Easier (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"easier"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: How to take the money that's being donated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the beginning. They are making a show now, but eventually the plan will be to close all the temples.

Mahāṁsa: Nationalize all temples.

Harikeśa: Not close, 'cause you can make a lot of money. It's easier than enacting taxes.

Mahāṁsa: Just like banks.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but when they don't become profitable then they'll close it. That's the point. Milk 'em dry. Instead of the state or the government being the servant of the Deity, they are making the Deity the servant of the government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Money-earning servant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The tax collector.

Acyutānanda: Just like they nationalize industries, they want to nationalize the temple, Kṛṣṇa.

Harikeśa: In Andhra Pradesh all the temples are nationalized?

Indian man (1): Yes, all temples.

Harikeśa: What about ours?

Mahāṁsa: Well, they're not so strong in the other states. Andhra Pradesh and...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they'll copy it. I think they're starting in U.P. now. I read in the paper.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Original fragrance of the earth"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Out of that, most fragrant flavor, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am directly that." So if you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, having this flavor, he'll understand, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. This flavor is there all over this earth, but you cannot see it. That does not mean there is no God. But He is there.

Viśvakarmā: It would be easier for them if they didn't live in the cities, because the cities make it so hard for anybody to understand there is a God.

Prabhupāda: After all, understanding... Therefore they are mūḍhas. They have to understand. If they do not understand, they remain mūḍha. That is human life. The human being should understand that "I am mūḍha, so I'll have to learn." And the Vedas says, "Then go to guru." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "You must go if you want to learn." And if he remains mūḍha and speculates, then he remains mūḍha. He never gets the enlightenment. He remains continually... Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). He cannot get God. Life after life, he will go on like that, mūḍha. Asuriṣu-yoni. Asurika-yoni. He'll remain completely ignorant about God, what was his function, only function to understand God during this life of human form of life. And so-called science wants to keep him rascal and mūḍha, that's all. Therefore we fight so much with these rascals, big rascals. They want to keep them. He is mūḍha, he is blind, and he's trying to lead other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām (SB 7.5.31).

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But working... But we have got the already conclusion. Why should we work like a fool?

Acyutānanda: That's an excuse because you cannot explain to your children when they come.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are explaining. Kṛṣṇa says, "This is I am." This is God. This is God. You are fool. You are searching after. But we know. Here is God. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am this flavor." So as soon as you have this flavor, you understand Kṛṣṇa is there. It is easier. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ.

Acyutānanda: There was an arti...

Prabhupāda: Just like the sunshine is there. Here is Kṛṣṇa. So we have no difficulty. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Here is puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca.

Acyutānanda: There was now a statement from the scientists, "Scientists are no longer positive why the sun shines." Like... They were positive, and they said, "We are positive." Now they are no longer positive why the sun shines.

Prabhupāda: What is that, "positive"?

Acyutānanda: They don't know... Before they were sure. Now they're not sure why the sun shines. They had concocted an idea, and they declared it as a law, a scientific law. Now they have..., again doubting their own law.

Guru-kṛpā: Actually the flavor that's in the flower comes from the different secretion, and by different mixture, different flavors come out.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, what is that mixture?

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: It can be organized. The children should be raised Kṛṣṇa devotees. The woman can be engaged. Everyone can be engaged. I can give you suggestion if you can execute.

Hṛdayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were thinking that it would be nice to have the cities, city-centers, for the preachers, and those, for example, women, children, it's much easier to maintain them on our farms. That way they can do a little work and produce their own food and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the farms they can live and do some handwork.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Guru-kṛpā: They won't do it, though, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Hṛdayānanda: They must do.

Prabhupāda: Then you don't allow. Don't allow that. Don't allow.

Guru-kṛpā: That's good.

Hṛdayānanda: Maintenance is much more simple, easier, less expensive for them on a farm.

Prabhupāda: If they do not follow the rules and regulations, then what is the use?

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Then what remains? The teeth is dangerous. Yes, how condemned life. And we had to pass through all these. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine lakhs of forms in the water. Crocodile is one of these. Just see how accurate is Vedic information. Never says "ten lakhs" or "eight lakhs." Nine lakhs. Now, if you don't believe, count. Go ahead. Count. How this knowledge is there? Nobody can go within the water to count how many forms are there, but how the Vedas gives the knowledge perfectly? Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. This is Vedic knowledge. Where you cannot reach and you refer to Vedas, you'll get the knowledge. That is Vedas, perfect knowledge. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given the example: stool is impure, rejectable. Everyone knows. Veda says, "No, cow dung is pure." And you examine it; you'll find it is pure. That is Vedic knowledge. When you get information from the Vedas, it is perfectly right. So it is easier to take knowledge from the Vedas. Then you'll become perfect in knowledge. There is no question of researching. That is not possible. What you'll research? How many animals are there, aquatics are there, in the water? It is beyond your experience. Is there any scientist who can go within the water and count how many aquatic forms are there? Nothing you can do. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣā viṁśati.(?)What information we have got? Even you cannot speak perfectly well about this universe. We are not able even to speak perfectly what is there in the moon planet. They are going, trying to go, and coming back. And still, they are claiming perfection as perfect as God. Just see how lunatic they are.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that the newly initiated brāhmaṇas have to come now. Maybe we should...

Prabhupāda: So some meeting is not going to be held down?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there's constantly kīrtanas and discourses.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Five hours, again nine hours.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And then it was about three hours to South Africa from Mauritius.

Prabhupāda: No, from Mauritius they can go directly to Australia. No?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Direct to?

Prabhupāda: Australia.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. If the flight is broken up like that, it's a little easier, from South Africa to Mauritius to Perth, or even to Bombay. It's about the same distance from Bombay to Mauritius as to Australia from Mauritius.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda is thinking about going from India to South Africa to Australia to make the flight easier.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it makes the flight easier, because you're going like a triangle, this way and then this way. Let us arrange some nice program first, so that when you come again we'll have something nice to offer you.

Prabhupāda: I think in Mauritius there is good field. They adopted culture.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The problem in Mauritius has been that either they don't know how to collect, or they say it's a very poor country and they're not able to get funds to start any kind of a dynamic program.

Prabhupāda: They cannot chant even?

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I have seen very minute, walking very..., exactly like a big...

Guru-kṛpā: In Vṛndāvana, when we were staying at Bon's place, there was big colony of ants. Ants, thousands of them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got all the sense, all the sympathy. For eating, sleeping, mating, they have got all intelligence.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What I mean to say is, physiologically speaking, at least from biological viewpoint, some of these creatures don't even have hearts. They're much easier to manufacture, the parts of their bodies.

Prabhupāda: You say there is no heart just like you say no soul. That is your vers.... I say that "When he is doing everything like a human being he has got everything." It is your insufficient knowledge that you say that.... Just like you say there is no soul. But that is your insufficient knowledge. That's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61). When Īśvara is in everyone's heart, how you can.... Hṛd-deśe. How you say there is no heart? That is nonsense, another nonsense.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So this is speaking of the material heart.

Prabhupāda: Material, spiritual, you do not know anything. You don't talk. Better you become silent.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe, specifically said, "within the heart." The.... Even a germlike, what is called, atom, less than atom, there is heart. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, hṛd-deśe?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe. Every living entity.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: "Thieves, professional servants, soldiers and merchants try to acquire money even by risking their very dear lives."

Prabhupāda: Merchants also. Formerly, merchants used to go from one country.... And now they also go, now. Facility of transport is easier. Formerly, they had to cross the big ocean, Atlantic Ocean, Pacific Ocean, waves, and many of them died. Still, for money, they used to go.

Hṛdayānanda: Still today, Prabhupāda, many, for example, many big American merchants are being killed in the foreign countries by the Communists and so on. Its very risky still. Many American merchants are being killed in foreign countries.

Gopavṛndapāla: Many people also, they are collecting money all throughout this life, but they don't use it for their own sense gratification, yet they leave it for their children and they think in this way: "My children will enjoy, and then all my work had some value."

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. Where he is going he does not know. He's thinking of his grandchildren. This is called māyā.

Dr. Wolfe: That is also attachment to the material world, because he wants to be thought of.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are different symptom of material attachment. He does not know who is the rascal coming as my grandchild, but he is making bank balance for them.

Dr. Wolfe: Yeah. He wants to be remembered.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Ambarīṣa: The temple is only one block away. We were wondering, should we offer the food to the Deities in the temple or should we offer it in the restaurant?

Prabhupāda: Better in the restaurant.

Ambarīṣa: Better in the restaurant. Yes, that is a little easier also.

Prabhupāda: They must know that they're eating prasādam.

Ambarīṣa: Yes, yes.

Śrutikīrti: There was one other thing. Mānasvī, he is outside of New York. And I don't know very much what his position is. I talked to him once, he wanted to see you in New York. I don't know if you know that. Because he says that all these things are not true. No.

