimental knowledge. Simply hearing. So hearing means, just like you have to believe some gentleman as your father, hearing from the authority of your mother. Simply from the Vedic literature which is accepted as the mother, authority of mother, knowledge. Mother authority. Veda-mātā. It is called Veda-mātā. It is called Veda-mātā. Veda means knowledge and it is received from the mother. So Veda-mātā, the knowledge mother, you have to know what is Kṛṣṇa. And here Kṛṣṇa is personally explaining. So we have to believe it. Then you get the knowledge. Otherwise there is no possibility. You cannot make experiment. Then you fail.
There is everything. I can see the sun, which is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet, but my eyes are seeing, daily just like a disc. So don't believe your senses. Your senses are imperfect. Whatever knowledge you get by experimental knowledge, experimental method, that is the modern ways of understanding. But these things cannot be experimented. Therefore we have to take the knowledge from the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).
But what Kṛṣṇa says, you can test even with your experimental knowledge. That is Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge, it is not dogma. The, the statement is there after sufficient experiment. So we, if we accept Vedic knowledge, we save so much time. We may go on experimenting with out limited power of senses, but that will always remain doubtful, then it is perfect. Asaṁśayaṁ samagram. This samagram, this word, is very significant. Samagram means "complete." To understand Kṛṣṇa means to understand the whole cosmic manifestation, God, the material nature, the time factor, the living entities, their respective relationship, everything.
Recently, I may say, in California University, one learned professor came there to speak about the evolutionary theory of chemicals, and he said that life is produced, perhaps you know, from four chemicals. But when one student he said that "If I supply these four chemicals, whether you can produce life?" In answer to this, he said, "That I cannot say." That is imperfect knowledge. If you say, "Life is produced from chemicals," then you must make experimental demonstration, by mixing those chemicals, you produce life. That is called vijñānam, practical demonstration. Otherwise it is not perfect. Scientific knowledge means observation, then experiment. If you fail in your experiment, that is not scientific knowledge. It must be experimented.
So that knowledge is perfect because experimentally... Science means observation and experiment. If you are observing something, then you must experiment. Jñānaṁ vijñānam. In the previous verses we have already studied that jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam (BG 7.2). Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam. Theoretical knowledge, that is observation. And sa-vijñānam means experiment. If you say, if you have observed that life is produced of chemical, then make experiment. Then it is science; otherwise it is hodge-podge. It has no meaning. Life is never produced of matter; matter is produced out of life. This is the... Therefore we are fragmental matter, life. We living entities, small portion, very small portion. That is also given in the śāstras: keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). One ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair, that is the magnitude of soul.
You have to learn by hearing. There is no other process. The Vedas says, the śāstra says, "This is the magnitude of the soul." You have to take it. Then you will understand. Otherwise, by so-called experiment, you have neither instrument nor facility to make, find out. The first-class medical man or physiologist, find out where is the soul in this body. But they cannot. They have no such power, but there is something which, being absent, the body is dead. That is a fact. That is a fact. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That... Because that soul has gone out of this body, therefore the body is now dead. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Therefore it is authority.
What is the distinction between dead man and living man? That you have to understand. You cannot make experiment why the body is dead.
So the means is there. We have to utilize it. That requires intelligence. So my request to you all boys, that you try to understand and... You understand or not understand, it is a standard method. Try to induce people to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. They will be happy. They will get the... Real thing will be delivered to them. That is a fact. So such a simple method and such sublime gain, so why one should lose this opportunity? There is no loss, but the gain is very great. So why should you lose this opportunity? Let us make an experiment, chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And those who are making, those who are chanting, they are being convinced, they are being advanced. They are realizing. Otherwise... They are not wasting time. Here is a boy, he is postgraduate. He is teacher. So he's not a fool. So why he's sticking unless he's feeling that "Yes, I am advancing"?
Now, we have got description of that planet. Because anything, if you want to understand, you have to hear first of all. Just like when, before my coming to your country, I had some experience by hearing: "Oh, America is such and such. New York is such and such." Somebody might have gone there, and he explains that "The climate of New York is like this." So this is by hearing. So hearing is the first experience. Similarly, if you want to get experience of the planet where God lives, then you have to hear. There is no other way. You cannot immediately make experiment. That is not possible. You cannot make experiment even on this material planet. You have no knowledge what other planets are, but you can hear from a description of the scriptures.
The geometrical calculation is that the sun, the dimension of the sun is many, many hundred, thousands of..., greater than the earth. But we are seeing just like a disk. So our sense is unable to see how great it is. It is a material thing. So how we can see the greatness of God with these material eyes? It is not possible. As you are understanding about the sun by authoritative statement of the geometry, that this sun globe is so great, so many hundred thousands greater than the... But you are seeing just like a disk. So how to get the knowledge of the sun? By receiving through the ear. That's all. Simply you have to receive the knowledge from the authority. It is not that practically you are experimenting by going to the sun, that it is so great and so long, so broad. That is not possible. You have to receive such knowledge through authority. That's all.
Every planet has got a suitable body. You cannot enter... Just like you cannot live in the water with this body. You can make an experiment. You can live there, within water, say twenty-four hours or fifteen hours or sixteen hours. That's all. That's all. But the fish, the aquatic animals, they have got particular body. They are living whole life. Similarly, if you take out the fishes from water and put them on the land, oh, they will instantly die. As you see even in this planet that you have got to make your different kinds of body to live in a particular place, so similarly, if you want to enter into another planet, you have to prepare yourself to get that particular type of body.
Jñānam. Jñānam means knowledge. And vijñānam means particular knowledge. Just like in scientific word there are knowledge and scientific knowledge or theoretical knowledge and experimental knowledge, two kinds of knowledge. Science... In the field of scientific knowledge there are things, just like observation and experiment. Things are going on. The scientists are observing that "This things is being done." Now there are so many observation, atomic observation. Proton, neutron, they are observing. And now, when that observation is complete, when they are put into experimental knowledge, that is called vijñānam. So Kṛṣṇa says that "I shall explain to you jñānam, theoretical knowledge, with practical experiment." Not that you have to accept this knowledge blindly. Practical experiment. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ pravakṣyāmy anasū... Jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitam.
You are on the carriage, and your horse is uncontrolled, unbridled, and he is taking you with full force and putting you in the Atlantic Ocean. You cannot control. You see? So similarly, adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. Viśatām means he is entering to the darkest part of ignorance by these uncontrolled, unbridled senses. So na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31), adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). These people who do not know the destination, they are trying to make experiment which is already experimented. It is already experimented.
