That is the specific significance of Vṛndāvana. In Vṛndāvana, simply Kṛṣṇa worshipable. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ. That is the vision of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that ārādhya, worshipable Deity, worshipable God, is vrajeśa-tanayaḥ, the son of Nanda Mahārāja, Kṛṣṇa. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. As Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, similarly His place, Vṛndāvana, is also worshipable. Ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū vargeṇa kalpitā. There is no more better form of worship than it was conceived by the damsels of Vraja. Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. And the book, authoritative literature, to understand Kṛṣṇa and His service is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrī-caitanya-mahaprabhor matam idam. This is the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is exactly following the principles of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha tāre kaha upadeśa.
Exactly (Lectures, Other)
Expressions researched:
"exactly"
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Somebody says that "Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years ago. He's no longer present. Then how we shall execute Kṛṣṇa's order?" Kṛṣṇa's order can be executed by executing the order of the spiritual master. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. We cannot disobey. Yasyaprasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. This is the process. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta it has been very extensively explained what is the position of the spiritual master. But at the same time, the spiritual master does not accept himself as he's God or Kṛṣṇa like the Māyāvādīs. No. the bona fide spiritual master always thinks of himself as the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayoḥ dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). Not that "Because my disciples accept me as good as Kṛṣṇa, and because my disciples offer me respect exactly he offers respect to Kṛṣṇa..." That does not mean I am Kṛṣṇa. I am servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is the position.
Otherwise, when you are, we are in training, that is called prakṛta-bhakta. Actually, we are in the material state, but we are being trained up, the Deity worship. This is, following the rules and regulations under the instruction of spiritual master. Or Vedic injunction, this is training period. But even in the training period, if one is sincere and serious, he's liberated. He's liberated. It is so nice. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that even in the training period, although he's not mature, and even one falls immature stage, there is no loss. That is also confirmed by Nārada Muni: tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer patet tato yadi apakva... (SB 1.5.17). There is a verse like this—I don't exactly remember—that if one is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and, and without being mature, somehow or other, if he falls down, there is no loss, whereas other persons, who are sticking to their sva-dharma, but has no idea of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not gain anything. These are the statements of Nārada. Therefore our position should be, our real active life begins when we begin to serve Kṛṣṇa with our senses without being designated, without being situated in designation. This is transcendental stage.
Actually, we are seeing, especially in the Western countries, this motorcar civilization, when we run on on the motorcar, especially with high speed, it is always we think that any moment danger can take place. (aside:) You remember, you were driving your father's car, eighty miles. So I asked you, "Don't go so fast." So the materialistic way of life is that. We create some so-called comforts of life for temporary enjoyment, but at the same time, we take the risk of so many dangerous condition. In the śāstra it is said that this place is padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). In every step there is danger. Although we are trying to mitigate all kinds of discomforts, it is simply changing the burden from head to the shoulder. Just like a coolie carrying some burden, when he feels uncomfortable, he changes the burden from head to the shoulder, but actually, that is not mitigating the pains of burden. Similarly, we are trying to get material comforts by manufacturing or adventing so many scientific discoveries, but that is not actually getting happiness. It is simply changing the position. Exactly, we just consider that in your country, especially, you have got many motorcars, but riding on motorcars, how much dangerous conditions you accept. Everyone accept.
So jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam: (CC Madhya 19.167) "Devotional service should not be contaminated by jñāna-kāṇḍa, karma-kāṇḍa, by fruitive activities or mental speculation." Devotional service should be taken exactly in the line of the great authorities. Just like our sampradāya, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, they are following... Rūpānuga.
Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. Not that by practicing something external, not natural, we become accustomed. That is also sometimes there. But this devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is not that type of practice. It is there already. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabu naya. Not actually by artificial prac... It is there. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya. It is to be awakened. Exactly just like the, the child, by nature, he can walk, but still, if some help is offered to the child, he walks very nicely. So this practice, vidhi-mārga, devotional service, is simply to awaken the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness within the human being. Just like it is happening in our preaching work in the Western countries. These European, American boys, they never heard the name of Kṛṣṇa four years ago, but they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously because it was already dormant in them. It has been simply awakened. By chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, this pure vibration of transcendental sound has enlivened them, and they are awakened to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not that artificially they have taken. It is sure. Anyone can test how much they have advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how they are firmly convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because it has been awakened.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is everywhere. Even in, in our society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society, if there is no mutual cooperation, then it will fall down immediately. So as Rūpa Gosvāmī advises, the first thing is enthusiasm, utsāhān. Utsāhān dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt... (aside:) Why Śyāmasundara is not here? Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅga ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. If you want actually to make progress in our devotional life, the utsāhān, enthusiasm, is the first thing. If you are lacking enthusiasm, then you should rest, instead of making too much agitation within the mind. The... If you cannot find out... Some, something has dropped in the water, in the river, you cannot see the things dropped within the water by agitating the water. Just stand still for sometimes. As soon as the water is settled up, you'll see the things as they are. So as soon as our enthusiasm is agitated, it is better to sit down in any temple suitable and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no question of being disappointed. After all, we commit so many mistakes. That is human nature. To err is human. That is not fault. But try to rectify with cool head. That is required. So similarly, there are different classes of men in the society: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. They should cooperate for the common cause. They do not know the common cause. The common cause is Kṛṣṇa. For Kṛṣṇa's service, we should submit to the immediate officer or commander. Just like soldiers. Soldiers, there is no question of discrimination. Whatever is ordered by the commander, immediately done. Go on.
Mādhavānanda: "That is the present position in the Kali-yuga, this age of quarrel. Nobody is doing his duty, and everyone is simply puffed up by calling himself a brāhmaṇa, intellectual, or a kṣatriya, soldier or statesman. But actually such people are without status."
Prabhupāda: This is the statement exactly. Everyone has to do his duty. Otherwise, simply by name, I have become a great devotee, but if I do not do what is enjoined in the śāstras or the spiritual master, then that is simply false, puffed-up position. Go on.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
The bīja-pradaḥ pitā, the father, is the seed-giving person, and the mother is receiving the seed, and then she is impregnated and they develops the body. As we have got experience, the creation, the creative energy, this is going on, the same process, everywhere. So this Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu—we have already discussed to some extent—is the origin of this material creation. That, the scientists says, that... I do not know exactly what is their theory, but so far I have heard, that... There are so many theories. One of them is "There was a chunk, and from that, this material world..." They have no idea what is material world or spiritual world. But in that way a creation take place. Can anyone say what is the theory or..., of creation? Can any one of you say? What do they say about the creation?
So that is not the way. Therefore śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti-pramāṇam means from the Vedic evidence we have to understand. Now, just like in the Vedas it is said, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. In the Vedas, all knowledge was there, all the living entities described fully and with minute, exact quantity. Now, within the water, we understand from the Vedic literature, there are 900,000 forms of aquatics. Now, the modern scientists, how many they have observed or studied? But it is said exactly, 900,000. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Of course, you cannot enter within the water. But on the land, now different, and that is two million. How many species of plants and trees, and that is two million. How many the botanists have studied? Two million. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Even in your country, in your village, you'll find daily some new vegetable. You see? So these are the Vedic calculation. And not only that, there are different species of life, and how they are working, what senses are predominant in each and every life and everything is described. Everything is very minutely described. Therefore, if we want to have knowledge, you cannot do it by mental speculation. We should know that our mind is very, very limited. Simply by theorizing, it is not possible. Therefore tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet sampit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to know from the supreme authority or the Vedas. Then the knowledge will be perfect.
He will let you know. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). No challenge. That is foolishness. No challenge. Praṇipātena. First of all surrender. You don't surrender to a foolish man, but you have to surrender. Now it is your business to find out where to surrender. But you have to surrender. This is the process. Without surrender, you cannot understand the truth as it is. That is the instruction of Vedas everywhere. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam: (SB 11.3.21) "One has to surrender to guru." Why? Jijñāsu: "If you are inquisitive to know the Absolute Truth." And if you want to know something which is flickering, relative truth, that is another thing. But if you want to know the Absolute Truth, śreyaḥ uttamam... Absolute Truth means ultimate benefit, śreya. Ultimate... Yes, exactly the word, benefit. If you want ultimate benefit, then guruṁ prapadyeta. Who is guru? Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam: one who is expert in understanding the Vedic literature, śābde pare ca, especially transcendental.
So whatever description is there of Vṛndāvana, that is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's pleasure potency. They are not different. Therefore in the beginning it is said, dīvyad, "shining," or "divine," "transcendental." So we should not consider Vṛndāvana as ordinary forest. Here we have got Vṛndāvana on this planet. That is also not ordinary forest. The exactly the same Vṛndāvana as it is Goloka Vṛndāvana... There is no difference. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that
- viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha 'be mana
kabe hāma herabo, śrī-vṛndāvana
Viṣaya chāḍiyā. Our present position is that we are materially diseased, so we have to become free from the material disease. Material disease means sense gratification, and the most formidable disease is sex. This is called material disease. So viṣaya chāḍiyā. We have to be, become free from the contamination of viṣaya, material enjoyment. This is the statement of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura.
Now these are some of the stages explained, and each item is very important. Sveda: when actually one comes to the perfectional stage of emotion, there is perspiration, perspiration from the body, sveda. Kampa: there is shaking of the body, like this. Yes. Shaking of the body. Romāñca: the hairs stands on the holes, romāñca. Gadgada: he fails to speak. He cannot express his words exactly. Vaivarṇya: there is sometimes paleness of the body. Unmāda: just like a madman. Viṣāda: he becomes morose, very sorry, viṣāda. Dhairya: and calm and quiet. Then garva: he becomes pride, sometimes just like a chivalrous man, pride, proud. Harṣa: ecstasy. And dainya: and humble, humbleness. So these are the symptoms of perfection. So sometimes they imitate. So imitation is no good. It will come. When you are in perfectional stage, these symptoms will automatically come.
Just like a fire situated in one place distributing unlimitedly, or limitedly, its heats and energies, heats and light, similarly, whatever we are experiencing within our views in this material world, they are simply manifestation of the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā: (BG 9.4) "I am all-pervading, spreading, in this material manifestation, jagat, in impersonal feature, avyakta-mūrtinā." Everything... Avyakta means Kṛṣṇa is not manifested there, but we can feel. Just like when you see some smoke from a distant place you can immediately understand that there is fire; it is very easy. Similarly, if everything is going on nicely—the sun is rising exactly in the time; the moon is rising exactly in the time; they are illuminating; they are appearing, disappearing; everything is going on, seasonal changes—so if things are going on nicely you cannot say that these things are automatically happening. No. There is no such thing within your experience which is automatically managed. We must appreciate there is some brain behind it. Professor Einstein, the greatest scientist, he admitted that "As we are advancing in scientific research, we are coming to the conclusion that there is a very big brain behind all this."
So just like our real citizens means..., citizenship means that we surrender to the government regulation, similarly, dharma means dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). You cannot manufacture dharma as you cannot manufacture law at home. That is not. Now they are manufacturing and it is being supported, yata mat tata pat. Whatever... (break)...manufacture, it is all right. It cannot be all right. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the Supreme. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Everything is being conducted under His instruction. The sun is rising exactly at time. Yasyājñaya bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. These are description in the Vedic literatures.
- yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahānāṁ
- rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ
- yasyājñaya bhramati sambhṛta kāla-cakro
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
The sun, the most powerful planet within this universe, the eyes of the universe... Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahānām. Without sunrise, however expert you may be in science, you cannot see even. Therefore real eye—the sun. Any sane man will admit. Now it is darkness at night. Have any scientists any instrument to show that everything is visible? No. That is not possible. The real eyes.
So we have to go to a person who is as good as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. As good... How one can become Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu? He is God. How another man can become as good as Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Then he is also God? No. He doesn't require to be God, and neither he can ever become God. That is false. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's equal person means one who speaks the exactly what Caitanya Mahāprabhu speaks. That makes him equal. He doesn't manufacture. If you simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa says or Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, then you become equal to me. Equal to me? That is guru. Guru means who is equal. Sākṣād dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Why guru is accepted as God Himself? Does it mean Māyāvāda philosophy? No. This is not Māyāvāda. Because he is most confidential servant of God—kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya—therefore he's as good as God. He is very, very dear to God. Why? Because he does not speak anything nonsense what his master does not speak, that's all. That is the qualification.
This is Vedic injunction. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Kṛṣṇa... Here He is playing on His flute, but His energies are working. Just like a big man, a big business magnate: he is sitting in his room, but his energy is working—big, big factory is going on; large amount of profit is coming automatically. So if it is possible for ordinary human being that he is sitting in one place, and still, things are going on by management of his energy, so why not Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord? He is sitting in one place. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ, goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. He is situated in His planet, Goloka Vṛndāvana; still His energies are going on. The material energy is working, this material world. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Under His vigilance all the laws of material nature is going on. Exactly in time the sun is rising, the moon is rising. Everything is going on minutely, very nicely. Parāsya śaktiḥ. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. It is going so nicely that Kṛṣṇa hasn't got to learn how to do it. The machine is so perfect, it is going on perfectly.
Don't think that "It is automatically... There was a chunk and there was..." No. Not like that. Everything. But His energy is so perfect. Just like if you want to paint one nice flower, you have to arrange so many things—color, and the brush, and the painting cloth—and you have to apply your energies and... But still, it will not come so perfect. But Kṛṣṇa's energies are so perfect that we see automatically, but there is supervision of Kṛṣṇa. There is no question of accident. Everything is supervised. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. We have to do it with our hand, to paint a picture of a nice rose flower, but in the nature the flower is coming out. We see automatically. No. The Kṛṣṇa's energy is working, there but it is going on so swiftly, so, I mean to say, accurately, that he hasn't got to exact His energy, but it is working automatically. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Whatever knowledge is required... If you have studied, you will find in the petals of the flower the color, exactly symmetrical, everything. Whatever color is required, it is coming out. We say "automatically." No automatically. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā. The knowledge and the action of Kṛṣṇa is so perfect, it is coming out.
So how He becomes parama, the Supreme? Because He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is spiritual, full of bliss and eternal. Therefore He is Supreme Lord. Anādi. So we have got experience that everything has got its cause. Suppose I am lord. But I have got some cause to become lord. Either my father was lord or I have accumulated some wealth, the government has recognized me as lord... Under certain condition, I have become lord. But He is ādi. Ādi means He is the origin. There is nothing beyond Him; therefore ādi. Ādi, anādi. Anādir ādiḥ. Everything has got a cause, but He has no cause. He is Lord, but there is no cause how He has become Lord. When I am lord, there is cause. I cannot become... Perhaps you know that in England, if somebody becomes very rich, he has to deposit some amount of money to the government, then government will award him the title "lord." And with that huge amount of money his family will be maintained, and the first son of the lord family, he will be declared as lord. In this way. So far I have heard. I do not know exactly. But this lord is made, recognized, by the government on deposition of some certain amount of money. The government recognizes, "Yes, this family may be recognized as lord family." They create. In England they create aristocracy. Similarly, when they were in India, they also created many aristocracies. So Kṛṣṇa is not a created, aristocratic lord. That we should know.
Nitya means eternal. Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, appearance and dis..., disappearance, is continuous and eternal. There is no stoppage. Lord Caitanya says, bujhite nā pāre līlā kemane 'nitya' haya. Ordinary persons, common men, cannot understand how kṛṣṇa-līlā, Kṛṣṇa's appearance and disappearance, can be eternal. Generally, we think that Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years before; now He's no longer. So either He's dead or gone. Just like ordinary man takes his birth and stay here for some time and then he goes away—no more, no trace of that particular man's activities. He's lost in the whirlpool of this material ocean. Neither exactly in a similar body, that particular living entity will again come back. Once. This form which you have got, material form, it is just like a bubble in the ocean. It is formed somehow or other according to our past actions and reactions, and it will stay for hundred years at most. Then it will disappear. And there will be no trace where that particular individual soul has gone. Of course, there is account in the books of Supreme Personality of Godhead. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He says, "I know everything." And He's always constant companion. As Supersoul of the individual soul, He knows. But we, the persons of a particular person's relatives, father, mother, brother, all these things—who knows? Nobody can give information. But Kṛṣṇa's appearance and disappearance is not like that, because He's not different from His body. We are, in our conditioned stage, we are different from our body. But Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's body is the same thing. This is to be understood. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda vigraha. His form is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. This material body is not like that. Therefore we cannot understand how kṛṣṇa-līlā is eternal, continuous eternal.
So He is giving example as the planets, sun planet, moon planet and other planets, are moving in their orbits, similarly, kṛṣṇa-līlā has got a orbit, and the līlā is going on. As the sun is moving or the planets, the earth planet is moving exactly at the same time. Just after twenty-four hours it will be meridian, and at 12 o'clock, just twenty-four hours. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's līlā, exactly after certain millions of years, it will be seen in this planet. Similarly, there are innumerable universes, and it is moving from this, that, this, that... Now, just like kṛṣṇa-līlā, just Kṛṣṇa born at, at the prison house of Kaṁsa... Vasudeva, father, and Devakī, mother. Immediately, as soon as the child is born, the next, the next universe, there is birth. So same very thing. Just like now it is quarter to eight according to sun calculation. Immediately, you'll find some other place quarter to eight. Immediately you'll find quarter to eight in other place. Immediately... So quarter to eight you cannot change. Quarter to eight will exist within this movement of the sun planet or earthly planet. Anywhere, somebody, somewhere must be there quarter to eight. At any time. Even at 12 o'clock at night you inquire, "What is quarter to eight of the sun planet?" you'll have. Is it not a fact? This is called nitya-līlā. How nicely Caitanya Mahāprabhu has described.
Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). There was actual some fight between the two cousin groups, and they fought at the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. That Kurukṣetra is still existing. If you go to India that... There is a railway station, Kurukṣetra. It is about 150 miles from Delhi. And people go there for pilgrimage. Therefore it is dharmakṣetra, a place of religious rites. And in the Vedas, Sāma-Veda, I think... I don't exactly remember. But one of the Vedas it is written that kurukṣetre dharma yajayet. In the Kurukṣetra, that place, if anyone wants to perform religious rites, he should go to Kurukṣetra and perform there. It will have better effect. This is the indication in the Vedic literatures. Therefore Kurukṣetra is still accepted. Those who travel, wander in pilgrimages, they go to Kurukṣetra still. The system is going on. If there is a lunar eclipse, they go to Kurukṣetra to make some charities. So Kurukṣetra is accepted from the very, very long period in the Vedic age as the place of pilgrimage. So it is stated there, dharmakṣetra. How can I interpret that this Kurukṣetra means this body? In which dictionary he finds this meaning? But people are so foolish, because Mahatma Gandhi has interpreted, "Oh, it is right." So this is going on.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
Prabhupāda: Yes, any one, if you can... Whatever you have realized, you can say without seeing the book. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Yes...
Karandhara: Everything animate or inanimate in this world is controlled and owned by Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is described that there are two types of energies of Kṛṣṇa, parā prakṛti and aparā prakṛti, the superior energy and the inferior energy. The inferior energy is made up of the gross elements, earth, air, fire, water, and the subtle energy or the subtle material elements are the sky..., excuse me, mind, intelligence and false ego. These make up the parā prakṛti, or the inferior energy of the Lord. But the living entities, they are the superior energy of the Lord. They are aparā prakṛti; henceforth, due to their illusion, their misconception, they are trying to lord it over the parā prakṛti, uh, uh, aparā prakṛti, the inferior energy of the Lord. And they have become entangled. They have become covered by the gross elements. So when one is realizing who the source of the energies, of all these energies are..., who are the proprietor, who are the controller of the energy, then by the Lord's mercy, the Lord being the controller of all these energies, that entity can become free from the covering, from the influence of the material energy, and can resume his natural constitutional position as superior energy and function on that platform in realization of both energies and his relationship with the supreme energy of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. One should not..., one should only accept that which is set aside for him that which is needed. The lusty desire to gain more, for acquiring more—this lust, this perversion, this misunderstanding is exactly what enamors the living entity, parā prakṛti, in the inferior energy, aparā prakṛti. So when one can come to this understanding, that everything is controlled, everything is owned by the Supreme Lord, and that he has no proprietorship, then he can give up this false (conception) of "mine" and "I" and realize that the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, He is the controller, He is the owner, and can once again regain his natural, blissful state, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).
Prabhupāda: Why a living entity is superior energy? Can anyone explain? Why living...? Yes? Stand up.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
So you have to see God, or Kṛṣṇa, in this way. Then you'll advance, make advance. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to see in everything, Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we see living entity... Never mind whether he's a human being or animal or insect or bird or plant or aquatic; they're all living entities. In the sea, there are nine hundred thousand species of living entities. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. These are the statements in the Vedic scriptures. Exactly stated: jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. It does not say ten hundred thousand; it says nine hundred thousand. Exact calculation. Now bring any biologist to calculate how many species are there in the water. They cannot say. But here, in the Padma Purāṇa, Vedic literature, you get exact information how many species of living entities are there within the water. Everyone knows that there are living entities, full of living entities. We are catching fish, but small fishes. We have not seen. Even if we have seen the biggest fish, that is, whale... Sometimes they are as big as one big ship. But there are other fishes, we get information, they are called timiṅgila. The big fish, the whale fish, and timiṅgila means there is another big fish which swallows this timiṅgila, this whale just like anything. These informations are there. And in Calcutta Museum, in our childhood—it may be still existing—we saw one skeleton of a fish that is bigger than this room, a skeleton. It is hanging on the ceiling. So there are very, very big, big fishes. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. You get immediately information, without being a biologist, scientist, you can get information. The Darwin's theory, in most perfection, there is in the Padma Purāṇa: jīva-jatiṣu. The evolutionary theory is there. But Darwin is missing the real point: Who is, who is evolving? He's missing the spirit soul. He cannot explain. That is imperfect.