Prabhupāda: He's a thief. He has taken about twenty-five thousand dollars. He's a thief from the very beginning. What he is doing now?

Śrutikīrti: He's working two jobs. They won't allow him in the temple. I think you sent one letter or something.

Prabhupāda: No, he should not be admitted.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: But what if they say that "Actually this life of growing the castor seed is very difficult, farming is very difficult. It is easier to go to the factory for eight hours, and then I come home with my money and I enjoy."

Prabhupāda: No, you enjoy, but by enjoying, if you forget your real business, is that intelligent? Your real business is that you have got this human form of body to improve your next life. You are going to have a next life. Suppose you are going to be a dog. Is that success? So you must know the science that instead of becoming dog, how shall you become God. That is intelligence.

Kīrtanānanda: Why is it any better to grow castor seed than to dig oil?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: Why is it any better to grow castor seed than to...

Prabhupāda: No, you require lamp. So you finish that lamping business as simply as possible. In the balance time you save you improve your self-realization. That is the life. Just like this child, he wants to play. He does not go to school, does not take an education, and he improves type of toys, toys, he's engaged in improved type of football playing, and... Then is that very good intelligence?

Kīrtanānanda: But nobody works longer hours than the farmer.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, passion, there must be. When you have got the facility, naturally we are lusty, and when we have got the facility, then we take to it.

Kulaśekhara: The country is more peaceful. It's easier to think of spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Less disease. Less brain taxing. Everything is less. So balance time, utilize for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you have got temple, it is very happy life. Just for your food work little, and balance time engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is ideal life. Just see minute fibers on the flower. Can anyone manufacture this? So small fibers. And how brilliant it is. If you study only one flower, you become God conscious. There is a machine which we call nature. From that machine, everything is coming. But how machine is perfect? And who has discovered this machine?

Kulaśekhara: In London you said they do not know that the butterflies and flowers are painted, but Kṛṣṇa paints them with thought.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How you can expect without painting it has come so beautiful? This is foolishness, "nature"—what is this nature? Everything is being done by the machine of Kṛṣṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividaiva śrūyate. Anyway, improve this mode of life. Live in open place, produce your food grains, produce your milk, save time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Plain living, high thinking, ideal life. Artificial necessities of life do increase your so-called comforts, but if you forget your real business, that is suicidal. We want to stop this suicidal policy. We don't want to stop the modern advancement of technology, although the so-called advancement technology is suicidal. But we don't talk of this. (laughter) Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore given a simple formula-chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even in your technological factories, you can chant. What is the wrong there? You go on pulling on with your machine and chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Niyataḥ. You should read Bhagavad-gītā so thoroughly for everything. That is good lawyer. Good lawyer means in the court, immediately give reference to the judge, "My Lordship, such and such law, under section...this is there." He's a good lawyer. Good lawyer means he immediately gives reference to the section on which he's talking. Immediately judgement is there. If there is previous authority and it is recorded in the lawbook, then he doesn't require to argue anymore, the evidence is there. Even in other court, if some judgement is there, they'll be accepted. This is the law. So a good lawyer means he gives references from different courts, the judgement makes easier. Instead of proceeding for a long time, he gives reference—"Here is the judgement, you see," and immediately...

Dhṛṣṭadyumna:

niyataḥ kuru karma tvaṁ

karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ

śarīra-yatrāpi ca te

na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ

"Perform your prescribed duty, for action is better than inaction. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean to keep a set of men lazy, who cannot work. That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone must work to his capacity. Prescribed duties. They accuse us that we are escaping. Huh? What is that? We do not escape. We are always busy.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This year's?

Devotee (1): Yes. People would drive by the temple, Prabhupāda, and just look. They would drive by and look once, drive a little further and look twice and three times.

Prabhupāda: But San Francisco we haven't got our temple. We haven't got any temple?

Devotee (1): No. We used the photograph. We made a publicity notice, a news release, and they printed it directly. It was easier for them. The picture is of San Francisco, but the festival was in Cleveland.

Prabhupāda: There is no date? Hmm?

Devotee (1): Maybe not in that one article. Other articles, there are dates.

Prabhupāda: Is this Cleveland?

Devotee (1): Yes. There are many skyscrapers, tall buildings, there are many tall buildings, and people were looking out at the Ratha-yātrā cart and at Lord Jagannātha.

Prabhupāda: Here, the daytime is...

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: We have found, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the buses are going to many of these cities, they have never seen our devotees, because when we go, we are dressed like they are for distributing the books. So now the boys are going again in the streets with a kīrtana party once a week downtown, and they have all done front-page newspaper articles, because although they have been reading the books, they have never seen the devotees in many years. I think festivals like this...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct)

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda mentions in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the Third Canto, that a yogi is recommended to take foodstuffs, half as much as he desires, one quarter water, one quarter air, one quarter foodstuff. Is that fully recommended for a person in the the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society? If so, how can you be (indistinct)?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The basic principle is that—Prabhupāda mentioned earlier in this afternoon's talk—that if you can control the tongue, especially eating habits, then you'll be able to conquer other things such as sleep. Not only sleep, but also overeating produces other problems like sex desire. Vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ jihvā-vegam udaropastha-vegam. So jihva, the tongue and the belly, udara, upastha, genital, one straight line, like this. So there's a correlation. If one overindulges in eating, then it becomes very difficult also to conquer sex desire, which is the main attraction, or bondage within this material world, not only for the human being but for every living entity. So the principle is that if you don't overeat it will become easier for you to conquer all the senses, as Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, tongue is the most formidable of all the senses. Tāra madhye jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudur... always lusting after more and more. Never satisfied. So we have to become sufficiently enlightened to regulate eating habits. This is done by taking prasādam at regular times, and gradually, intelligently you can see what you actually require. Not that everyone will require the same amount. Just like there's a plate of food so one person is big or one person is small. An elephant and an ant, both of them have different quotas. So everyone has a particular quota of prasādam they should take. Gradually by practice apart from this (indistinct) is required. It's common sense.

Guest: There are two, two functions in the tongue, one is (indistinct) and one is (indistinct)? So which one (indistinct). Preaching is a form of tapasya? (indistinct)

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, at any stage of life, if one accepts the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he can make advance.

Rāmeśvara: She asked, "Is it more favorable for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness if there is some material problems, social problems? If there is a lack of God consciousness, then people become frustrated. Is that a more favorable situation for Kṛṣṇa consciousness to take root?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, if we arrange social, political and everything favorable for spiritual understanding, then it becomes easier.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda is saying the opposite than what you hypothesized. In other words, if everything is arranged socially, politically, everything, in a God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious manner, then it is easier to accept the principles of God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Just like... These are all discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā, what kind of social arrangement should be. That... It is called varṇāśrama-dharma. A brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—these are different groups, and if they are favorably trained up then spiritual understanding becomes very easy.

Interviewer: Can you tell me a little bit about the future direction of the movement, how you plan to expand.

Prabhupāda: That is... That is going on already. Just like these boys, they did not know about Kṛṣṇa some years ago, but they are taking seriously. The same process, if it is continued, then people will take.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: So perhaps I'd like an interview with you as well.

Jayatīrtha: That would be good.

Mukunda: You want to do it now or later?

Mike Robinson: It would perhaps be easier if I could do that one first. You could answer the ones that.... So which questions would he be happier answering? What you believe, that sort of?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Mike Robinson: And develop from that. I'm sorry about that. If I ask you a few questions about what you believe and that sort of, along those lines, and then get some of the background material from some of your other members of the movement. Can you tell me what you believe, what is the philosophy of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is not a question of belief, it is a science, a spiritual movement. Just like a man is living and he's dead, what is the difference? The difference is that the spirit soul or the living force is out of the body. Therefore he's called dead body. So there are two things, anyone can appreciate. One, this body, and other, the living force of the body. So we are speaking of the living force of the body. That is the difference between material and spiritual. As such, in the beginning, it is very difficult for ordinary man to understand what is our movement, but our movement begins when one understands that he is soul or something other than this body. Then this movement begins.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: These farming projects therefore I introduced, New Vrindaban, it is successful; Philadelphia, it is going on nicely; New Orleans; here also. In London we haven't got much land, but still we have got sufficient land. (pause) So if we have to go by jet plane on Saturday, then we shall get down Iran.

Harikeśa: We were just deciding whether.... I think it's easier in Geneva, because the airport is only fifteen minutes from the temple.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Harikeśa: In Geneva. The temple and the airport are very close, and there's a direct plane on Friday from Geneva to Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How many hours?

Harikeśa: About seven.

Prabhupāda: That's nice, that is also nice.

Harikeśa: So we're just going to decide after this which is exactly the best thing to do.

Prabhupāda: That is also nice. Which day the...?

