Expressions researched:
"dormancy"
|"dormant"
|"dormantly"
Interviewer: What are other major beliefs besides love, understanding of Kṛṣṇa, understanding of oneself, which you would like to impart to me?
Prabhupāda: Love is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and love is the basic principle of all our activities. So love is there, dormant, but that love is not being properly utilized. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the movement to revive that original love and the original person with whom that loving transaction can be executed.
Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is composed of four different stages. The first stage is to understand the relationship with Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. Because the conditioned souls at the present moment, they have forgotten self. They have forgotten their relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Actually the relationship is there, eternal, but under the influence of māyā he is thinking that "I am something of this material world," identifying himself with this body. So we have to awake them from that illusory existence, what he is not. The whole mistake of the modern status of life... I don't say modern civilization. This is coming up since the creation of this material world. Sometimes it is in greater degree and sometimes in lesser degree. In Satya-yuga the same condition, but in lesser degree. But in Kali-yuga the condition is in greater degree. So the first business is to awake the conditioned souls from their illusory position, that he is thinking, "I am this body and anything in relationship with this body is very important." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. We speak of illusion, māyā. This is illusion, that "I am this body and anything in relation of this body..." I have got special relationship with certain woman, so I think, "She is my wife. I cannot do without her." Or another woman from whom I have taken birth, "She is my mother." Similarly father, similarly sons. In this way, country, society, at the most, humanity. That's all. But all these things are illusion because they are in bodily relationship. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Those who are passing on on this illusory condition of life, they are compared with the cows and the asses. So our first business is to wake up the general mass of people from this illusory condition of life. So Back to Godhead is specially meant for that purpose. We are pushing our Back to Godhead to the general mass of people to the first condition, first status of enlightenment. And then those who are becoming enlightened, coming forward, "Swamiji, or the society, please make me a member. Please initiate me," he is coming forward, understanding his position. So that is second stage, to train him how to awaken his, that dormant love of God. That is another stage, training. Sambandha abhidheya. Then, when he is actually in love of Godhead, then he can understand the higher status of loving exchange between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and the Vṛndāvana.
Guest (1): "Whatever you do." "Whatever you do." It is not written that you should do the aṣṭāṅga-yoga.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We are discussing this verse. He said that "Anyone who is always think..." Karma-yogi also always thinks of Kṛṣṇa. That's all right. That is not denied. But the highest principle is always keeping Kṛṣṇa within his mind. Premāñjana-cchurita... That is confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). This kind of practice of yoga can be done by an unalloyed devotee. Premāñjana-cchurita, by developing the dormant love of God. That is... That is the highest perfection. And another thing is, you are accepting mind as ātmā, are you not? That's not correct. Mind is not ātmā.
Prabhupāda: That says, or... Everyone says different way. Mammon or dog is expression in the faith. That is the test. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:
Yugāyitaṁ, "Every moment is just like twelve years." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, "crying like torrents of rain." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ. "Oh, I find everything is vacant." Govinda viraheṇa me, "without God, without..." This is an ideal picture. So another test is, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava-viraktir anyatra syāt. If one has become lover of God, naturally he will be detached to material enjoyment. Love of God and love of material world cannot go together. Either this or that. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He never advised to, for economic development, for industrial development, or this and that. So many things. He sacrificed everything for God. That is one test, that "Here is a lover of God." He was punished that "You, you stop this preaching," but he did not. So that is love of God. He sacrificed everything. That is love of God. So the ideal is Lord Jesus Christ, and the follower must be, at least to some extent, to that point. That is test. So we say that you follow any religious path. That doesn't matter. We want to see whether you are lover of God. That is our propaganda. And if one is serious about loving God, it doesn't matter in which way he'll develop that dormant love. It doesn't matter. Just like one, a person wants to be a very nice student of mathematics. It doesn't matter from which university he takes the degree. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He can go. Just like students are coming from one country to another, one country to another. Because his aim is education. So if one is serious about loving God, then it doesn't matter in which way he learns that art. It doesn't matter. He won't discriminate, "Oh, I must learn this art from this university." No. Any university. It doesn't matter. So our principle is that we are teaching love of God. So actually, those who are after God, they are coming. It doesn't matter whether he is in America, in Russia, in Africa, or Canada. It doesn't matter. They are coming. And method is simple. Chant the holy name of God. If you have got any name, you chant. We preach this. We don't say that you chant Kṛṣṇa. If you have got any name, God's name, then chant that.
Sister Mary: Do you believe you (indistinct) people, if they hear it? If they hear this?
Prabhupāda: Yes. As they hear, they became purified, and that dormant consciousness becomes awakened. Yes. Awakened. That chance we are giving. We are chanting and others are hearing. By this process, chanting and hearing, both of us will be benefited, awakening our original God consciousness.
