Differentiation (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"differential" |"differentiate" |"differentiated" |"differentiates" |"differentiating" |"differentiation" |"differentiations"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Vedic states, Oṁ. So at least we can understand from your Bible, that God said, "Let there be creation." So this is sound, and there is creation. God and His sound is non-different, absolute. I say, "Mr. Ginsberg," this sound and I, a little difference, but God is non-different from His energy, nitya... How it is called? Śakti śaktimator abhedhaḥ. Śakti, energy and śakti-mat, the energetic. They are non-different. Just like fire and heat, they are non-different, but heat is not fire. You can not differentiate heat from fire, or fire from heat. But fire is not heat.

Allen Ginsberg: Well the sounds, the sound kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes, is non-different from Kṛṣṇa.

Allen Ginsberg: ...is not different from Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore, this sound kṛṣṇa...

Allen Ginsberg: Under all circumstances?

Prabhupāda: Yes, all, all circumstances, but it is the question of my appreciation, or my realization. That will depend on my purity. Otherwise this Kṛṣṇa sound and Kṛṣṇa, non-different. Therefore if we vibrate sound Kṛṣṇa, then I am immediately in contact with Kṛṣṇa, and if Kṛṣṇa is whole spirit, then immediately I become spiritualized. Just like if you touch electricity, immediately you're electrified. And the more you become electrified, more you become Kṛṣṇized.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Any religion. Any religion. If he's serious about religion. If he takes the religion as a scapegoat, that is different thing. If he wants to understand religion and if he takes seriously to religion, then he will understand. We want serious persons. Now, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, religion means creation of the laws of God. Dharmaṁ tu sakṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Laws of God. Who will deny it? Who will deny it? Any religion, Christian, Muhammadan or any. Who can deny that religion is the laws of God? Simple explanation. If you ask what is meant by religion, religion is laws of God. That's all. And if you want to know what is God, that is also replied. "The original source of everything." So one should try to understand in this way. But if one wants to remain in his compact ideas and does not want to go further, then it is very difficult. He should be open-minded and appreciating. Then everything is all right. We say, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, it is not that you are necessarily to chant Kṛṣṇa, but if you have no suitable name, then chant Kṛṣṇa. Why do you make differentiate. Every name is the same.

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot say that, that the temperature of the sun and the temperature of the sunshine is the same.

Guest (2): No. But just because you have two different kinds of energies, why do you have to differentiate them? Essentially what he was trying to say...

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. That is intelligence. One energy is acting as cooling, and the same energy is acting as heating. Why do you say it is heat and it is cool?

Guest (3): It's all the same thing. Heat and cool is the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Why do you say the same thing? It is not the same thing.

Guest (2): Of course, it is the same thing.

Guest (3): Everything is "it." It's all it.

Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Cold is cold, heat is heat. Only it is acting. You are talking on the material platform. You are not spiritual. You don't talk nonsense. (laughter) No. We have got enough time.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Absence, that I'm saying. It is also indirectly, the cause is the light.

Dr. Weir: No, because your illustration you gave of the light of the sun falling on one side and making that light, on the other side dark. But you can also have a body which is in the complete absence of any light anyway so there won't be any differentiation.

Prabhupāda: No. There is light. The light is now visible. Light is there. Just like we say that our relationship with God is there. One is conscious. Another is unconscious. Otherwise God consciousness is there. Therefore any process that awakens that consciousness, that is perfect process. The consciousness is there. That is stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, an authorized book. Nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti.... This God consciousness is not something artificial. The God consciousness is there. Just like these European boys and girls, they're now devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Not that artificially we have imposed this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness was there, by under certain process of treatment that has been awakened.

Dr. Weir: That's why I think it's better to accept that as it is rather than make analogies which are dangerous.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Do you differentiate, as you would do, it's only a matter of attempting to comprehend the differences (indistinct) of things, the difference between thinking and feeling as rational functions?

