Devotion (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"devotion" |"devotion's" |"devotionism"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: devotion or devotionism or devotion's not "nectar of devotion" not "love and devotion" not " devotion to krsna" not "pure devotion" not "unalloyed devotion"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: Couple years later. All right. Because time is an important factor. You have to keep track of the time in the play.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He toured, after His sannyāsa, He toured all over India for six years only. That means up to 30th year He toured all over India. And from 30th year to 48th year, 18 years, He constantly remained at Jagannātha Purī. He used to chant in the temple and meet His visitors. Especially during car festival ceremony of Jagannātha, from Bengal about 400, 500 devotees would go and meet Him, and they would remain there for four months continually. July, August, September, October. Four months. And then they would come back. In this way, for 18 years He passed in Jagannātha Purī. So Rūpa Gosvāmī, He met Rūpa Gosvāmī and He taught him about the science of devotion for ten days. That devotional service He instructed that the living entities they're roaming in the 8,400,000 species of life. Fortunately, if by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa and if he gets one good spiritual master, then he learns about devotional service. So He taught him about the science of devotional service. That is the importance of meeting Rūpa Gosvāmī. So here the scenery must be mentioned. It is on the bank of Ganges. There is a nice ghāṭa, just like... You have been to Benares? No. You have been to Hardwar?

Hayagrīva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You have seen many ghāṭas, bathing places.

Hayagrīva: Oh yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, there are ghāṭas in Benares, Prayag, and all, I mean to say, Vṛndāvana. That is the specific significance of Indian places of pilgrimage.

Hayagrīva: Yes. They bathe there every day I noticed.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You learn this song.

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya

prabhu nityānanda

śrī-advaita gadādhara

śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

Chant this when dancing.(?)

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya

prabhu nityānanda

śrī-advaita gadādhara

śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

(I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.)

Manifestation of Kṛṣṇa in five expansions. Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself. Not only Kṛṣṇa, even a perfect yogi he can also expand. Not as many as Kṛṣṇa. But a perfect yogi, from the scriptures we can understand that a perfect yogi can expand himself up to eight, up to nine forms. There was one Saubhari Muni. The Saubhari Muni he used to perform yoga practice within water. There were many sages who used to practice. Somebody within water. Somebody surrounding fire and in the midst. That means voluntarily putting the body into trouble, and at the same time executing yoga practice. They were so much advanced that in spite of all material trouble they would be able to execute spiritual duties. Saubhari Muni was sexually agitated within the water by the fishes. So he came out of the water, and the neighboring king, I forgot the name, he went there and demanded the king that "I want to marry your daughter. So give me your daughter." The king thought... (laughs) He was so ugly because he was within the water. So all body was, what is called?

Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Prabhupāda: One who loves Kṛṣṇa without inquiry, that is nice position. To inquire about Kṛṣṇa is knowledge. And pure devotion is transcendental to knowledge. Love does not depend on the greatness. If a boy loves a girl or the girl loves a boy, even in this material field, it does not depend on the greatness of the boy. Of course, here everything is on material consideration. But actual love is without any consideration, what He is or what He isn't. That is real love. That is the perfectional stage of love, without inquiring how great He is or what He is. But for the neophytes it is necessary to know about Kṛṣṇa. Because we have no love, so if we understand that Kṛṣṇa is so great, then gradually we can love. Our position is different because when... Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said that siddhānta boliya citte na kara ālasa: "Try to understand about Kṛṣṇa." Just like Kṛṣṇa is explaining in Bhagavad-gītā that "I am this amongst the trees. I am this. I am this planet. Amongst this, I am this. I am this." So just to impress upon the neophyte devotees about the greatness... And those who are advanced devotees, they do not want to see whether Kṛṣṇa is great or small. They simply love Him. That's all. That is pure love. In Vṛndāvana, at least these gopīs, they never saw Kṛṣṇa's any jugglery or any greatness. But they still love, pure love. Pure love means

anyābhilāśitā-śūnyaṁ

jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

(Brs. 1.1.11)

Without any cultivation of knowledge, without any activities of fruitive action, without any desire, simply to love Kṛṣṇa in order to please Him—that is the highest perfectional stage of devotion. There is no consideration "Whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not, whether we are getting benefit or not." "Simply we love Kṛṣṇa." That is the perfectional stage. (break)

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: (inaudible)

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Interviewer: What do you offer to Kṛṣṇa? That is, do you offer money in the sense of an offering in a Christian church or do you burn anything, for example, incense or could you explain this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The flowers, incense, and fruits, the same thing. I have already explained that whatever He has described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone offering Me these things in devotion..." So we follow the same principle. So it is very nice thing. If the students follow, they can follow it individually. Even in his own apartment he can keep a picture of Kṛṣṇa and offer a lamp, a candle, and one, I mean to say, incense. He will feel tremendously spiritually advanced. And if he reads these books, his life will be changed completely. That is a fact. (break) And two boys, Kṛṣṇānanda and one German boy, is going there very soon. So, of course, we do not expect to sell English books in Germany very much, but maybe... (end)

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: First of all you have to understand that we are trying to make people Kṛṣṇa conscious. So how he can remain twenty-four hours Kṛṣṇa conscious, that is the program.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, the orthodox Jews have a very heavy, complicated, moment by moment ritual daily existence in that, for that same purpose. It was to keep them conscious of their religious nature. And that has maintained a small group of Jews over the centuries as an integral unit, but has tended to disappear in the later generations now simply because modern life does not allow that much Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Jewish consciousness or religious consciousness and attention, act by act throughout the day. So my question is how far can total Kṛṣṇa devotion, act by act all day, spread? How many people can that encompass in a place like America? Or are you intending only to get a few devotees, like several hundred or a thousand who will be solid and permanent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is my program. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible for everyone. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births one can come to this. So it is not possible that a mass of people, a large quantity of people will be able to grasp it. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Another place it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). After many thousands of men, one may be interested how to liberate himself. And out of many such liberated persons, one may understand what is Kṛṣṇa. So understanding of Kṛṣṇa is not very easy thing. But Lord Caitanya is so munificent that He has given us a, I mean to say, easy process. (indistinct) Otherwise Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not easy. Because Kṛṣṇa is the last word of Absolute Truth. Generally, people are just like animals.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Then that is Indian food? Do you mean to say it is Indian food?

Allen Ginsberg: Well, the curries.

Prabhupāda: Curries you may boil only. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that you have to take our taste. No. That is not the program, that to become Kṛṣṇa conscious you have to change your taste. No. We say from the Bhagavad-gītā... Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). "Anyone who is offering Me with devotion these vegetables, fruits, flowers, milk, I accept that." But we are going to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are selecting foodstuff from this group. That you are all already accepting. Don't you take vegetables? Don't you take fruits? Don't you take grains? So where is the new item? Now, so far cooking, you can cook in your own taste. But the group must be this. Not meat. Because Kṛṣṇa does not say. That is our program. So you are already taking grains, you are eating fruits, you are drinking milk. So where is the difference? I don't find any difference.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, I suppose not. You could say there is no difference because the food is basically the same materially. It's just a question of the style.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you take... Style may be different. That's all right. Besides that, to maintain your body and soul together, you require eating, you require sleeping, you require mating, you require defense. We don't say that you don't do this. Kṛṣṇa was... Arjuna was defending. Rather, he wanted to be nonviolent. "Oh, what is the use of fighting?" Kṛṣṇa said, "No. It is required. You should." So where is the difference? There is no difference. Simply we are adjusting things so that you may become happy. Any intelligent man will take it. We are not prohibiting, but we are adjusting. So there is no difficulty. Simply intelligent persons like you should try to understand and take it and administer because your country is wanting this.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Well, what are they? Impersonalists or personalists?

Lady: Impersonalists. They believe in just the Absolute. That's all.

Prabhupāda: That was the difference in Jesus Christ. He was a personalist.

Devotee: Hasidics are personal.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. They put their devotion into the rabbi or the guru. The ancient Hebrew... I guess you must know about that. The ancient Hebrew teaching was that the name of God should never be pronounced.

Prabhupāda: Now we come to know...

Allen Ginsberg: J-H-V-H.

Prabhupāda: Anyway why God's name...

Allen Ginsberg: Pictures should not be made. Pictures should not be made. Because it would limit God to human conception.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is in Muhammadan. That means God is not material. That is the idea. Because here the idea is when I make something image or picture, that is material. So there is a prohibition of accepting God as material. But if you go to a higher stage, then you'll understand that if God is everything then there is no material. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. If God is everything, then where is material? He is spiritual. Material means when you cannot understand God. That is material. Everything is sky. When it is covered by cloud we call it is cloudy. Similarly, cloud has no existence. It comes only to cover sometimes, but the sky is eternal. Similarly, God is eternal.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not real food.

Prabhupāda: No. Or... Real food is not required. Simply that explain it. Or you can do one thing. You can offer real food. And since she will be in devotion, one may take the foodstuff and distribute to the audience and keep it. That will be also nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Maybe we can distribute prasāda twice in the play.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even just to... Maybe that plate we'll just give to a few people nearby.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...first speak in detail about Ṭhākura Haridāsa's disappearance. So tell me maybe how you want it to be performed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ṭhākura Haridāsa was living in a cottage which was... Just like I am living here, and the garage site a little far off, Haridāsa was living a little distance. So when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go to the sea for taking bath, He every day, every morning He used to go to Haridāsa Ṭhākura and taking his informa..., "Haridāsa, what you are doing?" Because Haridāsa was Mohammedan by birth, so out of his meekness he did not go to the temple. But in those... Especially in those days they were very strict. They do not allow anyone except Hindus to enter the temple. Nowadays, of course, there is law. If somebody is, actually has come to the Hindu way of life, he's allowed. Our Jayagovinda and others were allowed to see Jagannātha temple. But in those days there were no such system and Haridāsa out of his own accord, he did not want to disturb. But Lord Caitanya, God Himself, used to come to see him every day. So one day when Caitanya came, he looked little bit depressed.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another thing.

Revatīnandana: Just like we have so many beautiful songs and melodies and everything. They're very nice. And we sing these songs. They are glorifying the Lord. And we enjoy like that. Music is there, everything is there, but because it is directly in the devotional service of God, therefore there is this bhakti, there is this devotion there. Devotion to God. Without that, everything becomes void. Tasteless.

Guest (2): Can I get one point straight? Is the Beethoven symphony all right provided it is blessed as an object and a work of art. Is it then all right? Or is it not all right because it doesn't use religious themes?

Haṁsadūta: Originally, music and art were employed only to glorify the Lord in the scripture and...

Prabhupāda: In Sāma-veda, Sāma-veda.

Haṁsadūta: Gradually, if you study our history, music history, God was left out. Just like you will see landscapes, and there's nothing in there about God. It was left out. But originally the landscape, there was some depiction of the activities of God or His representative.

Guest (2): So a Beethoven symphony is not all right.

