Education (Conversations 1973)

Expressions researched:
"coeducation" |"education" |"educational" |"educationally" |"educations" |"educative"

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Āsuri- bhāva. Why he can remain so? Because āsuri-bhāva, there is no God. That is their determination. There is no God. Therefore their merit is being misused, they have become the lowest of the mankind. They have become the Fool No. 1 and all that so-called education, academics, knowledge has been taken away by māyā. This is... So we test only whether he's a devotee of God. If he's not a devotee of God then we take either of these: he must be the rascal, or lowest of the mankind, or simply using the merit for sinful activities, or his knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Immediately, we have no difficulty to understand what class of man he is. The test is whether he has got any sense of understanding God. If not then he comes to this group. It is not very difficult to study man, what he is. We have got the formula in the Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi)

Devotee: Your explanation you've just given was so clear, Prabhupāda. We can easily see. It's so clear.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Yes, this is the explanation. There is no second explanation. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the only explanation. What explanation can you... Who can give another explanation? There is no second explanation.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Any department of knowledge at the present moment, they're simply aiming at giving some artificial comfort to this body. But these rascals, they do not care to know that however I keep this body comfortably, I'll have to give it up. And after giving up this body, what is my next position, they do not know. They do not know. This is darkness. This is darkness. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to give enlightenment to the people at large, to understand the values of life. Not to live like animals, eating, sleeping, sex life and dying. This is animal life. This is the best humanitarian welfare activities: to make people understand scientifically what he is, what is God, what is our relationship with God. So the Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of this science. So this should be presented very scientifically. One who knows perfectly well about this Bhagavad-gītā. These are the (indistinct) crucial point. That one... Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). There's so many very touch(?) point. If they are not very, explained nicely people will remain in darkness.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So then they must know what is karma-phala. This is a fact. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). But they are..., do not know how to execute karma. They're doing all kinds of sinful activities. So, suppose after this body, on account of my sinful activities, I am going to become a rat or cat or snake or a tree, then what is the use of my so much, how you'd say, jumping over nationalism and this ism and that. If by nature I am going to accept next life the body of a cat and dog, or a tree, then what is the meaning of my, this so-called nationality at the present moment? Is it not the duty of the guardians who are taking care of the people or their son, to educate human being in such a way that they can get better body? What is that education? You are darkness, nobody knows what kind of body he's going to accept next life.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Just like there is next life, a boy is educated to have good education so that in the next life—means when he's young man—he will be happy. He's preparing for the next life. The boy is being educated. That means he's preparing for the next youthful life. Youthful life is meant for preparation for the next old age life. Then what we are preparing now for the next body? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

bhutāni yānti bhūtejyā

yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām

(BG 9.25)

So where is that education?

Scholar: I think it's also according to the society. First we have to learn and after we come to the stage of sannyāsī, only then we are...

Prabhupāda: It is no question of sannyāsa, sannyāsa you take or not take, you must be in knowledge what is your next life.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Do you mean to say we shall keep ourself in darkness about our next life? Is that your philosophy?

Scholar: Well I think we have to start from... We give a child educations and then gṛhastha, and vānaprastha,...

Prabhupāda: That is all right, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, that is a, different stages. But the real education is that you have to die. You have to accept another body. What kind of body you are going to accept? If you do not know that what is this meaning of gṛhastha, and vānaprastha, and sannyāsa? It is all rascal. If you do not... You miss this real point, then what is the meaning of this? There's no meaning. Simply by dressing in white cloth one becomes gṛhastha? And simply by dressing one, in this saffron cloth, he becomes sannyāsī? By changing dress he becomes everything? He must know, that what is the aim of life. Everyone should know what is the ultimate of life.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: We believe in the stage of life so we prepare from childhood and after ...

Prabhupāda: Yes, not only we, but everyone should prepare from the childhood. This is... This Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for a particular class of men. It is meant for the human society. So this education should be spread all over the world to save them from pitfalls of a life of darkness. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We do not mean that the Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the Hindus, or for the Indians, or for the Indonesians. No, no, it is meant for everyone. They should know the science.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: What's this? Can't you see? There are many Christians, many...

Scholar: Do they have to be Hindus first?

Prabhupāda: Well, why you are stressing to become Hindu and Christian? It is that education for understanding the values of life.

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of Hindu, Muslim. Any intelligent man will take it. Suppose if you want to be a great mathematician does it mean that you must be a Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan?

Scholar: But by using threads, attributes of Hindu religion...

Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama. The human society must be divided.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: And they're acting actually as brāhmaṇa. There are many Mohammedans also. You came from Mohammedan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science. So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It does not say that this kind of body, dehāntaram, another body. Not..., it is up to you to select what kind of body I am going to accept. I am going to become a cat or dog or a demigod or a big man or a... They do not know yet. This science is unknown to the whole world. We are trying to push on this scientific movement. This is our position.

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, thank you (devotees laugh). Yes. In that auspicious occasion we are connected. Before that, in 1920, ah 22, when I was manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory, young man, and I was nationalist, Congress party. I was a devotee of Mahatma Gandhi and C.R. Dāsa. At that time...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When I was (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That was the beginning of our...

Prabhupāda: No, I was in connection with Congress (?) in 1917.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Seventeen.

Prabhupāda: Yes, 17, when Anivesan (?) became the Congress president, yes. Then I became serious in 1920, and I gave up my education. So one of my friends, that friend he is also now, perhaps you know Mahārāja, that Naren Mullik?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also says that the modern education makes men just like an ass.

Prabhupāda: That is, I am explaining. (pause) Just like this, what is called, anthropology?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Astrology?

Prabhupāda: Darwin's...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dar, Darwin? Oh, naturalists.

Prabhupāda: No, No. There are...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, archaeologists?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Anthropology. There's a department...

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: They worship them.

Prabhupāda: Worship. That is their advancement of... After taking so much university education, they have learned how to love hogs. Just see the fun. (pause) They are living within the sand. How these rascals are speaking that because in the moon planet there is sand only there is no living entity. How we can believe? We see practically. They do not go to the garden. They live within the sand. How they are living? (pause—break) ...and they do some acrobatic feats, like that. Still they're in no condition.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're smart.

Prabhupāda: So that smartness you haven't got. Even of a small bird. And still you are proud of advancement. The vulture goes up and he can see everything but when you go up, aeroplane, up you cannot see where is your home. Is it not? They can find out, four miles, five miles away, where is a corpse. Immediately they flock.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Yes. In Calcutta, there are two colleges, Presidency College and Scottish Churches College. All respectable families, son will go there, Scottish Churches College, Presidency College.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They started almost at the same time?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is very old. Presidency College is government, and Scottish Churches College, by the Scottish Church missionaries. There was one priest, Duff, his name was Duff. He started in Srirampur, a small educational institute, Duff Institute. He was a Scotsman. Later on, all the Scottish missionaries combined together and they started this Scottish Churches College.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They just argue without any background.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just for argument...

Prabhupāda: That means the so-called education making them all rascals and fools. That's all. The education has no value. We therefore say that you close all these universities. You are simply producing rascals and fools. That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Asses.

Prabhupāda: Asses, mūḍhāḥ. Unless one comes to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we don't give any value to so-called education, advancement of knowledge. We don't give any value. Our only formula is harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no value. Immediately reject him. He has no value of his life. We are advocating Kṛṣṇa consciousness not on sentiment, on the value of life. That these men are being carried away by whims without any value of life. Let us save them. That is our mission. Just like a, a foolish person is going in, on the ocean. So it is: "Oh, why you are going that way? Where you are going? You are a madman." This is the duty.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Similarly these rascals are going to hell and we are trying to save them. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They like to do things in future.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. We say it is nonsense. In future, it is all right. You say, "In future...", but where is your method for future prosperity? That I am talking... If a child is getting proper education, then we can say that he has got a good future. But if the child is wrongly directed, then where is his future? A patient who has gone to the physician and undergoing treatment, he can expect in future he will be cured. But if he's lying down on the bed, and does not know who is physician, then where is his future? He has no future. So all these leaders, they're rascals, and who are following these rascals, where is his future? He has no future. They're all rascals. Anyone accepting: "This rascal is a great scientist." So his future is doomed.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thinking is a natural process.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thinking is a natural...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got mind. You have got mind. Therefore you must think. But that thinking... Why there is psychology science? What do you think? Why do you go to school, college to learn psychology? To learn how to think. How thinking process is going on. There is education required, how to think correctly.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Life started from life. It cannot start from matter.

