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Educated (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsato dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has got all the good qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇaiḥ: "All good qualities can be manifest." And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: "And one who is not devotee, he has no good qualities." "Why? He is so educated." No, mano-rathena: "He is hovering over the mind." Asāto dhāvato bahiḥ: "He will stick to this asat." But the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gamaya. He cannot go to the real platform of life. Asato bahiḥ. They do not understand that this godless civilization is the root cause of all calamities in the world. (Hindi) Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. The Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Twenty-four hours you have to do that. But where is twenty-four hours? You will not twenty-four minutes.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Now, the laws and legislative assembly there are, and there is punishment, there is court—everything there is. That we were discussing last night, that where is the honest men? Why? In spite of laws, legislative assembly, court and everything, the wholesale rogues and dishonest. Then what is the use of this? What is your answer? Why you are checked on the airport just like a culprit, criminal? They cannot trust even a gentleman, although he is educated, may be holding very good office, but still, he is not to be trusted. So this is the result of your so-called function, that there is no honest man throughout the whole world. Then, what is the use of such education? And what is the use of their living? Let them die. No hospital for them.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nitāicānda is very good.

Prabhupāda: Nitāicānda plus somebody very educated should be there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who do we have like that that speaks Bengali?

Bhavānanda: Subhaga. Oh, they love Subhaga. He preaches in the temple at the book table during the busy hours. So many people buy books, and all interested. He's very...

Prabhupāda: Subhaga. Subhaga make the chief of the reception. And Nitāicānda his assistant, and another, a foreigner.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nitāicānda is in charge of the building.

Bhavānanda: He has so much to do, anyway, Nitāicānda. Subhaga is best.

Prabhupāda: Subhaga and two foreigners.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is gradually. Gradually. If he cannot give up meat-eating, so, "All right, don't eat cows' flesh. You eat hogs. That's all." But the real purpose is to stop meat-eating. And that is also under restriction. "You can eat one goat. Sacrifice it before Goddess Kālī under such and such rules and regulation. Then you take one piece of meat at night." So any sensible man—"Why I should undergo such rules and regulation for eating a little piece of meat? Better give it up." That is the idea. It is not that encouraging him. What is the meaning of encouraging? He is already eating meat? Why śāstra should... The real way, nivṛtteḥ... Pravṛttir eṣāṁ bhūtānāṁ nivṛttes tu mahā-phalam. The pravṛtti, the inclination, is there. Now train him to give it up. That is wanted. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1), that "Tapasya is your business." Tapo divyam. The human life is for tapasya-athāto brahma jijñāsā—only discussion on Brahman, to understand Brahman, and tapasya. Therefore you find in India so many saintly persons, highly educated brāhmaṇas, high literature, everything.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Forty-five thousand years. (laughter) Who is therefore mūḍhas? Intelligent men can answer, understand everything, in a minute. And if he's a fool, rascal, even forty-five thousand years he cannot understand. We are giving the best service to the whole world, trying to make them educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Sudāmā: (break) ...very curious: "What is the power and mystery of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, how he is doing so many things but yet he does not appear like these others yogis who are..., like Satya Sai Baba who is making magic and..."

Prabhupāda: But why? Because they have no eyes. Has Satya Sai Baba so many properties all over the world? He is creating gold but has he got so many properties? One property like this? Huh? I started this business with forty rupees; now it is forty crores. Has this rascal has any property like this? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Cāṇakya is authority. Otherwise, why you have named "Cāṇakya Purī"? He's as good as Gandhi and other big, big men. So it is said, viśvāso naiva kartavyaṁ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca.(?)I am innocent. I am quoting authority.

Acyutānanda: Yes. Yes, you can say that is the statement of Cāṇakya. One foolish man... I was saying, "Some...," in my lectures, "some foolish scholar has written that because Kṛṣṇa is black, He is a scheduled caste." So there was a scheduled caste man in the audience who became educated. So he took offense. "Well, maybe Kṛṣṇa was the leader of the scheduled caste." So I said then, "that is the statement of some scholar. You cannot criticize me. I am quoting a scholar." The audience shouted him down too. (break) Śūdras and yavanas may become brāhmaṇas, but many of them don't.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Acyutānanda: So many born śūdras are śūdras, many times.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Acyutānanda: They're not educated.

Jayapatākā: Parvat.

Acyutānanda: Who is that?

Jayapatākā: The one that calls me "prabhu."

Acyutānanda: Parvat. Parvat, yes.

Prabhupāda: He has not such quandary. (break) ...he'll come with us, work with us.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The people become thieves and rogues, then how the economic development will be possible?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This they can see. There's been no progress since they became...

Prabhupāda: ...they should be, apart from religion, they should be educated to become truthful, to become merciful, to..., like these ordinary things. They should be educated.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they're not being taught.

Prabhupāda: So where is the...? What is the meaning of secular? Does it mean... Secularism means roguism? (break)

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Vulgar.

Dayānanda: Their whole attitude is vulgar also, not just language but whole... Yeah. And like even in Europe before, a gentleman was a gentleman. They were... I think. And even in America before, they had some good qualities. But now the so-called gentlemen or educated men, they're very vulgar.

Hṛdayānanda: Vicious.

Dayānanda: Becoming more and more gross.

Prabhupāda: Varṇa-saṅkara.

Dayānanda: Yes. Like that.

Prabhupāda: Therefore their sons are hippies.

Dayānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: There can be a model of that temple in every temple all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: So then people can... Then advertising, "Come here."

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Actually it will be an unique thing in the world. There is no such thing all over the world. That we shall do. And not only simply showing museum, but educating people to that idea.

Hṛdayānanda: Preaching.

Prabhupāda: Right. With factual knowledge, books, not fictitious. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this thing you have to convince them. Why should you allow them to remain a rascal? Now the sun is rising. Does it mean all of a sudden a sun is created? So these are the examples. You have to preach like that. Simply believe your eyes? You believe also there was no sun; now it is sun. That means all of a sudden a sun became created. See the intelligent persons and convince them. Yad yad ācārati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). Pick up the best man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He picked up the best men, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. So His movement became successful. Sanātana Gosvāmī was not an ordinary man. Very educated, learned brāhmaṇa and minister, Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up. Similarly Rūpa Gosvāmī, similarly Jīva Gosvāmī. Picked up means by His preaching they became converted. So similarly pick up a person like Sanātana Gosvāmī, intelligent, in position, and try to convince him. Why he will not be convinced, if he's a human being? This is not religion. That I am breathing, what is this breathing? Eh? What is the breathing?

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to cover their ignorance by this theory, "chance." They want to become very intelligent by chance. That is their.... That is not the fact. For intelligence you have to learn from a superior person. It cannot be done by chance. Who has become learned scholar by chance? There is none.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because that is śūdra philosophy, this chance philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone has to work very hard, pass examination, and then he becomes an educated man. Where is by chance one has become learned?

Pañca-draviḍa: What about two people born in the same circumstance? Each has equal education and equal background, but one becomes rich and one remains poor. That's chance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fate. Fate is the cause, destiny. Otherwise, so many people are working hard. Why not everyone is becoming rich by chance? Kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. This is the instruction in the Bhāgavatam. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. There are two things—happiness and distress—and they are being controlled by the time. You have infected some disease. In time, it will come out, manifested, and the doctor say, "Oh, you infected this disease. Take this injection." The time factor. It.... You have to wait to see the result. It is not chance. As soon as you do something, immediately the reaction begins. But you do not see the result immediately, but wait and you'll find. Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (1): That's a great mercy for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is mercy. When they excuse a saintly person, that is, that is their great mercy. Now, according to Vedic law, a saintly person is never subjected to any law. He's paramahaṁsa. He's never.... Rather, the order is he must be given all help that he wants. That is the Vedic civilization. And brahmacārī, sannyāsīs, they should be treated as children at home, so that wherever they go, they will be treated just like children: "Oh, he's my son. He's my dependent." They will treat like that. And they also go to every home: "Mother, give me some food." So he's children, as the child asks from the mother, "Give me some food." This is system. This is civilization. And M.A., Ph.D., and searching after woman, how to induce her, and being searched out in the airport, whether he's a rogue—what is this education? We don't want this education. (break) ...student life we have seen practically, one big professor, Dr. Brajendranatha Śrī. So he had another Ph.D. student, and that student kidnapped his daughter and went away. He was so educated that kidnapped his teacher's or the master's daughter and went away. . What is that word? Kāmātura.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?

Prabhupāda: No. How they can have standard? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. How they can have good standard? Because they are atheists, godless, there cannot be. That is the test. As soon as he is godless, he's rascal. Never mind M.A., Ph.D. That's all. This is our conclusion. As soon as you know that "Here is a godless atheist," he is rascal. Bas, finished. Exactly like.... Suppose you are in India, and if you think, "No, there is no government. It is going on automatically," then you are rascal, immediately. Is it very sane man, sane man's statement, statement, that "No, no, there is no God. It is going on"? So atheist means rascal. Such a nice arrangement is going on, exactly at 6:15 the sun is there, and "There is no government. There is no God." Just see how rascaldom. And then what it is? "By chance." And he is scientist. We have to consider them educated scientists? Are we going to be fooled like that? "There is no government." "There is no father." How the child came? "There is no father." Just see. A woman has got a child. And if somebody says, "Yes, she has got child, but there is no need of a father," is that sane man's proposal? Nature is producing, and nature is prakṛti, but where is the puruṣa? Prakṛti-puruṣa. So without puruṣa, how prakṛti can produce? That puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam, Kṛṣṇa.... Is that all right?

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is the value? If you are calling him to take education from the school, that means he is accepting authority. Let him be educated at home. Why the college?

Devotee: But in the classrooms, they simply...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, first of all, the principle? What is this principle?

Rāmeśvara: To train him in the methods of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means authority. You are teaching him to accept the authority. And you are teaching against authority. Everything contradictory. One side, contraceptive; one side, illicit sex. And the.... But Vedic civilization says, "All right, as soon as woman is widow, let her remain as a saintly woman—no more sex." But "No, you can marry and you can have sex hundred times daily, but use contraceptive." Is that civilization? To train one woman not to have any more sex, this is also contraceptive. And another way that "You can have sex any amount, as many times as you like. Take this contraceptive." Whose civilization better? And you call him to be trained up to accept authority and teach him, "Don't accept any authority." Is that education? Nonsense.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Just like you are being educated. Not that cent percent mark you are getting, but because you are trying to be educated, so that is also good. That is also good.

Devotee(1): Therefore the association is most important.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very important, so that if I commit some mistake, I'll regret: "Oh, my other associate, he is not coming to act in that..." That chance he'll get.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So we pay a little attention to Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa gives us a lot of attention.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: You can ask them. I do not know.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: All classes. Many educated people as well as people from all different classes, all racial backgrounds.

Prabhupāda: No, no, in America who is uneducated?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, all coming from very nice families, the majority, education. Many, many of them coming from very wealthy families.

Prabhupāda: Now, if you should take good family means wealthy family, then America, there is no poor family. There is no question of poverty. So how do you distinguish that he's coming from good family, he's coming from bad family? Poverty is unknown to them. Nobody is uneducated. Then how you distinguish who is bad and who is good? Everyone is good—unless he voluntarily becomes bad, hippie. Otherwise everyone is coming from very good family, rich family, educated family.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (8): But do the devotees contribute in any way?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are contributing their life. We don't get any such life-sacrificing Indians. These educated boys, rich men's son, they have sacrificed everything for me. And where is Indian?

Reporter (8): Swamiji, do you have certain farms also in America, gośālā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only one, many.

Reporter (8): What else do you have over there besides gurukula schools and things?

Prabhupāda: We produce our own milk. In New Vrindaban we are producing.... You are Nava Bharata Times? You are, any of you, Nava Bharata Times? Is there any representative, Nava...? No. Your representative went to New Vrindaban, and he published in the November 1974, I think.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now, we have studied this South Africa. They like our movement. They are purchasing books. That is very good sign. Is it not? They are purchasing? Who are purchasing books? Educated circle?

Devotee (1): Colleges.

Prabhupāda: College. That is.... College, universities, that is educated.... So I was surprised when, after my meeting, they purchased books, because these South African white men, they do not like very much Indians. Is it not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: But still, they like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is very good sign.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't mention any. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is impartial. And actually, if they test that "Whether this man I am voting, he is free from all these sinful activities?" Then, you see, the whole face of the Indian government will change.

Dr. Patel: Sir, I may tell you, the adults.... That change is meant for the educated, cultured, and...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't name that educated, cultured. You simply say that "You vote for this person."

Dr. Patel: People vote for five-rupee notes. They don't vote anything else.

Prabhupāda: Then they will suffer. Then don't, don't complain. Don't complain.

Dr. Patel: I was a political worker myself and a member of the ruling party and a member of the assembly. I know how they collect votes.

Prabhupāda: If you.... For five rupees if you sacrifice your sacred right, then how can you expect good government?

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: When Mr. Ford comes willing, back on...? Is he coming back again?

Prabhupāda: No, there are many. There are many. Now, you see, near Delhi there is Modi Nagar. That Mr. Modi was not very educated man, but how he has developed?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He is employing something like fifty thousand people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Mr. Modi near Delhi.

Dr. Patel: Modinagarawala.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is employing fifty thousand people, without any education.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We had a very big program in Modinagara.

Prabhupāda: His wife received us very nicely.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So many Ph.D.'s, they are loitering. Therefore they become Communists and this, what is called? Naxalites. Educated young boys, they have no job.

Dr. Patel: These two parts of India... (Hindi) Bengal and Kerala, they're highly educated communities. They are the, I mean, advanced Communists also, both the countries. In Gujarat there is no communism, though we are educated. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Just like assassin is aside.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And otherwise you will find Caitanya and other, so many big, big men. Rabindranath Tagore, Surendranath Bannerjee, Vivekananda, and so on, so on. (Hindi) Aurobindo was condemned to death.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is the soul, or consciousness. The same thing, the pilot. The pilot may be a small man, and the airship may be very gigantic. You can make still more. But the pilot is the same. So the body may be elephant or a small ant, but the pilot is the same. That is real understanding.

Mike Barron: Just getting off that, can I ask why you've come to Australia again?

Prabhupāda: I have already explained that, that this is my mission, to educate people to understand himself. They are under this misconception that "Every one of us, we are this body." That is misconception. You must know who is within the body. That is real education.

Mike Barron: And how long.... You'll continue this until...

Prabhupāda: Well...

Mike Barron: ...until you die.

Prabhupāda: The knowledge is already there in the Vedic literature, but there was no discussion, at least in the Western countries. So I am trying to.... We have got so many books, eighty-four books, writing on this science. (aside:) Show him our books. They are being accepted by high learned circle. (break) ...written not jokingly. It is a great science.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Well, we are progressing very slow because the subject matter is so difficult that even big, big scientists, big, big professors, they are puzzled. So you cannot expect. But those who are fortunate and.... They are understanding. So this progress, we cannot expect a mass people will understand immediately, but if one person understands, he can act very tremendously to educate the people on this matter. Just like the example is that to illuminate the sky it does not require millions of stars. One moon is sufficient.

Mike Barron: What is the biggest obstacle for people to overcome?

Prabhupāda: Their dullness. They are not being educated, but they are putting into the darkness of ignorance more and more. That is going on in the name of education.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So if, if.... At least they understand something about it. Otherwise how they are sticking to this movement? They are intelligent boys. They are coming from respectable family, educated. Why they should go after me unless they have got something? That you can ask them. There are so many. All of them are young men.

Carol Jarvis: They're forced to lead a very spartan way of life, though, aren't they? Why is this necessary?

Prabhupāda: If you want real happiness.... That I have already explained. Real happiness—to become free from the natural material laws, birth, death, old age and disease. This is real happiness. Suppose you are arranging for your happiness, and all of a sudden death comes. Then where is happiness? So how you can check? So the real impediment of our happiness is stated: birth, death, old age and disease. So if you want real happiness, then you have to first of all make arrangement that you'll not die or you'll not take birth, you'll not become old, you'll not be diseased. Just like insurance. They make insurance of life. So where is your insurance for these things? You do not want to die, but you are forced to die. Where is insurance? This is insurance, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: First World War, yes. That was futile. Again you have started United Nation. Where is the benefit? There cannot be benefit. If you keep the dogs as dog, you bring them, "You Australian dog, come here, and American dog, come here, and European dog, come here. Live peacefully," will they live peacefully? So if you keep the human society as cats and dogs, how can you expect peace? They must be human being. Then there will be peace. So this is the training how to make human being, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now these boys, they are also Europeans, Americans. They are coming from respectable, very educated.... They'll never ask for a chair. "Sit down. That's all." The necessities of life, artificial necessities, reduced, and time is saved for understanding the value of life. Without motorcar your life will not be spoiled. You can walk. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness your life is spoiled. So how.... We recommend that "First of all understand yourself." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is your prime business. And so far necessities of body, that can be done according to the circumstances. So if we simply waste our time for increasing unnecessary necessities of life and do not try to understand the value of life, then we remain animal.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: And it's not necessary to live a temple life.

Prabhupāda: No, temple life is a.... Just like if you go to school.... Without school you can be educated. It is not that we..., unless you go to school you can be educated. But if you go to school you get greater facilities. And that is the way. Just like in our country Rabindranath Tagore, he never went to school. You have heard the name of Rabindranath Tagore?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Rabindranath Tagore.

Prabhupāda: Tagore.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Mr. Dixon: Is it true that there are more young people now in the world that are giving more serious thought to what life is really all about?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they should. Because they are being educated, they are experiencing the faults of their fathers and grandfathers.

Mr. Dixon: And they're able to tell that?

Prabhupāda: So we are telling this is the aim. You take. And therefore more response from the younger section. All our devotees, they are just like my grandchildren. Their fathers may be like my children. But they are responsive.

Mr. Dixon: How do you spend a day?

Prabhupāda: Day?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How do we.... What do we do during the day? What are our activities?

Prabhupāda: We have got activities day and night, but because the body is there, we have to eat, but we eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. And naturally we go to sleep, to take some rest. Otherwise we are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business. We have no other business. So I go in the morning for little morning walk because the body, whole day if I sit down, it may be jammed. Therefore, for body's sake, I go for little walking. And then, whole day and night, I am sitting here, either chanting or writing books or talking with you, giving them direction. That's all. We have no other business than Kṛṣṇa's business. That is the peculiarity of this movement.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying. Similarly, we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body, we are not dying. We remain. But we simply accept another body. So this is a great botheration. But people are in ignorance. They're thinking that after death there is no life. This ignorance is a great, I mean to say, difficult position. So we are trying to educate them how to get out of this entanglement of cycle, birth and death. And therefore there are so many books on this subject matter. It is a very serious movement. It is not compared to the so many rascal movements. So if you are serious, you can study our books, you can try to understand the philosophy, science; then the whole human society will be benefited.

Room Conversation -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: He's not living? He's dead?

Prabhupāda: No, he's dead means now he's old man. He's about my age or little older than me. Now his skin has become slackened and body is not so strong to dance. It requires exercise. Therefore he's retired, I think, maybe dead. But I don't hear his name. He was more or less known in Europe as Shankar. But he was so popular that one my doctor friend.... He was educated in London, a medical officer of Allahabad. So he told me that "I saw that in Paris, Udar Shankar's dancing was advertised, and hundreds and thousands of people from England going to Paris, crossing the Channel to see him dance." He showed me. He's so popular. And now nobody asks for him. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Karnataka. Karnataka province, educated province, Karnataka, South India, Karnataka, very educated. So he has immediately ordered thirty sets of books in different libraries. He has appreciated so much.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The professors in Bombay, some of them are already reviewing Prabhupāda's books very favorably.

Prabhupāda: So you just touch the topmost men. But if, somehow or other, if you see some of the topmost men of the China, "You kindly read our books at your leisure."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can't approach those men.

Prabhupāda: Then give it up. If it is too difficult, don't waste time.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Do you have programs developed to educate mankind towards this God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Concrete education. Not fictitious. Concrete.

Reporter: How will you.... How would you get man to become aware of the situation so he could desire, even desire unconsciously?

Prabhupāda: There is a very simply fact. It you simply understand that one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, there it is stated that

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
(BG 14.4)

Very simply thing. Just like the art of the material nature. Everything is coming out of the material nature, beginning from the grass to the highest intellectual human being or more than that. Wherefrom they are coming? From this material nature: ether, earth, water, fire. This element, some material nature.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: No questions about this assignment.

Devotee (1): You asked earlier about our program for educating society, are you still interested in this?

Prabhupāda: This education is all explained.

Devotee (2): I think he was interested also techniques by which we go about educating society. We have some techniques which...

Prabhupāda: Technical knowledge is not education.

Devotee (2): No, but I mean, as far as our books are.... We have our techniques for educating society.

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Rāmeśvara: Our program is to distribute the books of the Vedas with our spiritual master's philosophical commentaries. We already discussed a little bit before we came.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One good thing is that there is generally a growing movement amongst American people, and I don't know about other countries, for vegetarianism. People are becoming more and more.... I think it is due to our books, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Book distribution, we are educating the people in that way.

Prabhupāda: Actually, we are educating; that's a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many vegetarian societies now.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...they say, Santa Monica?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is cleaner there.

Rāmeśvara: Yesterday you suggested that I send groups of brahmacāriṇīs to that farm in Oregon where Yamunā-mātājī is staying, but I was thinking that, actually, she is a very, very wonderful preacher, and if she can visit our temples more often, then she can.... In other words, it's more expensive and difficult to send so many people to her...

Prabhupāda: So, do that.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Dr. Judah got a copy of one such letter, and he mailed it to Jayādvaita, so I've seen it. Very, very blasphemous, poisonous, but it was written by a very educated person. I could tell by the style of writing that the person who wrote that letter was very literate.

Prabhupāda: He did not disclose his name?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, his name and address.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That person gave his name and address, who wrote that letter?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So we cannot bring it to the court?

Rāmeśvara: Perhaps. I'll see. But this is an example.

Prabhupāda: No, I know that.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's representative means the representative says the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says "Surrender unto Me," and the representative says "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." And because he delivers the real knowledge, he's as good as Kṛṣṇa. Therefore sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. The spiritual master may appear to be just like a common man, but he is to be respected as God, because he delivers the real message of God. That is the qualification of spiritual master. He does not manufacture anything. That is very easy. If I carry your message and educate people in that way, then there is no difficulty for me. Everything is there. Why shall I go to manufacture something imperfect? The perfect thing is already there. Simply I have to carry. A post peon—the money order is there, he has to simply carry and deliver to the person. And if he gets at time of need, he thanks the peon, "Oh, you have saved my life." It is like that. The message is already there. You have to simply deliver to the suffering humanity. Then he'll be relieved. And because he delivers the real reality, therefore he's worshiped as God. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Ācāryaṁ māṁ hi vijānīyāt. Kṛṣṇa also says ācārya is..., "I am ācārya." Because when there is, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69).

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Anything material is asat; it will not stay, either these trees or this land or this world or this country or this, anything, asat. So asad-grahāt, on account of accepting things which are asat, not permanent, they are always full of anxiety. Just see how nicely explained, why one is full of anxiety. The reason is, he has accepted something which will not stay, endure, and he has accepted: "This is all in all. My country is all in all. My family is all in all. This body, all in all." But it will not stay. That's a practical fact. But they are sticking to these things. Deha-pātra-kalatrādiṣu ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api. There is another verse where this word is used, asat. Everyone is thinking, "I am secure. I am born in a very good nation, state. My body is very strong. My family members are very nice, well-educated. I have got good bank balance, and I have got respectable position," so on, so on. He is thinking, "These things will save me." This world is struggle for existence, and when there is struggle, there are some soldiers. So ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api. One is thinking that "These are my soldiers. I'll own victory in the struggle for existence." But pramattaḥ tasya nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. But he's so mad, he knows that these things will be vanquished, and still, he does not see to it. Paśyann api na paśyati. Therefore his anxiety. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is, this version, sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt: "On account of accepting nonpermanent things as permanent, therefore he's full of anxiety."

