Description (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"description" |"description's" |"descriptions" |"descriptive"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...when the sun rises? After tilaka?

Prabhupāda: No, no, tilaka should be done after bathing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then when should the Gāyatrī be said? Right after...

Prabhupāda: After tilaka. Gāyatrī mantra is description of the sun. (break) ...our land?

Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Jayapatāka: This is wheat growing here.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jayapatāka: This is wheat growing.

Prabhupāda: This land?

Jayapatāka: This is not our land.

Prabhupāda: And this? Up to this...?

Bhavānanda: This is our land, and this is our land. This is not. (break)

Jayapatāka: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Would it be nice to have lampposts here? Little lampposts to light the road?

Prabhupāda: It is cold. (laughs) Bare? No. That's nice. Hike for(?) barefooted. It is there, up. (break) You have to make little shade like this, just like upon the wall the shade is there. You make to the walls so that the water may not spoil the painting.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: In London you said that you were changing crows to swans.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dayānanda: It is impossible to change a crow to swan but you are changing crows to swans.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, in reading the description of Jagāi and Mādhāi, they don't seem as bad as we were.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) We shall go this way? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we have time.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha: "I am lower than the Jagāi Mādhāi."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And to utter my name..." I think the next verse he says, "To utter my name will bring all..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mora nāma śune yei tāra puṇya kṣaya: "If one takes my name, then whatever little pious activities you have, it is spoiled." Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha (CC Adi 5.205), jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha. Mora nāma śune yei tāra puṇya kṣaya. How humble he is.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Rādhāvallabha: What is it?

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda said we can make a photo album of all these pictures. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...ISKCON temples all over the world.

Rāmeśvara: You told us to make one book also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Little description and...

Pañcadraviḍa: That would be very good for preaching.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: With our equipment, we can make these photos in any size.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So do it. (break) ...Auckland?

Rādhāvallabha: Madhudviṣa?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is the same house in Auckland and, New Zealand?

Rādhāvallabha: Gribblehurst Road.

Prabhupāda: Where I went?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, I can see it. Gribblehurst Road. Same house. This is the old temple in Houston. They're buying a new one.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Boston, oh, it is very nice.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Now, the Vedic civilization is "All right, you are not satisfied, one woman, don't pollute the innocent girls or in the home. Go to the prostitute." Still, in big, big cities, there is a quarter, prostitute quarter, still. They are professional prostitutes.

Pañca-draviḍa: What was the Vedic punishment if somebody broke these moral principles?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañca-draviḍa: What would be the punishment in a Vedic society if somebody...

Prabhupāda: Oh. Picture, Fifth Canto. You see the description of the hell.

Pañca-draviḍa: Hell. But I mean, within the society itself, there was punishment there also from the king?

Prabhupāda: Everyone who will commit sinful activities will be punished. That is nature's law. Exactly like that: If you infect some disease, you must suffer from that disease. The nature's law is so strict, and it is going on. It doesn't require any supervision. The supervisions are already made so perfect. You infect this disease: you suffer from it. That's all.

Pañca-draviḍa: In.... In the society, if somebody would be...

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, if you break the laws, you suffer. Anywhere.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...mana, buddhi, ahaṅkāra. And then false identification, ahaṅkāra, then soul. And the soul is so fine. I have given the definition. How they can see, "There is soul"? Dr. Kapoor: But in the ātmā, you see.... You have given a very beautiful description. The smaller the part—as they call it, potency—more powerful it becomes. So you see, they think that the bigger thing is more powerful, but here science has also proved that greater the potency, the smaller the dose, smaller the size. So similarly, as you describe that what is soul? It's fractional, fractional, fractional, fractional.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Fractional. It is smaller than the atom.

Dr. Kapoor: Final measure, the smallest fraction of anything, is soul.

Prabhupāda: One ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair.

Dr. Kapoor: Sir, even that has been measured by measuring instrument. I think it is.... You can describe it. But it is smaller part, infinite smallest part of an atom.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it has been measured out. How the measurement is stated? It doesn't.... When the statement is there about the measurement of the soul, it was done. Otherwise how it is described in the śāstra?

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever. Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying. Similarly, we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body, we are not dying. We remain. But we simply accept another body. So this is a great botheration. But people are in ignorance. They're thinking that after death there is no life. This ignorance is a great, I mean to say, difficult position. So we are trying to educate them how to get out of this entanglement of cycle, birth and death. And therefore there are so many books on this subject matter. It is a very serious movement. It is not compared to the so many rascal movements. So if you are serious, you can study our books, you can try to understand the philosophy, science; then the whole human society will be benefited.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (2): Aldous Huxley liked to think of the idea that there's no controller, so that he could enjoy without the feeling of guilt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the whole idea. Thieves and rogues, they think "If there's no government, then we can do whatever we like." Who is there of the thieves and rogues?

Hari-śauri: That description's given when after the brāhmaṇas killed King Vena, they saw a great huge dust cloud on the horizon from all the thieves and rogues rushing back into the kingdom (laughing) when there was no ruler.

Devotee (2): Why doesn't he come to his senses there and then that "What have I done? Why don't I become God conscious?"

Prabhupāda: That is māyā. Just like they surfer. What is that? They are in hell. But they have no sense that "What you are enjoying? It is hell." They are thinking they are enjoying. Is that enjoyment? It is actually hell. But he's thinking he's enjoying. That is called māyā. He's accepting something what is not. That is māyā. Hog eating stool, and he's thinking he's enjoying. This is called māyā. There are different grades of suffering, and still they are thinking they are enjoying.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: What about when someone goes to the hellish regions though? He actually suffers there?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Of course. But he thinks that "I am enjoying."

Hari-śauri: Oh. 'Cause after reading the descriptions in the Bhāgavatam, it seems it's pretty horrific.

Prabhupāda: Well, when one is accustomed, then he thinks it is enjoyment.

Hari-śauri: Oh, and then he goes into another body to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: They're going to become fish. Now they are being trained up how to become fish. So after this body is finished, they'll take a body of fish. When one becomes fish he doesn't know that this is punishment. He says that it is very nice. Concession by māyā, that he's put into suffering, but he'll think that "I am enjoying." This is mercy of māyā. (break)...anesthetic in surgical operation. Surgical operation, that is suffering, but if you apply some anesthetic, you do not perceive. It is like that.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Destroy...

Hṛdayānanda: They predicted a comet that never came.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Fifth Canto you wrote that the planets are being pulled in their orbits by chariots. Just like there is a description of the sun planet, and there is very elaborate...

Prabhupāda: That is movement. Now, according to their calculation, sun is fixed up, but according to our calculation it is moving. That is the difference.

Rāmeśvara: And it is actually being pulled by a chariot and horses.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is moving. Either chariot or on leg. That does not.... It is moving. Moving is the point. Either on chariot or on leg, that doesn't matter. Sun is moving. But they say sun is fixed up.

Trivikrama: They say it's moving, but not the way we say, around the earth.

Prabhupāda: No, they do not say.

Trivikrama: They say it has it's own...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Sun is fixed up.

Rāmeśvara: It is moving by manipulation of air, just like our airplane is moving by manipulating the air.

Prabhupāda: First of all, solve this question, that how...?

Rādhāvallabha: You had us on that one.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Good patient. (laughter) And then after? He revived?

Hari-śauri: No. He was still in a coma. It was just an article that he'd been in a coma for so long, and there was no hope that he would revive or anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That description you give in the Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda, at the time of death.... It's in the Fourth Canto. It's very, very graphic. During that Purañjana, the story of Purañjana, how the fire starts to build, an attack is given on the kingdom. Oh, boy, anyone who reads that will become very much...

Rāmeśvara: Sober.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...sobered up. These books are a real slap. They make you awake very quickly. We always.... I used to lecture from that to the new men to bring them out of their māyā quickly. People don't like to think of death. They try to forget it. It's so fearful to them. And that brings all of the horrors of death very graphically in front of them. You describe how the soul is kept.... The body is burning like a big fire, and the soul is trying to get out, but all of the holes are blocked. Just like a man in a house that's burning and he can't get out. Fearful condition.

Rāmeśvara: (break) ...numbers of men, big temples, it is all due to our books, to your books. So I was thinking that if one day this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement becomes so powerful that even it is giving instruction to governments, that will also be because of...

Prabhupāda: That is very easy. If you increase the number of your devotees, government hears you(?). That is not very difficult thing. Simply you have to increase our supporters; then the government is there.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: These church fathers that we've just done on the philosophy book, they are simply speculating about what was in the original Bible.

Prabhupāda: No clear conception, scientific idea. Therefore educated persons, they are not interested. "God, give us daily bread." They will say, "Why we shall go to church for begging bread? We can manufacture it, large quantity." (laughs) Why they should go? Formality: "God, give us our daily bread." "Just open a big factory and eat as much bread as we like. Why should we go to God?" (break) ...Jawaharlal Nehru, he took this view, that "For economic development why should you go to the temple, ask this demigod, that demigod, 'Give me this. Give me this'? Develop industry and get money to enjoy." That is his.... (break)...description of God in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). This is God, the origin of everything. Who is there who can challenge this explanation, "The origin of everything"? Now, what is that origin? Whether it is matter or sentient? No. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś ca abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He knows everything. Therefore He's a person. Otherwise, how He can be origin of everything? Anvayād itarataś ca. Suppose I.... If I have manufactured this car, then I know every nook and corner of this car, how I have manufactured. One who has manufactured, he knows how it is working, every minute feature. Even an expert driver, he knows how many parts are there, which part is.... Anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ. If he's abhijñaḥ, if he's completely cognizant of every part of the whole creation, then He has created. (pause) All Santa Monica city?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda (break) ...a very clear day.

Prabhupāda: Clear? That is not clear. So many clouds.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Practically, though, without God consciousness, isn't it that people see that whether they are moral or not moral, they still suffer?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This material world is meant for suffering. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That is the description in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is a place for suffering. And that is also temporary. You cannot make adjustment: "Never mind, it is suffering; I shall remain here." No, that also will not be allowed. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the marriage ceremonies that they have, they make vow before God that "Until death do us part, we will not separate," but so many divorces are there.

Prabhupāda: That is suffering.

Rāmeśvara: If a man can have an affair with many different women, he's considered fortunate. It is his success.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's on the front page of all the magazines.

Hari-śauri: "Bachelor daddy."

Prabhupāda: Therefore they want to become gopīs. That is the tendency, sahajiyā.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Hṛdayānanda: Yasmāt priyāpriya-viyoga-saṁyoga-janma.

Prabhupāda: This is description of this material life. Yasmāt priyāpriya?

Hṛdayānanda: Viyoga-saṁyoga-janma.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hṛdayānanda:

śokāgninā sakala-yoniṣu dahyamānaḥ

duḥkhauṣadhaṁ tad api duḥkham atad-dhiyāhaṁ

bhūman bhramāmi vada me tava dāsya-yogam

"O great one, O Supreme Lord, because of combination with pleasing and displeasing circumstances and because of separation from them, one is placed in a most regrettable position, within heavenly or hellish planets, as if burning in a fire of lamentation. Although there are many remedies by which to get out of miserable life, any such remedies in the material world are more miserable than the miseries themselves."