Prabhupāda: No. If you can establish this theory, you will get also Nobel Prize. Yes, try for... Yes, do it. And all these rascals will be defeated. Do that. Their so-called theory that life has come out of matter... Do this by your education. Yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. Here is life, Kṛṣṇa. Here begins everything. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa says. Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is there. Simply we have to present it scientifically. That's all. So you were the only person to protest against him in the meeting?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Nobody asked any questions.

Brahmānanda.: Blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Anyway he has admitted, "I do not know." That is sufficient defeat for him. But they are shameless. In spite of being defeated, they won't admit that "I am defeated." Not gentlemen. Formerly between two learned scholars there will be argument. If one is defeated... Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. As soon as he became defeated, he became His disciple. That's all. That was the system.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is not guaranteed also.

Prabhupāda: That is also not guaranteed. Why I am taking so much trouble? They are so foolish persons. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jīvake karaye gādhā. This so-called scientific education means people become more attracted with this temporary world and he works very hard, just like an ass. Ass, the example of ass is because the ass does not know what is his interest, but works very hard. Therefore ass example is given. Ass, he carries the washerman's cloth, tons, but not a single cloth belongs to him. He is naked. And still he is working. He does not know, "Why I am working for the washerman, carrying so much load?" That sense he hasn't got. He thinks that "Washerman gives me to eat some grasses." Although grasses are all over. That is ass. That is ass. So these scientific research workers, they are asses. He does not know that "I shall live for thirty years. So what is the use of my research work?" But intelligent man will say, "Let me utilize this thirty years to prepare for my next life." That is intelligence. But they. But they have no idea of the next life.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, to work foolishly. (break) 6:37. Is that all right? What is your time?

Brahmānanda: 6:34.

Prabhupāda: Oh, little slow.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I am writing a letter to Rāmānanda Prabhu...

Prabhupāda: Yes, come and join. Let us do some service to Kṛṣṇa. What is the value of our education? Earning money, that also ordinary porter also... They are also earning more than that, than scientists, these men?

Brahmānanda: Oh yeah.

Prabhupāda: What do they charge per day?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are getting much more than the normal scientist because manual labor is very expensive here.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: The brick-layers get a hundred dollars a day.

Prabhupāda: Just see. So why don't you become a brick layer instead of scientist? (laughter) You get more money. Dr. Bose, he called me... I told you. He asked me, "What you are doing?" "Now, I am going to the share market." So he immediately said, "Then what is the value of your education if you are going to the share market like the Marwaris who are illiterate?" Share market means to have some tricks how to sell and purchase shares. That by practicing anyone can do. It is not very difficult. (break) ... life from life. Make vigorous propaganda. Let them come to argument, scientific discussion. (pause) The man and woman in your country, they have got equal rights. Why not here? (laughter) In the lavatory? Why this discrimination, "woman," "man," why? Equal rights, must be equal rights. (pause) What is the basic philosophy for contraceptive action? Why do they prefer contraceptive method?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Their point being to reduce the population, not to increase.

Prabhupāda: But population is reducing, it is increasing. You take the statistics, the world population is increasing, it is not decreasing.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is none in the universities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is the position of your education. There is no knowledge, and you are simply advertising, "Advancement of knowledge, university, PhD's, Nobel Prize holder." But they are all rascals. Fools' paradise. It is called, fools' paradise.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If the scientists know that we are not this body, then definitely the whole outlook will be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want to do.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Everyone who follows Vedic injunctions, they're happy.

Devotee (1): You ask me.

Krishna Tiwari: You ask me. I'm very happy.

Prabhupāda: But you are happy with imperfect knowledge.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, no. (laughing) Again it's the same thing.

Prabhupāda: You said, you said... No. You are happy with your imperfect education of an animal.

Krishna Tiwari: Everybody is.

Prabhupāda: Imperfect knowledge and happiness.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You cannot purchase Kṛṣṇa consciousness—you can have money—that you have to cultivate.

Revatīnandana: Yeah, when Mr. Birla is getting old then he has to come to us, if he has any sense.

Prabhupāda: No they say, they simply give primary education (indistinct) they can read, that's all. And (indistinct). They don't send because everyone knows that sending boys to the school means spoil them. That's all. I have seen intelligent boys, they go to school and he is spoiled. Yes, spoiled. He learns how to smoke, how to have sex, how to talk nonsense, how to use knife, how to fight, these things. At least at the present moment. Yes. Simply slaughterhouse, this so-called school is called slaughterhouse. Yes, slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, our Society is association. If we keep good association, then we don't touch the darkness. What is that association? There is a song, sat-saṅga cari goinu asate vilāsa teka name lagi loma karma bandha phāṅsa.(?) Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means association with the devotees. That is called sat-saṅga. So the, one poet, Vaiṣṇava poet, is regretting that "I did not keep association with the devotees, and I wanted to enjoy life with the nondevotees. Therefore I'm being entangled in the fruitive activities." Karma bandha phāṅsa. Entanglement. Here in this material world we act, and the result is there. Again we enjoy the result and act, again another result. We act, another result, another result. Because as soon as you act, there will be some result, good or bad. So, good or bad, by good result we get good birth, good money, good bodily features, good education—these are the effects of good work. And the effects of bad work, low-grade family, abominable, ugly bodily features, no education, no money, poor—these are the two effects of material good and bad work. But those who are trying to be transcendental both to the good and bad work, devotees, they are perfect. Because in this material world either you do good work or bad work, you have to suffer the material condition. Just like you are, suppose you are Englishman, you are well situated. But you can not avoid the influence of the weather.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You'll create your body by your present activities, and nature will simply award you that body. So, so long we have got this material body, the four kinds of miserable conditions, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, you have to suffer. Therefore, this human life should be utilized in such a way that we do not become subject to these four tribulations, birth, death, old age and disease. That is perfection. But people are not given that chance, the modern education, modern civilization. They've no knowledge; they do not know that there is life after death, although it is a simple fact. Just like in our present existence we have got past, present and future. Just like you are young man, you have your past. You are a child, or a boy, now that is past. Present, you are young man, and in future you are expecting to become old man.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like in this life we collect some money, keep in the bank balance so that in future, old age, I may not be in difficulty. Similarly, what a human being should do for his future life? That he does not know, although past, present, future is there. So this is foolishness. He doesn't care for the future. So one who is foolish, without any knowledge of the future, whatever he's doing is defeated—in ignorance, because it is ignorance. Just like a boy does not take education, does not think of future. That is not very good. We must be prepared for the future, his next life. Yes, where is that civilization? Where is that education, that people are thinking for future life? Is there any educational system at the present moment? So everything is being defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Abodha-jāta, these rascal fools, born foolish. He does not inquire about the self-realization, so whatever he is doing, it is all defeat, he is spoiling his time, because he does not know. Ātma-tattvam, the science of self-realization.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is world religion.

Guest (2): But what inside... (showing pamphlet or something) They say religion and moral education books, and all this... So actually, they should take our permission also. So this will sell our books. Our organization, not theirs, controlling the people.

Prabhupāda: No, they are taking.

Guest (2): Religious people are recognizing that this is very important. They say "the world religion," and this is the tool. They say, well, the tool. "Here is the new tool for religion education in the secondary schools." So they are recognizing this fact.