Harikeśa: The airplane is on Friday.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: I also thought of a way to help the children remember the Kṛṣṇa book stories easier. It was... You started that long time ago with Madhupuri, you asked her to make the Kṛṣṇa book into a poem. That was a long time ago in New York, then she didn't do it...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa book is not difficult to be understood by...

Jyotirmāyī: I was thinking if we make into poem and put music and they sing it, then they can remember...

Prabhupāda: That you can do, to make it understandable easily. It is already easy. If you want to make more easy, then do that.

Jyotirmāyī: Okay. You also allowed... You said that some parents can keep their children with them and teach themselves.

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: If they understand any book, Īśopaniṣad, if they understand, they will get improvement.

Nandarāṇī: Any book. Some Bhagavad-gītās I do, but it's an exceptional Iranian who can even read the book, what to speak of understand the concepts. Īśopaniṣad is easier for them. We are very eager to translate into Persian.

Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.

Nandarāṇī: Īśopaniṣad, yes. I think that will be our first big attempt. Some essays we will try to do. "Who is Crazy?" is very good for them, they appreciate that article, and...

Prabhupāda: They appreciate?

Nandarāṇī: Yes, we have explained to some of them the concepts in "Who is Crazy?" and Īśopaniṣad is a good book for them.

Prabhupāda: So your daughter is good assistant in the matter of cooking?

Nandarāṇī: Yes, they are both very good in cooking. And they clean the altar and they do some maintenance of the altar and the temple room, and they cook and sew, and I give them class in the morning, Bhagavad-gītā in English.

Prabhupāda: Yes, teach them personally. That Aniruddha is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Nandarāṇī: They are?

Prabhupāda: No, Aniruddha.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Ātreya, when this is going on you cannot talk, then the attention will be diverted. You can later on explain. Go on.

Harikeśa: "The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The yogis and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of..."

Prabhupāda: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters. Go on.

Harikeśa: "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, we can supply nim leaves from India, any amount, from Vṛndāvana.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Nim leaves from Vṛndāvana is unique, nobody can imitate us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nim leaves we can export from India. In the United Provinces there is ample nim trees. That time I shall give you instruction also.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We will start, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is better than..., this is easier than restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Now you consider amongst yourselves. I have no difficulty, I have given direction, "Do like that." Now what you'll do, that is up to you. So far giving help and directions, that you will get perfect, there is no doubt about it. That you will get. How to manage, how to get ingredients, everything you'll get. Because I have to say only, you have to do. That's all. So that will be all right. Now decide. That will be very nice or very effective. Whatever we shall prepare, it will be very effective. So if there is market, why not? Introduce. I think there will be market because this country is undeveloped.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We will manage it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There will be plenty of market.

Prabhupāda: We require all these things. The more they become civilized, the more they require medicine and all these things. So you decide. I am so far giving instruction and help, and that will be available.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We have been, Śrīla Prabhupāda, talking and thinking about it amongst ourselves, that now that we have this propensity to be in business, instead of working for karmīs we should have our own business.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Not wearing saris? (pause) We have no problems except this immigration.

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's the main thing.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise we have no problem.

Hari-śauri: By the time they've finished all their investigations, they'll... Eventually they'll have to let us come. At least maybe in Calcutta it will be easier. In Calcutta, with the authorities there, if we get this... If we start building Māyāpura, then they'll be a lot more lenient than they've been before.

Prabhupāda: That is already...

Hari-śauri: Yes. They've taken the best area.

Prabhupāda: I think this leg swelling is gone.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It only came when we were in Iran because of the altitude. Then, as soon as we left, it went away again. That doctor in New York, he said it was because when your blood pressure goes up, then it's difficult for the heart to pump. So then fluid forms in the leg because of the bad blood circulation.

Prabhupāda: That was his diagnosis.

Hari-śauri: Yes. So as soon as we came... Like in New Vrindaban, a little bit high, then again it changes over. But then, as soon as we left, then it stopped again.

Prabhupāda: Then this Mahabaleswar will not be...

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man: But that life itself is temporary and then...

Prabhupāda: No, that is not temporary. That is permanent. That is to stay with God. That is permanent.

Indian man: But you will do so only so long as you are in your body, is it not? After you leave the body then probably you might attain mokṣa for a temporary period.

Prabhupāda: No. That is impersonalism. And those who actually go to Godhead, they remain in their spiritual body.

Indian man: Between meditation and kīrtana, which is the easier and...

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana. Yes. Meditation means you'll think of your business and all sleep, snoring. That is meditation. (laughter) (end)

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Visa department, ten dollars.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Canada you had problem. I remember when you came to Montreal in '68.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you did not know. Canada I had very little problem. U.S., it was always problem. Rather Canada helped me. Canada, I immediately got immigration in Canada. Then I got some standing. That never mind, I have got now immigration in Canada. It will be easier from Canada to go to U.S.A. Then again I tried for U.S.A. And (in Canada) it was obtained within three months and spending only within hundred dollars. And there, in America, they were spending each time $150. The lawyer was taking. He was phoning, "Will you please send $150 for this expense." And how many times he has taken I do not know. They were paying. Rāyarāma was at that time chief man. He immediately... This was going on. Then when I came to Canada... First of all, I made my position secure, that "Let me have Canadian immigration." So Canadian immigration I got very soon. I think within two months. Then I applied for U.S.A. immigration. So U.S. immigration I got within three months. And I paid I think within hundred dollars. So... You know. When I came to Montreal?

Harikeśa: Very easy...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You went for the interview with the U.S. Consulate in Montreal before you got your green card for America.

Prabhupāda: No, no. In Montreal went...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you came from Vancouver... From Seattle.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Berkeley, yes.

Hari-śauri: Everywhere. Sydney has bridges like that. These big towers like Eiffel Tower in Paris, they have big fences along the top so that no one can...

Prabhupāda: This practice is there in Vedic system. Not Vedic system, (indistinct), fall down. There is technical name. Fall down from the mountain. This is easier than other type of suicide. Because you simply once jump, but as soon as you fall, you forget everything. Suicide itself is very bad. This fall down, serotan (?) it is called.

Akṣayānanda: So one question I wanted to ask you in this connection, is that this Vinobha, fasting until death, until cow slaughter is stopped. So if he dies then he is guilty of murder. Is it correct. And if he's a brāhmaṇa, he is guilty of brahma-hatya. So by this fasting he is committing a greater sin than the actual killing of the cows.

Prabhupāda: You are right.

Akṣayānanda: And what is the gain?

Prabhupāda: And what he'll get it? Does he think that by his dying of starvation this cow-killing will be stopped? That is his foolishness.

Akṣayānanda: He will die and it will go on.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is his foolishness.

Akṣayānanda: And he does not know where he will go next.

Room Conversation -- September 30, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: One boy, he was coming to me. In that hundred, about one hundred seventy-first street, all my things were stolen. My tape recorder, typewriter. Fortunately they did not touch my manuscript that I was typing, typing my books. So some money was stolen. Then one boy, he was coming to me, he told me, "Please come to my place." A loft. Bowery Street. I did not know the Bowery Street was not a good quarter. All bums and drunks. When I see there, one Jewish friend, he had electrical shop, he told me, "Swamiji, you have gone to Bowery Street? Oh, it is not your place." I did not know that it is full of drunkards. But they were lying down in front of my door, but they were very respectful. When I'd go, these drunkards comes and they respectfully give me ways. And they would lie down on urine and something like that, on water. Then the boy who took me there... He was Murray. His last title was Murray. And he was taking LSD. So since I went there he did not go to work. Otherwise, he was working and getting daily twenty-five dollars, in some dock he was working. Since I went, he stopped working, and I had to pay 125 dollars for the loft. One lady was the landlord. So I was going on. Some people were coming. That Mukunda began to come, his wife, and another black boy, half-black. Yeargen, Karlapati. I gave him name, Karlapati. He was coming. Then one day that boy Murray, he showed some crazy features. So I thought it is dangerous to live with him. So I approached Mukunda. Mukunda had no place, still I asked him. So I kept my goods at Mukunda's house and went to live with Yeargen. That is another loft. So in this way, with great hardship—sometimes here, sometimes there—in this way, I got two hundred dollars by selling books, and then I asked Mukunda to find out an apartment. He found this apartment, 26 Second Avenue. One storefront down and one living quarters up. So I found it very convenient. Down I would lecture and hold kīrtana. So he charged 75 dollars per month for the apartment, small apartment. I think in a space like this room or less than that, everything is there. There was kitchen, there was shower, and two rooms. I think less than this. Two-thirds of this room and everything there. So I shifted there. And there I remained up to May 1967, I think. Then I got heart attack. Then I went to Stinson Beach. Then I could not improve my health. No, first of all, I went to San Francisco. There also I could not sleep at night. There was throbbing in the heart. Kīrtanānanda, he was serving me. So many difficulties. Then I came back to India in 1967 July. Here also not very much improvement. Then again I went to Los Angeles. There also one symptom developed. Always some sound in the ear, gongongongongon. It was so disturbing. Almost half-mad. And then Los Angeles. Then I think I went to Seattle. In this way, in the beginning there were so many difficulties. Montreal. I took Canadian citizenship. America I could not get. So one gentleman in the immigration department, he said, "Swamiji, you go to Canada and from there you try. It will be easier."