Haṁsadūta: It's not a matter of Beethoven symphony. Art means to glorify God. If God is in the... Just like this picture. There is a mountain, there is sky, but what is the point there? The point is Kṛṣṇa. There's a book, but the point is the spiritual master. Here's a landscape, but the point is Kṛṣṇa.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: He behaves Himself perfectly and then teaches how to become a devotee. He is mad after Kṛṣṇa, He is falling down in the sea. You see? So that is wanted. And the Bhāgavata also says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir (SB 1.2.6), how one has increased his devotion and love for Kṛṣṇa, that is the test of it. Not these formalities. Another place Kṛṣṇa says, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Even sudurācāraḥ, even not well behaved but unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30), he is sādhu. Don't consider about his misbehaviors. That is not consideration. That will be corrected. Because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, gradually those things, those defects will be corrected. kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati, he will become very soon a great religious soul because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa. So in the beginning if there is some defect, we should not consider that. We have to see how much his love for Kṛṣṇa has increased, that is the test. Not the formalities. That is the test, how much he has sacrificed for Kṛṣṇa, how much he is prepared to sacrifice for Kṛṣṇa. If one takes Kṛṣṇa for making business, that is different thing, that is not devotion. Śālagrāma, my Guru Maharaja used to say śālagrām bir badam hoy (?). Just like you have seen śālagrāma. So if somebody takes that and breaks peanuts, so there is no devotion. It is a show during, attracting the visitors, it is nicely decorated, but in their absence, take it and you will have stone. So all this mostly the temple show is going on like that. They have made it a show of business. The devotees will come and pay something and I may have devotion or not devotion, it doesn't matter. One should be baccha bankaram suci (?), inside and outside perfect.

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: (reading:) "...Kṛṣṇa can be described, not (indistinct) Him, his mind becomes totally associated with Him. His Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda in his discourse at the (indistinct) Sunday, said there was no rigid rules and regulations for chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, nor does it require formal education. While uttering the name of Sri Kṛṣṇa one should focus the mind on the image and form of the Lord, His auspicious activities, His delightful sport, and His role as Gītā-ācārya. Lord Caitanya, during His visit to a temple in South India, found a man scanning the pages of the Bhagavad-gītā without seeming to read the verses, and inquiring, the same found that the person was illiterate and yet he was turning the pages of the Gītā at the request of his master because as he did so, he had a vision of Sri Kṛṣṇa expounding spiritual knowledge to Arjuna on the Kurukṣetra battlefield. Thereupon Caitanya embraced him in all admiration for his devotion, sincere faith, and guidance of the spiritual master as necessary for God realization." They give very nice article. You have seen it?

Madhudviṣa: No. (pause) He doesn't give the receipt number. He says... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...all the educated men. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the, who is called, elite society appreciate, then ordinary people will also appreciate. Before my Guru Maharaja, I mean, Bhaktisiddhānta's..., Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Lord Caitanya's cult was considered by the higher class as it is the business of the low-class men. Even Vivekananda remarked that "It is the religion of sex," because they saw that the sahajiyās, they discussed this rāsa-līlā and have illicit connection with woman. So therefore they took it as the religion of sex. Vivekananda. But now...

Guest: (Hindi)

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So try to find out. (break) You can talk. (break) (A devotee is speaking in Bengali over the loudspeaker and Prabhupāda mimics him, everyone laughs.) Mahāṁsa? Who is speaking, Mahāṁsa speaking or Bardon? (break)

Indian man: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have one question. What is the purpose of service minus devotion?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? That is not service; that is business. (laughter) Just like we have employed some contractor. That is not service; that is business. Is it not?

Indian man: Certainly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like sometimes they advertise: "Our customers are our master." Is it not? Sometimes advertise. So this is business, but it is a flowery language only that "Our customers are our masters." Because nobody is a qualified customer unless he pays. Hmm? But service is not like that. Service, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām (CC Antya 20.47), "Oh, You do whatever You like; still, You are my worshipable Lord." That is service. "I don't ask any return from You." That is service. When you expect some return that is business. (pause) Very nice road. (break)

Bob: I wish to ask you to advise me on how I can come to feel closer to God. I'll be leaving you soon, and I'm... With you...

Prabhupāda: You have to purify.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Perfected soul means twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfection. Transcendental position. Perfection means to be engaged in his original consciousness. That is perfection. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Anyone who comes to Me, that is the..." Saṁsiddhiḥ labhate param. Saṁsiddhi. Perfection, complete perfection. Saṁsiddhi. Siddhi and saṁsiddhi. Siddhi is perfection. That is Brahman realization. And saṁsiddhi means devotion, after Brahman realization.

Bob: Could you just say that last thing again please?

Prabhupāda: Saṁsiddhi.

Bob: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Sam means complete.

Bob: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And siddhi means perfection. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that one who goes back to home, back to Godhead, he has attained the complete perfection. So perfection means when one realizes that he's not this body, he's spirit soul. Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). That is called Brahman realization. That is perfection. And saṁsiddhi means after Brahman realization, when one is engaged in devotional service. Therefore, one who is already engaged in devotional service, it is to be understood that Brahman realization is there. Therefore it is called saṁsiddhi.

Bob: I, I, I ask you this very humbly, but do you feel diseases and sickness?

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No dislikings, no liking. Whatever Kṛṣṇa likes, that's all right.

Devotee: Yes. But say someone prepares something, like some prasādam for Kṛṣṇa, but he does not make it so good, and it is...

Prabhupāda: No, if you have made sincerely with devotion, then Kṛṣṇa will like it. Just like Vidura. Vidura was feeding Kṛṣṇa banana. So he was so absorbed in thought he was, I mean to say, throwing away the real banana and he was giving Him the skin, and Kṛṣṇa was eating. (laughter) Because He knows that "He's giving Me in the devotion." So Kṛṣṇa can eat anything, provided there is devotion, real devotion. It does not matter whether it is materially tasteful or not. Similarly, a devotee also take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Whether it is materially tasteful or not, he should accept everything.

Devotee: But the devotion is not there. Like in India...

Prabhupāda: Devotion is not there, He does not like any food, either is tasteful or not tasteful. He does not accept it.

Devotee: In India, somebody said...

Prabhupāda: No India, of India, don't talk of India. Talk of the philosophy. If there is no devotion, Kṛṣṇa does not accept anything, either in India or in your country. It is not... Kṛṣṇa's not obliged to accept anything costly because it is very tasteful. Kṛṣṇa has many tasteful dishes in Vaikuṇṭha. He's not hankering after your food. He accepts your devotion. That out of... Bhaktyā, tad aham aśnāmi. Bhaktyā upahṛtam, real thing is devotion. Not the food. Kṛṣṇa does not accept any food of this material world. But He accepts only the devotion. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26), tad aham aśnāmi bhaktyā upahṛtam. "Because it has been offered to Me with devotional love," that is required. One who has no devotional love, from his hand... Therefore we do not allow anyone to cook who is not a devotee. Kṛṣṇa does not accept anything from the hands of a nondevotee. Why should He accept? He's not hungry. He does not require any food. He accepts only the devotion. That's all. That is the main point.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ordinary duty. If you encroach upon my freedom, I have the right to kill you. That is recommended. That is clearly stated in the śāstras. If anyone sets fire in another's house, if anyone kidnaps his wife, if anyone takes his money—so many list—he is to be killed. There is no question. He can be killed immediately. That action-reaction is going on in the material world, that is a different thing. That is karma-bandha. But in devotion, there is no karma-bandha. As Kṛṣṇa is free from all reaction, similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee who wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only, he is also free from all reaction. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāva-manyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). "The ācārya is as good as I am," Kṛṣṇa says. Nāva-manyeta karhicit, "Never neglect him." Na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, "Never be envious of the ācārya, thinking him as anything of this material world." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27). Therefore, ācārya's position is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. Ācārya is always cautious that he may not be subject to criticism. But who criticizes ācārya, he becomes immediately offender. Because he is playing the part of ācārya, he plays as far as possible. But sometimes for preaching work, he might have to do something which is not consistent. But if he is criticized, then that man who criticizes, he becomes... Of course, he must be ācārya, not a bogus. Ordinary man cannot transgress the laws, but Kṛṣṇa and His representative, ācārya, might be sometimes seen that he has transgressed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27). Vaiṣṇavera kriyā, mudrā vijñeha nā bujhaya. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Vaiṣṇava ācārya, his activities is not understood even by the wisest man. Vaiṣṇavera kriyā, mudrā vijñeha nā bujhaya. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. Ācārya, guru, he is completely surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He has taken the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, being completely freed from all material affection. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. Everything...

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Better than in this way, that just like here also on this planet, those who are richer section, they particularly do not care to know what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They're proud, puffed-up for material opulence. "Ah, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let us enjoy drink." That is their position. So it is a curse for them. Their richness is a curse for them, that they cannot adore such a nice movement. The middle class section, they are being attracted. Similarly, the demigods, they have got very, very high standard of life, duration of life, beauty, opulence, facilities, so generally they forget. Not forget; they are servant. Just like government servant does not mean a devotee. So they are devotee, officially devotee. They, they offer their obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. (Sanskrit), worship by Lord Siva or Brahma, but their devotion is conditional because they're posted in such high post, so they may remain in their post. In this way, exchange. But in the human society you'll find devotees, there is no question of exchange; it is simply love. (more thunder)

Martin: These demigods are what we call angels?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: So how does science fit in with all of this?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Let him speak.

Martin: This is why I'm here. I know science...

Prabhupāda: Hm? He can...

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: You have to be qualified.

Martin: How can you be qualified?

Prabhupāda: This is the process going on in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They become devotee, follow the rules and regulations, the prescribed method, you'll see God. You'll see constantly, twenty-four hours. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti, premāñjana cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). If you have developed such devotion and love for God, then you will see always God. Just like if you have got a child whom you very much love, you'll see the child always in front of you, always. It is due to love. Similarly, you have to develop love for Kṛṣṇa and you'll see Him. He can be seen by love, not by your method. He is not under any method, but He is under love. So you have to develop love and then you'll see. (aside:) There is no flavor. Is it any flavor?

Martin: It's very faint.

Devotee: Mexican incense.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: Christian incense.

Prabhupāda: So all science of God is described in Bhagavad-gītā.

Devotee: This morning you said that Kṛṣṇa is the original scientist because..., because He is a scientist then we can have our science.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam, favorably. Otherwise, it will go to the category of anyābhilāṣitā, material desire-jñāna, karma, yoga, (indistinct). And bhakti is so pure that it has nothing to do with material activities or speculative, or mystic yoga, it has nothing to do. Just like gopīs. Anyā... They had nothing to do with all this nonsense, karma, jñāna, yoga. They are neither yogīs, nor very learned scholar, Vedāntist, nor very good businessmen, economist, simple boys and girls. But their devotion is exalted. Because they did not know anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is their love(?). Never mind to know that Kṛṣṇa is God or not, it doesn't matter. Then they don't, they didn't care for God also. Gopīs, when they say Nārāyaṇa, "Oh, He's Nārāyaṇa." (laughter) (indistinct) Nārāyaṇa, they have nothing to do with Him. They are searching after Kṛṣṇa and when Kṛṣṇa presented Himself as Nārāyaṇa, four-handed, they neglected. And before Rādhārāṇī, He could not remain as Nārāyaṇa. Automatically He handed (indistinct). (laughter) Hands are folded. So our idea is Vṛndāvana. So our love for Kṛṣṇa should be so strong that we don't care for anything. But for preaching if somebody challenges, yes, we are prepared to talk. That is authority. That is uttama-adhikārī. His love is Kṛṣṇa, enormous, but not sentiment. If anyone wants to talk with him, "Yes, come on," That is uttama-adhikārī, mahā-bhāgavata. So this is the position. Now something is in your hand—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That was my plan that I shall carry this baggage and give it to the Americans and they will distribute. That was my plan, therefore I came to America. So now you are so many boys, young boys, you have understood. So do it and give me relief. I remain in the background. Let me finish my Bhāgavata Purāṇa and those who are assisting in the writing, I'll be there (indistinct). That this institution, ISKCON will give to the world so many valuable jewels. There is no comparison. That you will have to see, (indistinct). Already they are appreciating on account of (indistinct). The paper, what is that paper...

