Prabhupāda: ...have no attachment. These are all nonsense. You cannot be (indistinct). A living being, to become desireless, how you can? I am living. I am not a dead body. Desire should be to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Attachment should be for Him. That's all. You have to change. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have now attachment for sense gratification, desire for sense gratification. This has to be changed. Purification of desire, purification of attachment. Tat paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Eyes, because it is diseased, you don't pluck out. This is nonsense. Cure the eyes of the disease, then you will see things right. The Māyāvādī philosophy is pluck out the eyes. Buddha philosophy is make it zero. That is also same thing, plucking out. Our philosophy is "No. Cure it." That is the difference. It is very simple. Which one is better? Just like a man is suffering from disease, fever, and doctor gives him medicine. He dies. Then the patient's guardian says, "Sir, he is dead now. You have given some medicine, he is dead." "That's all right, fever is gone. Fever is gone. Never mind he is dead." (laughter) These rascal philosophy statement is like that.
Desireless (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hṛdayānanda: And a devotee has no material desires. (He wants) to serve Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And unless one is factually desireless, he cannot be happy. The karmī, jñānī, yogi, they are all full of desires. Therefore they are unhappy. Karmīs are the lowest of the unhappies, jñānīs are little advanced, yogis are little more advanced, and the perfection is the bhakta, devotees. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). This is bhakta.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now before these motorcars, people were walking on foot. All business was being done. But we wanted a machine like that, so Kṛṣṇa has given us brain to manufacture. That's all. But what you will benefit by this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up all this nonsense proposal." But they will not do that. They will create another nonsense desire. That desire should be stopped. That is desireless. Because they will go on simply proposing some nonsense desire... That is their material existence. Now, they have discovered this, made this motor, nice... Now there is problem, no power, gasoline. And if the gasoline is stopped, then your whole endeavor is gone. So this is their business. They are manufacturing something which will entangle him more and more. That he does not know.
Prabhupāda: What do you have to say about this? Do you understand, desireless and desireful?
Satsvarūpa: People some... Pseudo transcendentalists, they sometimes criticize us like that. They say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, you're just too active." They're think that we're fruitive, always running around, always trying to sell books, always very active. That's because they don't understand that desirelessness. They talk like that, and then they'll smoke a cigarette the next moment as they criticize us. They say, "You should not have to do anything if you're transcendental. Why do you have to work so hard?" And then they'll show that they have some very gross desire.
Prabhupāda: Just like this śloka we were studying today. Kṛṣṇa becomes sārathi. Does Kṛṣṇa go to become sārathi of a rascal and fool? He becomes sārathi of Arjuna. That has to be seen. And without any qualification: "Kṛṣṇa, become my sārathi." Kṛṣṇa's not so easy. First of all qualify. First deserve, then desire. First deserve, then desire. So how a Kṛṣṇa conscious person can be desireless? The first is desire. "I desire to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is the beginning. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you chance as you deserve. This is the process. And that is explained: anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). When you become completely desireless for anything material, then bhakti begins. That is desirelessness. Desirelessness means when becomes free to desire anything except Kṛṣṇa. That is desirelessness. Desirelessness means not to desire anything material. That is desirelessness. Their Māyāvādī philosophy that "Everything is māyā, and therefore Kṛṣṇa is māyā." That is called Māyāvādī. They do not know the distinction between māyā and reality. Everything māyā. Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs.
Gurukṛpā: Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So Kṛṣṇa is also mithyā. That is their philosophy. And therefore in the Bhāgavata it is beginning: paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Satyam, not mithyā. Mithyā you can reject. Unless you find out paraṁ satyam. But that they do not know, what is paraṁ satyam. Therefore Bhāgavata gives: oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. (pause) The word is anyābhilāṣitā. Anya-abhilāṣa. Anya means "other than Kṛṣṇa." Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), being completely freed from any other desires, jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam... (CC Madhya 19.167). Jñāna, the jñānīs, they also desiring liberation. The jñānīs, they have got desire. How they are desireless? Because they are aspiring after mukti. The yogis, they are aspiring after siddhi. Karmīs, they are aspiring after better condition of life. So these things should be completely free. Then he's desireless. If you are desiring mukti, where is your desirelessness? Just see. How they are bluffing! They want to become mukta, and still, they say "desirelessness." Here is your desire. Just see the defect. Eh? Why you are desiring mukti?
Gurukṛpā: Then they argue that you also want to, you desire to serve Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, therefore I say desirelessness means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. That is desirelessness. Even if you... We are not after mukti. We, we can go to the hell to serve Kṛṣṇa.
Gurukṛpā: Mama janmani janmanīśvare...
