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Doctor (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: Nectar of Devotion I have read. That's wonderfully done.

Prabhupāda: You like it?

Dr. Kapoor: It's nectar, really.

Prabhupāda: Doctor Kapoor, what is your age now? I think you are a little younger than me.

Dr. Kapoor: I think I am (indistinct) younger than you.

Prabhupāda: Ah, what is your age now?

Dr. Kapoor: I am sixty-two, now, sixty-three, sixty-three.

Prabhupāda: Ten years. Not ten years, nine years.

Dr. Kapoor: Nine years.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because when you were a student, at that time we were family man.

Dr. Kapoor: Yes, when I had just finished my university career, I think...

Prabhupāda: In Allahabad, when you were living at that...

Dr. Kapoor: Gauḍīya Maṭha.

Prabhupāda: Gauḍīya Maṭha, I think you were student then.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Cinmaya...

Dr. Patel: ...becomes ill and he has got to come to a doctor sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Body, that... If...

Dr. Patel: But that, Kṛṣṇa's body is not that body.

Prabhupāda: Not only, not only guru. Anyone who is spiritually advanced, he has no more material body.

Dr. Patel: That's... From higher stand point of view.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you, if the guru is in the lower standard, then how he becomes guru?

Dr. Patel: No, that guru who knows that he has no real material body, he's beyond the body consciousness, that is right.

Prabhupāda: No, no! Even the material body's there...

Dr. Patel: Guru thinks so, but what about this...

Prabhupāda: Even the material body is there, still he's to be taken as spiritual. That is the philosophy. The example is given: just like you have got an iron stick. You put it in the fire, and it becomes warm. And when it is red-hot, it is no more iron stick. It is fire. Do you accept this?

Dr. Patel: I accept it.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is the use of your serving poor? Are you serving the poor? Why do you talk like that?

Guest (5): I want to ask you.

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, are you serving the poor?

Guest (5): Yes, sir. I am a doctor. And we see only poverty. So I want to ask.

Prabhupāda: Then, then every... So every patient is a poor, and every doctor is puṇyavān.

Dr. Patel: Ha, every doctor is a fool. Like me.

Guest (5): No, I want to ask you. Swamiji...

Dr. Patel: Swami, Swami answered.

Prabhupāda: This has become a slogan, "Serving the poor." Where is the śāstra? Where Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Serving the poor?"

Guest (5): It doesn't say. No, I know. But...

Prabhupāda: You are yourself poor. How you can serve? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, serving nobody. Now, Swami Nikhilananda of Ramakrishna Mission... Just hear, doctor. Ah. Swami Nikhilananda of Ramakrishna Mission, when I went to America, I met him. He said that "The Americans are asking that 'You take money from us for serving the poor.' But when we go to India, we simply see poor men are lying on the footpath. So what you are doing with this money?" You see? This is a plea for collection of money, "to serve the poor." What... (break) Yes. I know in America there are so many foundations. You see? And there are so many cheats also. They found a society. And the managers of the foundations, they have got plea, and they get out all the money. I have seen. Who was that? That Mr. Bogus? No, Bogart. Bogart. I used to call him "Mr. Bogus." (laughter)

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yena, this word means person. Yena. This is person.

Dr. Patel: Both imperson and person. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya siddhiṁ vindati mānavaḥ. Now that girl, the doctor lady, you choked the other day in the morning, she, poor thing wanted that "I am practicing the medicine and serving people," and you call her a fool, "You are a damn fool." Well, she's doing the...

Prabhupāda: She is not serving. She's serving her... Everyone is serving money, money.

Dr. Patel: Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya siddhiṁ vindati...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. This serving, everyone is serving. Unless he pays, no service. That is not service.

Guest (1): If we expect payment...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Karma, karmaṇā, by your work. Just like you are working as a medical practitioner. So you earn lakhs of rupees. Give to Kṛṣṇa. That is tam abhyarcya. Then you become perfect. That is also confirmed in Bhāgavata. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ (SB 1.2.13). We have already explained that our karma, according to varṇa and āśrama... Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Everyone is working according to varṇa and āśrama. So svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Anyone who is serving according to his dharma, an engineer, a doctor, or somebody else, according to his occupational duty he is serving. But he has to see, svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate. It is Gītā. And it is said, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhiḥ, perfection. What is that? Hari-toṣaṇam. We have to see whether Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. So you earn lakhs of rupees and give it to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa said yat karoṣi, "Never mind what you are doing," kuruṣva tad mad arpaṇam, "give Me it." (laughter) And "No, no, no, sir. I'm serving You, but the money is in my pocket."

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pāṇḍu-putrāṇāṁ jaysam pakṣe janārdana. Pāṇḍu-putra, the Pāṇḍavas, are glorified because on their side, Kṛṣṇa is there. Therefore, victory for them. One very big doctor of Allahabad, my old friend, Dr. G. Bose, he is also D.T.M., M.A.B. He wants to join this movement.

Dr. Patel: Haribol. There is one doctor, he'll look to the health and hygiene of the inmates.

Prabhupāda: Why not yourself?

Dr. Patel: ...on that point I'm going to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: These rascals, asuras, they do not know what is the goal of life. But in which way we should direct? These rascals, they do not know. Still, they become public leaders, asuras. Na viduḥ. How to dissuade people to stop this? Just like we are doing: no illicit sex. Nivṛtti. Nivṛtti. No illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat-eating. This is nivṛtti. And pravṛtti, take to Kṛṣṇa. This is pravṛtti, nivṛtti. But the rascal demons, leaders, they do not know these things. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na viduḥ asura-jana (BG 16.7). They do not know it. Still, they become leaders. They do not know in which way people should be directed, and still they claim to be public leaders.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You know, there was a big doctor in Calcutta, (indistinct) Sen. You have heard his name? He will die of thirstiness, still would not drink outside water. Would come home, offer to the Deity, and then drink. I know that (indistinct) Sen.

Indian man (3): But he is such a...

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14)—Kṛṣṇa. But why one should chant the other name? Kṛṣṇa says satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not any other name.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa... Doctor Shah. Mister Shah? Kṛṣṇa says...

Dr. Shah: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: ...that evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Unless one comes to the paramparā system, he cannot understand the knowledge. But these rascals, without in the paramparā system, they interpret.

Dr. Shah: According to you, how many paramparās are there?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Shah: How many paramparās are there?

Prabhupāda: No, no, how many, don't take many. Take one.

Dr. Shah: One, yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, Kṛṣṇa is speaking to Arjuna. That is a fact.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why they should comment? Poke them in the... When he's rascal and does not know anything about Kṛṣṇa. Why should you write comment on Bhagavad-gītā? Let him do his own business. Why you should come here? That is our protest.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Everyone has got a right to comment.

Prabhupāda: Just like he's a medical man. He's doing something. If a storekeeper comes... "Doctor Shah," (Hindi) What is this nonsense? What you are? You cannot say... He's a lawyer. If I say, "Mister Lawyer, why don't you accept this law?" will you accept?

Chandobhai: All the great ācāryas have commented it.

Prabhupāda: Yes!

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (6): Yeah, I was disturbed in the early morning. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to have surgical operation, if the doctor says, "No, no, no, I have taken to non-violence. I cannot touch with knife," that is foolishness. (break) ...you, one must know. That, you take instruction from Kṛṣṇa; then you'll know when one thing should be used and one thing not be used.

Dr. Patel: And that is necessity... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...create violence out of your own wish, that is not God's wish. Just like in modern days they are declaring war whimsically, by the political ambition. That is not God's wish. That is not God's wish.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel:

na ca māṁ tāni karmāṇi
nibadhnanti dhanañjaya
udāsīna-vad āsīnam
asaktaṁ teṣu karmasu

Prabhupāda: Yes. The same thing, that just like a judge orders, "This man should be hanged," but the judge is not affected by such thing. He's not affected. Just like you surgical, you are going on surgical operation. You are not affected. The man is crying, "Oh, here, doctor, you are killing me, killing me, killing me." But the killing or not killing, doctor Saheb is not in con-(indistinct).

Dr. Patel:

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
hetunānena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
(BG 9.10)

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... These rascal atheist class, they think that prakṛti is creating. Prakṛti is creating, that the ocean is created by prakṛti. But why the ocean does not come here? Fifty, sixty yards? Because there is order that "You cannot come here." This big ocean, immediately, in one minute, it can swallow up whole Bombay. Therefore it is controlled. It is controlled by the Supreme. Mayādhyakṣeṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It may be whatever it may be. Now, just see that how much country conscious he was. He wants prophylactic brush. Not only that. I will tell you another incident. I was manufacturing one medicine, jagon(?) poultice. That is like anti-(?). So doctors were prescribing in Allahabad. So there was one big doctor, Dr. R.N. Banerjee Rai Baba. So sometimes I was seeing the doctors. So when I went there, "Oh, it is very difficult to prescribe country medicine." "Why?" "Oh, you will be surprised. I prescribed this jagon poultice in the Nehru family." He was physician. "And Motilal Nehru said, 'Oh, doctor, excuse me. In the matter of medicine, you don't prescribe country medicine.' " Just see. Believed in him.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The doctors also will enter. (laughter) Not only the patient, but the doctors also. Don't think that doctors will be excused. (laughter) No, no. That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: Shall I read further?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break)

Dr. Patel: Just like...

Prabhupāda: He was thinking, "Oh, why shall I kill?"

Dr. Patel: "If I don't fight, they will live."

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is already planned. So even if you don't kill, it is there already.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Satsvarūpa: They want to be cheated?

Prabhupāda: No, they don't want to be cheated, but... Of course, they are cheated. What is the psychology of accepting imitation false god? I am asking you. You, doctor sir.

Dr. Patel: I have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. Why you should imitate?

Dr. Patel: He has got the answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes, answer.

Yaśomatīnandana: Because they are less intelligent.

Dr. Patel: He is more intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has accepted Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is more intelligent than these rascals. Yes. He has accepted the original. He is not going to accept any false imitation. Therefore he is intelligent, more intelligent.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then heart beating will go on, either you apply machine or no machine. Heart beating. But when the heart stops, no machine can revive it. So what is the use of machine? But by nature's way when the heart beating will stop, no machine can help. That is not possible.

