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Divide (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Vasughosa: (break) In Indonesia the government has a Hindu-Buddha department.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vasughoṣa: Hinduism department in Indonesia. So they've divided the land..., you know, the different religions into different departments, and they have one man who studied in Benares. He's in charge of the whole country for Hinduism and Buddhism.

Prabhupāda: So why they do not allow our?

Vasughosa: No, actually they allow us. They allow our society, but it's such a corrupt country that at any moment they could kick us out if they want. They have no principle except money.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, no. There are two sizes. One is anu, and one is paramanu. Six anus make one paramanu. That is statement. Six anus, and combine together it becomes a paramanu. That is atom. Therefore they are dividing atom. That is already there in the Vedic literature.

Acyutānanda: So the scientists' conception of atom is wrong?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: The scientists' conception of the atom is wrong.

Prabhupāda: Everything is wrong.

Acyutānanda: But by their, even though they are, they are wrong, by their conception they are making an atomic bomb. They can utilize...

Prabhupāda: So far you can, can...

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: Dualism?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not dualism. How many isms, nobody knows. But... What is called? Faction. Faction. Everyone is divided from the other.

Madhudviṣa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So we should not bring that attitude in our society. That is my request.

Guru-kṛpā: Envious. They're all envious.

Prabhupāda: That you should not do. And that unity is possible with, only when harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21) is there constantly. Otherwise, it will be factional. What do you call? Factional is the right word?

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, how you'll find it? Give me. Unless you have an index, list.... The purport of the verse is that even Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He is God himself, Kṛṣṇa Himself—He felt, alone, unable to do this task. He felt. So this is the position. You are cooperating; therefore I am getting the credit. Otherwise alone what could I do? Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself wanted our cooperation. He is God, Kṛṣṇa. And therefore cooperation is very important thing. Nobody should think that "I have got so great ability. I can do." No. It is simply by cooperation we can do very big thing. "United we stand; divided we fall." This is our.... So be strong in pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa will help. He is the strongest. Still, we must be combined together. Saṅkīrtana. Saṅkīrtana means many men combined together chanting. That is saṅkīrtana. Otherwise kīrtana. Saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir militvā kīrtayeti saṅkīrtana.(?) Bahu. Bahu means many, many combined together.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Presence of God is there. When God's part and parcel... (Hindi) This is vision. (Hindi) ...ninety million miles away... (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Sir, this one question is asked by many people, that "How God can have aṁśas? He is perfect. He cannot be divided into multiple parts."

Prabhupāda: He is not divided.

Dr. Patel: That is what I say.

Prabhupāda: No, that is foolishness.

Dr. Patel: That is what I mean to say.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like... It is said, but they are foolish. They cannot understand śāstra. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). That the rascals, they do not understand. They think materially. Just like this flower. If I take little, little, little, then there is no flower. They are thinking like that. But here is the warning. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam... Even the whole flower is taken, still whole.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That's right. I am talking to my scientist friends, sir. That is which medium they move.

Prabhupāda: The protons, electrons, and they have not come to any conclusion. They are still dividing. NDA? They have found some NDA?

Dr. Patel: Elementary particles.

Prabhupāda: No, NDA?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: DNA.

Dr. Patel: DNA, that is biochemistry. DNA. (laughs) (Hindi?) This DNA and RNA, these are the special nucleic acids. They actually have the power to procreate new cells. These our Indian..., that, those scientists have.... (laughter) Because I am.... In fact, that company.... I got that bad company just now, this.... So I say "Indian." Very good joke. RNA and DNA are nothing, but we don't know how they work even now. A lot of research is going on.

Prabhupāda: Our study should be that these things we cannot explain, but these things are there, so there is a great scientist. That's it. That much understanding is good. You go on analyzing one after another, so you do not come to the final conclusion. But you see actually it is existing, so it has been done by a great scientist. That is wanted.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The difference of each comes in practically two, three Upaniṣads, the one which you have also commented. There is. That happens, the Muṇḍakopaniṣad, the beginning. (Sanskrit) So we are the scientists of the aparā-vidyā; you are the scientist of the parā-vidyā. So we must not have any quarrel. We have divided our sphere of activity.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no quarrel, but we say that these are for the rascals. Yes. Aparā-vidyā is for the rascals.

Dr. Patel: No, no, even the greatest of the saints, namely, the guru of.... I mean, Śuka(?) Mahārāja, also he had the first aparā-vidyā. Then parā-vidyā.... Aparā-vidyā is the first step.

Prabhupāda: And so long you are in aparā-vidyā, you remain a rascal.

Dr. Patel: No, but we always have to put up our step on the aparā-vidyā. Then you put up your step on the parā-vidyā. You can't jump over it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No. There is no question of jumping, but things should be realized as it is. Aparā... This is aparā. This is parā. So this is inferior; this is superior. That you have to admit.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may call, there are thieves, rogues and thieves. That's all.

Devotee (3): Exploiting.

Guru-kṛpā: Now they're dividing up the booty, fighting over it.

Prabhupāda: That story, that some thieves stolen. Now, when they are dividing, they say, "Please honestly, religious divide." The things are stolen, and now it is to be divided religiously. The foundation of the thing is stealing, and they are dividing in.... Now they are making laws, morality.

Devotee (1): They have a saying, "Honor among thieves."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) This has been named by father, kaitava, simply cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). The duplicity, hypocrisy, is there completely rejected.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These men are all in Asia, though. His father's biggest concern.... See, his father.... The company is divided into two: the American branch of Seagrams, and the overseas, which incorporates the whole world outside of America. His father is the president of overseas. So his father has all connections with all of the embassies overseas, all of the big corporations overseas.

Prabhupāda: So all these big, big men, let them have one set of books and study. It is not any expenditure for them, but if at their leisure hour they read some of the line—they are all intelligent men-they'll get ideas, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So through the influence of father, just try to introduce our books to these big men. It is not.... They may keep them in library, and at leisure hour, if they simply glance over the line, oh, it will be great success.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No one is starving. This is all propaganda. This propaganda.... You know in your country there are so many foundations. There is so many false organizations. They're under the name of India, they draw the money and take it. I've seen it. They have got arrangement with the trustees of the fund, and with some propaganda they draw money, and then they divide, the trustees and the organization. That's all. I've seen.