Prabhupāda: That is the function of the mind, thinking, feeling and willing. Psychological activity.

Dr. Weir: Do you differentiate them separately?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Dr. Weir: And intuition as well?

Prabhupāda: Saṅkalpa, vikalpa. This is, in Sanskrit it is called saṅkalpa, vikalpa or accepting and rejecting. That is mind's function. I think something and again I reject it.

Dr. Weir: Well, you also react too.

Prabhupāda: You can say what you like but the function of the mind is flickering. Just like when Arjuna was advised by Kṛṣṇa to train the mind by meditation, by yoga system. He said that "Kṛṣṇa, it is very difficult for me." Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham (BG 6.34). My mind is very, I mean to say, agitated.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Gaurachand Gosvami At the Radha-Damodara Temple (Mostly Bengali) -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:

Indian man (2): He has not accepted. This point also he has raised, this man.

Prabhupāda: So this difference of opinion may be there, but he is also one of the..., what is called? Differentiate? This gentleman who has...

Indian man (2): Kṛṣṇa Caitanya dāsa.

Prabhupāda: So differences are there, there will be always. So how one's opinion should be taken as...

Indian man (2): Yes. No, but you see, this kind of writing does create sort of a... It does give rise to...

Prabhupāda: So Vṛndāvana is the breeding ground for such things.

Indian man (2): No, it's not Vṛndāvana. That man doesn't live here, he lives in Calcutta. The book was brought here. It was sent by him to some people, and one copy was directed to me also. Five copies were sent here, and I have the honor to be the recipient of one of them. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: How big it is?

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it doesn't, because they want to study. For example, the brain of the advanced scientist, they want to study how his brain is different from ordinary people. So they can do some studies, research, on different bodies, parts of the bodies, just to differentiate why this body is different from the so many bodies.

Prabhupāda: There is differentiation. That's a fact. Differentiation, that is visible because (indistinct) more nicely than me, you must have more brain. But the brain is not acting independently. That they do not know. They take brain, they are going to study—that is another foolishness, another rascaldom. Still they are passing on as scientists. Just like ordinary machine and a complicated machine. The machine has to be worked by somebody. Not that because it is highly developed valuable machine it works automatically. This simple thing these rascals they do not understand. You may have got a very big nice machine, I may not have. But either good machine or bad machine, it must be worked by you or by me. Where is that me and you? And they are trying to understand the machine itself only. Such rascaldom.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why they...

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: We are chanting always the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. These have got special significance because Kṛṣṇa is absolute. There is no difference between Him and His name. Here, just like this milk substance and the milk name is different. If I want to take milk, simply if I go on chanting "milk" and "milk," that will not satisfy. I must have the substance milk. But in the spiritual world the Absolute has no differentiation between His name, ...between His name, between His quality, form, entourage. They are the same. So this chanting of holy name means that directly associating with Kṛṣṇa. Directly associating with Kṛṣṇa.

Ambassador: It's a constant reminder to yourselves of the...

Prabhupāda: ...of my relationship with Kṛṣṇa.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is it.

Ambassador: Oh, that's very... I'm very much impressed with the sincerity of these American...

Prabhupāda: As soon as one understands this science, he would accept immediately.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The... In the first time when learn about the difference between the living and the nonliving, this is one of the very popular questions when we start biology: What is the difference between living and the nonliving? So they answer there are several points to differentiate between the two. And they say the living can move and the nonliving cannot grow or cannot move.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the living can reproduce like themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The nonliving is not.

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they never talk about the soul, the nature of the soul, the consciousness existing within the living.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometime, sometimes they try to relate science and the religion, some scientists, and they make a differentiation. They say religion...

Prabhupāda: No, religion, when you come to the real cause of everything, then you come to religion. Religion is the science of sciences. Because you are trying to find out the original cause, and as soon you come to the original cause, He is God, original cause. So as soon as you come to God, then there is religion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And that, that definition of differentiation is that they say religion deals with the value of life, the moral and ethics... And on the other hand...