Girirāja: So the doctors face a dilemma, that they keep the heart going by the machine, but they don't know whether the patient is actually living or dead. So they are afraid to stop the machine. They don't know how to decide when to stop the machine.

Prabhupāda: But when they stop it...?

Girirāja: Then the patient is dead. (laughter)

Yaśomatīnandana: That is the modern science, so imperfect. They don't even know whether a person is live or dead.

Prabhupāda: What do they know? They know something, but everyone knows. Even the birds and beasts, they also know something.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Mahāṁsa: We cannot actually conceive of all these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The conclusion is that Kṛṣṇa being the reservoir of all pleasure, so the pleasure of fighting is there. So He can exhibit anywhere. (break) That is the understanding of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we limit Kṛṣṇa like one of us, or little bigger than me, then I become doctor frog. (aside:) Don't come near. Why don't you tell them? (break)

Girirāja: "...Vasudeva attempted to take His son from the delivery room, and exactly at that time, a daughter was born of Nanda and Yaśodā. She was Yogamāyā, the internal potency of the Lord. By the influence of His internal potency, Yogamāyā, all the residents of Kaṁsa's palace, especially the doorkeepers, were overwhelmed with deep sleep and all the palace doors opened although they were barred and shackled with iron chains. The night was very dark, but as soon as Vasudeva took Kṛṣṇa on His lap and went out, he could see everything just as in the sunlight." (break)

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) ...he worships like anything. Then he... We have an assembly, and they passed by majority vote that I should refrain from coming here, but I somehow or other came.

Prabhupāda: But I saw and offer my obeisances to your motorcar. (laughter) I was thinking that "Dr. Patel's representative, the car is here."

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (5): According to the work it is known.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even a man is born in the brāhmaṇa family, but if he is working as something else, so he should be... Practically also... Just like somebody is paṇḍita, brāhmaṇa, but if he is doing the work of an engineer or doctor, he is addressed as "Doctor Saheb." That is practical. "Doctor Saheb. Engineer Saheb." Not "Paṇḍitji."

Indian man (5): By birth he may be brāhmaṇa like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. By birth, there is no brāhmaṇa. By saṁskāra. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is...

Indian man (4): Birthright is not brāhmaṇa. No birthright.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Indian man (4): Provided he has got the particular saṁskāra. (Hindi) That is the beginning of it.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is the beginning of saṁskāra. There is regular ceremony.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Indian Man (2): Arjuna also says that he cannot see God. He saw the light only.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was speaking with Kṛṣṇa. Still, he said that "I cannot see You." That is a fact. (break) Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). If you have got qualified eyes, you can see Kṛṣṇa always, twenty-four hours. So we have to qualify, purify. Sarvopādhi-vinir... You are seeing. You are trying to see God as American, as Indian, as this and that. With that eyes you cannot see. When you are neither American nor Indian nor brāhmaṇa nor śūdra, you are pure spirit, then you can see. They want to remain with this designation-body and want to see God. That is not possible. To enter fire you have to become fire. Otherwise, it will be not possible to enter fire. So without Brahman realization, you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). (break) ...is the same. Quality, it is same. It is salt, salty. And the whole ocean is also salty. That is tat tvam asi. "You are also salty," if I say. If the drop of the water, I say that "This is also salty," that is tat tvam asi. Not that he has become the whole sea. This is rascaldom. (break) ...God create another ocean in the sky. Then you are God. When there is some tooth pain, you go to the doctor, and you are God. Just see how much nonsense they are. As soon as there is tooth pain, "Oh, oh. Just now I am not God, I am patient." So these things are going on. I have seen so many gods. I have seen one that Dr. Misra. When he had a toothache, "Ohhh, oh." You see? (break) ...cheap philosophy, by misunderstanding the whole world has become atheists, all rascals. Atheist means rascal number one, mūḍhāḥ, āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. As soon as one becomes atheist, he is rascal number one.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: She became widow at the age of eighteen years. So my father engaged her in worshiping Deity. My father was worshiping, and she was the assistant. Of course, she had two children by that time. Yes, go on. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is all attractive. So immediately they attracted the other cows, although they were not actual mother. (break) ...doctor in Calcutta, young man, he married the daughter of a very rich man. So his father-in-law gave him a motorcar, so he advised... He was a businessman. He advised that "Even if you have no practice, you simply ride on this car and go around."

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: A kṣatriya, a brāhmaṇa. Just like if you want to learn music, you have to go to a musician.

Pañcadraviḍa: So where will we get kṣatriyas and...?

Prabhupāda: That is in the śāstra. Anyone can learn it. Just like if you want to be doctor, so you must have this qualification. Similarly, these things are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣatriya means if there is fight, he must go forward first of all, risking his life. That is kṣatriya.

Pañcadraviḍa: So we have men who could teach this? Do we have men...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Because he knows how to teach. That's all.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: So they were all engineers.

Prabhupāda: No, no, engineer. Engineer are also demons, but he is no longer demon. Now doctors are demon. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...land only for this beach.

Dr. Patel: But you are going away.

Prabhupāda: No, I am... (Dr. Patel laughs) I am here. (break) Very soon. (break) Living entities are there in the sand. How do they say there is no life in the moon? I cannot understand. What they are eating within the sand?

Dr. Patel: Not that, but our definition of life is, I mean, not really complete. It is not complete. We mean... Life means anything which, I mean, which breathes, which beats. That is all humbug. Everything is life, to tell the truth.

Prabhupāda: No, even distinction, life and matter, here is sand. How these animals are living within the sand? And not only that. Now it is... Because it is wet, they are living. When it is very scorchy hot, then also living.

Dr. Patel: That is māyā. This is all māyā.

Prabhupāda: Living entity can exist in any condition. In the sun globe there is life.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Bombay also is hell. Bombay, nobody inhabited this island till the Britishers came, and they created this spot. The importance of Bombay backward... Otherwise so far hell is concerned they are both place. Best is Bangalore in India. Best.

Prabhupāda: (break) Doctor can manage securing medicine, distributing. That is another thing.

Indian Devotee (5): Actually, from his talk I could understand that he actually doesn't want to do much. He said he will not be able to come and examine the patients even.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Indian Devotee (5): He says, "You try to find some other doctor." He told me, "You find out names and addresses of the local doctors, and we'll pick one of them."

Prabhupāda: No, no, we cannot divert our attention. It is not possible. Say, "No." You can say that "We consulted Prabhupāda. He said, 'At the present moment, unless our building is there, we cannot accept any other extra business.' " Tell him like that.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, this is not.

Bhāgavata: We do all the work, and he gets advertised as a great charitable doctor.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Bhāgavata: That he has opened the clinic.

Prabhupāda: Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. We are not all these false things. Doctor Ghosh is also after daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. (break) We will collect medicine. Our... We shall pay for the expenditure. Our men will be engaged for bandaging. (laughs) Nonsense.

Bhāgavata: And the preaching stops.

Prabhupāda: Ah. They cannot understand what is the meaning of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are such dull headed men. They have no brain to understand. They are coming down again. Just like the dog's tail. Know, dog's tail. You may, however grease it... (laughs) They are hearing about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The aim is the body, the dog's tail. They are hearing daily about Kṛṣṇa na..., but they cannot understand. It is very difficult. These karmīs... Now they say... Because we are reading this Bhāgavatam, now gradually they dispersed. Gradually they dispersed. They are not interested. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And if you talk politics and all nonsense, oh, they will gather.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Satsvarūpa: If we can get enough to eat and sex, we will be happy.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And then they become impotent and go to the doctor, "Give me sex medicine." You see? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The same thing. Not at home sex, but "Let us go to the prostitute, go to the naked dance." They have no other ideas. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). These class of men cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all, one must be in knowledge that "I am not anything of this material world. I am spirit soul. My happiness is in the spiritual world." Then he can be.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: My organization is in fact concerned with the well being of all four classes. It is not only with the laboring man. It's also primarily with the producers, but also with the managers, leaders, and to a certain extent also with the protective classes in that we are interested in the well-being of policemen, hospital personnel, doctors, nurses, that kind of social security workers, and that kind of person. We are interested in the intelligentsia in that they are professional workers, often independent, whose professional rights and obligations need to be safeguarded and codified. That's a standard laid down in the form of international labor standards. One of our activities, not perhaps now the most important, but one of the first.

Prabhupāda: No. My point was, point is that... Because one is fourth-class, therefore we are not interested in that—it is not my point. My point is that there are four classes of men: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. And our point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for taking care of all classes of men. Although by natural division there are four classes of men, first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, but the example we generally give, just like in your body there are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division and the leg division, but all of them meant for keeping the body fit. And body is meant for giving supply to everyone of them. But if you comparatively make division, the head comes the first division, the arms comes the second division, the belly comes the third division, and the legs comes the fourth division. So we should organize in such a way that all the classes of men in the society be happy, not that we simply take care of the head. The same example: In your body it is not your business just simply take care of the head or the legs. No. All these different divisions of your body, you take care. That is healthy body. When your brain is working nicely, when your arms are working nicely, your abdomen is working nicely and legs are working nicely, then you are fit. If you simply take care of the legs, not of the brain, that is not a good healthy body.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: That's UNESCO. That I can't answer upon very fully. But I would suggest that they are, in that way UNESCO, United Nations through UNESCO, is very active in promoting culture and in stimulating philosophical thought. We are, on our side are more concerned with the place of the worker in society, and our organization is conceived along a peculiar model which we call the tripartite system. The members of our organization are states, not governments, but states, and each state is represented in our conference by two government delegates, one delegate of the employers and one delegate of the workers. And so the decisions that are reached, the same pattern goes down through the other organs of the organization. But the decisions that are reached in the International Labor Organization are thus not decisions which are only those of the government or the governing classes. They are decisions which represent a very broad consensus of opinions between both the employers and the workers as well as governments. And to that extent we do hope to find resolutions that have a very wide basis of ratification. After they are agreed upon by these three different elements of society represented in our International Labor Conference and in the other organs of the International Labor Organization, we endeavor to get the decisions ratified by national governments. Nevertheless the people who are here go back to their countries and try and get the decisions ratified so that a measure of uniformity in social justice and in the treatment of labor and protection of labor and in social security and in occupational safety and health and of all these things which are bound up with work and also payments to professional workers such as architects, nurses, doctors, people who work on a quite independent basis without being employed. It's not necessarily employees. Veterinarians and so on. The conditions of employment...

Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conception, the higher class of men, first-class, second class, third class, they are never to be employed. They remain free. Only the fourth class men, they are employed.

C. Hennis: Well the third-class would be what kind of typical worker?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Third-class men means making provision for the society for eating. That is... It is stated, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi means agriculture, and go-rakṣya means cow protection, and vāṇijyam means trade. That means the third-class men, they would give protection to the cows, produce enough food grains, and if there is excess, then it can be traded. So this is the business of the third-class men.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: It's difficult to be a professor or a doctor unless you may have some type of qualification.

Yogeśvara: Well, he says it's difficult to be any kind of doctor or professor unless you are properly qualified.

Prabhupāda: No, from this point of... He is right. Unless he has got the medical degrees, unless he is educated... We also say that thing, that unless one is sufficiently educated in medical science or legal science, he cannot be said a medical man or a legal man.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: You see, my organization represents all the states in the world practically, all the states of any importance in the world, with the exception of a few like Monaco and San Marino and Andorra and that kind of place. And through my organization, the states of the world, and that doesn't only mean governments, express their concern and endeavor to improve the lot of all of the people who are active in some way in the economy and in modern society, these may be professional workers. We don't deal with medical doctors because that is the problems of the World Health Organization. We don't deal with teachers and university professors and philosophers and so on because that is more the problem of UNESCO, and they deal with it very thoroughly. We don't deal by any means fully with the actual production of foodstuffs. This is the FAO, the Food and Agriculture Organization who does it. What we do do, we look after the rewards the people get for the work they do in the ordinary way of life as employees in offices, in banks, in commerce, in shops, trading. We are very interested in developing rural areas and in improving the lot of the rural worker so that the rural worker will no longer be under a disadvantage by comparison with the workers in the towns, so that they will have proper facilities, proper leisure and proper opportunities for self-improvement.

Prabhupāda: I may say in this connection, in America, the laborer class is very highly paid. Anyone, any labor class man can earn $25, $50, daily, very easily. But because there is no direction of the brain, these labor class of men—I have seen—they—especially these Negroes—51%, they are drunkards. They spend their money in drinking. They do not know how to utilize the money. Because the brain is not giving direction. Or they have no brain. "I have got so money. How I shall utilize it?" As soon as he gets money, he use it, he uses it for drinking. You may think that you are sufficiently paying to the labor class, worker class, but because he is not guided by brain, he is misspending the money.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says, "In certain circumstances."

Prabhupāda: In certain circumstances, but if you do not know how to... Suppose a man is diseased and you think... The doctor says that he should not eat anything. But if you think that "Let me give some food. The doctor is very cruel. He is not giving food," is it, that, helping or fully pushing him towards death? First of all you must know how to help. If I do not know—I help in the opposite way—that is not helping. That is degrading. These are all manufactured things. They are not... Helping means, real helping is, that a man or anyone... Everyone is suffering for want of knowledge. So if you can give knowledge, that is real help.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: And that is already there. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The, the, in Vedic astrology, jāta-karma, they will say that "This child is a śūdra, this child is a brāhmaṇa, this child is a kṣatriya." By the birth, by the constellation of the stars, it will be done. It is already being done. And in the medical laboratory, the blood has been tested, brāhmaṇa, śūdra, vaiśya, there is different blood. Yes. The blood infusion. So if the, a different blood is infused, it does not act. So one doctor, in India, he was permanently keeping different bloods for different persons. So there is some meaning in the caste system. But that is not... In a brāhmaṇa family, a śūdra may also take birth. Śūdra blood. So to keep the blood brahminical, therefore the reformatory system is there, garbhādhāna-saṁskāra and all the saṁskāras. Before birth, they keep, to keep the blood brahminical, there is ceremony.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: This school is for all ages or just for children?

Prabhupāda: No, all ages. Children means they learn Sanskrit and English. And they are taught our books. You show our books, all books. These are... Other books. We have got eighty books like this. So if a student reads all these eighty books, he becomes Doctor of Philosophy. Ph.D. Beginning from A,B,C,D, up to Ph.D., all, everything is there. (French)

Pṛthu-putra: He asks if you wrote all these books.

Yogeśvara: Did you write all these books?

Prabhupāda: That you can say. What can I...?

Yogeśvara: Yes, our spiritual master has translated these books. (French) He asks, "These are the ancient Sanskrit books then?"

Bhagavān: Prabhupāda has not just translated. He's given commentary, purport.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can show the nature, translation, word-meaning. (French) Then I combine with reference to the modern society, how they can be applicable to the modern life.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: May I ask a question? It is quite clear for our rational mind, I can understand there is a dead body, and there must be something in him, enough to make it alive. Now, the conclusion, I say there are two things, that my question was how he becomes aware in himself as an experience, not as conclusion, because I realize that on the inner way it becomes important more and more to feel deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper realities. That's why in my little work I make a distinction between the body you have and the body you are. The English language says, talks about "somebody" and "something." "Somebody" means a person. So the body you are. It's the whole of the gestures wherein you express and you present and you miss or you realize your real self. So the body you are. Usually if you go to a doctor he sees only the body you have. He tackles it like a machine. If somebody with shoulders like this, he says, "Well, you must make exercises." If somebody comes to me with shoulders like this, I say, "The body you are, you have no confidence in life. So get an attitude of confidence." So he gets to know the body he is, not only the body he has, which doesn't at all touch at your wisdom.

Prabhupāda: No, as I say, the active principle, I am also the active principle. As I say, the dead body and the living body, difference is, when the active principle is not there, it is dead body. Similarly, I am also the active principle. So 'ham, so 'ham: "I am the same active principle." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this material body." That is self-realization. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati: (BG 18.54) "When one is self-realized, then he is jolly." Prasannātmā. He is never morose. He is jolly. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati: "He has no lamentation, no hankering." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "He is equal to everyone, man, animal and everything." And mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām: (BG 18.54) "Then devotional life begins." So without self-realization, there is no question of devotional life. Or those who are engaged in devotional service, they are all... Just like these boys, my students, they are trained up how to be always in devotional service. So one who is engaged in devotional service, he is supposed to be already self-realized. Because he has understood "what I am," yes. And then he sticks to devotional service. Otherwise, he cannot. If one thinks, "I am this body," then he cannot be engaged in devotional service, or he cannot stick. He knows that "I am part and parcel of God. So my duty is to serve God." This is self-realization. And then he engages himself in devotional service.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: There is a change today. The other day, a little while ago, I gave a conference. There were about a thousand doctors, physical medical doctors and psychotherapists assembled, and I told them, "Today be careful. There are two sufferings in the world. The one suffering is suffering because of lack of being efficient in the world. And they are going to look for the medical doctor or the psychotherapist in order to repair them, to repair their machine in order to be efficient. But there is another suffering, the suffering of not being one with the divine self in ourselves. And this is something quite different. Then you doctors have to be quiet and to discover in yourself something like a guru who answers this question which has nothing to do with efficiency in the world." Oh, they were very, you see, became nervous about this question.

Prabhupāda: Now, the efficiency, just like medical treatment. If you know what is the end... Āyurvedic treatment it is called nidāna, nidāna, or diagnosis. First of all, before treating a patient you first of all diagnose what is the disease. Then you can give the proper medicine. But these people do not know how to diagnose. The diagnosis is that they must realize the Supreme. That is the disease. Because they have forgotten the Supreme, they are suffering. The symptoms are different. But they are treating only for the symptoms, not for the root cause. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to treat the patient from the root cause. They have forgotten God. Let them remember God.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

German devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these gentlemen are professors from the Theological Philosophical University. And this is Doctor Zara (?). He is the leader for the society of yoga and integral philosophical studies in Germany.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very fortunate to see so many big men at a time. So we were also talking to this doctor about this philosophy, how human civilization should be conducted. I was explaining to Professor that at the present moment, not at the present moment, always in this material world, we do not know what is the goal of life. We have got different philosophies, different mode of life, because we do not know what is the goal of life. If the goal of life is... (break) ...then everything is solved. Now it is very good fortune that you are all present. What is the goal of life? That is my submission. Human life is there, human intelligence is there. So what is the goal of life to achieve? The goal of life cannot be different. That is one. That is, we take from Vedic literature, this goal of life is to understand what is God. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). (aside:) That is one. You serve it out. So we are missing the point, that we do not know what is the goal of life. Different persons, different philosophers, they have got different proposition of the goal of life. Similarly, different politician also. But we think the goal of life is one, to understand God. Then everything is solved. Self-realization. (pause) And we are writing all these books. These books will be finished in eighty volumes. And already we have published fourteen volumes only. And small books also, many, about two dozen. But our only writing is the goal of life, Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Their sensation is very covered. Just like you cut the nails. There is no sensation. And does it mean there is no sensation-therefore there is no life? Unless there is life, how it is growing? It is growing; therefore you cut. But when you cut, there is no sensation. But there is life. Otherwise, how it is growing? The same nail, when you cut, you throw it on the ground. It will not grow. These are practical example. Just like little child. Their sensation is less. I know. My eldest daughter, when she was six months old, there was some boil. So the doctor operated. She simply, "Uh, uh," no cried. I have seen it. She was not crying. But the same boil, when a fully developed man, he will feel more sensation. So according to the body, the sensations are different. The same things, means mind, intelligence and ego, according to the body, they act differently. But the mind, intelligence and ego are there. The dog is coming, and if I say, "Hut!", unless it has got intelligence, how it goes away the other way? There is intelligence. There is no language, but because he has got intelligence, he can immediately understand I don't want him to come here. So how you can say there is no intelligence? The rascals say "The animals have no intelligence; therefore they have no soul." If one has no intelligence, there is no soul. That is admitted. But here is intelligence. How can you deny, "There is no soul"? The animals, the cows, when they are taken to the slaughterhouse, why they cry? Because he has intelligence that "Now I am going to be killed." And these rascals say there is no soul. And still, they are religious priests. Such fools and rascals are made religious fools, priests. No common sense. And they also get degree, Doctor of Divinity, DD. (break) ...Greek scholar, here in this Germany or in nearby?