Prabhupāda: Without canvassing, people join.

Guest (2): This is the fact here, see.

Prabhupāda: And the world religion... The Ratha-yātrā, we did not ask any particular man. Everyone came and joined. You were there?

Guest (1): No, I was not.

Prabhupāda: Everyone came and joined. Everyone took prasādam. And they were in Trafalgar Square from five to eight, continually. And Guardian published that...

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: There are good teachers. We are teaching Sanskrit and English especially.

Guest (3): They teach Sanskrit, English?

Prabhupāda: That is what. We are preparing them so that they can read our literature which is in Sanskrit and English. As soon as they can read, that's education finished. They will understand, practical demonstration, ārati, worship of the Deity, and they play mṛdaṅga, they chant, they join Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting. They are not meant for any technology.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Dreams mean that is also change of body.

Guest (5): It has nothing to do with the human...?

Prabhupāda: No, dream... Just like you forget about this body. Just you have forgotten what body you had in your last birth, similarly, the same experience daily happening. When you dream, you forget that you have got this body. And again, when you give up your dreaming, you come to this body, you forget in what body you were dreaming. So this is the proof that you are living entity, but the body's changing daily. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But these rascals, they do not understand that there is the dehāntara. They are experiencing daily that there is dehāntara, but they do not have any education about this dehāntara.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent. Just like one man is working somewhere. Now, notice is given that "From such and such date, your work will not be required." Then you become anxious to know: "Then what shall I do next." I have to work. So similarly, if a person understands that he's going to change this body... Just like I'm an old man. I'll have to change in, say, immediately, or say five years, ten years. But the notice is already there because I am old man. So it is my duty to think: "Then what body I'm going to take next?" That is intelligence. And we have to prepare for that. So that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can prepare yourself to go the higher planetary system, where demigods live. Pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. You can go to the Pitṛloka. Bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā. If you want to remain within this planetary system,... yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām. "And anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he comes to Me," Kṛṣṇa says. So why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6).

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The sleeping man can be awakened simply by this process, allowing the sound to enter the ear. By no other process. He's sleeping. If you show him a stick, "If you don't get up, I shall strike you," that will not be effective. Because sleeping. If you say... So many things... There are other senses. There will be no action. But only through the ear, if you cry, "Please get up! Please get up! Now your time," that will act. So our process is that, to force him to hear. Then he'll be awakened, by hearing. Therefore Vedic literature is called śruti. Śruti means it has to be received by hearing. You may be uneducated. It doesn't matter. If you simply hear from the right source, you get right knowledge. There is no need of education. Simply by hearing.

Guest (1): You teach your children, don't you?

Prabhupāda: Yes, all my disciples, they're taught.

Guest (1): No, I didn't mean disciples. I meant children, little ones.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. We have got children's school also.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...accepted in that group.

Guest (1): Suppose if somebody is absolutely ignorant about...

Prabhupāda: So therefore there should be education. Why the śāstras are there? Why guru is there? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You must accept guru and learn. Why should you remain ignorant?

Guest (1): How one should start when he's completely ignorant of all these things?

Prabhupāda: He should go... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet.

Guest (1): Tad viddhi praṇipātena... (BG 4.34).

Prabhupāda: Paripraśnena sevayā. He should become a disciple of a bona fide guru. Otherwise how he can learn. If you are uneducated, you should go to school.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: The idea was that everyone should be pleased, that everyone should take...

Prabhupāda: No, where is the... In France, everyone is pleased? That is the imagination. You see. Vox populi, peoples' government. People, generally, general people, they are fools and rascals. How a government of fools and rascals can improve? It's not possible. They're ignorant. Abodha-jāta. They have no knowledge. The knowledge of eating, sleeping, mating, defending, that is animal knowledge. Everyone knows it. How to eat, nobody requires any education. How to sleep, nobody requires and any education. How to have sex life, nobody requires any education. How to defend, nobody requires education. They are not subject matter of education. Everyone knows it, how to do it. The modern education means they are on this subject matter. Just like that rascal, Freud?

Haṁsadūta: Freud.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. I am making atomic bomb, you are making... Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters. But did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat. Just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up." So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter. Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable. And they eat and they live. Now the advancement... Agricultural institute, a big college, how to improve agriculture. Crude people, they are producing also. Without agricultural college, they are producing sufficiently grain and eating. Still they do so. Do they depend on agricultural education? Real education is how to solve the problems of life, birth, death, old age, and how to go back to home, back to... That is education. This is not education. This is simply waste of time. Because you cannot change your destiny. Now, take for example, there are so many agricultural improvements. Does it mean that there is no person who is needy? There are so many needy persons. But has the agricultural education improved their lot? No. Starving people are still there. Rather, those who can produce, they're producing and throwing into the sea. They'll not part with it for the poor men who are starving. Then where is the advancement of education? You produce more by advanced agricultural process and then throw it into the ocean. Real purpose was to produce more to see that nobody's hungry. That is not being done. There is no sympathy. This is not civilization.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But in this material world, even if you become peaceful, does it mean that you are out of suffering? I don't think.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. Well, I've been asking in all these universities, high schools, and all those, all those audiences, "What is the purpose of this so-called modern education? What is the purpose? If so, kindly define this purpose. Have people thought on this?" I just gave a broadcast at Southampton day before yesterday. Nobody, not many people appear to have seriously considered this question. Is it to fly to the moon? Is it to be a food taster or a noise lover? Or is it to build dreams and castles in the air? Or to soak one's self in the whirlpools of kāma, sensuality? What is this meant for? What is our education for? No one appeared... Very, very few people have appeared to ...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no aim of the education. Their only aim is economic development.

Buddhist Monk (1): That's right.

Prabhupāda: And that means a higher standard of sense gratification.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): Which to us is the fools' paradise.

Prabhupāda: That... Again I am quoting that Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after this body there is no life." That is their conviction. This is the primary teaching of spiritual life, that we have got next life. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntaram. After giving up this body, you have to accept another body. This is the first lesson of spiritual education. But they do not understand the first lesson even. What is their spiritual understanding?

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

So dehāntara-prāptiḥ they do not understand. And it is very easy, that "I am, dehāntaram, I am changing my body. I was a baby, I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man. So I have changed so many bodies. But I remember, I was a child. I remember. I was a boy. I remember. Therefore I am existing. My body has changed." Simple truth. Similarly, when this body will be changed, I will exist. Where is the difficulty to understand? But this plain thing they cannot understand. And they are passing as educated, philosopher, scientist. This plain truth, they cannot understand. The brain is so dull. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The first thing I shall request you, the first principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or the first ABCD of spiritual education, is to understand the constitutional position of the living entity. He is, he is spirit soul. He's not this body. The spirit soul is living within this body, but the, the body's not the spirit soul. This thing must be understood very clearly. You know, in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, the proprietor of the body, is within this body. Dehinaḥ asmin dehe yathā. And the body is changing, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, like that. So when this body will be useless, we will take another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This first education of spiritual life should be understood first. Then one can make progress. Then one can understand what is the constitution of God, what is our relationship with Him. But if, so long we shall remain under the bodily concept of life, this subject matter will remain difficult.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Any science does not depend on East and West understanding. Science is science.

Malcolm: No. I'm talking not of science, but of education which...

