Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas should keep up a school like that. Students were all almost they were also of the same age. Some of them were fifteen years old, sixteen years old. So students came and saw Lord Caitanya was chanting "Gopī gopī," so they objected. They said, "Oh, why You are chanting 'gopī gopī'? Why should You not chant 'Kṛṣṇa'? 'Hare Kṛṣṇa'?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in His ecstasy because He was... In the beginning, His appearance is in the form of gopī, to love Kṛṣṇa. So He became very much angry, and because they were students, He wanted to chastise them. He took a stick. "You nonsense! What you are speaking? Go away!" So they fled away, but after that they organized. "Oh, how is that? Caitanya, He is... How He has become so big that He wants to beat us?" In this way they practically they were talking ill of Him. So He decided that "If I remain a householder, these people will not honor Me."
Ecstasy (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Like that. Teacher. Then His renunciation of householder. He became sannyāsa. Now when He was, after taking sannyāsa, when He was going towards Vṛndāvana, He became always almost mad. So Nityānanda, He was with Him. When He saw that Lord Caitanya is in ecstasy, He misled Him just to... His plan was that "I shall take Lord Caitanya to the house of Advaita, and then I shall call His mother to see Him for the last time. If Caitanya goes away from this very point His mother will not be able to see Him." So out of sympathy He said, "Well, Śrīpāda Caitanya, this is not, this side is not Vṛndāvana. You go..." He just misdirected Him. So... And He sent one man to Advaita to receive Him that "He has taken sannyāsī, just try to make arrangement to receive Him. Then we shall meet."
Prabhupāda: And in the Jagannātha temple was very crowded temple because it is always at least 500, 1,000 devotees are always seeing. It is significance of Jagannātha temple. So He entered and as soon as He saw Jagannātha He became overwhelmed with ecstasy and fell down unconscious. So all the people gathered, "He's a young sannyāsī. He has fallen down." So there was Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, the learned scholar of Purī. He saw, "Oh, this young sannyāsī, He's not ordinary." So he asked his men to carry Him to his place and that will be the scene. Then after His departure His followers will come, and they will search in the temple that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not there. Then one Gopīnātha Ācārya, I think the character is there? Gopīnātha Ācārya?
Prabhupāda: So just note down. First of all, Caitanya Mahāprabhu enters the temple. As soon as He sees Jagannātha He becomes fainted and fell down unconscious. So all the visitors, they became astonished that here is a young sannyāsī and how is that He has fallen down? But Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya noted that He is a high-grade sannyāsī. So he asked his men that "You carry this body, unconscious body to my place." So his men took away Caitanya Mahāprabhu's body unconscious, and Sārvabhauma also and exit. Then after their departure His party entered the temple. Nityānanda, Gadādhara, and Murāri, all these men entered. So Gopīnātha Ācārya was present there. He was known to Gadādhara and Gadādhara inquired that is there any sannyāsī who came here? Then Gopīnātha Ācārya said, "Yes, we have seen one sannyāsī. He fell down in ecstasy and Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya has taken Him to his home." So he invited, "All right, you come with me. I am taking you there." So all the parties were taken to Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's place.
Prabhupāda: In that house, Caitanya, Lord Caitanya was lying unconscious in ecstasy, the same unconsciousness which He got from the temple. So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was trying to treat Him with some water so that He may come to consciousness. Now when His other friends, Nityānanda, Gadādhara and others arrived there, they told, "Oh, Lord Caitanya, He becomes unconscious while chanting. So He cannot be revived to His consciousness by any other means. We have to chant." So in the Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's house that chanting and dancing began with all the members, and gradually Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to consciousness. Then there was introduction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu through Gopīnātha Ācārya and Gadādhara. And Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya told that "You become my guest, you, all of you." And he gave them places. Then... Caitanya Mahāprabhu was only twenty-four years old, and Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, he was old man, about sixty years old. So by acquaintance it was disclosed that Sārvabhauma's father and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grandfather were class friends.
Prabhupāda: Don't hesitate." He stated that either one may be a sannyāsī or he may be householder or one may be a brāhmaṇa or śūdra, it doesn't matter. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can take the place of teacher. So that was His, I mean to say, gift. Because in Indian society it is simply taken that the brāhmaṇas and the sannyāsī can be spiritual master. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Anyone can become spiritual master provided he's conversant with the science." And the summary of the discussion was how to elevate oneself in the highest perfection of love of Godhead. And that love of Godhead was described, existed, I mean to say, superexcellently in Rādhārāṇī. So in the bhāva, in the feature of Rādhārāṇī. And Rāmānanda Rāya, in the feature of Rādhārāṇī's associates Lalitā-sakhī, both of them embraced and began to dance in ecstasy. That will be the end of the scene.