Revatīnandana: At the stage of awakening, when you're waking up, when you're becoming cured of the diseased condition, you sometimes have to restrict your diet. Later on, when you are healthy, you can take all kinds of foodstuffs in the proper way. But while you're getting over a disease you have to restrict your diet. Therefore we hear things that are directly concerned with Kṛṣṇa's name, form, activities. Later on, then we'll be able to see God in a flower, God in everywhere. Otherwise we'll see the flower however we enjoy a flower because we're not at that healthy stage. So therefore there are regulations that we follow for curing the disease. That means for a little while we restrict the diet. Then when we're healthy...
Prabhupāda: Just like these flowers. These flowers the devotees are bringing to their spiritual master, to God. They are not enjoying. Ordinary man, if he gets a flower, he'll put it in the pocket. How... You see? That is the difference of God consciousness. The flower is the same, but use is different.
Prabhupāda: A particular jīva soul was in that body. Then it is also proved that every jīva soul is individual. Although they are living combinedly, everything is individual.
Revatīnandana: Well, doesn't... That's all right then. Now the...
Prabhupāda: But that one jīva soul was prominent. He was visible. Others were in dormant condition. This proves that every individual soul is separate from the other; still, they can remain together. Just like the sunshine, they create... a small shining particles, combined together, molecules. So everything is combined spirit particles.
Haṁsadūta: Everything that we see around us, everything.
Prabhupāda: Everything. Sarvam idam khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. But when they are covered, that is called material exis...
Śyāmasundara: Each jīva is...
Prabhupāda: Just as sunshine is not covered, it is called cloudy. But this light, whatever light you are seeing, that is also sunshine. That is not different from the sunshine. And above the cloud, there is bright. So matter means when it is covered by something, it is matter. That covering is unconsciousness. That covering is also created of the sunshine, by the same energy. And then, by the same energy it is dissipated also. So the conclusion is living being, when it is covered by ignorance, that is material.
Haṁsadūta: He says, "Even though You are present before me just like a child, I cannot understand." So people they think they understand it only when God is nowhere near.
Prabhupāda: No, this is the position. Even Brahmā cannot understand; what we can understand? So without bothering ourself... Jñāne prayāsam. Jñāne prayāsam means endeavor to understand. Namanta, give up this practice. Jñāne prayāsam udapasya namanta eva. Just become submissive. Submissive means that "We cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply let us serve." That's all. And develop your dormant love. That is perfection.
Haṁsadūta: Is that why Kṛṣṇa also says to Arjuna, He says, "What need is there of all this..."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Haṁsadūta: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa also, He says to Arjuna, "What need is there of all this knowledge? Just know that with one spark of My splendor I am pervading everything."
Prabhupāda: That's all. How He is doing that, it is very difficult to know. (pause) Jñāne prayāsam udapasya namanta eva san-mukharitaṁ bhavadīya-vārtāṁ jīvanti. (break) ...in temple you'll have to sleep. Yes. So also keep it in mind that unless there are four, five devotees experienced, we should not center, open a center. Because alone he becomes polluted. Without any association, he thinks otherwise and becomes fallen down. That which has happened to Kṛṣṇa dāsa. When he was alone, he could not manage. There was debts and he became disgusted. You see.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Yes. (laughter). Yes. So, what is our business with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? (child makes noise) (aside) This child will disturb. Our, this movement is that we are trying to love Kṛṣṇa. If I love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then naturally I will be obedient to the laws of God. It is not? Just like these, my students, when, say four or five years ago, I came here, I had no student. I was loitering in the street. Nobody was caring for me. Now I have got hundreds and thousands of student. They can do whatever I order. So I did not pay them anything, neither I brought any money from India, but they are executing my order simply out of love. Is it not a fact? Because they have developed a love for me... The reason may be whatever it may be, but unless they have developed love for me, how they can execute my order without any personal profit? Therefore this is first thing required, that religion means to abide by the orders of God. Simple thing. And this obedience to the laws of God will be automatically performed if everyone loves his dormant love for God. We have taken this science. We are teaching everyone how to love God. If he thinks that "I have learned to love God through some particular religion," we have no objection. Either he is Christian or Hindu or Muslim or whatever he may be, if by executing the religious principles which he is professing he has developed his love of God, then we have nothing to preach to him. The result is there. But because we don't find the love of God is there, that we are putting a simple formula that "Here is the way." By utilizing or by accepting that way he will very quickly love God. So if we agree, if we are convinced that to love God is religion, and that is our main business in the human form of life, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the genuine scientific movement. Everyone should take it.