Prabhupāda: Religion, religion is the source of moral and ethics. Because religion means to come to the perfectional point. So as soon as there is perfection, moral and ethics are already there. So called moral ethics, that is artificial. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. If one is not a devotee of the Lord, his morality has no value. That is artificial. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Mahad-guṇāḥ, high qualities, moral, ethics, they are high qualities. So Bhāgavata says that unless one is devotee of God, he cannot have high qualities. That is artificial.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's so strange. When I read that book. He defines the difference between the living and the non-living by a term called teleonomy. I tried to find out in the dictionary and I couldn't find any word like that. But I understood that what he meant was...

Prabhupāda: Hyerpolosvel. (Prabhupāda's mythical scientific word) (laughter)

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: He invents his own word jugglery.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was trying to present the difference between organic beings and the non-organic beings. So he goes in such a round about fashion just to differentiate.

Prabhupāda: Petitio principii. This logic is called petitio principii. He has to prove something, but he is taking his premises from that something. (end)

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Effulgence. Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Spiritual world. And that is also some, some, somewhat nirviśeṣa. And then, after crossing that, the Śiva is on the other, higher side or he is in lower side. That is differentiation...

Prabhupāda: Śiva is...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Differentiation on two sides is Śiva. This side also, Master of Devī, and this side also. He is searching after something and when the differentiated world ends in Brahmaloka, there also Śiva is devotee. This side, Śiva is a yogī. He's searching after. And then, there, he's going to meet Nārāyaṇa, to face (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Both sides, he's a devotee.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This side, he's not such a devotee. But that is pure devotee on the other side, Vaikuṇṭha.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Sadāśiva.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sadāśiva, Mahā-Viṣṇu. On the other side, he's a devotee. Vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ.

Prabhupāda: Mahā-Viṣṇu and Sadāśiva, the same.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Uncle, uncle. In Back to Godhead, you have seen it. Maybe.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So much clear conception in such a small period of time, that they have acquired. This is a marvelous thing. The Dāmodara also, ISKCON has said in such a way, this Dāmodara Svarūpa and the Paṇḍita Dāmodara. Generally, these are for public, but minute reader only can differentiate.

Prabhupāda: Dāmodara. Svarūpa Dāmodara and Dāmodara Paṇḍita.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Dāmodara Paṇḍita. Two different, but one is Lalitā. Another is a mañjarī of Candrāvalī, Paṇḍita Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: Opposite party.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Opposite party. And this is the leader of this party, and he...

Prabhupāda: How they came together? Caitanyākhyāṁ prakaṭam adhunā.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Bon Mahārāja once misplaced that very...

Prabhupāda: In which book?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In this...

Prabhupāda: Eh? In which book. Or he spoke in a speech or what?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: A child is innocent, and his father is ignorant. His father may be knowing something, and purposely does not take. That is ignorance. Or he thinks that "What is the use of taking it?" That is ignorance. And innocent, he does not know anything. Actually, practically, there is little difference, but if you ask, you can differentiate in this way. Just like in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This mūḍha is ignorant, and he does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone, according to our Vedic culture, for the last five thousand years, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but he'll not do. He will say, "Why Kṛṣṇa will be the Supreme Lord? I am also." This is offense. This is offense. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. This offense is created on account of sinful life. Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Innocent has no sinful life. Otherwise there is no difference between ignorant and innocent. Purposefully, when one remains ignorant, foolish, purposefully... He'll not accept. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. According to Vedic culture, Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But there are many purposefully who will not accept Him. What can be done? They will argue. They will not accept the ācāryas. All the ācāryas, they accept Kṛṣṇa. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. They are the leaders of Vedic culture at the pre..., in the present moment. They are accepting. But other, foolish people, they are not accepting. māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Kṣetrajña.