Prabhupāda: So that was His, I mean to say, gift. Because in Indian society it is simply taken that the brāhmaṇas and the sannyāsī can be spiritual master. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Anyone can become spiritual master provided he's conversant with the science." And the summary of the discussion was how to elevate oneself in the highest perfection of love of Godhead. And that love of Godhead was described, existed, I mean to say, superexcellently in Rādhārāṇī. So in the bhāva, in the feature of Rādhārāṇī. And Rāmānanda Rāya, in the feature of Rādhārāṇī's associates Lalitā-sakhī, both of them embraced and began to dance in ecstasy. That will be the end of the scene. Both of them began to dance in ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: Second scene, fourth act, Caitanya Mahāprabhu after finishing His South Indian tour, He came back to Jagannātha Purī, His headquarter, and after some days He started for Vṛndāvana. While He was in Vṛndāvana He was embracing the tree as old friend, and the birds were sitting on His hand, as if receiving an old friend. Because He was Kṛṣṇa. So after many years they have seen. And that scene, if you can describe how He's traveling in the Vṛndāvana forest. Then He took bath in the several vānas and ghāṭas. Ghāṭas means bathing place of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. And everywhere He felt the ecstasy of Rādhārāṇī, separation. In this way He returned from Vṛndāvana, and when He came down to Prayag, modern Allahabad, at that time He met Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the, in the fifth act, ecstasy. At night Caitanya Mahāprabhu would become mad in separation of Kṛṣṇa. He would dash His head on the floor. Sometimes He would write with His nails and sometimes He would go away. Although the house was locked, He would go away, and sometimes He would be found amongst the cowshed of Jagannātha Purī. Sometimes He would be seen in the seashore. One day it was so found that He fell in the ocean and some fisherman caught Him in the net. And as soon as He was in the net and the fisherman touched Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he also began to dance, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. And his brothers, his fellow men thought, "Oh, he's caught ghost, haunted." So in the meantime, His secretary, Damodara Svarupa came to the seashore and he saw that the fisherman was dancing. Then he could understand that he must have some connection with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, (laughs) otherwise why this fisherman is dancing and Hare Kṛṣṇa? Then asked him, "What has happened to you?" He said, "Sir, I do not know. I am a fish-catcher. Now this morning I caught one big fish, and as soon as I caught I am haunted. So I am dancing." So Swarup Damodar, "Where is that fish, big fish? Let me see." So he saw in the net Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He saw Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then he told him, "Yes. I'll chant some mantra so the ghost will go away."
Prabhupāda: So I am dancing." So Swarup Damodar, "Where is that fish, big fish? Let me see." So he saw in the net Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He saw Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then he told him, "Yes. I'll chant some mantra so the ghost will go away." So he made him some show. "All right. Now your ghost is over." So he took away Caitanya Mahāprabhu and when Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw, He told Swarup Damodar, "Why you have brought Me in the seaside? Oh, I was seeing rāsa dance of Kṛṣṇa. I was enjoying." In this way He was always in ecstasy. And in the last stage, the same ecstasy, He entered Jagannātha temple and He never came back. That is the end of (voice trails off) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... So you have to arrange scenes and sounds. That's all.
Hayagrīva: Uh, now... In ecstasy here on the seashore, I don't understand. He met this fisherman.
Prabhupāda: No! He, at night out of His own accord, He came to the seashore and fell on the sea.
Hayagrīva: Oh, He threw Himself in the ocean.
Prabhupāda: In the ocean. Bay of Bengal. And the fishermen they came to catch fish. So instead of fish, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's body was in the net.
Hayagrīva: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: He already dropped Himself on the sea.
Hayagrīva: He was unconscious.
Prabhupāda: Unconscious. He was rolling in the sea.
Prabhupāda: This is the second scene I have described. First scene and second scene.
Hayagrīva: The first scene also.
Prabhupāda: They are all. First, second scene, they are all ecstasies. Yes. And the third scene similarly...
Hayagrīva: Wait. He must be in His forties now. This is in His forties.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These ecstasies were going on daily from His age 30th to 48th year.
Hayagrīva: 38 to 48, every day.