Devotee (1): Places like Africa, such as Biafra, where they have...

Prabhupāda: There are countries, there is, they are not opulent or affluent as you are. But that doesn't mean they're starving.

Hari-śauri: Well, they show so many places of children with malnutrition, and they say that so many thousands of people are dying every week in certain areas...

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: In science, the biologists teach that there are small animals, very small, called amoebas. And when they reproduce, they simply divide themselves into two; there is no sex, there is no father.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So two or three or four or five coming from the life. The amoeba is a life. Not that from any stone it is coming. The life is coming from life. But in a different way.

Rādhāvallabha: Previously the scientists used to say that they would put dirty laundry and rotten garbage in a box. Then a few weeks later they would find rats. So they said that rats are made from garbage. So then everyone—this was presented as a very laughable theory. And then the next theory that was presented as the actual one was that life came from chemicals.

Prabhupāda: First of all, life comes from rats (laughs). Every year, they are changing their theories.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Large or small, whatever; there was. But England had no soldiers. Whatever they did—fight—with the Indian soldiers, Gurkha and Sikh. Indian money, Indian soldiers, everything Indian—they were fighting. So when the Britishers saw that "The nationalism has come amongst the soldiers. It is not possible to maintain the Empire," they voluntarily gave indepen.... "Better give us good relations, and our business.... Make some agreement. But before departing, make them weak and divide Pakistan and India."

Rāmeśvara: That the British arranged.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are doing these things all in.... Wales.... What is called? Ireland, Germany. That is their business: divide and rule. Before leaving India, immediately they partitioned. Burma was Indian. Ceylon was Indian. So they had already divided.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So, here in this Bhagavad-gītā, it is ordered that the human society must be divided into four divisions, and they should cooperate for understanding God. Just like in our body there is the head, there is the arm, there is the belly and there is the leg. So they are all cooperating for maintaining the body. Although head is very important than the leg, but leg is also required. Simply head will not be able to keep the body in good condition.

Scheverman: Yes, our Saint Paul uses that very imagery in his Epistle to the Corinthians, Tenth Chapter. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is mentioned in this book. So head means first-class intelligent. A class of men.

Kern: How about people who aren't first-class intelligence, people, as you mentioned, the foolish. What message...?

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is plan. Now suppose if I say "Let us create some peaceful man," so who will disagree with this? I don't say everyone will be peaceful, but some of them can be trained up. Some of them can be trained up courageous in battle. We have to select by practical psychology what is the tendency. Similarly we should divide,...

Scheverman: In other words, you would utilize practical psychology in the selection of people for the various levels.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Kern: Well, you see, in our training for priests, our training for religious women and men, brothers, our people in this work would heartily agree in the need that there is for that training.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Honesty. So there are so many things. If we want to make the whole human society very peaceful and happy, then we have to divide the society into four classes. Not that everyone will be peaceful. That is not possible. But if we have an ideal class of men who is following austerity, peacefulness, purity, knowledge, people will learn: "Oh, here is the ideal class."

Kern: Mr. Gandhi had a great effect.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That training is lacking now.

Scheverman: I think all over the world it is lacking, it is needed, right.

Prabhupāda: All over the world, yes. Therefore.... In your country.... You are opulent in every respect. You should.... We are cooperating, we can cooperate. Let us start that "Here is a school or college..." Just like there is engineering college, technological.... Here is a college to learn how to become first-class men. Why not?

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Big, big lawyers, through this real estatement. I have got bitter experience. People go to real estate man, he has got, say, five thousand dollars, and he wants to purchase one hundred thousand worth property. And they'll say, "Yes. We shall arrange." He will, in such a way, implicate, that he will take this five thousand dollars, and it will be divided amongst them. He will not give anything.

Hari-śauri: We lost quite a bit of property in Detroit because of that lawyer of Ambarīṣa's. That lawyer of Ambarīṣa's, when they did the Detroit deal, they said they lost quite a bit of movable property because the lawyer did a deal with the real estate agent to take it away for himself. He got that boat very cheap, and other things also.

Prabhupāda: Lawyer is thief, medical man is thief.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "You have to train him in such a way that he cannot become corrupt."

Reporter: "What is that training process?" Prabhupāda: "That training is the varṇāśrama-dharma, a system of dividing society into four social and four spiritual orders according to people's natural quality. Divide the society according to quality and train people in the principle that everything belongs to God and should be used in the service of God. Then there really can be one nation under God."

Reporter: "But if society is divided into different groups, won't there be envy?"

Prabhupāda: "No, no. Just as in my body there are different parts that work together, so the society can have different parts working for the same goal. My hand is different from my leg, but when I tell the hand, 'Bring a glass of water,' the leg will help. The leg is required and the hand is required."

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "In this Sixteenth Chapter the Lord explains both the transcendental nature and its attendant qualities as well as the demoniac nature and its qualities. He also explains the advantages and disadvantages of these qualities. The word abhijātasya in reference to one born of transcendental qualities or godly tendencies is very significant. To beget a child in a godly atmosphere is known in the Vedic scriptures as garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. If the parents want a child in the godly qualities they should follow the ten principles of the human being. In Bhagavad-gītā we have studied also before that sex life for begetting a good child is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Sex life is not condemned provided the process is used in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness at least should not beget children like cats and dogs but should beget them so they may become Kṛṣṇa conscious after birth. That should be the advantage of children born of a mother or father absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The social institution known as varṇāśrama dharma, the institution dividing society into four divisions or castes, is not meant to divide human society according to birth. Such divisions are in terms of educational qualifications. They are to keep the society in a state of peace and prosperity. The qualities mentioned herein are explained as transcendental qualities meant for making a person progress in spiritual understanding so he can get liberated from the material world."

Prabhupāda: So where is that institution to train people to acquire these transcendental qualities? There is no such institution. We are attempting to qualify the man in transcendental qualities. This is the only institution. Otherwise, where it is? I don't think, throughout the whole world, there is any institution to train the students in transcendental qualities. Who cares for transcendental qualities? Go on.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question. Question number 18. "As the world is coming to be divided into just two classes, atheist and theist, is it not advisable for all religions to come together, and what positive steps can be taken in this direction?"