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: No.

Devotee (4): Eat? No, shouldn't send.

Prabhupāda: He's not a devotee. He'll "Oh, what is this?" Throw away.

Devotee (4): Hm.

Prabhupāda: Just like the tulasī plant is here, somebody will think that it is decoration. We put it here, devotion, but those who are not interested to speak them about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we offense. One of the ten offenses.

Devotee (4): Yeah. I was wondering about that. I didn't know whether to do it or not.

Prabhupāda: They should be asked ordinary question: What is the life? What is the aim of life?

Devotee (4): Hm.

Prabhupāda: What is consciousness? Philosophy, which is understandable by everyone (indistinct).

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Would you like something Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I want to (indistinct) my head.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Where is Śyāmasundara.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is personal motivation.

Prabhupāda: This is not surrender.

Jayatīrtha: Kṛṣṇa is not attracted by the foodstuff; He's attracted by the devotion.

Prabhupāda: Devotion, yes. For Kṛṣṇa we can offer (indistinct). (break)

Jayatīrtha: You will go from London to Bombay?

Prabhupāda: If need be. (indistinct) (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is dark.

Prabhupāda: It's getting darker and darker. (indistinct) So we will have to change our plan. (break) (indistinct) ...and they are also making dog show.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When I came here, I was walking and I saw big house and the restaurants. So I didn't know what... So I asked somebody, "Oh, this is just (indistinct)." And afterward I found out it was some food made out of...

Devotee (2): Meat.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Now what is the explanation?

Scholar: Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gītā traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the king of all planets. This science is especially meant for the perfection of the inhabitants, and therefore, the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, the eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life...

Prabhupāda: This Vivasvān is the original person of the kṣatriya family, Sūrya-vaṁśa.

Scholar: Sūrya-vaṁśa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Eh?

Devotee: Does he mention Vivasvān here? Should I read it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Scholar: The sun is the king of the planets and the sun god (at present of the name Vivasvān) rules...

Prabhupāda: At the present moment, the president or the predominating person, his name is given, Vivasvān.

Scholar: He's a person. He's a man.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda is my spiritual master.

Guest (1): From master. Given by master to you.

Devotee: That's right.

Guest (1): So after at least one year later according some occupational training and devotion and can initiated, initiate. Not now.

Devotee: There's... No. There's first initiation and second initiation. First initiation means that you are able to chant sixteen rounds and follow those four rules.

Guest (1): Hm. Yes. Cardinal sins.

Devotee: Like that. After six months following then you get first initiation. After one more year, then you get this thread if you...

Guest (1): Oh yes.

Devotee: This is after one year. First initiation is after six months.

Guest (1): And this is...

Devotee: After one year.

Guest (1): ...like a special prize. This (indistinct) master. But this is essential and this initiation (indistinct) after novitiate.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...I'll go and take rest.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Water can be counteracted by fire or air. Everyone knows it. So you do it, suspension. So this is for you mystic power. You can talk all nonsense, but you cannot act against it. Therefore it is mystic power. So similarly, there are so many things. That is acintya-śakti. You cannot think of even. By nature's way, immediately the sun rises—no more mist. All finished. A little temperature increase of the sun, all finished. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. This example is given in the Bhāgavata. Nīhāra, this is called nīhāra. Just like nīhāra is immediately dissipated by bhāskara, by the sun, similarly, if one can awaken his dormant devotion, then all finished, all his reaction of sinful activities, finished. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. You just create... You calculate sun is composition of this chemical, that chemical. Just create one sun and throw it. Simply theoretical future, bluff and juggling of words, that's not good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what the research means. Research means to understand what was not known before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogī became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Rāmacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: "Come on." So that is an inconceivable power. And because you cannot adjust this inconceivable power, when they are described, you say, "Oh, these are all stories."

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He's not in want. He's complete in Himself. But when a devotee gives Him love and faith, He accepts: "All right. Thank you." That is another thing. Otherwise, He doesn't require anything from him. What beautiful thing you can give to Kṛṣṇa? He can create thousand times beautiful thing than you... What power you have got? Why should you desire like that? But if you are devotee, either it is beautiful or ugly, it doesn't matter. If you give to Kṛṣṇa in good faith, He'll accept it. It doesn't matter. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He doesn't require anything. But bhaktyā, in devotion and love, if anyone offers even a little leaf, a little flower, tad aham aśnāmi, "I accept." He says. A little flower and little leaf, what benefit you'll do to Kṛṣṇa, unlimited? But He says, "Still, I accept because it is offered in faith and devotion." So that is a different thing.

Śyāmasundara: It's funny, too. When David went to see the Queen one day, he took fifteen of our small rubies. They're not worth much compared to her crown jewels...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly.

Śyāmasundara: But he told her that they were like... She said, "Well, what shall I do with them?" And he said, "Well, they are... Consider them, Your Majesty, like flowers offered to you by one of your subjects." And she became very pleased to see it like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What, what is the value of those jewels to her? But if some citizen offers in good faith and love, she accepts. That's all.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot drop. You cannot drop.

Guest (8): How does he know that he is pleasing God or he's not pleasing God?

Prabhupāda: That, that... Therefore you have to know how to talk with Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be possible. You cannot manufacture. And that is that you can talk with Kṛṣṇa by devotion.

Guest (8): Because apparently, you know, to a layman, this killing wasn't an act which will please Kṛṣṇa, and that, what Arjuna did, kill such a big army and everything, it will... Normally you know, a layman would have thought it won't please Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa, if you cannot meet Kṛṣṇa, you can meet with Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa may not be physically present, but His representative is physically present. You can talk with him. That is the system of Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I talked with the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "First of all I talked with the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "Then he talked with his son, Manu. Then Manu talked with Ikṣvāku. In this way..." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, there is a disciplic succession. So if you can be in touch with that disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. If you talk with the Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. Just like in office, there are different departments, and the, there is a man, departmental-in-charge. So if you can talk with that departmental-in-charge, if you can please him, that means you are pleasing the proprietor or director. There is no doubt. Because he is representative. So physically you may not meet Kṛṣṇa, but in higher stage, you can meet. But accepting that you cannot..., but He, you have to be in contact with His representative. That is coming in disciplic succession. Then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult. The ācāryas are there. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyām. Kṛṣṇa says. "All the ācāryas," māṁ vijānīyām, "they are Myself." Nāvamanyeta karhicit, "Never disregard ācārya." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāṁ nāvaman..., na martya-buddhyāsūyeta "Do not be envious: 'How he can be? He's ordinary man. How he can be representative?'

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But it is compulsory? (laughter) They can come. It is not the question of surrender. (break)

David Lawrence: (reading from report) "...used to be involved heavily with that. The booklet itself is to be produced in color, black and white by means of one of the most modern printing systems in the world, and the colorplates should be of very good quality." You know, I was thinking about the beautiful pictures of the Bhagavad... (Break) ...really produce those. "It's hoped to market the thirty-page booklets for about thirty pence. The publisher, Marshall's Educational, is a long established publishing house which is Marshall, Morgan and Scott, specialized in theological and devotional books. They are now turning their attention to the production of much-needed religious education books. Financial basis of the series: David Lawrence has undertaken the commission with the agreement that they must be produced as cheaply as possible. The author receives no expenses and is receiving payment on the lowest rate of royalty only." So it means I've just about covered my expenses. "The purpose of the series of booklets: to offer the opportunity for students to see the spiritual way as relevant today, 2.) to show how God loves and how we should respond with devotion, 3.) to produce a booklet so cheaply that it will easily be available in schools and to any other interested inquirers, to the latter by means of national outlets such as W.H. Smith." They're an enormous chain of booksellers throughout the country. "4.) to allow each movement to speak for itself so that at every point the representatives will feel that they themselves are behind the booklet. This will give the youngsters full opportunity to make up their own minds as to the bona fide nature or not of a devotional organization." Your specific booklet. "An essential part of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness booklet and a revolutionary concept in religious education publishing will be the production of the teacher's pack. The aims of producing this pack are 1.) to arm the normally conservative R.E. teacher with such a battery of audio-visual aids that he will feel fully dressed to embark upon a series of lessons on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, 2.) to give the teacher..." (pause, people coming in or out of room)

Prabhupāda: Yes, go on.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: We talked with Professor Zeiner (Zayner?), and he may come. He's trying... He's going to see...

Prabhupāda: That is only interpretation. Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa is speaking to Arjuna. He is plainly speaking that "I am speaking to you this Bhagavad-gītā because You are My devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam (BG 4.3). So first condition to understand Bhagavad-gītā is to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the only talk is about devotion. There is no other talk. There are other talks, but they are subordinate. They are not principal talks. The principal talk is to understand Kṛṣṇa through bhakti-yoga. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). You understand Sanskrit? You...?

David Lawrence: Yes, yes, I'm there.

Prabhupāda: So if He says, "One can understand Me only through bhakti,"... He has spoken about jñāna, karma, yoga, everything, but if anyone wants to know Kṛṣṇa, then He says, it is His direct order, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Tattvataḥ, "In truth, what I am, if anyone wants to know, that can be known through bhakti-yoga. No other method."

David Lawrence: I was very interested this last week to be reading a book which really was trying to defend orthodox Christianity, and it was by a very devotional Christian writer, and he, in fact, was making exactly the same points as yourself about the God consciousness of Jesus. I read the Ratha-yātrā magazine, and saw how, I think it was a nun that asked you about the position of Jesus on this, and you quite rightly said, "Well, of course, Jesus never claimed to be God." I do wish that some Christians would realize that. He was God conscious, wasn't he?

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Simply by devotion. Anyone who is always engaged in devotional service, he's not in this material platform. He's in the spiritual platform. This is the technique. You remain always Kṛṣṇa conscious; you are no longer living in the material world. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

So study this Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly and be benefited and do good to others. This should be the mission.

David Lawrence: I was so overawed when I came in that I didn't put this on. (About tape recorder)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

David Lawrence: I was so overawed when I came in that I didn't put the...

Śyāmasundara: You can get a copy.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. Śruta-gṛhītayā. By hearing from authority. Śruta. Gṛhītayā. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. This is the process. Tac chraddadhānā munayo jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā, paśyanty ātmānam ātmani, śruta-gṛhītayā, bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā (SB 1.2.12). This is the process.

Reporter: By devotion, by listening you receive and see the self...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: ...within the self.

Prabhupāda: Yes, within the self.