Prabhupāda: Not 38. 30th.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Because we are attached to all these things, attached to this body, attached to this society, attached to the country, so many things in relationship with the body. Now, after negativating my identity with this false identification, when I come to the right point, then I understand that I am Kṛṣṇa's. I am Kṛṣṇa's. Then your attachment for Kṛṣṇa increases because you transfer the attachment. Just like a child. A child is attached to play. But when he grows up, his attachment is transferred to study. That does not mean he gives up the attachment for playing, that attachment is lost. No. Attachment must be there, but that is transferred or purified. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means purified consciousness, real consciousness. And the next stage, after being freed from misgivings—attachment for the real identity, ruci. Then āsakti, greater attachment. Then an ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: You know. The boys, they complain each other and again make friends. So Yaśodā was..., "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, I gave You sweetmeats. You are eating earth?" "No, mother. I have not eaten. They are telling false." And they were still, "Yes. We have seen, mother, He has eaten." Then mother asked Him, "Oh, show Your face. Open Your mouth. I want to see." So He opened His mouth, and she saw all the universe within His mouth, not only earth, the whole planets, sun and moon, and everything, within His mouth. Then she thought, "Oh, what I have seen? All right. Don't do it." That's all. (laughter) She is not at all surprised. She thought that "I saw something. Maybe I wrong or right. All right. Don't do it." That's all. So they were so much affectionate to Kṛṣṇa that Kṛṣṇa's this jugglery could not enchant them. (chuckles) You see? Therefore Kṛṣṇa said to the gopīs that "Your love is so pure that it is not possible for Me to repay." Kṛṣṇa is declaring insolvent to pay their debt. "You be satisfied with your love only. I cannot repay." That is the position of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa and the residents of Vṛndāvana so affectionately connected, that there is no such conception that "Kṛṣṇa is God, Kṛṣṇa can play wonderful things." They simply love Kṛṣṇa. And out of love they forget everything. "All right. That's all right. That's all right." So that ecstasy of love is only possible in Vṛndāvana.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, in his previous life, he elevated himself to the loving stage of Kṛṣṇa. Not exactly, just previous, bhāva. It is called bhāva, ecstasy. But some way or other, he could not finish, so according to the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, he was given birth to a nice brāhmaṇa family. (aside:) You can call that Bengali lady. She can hear. So very rich. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41), in that way. Rich family, at the same time, brāhmaṇa family. But richness, generally, sometimes glide down to wine, women, and intoxication. So by bad company he became woman-hunter, prostitute-hunter. So he was too much addicted to one woman, Cintāmaṇi. So his father died, and he was... He did not marry. In your country it is called girlfriend, and in our country it is called prostitute. So he was that about that prostitute, Cintāmaṇi. So he was performing the rituals, but he was thinking of his girlfriend, that Cintāmaṇi, "When I shall go there?" Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura? Yes. So he asked his servants, "Give me some food. I shall go to Cintāmaṇi." So anyway, he performed... Did not perform. His mind was there.
Prabhupāda: Suppose if I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Materially I do not commit any offense or undergo any loss, but if there is any gain, why not try it? There is no expenditure. (laughs) Everything has got some expenditure. So this mantra, Kṛṣṇa or His later succession, do not sell or distribute. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone. Dance in ecstasy. It is very nice thing. So I have come to your country, come to your place. It is very good. So my request is that you are intelligent boys. Try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy with your all reason, arguments. It will not to be accepted blindly. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-kaj, the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says, caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra: "Just put into your judgement the mercy of Lord Caitanya." Vicāra karile citte paibe camatkāra: "And if you scrutinizingly judge over it, you'll find it is sublime." So we are putting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement not as a force, but to the judgement of the people. Let them judge.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: "I am the original source of everything. Everything is emanating from Me." Iti matvā, understanding like this, budhā. Budhā means those who are conversant, thoroughly in knowledge. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva samanvitāḥ, in ecstasy, "Oh, here is the original cause of all causes." So in this way those who are advanced in knowledge, budhā, they engage themselves in the service of the original cause of all causes. He's the cause of all causes, but He has no cause. That is God. Anādir ādir govindam. He has no cause, but He's the cause of all life. That is God. Just like I am the effect, my father is the cause. Similarly, my grandfather is the cause of my father. My grandfather is the effect of the cause of great-grandfather. You go on searching out, searching out. So when you find out the original cause, that is God. That is the definition of God.
Dr. Singh: When you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, is it not a state of ecstasy?
Prabhupāda: Why ecstasy? That is a misconception. It is a material... That spiritual ecstasy is very, very above all these things. First Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the example of Arjuna. Arjuna decided not to fight. But after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, when he became Kṛṣṇa conscious, he fought. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: to act under the direction of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Singh: An interesting thing struck me the other day, Swamiji, about the Bhagavad-gītā, that whether Arjuna would have fought or not, the war would nevertheless have taken place.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Singh: Whether Arjuna fought or not, the war would nevertheless have taken place, because both the armies were there, the conches had been sounded. So Arjuna's decision was not whether there should be war or whether there should not be war. Arjuna's decision was only whether he should fight or he should not fight.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that...