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: These church fathers that we've just done on the philosophy book, they are simply speculating about what was in the original Bible.

Prabhupāda: No clear conception, scientific idea. Therefore educated persons, they are not interested. "God, give us daily bread." They will say, "Why we shall go to church for begging bread? We can manufacture it, large quantity." (laughs) Why they should go? Formality: "God, give us our daily bread." "Just open a big factory and eat as much bread as we like. Why should we go to God?" (break) ...Jawaharlal Nehru, he took this view, that "For economic development why should you go to the temple, ask this demigod, that demigod, 'Give me this. Give me this'? Develop industry and get money to enjoy." That is his.... (break)...description of God in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). This is God, the origin of everything. Who is there who can challenge this explanation, "The origin of everything"? Now, what is that origin? Whether it is matter or sentient? No. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś ca abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He knows everything. Therefore He's a person.

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda often says that no one can be happy without knowledge. It's not possible to be fully happy without knowledge. People suffer due to lack of knowledge. So if this knowledge about this living force is not taught to the people, then they'll continue to suffer and be in anxiety, suffer diseases, fight among themselves, quarrel. There'll always be some misery as long as there is this general lack of knowledge about the spiritual element, or the living force. So in that sense we feel a great compassion and a great, great responsibility to educate as many people as possible about the spiritual science of the soul and about Kṛṣṇa, or God. That's the purpose of our mission, to relieve people from their miseries and make them truly happy.

Interviewer: If they're interested.

Prabhupāda: Interested or not interested. Child is not interested for education. But it is the duty of the father to make him educated, sometimes punish him. So a child may be foolish, but how the parents can be foolish? It is not that because the human society is not interested, this should be stopped. No.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why not go to New Vrindaban? That they will not do.

Rāmeśvara: There is no training how to live in New Vrindaban. They are educated only to live in the cities and work like mūḍhas. Even now.... One of the biggest problems that they're predicting is unemployment. They cannot...

Prabhupāda: Yes. In America it has begun, what to speak of other countries.

Hṛdayānanda: Worse in other countries.

Rāmeśvara: Today there are many articles in the papers that college students graduate and cannot find any jobs, so their degree is useless.

Prabhupāda: This.... This was the problem in India, and now it is also in America. (break)

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well, you are talking something extraordinary. Everyone has got some ambition, and he wants to do it, and death, disease, old age, these are impediments. That is the point. No one wants to die premature death. Family man, a family man wants to see that his sons are properly educated or they are well-placed, so on, so on, so many things. And if all of a sudden death comes, he becomes sorry, that "I could not finish my business." Therefore death is impediment.

Richard: You were widely respected in India before you came to the United States?

Prabhupāda: Why bring that question? First of all, let us finish this question.

Richard: No, no, I'm getting to it. Ah, if you had died before you had come to the United States, would that have been a tragedy?

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, that would have been a big tragedy for all of us. That is premature. That's the example Prabhupāda is giving. If a man wants to educate his sons, but he dies before they can be educated, then, to him, that is a premature death. So therefore he does not want that. In fact he's afraid: "Please, I don't want to die before I see my sons educated." So that is a fear of death.

Prabhupāda: Therefore death is an obstacle. That is the point.

Rāmeśvara: An obstacle to the goals of his life.

Prabhupāda: One who has no responsibility, that is another thing. But a responsible man wants to finish the responsibility, and if death comes before that, that's an obstacle.

Richard: Um hm. Okay. Ah, how about smaller obstacles in life, though, than death? I mean this...

Prabhupāda: This is the major obstacles, and subordinate to these obstacles there are hundreds and millions of obstacles.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, physically not. Spiritually, you are always alive. This point is to be understood. The death taking place only of the physical body. That you have to understand.

Richard: Right, but I have never been aware of any proof...

Prabhupāda: That is education. You are not aware because you are not educated.

Richard: Perhaps, but I have never read of anyone else actually proving that there is a spiritual afterlife.

Prabhupāda: Here is the proof, he is giving proof. Therefore I said it requires little brain. He's giving proof.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Idea of God, and what to speak of faith in God, or trust in God.

Jackie Vaughn: It's true. Very little faith. "In God We Trust," your original statement.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda wrote one letter to the secretary of the President explaining that you write on your bills "In God We Trust," but who is it that knows about God? So he was asking if it was possible for the government, they could give us some aid and we would educate. We can educate the people.

Prabhupāda: No, I did not ask for any aid.

Hari-śauri: Oh. If they would...

Prabhupāda: You can get the copy. I never asked for any aid.

Hari-śauri: No, I didn't mean monetary or anything like that. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized. We may not know it, but we shall be victimized. That is the life of ignorance. A child does not know that if he touches the fire it will burn and it will cause some disease, some sore. He does not know. But he, somehow or other, if he touches fire, these things will come. This is the life of ignorance. You do something, you do not know what is the effect. But the effect will come, and you'll have to suffer. You know or not know, it doesn't matter. That is ignorance. Life of darkness. The Christian theologicians, they say that "Why shall I suffer for my...?" They do not believe in the karma, fruitive activity. But that means ignorance. They have no sufficient knowledge. Karma is there and effect is there, but they do not know it. Poor fund of knowledge. Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically. So advanced Westerners, they are now educated in science philosophy, they are not attracted with these dogmatic views.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Daughter is also son. Son and daughter are the same position. If they are not educated, they become burden. Apaṇḍita, means not educated. Then they become burden, simply eyesore. That is another place he states: varam eko guṇī putro na ca mūrkha-śatair api. Ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. What is the use of such children, of son, who is neither a devotee nor a learned man? So, kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁ vā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. Just like blind eyes. What is the use of it? It is simply pains giving. You have got eyes, but if it is diseased, cataract or something, so what is the use of possessing these eyes? Sometimes it becomes so painful that the doctors, they pluck out. You know that? They get out the eyes completely, and decorate with a false eye. This is very delicate place. Even a small grain enters, it gives so much trouble. So if the eye itself is diseased, it is very, very painful. Therefore sometimes he plucks out. Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁ vā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: And fell and flew away. How quickly they can take. Everyone knows his business. That intelligence there everywhere. Āhāra nidrā bhayam maithunī, for these things, how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex and how to defend, everyone knows. You do not require to educate them. Only they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is only possible by the human beings. Otherwise, other necessities of bodily, everyone knows. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Every morning, this place should be washed with water. Then it will be very nice. Then we can sit down and chant all day and night, Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong there? Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Haridāsa Ṭhākura was doing that. But don't imitate. But I mean to say, if you do that, where is the problem? (break) ...I think you can acquire some land through the government for agriculture and cow protection. There are so many, so much vacant land. I think they will accept community proposal. Sometimes invite some important government officials; let them see what you are doing.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say culture, not training.

Stansky: As a matter of fact, even among the educated classes in the United States, there is no culture. There are no cultural roots.

Prabhupāda: No, no culture. There is no culture. There is no standard social life. Simply hodgepodge. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only hope to bring everything in proper order. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. So America is the leading nation of the world. If you work on the principle of Bhagavad-gītā and train up your people, it will be ideal state and example for the whole world. At least a certain section of the American population should be ideal. That will also do. Not that..., we cannot expect cent percent will take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not needed. But if there is one section of the people ideal, that will be followed. We want to create that section, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Very good idea, yes. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). The nature is if we get better engagement, we give up inferior engagement. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. So this will be an example. You are a Roman priest. You are educated, learned scholar also. So when you come to this movement, you do not come here by sentiment or by whims. You consider, then you have come.

Stansky: This is what I wanted to say, that I'm not here because of sentiment. I'm here for very, very sound reasons, and I want to explain the reasons.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are presenting these books, that we are not a so-called sect of whimsical faith. It is based on science and authorities. Recently we have got report that our books have been taken in Hamburg University. You know Hamburg University?

Stansky: Yes.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Everyone's body is temporary, either human body or cat's body, dog's body. But the human body is important because in the human body we have developed consciousness by which we can understand what is God. The cats and dogs, they cannot, they haven't got that developed consciousness. Therefore if we do not use this developed consciousness for understanding God and our relationship with Him, then we are no better than cats and dogs. Cats and dogs cannot be educated about God, but a human being can be educated. That is the distinction between animals and man. But modern education is keeping them in ignorance about God, so they are no better than cats and dogs. And how can you bring peace among cats and dogs? Can you bring in peace calling all the dogs of your city and sit down peacefully? No, that is not possible. So if we keep our citizens like cats and dogs, then how we can expect peace?

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, it is the need of the human society. There is no alternative. In the Vedic mantra it is said, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must accept this. Otherwise, his human life is spoiled. If you simply trained up to live like an animal, then it is a great harm to the human society.

George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Lekhaśravantī: Maybe it is. I'm not so educated in all these things.

Hari-śauri: I think it's Catholic.

Prabhupāda: So we shall have to go there? No.

Hari-śauri: It's very windy tonight, there is no sun.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Hari-śauri: You can look. Whatever you decide.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So that is mentioned in this book. So head means first-class intelligent. A class of men.

Kern: How about people who aren't first-class intelligence, people, as you mentioned, the foolish. What message...?

Prabhupāda: No, they should be trained up. The foolish man.... Just like a foolish child can be trained up to be very nicely educated to pass M.A. examination. Child is..., all children are foolish. That is accepted. But by training him, we can make him the first-class intelligent man.

Scheverman: Training and discipline is a very important aspect of your asceticism.

Prabhupāda: But that training is wanted at the present moment.

Scheverman: Yes, I think that, I would agree that the willingness of modern...

Prabhupāda: There's no training to qualify a person to become first class. There is no training.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: This is first class. Again repeat that.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness."

Prabhupāda: So why they should not be educated to become first-class men on this basis?

Scheverman: That's right. I would agree that that is a worthy and very important goal.

Prabhupāda: So where is that institution who is teaching these things?

Kern: He said that the monastery did not teach this. I don't know if you can generalize about all monasteries.

Prabhupāda: I don't say monastery. I'm speaking that this is the way of training. Even a third-class born or fourth-class born could become a first-class man. This training should be given. There must be an institution how to become peaceful, how to become truthful, how to become honest, how to become religious, how to become believer in God. Why not this institution? They have opened institutions how to learn to deal the hammer, technology. But if, in the society, there is no first-class man on this basis, then who will guide? If there is no brain, then who will guide the hand or the leg?

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: These foolish things are going on. They think the body, by some chemical and physical combination and electric power.... Although they have not been able to do so, but still they'll theorize like that. In this way the whole human society is going on in a deep, ignorant platform. So, that is the defect of the human society at the present moment, and we are trying to mend this defect by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. People are trying to understand. Our books are being very nicely received by the educated circle. We have got so many books. About, for the time, we have got over fifty-four books like this. This book is selling very nicely, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We have printed recent edition, 350,000 copies, that is finished. Again we are going to print 500,000 copies. So it is a great science meant for all human beings, not for the Hindus or the Muslim or the Christian. Science, mathematic, is meant for everyone. So it is spiritual science. Everyone should take advantage of it. Otherwise what was the use of my.... I have not come here to preach Hindu religion. Why you should take Hindu religion? You are already Christian. So what is use of replacing Christian religion to Hindu religion? We have no such distinction. We are not after increasing the number of Hindus; we are after making the human being perfect in knowledge. That is our aim.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: We cannot get many followers. Because everyone is under this impression, "I am this body." And to get him released from this conception is not so easy job. So we cannot expect many thousands and millions. Only selected fortunate people will understand it. But everyone can understand it. It is very simple thing. But the modern education has made them so dull brain, they cannot understand, neither do they try to understand. That is the difficulty. Matter, subject matter, is very simple thing. I am changing bodies, but in spite of my change of body, I am the spirit soul existing. This is the first understanding. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that I am not dead on account of my body being finished. My childhood body is finished, my boyhood body is finished, my youth-hood body is finished, but I am existing. I can remember that I was in such body, I was in such body, in such circumstances. When I was a child I was talking like this, I was jumping like this. But because that body is finished, I cannot do that. Now I have got a different body, I cannot jump like a child. This simple truth. But I know that I was jumping. That is not dream, that's a fact. But we are educated in such a foolish way that we cannot understand this simple truth. That has to be amended. Otherwise, there is no question of enlightenment in the human society.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: It is not possible that, because, at the present moment the number of educated persons, there are many. Many Ph.D.'s, D.H.C.'s but nobody understands it. You cannot expect a fair number of persons understanding it. It requires little higher brain. But even some percent of the population understands this philosophy, then there will be peace and prosperity. Not that everyone. Just like in my body, not that every part of my body is brain. But if the brain is in order, then other parts of the body will act nicely. The leg is not brain, but if the brain is in order, the leg will move nicely. The difficulty is there is no brain. So without brain, without head, when the body moves it is ghost. So it is ghostly civilization. All ghosts. There is a kind of ghost, perhaps you know, that without head. If a man is chopped of his head, and if he has got attraction, then he becomes a ghost without head. So at the present moment, all these so-called educated civilized men are ghosts without head. You now this, there is some ghosts without head?

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: Are you doing anything to try and contact people, the educated men, to...

Prabhupāda: Yes, many. Many educated. They are coming, trying to understand. But it requires little brain. So-called educated with dull brain cannot understand. So to make their brain finer to understand, we are prohibiting four things: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. If one refrains from these four prohibited things, then he can develop his brain to understand. And if one indulges in these four things, his brain will never be able to understand. Just like a dog having sexual intercourse on the street, so if I request the dog that "Don't do this, it is not very good," he'll never understand.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Uttamam. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You can directly understand whether you are going forward. These boys, they are educated, they are coming from rich family—at least, in rich nation. They are not fools and rascals. Unless they feel pratyakṣa avagamam, how they can stick? Just like you are hungry, you are eating. Unless you feel that you are eating, "Yes, I am getting strength, satisfying my appetite," then you can go on eating. It is like that. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You don't require to get certificate from others, that "I am eating. Whether I am satisfied?" You will feel. You don't require to take certificate from others. If you are actually eating, the result you will feel. That is pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyam. Other process, you do not know whether you are actually making progress or not. You are simply going to the ritualistic ceremonies, but whether you are actually going forward, that you cannot understand.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Worse, because animal has got some limit, but a human being who has developed consciousness, it is unlimited. Just like a thief is thief, but when an attorney-at-law is a thief, he's a very big thief. Huh?

Hari-śauri: When a man's educated to know the difference...

Prabhupāda: Ordinary thief and educated thief. In your country there are many lawyers. Their only business is how to cheat.

Hari-śauri: Every lawyer. Because they're trying to make money as well, only they're in a better position.

Prabhupāda: Big, big lawyers, through this real estatement. I have got bitter experience. People go to real estate man, he has got, say, five thousand dollars, and he wants to purchase one hundred thousand worth property. And they'll say, "Yes. We shall arrange." He will, in such a way, implicate, that he will take this five thousand dollars, and it will be divided amongst them. He will not give anything.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Just like our Vivekananda, he prescribed, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. The same thing—hospital. We kill all animals, and the hospital patient is given the meat for improvement of the health. But he does not know that this is not curing; he is become implicated in his karma. He has to be killed again, and eaten by the other animals. That he does not know. They do not accept karma-phala. Eh? The result of fruitive activities, (indistinct). But you will have to accept. There is no excuse. If you contaminate some disease, you must suffer from that disease. There is no excuse. So kriya(?) karma, you have to enjoy or suffer the result of karma. Karma-bandhana. But when you act for Kṛṣṇa, then you are mukta. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Karma must be there. If you work for Kṛṣṇa, then it is all right, and if you act for your sense gratification, then there is bondage. If you do not take education, if you remain fools and rascals, then you will suffer and create disturbance for others also. Therefore everyone must be educated, good citizens. It is good for him, good for others. (long pause) So you go on reading.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You believe or not believe. Just like this child, it is boy, he does not know anything. But I know, his mother knows, his father knows that he's going to be young man. If he says, "No, I am not going to be young man," that is childish. That is childish. But the father, mother, friends know that the boy is going to grow a young man, so he should be educated and he should be properly situated. That is the guardian's business. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. So that he doesn't know, that does not mean it is fact. So similarly, if rascals say, "I don't believe it," that's not a fact. He is a rascal, mad, he may say so, but that is not the fact. Karaṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgasya. Real fact is that he'll have to accept a body according to the quality of development.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: No. Materially speaking, they've tried so many ways to integrate the black with the whites here in America, but what has actually happened is, through those efforts, they've created a worse situation. By deliberately forcing black children and white children to go to the same schools... Sometimes they have what's called here bussing. It's a big major issue in politics now. Because they take all the black children and they take them to a white area just so that they can go to the school there. They actually take them further away from their local schools to another school, where it is all white children, so that they'll integrate and mix. So it's very controversial.

Prabhupāda: The parents won't like.

Hari-śauri: No. They say, because it's like an artificial.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is artificial. They are lowborn, there is no doubt about it. Otherwise, they are getting the all facilities, still they are wretched, poor, unclean, not educated, not gentle, everything. All bad behavior. (end)

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: they do not know what is the aim of life. They think that "they are not racing like dog; therefore, they are lazy." But they are busy, very busy, from the childhood. But they have no eyes to see what is, business means.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The second point is, in connection with this question, that there's a certain class of people in India—he describes them as being advanced, well-meaning and highly educated people in India today—that they're accusing Hinduism of inhibiting progress and he wants to know why is this.

Prabhupāda: That is explained. They do not know what is progress. The Vedic civilization is not interested in this so-called false progress. Just like from hut to skyscraper. They think this is progress. But the Vedic civilization thinks how much he is advanced in self-realization. Either he is in cottage or in skyscraper. But if he wastes his time to turn the huts into skyscrapers, then the whole life is finished. And next time he is going to be a dog. He does not know. That's all.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You started this explanation by saying, "But who will take it?" So is this to say that this religion that you're speaking of is not trying to be made acceptable to the masses, or is it only for those who will take it?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Unless you take it, where is question of religion? So that requires guidance. Just like to make a child educated, there is teacher required. Automatically how he can...? A child, now you give him a rubberstamp, "Now you are MA." Is he MA? He must be guided to pass the MA examination, then he'll be, he's MA. And "Because he is born in a certain family, he cannot be MA," that is not the fact. He can be MA provided the guidance is there, training is there. He can become MA. It doesn't matter that because he is lowborn he cannot become MA. No. He can become. The training is how to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Then he goes back to home, back to Godhead.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). So the whole Vedānta is description of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But because in this Kali-yuga people will not be able to study Vedānta nicely on account of lack of education, therefore Vyāsadeva personally wrote a commentary on the Vedānta. That commentary is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānam **. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra written by the author himself. The Vedānta-sūtra is also given by Vyāsadeva, and under the instruction of Nārada, his spiritual master... Get this light on. He wrote commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also begins with the same aphorism, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñāh sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). So actually, Vedānta-sūtra is explained by the author of the Vedānta in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So some rascals, without understanding Vedānta, without reading the commentary, natural commentary of the Vedānta-sūtra they are posing themselves as Vedantist. That means they are misguiding people. And because people are not educated, they're accepting these rascals as Vedantists. Actually, the so-called Vedantists, they are bluffers. They are not Vedantists. They do not know anything of the Vedānta. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, what is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that is real Vedānta. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsa. That is Vedānta-sutra-bhāṣya. Find out this verse.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's it. The aim is to please the Supreme through the spiritual master. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. This is the idea. Now, who is teaching this tapasya? Where is the school, college? Smoke: this is tapasya. And they are smoking before teacher. No offense. What you'll expect from such student? Animal civilization. This is not civilization. No tapasya, no brahmacārī. Tapo divyaṁ (SB 5.5.1). And tapasya begins from brahmacārī. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena (SB 6.1.13), to control. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dantaḥ. How to control senses, that is the beginning of life. Not ABCD learning and maybe your character may be less than an animal's, and you have got a degree of the university. You become a learned man. No. That is not accepted. Even from moral instruction, who is educated? That is described by Canakya Pandit.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: One religion is there already, that how to love God. This is one religion. Will the Christian say, "No. We don't want to love God"? Will the Christians say? Will the Mohammedans say, "No, no. We don't want to love God"? So religion means how to love God, and any religion which teaches how to love God, that is perfect. It doesn't matter whether he's Christian or Muslim or Hindu. It doesn't matter. You have to be educated to take your degree. It doesn't matter from which college you take degree. Similarly, religion means you have to learn how to love God. If you have no love for God, it is all useless. That is not religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Sākṣād, Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." You cannot surrender until you love. You are surrendered to me, I am also an Indian. Because you have love for me, therefore there is surrender. If I say that "You die," you'll die. Why? Because you love me. So when there will be surrender? Unless one loves God. Unless that platform is not there, that "I love you, I can sacrifice everything for you." That is on the the basic principle of love. Therefore that religion is perfect which teaches the followers how to love God. This is religious principle. So let everyone come to this platform, how to love God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching nothing, but training them how to love God, how they can sacrifice everything for God. So that is religion. Otherwise a bogus waste of time, simply following the ritualistic ceremonies. That is not religion. That is superfluous.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Darby: ...don't need education then to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are coming from Detroit? There are so many factories for four-wheel vehicles, and there is no factory to educate man to the right path. Perhaps... This is our little attempt, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to educate to the right path. We are not getting any help, either from the authority... In our own way, as far as possible, we are doing. When people will be educated they will be able to understand who is guru, who is not guru. We can say, but who is going to accept? We say always that they are all rascals, but who will accept our statement? And the state, (if) there had been a department to see what is the qualification of guru, then immediately they would have taken steps. Just like in Kṛṣṇa's time one man falsely presented himself as God. Immediately his head was cut off. Pauṇḍraka. So the state must be very strong to punish the miscreant. But there is no such state.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: That's due to too much sinful activity? Too much sinful activity that they can't think that there's some divine influence?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no education, fools. They're childish. A child is playing, he's enjoying, but he does not know that he has to take education, he has to grow up, he'll become a young man. Sometimes, if he's not educated, he'll suffer. He doesn't know. He's playing. That's all. The father says "My dear child, you read." "No, I like playing." Similarly, they are childish, foolish, without any responsibility. The animals are doing like that. Ṛṣabhadeva says "No, no, no. This life is not for this purpose." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Simply for sense gratification so much trouble, like hogs and dogs, this is not life. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvam. Just practice austerity to purify your existence. Your existence is not purified. You are put in a position.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: He doesn't want to be educated.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for becoming educated about Brahman. They will not take it. They want to remain animals, eating and sleeping, this animal life. Eat nicely, sleep nicely, have sex life nicely, defend nicely, that's all. Nicely, according to the standard of the body. Here in America, to have a conveyance nicely like a car like this, but in Indian village, a bullock cart is nicely. So this nicely and that nicely, according to the body. You have got this American body, this is nicely. He has got Indian body, that is nicely. But the feeling of niceness is there and here. We are having sex in a very nice apartment, decorated and so on, so on, and a dog is having sex on the street. But the pleasure of sex life is both the same. But we are thinking this is nice. But that is not the fact. The niceness, the feelings of niceness, is there and here.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Educational circles. Yes. In the education circles they are made fools. Education means he's a more fool, that's all. That is education. Mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. These fools and rascals, their actual knowledge is taken away, and they are coming out as educated. That we are protesting.