Prabhupāda: Ah! Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahai... (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). That is... There is no question of desirelessness. We desire for Kṛṣṇa. That is desirelessness. Just like a diseased man, if he desires for healthy life, is that bad thing? To desire for further disease, that is desire. That is bad. Therefore I say, you cannot give up desire. That is not possible. You have to purify your desires. But when you desire for Kṛṣṇa, that is desirelessness. To become free from disease, that does not mean you have to stop eating. In the diseased condition, you are eating. As soon as you want to desire, that "Let me, give me this nice food," but you cannot eat on your diseased condition. It will be tasteless. You simply desire, but you cannot enjoy. But same you, man, when the disease is gone, you enjoy that same food very nicely.
Prabhupāda: The desire which gives you happiness, that is wanted. The desire which gives you distress, that is not wanted. Therefore Bhāgavata begins with dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra: (SB 1.1.2) "The cheating type of religion is rejected." Because in every religion there is some desire for material objective, up to mukti. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī. General people, karmīs, they want pleasure, material pleasure. The jñānīs, they want mukti, and the yogis, they want siddhi. They're everyone beggars. And a bhakta kicks them all out. "We don't want anything. Simply Kṛṣṇa. That's all." Therefore he's desireless.
Gurukṛpā: Kṛṣṇa-bhakta—niṣkāma ataeva śānta (CC Madhya 19.149).
Prabhupāda: Ah! Ataeva śānta. There is śānti. You have to test whether by, by some desire, whether you have become śānta. That is not possible except Kṛṣṇa. When you serve Kṛṣṇa, then you will feel transcendental pleasure. Otherwise you cannot. Sakali aśānta. For mukti they have to do so many things, so many things. So desireless means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. This is desire. "My life after life simply My devotion unto You may be fixed up." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: They go very high and again come down? Here is... Why you are coming? You have gone so high. There is no shelter. There is no shelter. He must come down. Similarly, to become desireless, there is no shelter. So you must come to this desire, material desire.
Prabhupāda: No, you say that "You order Kṛṣṇa what you think."
Dr. Patel: I don't say you order. You... Automatically He fulfills your desire. There is no question of your ordering.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we should be desireless.
Dr. Patel: Desireless, yes. But desireless...
Prabhupāda: Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That is bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Anyābhilāṣitā means "As God desires, let it happen." Not according to my desire. That is bhakti. As soon as you impose your desire, that is not bhakti. Why should you impose your desire? God is ready to fulfill the desire of His devotee immediately. He's so ready. But a devotee never desires. He does not like to bring God to fulfill His desires. No, that is not a pure devotee.
Guest (1): But he has surrendered and he feels that "God gives me what we require."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: Well, they come to the point of trying to give up all material desires. But at that point they say there's nothing, there's no self...
Prabhupāda: That is their ignorance, or they do not understand, or they do not try to explain because the followers will not understand. That is our also point, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167), to become desireless. But after becoming desireless, what is it? Just like you become painless from the disease. That means painless means everything finished? Then let me enjoy this pain. After being painless means everything is finished. No. Painless means no material pain but spiritual life. That is painless. (French)
Karandhara: Their point is they come... Zen Buddhism or Buddhism goes as far as trying to obliterate the material ego.
Prabhupāda: No, it is clear as you said, as you said that unless he becomes desireless. That desire means material desire.
Karandhara: Yes. That's actually what they're speaking about when they say desire.
Prabhupāda: So they are not so advanced that there is spiritual desire. That they do not understand. But so far the material desirelessness, that is accepted by us also. (French) It is something like this. Just like a child without education at home is simply doing mischief. So the parents want to make him mischievousless. But if the parent does not know that he should be given better engagement, otherwise it cannot be mischievousless, that he does not know.
Karandhara: They say the aim is the practice itself. Just like we say the aim of devotional service...
Prabhupāda: No, no, the aim is there. Aim is there. He says that to become desireless. That is the aim. So why does he say that there is no aim?
Pṛthu Putra: When he is talking about practice, he's talking about special practice, the zazen practice. And his concept in zazen, his concept of Buddha, is this disciplic succession, that to practice under the guidance of the spiritual master of this disciplic succession of zazen from Buddha. That is his practice.
Prabhupāda: No, if he says that "There is no aim; you go on practicing," so aim is there, he says, that to become desireless. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says zazen is in himself the satori, is the practice. We don't practice to get the satori, but the satori is going automatically with the practice.
Prabhupāda: No, no, the aim of practice is to become desireless. Is it not? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says the goal of the practice is to become without goal.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is nonsense. (chuckles) What is this nonsense? Goal is without goal. Then what is this? These are vague terms.
Karandhara: It's like saying nothing is true, but then that's a truism.
Prabhupāda: It is darkness.