Reporter: Ātmani ātmānam. (break)

Prabhupāda: What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The Absolute Truth is realized in full by the process of devotional service to the Lord Vāsudeva, or the Personality of Godhead..."

Prabhupāda: This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Never says by jñāna or karma you'll get.

Reporter: Only bhakti, yes.

Prabhupāda: Go on.

Room Conversation -- London, August 24, 1973 :

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?

Devotee (2): "After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection."

Prabhupāda: This is the highest perfection. We have to go to Kṛṣṇa.

Woman: So when you have had your suffering in various forms and through various lives, you then reach the...

Prabhupāda: No, not that.

Woman: Not that. Not...

Prabhupāda: Not that.

Woman: Not that.

Prabhupāda: You have to prepare yourself to go there. Not that because you have suffered so much, automatically you will go there.

Woman: Not that. Not that.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: ...for eating, then at least the mother animal should not be killed. That is from moral point of view.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, from moral point of view...

Prabhupāda: So our point of view is that we don't allow killing any animal. Our Kṛṣṇa says: patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Kṛṣṇa says vegetable, fruits, milk, grains, all these things should be offered to Me with devotion. And you should take the remnants of the foodstuff. So we take prasādam. And Kṛṣṇa says: "Give Me foodstuff prepared from this group." That we do. Accepting that the fruits, they have got life. But fruits are by nature... There are many fruits. It is offered by the tree for eating. The tree's not killed. So we accept this philosophy also that a, one animal, one living entity is meant for being food for another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. That we also accept, but that does not mean one living entity is the food for another living entity, that does not mean I can kill my mother, my child... That is not, sir. So at least this must be taken into consideration that cows, innocent, they give us milk, we take its milk, and we kill in regular slaughterhouse, this is not very good thing. It is sinful.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. I understand that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much.

Cardinal Danielou: (indistinct)

Yogeśvara: Does the fact that Christianity, does the fact that Christianity sanctions eating of meat mean that from the Christian viewpoint, lower species of life do not have a soul like human beings.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the Bhāgavata. Yogis, they try to see also other planets. They're inquisitive. Instead of going directly to the planet of Kṛṣṇa, they want to see intermediate planets, how they are working.

Bhagavān: Instead of an express to Goloka.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes. That is natural. Only the strong devotees, they don't like. "No, I don't want to see anything. I want to go immediately to Kṛṣṇa." That is strong devotion. Because they are after, mad after seeing Kṛṣṇa. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. For them, the whole universe is vacant for want of Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you love somebody, if he's not seen, you see, in spite of so many cars, you see the whole city of Paris, void, void. You don't give you any pleasure. A strong love for Kṛṣṇa. Śūnyāyitam. Śūnyāyitam means everything vacant. Without seeing Kṛṣṇa, everything is vacant. What is the value of this house or this city? He doesn't take. So higher planetary system means better standard of life. Just like if Indian comes here, materially, they see the higher standard of life in Paris, in London. But because we are interested in Kṛṣṇa, we do not take very much care of this higher standard of life. So higher planetary system means many, many thousand times better standard of life. Many, many thousand times. Just like Brahmaloka, the one day of Brahmā, described, you cannot even calculate mathematically. Just find out: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). This is the topmost planetary system, Brahmaloka, and the duration of life in Brahmaloka is described in the Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. Sahasra... S-A-H. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam.

Bhagavān: This is Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you always engage your mind in transcendental topics, naturally all other nonsense topics will be stopped. Or you'll have no interest in such topics. That is burned down. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anya... (SB 11.2.42). That is the test. If you increase your devotion, then you'll be not interested in ordinary things. Just like our devotees, they are no more interested in the worldly topics. They do not like to go to the cinema. That is no more interest. We can see the film of Ratha-yātrā, but we are no more interested to see ordinary film.

Bhagavān: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the word kṣetrajña...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhagavān: Kṣetrajña, the knower of the body.

Haṁsadūta: Kṣetrajña.

Prabhupāda: Kṣetrajña.

Bhagavān: Kṣetrajña. Is that for one who is differentiating himself from this body? In other words, a person who has realized that there is field and there is knower, is he given that title or is the person who cannot make that distinction, is he also given that title?

Prabhupāda: No. Anyone who knows that... That I have explained. That everyone is sitting on the floor. So everyone knows that he is not floor. He's different from the floor. Is it very difficult?

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Is that buddhi, that intelligence manifested in some way, in his service, or in his thinking?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because the process is devotion, bhakti. Bhakti means not idle. Activities. Bhakti is not idle gossip. It is something, activity. Therefore karmīs sometimes misunderstand that they are working like us. So where is the... what does it mean, bhakti? Just like Arjuna is fighting. But ordinary man will see that he's a soldier, he's fighting. What is this bhakti? But Kṛṣṇa certifies: "Yes, you are My devotee." By fighting, he's devotee. Because he's fighting for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is bhakti. Similarly, by the order of Kṛṣṇa, whatever you do, that is bhakti. Karmīs cannot see. Karmīs see... (break) ...tiki, laukikī, vaidikī. Laukikī means material activities. And vaidikī means according to Vedic instruction. Whatever you do, if it is done for Kṛṣṇa, then it is bhakti.

Yogeśvara: Laukikī and vaidi...?

Prabhupāda: Laukikī. Laukikī means ordinary, common activities. And vaidikī means Vedic. Just like a man is doing business as motorcars. So he has to do business as other motor car dealers do. So this is laukikī. It is not vaidikī. In vaidika instruction, there is no such thing, that "You do motor business like this." Therefore it is laukikī. So either laukikī or vaidikī, if it is done for Kṛṣṇa, it is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa also says: yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad... (BG 9.27). Yat karoṣi means whatever you do,... "Whatever" means the activity must be laukikī or vaidikī. "Whatever." There is no restriction, that only vaidikī. No. Even laukikī. Whatever you do. Find out this verse: yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi tapasyasi yat.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: ...understand Sanskrit.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one has got faith and devotion to God, God is one... God is neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is one. So religion means according to... Not according to... This is the Vedic conclusion.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

One must be religious. Without being religious, he cannot be satisfied. Therefore there is confusion, dissatisfaction all over the world because, because people have become irreligious. If you want to keep... In Calcutta, there was, in the American Consulate Office, I was invited. There, they have got a department: "Indo-American Cultural Society." Perhaps you know.

Ambassador: I heard about it.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, this is saṁsiddhiṁ paramām, highest perfection. What is the translation?

Pradyumna: After attaining Me, the great souls who are yogis in devotion never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.

Prabhupāda: That is the highest perfection. Nāpnuvanti, what is that?

Pradyumna: Nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah, mahātmānaḥ. This mahātmānaḥ means devotees of Lord. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā. Mahātmā means... Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Mahātmās, they are under the protection of spiritual energy, and what is the sign? That bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ. Find out this verse, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Just like we are under the material energy. This is called... This is also also daivī-prakṛti, but it is inferior. Parā-prakṛti and aparā-prakṛti. That is described. That real daivī-prakṛti is transcendental. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like heat and light. They are different energies of the fire. But heat or light, light is superior than the heat. Both of them coming from the same source. Heat and light. Just like sun. The heat and light. But we are more concerned with the light, sunlight. Similarly, the spiritual world and the material world, both of them are creation or emanation, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, from God. But the light energy is more perfect. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. What is that verse? You have found out? Read it.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, dadāti. That I have already explained. Dadāti. He must give. Give. Everyone goes to God to beg, "God, give us our daily bread." But one must go to God to give Him. If I do not give bread to Kṛṣṇa, he will be starving. This is devotee's mentality. Yaśodāmāyī, Yaśodāmāyī is thinking, Kṛṣṇa, "If I do not feed Kṛṣṇa well, my child will die." This is devotion. Otherwise everyone is asking from Kṛṣṇa. But Yaśodā-mā is thinking that "If I do not maintain Kṛṣṇa properly, He will die." Therefore he (she) is always trying to supply everything, mākhana, miśri. So real love begins when you try to give God. Everyone is trying to take from God, "Oh father, give us our daily bread." This is not pure devotee. This is good because he has approached God, but this is not devotion. It is not devotion, it is..., means business "God, give me something, then I will love you." Is it not?

Guest (1): But giving means, you know, giving part of what you earn, or some other way. When you say give...

Prabhupāda: Give means, you want to take something from God. "God, give me wealth, give me fame" Yaśo dehi.

Guest (1): No, if we want to give to God...

Prabhupāda: Yes, when you learn to give God. Generally...

Guest (1): Therefore, if a man feels empty, what he can offer?

Prabhupāda: No, no, empty... God says that you can give Him patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). You can give Him little flower, little fruit, little leaf, little water. He is satisfied. Not that you have to give millions of dollars. But if you have got millions of dollars, and if you think, "God will be satisfied with little fruit," that is cheating. God knows, "He is a cheater. He has got millions of dollars and offering me little leaf, little water." He is intelligent enough. He knows that he's a cheater. People do that. Bhakti in the mind God, and for others, garama garama puri. And for Kṛṣṇa, within the mind, meditate. (laughter) God knows that "He is a cheater number one. He is preparing puri for himself, and for Me he is meditating." What is this nonsense? How meditation will help?

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: She is young girl.

Guest: She is very devoted.

Prabhupāda: She has the advanced devotion. Therefore.... She is a young girl, she was not ashamed, so immediately she began to dance.

Guest: She has always been like that.

Prabhupāda: This is automatic, so this is not an artificial thing.

Guest: No, no she feels it. That is her mission.

Prabhupāda: No, I was very surprised how this nice girl.... Other girls they are also dancing. So this dancing, I was explaining to him that this dancing was not artificial.

Guest: It is from heart.

Prabhupāda: Ecstatic.

Guest: Ecstatic, yes. Otherwise nobody will get up at 3:30 in the morning.

Prabhupāda: Locovāca(?). Doesn't care that here is my mother, here is my father, here is my.... No. Effortless(?).

Guest: She says today she is going to the park to make a temple.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything has consciousness, but it is covered. The degree is of covering.

Umāpati: I was reading the writings of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in Jaiva Dharma.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Umāpati: And he is explaining the word "śraddhā," and he defines it in there as the tendency of the mind towards devotion without regard to jñāna or karma.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Śraddhā.

Umāpati: Śraddhā. And I have heard it variously interpreted as meaning "faith" or "belief," which really falls short of that interpretation.

Prabhupāda: What is that interpretation?

Umāpati: Could you elaborate on the definition of śraddhā?

Prabhupāda: Śraddhā is explained in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śraddhā means firm conviction. That is śraddhā. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supermost." So if you have firm conviction in Kṛṣṇa's words, that is śraddhā.

Umāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If you have doubts, then that is not śraddhā.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, that is their ignorance, foolishness. Therefore a devotee will not say like that. A devotee will say, tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ: (SB 10.14.8) "My dear Lord, I am suffering. It is due to my past mischievous activities, but you are rescuing me by giving little punishment. I would have been punished more, but you have given little punishment. Thank you very much." This is devotion.

Karandhara: Well, what if someone came here now to attack us, should I just sit there and watch him and say that...

Prabhupāda: No. Who said? You must fight.

Karandhara: Well, why? If we are attacked, then we must deserve it.