Prabhupāda: Your real dimension is mentioned there that you are a spiritual atom. The measurement is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. That is the seed, or basic principle. Now, on that small particle of spirit soul we have developed this body. We have got human bodies, other has got the elephant body, other has got the mountainous body, but this is external. The real seed is that one ten-thousandth part of the hair. Similarly, as you have developed this material body under different consciousness, similarly when we give up the material connection we shall develop our spiritual body, and in that spiritual body we shall be able to enter the kingdom of God, back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position. This body you have to give up, today or tomorrow or one hundred years after. You have to give it up. The Bhagavad-gītā says after giving up this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body he does not accept any more material body. Then what happens to him? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), he comes to Me. So "He comes to Me" means just like in your country one who comes to you becomes citizen. He must have some particular qualities or conditions fulfilled, then he will be accepted as citizen or immigrant. Similarly, if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must develop our dormant spiritual qualities, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the training period for going back to home, back to Godhead. So that after giving up this body or after this time's death, others who are dying they do not know what next life they are getting. They, although they are proud of education, but they do not discuss what is the constitutional position of the soul, how he is transferring from one body to another, how it is to be done. This science is unknown to the modern education. Is it not? They do not know. They simply speculate. That is the defect of modern educational system, and actually everyone is seeking for spiritual emancipation. Therefore in your country, in spite of so many big, big universities, you are producing hippies, hopeless population. Am I saying right or not? Your are university teacher. I have seen in so many universities.
Prabhupāda: So Lord Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there. That is Lord Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Lord Kṛṣṇa and His instruction. He is absolute. Just like these boys. They are serving Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa is not present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present but you do not know how He is present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present by His name, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa and the person Kṛṣṇa is not different. That you do not know. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa is gone, but Kṛṣṇa is present by His instruction, by His name, by His form, by His quality, by His pastime, because He is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is never absent. Simply we have to see, we have to make our eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always present. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Those who are saintly person, they are seeing twenty-four hours, every minute, Kṛṣṇa. Hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. How? Premāñjana-cchurita. When there is love of Kṛṣṇa. Just like ordinarily, if you love somebody, you will find him everywhere. So you have to develop your love for Kṛṣṇa; then Kṛṣṇa will be seen. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Just like sun. You cannot see sun at night, but when sun becomes revealed before you you can see sun and yourself and the whole world. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa will reveal, being pleased with your service and love, you will see Kṛṣṇa, you will see yourself, you will see the whole world. So simply you have to... Just like one man is suffering from cataract. So by surgical operation make the eyes free from the cataract disease—he will see everything. Similarly, the cataract of your present eyes, material eyes, can be, I mean to say, relieved by Kṛṣṇa prema. Then you will see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, premā pum-artho mahān. If anything has to be achieved within this world, that is Kṛṣṇa prema. That we should engage our life, how to achieve Kṛṣṇa prema. But we are not interested in Kṛṣṇa prema. So that is illusion. Human life is meant for achieving that stage, Kṛṣṇa prema, love of Kṛṣṇa. Then life is successful.
That is wanted. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for invoking the dormant love for Kṛṣṇa that is there in everyone. Just like four or five years ago these boys, they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. And now their countrymen is surprised: "How these boys are after Kṛṣṇa, mad after Kṛṣṇa?" That means love of Kṛṣṇa was there. It has simply be invoked.
Prabhupāda: They are not my books. I am simply translating. They are written by Vyāsadeva, the original Vedic scholar. So there are now many secular states. Our Vedic idea of secular state is the government must be responsible of proper execution of religious system. It doesn't matter whether one is Hindu or one is Christian, one is Mohammedan or Buddhist. It doesn't matter. But it is a government duty to see that one who is professing as Hindu whether he's executing the Hindu principles of religion properly. That is government. Just like government gives license to so many businesses. One man is selling liquor, wine, government issues license. So the government inspector, excise inspector, goes and sees that the man is doing business according to the license. Government should not be callous that "You may go on with your so-called religion, we don't care for it." No. That is not government. Government's duty is to see, just like for example, Christians, their commandment, first commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." It is the government's duty to see that anyone who is professing Christian, "Why he's killing?" Immediately he should be punished that "You are professing as Christian and you are killing." This is government. Similarly, Buddhist religion also, ahiṁsā. Ahiṁsā paramaṁ buddhiḥ. The government duty should see. And the ultimate test of first-class religion is: the follower has developed love of God. If he does not know anything about God, or if he has not developed love of God, then he has simply wasted time. It may be any religion. That is ultimate test because religion means, it has got relationship with God. Otherwise what is the meaning of religion? Any religion, it doesn't matter. The process should be quest of God. What is God? What is Absolute Truth? Wherefrom everything has come? What is we... what we are? What is our relationship with God? This science. Religion means this science. In the Vedānta-sūtra, it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, what is the difference between cats and dogs and human beings? If simply eating, sleeping, and sex life, and defend is the business of human life, then these things are there in the animal life also. They also eat. They also sleep. They have also sex life, and they also defend according to their capacity. We defend with atomic bomb and they defend their own nails and claws. The different spirit is there. So that is not the aim of human life. The aim of human life—this opportunity's given by nature to have a human form of life—is to understand God. Nobody can deny—unless he is a crazy fellow—the existence of God. That is not possible. There must be. I may know it or not know it, it doesn't matter. Therefore religion means to understand God and to awaken your dormant love for God. This is religion. Now there may be difference of process, according to country, time, people. Therefore, it is the duty of the government, it is the duty of the government... Hare Kṛṣṇa (someone enters). Formerly the kings, they were regularly supervising that their citizens were properly executing religious culture. That was government's duty. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So now government is callous about religion. I'm very glad to know that your government has left some department to supervise.