Actually there is no problem. Exactly the same example, just like at night in dream we create so many problems, but actually there is no problem. But dreaming, that I am in such and such position, I am being harassed, somebody is taking my money, somebody is pinching me, so many things. I am in the front of tiger, there is ghost, there is so many things. So these problems, actually there is no problem, but by dreaming he is creating, mental. Asaṅgo hy ayaṁ puruṣaḥ, Veda says that this puruṣa, the ātmā, the soul has no connection with all these things. So we have created, by material concoction, so many problems. So the whole process is how to cleanse this dreaming condition of life.
Festival Lectures
So your senses are imperfect, you are cheating, you are illusioned, and you commit mistake. How you can give perfect knowledge? Therefore we don't accept any knowledge from an imperfect personality. Because that is imperfect knowledge, what is the use of that knowledge? Theorizing. No theory. We want to know fact. That is perfect knowledge. So that perfect knowledge can come from God. And one who distributes that knowledge exactly as God has said, he is perfect. Just like a post peon comes and delivers you, say, one hundred dollars. So he is not delivering that one hundred dollars. Your friend has sent you one hundred dollars, and his business is to hand over that one hundred dollars as it is, without any change, without taking one dollar from it, no, or adding. No addition, no subtraction. His honesty, his perfection, is that he delivers you that hundred dollars which is sent by your friend. That is his honest..., perfection. He may be imperfect in so many others ways, but when he does his business perfectly, he is perfect. Similarly, our, this Vyāsa-pūjā means we receive perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa through the agency of spiritual master.
So spiritually, appearance and disappearance, there is no difference. Just like in material point of view, if a person takes birth... Suppose you get a son born, you become very happy. The same son, when passes away, you become very unhappy. This is material. And spiritually, there is no such difference, appearance or disappearance. So although this is the disappearance day of Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, so there is nothing to be lamented. Although we feel separation, that feeling is there, but spiritually, there is no difference between appearance and disappearance. There is a song, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song, ye anilo prema-dhana. Do you know, any one of you? Can you sing that song anyone? Oh. Ye anilo prema-dhana, karuṇā pracura, heno prabhu kothā gelo. I don't remember exactly the whole song. That is our lamentation, that Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura brought this message to distribute all over... Of course, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu expressed His desire, that
- pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma
- sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
- (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)
He predicted that "All over the world, as many towns and villages are there, everywhere My name will be known." Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name.
So you can understand whether a man is in sattva-guṇa or a man is in rajo-guṇa or a man is in tamo-guṇa by the symptoms of his behavior. So as we associate with different types of guṇas we develop a certain type of mentality that continues, and if it continues up to the point of death, then certainly we'll have to accept a body influenced by these guṇas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Yasmāt, these guṇaiḥ. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ. According to the association of guṇa, or quality, prakṛti gives you a certain type of body. The body is given by prakṛti, by nature. Therefore, nature is called mother, Durgā. Just like we develop this body exactly from the mother's womb. The father gives the seed, but the bodily ingredients, that is... Just like mother is developing the body, similarly, she is developing the child's body also, by eating, by the secretion, by development of the secretion, air. Air is solidifying the secretion. It is becoming gradually muscles, skin, bone, as it is becoming harder and harder. A very nice factory is going on. That is also by nature. And nature is working by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Prabhupāda: No, no. We admit without application. There is no need of application. You'll please come and stay with us, that's all. Our door is open. We are rather appealing to the person, "Please come." In ordinary institution you have to put your application. When it is sanctioned, then you are admitted. We are canvassing, "Please come, please come, please come." Still they are not coming.
Woman Guest: That isn't exactly what I meant. I just wondered if you made arrangements with the government to...
Prabhupāda: Yes, we're trying for that.
Woman Guest: It's still under way now?
Prabhupāda: To get our institution in New Vrindaban, the government has said that "You make such and such building." So we have no money, but still we are trying. So as soon as the government conditions are fulfilled, we'll get government cooperation also.
Woman Guest: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: That's all. (end)
So the necessity of this movement is that we are creating brain. At the present moment the human society is lacking brain. Exactly they are living like cats and dogs, not with human brain. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The human society must be divided into four classes of divisions, or divisions, catur-varṇya: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, and the śūdra. Brāhmaṇa means the most intelligent class of men, and kṣatriya means administrators, and the vaiśya means mercantile people, and śūdra means ordinary workers. All of them are required proportionately. Just like to keep up your body you require your head, you require your arms, you require your belly, and you require your legs also. Comparatively studying, head is very important than the leg, but that does not mean leg is unimportant. Everything wanted for the upkeep of the body. Similarly, for upkeep of the society, human society, there must be intelligent class of men, there must be administrator class of men, there must be productive class of men and there must be worker class of men. At the present moment, the human society is giving stress on the mercantile class of men and worker class of men. Actually, there is no intelligent class of men or administrative class of men. So our movement is creating some intelligent class of men. According to our Vedic knowledge, the first-class intelligent man is he who knows what is God. He's first-class intelligent man. Otherwise cats and dogs, they also eat, sleep, have sexual intercourse, and die.
So anyone can understand that this body may be very, very important, scientist, politicians, and so on, so on. But as soon as the soul is gone from this body, it is useless, not worth even a farthing. Anyone can understand. Similarly, as the soul is the important thing in this body, my body, your body, or anyone's body, similarly in this huge gigantic body of universe, there must be one soul. Otherwise how it is going on? How it is working so nicely? The big sun is rising exactly in time, the moon is rising exactly in time, the seasons are changing one after another. So many millions and millions of living entities, they are being maintained. Everyone is getting their food, even the elephant who eats at a time hundred kilogram, he also eats. An ant also eats. The birds also eat, the beast also eats—there is no problem. Only the civilized man, so-called civilized man, he creates problem because duṣkṛtina. He has got merit, but it is being used for sinful activities. Therefore there is problem. Otherwise there is no... If the birds have no problem, the beasts have no problem, the ant has no problem, why the civilized man has got problem? Because they are duṣkṛtina and mūḍha. Rascal and always engaged in sinful activities, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Simple thing.
My dear devotees, ladies and gentlemen, I am very glad to see you again, I think, after four years? Three years. I was trying to come here again—I like this place—but due to various engagements and due to my old age also, I could not come earlier. But this time, by the arrangement of our Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja, I have been forced to come here. (laughter) So I must thank you for your nice reception. I was received by police escort very nicely, and I remember once I traveled with the governor of UP in 1962 from Lucknow to Kanpur. So exactly we were driving in the same fashion, escorted by the police motorcycle. So anyway, I am so pleased to see you, that you are interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Now this progeny is bother. It is sense enjoyment, homosex. Progeny, they don't want. They're not interested. Only sense gratification. This is another sign of impotency. When after enjoying so many women, they become impotent, then they artificially create another sex impulse in homosex. This is the psychology. So people are degraded so much. Especially in the... Everywhere, not specially this or that. Everywhere. This is Kali-yuga. But thoughtful leaders, they are thinking, "What to do?" That's very good sign. And take advantage and give them program exactly to the direction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then the world will be saved. Otherwise it is doomed. It is a fact. This is the opportunity for preaching. You can take that paper and heading. There are so many headings. Each heading reply. We are the only persons who can give solution. There is no other group or any man in the world. We are only. So let them take advantage of our knowledge and apply in the society to the ben... That's all right. Now all the sannyāsīs have got the good opportunity to preach. So where is the key? Keep it. (end)
Initiation Lectures
So this is a process... Vaiṣṇava process is paramparā process. So today this nice girl is going to be initiated. She must learn this science, this very nice science, and you all Godbrothers and sisters will help her. Anyone who is trying to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, he should be given or she should be given all kinds of facilities. You'll be glad to learn that our Hayagrīva brahmacārī, he is taking one land in West Virginia, 136 acres of land. So I've advised him to develop it into New Vrindaban. So I have got today his letter, the document he is preparing through the lawyer. So it is also a nice project. If by Kṛṣṇa's desire we can develop a center just exactly prototype of Vṛndāvana, it will be very nice. Those American boys and girls who cannot go so long distance, 14,000 miles, they will have facility. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facilities. Simply we have to be very sincere and everything will be done nicely.
This is a special gift of Lord Caitanya that... In this age there are so many anomalies, defects in the life of human being that gradually they are giving up the idea of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. Not only gradually they are giving up, they have already given up. So Vedānta-sūtra therefore says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. It is not that a different type of religious system we have introduced. It is a great necessity of the present day. Because we say that either you follow scripture, Bible, or you follow Koran or you follow Vedas, the aim is God. But at the present moment, due to the influence of this Kali-yuga... Kali-yuga means the age of quarrel and disagreement. So in this age people are embarrassed in so many ways. First disqualification is that they do not live for long time. The average duration of life in India is thirty-five years, and I do not know exactly what is the average age here, but in India the people are overcrowded. They have no such intelligence, or they did not care to go outside India, colonize. Everyone went there to exploit, but they never thought of exploiting other places. That is their cultural... They do not try to encroach upon others' property. Anyway, India's position is very precarious, because they have left their own culture and they're trying to imitate the Western culture, which they cannot due to so many circumstances, and therefore they're put into, between the horns of Scylla and Charybdis. You see.
Prabhupāda: Dāsa. Not that name, but the name's servant. Dāsa. When one is named Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa dāsa, he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Not that Kṛṣṇa. If he thinks, "I have become Kṛṣṇa," that is Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Go on.
Pradyumna: The next offense is guror avajñā, to neglect or disrespect the orders of the spiritual master. Because the spiritual master is the external representation of the internal Kṛṣṇa, whatever the spiritual master says is to be taken as exactly what Kṛṣṇa's desire is. Kṛṣṇa is within all of us as Paramātmā, but because we cannot see Him, because He is adhokṣaja, or above our senses, therefore that same Kṛṣṇa within appears without as the spiritual master, and he gives us instructions, and these are taken to be the same as Kṛṣṇa's instructions. So to disrespect the orders of the guru is not to make any progress on the spiritual path. Na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. There can be no gatiḥ, there can be no spiritual achievement without following the orders of the spiritual master. Because the order of the spiritual master is the same as Kṛṣṇa's order. Śruti-śāstra-nindanam. One should not make blasphemy the śruti, which are the Vedas, and śāstra, the śāstras which follow the Vedas. This is Mahābhārata, the Purāṇas, the itihāsa, the smṛti. Śruti-smṛti. These are the two eyes. It is said the brāhmaṇa has two eyes: one is śruti, one is smṛti. So by these śāstras we can understand, because the śāstras are made by God, because they are emanating from God; therefore they are perfect. As Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Not different. Not different from God.
General Lectures
Now, some of you members have asked me to explain the meaning of this chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now, this sound is transcendental sound, transcendental sound, incarnation, sound incarnation of the Absolute Truth. Just try to understand what is incarnation. Incarnation means... The Sanskrit word is avatāra, and that is translated into English as "incarnation." Of course, the root meaning of incarnation I cannot exactly explain to you, but the root meaning of the... (aside:) Somebody stop. Yes. The root meaning of avatāra is "which comes from the transcendental sky, the spiritual sky, to the material sky." That is called avatāra. Avataraṇa. Avataraṇa. Just like... Avataraṇa means "coming from up to down." That is called avatārana. And avatāra is understood that when God or His bona fide representative comes from that sky to this material plane, that is called avatāra.