Hari-śauri: You once called them slaughterhouses. Slaughterhouses of education.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I have said, yes. Means whatever little education he has, that is also finished.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, by the mercy of His Divine Grace, if we can eliminate this theory then we can establish Kṛṣṇa consciousness on firm scientific basis.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is there. My order there.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, do it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What will be the technique to attract the Bengali educational class? To attract the Bengalis who are educated, what technique will be most effective?

Prabhupāda: This kīrtana and prasāda distribution.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it seems to me they are not so much interested. There was a man who came from Calcutta about two months ago, a Bengali, and in fact we were class friends in Calcutta when I was studying in Calcutta. And I discussed this problem with him, why so-called Bengali intellectuals are not attracted to our movement. And his answer was that the Caitanya movement was mostly for less intellectuals. For those who are educated, they want to be followers of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. In fact, they have a society called Vedanta Society. All the Bengalis get together...

Prabhupāda: And waste their time. The rascals waste their time.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is by the common people, ordinary people.

Prabhupāda: Because they are godless, they are uncommon. Educated Bengalis, they are spoiled.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. My feeling was they do not want to stop eating meat.

Prabhupāda: That is the only...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think that is the main reason.

Prabhupāda: And Vivekananda says whatever you like, you can eat.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, yata mata tata patha. They claim like this also. They follow like that.

Prabhupāda: Spoiled. Bengalis are spoiled.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our request is they should join and they should help us in spreading the mission.

Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). They are narādhamas. (end)

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: Therefore you are doing so with tremendous success.

Prabhupāda: Yes, people say that "Swamiji, you have done wonder, you have..." so on, so on, so on. But I do not know what is wonder. I know it is certain that I have not adulterated. That much I know. But I do not know how to play wonders. That I do not know. But I am certain that I have not adulterated what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. And I study everything by the crucial test of Kṛṣṇa's teaching. That's all. Kṛṣṇa says:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

As soon as we see that somebody is not Kṛṣṇa conscious or Kṛṣṇa's devotee, I take them immediately he's a duṣkṛtina, he's a mūḍha, he's a narādhama. "Oh, he's educated!" māyāyapahṛta-jñānā. Finish. Our study finish. We take it immediately that here is a māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's all. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because he denies to accept Kṛṣṇa, he must be within this group. Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. So people will be sorry or happy, we take them like that, that "Here is a duṣkṛtina," that's all.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is for this purpose. People may come, see God, then you can think of God. There is no difficulty. If you see something, you think of it. That is man-manā bhava. And if you regularly do it then you become a devotee. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. And when you come to the temple you worship Him. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Worshiping means give and take. Take blessings and offer little fruit or little flower. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. And if you cannot do anything, just offer your obeisances. Very simple thing. Even the child can perform it. But they will not do it. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Why does he not do it? That is explained. Because unless one is sinful, duṣkṛtina... He has got merit, but he's utilizing his merit for sinful activities. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious, but duṣkṛti, he has got merit, intelligence, but he's utilizing merit and intelligence for sinful activities. Therefore duṣkṛtina. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍha means rascal. He knows everything except God. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. The human life is meant for this purpose, to understand God. But he does not. Therefore we say narādhama, lowest of mankind. "But he is very educated." māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. He is so-called educated. Actually, he is not educated, because he does not know what is God. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. The basic principle is atheistic attitude. So these class of men will never offer obeisances or surrender to God.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas, that is already explained. If you cannot convince them, then avoid them. What can be done? Instead of wasting time, you better avoid them. Upekṣā. Useless. Because godless persons means duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. So it is the duty of the preacher to enlighten them also, to take some risk. But if one is unable to take risk, he may avoid them.

Devotee (1): When we go to universities, so often we run into very educated people, so-called educated people. Of course, they see us, they think that we are simply sentimentalists, that actually we are not..., don't really have knowledge of the universe. I've explained to these people, it's not necessarily that they are sinful so much as they are just miseducated.

Prabhupāda: No, educated means they have knowledge, but real knowledge is taken away. He does not know God. Just like a man is rich, but he has no food. It is like that. māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Therefore his knowledge is misused, duṣkṛtina. This knowledge, without any sense of God... Yes, come in. Sit down. (guests entering)

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Woman should be expert in cooking. That is their natural tendency. They should be educated how to cook nicely, how to please the husband, how to take care of the children. This is Vedic civilization. In the beginning a woman, childhood, she's trained up by the mother. Then as soon as she is married, formerly, child-marriage, so she's transferred to the care of mother-in-law. There she is trained up. Then she becomes very good housewife, takes care of household affairs, husband, children, and home becomes happy. What is this nonsense, divorce? There is no such thing in the Vedic civilization, divorce. You must accept whatever God has given you as husband or wife, you must. They had no thinking even, idea of divorce. One may not agree with the husband. That is natural. Sometimes we do not agree. But there is no question of divorce. When this divorce system was introduced?

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Hari-śauri: That was formerly the Western system, that the prospective son-in-law would be checked first to see whether he would be able to maintain the girl.

Prabhupāda: No, that is everywhere. But expectation, he is educated, he'll be able. The first thing is in due time, either the girl or the boy must be married, that is Indian system. In due time. Boy not exceeding twenty years or twenty-five years, at most, and girl not exceeding fifteen years, sixteen years, must be. Saṁskāra, this is one of the saṁskāras. Just like garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, this is also one saṁskāra, and marriage is also saṁskāra. Must be married. Daśa-vidha-saṁskāra, ten kinds of saṁskāras, out of which marriage is one of the saṁskāras. And kanyā-dāya. Kanyā-dāya, dāya means by law the father is bound to get his daughter married, by law. He cannot escape the responsibility. This is father's duty.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: I know that. Sometimes they are advised to do business. I know that. When, in our society, in the beginning, I started marriage, the father, mother, did not like it. Nowadays it has become custom, in India also, let the girl have many friends, but don't marry unless you find out a suitable man. Society degrades. Actually the Indian system is that when the girl is utmost twelve years, not more than that, ten to twelve years, she must be married. And the father would see, not necessarily in every case the boy is rich man or educated. If he's healthy and if he can work, he'll "Take charge." Then fortune, faith.

Rūpānuga: That is responsible.

Vṛṣākapi: How should we do this in our ISKCON society with these young girls?

Prabhupāda: Of course, we are not very much concerned with the social affairs, but still, if we can organize society, that will be very good. That will be peaceful.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should give up your philosophy and science. That "Because my scripture does not allow me to become educated, I shall remain a fool." (laughter) What is this?

Guest (2): A beautiful example is where a caterpillar will be, a cocoon will form over a caterpillar, and when the cocoon breaks, it's a butterfly.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, transmigration.

Guest (2): The living entity changed bodies.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is common sense. If they cannot understand this commonsense affair, then how they are educated?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education? That education is not.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: By nature it is very important movement. Therefore those who are intelligent, they are taking serious interest. We have got so many books. Perhaps you have seen. They are being accepted by the learned circle all over the world. University, colleges, professors, they are reading our books, placing standing order, and we have got relationship, especially with educated circle. They are trying to understand the importance of this movement.

Janice Johnson: I don't quite understand that in terms of my question about wearing street clothes and wigs instead of saffron robes and chanting and so forth.

Hari-śauri: She's pointing out that in recent years we've changed our dressing style while we're on the street selling books.

Prabhupāda: Dress? Dress is not important. Practically, as sannyāsī, brahmacārī, we dress with saffron cloth, but sometimes you do not like, but we have to do business with you; therefore we change. What can be done? "Necessity has no law."

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You can challenge that "You cannot do it."

Rūpānuga: You once said that because people are becoming more educated and scientific-minded, they are rejecting these religions. So similarly, because they are becoming more educated and scientific minded...

Prabhupāda: So-called educated, they are becoming fools.

Rūpānuga: But still, they are challenging. But they, for the same reason, will challenge the scientists in due time. Because they become..., if they become more scientific-minded, then they will challenge these statements that the scientists never verify. Constantly they are saying, but they never do anything.

Prabhupāda: Our challenge should be "Do it." If you cannot do it, then you give up your title, let it go to the chicken. Huh? What is the wrong there, if we say "Dr. Chicken," "Dr. Frog"?

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: (break) (in car) So whenever the Congress tries to pass a law to control the purchasing of guns, it is always defeated. They want the people to be able to have guns. They make a lot of money, also, selling guns.

Prabhupāda: The best thing is they should be educated to become gentlemen. Keep guns, but they may not improperly use them.

Rāmeśvara: When New York City had to start borrowing money from the banks, the banks became very powerful. They were able to control the city government and get many favors.

Prabhupāda: What is that favor?

Rāmeśvara: They get special contracts, concession rates, and they are able to get their men appointed to important government positions. Also, in the national government, the government of the United States has to always borrow money from banks. There is something called National Debt. Hundreds of billions of dollars they owe the banks, the United States government, to support all their different programs.

Prabhupāda: National Debt.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...of the human society. But actually it's one body, one entity already, simply that with different activities that we have to perform. The example is given, mukhe bāhūru pāda-ja: That there is the head; there's the arms; there's the belly, the abdomen; and then there is the legs. And all of them are part of the same body. So you might say that the legs are removed from the head, or that the head is removed from the stomach, but actually it's all one body and it works together. But the head gives direction to the whole body, how to act properly, so that the benefit is there to be derived. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is creating a class of brāhmaṇas, or heads of human society, who can give direction to the whole sphere of human activities so that they can become successful in human life. So in reality, we're not trying to create farmers, we're trying to create brāhmaṇas. But our farming communities are, so to speak, an example, an ideal example how human society can live: some people in the capacity of preachers, some people in the capacity of farmers, how so many activities can go on—various occupations—but all of them can be God-centered. So in reality, these people, they're farmers, they're out there on their tractor, they can jump off their tractor at any moment and preach the highest philosophy, because actually they're brāhmaṇas. They (are the) intelligent class of men. So it's one entity. The basic principle is that modern society is neglecting to train up—especially young men, you can see that in spite of so many universities throughout the world—these young men are being trained up how to become women-hunters and debauches. Going to the bars, going to the gambling houses, and they are supposed to be educated people. So real education is how to train up one to have ideal character, to become a brāhmaṇa.

Guest (1): Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Our men's productive. There must be food production, otherwise how the society will live. That is also a requirement. Good direction required, good government required, good production required, and good worker required. You can explain that there is no understanding of spiritual life. That they are missing the opportunity of human life.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. That point is missing that there is another life which is eternal, blissful, life of knowledge. But they have no idea that we can eternally live without birth, death, old age, and disease. There is no information, neither education, but there is a life very... If you get eternal life, then the tribulations of material life no longer are there: birth, death, old age, and disease. But they have no idea or information because there is no intelligent man to understand that there is another life which is eternal, and life of bliss and knowledge. There is no information. That is the defect of the modern civilization, they are living like animals. No intelligence. So actually human life is meant for purifying our existential condition so that we may not be subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. That they are missing. They do not know, neither there is any education, nor university. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on that line. It is not a sentimental religious system, it is an educational system. How one can transfer himself to eternal blissful life. Satsvarūpa is there?

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like a... Without any knowledge if we infect some disease, it will manifest in due course of time, and you have to suffer. Similarly without any knowledge we are infecting the modes of material nature and according to that modes of material nature, you have to accept a type of body which may not be very comfortable. Of course there is no comfort when there is death. We don't want death, but there is compulsory death. There is no comfort at all. But still the short duration of life, if we have little comfort... But again if we have this comfortable life, then what is the benefit of this comfort? That material laws of nature, we do not know, neither any education about (this). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving that education. Therefore it is not a sentimental so-called religious movement, it is a scientific movement of real education. To solve the problems of life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think human society has been educated to even understand the problem what to speak of a cure.

Prabhupāda: Problem there is, but he's a fool. Who wants to die? Why this fire brigade is running here and there? To save life. He doesn't want to die.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That you can see, what education I have given to my disciples. The first education is that they must be free from all sinful activities. That is the first education. According to the Vedic instruction, a man is supposed to be educated, even from material point of view, a man is supposed to be educated when he sees every woman as mother.

Interviewer: As?

Prabhupāda: As mother.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the standard of education.

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu
yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

Paṇḍita means educated. So how one is educated? How it is tested? When a person takes all women except his wife as mother, then he is educated. When one thinks others' property as garbage in the street, then he is educated. And when one thinks that all living entities are of the same level, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, then he is educated. Not that for my convenience I say, "The animal has no soul, so send them to the slaughterhouse." He is not educated.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: My question is because they are receiving this education, physical and spiritual education so that they will be free of corruption and sin, they might still, even with this education, they still might not be intelligent, what you consider intelligent people. How, you know... Is it more likely that they will be what you would term intelligent, having been educated in this system?

Prabhupāda: No, there are different types of education. Just like in the material world. There is education for medical man. There is education for engineer. There is education for so many other departments. Similarly, there is education how to make one man spiritual. So we are going to give education how to become spiritually advanced. That is our purpose.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: These things are discussed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out this verse. It is an educational movement, it is not a religious movement, sentiment. One requires to be educated; then he is completely on the spiritual platform.

Interviewer: Let me ask you one more question before he reads the passage.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all about death.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The translation is, "For the soul there is never birth nor death nor having once been does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of death for a spiritually realized person.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Young men do not generally possess a great deal of wisdom.

Prabhupāda: No, if he's trained up. Just like here we have got so many young men. They are trained up. So there is no prohibition that a young man cannot become a sannyāsa. If he's able, he can take sannyāsa from the very beginning. But if he's not able, let him enter into household life and then remain as householder up to fiftieth year, then retire, then take sannyāsa. It is not an enforcement. A gradual process. But the ultimate end is to become free from all material attachment and completely devote life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the ultimate end. Because human life is meant for that purpose, self-realization or spiritual realization, that opportunity must be given to all human beings. Unfortunately at the present moment the civilization has no scope for spiritual realization. They live like other animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They do not know there is another life, spiritual life, and neither there is any education or institution to educate them. Now we are trying for that purpose.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: First of all try to understand the car is moving with the help of the driver. So the driver and the car they are always different identity. So when the car is dead, the driver do not work with the car, but the driver is important within the car or without the car.

Bali-mardana: In other words, the soul is important with this body or without this body. But the body without the soul is simply fertilizer, like you said, it's dead, useless. So our mission is to educate people about the driver, about the soul within the body.

Prabhupāda: And people are generally working on the body.

Interviewer: People are generally working on the body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we are working on the driver of the body. That is the difference.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: But we are trying to educate the prisoners that "Your life is not perfect within the jail. Your life is perfect without the jail." This is our education.

Interviewer: Life is not perfect in the jail.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the person in the jail they are thinking, "What is this, they are not working for the jail life?"

Interviewer: Person in the jail, I didn't get that.

Prabhupāda: Because they cannot understand that there is life after jail. They are so fool, rascal that they cannot understand that without jail one can live.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: He's educating them.

Interviewer: What's he doing?

Prabhupāda: He's educating.

Interviewer: He's trying to show them a different way?

Prabhupāda: Not different way, he's educating differently.

Bali-mardana: So they can understand what they're doing, what they're supposed to be doing.

Interviewer: He's educating them to what? That this jail life is no good?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Interviewer: The world thinks hammering is real business.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so our business is to educate them that "Your hammering business is not your life. Your freedom is real business."

Interviewer: Freedom is what?

Prabhupāda: Real business.

Interviewer: You've, I'm sure you've heard or read about these claims by these parent groups that claim that the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement members are, ah, sort of controlled by intensive indoctrination? Brain-washed they call it, you know, by getting up and having the two hours or three of chanting in the morning and prayer beads constantly and the group life, that they're sort of controlled, and denied their freedom. What do you say about that?

Prabhupāda: It is due to misunderstanding. They do not understand what kind of preaching, what kind of education we are giving. We are giving education how to become free from the hammering business in the jail. They think hammering business and keep oneself within the jail is the real life because they have been accustomed to that. And when we speak that "Hammering or to keep within the jail is not your real business: your real business is freedom," naturally they find contradiction, and they think that we are doing something against their business. That is the difficulty.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...the Vedic mantras. "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, within this body there is the soul. So on account of presence of the soul we are transmigrating to different bodies. Just like from childhood to boyhood. The body of a boy is different from the body of a child, but the same soul who was within the body of a child has now come within the body of a boy. And the same soul again, he will go in the body of a young man. And the same soul again will go in the body of an old man. And the same soul, when the body of old man is finished, then he enters another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. A part of it we can see in this life. I was in the child's body, I was in the boy's body, I was in the young man's body, now I am an old man's body. Similarly, as my child's body being finished, I have entered into the boy's body; my boy's body being finished, I have entered young man's body. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I shall enter another body, new body. That will be given to me by nature according to the mental condition at the time of my death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the law of nature. So people are not educated in the law of nature. They are educated in animalistic life.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So this is education. The Western people are not educated in the spiritual life. So our predecessors, our gurus, they are for educating people in the spiritual life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago, He advised Indians to go, first of all, make his life..., Indian should make his life perfect, and then he should go outside India and preach the perfectional life, how to become perfect in life. That was His mission. He said pṛthivīte āche yata. You understand Bengali?

Interviewer: Yes.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So this is the civilization of the asuras, and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or without any knowledge of the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, people are grouped as duṣkṛtina, miscreants; mūḍhas, rascals; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say that "So many people, they are educated highly in the university, how they can be taken as miscreants, rascals and lowest of the mankind?" the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have got knowledge, so-called knowledge, but they are lacking in real knowledge. Knowledge means to get out of distress. That is knowledge. But the real distress remains as it is. They cannot avoid death, they cannot avoid birth, they cannot avoid old age. And still they are claiming they are making progress in happiness. So that is called illusion.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda told us yesterday that one Sanskritist was appreciating the Harvard classics very much as being very important in educating people about Indian culture, but Prabhupāda's books are even better.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said "insurpassable." "Prabhupāda's books are insurpassable."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That man was the chief of the Benares school?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Sanskrit department.

Prabhupāda: Very learned scholar in Sanskrit. Titles in Sanskrit.

Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...Ratha-yātrā, "No Parking. Sunday Parade."

Prabhupāda: You convince the authorities of America that my logic, andha-paṅgor nyāya. Who will explain this? Andha-paṅgor nyāya, lame and blind logic.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: One of the big problems that you read about a lot now is how parents are confused about how to educate their children, because there are so many different standards, and they don't know how their children will turn out anymore.

Prabhupāda: Here is our standard—to make him devotee.

Hṛdayānanda: China.

Rāmeśvara: These are Chinese art paintings. They are having a special exhibit of Chinese art.

Prabhupāda: Afro-American, why not Indo-American?

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: I... We can. By your grace, Kṛṣṇa is here, and we have no intention to come from there. I had intention that let the children go back home. And we fight, all this stuff. I say, "All right, we must start to fully educate him." Full education is that he become advanced in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: So I said "We haven't got any education." Under the law of this country, if they have to remain here, they have to go up to sixteen years to the school.

Prabhupāda: No, education is good, but the association is...

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is situated... Kṛṣṇa is not stereotyped in one place. Kṛṣṇa, He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is Kṛṣṇa. I am sitting here; you are sitting here. I am not in my apartment, but Kṛṣṇa, although He is sitting in this temple, He is present everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). In this way we have to study Kṛṣṇa very scientifically, and the books are there, and we have tried to explain as far as possible. Take advantage of this institution. Don't waste a moment of your life. Take it very seriously. Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ. Take seriousness... Especially those who are educated, they should take serious consideration of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Try to understand each and every verse of Bhagavad-gītā, especially, and, if possible, Bhāgavatam. There are so many books. We have got program to publish at least eighty-four books like this, four hundred pages each. So we have already published fifty-four books. So if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa through science and philosophy, read these books. Otherwise—very easy method—come here; chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. There is no difficulty. Thank you very much. (end)

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the literature, how to convince them about the spiritual life.

Mike Robinson: And you're really not concerned whether or not they join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. One must be.... Our mission is to educate. People are in ignorance. They are living in fool's paradise, that he is his body. Bas. When the body's finished, everything is finished. That is foolishness.

Mike Robinson: And you're basically just concerned to tell them that there's a spiritual dimension to life. And if they then were to find that spiritual dimension in something like the Anglican Church, that would not worry you.

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is Anglican Church...

Mike Robinson: Sorry, the English Church.

Prabhupāda: ...but we are concerned with the educational propaganda, that "You are not this body. Body is your covering, shirt and coat. Within the body you are living, and as you are spirit soul, you have got so many things to know."

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: This is going on, this is going on, because you are eternal. According to your work, you are simply changing body. Therefore you should be educated how to stop this business, how to remain in our original, spiritual body. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Mike Robinson: Oh, I see. So if I gain Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I wouldn't have to have the threat of coming back as a dog or something like that.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Mike Robinson: Can you tell...

Prabhupāda: Read that, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: We are trying to educate people on this basis.

Mike Robinson: But that's, if I understand you correctly, you seem to be educating people on a purely scientific basis.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mike Robinson: So where does religion come into it at all?

Prabhupāda: Religion means also science. But they have taken religion as faith, "I believe." Religion means, actually, religion means.... Just like in the dictionary you find what is the religion...

Hari-śauri: Obeying the Supreme Person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Religion means to learn how to obey the supreme controller. That is religion. So you may be Christian, I may be Hindu, it doesn't matter. But we must accept there is a supreme controller.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: As they follow the principles, they realize that "Yes, I am advancing," Otherwise, why they should stick? They are also educated, they are young men, and they are coming from respectable family. They are not dull-headed dogs. So why they are sticking to this principle unless they feel, "Yes, I am making progress"? Just like you are hungry, and if you are given some foodstuff, you eat the.... With every morsel of food you feel, "Yes, my hunger is satisfied. I am feeling strength, I must go on till I am fully satisfied." It is like that. It doesn't require certificate from others. He'll feel himself, "Yes."

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Berkeley. Very horrible condition. Let them do whatever they like, you live apart from them. Live peacefully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Be happy. Let these cats and dogs go to hell; what can be done? We are trying to educate them as far as possible, but if they do not take it, that is their business. We are doing our duty, going door to door, "Read these books. If you like, you can come and live with us." What we can do more? We do not make any condition, that if you live with us you have to fulfill. Of course, the condition is that you should not act sinfully. That is the first condition. But we never say that you have to pay so many dollars. Come. Whatever little food we have got, we shall share. So try to understand the importance of this movement. Kṛṣṇa is giving us. This is a first-class place. You can develop it into a Vaikuṇṭha. It is already Vaikuṇṭha, Kṛṣṇa is there. But develop it very nicely, peacefully live. Hundreds of miles away from the hellish cities. For little conveyance we can have bullock carts, when we have to get, transport. Very peaceful life. Introduce it and live peacefully. Am I right or wrong?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: You once said in Vṛndāvana that the Marwaris, they don't bother going to school because they can make a lot of money by sitting by the phone and just pay a few rupees a day and any educated fool can do the work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. They are employing in their factory, big, big chemist, big, big physicist, engineer and so on, but they do not bother. They are paying thirty thousand rupees per month salary, Birla. Expert, imported from foreign country, but their sons are never troubled. They know how to utilize that worker of thirty thousand rupees per month and to earn thirty lakhs from him. Why shall he waste his time? He knows how to they earn. They pay a man thirty thousand and through him earn thirty lakhs. Actually, in order to make a balanced society, the varṇāśrama-dharma is very important, cooperation. So these things are meant for the śūdras, and brāhmaṇas are not meant for this.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes, from cultural point of view, they are degraded. And that was that British policy, to kill them culturally. Otherwise not possible to rule over them.

Hari-śauri: They always advertised that India was so backward because that was a justification for their being there, that "We shall go and educate."

Prabhupāda: They used to advertise like that.

Hari-śauri: Then they could exploit and avoid criticism.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many bad things Britishers introduced. Bad things means Western type of civilization.