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Reverend Powell: Well, they're all very good, aren't they? (laughs) And so in reading about Lord Kṛṣṇa, I take it that He performed many miracles of healing. I'm very interested in spiritual healing because in my ministry here in Australia I've been twenty-nine years in the Harley Streets, the streets of doctors. I'm now in Colin (?) Street. I was in McQuarrie Street in Sydney. And in Sydney I had forty-one medical men on, and women, mainly men on my role of members, and we work very closely. This very day I've been working closely with a doctor with a certain patient who's having what is called a nervous breakdown. And we, over the years, have spent a lot of time with spiritual healing. Now, do you yourself practice spiritual healing?

Prabhupāda: Hmm, no. Practically, we have very little suffering from disease. The devotees... We are spending so much money, but we don't spend for doctors' bill. You see?

Reverend Powell: Well, normal doctors, but now, we explain to our patients that the doctor normally works with the physical level, and the psychiatrist works with the emotional mental level, but the church works with the spiritual level. And just as Jesus...

Prabhupāda: Spiritual level means to cure his material disease.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: Oh. So those who do not develop their Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully must again take a birth.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

This is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, that "These rascals are working like madmen." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. And always doing mischievous, sinful activities. So this is not good. Because he does not know that for his mischievous sinful activities, he has got a body which is always miserable. So it will continue, to accept miserable body. Therefore it is not good. A doctor can see that "This man is infecting this disease and he will suffer." But the rascal man cannot understand that "I am infecting something and I'll have to suffer." (break) The karmīs, they are trying to become happy by improving this material condition. But he does not know that he is becoming implicated more and more. Because he'll have to accept the body. And there are so many varieties of body. (devotees laugh at something) This is childish. That, our Girirāja took some money.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: There is no responsibilities, all false, māyā. Everyone is maintained by God. It is our false conception that "I am giving protection to anybody." That is false. Just like a man is diseased and we are giving help, medical help, first-class physician, first-class medicine, still he dies. So if God desires that this man must die now, your medical help or physician's help will not act. And if God desires that this man must live, then even without your medical help and physician, he will live. Then where is your responsibility?

Woman: Are you against medical help? I mean, you want just to let Kṛṣṇa do His way and not let the doctors help at all? I mean, don't go a doctor, just rely on Kṛṣṇa to help you?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help you. It is Kṛṣṇa's help that will be counted, not your help or my help.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Not utopian. You do not know. Because just like when you are diseased, there is problem. So to solve that problem, where do you go? Hm?

Brahmānanda: To the doctor.

Prabhupāda: To the qualified physician, not to the storekeeper. Similarly, first thing is, when you want to solve the problem, you must go to the right person. First of all you have to select. So we understand that Kṛṣṇa is the right person. So therefore, it is guaranteed. He knows everything. Others, they do not know. May know to some extent, not perfect. The first thing is that we have to select from whom. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In Vedas it is stated in order to solve the problem or to understand the situation, you should go to the guru. So who can be better than Kṛṣṇa as guru? He taught, He gave lessons to Brahmā, the original living creature in this universe. Tene brahma hṛdā. He gave lessons to Brahmā how to create. Therefore, who can be better guru than Kṛṣṇa? Or even Brahmā. Brahmā, (indistinct) he has created this universe, but He taught Brahmā. And Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the supreme guru.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, "You should do; you should not do." So if we follow "You should not do," then it becomes quickly recovered. But if he becomes under the treatment of the doctor at the same time he does all nonsense, then how it can be successful? It will take time. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya pracūra. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya... Offenseless chanting is the ultimate goal. In the beginning we are not offenseless, but by chanting, chanting, by practice, we gradually become offenseless. But this is necessary, that you should be offenseless.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, this is not... Philosophy, of course... Philosophy is the science of science. This is scientifically true that we are not this body.

Hṛdayānanda: So I'll tell you what else he said. He said that even though we may not be this body, even though we should be looking for God, still, for example, he, as a doctor, if a patient comes to him and has, for example, say, some disease, he can, within twenty-four hours, cure the disease and stop the person's suffering. And he feels that even though he may be looking for God, that does not mean that he should let someone go on suffering if he can very easily stop it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not I am talking of God. I am talking of the constitutional position of the living being. That is science. So just like the same example: the driver is different from the car, but when there is some defect in the car, we are not advising that don't take care of the car. But if you simply take care of the car and don't take care of the driver, that is the basic mistake of the civilization.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So he is interested only on the temporary life. Never mind. There may be disaster.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): As a doctor, he says he is naturally interested in this life in the problems of the body, but he also feels that a human being should follow whatever philosophy he chooses in order to achieve what one may call the spiritual world or eternal happiness.

Prabhupāda: Then it is something like that, that the motor mechanic is interested with the motor car, but he is not interested with the welfare of the driver. But the fact is, if the driver is not in order, the car will not go. It may be well-equipped, well-engined, well-oiled, but if the driver is defective, it will create another disaster.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Tripurāri: So I was wondering. Sometimes our men on saṅkīrtana, they are shaking hands...

Prabhupāda: But you are saṅkīrtana. You cannot be infected. (break) ...party is infected, then preaching will stop. If doctor is infected, then treatment will stop. Doctor is never infected. They have good precautions. Similarly, when you are engaged in saṅkīrtana, māyā cannot touch. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. (break)

Tripurāri: ...disciples and you accept our karma also. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tripurāri: That is manifest sometimes in disease on your body?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not spiritual type, it..., material type. He cannot maintain himself independently. Nowadays people are being educated highly, but if there is no service he has no value.

Guest (2): So the tamasi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunātha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunātha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. Just like the dogs. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then street dog. He is lean and thin and no shelter, no...

Guest (1): That is what is happening...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. They are so-called educated, doctors, but actually they have no knowledge. Simply they are bluffing, cheating. Where is the question of creation? So many millions and trillions of living entities are there, and they are making conference, "How to create from chemicals?" Just see this childish proposal. And wasting time and misleading person, and wasting hard-earned money of the state. And big, big foundation supplying them money. And if you ask, "Give us some money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness," "No, no, we are not interested in religion. We are interested in science, and this is the science." All fools and rascal, mūḍhā. That is our test. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a mūḍhā. Bas. We have got the test tube, this Bhagavad-gītā, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So as soon as we see here is a man, if he has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, "All right, you are mūḍhā." That's all. We haven't got to test him. Test tube is already there. So you tell these mūḍhas that "Why you are wasting so much time and money to find out how to manufacture life? Then what are these life? How they have come? That is not a problem, that without your creation of life the world will go to hell. It is already there." What do they say? "Why they are trying to create life?" What is their answer? What they will get it? The things are already there. Suppose there are so many motorcars, and if I manufacture one motorcar, so is there any great credit for me? The motorcars are already there. When there was no car, motorcar, the first man who manufactured, he had some credit. Who manufactured? The Daimler or somebody else? So he had some credit, "Yes, you have done something, horseless carriage. People will get something convenience. That's all right." But when there are thousands and millions of motorcars and creating accident only, and still, if I manufacture motorcar, what is my credit? What is my credit?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Zero.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, now this killing of the babies are going on.

Guest (1): You mean abortions.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and not abortion, killing, regular killing. Sometimes they kill, the doctors. So it is going to be supported, like that, scientific research?

Guest (1): No, Swamiji, it's a matter of opinion when the mentally fetus becomes an individual. If you think that as soon as it is conceived, it is an individual—of course it is because it's going to grow into one—then of course it's killing.

Prabhupāda: You believe that the child in the womb is not individual?

Guest (1): No, I don't have any personal thoughts about it though. But I think if a woman thinks that she is not suited as a mother...

Prabhupāda: Then why she has sex?

Guest (1): Well, in this present world I think, you know, sex is not for procreation, it is more for fun. I think ninety-nine percent of the couples who indulge in sex do not think of children at that time.

Prabhupāda: But that is sinful.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: No, you require... First thing, you require to eat. So Kṛṣṇa says that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce sufficient grain, food grain, so that both the animal and the man, they will eat and become robust, stout, and strong. And they will be capable of working. So that is the first thing. But who is producing food grains? They are producing motor tires. When there is scarcity of food, will these motor tires help us? We shall eat motor tires? This is going on, so-called industrialization, producing unnecessary thing which is not required, and they are neglecting producing food grains. And I have estimated—I am traveling all over the world—that there are so much space even now that if you produce food grain, you can feed ten times of the population as it is. But they will not do that. They will create motorcars, and the whole street is congested. At any moment there can be accident, and if you have to go to consult a doctor, you have to go thirty miles off. Because the motorcar is there. I am diseased. I want to consult a doctor. So he must be in neighborhood. But I have to go thirty miles. And maybe, before going to the doctor, I may be finished, by accident. Anartha, it is called anartha. Anartha means unwanted things.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Āhus tvāṁ ṛṣayaḥ sarve: "All the ṛṣis, great saintly persons, they have accepted You." And some of them are named: Asita, Devala, Vyāsa. They are very great authority, ṛṣis: Vyāsadeva, who has compiled the whole Vedic literature; Nārada, the spiritual master of Vyāsadeva; similarly, Asita, Devala, very, very big, big stalwart, they have accepted. So apart from all these ṛṣis, recently, within, say, thousand years, great ācāryas just like Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, they have all accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. And India's Vedic culture is practically dependent on all these ācāryas. So we are follower of these ācārya, so we accept, following the footsteps of the ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who has ācārya, guidance... Just like if anyone is going to be doctor of philosophy, he is guided by three ācāryas. That is the system in India. I think the same here, is it not? Anyone who is going to present some thesis, he is guided by three experienced professors, is it not?