Bhagavān: Kṣetrajña. Is that for one who is differentiating himself from this body? In other words, a person who has realized that there is field and there is knower, is he given that title or is the person who cannot make that distinction, is he also given that title?

Prabhupāda: No. Anyone who knows that... That I have explained. That everyone is sitting on the floor. So everyone knows that he is not floor. He's different from the floor. Is it very difficult?

Bhagavān: No.

Prabhupāda: So this is knower. Similarly by common sense we can understand that we are not this body.

Yogeśvara: It says in the purport: "Now the person who identifies himself with the body is called kṣetrajña, the knower of the field."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: In the purport it says: "The body is called kṣetra, or the field of activity for the conditioned soul, and the person who identifies himself with the body is called kṣetra, kṣetrajña, the knower of the field."

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is wrongly written.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: And similarly religion is one. Because God is one, His religion, because religion means law of God. Whatever He speaks, it must be the same everywhere. Either in the Bible, Koran or the Bhagavad-gītā. Unfortunately we are making so many differentiations or distinctions or contradictions. But actually on principle, there is only one religion. If we actually understand religion, the word of God, law of God, there can't be two religions. Just like mathematics is one.

Guest (1): I do feel that. It's because I do feel that so very strongly, I cannot feel impelled to give allegiance to any sect at all. It's repugnant to me.

Haṁsadūta: Sectarianism is the great enemy of...

Guest (1): It is, it's a dreadful thing.

Prabhupāda: From practical life, just like world's principal religion, Christianism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Mohammedanism also, the principle of not killing is there, every religion. Buddhism, they're completely for not killing. No circumstances, at any circumstances killing is not allowed. Similarly, in Vedic religion, killing is not allowed, but at circumstances, it is allowed. Similarly Christianity, they also say, "Thou shall not kill." Mohammedans also, they allow killing, but circumstantially. So the principle of killing is forbidden every religion, every religion. So the principle of religion is one. Take for example, in every religion there is acceptance of God and religion means to abide by the order of God.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Bhāgavatam is there. Yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra-marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I remember Śrīla Prabhupāda used this "acintya" to differentiate between the life and the non-living.

Prabhupāda: Acintya means living.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, acintya-śakti. Life, life has acintya...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whereas non-life doesn't have.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Matter, just like a molecule doesn't have this acintya. But they may...

Prabhupāda: No, it has, but it is covered too much. Consciousness is covered. Potency, potent. It is potent.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Molecule has consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything has consciousness, but it is covered. The degree is of covering.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: As energy, it is not different from Kṛṣṇa, as energy.

Yaśomatīnandana: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).

Prabhupāda: Yes. As energy, how can you differentiate from Kṛṣṇa?

Umāpati: You give the... It could be described as like the growth of a plant as compared to the energy of the sun.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: The growth of a plant as compared to the energy of the sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: The growth of the plant is the inferior energy, and the... (loud waves)

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many things. That is comparative study. But... (loud waves) Energy is not different from the energetic. Sunshine is not different from the sun. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. Everything is Bhagavān, but it appears like different.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is that what it means by sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then we have some tentative titles of the chapters and the first one is "A Unique Differentiation between a Living Spade(?) and a Non-living Matter."

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This will be tentatively planned to write by me and the second chapter is "The Eternality of the Living." That's also by me. And the third chapter is called "A Look at the Natural Laws Regarding the Origin of Life and Matter." In this there are different sections. First section is quantum mechanical demonstration that will be written by Jad (?) Prabhu, he's a mathematician.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the second part of it...

Prabhupāda: That theory, mathematics, you presented...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, this is...

Prabhupāda: His.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it's his.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Any system, mother's body or any living systems.

Guest (1): What I can do is to study the growth and differentiation of the nervous system, different parts of the nervous system and how it is affected by lack of protein in the diet of the mother.

Prabhupāda: That is medical science.