Prabhupāda: They call it mystic.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The same?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mystic yogic power means the same acintya-śakti, dormant potency which is within everyone. That can be awakened. The same example, as I have given, that everyone has got the potency to swim, but it has to be practiced. I cannot swim. For me, if one is swimming, it is inconceivable power. But I have got also that power. By practice, it has to be awakened.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is a yogic process.
Prabhupāda: That is yogic process. Real yogic process is to find out Paramātmā, but side by side many other dormant powers become awakened. Another example, that tree is producing chemicals. So every living entity has got dormant potencies, more or less. So God, Kṛṣṇa, is the supreme living entity; therefore He has the full potency. God means full, complete. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The best living entity, that is God. (pause) Is there any difficulty to understand the best living entity?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The best living entity?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like milk. Milk looks white, but it is just water. They call it, it's a colloidal suspension of proteins, these caseins, in water. So similarly, this fog is just a colloidal suspension of water in the air.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you create some fire. It will be immediately driven away. Water can be driven away by fire. So you create. That you cannot. You just shot one bomb. There will be some heat, and all the mist will go away. Do it.
Karandhara: That would blow up the planet. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Water can be counteracted by fire or air. Everyone knows it. So you do it, suspension. So this is for you mystic power. You can talk all nonsense, but you cannot act against it. Therefore it is mystic power. So similarly, there are so many things. That is acintya-śakti. You cannot think of even. By nature's way, immediately the sun rises—no more mist. All finished. A little temperature increase of the sun, all finished. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. This example is given in the Bhāgavata. Nīhāra, this is called nīhāra. Just like nīhāra is immediately dissipated by bhāskara, by the sun, similarly, if one can awaken his dormant devotion, then all finished, all his reaction of sinful activities, finished. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. You just create... You calculate sun is composition of this chemical, that chemical. Just create one sun and throw it. Simply theoretical future, bluff and juggling of words, that's not good.
David Lawrence: No.
Prabhupāda: If it, had it been an artificial, they would not have been so serious, but it is a dormant consciousness. I have simply awakened. I have awakened. Otherwise... That is the statement in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Some way or other, it is now snuffed out. They have forgotten. But if an opportunity is given, then it can be awakened. So this movement is giving opportunity to arouse that dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness which is already there in everyone. So if you take that process and allow this Kṛṣṇa consciousness among the students, oh, it will be great service to the humanity. As a teacher, you will give the greatest service.
David Lawrence: They offer nothing, is it, in the material world.
Prabhupāda: So you give... Yes. That is the... The only difference is that in human form of life you can awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the animal form... Here we are sitting with all human form of life, gentlemen, civilized men. I cannot call cats and dogs and sit here, and to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Therefore this opportunity should be given. This opportunity should be given. And especially, you are English nation, recognized, great nation, respectful, you are respected... Especially in India, we have got very good respect for English nation. We had connection for so many years. And the politicians, they spoiled. Otherwise, the, I, we liked the British Empire, means unity of the human being all over the world. That can be revived again. That can be revived again. If you come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, your Queen comes to that,... There is process. There is process. You can revive your British Empire. It is not story. If you people take little advice from me, I can help you. Yes. You are intelligent nation. So kindly do this service to the students and awaken their dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be a great service. And we are meant for helping you all. So you can inquire. You are at liberty to come at any time and inquire.
Cardinal Danielou: Not in the...
Prabhupāda: Maybe very rarely, but the human being... (aside:) Where is the water?
Yogeśvara: She said she was coming with it...
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. The human being has got the prerogative to awaken his dormant God consciousness.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So the best service to humanity is to awaken their God consciousness.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, it is true, it is true.
Prabhupāda: Best service.