Dr. Movebhed: Yes, more or less.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Change. So the body has changed. But I remember that I had such a body. Therefore I am different from the body. I wish to possess again that body, to jump, but I cannot. This is the condition of my life. By nature's law I am getting one body and I am changing to another body. This is going on. So as in this life I have got this experience, that I have changed my body, similarly, the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa, says that "When this body will be finished, you'll get another body," very simple thing. But these rascals do not understand. All these rascals, they do not understand. There is practical experience, and there is authoritative statement, and still, they do not know, and still, they are big, big professors, big, big learned scholars, doctor, scientist, philosophers. What is this?

Girl: No knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Girl: No knowledge

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Haṁsadūta: No knowledge.

Girl: No knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That is... That is the... That means everyone is in ignorance, and they are passing on as doctors, philosophers, scientists. This is the condition of the present civilization. Fools and rascals are passing on as doctor of philosophy, doctor of knowledge. First of all, you have to judge this.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Yaśodānandana: They don't have faith in the doctor.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Yaśodānandana: They don't have faith in the doctor.

Prabhupāda: Then how he claims to..., claims others' faith upon him? He's more than a doctor? Doctor is also as good as scientist as you are. If you do not have faith in the doctor why do you claim people should have faith in you? Where is the proof that you'll be able? Why you are asking us blindly to follow you? What is your answer?

Nitāi: Sometimes they say that if we can control, if we can produce...

Prabhupāda: But I'm protesting that you cannot control. You are rascal. You are thinking like that. That is our charge against you, that you cannot control. In the history there is not a single instance that man has controlled nature. But nature has controlled man. That is the history. Where is the proof that you shall control? You are controlled. Nature is forcing you to become an old man. You are becoming. You control like that, that you remain a young man. Nature is controlling you to die. You control nature that death will not be forced upon me.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the effects appear to be the same on everyone.

Prabhupāda: No. We are not so much after doctors or medical...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your students also suffer from diseases and all...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So long the body's there, one has to suffer. That we tolerate. That is advised in the Bhagavad-gītā,

mātrā sparśās tu kaunteya
śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
āgamāpāyino nityās
tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
(BG 2.14)

Titikṣa, we know how to tolerate. We are not mad after curing. We know these things will happen so long I have got this body.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you have got the necessary intellect, then you are no better than the animals. The animals have no intellect to understand God, but the human being has got that intellect. That is the distinction between animal and human being. (break) Sleeping, the human being also sleeps; they also sleep. Then sex enjoyment: the human being also enjoy, and the animals also enjoy. And protection from fear or becoming fearful—the human being is also fearful and arranges for protection, and the animal also does. So far the primary necessities of life, that is equal in animal and human being. But the human being has a special intellect developed than the animals that he can understand what he is, what is God, what is this cosmic manifestation, and what is the aim of life, how we should conduct. These things are prerogatives for the human being. The animals have no such prerogative. So if we do not utilize these special intellectual activities, then we remain animal. We do not make any development. So at the present moment they are improving the method of primary necessities of life—eating, sleeping, mating and defending. They are thinking the dog is eating on the floor; if we can eat on table, chair and nice dish, that is advancement of civilization. They are thinking like that. The dog is sleeping on the floor, and if we sleep in very nice apartment, very decorated, that is advancement of civilization. The dog is having sexual intercourse on the street without any shame, and we are also coming to that point already. And if we have sex intercourse in the name of love and so on, so on, that is advancement. And dog is defending with his jaws and nails and teeth, you are defending with atomic bomb, therefore we are advanced. But they have forgotten that the human being has got this special intellect to understand God. That they are not doing. Just like you are going to be a doctor in anthropology. Is it not?

Carol: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Sweetness? That is false sweetness. Just like sexual intercourse. This is sweet, but aftereffect is very poisonous. Either illicit or legal, the aftereffect is very... You have to take care of the children, the child is diseased, go to the doctor and this, that, so many, maintenance... And illicit—then this charge of rape case and so many other things. So both of them, in the beginning it is very happy, but at the end it is very distressing. That is material happiness. Everyone knows it, that it is distasteful. But still, he does that. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpanāḥ bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Therefore this kṛpanāḥ... Kṛpanāḥ means miser or foolish person.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are very expert in doing that. That is advanced civilization. Now they are marrying man to man and accepting homosex, so what is the value now of this priestly class?

Paramahaṁsa: They have another thing now where they, a man goes to the doctor and has an operation to change his sex from man to woman.

Prabhupāda: Sex. Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Or from woman to man. That's called transvestites.

Prabhupāda: That is going on?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Just like now we have come to the point where the different doctors are thinking very seriously of having this mercy killing passed in the courts. When a person becomes too much diseased, actually he would be happier if he was dead, so why not kill him?

Prabhupāda: That is contradictory. He will kill somebody, and he will give life somebody. That is... There is no standard. Everything is all right. Then why do you bother that "This is good"? The same "good" is bad for others.

Paramahaṁsa: That's why we have psychiatrists, to decide... They analyze the person very carefully and see what is good for him. And completely on a relative basis they give a prescription.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you think what is good for you? Why you are so busy for the good of others?

Śrutakīrti: Well that's this particular person's happiness, is seeing that others are happy.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The same happiness is distress for others. Then what is the use, bothering yourself, "This is happiness; this is distress"?

Śrutakīrti: Because that is what makes me happy.

Amogha: We understand it is relative. Therefore we're working in a relative world.

Prabhupāda: All right, do that. Madman's program. That is Vivekananda, "Everything is all right." "Everything is all right"—then why do you preach? You stop your preaching. Everything is all right. What is the use of saying that "This is good; this is bad"? Everything is all right.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the śāstra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this. Just like when we introduced this "No illicit sex." I never cared for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done. That is the defect of Western civilization. Vox populi, taking opinion of the public. But what is the value of this public? Drunkards, smokers, meat-eaters, woman-hunters. What is the... they are not first-class men. So what is the use of such third-class, fourth-class men's opinion? We do not advocate such opinion. What Kṛṣṇa said, that is standard, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and His version is final.

No opinion, no democracy. When you go to a physician, doctor, for treatment, the physician does not place his prescription for opinion of other patients: "Now I am prescribing this medicine for this gentleman, now give me your opinion." Does he do that? The all patients, what they will think? The physician is the perfect person. Whatever he has written prescription, that's all. But here in the Western... everything, public opinion.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: But how do we reconcile the fact that our doctors tell us we should eat meat because of the protein?

Prabhupāda: That is a foolishness. They are not eating meat for the last ten years. Do you think they are reduced in their health? Rather people say bright faces. In Boston one priest, I was going from Los Angeles to Hawaii. One gentleman in plain dress, he is a priest, he said, "Swamiji, how your students look so bright?" And sometimes we are advertised as bright faces. In Boston or somewhere the ladies were asking, "Are you American?"

Director: How would you react if somebody breaks into this place and tries to rob some of the...

Madhudviṣa: He says "How would we react if someone breaks in and tries to rob the building?"

Prabhupāda: Rob?

Madhudviṣa: A thief. What would we do if a thief came in? In other words, would we be violent?

Prabhupāda: If a thief came in we shall punish him.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: It is not effective. Just like the government spending to stop drug habit, millions of dollars, no use, but as soon as they come to us, immediately they give up. But still, the rascal will not pay the money to us. (laughter) We are doing so much benefit, but they will not pay. If you ask them money, "No, no, our money is not for religious purpose. For science. Our money is for science." Science means how, scientifically, you can kill cows. This is science. How, scientifically, you can become less than cats and dogs. This is their science. The cats and dogs also, they do not kill their children, but they are scientific advanced; the doctor advises, "Kill it."

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: I was speaking with Professor Stahl about this point in Berkeley. And he also had no answers for this question. He thought that there was no such thing as eternal life.

Prabhupāda: Well, then, therefore you are a rascal. Then why you are struggling to live? Why, when you are sick, why do you call doctor, physician? Why this tendency? Why you are making research in medical science, opening hospital? Die. Why you are not willing to die? Then what is the answer? He says, "There is no such thing as eternity," but why you are struggling for eternity? Then what is the answer? Hmm?

Bahulāśva: Well, when we tell them your philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he became silent. The one... We were having a debate, and the one chairman of the debate, he then he turned to Mr. Stahl. He said, "So what do you think of this answer, Mr. Philosopher?" And Mr. Stahl just sat there very quiet. He couldn't say anything.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Everyone is trying to live. That is Darwin's theory also, "struggle for existence." So why you are trying to exist if there is no such thing?

Satsvarūpa: Well, they say, "We don't mind if we're not eternal, but we want to live as long as possible."

Prabhupāda: Why? That is my question. Why? Why this tendency?

Revatīnandana: Some years back...

Prabhupāda: That means it is unnatural. "I am eternal, but this death has been forced upon me. That is unnatural." That is intelligence.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: This Dr. Gerson, he comes to āratik and he likes to chant and dance.

Prabhupāda: This doctor?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So convert him also to be a devotee. Then that is another PhD.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, yes. He said he would love to come and teach at our college.

Prabhupāda: Very good. But he must give up his bad habits, illicit sex, meat-eating. At least they must give up.

Dharmādhyakṣa: He is giving them up. He says that he is becoming more sensitive.

Prabhupāda: If he chants, then he is purified.

Dharmādhyakṣa: He realizes this. All his psychologist friends, they are just crazy. They are not solving any problem.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Bahulāśva: That would be all right?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Dharmādhyakṣa: There's this one psychologist. He comes every week to study Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and he plays some of the bhajana tapes in his office. And there's twenty doctors in his office, and he plays it so all the doctors can hear. And they all come in and ask him, "What is that wonderful music?" He says, "Oh, this is from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement." He says, "No, that can't be from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. They just chant and dance on the street the same thing." He says, "No, no, no, this is the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement." They are very, very pleased. He gives all his patients mantra cards and tells them, "You should go to the temple. This will really help you." (break)

Prabhupāda: This is nudie beach?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The nude beach.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm. The yogic process is to control the mind. Our process is: immediately engage the mind in Kṛṣṇa, thinking of Kṛṣṇa, feeling for Kṛṣṇa, willing to act for Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be all right. Then everything will be all right. If the mind is immediately engaged in the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then this side and that side, everything will be all right. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). Padāravindayoḥ, in the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa mind is engaged. So this is our process, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma...," engaging the mind, meditation.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the doctor was saying that he holds to the philosophy of Kant.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Kant.