Prabhupāda: No, education is different. Education may be wrong or right, but science is always the fact. "Two plus two equal to four,"—that is equally good in the East and West, not that in the western countries, two plus two will be five. So similarly, any scientific knowledge, it does not depend on East and West understanding. It is good for everywhere. Similarly, to understand the science of God, it does not depend on the Western culture or Eastern culture. One must be serious to understand. Then it is equally available. Ahaituky apratihatā. These material impediments cannot check progress in the science of God, cannot. Apratihatā, without any checking. That we are experiencing, that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not checked anywhere. We have got branches all over the world.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So work is required. But godly persons, they want to live a simple life and high thinking, save time for understanding of God. The demonic people, they are engaged in horrible activities. They have manufactured so many things. So in this way... There are so many descriptions. Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga. So people are being misled. Actually, the human being, the form of human life, is distinct from animal life. So if we live like animals, then we are missing the chance. At the present moment, this is the position. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement strictly on the basis of this Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, there is everything explained.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But those who are thinking good for all humanity, they should note this defect, that simply giving him nice food, nice shelter, nice sex facilities and nice defense, his problem of life is not solved. He should be given enlightenment about God consciousness. And if he is educated in that way, if he, by next life, he can go back to home, back to Godhead. This education is lacking. So we are trying in our small endeavor. But if leading personalities like you of the society, they try to understand this philosophy scientifically, critically, and take it seriously, they can, there will be great benefit for the human society. The program we have got, but we are not leading personalities. You are all leading personalities. At least in England. Lord... This group, House of Lords is there. It was always there. In previous days also. They were called amātyas. All leading men of the society, they used to give advice to the king. And brāhmaṇas also. I think the knighthood means that.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: But there'll be too many today to be associates.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Now it has come to another platform. So anyway, the knights, they are respectable gentlemen of the society, leading men of the society. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for enlightening people to the right standard of understanding the goal of life. Because after this life, after this body is annihilated, we do not know what kind of body we are getting next. We must prepare. Just like you are elevated to the position of lordship. So you had to prepare yourself. Not that this lordship is offered to anyone and everyone. One who is qualified, he is offered this position. Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life. But that education is lacking. There is no such education. In the university or anywhere, nobody thinks, "What we are going to become next life?" But we should be prepared. If, after becoming Prime Minister in this life, or President, like Mr. Nixon, and again, by his activities, he's going to be another animal, oh, that is not very successful proposal. But there is such chance. Because after death, after giving up this body, we are completely under the grip of material nature.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Because your son has come here, you may not be happier. But he happier.

Mother: Oh, you're saying this. I'm not saying this. I'm very disappointed that he is not continuing with education. I'm not sorry that... I'm happy for his happiness, wherever he is.

Prabhupāda: But what is the... What is the purpose of education?

Mother: You are a cultured man. You're educated.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Did you not learn...? Who gave you the talent to translate your Vedic scriptures?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mother: Who gave you the talent, father?

Prabhupāda: No, I'm asking that what is the best part of education? So far my school, college education is concerned, that is not being used here.

Mother: Oh, but you're cultured. You in your old age are getting tremendous comfort from being able to read and understand what the world is doing, the goodness of your books, and you have..., you're able to understand the spiritual way of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That...

Mother: If you couldn't, if you hadn't been educated, father, well, how would you be able to have...?

Prabhupāda: No, education is required.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Now, I, I, I don't... I am so happy that my son is happy, truthfully. But I am very distressed... And little boys, don't laugh because this is serious. Um. I am very distressed that none of these boys continue their education. What is going to happen to them when they are like you, when they're older, they have no talents?

Prabhupāda: But your educational system, in the western countries, the, you have got big, big universities. Why the university students becoming hippies?

Mother: Oh, well, there're always a certain amount becoming hippies, in America, anywhere. But we must...

Prabhupāda: No...

Mother: But we must develop...

Prabhupāda: I think the college students university students, they're all hippies.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I mean to say that if the chance of education is there... In India there is no such big, big universities, facilities, but in your western countries you have got nice universities, nice teaching system. Why the result is hippie?

Mother: Oh, but you... We're talking of you. You have got the power. But people follow you because they believe in you. So you have the power to educate them. And you're not hippies, are you?

Prabhupāda: My point is that this simple, this education for eating, sleeping, mating and defending, this sort of education will not satisfy.

Mother: Well, you're educated, you see.

Prabhupāda: No, I am educated.

Mother: Yes, but how many of these are?

Prabhupāda: But I am not educated only on this platform, eating, sleeping and sex life and defense. I am educated in a different platform.

Mother: But you, aren't you translating your books still?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: But you, aren't you translating your books still?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.

Mother: Isn't that a great joy, a great joy to you?

Prabhupāda: That's... For translating of books it does not require... Of course, it requires when the purport of the translation is given. Otherwise,... Real thing is culture. That education is culture. Simply money-making education for maintaining this body, that education will not satisfy any more. Just like I told you, that despite all arrangements of education, why the young men are turning to be hippies? That is my question.

Mother: Oh, but not your followers. Your followers are not being hippies, people who follow you. Therefore you've got the people who you could help to become cultured like you.

Prabhupāda: So my father educated me in a different way. Therefore I have come to this stage. My father never allowed me even to drink tea.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Yes, but you're not mature. It takes years to become mature. Hurt, pain, happiness, everything together... You find God? Yes, I've found God. We all... I feel very close to God, and I feel very happy. But I would also still wish to be educated. And fortunately, I was given the chance to have an education.

Prabhupāda: Education means to know God.

Mother: And I don't misuse it.

Prabhupāda: That is education. Our Vedic culture, the high class man is called brāhmaṇa.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa, you know that.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Brāhmaṇa, yes.

Prabhupāda: So who is a brāhmaṇa? Who knows God, he is called brāhmaṇa. Therefore culmination of education is to understand God. That is education. Otherwise, to get education how to nicely eat, how nicely sleep, how nicely have sex life, and how to defend, this education is there even in the animals. The animals also, they know how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life and how to defend.

Mother: Yes. It seems to worry you, this sex life. I mean, we, we don't take...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I'm not worried.

Mother: ...any notice if... It fits into its place.

Prabhupāda: This is also necessary. This is also necessary.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Yes. It doesn't worry us at all.

Prabhupāda: But these four type of branches of education is not sufficient for human being. A human being, above all this education, must have the knowledge how to love God. And that is perfection of life.

Mother: Yeah, well, Michael was taught that when he was very small. The Jesuits saw to that.

Prabhupāda: That is perfection.

Mother: The Jesuits certainly did.

Prabhupāda: So to understand God or how to love God, there is religious system. In every civilized human society, it doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Hinduism or Mohammedanism or Buddhism, the aim, religious system is there in human society besides the education of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is there in the animal society. So a human being is distinct from the animal when he has education how to understand God and how to love Him. That is perfection.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: You've got a good tape there now. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is now wanting. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not depriving people of their education. You get education how to eat, how to sleep, and that's all right. But side by side, you take education how to know God and how to love Him. That is our proposition.

Mother: Yes. I agree with you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mother: Yes, I agree with you every time.

Prabhupāda: We don't say that you stop all this education. No.

Mother: No, I don't agree with you there. No, father, no, no. No, no.

Prabhupāda: We don't say.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: I agree for some people to, you especially, to think of this because you are a leader of your Vedic religion. But for everybody to do that, where would we be? We couldn't all sit down and think all the time.

Prabhupāda: But where is that education?

Mother: But we... You can also work and think.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, where is that education in the university to prepare the student for the next life?

Mother: Oh, but he must fit it in.

Jesuit Priest: All the Catholic Universities all over the world are doing it. That's our main purpose, is to teach the young man and the young girl the success in this world, but above all,...

Prabhupāda: Then the next question...

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: They are now little children. But we don't wish to send them to college. We have got sufficient books.

Mother: So you'll cut off their education like that?

Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense education?

Revatīnandana: No, no.

Mother: Now, do you think that's not cruel to them?

Prabhupāda: We don't care for this...

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So we pay for that.

Jesuit Priest: I know, but you call him, don't you? You want him to be, you want the doctor in existence.

Prabhupāda: So does it mean to say that because we require necessary, we have to take education of medical man?

Mother: But you don't train people to be medical men.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, if we can get it easily...

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: I myself did a training. I became a nurse.

Prabhupāda: You are asking us "Why you are not taking medical education?" Why we shall take?