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything has got process. You have to adopt the process.
Bob: The devotees tell me of the ecstasy they feel when chanting.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is when... More you become purified, you feel ecstasy. But this chanting process is purifying process.
Śyāmasundara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this afternoon we were discussing about austerities.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Śyāmasundara: About austerities. If you don't practice voluntarily austerities, then you must involuntarily practice some austerities.
Prabhupāda: Yes, under the direction of spiritual master. You have no mind to follow austerities, but when you accept a spiritual master you have to carry out the order. That is austerity.
Prabhupāda: It is not superficial. This dancing is spiritual ecstasy. Otherwise it is not a dog's dance. You see? Any gentleman, if I ask you, "Please dance on this footpath," will you agree? It is not that dancing. You don't compare with that dancing. It is not dog's dance. They chant, they feel, they dance. That is another thing. You try to understand it. If they are coming from respectable families... Now, here is a boy. He is a professor. So if I ask him, "Please go and dance on the footpath," will he agree? A professor will agree? But when a professor dances, there is something. You should understand.
Prabhupāda: They do not issue the visa. The difficulty is. What can be done? Now you... Lalitā-Kṛṣṇa, his name is Lalitā-Kṛṣṇa? He is now initiated. He is pukka devotee. He is chanting, dancing, like anything, in ecstasy. He is a very good boy. Where he is now?
Śyāmasundara: Juhu.
Prabhupāda: Bombay. Oh, he is very intelligent. So if some of you become devotees, then you can start this movement there in Malaysia. It is a very nice movement. It is the movement for the present day, for human peace and love. So if... Every one of you should study the philosophy, try to understand it and spread it. That is good for you and good for others.
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya is preaching simply this, that you all chant Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, or Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Ei śikhā diyā, sab nadīyā phirche nece' gaura-nitāi. "By teaching this philosophy, the two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, are traveling all over Nadia." Māyār bośe, jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. "Why you are being carried away by the waves of māyā? Why, unnecessarily? And you are being drowned and saved." Jīv kṛṣṇa-dās, e biśwās, korle, "Simply believe that you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, then all these troubles immediately gone." Bolbe jabe, pulak ha'be, that "If you chant this, then you will feel ecstasy." Rādhā kṛṣṇa bolo, saṅge calo, ei-mātra bhikhā, "So I don't ask you anything. Simply chant and come with me." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Have you got puffed rice? No.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Faith, this is faith. When one believes firmly, sudṛdha-niś..., and with confidence. What is that? Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya: "If one becomes devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then all perfection comes." If one believes in this, that is the faith. Ādau śraddhā, with this faith one has to begin. Then the faith has to be increased by sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), by association with a devotee. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Then actually executing the devotional service. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then all misgivings will go away. Tato niṣṭhā. Then he becomes fixed-up. Tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ. Then attraction. Tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ athāsaktiḥ. Then he cannot leave. Āsaktiḥ. Tato bhāvaḥ. Then ecstasy. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet... These are the different stages of sādhaka, of a devotee, how to make progress.
Prabhupāda: So at least in Europe and America, they will never be able to take all these things. The things should be made shortcut; at the same time, they should be successful. So that is chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, depending on... As soon as we have got some time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Either loudly or silent... As far as possible loudly; if not possible, silently. But the tongue must go, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. The tongue must work. And as far as possible, should be heard... That is... And officially, krkshaharama (Prabhupāda chants very fast with words running into each other indistinctly). Not like that (chants again like that) Not like that. That will not... Every word should be distinctly chanted and heard, not official. So stress on this point. As far as possible, people should be encouraged to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and try to bring the ecstasy and dance. Even there is no ecstasy, dance, it will bring ecstasy. Dancing is so nice. Chanting, dancing and take prasādam. Take rest. That's all.
Prabhupāda: So how such big men, minister, could accept such position of a mendicant and live...? Now, gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau... So they got a better thing. They dipped into the ocean of the gopīs' ecstasy. They were always thinking of the gopīs' activities with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So unless one gets a better thing, he cannot give up the less important thing. So when, unless one gets that better thing—better humor, better mellow—they cannot give up these material engagements. Therefore, to get that better thing, it is advised that part of your hard labor you offer to Kṛṣṇa. This is called karma-yoga. You remain in your karma, but nirbandha, nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe, be touched with Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and spend at least fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa. Then, gradually, you come to the... Just like the Gosvāmīs came. So this is the policy. Otherwise, for Kṛṣṇa conscious men there is no need.