Room Conversation -- December 7, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: For that reason van is required?

Haṁsadūta: No, he can do everything by...

Mahāṁśa: They have extra vans here.

Haṁsadūta: It's not practical. I tell you, these vans... It's not practical to take these vans and drive them around the cities. It's very dangerous. It's not practical. It's easier to go by rickshaw.

Mahāṁśa: What about a small one?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, the small ones. I mean, it's easier to go by rickshaw. It's a fact, you know. We had this experience...

Prabhupāda: No, there is local bus. For one, two men van running is not good.

Mahāṁśa: So one bus party goes immediately to Kakinagar with maybe Ātmavidyā or whoever...

Haṁsadūta: Ātmavidyā.

Mahāṁśa: Ātmavidyā can lead that party. And one party goes to Nagpur as soon as that is fixed. And to fix that program, Vāsughoṣa and Vāsanta Kṛṣṇa can go there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahāṁśa: Then Hyderabad temple, devotees should return to their services in Hyderabad, and Godruma should return to Deity worship. A crew of eight devotees will stay here to do the program over here.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Āsakti. Then they will be attached here. Spiritually if you enlighten them, then they'll be attached. They'll voluntarily say they are accepting here. The chanting, chanting, then... This is the beginning, that "You chant and take prasādam." Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Gradually the heart will be cleansed, and gradually they will be elevated to the platform of āsakti. Then they will not want money, they will not want... Then they will live here, work, just you are doing. That stage, that requires little advancement. Therefore I say this kīrtana program must be continued. Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. As you make the heart cleansed, they become more and more advanced. And then this stage of āsakti, that "This is... We shall live here." Just like we have given up our hearth and home and wife and children. We have given up that attachment. This attachment, practical... That is... You cannot expect immediately. That is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). When one gets better attachment, then they can give up this nasty attachment. Therefore we have to continue this saṅkīrtana. This is the psychology. But there is very great prospect to develop this place, and you have got experience. If you can develop, it will be very nice example. Once successful here, we can introduce this program. And India will be easier because they are by nature inclined to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be easier. The kīrtana must be there. Otherwise why we have to take so much responsibility?

Tejas: Last night it was very hard. Again no one was coming to the kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tejas: These persons who are staying here in the garb of devotees, if they don't come...

Mahāṁśa: Devotees.

Tejas: No one would come. It was a great struggle. Again Jagadīśa and I and Mūrti, we were alone there and we had to go and get people and again they wouldn't come.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That should be stressed. First business is the neighboring village people, they should come, chant and take prasāda. And gradually, when they become interested, then they come, live with us, work with us. In this way they should be induced, bare living and chanting.

Jagadīśa: As in Hyderabad.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then our movement is success. Our only motive is how people become interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have no other motive. No economic problem... Economic problem is... What is economic problem? We produce our own food and cloth, barely, and spiritual life... On the farm it is easier. And if they are dispatched to the city for livelihood, there are big, big roads and big, big cars and big, big anxieties. Then wine, meat, and so on, so on..., suicide, their spiritual life finished. These rascals are protesting. They have no ideas of spiritual life. They think this is life, to be merry, enjoy and drink. "Eat. Drink. Be merry." How they are committing suicide, they do not know. Nature's law is very stringent. They are foolish rascal. There is no education for them. Still, if we try, many men will be saved. So write very elaborately how to do this. Increase. And in your country, we increase this farm project any unlimited number... So much land is lying vacant. We can utilize the wood for constructing residences. And as soon as the jungle is clear, we can utilize it for growing food and keeping cows, as exactly they are doing in New Vrindaban. The cows are very happy. In our original New Vrindaban... What you have named it?

Jagadīśa: The original farm? I think they still call that New Vrindaban.

Prabhupāda: No, New Vrindaban, whole thing. That is called Bahulaban or something like that? So the cows are free moving. They're very happy. You have seen it?

Jagadīśa: The original farm I haven't seen for some time.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (Hindu) But even you get the same thing by (Hindi). So Vaiṣṇava cult is easier than getting the mind blank and then getting all in the... Because here your mind is engaged to Lord Himself. It is... We call as samādhi.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). Just like a man is observing Ekādaśī, fasting. Another, in the hospital, he's also fasting. So these two fastings, they are different.

Dr. Patel: Here fasting of all the senses and applying to God.

Prabhupāda: For satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. And there compulsory fasting, but he has got desire. So paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. When you get better taste, when you stop this nonsense for better taste, that is positive. Artificially, if you do, it will not benefit.

Dr. Patel: Ekādaśī, according to the Purāṇas and the stories, all the eleven senses should be withdrawn from their sense objects...

Prabhupāda: No, Ekādaśī, that is automatically... By Ekādaśī is one of the process for... (Hindi)

Indian (2): (Hindi)

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere.

Rāmeśvara: But they're very eager to have us come to the colleges and high schools...

Prabhupāda: Envious.

Rāmeśvara: ...to speak. It's much easier now to get lecturing engagements than ever before. They are after us to give our lectures.

Prabhupāda: So why not engage Brahmānanda in that business?

Rāmeśvara: I think he could do well.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: In New York or L.A. Wherever you think...

Prabhupāda: Let him go to the colleges accompanied by some other.

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking that especially right now, this time, is the prime time for preaching in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let as many sannyāsīs as possible. Sannyāsī, brahmacārī or gṛhastha, it doesn't matter.

Rāmeśvara: Cannot possibly cover all the territory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There's so much engagement in America right now.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But if I increase price and if you print... If you have got power to print, "All right. Take fifteen coins, er, fifteen rupees." But you print and pay me. But if the gold, the coin, is there, you cannot increase on that.

Hari-śauri: He can't increase the price of the product, and the man who got..., 'cause there's only a certain amount of money there.

Prabhupāda: But I can increase the price provided you pay me. But by printing, it is easier. But if you have to collect coins, that will be difficult, so there will be no artificial increase of...

Hari-śauri: Yes. Coins is a check...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...on charging too much.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. And these rascals, they are artificially printing paper as money. And I am a rascal; I'm demanding more because I have got customer.

Rāmeśvara: The difference between Vedic culture and..., the Kṛṣṇa conscious culture and the modern culture is very, very dramatic, very big difference. So the transforming of society...

Prabhupāda: And besides that, if we concentrate in farm project there will be no need of exchange, because I'll be satisfied with my products. That's all. There is no need of exchange. Whatever I need, I get in my farm.

Rāmeśvara: Weaving, cloth.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Rāmeśvara: This problem practically ruined Australia's economy. Five years ago Australia was a very wealthy country, and then they elected a new government, socialist government, and they began increasing all sorts of benefits, pensions, welfare benefits. And millions of people... Not millions, but many working people stopped working because it was easier just to get the free money. In this way...

Prabhupāda: So you should be very careful. Because you are giving free prasādam, similarly all lazy fellow may not come and take free prasāda. Therefore engagement must be there. Otherwise this lazy fellow will come, sleep and take prasāda.

Gargamuni: In Māyāpura we feed free on Saturday, Sunday. And during the week we feed those who work, those who work, them we feed, those who do service.

Prabhupāda: No, one day, two days, we give prasādam. But regularly we give prasāda and they'll remain lazy.

Rāmeśvara: So in Australia they kicked out the government, completely kicked them out.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Rāmeśvara: And had a new government formed, because they had created a huge debt, federal debt. They were spending much more money than they had, and they were simply increasing the taxes more and more, and the people just kicked them out.

Prabhupāda: It is closed?

Morning Walk -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is also arrangement by Kṛṣṇa. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. "I will arrange soldiers. Russia will arrange for military power, America will arrange for military power, and they'll be engaged in fighting so that the overburdened earth will be released from these, all these demons. And it will pave the way for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And so long they're alive, they'll protest against Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "This is brainwash." So Kṛṣṇa will arrange war between them. Then they'll be finished, and it will be easy for us to make progress. So paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8).

Satsvarūpa: Why will that be favorable for us? You said that will be...

Prabhupāda: Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām, that we are meeting so many obstacles for these rascal demons, and when they will be killed, then our path will be easier. And they will also understand that "This demonic way of life is not good. Let us take to Kṛṣṇa." (break) ...that unnecessarily they fight occasionally between themselves. There is no question of fight. There is a Malthus's theory in economics that when the population is increased, there is... (end)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have received. Got the blue card?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They gave me all kinds of trouble in Washington.