Prabhupāda: No, it may be that somebody is attacking even you do not deserve. So therefore you have got intelligence. You have got hands. You must try to protect. Just like one man is destined to be hanged, but still, he appoints a lawyer and tries to save him. He knows that "I have committed murder, I must be hanged."

Rūpānuga: And then God sanctions the judge. The judge can kill.

Karandhara: Well, that is why they say we must work to help poor people and starving people.

Prabhupāda: Why poor people? You starve. You are already yourself a poor people. How you can help them?

Karandhara: No, they say if we find poor and starving people, we must go and feed them.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Ataeva śānta. There is śānti. You have to test whether by, by some desire, whether you have become śānta. That is not possible except Kṛṣṇa. When you serve Kṛṣṇa, then you will feel transcendental pleasure. Otherwise you cannot. Sakali aśānta. For mukti they have to do so many things, so many things. So desireless means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. This is desire. "My life after life simply My devotion unto You may be fixed up." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the beginning He says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jaga... (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). "No, no, no, no," not this." Then there must be some positive. And the positive is: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. With simply negative, what you'll do? Simply negative? You must give something positive. Then you'll be satisfied. You are serving somewhere. You don't get sufficient salary. So you desire to give up this, this service. Resignation. But if you don't get any better service, then what will be the result of resignation? You'll starve. Again you'll go, "Master, I did wrong. Please give me that service." So that is... The Māyāvādīs' position is like that. They want to become merged into the Supreme. But that is not possible. After some time... āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They undergo very good auster..., severe austerities and reach the brahma-jyotir, but there, everything being vacant, they cannot remain there. And they have no information of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they again come down. Patanty adhaḥ. He wants enjoyment, but there is no enjoyment. Simply thinking, "I am Brahman." What is the enjoyment there? You think like a rascal Brahman. Yes, you are Brahman already. Why these sputnik wālās, they go...? (Laughter)

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is tattva-jñāna. This is jñāna. This is jñāna. Basic principle of jñāna is ananya-bhakti-yogena. That is the basic principle of jñāna. Then other things will automatically come.

Dr. Patel: Ajñānaṁ yad ato 'nyathā.

Prabhupāda: Therefore... Therefore in other place in Bhāgavata: harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. If one is not pure devotee of the Lord, he has no good qualification. That is not possible. Because here is also same thing. The basic principle is devotion. If that is lacking, then all this show, humbug, it has no meaning.

Dr. Patel: No, that is, we have said about the jñāna... (break) ...paraṁ brahma na sat...

Prabhupāda: Now, who is that paraṁ brahma? That Kṛṣṇa. Because Arjuna says, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma... (BG 10.12).

Dr. Patel: Brahman means Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Brahman is jyoti.

Prabhupāda: No, paraṁ brahma. Brahmajyoti, that is not paraṁ brahma. Paraṁ brahma is Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Paraṁ brahma is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ brahma is Kṛṣṇa. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). So paraṁ brahman is Kṛṣṇa. The jñāna means one who knows Kṛṣṇa, he has got knowledge. Otherwise he's a rascal. That's all. Maybe a big rascal or small rascal.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pure bhakti is ṣravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu-smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, that is pure bhakti. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: ...formed by anybody.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Karma-yoga.

Prabhupāda: Unless one is inclined to take to devotion, it is not possible to take to karma-yoga. Who can sacrifice the profit?

Yaśomatīnandana: Does karma-yoga mean to follow exactly the śāstras?

Prabhupāda: Karma-yoga means yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam.

Yaśomatīnandana: Doing only for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is karma-yoga.

Devotee: Which means?

Prabhupāda: "Whatever you do, the result give Me."

Devotee: To Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: So we are also, those who are on the vaidhi-bhakti (indistinct) on karma-yoga path because we are...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are acting under the order of the spiritual master. That is bhakti-yoga.

Bhāgavata: So when one follows the nine activities of devotion purely, that is pure bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhāgavata: Then when he's following those nine activities, then he's superior.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhāgavata: Then that's superior to karma-yoga, to follow those nine principles purely.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Makhanlal: Rāgānugā-bhakti is also superior to karma-yoga then?

Prabhupāda: Bhakti is perfect stage. That is not for ordinary man.

Yaśomatīnandana: What is the difference between karma-yoga and... or bhakti because they also (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Now go on doing your duty, you'll understand (indistinct). Don't try to understand in one day.

Bhāgavata: It will be revealed to us as we act.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. And to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, it does not require any expensive material. If you have nothing to offer, you can offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ. He will be satisfied. And performing this yajña and other, oh, you have got to collect so much ghee, so much grain, so much mantras, so many learned brāhmaṇas and this and that. You have nothing to do. Anywhere, any part of the world, universal. Any man, poor man, rich man, can offer Kṛṣṇa whatever He has got. Kṛṣṇa is satisfied.

Dr. Patel: Tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Bhaktya-upahṛtam aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ. Yes. "Because he has offered Me with faith and devotion and love, I accept it." So when Kṛṣṇa eats something from your hand, then what remains? You gain perfection. All perfection is there. If Kṛṣṇa is accepting something from your hand, "Yes, I will eat it." Then?

Dr. Patel:

yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi

yajjuhoṣi dadāsi yat

yat tapasyasi kaunteya

tat kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam

(BG 9.27)

Prabhupāda: Kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. Therefore this is bhakti-yoga. Whatever you do, the result you give to Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Whatever you do for Him and forget about it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you do for Him, how you can give Him? Because you are thinking that "I am doing for me," therefore you do not give to Kṛṣṇa. You keep it in your pocket.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How can you...

Indian Man (1): Well, I read it, I studied it.

Prabhupāda: No, no. After all, he's a brāhmaṇa, Hindu brāhmaṇa. How he can defy Kṛṣṇa? That is not possible.

Indian Man (1): On the contrary, he is also a bhakta of Kṛṣṇa, but he says that after bhakti, devotion...

Indian Man (5): Who?

Indian Man (1): Dr. Radhakrishnan.

Indian Man (5): President of India. (break)

Indian Man (4): Our book is there in London, not Vivekananda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. His books are rejected.

Indian Man (1): No, he has written from the different point of view.

Prabhupāda: No why, what right? That is the...

Indian Man (1): You are putting your idea. That is a bad decision.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Why you should put a different point of view? Just like Rādhākrishnan says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: (BG 18.65) "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Just see, how much rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa says, "You become My devotee," and he interprets, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Just see.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: So we have men who could teach this? Do we have men...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Because he knows how to teach. That's all.

Pañcadraviḍa: The brāhmaṇas, they all become devotee... They would all be engaged in devotional life as...

Prabhupāda: This is also devotion, to teach a kṣatriya, because this is necessary in the society. This is also devotion.

Pañcadraviḍa: And vaiśyas?

Prabhupāda: Just like when Kṛṣṇa is fighting. Kṛṣṇa is fighting, killing the demons. So that is also devotion, if you help Kṛṣṇa by killing demons, not that simply by chanting, you supply... Just like Bhismadeva. He even injured Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa took it very pleasant. Instead of throwing flowers, he pierced His body with arrow. So everything for the service. If Kṛṣṇa is pleased being pierced by the arrow the devotee will do that. His only business is how to please Kṛṣṇa. Just like, the example is given by Viśvanātha Cakravartī that when a man kisses a woman and bites her, she becomes pleased. Is it not? Is not a fact that that biting is pleasing? Is it pleasing? But sometimes it is pleasing. So one has to learn where to bite and when to... (chuckles) But if a rascal thinks that "Biting is pleasing. I shall bite always," then he is a rascal. (laughter) (break) ...lying down on the Yamunā beach, on the sand with His friends. And if we think, "No, there is no need of bedding of Kṛṣṇa. He was lying down on the Yamunā beach, so He will lie down on the floor." So is... That conclusion is very nice?

Mahāṁsa: No.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: That's what you're supposed to be doing.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But when you give the results of that for God, that's the perfection of your work.

O'Grady: I know that. I'm aware about that. And when you come in from working on the land and you are eating your dinner, you must do it with the same involvement as you worked the land with, if that is your purpose of...

Yogeśvara: You could say, with the same consciousness.

O'Grady: Yes, with the same consciousness, with the same dedication, with the same devotion, absolutely. And when there's supposed to be singing, the same way, enjoying yourself the same way, and when you're relaxing, you've got to do it with the same devotion, absolutely. No question about it. Otherwise you're being irresponsible. We should go. Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much for your coming.

O'Grady: We'll see you on Tuesday, hopefully. (guests leave) (end)

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: I have the impression that this translation is not very good because when you define the four states of life and you translate the two last ones by..., mainly the last one, by devotion for sannyāsin. Sannyāsin is not devotion. Sannyāsin is...

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I'll read that again. "then again there are four orders of life, namely the student life..."

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "...the householder's life, the retired and the devotional life."

Robert Gouiran: Oh, yes. Another way of the fourth translation, the fourth one.

Yogeśvara: He says that the word sannyāsin should be translated as renunciation instead of devotion. The stage of renunciation, instead of...

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of renunciation?

Robert Gouiran: Well, normal meaning.

Prabhupāda: No meaning?

Guru-gaurāṅga: The normal meaning.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: Just in order to get rid of the barriers which blocks the access of the spiritual plane.

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is devotion. To work on the spiritual plane means devotion, devotional service. That is spiritual. Otherwise what is the meaning of renunciation? Suppose you are working as scientist. You renounce. What do you gain? Unless you gain something better, then there is meaning of renouncing.

Robert Gouiran: I was taught... Well, if you are speaking about...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it has no meaning.

Robert Gouiran: ...etymology.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Robert Gouiran: Devoted means...

Yogeśvara: We were speaking about the verse in Bhāgavatam that says the perfection of all work is to attain that knowledge of the Supreme.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And to please Him.

Yogeśvara: So that is also the perfection for the sannyāsī; the perfection of his work also is devotion to the Supreme.

Prabhupāda: If you renounce something for zero, then what is the value of renunciation: There must be something better. Then you renounce. Otherwise what is the value of renunciation? To become zero?

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Pradyumna:

bhaktyā mām abhijānāti

yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ

tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā

viśate tad-anantaram

(BG 18.55)

"One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God."

Prabhupāda: So in another place also it is said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), mām evaiṣyasi, asaṁśaya. "If you want to enter in the kingdom of God, always think of Me," man-manā, "and you just become My devotee and worship Me and offer your obeisances." These four principles, it is not difficult. To achieve the kingdom of God is not at all difficult. It is very easy. Anyone can go. But they are not prepared to accept the process. That is their misfortune. Otherwise, always thinking of God. We are thinking something, but the thinking should be turned towards God. That is our teaching. They are always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So by uttering the word Kṛṣṇa, immediately you think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. It is not difficult at all. And you can always think of, just like these boys have been taught, walking on the street, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... Just like we have got this. I am talking with you, but two minutes I talk with you, as soon as I stop, I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma... What is the difficulty? It is simply practice. No difficulty. And simply by chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, everyone can see how these young boys and girls, they are not very old, they have taken to it quite young, but they have forgotten everything. They do not go to cinema, do not go to hotel, no dancing. Dancing they have got—Kṛṣṇa dancing, always. Painting they have got, singing they have got, arts, literature. We have got eighty books like this, four hundred pages. Pure life—no meat eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling. Finished. And it is guaranteed if you remain in this attitude, Kṛṣṇa says that "Surely you come back to me." What is the second line? Man-manā...