Govardhana: And then he went away for one week and associated with some Christians, and they convinced him that he had committed a great sin, that he should come to the temple and destroy the Deity. So after dancing and chanting in ecstasy, taking prasādam and reading Bhagavad-gītā, he returned to the temple one week later and tried to destroy the Deity.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Govardhana: Detroit.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he attempted it?
Govardhana: Yes, but we prevented him.
Prabhupāda: So we must be careful. There may be so many fanatics.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And actually there is no separation, but the feeling of separation out of ecstatic love. Just like one who has got love for the other person, beloved, he always thinks like that, "My beloved may not be separated from me." This is ecstasy of love. Just like a miser man who has got much wealth, he always thinks, "My money may not be lost. My money may not be lost." Out of his too much attachment for the money, he thinks like that. Is it not? "How shall I protect this money? How shall I protect this?" To earn money is also troublesome. To keep money also troublesome. And when it is lost, that is also troublesome. This is the position. But there is no such thing, loss, but the anxiety is there. We shall return from here? (break) ...vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. So both the sādhu and the duṣkṛtina, by Kṛṣṇa's two activities, act differently to the devotees and to the demons. They realize.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that attention, ecstasy, comes in Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Otherwise these young boys are chanting and dancing... Unless there is ecstasy... They are not monkeys. They are human beings. They are dancing, with education, with culture. Unless there is spiritual ecstasy, how they can chant and dance for hours together? It is not monkey dancing. It is spiritual. It is spiritual.
Jesuit: Oh, I can see that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is God's omnipotency. When you offer sincere prayer, the words become spiritual. That is wanted. If you sincerely offer your prayers, God understands. Even though sound appears to be material it is no more material; it is spiritual. Just like... I will give you one example. Just you put one iron rod in the fire. So the iron rod becomes warm, warmer, warmer, and then it becomes red hot. When it is red hot, it is no more iron. It is fire. You touch that red hot anywhere; it will burn.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, these boys they are coming from your Christian group, Jewish group, but they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One priest in Boston, he issued one pamphlet that "These boys are our boys, and before this movement, they didn't care to come to the church. And now they are mad after God. How is it? The same boys." So indirectly he accepted this process as easier to understand God. And actually it is easier. What do they do? They don't go to the forest, or meditate, or make any very austere, what is called, penances. They simply chant in the morning and dance in ecstasy and then eat sumptuously. That's all. And now they have given up everything. Now, you bribe them, "You eat meat." They will never eat. They will not drink tea even. The method is... The American government they spent lots of money for stopping this addiction to drugs. And these boys, as soon as they come to me, they give up. Ask them what money I have bribed them. You can ask how they have left it.
Prabhupāda: Ecstasy.
Yogi Bhajan: I said, "Why not?" I asked the question. I said, "Why not? What is wrong with them? What do you feel?" "But that's not in America. You know, we don't go and dance everywhere." I said, "You go in ballroom dances and you dance all the time. You drink and you dance, and you do what you want to do. And they just, in their own life, feel that they enjoy dancing right for God and the world. You dance for your own social contact. They dance for their own divine contact. What is wrong with them? Their leader, their prophet, their spiritual guide danced to God, and they dance to God. Why you think, why you go to the church?" "We go to pray." I said, "That's their prayer. Why don't you understand the prayer aspect of it? Why you want to understand how they dress, how they like, how they dislike each other?" And the second question somebody asked me, "But do you think somebody has the right to convert our children?" I said, "But do you think somebody has not the right..."
Prabhupāda: I never asked them to be converted.
Harikeśa: So we went to a convention two weeks ago, and they were all doing their scientific experiments, and they were trying so many different methods to enjoy sex life and be happy, and then the last day we had a big kīrtana for two and a half hours. And all of these people who were so frustrated by all of their other methods came, psychologists and professors and chairmens of department, and little old ladies, and they were all jumping up and down in ecstasy for two and a half hours.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Harikeśa: And they said, "Oh, this is the best process. Because this is joyful realization." They said, "You people really have something here."
Prabhupāda: So in that way, if they understand, that is good.
Harikeśa: That seemed to be the only way they'll understand.
Siddha-svarūpa: So that's more effective than making some experiments and bringing them some graphs.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there in everyone's core of heart, but due to one's material conditional life, he has forgotten it. So this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra means to revive that consciousness. It is already there. Just like a few days ago these American, European boys and girls, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. But now you have seen yesterday how their whole, that procession, throughout the whole procession, how they were chanting and dancing in ecstasy. So do you think that is artificial? No. Artificially nobody can chant and dance for hours together. That means the awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It was there; by the bona fide process, it is now awakened.