Prabhupāda: Just see (laughs). You want to mitigate some misery, and the process is still more miserable. Is it not?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They are trying to solve one problem, but creating another hundreds of problems.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are receiving knowledge from the perfect. Just like a child does not believe, a boy, he has not seen his father. He does not believe that there is father. But if the mother says, "Yes, my dear child, there is father," so then his knowledge is perfect. With his imperfect knowledge, he was disbelieving that there is father, but when the mother says, he has to accept it. Then his knowledge becomes perfect. He has not seen who is father. That's a fact, maybe. And, but the mother is authority. She says, "Here, my dear child. There is father." Then his knowledge perfect. So we may be imperfect, the child is imperfect, but when he gets the knowledge from the perfect source, mother, then it is perfect. Similarly, we, we never say that we are perfect. If you are perfect, then why you are learning? You are trying to become perfect. So our process is that we are receiving knowledge from the perfect. Therefore whatever we say, it is perfect. A child does not know, "What is this, father?" The father says "My dear child, it is called microphone." So after that, if he takes it and declares to anyone, "This is microphone," that is perfect, although he's a child. Because he's learned it from the perfect father. This is our process. We don't speculate. We don't speculate whether there is father or not. That is not our process. We ask from the mother, "Mother, they say I have got father. I have never seen." So mother says, "Yes, my dear child, you have got a father." Then finish. Knowledge is perfect. And the child cannot challenge, "I have never seen my father. How can I believe you?" This is nonsense. Your mother says, that is fact. That's all, finished. You cannot challenge mother: "Mother, I have never seen my father; how can I believe?" That is nonsense! This is going on. "I have never seen God. Can you show me God?" This rascaldom is going on. First of all you must know you are a rascal. How can you see God? You hear from the authority who knows God. That is the injunction.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

(BG 4.34)

You have to approach tattva-darśī, who has seen God through spiritual eyes. So one has to approach such a person who actually knows God, seen God, and approach him, praṇipātena. Not like that childish challenge. By surrender, praṇipātena. Then question. First of all surrender. Praṇipātena, paripraśnena. Not by challenging. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore one has to go to guru, where there is no challenge. There is no question of challenging. You can make question. That is another thing. But not challenge. Then you'll be deceived. Therefore first condition is praṇipātena. Without praṇipāta, you cannot make advancement. So this philosophy, our philosophy or anyone's philosophy.... Philosophy is not for our or yours. Philosophy is philosophy. That is a science. Philosophy is the science of sciences. That is the description of philosophy. In our college days we were philosophy student of Professor, Dr. W. S. Hartford. He defined that "Philosophy is the science of sciences." There are different departments of scientific knowledge. When they are taken together, the original science is philosophy. Philosophy is the science. Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam etad jñānam. Tad ajñānaṁ yad anyathā. It is not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā? Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. To know the Absolute Truth, that is philosophy.

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So that's mad. (laughter) Yes, they say like that. Everyone is afraid of death.

Hari-śauri: They say "I don't mind to die. As long as I can just finish up one or two things first, then I don't mind."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Death will wait for your finishing? Death will come, it will not wait. People have become less intelligent, mūḍha. The general description is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: mūḍha, narādhama. Human intelligence requires to understand these problems, but because they are mūḍha, and lowest of the human, simply like animals, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Narādhama. You do not solve the problems. Simply like animal, dancing. So go on reading.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Who cares for it? (laughter) Wine is highly taxed in India. When I was manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory, he was manufacturing alcohol(?) for medicinal purposes. The cost was one rupee eight annas per gallon. The government was levying duty. For medicinal purpose, five rupees per gallon, whereas purchasing liquor, fifty-eight. The government would take profit out of it, fifty-eight rupees.

Satsvarūpa: (indistinct) Fifth Canto (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Today, there was description, there is description, the fight was so severe that the blood sprinkled up to the sun planet. So why not moon planet? Why they say sun planet? The sun is the nearest planet from the earth. So this calculation.... They say the sun planet is 93,000,000 miles away from earth? And if you add further 1,600,000 miles, it comes to about fifteen (50?) million miles. Fifteen (50?) million miles, they have calculated, go there by the sputnik at the rate of 13,000 miles per hour. (indistinct)

Ambarīṣa: They said they went fifteen million?

Hari-śauri: No, according to our calculation.... We agree with the figure 93,000,000, as approximate to the sun, but then our figure is 1,600,000 beyond it to the moon.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Ambarīṣa does not agree. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He backed down from the challenge.

Prabhupāda: Now you all together make this Vedic planetarium very nice, so that people will come and see. From the description of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you prepare this Vedic planetarium. How do you like this idea, Vedic planetarium?

Ambarīṣa: It seems like a very nice idea.

Prabhupāda: You also like? So finance this project. (laughter) Vedic planetarium.

Ambarīṣa: Where will this be?

Prabhupāda: Māyāpur. My idea is to attract people of the whole world to Māyāpur. So we are just trying to acquire three hundred fifty acres of land from the government. It is going on under consideration. Some men are against and some are in favor. But those who are against, they have counted ninety?

Hari-śauri: Ninety against, two thousand for.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, always. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). They are thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna:

tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo

yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api

nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yat

śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ

(SB 1.5.11)

"On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the pastimes of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc. of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest." Purport. "It is a qualification of the great thinkers to pick up the best even from the worst. It is said that the intelligent man should pick up nectar from a stock of poison, should accept gold even from a filthy place, should accept a good and qualified wife even from an obscure family, and should accept a good lesson even from a man or from a teacher who comes from the untouchables. These are some of the ethical instructions for everyone in every place without exception. But a saint is far above the level of an ordinary man, and he is always absorbed in glorifying the Supreme Lord, because by broadcasting the holy name and fame of the Supreme Lord the polluted atmosphere of the world will change, and as a result of propagating the transcendental literatures like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, people will become sane in their transactions. While preparing this commentation on this particular stanza of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we have a crisis before us. Our neighboring friend China has attacked the border of India with a militaristic spirit. We have practically no business in the political field, yet we see that previously there were both China and India, and they both lived peacefully for centuries without ill feeling. The reason is that they lived those days in an atmosphere of God consciousness, and every country over the surface of the world was God fearing, pure hearted and simple, and there was no question of political diplomacy. There was no cause of quarrel between the two countries of China and India over land which is not very suitable for habitation, and certainly there was no cause for fighting on this issue. But due to the age of quarrel, Kali, which we have discussed, there is always a chance of quarrel on slight provocation. This is due not to the issue in question but to the polluted atmosphere of this age. Systematically there is propaganda by a section of people to stop glorification of the name and fame of the Supreme Lord. Therefore there is great need for disseminating the message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam all over the world. It is the duty of every responsible Indian to broadcast the transcendental message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam throughout the world to do all the supermost good, as well as to bring about the desired peace in the world. Because India has failed in her duty by neglecting this responsible work, there is so much quarrel and trouble all over the world. We are confident that if the transcendental message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is received only by the leading men of the world, certainly there will be a change of heart, and naturally the people in general will follow them. The mass of people in general are tools in the hands of modern politicians and leaders of the people. If there is a change of heart of the leaders only, certainly there will be a radical change in the atmosphere of the world. We know that our honest attempt to present this great literature conveying transcendental messages for reviving the God consciousness of the people in general and respiritualizing the world atmosphere is fraught with many difficulties. Our presenting this matter in adequate language, especially a foreign language, will certainly fail, and there will be so many literary discrepancies despite our honest attempt to present it in the proper way, but we are sure that with all our faults in this connection, the seriousness of the subject matter will be taken into consideration, and the leaders of society will still accept this, due to its being an honest attempt to glorify the almighty God. When there is fire in a house, the inmates of the house go out to get help from the neighbors, who may be foreigners, and yet without knowing the language, the victims of the fire express themselves and the neighbors understand the need, even though not expressed in the same language. The same spirit of cooperation is needed to broadcast this transcendental message of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam throughout the polluted atmosphere of the world. After all, it is a technical science of spiritual values, and thus we are concerned with the techniques and not with the language. If the techniques of this great literature are understood by the people of the world, there will be success. When there are too many materialistic activities by the people in general all over the world, there is no wonder that a person or nation attacks another person or nation on slight provocation. That is the rule of this age of Kali, or quarrel. The atmosphere is already polluted with corruption of all description, and everyone knows it well. There are so many unwanted literatures full of materialistic ideas of sense gratification. The people in general want to read. That is a natural instinct. But because their minds are polluted, they want such literatures. Under the circumstances, transcendental literature like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will not only diminish the activities of the corrupt minds of the people in general, but also it will supply food for their hankering after reading some interesting literature. In the beginning they may not like it, because one suffering from jaundice is reluctant to take sugar candy, but we should know that sugar candy is the only remedy for the jaundice. Similarly, let there be systematic propaganda for popularizing reading of the Bhagavad-gītā and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which will act like sugar candy for the jaundicelike condition of sense gratification. When men have a taste for this literature, the other literatures, which are catering poison to society, will then automatically cease. We are sure therefore that everyone in the human society will welcome Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, even though it is now presented with so many faults, for it is recommended by Śrī Nārada, who has very kindly appeared in this chapter."

Prabhupāda: So what other literatures say? There is not one. In our society we do not read even newspaper, is it not? Do we? Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only in context to our preaching work.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but generally. We do not derive any benefit from those. People read it, especially in the Western counties. If there is no newspaper it is hell. I told you this story? Yes. You can repeat that.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is the right description of modern age. Exact. Hmm? What is that? Etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Naṣṭātmāno.

Prabhupāda: Naṣṭātmāno, they have lost their soul. Naṣṭātmā. There is no information about the soul. Naṣṭātmānaḥ. God and soul is lost: "There is no God, there is no cause of this creation, there was a chunk," like that. Like that. Etāṁ dṛṣṭim avastabhya. Read it?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna:

etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya

naṣṭātmāno 'lpa-buddhayaḥ

Prabhupāda: Naṣṭātmānaḥ, they have lost their self. Naṣṭātmāno alpa-buddhayaḥ. A rascal, no intelligence. Just like cats and dogs. If these four principles are available, bas, finished. Life is perfect success. Eating, sleeping, mating. Alpa-buddhayaḥ, animal. Then?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Prabhavanty.

Prabhupāda: Prabhavanty.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Prabhavanty.

Prabhupāda: Prabhavanty.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Ugra-karmāṇaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ugra-karmāṇaḥ, the factory. This is ugra-karma. Pradyumna was describing ugra-karma, hellish. Little karma, just wheat is growing, a little tilling, that is sufficient. What is the use of opening big, big factory? Ugra-karma. What it has helped? You were talking on behalf of them. What it has helped? Keeping them. Innocent men, women, they are kept in that factory simply for livelihood. A little work will provide his needs. Nature has given so much facility. They can grow little food anywhere. The cows are there in the pasturing ground. Take milk and live peacefully. Why you open factories? What is the use? Keeping them in hellish condition of life. So this is the description. Now discuss these points.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: You say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they engage in unbeneficial horrible works meant to destroy the world and that this refers to the atomic weapons. This is so true.

Prabhupāda: Yes, God's speaking, Kṛṣṇa is speaking.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: I was studying this nuclear energy in college, thinking that it would save the world. That by the energy they could make bigger tomatoes, bigger corn, and...

Prabhupāda: Bigger deaths. Conclusion is bigger deaths. Everything big. One man was dying, now many hundreds of thousands will die. Bigger deaths. You did not consider it bigger death? Dhṛṣṭadyumna: It was very frustrating, though, because for everything they were trying to do good, they found so many more things bad were coming.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He became like a hermit. He withdrew into himself. No one knew very much about him; he was very mysterious so far as his life with the public was concerned. But towards the end of his life he didn't live a very elaborate life of sense gratification at all. No one knew much about him at all.

Hari-śauri: This description is perfect, actually, because most of his fortunes they calculate he amassed by many illegal methods, like paying off police and fixing so many things up. With his money, he was always able to buy government officials and like this and get so many contracts to further the development of his aircraft companies and this and that.

Prabhupāda: He has manufactured airplanes?