Cardinal Danielou: It is the necessity of internal conversion, yes, for human, human souls to return to God. But do you think that this, the personality of human soul is a personality permanent? That is, we remain always distinct, not separate from God, but distinct of God?
Prabhupāda: Distinct.
Prabhupāda: Give him prasāda.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, we're preparing prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Purīs.
Haṁsadūta: Purīs and sweet rice.
Prabhupāda: So we are simply trying to revive people's dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So every sane man, every good government, everyone should come forward to help this movement. It is not a personal affair. We are not presenting that "I am avatāra, I am God." We are presenting science, philosophy. You see? Why we are taking so much trouble to write so many books? If we... We want to convince people through science, philosophy, logic, religious principle, by practical behavior. All these boys are being trained up not to have any illicit sex, not to eat meat, and not to take any intoxication up to tea, coffee, cigarette and not to indulge in gambling. They're doing that. So we are making men of character, men of religion, men of philosophy. Why people should not cooperate with us? We are not presenting any blind, so-called religious faith. No. That is not our business. Our business is śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. You understand little Bengali? You understand Hindi.
Prof. Gombrich: No, I haven't, I'm afraid. No. And do you think that the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is very different from the message of realizing God which is promulgated in other religions, for instance the Śaiva religion or...?
Prabhupāda: No I don't think so. Any religion, you follow nicely. Just Christian religion, there is God consciousness. So actually it is not this religion or that religion. People have given up religion. All over the world they have no more interest in religion. And especially I see that in your London that so many churches are vacant. Nobody's going there. So thing is that there is no more regular teaching of religious system. It has become a profession like. Neither the teachers are serious, nor the students are serious. So our principle is that not this religion or that religion. Whichever religion you may like, you can follow, but we want to see whether you are God conscious. If you are not God conscious, then we take it simply useless waste of time, these so-called religions. Śrama eva hi kevalam. You understand Sanskrit.
Śrama eva hi kevalam: "Simply waste of time, laboring." If one does not understand what is God, even after executing very rigorously about his own religious system, if he does not awaken his dormant God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he has simply wasted time.
Prabhupāda: They do not know so many things. What they will understand? Because they do not understand, therefore it has to be rejected. They are fools. What do they understand? Superfluous. Simply they see something outward. Just like they see the tree, but what do they understand about the seed? What do they understand? The tree is coming from the seed, but what do they understand about the seed? They see the tree, that's all. Like a child sees the tree and "Oh, it is a big tree." But intelligent man sees the seed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also see that the original seed the embryo is, remains dormant.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. How it is made? That they do not know, how subtle things are being done... (aside) We can go this way. That is their ignorance. They do not know subtle things. Simply gross manifestation attracts their attention. That's all. Jaḍā-dṛṣṭi. It is called jaḍā-dṛṣṭi, material vision. No sukhā-dṛṣṭi. Every, every field, they have no finer introspection. Simply gross. They deal with gross things. Just like the same example: Here is a tree, but it is a fact, this tree has grown from a small seed. So what do they know about the seed, how it is manufactured, how it has got the potency of bringing out such a big tree? Not only that, in that seed there will be millions of fruits, and each fruit there will be millions of seeds, and each seed contains again millions of trees. Where is your science? Where is that potency?
Prabhupāda: That you will learn. That is stated in the śāstra. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). When you develop love for God, then you can that spiritual eyes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva. He sees everywhere, always. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilo... That you have to develop that position. Immediately you cannot do that. Yes, immediately you have to see physically. Then gradually, when by offering service, you develop your dormant love for God, then you can see spiritual. It is not immediately or for everyone. So you have to wait for tha position.
Guest (6): Consciousness movement in the West-like you said, the Western people are fed up with materialism. Is it that they are fed up only with materialism or with...?
Prabhupāda: Well, people, people have become godless everywhere. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu. That is a general disease. So actually, everyone is concerned now with material comforts. But these material comforts mean wine and women, that's all. Substance of material comforts. So that they have enjoyed enough. The facility of enjoying woman and getting money, there is no limit. There is no limit. Anyone, the money is thrown in the street. You can simply collect. And similarly, women are available. So actually, they do not get any happiness by these material elements. They are seeking after something, that's a fact.
Nitāi: Page 324.
Translation: The material miseries of the living entity, which are superfluous to him, can be directly mitigated by the linking process of devotional service. But the mass of people do not know this, and therefore the learned Vyāsadeva compiled this Vedic literature, which is in relation to the Supreme Truth.
