Prabhupāda: Another thing, that shopping is so much troublesome.
Śyāmasundara: Telephone.
Prabhupāda: Who is calling? (indistinct). (indistinct) has said that...
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) these people were descendents of warrior class, kṣatriya class, so they are naturally inclined to those things, meat-eating.
Prabhupāda: No, the warrior class are not like that, kṣatriya. Not that they are addicted. These are caṇḍālas. They are called caṇḍālas. Caṇḍālas, the dog eaters, the hog-eaters. In India they are sweeper class. Mlecchas (?). (indistinct). She comes from that family. Now (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: Anyway, all property, all money, capital, communications, transport everything should be brought into central, centralize, centralized in the hands of the state.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So, what profit will be (indistinct), the member in the central, they will exploit, just like Krushchev was doing, and he was (indistinct). So, our diagnosis is that tendency is there. Unless you reform that tendency, these things will be bogus. Now Russia, just according to Marx theory, they are doing that, but (indistinct) utilize it. How you shall stop this mentality? What is that program?
Śyāmasundara: Their program is first you change the social conditions then the mentality will change.
Prabhupāda:Impossible. It will simply react and there will be another revolution.
Śyāmasundara: So first you have to change the mentality and then the social structure will change.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless I am trained up to think that I do not possess anything, everything belongs to the State... But it is very difficult to change. Simply nonsense.
Śyāmasundara: But they think like that.
Prabhupāda: They think but (indistinct) utopian, that is another thing. But, so...
Śyāmasundara: They're all... Yes, this is an example. There was one woman, who was in charge of the, a maid in that hotel. Although she must have known from childhood that that hotel belongs to the state, the foodstuff belongs to the state, everything belongs to the state, still she had proprietorship, false proprietorship over her kitchen, that kitchen. She would not allow us into that kitchen.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Śyāmasundara: Even though it was not hers—we had every right to use it as much as her, she would not allow it.
Prabhupāda: Just see. In Russia. Yes. In the hotel. And there were some quarrels.
Śyāmasundara: Quarrels. She wanted the rights to that stove.
Prabhupāda: So how you can change it? Simply theorizing will not serve(?).
Devotee: In Russia when they find someone who is deviating like that they send them to Siberia. So their process of checking them is to punish them.
Prabhupāda: But there... Everything is going on simply on threatening. You see there is no heart to heart cooperation(?). Therefore everyone we saw, they were morose.
Śyāmasundara: Slogans. They simply speak slogans. Propaganda.
Prabhupāda: There is no cooperation. In this way, finally the people will non-cooperate and there will be revolution. Just like Gandhi's noncooperation. That stage will come. Nobody will cooperate with them. So these are foolish theories. It has no practical value.
Śyāmasundara: So their idea about... It says that all events are seen as physical reactions aimed at satisfying economic and material needs of mankind. In other words everything that happens historically is seen as a result of economic and material needs required.
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. I have already explained. Because I want to make profit, you want to make profit, so as soon as there will be check in my profit-making or your profit-making, then we shall fight. The reason is that I want to make profit, you want to make profit, nobody is prepared to sacrifice profit. So as soon as our interests clash there is fight.
Śyāmasundara: So the sad truth is that the whole world is revolving on the principle of economic desire.
Prabhupāda: Yes economic desire. Profit, that is stated in the śāstras, (indistinct) pratiṣṭhā. (indistinct) means profit. (indistinct) means... Why I want profit? Because if I have got money, then people will adore me (and) say (to me), "You are God. You are everything." (indistinct) Give me some (indistinct). Just like the beggars, (indistinct) their blessing, you become king, you will be so on and so on and so on, you are so great. In this way he thinks, "Oh I am great. All right, there." He becomes immediately sophisticated, "Oh I am so great. All right, there." This is there. He flatters.
Śyāmasundara: He says that man's nature is the result of historical forces. Therefore ideas change according to material conditions. In other words...
Prabhupāda: This ideas cannot change, these basic ideas, that I want some property, I want some adoration and I want some position. This will never change. These rascals, they do not know the basic principles of human psychology.