Hari-śauri: Sometimes people, they say, we're always glorifying Indian culture, so why are they so badly off? So we tell them it's because they've give up the culture that they're badly off. Otherwise, a hundred years ago there was no problem. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Lockers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not possible for us. We welcome. But we must be well organized to utilize these poor souls for becoming first-class devotees. That should be done. Otherwise, sex life and the by-product, that is always troublesome, either you take this way or that way, it is troublesome. If it is not troublesome, why they are killing their own children? To avoid trouble. This is psychology. They want to avoid trouble. But our process is, if you want to avoid trouble, then don't marry, remain brahmacārī. If you cannot, then, all right, have legal wife, get children and raise them very nicely, make them Vaiṣṇavas, take the responsibility. So we are organizing this society, we welcome. Some way or other we shall arrange for shelter. But to take care of the children, to educate them, that will depend on their parents. Now our Pradyumna was complaining that in the Gurukula, his child was not educated to count one, two, three, four. So I have told him that "You educate your child. Let the mother educate in English, and you educate him in Sanskrit." Who can take care? So similarly every father, mother should take care that in future they may not be a batch of unwanted children. We can welcome hundreds and thousands of children.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: No. It was imported. Because it was imported they would not touch. The mill cloth, because they were imported, no gentleman will touch. No religious function would allow to use mill-made cloth. And so far medicine is concerned, they would never touch it. This is the difficulty... (indistinct) sent a confidential report that if you want to keep Indians as Indian you'll never be able to do like that. Then they will gradually introduce all this nonsense, drinking tea, drinking wine. "You are uncivilized. Whatever British are doing, they are civilized way. England's work in India." And they were given facilities, those who were English educated. In this way, they first of all tried to make the whole Indian population Anglici... Not possible to all. At least, those who are educated. So the so-called Indian educated, they took it seriously. Just like our Bon Mahārāja. English way of living, with fork and... Yes. He has taken it seriously. He is under impression, whatever is foreign. In this way Indian culture was killed. The Muhammadans, they had no such idea. They wanted to rule over, that's all. And the money was not going to outside They were spending lavishly—in India. The money was in India, but these people, they're dispersing all the money, jewels, and everything valuable, outside India. So they became poverty-stricken. And culturally conquered. (aside) Not so many. This will be enough.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. That is practical, we see. If you have got money, then people will come to you, "Oh, you are so learned, you are so qualified." Just like George, or John Lennon. What qualification they have got? But people will go there and take them as very highly learned and scholar and everything. The press reporters take their opinion. But what is their qualification? The qualification, by selling some records they have got money, that's all. What is that qualification? Now of course, they are coming to, George at least, coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, from qualification point of view, they are not learned, educated in university, nor they have got any spiritual assets, born brāhmaṇa family, nothing. Simply money. We also go and flatter them to get some money (laughs). So this is Kali-yuga. Vittam eva. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore people are after, so much after money. Vittam eva, hmm? Read that?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So this life should be utilized for purifying ourself from this designation. If you keep the designation then there is no possibility of purification. You'll get another designation. Now we are Indian or Iranian, next a sparrow or a crow or a tree or a demigod. Another designation. Just like the same, the child, a baby, on the lap of the mother, a baby, and another designation, boy, another designation young man, another designation, old man. But the spirit soul is the same. He's simply changing designations. So freedom means freedom from all these designations. I am spirit, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am spirit soul, my business is spiritual activity. So long we want to keep designation, you'll have to accept material body and suffer. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to educate people how to become free from designations. Therefore we accept from any group. If I think that he is under designation... But our business is to make him free from the designation. We therefore welcome anyone. He may come with designation, but if he lives with us, he follows our rules and regulations, he becomes free from designation. And this so-called designated religious system will not help us. If we keep ourself on the designated platform—I am American, I am Indian, I am Iranian, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, I am Christian, I am Buddhist—then we have to continue in that designation.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So, but he has worked in a different way, so he has got attachment for becoming American and Iranian, "All right you become." And according to work you have to become a lamb. And other Iranians eat you. That's all. This is designation. They do not understand, or they are not educated that what he will get by these designations. Big, big movement is going on on this designation platform. In our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he is supposed to be a great personality, but what is his teaching? He remained in designation, that's all. Feel like Indian and drive away the English. And one designation, you drive away another designation. This is going on. And he took Bhagavad-gītā, he never said "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is going on. Karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa sakale viṣera bandha. This is karma-kāṇḍa. Designation movements. And higher than this karma-kāṇḍa, the mental speculators, jñāna-kāṇḍa. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura (says) both of them viṣera bandha. Pot of poison. If you waste your time in this way, then they will get another body, that's all. Nana yoni bhraman kare kadārya bhakṣana kare, tara janma adha pate yaya. These are simple words but, it contains very, very grave meaning. This is Vaiṣṇava ācārya. Where is Atreya Ṛṣi?

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So that is very dangerous. Instead of becoming godless, if somebody approaches God, it doesn't matter in some way, some ritual, it is better than this atheist class of men. At least they are accepting God, and if they offer prayers sincerely, God is there within your heart, He'll gradually reveal. The more you become purified, the more He reveals. Then He'll talk with you. So everything depends on the sincerity and seriousness. And if we take these ritualistic ceremonies, "Now I've gone to church or mosque, I have gone to temple, finish. Now let me do whatever I like." Then that is waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is simply waste of time. That is going on practically. He doesn't want to see "How much progress I have made in the matter of loving God." That he does not inquire. He takes God as order supplier. So "He's supplying my order, that's nice." He'll never learn to supply the order of God. Neither he will come any stage on that platform. The highest stage is to supply the order of God, not make God my order supplier. That is neophyte stage. Just like a small child, he simply wants to take supply from the father. But when the child is grown up and he's educated, he wants to see "How I can supply the order of parents." That is good stage. "My parents have taken so much pain to raise me, now I am educated, now they are old man..." Sentiment, I am speaking, this family sentiment. "I must see my..." (someone enters) Come on. The whole day. That is the stage of love, that "I have taken supplies from my father so long, now I must supply the order of the father." That is the stage of love. I'll not take. I have taken so much, sufficient.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It's possible. If you take advantage of the highest college, then you become..., there is possibility to becoming highly educated. You cannot become highly educated sitting down in a dark room. That is not possible. Is it possible? You have to associate, take admission in the society where people are actually highly educated. The advantage is there, the possibility is there, but you have to take it.

Mrs. Sahani: From their own religion also.

Prabhupāda: Why you bring in religion? We are talking of knowledge.

Mrs. Sahani: Knowledge is there in all the religions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Religion is now misunderstood. Religion is described in the dictionary, "a faith." So faith..., your faith may be something, my faith may be something, that is not religion. Religion is described in the Vedic literature, "the law given by God." That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). So, just like law means the order given by the state, similarly, religion means the order given by God. So if you do not know what is God, what is His order, then what is your religion? Do you believe it or not? If you do not know what is God, if you do not know what is His word or what is His order, then where is your religion? If you do not know what is the government and if you do not know what is the government's order, then where is the question of law-abiding? Religion means, according to Vedic description.... Just like Kṛṣṇa said, mām ekām śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is religion.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: He is grouped. Duṣkṛtinaḥ means he has got intelligence, kṛti. Kṛti means one who has got intelligence, merit. But his merit is being utilized for sinful activities, duṣkṛtinaḥ. If merit is used for good work, that is called sukṛtina. And if the merit is used for manufacturing something harmful to the human society, then it is duṣkṛtina. Merit is there. A thief, rascal and cheater, he has got good merit, but he's using it for bad purpose. They are duṣkṛtina. Why he has become so? Mūḍhāḥ. Because he does not know his interest, ass. The example is ass, mūḍhāḥ. The ass does not know his interest. He is loading tons of cloth for others' interest, for a morsel of grass. And the rascal does not know he can get grass anywhere. Why he is taking so much trouble? Muḍḥāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino, narādhamāḥ. And this human life was meant for understanding this, nara, but he has misused his life's asset. Narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind. How it happened? They are so educated. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Their education has no value. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam, don't care for Kṛṣṇa, don't care for God. "We are everything, we are God." This is going on. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These are descriptions in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Without hearing the good advice of Kṛṣṇa, he does it at his risk. That's all. He'll be arrested, he'll be put into jail. That's all. He'll suffer. But Kṛṣṇa gives him good counsel, "Don't do it." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). He's situated in every heart, but if you persist to do something, He gives, "All right, do at your risk. What can I do?" You suffer. That independence you have got. Just like State. State does not advise anyone that "You become a criminal." But when he becomes criminal, then put into jail. State says, "Everyone go to the university, be educated," but if you make your choice, go to the prison house, you can make your choice. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says everyone, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). But if you make your choice to go to hell, what can He do?

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Because people are still on the bodily conception of life, so they are...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the real disease. So long one is situated in the bodily concept of life, he is animal. First of all, you have to educate them. That is the difficulty.

Jñānagamya: But we are not Negroes. We are actually devotees and we are very attractive, and we have all good qualities, and people do not have to be afraid to come into our section of town. We will not kill them. That is why they are afraid of the Negroes. So we actually have good things to offer.

Prabhupāda: That is by your behavior, not by showing the film.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: What is the reason?

Guest: Reason is because from the last fifty years the education was a big problem here, and the government needed people to get educated. So they gave a lot of facilities that people should send their children out to get educated.

Prabhupāda: Foreign education.

Guest: Yes. So everybody who could have some money or he could afford it, he sends his children to America, London, Paris, Germany. Very huge (indistinct). But they are full in Germany, they are full in London, they are full in America. They are four places where everybody... In London you can walk everywhere on the street and you can hear...

Prabhupāda: (to other guest) Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. (Bengali) (long pause)

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Arundhatī: Prabhupāda is asking if you need those glasses.

Prabhupāda: Yes? All right. So our, this philosophy is to educate the human being to know about God. That's all. We have no other business. We're writing books on this subject matter, distributing them, educating them. We are creating preachers who can educate. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Others are denying the human rights. We are giving the human rights. We are so benevolent. Suppose your father has got some money. You are child, you do not know. But if somebody tries to hide that money or does not give you, utilizes for some other purposes; another friend is trying to give you your father's money—who is better friend, hm? Who is better friend? You cannot distinguish who is better friend?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Nandarāṇī: Kṛṣṇa was speaking to Arjuna, and Arjuna had real intelligence, but nowadays if someone tries to consider Kṛṣṇa's instructions and deliberate fully and make some decision, he always makes the wrong decision.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore he has to accept spiritual master to guide him. Just like simply by reading books you do not become educated. You go to school and read before the teacher. Then you'll understand. You cannot become a medical man by purchasing books from the market and reading at home. You must go to the medical college. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Not only reading, but you go to the person who is actually realized. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Everything is there. You cannot understand individually. That is not possible. If you are extraordinarily intelligent, you can do that. That is exception. But ordinarily it is not possible. Therefore the spiritual master is there. He'll guide you. What is that?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Guest: I think the temples are increasing, particularly in Germany, England, and I suppose in America as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in America we have got forty branches. Our philosophy is simple. We educate people to understand that there is God. This is a godless civilization. So we say that there is God. Try to understand, and love Him, that's all. This is our philosophy. Then you'll be happy. And so long you do not love God, you simply love dog, you'll never be happy. That is our philosophy. You have diverted your loving spirit to the dog. You change it. Instead of loving dog, you love God. Then dog will be loved and everyone will be loved. If you simply love dog, then your love will be simply in dog. But if you love God, then you'll love God and dog also. Just like you are eating. So the eatable is going to the stomach. If you distribute this eatable to the eyes, to the ears, to the nose—there are nine holes—it will be uselessly spoiled. And if you give this foodstuff to the stomach, the energy will be immediately distributed to the ears, to the eyes, to the nose, to the... Similarly, if you have got a propensity to love, you love God, your love will be distributed everywhere.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: What is the reason?

Mr. Sahani: Reason is because from the last fifty years the education was a big problem here. And the government needed people to get educated. So they gave lot of facilities that people should send their children out to get educated.

Prabhupāda: Foreign education.

Mr. Sahani: Yes. So everybody who could have some money if he could afford it, he sent his children to America, London, Paris, Germany. Berne, even Switzerland, but they are full in Germany, they are full in London, they are full in America. They are the four places where everybody... In London you walk everywhere on the street and you can hear...

Prabhupāda: Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. Utsāhān dhairyāt...

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: He was prime minister for about ten days.

Prabhupāda: Yes, for a few days. He was a very prominent member in the cabinet, and now see. So planning, you make so many plans, but it requires sanction. That planning is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. In this way, there is a verse, that we are planning, that every parent is planning how his child will be grown nice, educated, but it becomes different. Every father, mother plan that "My child should be like this." But he is becoming hippie. When there is somebody diseased, rich man, he is planning to save him, best physician, best medicine supplied, but he's dying. So what is the value of your planning? Your planning is... That's all right. That's your duty. But it requires the sanction of some higher authority. Otherwise useless. That is your position. You may make plan, but unless it is sanctioned by the higher authority, then it is useless. That is practically going on.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Those who cannot read the book, they are still better. Those who can read the book, they are still more dangerous.

Guest (1): They will misinterpret the whole thing. They will misrepresent, the danger is still more there. It is rather more with the educated people that the danger is there than the uneducated. But to reach the uneducated we have, I was thinking this is a better media. This is one of the medias perhaps, I wouldn't say better. Perhaps one of the medias by which we can reach them in a larger crowd.

Guest (2): But not in the way that the films are made.

Guest (1): No, that is not say. I don't want. I could produce...

Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa consciousness is developed when one practices according to the prescribed method,

tapasā brahmacaryena
śamena ca damena ca
tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ
yamena niyamena vā
(SB 6.1.13)

These are the process, tapasya, brahmacaryena. So it is very difficult for the common man to undergo tapasya. Little tapasya we have introduced, no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That is also become very difficult nowadays.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man (3): ...numerous pictures also. What we have to educate the people...

Prabhupāda: (break) By practice. We are training them to practice how to become devotees. By superficial seeing the activities of Kṛṣṇa, this is not... One has to practice. Just like we are going to start gurukula. Gurukula means practice. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dāntaḥ (SB 7.12.1). How to become self-controlled, dānta. That is the... So our mission is to awaken the original consciousness, and that can be done by practice. Without practice, it is not possible. It is not by seeing some picture one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Indian response we have seen when we held meeting in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, thousands and thousands of people come here to hear about Bhagavad-gītā. Inherently they are inclined, but there is no systematic education. That is the defect. Now the Janmāṣṭamī day is coming I think every Indian will observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī, without any fail. But they are not being educated systematically about Kṛṣṇa. They know Kṛṣṇa, they are inclined to Kṛṣṇa, the education of Kṛṣṇa is there, but nobody is interested to give them properly, systematically. That is the difficulty.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I was explaining, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). If the big big politicians, head of the state, they understand, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), others will follow.

Host: Others will follow. So I must thank you for coming. I request you, if you have little time, you could sit there and listen to Swamiji, other people also are coming, and have little prasādam and go, see, after having come to my humble house, see my pūjā room also, how humbly I keep that pūjā room, so that we learn, we must learn to keep up our religion. When we become educated, when we become ministers, ambassadors, we forget our.... When we become big people, very big people, our eyes jump up and go to the head here. When we become rich people and money people—who is speaking to you? Not a rich man. A man who comes from a humble family. The man who was born in a tiled-roofed house. So I have never changed.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: How people are receiving this movement all over the world, even (indistinct) to the communist (indistinct). They are trying to kill God, and we are putting God (indistinct) educated families.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Jayapatāka: Show that other article that... This is the actual article against us.

Acyutānanda: Also this came in the Statesman, the pro-vice-chancellor of Calcutta University came to Māyāpur, he wants to affiliate Māyāpur with the Calcutta University. This came in the Statesman. And a few days ago the vice-chancellor...

Prabhupāda: It is not yet finished?

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Our whole movement is to educate this atheistic godless civilization to God consciousness. That is our movement. So if we set up a party, In God We Trust, what is the wrong there?

Gargamuni: In the same newspaper they print naked women. So we have God conscious party to stop this.

Prabhupāda: To stop illicit sex.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We are trying to elevate the demoralized human society to God consciousness.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: Now they have a... I put a two-man team. A two- or three-man team. Subhaga, there's one boy Kiśora, and Tatpur. Between the three of them they check and recheck.

Prabhupāda: Tatpur is educated?

Jayapatākā: He's got a B.A. or something.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayapatākā: He doesn't write himself. He writes in old fashion. But he corrects for double-checking philosophy. Editing. And this Kiśora, he was a M.A. and he previously used to write. He was an honor student at Calcutta University, and he used to freelance write in Bengali. So his style is very nice.

Prabhupāda: Why not engage him in simply...

Jayapatākā: He is translating now our...

Gargamuni: That's all he does.

Jayapatākā: That and he greets the guests. He's also good at membership.

Prabhupāda: Gītār Gān has become popular.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: A class of men, brāhmaṇa—sattva śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). As there are different educational system, there must be an educational institute where these things are taught: how to become truthful, how to become self-controlled, how to become full in knowledge, how to become full believer in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Āstikyam. In this way, as there is necessity of engineer, as there is necessity of medical man, as there is necessity of so many other departmental chiefs, similarly, a department of brāhmaṇa, a department of kṣatriya—that education must be given. But in this age, because nobody is interested, so everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Everyone, all over the world, they are being educated to seek after some good service. Paricarya: he must have a good master; then his education will be... He cannot act independently. So therefore in the śāstra it is said that everyone is anxious to get a good job, therefore, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ, in this age almost everyone is śūdra. So if śūdras are there only, if there is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśyas, that society will not prosper very much. If we accept the injunction of the śāstra, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma (BG 16.23). So this brāhmaṇa, or kṣatriya, vaiśya, it is not by birth.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You have counted? Not yet. Counting? No.

Hari-śauri: I've got it listed. 182. 1-8-2. All their temples should be reorganized on the... People should come there for being educated. Temple means it is an educational center.

Commissioner: Educational center.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Brāhmaṇas means they are teachers. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. So every temple should be educational center, and the brāhmaṇas should be engaged. They should be properly educated and they should teach others also. In this way, temple means education in spiritual life. And actually spiritual life is life. This material life, the bodily conception of life, is dead life. Aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. This nice shirt you have changed because there is life. When there is no life, who is going to change dress? The body is there, but why you are not interested in changing the dress? Better interest... The sooner the body is thrown away or burned, better.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: Ah, but they are educated.

Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: He, her son he is the father and mother, he's an Indian, in Detroit, very good boy, getting very nice. He, living in the temple, husband wife, child we have. Bacā, ek bacā? He's getting very happy, very nice boy. (Hindi) Just like their son, he's educated very nicely. Educated boys are joining, from foreign countries and not from here. (Hindi) Here is Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, he was sales manager in Coca-cola. (Hindi) ...dollar, he has given. (Hindi for some time) You have bought that book? Ah. Stillson Judah's?

Pradyumna: No. It's in Bombay. We may have a copy in Vṛndāvana also.

Prabhupāda: One professor, Stillson Judah, he has written one book. After studying our movement five years he has written one, "Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counter-culture." "Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counter-culture."

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...with some Indian wife they were called Eurasian, and Englishman marrying Indian wife they were called Anglo-Indian. There was a big Anglo-Indian community and they were given good facilities by the Britishers for government jobs, railways. In railway, almost cent percent. The driver, the guard, the ticket inspector, all, means, semi-important jobs, they were all given to these Anglo-Indians. Because they were not very much educated. And officers, they were all Britishers. Officers, secretaries. And Indians were clerks. Indians, they were accepted as clerks only. No officers. In military, Indian Sikhs and Gurkha, especially Sikhs, they were very valiant. Still they are valiant. They were given the post of captain. Not general. General all Englishmen.

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, now you cannot say Indians. (laughs) Now we cannot say only Indians worship Kṛṣṇa. Whole world. That is God. They are not fools and rascals. They are educated, they are civilized. Why they accept Kṛṣṇa as God? Yesterday I was telling who? I think Caraṇam?

Hari-śauri: Caraṇāravindam.

Prabhupāda: Caraṇāravindam. That the Englishmen were ruling over us. Now here is English boy, he's giving me massage and fanning me. What is the reason? Unless he feels something obligation, that "He has given us Kṛṣṇa," what business he has got? Not for him, for all of you, to give so valuable free service, unless there is this sense. What do you think? You have no obligation. You are European, American. I am Indian. It is through this via media Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is God. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Because they have got sense that "We have got God," therefore they are feeling so much obliged. Kṛṣṇa is God, there is no doubt about it. It is not yet ready?

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are trying in your own way. But Kṛṣṇa does not like that program. You can manufacture your something, idea, but Kṛṣṇa will allow or not. I tell you. This is practical. You are a qualified man, foreign educated man, and you have come back for the last one and a half years, still you are in nothing. It is surprising. That means Kṛṣṇa does not want you to do that something. You take it from me. These boys have come because they found, outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness, life is nothing. That's a fact. Therefore they are sticking to this. They knew it very well. That outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness the whole world was vacant, "Nothing for us." That is a fact. Therefore they have got something here. They are not foolish rascals, they're sticking for nothing. There is something. It's a fact. So for nothing, "Oh, we have suffered." And come to something. If you want. That's Prāṇava, he is trying for something. He has come also to Vṛndāvana more than one year or two. Huh?

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If they have got little brain, then kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Otherwise, Hare Kṛṣṇa upadeśa, that's all. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very simple. The preacher does not require to be very highly educated. If he follows simply Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128), then he's successful. No ostādi.

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is their administration. And that was going on for the last two hundred years. So India lost. (break) ...educated persons they lost. And the mass of people, they were not educated. They have not lost, but they don't find any good example by the leaders.

Haṁsadūta: No encouragement.

Prabhupāda: No encouragement. They are simply staying somehow or other in their original culture, but there is no encouragement by the leaders. But the leaders have lost. This is the position. Just like Jawaharlal Nehru, he was a complete rascal about Indian culture. He did not think that Indian culture has any value. Therefore he wrote the book, "Discovery of India." You know that? He has... It is little popular. "Discovery of India." So long India was not discovered by opiate or something like, as the Russians say. Now it is now discovered. And that its leaders have to become Anglicized or Europeanized. Industry, the Western way of living, eating, and everything. Pollution. Everything.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Doctor: Maybe so.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difficulty. He has come to give you instruction, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). When you forget, there is glānir, discrepancies, in the discharge of your duties, He comes to give you instruction, but you don't accept. Now what, can be done? The teacher is giving you instruction, but you don't accept. Then how you'll be educated? This is going on. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). They do not accept. They will write comments on Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. You see? Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Yes. As it is. Don't comment in your own way. You'll not get any profit. Take for example any law, government law. Can I comment in my own way?

Doctor: No.

Prabhupāda: Then why you comment on Bhagavad-gītā?