Mother: Because if everybody...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no necessity. If the... If I can pay, I can get the help of a medical man, why should I waste my time in that way? Let me...

Mother: You think? Ah, but you should be self-supporting. You should be...

Prabhupāda: Let me engage my time for understanding God.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is my duty.

Mother: You've helped them tremendously, and I can see this, but I am so sad that you can't help them to further their education. That's all my, my problem is...

Mahādeva: Prabhupāda was making the point that the purpose of education is to know God.

Mother: Yes, I know. I know. Yes, he has, and I've seen that point.

Prabhupāda: Don't you think this is education?

Mother: Well...

Prabhupāda: This translator work?

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If we are teaching our boys...

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: But you know what I me...

Prabhupāda: ...Sanskrit and English to translate the original Vedic lit..., is it not education?

Mother: Yes, I agree with you. That is education. But I mean a fuller education.

Prabhupāda: You are trying to induce our students to become technologists, medical men. You want that.

Mother: Yes, because the world must have them.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But our point is that if we can get the help of technologist by paying little money...

Mother: Well, you'd laugh if you were ill and there was no doctor, wouldn't you?

Prabhupāda: ...why should we waste our time?

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Jesuit Priest: I think most of us do, too.

Prabhupāda: Now, in each of our centers we have got minimum fifty heads, maximum two hundred, 250. In Los Angeles, you see... Just we have got recent photograph. Bring the photograph from my room. You can bring. So we are giving them place, we are giving them food, we are giving them education.

Jesuit Priest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In this way. So we invite anyone, everyone, without any distinction, without any discrimination. He may be Christian, he may be Hindu, he may be Mohammedan. "Come on. Live with us, and learn how to love." That is our mission.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. And treat all living entities as you want to be treated. If one has got these three qualifications, he is learned man. He does not say, one who has got this BAC, DAC degrees, and so on, so on, so on. No. The result of his education is to be seen by three manifestations: treating all women as mother; treating others' money, property, as garbage, as rubbish in the street; and treating all living entities as you want to be treated yourself. If one has attained these three development of knowledge, he is learned. There is no question of literary education. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. So if we covet other's wife, if we eat meat, if we indulge in intoxication, if we indulge in gambling, we are polluting the whole society. So how we can expect purification unless we accept these principles? You cannot ignite fire, at the same time pour water on it.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Now there are many atheists.

Cardinal Danielou: Many atheists, yes. In France, we have this problem. In France, the greatest parts of the, of, of children are baptized and trained...

Prabhupāda: Give me little more.

Cardinal Danielou: In France, the greatest part of children are baptized and receive a religious education, the religious training, the great part. The atheism is chiefly, amongst intellectuals. Not...

Prabhupāda: Ah! Not in the mass.

Cardinal Danielou: Not in the... No, not in the mass.

Prabhupāda: The same thing....

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. That is a fact. Because we get all this information from Vedic literature. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). You understand Sanskrit?

Dr. Inger: Little bit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantor deha upapattaye. A living entity is getting body by, as a result of his karma. And supervised by higher authority. Now when we speak of karma, or result of karma, there must be somebody who will judge. Just like one has stolen something, and the magistrate is judging the karma, the criminal activity, and he's putting him either in the prison house or getting him released. "No, he's not culprit." So as soon as we speak of karma, there must be somebody else to judge. And that judgement is said: daiva netreṇa. Daiva means divine supervision. So what is that divine supervision? Next question immediately comes. As soon as you accept karma, and the resultant action, and it is supervised by the divine authority, then next question will be: what is that divine authority? In this way, we have to go forward. So that sort of education is nowhere in the world.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, here, or India, or everywhere.

Dr. Inger: Yes. Nobody is...

Prabhupāda: So that means people have become so dull in spite of so-called education.

Dr. Inger: That is true.

Prabhupāda: That's, that's my point.

Dr. Inger: Oh yes. Education is merely book knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhā.

Dr. Inger: ...of substance given, read, prepared.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So in this body I am thinking of France, and if my next body, it is not in France or is not human, I will think otherwise. So the whole duration of my life which I thought in one way, that is simply wasted. Simply wasted. They do not know. This knowledge is lacking. There is no such knowledge in the university, any education, nothing. Simply they are wasting time. Simply. They have no perfect knowledge. They are wasting their time, and doing something just like childish, and going on as advanced in civilization, and so on, so on, so on. Now they should think. Simply on some utopian ideas they should not go. They should know, "What is the purpose of life, what is our connection with this cosmic manifestation, if... There must be some creator. Who is that creator? What is my relation with Him?" These... There are so many things. But they are neglecting. And still, they are passing on as scientist, as philosopher, as politicians and leaders.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then? It is a common sense affair. The God has given you independence. If you do something wrong, against the will of God, then you must suffer. Therefore we find so many varieties of living entities. In different grades of life. That is due to misuse of independence.

Yogeśvara: Very popular today is the idea that if we are use, misusing our independence, it's because of our upbringing, our childhood, our society, something is wrong in our psychology. Not that it's the soul, not that it's a question of spiritual problem, but material one, that our parents were cruel or our society, our education was imperfect or something. But not spiritual problem.

Prabhupāda: So that is independence. Your parents were cruel. Therefore you have revolted against the parents. That is your independence. Why you revolted against parents? Because you have got the independence.

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is... There is... Even astrology, Bṛghu-saṁhitā. Astrological calculation. You can know your past life, present life, and future life. There is system. Bṛghu-saṁhitā.

Graham Hill: So by our behavior (indistinct) will determine what sort of body we will get when we return?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you are educating your son for future life. So according to his education, according to his qualification, his future life will be fixed up. If he is properly educated he can become a very big man. And if he is not, he may not become. So this life is preparation for the next life. So this human form of life, if we are advanced in our consciousness then we should try to get our next life going back to home, back to Godhead.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: In the Jewish tradition, they yearn for a life of living on farms, villages, small communities with cows and agriculture.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Is this also expressed in the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

David Lawrence: You feel that strongly.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is real life. Real life means you have to minimize your bodily activities so that you can save time and devote for spiritual understanding. That is real life. And the present civilization based on bodily concept of life is animal life. It is not civilized life. Civilized life means athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one is advanced so much so that he inquires about the spirit soul. But there is no such inquiry. Like the cats and dogs, they cannot inquire what is spirit soul. So Vedic life means to become free as much as possible from the bodily disturbances. Therefore, the first education is to become brahmacārī, celibacy. You see? Now, at the present moment, they are trying to make the abortion as law. But these rascals cannot check their sex life. You see? Their philosophy is that you shall go on with sex life unrestrictedly and when there is pregnancy, kill the child.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So, in this way, as soon as we understand or become convinced that I am not this body, then spiritual education begins. (If) I am different, then the next question will be, then what for I am working? Naturally at the present moment we are working for this body, maintenance of the body. For eating, sleeping, having facility for sex life or sense gratification and to protect this body from being harmed. This is our business. But if I am not this body, then, I am spirit soul, then the next question will be, what I am doing for the spirit soul? When actually I am working for this body because I, spirit soul, is within this body. Just like we are keeping this room fit for habitation because I am living here.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...but spiritual, satisfaction of spiritual starvation. Because we are spiritual beings. That I was trying to explain. That we have bodily necessities, at the same time we have spiritual necessities. This Western civilization, they are simply after the bodily necessities. Just like here is a qualified medical man. He's made... What for, medical man? He knows how to satisfy the medical necessities of the body. He has no information of the spirit soul. Is it not a fact? Have you got any idea what is spirit soul?

Guest (2) (Indian Doctor): Not from the medical knowledge, certainly not.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that these universities, educational institution, all over the world, they are simply concerned with this body. According to our Vedic culture, to remain satisfied with the bodily necessities of life is the business of animals. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): What is God to a layman, like me.