Hari-śauri: Yes, he had something to do with airplanes. And also he had a lot of land in Las Vegas, this gambling city. So many... He was involved in many mysterious maneuvers. It's open in the newspapers, they said that he got most of his money from illegal methods.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: In his old age he was very afraid of germs. He didn't want to catch any disease. So he would wear..., he would live in perfectly sealed rooms with all artificial air and light, so no germs could exist, and he would wear these...

Prabhupāda: He did not know that he's creating germs within his body.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He could not avoid death.

Prabhupāda: If there was no germs, how he died? So at last he said?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He said something to the effect that "I don't know what this life was about. I think I've made a mistake." Just at the end.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: Is that kind of information given in the Vedas?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Āyur Veda. There is a book. Dravya-guṇa. All kinds of herbs, metals, even different kinds of flesh of different animals, they are mentioned. Hundreds of different kinds of animals flesh, how it can be utilized for certain disease, the descriptions are there.

Hari-śauri: They use flesh for curing things?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: They use flesh for curing diseases?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal-killing is only allowed when it is absolutely necessary, for medicine. Suppose by killing one animal hundreds of lives are saved, so that is allowed. One preparation is chagalaka-ghṛta. It is prepared... A live goat is put into the ghee with other ingredients, and that is a good medicine for tisis(?).

Hari-śauri: For?

Prabhupāda: Tisis(?) Tuberculosis.

Hari-śauri: Oh.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They actually cook the live goat in the ghee? Maybe we should withhold this science from the Western world for a while.

Prabhupāda: No, you are expert already. (laughter)

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: Tatas cānudinaṁ satyaḥ, dharmaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣama daya.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Find that verse. You can quote that "This Kali-yuga it is waning; therefore they are becoming animals." Man without religion means animals. That's all. This is the definition. In the human society, either you become Christian or you become Mohammedan or you become a Hindu or you become Buddhist. It doesn't matter. There must be some system of religion. That is human society. And human society without religion—animal society. This is plain fact. So why people are unhappy now? Because there is no religion. They are neglecting religion. That one gentleman, he has written me that Tolstoy said that "Unless one dynamite is put underneath a church, there cannot be any peace." That means they want... The Russians, the Communists, they are very strict against God consciousness. Because they think so, that this religion has spoiled the whole social atmosphere. It might have been misused, religious system. That does not mean that religion should be avoided. Real religion should be taken. Because religion has not been properly executed by the so-called priest, it does not mean that religion should be rejected. My eye is giving some trouble on account of cataract, but that doesn't mean eye should be plucked out. The cataract should be removed. So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They have no conception of God, and they are preaching religion. What is that religion? That will be misused. Religion means dharmaṁ tu sāksād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means God's order. If there is no God, where is religion? This is going on. They have no conception of God. What is God they do not know, and professing some religion. How long it will go on artificially? It will deteriorate. That has become the present condition. They have no idea of God, and how they will know what is the order of God? And religion means order of God. Just like law means order of the state. Law means order of the state. So if there is no state, where is the order? You can manufacture your own order. That is going on. There is no conception of God. We have got clear conception of God. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. And He's giving orders. We accept it. And it is clear religion. And if there is no God, no conception of God, no order of God, then where is religion? If there if no government, then where is law? Outlaw. Everyone is outlaw. That is going on. Ask any religious system what is the conception of God. Can anyone tell clearly? Nobody can say. We shall immediately say, veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam (Bs. 5.30). Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti... immediately description, "Here is God." Then there is religion. And if there is no God, where is religion? Bogus. Therefore declining. They have no conception of God, and therefore there is no understanding of religion. Therefore it is declining. So this is the cause of declining. And because it is declining, human being becoming more animals. Animal means there will be no memory. A dog comes... Here is some eatables. He comes. I say, "Hut!" He goes away. Again he comes. No memory. So when this memory is reducing that means human quality is reduced. So in the Kali-yuga these eight things will reduce. That means they are becoming like cats and dogs. This is the answer to the first question.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But it cannot be done. This is another foolishness. Because Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). But the difficulty is the caste system is coming on account of false notion that a brāhmaṇa is the son of a brāhmaṇa. That is caste system. But Kṛṣṇa does not say. He says, "By quality and work." He never says, "By birth." So this so-called castism in India that is a false notion of cātur-varṇyaṁ. Real cātur-varṇyaṁ means guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. One must be qualified. And how one is qualified? That is also described. Satya śamo damo titikṣva ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. So there must be education. It is not that to abolish the caste system which is contaminated by false conception, or birth right conception. This wrong caste system should be abolished and training centers should be opened how to train a person to become brāhmaṇa or to become kṣatriya. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. So you cannot avoid it, but because you have misconceived the caste system, that should be abolished, and the system recommended by Kṛṣṇa, that should be taken. Otherwise you cannot avoid it. Caste system will remain. Just like truthfulness. So all over the world you'll find somebody who is truthful. Why do you take it: "His father was truthful, therefore he is truthful."? This is nonsense. This is nonsense. Kṛṣṇa never said that. The father may be Hiranyakasipu, but his son is Prahlāda. Or a son... Not that the, one has to become exactly like the father. It may be. There is every possibility, but it is not a fact that the son becomes like the father. It is not fact. So similarly, the first class man is truthful. Now, wherever you find a truthful man, you classify him as brāhmaṇa. That is wanted. Why do you take that "Here is a son of truthful man; therefore he is brāhmaṇa"? That is misconception. You have to pick up the truthful men all over the world and classify them as brāhmaṇa. That we are doing. "If you follow these principles, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat-eating, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on." His father may be meat-eater or gambler or drunkard, but he is agreeing, "All right, come on, this come. You are welcome." Then it will be all right. You cannot abolish the truthful class of men. There are... You'll find truthful men everywhere. So you have to pick up. So Kṛṣṇa says that, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā, guṇa-karma... You pick up the quality of men and put them in the brahminical class, and then next, kṣatriya class, then vaiśya class, then śūdra class. But you cannot abolish that system. That is a false attempt. Because more or less, there will be a class of men who are truthful. You cannot abolish. More or less, there will be a class of men who are sinful. So as soon as you want to pick up from a family, then it is mistake, miscalculated. That caste system should be abolished. But real classification... Not caste. It is classification. Intelligent class of men, or truthful class of men, the fighter class of men, that will continue all over the world. You cannot abolish it. Even if you abolish caste system in India, you cannot abolish the class of truthful men. That is not possible. In spite of so much degradation, a class of men will remain truthful, a class of men will remain sinful. More or less. You cannot abolish this. So this is false attempt. And this caste system is also false. It is not based on the right description of caste system.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The so-called Vedantists are bluffers. They do not know what is Vedānta. But the things are going on that people want to be bluffed and the bluffers take advantage of it, and therefore... Veda means knowledge, and anta means end of knowledge. That is the combination of Vedānta. So in the Vedānta the beginning is, Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsāḥ. "Now, in the human form of life, they should inquire about the Absolute Truth." That is the Vedānta philosophy. And what is that Absolute Truth? Sūtra means in aphorism, in small words, a big philosophy is given. That is called sūtra. A little link. So Vedānta-sūtra begins when one is inquisitive to understand the Absolute Truth. That is called Vedānta-sūtra. And it is answered, first question is now about brahma-jijñāsa, inquisitive, inquiry about Brahman. So Brahman is, in nutshell, described: "Brahman means the origin of everything." Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). All the Vedas, all the book of knowledge, their business is how to search out God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). So the whole Vedānta is description of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But because in this Kali-yuga people will not be able to study Vedānta nicely on account of lack of education, therefore Vyāsadeva personally wrote a commentary on the Vedānta. That commentary is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānam **. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra written by the author himself. The Vedānta-sūtra is also given by Vyāsadeva, and under the instruction of Nārada, his spiritual master... Get this light on. He wrote commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also begins with the same aphorism, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñāh sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). So actually, Vedānta-sūtra is explained by the author of the Vedānta in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So some rascals, without understanding Vedānta, without reading the commentary, natural commentary of the Vedānta-sūtra they are posing themselves as Vedantist. That means they are misguiding people. And because people are not educated, they're accepting these rascals as Vedantists. Actually, the so-called Vedantists, they are bluffers. They are not Vedantists. They do not know anything of the Vedānta. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, what is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that is real Vedānta. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsa. That is Vedānta-sutra-bhāṣya. Find out this verse.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: "Translation: I am seated in everyone's heart and from Me comes remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta and I am the knower of the Vedas."

Prabhupāda: So they do not go to the compiler of Vedānta. They go to a rascal. How they will understand Vedānta? Suppose I have written this book. If you cannot understand something, if you come directly to me, that is real. Why do you go to a rascal who has nothing to do with this book? If some rascal claims that "I am Vedanti," so your description should... Why shall I not go to the real compiler of Vedānta. Why shall I go to a rascal? That means they are rascals. They are being cheated. Let them take to Bhagavad-gītā and let them take to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. They will understand Vedānta. They're real Vedantist. But these rascals, they're avoiding Bhagavad-gītā and avoiding Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and claiming themselves as Vedantist. So if you go to a cheater you'll be cheated. That is your business.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But we have to see by the result. The result is... Only platform, that only platform, that is decided... Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is actually religion. How? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If one has learned how to love God. If there is no love of God, then what is the use of claiming that this is the only platform? Where is the sign of love of Godhead? That is to be seen. Simply if you say... Everyone will say, "This, my, this property is the best, or my understanding is..." But there must be practical proof. The practical proof-say how to love God, what is the process of loving God? If you do not know your relationship with God and other's relationship with God, then how you know God? That is lacking. Nobody can give clear conception of God. Can the Christians give? Then where is love of God? If you have no understanding of what is God, where is the question of love? Love is not fictitious. You cannot love air. You love a person, a beautiful person, a beautiful woman. If you say, "I love air. I love the sky..." Where there is question of love?There must be a person. So who is that person we want to love? But they have no personal conception of God, neither they can describe the personal beauty, capacity, strength, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. There is no such description. So they have got the conception of God, but actually they do not know what is God. But religion means you must know God and love Him. That is religion. That is first class religion. Is that clear or not?

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: About the foretelling of Bhāgavatam. The other day I recited so many verses. One of them, long hairs. Now see how practical. And now this is confirmation of the foretelling. Who knew five thousand years that people will keep long hairs and think of themselves as very beautiful? It is mentioned in Bhāgavata. How it is possible unless they can see actually what is going to happen? That is foretelling. And other description, they are also fact. Everything is there. And all this is five thousand, two thousand years' foretelling. The millions and millions of years' foretelling they are. What will the eighth Manu, and how they will..., ninth Manu, tenth Manu, up to fourteenth Manu. All the Manus together, forty-three lakhs, thousand times. This is all the Manus' time. And the whole history is concluded that "Now I have mentioned past, present and future." It is not difficult. Just like tomorrow for my daily routine, what I shall do tomorrow from morning to evening, I can say. Is it very difficult for me? So it is a question of Brahmā's one day. So it can be said by them, not by us. These rascals think only in their standard of thinking: "I cannot live in such such, such condition; therefore there is no living entity." This is their idea. "I cannot live within the water; therefore there is no living entity. I cannot live within the fire; therefore there is no living entity." Kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, the same. "Whatever is in my experience, three feet water... How there can be unlimited?"

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, preaching constantly required to keep them in balance. As soon as the balance is tilted over on the māyā side, then everything is finished.

Hari-śauri: They get a bit overwhelmed sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That is possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very strong. But if we also become equally strong in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no... That... Just like in the beginning, a seed sown, it requires very careful attention. Then it grows up. And when one grows a tree, then that is all right. But so long it is not a tree—it is a plant—one has to take... And the watering is śravaṇa-kīrtana. Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. That is required. Mālī hañā sei bīja kare āropaṇa, śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. I think, nineteenth chapter of Madhya-līlā.