Guest (1): Because all over the developing world there are millions of mothers who would not get any great quantities of protein while they are pregnant. In the first instance before they are pregnant, they are not nutritionally prepared for having another burden of a baby inside their body, and without that adequate preparation when they become pregnant, this is a double stress on their physiological systems. And we would like to see how the baby gets affected.

Prabhupāda: So if by chance there is baby, killing. Is that the conclusion?

Guest (1): No, our conclusions just say that there is a critical period in the development of the baby that if it does not get any good nutrition at that time, then he's likely to be retarded in many respects.

Prabhupāda: Therefore?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Jayatīrtha: ...philosophy of some ordinary man. So this is the primary differential.

Prabhupāda: We don't say anything which is not spoken by God in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore it is appealing everywhere. Although it is in Sanskrit language, still, it is appealing. Just like if you go on the street and the signboard is, "Keep to the right," this is law. I cannot say, "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then I am criminal. You cannot dictate. The government has said, "Keep to the right." You have to do that, that is law. If you violate, then you are criminal. Pay fine. But ordinarily, one may think, "What is the wrong there, instead of keeping right, if I keep to the left?" He may think like that, but he doesn't know that is criminal.

Father: Yes. In the Bhagavad-gītā, I'm told that there are some two hundred versions of that. Is that the case?

Prabhupāda: Two hundred verses?

Jayatīrtha: Two hundred versions, different interpretations, commentaries, translations...

Father: But my question is that if that is the case...

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because you do not know, therefore you are animal. Therefore you are animal. You do not know what is the difference between man and animal; therefore you are animal.

Indian man (3): Very good. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: You are good animal. (laughter)

Indian man (3): This is right answer. When you cannot differentiate between man and animal, then that means you are animal.

Prabhupāda: And you admit it—then good animal. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...who has got this bodily conception of life, he is animal. That is the definition of animal.

Indian man (3): Anyone?

Prabhupāda: Who is thinking, "I am this body," he is animal.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatī-nandana: (break) ...is talking about Western philosopher. What about the modern Indian philosophers?

Prabhupāda: They are followers of the Western philosophers.

Brahmānanda: Same.

Yaśomatī-nandana: So why was it saying in the Western world this and that?

Indian: (break) ...to Śaṅkarācārya. Most of the Śaivites are Vaiṣṇavites only. There is no differentiation between a Śaivite and a Vaiṣṇavite. We use that (indistinct) only. Even that (indistinct) you can see. But actually Śaivism has gone underground. Viṣṇu temples are more prominent and more people are getting results immediately. He is (indistinct) mundane people. He is helping them by solving...

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We must come to the correct position of our spiritual life, then it is perfection of life. Otherwise, they're ignorant. If the husband comes at home and the wife calls him by the name, "John, come here." "Oh, you are not addressing 'my lord,' " it will be ridiculous. He might be "my lord," in the court, but when he's in the family, the wife calls by the name. So our, with the change of dress we are changing our name, circumstances, thoughts, and everything. Therefore we find differentiation. American, Indian, Hindu, Muslim, black, white, this, these are all designation of the dress. And therefore we do not agree. As soon as I accept, identify myself with the dress, there will be disagreement. And as soon as we, everyone of us, we know that this is superficial, this is dress, I am spirit soul, then there will be agreement. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, find out this verse. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). So without this understanding they have opened United Nations, keeping them cats and dogs. And they are simply barking, that's all. This is going on. For the last forty years simply they are barking. What achievement is there? In your country, who is the president gave the black man same liberty?

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that differentiates also the simple matter without life. For example, sometimes it has been asked whether a crystal is alive or not. This is confusing to the scientists. Sometimes they say that a crystal is behaving just like a living body, it grows and this and that, they say. But actually there is no flow of matter. That tells us that crystal is not life. There's a fundamental difference. The last point in this connection is that matter is impersonal and life has personality.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that implies that matter is unconscious and the life is fully conscious.