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but if you follow the rules and regulations, automatically, you'll love Kṛṣṇa. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. These are the stepping-stones. The devotional service develops by association. So if the associates are pure devotees, anyone who will come to that association will become devotee. (break) ...just like a young man and young woman. The devotion is there, love is there, but in the beginning, they should mix, or some presentation should be given, some, something eatable should be accepted, should be given. In this way, when the association is thick and thin, the love is there. The love is already there. It has to awakened by a certain process. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati ca ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. These are six types of loving principles, that you give, if you want to love somebody, you give something. And whatever he or she offers, you take from him. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti. You give him something to eat, and whatever he or she gives, you eat. Bhuṅkte bhojayate ca. And guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. And you try to understand his heart, and your heart be disclosed to him or her. If you follow these principles, automatically the loving propensity will awaken. It is already there. It is not artificial. It has simply to be awakened by a certain process. So that process we are prescribing, to rise early in the morning, have maṅgala-ārātrika, worship Deity, offer food stuff, eat prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyone who will follow this principle, he will become purified. There is no need of education, because the devotion is already there. By following these rules and regulations, it will be awakened. As, as, as in this straw, there is fire. Now, you ignite it, and just fan it, and the fire will come. It is already there, fire. But you know, you must know the process how to ignite fire. Huge fire will come. You can burn the whole garden from this straw. Is it not? So you must know the process, how to ignite fire. Fire is already there, in these trees, in these straws, in this grass. Fire is already there. That, that is the process. First of all, you must know that fire is already there. Now ignite. Then it comes more.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra:

prayāṇa-kāle manasā 'calena

bhaktyā yukto yoga-balena caiva

bhruvor madhye prāṇam āveśya samyak

sa taṁ paraṁ puruṣam upaiti divyam

(French translation) "One who, at the time of death, fixes his life air between the eyebrows and in full devotion engages himself in remembering the Supreme Lord, will certainly attain to the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Prabhupāda: This is bhruvor madhye.

Guest (3): (French)

Yogeśvara: He says: today, is it wise to practice this kind of meditation?

Prabhupāda: Useless. They cannot. It takes very, very, long time to get perfection. Vālmīki Muni got perfection in 60,000 years. Oh, Sixth Chapter. Read this, Arjuna uvāca.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, it is bhakti-yoga.

French Woman: Prapatti is different.

Prabhupāda: Prapatti is bhakti-yoga.

French Woman: You take it in bhakti?

Prabhupāda: Bhakti, yes. Prapatti means bhakti. Just like I can surrender unto you when I have got full faith and devotion unto you. Otherwise, I cannot. That is wanted. If we simply surrender to God, then everything is complete. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, the prapati is described, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19), this word: "After many, many births of philosophical speculation or personal endeavor to understand what is God, when he's actually wise, he surrenders unto Me." And it is said next line, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: (BG 7.19) "Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything." When he understands this, then his knowledge is perfect. But such kind of mahātmā, great soul, is very rare to be seen." (French)

Jyotirmayī: So she said that in..., it is also explained that those who are not intelligent enough to study, or who are out of caste, so they cannot, they don't have the right to study, then it is said that they can attain God directly by surrendering unto God.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Not thinking, "Oh, when will I go to Kṛṣṇaloka?"

Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't matter. You give him good advice. Just like a canvasser. He canvasses for selling some books or some... If does not sell, he is not a culprit. He has done his job. That is recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Devotee does not make any bargain with Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa will give me this benefit; therefore I have become pure devotee." That is not devotee. Prahlāda Mahā... He is a merchant, "You give me this price. I will deliver this clothing." That is not devotion. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu māṁ marma-hatāṁ karotu vā: (CC Antya 20.47) "Any condition, I am your slave. Whatever You like, you can do with me." That is the sign, not that "If it is favorable to my idea, then I accept You." That is not devotion. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), no desire. Only desire: "Please accept me as Your eternal servant again." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā: "Now, if You like, You can kill me; if You like, You can keep me. Whatever You like, I am prepared." Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. That is surrender. (break) Similarly, if we live on the nature's way, there is no problem. The extra brain and intelligence which we have from the lower animals, we are utilizing for the same purpose, the animal life. That lady was saying, "Now we are advanced, so..." (car comes by) It is our car?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: There is a camp. (break) We can return now. (end)

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Satsvarūpa:

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

nitya-yuktā upāsate

(BG 9.14)

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship me with devotion." (German) (break)

Dr. P. J. Saher: ...and when I was in Africa I saw the people are looking for the name and chanting like you chant. But they have a complete different idea of thought. My question is how can I know what is the right thing? From where do you know this?

Prabhupāda: But, as a human being you can study what you have seen in Africa and where you are seeing here. There's much difference.

Dr. P. J. Saher: I mean, my question only I saw singing the people...

Prabhupāda: No, just like these boys and girls, they are coming from Jewish group or Christian group. They have not come from India. Now how they're chanting and enjoying you can see.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So it doesn't matter, Kṛṣṇa or Christ. The name is there. And we are recommending according to Vedic scripture that in this age one should simply chant the holy name of God. We are chanting that,

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, they are the name of God. And Harā is the energy of God. So we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, or God, along with His energy. He has got two energies, spiritual energy and material energy. So at the present moment we are under the jurisdiction of material energy. So we are praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Kindly transfer me from the service of material energy to the service of spiritual energy." This is our whole philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means, "O the energy of God and O God, Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in your service." Because our constitutional position is to give service. Some way or other, we have been put in the service of the material energy. So this service can be transferred to the spiritual energy. Then our life is successful. That is our philosophy, bhakti-mārga, bhakti-yoga. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Here we are giving service as Hindu, as Muslim, as Christian, as Jain, as this or that. These are designation. Designation. When we become free of the designation and then serve God, that is called bhakti or devotion. Just like we have manufactured Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion, this religion, that religion. But when the religion will be without designation—I am neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian, but I am servitor of God—that is pure religion.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Without... If you don't stop meat-eating, you cannot understand what is spiritual life. A sinful life cannot understand what is God, what is devotion. It is not possible.

Guest (2): And is that the same for others...?

Prabhupāda: The sinful, yes. Four items we prohibit our students. They do not indulge. Illicit sex life, meat, fish, egg-eating, intoxication up to cigarette smoking, drinking tea, coffee, and gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. So unless one gives up these four things he cannot understand what is God, what is God's kingdom, what is our business. Nobody can understand.

Guest (2): Drinking tea and coffee also?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It is also intoxication.

Guest (3): Your Divine Grace, in a lot of scriptures I read there is a lot of references to breath and the breath as being the...

Prabhupāda: Breathing.

Guest (3): Breathing...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha will be very much pleased upon you. Yes. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Little service to God is taken as great service. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. So we should try always to give the best service, best energy, and you become liberated. Actually we cannot give any service to Kṛṣṇa. He is unlimited. What is the value of our service? But He takes it seriously: "Oh, he is trying to give me some service." Otherwise what service He needs from us? Suppose He has created these big universes, what service we can give? By His will, He can create millions of universes. What service we can give? We... No. These are the chances of service, this Ratha-yātrā. God is so great, so big, how we can pack up in the ratha. But this is a chance, that you get Him sit on the ratha and prepare it, manufacture it. Because your energy is engaged for His service, that is accepted. So this example... Just like a small child eating lozenges, and out of that, if he offers father, "Father, take it," and father takes it very serious..., "Ah, very nice." And what is that lozenges to the father? It is nothing. But because the child offers to the father in love, father takes it very seriously: "Oh, you are so nice. Yes, yes, give me." That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "A leaf, a fruit, a little water." What is the value of these? But yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: "Because he is giving Me in faith and devotion, I accept it." And what is this one piece of leaf and a fruit for God? It is nothing. He is being served by many thousands of goddess of fortune. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānam. Then what is the value of this leaf and flower and fruit? But still, He says, tad aham aśnāmi: "Yes, I eat them." And once God eats from your hand, then your life is successful.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: In the proper discharge of duty, one has to learn to tolerate nonpermanent appearances and disappearances of happiness and distress. According to Vedic injunction, one has to take his bath early in the morning even during the month of Māgha (January-February). It is very cold at that time, but in spite of that a man who abides by the religious principles does not hesitate to take his bath. Similarly, a woman does not hesitate to cook in the kitchen in the months of May and June, the hottest part of the summer season. One has to execute his duty in spite of climatic inconveniences. Similarly, to fight is the religious principle of the kṣatriyas, and although one has to fight with some friend or relative, one should not deviate from his prescribed duty. One has to follow the prescribed rules and regulations of religious principles in order to rise up to the platform of knowledge because by knowledge and devotion only can one liberate himself from the clutches of māyā (illusion).

The two different names of address given to Arjuna are also significant. To address him as Kaunteya signifies his great blood relations from his mother's side; and to address him as Bhārata signifies his greatness from his father's side. From both sides he is supposed to have a great heritage. A great heritage brings responsibility in the matter of proper discharge of duties; therefore, he cannot avoid fighting.

Prabhupāda: Duty has to be done despite all inconveniences. That is very important thing. The example is given that one has to take bathing early in the morning, but because it is cold, one cannot avoid it. He must bathe. This morning we had some meeting... (break) ...a little boy, but he was a great devotee, and father was a great atheist. So he was surprised that his son became so great devotee. After all, as a father he asked him, "My dear boy, what nice thing you have learned by your education?" He said, "My dear father, the best thing I have learned, that people are always full of anxiety on account of accepting material..." (break) ...exactly the same thing as you were... So one thing is that formerly it was the practice to go to the forest, go to the Himalaya, but in this age this is not possible. Therefore we have to take shelter of the Lord wherever we are, and that is Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: These are the definitions. One who is completely free from all sinful activities, they can become pure devotee. So even after becoming free from sinful activities, if one has got some motive, then he is also not pure devotee. Pure devotee means without any material motive: "God is great. I am His subordinate. I must love God. I must render service to God." This is pure devotee. And if I go to God, "Please give me my bread," that is not pure devotee, because he has got some purpose. As soon as his purpose is fulfilled, he may turn nondevotee. Just like one of my German Godbrothers said that in Germany during the last war, Second World War, many women used to go to the church to pray to God to get back their husband, son, or brother. But nobody came back. And they became atheist: "There is no God. We prayed so much, and my father did not come, my brother did not come, my son did not come." So motivated devotion is sometimes frustrated, and they become atheist. Therefore the devotee who has no motive is pure devotee. "In any condition, it is my duty to love God and to serve Him, not for my benefit but God's satisfaction." That is pure devotee.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: This is the definition of pure devotee. "If God satisfies me in my sense gratification, then I love God. Otherwise I have no connection with Him." That is not devotion; that is business. So business-type devotion is not devotion. It is devotion—it may be accepted as a pious activity, not devotion. Devotion is transcendental to pious and impious activity. Just like Arjuna was thinking to fight with his cousin-brothers and kill them is impious. But when he understood, "Kṛṣṇa wants this fight," he transcended the impious activity, and by the order of Kṛṣṇa he killed his relative. Therefore this devotion is above the position of pious and impious activity. Therefore it is called transcendental.