Purport: Śrīla Vyāsadeva saw the all-perfect Personality of Godhead. This statement suggests that the complete unit of the Personality of Godhead includes His parts and parcels also. He saw, therefore, His different energies, namely the internal energy, the marginal energy and the external energy. He also saw His different plenary portions and parts of the plenary portions, namely His different incarnations also, and he specifically observed the unwanted miseries of the conditioned souls, who are bewildered by the external energy. And at last he saw the remedial measure for the conditioned souls, namely, the process of devotional service. It is a great transcendental science and begins with the process of hearing and chanting the name, fame, glory, etc., of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Revival of the dormant affection or love of Godhead does not depend on the mechanical system of hearing and chanting, but it solely and wholly depends on the causeless mercy of the Lord. When the Lord is fully satisfied with the sincere efforts of the devotee, He may endow him with His loving transcendental service. But even with the prescribed forms of hearing and chanting, there is at once mitigation of the superfluous and unwanted miseries of material existence. Such mitigation of material affection does not wait for development of transcendental knowledge. Rather, knowledge is dependent on devotional service for the ultimate realization of the Supreme Truth.
Dhanañjaya: What was that last sentence?
Prabhupāda: In Africa and Australia, they are killing the animals and exporting. So in other countries they are getting meat to eat, and so they are very free to produce bolts and nuts by industry. They don't require to produce food because from Africa and Australia they are getting meat. This is going on. Instead of producing food, people are interested in producing motor car bolts and nuts. So why there should not be food scarcity? After all, you require to eat. But instead of starting industries, why don't you produce foodstuff? What is this civilization? Produce foodstuff. The animals will be nicely fed, and the men will be nicely fed.
Cardinal Pignedoli: You were.
Prabhupāda: No, not on the street. Some of the boys, they came to my hotel. So so far I saw, the people, they are very nice. They are very nice, but the government supresses their sentiments. Everyone has got religious sentiments. The people is as good as in other places. I don't find any difference. It is not that the whole Russia is atheist. It is not that. They are as others. They are like that. And our philosophy is that everyone is God conscious; simply it is being suppressed, either by the so-called leaders or by the influence of external energy, which is called māyā. We have got a verse in this Caitanya-caritāmṛta where it is said that nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. It is not an artificial thing. To make one God conscious is not artificial. God consciousness is there, even in the life of aborigines, most crude people. It has to be awakened by education. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. One has to be educated. And he should be given chance to hear about God. And then, as soon as he becomes purified in his consciousness, he accepts and begins to love God. So it is not an artificial thing. Either in Russia or any place, any human being, he has got dormant love for God. It has to be awakened by processes. Therefore I began: That process which quickly awakens that God consciousness and engages him in the service of the Lord, that is first-class religious system. Paro dharmaḥ. Paraḥ means first-class. But a simply sentiment will not help. Therefore religion must be based on philosophy, and my spiritual master used to say this, that "Philosophy without religion is mental speculation, and religion without philosophy is sentimental." They should be combined. Philosophy and religion must be... Or religion must be based on philosophy. Then it is perfect. We cannot separate these two things. Simple philosophical speculation will not help, and simple sentiments, rituals, formalities, will not also. They should be combined. So this combination is here in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Are you welcome in Japan? People are interested, eh?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Recently some of our preachers, they have collected fifty-thousand dollars from the Japanese people. They wanted to contribute me for my Vṛndāvana temple, but the Japanese government will not allow to let the money go out. He wrote me. And I have seen personally, when I went... I went to Japan three, four times. These Japanese boys and girls, they are as good as these American, Europeans boys. And that is my practical... Or they, they are my students. They offer me respect so much. The Japanese boys, without being my students, they offer the same respect. So I thought that Japan is very good. Everywhere. That I told you already, that the love of Godhead is dormant in everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. It is the process to awaken that love of Godhead: That is first-class religion. The matter is already there. Simply we have to awaken. And now, that process which awakens very quickly, that is first-class religion. That is the first... And besides that, really understanding of God is very rarely found. Find out this verse,
"Out of many millions of persons," manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu, "somebody is trying to make his life perfect." Others, they are simply trying to enjoy life like animals. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, and yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "And out of many millions of such persons who are trying to make his life perfect, hardly one can understand what is God." This is the statement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in one of the Vedic literature, that:
The inherent principle is eternally a fact, his obedience to God. But artificially he has covered it, artificially. The God consciousness is there in everyone, but by so-called material advancement, he has forgotten. He has his obedience to God, natural. Even the aborigines in the forest, they also submit to the manifestation of God's different energies. As soon as there is some lightning and there is thunderbolt, they immediately... They offer obeisances. As soon as they see a big sea, ocean, they offer obeisances. So that is inherent. But due to the material association it is covered. And therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says,
jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava,
The more we advance in so-called material, what is called, amenities, we forget God. We forget God. So the inherent, dormant, propensity is to become servant of God, but material association is checking him. Therefore if he... Just like now psychological treatment—a crazy fellow, he goes to the psychiatrist and he talks with him. Gradually, talking, talking, he cures him—similarly, these men who have forgotten or these living entity, if they associate with devotees and they constantly talk and hear about God, then again he revives his God consciousness. Yes. So we are, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or any other... We open many centers, and we talk, we sell our literature. His lordship has seen our books? You can show some of the books.