Hari-śauri: It's a very good description how the bhakti tree grows, the creeper of bhakti.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana? Nineteenth chapter, Madhya-līlā. Mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa (CC Madhya 19.152), śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana: "When a person receives the seed of devotional service, he should take care of it by becoming a gardener and sowing the seed in his heart. If he waters the seed gradually by the process of śravaṇa and kīrtana, hearing and chanting, the seed will begin to sprout."

Prabhupāda: Is there any purport?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Prabhupāda: What can be done?

Darby: Would it help if someone took the Bible and wrote a Vaiṣṇava purport or tried to simplify it so that people could understand it? The language is difficult for the common man now to understand.

Prabhupāda: That we are spreading. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that you act what Kṛṣṇa or God says, that's all. In our Bhagavad-gītā the guru's description is there, who is guru. Read the fourth chapter. On this all literature, simply guru and disciple, one is instructing, and one is hearing.

Hari-śauri: From 4.1?

śrī bhagavān uvāca

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāha

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

(BG 4.1)

"The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu, in turn, instructed it to Ikṣvāku."

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa instructed first to the sun-god. Sun-god instructed his son, Manu; he instructed his son, Ikṣvāku. In this way things are coming. Then read the second verse.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Darby: I see. Then in the Bible, the beginning of it says that God created the heavens and the earth, and yet they say, give the description in Genesis as the way God created the heaven and the earth. Does this not conform with Brahmā's work?

Prabhupāda: Yes, God has created everything. Just like father, son and the mother. Mother gives birth to the son when the mother is impregnated by the father. This is the law, everyone knows. Now you can see that so many trees are coming from earth. Is it not? Trees and plants and grass. And we eat them, we live. Therefore the earth is mother, and the children are so many. The plants are about two million types of plants. Jalajā nava lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Then there are insects, reptiles, then beasts, then man. In this way there are so many living entities. The living entities are produced from the earth. The earth is the mother and the living entities are the sons. Then where is the father? This simple thing, why do they not inquire? Who is the father?

Darby: Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa, God, or whatever you speak, there must be father. You cannot say that these children, the offsprings are coming automatically. Then you are a fool if you say like that. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vipina: We're almost there, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In the heavenly planets the woman is described that during summer they are very warm, the body is very warm, er, during summer the body is very cool of the woman, and during winter the body is very warm. That is the nature of the woman in the heavenly planets. And their breast is very, very tight and strongly built. And their youthfulness never diminishes. These are the description of the heavenly woman. Bhāgavata everything is there. Mohinī-mūrti began to play on the balls, and the description of the breast is there and, what is called this portion?

Hari-śauri: Armpit.

Prabhupāda: Armpit. Yes. So she was playing ball one hand and one hand a bunch of hair would become, immediately she was taking care. So with this beauty Lord Śiva become mad. As soon as one man sees the breast and this armpit of young woman, then he is finished. (laughs)

Vipina: So what happens to us?

Prabhupāda: It is every man that this is the position. This is the position. And so long we will be charmed with these things, he has to take birth again and again. Viṣayināṁ saṁdarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I heard. The beginning is minus one. That is imaginary; it is not fact. But they imagine something at the beginning.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. In fact it is called imaginary number. Square root of minus one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if mathematics begins with imaginary something, why not Absolute Truth? That Absolute Truth must be life. As Bhāgavata explains, janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He must be aware of everything. That means life. That means life. Now the question is how He became experienced? Svarāṭ, independent. Just like we require experience, knowledge, from somebody else. Experienced knowledge is not gained automatically, but the Absolute means that He is full of knowledge. How He got knowledge? Svarāṭ, independently. That is the description. You have to imagine at least like that. It is Vedic injunction, it is the fact, that Absolute Truth independently cognizant of everything. That is Absolute Truth.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then in the second point, under the heading of matter, it is describable to some extent by physical and chemical laws. But on the other hand, life is nonphysical and nonchemical; it is beyond matter; it is transcendental. That is the basic difference.

Prabhupāda: That is explained indirectly. What are those verses? Na chindanti, na dahati. Definition by negation. It is never dried up, it is never cut into pieces, it is never moistened. Why don't you find that verse? Negative way. Physical means this can be cut into particle, pieces, but here, it cannot be cut into pieces. Your physical and chemical, you have got idea. Any physical thing can be cut into pieces. But here the negative description is given. It cannot be cut into pieces. Now we have to see what is that thing which cannot be cut into pieces.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we say nonphysical, nonchemical.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is quite right. Physical, anything physical can be cut into pieces.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is outside. This is not the combination of the solution. The soul is coming from outside. The same theory. It is not the solution which is creating life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The materialistic theory that there is no soul and that a child is born simply by material combination of a man's and woman's semina is not very feasible. It is unacceptable."

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Text two. Kalalaṁ tv eka-rātreṇa, pañca-rātreṇa budbudam.

Prabhupāda: He's giving description of one day, one night, next night, next night, like that, every description.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

kalalaṁ tv eka-rātreṇa

pañca-rātreṇa budbudam

daśāhena tu karkandhūḥ

peśy aṇḍaṁ vā tataḥ param

(SB 3.31.2)

Translation: "On the first night, the semina and ovum mix, and on the fifth night, the mixture ferments into a bubble."

Prabhupāda: The same thing.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: According to combination of these modes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why we want to bring out, that modes of nature, that can explain so many things so nicely, the difference, but science has no background on that.

Prabhupāda: That means you have to analyze different bodies. But that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which apartment is better than the other apartment, there is description. Just like a dog's body is so made that two furlongs away some newcomer is coming, immediately he will bark, he can immediately understand, perceive. He can smell that "Somebody is coming who is not known to me." Is it not? So he has got that special quality. Even in animals we will find. A fish in the water, two miles away there is some enemy, they can understand by touch.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science calls those chemical senses.

Prabhupāda: These are described in the Bhāgavata, the different perception of different senses, how one is prominent in one animal body. That is described.

Rūpānuga: That is coming? That is not yet printed? I don't remember that description.

Prabhupāda: No, I think that in the Third Canto. In Third Canto there is. You can consult Third Canto. One sense is prominent.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is river?

Rūpānuga: Potomac River.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I was going to ask that this soul, the nature of the soul, we find that...

Prabhupāda: Salt?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no, the soul, the ātmā, jīva. We get a description that the soul, the size of a soul is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. We were just discussing whether does this imply that it can be measured.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the measurement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we are claiming that it is nonphysical.

Prabhupāda: No, nonphysical, that doesn't mean it has no measurement. It has measurement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So measurement... Actually, Sadāputa calculated from how much the size is. Now from electron microscope, actually we can get an idea about the tip of the hair, how much it is. Now you divide it by one ten-thousandth part, so it (will) come out the size of the soul is about two angstroms, by calculation like that.

Prabhupāda: Two atoms?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, angstroms. Angstrom is the smallest scale that science can imagine. It is smaller even than the hydrogen atom. So actually it is atomic, it is very small in size.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is a place in India, Jabalpura, there is a fall passing, Narmada, and these stones are all marble, first class. Very nice place. I went there.

Hari-śauri: You mentioned in Hawaii how there are planets where instead of having grains of sand on the beach, they have jewels.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jewels.

Sadāpūta: Some scientists find it hard to understand the description of different planets wherein there are oceans of milk, because we know that there's oceans of water here, and that water has to be there to create rain...

Prabhupāda: So why the rascal carry this idea there? Has he seen everything?

Sadāpūta: No, but he cannot understand how an ocean...

Prabhupāda: So how he can understand? He's a fool. How he can understand? (break) ...into the moon planet, what does he understand about water there? There are so many millions and trillions of planets. How he can understand what is there?

Devotee (1): Where did the astronauts go?

Prabhupāda: They'll go to hell (laughter). To pick up some sand, as if sand is not there.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, moon star is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Moon is one of the stars, but brilliant star.

Yadubara: How many brilliant stars are there in this Universe?

Prabhupāda: Many. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). Aśeṣa. We cannot count.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The description is also that there is only one star in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The description is that there is only one star in this universe. One star.

Prabhupāda: One star?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, only one star.

Devotee: One sun.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm sorry, one sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One sun in this universe.

Prabhupāda: This is one universe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually what they call solar system, science doesn't call it one universe. The concept of universe is very vast.

Prabhupāda: That is not vast. Our concept...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, our conception is solar system, actually. The solar system is one universe.

Prabhupāda: Solar? There is no solar system. The ninth, I mean planets.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Oh, effulgent, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now our point is whether this hiraṇmaya... In the mahat-tattva, the relationship between these two and pradhāna, how does that relate each other? It's not very clear in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you're not very clear, this point. It said from pradhāna, by the impregnation with the Lord's internal potency, the hiraṇmaya is produced. That's actually the beginning of the injection of jīvas within these material modes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is little complicated. So is it not clear from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is little difficult to understand the phenomenal descriptions.

Prabhupāda: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Nityānanda-tattva? You can read it, you'll get some clue.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We also get some clue from First Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the puruṣa incarnations, where it explains about tattva. But there is a difference between... Now our understanding is this: pradhāna, both pradhāna and mahat-tattva, they are eternal, though they are material manifestations.

Prabhupāda: Everything eternal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, eternal in the sense that it's different from prakṛti. Now prakṛti is, when it is completely manifested...

Prabhupāda: Prakṛti, pradhāna, puruṣa, these things are little complicated.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The living entities are always in pure goodness. This material covering is separated. The living entities can be freed from material covering at any moment. Just like water and oil, it is always separated, it does not mix. The Vedic mantra also says asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. Actually, it is not mixed, but it is covered. That covering can be taken away at any moment simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). I think in First Canto, that description you try to understand, you'll get.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now in the First Canto in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is not very clear.

Prabhupāda: Then Second Canto, the development of Sṛṣṭi-tattva, there you'll get.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think there is also reference in the Bhagavad-gītā, this hiraṇmaya, because sometimes it's also called Brahman.

Prabhupāda: Brahmajyoti. What?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Brahman.

Prabhupāda: Brahman, yes. He's called Hiraṇya-garbha, Brahmā.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No. Seed is instrumental. Just like you have to do something, you require an instrument. Actually, according to the desire of the living entity, he's given instrument, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). Yantra. You require something, you require a particular yantra or machine. So seed is practically the machine, and the living entity is using it to satisfy his desires.

Hari-śauri: So that growth of matter, that's the matter is coming from outside, and the spirit soul is simply taking it and expanding his body.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sadāpūta: Is earth still being manifested from ether? Like the description in Bhāgavatam is from sound and then through different elements finally down to earth. Is that still happening today?

Prabhupāda: Every, always happening. Nature's law is going on.

Sadāpūta: Yes. So what I was wondering, is like earth still being manifested in living bodies from sound and so on, like the chemists...

Prabhupāda: No, no. The process is going on. I've described. That is going on.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She's saying but it's manufactured, it's made, graven.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. But it is made according to the Vedic principles. Just like in the Vedas, Kṛṣṇa's form is described, veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam (Bs. 5.30). Kṛṣṇa is playing on His flute, veṇuṁ kvaṇantam. His eyes are like the petals of the lotus flower. So if you follow the description, then it is coming from the Vedic literature or Vedic knowledge. It is not that an artistic way of imagining some idol, the eyes are like this and He must play flute. It is not like that.