Prabhupāda: Layman, well, layman means, we already explained, he's no better than animal. Because layman means one who thinks that "I am this body." He's layman. He has no other information. So layman is equal to animal. So layman's education, layman's advancement is decoration of the dead body. If you decorate a dead body, you can feel satisfaction. But others will laugh, that "What a fool he is, he's decorating a dead body?" Bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ śāstraṁ japas tapaḥ, aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Layman's business is decorating this dead body, that's all.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect. Formerly the government will see... I was explaining this, this morning. That it is the kṣatriya's duty to see that one is passing as a brāhmaṇa, whether he's qualified. Why he should pass? Suppose he says, "I'm medical man." He must be qualified. And if he says, "I am medical man," then he's cheating. So you cannot call yourself a brāhmaṇa unless you are qualified. But that is going on. And this cheating is being accepted. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma or Vedic dharma means varṇāśrama-dharma. One must first of all accept the principles of varṇas and āśramas. Then there is question of understanding God. God is not so cheap thing, "What is God?" and you understand immediately. You must become first of all brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So this institution is meant for giving chance to everyone to hear. It doesn't require education. Simply God has given him this ear. Let him receive the message from the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. This is the process. Very simple process. Simply to hear, sincerely, then everything will be done gradually. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). By hearing, the mirror of consciousness, consciousness is just like a mirror. It is now covered with dust. Mārjanam. Mirror, if you cleanse with a duster, then you can see clearly what is your face. So by this chanting process and hearing, gradually the dirty things in the heart will be cleansed. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply hearing about Kṛṣṇa is puṇya, pious activities. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Either you hear or you chant. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. There are so many dirty things, nonsense things, within the heart.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So everyone is seeking after blissful life, but that is not possible in this materialistic way of life. That is not possible. One must seek blissful life in spiritual understanding, brahma-saukhyam, brahma-sukha. That is required. Transcendental pleasure. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani. Satyānande, real happiness, in the spiritual understanding, spiritual platform. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate (CC Madhya 9.29). That kind of enjoyment is called rāma. Ramaṇa. From ramaṇa, rāma. That is wanted. So there is no education at the present moment. But people are hankering. Western people especially. They've have seen enough of this material enjoyment, now they are hankering after their spiritual life. Therefore they look forward towards the Vedic culture. This is the answer.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (3) (Indian man): What is the purpose of Lord for creating human life or animal life or so many things? Why...?

Prabhupāda: That is, that is next question, that you have to accept next body, but what kind of body you'll have? That you can see, that there are so many varieties of life, body. You have to accept one of them. Just like when you were admitted into school for education. The idea was that you'll be educated, and according to your education, there are so many posts you'll have to occupy. Just like you are lawyer, he's medical man, somebody's engineer, somebody else, somebody... Varieties or field of activities. So according to the perfection of one's education, he has to accept one post like that. Similarly, next body means according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). You are preparing your next Life.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: If one's mind is, what is called, distorted, then the indriyas cannot work. That is madman. You try to cure the mental disease just to bring him in proper position to control the senses. Otherwise, he does not know how to control the senses. Therefore the controller of the senses is the mind. And above the mind there is intelligence. And above the intelligence there is soul. So we cannot see even the mind, intelligence and ego. And how we can see the soul? The soul has got his magnitude. And without understanding, without education about the soul, about the spirit soul, any other understanding, that is animal understanding. (pause) Give him prasāda.

Guest (4) (English woman): Could I ask please, if prāṇa is the life force, isn't it? Is it the prāṇa is the life force, isn't it? Pradyumna: Says like prāṇa is the life force. Guest (4): Is it in different parts of the body? Prabhupāda: These are air. Prāṇa, in the prāṇa, air, the soul floats. Therefore the controlling the air is called prāṇāyāma. That is yogic process.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: So by order of our superiors, we are trying to introduce. But we are very unhappy, seeing these people. They are spoiling their life in the bodily concept of life. He does not know what is going to happen next life. But there is a next life. That's a fact. As we had past life as child, as boy, as young man, similarly, we have past life also. This simple truth, they cannot understand. Or there is no attempt in the educational field.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Just like you have got the Commerce Department. Government has got. What is the duty of the Commerce Department? The government must see that the trade enterprise, common share, or industrial enterprise, they are doing nicely, properly. The government issuing license. They have got supervision. They send sometimes, what is called, inspectors? Education. Say, for education. There is educational inspector, school inspector. They go see that the students are properly being educated in that school. Similarly, government should have expert men in the government to see that the Hindus are acting like Hindu, Muslims are acting like Muslim, and Christians are acting like Christian. The government should not be callous about religion. They may be neutral that whatever religion you profess, government has nothing to do. You do nicely. But it is the government's duty to see that you are doing nicely, you are not bluffing. That is government's duty.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: If you are sane man, if you give due consideration, and then give your judgement, then you'll find that it is wonderful. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. We don't say that you take it blindly. No. Vicāra. After full logic, and consideration, you accept, not blindly. But if you do that, you'll see it is wonderful. It is wonder... So why those who are advanced in education, they should not take this movement seriously and try to understand seriously and cooperate with us? It is not a blind thing. So... Actually, from government level, we are not getting any support. Not... I don't speak in India. Anywhere.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes, In Vṛndāvana. We have got very, very, big, big temples now. So those temples, the Indians are callous. They are after technology. They are not coming. So how I'll manage, how I'll manage them if they are driven away? That is my problem. But the Indian boys, they are not coming. Indian educated... They are coming, but not very educated.

Ambassador: That's... I, I understand what you mean.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The educated Indian, boys, they'll accept good service. Why they come to temple?

Ambassador: I'm sorry. You are right.

Prabhupāda: That is education. They are not prepared to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They want some good service and enjoy life. That's all.

Ambassador: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, no. You can place there. What you want just now?

Ambassador: I just want to place it here, and that washroom.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can wash inside.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Reporter (1): I wonder if I could ask you first of all to tell me what is the central point of the teaching of Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Central point is to understand God. People have become so foolish. They have forgotten to know about God, know about himself, what he is. Everyone is under the impression that "I am this body," which he's not. He's spirit soul. They're so much in ignorance, and there is no education. Even big, big professors. Prof. Kotofsky, in Russia, he told me, "Swamiji, after this body's finished, everything is finished." That is not the fact.

Reporter (1): Can you tell me who is Lord Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa is God, the Supreme Personality of God.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Reporter (1): Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness genuine?

Prabhupāda: Then we are simply wasting our time, do you think? By preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do you think we are wasting our time? We are so fools? Why do you ask this nonsense question, "genuine"? Unless it is genuine, why we are working so hard?

Reporter (1): Why is it so popular among young people?

Prabhupāda: Because they have got knowledge. Young people are receptive. Young people, education is given during youth time, not in old age. Old men cannot take any education. Whatever he has learned, he'll take another period of fifty years to forget that. Therefore sometimes it is called "old fools." But young men, they are receptive, they have got brain. When they understand that "Here is something," they understand.

Reporter (1): Many thanks. I'm very grateful... (break)

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How can be all Gods then? That is practical. If everyone is God, then what is the meaning of God? If... Do you think everyone is president, everyone is Indira Gandhi? Indira Gandhi is one. The Prime Minister cannot be many. It is a common sense. How everyone can be God? This is nonsense. Anyone thinks that there are many gods, he does not know what is God. Aiye. God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. Therefore there is no education what is God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagava... Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "Nobody else superior than Me." That is God. Asama-ūrdhva. God is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as asama-ūrdhva. You can come this side? Let them come forward. You sit down... (break) ...equal to God. And nobody can be greater than God. That is "God is great." If somebody becomes equal to you, how you can be great? Or if somebody is higher than you, then how you can be great? So there is no equal to God, nor greater than Him. That is God. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7).