Prabhupāda: That is already taken, already explained. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The atheist class and theist class, they will exist always. This is material world. Even at home the father is atheist, Hiraṇyakaśipu, and the son is theist. So even at home the father and the son different. So that atheist class and theist class men will always exist in family, in community, in nation, in the... as you go on. But the theist class should take to the proposition of the Bhagavad-gītā and take shelter at his lotus feet, giving up so-called religious principles. That is oneness. Religion without conception of God, conception of God is humbug, bogus. Religion means to accept the order of God. So if you have no conception of God, if you do not know who is God, so there is no question of accepting His order. It is stated in the Vedic literature dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Find out this verse in the Sixth Canto. (break) ...Yamarāja's instruction.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, nonphysical, that doesn't mean it has no measurement. It has measurement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So measurement... Actually, Sadāputa calculated from how much the size is. Now from electron microscope, actually we can get an idea about the tip of the hair, how much it is. Now you divide it by one ten-thousandth part, so it (will) come out the size of the soul is about two angstroms, by calculation like that.

Prabhupāda: Two atoms?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, angstroms. Angstrom is the smallest scale that science can imagine. It is smaller even than the hydrogen atom. So actually it is atomic, it is very small in size.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
(SB 1.2.13)

Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect. The life is meant for, human life, for satisfying God.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So asuric life is very dangerous, and it is punishable. This is the position. So we should not become asuric. With all material opulences, just like in the Rāmāyaṇa, Rāvaṇa was called asura. He was materially very advanced. He made his capital made of gold, he was so advanced materially. But he did not care for Rāma, therefore he is called asura, rākṣasa. He was son of a brāhmaṇa, but he did not care for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He was a learned scholar, materially very intelligent, there was airplane, everything, but he did not care for Rāma, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore he is described as asura. So asuras are divided into four classes-duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, and māyayāpahṛta-jñāna.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is, because it was fight amongst the family members. So He was also related with the Kuru family. His aunt, Kuntī..., Kuntī was married to the Pāṇḍavas. So the family members may not think that He's partial, so He divided Himself into two. His soldiers one side, and He Himself one side. And Arjuna and Duryodhana were present, requesting Him to take their side. So Kṛṣṇa said that "We are all family members, so I divide Myself into two-My soldiers and Myself. So if you want, you take Me or My soldiers, as you like, but if you take Me, I say I'll not fight." So Duryodhana thought that "Kṛṣṇa will not fight and He's prepared to give me soldiers," he took the soldiers, and Arjuna said, "No, I want You." So this was the division. So in the beginning He said that "Even if I go to one side, I'll not fight." So how He could fight? Not that He was not a fighter, but because He promised that "The side which will accept, I'll not fight." But He did not say that "I'll not give you instruction of fighting." That is Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, my funds are being utilized in printing books, and expanding centers. My book trust is divided into two. Fifty percent for the printing the books and fifty percent for expanding centers.

Mr. Kallman: Any way I can help Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Kallman: You're going to have a big parade. My favorite.

Prabhupāda: You have got that store?

Mr. Kallman: Well, we're doing well wholesaling now, Prabhupāda. We sell to stores, department stores across the United States. We had to give up the store because we couldn't have, you know, timewise.

Prabhupāda: Hm. You are now making wholesaling.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that human life, the system of society should be divided... Just like you are journalist, so you are not motor mechanics. But there is necessity of motor mechanics also and the journalist also. Is it not?

Interviewer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And you are journalist, you are not expected to become a motor mechanic or a medical man. But your function is also required in the society. Similarly, the Vedic society was divided into different sections. That is called varṇāśrama-four varṇas, four āśramas. That is very scientific. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this system of division of society. It is perfect society. Therefore we are trying to introduce the varṇāśrama system, although it is very difficult nowadays. But if one becomes a devotee, which is above varṇāśrama-dharma, then the purpose is solved.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, I remember. He has got any questions?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Terry, do you have any questions?

Terry: I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes an atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. Is there some way that, the question is, what is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this prevailing, this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, to steal God's property is certainly intelligence. Very good intelligence. They must suffer. Must be punished. For this intelligence they must be punished. (men talking in background) So if they want to hear, these men...?

Hari-śauri: Their idea is that God may have made everything, but now it's for us to divide up and enjoy between us.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: God may have made everything, but now He has no connection with it now.

Prabhupāda: Why? He has made and He has no connection? What is this rascal theory? He has made everything and He has no connection.

Hari-śauri: No, He gives up the connection.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Why He gives up? He has made for His enjoyment. Why should He give up?

Hari-śauri: They say that He's made for our enjoyment and it's for us to divide and enjoy.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are rascal. Everything is done by somebody. Suppose if you organize one business. That is for your enjoyment. God has created anything, that is for His enjoyment. But you are sons of God, you can enjoy the property of the father as far as you require. Not more than, you cannot take more than that. Then other sons will claim and there will be fight. You live. You are son of God, you live at the expense of God. God has sufficient supply. But don't try to take more and stock. That is folly. You eat, you live very nicely. There is no prohibition. But you cannot take more than what you require. This is Bhāgavata communism. If you take more, you'll be punished. (break) ...our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). The Indians are trained up like that. He is happy in whatever condition of life he is placed. He doesn't protest. Any Indian villager, he'll say "God has given me this position, that's all right."

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: All right. I was thinking about the material platform that you mentioned last night, and I could not figure out how vast this platform is, what does it consist of, how do we define this platform. Is nature materialism? I mean, there are many things which are obvious, such as money, greed, etc. But how about nature, love?