Woman guest (2): That's because it came from scriptures instead of from men's minds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is authorized. When you take anything from the statute, book, that is law. And if you manufacture something, that is not law. Just like, I'll give you one very good example. Just like in your front of your house there is U.S. letterbox. So another man, he sees that the box is in front of his house, "Why shall I go so far? Let me manufacture a box here." So he's posting. After six months, he'll see all these letters are lying there. (laughter) And one who is posting that authorized box, his letter is going to thousands and thousands of miles away. So you cannot imitate. If you imitate U.S. letterbox in front of your house and post your letters, it will never go, it will remain there.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: One letter should be written to him that "You have taken so much trouble to describe Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, so thank you for your patience. Now we shall request you to read our books and review it. That will be real presentation of the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. Now you have studied superficially, and if you seriously study our books, you'll get more knowledge and you'll be able to give description of the movement more definitely."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to hear what else he has to say?

Prabhupāda: Umhm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Others insist that the style of shaving the head identifies devotees of various spiritual orders. The long śikhās marks a man as a follower of Kṛṣṇa. Still another group says that the head-shaving simply stands for renunciation of the material world, its values and its pleasures. One or more of those reasons may be the true one. Possibly all of them have a multi-determined, have multi-determined the Kṛṣṇa cut. The how of the cut is simplicity itself. Commonly two men cut each others hair. Our pictures show how. Phase one of the cutting, known as the buzz-off, is done with ordinary..." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Buzz off? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he was tempted. Arjuna was tempted when he went to Indraloka. But he closed his eyes.

Prabhupāda: No, descriptions are there of Indraloka. The pavements with pearls.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow.

Prabhupāda: That is described, in the eighth chapter you'll find, er, Eighth Canto.

Rāmeśvara: In the Seventh Canto they described the palace of Indra, because Hiraṇyakaśipu had lived there. How he was living there, and the walls of his palace are studded with jewels. There's a nice description. What to speak of an ocean of milk, there's so many things they cannot imagine. (break) (walking)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The buses, you know the windows, some of the windows are broken a little bit—you saw them. Do you think they will look good in the parade? It's all right if the windows are not all...

Prabhupāda: Who is going to see? (break)

Hṛdayānanda: Great American paintings. What they consider to be great American paintings.

Hari-śauri: It's an art exhibition. (break)

Prabhupāda: In London they have got such a nice...

Rāmeśvara: You think one day, Prabhupāda, maybe these big buildings will be our temples?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, our executive office.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Even, say, hundred years ago, that Girish Chandra Ghosh, he wanted to introduce theatrical performances, imitating the European theatrical performances, man and woman taking part. So he wanted to invite woman artist. Not a single woman joined. Who will go to public stage to dance, respectable girl? They'll never. That is hundred years. I am speaking, say, about forty years ago. In one of our Dayanika(?) men, the girl was to be married, and it is the custom in India—the bridegroom's party comes to see the girl, whether she is right. Similarly, the girl's party goes to see the.... So they came to see one of my friend's daughter, and the daughter is very beautiful, rich man's daughter. So one of the bridegroom's party questioned, "You know how to dance?" That was the question to the girl: "You have learned something about dancing and singing?" So she was my friend's daughter, my, that friend, Mukunda Mati. His elder brother was there. He became very angry, that "This rascal is asking our daughter whether she knows dancing and singing." She took it as.... He took it as insult, that "Respectable family, daughter should learn how to dance, how to sing?" So immediately he protested, "No, no, no, she does not know how to dance, how to sing. She's not meant for that purpose. We like, of course, a young girl dancing and singing, but we cannot teach our family members. We spend for that outside. You cannot expect our Mullik's family daughter dancing and singing. No. He is well, good(?)." Actually that is.... Dancing? Singing? What is this nonsense? For a respectable family? It is meant for the low-class professional. Pay them, they will dance. Or go to some prostitute. She will dance. So he said that "We have got some taste for dancing, but not that our family members should do that. We pay for that outside." So this art.... And among the theatrical, Girish Chandra Ghosh could not get a single response from any respectable family. Then he had to seek some young girl from the prostitute class. They became later on famous artists, Kusumakali Dāsī, this Dāsī.... Nowadays it has become a fashion that aristocratic family should join this cinema and spoil their character. Otherwise it was meant for the.... No respectable man.... You find the Bhāgavata description, especially for the brāhmaṇas, the professional who would come. They'll take their reward.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Such a pleasing planet, and these rascals say there is no life. The moon is described everywhere, the most pleasing planet. Actually, when there is moon in the sky, how it is pleasing. So that planet is meant for the high-class pious persons, and they get their life for ten thousands of years. They live very comfortably, drink soma-rasa. These are the descriptions we get from śāstra. And these rascals say it is desert. And we have to believe them. And practically we see how pleasing it is. As soon as the moon planet is there, the whole atmosphere becomes pleasing. And it is desert. And we have to believe these rascal scientists and disregard the description of the śāstra. What do you think? Is that very good intelligence?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: We disregard the statement of Vyāsadeva, and we have to accept the statement of a rascal drunkard. (laughter) We are not so unfortunate. The unfortunate, they can believe that, we cannot believe.

Devotee (1): Now they have published pictures of Mars.

Prabhupāda: Let them do that, befool others. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). Because others, they are blind, this blind man, whatever he says, they believe. They will say "Perhaps ten millions of years ago there was life, perhaps." These things are going on. But we know every planet is full of living entity. There is regular life and there are streets. The streets are paved with pearls, corals, in Svargaloka. We have got information. And what is their information? Scratching some sand and bring it, that's all. As if sand is not available. But we give information there are planets where the pavements are with pearls. Go and bring some pearls. There is the ocean of milk. Bring some milk from there. And then we shall understand that you are making some research. Simply all over the universe dry sand? And here the population is increasing. Just see. We have to believe all this. Everything is by nature vacant and all people and animals are here. And we have to believe that. Hmm. Read it. They are exposing more and more about their nonsensical scientific inquiry.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: We get information from the śāstra, every planet is full of life.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, that there is life in other, some planets.

Prabhupāda: Janaḥ-kirna, this very word is used janaḥ-kirna. Congested with life. And we have got description, this loka, this loka, this loka is fighting sometimes with other loka, or that... Everything is description there. There is milk ocean, there is this ocean, that ocean, varieties of. So if we have to take these rascals' version, they're simply rogues, then the whole śāstra becomes false.

Atreya Ṛṣi: The point in the śāstra is that every...

Prabhupāda: And they will advertise that these descriptions in the śāstras, they are all mythology. Of course, this kind of bluffing cannot go because suppose this Mars expedition becomes a failure, like that, the same... It will be failure. So next time, if they propose, I think people will be hesitant to allow them to. Simply bringing people rocks and sands, without any utility, after spending so much money. How long they can repeat this, "Yes, we went to this planet, rocks. We went to this-rocks." So we see variety. Is the so many luminaries, simply rocks and sands? The moon is full of rocks and it's so illuminating? Whole universe is illuminated so nice, moonshine. So many stars illuminating and they're rocks and sand? We have to believe it?

Jñānagamya: They are saying there is life on Mars. They are seeing microbes, small little living entities, they are detecting these with their machines. So they are seeing, there is some life.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Why you bring in religion? We are talking of knowledge.

Mrs. Sahani: Knowledge is there in all the religions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Religion is now misunderstood. Religion is described in the dictionary, "a faith." So faith..., your faith may be something, my faith may be something, that is not religion. Religion is described in the Vedic literature, "the law given by God." That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). So, just like law means the order given by the state, similarly, religion means the order given by God. So if you do not know what is God, what is His order, then what is your religion? Do you believe it or not? If you do not know what is God, if you do not know what is His word or what is His order, then where is your religion? If you do not know what is the government and if you do not know what is the government's order, then where is the question of law-abiding? Religion means, according to Vedic description.... Just like Kṛṣṇa said, mām ekām śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is religion. Sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Give up all this nonsense. Surrender unto Me." So what is the objection? Religion is one, surrender to God. So where is the objection? And God says that "You surrender to Me." So where is the objection? Religion cannot be two. Religion is one, surrender to God. If I say, "You are Muslim, you surrender to God, " do you have any objection? If I say to Christian, "You surrender to God," will he have any objection? Therefore religion is one; there cannot be two religions. Why you are bringing other religions? There is no question of other religions. Religion is one. You accept it?

Mrs. Sahani: Yes.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: THat is misfortune. Ignorance means misfortune. The unfortunate persons are those who are ignorant, uneducated. Therefore you have to take education to become fortunate. And that education is being imparted by Kṛṣṇa, but you don't take it. That is misfortune. If you take education from Kṛṣṇa, you become fortunate. So why don't you take it? Kṛṣṇa has said this very thing.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

These are the classes. One who does not take the advantage of Kṛṣṇa's instruction, he's immediately grouped in these category: duṣkṛtinaḥ, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamaḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, āsuraṁ bhāvam. Kṛṣṇa says personally. One who does not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), then how he's grouped? He's grouped:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

He is grouped. Duṣkṛtinaḥ means he has got intelligence, kṛti. Kṛti means one who has got intelligence, merit. But his merit is being utilized for sinful activities, duṣkṛtinaḥ. If merit is used for good work, that is called sukṛtina. And if the merit is used for manufacturing something harmful to the human society, then it is duṣkṛtina. Merit is there. A thief, rascal and cheater, he has got good merit, but he's using it for bad purpose. They are duṣkṛtina. Why he has become so? Mūḍhāḥ. Because he does not know his interest, ass. The example is ass, mūḍhāḥ. The ass does not know his interest. He is loading tons of cloth for others' interest, for a morsel of grass. And the rascal does not know he can get grass anywhere. Why he is taking so much trouble? Muḍḥāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino, narādhamāḥ. And this human life was meant for understanding this, nara, but he has misused his life's asset. Narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind. How it happened? They are so educated. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Their education has no value. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam, don't care for Kṛṣṇa, don't care for God. "We are everything, we are God." This is going on. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These are descriptions in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Everything is explained there. If somebody comes to Kṛṣṇa even with material motive, ārto arthārthī... There are four classes of men: ārto, arthārthī, jñānī, jijñāsur. So jñānī, for the sake of knowledge, tries to understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. Jijñāsur, inquisitive, actually what is Kṛṣṇa. And those who are less than them, when they become distressed, artha, or in need of money, they pray to Kṛṣṇa. Still, they have gone to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are called sukṛtinaḥ. And one who has not gone to Kṛṣṇa, simply speculating, that description, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These things are there.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is described in the Vedas, Vaitaraṇī, cross from the material to the spiritual world.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And it is fire in both sides, and it is like a razor edge, it could be very thin. And the saintly persons close their eyes and pass it. Kṛṣṇa makes them pass.

Prabhupāda: Similar description is there, bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām (SB 10.14.58). Bhavāmbudhiḥ, the great ocean of material nescience, it becomes vatsa-padam, just like the water contained in the hoof impression of a calf. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ param. Exactly animal civilization. Animal does not know what is future, what is past, what is going to happen, nothing. The human civilization has become like that. Professor Kotovsky said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body, everything is finished." He's a big professor in Moscow. This is their civilization. What do they explain about the lower animals? Wherefrom they come, the birds, beasts, trees, insects?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Where, in Koran?

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say the modern scientists.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Here?

Interviewer (5): In Hyderabad.

Interviewer (4): You have some project?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying to... (to devotee:) Land, what is that land? You can give the description.

Devotee: It is near (indistinct) village. It has not yet been confirmed, it is under procedure, but we are trying to develop a big project there, depending on formal procedures...

Prabhupāda: Our project is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Come here, live peacefully, keep your body fit, and work for yourself, you produce your own food, you produce your own cloth, don't be very much anxious for artificial necessities, and save time, and be advanced in spiritual life.