Guest (4): I am not clear on what you're saying that for someone...

Prabhupāda: It is clear. If you have got some motive and with motive you go to God, that is not pure devotion.

Guest (4): It is wrong to petition God?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not wrong, but it is not pure devotion.

Guest (4): I see.

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if you go to God, that is very good. With motive or without motive, you have come to God, that is piety. That is better than to become impious. Impious men, they do not go to God. Just like nowadays nobody goes to church. Church are selling. Simply... Temples also. So now there are in India so many township development. They are constructing very fashionable houses, but no temples. Nobody is constructing temple. At the present moment everybody has become disinterested with anything religion and God. All over the world. That is degradation. Especially I am seeing in Bombay, that Juhu scheme, very nice houses are being manufactured. You have all seen. But nobody is constructing a temple. The modern economists, they say "nonproductive endeavor"—means there is no income. Simply you have to spend money for maintaining the temple. So they are not interested in nonproductive things. So this is degradation of the human society. Either as Christian or Hindu or Mohammedan, nobody is interested. A few may be interested. (pause)

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if he gives to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He fought. He killed. Killing is not good business, but he killed on the advice of Kṛṣṇa, and he became a bhakta by killing. Kṛṣṇa said, bhakto 'si. And what did he do? He killed, that's all. This is an example. Of course, bhakta never kills. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna was not willing to kill. But when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants it, so this is my first business. Never mind I shall go to hell," that is Kṛṣṇa conscious. "By killing my brother I may go to hell. It doesn't matter. But Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. That is my first business." Kṛṣṇa sometimes pretended to be sick. And many physicians came, they could not cure Him, headache. So He suggested that "I think if My devotee gives their dust of foot on My head, then I'll be cured." Then every devotee was approached that "Give your dust of feet. Kṛṣṇa wants it." Even Nārada. So Nārada said, "How it is possible I shall give my dust of feet to Kṛṣṇa? No, no, no, it is not possible." But when the person, messenger, approached gopīs in Vṛndāvana and they were informed that "Kṛṣṇa is sick. So He wanted the dust of feet of the devotee to be applied on His head. Nobody gave it. So we have come last to you," so immediately: "Yes, yes, take it, take it." Immediately. So so much dust was collected. And Kṛṣṇa was cured. So this is gopīs. Others thought that "If I give the dust of my feet to Kṛṣṇa, I may go to hell," but the gopīs thought, "Let us go to hell, but let Kṛṣṇa be cured." Therefore the gopīs are the first-class devotee. They do not care for themselves. That is recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja-vadhū-vargabhir ya kalpitāḥ: "The process of worship as it was planned by the gopīs in Vṛndāvana, there is no comparison. That is the highest devotion." They did not care for themself. They simply wanted to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was playing flute at dead of night, all the gopīs were flying to Kṛṣṇa. His father, his husband—"Where you are going in this dead of...? Where you are going?"

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Emotion is not required for scientific knowledge. Emotion is not. Useless. It must be factual. Emotion is no use. Emotion is useful in high, ecstatic love. Not for scientific study of something you require emotion. No.

Carol: In the bhakti way of doing things, this emotion and love are very closely entwined, aren't they?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is higher stage. Not in the beginning. In the beginning devotion means I should be devoted to you. Why should I be devoted to you unless you are worthy? Just like Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So unless I understand that Kṛṣṇa is worth for my surrendering, He is worthy, why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa? If I demand, immediately you have come, that you surrender. Would you like to do that?

Carol: To surrender?

Prabhupāda: If I ask you that you surrender. I am meeting you for the first time. Would you like to surrender?

Carol: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I don't think. (laughter)

Carol: To want to and to do it is different.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: You live with us and you will become pure devotee. They are pure devotees. You live with them and do whatever they are doing, their examples, and you will become pure devotee. Just like in a workshop, if you admit yourself without any knowledge, if you work with the workshop man, gradually you will learn how to work. It is not difficult. Formerly this was the custom in India, that when somebody sends his son to any workshop or any shopkeeper without any pay, so gradually he learns. And the master says, "Now I engage you with some pay." That is the way. Sataṁ prasaṅgāt. By living with devotees, you'll learn devotion. So if you are serious, you are welcome. You can live with us and behave according to the other devotees. Then he's a...

Indian boy: Is it possible that I live on my own and still be a devotee?

Prabhupāda: That will take long time. That, also, if you follow the regulative principles... It is difficult, little. But easier method is to live with the devotees because the situation and atmosphere in your home is different from devotion. So it is not very helpful. You have got other members in the family?

Indian boy: Yes, there is...

Prabhupāda: So if you want to do something, they may not like it. So that is impediment. But if you live with the devotees, then you learn quickly the art. You are Indian?

Indian boy: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom you are coming?

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No. Bhakti is not stillness. That is neutrality. Stillness means you stop your material activity. That is stillness. But your material activities, when you stop it, that is stillness.

Jesuit: What is neutrality then?

Prabhupāda: That is neutrality, that neither spiritual nor material-on the marginal stage. It is called simply realizing how God is great. That is neutrality. But real devotion begins when one understands that "God is so great, I am rendering my service to this world uselessly. Why not render service to God?" That is called dāsyam, beginning of active devotion. We are active in the material world. It is useless. Simply wasting time and making one entangled in repetition of birth and death. Material activities. This is called pravṛtti-mārga. Pravṛtti-mārga means sense enjoyment. And for sense enjoyment we have to accept so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. Everyone is busy in sense enjoyment. The tiger is busy, the hog is busy, the dog is busy. The man also, if he becomes busy like tigers and hogs and dog, then he's going to become again the same species of life.

Jesuit: When he reaches a higher state of activity, where he really loves all mankind, and he loves God...

Prabhupāda: That is a kind of concoction.

Jesuit: A kind of?

Prabhupāda: Concoction, mental speculation. Why should you love mankind? Why not tiger?

Jesuit: Because they are my brothers and sisters.

Prabhupāda: So, brother and sister everyone loves? In the family, everyone loves his brother and sister. Does it mean that he's a very big man?

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they can waste very lavishly.

Yogi Bhajan: But they are very beautiful people. One of the girl there in your organization almost brought tears to my eyes. And it is very seldom I have tears, and I love them when they come. And she said to me, she just came and hugged me. "Oh, Yogiji, I love you, you came." I said, "Oh, don't tell anybody. I just want to go around. And I want to run away." So she knows me. And she took me to her one store where there where a lot of books, and she asked me to have some books, and some of them I had, some I didn't. So I picked up. And she said, "You know, we were raised like dogs. Now we are being raised like gods. You think this old man, our god, is going to stay with us?" You know, she is very young in your organization. I said, "What are you talking, a old man?" She said, "Our Prabhupāda." Then she took your whole name with reverence. And I looked in her eyes. I said, "Look, my dear daughter, if that man has taught you so much love, then you will never be separated. Keep doing what you are doing. You will be all right." There is devotion. There is a power to learn. There is a power to gain. They have many faults, but they have many merits also. I think it is a time to present them, as they perform of the humanist to the whole world. And that will take away a lot of misunderstandings.

Prabhupāda: No, misunderstanding, there are... That will continue. You see?

Yogi Bhajan: I hundred percent agree. When we wanted to join the...

Prabhupāda: Especially in the Western countries they had misunderstanding with Christ so that they crucified him. You see? So this is the...

Yogi Bhajan: We can do all that, and still, it will be useful.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we can... We can advise.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another thing. Just like if you get millions of dollars, ten dollars is already there. You haven't got to endeavor for ten dollars. Similarly, if one who is on the platform of soul... Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you understand the platform of soul, then you understand the other platforms: the intellectual platform, mental platform, bodily platform. And platform of knowledge, pratyakṣa, parakṣa, aparakṣa, adhokṣaja, aprakṛta. So aprakṛta is this platform of the soul. Kṛṣṇa's activities, that is aprakṛta, completely far beyond these material ideas, material platform. Material platform, pratyakṣa. Just like you want to see the arrangement. That is pratyakṣa. Then aparakṣa, accepting the authority's version. Pratyakṣa, parakṣa. Then aparakṣa, then adhokṣaja, beyond your mental speculation. Then aprakṛta, spiritual. Spiritual platform is not understood by machine, material machine. Then what is the spiritual platform? Kṛṣṇa is understood not by machine. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) "Through devotion only." So devotion is not machine. That is spiritual activity.

Harikeśa: So you cannot understand the consciousness of a devotee by testing his body.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: You cannot understand the consciousness of a devotee by testing his body or his mind.

Prabhupāda: No, consciousness means... That is mental platform. Consciousness is also in different platform, bodily consciousness, mental consciousness, intellectual consciousness, then spiritual consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is spiritual consciousness.

Harikeśa: So there is no way they can understand. No way.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yoga-kṣemam. Yes, that's all right, yoga-kṣemam. Read.

Upendra: Translation: But those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form—to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have.

Purport: One who is unable to live for a moment without Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot but think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship and surrendering fully to the Lord. Such activities are all auspicious and full of spiritual potencies; indeed, they make the devotee perfect in self-realization. Then his only desire is to achieve the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called yoga. By the mercy of the Lord, such a devotee never comes back to this material condition of life. Kṣema refers to the merciful protection of the Lord. The Lord helps the devotee to achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness by yoga, and when he becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious the Lord protects him from falling down to a miserable conditioned life.

Prabhupāda: But that requires faith. One who does not know what is God and what is protection, how he can take to it? He depends on his own energy. That is karmīs. He wants to happy by his own energy not only in this life but also next life, by acting very piously, wants to be promoted in the heavenly planets. That is fact. One can go. But that is on account of his own labor. But here the bhaktas, they are taken care of, the Supreme Lord. So just like child. He doesn't care how he will live comfortably. But the father takes care. That is the position of bhakta. The karmīs, they are taking care of themselves. But the devotees, they are taken care of by the Supreme. That is difference. What is that?

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: And mussels also. The black ones are called mussels. And also crabs.

Prabhupāda: (speaks to someone in Hindi) So you were hearing me talking just now?

Indian guest: Oh yes, Swamiji. Listening, part of the conversation I heard. (break) ...these college courses and units, and I realize that to teach a religious course which is a Vedic culture first needs devotion, second needs knowledge. And I need both of them. I lack both of them. And this is... But still, I can support this kind of...

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. Because you have a little desire to know, so that we have to take, a small fire, and we have to fan it. Then it will come, blazing fire. Kali-yuga means actually there is no brāhmaṇa, but whenever there is a little tendency of becoming brāhmaṇa, we take it, accept. Otherwise there is no question of pushing on this movement. Wherever there is little chance, we take advantage. That is our process. (break) Initiation means just to see, "Here is a little chance. He is coming forward. Take it, accept him, and fan it." This is initiation, not that "Now I am initiated, I become perfect." (break) Theological Union, when it was started.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Nineteen...

Prabhupāda: '62.

Dharmādhyakṣa: There are schools in the theological union that go back to 1850. In other words, there are... Around ten schools make up the union.