Prabhupāda: In Kali-yuga it is very difficult to reform the whole human society to become perfect by this process, Vedic process. It is not possible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, that "You chant congregationally this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Never mind. Whatever impurities have entered, it will be all cleansed." That you have seen yesterday in the procession. So everyone was chanting in ecstasy Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have seen? Yes. So this is the process which we are trying to introduce, not anything, caste system or this system, no. Then everything will come automatically. Easiest process.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Science means observation and experiment. That is science. You observe that this man is moving. There is something... (sound of someone calling from a distance) (Prabhupāda calls:) Invite him. You are invited come. (laughter)
Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the psychologist is in ecstasy every time he speaks to you.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. No, he is a good boy. Although I say, "You do not know anything." (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't become angry?
Prabhupāda: No.
Brahmānanda: He admitted.
Prabhupāda: He is good man.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: And if he's not feeling increased ecstasy, then he should try to change his position or try to perform...
Prabhupāda: No. There is no change of position. Position is the same.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: Because once this question was asked that... In class a devotee asked that "I'm losing my taste for serving the Deity, and I don't know what to do," and so they asked this question. So...
Prabhupāda: He can chant. There is no question of "I am losing interest." If he is actually following the rules and regulations, there is no question of losing interest.
Hari-śauri: There is never any decrease.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: You mean if one simply follows everything that is outlined in the temple schedule and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That should be strictly followed.
Prabhupāda: So there is no formula of quality. It is to be understood by himself. Just like if after eating something you feel refreshed and get strength, that is quality. You haven't got to take certificate: "Will you give me a certificate that I have eaten?" You'll understand whether eaten or not. That is quality. When you will feel so much ecstasy in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is quality. Not artificially—"Chant. Chant. Otherwise get out." This is not quality. This is in expectation that someday you may come to quality. That requires time. That requires sincerity. But quality is there. Śravanādi śuddha citte karaye... It will be awakened. Not by force. Just like love between two persons, it cannot be forced. "You must love him. You must love her." Oh, that is no love. That is not love. When automatically you love one another, that is quality. Dora vede(?) prema.
Prabhupāda: Kīrtana, oh.
Girirāja: Actually, he comes and dances in ecstasy in the temple.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31).
Girirāja: After the kīrtana we read the Kṛṣṇa book, and his parents want to leave, but he insists on staying.
Prabhupāda: Good boy. Very good.
Yaśomatīnandana: What was that, inquired?
Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?
Yaśomatīnandana: Girirāja was saying something.
Girirāja: Oh, yes, the scientist. When the reporter asked him where the things come from, he said he doesn't know but he's sure that...
Prabhupāda: Still, he is scientist. He doesn't know. He is rascal, still he is scientist. (laughter) Just see. Contradiction. He doesn't know. Still, he is scientist. One word. He doesn't know anything, but he is scientist.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The children, they are enjoying. In the morning they are... That is wanted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they're in ecstasy.
Bhavānanda: All day they enjoy. When they are sweeping the road, they don't know that there's difference between work and play.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Bhavānanda: To them, sweeping the road is their play. They love it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These children are much more hard working than the children in America. Like these few American boys that are here, they cannot compare with these Bengali boys.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gāñjā smoking is not taken as bad in India, by the sādhus, not ordinary men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. He told me, Mr. Das, that it increased his meditation and ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, gāñjā smoking by the sādhus, sannyāsīs, is not taken very bad serious. The hippies learned from them. Allen Ginsberg introduced... "Yes. Gāñjā smoking is very good by the saintly person."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think your Guru Mahārāja spoke strongly against such persons.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And from him we learned that intoxication, any kind of intoxication, is bad.
Prabhupāda: "He's my mother," "He's my son." Sentiment is there even in ordinary relationship. You cannot avoid sentiment. Just like we're dancing. That is also sentiment, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." That is sentiment. But that does not mean because he's dancing in sentiment, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Sentiment must be there. That is ecstasy, enjoyment. But not blind sentiment. (break) ...you do not know, know from Kṛṣṇa. Anybody can say "I do not know who is my father." And if the real father says, "I'm your father, my son," then how he can prove? How he does not know? If he says, "No, I don't believe you that you are my father," then what is the..., what is evidence? He knows. The mother also says, "Yes, he's your father." " No, I don't believe." What is the evidence? The father is saying, "I'm father." The mother is saying, "Yes, he's your father." But the rascal is saying, "No, I don't believe it."