Interviewer (3): Some sort of religious epithet.

Prabhupāda: It is not exactly religious. You have taken by it because we misunderstand the meaning of religion. Religion generally understood as a kind of cult and faith. But in the Vedic literature, religion means the characteristic. Just like sugar is sweet, that is its religion. If sugar becomes pungent, that is not sugar's characteristic. Similarly, a human being must be God conscious. So that God consciousness is religion. Because in the human form of life one can understand what is God, and if he does not become, he remains an animal. Animal cannot understand. So therefore his business is how to athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is not our manufactured word, this is the Vedānta words. Atha, now we have got this human form body, based on that transmigration of the soul after millions and millions of years, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), you have got this human form of life, now it is your business to inquire about the Absolute Truth. This is the business of human life. And āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna, how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex life and how to defend, that is animal business. If you remain busy with these four principles of bodily necessities of life, āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna, then you remain on he animal platform. Beyond that, when you inquire about God, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So we are trying to raise him from this animal life to human life. This is our business.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1976, Hyderabad:

Hari-śauri: In Rome?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Old. And hundreds of tourists go to see them.

Hari-śauri: That Coliseum is very famous all over the world. That Coliseum?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām

(BG 9.25)

After this body, one has to go somewhere. So this is the description, who will go where. Mad-yājino 'pi mām. Those who are preparing to go back to Godhead, they can go. Otherwise, if you go, want to go in the higher planetary system or in the lower planet... That you also go. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We go from here. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...inquires, "Why you are chanting?" The simple reply is that "We have to go somewhere after death. We are going to Godhead. And you do not know where you'll go." Thik hai? They do not know where they will go. The animals do not know. Huh?

Indian man: We know where we have to go, to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If stop then how their work will go on? They manufacture ideas and spend money. This is the difficulty. Everyone manufactures some idea. And break it, do it, dig it. Money is coming and they are spending it. They cannot adjust whatever is there. Big big ideas. Big big belly. And money we have to bring from America. "Give me one lakh, give me one lakh, 15,000. I make idea, you pay." So many rooms you can make showroom. Why breaking this door, breaking that door? Too many cooks spoils the broth. And repairing and, what is called, addition, alteration, will never stop. I do not know how to stop it. Now, the other, Yesterday that Viśvambhara said, you were here, no? Viśvambhara said, suggesting there should be raft (?) three feet high, seven feet high, this high... Everyone will suggest. And spend money. Any friend, you bring him, he'll suggest so that you may spend it. And wherefrom money will come? Oh, that is your look after. I am your friend, I am giving you good suggestion. Break it. Do it. I am your friend. You break your head. (laughs) There was a Mohammedan king, Raj Uddin or some... Nizamuddin. Nizamuddin there is a tomb in Delhi. He was poet. So if some friends come he would read some writing, and he will suggest, the friend will suggest, "Why don't you make like this." "Oh, it is good. All right." He'll do it. Whatever he says. And when he goes away, then again makes his own. So the secretary said, "Why you are changing?" "What can I do? Those... That is my friend. And that is nonsense; therefore I am again doing what I wrote." So we have to do that. As soon as you call anybody, he'll give you some suggestion. "Make this alteration, make this alteration." So description of the sādhu is there. It is very nice. Where they will find this description all over the world? Hm?

Harikeśa: I think there's only one person who's following that description.

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, I say about Bhāgavata's description. How perfect it is in any subject matter. I have tried to explain what is there in the Bhāgavatam, expand it. That is not my explanation, that is Kṛṣṇa's explanation. I cannot explain now. That moment I could explain. That means Kṛṣṇa's... I can understand that. That the description is very nicely given. Although it is my writing, but I know it is not my writing. It is Kṛṣṇa's writing. So we should read Bhāgavatam always. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā (SB 1.2.18). We should not waste our time. So we have to check that closet. You can... (break) How they can say there is no God? Then you are only intelligent. All are fools. That means you are fool number one. If you think like that...

Harikeśa: Yes, but in India...

Prabhupāda: No, now you cannot say Indians. (laughs) Now we cannot say only Indians worship Kṛṣṇa. Whole world. That is God. They are not fools and rascals. They are educated, they are civilized. Why they accept Kṛṣṇa as God? Yesterday I was telling who? I think Caraṇam?

Hari-śauri: Caraṇāravindam.

Prabhupāda: Caraṇāravindam. That the Englishmen were ruling over us. Now here is English boy, he's giving me massage and fanning me. What is the reason? Unless he feels something obligation, that "He has given us Kṛṣṇa," what business he has got? Not for him, for all of you, to give so valuable free service, unless there is this sense. What do you think? You have no obligation. You are European, American. I am Indian. It is through this via media Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is God. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Because they have got sense that "We have got God," therefore they are feeling so much obliged. Kṛṣṇa is God, there is no doubt about it. It is not yet ready?

Hari-śauri: They're making a plate now.

Room Conversation -- September 17, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...one horse within the mouth—that is God. One hill. One Pūtanā, sucking the breast, her life goes. That is God. Why shall I take some cheap God? We are not so foolish. Here is the... So many great saintly persons hearing about God. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). They are fools, hearing about Kṛṣṇa? Such great, great personalities? And Śukadeva Gosvāmī is speaking. Are they fools? All of them fools? One, two may be fool. They were wholesale fool? All the great personalities, they're all fools? Asita, Devala, Vyāsa, Nārada—all big personalities. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu—they're all fools? I may be fool. They are not fools. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Why shall I accept a rascal God? Varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ (SB 2.1.1). "Oh, you want to hear about Kṛṣṇa?" Varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ. Śukadeva was praising: "Oh, glorious, you have taken... Yes." Here is God. Breathing, and innumerable universes are coming. Here is God. Sleeping and breathing is not unnatural. He is also. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaḥ-like us. But like not us. He can breathe and... That is the difference. Breathing is common. I breathe, He breathes. That's all right. But His breathing, my breathing is not the same breathing. He eats, I eat. That's all right. But when He eats, Mother Yaśodā sees all the universes are within Him. They cannot understand this. That we are equal, that's all right, but there is difference. So far, I am a living being, He's also a living being, but He's supreme living being. How? Because I breathe, some dust comes and goes out, and when He breathes some universes come out. This is the difference. So because He is breathing and I am breathing, therefore equal. No. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He sees, but not like us. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. He's seeing every particular thing, anywhere. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu. I can see within my limit, or I can feel pains and pleasure within my... But He knows everything, everywhere. Sarva-kṣetreṣu. And because I cannot become like Him, therefore Māyāvādīs say kalpana, "This is imagination." He wants to make God like himself, and he wants to become like God. Therefore all description about God he thinks imagination, kalpana. Kalpana. Dr. Frog. Huh? More than this water, the...? How it is possible? Atlantic Ocean, very very big. What is that big? Maybe four feet, five, yes. Otherwise kalpana. It it is not within his "feet" estimation, then he's kalpana, imagination. This is their knowledge. (indistinct) I can think of three feet, four feet, five feet, ten feet, hundred feet-like that. And when I'm informed, "No, no, it is unlimited feet." Ah, this is kalpana. This is going on. So what other news? I have to send one letter to the governor. (break) Sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ. Yathā hi sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ samādiśan vipra mahad-guṇas tathā. Where this class of literature is now. Yathā sūtyām, in the maternity home or maternity room, Sūtyām. Abhijāta-kovidāḥ. The astrologers who can estimate the newly born child's destiny. Whatever they predicted, according to them, yathā hi sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ samādiśan. They said that "This child will be like this"—exactly he became. Parīkṣid dvija-varya-śikṣayā, and being trained up by first-class brāhmaṇas, and the child came perfectly the king. Where is that king?

Hari-śauri: There're no kings.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And if I teach that "I'll teach you how to become truthful," they will laugh. People will say, "Can anyone exist nowadays, simply becoming truthful?" Then damaḥ, self-controlled. If I say, "Come here. I shall teach you how to control your senses," he will laugh, that "What is this nonsense? We shall enjoy life and shall control senses?" This is the description of the first-class man, śamo damas titikṣā ārjava, saralatā, simplicity. No one is prepared to become first-class man. They will laugh. These are all primitive ideas.

Dr. Kneupper: You think there is nobody like that?

Prabhupāda: Not nobody, there are. But people generally will not like, that "These are primitive ideas, to become truthful, simple, and controlling the mind, controlling... These are all imaginary things. How one can live in the struggle for existence by becoming truthful?" They will say like that. Therefore everyone is fourth-class. And the second-class man, kṣatriya?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's it. So you'll find everyone of this description, either sinful, or lowest of the mankind, or rascal, or puffed-up with false knowledge, but the basic principle is: no God. So the only solution is let them first of all become God conscious. Then all solution. Otherwise there is no hope.

Dr. Kneupper: The problem is very complex...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it must be complex. They will create complexity.

Dr. Kneupper: And the solution is very simple.

Prabhupāda: Solution. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām... And that we are preaching, that "You become God conscious. Everything will be solved." And who is caring for us? Rather, they are giving opposition, that "These rascals are kidnapping our sons, brainwashing, controlling the mind," creating courts case. Just see. This is going on.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa:

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ

avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito

yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

(SB 1.5.22)

Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, suppose you are a well known philosopher. If you say, "There is God," so many people will hear: "Oh, here is a big philosopher." Therefore your studies of philosophy will be perfect when you establish, "Yes, there is God." Otherwise it is useless because you will waste your time and you'll waste... Already they are Godless.

Dr. Kneupper: How does one establish clearly?

Prabhupāda: That requires thinking. That requires knowledge. Therefore we are giving so many books. You can study. You can present the case nicely with argument, philosophy. That is your duty. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānu... When you are able to describe God very philosophically, scientifically, mathematically, then your education is perfect.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That depends on your philosophy. You are reading so many books. How do you select, "This is nice." That depends on your philosophy. But if you accept it that it is spoken by God, then there is no argument. But why should you accept it, spoken by God? You read it, whether how much logical, how much full of knowledge. Then you can say. The same thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "Within this body there is the soul, and because the soul is there, therefore body is changing." So anyone can... Any layman can understand. Things are there like that. So there is no difficulty. If we take, "Oh, this description, the transmigration of the soul-Hindu idea." Why Hindu idea? It is science. As soon as we consider it "Hindu," then it becomes sectarian. Then you will say, "I have got my Christian idea. Why shall I take your Hindu idea?"

Dr. Kneupper: What is your view towards Christianity?

Prabhupāda: Christianity is to some extent, but you have got different edition of Christianity. So far I know, as soon as they say, "Christian," immediately the question is, "To which Christian party you belong?" What is that?

Hari-śauri: Christians, yeah, Protestants, Methodists, Catholics...

Prabhupāda: So which is correct Christianity we do not know. But we have no such thing. There is no party. Bhagavad-gītā, there cannot be any party. If anyone makes any party, he is immediately cancelled. But at least we believe in the Ten Commandments. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." But why all the Christians are simply busy in killing? That is my first question.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We have applied for 350 acres of land from the government. The process is going on. If we get, then we shall spend crores of rupees for... The description is...

Jagadīśa: "Within the next ten years, according to ISKCON plans, the Māyāpur project will extend to a complete Vedic city with fifty thousand inhabitants, its own university, airport, and stadium. It will also claim the world's largest planetarium with 410 foot high Temple of Understanding..." (break) ...civilization.

Dr. Kneupper: It sounds like a beautiful project. That is near Bombay, now?

Prabhupāda: No, that is near Calcutta.

Dr. Kneupper: Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: About sixty miles.