Bahulāśva: Kant, yes. He was explaining nicely his point of view downstairs before we came up.

Prabhupāda: What is that Kant's philosophy?

Dr. John Mize: One major difference it seems with the point of view of the eastern Indian philosophies in particular is that the soul of man does not seem to be something eternal, but it seems to be something created.

Prabhupāda: Created?

Dr. John Mize: Created.

Prabhupāda: No. Soul is part and parcel of God. As God is not created, He is creator, above creation, so the father creates a child; therefore father is above creation. So God is above creation. God created the cosmic manifestation. Before creation of this cosmic world, God was there. Therefore He is not created; He is creator of all created things. And the soul, being part and parcel of God, he is also not created.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: And this is Dr. John Pore. He is the chairman of the religion department at the University of Southern California, and he has written a few books called "The Radical Suburb" and "Ethical Choice," and his academic interest is in ethics and religion and culture and education in public policy. And this is Dr. Crossley back here, also from the University of Southern California. He has a doctor of theology, and he is interested in modern theology. He's written many articles on modern theologians...

Prabhupāda: Then why modern theology? (laughter) Is God modern?

Dr. Crossley: No, but one can't do all theologians, one can't do every theologian.

Prabhupāda: No, "theo" means God, is it not?

Dr. Crossley: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And theology is science of God. So what is that science? You are trying to understand God, or you know God; you are going to abide by God's dictation. First of all, two things: you do not know God; you are trying to find out God. I think this is not theology; it is theosophy. Those who are trying to find out God by speculation, they are theosophist. And theologist means one who knows God and abides by his order. Just like we know government and we accept the government's law and abide by it. That is good citizenship. And those who have no government, they are trying to find out some good system of government, and that is another thing. So what is your position? You know God or you are trying to find out God? What is the theologician's position? That is my question.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: When you can give life. There is sometimes cow sacrifice yajña. The cow sacrifice yajña means an old cow, he is sacrificed in the fire, and by Vedic hymns he is given again new life. To test the potency of the Vedic mantra, an old cow is sacrificed and by mantra he is given again new life. Not for killing and eating. That was discussed between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Chand Kazi, Mohammedan magistrate. Those who have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta will find. So the Kazi was challenged by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "You are killing cow and bulls. What is your religion? You are killing your father and mother." Then, he also was learned man, he said it that "In your Vedas the cow sacrifice yajña is there." Then He explained, "This sacrifice is not for eating. It is giving a new life. To test the Vedic mantra." That is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is a different case. For meat-eating a cow should not be killed. This is not very good civilization. If you are..., you must eat meat, then you can kill other animals. They, those who are the kṣatriyas, they were sometimes going to the forest, killing the deer. They are allowed. Because they have to learn how to kill. So by killing animals, they used to practice. Just like doctors, medical practitioners, they first of all ply their knife on the dead body and find out where are the nerves, where are the..., not a living man.

Morning Walk -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So I have sent news to Praṇava to complete the negotiation, and he has done nothing?

Nitāi: I don't know whether he has done or not.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...doctor?

Nitāi: The doctor is staying there. He is... (break) ...for a few days and stays, and then he goes for a few days. Then he comes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Pradyumna is doing?

Nitāi: Pradyumna has gone to Māyāpur to help train the Sastris.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nitāi: To teach the Sastris English, he has gone to Māyāpur. They have all gone to Māyāpur because they were facing criticism from the residents of Vṛndāvana. Many of their old schoolmates were criticizing that they are coming and joining us. These are... (break) ...are very desirous of taking initiation from you.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Nitāi: Ananta Ram Sastri and one other, I forget his name. He is very, very good in Sanskrit. He reads it fluently, speaks it fluently.

Prabhupāda: He speaks Sanskrit also?

Nitāi: Yes. Speaks it. He lectures in Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's good.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Kuruśreṣṭha: All, in this area, doctors and high class, so-called high class men live.

Prabhupāda: The real doctor is he who can cure material disease. What do you think?

Satsvarūpa: You said Murāri Gupta was a doctor in both ways.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: But I heard that he made a condition that he will no more be bothered. On this condition, he agreed to resign. (break) ...India the trouble is dissention between Indira Gandhi and Jaya Prakash Nārāyaṇa. So that Jaya Prakash Nārāyaṇa is fasting, I have heard.

Brahmānanda: That gentleman said. The doctor said. He's seventy-nine years of age.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-nine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Is there any danger to us from her arresting so many people?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now she has clearly indicated that she is like a dictator. Otherwise how could she arrest...

Prabhupāda: So both of them are in distressed condition. I am thinking of writing them about Bhagavad-gītā. Do you think it is advised? They can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Nixon would be more inclined to read it than Mrs. Gandhi. Because she already has rejected Hindu culture.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhi. I mean, she always turns towards the Muslims more.

Prabhupāda: No, no, she has guru. And she is going occasionally to Anandamayi.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. A frog in the well is thinking, "This is the limit of water." (laughter) And if you say there is Atlantic Ocean, he cannot understand it. He will think, "What is that?" "Oh, it is very big." "How much? Is it three feet? It is four feet?" "No, no, very big." "Five feet?" "No, no, still..." "Six feet?" So he is calculating in that way, "Four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten," but Atlantic ocean is beyond his conception. So these are all Dr. Frog's philosophy. Yes. And the so-called philosophers, they are Dr. Frog. (laughter) We consider them as Dr. Frog. Some of my students who are doctors, they are now trying to give up their job because they are understanding this is all false knowledge. Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: That Ahmedabad, that gentleman in his house, you were guest, you were in Ahmedabad?

Jayatīrtha: Ahmedabad, that...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: ...homeopathic doctor?

Prabhupāda: No, no, that gentleman, his name I forget now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Patel?

Prabhupāda: Patel, yes. Not the doctor, the young man in whose house we became guest. He's doing this business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eating it.

Prabhupāda: He's mixing with something, making like that Chinese grass and what you call? His business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Chinese eat this.

Prabhupāda: Chinese, Japanese.

Rāmeśvara: In Japan, it is very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: But that you do not know, how to do good to the people. Just like a diseased man. The doctor has ordered that he should starve. But if you go in the hospital and you take sympathy with the starving patient, "Oh, you are starving for the last three days," if you give to him some food without the permission of the physician, then you will be punished. So he may think that "Oh, here is a starving man. I must give him some food." But you are liable to be punished. So first of all learn how to do good to others. So that is described here. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). To bring him to the knowledge of self-realization, that is good. If you can distribute knowledge to bring him back to his consciousness, original consciousness, that is real welfare activity. Otherwise, if you manufacture something that "This man is starving: let me give him some food," it may be wrongly done, and you are liable to be punished. So first of all, you must learn what is actually good to the human society. Then, if we do that, that is good. In ignorance, if we do it, then we may be liable to be punished. Besides that, your thought is imperfect. Just like you try to give food to some living being, but other living being you send to the slaughterhouse. You do not consider. You put your philosophy, that "The animal has no soul. They are like dead matter," but that is not the fact. The animals also have got soul, and the human being, he has got also soul. The ant has got also soul. Everyone has got. Every living being has got soul. Why you are inclined to do good to the human society? What is the reason? Why not to the animals?

Devotee (3): Because we see ourselves in other humans more than we see ourselves in animals.

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Practical? What is not practical? We are not eating? We are not sleeping?

Ādi-keśava: Yes, they are saying, "Oh, when will you learn to do a trade? When will you learn to perform business, or when will you learn to become a doctor, if you are always studying..."

Prabhupāda: But you are doctor already. Why shall I become doctor? You serve me. We serve you by giving you Kṛṣṇa consciousness; you serve me as a doctor. What is the wrong there? Parasparārtham. I am for you; you are for me. Division of labor, that is accepted universally. So ask them, "Do you think that everyone should become doctor? Then where is the patient?" Eh? Everything is required. Similarly, you require our help also. It is cooperation. You know medical science; we know spiritual science. So let us exchange and be happy. Why you are envious of us? Why there is division in the body—head, arms, legs, belly? Why not everything head or everything leg? Why there is divided? That is nature. It is required. Why this road is neglected?

Mādhavānanda: It's mismanagement.

Ādi-keśava: Even they are saying that, that we don't know how to, we're not teaching anything practical.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ādi-keśava: Even sometimes they are saying we're not teaching anything practical.

Prabhupāda: What does he mean by practical?

Ādi-keśava: Practical? They're thinking we don't know how to operate in the material world.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ādi-keśava: They're thinking we don't know how to manage things.

Prabhupāda: We are not managing things? Hm? Brahmānanda? You are not managing?

Brahmānanda: We manage all day long. (laughing)

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They make analysis—"This is good; this is bad." The whole thing is bad; they do not understand. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakale samana, ei bhala ei manda saba manodharma. A mental concoction we analyze—"This is good." And because the whole population is such rascal, therefore we see whole world they are creating government, they are making this advancement, taking... Everything is spoiled. That they do not understand, that "We have tried so far, scientifically and this way and that way. Why there are so many things disturbing and miserable?" The whole policy is to give you trouble. That is the material nature. You must be always in trouble. Adhyātmika adhibhautika. "No." They will say, "No, this trouble is better than that trouble." (laughter) This is the... This trouble is better than that trouble. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Dr. Ghosh, he said... When he was student in Calcutta he was doctor of tropical medicine. So one English doctor was his professor, Colonel Maylow(?). So he was lecturing and... Now the friends have come to greet. He said that "In our country 75%, at least, students are infected with syphilis."