So this material life experience—chasing after woman and drinking and sense gratification and so many things, spending like anything—we have seen it, but we have not experienced any actual happiness. Still, I am trying to induce my son, my dependent, into that way. The foolish people do not think that "I have already experimented all these things. What benefit, what happiness, I have got?" This is called punaḥ punaś car..., repeatedly chewing the chewed, repeatedly. This is going on. Nobody thinks that "I have already experimented all these things. What benefit I have got? What happiness I have got? I am frustrated in my life. So why shall I induce my son? If I at all love my son, why shall I induce my son into that? Let him experiment this, Kṛṣṇa consciousness." No. Because adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram.
Īśvara, means Supreme Lord, is sitting in everyone's heart. So He is witness. Whatever you are doing, He is witness. He is giving you facility to do whatever you like, but at the same time you may forget. Suppose I wanted to do something in this life. This is not fulfilled. And next life, when I get another body, so God reminds me. "Well, you wanted to do this. Why not experiment?" That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am seated in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "From Me there is remembrance," smṛti, "there is knowledge and there is forgetfulness also."
Everyone has to do something to keep his body and soul together. That is the law of nature. Niyataṁ kuru karma tvaṁ karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ. Arjuna was Kṛṣṇa's friend, but He never said that "You stop your working." Rather, He engaged him in his real work. He was a fighter. He was a soldier. He was declining to do the duty of a soldier. But Kṛṣṇa induced him, "No. You must become a soldier." So we may do whatever by God's grace or by nature's freaks we are situated. That doesn't matter. But if you take this formula, ananyāś cintayanto mām, always think of Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be that you will never be unhappy. Just try. Make an experiment.
So if you study, if you meditate on our body, so "I am this body. I am this finger." No. The answer will come: "No, I am not this body. I am... It is my body. It is my finger. It is my head." This is simple thing. And here it is confirmed by the Supreme Authority, Kṛṣṇa. And we can experiment it, that how it is that I am identifying myself with this body? Therefore śāstra says: yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is a, a product of the three dhātus. According to Ayurvedic system, kapha-pitta-vāyu. So anyone who is accepting this body made of three elements, kapha-pitta-vāyu, he is no better than go-kharaḥ. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). An animal.
Therefore Arjuna is asking not to a third-class so-called philosopher and chemist and economist, but to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa. Because whatever answer Kṛṣṇa will give, that is fact. And śāstra means the things which have been spoken by Kṛṣṇa. That is śāstra. And guru means who speaks... Guru means who speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Sādhu-śāstra-guru. This is called. So Kṛṣṇa is asked. And the answer for Kṛṣṇa, which He gives, that is final. No experiment. No "future." Whatever answer He gives, that is final. Otherwise, why people read Bhagavad-gītā so carefully? Not now. Thousands of years. Thousands of years. Not only in India, in other countries also. So answers, real answers are there.
Similarly, if such rules and regulations are here, even in this planet, how you dare to go into the moon planet or other planet by force? This is all childish. Now they have stopped. The American government has stopped financing this foolish excursion. Going to the moon planet. They have stopped. They have now come to sense that simply these so-called scientists, they're experi, experimenting on public money and wasting.
Similarly, not only this human form of body, but there are eight million four hundred thousand different types of bodies. We have explained several times. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi: "In the water there are nine hundred thousand different forms of body." How many do we know? We do not know all the details. We know there are different types of fishes, and say, a hundred thousand we have seen or experimented, the zoologist. But from the Vedic literature we understand that there are nine hundred thousand forms of body within the water.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Just like you can touch. You can understand a thing by touching, if it is hard or soft, liquid or solid. You can smell, you can hear—so many sensual activities. So things which you can perceive by your sensual activities, they are called direct knowledge or knowledge by experiment. But which is beyond your experiment, that is called adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond your sense perception. So God's another name is Adhokṣaja, means beyond our perception. You cannot understand God by directly seeing or directly smelling, or directly hearing, or directly tasting or touching.
Actually, unless the human society comes to the category of varṇāśrama-dharma, he is not a human being; he is animal. Still, in India, because they are still inclined to the system of varṇa and āśrama, there are so many benefit for the Indians. I have traveled all over the world so many times. Because there is no varṇāśrama-dharma, how loose they are. That has been experimented. I have seen. So actually, unless one comes to the standard of varṇāśrama-dharma, he is not considered to be a human being. Therefore the Vedic civilization begins from the varṇāśrama-dharma.
Suppose I am Indian. Is it very easy...? It is not very easy to take it for granted immediately that I am not Indian, I am pure soul? Similarly, anyone, to not identify with this bodily designation, it is not very easy task. But still, if we go on hearing the kṛṣṇa-kathā, as we have begun here, it will be very easy. It will be very easy. You, you make an experiment. You make an experiment how easily you shall be able to get yourself free from all these designations.
We are also part and parcel of sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Vigraha means form. Sac-cid-ānanda does not mean impersonal. That is foolishness, another foolishness. Ānanda cannot be impersonal. You can make experiment. Suppose if you are put into a big room without any man coming there, so you cannot feel very comfortable for long time. You will feel lonely. You shall try to come out. Just like we have got experience. Everyone has got experience, when we rise very high in the sky, but we cannot remain in that condition more than, utmost, eight to ten hours. Then we become very restless. Although it is very high in the sky, but we cannot remain in that way.
"I am situated in everyone's heart. Memory, knowledge, forgetfulness, they are coming from Me." If you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, He will give you good intelligence how to forget. But if you want to serve Kṛṣṇa, He will give you good intelligence how to serve. It depends on your choice. Therefore our business is to surrender. "Kṛṣṇa, God, now I am surrendering. I have experimented with all my knowledge, all my intelligence, everything. They have all become failures." They are sure to become failures because our knowledge, our intelligence, our talent, strength, opulence, everything depending on God. Kṛṣṇa, He gives you a little knowledge; therefore, you can become very proud of your knowledge. He gives you a little intelligence; therefore, you can become proud of your intelligence. But as soon as He likes, He can withdraw immediately, and you become forgetful.
So everything is there Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is the topmost knowledge. That is transcendental knowledge. That is not material knowledge. Material knowledge, if you write some book, it has no meaning, because it is defective. But Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is not ordinary knowledge. It is transcendental knowledge. There is no defect. Our this mundane brain is defective. We can't... Just like our scientist, Svarūpa Dāmodara. He was speaking that they make experiment in the laboratory according to formula, but still, there is some mistake. Still, there is some mistake. Practically, scientific advancement, scientific knowledge means to find out mistakes.