Prabhupāda: What is the reason?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah..., there is no reason. They're just not...

Prabhupāda: Because you were challenging, maybe? But one thing is... I have got experience. Because you took immigration from America, it was so difficult. If you had taken immigration outside USA, then it would have been easier. That was my case. When I was trying to get immigration from America, it was practically...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was easier a few years ago, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Nowadays it is very difficult for anybody.

Prabhupāda: Oh, to get immigration?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: About four or five years ago, since.

Prabhupāda: But when we tried to get immigration from Montreal, I got it within three months. Of course, the Consulate General was a black man, and he appreciated my books very nicely. He immediately he accepted.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is in his hand. Why he should be contaminated?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shouldn't, but somehow our... You once said to me that "You Americans are already business-minded, so..."

Prabhupāda: Well, business-minded is not bad, but contamination is bad.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and do business, what is the harm? Where is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, the trouble is that when you do book distribution, it's easier to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is for that purpose.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But when you sell jewelry, it's harder to remember Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And our... We are not so advanced yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect. Otherwise, if I am attracted, Hare Kṛṣṇa, for my livelihood I can do anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anything, yes. I've seen in India, many of our members, they are able to do their pūjā in the morning with an undisturbed mind and then do business.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All Marwaris do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Be ruthless as anything.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: But just like sometimes for Back to Godhead...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all come to the practical point. How he'll make it more easily understandable. Dharma-kṣetra is a place. Māyāpura is a place. There is...

Rāmeśvara: That cannot be changed.

Prabhupāda: So everything is like that. Why do you endeavor to make it easier?

Rāmeśvara: I think their point is like this, that sometimes in Back to Godhead...

Prabhupāda: Give me some example that "This is difficult, and if you put it in this way it will be easier."

Rāmeśvara: It's for telling a story, whereas in the Bhāgavatam...

Jagadīśa: We're talking about children's books.

Rāmeśvara: Children's books.

Jagadīśa: For the gurukula.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Can you explain that?

Jagadīśa: For example, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we take Bhagavad-gītā...

Gurukṛpā: Eight hundred dollars.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This is American?

Bhagavān: It's French money.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. And they have no doubt about Deity worship. By their culture they are accustomed to worshiping deity forms. So they like very much Deities... Everything they like—kīrtana, Deity worship, prasāda.

Prabhupāda: So revive it.

Pañcadraviḍa: And they are not so intelligent as others.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: That makes it easier for us.

Hṛdayānanda: They do not have so much tendency for speculation like Americans or Europeans. They do not argue very much philosophically. They like our philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā. Practically everyone believes in reincarnation, the soul's changing body. Practically no one will argue these things.

Prabhupāda: Who is the chief guest today?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lady.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: Indira Bhai Bhaga,(?) the sheriff of Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lady sheriff. Strange combination. (end)

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is not a sectarian. It is full of... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So it is practically proved, how they are taking Bhagavad-gītā. So it is science. It is actually life. So why not practice in India? It is not that everyone will be able, but there must be an exemplary sect. People may see that there is ideal. That we can do. India it is easier, because those who are born in India, constitutionally they have got that tendency. Simply we have to channelize. Then everything will be... So there is a good chance. Now the government has changed. They are after something very good, and the direction is there. If you take it seriously, there will be no difficulty.

Mr. Rajda: No, definitely we shall take it up seriously, very seriously. We have no chance in the sense we are ourselves in prison after I met you last. Immediately we were taken in. And this all hullabaloo came about, reactions and all this. It is only now that we get the breathing time.

Prabhupāda: So there is some Kṛṣṇa's purpose that you were elected.

Mr. Rajda: It is through His blessings.

Prabhupāda: Take advantage of His blessings. Do some service. Your full name?

Mr. Rajda: Ratan Singh Rajda.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (pause)

Girirāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think we can go with Mr. Rajda to the pandal, and since you have already met and it is very late...

Prabhupāda: I can go. You want me to go also? You want me to go also?

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Where it will be possible. Where it is, you propose.

Patita-pāvana: I was thinking that at the time of the opening of the temple they come here, or if that's too crowded, they could come to Māyāpura some time, but if you'd like them to come now, I can...

Prabhupāda: Māyāpura is now Maidan. Māyāpura and here, what is the difference?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, here is better. Everyone can come to Bombay much easier. And if you wait until the opening, there's too many other things.

Patita-pāvana: You're right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now is very peaceful for them.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, Mahārāja. So could we fly them here? Could we fly them here?

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Patita-pāvana: Okay. There's two especially, Dr. Arkasomayaji and Agnihotram Rāmānuja Tattvācārya. Spiritually, from what you've taught me, I can understand they have some limitations. Their spiritual understanding is not as high as the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of spiritual understanding.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, but...

Prabhupāda: It requires real scholar.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So?

Mr. Dwivedi: So if I get the letter from you... In fact, I drafted this letter for you also. You can make necessary changes in it, so if I get it, even a tentative day, that will be convenient for me. I'll be able to approach the press people over here, and they will just spread out the news.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "As per your request and as per interview you had with His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda on 23/4/77, His Divine Grace with his entourage will..." (break) ...is a Thursday. Fifth: the program was to be from 5th to 8th, meant Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Now whether these days will be easier for people to attend? Just like your idea is that some people from Gwalior will come and others. My feeling is that they'll have an easier time to come on a Sunday or on a Saturday evening.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But if we arrive on 7th, which is Sunday night, and the program begins on Monday night, then I think it will be all weekdays, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, which is...

Prabhupāda: There is... In the village there is no such consideration.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But his idea was also to invite some of the respectable gentlemen from the neighboring areas, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they may...

Prabhupāda: That is...

Mr. Dwivedi: It could be... When you... If the program should really start on Saturday, er, Sunday...

Kārttikeya: Thursday.

Mr. Dwivedi: Sunday.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Artificial. Cyavanti te. There is one verse. They'll fall down. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord engaged in devotional service of the Lord are called (sic:) bhakta-yogīs. Now, here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed. The process of jñāna-yoga, although ultimately bringing one to the same goal, is very troublesome, whereas the path of bhakti-yoga, the process of being in direct service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is easier and is natural for the embodied soul. The individual soul is embodied since time immemorial. It is very difficult for him to simply theoretically understand that he is not the body. Therefore the bhakti-yogī accepts the Deity of Kṛṣṇa as worshipable because there is some bodily conception fixed in the mind which can thus be applied. Of course, worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His form within the temple is not idol worship. There is evidence in the Vedic literature that worship may be saguṇa or nirguṇa, of the Supreme possessing or not possessing attributes. Worship of the Deity in the temple is saguṇa worship, for the Lord is represented by material qualities. But the form of the Lord, though represented by material qualities such as stone, wood, or oil paint, is not actually material. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Lord. A crude example may be given here. We may find some mail boxes on the street, and if we post our letters in those boxes, they will naturally will go to their destination without difficulty. But any old box or an imitation which we may find somewhere, which is not authorized by the post office, will not do the work. Similarly, God has an authorized representation in the Deity form, which is called arcā-vigraha.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then cheater.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, they accused...

Prabhupāda: That means, of course, indirectly hinted that "Now you are cheating. You are known as shaven-headed. Now you have kept hair. What is the purpose except cheating?"

Hari-śauri: On saṅkīrtana all the distributors wear wigs and like that to..., because it's much easier to distribute, to distribute books.

Prabhupāda: I do not know all this. Formerly, shaven-headed, they used to distribute. Now it is not possible.

Hari-śauri: It's increased since they did plainclothes distribution.

Prabhupāda: Encourages?

Hari-śauri: Yeah. The distribution has increased.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you dress like European, half foreign dress and half hair? Who is that foreign and European and gentleman? What is the use of wig? Keep regular gentleman's hair. There is no need of saffron dress. If by ordinary dress you can sell more book, there is no need of saffron dress. So what is the time now?

Gargamuni: 9:30.

Bhavānanda: Kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...come directly, brāhmaṇas sometimes brahmacārī, gṛhastha. That will impress. (break) ...hodgepodge. Respect is no. Ideals become a leader. He'll do. He'll do. There must be some strong men. Tilaka always must be there. That is our great standard. Kaṇṭhī-mālā. Every fifteen days you should be cleansed. (break) (indistinct) Don't be in all this (indistinct). Go on very nicely. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita Gadādhara Śrīvāsa... (break)

Gargamuni: Well, we only printed two Oriya books. Both were printed in Calcutta so far, because there's one Oriya printer there. Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja is investigating completely the... We went around investigating the presses in Cuttack and Bhuvaneśvara, if we might get some cheaper or easier price. It appears that some things we can do cheaper there, like the inside part, but cover cannot do cheaper there.