Vṛṣākapi: It's been said sometimes, Prabhupāda, that you have said that some rocks have life. Some rocks, some stones, are actually souls in them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in the tree there is spirit soul. Everywhere there is spirit soul, but development of consciousness makes difference. The difference between the tree and man is that man is developed consciousness. Consciousness is developed. Tree is not developed. That is difference, but life is there both in the tree and in man.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (1) (Indian man): When you talk of Kṛṣṇa, sometimes when we talk with our friends here, to ask you this thing, when you talk of Kṛṣṇa, do we mean that we are talking of Kṛṣṇa of Mahābhārata, or we are talking of the Kṛṣṇa the God, or the supreme head?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa Mahābhārata and Kṛṣṇa God is the same person. Why do you differentiate? My question will be how do you differentiate the Kṛṣṇa Mahābhārata and Kṛṣṇa God different? Because Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. That is a chapter in the Mahābhārata. So how do you differentiate? What is the cause that you are differentiating?

Guest (1): Well, I think that the...

Prabhupāda: No, you think you have already explained. But where is the basis of your thinking like that? Because everyone knows the Mahābhārata battle was there, Battle of Kurukṣetra, that is a chapter in the Mahābhārata. And Kṛṣṇa is the speaker in that Battle of Kurukṣetra and Arjuna is the fighter. How do you take away the Kṛṣṇa of Mahābhārata from the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra? What is your reason?

Guest (1): No, that is all right. Kṛṣṇa, we call... But do we take it, do you take it...

Prabhupāda: You have to take it, because there is no difference. As soon as you bring in Mahābhārata and Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa is the same. You cannot take it differently. Because Kṛṣṇa is speaking to one of the parties of the fighters, the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas, and that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samaveta yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means two parties desiring to fight.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You have to take it, because there is no difference. As soon as you bring in Mahābhārata and Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa is the same. You cannot take it differently. Because Kṛṣṇa is speaking to one of the parties of the fighters, the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas, and that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samaveta yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means two parties desiring to fight. Who are those parties? Māmakaḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva (BG 1.1). That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the Mahābhārata history. So how you can differentiate this Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa? There is no possibility, it is imagination. The beginning is Mahābhārata and the Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (2) (Indian man): Swamiji, excuse me for this, I read an article recently. One of my secretaries he brought that article to me, it was written by Dr. Bannerji in India-he's a professor at Calcutta University. And he says that Kṛṣṇa and the Mahābhārata, the Kurukṣetra, that is all a visionation.

Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. He's a fool. He does not know the facts, and he has posed himself as a learned scholar. That is the difficulty-fools and rascals presenting themselves as scholar and misrepresenting. People are being misguided. Because he is a learned scholar, you are citing his example. But he is a fool. He does not know what is Mahābhārata, what is Kṛṣṇa. And still, he wants to say something, that is his foolishness. He does not know, and still he wants to speak something. That is cheating. The cheating propensity is there for conditioned souls. He does not know one thing, still he wants to speak as an authority. That is cheating. How you can differentiate? If you are actually student of Mahābhārata, then how we can differentiate the speaker in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra and Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is accepted there as Bhagavān. Whenever Vyāsadeva writes Kṛṣṇa statements, he writes bhagavān uvāca.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. He's a fool. He does not know the facts, and he has posed himself as a learned scholar. That is the difficulty-fools and rascals presenting themselves as scholar and misrepresenting. People are being misguided. Because he is a learned scholar, you are citing his example. But he is a fool. He does not know what is Mahābhārata, what is Kṛṣṇa. And still, he wants to say something, that is his foolishness. He does not know, and still he wants to speak something. That is cheating. The cheating propensity is there for conditioned souls. He does not know one thing, still he wants to speak as an authority. That is cheating. How you can differentiate? If you are actually student of Mahābhārata, then how we can differentiate the speaker in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra and Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is accepted there as Bhagavān. Whenever Vyāsadeva writes Kṛṣṇa statements, he writes bhagavān uvāca. He's Bhagavān, as well as He's a historical person in the Mahābhārata. He never writes kṛṣṇa uvāca, he writes bhagavān uvāca. And Arjuna admits, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣam ādyam (BG 10.12), "You are the Supreme Person." How can you differentiate Kṛṣṇa of Mahābhārata and Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa...? These are miscalculations.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: Categories.