Just like in the medical laboratory, physiological laboratory, some animals are tested to see the physiological condition of the body, similarly, always these experiments are made on the animals. So Mahārāja Parīkṣit went to the forest for hunting. So he was very tired. He was very tired, and he entered the cottage of one hermitage. He was at that time in meditation. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja was very much thirsty and hungry, and because he was king, he can order anyone, royal order, so he entered the cottage and asked the hermitage, that muni, that "Please give me something to eat. I am very hungry," or "Give me some drinking water." But he was in meditation.
Unless they find it actually, by actual experience, that there are so many living forms within the water, they cannot say yes. Neither they are able to find it out. Is it not the position? First of all, if we say to the biologists that "There are 900,000 different forms of life or species within the water," they will say, "How it is you are affirming in, so positively, without experiment, without research?" They'll say. Then we'll ask, "Then you say." That they cannot say. This is their position. They'll say, "In future..." Future, there is no question. You do not know now. Admit this. So this is their position. Therefore this experimental knowledge is always imperfect. Always imperfect.
Prabhupāda: You don't speak your upadeśa, your instruction. That is nonsense. What you are? That is the defect of the modern civilization. They simply want to instruct by his experience. But what is your experience? They're all imperfect. But they are persisting, "No, we cannot accept any knowledge without experiment." Is it not the position. Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Experiments.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're after.
Prabhupāda: Now, that the scientists will say, "Why we shall accept Kṛṣṇa's version as perfect?" Do they not say like that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, they ask.
Prabhupāda: But they cannot give any perfect information, their theories. So our process is to take Kṛṣṇa... Not only our, this is the paramparā system. All the ācāryas-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya—they take Kṛṣṇa's version as perfect. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, therefore, that "You do not instruct anything which is manufactured by you. Do not instruct all these..." Because you are imperfect. You have manufactured all your theories. They are imperfect.
Because the fact is fact. Either... Suppose somebody says, "Don't touch fire. It will burn your hand." If you accept it, your father's advice or your teacher's advice, "Don't touch fire," it is as good. And if you want to make research, "No, why shall I believe my father, my teacher. Let me experiment, touch," the result will be the same. Result will be the same. But if you want to make experiment, do it. But come to this conclusion, that Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything. Then your life is perfect.
He must be self-controlled, controlling the mind and the senses. Then very clean, śaucam. Satyaṁ śaucam. Then titikṣā, tolerant; ārjavam, very simple. No duplicity. Simple. Ārjavam. Jñānam, full knowledge; vijñānam, knowledge applied in practical life. This is vijñānam. Just like we call science. Science means to know the thing correctly, and by practical experiment to understand the things correctly, that is vijñānam. Jñānam means theoretical knowledge, and vijñānam means practical application of the knowledge. Simply if I know "This is the qualification of brāhmaṇa," but there is no practical application, that will not do. One must pass the engineering examination and work as engineer; then he's called an engineer.
The mind you can, everyone, we know, what is the speed of mind. Even one ten-thousandth part of a second, you can go millions of miles. The speed of mind. It is so speedy. You are sitting here, and suppose you have seen something which is millions of miles, miles away, you can immediately, your mind can go immediately. So these two examples are given. Just see how much scientific they were. These rascals says that there was no advanced mind or advanced scientists. Then wherefrom these words are coming? The speed of air, the speed of mind. Unless they had some experiment, some knowledge. Why, how these books are written?
Prabhupāda: Just like this body, your body, my body, even elephant's body... It has grown. It has grown because the spirit soul is there. As soon as the spirit soul is not there, there will be no more growth, no more growth and the body will be heavy. Due to the spirit soul within the body, the body is light. You can make an experiment. You just have a weight of a dead body and of a living body. You will find difference. What is the difference. Where is our scientist?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, the difference is, in the living body, there is a spirit soul. And in the dead body, has no spirit soul.
Prabhupāda: No, you, it, find the difference that the dead body is more weight. Why? Why? Because the spirit soul is not there. These are experimented even by the scientists. So the, the, this world is floating in the air because the spirit soul is within it. Therefore it is floating.
That is the system in India still. So once Durvāsā Muni became a guest of Mahārāja Kuntibhoja, and Kuntī served the Durvāsā Muni. He was very pleased, and he gave her one benediction, that "You can call any demigod by your sweet will. As soon as you desire, the demigod will..." So Kuntī, she was a girl; she made an experiment, immediately called the Sūrya, the sun-god, and he came. So Sūrya asked him (her) that "You have called me. You take some benediction. Take a son from me." She refused. "No, I am unmarried. I cannot." "No, there is no harm. Your son will be born from the ear." Generally, the son is born from the vagina, but Kuntī's son was born from the ear. Therefore Karṇa. The first son was Karṇa. Unmarried.
So to commit mistake, to get into illusion, overpowered by illusion, and cheating. Cheating means you have made mistake, "two plus two equal to five." "Yes," you're persisting, "Yes, it is right." That is cheating. Everyone in this material world, they're born foolish and still they're manufacturing knowledge. That is cheating. That is going on. The so-called scientists, so-called philosophers, their basic principle is wrong, and they're presenting some theories and that is being accepted by people. That is cheating. For example, just like the insistence of the scientists that "Life is production of matter." They have no experience, neither they can make any experiment in the laboratory that from matter one can produce life. But every child knows that "My father is life and my mother is life, so I am produced from that combination. I am also life." So life comes from life.
Therefore His name is Adhokṣaja. Adhah-kṛta akṣaja-jñānaṁ yatra. The adhokṣaja means... Jñāna means experimental knowledge. Just like these modern scientists, they believe in experimental knowledge. But they are so rascal, in their own case, they will say, "Yes, we are trying. In future it will be successful." Why not experimental knowledge now? If you say that life is generated from matter... You are writing so many books and getting Nobel Prize. Why not by experimental knowledge prove that "Here are some matters and chemicals and here is life"? That they say, "We are trying." This is their escape. But actually, science means two things: observation and experiment. If you do not experiment practically in the laboratory, simply observation is not sufficient. That is not science. That is theory.
Just like they are putting on this theory that matter, from matter, life has come. "All right, matter, life has come from matter. Just prove it. Take matter, whatever materials you want, take, and produce life." "That we shall see in future." Then why you are talking this nonsense? Science means observation and experiment. There must be experiment also. But without experiment, they are putting on this theory and getting Nobel Prize. Although it is not a fact. We know. We. We are followers of Vedic principles. We know that matter or life, everything comes from life, not from matter. We know it certain. How do you know? Kṛṣṇa says.