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Brahma-jijñāsā means first to know one's self, self-realization, "what I am." And in the Bhagavad-gītā the first reply is given there. This brahma-jijñāsā. Because Arjuna was puzzled. He was thinking that "My kinsmen, my grandfather, my brothers, they are this skin, this body." So he was thinking, "If I kill my grandfather, my brother on the other side, what is the use of this fight? I do not like." But he was thinking in bodily concept of life. This is the position of everyone. Everyone is in the bodily concept of life. Therefore the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The asmin dehe, in this body, there is the soul. He is the proprietor. So this life should be, education means one should be advanced in education to inquire about himself, that is brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. And as soon as there is question of jijñāsā, then there must be somebody else from whom to inquire. Therefore śāstra says that when you are jijñāsu, when you are inquisitive... Inquisitive of what? Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Śreyas.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So those who will act as brain, they must possess these qualities. But who is being taught these qualities? This modern civilization is teaching people how to steal, how to cheat, how to satisfy your own sense gratification. You see? No tolerance, no complete knowledge. All fools and rascals, no knowledge. Knowledge means they must know what is the aim of life, what is God, what we are, what is this material world, why we have come here. So many things. This is called God consciousness. There is no such educational institution all over the world. Is there any institution where it is being especially taught what is God, what I am. Is there any institution?

Banker: Well, there are metaphysics departments in almost every university.

Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics. You were also a student of philosophy?

Banker: I took some courses. My major courses were in business. But I took some in philosophy, ethic, logic.

Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: A dog cannot live independently. He must have a master. Then he is happy. Is it not? Otherwise it is street dog. So modern education is that they are creating śūdras, to become dependent on others. And therefore modern economic development is taking place because there are so many people, they are prepared to give them service. Suppose in your bank, if you withdraw from the service, the bank will stop. Industry will stop. So because there is no such division as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Everyone is śūdra. Therefore this economic development, so-called economic development, has become possible. But in spite of all this economic development, because people are śūdras, they cannot be happy. Because śocati, they will lament, strike. Even they are getting thousands of rupees, strike. Even they get five hundred thousands of rupees, still there will be strike. Because they are śūdras.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, knowingly, no sane man will go. But because he is ignorant, he is making plan to be happy, and one day it comes, "Kick out! Go out!" That is ignorance. Therefore śūdra. Therefore our perfection of life should be, that is recommended in the śāstra, brahma-saukhyam anantam. You should aspire of happiness which is unlimited. You will never be kicked out from that happiness. That is the idea. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). This is the instruction. You must try for a place where you get eternal life, eternal bliss, eternal knowledge. That is perfection.

Banker: In order to seek that, you have established a routine in your life so that you do not waste time thinking about the mundane.

Prabhupāda: There is education, proper... This is education, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Banker: Well, you could say the same for the lower group people who work one third of their life in business, spend one third in sleep, and spend one third in whatever else they want to do. That is also a routine.

Prabhupāda: What is that? I do not follow.

Banker: My point is that the average person lives a very similar type of routine even if... Those who do not take business as an end in itself spend one-third of their life doing that. They spend one third of their life sleeping and they spend one third doing what they want to do.

Prabhupāda: Why one third? They are sleeping more than half.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to understand the value of life. The modern system of education and civilization is so degraded that people have forgotten the value of life. Generally, in this material world everyone is forgetful of the value of life, but the human form of life is a chance to awaken the importance of life. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one is not awakened to the consciousness of self-realization, the foolish living entity, whatever he is doing is defeat for him. This defeat is going on in the lower species of life because they cannot understand what is the value of life. Their consciousness is not advanced. But even in the human form of life, the same defeat prolongs, that is not very good civilization. That is almost animal civilization. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānyā etat paśubhir narāṇām.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of persons, one may attempt to become successful in his life." Siddhaye, siddhi. This is siddhi, how to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease. And manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. The modern civilized man is so dull, he does not know what is siddhi. They think that "If I get some money and one bungalow and one car, that is siddhi." That is not siddhi. You can get a few years a very nice bungalow, a car, nice family. But any moment this arrangement will be finished and you have to accept another body. That you do not know. And neither they do care to know it. So they have become so dull-headed, although they are very much proud of education, advancement of civilization. But we are protesting. We are protesting. I am not protesting. Kṛṣṇa is protesting.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are not interested. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They clearly says that "What this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or saṅkīrtana will do?" They says, yes. (laughs) They have become so dull. The Bhagavad-gītā, the culture of India, they have forsaken. They are now taking culture from Russia. Yes. This is the advancement of education. They are taking instruction from Lenin than from Kṛṣṇa. This is the position. Especially in India. Outside India they are interested, so many European, American, Western countries' boys and girls, they have joined and sacrificed their life. But in India they are callous. They think that "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? We know that. It is very old story. Now we want technology."

Guest (1) (Indian man): In Delhi we have got quite a big number of good life members and helpful people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are, certainly. India is born Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by artificial means... Amongst the mass of people the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, but amongst the so-called educated, advanced, they are trying to forget. This is the difficulty.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1973, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. This verse is very important verse.

Guest (1): Very important.

Prabhupāda: Huh. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ (SB 1.5.22).

Gurudāsa: That volume is packed, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: All right. Nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yad avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. Nirūpita means it is already decided. The perfection of your education is this. What is that? Nāmāny anantasya. Anantasya. Yaśaḥ aṅkitāni. Yaśaḥ. That is perfection. If you scientific knowledge, philosophical knowledge; cannot establish the glories of the Supreme Lord.

Guest (1): Then they are useless.

Prabhupāda: Useless. Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. It is already taken. Nirūpita means there is no argument. It is already concluded.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: Sometimes they take refuge in the idea that: "My family will live on," or "My species..." or "my..."

Prabhupāda: That's...

Śyāmasundara: "...children..."

Prabhupāda: ...all right. The family will live on not forever. They'll live also, say, for few days. Just we go sometimes in... Just like in England, the castles are there, very old castle, thousand years, two thousand... Even this Westminster Abbey and palace, but which king has lived for there permanently? And now, if you know more, if the king has, by his work, become something else. Not necessarily he'll become a king in that house. He may become a dog there. This science they do not know. And they are proud of their education, culture. Suppose we are constructing the Vṛndāvana temple or Bombay temple. It is also certain we shall not live, but our attempt to construct that temple will be recorded in Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Darkness is within this universe, not outside. Not outside.

Karandhara: Darkness has no separate existence.

Prabhupāda: Darkness means absence of light. That is darkness. It is the negation of light. Similarly, material life means forgetfulness of God. That's all... What is our spiritual life? We are simply trying to revive our understanding of God. That is spiritual life. And when you perfectly revive, that is spiritual. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...whatever you do, that is your defeat. Because you cannot see things in the proper perspective, therefore in darkness or in ignorance, whatever you do, that is your defeat. Therefore we see that so much advancement of education, civilization, but everything is defeat. Nobody's satisfied. Because it is defeat. It is not progress. It is defeat.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Rascal means that... You know the story, that Kālidāsa, a great poet, he was a great rascal. So... It is a long story. So he was sitting on the branch of a tree and cutting. So some gentleman: "Why you are cutting? You'll fall down." "No, no, I'll not fall down." But when he fell down, then he went to that gentleman, "How did you know, sir, that I shall fall down?" Then they concluded, "Here is a rascal number one." (laughter) "Here is a rascal number one." They do not know that they are going to hell. That is rascaldom. By their so-called scientific advancement, philosophy, education, they are going to hell. That they do not know. Therefore they are rascals. Therefore they are rascals. This is the definition of rascaldom: one who does not know where he is going. If somebody goes in this way straight, and you say "Don't go!" "No! Why shall I not go?" He's rascal. (laughter) He's rascal. And the another rascal, "Yes, yes, you can go, it is all right." Yata mata tata patha. "As many ways you manufacture, it is all right. You can go this way." He's another rascal. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyāḥ, jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva ṣaḍ iti bhagavān gaṇaḥ. (?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that is imagination.