Prabhupāda: We have got three platforms, generally. Material platform divided into two-gross and subtle, and there is spiritual platform. The body is material platform, divided into two, gross and subtle. And then if you are fortunate enough to come to the spiritual platform, then your life is successful. So the karmīs generally... Just like we see in the city, they are all busy, working very hard. They are on the gross material platform. And then next class, just like scientist, poet, philosopher, they are in the subtle platform. And above them, there are persons who are simply interested in spiritual understanding. They are on the spiritual platform. So according to the platform, there are thoughts and activities also. Your question is what is about these so many things. So first of all you have to understand in which platform he is situated. Then his activities are ascertained. If you are in the material platform, doing some business, making some profit, and if you bring there question—"What is this, use of material profit, this body is temporary, why I am..."—then your material activities will be diminished.(?)

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda: Prabhupāda, they say that the problem is that, the problem of the world is that humanity should be one, everyone should think of things as belonging to humanity and that religion and different governments have made humanity sectarian and divided up.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We are not such kind of religionist. We say that everything belongs to God and everyone is son of God. We don't say like that.

Dayānanda: But they say we don't believe in God, we believe in humanity.

Prabhupāda: What is the difference?

Dayānanda: The difference is that humanity is tangible, it's something we can understand, but God we cannot understand.

Prabhupāda: So we are also tangible, but we are more advanced. How you can, wherefrom the humanity came, the next question will be. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Wherefrom the human being came, hm? Do little.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: What you are doing practically? You are fighting only. Every ten years after you are fighting. What you have done?

Dayānanda: The fighting they say comes because humanity is divided into sectarian groups.

Prabhupāda: You have done it, you are also one of the members of the... How you can check it? It is your fault.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They want brotherhood amongst men. There is no way...

Prabhupāda: But without father. Brotherhood without father.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That's right, impractical.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Provided government gives us land. (break) ...in Bombay. (Hindi) Palm trees, within the palm trees, such buildings will not have this advantage. I think in this quarter our, this land is the best. This Juhu and Birawallah(?) Scheme, this land is the best. Twenty-thousand square yards full of palm trees, and we have made this garden. This advantage is not available by everyone. They divided the property, this side five lakhs and the vacant side nine lakhs. Fourteen. So anyway, we took both the sides. Taking this side, five lakhs, now this one building is worth five lakhs. There are six buildings. Very high. And we have got six buildings.

Dr. Patel: I put up a foundation of my new house here, it has cost me only foundation sixty thousand. Only twenty-one square feet. Twenty-one hundred square feet. Foundation has cost (indistinct).

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: This is the important point that my books are sold daily sixty thousand dollars all over the world. I have made the Trust so all the collections should be divided fifty percent for constructing temple and fifty percent for reprinting books. So we don't take a paisa profit. So far as an author, they are selling sixty thousand dollars. And even if I would have taken ten percent royalty then it would have been six thousand dollars. Six thousand dollars means...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Hundred and eighty thousand dollars a month.

Prabhupāda: No no no. Six thousand dollars means, say ten rupees.

Krishna Modi: Sixty thousand per day.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything is possible by Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. It is called therefore "inconceivable." You, we cannot conceive how it is done. Our intelligence is very little. We cannot conceive. Therefore we say, "Oh, this is all mythology." Because we cannot conceive of it. Whatever we cannot conceive we take it as mythology. Nothing is mythology. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. But they cannot understand what is inconceivable. Unless it is conceivable by them, they do not accept. That is their foolishness. We can see at night worms or flies so small Just like if you divide one grain of rice into one hundred divisions one division—such a small fly. They are independently walking, flying. Freedom. Now just imagine how their anatomic physiology is manufactured within that small (indistinct) of life. But he's exactly doing everything just like a big fly. How it is doing? Therefore I said in that, my interview.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And Kṛṣṇa is without. That is Kṛṣṇa, antar bahiḥ. Antar bahiḥ. Kuntī says in her prayers that "Kṛṣṇa, You are antar bahiḥ. Still, people cannot understand. You are... Without, You are existing, and within, You are..." Still, they are so rascal, they cannot understand. Antar bahiḥ. Kṛṣṇa is without, Kṛṣṇa is within, but they cannot see. That is their misfortune. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Kṛṣṇa is within the paramāṇu, atom. Can you find out Kṛṣṇa? He says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd... (BG 18.61). He is within your heart. Can you find out? Then where is your science? It is already indicated that He is here. Find out. How you can find out? The dimension of the soul is given, one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. The tip of the hair, you divide into ten thousand parts and that one part is the dimension of the soul. How can you find out? Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca jīvo bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140). Everything is written there. Now you find out the measurement. You cannot find out measurement of the tip of the hair. And you have to divide into ten thousand parts. Then the measurement of the soul will come. So how can you do it? But they are described in the śāstra. So go and see ārati. (end)

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Hm, taxation. So that is... You have created problem. When you transgress the laws of nature, this, there is shortage of supply. And the government, on this plea they will tax to mitigate your miseries. Actually they will not be able to mitigate your miseries, but on the plea of your miseries they will levy taxes and divide amongst themselves. So this is another way of punishment because the government is your government. Because you are rascal, so you elect some, another rascal. And they invent ways of rascaldom to mitigate your miseries. To avoid taxation means you become good man and you select your ruler, good men. Then there will be no taxation. (long pause)

Jagadīśa: Other problems?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: Other problems?

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: There's this conference which took place at Harvard, a symposium headed by Dr. Harvey Cox who is very important and a very famous theologian in America. Some of the things they said are very nice. Especially there's some quote from the Bible that gives it... This is actually stated by this Mr. Cox, or Dr. Cox, a very important man. He gives a quote from the Bible. "Jesus withdrew with his disciples to the sea and the great multitude from Galilee followed him. And many who had diseases pressed in upon him to touch him. And he went up into the hills and called to him those whom he desired and they came to him. And he appointed twelve to be with him and he sent them out to preach. And then he came to his home town and the crowd came together, so many of them that they could not even eat. And when his family heard about this they went out to seize him for they said, 'He is besides himself.' And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He is possessed by Beelzebub and by the Prince of Demons.' And Jesus said to them, 'If the house is divided against itself, that house will fall. It surely will not be able to stand.' And then his mother and his brothers came and standing outside the house where he was, they sent a message in to him calling him. And the crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, 'Your mother and your brothers are outside and they are asking for you.' And Jesus replied, 'Who are my mother and my brothers?' And looking around on those who sat about him, he said, 'Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of God is my brother and my sister, and my mother."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And now, in the Sixth Chapter there are forty-seven verses. So divide forty-seven with seven.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's seven.