Prabhupāda: Total material elements, mahat-tattva.

Rūpānuga: Is that differentiated?

Prabhupāda: Mahat-tattva is differentiated.

Rūpānuga: Different categories?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The time element is there in mahat-tattva, so it is already twenty-five elements there including time. At this stage also, the impregnation of the Lord's internal potency means that the jīvas are already impregnated here from pradhāna. So here the living entities are in pure goodness.

Prabhupāda: The living entities are always in pure goodness. This material covering is separated. The living entities can be freed from material covering at any moment. Just like water and oil, it is always separated, it does not mix. The Vedic mantra also says asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. Actually, it is not mixed, but it is covered. That covering can be taken away at any moment simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). I think in First Canto, that description you try to understand, you'll get.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now in the First Canto in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is not very clear.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, killing or not killing, that is another point. You can kill your own son. They are killing, actually. That is another point. But they have got soul. All the symptoms are there; how you can say there is no soul? Where is the difference between man's behavior and animal's behavior? So far eating, sleeping, sex, defense is concerned, the same thing. How do you say that it is different from the human being? Why they differentiate the animal from the man? What is the main point?

Sadāpūta: I think that scientifically that was just Christian doctrine that made them do that. Because the scientists turned around...

Prabhupāda: Christian doctrine is not perfect. But symptoms of animal and symptoms of human being, primary necessities eating sleeping, mating, defense that is there, everywhere.

Rūpānuga: They may agree, but they'll say that this...

Prabhupāda: There is soul. As soon as there is living condition, there is soul. As soon as the body is dead, there is no soul. This is difference. It is the Christian doctrine, not scientific doctrine, that animal has... What we have to do with Christian theory?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have poor understanding of the nature of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Christianity, they speak of...

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, same. But you must explain at least. I want to know how far you have understood spiritual culture as it is. That is my question.

Mr. Hamidi: Well, of course, it is very difficult to differentiate.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is difficult. Practically you do not know what is spiritual culture. That is a fact. So first of all, you must try to understand what is spiritual culture. Spiritual culture means... There are two things within our experience. Matter and spirit. So matter is this body, and spirit is the soul within the body. Without spirit, this material body has no value. That we experience every day. When a man is dead, we take it, now the body is useless, throw it away. Therefore the body is important so long the spirit soul is there. And that is spirit. And when we study that spirit soul, that is the beginning of spiritual culture. If you have no idea of what is that spirit, then there is no question of spiritual culture. With this body we cannot make any progress of spiritual culture. That is not possible. The body is matter. They're explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Antavanta ime dehā. Bring Bhagavad-gītā. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ. So try to understand what is spirit, what is matter.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then why you came here? The Americans, why they went to America and killed the Indians? And now they have become proprietor, "Don't come here."

Jñānagamya: They allow some and then they differentiate, they try to see who is going to be...

Prabhupāda: That means you are violate the laws of God. Every place is God's place, so you're all God's sons. You can go anywhere. Unless I do something harm, you cannot check me. In the airport, everyone is checked. That means everyone is dishonest. Nowadays everyone is checked. So in the airport, the passengers, at least it is to be supposed they are paying so much fare, they are all respectable gentlemen. But nobody is to be trusted. They are all dishonest. This is your position. Even though you are outwardly respectable gentlemen, the airport authorities accept you as dishonest, to be checked. This is the effect of your education, everyone is dishonest. (lamb crying in background) Why the lamb is crying? Eh? The lamb?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they have lamb.