So our, this sound representation of the Supreme Lord constantly will make us... Just like our association with the fire, the, I mean to say, iron rod's association with the fire makes the rod equally qualified, exactly—not equally qualified, but almost the quality of burning it gets—similarly, by our constant association with Lord... Lord is not only incarnation in a sound form. He is incarnated in many other forms, in many other forms. Just like arcā. Arcā means the form of the Lord situated, I mean to say, established in some temple and worshiped. That is also incarnation of God. That is not idol worship. People do not know that this is an authorized process of realizing God, or they have never tasted or practiced it. They cannot understand. They say it is idol worship. No. It is not idol worship. It is not idol worship. I'll give you one example. Just like in the front of your door there is a box—"U.S. Mail," it is written. And you put your letters within that box, and after few days you get reply from your friend that "I have received your letter, and this is such and such, such and such." Now, if somebody puts another box like that, exactly imitation: "Then why shall I spend postage to putting letters in this box, U.S. Mail? I require postage. But then why shall I not put up a box like that? Let me prepare a box like that so that it can go without postage. I want to save postage." Now, he is going on, putting letters in that without postage. And after some time he sees all the letters are lying there; it has not been dispatched—because it is imitation. And the box which is supplied by the post office, that is authorized.
Prabhupāda: Well, you have to follow the process. Then you will feel. Just like if you are diseased, if you have to be under the treatment of the physician and you have to take medicine, and when you're actually free, you will yourself feel, "Yes, I am free." But without going under treatment of an expert physician, or taking the medicine, how you can be free from disease? Yes?
Student (8): I don't understand exactly how Kṛṣṇa consciousness is different than the other religions. Like in Christianity, Judaism and Moslem they have the idea that a person can pray and sometimes chant, communicate with God, understand His way. And all religions seem to have this. So I don't see how it's different.
Prabhupāda: There is no difference. I have already explained that we are recommending that you chant the holy name of God. If you have got any holy name of God in your religion, you can chant that. We don't say that you chant Kṛṣṇa. Just like you are thirsty, you want water. Somebody may call "water," somebody may call "pani," somebody may call "jala." That doesn't matter. But you want water. Similarly, if you have got any name for calling the Supreme Lord, you call in that name. It doesn't matter. That is our recommendation. When we say, harer nāma. Harer nāma means the holy name of the Supreme Lord. Yes?
Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, what was exactly predicted by Lord Caitanya when He predicted the Golden Age of Kali, the age in the Age of Kali when people would be chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?
Prabhupāda: Yes. People... Just like we are now preaching Hare Kṛṣṇa. In your country there was no such preaching. So we have sent our students in Europe, Germany, London—you are also spreading. In this way it is only, we are, our activities since 1966 practically. We have registered the association in 1966, and this is '68. So gradually we are spreading. And of course, I am old man. I may die. If you have taken up this formula very nicely, then you will go on preaching, and it may be spread all over the world. Very simple thing. Simply we require a little intelligence. That's all. So any intelligent man will appreciate. But if anyone wants to be cheated, then how he can be saved if one willingly wants to be cheated? Then it is very difficult to convince him. But those who are open-hearted, they will certainly accept this nice movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes.
Our awareness is there. You love somebody. But you are meant to love Kṛṣṇa, that you have forgotten. So forgetfulness is also our nature. Sometimes we forget. And especially because we are very small, minute, therefore even I cannot remember exactly what I was doing last night at this time. So forgetfulness is not unnatural for us. And again, if somebody revives our memory, to accept that, that is also not unnatural. So our loving object is Kṛṣṇa. Somehow or other, we have forgotten Him. We don't trace the history when we forgot. That is useless labor. But we have forgotten, that is a fact. Now revive it. Here is reminder. So take opportunity. Don't try to history why you have forgotten and what was the date of my forgetfulness. Even if you know, what is the use? You have forgotten. Take it. Just like if you go to a physician, he'll never ask you how you got this disease, what is the history of this disease, at what date, at what time you were infected.
Young man: What do you want me to... What...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all try to understand your disease. Then we shall diagnose your medicine.
Young man: I'm feeling wrongly, okay, but... But who do I or what... What exactly do I bow down to... I mean...
Prabhupāda: You are bowing down to everyone. You are bowing down to death, you are bowing down to disease, you are bowing down to old age. You are bowing down to so many things. You are forced. And still you are thinking that "I cannot bow down. I don't like." Because you are saying "I don't like," therefore you are being forced. You have to bow down. Why you forget your position? That is our disease. Therefore the next process is that "I am being forced to bow down." Now we have to find out "Where I shall be happy even by bowing down?" That is Kṛṣṇa. Your bowing down will not be stopped, because you are meant for that. But if you bow down to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's representative, you become happy. Test this. You have to bow down. If you don't bow down to Kṛṣṇa and His representative, then you will be forced to bow down something else, māyā. That is your position. You cannot be free at any moment. But you'll feel... Just like a child is twenty-four hours bowing down to his parents. He's happy. He's happy. Mother says, "My dear child, please come down, sit down here." "Yes." He's happy. This is the nature.
Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chuckles) Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim (Nārada Pañcarātra). Govindam ādi-puruṣa is known as Hari. Hari means "who takes away all your miseries." That is Hari. Hara. Hara means taking away. Harate. So just like thief also takes away, but he takes away the valuable things, material consideration, sometimes Kṛṣṇa also takes away your material valuables just to show you special favor. Yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ (SB 10.88.8). Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja inquired from Kṛṣṇa that "We are supposed to be very pious. My brothers are great warriors, my wife is exactly the goddess of fortune, and above all, You are our personal friend. So how is this that we have lost everything? (chuckling) We have lost our kingdom, we have lost our wife, we have lost our honor—everything." So in reply to this, Kṛṣṇa said, yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ: "My first favor is that I take away all riches of My devotee." Therefore people are not very much enthusiastic to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But He does it. Just like the Pāṇḍavas were in the beginning put into difficulty, but later on they became the most exalted personalities throughout the whole history. That is Kṛṣṇa's favor. In the beginning, He may do like that because we have got attachment for our material acquisitions.
This age is called, according to the Vedic language, Kali. Kali-yuga means the age of disagreement and dissension. So in the Vedas it is recommended that kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu (SB 12.3.52). In the Golden Age... Of course, the kṛte, the Sanskrit word, exactly there is no English translation, but generally we have got a conception of Golden Age. So take it for granted that kṛte, kṛte means in the age when everyone was pure. Cent percent, people were pure. That is called Kṛta-yuga. The next yuga is called Tretā, when seventy-five percent of the people, they were pure, and twenty-five percent were not pure. And then Dvāpara. Dvāpara means fifty percent-fifty percent pure and fifty percent nonpure. Then this age is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means seventy-five percent or more than seventy-five percent, they are impure, and twenty-five percent, I mean to say, that is in book, but actually ninety percent or more than that are impure and maybe five percent pure. This is the situation of this age. And they are also living very short time. In this age, life, duration of life, is reduced, memory is reduced, man's compassion is also reduced. Similarly, there are so many things, they are reduced. Although we are thinking that we are advancing, but actually the most important things we are reduced. Take for example the duration of life. Every one of us knowing very well that as your father or forefather or grandfather lived for long duration of life, it is very difficult to find out a man who is over seventy years or eighty years. I have got experience. My grandmother lived for ninety-five years.
My dear boys and girls, I thank you very much for participating in our saṅkīrtana. It is very simple, chanting the sixteen words Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Actually there are only three words: Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma. It is not difficult. Everyone can immediately, within a second, can chant these three names, Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma. But to make it still easier and suitable, they have been arranged in two lines of eight words each line. That is very rhythmic, and one feels immediately transcendental pleasure to chant. It is not hackneyed. We have chanted about exactly half an hour, but if we chant even twenty-four hours, you'll never feel tired. That is the significance, practical. You will feel more and more enthusiastic to chant. Our boys and girls do that. In the beginning, of course, you may not understand, but you take to this practice of chanting, you'll feel immediately transcendental pleasure. I saw, although some of you could not join us in dancing and chanting, but you were, from your seat, you were trying to dance. That I have seen. It is practical. We have seen even children, they immediately take to this dancing and chanting. So it is not very difficult. The most easy process of transcendental realization. We don't ask you to press your nose, or put your head downwards, or make some gymnastic. No. In whatever condition you are, it doesn't matter. You simply chant these sixteen names. There is no secrecy. We are not charging any fees, that "You pay me so many dollars, I'll give you a secret mantra, and you chan..." No. It is open. It is distributed freely. Simply you have to take it. That's all. The result will be, oh, great. Make an experiment. You have no loss. You haven't got to pay anything. But if you take this, the result will be very, very great, which has no comparison in this world. That is practical.
My dear boys and girls. I thank you very much for your participating in this great saṅkīrtana movement. This saṅkīrtana movement is recommended for self-realization in this age. This age is called, according to Vedic understanding, it is called Kali-yuga, the age of quarrel and disagreement, this age. So, besides that, there are many other symptoms of this age. They are described in the Vedic literatures, and they are coming exactly true. That is scripture.
Govinda has dealing. That dealing He represents exactly when He comes, when He appears on this planet, and that dealing is exhibited in Vṛndāvana-dhāma. You know Vṛndāvana-dhāma. When Kṛṣṇa comes... About forty-three crores of years interval, Kṛṣṇa comes. This estimation, these things are there. Kṛṣṇa comes in one day of Brahmā. The duration of Brahmā's day, you know. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). This means forty-three lakhs of years multiplied by one thousand. That is the duration of one day of Brahmā. And similarly, the duration of his night. So Kṛṣṇa comes in one day during that duration. So when Kṛṣṇa comes, He comes here the same place, Vṛndāvana.
Indian man (1): This example is very interesting, coconut tree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many things. So many things. But there is explanation in the Vedas, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). The energy of Kṛṣṇa is working so wonderfully that it appears that exactly it is done by expert person. Now, take a flower, this flower. How nicely it is painted.
Indian man (1): Comes out of a green thing, red.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. And how perfectly it is made, coloring. The most beautiful. Nobody can suggest that further coloring this way would have been better. No. This is parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī. Automatically it is done. Automatically.
Indian man (1): And seasonal.
Prabhupāda: Seasonal.
In the Bhagavad-gītā... We are trying to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to preach Bhagavad-gītā. We have not invented something, but we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation. Therefore, because we are presenting pure Bhagavad-gītā, people are accepting it very quickly. Unfortunately, before this in the Western countries there was so many translation of Bhagavad-gītā, but everyone's attempt is to make Kṛṣṇa—minus Bhagavad-gītā. They are commenting Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa; kingdom of God without God. That is their attempt. But we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. In the Bhagavad-gītā the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. We are presenting in that way. We are presenting Kṛṣṇa in the Western world. When I first went there the people were saying, "God is dead." Exactly in the same way as in our country also. We have been misled by so-called leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ.