Hari-śauri: Seven.

Jagadīśa: Almost seven.

Hari-śauri: You want to do like seven verses a day?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, we can do seven verses a day.

Prabhupāda: Forty-seven verses should be divided by seven. So daily seven verses, average, one class.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One hour class?

Jagadīśa: No, you said three hours a day.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our, one of the mission is to reestablish the division of the society according to...

Dr. Patel: But, sir, even without redividing them, nature has divided it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, nature has divided, but we are taking the post or some position without qualification. That must be rectified.

Dr. Patel: That, what you say, that we should not have come in possession of the power in government, is a fact. They have no that quality of governing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? There is no kṣatriyas.

Dr. Patel: They... You see, they govern for themselves, and not for people.

Prabhupāda: There is no brāhmaṇa in the society.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Harassment.

Girirāja: Oh, yes, completely. Their whole office, the papers are piled to the ceiling and people just waste hours (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: If there is ceiling, then we can divide the land amongst ourselves.

Girirāja: But that also they have blocked in the sense that in order to sell now that the ceiling is there, in order to sell your land you have to get another N.O.C. to sell it.

Prabhupāda: Then, I cannot sell, I cannot use it.

Girirāja: That's what I'm saying. They make it impossible. They say they want the country to develop quickly but they make it impossible to develop.

Prabhupāda: Today I think fasting.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Actually India is poor. When we give food, how voraciously they eat. They cannot eat. They have no resources to eat nicely at home. That's a fact. Half-fed. At least half-fed. In the villages they are not fully fed. They have no sufficient clothing, no food, that's all. The rascal politicians, realizing heavy tax, and that is divided amongst them. It is not going to the poor. They are imitating Western way of life. They have got huge expenditure. So whatever money is coming, they are spending for their luxury, and poor men... The Gandhi's movement, boycott British goods, but they took it: "Boycott British goods and take our goods." So the consumer goods were the same. Gandhi helped to stop the British capitalist in favor of the Indian capitalist. The consumer remained in the same position, rather, worse. The foreigners, they are thinking that "These people are poor. They cannot pay more to me." And these rascals, Indian capitalists, in the name of nationalism, Birlas and others, they exploit.

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Rāmeśvara: Number two was Los Angeles with $87,000. Number three was Berkeley with $85,000. Number four was San Diego, $62,000. Caracas, 60,000, Brazil and England tied-$48,000. Germany 33,000; Denver 32,000; and Pittsburgh 30,000. And the medium temples weren't so outstanding, but the small temple, Houston, little Houston, $25,000. They only have about twelve men. I cannot understand how hard they worked to do this, very hard. Plus it shows Gurukṛpa's donation, ISKCON food relief donation. Then the outstanding zones for the month. Number one is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, with $200,000. Number two was my zone. Actually it's your zone, but you've made me manage it a little. $182,000, very close to beating him. (Prabhupāda chuckles) Actually I have noticed that if the West Coast was not divided this year into two zones... Formerly it was just one zone. All Berkeley, it was one zone. Now it is two zones. So I noticed that if it had not been divided, then every month the West Coast would have been number one.

Prabhupāda: Combined together.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Then Hṛdayānanda was number three with $155,000. That is very good for Latin America.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Rāmeśvara: So the next thing is the entire year, the ratings for the whole year. So number one for zones is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa-$1,000,000 for the whole year. Number two was the area that I have: Los Angeles, Denver and San Diego-$762,000. Number three is Balavanta-$476,000. And number four was the other half of the West Coast-$464,000. You can see that if you put the West Coast as one it would have been $1,200,000 to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's $1,000,000. But anyway, it's been divided, so he has won. So he's also... New York temple is number one among temples, and his zone is number one among zones. So he has set the whole standard for the whole movement in book distribution.

Prabhupāda: All brahmacārī and sannyāsī.

Morning Walk Excerpt -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Durbhikṣa. Anāvṛstya durbhikṣā kara-pīḍitaḥ (SB 12.2.9). There will be no rainfall, scarcity of food, and government will tax. Government will contribute twenty-five crores, and they will tax three hundred crores on this beach.(?) And before giving twenty-five crores, the other three hundred crores they will divide amongst themselves. (chuckles) That's all. (break)

(in a car driving through traffic)

Rāmeśvara: ...two demons, she was feeling thirst. So Lord Śiva with the end of his trident created this hole. And then he sent his bull carrier to gather waters from all the sacred rivers in the universe. An then Lord Brahmā came...

Prabhupāda: Bindu-sarovara. Drop by drop. Bindu means drop. So the sarovara came into existence by contribution from all rivers. (break) Bhuvaneśvara will help me. I have got little hint.

Gargamuni: Maybe we should build a permanent house for Your Divine Grace also.

Prabhupāda: We shall build there, in our place.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Money is the only aim. And they will talk all nonsense and make experiment, especially in the Western countries. Here also they have got now money-making sight. Lawyers also. Any... I have seen in our relatives, big, big rich men. The brothers may sit down and make some... My father-in-law did that. They sat down, and they were two brothers, and divided his property and got two days. But those who are rascals, they go to lawyer and continually meeting—his man, his man. In this way the whole property is sold. And they get out with this. That's all. I have seen so many cases. Then the property division means there is nothing to divide. Everything is sold, and the money was taken by the lawyers as their fees. I have seen so many cases. These real estate men? Real estate? They also. So many times they complicated our men. You know that?