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:

Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class. Janma-aiśvarya-śruta-śrī, these four things, to take birth in high class family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich, and śruta, to become very learned scholar, and śrī, beautiful, these four things are there whose background is pious life. Otherwise, not possible. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). So those who are just the opposite—means not born in very high class family, not... They say "accident." No, it is not accident. According to śāstra, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), there is superior examination. Yamarāja is there. Now, this man is now dead, this soul is now changing body. What kind of body he'll get next? That is judged by the superior authority. Just like in the office a person is promoted. So his record is examined, how he has worked honestly to the interest of the establishment. All this consideration. Then he's given increment of salary or promotion to higher post. This is common sense. So it is not accident. A man is born from the very beginning, a rich man's son. That does not mean that it is accident. Daiva-netreṇa. By a superior arrangement he is given the chance to take birth in a aristocratic family or rich family or educated family or in a beautiful family.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: He is everywhere within this universe, even within the atom. That is Supersoul. That Supersoul is—the distinction between soul and the Supersoul is this, that we are individual soul.... I know about the pains and pleasure of my body, you know the pains and pleasure of your body, but I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body, you do not know the pains or pleasure of my body. The Supersoul, He knows the pains and pleasure of all bodies. That is the distinction. Ātmā, Paramātmā. So these things can be understood in the human form of life. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand. If we want to educate the cats and dogs that "My dear dog, you are not this body. You are different from this body. You are spirit soul, Brahman," he has no capacity to understand. And a human being, however fallen he may be, if he is educated, he can understand about the position of spirit soul and how to become free from this material bondage. So in India we have got immense Vedic literature for understanding this business of the soul. And in human form of body, if we do not take care of the spiritual portion of our life, then we are making suicide. That is the proposal of all great personalities born in India, ācāryas like.... Recent.... Formerly, there were big, big ācāryas like Vyāsadeva and others. Devala. Many, many ācāryas.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: So that is your interpretation. But we are trying to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our mission. That you produce food grains sufficiently and give protection to the cows so that food grains and milk will give you all benefits of economic question. You'll be satisfied. That's all. Not only that, I have practically seen that by God's arrangement there are so much land on this planet that you can produce ten times food stuff of the whole population. But they are not doing that. They are utilizing land... Just like in Africa I have seen, enough land is there, but what they are doing? They are keeping some cows and bulls, and when they are grown up... They are not given anything to eat. There is enough grass. And as soon as they are fatty, they are taken to the slaughterhouse. Not for their own eating, but exporting. This business is going on. Similar business is going on in Australia and New Zealand. Unnecessarily they are killing these cows, and this shortage of foodstuff and shortage of milk, this is not good arrangement. The recommended process in the Bhagavad-gītā, that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). If you have sufficient foodstuff, then everyone is satisfied. And it is the duty of the vaiśya class, kṛṣi go-rakṣya vāṇijyam (BG 18.44); go-rakṣya vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam. The, according to Bhagavad-gītā, this is the business of the vaiśyas. The brāhmaṇas, they should be very much highly educated, enligthened in spiritual knowledge.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The Ceylon is educated and if they are receiving, why not open a branch?

Hari-śauri: (continues reading) "He recently returned home after almost 3 years in India. My husband and I could see the awareness and maturity in him gained from his experiences in working with the Indian people. He learned first-hand about a different culture and it certainly has enriched his life. In our minds we can compare our son's life to the life of a Catholic monk or a religious Jew of the Hasidic sect. Do I think that my son is brainwashed? I can best answer this by answering the question, is our whole society not being brainwashed daily by the advertisement media? Liquor, smoking, pornographic movies and literature and which is worse? And what about the children who are being educated by the violence and killing on T.V.? I prefer that my son is devoting his life to the love of God and the service of humanity, a rare endeavor in this age. Since I know that my son has voluntarily chosen the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement to exercise these rights and that he can leave it whenever he wishes I cannot see how the term 'brainwashing' can be applicable to this movement. I sincerely believe from my contacts with many devotees that they are happy and have found fulfillment by loving and serving Lord Kṛṣṇa, God. This may not be my wish for my life but my son has chosen it for his, and I whole heartedly respect it."

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is this? Now, you appear to be educated gentlemen, you combine all the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava gosvāmīs, and come with me to fight because there is a world fight now. They are threatened. Their whole civilization is threatened by this movement. That is the position now. Whole Europe and America, they are combining. They are intelligent person, they see that this movement is spreading like epidemic. They have admitted, some of their (indistinct), "If this movement is allowed to advance, then some day they will take our government." They have expressed that feeling. And now they are preparing to fight out. These, all these fathers of these young men, they are combining together to charge me that I am kidnapping their boys. So it is a serious situation, you should not see simply the fun and claim to belong to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Now you should come out to fight. Am I wrong or right.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: I will stay if you hold immediately meeting in this temple. We have got enough space here. First of all you see some leading gosvāmī, and then you chalk out how to fight. All the (indistinct). Now it is question of Kṛṣṇa cult, it is not only Gauḍīya. So take gosvāmīs, some of you and meet all the leaders and hold a meeting, immediately... And explain the whole situation. Let us combine and those who are educated, they should go. We shall arrange for their all expenditure. It doesn't matter. Fight. This is a genuine cult. If you discriminate, that is discrimination against religion, cult. We are accepting everyone but it is a genuine cult. You also Christian, you accept anyone, why you say it is not genuine? That we have to prove. There the Hindus and Indians who are there, they will also join. So immediately hold a meeting. It is very serious situation. (Hindi) This is genuine movement. Why the American government should be discriminating against a genuine religious sect, Kṛṣṇa? Make this company. Prasāda, give him prasāda. Very serious (Hindi) Are you...? Go with him. We have got any car?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated." Similarly, this animal life, eating, sleeping, mating, this is already there. No. We say, "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The modern education means... Just see what is the disastrous condition. For 531 posts, three lakhs people have applied. How the unemployment... This application means they are all educated. Uneducated, they do not apply for any post. That means educated unemployed. This is India's so-called education. Without light it is... You can open door. (break)

Jagadīśa: First thing, I wanted to go over the daily schedule. According to the schedule, the boys get up between 3:30 and quarter to four.

Prabhupāda: Why so early?

Jagadīśa: Why 3:30 and quarter to four? That's what time we all get up.

Prabhupāda: We are holding maṅgala-ārati at five. So why 3:30?

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, accounts are meant for kāyasthas, śūdras. (Indian man laughs) Vaiśyas are meant for producing grain and protecting cows. Yes. According... One Englishman used to say, "This clerical job means educated laborer, educated śūdra." (laughs) Śūdra... Actually the kāyasthas are counted amongst the śūdras. You know that?

Bhagatji: In Bengal kāyasthas is the...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Bengal. Mean in U.P.

Bhagatji: In U.P. kāyasthas are śūdras.

Prabhupāda: And originally they are śūdras. The history of Bengali kāyasthas... They went with the brāhmaṇas as servant. That is the history. And in Bengal the system is... (Bengali saying and Hindi explanation) Actually it is... If some low class man, he becomes rich, then he's taken into the kāyastha community. Anyone who cannot stick to the principle of caste system, he becomes a kāyastha.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this is difficulty. If I say, "Here is a person who knows mathematics," why there should be... Any person who is interested in mathematics will welcome him. So similarly, here is Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means real knowledge. Here is Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge of God, but they misunderstand. They think, "Oh, we have got another God." How God can be another? So people should be sober, that we are giving books. They should understand. And it is accepted by the educated class, big, big professors, big, big philosophers. It is not blind faith. Just like this version of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As we are changing body even in this duration of life, similarly, when this body is finished, then another body," so where is the difficulty to understand? But they will say, "It is Hindu idea." Fact we are presenting, that "You are changing your body. When you came out of the womb of your mother, the body was so small. And then little bigger body, little bigger body, little bigger body. Now you are full grown young man." So the body is changing, everyone can understand, but I can understand also that "I had so big..., small body and this body." Then body is changing; I am existing. Then where is the difficulty of the transmigration of the soul?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That should be educated from the very beginning. Therefore we are opening gurukula, sane brain. Otherwise their brain is spoiled by so-called bad education. I inquired from your state secretary that "You write on the bills, 'In God We Trust,' so why not spread this God consciousness—what is God? You blindly say, 'God in Trust,' but what is God? Do you know? So why not spread this science?" I received no reply up to date. They might have said, "Here is a crazy fellow. Nobody has inquired like this." That's all. They do not like to enter into the controversy. Actually they do not believe in God, but they write, "In God We Trust," is it not?

Dr. Kneupper: That's what they write.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but they don't believe in God. Hypocrisy. Because if they trust in God, then they could not cheat that "I am paying you one thousand dollars by some papers." This is cheating. And promise, "In God I Trust." Is that money? So this cheating is begun from the government. Now, how the people will be honest? Everywhere, in all government, they are giving you some papers and you accept it as money. This is not brainwash. Just see. They are educating people that "I promise to pay. This is money," but actually he's receiving some papers. This is not brainwash. And we are talking of God, that is brainwash.

Dr. Kneupper: Perhaps when people...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is the present situation. When people will be honest, that is future.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Ted Patrick.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And by force trying to give him meat. So now, if educated men of your country, they come forward, understand this philosophy, then combined effort... My philosophy is that American and Indian, American money and Indian culture, combine together; the whole world will be changed. That is my philosophy. It is coming to some extent... (break)

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Kneupper: Thank you very much for your time...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I thank you very kindly. (indistinct) educated boy like you.

Dr. Kneupper: Good. I will communicate what you said.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Dr. Kneupper: I think... As soon as I (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...all human society. It is not a sectarian...

Dr. Kneupper: I'm very glad I had the chance to meet you, to learn... Because when you meet... When you hear things second source... Secondary source, it's not like...

Prabhupāda: Do you think our presentation is all right?

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Stop, but unless you are intelligent, how it can be stopped? If the people are not intelligent, the cheaters will cheat. It is very...

Mr. Saxena: But Swamiji, mostly educated persons, Ph.D, D.Litt., M.A., postgraduates, they are the followers of this.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They are supposed to be very learned but actually they're fools, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These so-called educated, they are bereft of knowledge. They have no common sense. That I was asking this debauch, as God. That also ignorance. He does not know what is God.

Mr. Saxena: Yes, because education is no education now.

Prabhupāda: He does not know.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Their life is spoiled, and so on, so on." So their theory is not without background. There is a background philosophy. And for Western countries, this is a completely new idea. Therefore they are charging, "brainwash." They are not to be blamed because they are, I mean to say, raised in that ideas. Hm? Is it not? Yes. "So this is simply brainwash movement. It has no factual standing." Even our country, what to speak of Western countries. Where the spiritual civilization has a strong background, they are also not believing. Nobody believes Kṛṣṇa is God. Even big, big leaders, what to speak of ordinary men. Especially the so-called educated men. "Bring money anyhow and enjoy life." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). And for money they are doing everything. Black money, white money, yellow money, this money. (laughs) "Bring money and enjoy. Bas. This is life. Why this nonsense Kṛṣṇa consciousness? No this, no this, no this. Ninety-nine per cent no and one per cent yes. What is the value of this movement?" Is it not? Our life is ninety-nine per cent no. No air even. (laughter) So what to speak of other thing. It is very difficult. Therefore in the beginning I was hopeless, that "Who will hear this movement? Simply no." And especially in this country, in Europe. So dull brain. (end)

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You cannot perform the former yajñas by sacrifice tons of ghee and grains because you have no sufficient food grains even. But still, if you chant this saṅkīrtana, that is yajña. Therefore you must take to saṅkīrtana-yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. It is very easy. (break) ...the duty of human being, prāṇaiḥ, with life, arthaiḥ, with money, dhiyā, with intelligence, and vācā, by words. If one sacrifices his life for Kṛṣṇa's cause, then it is first-class. If he cannot sacrifice his life for Kṛṣṇa he can contribute his hard-earned money for Kṛṣṇa. If he cannot do so, if he has no money, he can give some intelligence. If he is not intelligent, then he can give some words. Just like we are doing preaching. We are preaching, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So without any jugglery of words we present to the people that "Here is Bhagavān," kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So giving some words, sacrificing some words... Not that every one of us is very highly educated or very rich. Still, if we carry the words of Kṛṣṇa... As Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), so we have to carry these words, that "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa." Where is the difficulty? It is authorized. Kṛṣṇa says and we simply carry the words. So where is difficulty? So simply by carrying these words that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Te hitam. So it is not for all. One who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee, for him, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man—"You do your prescribed duty." But they have no prescribed duty even. The people of this age, they are so fallen, they have no prescribed duty. They are simply engaged like animals-eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. Animal is engaged like that, eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So we are being educated only like animals. We do not know the value of life, how nature is working, how we are changing our body. No education all over the world. Simply making plans how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy senses, how to defend, that's all. This is animal life. This is not prescribed duty. Prescribed duty is above this. From animal, one has to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, utmost, śūdra, like that. That is prescribed duty. And simply whole day working for eating, sleeping, mating, that is the business of the hog. Hog is also whole day working for eating, sleeping, and sex, and defense. Therefore śāstra says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). You should not live the life of a hog, viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means the stool eater. He is also working day and night.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Who?

Guest (7): Suri Bhavantam (?) is a scientist. He was convinced by him just because of his magical powers. Otherwise he could not influence me. One of my friends who was sitting there, he told me, "Satya Sai Baba, he won't come this side," he said. I said, "I'll make him to come this side."

Prabhupāda: No, these are words. He has been challenged also by a group of educated men. So there are some fools, rascals. That is all...

Guest (7): I have got belief in God, and so Narendra, my friend was sitting by my side. "No, if I sit there only, he will go that way. I want to see him this side."

Prabhupāda: Do you accept Sai Baba as God?

Guest (7): No, no, not at all.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you speak all this? That's...

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Make very nice palatable prasādam. We shall spend for that. Why miserly? There is no need of miserly. You are going to earn money by agricultural produce, so how the money will be utilized? It will be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. By prasādam, by chanting, by drama, somehow or other bring them. That is our mission. Congregational chanting. Always festival, and we shall spend for that. Immediately arrange. If there is scarcity of money, I shall pay, but from... Bring them somehow or other. Tomorrow I want to see at least 500 men. Make arrangement like that. I came here to see that, not to sit down in a room peacefully. So there also we shall inform the meeting that we want to propagate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement town to town, village to village, by attracting them with musical demonstration of saṅkīrtana, dramatic play, movie, prasādam. Somehow or other they should come to the temple, to the pandal and congregationally chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, hear Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam. For this purpose, whatever expenditure is required, that you should collect and spend. This is the scheme of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. You must come here, question, understand, and vigorous propaganda should be inaugurated town to town, village to village. Those who are educated, to them distribution of literature. The school, college, library, institution, university, by scholarly presentation. That is wanted. What is that?

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Sādhu-mārga.

Girirāja: We study the śāstras every morning and evening in all of our centers, so we become educated. (break)

Prabhupāda: Four places, Haridvar, Prayāga, Vṛndāvana.

Mr. Malhotra: But after every 11 years or...?

Prabhupāda: No. It comes in rotation, every four years.

Mr. Malhotra: So there are sort of ardha-kumbhīs and then kumbha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Allahabad they actually hold every year. Māgha-mela.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): But sir, would you not agree that in order to appeal to the masses or to make masses into any movement...

Prabhupāda: No, it is... You see... It is not... If you want to become an educated man or if you want to give first-class education, it is not for the mass. It is for the leader. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the leaders are educated, then others will follow. But if the leaders are not educated, what the others will do? That is the difficulty. And the so-called leaders, without being educated, they become leader.

Guest (1): That's why all this trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They manufacture some idea.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (2): The spread of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in Bombay in the last three, four years has been... I don't know, you may not be satisfied, but I think it's quite good.

Prabhupāda: No, it will be good. If people take to it little seriously, it will be good. Therefore we are spending so much money, that "You come, you all respectable and educated people. Come, try to understand and spread it for the benefit of your country."

Guest (1): But sir, your conclusion here is correct in the sense that they say that "Swami only says you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa what could be done?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, but they have no eyes to see how it is being done all over the world. They do not consider it, what...

Guest (1): How it's done, why it's done, what is the result. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Film-wala...? What is his name?

Girirāja: Devanand?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He purposefully criticized this movement by Hare Kṛṣṇa film.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Their one qualification is that they are not poverty stricken. And our boys, they are poverty stricken. So daridra-doṣa guṇa-rāśi-nāśī.(?) Even though are educated, on account of poverty they sacrificed everything their culture, their knowledge. Daridra-doṣa guṇa-rāśi-nāśī.

Guest (1): Yes, hunger is the cause of all. (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: I chastise them only because they don't care for money. (laughter)

Guest (1): They are extreme. It is contradiction...

Prabhupāda: And because they are fortunate, wherever they go, they get money.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now how is this (indistinct) because the bride and bridegroom is selected by the parents.

Indian man: Yes, the parents would not select that boy.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Indian man: Because parents, as they inquire today, how much you are educated, that was one of the qualifications.

Prabhupāda: So what is the purport?

Indian man: (laughs) I don't know. But to learn all these etiquettes of methods when you are in a sabhā (indistinct) these cabarets and all the... That type of cabaret, how you should behave?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We will leave at 7:25, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. What is the time?

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But you must know it. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: ...makes the way Western civilized people kill, we simply shudder at the very idea. Others, they're not able to, I mean, bear the sight of meat.

Prabhupāda: Our men, those who are not educated, they are better than the... That people may call superstition, but if they are going by the old superstition they would have... I have seen in, sometimes in 1945 or '46, in a train one village girl was sitting and covering. She's young girl, going to her husband's house. What is that? Kane.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Devotee: The thing is, Prabhupāda, in India they know that materialism is wrong because they've been educated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they are being educated that materialism is good, and this so-called spiritual... They do not recognize the spiritual movement. Our government do not recognize any spiritual movement.

Dr. Patel: They interpret secularism as no religion. Rather equal truth to all religions is the real meaning of secularism. The Government tries... (break)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...world will be benefited. Still people observe India.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. He was English born. His father was medical man. Dr. Madanmohan Bannerji.

Dr. Patel: They say he did not know even Bengali properly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How he can? He was born in England. Educated in England. He was English-born.

Dr. Patel: Then he became a master in Sanskrit. That is a great, I mean intelligent...

Prabhupāda: That may be. He was a scholar. They were big scholars. He was professor in Baroda University.

Dr. Patel: Professor of French and Philosophy.

Prabhupāda: There is one hall, Aurobindo Hall, in Baroda.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because they are not conducted by really educated.

Dr. Patel: The education that has been actually put in practice in India by MacCauley was just to prepare people to run their institutions.

Prabhupāda: Where is Girirāja? Can you call him?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He said, Girirāja, that there is some declaration by Vinoda Bhave that "I'm now going to retire."

Dr. Patel: Who? Vinobari.(?) (Vinoda Bhave?)

Prabhupāda: "Completely. And now I shall endeavor for mokṣa." So that means till now he was not on the liberation platform.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He's organizing nicely.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very sincere. He follows all the regulations very rigidly. He gets up in the morning, ideal example.

Jagadīśa: He understands the philosophy quite well.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And he is educated. He is B.Sc. He knows Hindi also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He worked on Hindi translation for some time.

Prabhupāda: Where is that Hindi typewriter?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I never saw that typewriter.

Prabhupāda: Ask Yaśodānandana, Yaśomatī-nandana, immediately. You ask him for my brāhmaṇa... Yes. So very steadily do everything. Opposition will come. We have to face.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So this is the platform of ignorance. And people are so much (indistinct), born into this ignorance. It is very, very difficult to raise them from this ignorance. This is our task. The first business is to convince him that "Your life continues." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). But it is very difficult for the modern man to understand. They have been so poorly educated that it is very difficult. But this is the first beginning of knowledge and if we are in the conception that "I am this body and the body is everything," then we are no better that the cats and dogs. So this is a movement to raise people from the platform of cats' and dogs' life. It is little difficult but we have to do it. That is our mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, para-upakāra. They're living like cats and dogs, do something good for them so that they may live like actual human beings. This is our... So you kindly stay here for some days, read our books and if there is any question, doubt, I shall be very glad to enlighten you.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra...

Guest (1): Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. (Hindi) They are called educated fools.

Prabhupāda: Jñānī murkha. (break) (Hindi)

Guest (1): I have been to Poona where there were some lectures on this Swami Sradhananda. It was fifty years past to his death. So there were some lectures.

Prabhupāda: Sraddhananda, they're Arya-samājis.

Guest (1): Arya-samājis he was, follower of Swami Vivekananda. He was shot down in Delhi, and so... Forty years and there was some ceremony, all these things.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) How it will be fortune? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). (Hindi)

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): How? Mām anusmara yuddhya ca (BG 8.7). Taking the name, believing in full in the name of the Almighty. And we have to try our level best to uplift the society, to make them educate, to guide them, provide them, to bring them on the right path. This is only way.

Trivikrama: Bhagavad-gītā says we need the guru.

Guest (1): Yes, sir, that is right, no doubt. That is correct. So they should understand on where they wanted to go, what is their goal.

Prabhupāda: There is no goal. They think after this body everything is finished.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): Because we are educated. So we have to uneducate ourselves to understand this.

Indian lady (5): Educated does not take away your real culture. So you may be educated, but...

Prabhupāda: This is real culture, Bhagavad-gītā. I'm preaching that, Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Indian lady (5): When Swamiji says, "The Supreme Personality says," where is the doubt and where is the questioning also?

Prabhupāda: I represent as it is, and it is being accepted. (Indians talking at once)

Guest (1): Swamiji, what is the way out now? We have understood the present position, and you have also realized. You have seen the... And I don't want to take... I know that this ten-minutes' talk will not bring any satisfaction on either side. Now that has put me into a new thinking, that she's presently more worried about...

Prabhupāda: That is a politics. You must be worried. You must be worried. That is material world. So so long you are in the material platform, you must be worried. There is no exception. And I have seen in that time, how much worried she was at that time. Yes. So it does not mean because she is Prime Minister, there is no worry. It is not possible.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, jñānī... One can become jñānī in a moment, provided he wants. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. So if one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he's jñānavān. Otherwise he's a rascal. So if you don't teach how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then he remains a rascal. That's all.

Indian (1): It is our duty to teach, to educate the people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is education, that "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise he's not education.

Indian (1): To guide them how to surrender the Almighty. That is our duty.

Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is Almighty. And Almighty is canvassing, and people are refusing. Almighty says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So here is Almighty, but who is teaching that "Here is Almighty. Surrender to Him"?

Indian (1): That is asuri sampatti.

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Indian man: Swamiji, I get two thoughts. Number one: having acquired a family, I am willing to renounce, but would I not be running away from the responsibility, in the name of Lord Kṛṣṇa, for the bringing up and educating the children? And second thing...

Prabhupāda: You cannot educate, neither you bring. This is māyā. Do you think... Do you think that only in your presence your children will be happy? There are... Just see here in the corner, the father, mother, and the child is always, twenty-four hours, crying. The father, mother, is there. They are poor men, they are taking care, but still, the child is unhappy; it is crying twenty-four hours. There are many you'll find. So does it mean that in the presence of father, mother, a child is happy? Everyone is being conducted by his destiny. The father, mother, may be there or may not be there; his destiny will go on. This is the law of nature. You see here. Do you mean to say, because that man is poor, he's not taking care of the child? Why the child is crying twenty-four hours? So if one child is made to cry by his destiny, even in the presence of his father, mother, he has to cry. Nobody can make him happy.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Crows will never come to a nice place. They'll go to the filthy place, where everything rubbish is thrown out. The crow will take advantage of it: "Oh, here is enjoyable thing." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. So we have been educated to become vāyasa, crows, useless black bird. There are other birds also, but these... Amongst the birds, these crows are most disliked by everyone. So our present literature and taste of literature is like that, crows. "Ka, ka, ka, ka." Even amongst the birds, they'll find swan, white swan. And they're black crows. Nature's division is so nice. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā (SB 1.5.10). That is rejected by the mānasā. Mānasā means the birds who live in the māna-sarovara, just like ducks and swans.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Haṁsas. They live in a very nice clean water, garden. Uśanti mānasā. They do not go there. Now they are making so much propaganda against our men, but these boys will never go to cinema. Uśanti mānasā. They are boys. They have no attraction, restaurant and cinema. You'll never find. Uśanti mānasā. They have rejected. And we see others—they are making line, queue. Yes. Why? Vāyasaṁ tīrtham. They like that. Crows like... They have been educated like crows.