So he's a person. He's a person, and his globe is the sun globe. And from the sun globe, there is sunshine. Similarly, there is a planet which is known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. In the spiritual world there are millions of planets there. As we have got millions of planets here in this material world, millions of universes, similarly, the spiritual world there are millions of planets, globes, which are called Vaikuṇṭhalokas. And the topmost of the Vaikuṇṭhalokas is called Goloka Vṛndāvana or Kṛṣṇaloka. That is the original abode of Lord Kṛṣṇa. And from that globe, there is effulgence, which is bodily effulgence of Kṛṣṇa. We get this information from Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadāṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). Yasya prabhā. The brahma-jyotir is the bodily effulgence of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Exactly the sunshine is the bodily effulgence of Vivasvān, it is being emanating, it is emanating from the sun globe, similarly, the brahma-jyotir is emanating from Kṛṣṇaloka. And in that Kṛṣṇa, Brahman effulgence, so many universes and so many Vaikuṇṭha planets are growing exactly the same way as so many planets have grown from the sunshine. This is scientific.
You can take it," and if you are sane man, you will say, "No, no. I don't want it. Give me that original. Why shall I take this? Let it be cheaper, but I don't want it." Similarly, why should we accept so-called incarnation of Kṛṣṇa? We should accept Kṛṣṇa, original Kṛṣṇa. Original Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's words are identical. When you read Bhagavad-gītā, you are exactly in front of Kṛṣṇa, as Arjuna was in front of Kṛṣṇa while Kṛṣṇa was personally speaking. That is transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa. Why He has left this instruction? Because if we accept the teachings of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, immediately we are in presence of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the other day I cited the example of the illiterate brāhmaṇa. So that is transcendental way of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Take this formula. Kṛṣṇa says here that everything that is working in this material or spiritual world, they are different energies of Kṛṣṇa. He is the original source of creation, He is the original source of maintenance, and He is the original source of annihilation. Therefore nobody is greater than Him. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Na anyat: "There is no other greater elevated." Kiñcid asti: "Not even one." You cannot say, "Here is something which is greater than Kṛṣṇa." That is not possible. Na anyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya, mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva. Just like in your necklace, pearl necklace, all the pearls are situated in the thread, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the thread and everything existing... This will be explained more explicitly in the Thirteenth Chapter.
So Govinda, the ādi-puruṣa, whose plenary portion is Mahā-Viṣṇu. And what is Mahā-Viṣṇu's activity? That He is lying on the Causal Ocean, and while He is breathing, with His breathing only, innumerable universes are coming out. And innumerable universes are going into Him. In this way He is sleeping. That Mahā-Viṣṇu is the plenary portion of Kṛṣṇa. So we have to believe in the śāstras, and there is no other way for understanding Kṛṣṇa. What is beyond our imagination, beyond our mental cultivation, beyond the reach of our senses, we have to accept authority. Exactly in the same way, just like we have to accept somebody as our father simply on the version of mother, similarly, we have no information of Kṛṣṇa, but we have got Kṛṣṇa's books, we have got Vedic literatures, and if we study... Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: you have to see through the śāstras. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa and your life will be successful.
So in the Bhagavad-gītā everything is divided into three divisions. There are religions of different qualities, and there are actions of different qualities. Exactly the same example: as there are differences between the crows and the swans, similarly there are different persons in the human society. One class of person, they take pleasure in one class of thing, and another person, they take in a different type. So that divisions will continue so long we are in this material world. But we are talking of original consciousness. These are contaminated consciousness. When we come to the original consciousness, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are trying to bring everyone to that platform. That is our program. (break) ...we explain... Just like when the water from the sky drops on the ground, immediately it becomes muddy. Now, if the water drops in too much muddy place, it becomes too much muddy. And if it drops in a clear place, then it remains clarity. Similarly, our coming in contact of this material world means we come in contact of the three qualities of matter: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa.
So, I am so pleased that these boys are kindly helping me in spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and Kṛṣṇa will bless them. I am very insignificant. I have no capacity. My business is only to convey the message of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a postal peon: his business is to convey the letter. He is not responsible for the body of the letter. The reaction... After reading one letter the addressee may feel something, but that responsibility is not for the peon. Similarly, my responsibility is, what I have received from disciplic succession, from my spiritual master, I am just presenting the same thing, but without any adulteration. That is my business. That is my responsibility. I must present things exactly in the same way as it was presented by Kṛṣṇa, as it was presented by Arjuna, as it was presented by our ācāryas, Lord Caitanya, and at last my spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja. So, similarly, if you take up the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the same spirit, and if you distribute to other people, to your other countrymen, surely it will be effective, because there is no adulteration. There is no bluff. There is no cheating. It is pure spiritual consciousness. Just practice it and distribute it. Your life will be glorious.
So they are very much proud: "We have invented horseless carriage." Or wingless bird. There is wing, imitation wing of the aeroplane. But you invent that a soul-less body. Then there is credit. That cannot be... No machine can work without a soul. I was talking of this computer. What is called? Computer? Eh? Computer. But still, a trained man requires to handle the computer. Then what is the meaning of this computer? Whatever machine you make... Similarly, we should understand that this great machine, which is known as cosmic manifestation, material nature—there is a supreme spirit which is manipulating. That is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says. It is confirmed. So our process of knowledge is very easy and perfect. The scientists, they are searching out what is the ultimate cause or ultimate control of this material nature, and they are putting, theorizing different propositions. But our means of knowledge, very easy and perfect because we are hearing from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. And He says, mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). So immediately we know that all this cosmic machine, which is working so nicely and wonderfully, behind this machine the driver is Kṛṣṇa. Exactly behind a machine here, there is a machine driver, similarly, behind this big machine of material nature, there is Kṛṣṇa.
I think I have given many times this example. Just like in front of your door there is a mailbox. That mailbox, although it appears to be a small box, but it is post office. It is not different from post office. The practical example is that you place your letters within the box and it goes thousands and thousand miles away. Therefore it is post office. Don't think that it is different from the post office. Similarly, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa expansion—this Deity. When you are worshiping this Deity, exactly, just like you are posting your letters in the mailbox, it is accepted by Kṛṣṇa. Don't think that you are worshiping some doll. No. As the post office kindly places a box before your house to facilitate your business, similarly Kṛṣṇa, goloka eva nivasati, He is living in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, but He expands Himself as Deity to accept your humble service. Never consider that the Deity is made of stone or brass or wood or like that. Brass, wood, stone—everything is Kṛṣṇa because everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Me, "It is Mine." So everything is Kṛṣṇa's, and from everything, Kṛṣṇa can appear and accept your service. This is the philosophy. He can appear Himself through stone because stone is His energy. Just like if the electric power is running on, from anywhere you can take electricity, energy.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja is advising his friends, "My dear friends." The friends were replying, "Now we are children, we shall play. Why you are asking us the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa consciousness? This is the business of the old men." "No," Prahlāda Mahārāja said. "No, it is not the business of the old men. You should learn it from the very childhood." Kaumāram. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). The first thing is that human life is for cultivating dharma, religion. The other day I explained that dharma and religion is not the exactly synonymous. Dharma means which you cannot leave. Dharma, the example I gave the other day, just like sugar cannot give up the quality of sweetness. Similarly, the water cannot give up the quality of liquidity. The fire cannot give up the quality of heat and light. Similarly, every living entity has his original characteristic, which is called dharma. That characteristic is described by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). This is the characteristic.
So we do not know, we are not certain that what kind of body I am going to get next, but we will have one body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). As I am getting one type of body from another type... In my this life, I was a child, I was a baby, I was a boy, I was a young man, now I am old man. As I am changing my body differently—I was a small child, I can remember personally. When I was about 6 months old, I was lying down on the lap of my eldest sister. She was at that time married, and she was knitting. I remember. I was seeing how she was knitting. I can remember. But where is that body? Then another body, another body, another body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, when I give up this body, then I must accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But that I do not know. That will be considered by higher authorities, daiva-netreṇa, exactly as I told you that the service record is checked by higher authorities and he is promoted. So how one can know where one has gone? We keep one man's statue, but we do not know where the man has gone, where the soul has gone. But we keep the statue as if he is staying there. This is called illusion. We do not know where my leader has gone, but I am worshiping the leader's statue on the street, and it has become the place for passing stool on his head by the crows, and we are worshiping. But when you go to worship in the temple, it is idol worship. We are worshiping the statues, but when you go to worship in the temple, "That is idol worship."
The scientists say that the sun is rotating in its orbit so carefully that if it moves from one side, the whole universe will be immediately turned into ice, and if it moves the other side, then immediately the whole universe will be ablaze. So carefully, yasya ajñāyā bhramati. The scientists have seen so far that the sun is moving very carefully. Neither this side nor that side, exactly in the orbit. So who has ordered, who has planned this orbit? The Brahma-saṁhitā informs, yasya-ajñāyā, by whose order the sun is rotating exactly in the orbit, yasyājñāyā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. "I am offering..." He is not struck with wonder by the arrangement in the material world, how the sun is moving, how the moon is moving, how the nature is working.
So this paramparā system, the subject I was discussing, that how I become the representative of Kṛṣṇa, it is not very difficult. Everyone can become a representative of Kṛṣṇa provided he exactly presents what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. Just like a peon, he is also representative of the postal department, ordinary peon. How he becomes representative of the whole postal system? If he delivers your letter or money order without mishandling it, as it is. You have... Some friend has sent you some money order. He gives you the paper, you sign, and he pays you. But if he pilfers the method(?), then he is no longer representative. He becomes thief, rogue. So representative of Kṛṣṇa is also in the same way. If you present Kṛṣṇa's word as it is, without pilfering, without any adulteration, then you become Kṛṣṇa's representative. There is no difficulty. But, unfortunately, people want to show their scholarship, that "I understand Bhagavad-gītā from this angle of vision." Why should you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā from a different angle of vision? The first preference should be given to the author.
So many things, we do not know—partially we know—although I am the proprietor. If there is some defect in the bodily function, I cannot detect it. I go to another person, a physician. So although I am proprietor of this body, I do not know exactly what is functioning, how it is becoming in happy condition or in morose condition. So... But supposing that I know everything, but still, I do not know what is happening in your body. That is not possible. Therefore it is concluded that we are individuals. We are individuals. I have got my individual pains and pleasures; you have got your individual pains and pleasures. So you are individual person; I am individual person. And the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is also individual person. Nityo nityānām. This is Vedic information. We are plural number, nityānām. Cetanaś cetanānām. He's the supreme living force amongst all other living forces.
Big, big scientists, philosophers, we are trying to understand the activities of the material nature. We cannot go beyond that. That is also very imperfect. Our understanding of this material nature, how it is working, how things are happening in a systematic way, how the sun is rising exactly in due course, due time, how it is setting—there are so many things we do not know. Just like we are trying to go the moon planet, but why we are becoming failure, at least, up to date? They say that there is no living entity in the moon planet, but here we find in the Bhagavad-gītā, nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ. The living entity is everywhere. At least, we find on this planet, even in deserted place, there are a certain type of vegetable. That is living entity. Sometimes some microbes. Sometimes insect. So the statement of Bhagavad-gītā is sarva-gataḥ: "Living entities everywhere." We practically see in our experience. We find living entities, the aquatics, in the water. We find living entities within the earth. There are so many insects. We find living entities in the air. We find living entities on the land, in the sky, and so many places. So this is confirmed: sarva-gataḥ. Nityaḥ. The living entity is eternal and he is everywhere. Sarva-gataḥ. Sthāṇur acalo 'yaṁ sanātanaḥ. Sanātanaḥ. Concluding sanātanaḥ.