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: When the Britishers saw, "Now the soldiers are coming in national movement. There is no hope. Better break this and go peacefully so that our business may not be disturbed, our relation may not be disturbed. Make a Commonwealth and so on, so on, hodgepodge. And do as much harm as possible dividing Pakistan and Hindustan, all the food in Pakistan, East Bengal and West Pakistan, gehun(?) and rice." And this Hindustan in starvation, because they were getting gehun(?) from Punjab and rice from East Bengal, and that is stopped. They very clever. Greatest harm they did. And in politics made in such a way that these two people, Hindustan and Pakistan, always fight. So they have gained. You have not gained. Gandhi wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. They made so bitter relationship that they will perpetually fight. That is Gandhi's qualification. They are so great diplomats that "This man wants Hindu-Muslim unity, so make such arrangement that this... They fight will continuous.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: "This man wants Hindu-Muslim unity, so make such arrangement that this... They fight will continuous. And give all the food to the Pakistani, so they will starve. Let them eat coal." The Hindustan has got coal mine. "So they will suffer for industrial supply, and they will suffer for food. And they will fight." British diplomats are very clever. Gandhi even offered that "Don't divide India. You better give it to Jhinna." But this commission, this Patita Lalan(?). "No, no," said, "It is... Otherwise, there will be conflagration of always fight. Let it be settled." Gandhi went to this point, that "If you think that without division India will be chaos, so you better give it to Jhinna in the hand. Don't give it to me." But they wanted division.

Guest (1): That is a British policy.

Prabhupāda: They wanted this division.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: They wanted this division.

Pradyumna: Gandhi was very much against division.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Division means that what remains India? Formerly India was India, Burma, Ceylon. They never divided, divided. They wanted that "Divide, divide, divide, and let this rascal have a small plot of land."

Guest (1): No, even they made it, all the states, independent.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to make their choice: "You can join either Pakistan or India."

Guest (1): Or remain independent also.

Prabhupāda: They wanted to make nil India. The Hyderabad state was given choice. Kashmir was given choice, whichever, Hindustan or Pakistan. That is still going on, the Kashmir.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Guest (1): Even in Orissa, small states just like Mariwan(?) and Venkana(?), they were independent before that time, till Sardar Patel(?) came in and asked them to...

Prabhupāda: Simply divide, divide, divide. Divide and rule, and divide and break. They have done always like that.

Guest (1): That proviso was the written rule. They made completely... Without that they cannot do it actually. They made such a big empire, they cannot do actually without divide-and-rule policy.

Prabhupāda: Bheda, bheda, bheda policy. This is called sandhyaṁ bheda. There are four policies.

Guest (1): That is Cāṇakya's nīti also.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If I require, I'll take. So Gandhi discovered, and the discovery was there Surendranath Ban... That they're exploiting us, so noncooperate. They are ruling over us by our cooperation, so let us noncooperate." But that is a foolish policy. Poverty-stricken country, how they can noncooperate? That was not successful, but this program, Subhash Bose's tit-for-tat, military, that was successful. They're keeping our men as soldiers and police, and by their strength they're ruling over India. And Subhash Bose made a plan—the soldiers and police will noncooperate. They'll join his INA. And when they began to join Indian National Army, these intelligent Britishers could understand, "Now it is no more possible. With whose cooperation, we shall kick?" Then they made a friendly settlement. Friendly means "Divide it so that they'll perpetually fight, and let us go."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like that division was simply spiteful.

Prabhupāda: That is politics.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Gain means they are now finished. They have gained this. They have no prestige, no money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was their gain from dividing India and Pakistan?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that, that is enviousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Just spiteful enviousness.

Prabhupāda: Enviousness. Just like, you like..., who has done something wrong to you, you like to do some wrong, harm.

Hari-śauri: That was Churchill? Churchill's policy?

Prabhupāda: At that time not Churchill. Attlee, Attlee was Prime Minister.

Brahmānanda: In Africa, Nehru, he was instructing the African leaders also how to get...

Prabhupāda: Freedom.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: So nothing material can divide the soul, but spiritual, when it enters the spiritual world, then it is dividing.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of dividing

Acyutānanda: Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: Sanātana. That is Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). Sanātana means eternally they are divided. And Kṛṣṇa says further in the Second Chapter that...

Hari-śauri: Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Nothing of the... This of should be strictly forbidden.

Rādhā-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.

Prabhupāda: They can divide the synonyms. That's all.

Rādhā-vallabha: Synonyms. So even...

Prabhupāda: That is his tendency, to correct. That's very bad. He should not do that.

Rādhā-vallabha: So I'll just forget this, then.

Prabhupāda: The system is: whatever authority has done, even there is mistake, it should be accepted.

Rādhā-vallabha: Oh.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Individual. Where there is question of mixing? Śaṅkarācārya's mistake is that the spirit is a mixture, and in māyā state, they're divided. Is it not? So when the division is finished, then it is spirit. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. He says in the past we are individual, at present we are individual, and in future we shall continue to be individual.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Seems that we have a good field in medicine, speaking with doctors. It's very interesting. And because they deal with life, so my first question is "What is life?" I just ask them, "What is your concept of life?" And they become very...

Prabhupāda: Concept of life is clear in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is also one of the elements, but superior element. The gross earth, water, air, fire, ether, even mind, intelligence, ego, they are inferior. And there is another superior item. That is living entity. It is clearly said. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5).

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Where is our Bhagavān dāsa?

Satsvarūpa: Starting with South America... South America's responsibilities would be divided between Pañcadraviḍa Swami and Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja like this: Pañcadraviḍa would be responsible for the temples in Mexico and Central America, Guyana, Santo Domingo and Trinidad. And he will also work as required in the Los Angeles Spanish BBT office. And Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja will retain direct responsibility for Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Chile and Ecuador, and also he was going to take on co-GBC responsibilities in Spain and Portugal, which are the same language as the books he's printing in, along with Bhagavān, in whose zone that is, Spain and Portugal in Europe, for spreading Spanish book distribution.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's very good. (laughter) I asked him to do this last year. Very good.

Satsvarūpa: India was broadly divided, the same as it is now, of Gopāla Kṛṣṇa to do the north and west, Gargamuni Mahārāja to do the east-Calcutta, Māyāpura. And in that connection we resolved that Śatadhanya Mahārāja should take responsibility for being president of Calcutta and Panihati.

Prabhupāda: Why two?

Gargamuni: Panihati is very near to...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Panihati he can take, but why Calcutta?

Gargamuni: Because for maintenance sake, Panihati and Calcutta is the same place for collecting funds.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Next year at the Māyāpura festival, separate but equal facilities will be arranged for the women. It was felt that they weren't equal this year, that perhaps next year the new building could be divided in half, that they could have the same type of facility but kept separate.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Now we have got enough place.