Dr. Kneupper: Have they progressed much now?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the enquiry is finished. Now government is considering to give that land. (indistinct) that land. There were many others, land offers in Hyderabad, but I wanted to start this institution in the, on the birth site of Lord Caitanya. Otherwise we have got better land. We have asked government for 350 acres but we have already bought in Hyderabad, 600 acres. Here also we can get immediately 500, 600 acres, like that. We have already got another plot of land, 100 acres in Ahmedabad. So there are so many lands available but I wanted to start this project in Māyāpur, the birthsite of Lord Caitanya. Therefore we are (indistinct). If they say no, then we shall attempt it somewhere else.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: Then he is servant, always servant?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nityānām, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaḥ... (Hindi) Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). (Hindi) That is his foolishness. And foolish person will accept. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Therefore He shall remain the Supreme always. We have to refer to the Vedic śāstras. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is description of Bhagavān. That He has nothing to do, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. (Hindi) (Explains in Hindi that Kṛṣṇa does not need or show any magic, when He was just a child He killed Pūtanā. Not that by meditation He became God. Bhagavān is always Bhagavān.) Either he is three months old or three years old or three hundred years old. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate, nobody can be equal or greater than Him. If someone is equal to Him then how He is Bhagavān?

Mr. Malhotra: How it can be that so many sages of the past, they proclaimed ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Asura-buddhi and sura-buddhi. Due to our little independence. Just like we are talking. So we do not agree. Therefore we are talking. So one of us may be asura and one may be sura. Therefore we do not agree. Otherwise, there is no use of talking. So that is natural. That is the conditioned stage. Because we are conditioned by the material nature, some of us are asuras and some of them suras. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke 'smin daiva āsura eva ca (BG 16.6). There are two kinds of men. Daiva, devatā and asura. Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ smṛto daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Those who are devotees of the Lord, they are devatā, and just opposite number is asura. Who does not recognize the authority of God, he is asura. He himself becomes God foolishly. That is not God. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. This, about the sun, description in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ, unlimited potency, energy, heating energy. Such a powerful planet. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. Still it is carrying out the order of somebody. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. I offer my obeisances to Govinda. But if I say I am equal to Govinda, I can stop sun. "Don't bother me by heating. Stop." Will it become...? Then how I become all-powerful? Let me stop the activities of the sun. Or at night there is no sun, can I ask the sun, "Get up, I want light immediately," is it possible? Then how I become the God? Nobody cares for my order.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand. They're so much in darkness, mūḍha. "Today I am very great national leader, my country, my..." So on, so on. And tomorrow by the laws of nature if I become a dog in Europe, then where is my nationalism? And it is possible. What is called? Because you are under nature's law, you are not independent. Therefore they have given up this idea that there is life after death. This is their first ignorance. Everyone is thinking that this life is everything for twenty years or thirty years or hundred years-eat, drink, be merry, enjoy then everything is finished. The whole Russian people, they think like that. Not whole, I don't, I cannot say but the learned, their learned professors, they think like that. The life is ended after this body. So our people also, our these politicians, they also think like that. So this is the platform of ignorance. And people are so much (indistinct), born into this ignorance. It is very, very difficult to raise them from this ignorance. This is our task. The first business is to convince him that "Your life continues." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). But it is very difficult for the modern man to understand. They have been so poorly educated that it is very difficult. But this is the first beginning of knowledge and if we are in the conception that "I am this body and the body is everything," then we are no better that the cats and dogs. So this is a movement to raise people from the platform of cats' and dogs' life. It is little difficult but we have to do it. That is our mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, para-upakāra. They're living like cats and dogs, do something good for them so that they may live like actual human beings. This is our... So you kindly stay here for some days, read our books and if there is any question, doubt, I shall be very glad to enlighten you. But this is the fact, the whole world is misguided by the rascal leaders, I must say that. Andhā, andhā is the last word of rascaldom, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā. If I say (to) somebody, "You are rascal." There is maybe, partially he may be intelligent. But when we say andhā, andhā, then his life is... He cannot see anything. So that is the description given by Bhāgavatam, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). They are durāśayā, hopelessly hopeful, trying to adjust things—bahir-artha-māninaḥ—by external energy. Simply wasting time, it cannot be. This is the position. So we are trying little bit and if you help us, it is very kind of you. Everyone should help this movement, prāṇair arthair virair arcair, by sacrificing life, artha money, and intelligence.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...in Vṛndāvana. And try to organize this Gurukula as their world attraction. That will be your success. Simply teach them nicely English and Sanskrit. And our books are there. And regular habits: going to the Yamunā in procession, timely get up early in the morning, attending class, clean dress, clean bedding, clean room. Śikhā-sūtra. The Vāmanadeva gave this description. Where is that book?

Jagadīśa: I don't know. Pradyumna may have taken it.

Prabhupāda: There were two books. Woman... Girls should be taught how to become faithful wife, how to learn nice cooking, cleansing, dressing. Simple method. There is no objection of their becoming scholar, but that is not necessary. They have got natural inclination to give service by cooking, cleansing, dressing. Cleanliness is the first necessity. That is hygienic, spiritual, and calm, quiet. India has got special facility to remain clean. Only in this country you can take thrice bathing. In other countries... Easy there. In your country there is hot water. There is no difficulty if one practices. I think our men have such practice. But this cleanness is this taking bathing at least twice. That keeps a man very clean.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Also, he also. He also takes. So if it is practiced, it keeps health very nice. I was taking all along. Since I was attacked, heart, they said you should be kept from catching cold.

Hari-śauri: You wanted that description of Vāmanadeva as the dwarf brahmacārī? It says, "Mother earth gave Him a deerskin, and the demigod of the moon, who is the king of the forest, gave Him a brahma-daṇḍa, the rod of a brahmacārī. His mother, Aditi, gave Him a cloth for underwear, and the Deity presiding over the heavenly kingdom offered Him an umbrella. O King, Lord Brahmā offered a waterpot to the inexhaustible Supreme Personality of Godhead. The seven sages offered Him kuśa grass, and mother Sarasvatī gave Him a string of rudrākṣa beads. When Vāmanadeva had thus been given the sacred thread, Kuvera, the king of the Yakṣas, gave Him a pot for begging alms."

Prabhupāda: In Kanpur there is a brahmacārī aśrama. Sometimes gṛhasthas, they invite the brahmacārīs to feed them, and when a brahmacārī is initiated, they give them this pot. So that brahmacārī aśrama, the man who is maintaining, he occasionally collects these pots, so, and he sells all these pots to a brass merchant. People give sacred thread, a pot. As they give in charity to the brāhmaṇas, they give in charity to the brahmacārīs.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: ...then you become designated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is conditioned. The Vṛndāvana life means the gopīs, the cowherd boys, the cowherdsmen, the elderly men, Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodārāṇī, his (her) status, every-cows, calves, trees, flowers, Yamunā—everyone is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. That is the Vṛndāvana. They have no other business. That is Vṛndāvana. Everywhere, the whole description of the Kṛṣṇa book, center is Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, Kṛṣṇa book's so nice.

Prabhupāda: That is Vṛndāvana life, either in rasa dance or the cowherd's play or killing the demons or in dining and dancing. The friends are eating, they are being stolen by Brahmā—but the center is Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. All activities are going on, just like in other place. But here in Vṛndāvana, all activities centered around Kṛṣṇa. When Brahmā is stealing His friends, the center is Kṛṣṇa. The demon is coming to destroy—the center is Kṛṣṇa. When there is forest fire, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana beauty. In happiness, in danger, in perplexities, in friendship—everything Kṛṣṇa. Kāliya-damana. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has gone to Yamunā. He has fallen down in the..., to fight the Kāliya." It is a very, what is called, calamity. But still, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is the beauty of Vṛndāvana. "Kṛṣṇa has entered Yamunā to fight with Kāliya." It is not at all good news for Mother Yaśodā, Nanda, friends and family, not at all. Their life is lost. But still the Kṛṣṇa is center. This is Vṛndāvana life. In everything Kṛṣṇa is center, anything. We are having just like: "Kṛṣṇa's a bad propaganda," opposition.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Therefore religion means what is given by God, either directly or through His son or through His servant. That is religion. So if you do not know who is God and what He has given, then where is your religion? Religion means the law given by God. So you should know who is God and what law He has given. Then you have religion. You say you do not know what is God.

Rāmeśvara: This man was saying that in the Bible there is a description of God speaking to Moses and Abraham, and He identified Himself as Jehovah, not Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is the main point, that what God said.

Rāmeśvara: What God said? He told Abraham to go to Israel and to worship only Him. He said, "There shall be no other Gods. Just Me." And then He told Moses the Ten Commandments.

Prabhupāda: So God said that... God must say. So you say God: Jehovah; and we say God: Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong?

Rāmeśvara: "The wrong is that Kṛṣṇa was a man who lived on earth five hundred thousand years ago and..."

Prabhupāda: So Jehovah was God.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That means—that's all right—that God is so powerful that He can do by His thinking. We also admit. But that does not mean God is not doing. But He is doing in a finer way. You rascal, you do in a grosser way. God does in a finer way. But that does not mean God is inactive.

Rāmeśvara: And he was criticizing our description of God coming as a boar...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is God.

Rāmeśvara: ...and God coming as a tortoise...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is God.

Rāmeśvara: ...and a fish, half man, half lion.

Prabhupāda: That means God.

Rāmeśvara: He was criticizing that this is mythology.

Prabhupāda: So that means you do not know what is God. God can come as He likes. That is God. But you rascal, you do not know what is God; therefore you are restricting, "He cannot come in this way." That is your restriction. Why God should be restricted? (knock) Yes?

Rāmeśvara: Come in.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But they have never used it against us. But now they have started. One devotee, a girl from Berkeley temple who is a very big book distributor... Sometimes she could collect five, six hundred dollars in one day. She was just kidnapped—by order of the court. They have a psychologist who listens to the parents' description, and on the basis of that secondhand report the psychologist...

Prabhupāda: No, kidnapping, that is already law there. If one is minor or without the permission of the parent, with police force she or..., can be kidnapped.

Rāmeśvara: But this is not for minors. This is for adults.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh.

Rāmeśvara: This is a new thing, that the psychologist will write some report to the court that "Based on the information I have received, this person is not mentally competent. Therefore this person must be put under the guardianship of their parents even if they are an adult. Otherwise they will harm themselves." So in this way the psychologists...

Prabhupāda: But any psychologist will give report or anyone can...

Rāmeśvara: Anyone. You just pay him, and he'll give you a report. They are rascals. And then the court issues an order that "Now this person's freedom is taken away," and she's put under the charge of her family for thirty days. Then they come with the police, and they give the paper, and they take her away by force, and they fly her to one of these camps where they harass her for thirty days.

Gargamuni: Brainwash.

Rāmeśvara: Try to break their faith.

Gargamuni: Actually they are brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: So this can be done by law?

Rāmeśvara: They have some law, and they are misusing it for this purpose.

Prabhupāda: Then what to do?

Rāmeśvara: Well we have... I mentioned we have got these lawyers who want to start a nationwide organization to fight this law for us. So the head of this group is in San Francisco...

Prabhupāda: Now, the... Externally, it appears that anyone can be kidnapped simply by the certificate of the psychologist.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And he is not ordinary man. He is...

Rāmeśvara: No. He is the Deputy of Lok Sabha Secretariat. You should write more... I have to go over this with you to get more descriptions of each place. Central Government.

Gargamuni: I have... Oh, right. I have the full reviews too.

Rāmeśvara: And like if it says Sardar Patel University, where is that?

Gargamuni: In Gujarat.

Rāmeśvara: I just have to add a few things.