Dr. Patel: They feed on the filth. This is one difficulty. All people are mad after the cinema.

Prabhupāda: They will wait four hours, five hours, standing. Why cinema? I have seen in London the British Museum. Something came there. From morning there is a queue. Exactly like that, they were standing to go and see the museum. Something came. I... Three, four years ago I saw. They were standing. Just like here. For purchasing the cinema ticket they are standing and eating nampalli, just to see, eyesight. They will not come to see Deity in the temple. They'll not come. Mentality is different. It is a very dangerous civilization, soul-killing civilization. We should be very, very careful if we want success also. We shall go now? (end)

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Mass of people, let them chant and dance and take prasāda. So these centers are being opened for mass movement as well as class movement. In the village there is... Hardly you'll get good, educated men. So there is no question of philosophy. Given them chance of chanting and take prasāda. It is useless to talk before them our philosophy. They'll never understand. But they will understand prasādam. Prasādam is so nice. If there are few grains of prasāda, even the crows will come, the condemned bird. (laughs) He will also come. You do like this. So if this has been settled, do that.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very natural. So I see the dolls... Intelligent boys, they can do it, educated, intelligent. Very good, nice. So many students are engaged...

Rāmeśvara: This is like pottery. Spinning on the wheel, he is designing the ornaments for the crown. Each doll of the demigods has a different crown. That's how they make them, on a spinning wheel just like a potter.

Prabhupāda: They are devising their own way. Eh?

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: They cannot accuse us of brainwashing when we have so much artwork and publishing work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. It is good for your nation. Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.

Rāmeśvara: These are the heads for the Śeṣa-naga of this Mahā-Viṣṇu exhibit. They are made from rubber and they have all the details.

Prabhupāda: Acchā. How rubber you make mold?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: His argument was that if God comes to this world and displays activities with women, it is natural that the followers of that religion will also want to have affairs with women.

Prabhupāda: No. Because they have not studied Kṛṣṇa, they misunderstand in that way. You are fond of woman. Kṛṣṇa comes to show you that in the Vaikuṇṭha, Goloka Vṛndāvana, there is woman, but not in this way. Originally there is. That is pure. So it requires education. You are not educated; you cannot talk. Now sex..., even in our material experience we find that by sex many great men has been found. So how you can accuse sex? You are talking. We should say, "You are a product of sex. So how do you say that sex is bad?"

Rāmeśvara: They say that when one man has many different women, then that is immoral.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all answer. Suppose you are a big man, but you are product of sex. Are you born differently or through sex? What is the answer?

Rāmeśvara: Sex.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: People go to college in America; they can no longer get jobs. They spend so many years going to college getting their degree. So now they cannot find any jobs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the position in America. And what to speak of this country. Therefore, after being educated they go to foreign countries. You'll find so many Indians in educational labs(?) in your country, because they don't get any suitable jobs. (break) ...their so many departments will be closed.

Rāmeśvara: It's possible in India but not in America.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Rāmeśvara: The American people are... They consider it backwards. Prabhupāda: That has to be educated, that backward is real life.

Rāmeśvara: They think they have achieved a higher standard of freedom by traveling all over the world...

Prabhupāda: Where is your freedom? Where is your freedom if for your livelihood you have to go a hundred miles? Where is your freedom? Why you are illusioned? For your bread, you have to go hundred miles off, either by car or by train. So where is your freedom?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That we want.

Rāmeśvara: ...we will have to tolerate all these things—cinema, nightclubs. How can we close all these things? The people want these things.

Prabhupāda: No. If you educate people, if you give them better enjoyment, they'll give up.

Rāmeśvara: Very gradual.

Prabhupāda: Just like our men. They are not after cinema or brothel house or restaurants. It requires education.

Hari-śauri: We have to make them devotees.

Rāmeśvara: But can all the masses of people become devotees?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, cent percent devotees, by this process: ask them to chant and take prasāda.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That is not culture. That is not culture. As soon as you change, that means it is not culture. It is mano-dharma, mental concoction. Culture is never changed, Renaissance and (sic:) Fennaissance.

Rāmeśvara: This is something that has been constant for many hundreds of years, the idea that a man is learned when he is well-learned, when he is educated in many different fields-literature, art, music.

Prabhupāda: That does not mean the original culture will be lost. That is not culture.

Rāmeśvara: No. But this is their argument, that the standard in America is that you become learned in different fields: science, music, art, literature. But in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement we are isolating all these things and simply reading one set of literature-Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Now they say if we are thinking of our members to be gentlemen, then why is it when they go to the airports they are bothering so many people?

Prabhupāda: They are not bothering; they are educating. You take... A rascal, when he is advised... A thief when he's advised, "Kindly do not become a thief," he takes it botheration, but that is good advice.

Rāmeśvara: They say it is invasion of privacy.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Why privacy?

Rāmeśvara: They say every man has the right to think the way he wants.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I have go the right to think like that.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No. Why monarchy? You can continue democracy, but the legislators should be first-class men who has knowledge, not these rascals.

Rāmeśvara: But the real problem is the businessmen, because they can influence the mass of people by advertising.

Prabhupāda: The mass of people should be educated. Just like we are educating, "No meat-eating." So automatically the meat-selling, slaughterhouse will be stopped.

Rāmeśvara: There must be some controls. Otherwise...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Control must be there, that... This is very easy. The state cannot support or maintain slaughterhouse. If you want to eat meat, you kill animal at your home. But state cannot. So mass sinful activities, state cannot. So if the legislators and the head of the state are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will understand the importance of this. So they can stop slaughterhouse. And the public agitation? "You can slaughter animal at your home. You have got the liberty, but state cannot maintain." What is the wrong there?

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: But in America the government cannot tell the publishing house, "You can only have Kṛṣṇa conscious books." They are tolerating books about sex, books about crime...

Prabhupāda: No, if you educate public that these are nasty things, in the school, colleges, where government has control, then automatically sale will be stopped.

Gurudāsa: Naturally.

Prabhupāda: If you educate people, "Don't waste your time," then they will stop. They are controlling in Russia, publication.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, and China also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Tax invention? What is that?

Rāmeśvara: They call themselves educational organizations. They are educating the public because they do speaking engagements at colleges and different places. So on the basis of that, they applied to the federal government, "Please, we are just an educational group. You must give us tax exemption." So they have been given that. Now people can donate money to them. Instead of paying taxes to the U.S. government, they can donate money to them in exchange for paying taxes. (laughs) So the fighting will get more...

Prabhupāda: Intense.

Rāmeśvara: This year, definitely. But that means more propaganda for us, more publicity.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But actually people all over the Western world then became convinced that one day science will create life. This popularized the idea.

Prabhupāda: How rascal they have been educated. Mūḍha.

Rāmeśvara: And the only problem was he had the wrong brain.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: They took the brain from a known criminal and put it inside the dead man. So when he came back to life he was a demon. That's their only problem, they say. If they'd only taken a brain from a dead body who was a good man, then everything would have been all right.

Prabhupāda: Why do you not take the brain of scientist and make another scientist? Why you should, they should regret "That this scientist is dead"?

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: When I was there, there were many doctors and lawyers, and I think all of them have been murdered. I think the only Hindus that are left are the poor people. But while I was there the teachers and the lawyers... The most prominent lawyer was Hindu. Doctors, all educated men.

Prabhupāda: Dead.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see the policy.

Gargamuni: But they, I think annihilated all of the... Anyone who had any education... Just like that boy. He was translating your books? They shot him in front of firing squad. One boy. I printed one book there in Bengali, I think, three thousand copies: The Peace Formula and Who is Crazy, I think. It was about fifteen pages. They gave me some donation. Even the Gopāla... His name was Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Brahmacārī. He also gave me from his pocket. And I printed... We had it translated in Bengali, but then...

Prabhupāda: He was killed?

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Only fault that he was making some...

Gargamuni: No, his fault was that he had some education. Anyone who was doing anything... This one boy who was translating your books, he was a very educated person. He was about thirty years old.

Prabhupāda: Hindu.

Gargamuni: Hindu. Yes. He was brahmacārī there at the āśrama. He was the chief pūjārī. But he joined us. We toured a few areas, and he came with us and arranged for everything. And he joined us, and he was translating.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Now take this.

Gargamuni: And we printed the book. I saw it. But then the war broke out a few days after it was ready, so I had to leave all the copies there. When I go there I will try and find it. Maybe it is still there. We spent about five hundred rupees. Five, six hundred rupees.

Prabhupāda: What Pakistan has gained by this separation? Actually they have not gained.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And you can start a center there. That will be very good. And when they see that Americans are taking, the Muhammadans will be attracted.

Gargamuni: Yes. No, I found them... They weren't so fanatic. The Bengali Mussulmans are not like the others. They're very nice.

Prabhupāda: Educated.

Gargamuni: Well, I spoke with students.

Prabhupāda: Oh. They're educated.

Gargamuni: Yes. And most of the business and industry is in the hands of the Mussulmans. But they... We walked around like this, and there was no trouble—at that time.

Prabhupāda: They have got a Bengali language.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: In the railways. There were five hundred posts vacant, and the application was three lakhs. Every time this is the... Many educated... Therefore they became Naxalites.

Gargamuni: Yes. These Naxalites come from the educated classes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: What is that Naral...?

Prabhupāda: Naxalite means...

Gargamuni: Terrorists. Communists.

Prabhupāda: Regular dacoits, thieves, rogues. "Pay me; otherwise kill you." And if you don't, kill you. That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The temple is nice, and let us renovate it and establish our center, and gradually, if Americans preach there, the Muhammadans will come. If Hindu preach, they'll take otherwise. But when they see the Americans have come, they'll take it little seriously. And now we have got philosophy. At least the educated class will understand. You take that, and it will be a great triumph. My Guru Mahārāja will be pleased. He established that temple, and Tīrtha Mahārāja was selling it. But he has no power to go there. He was exchanging. I told you that that I went to the donor and asked him that "Your temple is being exchanged with a Muhammadan." So they took it seriously, and they stopped it. This temple was donated by one big zamindar. They live in Sababazar.(?) They have got enough property in Dacca, big zamindar, Balihet. How he dared to exchange the temple established by Guru Mahārāja for a house in Calcutta? Just what kind of person he was, just imagine.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: They're not educating the population in brahmācārya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Therefore these beggars are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is gentlemanly, that "Why shall I take responsibility of family if I cannot maintain them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. That is civilization. "And I accept so-called family for sense gratification; I cannot maintain them and kill them"—what is this? Is that civilization? They should be ashamed to be called civilized men. Here is civilized way. Preach this because the Vedic civilization is real civilization. "You are not civilized. You have killed Jesus Christ who instructed, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should be ashamed of your present civilization. It is... Brainwash is required."

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Guest (2): Yesterday one of my colleagues asked me, "What is this (Bengali)?" But we, the parents of Mother Earth forget about it. But Swamiji has started it not only Europe, America, he has started universal... Except India (Bengali)... You said that you are educated man, you go and hear lecture.

Prabhupāda: No, we are recognized by all educated circle all over the world. If you read the opinions of scholars.

Guest (2): We have read many of your publications. And I was just telling him like dharma that "Swamiji has done only one thing, that he has made the universe not only contained to India. He has made the whole world conscious about Kṛṣṇa. To know about Kṛṣṇa at least, the real Kṛṣṇa. Or the superpower. He has made this point.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to progress very cautiously, very cautiously, not irresponsibly. That is our point.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They are making... Therefore I was saying... The Russians, they have made a propaganda to show, but nobody purchases their literature. Nobody purchases, either educated or uneducated. Maybe few interested. But they are making vigorous propaganda to spread their literature. They have been unsuccessful.

Rāmeśvara: No one believes it. Whatever they write, no one believes that it is the truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So their opening a showroom is one of the item of their propaganda. But we cannot make that, make an experiment. No, that is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: It is commonly known that the Russians are spending more money on national defense, weapons...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Not only that, modern educated youths, they are not inclined to come to the farm. So they're giving up their own father's property, farm. They do not come back from city. The farmers' children go to cities for education, and after so-called education the rascals do not come. Here also and in your country also, America and... They want city life and enjoy restaurant and prostitute.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Qualified, that is not very difficult. For the girl, find out a boy who is hard worker or a little educated. Bas. That's all. That was the selection. Then fortune. You give a daughter under the care of the boy who can work hard. That's all. They then will earn their livelihood. Even there is no education, a hard worker will do. A boy, as soon as has got the sense that "I have got a wife to maintain," he'll work. That is impetus to give him to work for the family. And if a boy gets wife or woman without any hard working, they why he should marry? And if he has got responsibility that "I have to maintain my wife; then I can enjoy," then he becomes responsible. Wooden bridge?

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He is also... He becomes recognized by the master. "Oh, he is trying for this, what I want." Naturally he becomes immediately recognized, although he has no qualification. If he tries. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become guru. No qualification required. Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said." Just see how simplified. Don't talk anything nonsense. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-bas. So who cannot do it? Anyone can do it, even a child. (laughs) Our Śyāmasundara's daughter. She was preaching, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" They said, "No I have got no..." "The Supreme Personality." This is preaching, simply if you say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, supreme controller. Just be obedient to Him." Where is the difficulty? Anyone can preach. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Three words: Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; surrender unto Him; and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Your life will be successful. What is the difficulty in preaching these three words? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Even a child like Sarasvatī, she can preach. Then what to speak of others? Those who are educated, grown-up, advanced, they can put the matter more nicely, more convincingly, more philosophically. That is another thing. But these three words, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord; you are servant; and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa"—bas, preaching complete. Very simple thing and the sublime instruction.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He's satisfied, poor man. Then in the, say, ten to twelve he'll purchase some dāl. He'll go home to home. He'll make another two rupees' profit. In the evening he'll take some kerosene oil, and he'll sell. Evening everyone requires kerosene oil. He'll make another two rupees. So he's illiterate. He makes six rupees' profit, five rupees' profit, and if he can, ten rupees' profit. And takes some chana cho(?), some peanuts, sit down. In this way he's independently earning five to ten rupees. And educated? He's just like dog—"Give me job"—and unemployed and eating at the cost of father or welfare activities, welfare department, and moving like dog. Just see practically. The uneducated, he's earning because he knows that "If I go with application, what education I have got? Nobody will like me." He's hopeless in that way. "So let me try in my own way." He's earning ten rupees. And the other man, he's starving and taking help from the government, eating at the cost of father. This is education. Otherwise he is becoming hippie. Is that education? And in the Vedic system—education for the brāhmaṇa, how to learn to be truthful, how to control senses, how to become educated in Vedic knowledge.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is our misfortune. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Kṛṣṇa is personally speaking, but the mūḍhas and narādhamas, they will not hear to Kṛṣṇa. They have been described... Those who do not hear from Kṛṣṇa or His representative, they have been described, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ: "Most sinful, rascals, mūḍha, gādhā, and lowest of the mankind." This is their position. It is not my manufacture. It is Kṛṣṇa's... Find out this, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. "No, there are so many educated..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These rascals have taken: "Why shall I hear Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I accept Kṛṣṇa as God?" Āsuri-bhāvam. This is the basic principle of defect. Hm?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: It is horrible to hear even. Therefore para-upakāra. The rascals are less than the asses and dogs. Therefore to give them Kṛṣṇa is the best para-upakāra.

Gurukṛpā: Yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were speaking about a man who becomes very educated but he can't get a job. He becomes like a dog. Well, I was reading in the paper that this one man in Sydney, he put an ad in the newspaper saying, "I will become your house dog, because I think a dog's life is better than my life because I cannot get a job. So now I want to have a job as a human dog. Anybody want to hire me?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If these people are making against our movement, so we should not be surprised. The parents who are leaving their children, dropping their children—"Yes, go and have homosex dancing"—if such parents protest against our movement it is not at all astonishing. But we should not stop it for that reason. This is apparent. So this thing should be brought in the court, that "This is the parent. The parent also requires this brainwash. Why the sons and daughters only? The father, mother..."

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: (laughing) The people who speak the local language can't read it. So the signs are useless. Anybody who is educated enough to read it can read...

Prabhupāda: English language understood. English... They speak in English. In big, big cities like Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, even the girls, young girls, they would like to speak in English. They don't like to speak in their... At home even, with their father and mother, they're speaking in English. Especially in Bombay, everyone speaks. Not now. I have connection with Bombay since 1927. In 1927 I first went to Bombay. So how many years? Fifty years? I have seen it. They speak in English. They are sending their children where education is given by medium, English. High-class men, they send their children to learn through medium of English. There is Calcutta, St. Julia's College, near our college near our temple.

Satsvarūpa: Hindu College?

Prabhupāda: No. St. Julia's. All Indian students, all very rich man's sons. I sent my sons to English, St. Mary's High School and St. Teresa's school. Learned English very nicely. Scottish Churches College. I was educated in Scottish... All our professors European, Englishmen and Scotsmen.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: They're very much wanted in other countries as well. They're technicians.

Prabhupāda: So if you can educate people, they will be united. This is actually united nations movement. Actually see how these Europeans, Americans, and Africans, and others, without any artificial allurement, how we are keeping together. Nobody is dissatisfied with humble eating, humble living, humbly, plain living. So it is possible. There is possibility. We live simple life, high thinking-United Nation. We can possibly... And there will be no scarcity. If we live simple life with Kṛṣṇa conscious thinking, There will be no scarcity.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: But when we start to explain the meaning, then they're a little bit suspicious because they don't tolerate other type of religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why...? Let them chant and take prasāda. This preaching, that's all. Later on, when they're a little advanced, then talk of philosophy. Otherwise there is no need of philosophy. If they are, some of them, educated, they can read the books voluntarily. But general process is anywhere, any part of the world, you simply give them chance of chanting and take prasāda. That will be peaceful.

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda? Is it possible to see the lot of films now? (?)

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Pṛthu-putra: Because I went to some universities. They have big, big universities in Cairo and in every places in North Africa, because now they try to be educated. The white Africans, they have some intelligence to understand to a certain extent philosophy, because when I was talking about the Bhagavad-gītā, when I showed the table of contents, they more or less agreed to take interest in it because they didn't see anything specific about another religion, another God. They were seeing the titles like "Confidential Knowledge," "Transcendental Knowledge," "Karma-yoga," "Jñāna-yoga." They are very interested about knowing these things.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Pṛthu-putra: I was living with one whole family. Sometimes I cooked prasāda for them, and they like it very much. They like us as a person.

Prabhupāda: Simply follow this. Give them prasādam and let them chant. That is preaching. And if they're educated, let them read books. Then gradually, he'll automatically come. (break)

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is beginning. That's all right.

Pṛthu-putra: Because I've found in these universities, the educated persons, they're very interested about philosophy coming from India.

Prabhupāda: Gradually they'll be more interested. So handle them with little care.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Has to be handled with very much care actually. But I went in this dhoti even and they were not so...

Prabhupāda: Happy.

Pṛthu-putra: ...surprised. No, no, they were not so surprised. They were wondering how can I wear such a dress. So, but the difficulty is they immediately associate with the idea that I was a religious man, being in such a dress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, in Muhammadan country also, there is dress like this. They are called peet.(?)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I think we can pretty much convince the academic circles rather easily. Our philosophy is so strong and powerful that I think we can make a good presentation in the educated circles, especially colleges and universities.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is nice. So that we are trying. We have got already books in the educated circles.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Not only books, but good solid presentation, to make...

Prabhupāda: That is... That you are. In our Institute you lecture.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think our journal, the Sa-Vijñānam, will be...

Prabhupāda: Able to...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: By Prabhupāda's mercy, I think, it will be very useful in making contact with the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So when you are going to publish?

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is also another foolishness. How much water he'll carry by pipe? (aside:) Where is pole. Take water from God. That is sufficient. Navadit tarims ca.(?) When there is water supplied by God, where there is no need of water there will be water. Just like on the hills, on the mountains, there is no need of water. In the ocean there is no need of water. But the God... "All right, take water here also." That is God's gift. You rascal, how much water you have got that you transport by pipe and this and that...? All rascals. Mūḍha. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. That is my language, always these are all rascals. Godless means mūḍha, rascal, duṣkṛtina. They will attempt so many things, simply waste their time and energy. Duṣkṛtina. Because they are rascals. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). And a human being should have intelligence, but they are lower, lowest status of the human being. Mūḍha, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. "No, the university education..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Everything is analytically spoken. Why all these things? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because godless, no intelligence. Anyone who is godless, he has no intelligence. This is the conclusion. They are intelligent amongst the similar rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's intelligentsia among the dogs, among the camels, among the hogs, and the asses. They will praise them, "Oh, you are so intelligent. You are so educated."

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But they are the topmost devotees. These (chuckling) uneducated, without any town life, cow-men, they are Kṛṣṇa's best friend. Unsophisticated, no education, but love intense—that is perfect. That attracted Kṛṣṇa more. Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya na padam ekaṁ (sic:) na kartavya... Kṛṣṇa is so much attached to Vṛndāvana that He goes nowhere... What is that? They are not educated girls, up-to-date fashion, (indistinct) or nothing. Crude. As soon as there was blowing of the flute, immediately they began to run towards Kṛṣṇa. Somebody is taking care of children, somebody is engaged in boiling milk, and somebody was even lying down with her husband. Still, immediately... Very crude, unsophisticated, but intense love for Kṛṣṇa—that is Vṛndāvana. We want to introduce this farm project means intense love for Kṛṣṇa. And other things—very simple: little milk, little food grain, little vegetable, that's all. And that is very nice. If you get fresh vegetable, fresh milk, and food grain, what do you want more? And from milk you can prepare so many nice preparations, unlimited number, all very palatable, sweet.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We live on the mercy and the guidance of the guru every moment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is para-upakāra. People are in so darkness. So give them some knowledge as far as possible. This is real para-upakāra, doing welfare, to give Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is scientist. He is trying to give among the scientists because his jugglery of words will counteract their jugglery of words. But our aim is very nice, that the rascal may be educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you are expecting some success?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah... Yes, by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: At least they are trying to understand.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That lecture that I gave, we made... Sadāpūta made that design so it's very attractive to science. That's from our Back to Godhead photograph. Fixed it up.

Prabhupāda: If they simply understand that all these laws of nature is going on under the direction of God... They are studying the laws of nature, how things are happening. But simply they have to understand that it is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is philosophy. Philosophy is the science of science. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). The science of science.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
(Bs. 5.1)

So try it, to educate these rascal, world of rascals. Take it that this world of rascals. Don't give them any credit. Unless he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, don't give any credit. Then you become a rascal. Just like the same example as it is given in the SB.., that one dog, one camel, one ass, one hog is praising a lion. So does it mean the lion is not animal? He may be a big, rascal animal, and he is praised by these small rascals. So here the big rascal is being praised by small rascal. That's all. But they're all rascals. We are seeing the praising group and the man who is praised—both of them are rascals. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). We don't give them any credit. They may be angry upon us that we do not give anyone credit. But that is our business. We take them all rascals. That our... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvataḥ (SB 5.18.12).

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: See. How foolish. Billions of dollars they are spending for a false thing, and they are educating. Durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ. (chuckling) It is stated in the SB.. They're proposing something which is not the fact, which will never be possible. still, they'll do.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In fact, there's one member from here from India, he's in Bombay, that Atomic Research Institute. He's one of the (indistinct) members in this study of the origin of life from chemicals. And if it's possible we would like to give a lecture there in the...

Prabhupāda: He is talking nonsense also?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: All of them.

Prabhupāda: A nonsense society. "International Society of Nonsense."

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So our point is the devotees shall work. So there is no program to pay wages.