Govinda has dealing. That dealing He represents exactly when He comes, when He appears on this planet, and that dealing is exhibited in Vṛndāvana-dhāma. You know Vṛndāvana-dhāma. When Kṛṣṇa comes... About forty-three crores of years' interval Kṛṣṇa comes. This estimation, these things are there. Kṛṣṇa comes in one day of Brahmā. The duration of Brahmā's day you know, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). This means forty-three lakhs of years multiplied by one thousand. That is the duration of one day of Brahmā. And similarly, the duration of his night. So Kṛṣṇa comes in one day during that duration. So when Kṛṣṇa comes, He comes here the same place, Vṛndāvana. Therefore Vṛndāvana is held in so much estimation by the devotees. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ. Ārādhya, worshipable Deity, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who appeared as the son of Mahārāja Nanda. Vrajeśa. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. Similarly, His place Vṛndāvana is also worshipable; therefore those who are Vaiṣṇavas, especially Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇava, they live in Vṛndāvana in numbers. There are hundreds and thousands of Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇava still living in Vṛndāvana because they worship the land, Vṛndāvana, as good as Kṛṣṇa because it is Kṛṣṇa's place.
Thank you very much. (break) (answering question:) It is just like without eating, if you question that how one is satisfied by eating food. A hungry man, if you give him food, he will say, "Yes, I am satisfied." There is no question of "How?" If you eat... If you are hungry, if you eat, you will feel satisfaction. It is automatic. Similarly, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you will understand. Not from outside. How? You can see how these boys and girls, they are feeling satisfaction. Similarly, if you chant also, you will feel satisfaction. There is no question of "How?" It is so, exactly (as) when you are hungry, if you eat, you will feel satisfaction. It is practical. It is stated therefore,
- rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ
- pavitraṁ paramam idam
- pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ
- su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam
- (BG 9.2)
Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. It is not theoretical. If you practice, you will see, pratyakṣāvagamam. And it is very easy to perform. So if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you will understand. Exactly like that: if you eat, then you will feel satisfaction. Simply theoretically discussing how it become, we can say to you... It will not be understood. You chant, you will understand. Practical. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam. This is the process.
Kṛṣṇa comes to attract you, that "You are seeking after happiness. Here is the happiness. Come to Me. Dance with Me." But we are misled. There is life like this, that you can dance with Kṛṣṇa, you can play with Kṛṣṇa, you can enjoy with Kṛṣṇa. So that requires training. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). These things are there. If you become trained up, then exactly after giving up this life, you can go to dance with Kṛṣṇa. That is possible. It is not a myth, mythology, as rascals think. No. You can have this life, dance with Kṛṣṇa, play with Kṛṣṇa. Simply you have to become trained up. Then, as Kṛṣṇa says,
- janma karma ca me divyam
- evaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti kaunteya
- (BG 4.9)
You can go. But don't misunderstand. Kṛṣṇa and His pastimes with the gopīs, you should understand it properly-tattvam. That is called tattvam.
Kṛṣṇa was engaged as the chariot driver of the chariot of Arjuna. And while the chariot was brought in the battlefield between the two groups of soldiers... Senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta (BG 1.21). Arjuna requested, "My dear Kṛṣṇa..." Kṛṣṇa was his friend and Kṛṣṇa was familywise related both with the Kurus and Pāṇḍavas. Kṛṣṇa's father and the Pāṇḍavas' mother, they were real brother and sister. In this way there were family relationship, and Kṛṣṇa therefore denied to take part in the actual fighting. The whole world was divided. Some of them joined this party; some of them joined that party. Just like it actually happens when there is big war. Even nowadays, all the nations, they make a group. Some of them forming were forming one group; another some of them, they formed another group. Exactly the same thing was done. Now Kṛṣṇa was the charioteer, but when the chariot was brought in front of the two soldiers' party, Arjuna became little bit disturbed that "I have to fight. On the other side they are my brothers, they are my nephews, they are my gurus, Dronācārya, and they are my grandfather, Bhīṣmadeva. So what kind of fight this is that I have to fight with my friends and relatives and family members?" So he hesitated, that "Kṛṣṇa, what kind of fight this is? They are not my enemies; they are all family members. So I am not interested in this fight." So he practically decided not to fight. And Kṛṣṇa said that "What is this nonsense? You are a military man, and you have come to fight here, and you are My friend and My relative also, and if you decide not to fight, what people will say?" This is the beginning. Then, after some arguments, Arjuna thought it wise that "Actually, I am a military man and I have come to fight a decision that we shall fight. Now what I am trying to do, to avoid this fighting? Actually it is not my business. I am deviating from my duty." Therefore... (aside:) Find out this, kārpaṇya-doṣa.
Departure Talks
We are under the control of māyā, and we can get out of it also, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me he gets out of the control of māyā." We are, therefore, preaching all over the world Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, and teaching them how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and thus get out of the clutches of māyā. We have no other desire or ambition besides this. We plainly say, "Here is God. You surrender unto Him. You always think of Him, offer your obeisances. Then your life will be successful." But the people in general, they are exactly madmen. Simply for sense gratification, they are working so hard day and night.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: But due to our imperfect senses...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is what is called māyā. Māyā has no existence, but it appears like truth. The same example: the shadow has no existence, but it also looks like my finger, and everything exactly. In the mirror you see your face exactly the same, but it is untruth. The truth is one. Truth cannot be two types of truth. What is taken as truth for the present moment, and by experience he comes to the right truth, that is called māyā.
Śyāmasundara: He says that these two types of truth are governed by two different principles: the truth of reason or the logically necessary proof, like the triangle...
Prabhupāda: This is reason, that truth is one. When we find another competitor truth, that is māyā. Truth cannot be two.
Śyāmasundara: This is what he says, that these innate truths are governed by the principle of contradiction. That is, the opposite of the truth is impossible to conceive. If something is true, the opposite of that truth is impossible to conceive.
Prabhupāda: The opposite is māyā. Opposite to truth is māyā.
Śyāmasundara: I think he says the same things, but the language is different.
Prabhupāda: There are two types of truth—what is that language? One truth is real truth, another truth is shadow truth. It is not truth, it is shadow. That is the exact language. The same example we can give: you see your face in the mirror as exactly the same, but it is shadow; therefore it is untruth. You cannot say that this reflection of your face on the mirror is another type of truth. Can you say like that? You cannot say that.
Śyāmasundara: Well, he would say that if I saw the shadow of myself in the mirror...
Prabhupāda: No. Whatever he may say, we cannot accept that there are two types of truth. That is not possible.
Śyāmasundara: He calls this type of truth conditional truth.
Prabhupāda: The conditional truth is the untruth.
Śyāmasundara: Jīva ātmā is also a person?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If not person, then why the difference? You may not agree with my opinion, but if we agree voluntarily, not that exactly what I think you think, but because you have accepted me as your guru, as superior, therefore we agree. You are individual; you may not agree. You are individual and I am individual, Kṛṣṇa is individual. That is stated, nityo nityānām. Plural number. There are many individual souls, but He is the Supreme Individual Person.
Śyāmasundara: This idea of a monad means that...
Prabhupāda: You call it by any name, but within the atom there is the force—that is Kṛṣṇa. You call it monad or something else.
Śyāmasundara: He says the lowest type of monad is in matter, material forms, and then it proceeds up through higher monads, which are souls.
Prabhupāda: So we directly say (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa, that is (indistinct) spiritual.
Śyāmasundara: Well, he sees a plan or a design also, but he sees it in...
Prabhupāda: Therefore if he sees a plan and design, then whose design? As soon as you call it design, there must be designer. As (soon as) you call a plan, there must be a planner. That he does not know.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the plan is only the workings of mechanical nature.
Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Nature is not working mechanically. There is a plan. The sun is rising exactly according to calculation. Calculation not first; first of all sun rises. But we get experience than in such-and-such season the sun rises at such-and-such time, so in that season, exactly to the minute, to the second, the sun rises. So it is neither chance nor whimsical. There is a plan. There is a plan.
Śyāmasundara: Could it not be said that that is mechanical...
Prabhupāda: Who made this mechanical? As soon as you bring the question of mechanical, there must be a brain who set up the machine. Mechanical means, just like your, what is that, telex is working. That is mechanical. That's all right. But behind this machine. there is a big brain who has made this possible. Now you are seeing at the present moment that by pushing one button you get your business done, mechanically, but who made this machine. That is important. This machine has not come out itself. There is iron and there is some, it is made of iron. So iron has not molded itself to that machine; there was a brain who has made the machine possible. Now when you are using, because you have no, if you have no knowledge... Just like in our childhood we used to think that there is a man within the gramophone box. This is childish. It is not mechanical. Everything has got a plan, design, and behind that plan and design there is a brain, big brain. What do you say, here is a scientific man?
Śyāmasundara: They are types of men.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We said varieties.
Śyāmasundara: Then what is the different species of man, separate from me; for instance, what is another species that is different than I am?
Prabhupāda: I do not know exactly the species, but when we, (break) ...means jāti, manuṣya jāti.
Śyāmasundara: I mean what is an example of different species of man. What are they, for example, several species of men?
Prabhupāda: I say that species, this word is not applicable in that sense. In that sense, according to the scientists' species. But when we say species, class you can say. Classes.
Śyāmasundara: Classes. But what, give me an example.
Prabhupāda: Again, just like we are a class—Hare Kṛṣṇa class. Our mentality is different from others.
Śyāmasundara: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we are a class.
Śyāmasundara: No. We're not talking about bodies, we're talking about the life force.
Prabhupāda: Life force means that the spirit soul has got spiritual body. That I have explained several times. Just like you have got this body. When you cut your coat, it is according to the body. Because we have hands, legs, therefore it is to be understood that this dress is made according to that real body. So originally the spirit soul has got body, so these physical elements are just like a covering, exactly to the size of the hands, legs, everything.
Śyāmasundara: He says that this life form is unpredictable, that it's always creating new things, new manifestations.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is creating new things in the material phenomena. Otherwise how he is spiritually situated, there is no such changes. The only one business is to serve Kṛṣṇa, although when we satisfy Kṛṣṇa there are many varieties. That is spiritual varieties. At the present moment, because He is lover of varieties, we are creating this material (indistinct), varieties of body, and this is subjected to threefold miseries and difficulties—birth, death, old age, disease. So, so long we are materially entrapped, our so-called (indistinct) force is creating troubles. We are becoming more and more entangled.
Prabhupāda: He must be Kṛṣṇa's representative, one who knows Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No one else.
Prabhupāda: No. If he does not know Kṛṣṇa, how he can explain?
Devotee: That independence, if he exercises that independence from now on, forever, Kṛṣṇa knows exactly how that independence is going to be used forever?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa?
Devotee: Well, the living entity has independence: now he may be liberated, then he may be conditioned, then he may be liberated, then he may be conditioned.
Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa has given you liberation. Now you misuse your liberation, you become entrapped.
Śyāmasundara: But it is that predictable?
Devotee: Is that known beforehand?
Śyāmasundara: Does Kṛṣṇa know beforehand everything, before...?
Prabhupāda: No. How Kṛṣṇa can know? You can change your mind. So Kṛṣṇa says "Surrender unto Me." If you don't surrender, then what Kṛṣṇa can do? That much independence is there.
Hayagrīva: But he pictures God as struggling.
Prabhupāda: God has nothing to struggle. He is so powerful that He has nothing to do. That is the Vedic injunction. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. The Vedic description of God is like this, He has nothing to do. That is right because just like a big man, a big leader, a king, personally he has nothing to do. He has got so many servants, secretaries, ministers, soldiers, so why he has got to do anything? So he has nothing to do. That is described in the Veda, na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. There is nothing to do actually. Therefore we see Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa picture, the Supreme Lord He is playing on his flute and enjoying. That is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), that is Vedic description, that God is always enjoying, ānandamaya. He has nothing to do. So, because na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate, he has nothing to do because, na tat ca samaḥ abhyadikaś ca dṛśyate, because nobody is greater than Him, nobody is equal to Him. Then how things are happening? Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). He has got multi-energies. The energies are acting and they are acting so nicely, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca, and the, naturally it is happening, so systematic, so nice. Just like by God's order the sun has to rise early in the morning, exactly in the time. You watch your watch and you will find exactly in time there is sunrise and there is light, there is seasonal changes, everything in order. That is Godly arrangement. So He hasn't got to struggle, He hasn't got to fight but there is fight by His different agents to kill the evil element of the world.
Prabhupāda: Authority, that is authority. You can not defy it or you can not deny it. That is authority. We are presenting our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement on this principle, that you should carry out the orders of the authority, and Kṛṣṇa or God is the Supreme authority. Whatever He is speaking, instructing to the human society, they must accept it without any wrong interpretation. That will make them happy. So those who are sane persons, they do not hesitate to accept the authority of God and they become happy simply by abiding by the orders of the authority. And those who are following exactly the instruction of the Supreme Authority, they are also authority. So that is the difference between the Supreme Lord and spiritual master. Spiritual master is servant authority, and God is the master authority. Therefore sevyā bhagavān, sevā bhagavān. Just like government officer, a servant authority, and the king is the master authority. So if one follows the instruction of the authority and teaches the people in general the same principles, then he becomes servant authority or the spiritual master.
Śyāmasundara: Well, he says it like this, that there are alternative courses of action. For every possibility there are several other possibilities. So that for instance a man can make a decision, a choice, to take different, alternative way. So he says that nature works in that way also.
Prabhupāda: No. Nature is not working that way. Nature is working very perfectly. We can see. Just after... So perfect that the astronomers, they are calculating that on such and such date there will be an eclipse, and it will be seen in India; it will not be seen in Europe; and exactly at this time the eclipse will begin. So how they are calculating unless there is a rigid law? How it is possible? They are calculating mathematically. The general matter that two plus two is always four, not that by accident it becomes five. That is not possible. So the nature's law is working in that way. Otherwise how one year before you can calculate this solar eclipse and lunar eclipse so rightly? And they can say that from this country it will be seen, and from this country it will be not seen. That means the position of the sun, moon and everything, of the latitude and longitude, everything is so nicely done that you can make calculations very perfectly. How you can say accident? There is no accident.
Prabhupāda: The man or not man, there are living beings, varieties; we simply do not see the man as a living being. We see there are varieties of living beings, beginning from water up to the higher planetary system. There are different forms of living being, we have several times repeated. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, like that, nine millions, ah, nine hundred thousands forms of body within the water; then plants, trees, creepers, insects. So all of them are living beings. God is concerned with all of them. Why man is created? Every one of us in different form we are created. Or exactly not created; we are part and parcel of God. In one word God is the father of all living entities. So the simple relationship is that God is maintainer, we are maintained. This is our relationship. In the material world, as a man may have more than one wife, so similarly God has two prakṛtis, or subordinate energies—material and spiritual. So in the material world the material nature is the mother, God is the father, and varieties of living entities, they are all maintained by the father, supreme father. This is the conception of universal brotherhood. And if we understand our relationship with God as father and son... There are so many sons. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu. All different forms of life, the mother is material nature, and God says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "And I am the seed-giving father." So that relationship should be known, and if we act according to that relationship, there will be actual peace and prosperity and advancement of all knowledge. That is wanted.
Hayagrīva: James believes that the existence of many religions in the world is not regrettable but is necessary to the existence of different types of men. He says, "All men have, should have... Should all men have the same religion? Ought they to approve the same fruits and follow the same leadings? Are they so like in their inner needs that exactly the same religious incentives are required? Or are different functions allotted to different types of men, so that some may really be the better for a religion of consolation and reassurance whilst others are better for one of terror and reproof?" And he goes on to conclude that he thinks that difference...
Prabhupāda: This is religion. Therefore I was talking in this morning that accept God as the supreme father and the material nature is the mother and we living entities, in 8,400,000 forms, we are all sons of God. So everyone has got the right to live at the cost of the father. The father is the maintainer—that is natural—and we are maintained. So every living being should be satisfied in the condition given by God. Man should live in his own condition, the animal also should live in his own condition. Why the man should encroach upon the rights, living right of other living entities like the animals? No. Nobody should encroach upon other's right. Everyone is son of God. Let him be maintained by the orders of God. That is ideal life, family life. All living entities are the members of the same family. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says that kṛṣṇera saṁsāra kara chāḍi' anācāra: just live in the family of Kṛṣṇa without violating the rules and regulation. Then it is family life. Or without violating the orders of God. Just like in the family the father is the chief man, and the sons can live very happily by being obedient to the father. There is no trouble; father will give all supplies and necessities if we remain obedient to the father, and all the brothers can live peacefully. A very common example. But they will not do that. They will encroach upon others' jurisdiction. That is the cause of disturbance: obeying..., disobeying the orders of God.
Śyāmasundara: Today we are discussing German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. His philosophy is exactly the opposite of Hegel's rational, optimistic world order. His philosophy is often referred to as the philosophy of pessimism. And actually, he was a neurotic bachelor who lived alone with his dog, and he was known for his sexual indulgence and scandalous behavior.
Prabhupāda: And he was a philosopher?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. The philosophy of pessimism. He says that reality is...
Prabhupāda: So why was he fond of dog? Pessimism? He found some value in dog?
Śyāmasundara: He says that reality is blind and irrational and capricious, or whimsical, and that actually life is an evil situation.
Prabhupāda: So how he is to establish his philosophy if everything is whimsical, irrational? How he will convince others if he is irrational and irresponsible? How he will make progress in his philosophical proposition?
Śyāmasundara: He figures his...
Prabhupāda: Man is called a rational animal. Although animal, it is rational. So how his irrational philosophy will be accepted by a rational animal?
Śyāmasundara: He doesn't believe in rationality at all. Everything is..., no matter how hard we try to be rational, our plans are always upset. There is always some flaw to our reasoning.
Prabhupāda: No. The nature is... Sometimes a child takes this, asks his father: "What is this, Father? What is this?" "The case of a spectacle." Therefore he gets the knowledge. That is nature.
Śyāmasundara: But if there was no-one...
Prabhupāda: But if the child will speculate, well then (indistinct) speculate?
Śyāmasundara: Well this isn't a philosophy for children exactly. It's supposedly for very intelligent men.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is following the principle, he's no better than a children. He's a child. This man is no better than a child, because he is speculating something important. He wants to study this leaf without any other sense. Then he is a child.
Śyāmasundara: But the nature of that leaf...
Prabhupāda: Whatever nature is already there. Nature of the leaf is already there, but you cannot understand it by speculating.
Śyāmasundara: We can't understand that it's green and that it grows?
Prabhupāda: Well, simply understanding green is not complete study of the leaf. The main questions are why it is green? Why the other leaf is yellow? That is real enquiry. Why this flower is red and that flower is white? And why the leaf is green? This is the real enquiry, "Why?"
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Psychoanalysis, psychotherapy.
Devotee: Actually the idea is that a child is sometimes unable to adjust to certain very extremes. It is called trauma, very shocking, and the child can't understand; he is simply very much stunned. So through his life he is affected by that. He can't remember exactly what it is, because he wants to forget it, it is so painful, but it manifests in some aberrant symptom later on, as he is afraid when the windows are closed. But by finding out what is the root of his fear,... (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...I become afraid. Just like in that hospital, it was so nice, everything was so nice, but because I was thinking, "Oh, I cannot go out, I cannot walk," it was giving me too much trouble—that very thought that I cannot go out.
Devotee: (indistinct) sometimes they can't trace out the history of a particular case. The idea is that if they can find out from this person remembering back when they were young that he had been locked in a room, then (indistinct) the person was able to understand the significance of that incident, that it was really very small. Then it loses its importance in his life. He has been unable to resolve it because he has repressed it.
Prabhupāda: But I don't think when a man's brain is already deranged he can be rectified by finding out the cause.
Śyāmasundara: But he would, for instance, say that our means..., aware of understanding Kṛṣṇa as a supreme father, as our cause and so on, is an archetypal tendency that is shared by all human entities, that they have the same tendency to react in that way, to understand someone as their father or as their cause. And they will represent Him in different ways but always..., always similar.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We see that. Exactly similar. Rather, this father is (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the supreme father. It is similar. As father has many sons, similarly Kṛṣṇa has many sons. You can say it is similar. As sons are born, children are born of father, similarly, we are born of Kṛṣṇa. It is similar.
Śyāmasundara: For instance, in the dream life, our dream life, in the dream life of savages or anyone else on this planet, certain common occurrences take place in the dream. Sometimes we feel we are flying in dreams, or sometimes we feel that there's a disruption coming from below, or certain symbols are there, common to all men. He calls these archetypes or the collective unconscious. All human beings share these propensities.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Universally one.
Prabhupāda: Mm. We have no objection in that way.
Hayagrīva: Jung laments the fact that such a nonmaterialistic faith does not presently exist in the West. He writes, "Not only does the West lack a uniform faith that could block the progress of a fanatical ideology"—that is Marxism—"but as the father of Marxist philosophy," because Marx was a Westerner, "it makes use of exactly the same spiritual," so-called spiritual, "assumptions, the same arguments and aims." So he feels that man is desperately in need of a religion that has immediate meaning, and he feels that Christianity is no longer effective in combating this.
Prabhupāda: He has predicted very nice. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, which is above everything, either Christianism or Marxism or capitalism or anything. It is based on Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So actually it is a fact. Kṛṣṇa says that if you adopt this principle of life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will remain above all sinful reaction of life and make progress spiritually, gradually.
Devotee: He isn't saying how we should control people. He is simply putting forth the idea that people should be controlled. He doesn't say... In fact, he admits that he doesn't know what the aim or goal is, or how exactly we should control it. He is simply putting forth that according to the Vedic system, the correct thesis that man can be controlled.