Prabhupāda: So they do not give the lamb to eat something?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They... I don't know, maybe they took the mother away or something.

Prabhupāda: No, I hear this sound always somewhere. No, they keep the lambs for killing, eh? But before killing, do they not supply any food? They starve?

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, it was necessary for them to Anglicize the Indians to rule over them.

Dr. Patel: Our differential, or (Hindi) has created all this rot.

Prabhupāda: It is not our, it is human society's.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) We allowed everyone to be here unawares. If public corporation, trading company, becomes the ruler of this country, I don't understand how it could be.

Prabhupāda: Because we have no, that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.

Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system (much airplane noise-indistinct) this open Democracy is not a (indistinct) by consensus...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is śūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "crazy," śūdra will be on the power. So they can...

Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Indian man (3): No, no, number (indistinct) again and again I had gone to (indistinct) and as to that, ultimately there is no difference. As soon as this (indistinct) when it comes. I would like this because I belong to the sect of our country, middle sect, from Swami Narayana. He's based on Rāmānujācārya philosophy which says that all the souls are there, they are the body of the creator Bhagavān. Just as the human ātmā has a body, this means there is the difference also identity. Identity is one and yet they have their own place. That have been the faith (indistinct). Now in many places this sometimes this differentiation remains, sometimes there is things said which wipe it out. I thought you would be the best person to give a guidance...

Prabhupāda: As you say that, Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gita, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). We living entities, we are part and parcel of God. Aṁśa. So any common man can understand.... (end)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Well, physical, mental... That's right. You are so intelligent that you make distinction between physical and mental. They're all manifestation(?). You are so intelligent. Without mental, is there any physical? Then why you engage psychologist? There may be physical madman. Why you take him at psychologist? Why? Now you're discriminating mental and physical. If mental has nothing to do with physical, then why you employ psychologist to cure a madman from physical violence? You are so fool. Without mental pain, there is no physical pain. Without mental derangement, there is no physical disturbance. Who commits suicide? Who commits murder unless he's mentally deranged? You are very intelligent, that you want to make differentiation between physical and mental. There is differentiation. But cure physically.(?) Naturally they'll become sound. Otherwise why so many psychologists, psychiatrists, are employed in your country?

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Give me.

Ādi-keśava: Sometimes... This is a book that is documenting all of their activity. One other thing is that sometimes when they are attacking us there is a good opportunity for us to differentiate ourselves, distinguish ourselves from other religions. For instance, this World Fellowship of Religions held a press conference at the United Nations. Now when they backed us, they would not back the Unification Church or the, you know, these Christians groups, because they don't like them. In general, the scholars, they favor our group. They don't favor the other groups. They don't like them. They think they are cheaters, and there has been some proof in the press. One problem is, for instance, this Mr. Moon, his...The tax commission in New York investigated him, and they took away his tax exempt status. And the Attorney General removed all of his privileges in the state of New York. So he has been made to look very bad. So rather than... There are some devotees who are saying we should stand together in an alliance with them. But every time I am asked in the press or anything, I say the same thing again, "No. We have nothing to do with them. We have nothing..." Because I am afraid that we will be dragged down with them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: They are rascals, and eventually they are going to be exposed.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Matter is also energy. It is also energy. As energy, they are one. But have... They have differentiated in different... Is it clear?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The... Except spirit, other things are superficial, but they are there. Prakṛti-stha. So his fault is to come in touch with the matter. Just like we are cleansing. The stool is also part of the body, but we are cleaning. Is it clear?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Stool is not required.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (pause) Yes, the example of the flower bud is nice. I can understand it better now.

Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. By association of pāpa-puṇya, he suffers or enjoys. When the enjoyment is finished, he again falls down with vṛṣṭi and... Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Then, from water, again grows. Very troublesome business.