Jayapatākā: Gradually, more and more, we're getting more devotees who can work in the agriculture. But to date, most of the people that join are either the handloomers or... We're getting mostly handloomers and to some extent some more learned, more educated boys.

Prabhupāda: Not labor class.

Jayapatākā: Not labor class. But we need them also for translation and other things. So to make up the gap them we had to hire. But that's lessened... Now we're getting also. Some labor class are joining.

Prabhupāda: So hire. That also he can become devotee. He can spare fifty percent of his income. Then he becomes a devotee. Hiring men and working, I don't think that will be very profitable. Then we can purchase from the market.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But in, say in America, they argue that everybody's educated now. In America...

Prabhupāda: What educated? Educated means hippies. That's all. This is their education. They do not know what is meant by education. Education... University student was informed that "Next birth you may become a dog," so he said, "What is the wrong there?" This is education. Is that education, that he agrees to become a dog very happily? There is no education. Simply waste of time.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: If that's done then how will those who have some potential to be educated, how will we recognize them?

Prabhupāda: Either educate them or control them. Give them facility of education. But there is no education at all. Even for the whites there is no education. So we are stressing on the point of education. You educate certain section as brāhmaṇa, certain section as kṣatriya, certain section as vaiśya. In that education we don't discriminate because he's coming of a śūdra family. Take education. Be qualified. Then you talk. Not by votes.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such an important animal. And then, when she passes stool and urine, that is also nice. The milk is nutritious, the stool is useful; the urine is useful. Why this poor animal should be slaughtered? What kind of civilization? Your material desires, eating, sleeping, mating-fulfill it like a gentleman and save time and make spiritual advancement. This is to be introduced. Why you are inventing so strenuous work and spoil time, valuable time of human life? This we want to preach. Save time, be spiritually advanced, and other necessities, make it gentlemanly short-cut. If you save time, you can read all these literatures, understand what is value of life. Therefore, the literature here. Not for all. The brāhmaṇas, educated. And they'll distribute the knowledge by speaking. Others, those who are less intelligent, simply by hearing, they will be guided. Just be convinced what kind of civilization we are trying to introduce. We should not be carried away. Then finished. In order to check others, if we become carried away, (laughing) then finish all business.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think about 1928, long ago, because about twenty years ago there was centenary, hundred years. So the local produce was not exported. Everything was cheap in the village because you have to consume. Whatever is produced in the village you have to consume. And these Britishers, they introduced railway and drew everything in the village to the town. And they would not sell in the village because they would get good price in the city. Otherwise in the village, everything was very cheap, very, very cheap-milk, vegetables, rice, dāl, everything. And the Britishers, they had no food. They have got only the potato. In England what they produce? No food. So everything was exported. Their policy was to supply manufactured goods and take raw materials from India. So they supplied cotton goods. They saw that all Indians are using cotton cloth. Iron they introduced. They introduced railway line, all iron, the carriage, the wheel, the road. Everything was... In this way they became prosperous. And the Indian people, they saw... They were educated because they are fond of going to pilgrimage by walking. They would go... Suppose from here, Navadvīpa, one has to go to Vṛndāvana. He would make his will, because he does not know whether he'll come back or not. Long distance, thousand miles, you have to go by, on leg. They used to go. So they were advertised that "No. Now you'll have not to walk. The Company, they're making very easy going railway." So they received it, "Oh! (Hindi)" (laughs) But their idea was to draw all the raw materials from villages and send it to England.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And they thought, "Oh, how beneficial the English, British Company. They're giving us so much facility." And English education, they wanted to conduct their office affairs. They required some clerk. They did not want any highly educated. "Work here—ABCD—that's all. 'Yes, no, very good.' Bas." (laughs) So... And as soon as you learn "Yes, no, very good," you get fifty rupees' salary. So they gave up living in... That time fifty rupees is now five thousand. Yes. So they all entered school, English education—"ABCD, yes, no, very good. Bas." And this is British policy. Otherwise India was very happy.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That cannot appeal to the higher educated person.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:There's nothing to it. Not giving knowledge of God.

Prabhupāda: And their behavior...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is abominable.

Prabhupāda: The injunction is "Thou shall not kill." They are simply killing. How it will be effective?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The priests are doing all rascal nonsense. Homosex.

Prabhupāda: They announced that...(?) There is a hospital for drunkard priest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Alcoholic priests.

Prabhupāda: And they have introduced gambling.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: As other things are giving brain. Just like a dull, a dull child is educated and he passes M.A. examination. He becomes very intelligent person by education. This is their education. Even if you have no brain, I can give you brain. So it is not brainwashing; it is brain-giving. But because you are rascal, you'll not accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This will not be very popular with the common people, to be told...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People will not very much appreciate being told they have no brains.

Prabhupāda: Actually it is that. "No intelligence" you can say.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to educate them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ. The rascal people, they do not know how life is going on, and they are creating anarthas. Therefore vidvān, Vyāsadeva, vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. So this is the position. Mūrkhāṇām upadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. "If you try to advise rascal, he'll be angry."

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is wrongly said by...? So you should be convinced that the Western people, they have no brain. Now this is brain-giving movement, para-upakāra. They have no brain, and we have to educate them. Brain there is. The human brain is meant for that purpose. Even one is an ass, dull, he can be educated. That is their facility. Animals cannot be educated, but human being, even he is born like animal... Just like these children. If you don't educate them, they will remain like that, fools and rascals. If you educate, they'll be nice. So they require to cleanse their brain. Why they are...? That we have to prove. This is the opportunity. They should admit honestly that they have no brain. Now this movement is brain-giving movement. Hm? You are Tripurāri. Tripura was the place for the demon, and ari, ari means enemy. You should know very well. The Western people are very much proud of manufacturing very complicated machines. They sometimes report, "We have manufactured this. We have manufactured this." Do they not say?

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll leave. So we should not encourage that at all. I think it's different than here.

Prabhupāda: No, their attention should be in chanting. And produce their own food, agriculture. And as soon as they get English education, then... Not "as soon as," but not all of them are fit for being educated. It is not possible. They are śūdra class of men. What he will be educated? Śūdra, vaiśya, they should learn how to plow, how to produce food. They are thinking otherwise, that "Plowing is great labor. If we educate our boys in English, they can go to the city. Immediately they get some..."

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we're the only... I think that what you are telling us is perfect in that now what we have to do is we have to vigorously explain our philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the only way. We have to educate them. If we remain silent now, then we will become squashed. We have to speak positively. "Yes, this is why... We are like this because of the following reasons."

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is good for human being. That you have to convince. And actually that is fact. They are in ignorance. And they are advertising as scientist, philosopher-false propaganda. That is my view from the very beginning. They are nothing, all bokās. My Guru Mahārāja used to say. In the beginning I could not understand, that "Why he says everyone is bokā?" (laughs) Actually that is fact. They do not know the value of life.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: American brāhmaṇas. Go-brāhmaṇa. American milk, American brāhmaṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja has organized the life membership program to send the Indian members milk sweets in the mail every week from the farm. Burfi, sandeśa.

Prabhupāda: They also like. And in America, the Indians are there, they are all educated. They're not low-class men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They read your books carefully.

Prabhupāda: This... There are some statements. Just like molten iron, a man can break for illicit sex. What is their objection?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well they think it's superstition. They think it is simply some stories.

Hari-śauri: Some fantastic...

Prabhupāda: Story means it is story for you. Do you know the details of the whole universe, where, what is what? Can you do? You go and say there is no moonshine, but this rascal conclusion will be taken. Why there should be shine? From the sand such brilliant moonshine is coming? We have to believe that? So many books have said (indistinct) brilliant. Sun is brilliant. This... So you rascal, you can believe in that, but we'll not believe. You can say. What do you know about moon? It is all rascaldom. It may be good for rascals like you, not for intelligent man like me.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They don't have it.

Prabhupāda: No. "But you do not know. We get this information, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). Eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Therefore we are trying for that. But you are so dull, in spite of having so many... Therefore the resultant action is you are producing hippies at the end. And how you can be satisfied anymore? They are disgusted with this eating, sleeping, mating business. Now you'll have only hippies." They're disgusted with this system of education, because it is not education at all. This is keeping them in ignorance. "Dog is lying on the street, and a man is lying on the hundred second floor. What is the result? Result is sleeping. Is that improvement? The dog is sleeping very peacefully; you are sleeping-'Oh, there is tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Save me! Save me.' Will that skyscraper building help you in your mental agitation? Is that education? Everyone is taking pill to sleep. You cannot sleep even peacefully, and you are claiming that you are educated." Give this defense. "Here the dog can sleep very peacefully. You cannot sleep even peacefully. This is the resultant action of your so-called education. You are proud of this education, this life, this civilization. You are so brainless, it requires to be washed. Therefore we say it is full of stool. We have come to wash it. That is our thankless duty." What can be done?

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: We are washing their brains because they have not washed the brains of their children.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is brainwashing, educating. (break) "You take this. This is our aim. Remain brahmacārī, no bother. Is that bad? You will have your sex unrestricted and make your wife pregnant and kill him and eat him. You'll be implicated with so many sinful activities, and if I say, if you are so much afraid, 'Don't have sex,' what is the wrong there? And you are thinking, 'Oh? No sex? It is so brainwashing, mind-controlling.' But what is... You want that in a sinful way. We want in a pious way."

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Vāsudeva-parā vedā vāsudeva-parā... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). This is wanted. At least, one must know. Why they should be kept in darkness? What is this civilization? They have got light. The knowledge is there. They can be educated. And unnecessarily they are kept into darkness. Is that civilization? Others may do it. They have no knowledge. Why India? India should now stand up—"Stop this nonsense." They have got this culture. That is India's mission. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma. India cannot tolerate this. Do you follow? When... Even it is not possible to introduce this movement in a large scale, there is no harm. Anyone who takes it, he is happy. It is very difficult. We are not expected that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3), everyone will be able to do it. But the ideal should be there. And it is India's duty to keep this ideal, Indian people's duty, government's duty. That will keep India's prestige in the highest level. Make propaganda like that. Why India should be lowered down unnecessarily while we have got so much stock of knowledge, scientific knowledge? Am I right?

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why? It doesn't matter, only a few persons may take, but the ideal must be there. And preach all over the world. For me it will be difficult to move everywhere, but so long my life is there, I'll give you hint. You develop it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So far in Manipur, most people in the educated class, they all accept.

Prabhupāda: Then that will be very nice. I want to have a small Vaiṣṇava state-varṇāśrama ideal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is possible in Manipur.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I thought it. Ideal Vaiṣṇava state. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they are doing very nicely, and people will be surprised, "Oh." There is no question of hatred. It is division for proper discharge of duty.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Pañcadraviḍa: This standing orders to individuals, is that something like life membership program?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many educated, enlightened men. They will take.

Tripurāri: So we should pick out certain individuals, then, to approach, not just go door to door.

Prabhupāda: This is Melbourne.

Bali-mardana: Melbourne temple.

Prabhupāda: Gaura-Nitāi is wonderful, Melbourne. Eh?

Bali-mardana: Here is another picture, just of Gaura-Nitāi.

Prabhupāda: This Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, we...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You brought from India.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: At least, educated Indians can be approached.

Ghanaśyāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda, since the life member program is going on here and England and places like that, maybe it's better to start this individualized standing order program in places where there is not so much of a life member program, as we'll be in some cases asking the same people.

Prabhupāda: Do it conscientiously, as it is suitable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can discuss this at our GBC meeting.

Prabhupāda: So, it is time now?

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So this dehātma-buddhi, "I am this body," is very strong at the present. They think dehātma-buddhi, extended, is very good. And that I was speaking, that a person is taking care of his own body or own dress, but they say, "We shall not take care of my body but for others body also, my son's body, my grandson's body, my relative's body." So that means extending the activities of taking care of the dress. So that I said, that a washerman is taking care of many people's dress, but that does not mean that he is very elevated man. He is nothing but a washerman. But people are interested to take care of the dress. This body is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). We are changing the dress. And so long we are interested with dress of the body, not of the body, so the person who has got this body will remain animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So people are not prepared even to hear about this distinction, that "I am not this body; you are not this body." The modern civilization has trained up, educated people, in such a way that the more you think yourself, "I am this body—'I am American,' 'I am Indian,' 'I am brāhmaṇa,' 'I am this, I am that' "—and you feel and act like that and create trouble like that, then you are called civilized. Is it not?

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not all. (laughter) Not all. The fortunate, those who are so fortunate, they are now opposing me. The Western people, they are now opposing this movement, so they are not fortunate. So everywhere there are fortunate and unfortunate. But mostly in this age they are unfortunate. Either in the Western countries or in this country, they are unfortunate mostly. They cannot understand. In India at least those who are not very educated, mass of people, they believe transmigration of the soul. They very easily believe it because culture is based on that, pūrva-janma paro janma. They believe that "If I act sinfully, then I'll have to suffer next life, and because I did not do properly, therefore I am suffering in this life." Still they believe. But the so-called educated people, they are trying to set aside this. They say, "Superstition." And the leaders say that "India, giving more stress on the soul, not on the body, India's position is so degraded." This is the leaders' opinion. Big, big leaders, they think. Therefore the so-called leaders or learned scholars, they write notes on Bhagavad-gītā, but they never give any idea of spiritual life. They utilize Bhagavad-gītā for material end. This is going on. Just like our big leader, Gandhi. He was supposed to be very strict follower of Bhagavad-gītā, and he has never instructed about spiritual life.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Jagannātha cannot correct. That bad habit he must give up.

Rādhā-vallabha: So we should just leave it exactly.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You should not be more educated.

Rādhā-vallabha: He wasn't changing any of the words. He was just...

Prabhupāda: Nothing of the... This of should be strictly forbidden.

Rādhā-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.

Prabhupāda: They can divide the synonyms. That's all.

Rādhā-vallabha: Synonyms. So even...

Prabhupāda: That is his tendency, to correct. That's very bad. He should not do that.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why India's such big culture should be lost for the matter of these rascal leaders? This should be stopped. As Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma (BG 4.13). There must be ideal brāhmaṇa, ideal kṣatriya, ideal vaiśya, as Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is all-inclusive. Economic question? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Grow food. Practical. Just like when I was going to the pandals, millions of clerks were coming—"Education. Educated." And who is growing food? And they have to be provided in these pigeon holes and depend on ration. Is that civilization? And throngs of people are coming, just like machine, ants. Ants are coming. I saw like that. And go to the village side—all vacant land. Nobody's interested to produce food. Everyone is interested to live within the city, in these pigeonholes, and go to the cinema and go to the brothel, go to the club and learn how to drink, how to become gentleman. Is that civilization? Human life's aim is lost. You do not know why you are going to the office, why you are eating, why you are... Keeping them all pet animal's mentality, doggish mentality. We have explained. University education means doggish mentality. Unless he becomes a dog, there is no food. No, the dog goes...

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Coming in Churchgate.

Prabhupāda: No, there was a newspaper publication. For some post there is five hundred posts vacant.

Guest (1): Oh, yes. For application for a job, five jobs and five thousand people applied.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand. Is that education? Better not to be educated. Those who are not educated, they purchase ten rupees' worth of potato and sit down anywhere and half... (laughter) Five rupees. Yes.

Guest (1): All vegetable are...

Prabhupāda: You take some dāl. Go to house to house, dāl. They have no scarcity. And after spending so much money, living at the cost of fathers, mothers—unemployed. No job. No food. Then plan something, Naxalite, this party, that party. Join some political movement and help Indira Gandhi. They are paid to make propaganda. They are paid. And they earn money by smuggling.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Recruit them. And speak in such societies. We have now our prestige and preaching. It will be very nice honor everywhere. So Kṛṣṇa has given you some talent. Utilize it. These rascals are misleading. Although the instruction is there, they are misinterpreting in their own way, misleading themselves and misleading others. They say the name of God. They do not know what is God, although God is explaining Himself. Such a rascal. God is explaining, "Here, I'm God." He is accepted, and they do not... When you ask them what is God: "That we do not know. Our God is (indistinct)." Such things are there. So they have to be convinced that these half-educated leaders cannot make you happy. It is not possible. They do not know the basic principle of life. Take guidance from Kṛṣṇa. That is our movement. You'll be happy. And don't be carried away by the whims. This is an important chance, human life. These motorcars are running, they are running just like the flies come, phut phut phut phut. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Eleventh Chapter. Blind. Expedite death, that's all. There is no solution. The solution is here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So recruit first of all. Just like these doctor friends. First of all get some friends.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then there should not be any scarcity for their comfort. People are trained up to the modern comforts. Therefore I am building so big, big institution. Otherwise, I... That's a fact. Rādhā-Dāmodara temple is sufficient for me. It is not for me I want these big, big buildings. I am accustomed to live anywhere. But those who are educated, scientists, they are accustomed, Europeans, Americans... They must be given proper place. That was my Guru Mahārāja's policy. Not that all of a sudden they should now live on the floor. No, that's not possible. Then they will be disturbed. Give them nice place, give them nice food, nice instruction. You are all intelligent boys. Do it immediately. Another building construct. That colony should be for first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious people, to preach. So Gargamuni, you also help.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is real socialism. God is the supreme father. Everyone has got right to live at the cost of the father's property. But you cannot take more than that. Then you are a thief. Take whatever you... And even by nature you will find. You just immediately throw one bag of rice, so many birds will come. And they will take one or two grain or something... They will go away. And the human being, oh, he will take five shares, he will take ten shares. And within one hour, ten mounds of rice will be finished. The birds and beasts will not do that. Whatever he actually requires, they will take from there. Therefore they are not subjected to the sinful activities. Only human beings are subjected to sinful activities. But he has got developed consciousness and misusing it. There is no sinful activities for animals lower than the human being. There is no sin. Because they are under the laws of nature, the animals. And as soon as one becomes developed conscious human being, if he does not know the śāstra and guided by spiritual master, he will do all nonsense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Vikarma, all sinful activities. Only for sense gratification. Mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. And what is the purpose of doing so many sinful activities? Yad indriya-prītaya, only for sense gratification. There is no other aim. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, don't do this." So who is giving protection to these rascals who are educated to act sinfully? That is in Bhāgavata.

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no doubt. How we can stop educating people about Bhagavad-gītā? It is most heinous mentality, such knowledge should be hidden from the human society. And some rascal will misinterpret.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, your point yesterday was very nice that some things which are difficult, they may need explanations, but when Kṛṣṇa says, "Give it to Me," what is the question of a need of interpretation? That Radhakrishnan, immediately he gives his explanation: "It doesn't mean to Kṛṣṇa the person."

Prabhupāda: Just see. How rascal he is, and he is commenting. No, no, this is the rule, grammatical rule, that when things are clear, there is no interpretation.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Where is the shackle? Age-old shackles. Where is the shackle?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is nothing keeping them down but their own inability.

Prabhupāda: You are keeping yourself in shackle. If you want to be educated, there was... Dr. Ambedekhar, he belonged to the harijana. How he became a law member? Where is the shackle?

Bhakti-caru: Even (indistinct) is there.

Prabhupāda: Where is the shackle?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, how did he become?

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "According to the constitutional directive, harijanas should account for twenty percent of the posts in the government service." But first of all they should be qualified. We can use the example that if your father is a high-court justice, does it make you a high-court justice?

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: She has misused the power, and nobody was to check. It is very dangerous constitution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Educated people lack basic values. The question whether formal education has a corrupting influence on the minds of children, particularly the illiterate tribals and villagers, was raised by Dr. D. Y. Goharkar, vice chancellor of Nagpur University at the three-day conference of the third Vidarbha Teachers Educators' Meet, which concluded here last week in Candrapur. Inaugurating the conference, Dr. Goharkar observed that some of the basic values of life such as honesty and trustworthiness were conspicuously lacking in the so-called educated communities in general. He urged educationists and researchers to look into this question and suggest remedies."

Prabhupāda: That means the rascals, they do not see it, that godlessness, godless education will be like that. The teachers who are suggesting, they are themselves blind, and they are leading. They do not know what is the defect. You can write to them, that "You are leaders, you do not know what is the cause. This is the cause. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Without God consciousness, there cannot be any education. There cannot be any good qualities. You do not know this. Simply you are crying in the wilderness. You yourself do not know. All the education, its propaganda is how to make the world godless, although the most scientific knowledge of God is there in the Bhagavad-gītā." Write him.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Prime Minister is lightie?

Upendra: Yes. He is very educated. He is half. All the ministers are, those natives are light-skinned. They are from a particular island group, mixed. They are very intelligent and polite. The other natives are darker and more extremists. But this extremist agitation is, they say, is instigated by the Europeans, who keep the Indians and natives apart, because the natives have all the land, and this is what the Europeans are interested in. So they instigate it.

Prabhupāda: These rascals, wherever they go, they create trouble.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very good. Poona is not far away.

Girirāja: Oh, no. It's two or three hours.

Prabhupāda: By train. So it is nice place, educated.

Girirāja: One... There's a very big military concentration, so this time we didn't meet any of the military leaders, but I think next time we can arrange a big program there. It's the whole headquarters for, I think, central India or...

Prabhupāda: Which... It is... Very much. One program is clear. I think our this Cross Maidan pandal has given the people study.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The proposal is there. Here it is already done. The same principle, the four things, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). These four principles, what is the difficulty? But if you are determined, "No, we shall not follow," then who can educate you? There is no loss. And if there is some gain, why not take it? We have to educate so many young men. So I think that harijana movement... You can bring that... That one gentleman, Dr. Parmar(?), you know him?

Mr. Rajda: Dr. Faramar?

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Mr. Rajda: Faramar, I have... Yeah.

Prabhupāda: He has regretted that "Government has spent so much money and we have tried, but we could not improve our position."

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So when my body is destroyed, I am going... (break) ...from door to door, selling the books and sending money. We are pushing on our mission in the way. I am not getting any help neither from the government, from the public. And the record is there in the Bank of America, how much foreign exchange I am bringing. Even in this feeble health also, I am working four hours at least, at night. And they are also helping me. So this is our individual attempt. Why not come here? If you are actually very serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you come, cooperate? And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato... (SB 5.18.12). You cannot make public honest simply by legislation. That is not possible. Forget it. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto.... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ... If you, if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all good qualities will be there. And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If he's not a devotee... Now so many things, condemnation, is going on, big, big leaders. Today's paper I have seen. "This man, that man, is rejected even." Why? Harāv abhaktasya kuto. What is the benefit of becoming a big leader if he's not a devotee? (Hindi) You are very intelligent, young, and therefore I am trying to give you some idea, and if you can give some shape to these ideas... It is already there. It is no secret. Simply we must be serious, that this institution must be there for educating the whole human society. Never mind, a very small number. It doesn't matter. But ideal must be there.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They'll be happy. They're suffering. (Hindi) Is that civilization? "You could not supply me petrol. I shot you." What is this? How much animalistic a human being can be. (aside:) Wake up. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣaḥ. The people are being educated to become too much lusty, and as soon as their lust is not fulfilled, they'll be angry. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. And the krodha was, anger was so intense that he killed another person. No consideration that "What he can do? The petrol is finished." He simply says, "Now my stock is finished." So therefore he should be killed?

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It will be a great service if you can educate. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). To keep them as animals is a great sin. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara has got this film?

Yadubara: No.

Prabhupāda: Not yet.

Yadubara: It just came out.

Prabhupāda: Oh. We can produce more detailed film later on.

Yadubara: You asked us to make that one point, that we're not the body.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yadubara: In Māyāpur last year you asked me to make that one point, that we're not the body. So we tried to do that only.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That can be, and this..., done that.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Therefore śruti, which is beyond the sense perception, you have to hear it from authorities. That is knowledge. Who has seen it? These rascals... Who has seen it? So grossly educated they are. "Everything can be seen." Why everything? The same example we give. You have not seen your father. You have to hear, "Here is your father." That's all. That is the proof.