Prabhupāda: Man is already controlled, already controlled. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that you are already under the dangerous laws, under the control of the stringent laws of material nature. And you are feeling inconvenienced, just like the threefold miserable condition. (indistinct-greeting guests) So there is no doubt about it. We are controlled. Nobody can say "I am free." We are controlled. When we are being controlled, we are feeling some inconvenience. So we are advising that you be under the control of Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: In the future it will be better.
Prabhupāda: So, he is doing (indistinct) more than the (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: Yes, exactly. So his is a religion also. His philosophy is like a religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) he condemns.
Prabhupāda: Religion means (indistinct) he cannot give up, that is religion.
Śyāmasundara: He thinks everything can be changed, that nothing is permanent.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) our proposition, religion means dharma, the (indistinct) which you cannot give up. (indistinct) Just like I am standing on this floor. It is not possible to stand without this floor. I cannot say that I can stand without floor.
Śyāmasundara: He said that...
Prabhupāda: Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. That is the Vedic injunction, that people are searching after knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, so when one understands the Absolute Truth, then he understands everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. And Bhāgavata says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: (SB 7.5.31) "They are trying to approach the objective, but they do not know the objective is Viṣṇu." Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ: "They are simply trying to adjust by so many revolutions, these material things." But he has no knowledge that he is spiritual being. Unless he goes back to the spiritual world and associates with the supreme spirit, God, there is no question of happiness. Exactly, if you have taken a fish from the water, there is no question of happiness of this fish unless it is again thrown into the water. So we have come... We are part and parcel of the supreme spirit. We have come from the spiritual world with the mentality of enjoying this material world. So unless we divert, reverse ourself to that spiritual conclusion, we understand our spiritual position and go back to home, we go to back... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramam (BG 15.6). When you come to this position, that is happiness. Otherwise you go on theorizing, but one revolution will be... That is the world. "Yielding place to new. Old order changes, yielding place to new." This is revolution. So this will go on. What he is thinking now new, it will be old after some days, and another new thing will come, will be changed. So this is the order. "Old order changes, yielding place to new." Or, in other words, "History repeats itself."
Prabhupāda: Accidental... Just like a child takes birth, is it accidental? Beginning from the child, so it is not accidental. That there is a father-mother unity, and then, when the child is born, then how you can say accidental? Nothing is accidental.
Hayagrīva: He felt that man..., it is only man who gives reality to God, or, he said, "the gods."
Prabhupāda: Reality must be there. That we... Just like Mr. Marx, he certainly did not like to die, but he was forced to die. Why it takes place unless there is some superior force? We do not wish to have some accident but there is accident; so how you can check it? So in this way, the conception of God, there is always some superior, and there are many other things, common sense, we discuss daily that the, as the nature, things are going on so nicely, they are not accidentally. There are so many planets in the sky. Accidentally they are not colliding but they are remaining in their position. The sun is rising in due course of time, in the morning exactly in time. So there is nothing accidental. And because things are going on very systematically, so there must be some brain behind it, and that supreme brain is God. How you can deny it?
Hayagrīva: Marx felt that true philosophy would say, "In simple truth I bear hate for any and every God is its own avowal, its own judgment against all heavenly and earthly gods who do not acknowledge human self-consciousness as the supreme divinity. There must be no other on a level with it."
Śyāmasundara: So this idea that no progress is made in any..., except through conflict.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: How is that exactly?
Prabhupāda: This is conflict. Conflict means if I don't agree with you and if you do not agree with me, that is conflict.
Śyāmasundara: So some progress is made from that conflict?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the two can(?) fight or conflict and one judgement giver.
Śyāmasundara: And this is progress.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this morning I was explaining that your statement should be according to the standard process, vidhi-mārga. So sādhu-śāstra-guru, three authorities: saintly persons, scripture, and spiritual master. So all of them should be, should agree. There is a con... Just like two litigants, they go to the court and the judges give judgement. Similarly, whenever there is conflict, to come to a conclusion, we must refer to sādhu, śāstra, and guru. Then we get the right judgement.
Śyāmasundara: So there is even spiritual space?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Otherwise, how there is spiritual world? The ingredient is different. Otherwise, they're exactly the same. Just like you create plastic tree like this. The plastic tree and this tree, ingredients are the same. The same, that earth, water, air. What is this plastic? It is also a kind of earth. Is it not? You mix with water and put a shape and heat it, it becomes glass and this and that, so many things. Similarly, the whole material creation is also combination and permutation... What is called?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Of these five elements. Especially earth, water and fire. Just like this brick What is this brick? Earth, water, mix and put it into fire. It is brick.
Śyāmasundara: (aside:) Should I turn it off? (?)
Prabhupāda: And you crush this brick, it becomes mortar. And mix with lime and water. Then it becomes cementing plaster, and put the bricks after bricks with that cement and it becomes house. So ultimately earth, water, and fire. Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayam, exchange of earth, water, and fire.
Śyāmasundara: So the third and fourth categories he sees that relates to everything are relations and order. Everything relates to everything else and there is an order in everything. Everything is part of an order, a grand order.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Prakṛti, there is order. Just like the sun is rising exactly in time. It is setting exactly in time. The sea waves, they are forbidden, "Not to come beyond this limit." Big, big waves are always coming, "Ohn, ohn!" but not beyond this beach (reach?). So there is order. Everything there is order.
Śyāmasundara: Even the mind occupies space and transpires in time. Mind occupies space and works in time. Is that also a fact?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are occupying space. That's a fact.
Śyāmasundara: The mind also occupies space?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am occupying space, mind is within me. Why not? Mind occupying space, it can be practically experienced. The mind runs immediately, thousand miles away.
Śyāmasundara: But is that thousand miles away in me or does my mind actually travel there.
Prabhupāda: Travels.
Śyāmasundara: Oh. So it occupies space.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless... Suppose... You don't exactly remember now. The mind is going. As soon as reaches, then you can remember. It takes a second, but still, it occupies...
Śyāmasundara: So the mind leaves this body and goes somewhere.
Prabhupāda: Not leave. It is just like a suit (shoot?).
Śyāmasundara: Oh, it extends.
Prabhupāda: Extends.
Śyāmasundara: He says that whatever exists is subject to...
Prabhupāda: At night also, the body also extends and again comes... You forget this body; you are dreaming some body, some other feature of the body. So sometimes you take that body very important.
Hayagrīva: "Imperfections..., there will always be imperfections like smoke and fire," something like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that, uh, He says that everything has got some defect, material. Even the fire, so powerful, so fire has also some defect: the smoke. So apart from that imperfection, if we execute our prescribed duties exactly in the way as it is enjoined in the śāstra, that even there is some defect, still we can get perfection. Just like Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving chance, everyone, to become perfect by his own work. It doesn't matter brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or what means according to Vedic civilization, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So brāhmaṇa is giving knowledge, kṣatriya is giving protection, vaiśya is giving food, and śūdra is general help to everyone. So if the whole thing is done under the direction of the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya executes the orders of the brāhmaṇa, and the vaiśyas supply food—because food is required, that is materially required—then everything is perfect. (break) (aside with Hari-śauri regarding tape recorder)
Hayagrīva: All right, this is... Later in The Republic, in the allegory of the cave, we mentioned before, Socrates says, "In the world of knowledge, the last thing to be perceived, and only with great difficulty, is the essential form of goodness. Once it is perceived, the conclusion must follow that for all things, this is the cause of whatever is right and good. In the visible world it gives birth to light and to the Lord of light while it is itself sovereign in the intelligible world and the parent of the intelligible world and the parent of intelligence and truth. Without having had a vision of this Form," he uses capital "F," Form, "no one can act with wisdom either in his own life or in matters of state." And here, he, Socrates mentions form but he doesn't mention personality. He mentions the form of goodness, but through intellection, or jñāna, how is it possible to perceive the form of God or the form of goodness? What could he possibly mean by...
Prabhupāda: That is from Vedic same. As soon as there is instruction there is form. As Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction, He is always saying "I," "you," like that, it is personal. He says Arjuna, "You," and He says Himself, "I." So Arjuna is also form and Kṛṣṇa is also form, and Kṛṣṇa also says that "Both you, Me, and all these living entities, kings and soldiers who are assembled here, they existed in the past, they are existing now, and they will continue to exist." So you can understand that "In the present I am in form, so I existed in the past in form and I shall continue to exist in the future as form. So where is formless?" From my present position I can understand my past and future. So Kṛṣṇa says that we existed in the past. So we existing now, now I mean to say, continuing. He never said that "In the past we were formless; now we have got form." This is not stated there. Rather, He condemns, that avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannam manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24): "In the past I was formless, impersonal, and now I am a person," that is Māyāvādī thought, that when God takes the form, He takes the form of māyā. So they have been condemned as abuddhayaḥ, no intelligence. Avyaktaṁ vyaktiṁ āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24). Those who have less intelligence, they think like that, that "God was formerly formless, now He is talking in form, that means He has accepted the body of māyā." This is called Māyāvāda philosophy.
Hayagrīva: Concerning the soul, Descartes concludes that...
Prabhupāda: Now in this connection, regarding the soul, if he has received the knowledge of soul from God, therefore at that time there is no chance of he is thinking. If, as soon as he thinks in his own way, then there may be mistakes, because he is imperfect, finite. But when Kṛṣṇa says directly that "Within this body the soul is there," so if we accept God's instruction, then immediately we understand that the soul is different from this body. Exactly just like if somebody inquires, "Where is Prabhupāda?" If somebody says that "He is in this room," it does not mean this room is Prabhupāda; Prabhupāda is within this room. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that this, the owner of the body, the soul, is within this body. So immediately the false impression that "I am this body," the fool's conclusion, immediately it is eradicated. The light is there, but he will not accept. He wants to continue to live as a fool and speculate and waste time and con..., give conclusion in so many ways, so many rascal jugglery, "The living force is like this, like that, like that." But Kṛṣṇa gives instruction immediately that the living force, soul, is within this body; he is not this body. And He gives complete instruction on this at... He says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "This soul is never killed even the body is killed." This is knowledge. In spite of this knowledge, if somebody sticks to his foolish theories, then he remains animal.
Hari-śauri: "Śrīmatī Kuntī said: O Kṛṣṇa, I offer my obeisances unto You because You are the original personality and are unaffected by the qualities of the material world. You are existing both within and without everything, yet You are invisible to all. Being beyond the range of limited sense perception, the eternally irreproachable factor covered by the curtain of deluding energy, You are invisible to the foolish observer, exactly as an actor dressed as a player is not recognized. You Yourself descend to propagate the transcen..."
Prabhupāda: That is very good example. His father is playing on the stage, and the son is seeing, and another, another friend is seeing, saying, "Do you see your father?" Then "Where is my father?" He, he, he does not recognize his father. Very good example.
Hari-śauri: Then, uh, third verse, "You Yourself descend to propagate the transcendental science of devotional service unto the hearts of the advanced transcendentalists and mental speculators, who are purified by being able to discriminate between matter and spirit."
Prabhupāda: Advanced transcendentalists, they can understand. Not these speculators with limited sense perception.
| Page Title: | Exactly (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=95, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 95 |