And what is śabda? Śāstra, or Vedas. Śruti-śāstra. Śruti means Veda, knowledge. Veda means knowledge. Or knowledge is received through ear, by hearing. That is real knowledge. Not by experimental knowledge. You cannot understand which is beyond your sense perception by experiment. Just like you cannot understand who is your father by experimental knowledge: "Let me make experiment and find out who is my father." That is not possible. Because it is beyond your experience. Your father was existing when you were not existing. Then how you can understand by experimental knowledge? The authority is mother. Therefore Vedic knowledge is the mother; the Purāṇas are the sisters. They are explained like that. You should understand from the Vedas what is the ultimate knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ: (BG 15.15) the ultimate knowable objective is Kṛṣṇa.
How subtle things are going on, that is described in the Sāṅkhya philosophy presented by Kapiladeva, but we do not understand practically how things are going on. We are simply accepting the words, that "By transformation of this thing, this thing is coming out so much." Neither it is possible to make experiment. Maybe, but scientists can take advantage of this Sāṅkhya philosophy. So you may experiment or not. That doesn't matter. Things are going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā manyate... (BG 3.27). What is called? Kartāham iti manyate.
One who has definite knowledge, why he will say, "It may be"? It must be. That is knowledge. Just like we get knowledge from the śāstra, jalajā nava-lakṣāni: "There are nine hundred thousand species or forms of life in the water." So we have not gone into the water, but we get from the authorities, Padma Purāṇa, and we accept it. So our process of knowledge... You may say that "You have not practically experimented," but what you have experimented? You also hear from others. You believe that they have gone to moon planet. You have not gone. You have heard from somebody in the newspaper, that's all. That is your authority. So if you can believe in the newspaper, then I cannot believe in the śāstras?
And this tapa, what is the purpose of tapasya? Tapasya everyone knows. Just like a man walking on the street, pulling a thela. What is the purpose? He'll get five or ten rupees, whole day working like an ass. That is also tapasya. Tapasya means labor. So he's thinking, "I'll get ten rupees by working." He cannot pull it, the load is so heavy. Still, some way or other... That is also tapasya. A scientist discovering something, he has to work very hard, and make experiments So many things. That is also tapasya. But not that kind of tapasya. That kind of tapasya is not required. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). You are working hard for maintaining your body and soul together. You have to work hard. But here, that hard work should be for self-realization, divine contact. That is called divyam.
So our this simple living... We are introducing the simple living, that go to the village, have sufficient food grains and milk, and the experiment is successful in the Western countries, in New Vrindaban, in Philadelphia, in New Orleans. So now the leaders of European and American countries, they are threatened: "This kind of civilization, if it is advanced, then where he'll stand?" This simple living... In Australia, one psychiatrist, he remarked that "If this kind of simple living is introduced, then where you stand?" So they want ugra-karma. They want to work day and night in the factories, and to pacify themselves, they immediately require drinking, illicit sex. Thence, by working on motorcars, they have no enough food, they want to eat meat, kill animals; and to digest the meat, he must drink. One after another. One after another.
Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has advised that science means you have to take it from the Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means there is no mistake, there is no cheating, there is no imperfect senses. Everything is perfect. So science means, which is perfect knowledge. Not perhaps, it may be, that is not science, theory. Theory is not science. Science, the most important items of science is observation and experiment. First of all to study the situation by observation, and then practically, when you are able to make an experiment, then it is science. Otherwise, theoretical knowledge has no meaning.
When Kṛṣṇa was seven years old, He lifted one big mountain on His finger. That means the Our understanding is that there is law of gravitation. By law of gravitation, such a big mountain, it cannot stay in one man's finger. That is our calculation. But He did it. That means He counteracted the law of gravitation. That is God. So if you believe this, then you know God immediately. There is no difficulty. Just like if the child is warned, "My dear child, do not touch fire. It will burn you." So if the child accepts, then he gets the perfect knowledge immediately. If the child does not accept, he wants to make experiment, then he will burn his finger.
In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate: (BG 14.26) "Anyone who is engaged in My transcendental loving service, bhakti-yoga, the devotional yoga..." Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate, sa guṇān samatītyaitān: (BG 14.26) "He can transcend the influence of these all these three qualities." Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. "Immediately he's situated on the Brahman platform." So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, without recommending this atonement or that atonement, which will not check him... You can go on, make many experiment of atonement, but the disease of the heart will remain. And you'll commit again sin. But as soon as you come to the Kṛṣṇa platform, then you become free from the contamination. This is the advantage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you don't come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you may be relieved for the time being from the reaction of sinful activities, but you'll again commit.
Kāriṇām means one who is working. Nobody is... Because dead stone, that is sitting idly, but any..., even a small ant, it is also working. That is the difference between matter and the spirit. So we cannot understand this difference, that what is the difference between matter and spirit. Why the big mountain does not move? Because it is dead matter. And a small ant, it moves. Why it is so? That is the difference between matter and spirit. Why you are misunderstanding that "The spirit is also matter; it is coming from chemical"? This miseducation is going on that spirit is also chemical composition, although I cannot experiment it by mixing chemical, producing...
Perhaps you have seen in the Kumbha-melā some government officers were... They are also born in a brāhmaṇa family, and they are performing yajña. Actually the brāhmaṇas had so much power in those days that simply by mantra, they would ignite fire. The fire was not ignited by matches—by mantra. And the animal... Just like in medical science, in physiology sometimes experiment is made by plying the knife on some animal, similarly, how the yajña was being performed, that was tested by animal sacrifice. Animal sacrifice was not meant for killing one animal and eating. No. That the animal, an old animal, should be put into the yajña fire and he'll come out a young, with a young body, that was the test how Vedic mantras were being chanted powerfully. That was the... Not that animal was to be killed there.
And the aquatics, there are 900,000's. Similarly, the bacteria, worms and reptiles, they are sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṇkhayakāḥ, eleven..., 1,100,000's. There are analytical study in the Vedic knowledge. They are experimented, and if you like, can experiment yourself also. Just like the information is that there are 900,000's of aquatics. Now, if you have got power to study how many aquatics are there, you can corroborate. Or two millions of plants and trees and creepers—that also, you can corroborate. But we get from Vedic literature these informations. So these are the different manufactures, different presentation of this interaction of these twenty-four elements. Dehas tu sarva-saṅghāto jagat tasthur iti dvidhā. And this deha, this body, is divided into two classes of body: one class, moving, and one class, not moving, standing stationary.