Prabhupāda: And from the surrendering point, further progress, that is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And when the love is intense, to make it more intensified, that is Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, mad after God. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. "I find everything vacant without Kṛṣṇa." That is the supreme ecstasy. So these things cannot happen (chuckles) without love. If you love somebody, then if he's not there you find everything vacant. Otherwise why? There are so many things. "How," people will say, "you are seeing vacant? Everything is filled up." That is another stage, transcendental platform. Lover and beloved, they can understand. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. That is the supreme stage of love. Is that clear or not?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Hari-śauri: Kīrtana, the reaction was amazing, people were dancing and chanting and waving, Prabhupāda was in ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New York climate is very nice. Sometimes now it rains a little bit, then shining. So just like Bengal.
Rāmeśvara: I observed that these devotees at New York, they've practically given up sleeping this past week to prepare everything for your arrival.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are so kind to me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they worked very hard.
Rāmeśvara: It reminded me that time when the Press devotees stayed up all the time to get those Caitanya-caritāmṛta volumes. The same spirit. They just stopped eating and sleeping.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. I think this is not good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shall I read on? "The service has become..." What way should we dance, Śrīla Prabhupāda? With our hands outstretched? Sometimes the devotees like to jump around. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: In ecstasy one can do anything, that is another... But artificially to do something is not good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But if one feels like jumping, it is all right?
Prabhupāda: Anything artificial is not required.
Rūpānuga: So running back and forth is not...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that should not be an artificial.
Hari-śauri: "Ecstasy Outdoors."
Prabhupāda: And Jayānanda should be congratulated. Yes. Give one letter, written. I...
Bali-mardana: The carts looked magnificent.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two people worked the hardest Prabhupāda, Jayānanda and all of his assistants, and Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa. He did all of the publicity and advertisement.
Prabhupāda: They should be congratulated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These two men, they worked the hardest.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They worked for two months in a row, solid. The carts were very good, I think.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very nice, very strong.
Hari-śauri: What answer did you give?
Yogeśvara: Do you remember the answer Śrīla Prabhupāda gave?
Devotee: Prabhupāda said we work for cultivating grains. All living entities to live together peacefully. (projector goes off)
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Bhagavān: You have done something very extraordinary.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I was explaining our ecstasy. (laughter) Who will feel that ecstasy? That is not possible. They can lecture only. No ecstasy. Here is ecstasy, that is the difference. Ecstasy means immediately on the spiritual platform.
Prabhupāda: And this is the only platform where real United Nations can be made. That is practical. That is practical. That United Nation has failed. If this Indian culture... I have given this philosophy to the American students. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. That a lame man and a blind man, separately, both of them are useless. But when they combine together, the lame man is taken on the shoulder of the blind man, and the lame man has got eyes but he has no legs. He gives direction and the blind man goes. So the, at the present moment I am trying to spread this movement all over the world. But we have no means. So let America supply the money, and let them take our direction for the culture. That will be United Nation. And actually it will become. How they are dancing, black, white, Indian, American, European, in Ratha-yātrā? There is no politics. It is out of really spiritual ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: So it is very pleasing spot. You have done nice. I'm feeling nice.
Hari-śauri: Your pleasure is our pleasure.
Caraṇāravindam: It is your mercy. It is ecstasy to come in here and do something on the garden for you. Very good. I want to see lotuses growing. Then I will be happy. Nice lotuses. When I can pick a lotus and give to you, then it is nice. Then it is finished. Lilies, lotus, nice bushes, very happy inside. This grass has just been laid and I think after two weeks it will be very first class.
Prabhupāda: Nobody should walk.
Prabhupāda: No, around the road, Hare Kṛṣṇa dancing. (laughter) There is no need of ballroom. They become mad dancing. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. That is ecstasy. So when the ecstasy is there, they understand this is life. (break)
Mr. Malhotra: Mr. Biani, Biani. He is just Birla's tea (indistinct) looking after tea. Last time I was in Delhi about two months back, so I just talked about you that I had to meet you and we could go to Vṛndāvana. Because at that time I was told that you were there. So he knew you very well, he had been to your discourses, Mr. Biani. He's Marwari. They are in Calcutta. Tea business, export tea business. We agreed on one thing, that it is very easy, rather, to make Indians understand the spiritual teachings of Lord Kṛṣṇa, because in homes, in houses, forefathers, grandmothers, mothers, they are doing, I mean, always. But to, I mean, impart this knowledge to the...
Prabhupāda: Dance and chant. This is best exercise. We allow them to dance very... Yes. High jump. Actually that is exercise and, at the same time ecstasy. If they dance and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is automatically a very big exercise and spiritual advancement. Yes. Yes. There is no doubt about it. If he chants and dances, immediately he become ecstatic.
Hari-śauri: Breathing is there.
Prabhupāda: Ah! Yes.
Hari-śauri: Everything is there.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, that why... It depends on the teacher. If the teacher is a very good speaker and preacher, he can, right in the introduction, point out how this yoga is different from the other yogas which are bogus.