Brahmānanda: When was the union started?

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa:

naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu

nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā

bhagavaty uttama-śloke

bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī

(SB 1.2.18)

Translation: By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.

Purport: Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhāgavatas. There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.

The devotee Bhāgavata is a direct representative of Bhagavān, the Personality of Godhead. So by pleasing the devotee Bhāgavata one can receive the benefit of the book Bhāgavata. Human reason fails to understand how by serving the devotee Bhāgavata or the book Bhāgavata one gets gradual promotion on the path of devotion. But actually these are facts explained by Śrīla Nāradadeva, who happened to be a maidservant's son in his previous life. The maidservant was engaged in the menial service of the sages, and thus he also came into contact with them. And simply by associating with them and accepting the remnants of foodstuff left by the sages, the son of the maidservant got the chance to become the great devotee and personality Śrīla Nāradadeva. These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhāgavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhāgavatas one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily, with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord. The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhāgavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhāgavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhāgavata, and the combination of these two Bhāgavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on.

Prabhupāda: So we are giving this chance to everyone, devotee Bhāgavata and grantha-Bhāgavata, to get them raised from the lower condition of life. Kāma-lobha, lusty desires or greediness. This is the process. And practically you can see all these young men. They have no more lusty desires or greediness. They are also young men. They never ask permission from me any time, "Now, today, I want to go to the cinema." They have got all the monies in their hand. They never misspend without my permission. They are also young men, born in the western countries, addicted to so many bad habits. But they have given up. This is practical. Professor Judah has written me letter. You know him?

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Satsvarūpa: Sometimes devotees say, "Then how come he's the head of our sampradāya if he's not a pure devotee?"

Prabhupāda: It doesn't require. He is a devotee. That's all right. There are grades of devotee, but on the whole, a devotee is very exalted person. Just like gopīs. Nobody can be compared with the gopīs. There are so many grades of devotees, but they are ultimate. And amongst the gopīs, Rādhārāṇī. So there is no comparison, no more... Even Kṛṣṇa is defeated there. Kṛṣṇa became Caitanya Mahāprabhu to understand the devotion of Rādhārāṇī. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (break) (About something by the path:) ...queen. Elizabeth? No. Queen or king?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there a plaque there?

Brahmānanda: It's a symbol for something.

Harikeśa: They usually make justice to be like that. (break)

Satsvarūpa: Allegorical.

Prabhupāda: Allegorical?

Satsvarūpa: It's not a historial person. One lady represents learning, another... They represent different things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All, women. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...imperson.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.

Prof. Hopkins: What is the solution? What is the solution? Devotion to God...

Prabhupāda: First of all you know what is spirit. Then as soon as you know that you are spirit then wherefrom the spirit comes, or wherefrom everything comes? Then it comes to the question of God. And then we understand what is our relationship with God. And then if we act according to that, then it is perfect life.

Prof. Hopkins: So that you would... You would see the Gītā then as a guide to understanding.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Hopkins: It starts in Chapter Two with the question of what is ātmā?

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That is really, to realize God. Not only Christian, any religion. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). There may be different types of religious systems but that system is first class which directly leads one to understand what is God and how to love Him. That's all. That is perfect religion.

Prof. Hopkins: So the question... The question in one sense is not whether it's Christian or Śaivite or Vaiṣṇavite but whether it is directed to a knowledge of God, a devotion to God or not.

Prabhupāda: That is first-class.

Prof. Hopkins: But you would feel that there, what, it is easier to reach that goal by worshiping Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal.

Prof. Hopkins: But is it easier or better to be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Hopkins: A Kṛṣṇa bhakta than to be a Christian, say?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything genuine is easy. Anything hodgepodge, that is not good. We don't recommend hodgepodge.

Prof. Hopkins: So the advantage then, or the greater value is that it is focused and clear rather than a hodgepodge where the goal and the activities are not clear.

Prabhupāda: The hodgepodge has killed the whole world, that so many pseudo-religious systems. People are misled.

Prof. Hopkins: So the truth may be there somewhere...

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Brahmānanda:

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

nitya-yuktā upāsate

(BG 9.14)

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."

Prabhupāda: Perpetually. It is not that I am worshiping now and when I am perfect I become one. That is impersonal.

Prof. Hopkins: But someone who sees devotion as the not just a stage...

Prabhupāda: They say everything one; no devotee, no devotion, and no person. Everything becomes one.

Prof. Hopkins: So that would then be the deciding test, as it were, of whether one were a serious devotee or not.

Prabhupāda: Devotee means serious devotee.

Prof. Hopkins: Not only that one is devoted now, but that one sees the goal as perpetual devotion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nitya-yukta.

Prof. Hopkins: And which never is there...

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). By service only. You can understand God simply by service. There is no other way. And the faith begins from the tongue. You see? Therefore it is advised that you chant and take prasāda. Then faith will come. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. It begins... The faith begins from the tongue. "Why?" People will be surprised. "Faith must begin from the mind, from the eyes, and why it is said tongue?" They do not know. That is also faith, that "Simply engaging tongue in the service of the Lord, I shall understand." So this is also blind faith. But actually it is happening. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take{īūl prasādam. That's all.

Yadubara: So most of these people, they are so ignorant that we should try to engage them in works of devotion rather than explain...

Prabhupāda: This is devotion: "Please come here, chant with me, and dance with me, and when you are tired, take prasādam." That's all.

Jayādvaita: They had five thousand dollars worth of faith yesterday in the prasādam.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes. So whatever is said in the śāstra... Now, they say, "Faith begins from the tongue." "No," it is surprising. How is that? But it is a fact.

Baradrāj: So to encourage their faith, therefore the sādhu must set example of purity.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayādvaita: The scientists say that material nature is supreme, but because we're unable to accept nature as the supreme entity, different cultures have gotten different ideas of God. They've made these things up. The Greeks had one idea, the Romans had another idea, the Indians had one idea. So we've accepted that instead of accepting nature, although nature is actually the supreme.

Prabhupāda: No, God is realized only by the devotees. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). So actually, God is realized through devotion. There is no other way. So in the proportion of one's development of devotional spirit, one realizes God. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). The proportion, devotion, required. But real process is devotion.

Jayādvaita: But how can that be scientifically presented? How can we accept that scientifically?

Prabhupāda: No, no, these rascal scientists, they cannot understand God. Those who were actually advanced, just like Professor Einstein and others, they believed so, that there is God; there is brain. (break) ...somebody was talking about another scientist, big scientist? Who was talking about?

Jayādvaita: That Werner Von Braun.

Prabhupāda: Ah, hah.

Jayādvaita: That space scientist, he has accepted that there must be God.

Prabhupāda: He has, yes. So those who are really scientist...

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are also destroying so many cows daily, although you are human being. Do you consider that "Why this cow should be slaughtered?" They are also living beings. So what about the animals? If man can slaughter so many animals daily, then if a tiger kills another one animal, what is the wrong there? That is the distinction between man and animal. Everyone has to eat somebody, and nature's law is one living being is eating another living being. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. So the snake is eating the frog, the frog is eating another small animal or some flies, and the snake is eaten by the mongoose, and the mongoose eaten by somebody else, by cat or by dog. So this is the law of nature. Therefore the human being is suggested that "You should take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Eating is required, but you don't eat like the lower animals. You take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "Anyone who is offering Me with devotion and love leaves, vegetables, fruits, flowers, milk, that I take." So we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. So that is our philosophy—we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Although there is also... Maybe not killing. Because if I take this flower from the tree, the tree is not killed. If I take grains from the paddy... What is called?

Bhojadeva: Plant?

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If he is making progress, he must feel. If he is not making progress, then he will not feel.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: And that feeling is a willingness to serve Kṛṣṇa or...

Prabhupāda: No, that is always. Whether he is actually serving Kṛṣṇa... That is devotion. So if he is actually serving Kṛṣṇa, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt bhajana-kriyā. Bhajana-kriyā means anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. This is the result. If his anartha is not decreasing, or becoming zero, then he is not making bhajana. He is doing something else.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: And if he's not feeling increased ecstasy, then he should try to change his position or try to perform...

Prabhupāda: No. There is no change of position. Position is the same.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: Because once this question was asked that... In class a devotee asked that "I'm losing my taste for serving the Deity, and I don't know what to do," and so they asked this question. So...

Prabhupāda: He can chant. There is no question of "I am losing interest." If he is actually following the rules and regulations, there is no question of losing interest.

Hari-śauri: There is never any decrease.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: You mean if one simply follows everything that is outlined in the temple schedule and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That should be strictly followed.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Hopelessness. When we see in our association all these girls. They are so nicely, well qualified. Whatever they are taught, they immediately pick up.

Kartikeya: In America they were asking my wife how Indian women are able to keep such devotion for their husbands. So they are actually very much interested and envious of this situation in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the nature. That is... They want to be a faithful wife, but there is no husband. Where to become faithful?

Harikeśa: So then they want to become liberated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Being hopeless repeatedly, now they want liberation. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) Jaya. (break) ...samājīs?

Kartikeya: There are many. They fight with us. Over in office, when they come, they speak such ill words about many of our religious leaders and God. They are so much brainwashed, completely brainwashed. They call themselves Hindus, but they do not want to follow any God, only brahma-tattva or Brahman. They believe in the Vedas...

Madhudviṣa: Actually they are atheists.

Prabhupāda: Nāstika.

Madhudviṣa: Like Vivekananda.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: That is māyā. He is serving a dog, and still, he is thinking he is master. That is māyā. Instead of serving a nice person or the nice Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, he is serving a dog. But he is thinking that "I am master." This is māyā. māyā means which is not fact. He is serving, but he is thinking that he is not serving, he is controlling, or something like that. That is māyā.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the desire to be worshiped is unnatural.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (to someone entering:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. Jaya. This is the beginning of devotion, to be submissive. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). This is the beginning, praṇipāta. This is praṇipāta, fall down, full surrender. That you have... Therefore you are making progress. Tad viddhi praṇipātena. Question? Praṇipātena paripraśnena. Praṇipāta is done. Now you can question.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do you have any question?

Indian: I can't think of one now.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said he can't think of one right now.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Last night you were present in the meeting? Read our books very carefully, and as soon as there is some doubt, inquire. Here wooden house, practically none.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mostly bricks.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Dr. Patel: Second reading of mine. On the first reading I just...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they read our books for the purport.

Dr. Patel: But you have collected from, I mean, two, three, four or five...

Prabhupāda: Dimmock said that "Here is the commentation who has practiced devotion in his life."

Dr. Patel: I mean, those who are research scholars, they can write down better about their work if... If I write down about the...

Prabhupāda: He cannot write the...

Dr. Patel: ...write down that way. Because you have done it, you can do it better.

Prabhupāda: That is our mission. Āpani ācār prabhu jīver śikhāmu. First of all you behave yourself, then teach. Without being accomplished in your life, don't teach. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement was that. Āpani ācār prabhu jīver śikhāmu.

Dr. Patel: You teach by your action.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...alpa citte bahu kori mane. This is the warning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Dr. Patel: The Vaiṣṇavas, I mean teaching is that the Vaiṣṇavas should not see any faults in the sādhus or the sannyāsīs. Just look at the good side, then...