Our Doctor Svarūpa Dāmodara in the California University... One big professor came to lecture on chemical evolution, and he challenged immediately, that "If I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" He said, "That I cannot say." So this is their position. They cannot prove it. They cannot do it. Science means not only observation but experiment also. That is complete. Otherwise theory. It is not science. So they have got different theories. That anyone can put forward. That is not But real fact is that Kṛṣṇa is spiritual and He's the Supreme. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). This is the Vedic injunction. God is the supreme nitya, eternal, and the Supreme Living Being.
That is knowledge, perfect knowledge. Otherwise, if you interpret, if you don't believe, then you don't get. There is no other way. The same example. Just like—I am repeating again—that if you want to know who is your father, the only witness is your mother. Higher evidence is final. If we want to make experiment who is your father, that is not possible. That experimental knowledge is not possible. You have to accept. Similarly, for perfect knowledge of the father or perfect knowledge of the Supreme, you have to accept the version, supreme version of Vedas. Then it is perfect.
Jñānam means knowledge. And vijñānam. Vijñānam means practical application. Just like in the science class there is theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge. Theoretical knowledge—if you mix hydrogen and oxygen gas, there is water. But we have to experiment it in the laboratory, mix so many parts of hydrogen and so many parts of oxygen, and actually, when we see there is water, then your knowledge is perfect. So not theoretical knowledge but practical application. Jñānam, vijñānam, and āstikyam. Āstikyam means faith in God, faith in scripture. That is called āstikyam. According to Vedic version, āstikyam means faith in the Vedas. Nobody can refute the Vedas. That is called faith, no argument.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So this is Vedic injunction. Whatever is there, it is already tested, it is already experimented. You have simply to accept. Don't try to argue. This is acceptance of Vedānta-sūtra. Not that "Oh, I have got to serve some purpose, political purpose. So I'll have to prove from Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence." In our country, Gandhi, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. He wanted to prove that there... (break) ...by violence. So he was killed. How you can prove Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence? There is tacit order, "You must fight. The other party is impious. So you must fight." These are the injunction. You cannot change. That is not Vedānta-sūtra.
From śāstra, from scripture, we understand that there are 8,400,000 species of life, 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, aquatics, water animals or water-living entities, are 900,000. The botanist or the physiologist, how many they have seen or how many they have experimented or how many we have seen? But from the śāstra, from the Vedic scriptures, we find that there are 900,000's of species of life in the water, and 2,000,000 species of life in the botanical department. Similarly, there are birds, there are beasts, there are four-legged animals, and at last, the human beings. The human life is considered to be the developed form of all species of life.
Best and the easiest type of meditation. Fully.(?) Factual. You at once become on the transcendental plane. Therefore we feel dancing. You see? So practice it and you'll see how spiritually you are making advancement. And it is very simple. When you are walking on the street, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is not tax. There is no expenditure. There is no loss. But the gain is very great. Why don't you try it? If without any loss, without any expenditure, you gain something, the supermost sublime thing, spiritual realization, why don't you try for it? We are not asking any money. We are not asking $250 for paying for hearing. No. It is freely distributed. Please take it and try it. Make an experiment. There is no business here. You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and try to hear the sound, that's all.
Actually you can see that, that Vṛndāvana-dhāma, that place is a small spot of land, say about eighty-four miles area, but any person, and however atheistic he may be, and however nonsense he may be, if he goes to that place, he'll feel Kṛṣṇa's presence. Still. Still, simply by going there, he'll at once change his mind that "Here is God." He'll accept it. Still. If you like, you can go to India and you can see, make an experiment. So, although Vṛndāvana is a, is a place for the personalists, now all the impersonalists school of India, they're making their āśrama at Vṛndāvana because they have failed to achieve the sense of God anywhere, they are coming to Vṛndāvana.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
So four thousand, five thousand dollars we are spending. Can any karmī depend like that? Take practical example. Can they depend for paying five thousand dollars bills without any arrangement? They will have no sleep at night. And we are freely moving, because we are sure that Kṛṣṇa will provide, and He is providing. Go anywhere in the karmī's world. Find out such nice place, just like our temple. There is none. Whole Los Angeles city, you cannot find. Such beautiful faces, such bright faces, you cannot find anywhere. So this is complete facility. If you want to take advantage of your life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is complete facility. Come to the practical point. There is no theoretical. It is practical, experimented.
The animal killing is there in the Vedas, but what the purpose? That is to test the Vedic mantra. An animal will be put into the fire, and by Vedic mantra he'll be rejuvenated. That is sacrifice, animal sacrifice. Not that for eating purpose. Therefore in this age of Kali, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden any kind of yajña because there is no, I mean to say, expert brāhmaṇa who can chant the mantras and make experiment of the Vedic mantras that "Here is coming out." That is... Before performing yajña, how the mantra is potent, that was tested by sacrificing animal and again giving new life.
Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was at Purī, the king of that place, Mahārāja Pratāparudra, he inquired from Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, "Oh, what is your opinion about this Caitanya who has come here?" He said that "He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." So the king immediately accepted it. King said, "Oh, He is Supreme Personality of Godhead?" So he accepted immediately, just like... There is no question of experimenting. Because an authority like Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya is stating, a brāhmaṇa and... He was very learned scholar. You know Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's name. So because he said that "He is Supreme Personality..." He did not ask any storekeeper, but he asked a learned brāhmaṇa who knows things.
Festival Lectures
These are nine processes of devotional service, of which śravanam, hearing, is most important. Without hearing, nobody can understand the science of God. Therefore the Vedic mantras are called śruti. Śruti means it is to be heard. It is not to be experimented in the laboratory. It is simply to be heard. Therefore it is called śruti. So śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam. Vandanam, offering prayer. We also offer prayer. The other religious sect, just like the Christians, they offer prayer; the Muhammadans, they offer prayer. So prayer, offering prayer is also one of the items of bhakti. Chanting, hearing, meditating, offering prayers, arcanam, worshiping the Deity in the temple, all of them are together devotional service.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
They are themself cheated, so how they can do good to others? So don't be members of the society of cheaters and cheated. Then the life will be spoiled. Our only request, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is "Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa he. This is our... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught. Always chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa or Hare Kṛṣṇa, as it is convenient. That is the way of, the simple way. There is no difficulty. There is no loss. These boys and girls took "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa," so there was no loss, but now everything is gain. So why not make an experiment that chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always?