Prabhupāda: Don't say it is different. It is the authorized.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Just like gopīs. They were always hankering: "When we shall see Kṛṣṇa? When we shall see Kṛṣṇa? When I shall...? When I shall meet?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. "Oh, I see everything vacant without Govinda." This is ecstasy of lobha, to meet Kṛṣṇa. So when you will be strongly hankering after Kṛṣṇa, lobha, greedy, or devotee, then lobha is properly utilized.
Dr. Patel: When Kṛṣṇa disappeared from rasa, what they did?
Prabhupāda: There are so many instances. You can utilize your hankering for Kṛṣṇa and His devotees.
Trivikrama: There's one verse like that, ekalaṁ mūlyaṁ lobha...
Prabhupāda: Laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam. Laulyam, yes, right. That is greediness. Laulyam. The verse is by Rūpa Gosvāmī. He advises, kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate: "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you purchase. If it is available somewhere, immediately purchase it." So the next question is, if you want to purchase something, you must pay the price.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Purpose... That is the way. That is the way.
Mr. Koshi: To?
Prabhupāda: To spiritual understanding in this age. Ecstasy. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). You have to follow the Vedic injunctions. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Utkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau.
Mr. Koshi: So by looking at him you are trying to rouse the interests of the people, or curiosity?
Prabhupāda: You can take interest in so many ways. If you are not interested in that way, read books. Are you not interested in reading books? Read. We have got many ways. That is for mass of people. The class of people who wants to understand this movement through science, philosophy, come on, read these books.
Girirāja: Mr. Jethmalani. I said I would come and meet him. I also wanted to show him the movie. So he said that "I would prefer to come back here, because it is so nice." Actually, when he was... After he washed his hands, he looked out of the balcony, and he said that just from this atmosphere, one can feel a sense of ecstasy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those baṛā, would you like them, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I have taken two, more than two. I could have taken...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More. You had a good taste for them.
Prabhupāda: But I did not try it. Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Out of their own accord, they were giving, "Thanks, Prabhupāda. Thanks, Prabhupāda." They were not my disciples.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, with great feeling they were serving.
Prabhupāda: Others. But they felt an ecstasy. So continue this ideal, and they will be very innocent and transcendental. It has nothing to do with material contact. Material contamination cannot touch it. Your country, very vast and big. Some of them have become... So farm there.(?) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But during Ratha-yātrā, everyone will be shown. Such a nice festival. Everyone will be forced to give. That is beginning. (break) Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. She's interested in every single aspect of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Special feature of our temple, you'll see, younger generation, boys and girls from respectable families, they are coming. Did you mark this?
Prabhupāda: Still, they are happy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...feeling ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: Every letter I receive from my disciple, how happy they are, it is explained.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every letter it's the same.
Prabhupāda: Cakhu-dān dilo jei, janme janme...
Devotees: Prabhu sei.
Prabhupāda: Prabhu sei. So this eye-opening is given by guru. Cakhu-dān dilo jei, janme janme prabhu sei. Then?
Śatadhanya: Divya-jñān hṛde prokāśito.
Prabhupāda: Divya-jñān hṛde prokāśito. Oh, he understands, "This is the way of happiness." Śrī-guru-caraṇe rati, ei sei uttama-gati, ār nā koriho mane āśā. That if one gets just guide, then that is happiness. Otherwise there is no happiness. Śrī-guru-caraṇa-padma, kevala-bhakati-sadma... Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This will be added incentive to complete, to build your house.
Bhavānanda: Everyone will be in ecstasy, especially the Gurukula boys most of all. They're always asking, "When is Śrīla Prabhupāda coming? When he's coming? Tomorrow?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And I will cash those certificates when we get to Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then I don't have to call for them. If we go there, then I'll do everything there. It will be very easy.
Prabhupāda: So that is my proposal. Now you think over seriously and arrange for.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we have to go soon, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Actually, to take you to different places is the greatest ecstasy, because there's no greater pleasure the devotees have than when you first arrive, they see you. Their feelings know no bounds. Airport arrivals have always been ecstatic over the years, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The newspapers always remark how ecstatic they are.
Prabhupāda: What is the condition of the road?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This road is hopeless. We have to find an alternate way.
Bhakti-caru: How about going from Mathurā to Delhi by train?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning you were asking for Bharadvāja? Here he is. We thought of a better way to go, Śrīla Prabhupāda, than car. We'll take the Taj Express from Mathurā to Delhi. It's quite a nice train ride. It takes only one hour and forty-five minutes, and it doesn't even stop one time.
| Page Title: | Ecstasy (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 25 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=56, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 56 |