Jayapatākā: There's not adequate room. There's supposed to be a new building.

Satsvarūpa: Resolution about restaurants, that they may be named either Hare Kṛṣṇa restaurant or Govinda's restaurant. Then we passed a resolution about attendance at the temple functions. All GBC members and temple presidents are responsible to see that all devotees in their zone attend the morning and evening program except when there is alternate bona fide preaching in the evening, like if there's some book distribution in the evening. Otherwise everyone must go to the morning and evening.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Where you are going? And this is their scientific advancement. Competition with dog. Otherwise what they have done? The ant hill, and four-legged wheel. That's all. Four wheel legs. This is animal civilization. Without knowing the aim of life, living in big, big skyscraper building, "I am king." And running like dogs with four wheel car, Mercedes. This is dog civilization. It is not human civilization. Human civilization begins when they take Kṛṣṇa's instructions: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Divide the whole human society into four divisions and let them cooperatively act for the benefit of God. That is civilization. There civilization begins. Otherwise, what is the difference between dog and the human being? There is no difference. The leaders are teaching, "Feel like Indians." As a dog is feeling, "I am bulldog." This is our leaders. (Hindi)

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Fish, ninety-nine percent people take fish in Bengal. Only few, they do not. When there is some, what is called, ceremony, fish must be there. (break) And fish is available. Now Bengal is divided. Otherwise, immense fish in Bengal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the east side of Bengal. And rice was coming from there too.

Prabhupāda: So their staple food is rice and fish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: East Bengal is very wealthy from that point of view. Rice.

Prabhupāda: Pakistan was rich only on account of East Bengal. The pān. Practically it supplies pān to all over India. And betel nut.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a place that we have not...

Prabhupāda: And milk also produced in very large quantity. East Bengal is rich in vegetables, milk, fish. (end)

Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That oneness is on the spiritual platform. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). That is another thing. But so long you have got a bodily concept of life, you must divide: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That is wanted. Just like in my body there is division. There is head. There is hand. There is leg. There is belly. So they have got different activities. The head is important. If you cut the head, then whole thing is finished.

Indian man (3): We need the substratum because of which we identify with the processes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You have joined together to defeat me. Why don't you preach jointly? What do you want? That I shall also join and we shall jointly preach. Do this. You are divided amongst yourselves, and you have joined together to defeat me." Śrīdhara Mahārāja is the leader.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of that group.

Prabhupāda: Mādhava Mahārāja also

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mādhava Mahārāja is.

Prabhupāda: For the last forty years they're fighting in the courts. They indirectly wanted me also to join them. "He has got money. If he joins, then our monetary, financial help will be there." That is their...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīdhara Mahārāja. I remember a letter they wrote you in Los Angeles in 1969. You replied them, "Yes, I will join, but since I have preached in eleven-twelfths of the world, eleven of my men will be representatives, and you can put one."

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pañcama-skandha, yes.

Indian Astronomer: There we find there about the Priyavrata. Priyavrata's sons, they divided the world...

Prabhupāda: No, persons we are not very much concerned. We are... Immediately we want the diagram how to fix it up so that people can see, "This is the situation." So you make this diagram.

Indian Astronomer: It is first attempt to give in picture the ideas of Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we... We are... We have got very good scheme so that people from the world will come to see the Vedic idea of planetary system. This is the ambition. So you kindly help us.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But as soon as there is restriction, that means, "Don't do it." Otherwise naturally they have got sex desire. What is the use of giving shastric injunction? That means to control him. The meat-eating... So everyone has got tendency to eat meat, but why śāstra should agree? Restriction means stop. The government's opening liquor shop—so much restriction in a heavy duty. The government charges excise duty. The liquor is produced, utmost, one rupee, eight annas, per gallon. This I know. I know. And government charges excise duty, sixty rupees. So it becomes sixty-one rupees spoiled. Then they have got to make profit. Huge profit government... They haven't got to do anything. The liquor manufacturer, he has to maintain the establishment, and everything he has to do. But when the actual liquor comes, it is there. This is the working system. The excise inspector is there. So unless the... When he takes liquor out of stock, that excise inspector shall come. He has his own key, just like bank, such custody. So in this way... And you have to pay duty first. Suppose stock is there, liquor, hundred gallons, say, thousand gallons. If you want to take ten gallons, so the excise inspector will see whether you have paid duty for hundred gallons. Then you'll be allowed to. So government, for nothing, has... They make huge profit. This is Kali-yuga government. They think that "To condone these are very common practice. Let them be drunk. Let them drink." They encourage them. And government means big ministers, secretaries. They get the profit and divide amongst themselves. So who cares for public? Similarly cloth.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So I am not this combination of stool, bone, skin, blood. But people are taking that. When they are diseased, they take care of the body. Of course, it is not that we should not take care. But that is superficial. Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha. So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system. Otherwise it is not human civilization. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). This system should be followed. Then, gradually, one has to come to the spiritual. Chaotic society cannot help us. There must be systematic social order: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, cātur-varṇyam, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa is not voluntary, but it is compulsory. At the last stage one must take sannyāsa. After fiftieth year one must take to vānaprastha, vanaṁ vrajet.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Deha-bhājām. This is also very significant. There are innumerable living entities. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140). These jīvas, living entities, part and parcel of God, anantyāya kalpate. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? The sunshine, this is very atomic parts of the sun brightness. They are individual, but they are combined. We see one shining. So similarly, God is compared with the sun, and we are atomic particles of God, the same thing in a very small... Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). You take the tip of the hair and divide it into ten thousand parts, and that one part is the formation of the jīva.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: USA.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we have three hundred rooms. It would fetch... If it was divided up as an all-apartment building, it would make very..., lot of money. To run a building like that... It's very prestigious. Even though it's not a new building, still, it is prestigious. People are impressed. Many Indian people come there from India at night. A number of officials came, and they were all very... They said, "Oh, we didn't know you had such a building like this." They said like that. They were very impressed. And they liked the... They were very much impressed with the temple room and the restaurant and the general size of the building. Those three features are impressive. The restaurant they're very impressed by, pure vegetarian prasādam served with a restaurant atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: And so palatable.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So life is divided into two, that body and the soul. Actually the soul requires satisfaction. So unless the soul approaches Adhokṣaja-adhokṣaja means beyond the sense perception of bodily understanding—there is no possibility. So we can start later this chapter. Next verse?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Translation?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Next verse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Translation.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Next verse.