Prabhupāda: Why imagination? It is not imagination. Just like I am a man. I have got hundred dollars. He has got thousand dollars. He has got four thousand or five thousand. In this way we see comparative. One is richer than other, other, other. Then why there shall not be somebody who is richest of all? We see practically. How can you deny? That is God. Power, strength—you are stronger than me, he is stronger than you, he is stronger, like that. But if we find somebody, that nobody is stronger than him, he is God. Education, beauty, all the six opulences, you compare. Because we see comparative, so there must be somebody ideal, above whom there is no more education, no more wisdom, no more beauty. That is God.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore the best education, scientific advancement, is to recognize God behind everything. That is perfection. We are canvassing, "Accept God, accept God." But if the modern scientist, philosopher, they present, "Yes, here is God," by calculation, then people will take it more seriously. "Oh, the scientist is saying." That is wanted. We are fighting with the scientists and others because they do not accept God. That is their fault. Otherwise, they are friends. They are giving more stress on the physical laws, nature, but they do not know under whose indication the physical laws are working, the nature is working. That they do not know. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. It is the... In Vedic literatures it is said, chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. The nature is working just like shadow, shadow of God. Just like master says, "Go there." Immediately the servant goes there. The servant is not independent. by the indication of the master, goes there. So that is nature. And because the arrangement is so perfect... Just like you said, "Out of season, the flowers came out." So they cannot explain. The arrangement is so perfect that God desired, "Now there, let be these flowers," and nature immediately produces. The arrangement is so perfect that these people, they cannot understand. They become amazed, "How it happened?"

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: That that's right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you must take this clue, that we Americans, we say "In God we trust." Now, every American should know what is God, what is trust. This is propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government must come forward to patronize this. This is my proposition. So you write articles, you are theologicians. The America must rise up to the occasion. They have pledged themselves, "In God we trust." Every human nation or every human being should be like that. In God they must trust. So America, especially taken up the slogan as part of Constitution. Now there should be regular educational program, that every child, every man, every woman will trust in God. And this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So? Am I wrong in my arguments?

Devotee: No, correct.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you take it seriously, you American boys?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: They became disgusted with the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It's simply, we can say, what is called? Stereotype, the church. Just like you said they want more pay. Payment... They have no knowledge, so what is the use of taking advice from such rascals? What is the use? But here it is not like that. We know the science of God. We know who is God. It is not a vague thing. Now you try to understand. Let there be educational institution. America has got so many universities. Let there be a department. There is already a religious department. So let the students learn the science of God. We have got so many books. Why they will not? They are actually appreciating. So this should be introduced in the university, in colleges, in schools. Why they should neglect such a, such an important scientific knowledge?

Devotee (1): When we try to introduce it sometimes, they very often say that it is sectarian.

Prabhupāda: Not sectarian. You do not know. Why do you say sectarian? How it is sectarian?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But these rascals, they won't accept it, although it is fact. Although it is fact. But they will not accept it. Therefore preaching is required, education required, to bring him into sense. This is fact. This portion of the ocean does not belong to any nation or any person; it belongs to God. This moon belongs to God, the sky belongs to God. But they're thinking, "It is mine." And therefore there is trouble. Just like government. The Senate is there, so they sit down together, and if there is any problem they discuss together to find out the solution. Similarly, they have got this United Nation. Why do they not consider, "First of all let us settle to whom this planet belongs"?

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: They're United Nation, first of all let us settle. They are fighting: "I'm Arabian," "I'm Indian," "I'm American," "I'm Englishman..." "All right, let us settle actually to whom this planet belongs." They cannot do that, because all of them are thieves. None of them will agree that it belongs to God. The real fact, that they will not agree. Then how there can be peace? Because they're all cheaters. They want to cheat God. God's property, they're claiming "ours." All thieves and rogues, so how there can be any settlement? There cannot be any settlement.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Nobody may vote but we must go on preaching. That I have already explained, some of the university. The whole country is illiterate. Does it mean university should be stopped? University must be there. One who is fortunate will come and take education. It is not an argument that "People are illiterate. They don't care for it. Therefore let the university be closed." This is no argument.

Yaśomatīnandana: Gradually they will develop attraction.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have to work. That is preaching. You don't think preaching is so easy going. Eating, sleeping, and sometimes chanting, "Haribol," that's all. That is not preaching. We must be ready to implant Kṛṣṇa consciousness ideas, throughout the whole world.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Should also this be the responsibility of the government to protect people from having to take dog body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the government's duty, that the citizens may not degrade. That is government's duty. Now, just like a father thinks, "Now, these children have come under my protection. I must see they get proper education and make advancement of life." It is the father's duty. And if the father thinks, "Let him go to hell." That's all. Nowadays fathers are doing like that. That is not father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that the citizen must make progress. But they do not know what is means by progress, what is the aim of life. They do not know. They are demonic. How they will guide? They think, like cats and dogs, "If you get fatty and you can eat more, then your life is successful." Their thinking is very poor.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, sometimes the serpents are tamed.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. But still, they are dangerous. That is said by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. The serpent is so dangerous. That, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. The serpent is so dangerous that even one imagines there is a serpent, he is, becomes afraid. You see? When Mahārāja Pratāparudra wanted to see Him and Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and others requested, that "He is a devotee." "But I know that he is a devotee, but because he is king, therefore I cannot see him." He gave this encou..., "The serpent even by imagination is also fearful." He said like that. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, manina bhujitaḥ sarpa kim asau na bhayaṁkaraḥ. (?) A serpent... You know, sometimes they have got jewel. "So a serpent with jewel, does it mean that he is not fearful?" Even with jewel he is fearful. Therefore, the demon, even with high educational qualification, he is rascal. He is rascal, fearful.

Prajāpati: That high education is just like the jewel.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But still fearful.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So he was asking. Very intelligent boy, he was asking, "What is this? What is...?" So I also explained, "This man is going to marry." So in this way, after, "Father, you were married?" He asked me. So this nonsense question is there. He does not know, "Without marriage, how I am come into existence?" So these questions are like that, childish questions. It has no meaning. (break) ...the Vedic injunctions is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must approach guru. Guru means heavy, who knows perfectly. You must go there to learn. And actually it is happening. Why the children are sent to school? When he becomes educated, the same eyes, same hands, same legs, same body, but he becomes educated. What is the different between educated and not educated? Because he has heard from authorities. That's all. This is education. Without going to school, he is not considered to be educated. Why? Because he did not hear from the authorities. Therefore he is uneducated. Let him learn everything. He has got the eyes. He has got the senses. Why he is sent to school? Why? Tell me, why? He has got the eyes. Why he is sent to school for education?

Devotee: To hear from the authority.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Even while he's eating, he's still...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows how to do it. Therefore I was explaining the other day, that for eating, for sleeping, for having sex intercourse and to defend, there is no use of education. Everyone knows automatically. But at the present moment, the whole education is on this point. Real education, what is life, what is goal of life, they do not know. This is the point.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: We have all the theology then. This is theology.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You present Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in true perspective. Then it will be perfection of your education. The so-called theologicians, they cannot understand God. It is not possible. That is not the way, that "I put my theory." He does not understand his value first, that "What is the value of my theory? If I am imperfect, so what is the value of my theory?" He does not understand the first principle, and he puts theory. Another rascal, he is putting theory. So what is the value of these theories?

Nara-nārāyaṇa: Actually they are simply selling their theories. Whoever will buy it, they are selling it to.

Prabhupāda: Another rascal is buying. We are not buying. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam, spotless knowledge, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Amalam. Amalam means without any spot. (break) ...of God is given in the dictionary, "Supreme Being." That is very nice. Everywhere we see that on the top there is a supreme being, just like in your state, the president. So why not this big government, a Supreme Being? Where is the difficulty? Without something supreme, controller, things cannot go nicely.