Initiation Lectures
In the Vedic age this was being done. Aruṇi. The sacrifice means to sacrifice one animal in the fire end give it again a new life. That was a test for the Vedic mantra, how one has chanted. It is not sacrifice, means killing. The animal sacrifice mentioned in the Vedas were not for killing. It was experiment of the Vedic mantra. They would sacrifice an animal and again it will be given new life, rejuvenation. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said to Chand Kazi that "Because in this age the brāhmaṇas are not so powerful, therefore sacrifice is prohibited. Only this sacrifice: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21), this is..." (break) (japa) That's all right. Don't put any more. Yes. Put little ghee. Little ghee. That's all right. (japa) Let it burn. Then, later on... You can chant mantra.
Cornerstone Ceremonies
But I thought that "Let me adjust my family life, and then I shall do this." But I took it very seriously. But family life, never it was adjusted, so he forced me at the ripe old age to take up this work. So I tried to make an experiment that nobody had done: "Let me try." But I tried sincerely, so by the grace of my Guru... Guru-Kṛṣṇa, they favored me. When I was on the Commonwealth Jetty, Pier, yes, I was thinking that "Who will hear me? As soon as I shall say to these people that 'No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication and no gambling,' immediately they will say, 'Please go home. Don't talk here.' " Because I know that. This is their daily life. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa they agreed.
General Lectures
If you take to this movement, it is very simple. Just like our president, Brahmānanda, explained to you, that it is simply sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Simply to chant these sixteen words. We are simply requesting you to chant these sixteen words. There is no loss on your part, but there is immense gain. Why don't you make an experiment? It is not very difficult. These American boys, they are also chanting. Similarly, although it is written in Sanskrit words symbolically, but it is vibration. It is transcendental vibration. If you take to this vibration, then we become directly in touch with the Supreme Lord.
It is spontaneous. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. There are only three words there: Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma, but they are adjusted in a different position. There are sixteen words. So it is not very difficult. You can make an experiment. The children also may take pleasure. We have got our records. If you play those records and chant with it, you will find a transcendental pleasure in you. These are facts. So our request to you, that you take this movement a little seriously, and you will be happy by grace of Kṛṣṇa.
So, little intelligence required, that "Why not take it immediately? Even I did not cultivate knowledge in my past life, let me take immediately." So this opportunity is offered. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no tax. There is no loss. But everything is gained. Try it. At least, make an experiment for week or for fortnight and see. It is not difficult. Simply we must be willing. That's all. Because every one of us are independent. Not fully, little. So we can use our independence, we can misuse our independence. So here is the offering. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now it is your choice. If you can take, it is good. If you don't take, that is your good will.(?) Is there any difficulty to accept our formula? I ask all of you, is there any difficulty? I am asking this.
So it was... It is not very difficult. Because it is composed in Sanskrit words, it does not mean that you cannot chant. We have experimented. Now, I ask my students... They are all American boys and girls. None of them are Indian or Hindu. Not only here in Boston, but in many other cities like New York and San Francisco, Los Angeles, Buffalo, Santa Fe, Montreal, so they are very nicely chanting and enjoying. Not only that, I have got some restriction. The student who comes to me for initiation, I ask them to restrict some habits. So they are easily doing that also. Just like I ask them not to indulge in any intoxication, including smoking, tea-taking, coffee-taking. So they are following.
It is practical. We have seen even children, they immediately take to this dancing and chanting. So it is not very difficult. The most easy process of transcendental realization. We don't ask you to press your nose, or put your head downwards, or make some gymnastic. No. In whatever condition you are, it doesn't matter. You simply chant these sixteen names. There is no secrecy. We are not charging any fees, that "You pay me so many dollars, I'll give you a secret mantra, and you chan..." No. It is open. It is distributed freely. Simply you have to take it. That's all. The result will be, oh, great. Make an experiment. You have no loss. You haven't got to pay anything. But if you take this, the result will be very, very great, which has no comparison in this world. That is practical.
You do not require to read all this literature. If you can, it is very good, but if you have no time, simply chant these sixteen words, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Make an experiment. We are not charging anything. We are not cheating you, that "Give me some fifty dollars or twenty dollars. I'll give you some secret mantra." No. It is open. You can take. Everyone can take. Everyone. We are chanting. You can chant with us and practice it, and there is no hard and fast rules and regulation. You can chant anyway, anywhere. Whether you are in the college, whether you're on the street, whether you are sleeping, lying, or whatever, you can chant.
We are not charging anything. We are not saying that "I shall give you some mantra. You pay me fifty dollars and it is private." No. It is open, without any charge. Anyone can. These boys, American boys and girls, they are chanting. Similarly, you can also chant. There is none Indian, but they are nicely chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You can also chant. There is no fee. You just make an experiment on how you become free from this designation. So our request is that everything will be complete if you take to this chanting: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And there is no very strict rules, regulation. You can chant anywhere, either in this room or outside the room or on the road, street, bus. Wherever you find opportunity, you chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result.
Our movement is to request persons that "You please chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, and if you go on chanting, you will find the solution of your life very easy." There is no expenditure and there is no loss. Suppose if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa—nobody will object. There is no tax. But if there is some gain, why don't you try to achieve it? Just make an experiment for one week. Chant as many times as you can: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And you'll find so many things in..., new in your life. That is practically experienced, and if you try to chant, you'll also feel. And I shall be very glad if you join with this chanting again when we shall perform again, and you shall join with us: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
So as you see, actually it is packed up nice, two pounds of water, very nice... And so nicely packed. How it has happened? What is the explanation of the scientists? According to their calculation, there must be pipe. There must be pumping. Somebody must be pumping. Where are all these? Then is it legend? It is fact. Now you explain how it is happening. If you are scientist, you explain how it is happening. Or you do that. Simply observation will not do. You must make experiment. You make a log standing like that, keep anything, and the, it, water must go.
Just like we requested you while our students were chanting to join with. What was the loss? But if you do not do, then how we can help you? We are not asking you to pay something for chant this mantra. It is free. It is open. You have to simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result. Why don't you do that? We are not asking any payment. You are not losing anything. Why don't you make this experiment? But it is our obstinacy. Then what can be done? But if you chant, you will see the result very quickly. Within a week you will see. That is our request. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. If you chant, then the dirty things which have accumulated in your heart since a long association with this material world, that will be gradually cleansed, and you will be able to see what you are.