Yadubara: Just like in this last film, we suggested that there is a soul in the hand sequence—when the hands were always changing, and the body grows old. So the idea was that there is something that's not changing there. So in film there are certain techniques we can use to suggest, as Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami said, certain ideas.

Prabhupāda: Idea, that idea is given there. Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. In the air, it is rose flavor, it is passing. You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. You cannot see it, but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Kṛṣṇa. Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Beyond this material things, there is another prakṛti. That is the... That does not die. Na jāyate na mriyate. And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is not to be accepted blindly. (break) So you are in Russia, educated young man. You can do something. Everyone can do something.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

Bhārata-bhūmi, anyone who has taken birth in Bhārata-bhūmi, especially in high family, it is the duty of every Indian to understand this sublime knowledge and distribute it to the world. Para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Because we have got this knowledge, everything. This knowledge you cannot have anywhere. Therefore scholarly people, man or elderly persons, many, they are accepting our books very nicely. In foreign countries... And Bhāgavata, it is not their religious book. We are selling... In Russia also we have got copies. What is that institution, they have ordered?

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): No, my point is everyone has some special strategy if we don't want the total population the world is Communist. Should not there be a special strategy to enter in their own hearts?

Prabhupāda: This is special strategy, that as far as possible, give them those who are educated, read then, give them chance to read. And those who are not, let them come, and music and dance. Everyone likes to do this. And take prasādam, feast, lecture. Common sense.

Guest (2): Politic of other.

Prabhupāda: Apart from, we are not concerned with politics. We are concerned with the madman. So what is this nonsense politics conducted by some big...? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What is this politics, the democracy? Some animals voting another big animal, that's all. The leader is an animal, and the voters, they are animals. So what is the use of such politics? They remain animals. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That is going on. You have got it?

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: But I do not want to bring in Raj Kapoor and Lata Mangeskar seriously acting in regard to Lord Kṛṣṇa. I think these people with the God's face, they could themselves very efficiently do these things, without the interference of these people. I think we have (indistinct) a drama, and educated the common man to understand that God, and at the same time depicting the life history of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-līlā can be played very nicely.

Guest (1): And it is maintained at a very remarkable level standard. Performance is very good. This could definitely go in as an Indo-Soviet cultural group, and it would be really educating the masses in no time. It is almost as good as showing them a film show or a cinema.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is the government has got the cultural department. So they will patronize Lata Mangeskar, but they will not give us money to go there.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: No, that's a different. Because Harrison is more popular in Europe and West than Lata Mangeskar. Raj Kapoor they know. They know, I think more than George Harrison(?), Raj Kapoor is a most popular man in Soviet Union because of his films. And second is Jawaharlal Nehru. So they can make anybody popular or unpopular. Because there is only one paper. They write whatever they want. Unfortunately, the whole thing is in the hands of those (indistinct). They publish whatever they want. So this type of popularity is not real popularity. You cannot take the face value popularity. So I think this type of creating a drama or taking a film for educating about God, and then there will be some sort of a scientific discourse as if intellectual level that...

Prabhupāda: Scientific research...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How about that new film that Yadubara has just made? That's presenting everything as seemingly unreligious way. What is it called? "A Spark of Life" it's called. A new film. Are you going to be showing it here tonight, Yadubara?

Yadubara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe we could see it. That would be nice.

Dr. Sharma: I would like to know some such film they would popularize these things.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you show some film? Is it possible now?

Yadubara: To show it now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have not been educated. Therefore, actually speaking, there is no real knowledge outside India. Mūḍha.

Dr. Sharma: Even the smallpox vaccination that was discovered by Edgar Jenner in 1796, it was really from the cow pox serum they discovered. The first vaccination he used on his own son. (indistinct) People who were living with the cows, they were not affected by smallpox, though the people did not have a cow in the house, they were affected the most. So it protects from cow pox, small pox.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Cow protection protects us from so many infectious disease.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. Therefore it is our duty to educate them, out of sympathy. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Paścimera loka saba mūḍha anācāra: "The Western peoples, they are mūḍhas and anācāras." So this mission is paropakāra, to give them knowledge and how to become civilized. This is the mission.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And men like Dr. Sharma can help us a lot.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is medical doctor, medical field. He can write some articles on especially these problems in biochemistry and the medicinal aspects. One can do a lot.

Prabhupāda: You have seen his small booklet?

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Actually they're animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these animals, they are passing on as big scientists, philosophers, theologician, and so on, so on. We have to stop them. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the qualification of a person who does not accept God: duṣkṛtina, narādhama, mūḍha, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna-although highly educated, no knowledge-āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, simply atheist. So as Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders, we have to punish them, chastise these rascals. They are demons.

Girirāja: Actually, it's... It's actually relishable to chastise them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) It is a pleasure sport. So you come here. What is the news? What the, all these rascals saying? Newspaper means all the statement of rascals.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: University students?

Prabhupāda: They are... University students, they may be educated. They'll also make a... Don't make it a laughing stock.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, very little is there. Just started, then finished. So I said, "If it can be done, it can be a little elaborated. Give some more authentic examples, a little more discussion and some philosophy...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He has got attachment for Kṛṣṇa.

Girirāja: He has attachment. And he realizes that if he develops his attachment for Kṛṣṇa, that will solve all of his problems.

Prabhupāda: If you simply follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, the whole world will be perfect. That's all. But these rascals, they take Kṛṣṇa as fictitious. Such a rascal, educated man, that for "fictitious Kṛṣṇa," Vyāsadeva has taken so much trouble. Such a great writer and Vedavyāsa, and later on, all the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, they have wasted time for something fictitious. Such a rascal. I say, "rascal..." (end)

Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now people are taking our philosophy. So your mission also, preach in the same way. People will be benefited. The whole world is taking Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti... (BG 7.7). Preach this. People will take it. This knowledge is there in India, and they require to be educated with this knowledge, and we have tried little bit, and they are accepting. Why don't you do that? They have taken. I said, "Here is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. You worship Him." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. Why don't you teach this? Hm? You are not teaching this, that "Accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Always think of Him. Man-manāḥ. Become a devotee. Offer Him obeisances." Why don't you teach this? Hm? What is the difficulty?

Indian man (2): Excuse me. I could not follow.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you teach as Kṛṣṇa wants? It is a plain word. Why you are teaching something else?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, Bengalis, they're more intelligent.

Prabhupāda: They are educated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not smārta, not like that.

Prabhupāda: And these other countries, they are smārta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: South, South Indian...

Prabhupāda: Yes, South...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Bengalis, they really appreciate the devotion. They see how nice and they come. Never mind who is doing it.

Prabhupāda: No, in Vṛndāvana also.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our Gandhi's program failed because he could not attract the villagers to these activities. Everyone wants some attraction. That we were discussing, rasa, catur-vidhā-rasa, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So we have to educate them to be attracted by the mokṣa-rasa. Then they'll stay. Unless there is rasa... Just like if you put a little sugar, small black ants will come immediately. The rasa is there. Raso vai saḥ. If... If you cannot attract people to some rasa, they'll not stay. Just like these Americans, foreigners, they have tasted little rasa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are sticking. That we have to create. That is bhakti-rasa. So our first beginning is that the villagers may come, we have our temple, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and give them nice prasādam. And then, gradually, they will be attracted to this rasa. So that we want. So if we people cooperate... We have got our program already. The present problem is that they are being attracted with this artha-rasa.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: Just smattering of it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Suppose you are living in that village. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "You become a guru here." Here. You haven't got to go out. Ei deśa, "where you are living." Just see how nice it is. Āmāra ājñāya: "By My order, you become a guru and deliver the people of this place." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... So "I am not educated, I do not know. How I shall become?" No, you haven't got to bother. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. You become guru." That's all. Everyone can do that. Gītā is there. You sit down in your place and preach Bhagavad-gītā and try to induce them to take it. You become guru. But these rascals, they are becoming guru and showing magic and so many jugglery, not Gītā (Hindi), and spoil the whole country. Anyway, whatever is done is done. Now Kṛṣṇa has sent you. You have got all arrangement. I am prepared. I am asking my secretary to make arrangement. Let us cooperate. It will be very nice. Mr. Dwivedi is very nice man.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a picture in the newspaper showing the students going to school, and each one of them was shown as a dog with a hat, graduation hat on, comparing the students to dogs. There was a cartoon, very apt.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are creating so many dogs. "Can you give me any service?" "No vacancy! Get out!" And somebody becomes a... "All right, a bit of bread..." And: "Oh, oh, you are so kind." These śūdras... The number of śūdras have created this world situation so bad. (break) In your country also the farmers wants to go to the city to become educated and never comes back again. They are no more interested.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has a statue?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... He has done. Like this Nanda has done this. And he's sticking to his whimsical policy. I wanted to mix with him, and I thought that he'll be useful. Useless. Mānava-dharma "man's religion" I asked him several times that "Is there any dog's religion? You have manufactured that." Religion means man's religion. That much he can do. Mānava-dharma. He is educated, intelligent, buddhi—with no brain. I have studied. And he's a good man also, but no intelligence. I have studied all these rascals. So long they are in office, by the power of office they are useful. Otherwise they are useless. Just like my books they are appreciating. They have never seen me. Not that because I am guru of some temple... They appreciate my work. That is real appreciation. "What you have done? What remains behind? All for the...(?)" Anyway, do something. Do. People are... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Blowing?

Prabhupāda: Yes, blowing with mouth.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is luxurious. (break) ...the āṭā dough. So after it is cooked... They have got ghee. That ball soaked in ghee and the ḍāl, it is so nice when taken. That is called baṭī. Very quickly made. And after eating, with that ash the two or three utensils, mean the loṭā and the plate, they'll cleanse it very nice and walk away. And that food is sufficient for twenty-four hours. Within twenty-four hours he will not be hungry and feel very strong. The two things. And you can cook anywhere without any difficulty. In India, especially in village, you can get so many dried cow dung. So fuel is ready. The āṭā is packed up. And ghee in a pot. That's all. How simple life. Simply they'll sit down where there is water, and they'll take water. Then everything is arranged. No hotel. Or even there is no āṭā, they keep their own ghee, homemade, pure. Āṭā can be purchased anywhere in the village. There is no need of carrying āṭā. So this preparation for tourists... Tourists, Indian tourists, means going to some holy place. They have no other sightseeing, no program. All villagers, they are still... The pilgrimage in holy places, now no educated man goes.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They should be stopped, this practice of prostitution. This is a very bad system in Europe and America. The boys and girls, they are educated-coeducation. From the very beginning of their life they become prostitutes. And they encourage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: They distribute pills. I have seen the boys and girls dancing together, embracing, in the school film. That ruins the career. Both of them are ruined. That is very regrettable. Then you shall require this sterilization, pills, another big program. They are creating animal civilization, and when the animals are disturbing, they are trying to find out some other means. This is their program. First of all create animals. Then, when the animals behave like animals, then another program. Why do you create animal? Woman brahmacāriṇī, this is artificial.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: If you practice muṣṭika, naturally you become very stout and strong. There are many wrestlers. They have got very strong body. But yoga does not mean that. Yoga means to find out the antaryāmī, Paramātmā, within the core of the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). This information we get from the śāstra, that God is also situated within the core of the heart of every living... Sarva-bhūtānām. It is not that God is sitting in the core of the heart of the human being and not in the core of the heart of the dogs. He is there also. But the difference is that the dog cannot find out; man can find out. Therefore he is educated, taught about the yoga system so that constantly he can meditate upon antaryāmī, viṣṇu-mūrti. Perhaps you have seen the picture. We have got that picture. But that is the purpose of yoga, not to make the body strong or the mind very powerful. That is automatically done. Aiye. It does not require separate attempt.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is our thesis.

Jayapatākā: And educated young people, they're very... They're very susceptible to being devotees. When we traveled in one city, two people joined with us and traveled with us and said they'll be shaved and everything. Very easily they give up. Even when I returned in Māyāpur about five or six new young men had joined. In the twenty days I was gone Bhavānanda Mahārāja had enlisted about five or six men and about fifteen gurukula students and two families. And they were all very enthusiastic. They want to go and preach also. Things are improving.

Prabhupāda: So building work is finished?

Jayapatākā: They're just finishing the top waterproofing, jalja(?). They're building that now. That'll be finished in fifteen days.

Prabhupāda: Others things are going on.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You haven't got to think over, "What shall I do now?" Never forget. So our first business is preaching. You should always remember. This is the education. These rascals, they have no father-mother-orphans. They may think as well-educated how to earn money. We have no... We are rich man's son. Economic problem is already solved. That is already taken. Tal labhyate yad anyataḥ sukham. We don't care for all this so-called improvement. That is already settled up. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Just see how to become a man of character like Nārada, Vyāsa. That is our goal. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Not for any other. "And what about your material problems?" That is already taken. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. This is kṛṣṇa-bhakta. Don't care for maintaining body. "What Kṛṣṇa will give, I take. If He does not give, don't mind."

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is starting. What can I do? These cannot... These rascals cannot be educated. Dangerous. Little learning, dangerous. So how to correct? The leader of these dangerous-Rādhā-vallabha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rādhā-vallabha?

Prabhupāda: Hm. He's a dangerous, who maintains these rascal with this work. He'll always have questions and alteration. That is his business. That is American business. They take that always. What can I do? Ultimate, it goes for editorial. They make changes, such changes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your original work that you're doing now, that is edited by Jayādvaita. That's the first editing.

Prabhupāda: He is good.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they did what the Curzons suggested.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they know. And besides that, they did not exploit. Whatever enjoyment they did—within India, not that taking away the money outside India. Therefore it was very good relationship. And Indian people, they do not mind who is king. "We pay our tax. That's all." That is the attitude from the very beginning. The general people, they did not mind whether Kurus or war(?) will reign over or the Pāṇḍavas. "We don't mind. You become fight. You become king. We give our tax. That's all." So there was no fight with the subject between king and citizens. This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy. I do not know who introduced this. In India still there is no demon-crazy. Indian king always. Everyone is taking part in politics. What is this nonsense? It is meant for the kṣatriyas. They can fight and defend. The rascals, bhangis, chamars, and they are also in politics. Harijanas... Every one of them vote, and everyone has got the right to become king, minister. Not this. The real thing they are missing, the mode of life, the aim of life. (break)...care. Everyone is theorizing, everyone is educated, and everyone is, they're hippie. That's all.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not after the loafer class.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not loafer. They are also useful. But they are... Bringing them to the education, university, they are becoming loafer, ironclad. As soon as the low-class men are given education, he thinks, "Now I have become educated, baḍa bāpu. Why shall I work as a carpenter? I must have credits here." And they're bribing in government office, and sixty percent of the clerks-useless. They do not know how to make file, cumberous. Because everyone is going in New Delhi. And all fourth-class men are admitted. I have seen. If you have to find out an old file, you have to wait six months. Because these people are neither for this purpose nor that purpose.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct-bad tape) (break) So now our next business is to bring students, brahmacārī. So easy process is to approach wealthy(?) gentleman. In their family there are many children, one, two, three, like that. So approach them and plead them that "Children from your family are expected to be very respectable boys, character and devotee, educated. From your family, people expect like that. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction, he says, ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. 'What is the use of begetting children like cats and dogs?' The children must be vidvān, that is, learned, and bhaktimān, devotee. This is the ideal. And what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? Ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. Either he should be bhaktimān or vidvān. This vidvān and bhaktimān, that is ideal. So we are going to teach your son to become vidvān and bhaktimān. So don't you like to bring your son?" You have to tell them like that. And present it rightly. The Prime Minister and her son or his son, he is debauch number one. Do you think the society can be happy? The father and mother is Prime Minister, and the son is a debauch number one. What is this? That is going on. So we are... "For the good of the society you can send your son to become vidvān, bhaktimān. Then, after some time, you can engage your son in any way. That is the... If they are found it, vidvān and bhaktimān, then everything will be all right. And if gone rascals, then what good for the society? Just think. Am I right or wrong?" You have to convince like that. What do you think about this?

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. There are lots and hundreds and thousands, but you have to collect them and give them proper education, vidvān, bhaktimān. Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁvā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. So if you don't educate them as vidvān and bhaktimān, it is just like blind eye, kāṇa, with some disease, simply giving trouble. That's all. Pluck it out. The medical treatment is pluck it out. So what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? According to our Bhāgavata philosophy, if one is not able to beget nice children, then he should not become father-mother. That is real contraceptive. Gurur na sa syāt jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The father-mother's duty is to stop repetition of birth and death. That is real father-mother. Otherwise dog is also doing that. Dog is also begetting children. Man is also begetting. What is the difference? The difference is man should be responsible that "This child who has come to me, this is his last birth. No more birth again." Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "I shall train him in such a way..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is ideal. The means is already there. And Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You can stop your birth and death, your son's birth and death. How? One who knows Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. It is open to everyone.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Knowingly they are drinking poison, and we are trying to save them. Very difficult task. Jāniyā śuni... This Narottama dāsa's song, a very practical and very easily applica... Jāniyā śuniyā... Nobody drinks poison knowingly, but these people, we are all drinking poison knowingly. They're refusing to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So little difficult but very responsible task. So at least bring five hundred students. Then it will be very nice, gradually. Respectable gentleman, big, big man, at least these big, big merchants, their student doesn't... Just like Birla family, other big, big... If they require some technologists, they can hire. There are so many tech... Technologist means śūdra. And actually they are doing that. They do not train their own sons to become technologist. They pay for that, the śūdras, as servants are... The Englishmen used to say these men, craft and technolo..., "educated laborer." They are laborer and little educated. There are uneducated laborer, just like carpenter. He doesn't require any education. If he knows how to rub on... What is called, that? That instrument? He doesn't require to become M.A., Ph.D. All these laborers are working so nicely. So why they should spend, waste their time in going to school and college? From the very be... As soon as he's ten years old only, let him learn practically how to weave cloth, how to become carpenter, how become other craftsman. And in due course of time he can earn his... How to cultivate land... Why so many big, big universities for inviting everyone? There is no need. Educated means brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So he gets engagement. Then, by seeing, seeing, he becomes little important. And the proprietor gives him some hand expense. And then, one day, he becomes very expert. He starts his own business. That was the system. Why he should go and waste time for education? A boy is given to a carpenter. He learns very easily. A weaver, he learns very easily. A shopkeeper, grocer, he learns very easily. That is education. Why he should waste time for academic education and create unemployment? So long he's not educated, he has got enough employment. Still they take in the morning, say, half a mound of ḍāl and goes home to home: (Hindi) So by saying, after mound of ḍāl, he makes up these two, three rupees' profit. That's all. Where is unemployment?

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they are hearing the philosophy also. In the evening class they come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes. Bhavānanda always has young people coming to Māyāpur. Intelligent, well-educated, wealthy people's children come. He yells at them like anything. He tells them that "Why are you imitating the West when you have the greatest culture?" Bhavānanda Mahārāja yells at them, chastises them. They like it. Naturally they like it because he's praising their culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is a fact. And the books are selling very nice, hm, Bengali?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. Now there's about seven or eight parties traveling around India, simply doing book distribution.

Prabhupāda: That is our aim.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they are...

Mr. Myer: Local people, we have to have local people with more language and...

Prabhupāda: The local people... Some educated people come, they... Then it can be done.

Mr. Myer: 'Cause why...

Prabhupāda: But whatever they're doing, simply by training, that there may be some...

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the disaster came, Indira.

Mr. Myer: Actually it is a big danger. All the people were educated. Here Hanumān Akuso(?). They have made family plan. But all the...

Prabhupāda: So why family planning? Because they are rascal. Because in this lower species of life they have no planning. You'll find in the dogs, dozens of dogs, dozens of children. And... So there is no family planning. So how they are being raised? There are many animals. So family planning is different thing, but one thing is that these rascals are misguided. They do not know how to give them... In Bengal there is called śiva gotri bango(?). He was ordered to make a doll of Lord Śiva, and he made a monkey. You see? They are doing like that. They were to make Lord Śiva's doll, but they have a monkey because he does not know. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvān cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ. The rascals do not know how to make things right. Therefore Vyāsadeva has written so nice literature. But they'll not consult. They'll not take Kṛṣṇa's advice, Vyāsadeva's advice, or our advice.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: High class.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Higher class. Very intelligent, educated...

Prabhupāda: The low class, they purchase that big ruṭi. (laughs) That's all.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Big cāpāṭi.

Prabhupāda: They cannot come to the restaurant.

Parivrājakācārya: No.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Some people even come, higher class people, and work. They give their service in the restaurant. They wash dishes. They serve tables. We engage them in bhakti-yoga.

Brahmānanda: What's the name of the restaurant?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Govinda.

Prabhupāda: So you make good profit.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

amāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda Mahārāja was saying how last night you were saying that there's nothing nicer and more fortunate than to be the pūjārī of a Deity. (break) We'll just get the sum and substance. He's offering his obeisances to Bhavānanda Mahārāja and the other devotees he met here. He says he's very anxious about your health and progress. He requested me to give him a report. He says as regards to starting of the dispensary and also organizing a health teaching center for educating the boys by the latest audio-visual methods, he said that you seemed to be very earnest about it. In fact, he says that you told him to start as soon as possible. But he wishes to explain some of his difficulties. So Sharma and Jagadīśa, the director of education, and... They they've promised to go through the idea. But he didn't find that Dr. Sharma showed much inclination for this idea. The actual thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that we want him to have a dispensary. We're not so much eager for his educational training. Naturally Dr. Sharma was not so enthusiastic.

Prabhupāda: No. Ours is spiritual education, no medical education.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Many handloomers. So we have designs to expand that into a very large area, and most of it will be exported to our temples and devotees all around the world. And all of the handloom workers, they're devotees so they don't take any salary. None of us take any salary. And they get nice rooming and full prasādam and their children are educated. All medicine, everything is supplied to them.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: You could also, perhaps, introduce this new spinning wheel for the yarn. At present you must be purchasing yarn from the mills.

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: But have you seen this small nice carakā, spinning wheel?

Bhavānanda: Well, we do our own spinning.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Spinning also?

Bhavānanda: Oh, yes. We're training up those who have children... They're trained in the varṇāśrama system. Some of the children in the school have a scholastic bent of mind, so they're educated in Sanskrit and higher studies. Some of them have a vaiśya bent of mind, and they work in the gośāla helping to develop..., milk the cows. Some are... Their parents are working in the handloom. They also have that desire, so they're trained to be handloomers. In this way we will be able to develop a city of fifty thousand devotees.

Śrī Bajaj: Let us not overstrain him and whatever if... He'll feel tired.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Trivikrama: What about the language? Is there problem with language?

Girirāja: No. The educated people speak English. In all the schools they teach English, so all the youngsters speak English in Kathmandu. And then most people in Kathmandu, even if they don't speak English, they speak Hindi. And there are just a few who only speak Nepali. But Prabhaviṣṇu has arranged for The Perfection of Yoga to be translated into Nepali.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He sounds like he's doing very good, Prabhaviṣṇu.

Girirāja: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good man.

Girirāja: He's very good. So he's eager to get that in print. Then they'll be able to distribute literature to everyone without exception.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Do you remember when Prabhaviṣṇu was here you told him to go with "the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother"? He remembers those words.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother."

Prabhupāda: This is the word of a great poet.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He is also educated?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't really know, Śrīla Prabhupāda, how far he's educated.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Seems too young also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Young and... We're pretty lucky, as far as I can see, with that Damodar Prasad Shastri. He seems to be in his own category from all the kavirājas I've ever seen. He really seems different than that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's also Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He really is a little Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That... The kavirāja that we brought from Calcutta.

Page Title:Educated (Conv. 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Mayapur
Created:26 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=293, Let=0
No. of Quotes:293