Prabhupāda: Cover you can get there, cover.

Gargamuni: In Bombay we might be able to do cover much cheaper and then the inside cheaper in Orissa. That we have...

Prabhupāda: Better quality also.

Gargamuni: It is good quality, similar quality. They agreed, they could get same paper as we had in previous books, but for printing cover that would be very difficult.

Prabhupāda: And tell, we can get from Bombay cover.

Gargamuni: Oh. But I had written you in the report that out of the first twenty thousand we have printed, still 18,500 are remaining.

Prabhupāda: So not selling?

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, you have to arrange like that. They should not live completely independent. That will be future danger.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It has to be a community of devotees.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious ideal gṛhasthas. That we want. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. There are many. I was gṛhastha. There was Deity worship, everything nice. I was publishing Back to Godhead from gṛhastha. So aim was there. But I could not leave family life for some circumstances. That is a different thing. Must be in touch with the devotional service as in the temple. If live nearby temple, it is easier, or in the temple. But aloof, that is dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they live in the temple, then there's the problem of... You know.

Prabhupāda: No. Temple, he can take one room, pay for it. He wants to pay. That is also payment. And further, if he can pay, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America, supposing a householder family pays for a room in our temple building. So they can have their sex life and family life?

Prabhupāda: If they can pay for prasādam also, it is nice. Sex... Husband-wife living, there must be sex, so who can...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So how can that be in the same building as the brahmacārī ashram?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, so many other gṛhastha tenants.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's in, like, Hare Kṛṣṇa Land in Bombay. But supposing in a...

Prabhupāda: That you cannot check. Gṛhastha means they must have sex. But they're living independent, separately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's in Hare Kṛṣṇa Land.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if I feel little strength, I shall go to Hawaii.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Via Fiji? No. Hong Kong, like that. Hong Kong, Tokyo, Hawaii. We have... In Hong Kong and Tokyo we have both places a house if you should desire to go and stop overnight. Both places we have a house in the countryside. It might be easier to stay overnight in a hotel, because it's more centrally located. Because we don't want to take a flight for very long. Hong Kong flight is not bad, I think maybe six, seven hours. Stay overnight. Then again to Tokyo is a short trip. And then Hawaii, another six hours. We can do like that. And Gurukṛpā knows the way very well there. Śrutakīrti will be coming here. I heard that Madhudviṣa is coming. Someone told me. Rāmeśvara sent him a ticket, and he's expected to come here any day. His wife had a child, a son. So he was saying after this child was born he was going to come to see you, and now that has happened. I don't know what his plan is.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a fact. From the point of view of health, Hawaii is the best place in the world. It's paradise. There's nothing that can compare with it. And you'll get juices there. You can live on the fruit juices.

Prabhupāda: And wherever there are my established Deities, that is Vṛndāvana. Anywhere I have got temple, that is Vṛndāvana. So wherever the health will remain very nice...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There we should go. I'll talk further with them.

Room Conversation -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do you think in this stage is it possible?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it would be difficult. Better that we go parikraming around our temple, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandira. That's a little easier. Don't you think that's better? If you get a little stronger, then it may be possible. That will depend on Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa dāsa, we should bring him here. Anyone else you want to see? Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja? Yes. We went to see him just to inquire about the necessary ceremony, and he gave us instruction. I sent Bhakti-caru Mahārāja and Bhakti-prema Mahārāja, and they wrote down everything. But Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja was very concerned. He said he's going to try to come to see you tomorrow. That's all right, isn't it? So Kṛṣṇa dāsa can be called for. Anytime? Okay. He stays at Rādhā-kuṇḍa? We'll inquire... Does he stay at the Gauḍīya Maṭha here?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He does. In Vṛndāvana. Okay.

Prabhupāda: Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja comes; then everything is all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if I call Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja, is there any need for Kṛṣṇa dāsa to come?

Prabhupāda: He can arrange.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is their plea here?

Girirāja: Local people? Well, they will say that there's no reason to transfer the fixed deposits.

Prabhupāda: We have reason.

Girirāja: Yes, we have reason. That is our choice. And the manager in Delhi already said that for our foreign remittances it would be much easier to bring it in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: So I think we could have an account at the main office in Delhi and the money can come first there, and that will make them satisfied. And since we have our office in Delhi, and since Delhi is the main city, it's more convenient for us to have our most things there. And then when we need it in Vṛndāvana it can be brought here. Manager of the Delhi branch asked us if we have a branch in Delhi. So when I said that we do, he said, "Then it will be more convenient for you to deal with the main branch."

Prabhupāda: So do it. Transfer.

Girirāja: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to deliver to the banks?

Girirāja: We have the copy of that letter with their stamp that they received it.

Prabhupāda: So what is that copy? What you have written?

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So certificate must be transferred there.

Girirāja: Yes. We've given them the certificates and the letter, and they've taken the responsibility. They're sending the certificates by registered post to the Vṛndāvana people with their instructions to transfer the money to New Delhi. So those will definitely reach here by Saturday when the assistant general manager comes. And if there's any hesitation, the assistant general manager will take care of it when he's here on Saturday. And I would think that by Monday or Tuesday we could get the certificates changed officially. And then, I think, we should have a least one account in their main branch in New Delhi. It would probably be easier to get inward remittances there. And if we want the interest from the fixed deposits to be kept there, we can have an account there for that. And that will keep us in good contact with the head office.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Hm. (break)

Lokanātha: No books in India have such beautiful illustrations. Everyone appreciates. So far, we had small books, but now we have Bhāgavatam. We have Teachings of Lord Caitanya in Hindi. They are purchasing. And all those who purchase books will definitely read your books. So far, we were giving big books to life members, free, towards their donation, but not many of them were reading. Some of them were reading. But now those who purchase books by paying money, they definitely will read. Because they have a liking for reading, so they will read. And our sales are increasing. Hindi books are being sold more and more.

Prabhupāda: Where is Upendra?

Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Upendra? If I sit down like this, between the two loins, I... It gives me pain.

Upendra: In the lower spine?

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How much they can take?

Jayapatākā: Well, the government calculates that each person gets 80 grams of dalya and 7 grams of oil, and when that's cooked that comes to nearly about four, five hundred grams cooked per head. It's about three, four clay cups.

Kīrtanānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we could prop you up for a few minutes you could clear all that mucus out. It would come out much easier. Can we do that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Come over here, Pisimā.

Upendra: This side.

Prabhupāda: (converses with sister in Bengali) Somebody may be sent to Imlital Math to call her son.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which maṭha, Prabhupāda? Imlital Math. All right. Pradyumna will go. Here, Bhakti-caru is here. Prabhupāda said someone should go to Imlital Math to call Pisimā's son.

Hari-śauri: Can we take the car?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A ricksha.

Prabhupāda: Give them here a small room.

Kīrtanānanda: Where, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Fifteen scientists. There were devotees. Our sannyāsīs, GBC men were there. And I looked at them, and some of them weren't that interested, mainly because it's just... It's just too one-sided, I think. There's not enough action going on to keep their attention. I'm going to speak... I haven't spoken to Svarūpa Dāmodara yet. I'm going to right now. I spoke to Rūpānuga, who was in the back, because he's helping to organize. I think it's very good, because gradually, as we hold more conferences, they'll learn to improve their presentation. This is why Svarūpa Dāmodara wanted to begin in India, so that when he finally got to the West he'd be very strong and it would be very good. Here it's a little easier.

Prabhupāda: So not all the doctors who...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. In other words, there's a big enough program so that... They pick which conference they want to come to. They don't come to every lecture. They may only come to one or two in a day. Today I think there's three. Right? Three lectures? So probably they might attend one or two of them. Of course, some people might attend all of them.

Bhavānanda: Also many more are coming on Sunday. They're coming through the whole conference. Tomorrow more are coming, and Sunday is the biggest day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All in all, though, it's still very impressive and very much encouraging. It's just like everything—it takes practice. This is the first of its kind. So for being the first, it's very nice. And it certainly is well organized. That's a fact. Everything is there—good guesthouse, nice prasādam and qualified speakers. You can see our men are very... They must be presenting thousands of facts. I mean every sentence they are backing up with some quotation or some substantial reference. They are very well prepared for these lectures.

Prabhupāda: But other parties, they are not taking interest.

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Subhasya(?) śīghram. As early as possible.

Girirāja: Yes. So the reason we selected January 8th was because many of the important devotees like Yaśodānandana Swami, they're going out of India for collecting during the (indistinct) time, so they felt that it would be easier for them to be back by January 8th.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It cannot remain vacant. Consult with Jayatīrtha.

Hari-śauri: Jayatīrtha's here.

Prabhupāda: I'm asking Girirāja.

Hari-śauri: Consult with Jayatīrtha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? For the Bombay opening, is it necessary to have those South Indian brāhmaṇas? If Yaśodānandana Mahārāja knows the ceremonies...