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Syphilis, yes. So in India the syphilis is very horrible disease. So he exclaimed, "Oh, it is horrible." The doctor, that Colonel Maylow(?), he was astonished: "Why you say it is horrible? In your country they suffer, 90%, from malaria. That's not horrible?" So the example is that when you are suffering for a doctor, either you are suffering from malaria or from syphilis, we are suffering from disease. Why you say "This disease is horrible than that disease"? Actually this is the fact. Why should you discriminate? So he chastised him that "As a medical man, you cannot say this disease is more dangerous than that. Every disease is dangerous." Actually you should take that. Suffering, three kinds of suffering—adhyātmika, adhibhautika... The suffering is there. If you say adhyātmika suffering is better than adhibhautika suffering, that is foolishness. Atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. Spiritual life means to end all kinds of suffering. That is spiritual life. Not that I get free myself from this kind of suffering and I accept that kind of suffering. This is not good conclusion. Atyantika-duḥkha. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). This place is duḥkhālayam, full of miseries. And Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, "Why you are suffering? Come to Me." This mercantile community, they are earning money for mitigating suffering, but for earning money they are accepting any means. In future he is creating field of another suffering. That he does not know. He thinks, "Now, if I get money somehow or other, my present sufferings will be mitigated." But he does not know that he is creating another field of suffering.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is also another side. But practically you see.

Vāsughoṣa: Hm. But by this smoking cigarettes, meat-eating... I mean, we explain to them that doctors have found that meat-eating...

Prabhupāda: I have seen about some thirty years ago, one man was sitting... I was traveling in the railway apartment, and all of a sudden he jumped through the window.

Devotees: Whew!

Prabhupāda: All of a sudden. He was sitting nicely. What he was thinking I do not know. But he took the opportunity of open window and jumped. I have seen.

Morning Walk -- September 18, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So why they are not printed?

Indian man (1): They will be good sale of photos, I think. (Hindi) It may be supplied in that book shop.

Dhanañjaya: So Bhargava has taken many good shots of the Deities on color film, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa informed me that we should print postcard-size photos of the Deities and sell them for fifty paisas each. So that, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is arranging for. (break) ...demand for prasādam will go on increasing because one doctor came to our temple and informed us that at Bankebihari Mandir, because they have been giving out old prasādam, selling old prasādam, which is not in accordance with the health safety rules, they are going to take away that privilege of selling prasādam from Bankebihari temple.

Prabhupāda: So you don't do that. You prepare and sell fresh. Don't prepare more what is required. You have brought that pulleys?

Dhanañjaya: Yes. And he got two.

Prabhupāda: You have fixed up?

Guṇārṇava: They are fixing today. They started the work.

Prabhupāda: You know how to fix?

Guṇārṇava: Yes. They know how to do it.

Prabhupāda: One bamboo, you just crosswise fix up and then in the middle... The rope should come through one pulley first, then the second pulley. Then it will not go out.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no more.

Kartikeya: O.K. (Hindi to someone) Because we are coming every day morning. The park opens at six o'clock, I think. This park opens at six. (to Prabhupāda:) They form a club in the park when they come in the morning. They have morning party or talking. Otherwise they can't meet during the day. Somebody's a doctor, somebody's... (break)

Prabhupāda: We can meet if they give us time.

Kartikeya: Tomorrow we shall. If we start little late, we can meet at seven. (break) Lot of parrots. Millions of them.

Prabhupāda: No, as there, in India at least.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: So these drugs, even though one may be feeling pain, he can take the drugs and he won't feel pain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He will take injection. It is comfort. Daily he will take injection, and it is comfort. (laughter) Just see the fools and rascals. Mūḍha. (break) ...met so many medical men, doctors and quack. "Die comfortably." What is the use of this medical man, medicine? What is the use? If your comfort and death is comfortable, then why spend so much money? Die comfortably. Because you cannot check death, then why you are trying to check death? "Let me live some years more. Let me take this medicine." Why? Why this struggle? Die comfortably. Suffer disease comfortably.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No. That you are failure. You have got so many machines. You go on, keeping the heart going on. That is not possible.

Harikeśa: Finally they just pull out the plug. The doctor kicks the plug one day.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Then die. (laughter) Do you mean to say this modern medical treatment is guarantee for your living?

Harikeśa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? That is also not guarantee. If you see the herbs and plants are no more effective, then if there is no guarantee in your modern medical, there is no guarantee. So why should you spend so much money? As soon as I go to a doctor, immediately twenty dollars. As soon as go to purchase some drugs, immediately twenty. If I have no money... And still that is not guarantee, so why shall I spend so much money?

Harikeśa: So actually this money doesn't even exist in Vedic society—money.

Prabhupāda: Money is not required. You require things. Just like instead of money, you are getting papers. Money means gold. Where is gold? You are cheated. Money means gold. So instead of possessing gold, you are possessing some paper, written there, "hundred dollars." And you are such a fool, you are satisfied. You are being cheated. Bank's check and currency notes, you keep it in your..., "Oh, here is my money." Is that money? Just see.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five percent of them are mischievous. I have got experience. Seventy-five percent, they are simply mischievously planning—you have got five thousand or ten thousand dollar—to take it away, showing you that you are getting 200,000 worth of property. In this way they make implication, take your ten thousand dollar, and then finished. Many cases. Their only business is this. Big, big lawyer implicated. Therefore they are duṣkṛtina. Go to a lawyer; immediately you are implicated. You see, this man is condemned, Nixon, and he is to pay the lawyer's bill by working hard, by writing a book and selling the good will to some company. He has to pay the lawyer's bill. He has no money. The lawyers, doctors, as soon as they get some opportunity, immediately captures you and finish-bas. How to take away all your money. Because artificially they have enhanced the standard of living, they want money. So unless they do mischievous activity, by honest means they cannot get money.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: Sex life, illicit or legal, the after-effect is suffering. Even it is not illicit—it is legal—then to take care of the wife or the children, for their education, for their upliftment and so on, so on, so on—suffering. And if it is illicit, then these sufferings: you commit sinful activities, kill the child, contraceptive, with the abortion, go to the doctor, pay, and so on, so on. So where is no suffering? Either legal or illicit, you have to suffer. Bahu-duḥkha bhajaḥ. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpana bahu-duḥkha bhajaḥ. These rascals, once they have done, "That's all right. You have got one child. Just take of." "No, again, again." Once you have committed sinful activities, killing the child in the womb, "All right, stop it now." "No, again." Tṛpyanti neha kṛpana. He's never satisfied. He knows that there is suffering behind this. Still, he'll not stop it. Therefore a sober man... A man should be educated to become sober, that "Let me tolerate this itching, that's all. I save so much trouble." This is knowledge. To become rascal and more rascal and more rascal and suffer, is that civilization? Simply to make the people rascal and suffer and commit suicide? Just tell them that he has created this civilization that suffer and become rascal. That's all. Unless you become rascal, how you will suffer? So keep them rascal and suffer. This is nature's arrangement, that "You living entity, you have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. All right, come under my control. Be rascal, remain rascal and suffer." Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Why she is doing that? "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you will go on suffering like this." This is the nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). But the rascal... Because he is rascal, he does not know that "I am under the full control of prakṛti, material nature, and her business is to keep me rascal and suffer." And they are advanced in education.
Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Just see. Where is this? That is their science? Take money and do nothing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At least in the past when there was disease people would depend on God more. Now they depend on the doctors.

Prabhupāda: No, still they have to depend on God. Otherwise this man spent so much money. God denied, "No, your wife will not stay," and she had to die.

Brahmānanda: (break) ...when she went to London for treatment she became worse.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like vitamin pill—no hand.

Cyavana: Yes. No arms.

Prabhupāda: Simply they are cheating. There was one gentleman, English gentleman, Sir William Temple. He used to say, "I wish to die without a doctor. Don't bring doctor."

Cyavana: Without a doctor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Let me die peacefully. Don't bring doctor." I say also. Don't bring doctor when I am diseased. What is this?

Brahmānanda: (break) There's a chair if you would like to sit out here in the sun.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not so cold.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

That he knows, but he won't find the way how he can remain... Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Nitya. That path he will not take. Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is the way." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam adyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanam (Bs. 5.33). Kṛṣṇa, the oldest man, oldest living being, but nava-yauvana, always fresh, young... You can get that position. You can play also, play Kṛṣṇa. But that path they will not take. Kṛṣṇa, ever-existingly young man, He is displaying in Vṛndāvana and inviting, "You can also come and join and live like this." "No. That's all. It is all fictitious. There was no Kṛṣṇa. There is no such thing." Immediately dismiss judgment. And by pomade, by injection, by, what is called? Hormone? All these rascals, they are trying to be young. Just see. You are doctor. Can you make young men with this...

Indian lady (3): Temporary they give hormone.

Prabhupāda: What is this temporary? Temporary means...

Indian lady (3): Temporary they get to be God.

Prabhupāda: One Marwari man, very rich man, he eighty years old, he wanted to change the hormones to remain...

Indian lady (3): Yes. That was in Indore.

Prabhupāda: Indore, yes.

Indian lady (3): Kukumcha.

Prabhupāda: Kukumcha. Yes, you know.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: No, formerly, three hundred years, you had some water; therefore the water is coming out. This is all nonsense. Seven generation before my great-grandfather ate some ghee, and still I have got the smell. (laughter) It is that argument. Huh? This kind of argument has no value. Water is... You can create water from your body. What is there? You are a doctor. What is your...? Eh? Medical men they are. No? Water is created. How the blood is created? He did not drink blood. This is nonsense argument. How we create blood? It is becoming. You do not know how it is, but you have got such potency that blood is being created. You even do not know how the blood is being done, but it is being. That is inconceivable energy. There are so many secretions. They are coming within the body. So everything is there. By God's supreme energy they are being automatically. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). God has got multi-energies. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is the description. He hasn't got to do anything.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Harikeśa: But he is fit to live so he can live. But someone other than...

Prabhupāda: Nobody is fit. The doctors also become sick as soon as there is violation. The violation is the cause of sickness, so either he may be doctor or no doctor, that does not matter. If you violate, you'll be sick. That is nature's law. Nature's law.

Devotee (1): Speaking of chance, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it was mentioned in the scriptures that, in The Nectar of Devotion, that in order to be involved in devotional service and execute devotional service in this life, we had to have some devotional service last life. So therefore, were you here last life too, to give us this devotional service?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: He's asking that in The Nectar of Devotion it is stated that for one to engage in devotional service means that in his previous life he had some connection with devotional service. So he's...