We therefore request and recommend that so long we live, we may chant the holy name of God: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. We don't charge anything for giving you this name. It is open to everyone. You can take it and make an experiment. By chanting, you will feel how much you are advancing in spiritual knowledge. This is the shortcut way of understanding God realization. But if you don't believe in the simple method, if you want to understand this philosophy through science and philosophy, we have got books, about one dozen books, four hundred pages each, to explain this science of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
So this Brahma-saṁhitā, the point is, in this Brahma-saṁhitā Kṛṣṇa's name is there. In the Atharva Veda there is Kṛṣṇa's name. So our process of knowledge, if there is Vedic evidence, that is perfect. You don't require to experiment. Experimental knowledge is never perfect. The same example as we have given several times: that which is unknowable, inconceivable, that knowledge you cannot get by experiment. That is not possible. You have to receive the knowledge from authority. Just like you cannot understand who is your father by experiment, laboratory. Bring every man and analyze him whether he is your father. Is it possible? No. How many men you will bring in the laboratory? That is not possible. But if you approach to the authority, the mother, immediately you get the knowledge. Ask your mother, "Who is my father?" She'll say, "Here is your father." That means you receive the knowledge from the authority, not by experimental knowledge. Which is inconceivable, beyond your perception, beyond your imagination, that knowledge you cannot get by experiment.
This is the process. But you can think over. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehe means "Within this body, there is the proprietor of the body." That is soul. Now, by experimenting, by taking in somebody's body, just like in medical science they dissect the body, you cannot find out. It is so small. Therefore you are saying, "There is no soul." But there is soul. From your experimental knowledge, you cannot understand where is that soul, but there is soul. When the soul is out, the body is dead, useless. That we can experience. Anubhāva. It is called anubhāva perception.
So my request is that it is experiment that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can be spread all over the world and there are many, many customers still awaiting. So if we actually want to do welfare to the people of the world, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu predicted, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,
- bhārata bhumite manuṣya-janma haila yāra
- janma sārthaka kari kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
So India, India at least, those who have taken birth as human being, never mind what he is, he has got special privilege. This land is called puṇya-bhūmi. A not ordinary living entity can take birth in this land, Bharata-varṣa. We have got this opportunity. And according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, if we take advantage of the Vedic literature, Veda, Purāṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, anādi bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela, ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karilā.
Simple thing. If you take it simply, religion means, our definition of religion is, to accept the orders of God. That's all. It doesn't matter what religion you are following. You may be Christian, I may be Hindu, that may be Muhammadan, but the test of religion is how one has developed his God consciousness. That is the definition given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. There are different types of religion, but the best of them... Sa vai puṁsāṁ para. Para means superior, the best. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaja is another description of God. Adha, "Where material senses cannot reach." Adhokṣaja. Direct experiment knowledge cannot know God.
So we are giving this information, that "You rascal, you are trying to be happy by your material plan. You will never be happy. Don't be fooled. You have been befooled so many lifetimes. Now just make an experiment in this life. Take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and see whether you are becoming happy or not. Why not make...?" This is our method. That's all. It is very simple thing. You have tasted your life for so many years. Now why not taste this also? In this way, peacefully we have to execute our devotional service. And the more you do, more you become strong, more Kṛṣṇa is pleased upon you.
That is actually happening. It is not story. You can see practically how they are spiritually advancing. So why not experiment yourself? What is the loss? If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, is there any loss? Tell me, is there any loss? But why don't you do it? Why not make a try? Instead of arguing, you see practically what is happening. They are of different civilization, different culture. How they are developing their Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How it is possible? Simply by chanting. This is practical. Throughout the whole world—in Africa, in America, in Canada, everywhere. So this is very simple process. But people will waste their time by arguing. Why not make an experiment and see what is the result? That is our propaganda.
So things which are beyond your perception, you have to know it from authority. Just like the example: Who is my father? We cannot make any experiment. We cannot apply experimental knowledge to find out who is my father. That is not possible. But how we can know? The know it, I can know from the authority of the mother. The mother says, "This gentleman is your father," we have to accept. There is no other experimental... Similarly, the soul, which is beyond the perception of your material senses, you cannot make an experiment. You have no means. But you try to perceive that what is that thing, missing, that now the body is dead.
Present we can see that you are there, I am here. Similarly, in the past also we are existing, and in the future also we shall exist in the same way. As you are individual souls, we are assembled together for understanding something. Similarly, every individual soul is different from one another. We can understand by our present experiment. You are individual soul, I am individual soul. I do not agree with you in every respect, neither you agree with me in every respect. All of us, we have got our individuality. That is our characteristic. That we cannot change. We have got our individuality. We cannot change it. This is our characteristic. And that individuality also meant for giving service. Just like you are all sitting here. Every one of us, we are giving service.
Immediately, we should take this instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavam, yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Therefore we have introduced this Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. This is yajña. In the Kali-yuga, this yajña is possible. So if all over the world... Or make an experiment in some portion. Just go. Just like we are making samples in West Virginia. They are self-sufficient. And the saved time is being utilized for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the remedy. But they'll not take this remedy. They have got their own remedy. So a few men may be happy, so-called happy. The other day, I saw in Calcutta Mr. Kanunga.
You have thoroughly read Bhagavad-gītā, then we understand that "We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is asking to surrender. Why not surrender?" That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa says that is the way of life. Ultimately one has to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is the success, ultimate success. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). One is accepting immediately and one is experimenting with truth, and it will take many, many births. Kleśa adhikataras teṣām avyakta āsakta cetasām. Kṛṣṇa is presently instructing in person, and foolish people are thinking that He's imperson. Why imperson? Kṛṣṇa is always speaking: mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). The first person is used everywhere.
Departure Talks
And when these materialistic persons are disgusted, then they want liberation. Their liberation means to become one, merge into the existence of the Supreme. That is not very difficult. They give the example that the water mixes with the vast mass of water, and they become one. But that is not the fact. You can make an experiment that you take a little red water and put it in the ocean. The ocean does not become red. So chemically also, the water, they are composition of molecules of water. But it is mixed with water. That is a fact, but there is another process which evaporates the water. Suppose you are mixed with the water.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: This experimental knowledge is always imperfect. Because they are experimenting with imperfect senses, therefore they must be imperfect. Our source of knowledge is different. We do not depend on experimental knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: Let us say that the remains of every animal, every living entity that has ever been found in the ground...
Prabhupāda: That is also a limited space. You cannot say you have excavated a portion of the earth and that is all. You cannot say.