Hari-śauri: Which he does very, very well.

Prabhupāda: Then why?

Hari-śauri: He does know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because many of the... Gurukṛpā Mahārāja and others were expressing the feeling that Bombay is not like Vṛndāvana.

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: South Indian brāhmaṇas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Or local brāhmaṇas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Local brāhmaṇas might be a lot easier. Once you get these South Indian brāhmaṇas, then they say there has to be twelve, fourteen, fifteen. But local brāhmaṇas, one or two would come. Probably there are some devotee brāhmaṇas that we can find.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They won't even charge, probably. We can simply give donation to them, but they won't even demand charge. That will be best.

Hari-śauri: The South Indians probably would not agree to one or two.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They'll want fourteen or fifteen.

Hari-śauri: Now they've already got the idea of taking so much money from us. They won't like it if one or two come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They won't agree to it. They'll say it's not possible.

Hari-śauri: It's better to tell them...

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main necessity right now is not just sleep, because you've been sleeping for many days, and that hasn't gotten you better. Sleeping, of course, is easier. When one is laying down, it's a little disturbing to the mind if he cannot sleep all the time, but sleeping is not so necessary as getting some nourishment.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no... Without sleeping, the brain will be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) But you have been sleeping a lot, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were sleeping so much yesterday, and even while you're taking these medicines. In other words, the idea with the allopathic medicine is that it does many good things. So I'm sure Dr. Ghosh could recommend something to help you sleep. (some whispering)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Ghosh might be able to recommend something to help you sleep.

Prabhupāda: And they will help this, this, this...

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So how can I take constantly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It may be bothersome, but it's not so bothersome as being in this ill condition. In order to get better, it seems to me that it's going to be some botheration in order to get better.

Prabhupāda: No, no, bother... What botheration? I cannot take so much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, it would be easier if we only had to give you three or four times in a day, but you take so little at a time...

Prabhupāda: What can I do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can't you...? I mean...

Bhavānanda: They said that one of the symptoms of this infection is—this poisoning—is that you become averse to taking any liquid or any food. Just like you're expressing your aversion that you're not able to. But actually you are able to, but you don't want to. But you have to force yourself in order to get better.

Prabhupāda: Then, then the same problem comes, and they will forcibly...

Bhavānanda: (whispering) Hospital.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Enroll the intelligent men.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the meantime I'm thinking of a small office here in Vṛndāvana, because Vṛndāvana I'll come back now and then, often, and I'd like to have a small place also to do some writing here. It's a nice atmosphere, quiet, and also they have all the facilities here to do some writing. So I just went to buy a..., got this almirah for the office in Mathurā, Dr. Sharma. In about a month we'll go to Bombay temple and try to furnish the Institute offices and also try to make some contact with the scholars. I'm thinking of holding a short conference in Bombay. It will be like here in Vṛndāvana. Bombay's already many scholars, and right in the middle of the city, so it will be a lot easier in Bombay also. Big cities like Delhi, I think can get many scholars. In Vṛndāvana not so many came, but those few came, they were quite nice, and we learned something from this conference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was speaking with Śrīla Prabhupāda the other day that it doesn't seem that Vṛndāvana would be a good place to construct an entire building for Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Why? There is already a building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is already a building here. Judging by the reaction... Of course, this is the first meeting, but...

Prabhupāda: Later on...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Later on it may be done, but for now it's better to concentrate in bigger cities, where we're sure of the response.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's asking for your...

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): If you have power of attorney, that will be done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Through the bank. That's much easier.

Guest (1): Moreover, you can ask much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the post office. So you're going to Mathurā now?

Guest (1): Yes, I am going to Mathurā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you want to go with me to the post office there?

Guest (1): Because I have no time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, time is short. See, Prabhupāda, I was planning to go to the post office.

Guest (1): Or I can let you know everything to him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The main question's just that... And actually there is no need to...

Guest (1): But if you have power of attorney, then everything will be... But you have to collect it from bank. That would be easier.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We will do it through the bank, not directly.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you do that?

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It goes direct?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Delhi-Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Then arrange for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah? It's a lot easier. Plane travel is easier.

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no doubt about that. It's so much easier and so much quicker.

Haṁsadūta: You should ask Prabhupāda about the stretcher. It may be necessary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He knows that it can be done. I've seen people laying out in stretchers. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. People come by and you're laying right on the ground.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, on the ground?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. And they walk right by you, and their feet are right next to your head. It's most dishonorable and disrespectful. You feel... You feel every bit of being a patient.

Haṁsadūta: Don't they have private planes?

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us arrange for you to go immediately. Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was thinking I should send your son a telegram, your former son, Vrindavan, a telegram not to come here. Pisimā's son has sent a telegram telling him to come. I think I'll telegram him that "We are coming there. Don't come to Vṛndāvana," because what's the use of his wasting time coming here? He can come to Māyāpura to see you?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And that will be easier. We can do everything from there. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: No, no, he sees or not sees, does not matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So should I send... I mean right now, there's any need to inform him not to come here?

Prabhupāda: No need.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let him come anyway if he's coming.

Prabhupāda: No, he's traveling. His secretary... The news?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he hasn't given any indication.

Prabhupāda: Tell.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Okay.

Prabhupāda: My sister is going back?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: By Jalan's recommendation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we'll send Smara-hari, and Sarva-bhāvana can go. You know Sarva-bhāvana, Bhakti-caru's friend? Remember that Bengali devotee? He can go with Smara-hari directly and get someone. I think we'll get someone from Calcutta. It is better if we get Calcutta. It'll be easier. But if we don't, then we'll immediately send someone to South. It will only be a matter of a few days. They can be back. Is it all right?

Prabhupāda: Under somebody's recommendation. Just like Jalan people.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the recommendation would be done by that head priest of the temple of Śrī Raṅgam. That's where they would go. They wouldn't just go to look up somebody. They would get the... They would have the...

Prabhupāda: That will be vacant.(?) (very nice?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Better than Jalan. So then let us send him directly from here, Smara-hari, immediately. He can leave today. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we proceed to Māyāpura, and Smara-hari can come back with the medicine to Māyāpura. All right? So we'll make this plan. So then we'll make the arrangements just now, Śrīla Prabhupāda? All right.

Prabhupāda: By plane. Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By plane, yes. Three seats for you. (break) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you continue to try to survive, then Kṛṣṇa will definitely fulfill your desire.

Prabhupāda: In this condition, how I can desire to survive?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have to get some improvement first of all.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There should be some improvement. Then desiring becomes easier. (to Upendra:) No.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra says, "Do you want to first wash your face and teeth before going to the temple?"

Prabhupāda: Wash.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, last week one package was sent here, via Bombay, for Your Divine Grace, of fruit from the palace, from the king's palace in Tehran. And also there was a letter sent which... I don't know... It did not come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, nothing came.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The fruit came. It was the pomegranate and lemon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dayānanda brought it.

Bhavānanda: No, before then. The fruit came.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the letter wished you good health by the royal family.

Prabhupāda: No, preaching also, it is going on. I know that. Where is the cotton sweater?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda.

Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda? If you want, you can lean back. I'm holding the pillows in the back. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...reported.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can take it home with you. Bring it back tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: You purchase few copies more. It is very important.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. This is a photocopy. I can get photocopies made. That will be easier probably than getting back issue. And cheaper too.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants you to read it.

Guest (2): "The nonphysical view on the origin of species." (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Our... Our. O.B.L. Kapoor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Godbrother.

Guest (2): What does he say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says life comes from atoms and molecules, Dr. Kapoor. This is his conclusion after all these years reading Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy. He said like that in the conference.

Guest (2): He said?

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not Punjab National Bank, as they are sending, let them send and ask Overseas five hundred?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because we've already given them a scheme which accounts for everybody. Better to have the whole thing done in a very organized way from one bank, rather than a little here, a little from there. That is simply confusing. Besides that, the... It's just a lot simpler, you know, if we do it this way. That is my opinion, because we've already given a scheme to Indian Overseas. We've put fixed deposits worth a certain amount which bring one thousand rupees interest. So now, if we have to tell them a whole new scheme, then it becomes confusion. It's easier simply to inform the Punjab Bank to discontinue sending the five hundred rupees.

Prabhupāda: And unless they send, Overseas...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. I am not sending a letter to Punjab Bank. The letter is being sent to Girirāja with the clear instruction on cover letter, "Only send this letter to Punjab Bank after you have it confirmed that they have begun to dispatch Rs. 1000 per month." The same way we did for Sulakshman De. When we stopped sending it from here and we began sending from Bombay, we only told them to stop when it had begun to be sent from another bank. In other words, she'll get the money first from Indian Overseas before the other payment's stopped.

Prabhupāda: So how she will get?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rs. 1000 per month.