Prabhupāda: So where is the chance? It is the cause and effect. If previous life you had some activities and the result is there. So where is chance?

Harikeśa: So that's survival of the fittest. Because he could take to devotional service, he is surviving on in devotional service.

Prabhupāda: Surviving... So he is surviving, but the cause and effect is going on.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa's qualification is there—śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam and jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). Everything is there, the symptoms. So you are doing business, the occupation of the vaiśyas or śūdras, and how you are claiming to become brāhmaṇa? The... Who is a brāhmaṇa, that symptoms is there in the śāstra. And not only the symptoms, Nārada Muni has said, "If these symptoms are found elsewhere, then he should be accepted according to the symptom." There is no question of birth. Yasya hi yaḻ lakṣanām proktaṁ varṇābhivyanjakaṁ yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta tat tenaiva viniriset. This is Nārada's vision. So it is the symptom. Just like a doctor, medical man. He diagnoses according to the symptom. He finds out the cause. So symptom is required, not that a man has become diseased or healthy by birth. No. By birth he is born. Then again, when he develops certain types of symptom, so one has to take him in that way. That is śāstra. We are accepting, or giving them sacred thread, brāhmaṇa, after seeing that they are actually acting as a brāhmaṇa, not superficially. Therefore we take some time to see whether he can develop brahminical symptom. That is our process, not that anyone comes, and we give him a sacred thread and he becomes immediately brāhmaṇa. We don't do this. First of all give him chance. Let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follows the rules and regulations. Then let us see. If he is actually serious, he has developed the symptom, then... This is the proper way. Even one comes from the brāhmaṇa family—he wants initiation—we don't give immediately, even if he is coming from a brāhmaṇa... That is a good facility, that he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, but the symptom is the first necessity. Either you are born in a brāhmaṇa family or śūdra family, it doesn't matter.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Help them. Before my speaking you are saying. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: I am against it, no doubt. Once upon a time I used to be the doctor of all these so-called cinema actors and actresses, and you know their profession. And they are always falling prey of these sort of things, and they would come to me for relief, and I would refuse. So today I have none of them as my patient.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot relieve them.

Dr. Patel: No, I have taken a vow not to do wrong things. That is why I am here in your company. Otherwise I would be somewhere in... That is very common in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Not only Bombay, all over the world. Now it is imported in India also, to get relief of pregnancy.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Sva-karmaṇā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are doctor. You can serve Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ. According to your, I mean, sva-dharma.

Prabhupāda: This is perfection of life, that...

ataḥ puṁbhir dvija-śreṣṭha
varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
svanusthitasya dharmasya
saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
(SB 1.2.13)

You may do whatever occupational duty you are... But you have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then your everything is perfect. And if you satisfy your senses, then you are going to hell. This is the position. Therefore it is... Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). Even that karma is abominable, sa-doṣam api na tyājet (BG 18.48). "You go on with your work. Even there is some fault, it doesn't matter, but you satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect." Just like Arjuna did. The fighting is not good business, but he satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Therefore by fighting, he became a great devotee-sva-karmaṇā. He did not leave his position as a kṣatriya, as a gṛhastha, but he... Karisye vacanam tava: (BG 18.73) "Yes. In spite of my not being inclined to fight, because You are asking, I'll do it." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) (break) You remain in your place, but you have your ears to hear Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be perfect. What is the difficulty? You remain as a doctor. You remain as a pleader. You remain whatever you like. It doesn't matter. But engage your aural reception to the words of Kṛṣṇa. Then you become perfect. What is the difficulty? Simply sit down and hear what Kṛṣṇa says, Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And if you say that "I simply hear," and if you do not act, no, you'll act because as you go on hearing, your heart will be purified. Then you will be inclined to hear..., er, act.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, consciousness... So long the soul is there, the consciousness is there. The consciousness is not there means the soul is not there.

Indian (2): But one thing the doctor has got in power, you see. That is this, that suppose he gives a poisonous injection, that is immediately affected, and why the soul is out of it if...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, all injection will be effective so long the soul is there.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Give it to the dead bodies, he says.

Prabhupāda: That is my point, that if... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. If this analysis of the blood, urine and other things can help us, so you can analyze the dead bodies—stool, urine, blood, something is there—and give some injection and let him come to life.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then you must first of all rectify your karma. Then talk. Past karma, you have got this body. Therefore you must rectify your karma. Karmano 'pi bodhavyam akarmana. You must know what is karma, what is akarma, what is vikarma. That is knowledge. If you remain blind about your karma and by nature's way you get different body, then what is your knowledge? Just like if you go to a doctor, he says that "Due to this infection, you have got this disease," so you know it so that in future you will be very careful. That is knowledge." I do not know why I have got this disease, and still, I do not know what further it is going on"—that is ignorance. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. To remain in ignorance, that is the greatest sin. Tamasi ma: "Don't remain in darkness." That is Vedic injunction, "Enlighten yourself." Jyotir gama: "Go to the light." But where is your light, you do not know. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If they change... "Now the scientists are thinking that"—that means they are rascals.

Dr. Patel: No, but as a matter of fact, they understand this thing from years back, that there should be life on other planets than earth.

Prabhupāda: Oh, many scientists say. I was known to one doctor Shaha in Allahabad. He said there are life. There is no question of disbelieving.

Brahmānanda: There's that article that Hayagrīva sent. The title of the article was, "New Discovery Creates Turmoil Amongst Scientists." Some scientists have now discovered some new sub-atomic particles. This has completely created turmoil amongst the scientists. All of their theories now are all...

Dr. Patel: Those are elementary particle, smaller than the element, present elementary particles.

Brahmānanda: Yes. And they found a lot of them, so now they don't know what to think.

Dr. Patel: Because they are trying to search it out by different matter. This ancient... I mean, the Āryans tried to search it out by different matter, by yoga-vijñāna.

Prabhupāda: Śruti, from the Vedas. Veda-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa That is pramāṇa. And nonsense, speculative, that is not pramāṇa. That is speculation.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...good substance, very good substance. Stool is full of hypophosphates.

Dr. Patel: Whatever it is, but there it is...

Prabhupāda: That was analyzed by a big doctor. You know that Dr. Ghosh who came? Dr. Ghosh from Allahabad? So one day I went to his house, and I saw in a plate something yellow is kept. And "What is this, doctor?" "Oh, that is stool to be examined."

Dr. Patel: The stool, so long it is in your body, it is you, a part of you, because we are all, majority of us are body conscious. There are very few people like you, who are so conscious.

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda philosophy.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Aksayānanda: ...from Agra came yesterday, Prabhupāda. He wants to live with us. He knows Hindi. He's a teacher. He's a doctor. He's a writer. He's very, very nice. I'll bring him to you today.

Prabhupāda: He knows English also?

Aksayānanda: English very well. Very humble and he wants to teach. If he can stay in Vṛndāvana I think it will be very, very beneficial for us.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:
Prabhupāda: Generally they take to religion, religiosity, for material happiness. Artho 'rhati. I am distressed, I have no money, or I am suffering from some disease; you'll find all these. So all of them go to the sādhus only for this purpose. Sir, I am suffering from some disease, so without going to the doctor, and saving so much money, let me pay hundred rupees to the sādhu and he'll give me his blessings. So I will save thousands of rupees, for curing the disease. For this purpose they go to sādhu. Nobody goes to sādhu for going back to home back to godhead. It is only (material) proposition. Otherwise the so-called yogis, sādhus, swamis, they are making good luck business simply by promising that you'll get this material power. This Mahesh Yogi he says that, what is his philosophy?
Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Like us. (laughs raucously)

Prabhupāda: The Doctor is...

Dr. Patel: Before you came here... You can say anything...

Prabhupāda: This is intelligence. This is not mūḍha; this is intelligence. Guru mora mūrkha dekhi' koril śāsana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool number one."

Dr. Patel: So you see me also that way...

Prabhupāda: No. That means He is intelligent. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not a fool, that's a fact, but He presented Himself like that. He is most learned, but He presented before guru, "I am useless, worthless." Tṛṇād api sunīcena...

Dr. Patel: I myself, sir, we are all (indistinct) not like you, we are worthless, we people. Unless you understand your worth... We are really worthless.

Prabhupāda: That is very good. /Tṛṇad api sunīcena/ taror api sahiṣṇunā/ amānin mānadena/ kīrtanīya sad hariḥ. That is the qualification for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree, giving all respect to others, expecting no respect for oneself. These are the qualifications to become perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁs kṣāntir ārjavam. Amanitva. Although he is very qualified, he says "No, no, no. I have no qualification." Amanitvam. This is amānitvam. (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. This is the beginning of knowledge. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahims kṣāntir ārjavam. The materialistic, everyone, they're not amānitvam, our, "I'm so respectful."

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ....when he has gone to send (indistinct) that you have offered some room here?

Saurabha: No, well there was, on the floor space there is facility for a doctor, so he saw that on the plan, so he proposed that "Well, I'm a dentist, so I can give the devotees free service."

Prabhupāda: No, there will be no medical service in the building. (Hindi to some men) These quarters there is no such building, huh? Our, this pattern?

Saurabha: No. Not in Bombay, nowhere in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) That's very good.

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huh? The only defect is that all the ingredients are not very finely powdered. If it is very finely powdered, then it will be very nice.

Lokanātha: You are perfect in all respects. You are your own doctor...

Prabhupāda: I am not doctor, but I created many doctors. (break) (to Dr. Patel:) Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jaya. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: (Hindi: ap lok hamye sa chaye) I have decided not to come today with you. Because I was driven away yesterday morning by your men. I came to look after you.

Prabhupāda: How is that?

Dr. Patel: God only knows. They have behaved so very badly, be three of us. And you were not sleeping even, because I wanted to give you the prescription, so I ran from my house.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Haṁsadūta: No, I was not...

Dr. Patel: No, you were not.

Hariśauri: No, I was there. You had just taken rest in the bedroom, so I thought it best not to disturb you.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I was taking rest.

Page Title:Doctor (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Compiler:Rishab, Mayapur
Created:18 of May, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=98, Let=0
No. of Quotes:98