Bishop Kelly: Oh, I have, I have. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So by association with devotee, by hearing, hearing, śravaṇādi... Śravaṇādi means hearing... Beginning is hearing. If you patiently hear, then that dormant God consciousness again becomes revived. Yes. Then his life is successful.
Bishop Kelly: What would you hold about the, what you might term the revelation of God, the ongoing communication of God in revealing Himself and in further making known His will for man at different stages of his own life, say, in his spiritual life, and, of course, in different stages of history and in different cultures?
Prabhupāda: That is recommended. You see. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi (BG 10.10). Because the God consciousness is there, God is there, now God is prepared to give Him instruction always. He is giving you instruction. Now, how that dormant consciousness can be revived, that is stated. You read it.
Bishop Kelly: I beg your pardon, your grace. I didn't quite catch what you said.
Prabhupāda: I said that if one engages himself in the service of the Lord some way or other, then the revelation, the original dormant God consciousness and love of God, becomes revived. Exactly in the same way: the psychiatrists, they treat the crazy fellow by talking, talking, talking some way. So if we talk of Kṛṣṇa, then the original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is revived. That is also stated. You find out in the Bhāgavata, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi... (SB 1.2.17). Yes, purport. So this is very important thing. Therefore we have published so many books about Kṛṣṇa—to hear. Hearing, hearing, hearing, and... Just like man is sleeping. You talk loudly, and he will be awakened. Yes. That's it.
Prabhupāda: America may say, but if it was given up, then how you are getting now?
Brahmānanda: Now Americans are taking it up.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How it is given up?
Lakṣmī-nārāyaṇa: They will say that it became dormant. Not that many people liked it anymore so...
Prabhupāda: Not dormant. It is coming. It is coming. We have not lost it. It may be that a few people know it, but it is not lost. It is not that missing bone; it is not like that.
Devotee: They say like in Chicago they're so prosperous, but they don't worship Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Devotee: Here in Chicago, there's so many big buildings and there's so much money.
Prabhupāda: So building, what you will do with building? You have to leave the building and go to hell. What you are doing for that? So long, fifty years, you can lick up the building. Then, after all, you will be thrown into the hell. Then what you are going to do about that? If you cannot stay in the building, then what is the use of constructing building? Suppose you construct one building here and the policeman..., "No, you cannot stay here." Still you construct building?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there in everyone's core of heart, but due to one's material conditional life, he has forgotten it. So this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra means to revive that consciousness. It is already there. Just like a few days ago these American, European boys and girls, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. But now you have seen yesterday how their whole, that procession, throughout the whole procession, how they were chanting and dancing in ecstasy. So do you think that is artificial? No. Artificially nobody can chant and dance for hours together. That means the awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It was there; by the bona fide process, it is now awakened. That is explained,
The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is dormant in everyone's heart. So when he comes in contact with devotees, that is awakened. Just like to be attracted by a young girl or young boy, it is there in the child. That small child, it is there. And when he will be young, then it will be awakened. It is not that artificial something. So in association it is awakened. The potency is there already, but in good association, by hearing about Kṛṣṇa one is awakened to the status of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that every Indian should do like that. I am only one Indian. If I can do as, according to your estimate, so much, so if every Indian does like that.
Member: Unless he has been directed by God. He must be ...
Prabhupāda: No, God is directing. This is the direction of God.
Member: Only through you they will get that. Only people like you can relate with... It is dormant. The soul is there, and it is in a dormant stage. Unless it is kindled, it cannot have light. People like you can kindle them. And it is really our fortune that we are having Swamiji with us. There was some ṛṣi. Even our Samanja Ācārya(?) or his guru, they were not able to carry this outside India. But you are able to, with all your... I think you are... Is it not said that you are an incarnation of God or you are deputy of God, is it?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Don't say like that.
Member: You are deputy of God, and He is making you true. Swamiji will be staying here for another two months?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I wish to.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It looks different, completely... It looks different. There is no similarity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no similarity. Why the child... There was no mustaches. Why you have mustaches? How you can say "The same body"? You shall have to give your own argument. Child had no mustaches; you have got now mustaches. How you can say the same body? The child had no sex desire; now you have got sex desire.
Brahmānanda: They would say all these things are dormant within the child's body, and now they are coming out.
Prabhupāda: That we also say, but that body not... That "dormant" means dormant in the soul, not in the body. That is the knowledge. Dormant it is, but dormant in the soul, not in the body.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have to admit that it's a different body because if the body is simply made of food and they are eating so much and evacuating so much, then it has to be a different body.