Prabhupāda: How?

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So she is informed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. All of them are informed. Then I've also sent a letter to the Central Bank of India—again I'm not sending it to Central Bank; I've given it to Girirāja—that when they start to get the 250 rupees a month from Indian Overseas, then we will stop sending the 250 from Central Bank of India. In other words, everything will be done from one bank, right on our land. It's a lot easier to deal with this way. It's much cleaner. Then... Let me see what else. I also sent a letter to M.M. De today. I requested him to please tell me what his bank account number is. I also... He's dealing with most of the business of Panchashil flat. According to Vrindavan-candra, M.M. deals with these matters. Apparently he has a little more legal mind. Probably he's more intelligent. Anyway...

Prabhupāda: No, who?

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So where they will kept?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The interest or the fixed deposits? The fixed deposits are in Delhi, and the interest, for now, for the next few months, I am instructing the bank to continue to transfer to the accounts here in Vṛndāvana that it's always been given to. Then when the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust account is opened, I will issue a fresh instruction to the Parliament Street bank that the interest money should be transferred to that account in Navadvīpa or wherever we open the account. My idea was simply that since the money is to be spent in Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, then when we write checks out, etcetera, from that account, it's much easier to encash it rather than having to go to Delhi for encashment.

Prabhupāda: No, why Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi? Whenever needed...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, you said that the purpose of the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust was for development of Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. That was your original... At least that's what you initially told us.

Prabhupāda: Mm. Which is better? Which is better?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That it should be just for Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi or general?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh. If he agrees to stay a couple more days, we should take advantage of that to give you more time to gain strength. Not that we're overly eager to rush out of here. Our plan is that we want to go where he is, that we want you to remain under his treatment. That is our point. If he was willing...

Prabhupāda: No, no, if after all he wants to go, why not leave earlier?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the whole idea of going is that the medicine is supposed to be having effect. So the longer we have for the medicine to take effect, the stronger you should become. And the stronger you become, the easier will be the journey. It would only be a question of one or two days extra, because in any case he'll want to leave after a few days. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...some rest, backside, I can sit down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With some rest?

Bhavānanda: Something to rest against on his back. Then he can sit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, and in any case we were going to purchase three seats for Your Divine Grace so that you can lie down conveniently in the plane also. No harm in taking... Because one thing you have to remember: the entire journey will take ten hours, so you should conserve your strength by laying down as far as possible. Here you can sit up for two hours because the bed is stationary, and then you can always be resting. But this will be a ten-hour journey. So we should try to take every possible means to allow you to be comfortable the whole way and to relax as much as possible.

Prabhupāda: Give me some rest, backside.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pillows. There's a couple in that room, also in the palanquin.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He said the only reason... He said, "However, if you really feel that you want to go," he says, "I guarantee you that there will be no risk." That he promises. If you want to go, there will not be risk. But from a medical point of view he says, "I advise you to get stronger before making the trip, because it will be easier."

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's our program. We're going to wait here ten days. After seven days, doctor is coming back. Kavirāja is coming back. He'll also by that time have arranged so that when he comes he can stay even up to a week if necessary.

Prabhupāda: And I'll get some strength.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's his point, yes. He feels confident that you'll get strength. Is that all right? I'll go now and... (break)

Prabhupāda: So somebody else come near me. Tamāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: If somebody has come from Delhi, in that car could not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Someone has come from Delhi. The cars came.

Prabhupāda: But... No, no. It could not come in time.

Bhakti-caru: They couldn't come in time.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We will have one devotee get on in Agra to reserve a compartment for us, and then we'll board it here in Mathurā, and it arrives in Delhi at about nine-thirty at night, nine forty-five. So then we'll spend the night in Delhi, resting, and then the following morning we'll take the morning flight to Calcutta and Māyāpura. This means also that you won't have to undergo any strenuous journey to Delhi and then immediately take a flight. The train journey is actually much easier than a car journey, and then we get the whole night to rest, which is also good. So basically it just means we take a plane and then the car ride to Māyāpura.

Prabhupāda: So I simply go by car from here to Mathurā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we take the Taj Express, which is nonstop to Delhi, then stay in the Delhi temple, which is also nice, overnight, and then we proceed on to Calcutta. The next morning we leave on the plane at six-thirty in the morning and we arrive in Calcutta by about eight-thirty, and we should arrive in Māyāpura by noon. Does it sound like a good plan? Now you simply should gain more and more strength, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This time, until the kavirāja comes, from now until then, you should rest as much as possible, take these medicines. I think it's having a positive effect. You mentioned this morning that when you sit up you feel a little stronger now. I think it's good that you're not taxing yourself in any way. That's important. Would you like to do something specific right now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What shall I do? (laughs)

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Make it in a way that Prabhupāda can take it.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, there won't be any solid thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good. I think liquids are easier for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The kavirāja also said that, that for now, liquids are best. That will be nice. Avocados you can take.

Bhakti-caru: Next we'll give you at 12:30, so after two hours we'll give you some barley water, barley milk and some avocado, like yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I go on reading, Śrīla Prabhupāda? He says that book distribution is doubling there also. He says, "On the farm we are doing spring planting, and this year seven acres is being put into crops, an increase over last year, since the population has grown. The farm is now famous throughout the country as..."

Prabhupāda: If you give me some rest, I can sit down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we give Prabhupāda some rest...

Upendra: Some pillows.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Back rest. (break) "...with your permission we would like to come and visit you sometime later this year, as it has now been so long since I have had your personal association." Do you give him permission to come visit you?

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How you can?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, just like when you sit up... It's natural, when someone sits up, it's easier to drink. Laying down, it's more difficult. But still, you require the nourishment. You shouldn't decrease your drinking because you can't sit up. It just means you have to be willing to drink the same amount, but drink it while you're laying down.

Bhavānanda: Which will take some longer time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's a little more difficult, but it's not that you can't drink. It's just that it takes longer. So if that's all right with you, then we won't even request you to sit up when it's time to give you something to drink. Would that be all right? Okay.

Bhakti-caru: Can I give you some barley milk, Śrīla Prabhupāda, now?

Prabhupāda: Now acceptable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. How many cc's is that, Bhakti-caru?

Bhakti-caru: It's about forty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Forty. So give Prabhupāda two more of those. Actually, usually you drink about 200 cc's of barley milk, and you've just drank about 50.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Pañca-draviḍa: I can bring it. He also said Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja, he is in Brazil, but he is returning in a little while.

Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like us to have kīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we've brought some juice, grape juice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can sit you up, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That will make it easier to drink. Bhavānanda Mahārāja and myself are here. We can hold you up for a minute?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Drink for a minute.

Bhavānanda: Only for a minute.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Should we hold you up for a minute?

Prabhupāda: So if I eat here...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Laying down?

Prabhupāda: What is wrong?

Bhavānanda: The only problem is then the tendency is to take less.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if I eat here...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Laying down?

Prabhupāda: What is wrong?

Bhavānanda: The only problem is then the tendency is to take less.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's easier to drink when one sits up. We can hold you up. (harmonium and kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: It is warm now. Hm. (break) What Shastriji said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. I had a nice talk with Shastriji, very detailed talk. He explained that the main... He said we have brought you to him at the very last possible moment. He said had we come six months earlier, so much easier it would have been. He said this time that we have called him just now was just timely that he came back again. He said that the main problem is the kidney. He said the kidney is working, otherwise you could not pass urine. And the medicine which he has given over the past week has had an effect, because the urine is increased. He explains that the whole body, there's very little blood due to not having eaten for so many months, and there's great weakness because of this. He says the muscles are all more or less gone; therefore you have no strength, because the blood is not there. And because you're so weak, he can't give strong medicine, because it will be too strong for you. He has to give it very, very carefully and slowly, in small doses. He says the kidney, urine goes downwards, and blood goes upwards. So the urine is passing. Now he's going to give... He started today already giving medicine which will help to form blood.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do like that. That is very good idea. And different name, you can purchase.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust?

Jayapatākā: Each of the..., like gośāla, handloom, these can be separately formed into societies, which would be easier for bookkeeping and management anyway, and each of those societies can purchase the land on which their handloom or gośāla, whatever is, they can purchase that land in that name.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya bhūmi Trust.

Jayapatākā: Mr. Chowdury tried, but now he's been transferred from the development commissioner. Now he's the transport commissioner. So now all he can do is give us a free... He gives us, tax free, vehicles. But he can't give us the land anymore.

Prabhupāda: Tax free?

Jayapatākā: Our vehicles in Bengal, we don't pay any road tax. He's the transport commissioner, but he's no longer development commissioner. And if the government gives us some land on acquisition, we'll take. But I don't think they'll give a big amount, neither we should wait for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's also utopian.

Jayapatākā: When they see we're doing something, automatically they want to also help.