Prabhupāda: Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to.... By nature's law. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Because mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, (indistinct). There are three qualities—sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa and mixed up. At first mixing it becomes nine and again mixing up it becomes 81. Each quality there are thousands and thousands of varieties and that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of life. So, it is by the God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and award the quality. It is not man-made law. That there may some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, whether small pox or whatever or (indistinct), you must develop. Therefore desireless. Desireless means material desires. Material desires begins with this designation.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to accept similar body, by nature's way. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Because the mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, he got this body. There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Now you mix up. By first mixing it becomes nine, and again mixing up, it becomes eighty-one. And each quality, there are thousands and thousands of variety. And that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of forms of life. So it is very... God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and awards the body accordingly. It is not man-made law, that there may be some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, either smallpox or cholera or this or that, you must develop that disease. Therefore we should be desireless. Desireless means material desire. That material desire begins with the designation.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They think that actually that we're suffering from so many desires, that we must be very poor creatures because we become devotees.
Prabhupāda: So why so many desires? Because one desire is not complete, therefore you desire next. Therefore the process of desiring is defective, and our process is to purify the desires, not to remain in the imperfect platform of desiring, but whatever desire you have got, just purify it. Then it will be satisfied. So desire produced by bodily concept of life will never be satisfied. Therefore some of them are trying to become desireless, the impersonalists. Nirvāṇa.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), "Don't desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.
Lokanātha: They want to be desireless.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the karmīs may argue that to become desireless is against the natural order. Because we see that right from the beginning of our life we're desiring so many things.
Prabhupāda: Desireless. When he will desire less, you convince. They're always desiring.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then where is desireless?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we're saying anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11).
Prabhupāda: Anya, anya means anyathā. You are servant, you should always desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your natural. And if you don't want to serve, that is anyathā. Anyābhilāṣa. That is anyābhilāṣa. Anya means other, abhilāṣa means desire. So everyone has got desire, but that desire should be natural, according to position. But if you desire something else, nonsense, then you suffer. That... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). You are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, so you desire only how to serve Him. Why you are desiring otherwise? They will suffer.
Guru-kṛpā: Then they say, "Why you desire to serve Kṛṣṇa?"
Prabhupāda: Huh? That is not desire. It is a natural. That is natural. Obedience to Kṛṣṇa, that is my natural business. Servant's business is always ready: "What can I do, sir?" This is not desire. This is natural position. He's not desiring anything. He's simply ready, "What can I do?" Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). That is, he's not desiring anything. Desire means when I want something for my satisfaction, that is desire. (break) ...mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya. He's simply expecting what spiritual master will order. Citta. Āra nā koriho... He has no other desire. That is desirelessness. (break) Desireless means a wooden stone. It has no mind, how it can de.... But every living entity has got mind, so this is desirelessness, that "I'll wait for the order of my master and immediately execute." That is desirelessness. .... (break) stop functioning, then what is the meaning of guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **? That means awaiting the order from the mouth of guru. Āra nā koriho mane. He has no other desires. That is to be under.... (break) Nirvāṇa, nirvāṇa means that you give up all material desires. Not that "But he did not say anything more than that." Because it was meant for the fourth-class men, so he did not say. He simply asked that you finish this material desire.
Prabhupāda: Somebody is trying to stop sense activity. That is not possible. The sense activity should be cleansed. That is wanted. Otherwise how would he say hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanam (CC Madhya 19.170). If you completely reject your senses then how we can serve Kṛṣṇa? It has to be purified. That is devotional service. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarnane (SB 9.4.18). Manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ, fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa, then your talking will be purified, your walking will be purified, your handling will be purified, your hearing will be purified, everything will be purified. You cannot be desireless. But if we simply desire Kṛṣṇa, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Anyābhilāśitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (BRS 1.1.11). Our activities are going on on the platform of karma and jñāna. Or little more on yoga. Karma, jñāna and yoga. So one has to give up all these, karma, jñāna. The karmīs are working for sense gratification. The jñānīs are working for being liberated. The yogis are working for some magical power. Aṣṭa-siddhi. So one has to become free from all these desires. Anyābhilāsa-śūnyam, anyābhilāsa-śūnyam, jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply you should be prepared to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa.
Bhavānanda: Then how to get free from those desires?
Prabhupāda: Free means desire should be purified. That means desires should be to render service to the Lord. That is real purification. The example is given, just like gold. There are impurities. That impurities, you cannot cleanse it simply by washing. You have to put into the fire. When it is melted then automatically all the dirty things are gone. His natural position is part and parcel of God, to render service to God. So unless he takes up that thing, there is no question of desirelessness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is demanding, "Surrender." And as soon as he surrenders, then material desires become vanquished. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Otherwise, the... He cannot rectify one desire by another desire. That is not possible. Then it will produce another desire.
| Page Title: | Desireless (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Archana, Labangalatika |
| Created: | 17 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=20, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 20 |