Prabhupāda: No, it is different body, undoubtedly. If they foolishly argue, that is different thing. Therefore rascal. Their argument has no value. How you can be the same body? So many changes. The body is changed. (to Indian man:) What is that? It was not garam?
Indian man (1): No, garam not.
Prabhupāda: So this argument, how he can refute, that he has died twenty-two years?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, he can also say that he has lived twenty-two years, because he has no perception of any life before that time. He can't remember living before.
Brahmānanda: "Before, I was not alive. Now I am alive, so I have lived for twenty-two years. Before, I was dead; I was not alive. Now I am alive, so I've been alive for twenty-two years."
Prabhupāda: So before, you were not alive. Then how your life came?
Hṛdayānanda: Is that actually God created everything, but after creation God is no lon...
Prabhupāda: No, then... No, that's all right, "God created everything." That means acceptance of God. Then we come to the science of God, what is God.
Hṛdayānanda: Well, God created, but now God is...
Prabhupāda: Don't imagine. I am asking what is the current theory.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, that God is... God now is in a dormant condition.
Harikeśa: God is dead.
Prabhupāda: God is dead. After creating, He is dead.
Harikeśa: He used Himself up.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hṛdayānanda: No, but, no, they say... No, that's not what they say. They say that God created, and now God is in a dormant condition.
Prabhupāda: Whatever condition, there is God. That you have to accept.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now, what is that God?
Hṛdayānanda: Well, God does not directly take part in the material creation. He simply created...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but He creates by His energy. Just like I am creating this institution, but I am not doing directly, but my men or my assistants, they are doing it. (sound like conch) What is this sound?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Intercom.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...accepted, now He created and that... What is that next? Explain.
Hṛdayānanda: Now God is dormant, in a dormant condition.
Prabhupāda: What is that dormant?
Hṛdayānanda: He has no more activity. He simply created, and now He has no more activity.
Prabhupāda: Well, "no more activities," that's all right, but He is active. Suppose I am walking. I may not walk half an hour. That means I have got the capacity of walking. That you cannot say, that my walk... Because I have now stopped walking, you cannot say that I cannot walk. Is another nonsense. How you can say "dormant"? He is active.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dormant implies He was active.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Was active, He is active, but you, you rascal, you cannot see. You cannot say, "Once He was active. Now He is no more active. He has finished His activity." That you cannot say. Dormant? What do you mean by dormant? Huh? Dormant means potential. He can act. And He is acting. That acting you have to learn, how He is acting. He appears to be not acting, but He is acting. That is knowledge. Just like airplane is running. A intelligent man knows that "The pilot is there. He is acting. Therefore it is running." And a foolish man will say, "The airplane is going automatically." That is the question of observation. A foolish boy... I have given this example many times, that I was thinking that in the fan there is a ghost. But the idea is, there must be somebody. Although I was a child... I could not explain how the fan is running in my childhood. I was thinking there must be some ghost. And in the gramophone box I was thinking there must be one man within this box. So this is foolish thinking, but I was convinced that without somebody, it cannot sing or it cannot run. Even one is very innocent child, he can think like that. So whole thing is going on, prakṛti, the activities of material nature... Just like there was cloud and rain. Now it is not raining. So there is activity already. It is being managed. So you cannot say that God is dormant. He is acting because His creation is acting, and God says that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "Under My direction the nature is working." How you can say He is dormant? The nature is working?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a religious fanatic. I told him, he's a religious fanatic.
Prabhupāda: Not fanatic. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have no explanation, so you're simply giving it the name God.
Prabhupāda: No, why not explanation? Why not explanation, that "Nature is working"? He said that "God is dormant. God created," and he accepted. And "God is dormant. He is not doing anything." But no, that's not the fact. The nature's work is going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nature is going on.
Prabhupāda: So the nature is directed by God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Why not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not. It's moving of its own accord.
Prabhupāda: Then he is another rascal. Nature cannot work automatically. Just like mother. Nature-mother. The mother cannot produce child without father.
Interviewer: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, consciousness is already there.
Rāmeśvara: He meant the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is that...
Prabhupāda: That is original consciousness.
Rāmeśvara: So that is within us.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Rāmeśvara: And it needs to be brought out.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Interviewer: And how is that brought out?
Prabhupāda: That is brought out by this process. You have to go under some process. Just like a man can be made unconscious and again conscious under some process. If you... What is called?
Rāmeśvara: Anesthesia?
Prabhupāda: Anesthetic, he becomes unconscious. Then, another process, we can bring him to conscious.
| Page Title: | Dormant (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 15 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=34, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 34 |