Showing of Planetary Sketches -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The airplane goes about eight miles. Five thousand feet equals one mile. And they go forty thousand. So how much is forty thousand? Eight miles.

Devotee (1): Forty thousand feet divided by five means approximately eight miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Airplane goes eight miles high, and this Meru Mandapa(?) is 800,000 total, a hundred thousand yojanas, one lakh of yojanas. So this is very high, nearly 600,000 miles high. An airplane only goes five miles.

Devotee (1): Eight miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have no idea about distances.

Bhakti-Prema: If we rise above, man, six thousand miles, then we will arrive at sun planet.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is the island?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There.

Yaśodā-nandana: The islands are surrounding the oceans. It goes in a circle. There's a whole ocean surrounding one island. And each island is divided by seven mountains and seven rivers, and the main sons of Mahārāja Priyavrata, they also have sons, and each one of those seven divisions are being ruled by the seven grandsons of Mahārāja Priyavrata too.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Priyavrata had seven children on seven islands, and each one of them had seven children. So each son of Priyavrata divided his island in seven parts, and it was given to one of the grandsons of Priyavrata. We could not show that because it's so small. This is drawn exactly to scale. In order to include all of the Bhū-maṇḍala we had to make everything up very small because, as you'll see, most of Bhū-maṇḍala is made of Loka-varṣa and Lokāloka mountain. Everything else is very small compared to those two.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what is the explanation?

Bhakti-prema: And bring this from there and there, there are nine islands. From each, divided one between (indistinct). They say that it's 8,000 miles. (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And how high is the Himalayan Mountains?

Bhakti-prema: Eighty thousand miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten thousand yojanas, 80,000 miles. Here it says that "The highest mountain is Mount Everest, 29,000 feet." Not very high. That's about six miles. And we are saying 80,000 miles. So we want to know where is that. How high is Govardhana supposed to be?

Bhakti-prema: Govardhana (indistinct). Govardhana mountain is sinking.

Prabhupāda: Sinking.

Room Conversations -- July 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhavānan..., er, Bhagavān. And he can do also. Harikeśa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Harikeśa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: And... Five, six men, you divide who is nearest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is nearest. So persons wouldn't have to write to Your Divine Grace. They could write directly to that person?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually they are initiating the person on Your Divine Grace's behalf. Those persons who are initiated are still your...

Prabhupāda: Second initiation we shall think over, second initiation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is for first initiation, okay. And for second initiation, for the time being they should...

Room Conversation -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And money, spend for Kṛṣṇa—for Kṛṣṇa's palace, for Kṛṣṇa's temple, for Kṛṣṇa's worship, gorgeous, as gorgeously as... Not for false... This is the human civilization. And to organize this, varṇāśrama will help you to divide the society—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—as there is division in the body. That will help. Don't waste human form of body for sense gratification. I wanted to introduce this. Now I have given you ideas. You can do it. You are all intelligent. For Caitanya Mahāprabhu's para-upakāra... So you do good to others. Not exploit others. Any human being who has been bestowed by this body has the capacity to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them chance and make situation favorable. Is that clear?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, it's clear, Prabhupāda. You have made everything very clear.

Prabhupāda: Passed stool.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. Once and for all. It's a permanent installation of a permanent line. The yearly electricity bill he'll pay. That's his business. Then he seems to want to repay this amount that we're giving from the postal receipts. So I have no objection. If he repays, then we'll simply follow the original scheme and divide it up accordingly. Or he can divide it up. I don't know why he wants to pay it back. I don't know. I've explained to him that it's a donation. But anyway, it's better he pays it back, and then we can give it to each of the persons involved. I don't think there's any need of taking any loan agreement or anything, is there? Is there any need?

Prabhupāda: I don't think so.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ektu bhauma bhauma deśa tabu raṅge bara.(?) Explain this.

Bhakti-caru: That "Bengal has been divided into so many different parts, but still it's full of rasas and humor."

Prabhupāda: Bengali people are easy-going. So therefore they can manufacture all these humors. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would your Guru Mahārāja tell a lot of Bengali proverbs, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. I learned from him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You once said that he liked you very much, 'cause you were also a Calcutta boy, Calcutta born. (break)

Prabhupāda: Sohar(?) has money.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, per month, it would be about nine thousand rupees a month.

Prabhupāda: No, more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One lakh, five thousand, divided by twelve—a little less than ten thousand a month.

Prabhupāda: So you can pay that ten thousand month? Huh? Bhavānanda?

Bhavānanda: Yes. Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Do it very conscientiously.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We'll begin with... We'll already have one lakh. So the first year we've already got, to begin with, one lakh of rupees. If you like that idea, to begin with that.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I think it's better for Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. Because for general, we have ISKCON. For general, we have the... I'll explain, Śrīla Prabhupāda. For general, the GBC has formed the Māyāpura-Vṛndāvana Committee. That is more or less... Your original name of it was Māyāpura-Vṛndāvana Trust. So we've formed a Māyāpura-Vṛndāvana Committee made up of the following seven people: Jayapatākā Mahārāja, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu, Girirāja, myself, Rāmeśvara, and Gurukṛpā Mahārāja and Ātreya Ṛṣi. so these seven meet, and they divide up the money that comes from all the interest of the fixed deposits in India, and they will recommend how that money should be spent. Once a year they will consider at Māyāpura all the different requests from Bhuvaneśvara, from Māyāpura, from Bombay, from Vṛndāvana, everywhere, and they will divide up the interest accordingly. So the Bhaktivedanta Charity Trust could be simply for the Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi area. That was my idea.

Prabhupāda: Whichever suitable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Which is suitable.

Page Title:Divide (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:08 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=77, Let=0
No. of Quotes:77