Prabhupāda: That is not the denied. Dinosaur you may not have seen, it may be existing some other... Neither I have seen the 8,400,000 different species of, different forms of life. But my source of knowledge is different. Your source of knowledge is different. You are experimenter with imperfect senses. I am taking from the perfect who has seen, who knows things. Therefore my knowledge is perfect. Just the same example: I am receiving knowledge from my mother, "Here is your father," and you are trying to search out where is your father. You don't go to the mother, but you are searching out. So therefore, however you may search, your knowledge always will be imperfect.
Prabhupāda: That is, everyday you see. One day we walk on the beaches, and the next day it is covered with water. That is not very difficult to understand. But when the covered with water portion you cannot experiment, how you can say what is there within? Has Darwin gone within the sea, layers, studied the bottom of the sea?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Where it has become land. And you find that there are sea shells, sea animals, in the layer, in the next layer up more complex forms, in the next layer more complex forms...
Prabhupāda: I mean to say, but there is already sea. Has he gone down the sea and excavated the level of the sea, gone down?
Prabhupāda: That you do not know. That you do not know. Not that he knows. Because we cannot accept that. Nobody has said that they have excavated down the bottom of the sea. But you also said that bottom may be opened at one, some time. So unless it is opened, your experiment is insufficient.
Karandhara: Even if you were to grant that the first life forms on this planet were simple one-celled life, that does not mean that more complex life did not begin earlier on other planets. The theory is not aborted. It may be you can discount the possibility of...
Prabhupāda: The whole thing is that Dr. Frog, famous story. He comes to this country, Dr. Frog's understanding. He has studied the three-feet-wide well, and he says he is satisfied with that. He has nothing to do with the Atlantic Ocean. But Atlantic Ocean is also a reservoir of water, and that well is also a reservoir of water. But (there is a) vast difference. So we take knowledge of who has created Atlantic Ocean. Therefore our knowledge is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Our educational system is tan manye adhītam uttamam. One who is a devotee and executing the nine different processes of devotional service, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23), Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tan manye adhītam uttama, "I think he is first-class scholar. He has studied nicely everything." One who has... Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaj says also that kṛṣṇa ye bali sevalacasi (?), unless one is highly intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Bhagavad-gītā also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). After many, many births of experimenting for solving all problems, when he is actually wise, at that time he takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19), he's first-class, learned scholar.
Prabhupāda: So if that is his philosophy, then why not take the direction from God, Bhagavad-gītā? Why you are making experiments from this platform to that platform? Why you are wasting time in that way? If he agrees that God is eternal, existing, perfect, then why don't you take direct from God, or God's representative? Why you are making experiment?
Śyāmasundara: He also recommends that. He says in this case he's simply formalized the difference between God and man, that God does not have to think; He creates. He does not think; He creates.
Prabhupāda: So he (indistinct) if God is omnipotent, all-powerful, as soon as... That we also say, Vedas, that He doesn't require to make plan how to do things.
Prabhupāda: Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). His energies are so perfect and subtle, as soon as He thinks, "Let there be creation," immediately everything perfectly done. That is God. So if God is perfect in that way, then we should take guidance from God and mold our lives. That is perfect leader. That we are doing. We have taken Bhagavad-gītā, the words of God, and guide, that is the guide, and we are following. Therefore our principle, our process is perfect. We don't make any experiments for perfection. Take. Just like a teacher, if he shows that you write "A" like this, that is perfect. That's all. Why should I go on, lifelong, just like this child is doing, this scientist.
Śyāmasundara: He says that natural laws and ideas, verification of ideas, comes about through class struggle, material production and scientific experiment. That which we know for sure, certainty.
Prabhupāda: (to guest) How are you?
Śyāmasundara: Certain knowledge is gathered from these three sources: class struggle, material production, and scientific experiment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But so-called scientists, they sometimes put forward wrong theories.
Śyāmasundara: Well, he says that the proof is if it works socially, if it has a social effect.
Prabhupāda: That I am coming to. Suppose... Just like a living man and a dead man. So what is the scientific statement about this dead man? What do they say?
Śyāmasundara: Well, that he's just a lump of chemicals.
Prabhupāda: All right. Then if you are scientist, then bring that chemical and fulfill it. That is experiment. If that experiment is not possible, then what is the use of your scientific statement, "It is loss of chemicals"?
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of social. You say that this body is dead because some chemicals are wanting. So you should make experiment that such chemicals be replaced and the body may come out again in life. Then your scientific statement is... Otherwise, it is most unscientific. So how to test the scientist? His theory is not practical. You say that the dead man means some chemical wanting. So you put that chemical. Just like when a motorcar is stopped, so the engineer comes, a mechanic comes, he says, "This part is broken. It should be replaced." All right, replace it and car moves. But you say that "This part is wanting; therefore this man is dead." Now you replace that part. Then it will be scientific because it will be proved by experiment.
Śyāmasundara: Well, speaking more of, for instance, Marx's theory, that...
Prabhupāda: Now, first of all... He said scientific. So I mean to say that so-called scientists are imperfect. So what is the value of such scientific statement? There are so many scientists. Their statements are imperfect. Or other scientists differ. Then what is real scientific? You are scientist and he is scientist. I am talking on the scientific... Experiment. He says experiment. So when a scientist says that "This is wanting," then by experiment let him prove it that actually this is wanting.
Prabhupāda: That is experimented in the Bhagavad-gītā for men like Alexander and company. Arjuna requested that Kṛṣṇa to show His universal form, because he knew that "I am accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, but there are many persons with poor fund of knowledge, they may not accept." Therefore he requested Kṛṣṇa to show him the universal form. That He showed, so that there is another proof for person like Mr. Alexander and company. The, in the Eleventh Chapter, the universal form is very nicely explained. But the universal form was shown by Kṛṣṇa; therefore Kṛṣṇa is original. Universal form is not original; it was manifested by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's natural form is Kṛṣṇa. The universal form is a feature of Him. God... That, that is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. Find out this verse.
Purports to Songs
Two kinds of knowledge are there. You can practically understand by experiment. This is called jāniyā. And another knowledge is by hearing from authoritative source. That is also knowledge. Jāniyā śuniyā "By hearing process and by experimental knowledge, in both ways, I know that this human form of life is meant for engaging in the loving service of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, but I did not do that. That means purposefully I have drunk poison. I have committed suicide." Then golokera prema-dhana, g-o-l-e... No. G-o-l-o-k-e-r-a, golokera.
| Page Title: | Experiment (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Matea, Labangalatika |
| Created: | 19 of Oct, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=112, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 112 |