Hari-śauri: Will you be going for a walk this morning, Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's quarter to seven. If you want to go now, we could go.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So let us go.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda wants to go for a walk.

Gargamuni: Oh. I don't know the area, so I don't know where to go, but Gaura-Govinda probably knows the parks. That place where we get the water? There's a little park there.

Hari-śauri: He said there's a couple of parks up near the lake too. That's where he wanted to go yesterday morning.

Gargamuni: Yeah, I don't know. He doesn't know himself, I don't think.

Rāmeśvara: What is this editor of Kalya?

Gargamuni: Kalyan? He's passed. H. P. Poddar.

Prabhupāda: He was very famous man.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: He doesn't know what to call this state, so he considers it similar to a spiritual body. But anyway, it appears to be a subtle body. He says that "People find themselves when they're out of their physical bodies, that although they may try to communicate to others, no one seems to hear them, that they are also invisible to others, and that they lack solidity. People were walking..." Here's a description of one man who was in a car accident. "People were walking up from all directions to get to the car accident. As they came by, they wouldn't seem to notice me. They would just keep walking with their eyes straight ahead. As they came very close, I would try to get out of their way, but they would walk right through me."

Prabhupāda: Car accident? He is lying down?

Rāmeśvara: His body is lying down, and somehow he experiences that he has left his body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...

Hari-śauri: He's observing the whole scene.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Rāmeśvara: The man. The living being.

Prabhupāda: The man who suffered from the car accident?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is natural.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Now, this, this is fact, that when this body is no more working, the subtle body carries the soul to another gross body. That they cannot see, but it acts. This science they do not know. Seeing is always not competent, material eye. Just like the example is given that flavor is carried by the air. It is being carried, but I cannot see. But it is being carried. That is transmigration of the soul. The soul is carried by the subtle body to another particular body, and according to his karma under superior examination, the soul, a very small particle, one ten-thousandth part of the hair, he is put into the semina of the particular father, and he injects. So the soul takes place in the womb of the mother. She supplies the material to develop the next body. This is the process, transmigration. Then, when the body is complete to come out, then another body works. Another chapter begins: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So this is development.

Rāmeśvara: They have a description of how these people experience communication, talking or hearing. He says, "Hearing can only be called so by analogy." Mostly they say that they do not really hear physical voices or sounds. Rather, they seem to pick up the thoughts of the persons around them. As one woman put it, "I could see people all around, and I could understand what they were saying. I did not hear them audibly, as I am hearing you. It was more like knowing what they were thinking, but only in my mind, not in their actual vocabulary. I would catch it the second before they opened their mouth to speak." Like reading minds.

Prabhupāda: Mind is also material. Up to ether. Beyond that, ether, there is soul.

Rāmeśvara: That was a description of one person who had this experience of being outside their body.

Prabhupāda: No, no... Death means all previous experience forgotten. That is death. Otherwise there is no death.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: And they say you can understand a person not by hearing his words but by catching the thoughts from his mind. These people report that kind of experience, that they can understand another man from his thoughts even before he speaks. But the most fantastic thing of all, which I'm not clear about, is they have a description... Almost every person that they interviewed had the same experience of a very bright light. Now this is the way they describe it. "The first appearance of this light is very dim, but rapidly it gets brighter and brighter until it reaches an unearthly brilliance." Every person agreed that this light was actually a living being and it had a definite personality. It was emanating a feeling of warmth and friendship, and it was asking them questions. And it describes the two main questions: "Are you ready to die?" "What have you done with your life to show me? What have you done with your life that is sufficient?" And then it goes on to say that all these people felt that this being who appeared to be like a luminous being was concerned with two things: how they had developed love and how they were searching for knowledge. Every one of them had this same description of a being of light. A luminous being.

Prabhupāda: That is fact. Because we are part and parcel of God, therefore there is illumination.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Here's the description of that. "The initial appearance of this luminous being and his questions are the prelude to a moment of startling intensity, during which this luminous being presents to the person a panoramic review of his life. It is obvious that this luminous being can see the individual's whole life and he doesn't need the information," but he is getting the dead man to reflect on his past life. It says that "The remembrance is extraordinarily rapid. Everything appears at once and can be taken in with one mental glance. Yet despite its rapidity, all the..."

Prabhupāda: That is happening in dream also. So many remembrances come together; it becomes topsy-turvied. Therefore we see all of a sudden: "Oh, it is done long, long ago."

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They say that the review, even though it's very quick, is incredibly vivid.

Hari-śauri: Find out where it discounts about punishment and reward.

Prabhupāda: One idea, another idea overlaps. Therefore it appears mysterious.

Rāmeśvara: Now, we're taught in the Bhāgavata that when a soul, when a living being quits his body, if he's in the human body, he's either taken by the Yamadūtas or the Viṣṇudūtas. So this description of their encountering this luminous being, it doesn't seem to fit in with the description of the Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: No. Luminous when they are taken by Viṣṇudūtas.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But again, that's just subjective. These people who encountered this luminous being, they did not feel that they were being judged. They just felt that he was their friend coming to help them. That is their description.

Prabhupāda: And how they can feel they are being judged? That very, very subtle thing, they cannot imagine it.

Hari-śauri: They get shown this review of their life, but they don't feel that they're being judged on their sinful activities.

Prabhupāda: Then why different types of forms? Who is giving them different types of forms?

Hari-śauri: Well, the thing is these people have not reached the point of death because actually they came back to life. So it's not in their karma that they were going to die at that time. So we couldn't figure out who this luminous being is.

Prabhupāda: When the judgment will be given... There was time still to live in their particular body. So after finishing that karma, then the next body.

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: So we have new reviews too from two professors in Finland. We have one who is a man in the Department of Nuclear Physics. He said the Indian astronomers... First... He read the Fifth Canto, with all its scientific descriptions. First he says that he did not think that they possessed instruments to measure distances, but anyway, he said their understanding is truly remarkable. Then he goes on to say... He compares it with Western astronomy. It's a long review.

Rāmeśvara: What did he say about Prabhupāda?

Satsvarūpa: There wasn't much in that way.

Prabhupāda: But they can measure the distance from one planet to another? Their astronomical measurement?

Satsvarūpa: No. Just by theory.

Prabhupāda: So how they can...?

Rāmeśvara: Read it out loud.

Satsvarūpa: He wants that you... He said, "The translator frequently adds comments containing information from other Vedic scriptures, for instance, ancient astronomical calculations referred to by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. It would be highly interesting to have a compilation of such astronomical texts translated into English. One can only hope that the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust endeavors to do this to the great benefit of the historians of science."

Prabhupāda: We shall do it. I am searching after some astronomer.

Rāmeśvara: There is also a review from one Indian professor, how this science...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they have become interested in our literature.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Whether he completely agrees or not, he's fascinated by it.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. This is everything, description. So everything is there. We should take advantage and become perfect. And this is the chance of becoming perfect, the human form of life. If we miss it—finished. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra... Again go to the cycle of birth. Where is guarantee I am not going to be a dog? Who can check it? Nobody can. Nature's law is very strong. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse, Bhagavad-gītā. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.

Pradyumna:

puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi

bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān

kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya

sad-asad-yoni-janmasu

(BG 13.22)

Prabhupāda: Why one is taking birth as a brāhmaṇa and why one is taking birth as a dog? So kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). If you become, associate with sattva-guṇa, then you are elevated more and more. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. You remain where you are if you associate rajo-guṇa. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And if you practice jaghanya, most abominable practices of tamo-guṇa, then go down. You cannot check it. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Guṇaiḥ again. Just like if you have infected some disease, cholera, you must suffer from cholera. If you have infected disease of smallpox, then you must suffer from smallpox. You cannot check it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. You should be very cautious so that you may not be affected by this infectious disease. Therefore you require sadācāra. Always remain neat and clean and always associate with sādhus and Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be protected. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). This is the process.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: And then it stays there until the next day.

Prabhupāda: Then next day means so many millions of years. That is practically half-annihilation. In this way, a short annihilation, short creation, it will go until Brahmā dies.

Hari-śauri: That description of Brahmā receiving knowledge through the heart, is that at the beginning of every day, or is that just at the beginning of the creation of the universe?

Prabhupāda: Beginning of the creation.

Hari-śauri: Oh. It's not every day, then.

Prabhupāda: Every day or... It may be. Just like we have got experience, day and night, night sleeping. So at night I forget everything. When I awake, wake up from sleep, then I begin my duty.

Hari-śauri: But if the top planets are still functioning...

Prabhupāda: No, this is the position of Brahmā also. Brahmā does not mean that he is liberated. Either Brahmā or ant, all of them are under material laws. The law is that at night I forget everything. When I wake up in the morning I remember. So that is the position of Brahmā. Suptotthita-nyāya. This is called "waking-up logic." Suptotthita-nyāya. Supta and utthita. Supta means sleeping, and utthita means to get up from sleep. So who is going to consider all this? They say it is mythology. They cannot properly answer, but they dismiss your proposal.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then you have to say that you have no idea what is God. Then they will be offended. Better not, that not to say. (laughs) We know it, that's all.

Pṛthu-putra: Just introduce it as it is. Just introduce as it is.

Prabhupāda: Let us with logic, philosophy, talk. There is no conception of God throughout the whole world. Vague idea.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Because in the description of Koran, what they think about spiritual world is like heavenly planets. It's all the opposite of what they experience now. Now they are living in a desert, so they think when we are going to get liberation we'll be full of water and beautiful women giving you honey. You don't have to work. This is their... This is described in Koran.

Prabhupāda: No, that is heaven.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes, it's heaven.

Prabhupāda: But do they think that there is eternal life?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That requires your fortune. Little intelligence. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). That intelligence is for the most fortunate person. That is not ordinary thing. But guru means who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa. If you go to a bogus man, that is your misfortune. So this is the description of guru, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement.

kibā vipra kibā nyāsī śūdra kene naya

yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya

(CC Madhya 8.128)

It doesn't matter whether he is a sannyāsī or gṛhastha or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, then he remains guru.

Guest (1): Science of Kṛṣṇa. If he knows about Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, or anything else...

Prabhupāda: To know about Kṛṣṇa. It is not also difficult. Science of Kṛṣṇa is there, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa speaks Himself. So to know the science of Kṛṣṇa is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful. If you want to purchase gold, you must go to a shop where actually gold is purchased, gold. If you do not know, then you'll be cheated. That is not also very difficult. That I have repeatedly said. Those who are interpreting in their own way, Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal; he's not guru. (loud kīrtana in background) As soon as he says an interpretation, "I think like this," you reject that. Why should we think like that? You should preach what Kṛṣṇa says. Then you are right. Why should you say something which Kṛṣṇa does not say? Then you are misguided. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He's not kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. So he's cheating. That is going on.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: To know about Kṛṣṇa. It is not also difficult. Science of Kṛṣṇa is there, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa speaks Himself. So to know the science of Kṛṣṇa is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful. If you want to purchase gold, you must go to a shop where actually gold is purchased, gold. If you do not know, then you'll be cheated. That is not also very difficult. That I have repeatedly said. Those who are interpreting in their own way, Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal; he's not guru. (loud kīrtana in background) As soon as he says an interpretation, "I think like this," you reject that. Why should we think like that? You should preach what Kṛṣṇa says. Then you are right. Why should you say something which Kṛṣṇa does not say? Then you are misguided. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He's not kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. So he's cheating. That is going on. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and these rascals say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa person." So he's a rascal. He's taking Kṛṣṇa's book and preaching against it. So what will be benefit if you go to such a rascal? Therefore there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru because if he's actually guru, he'll not say anything which Kṛṣṇa has not spoken. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. So guru is that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become a guru." And what is the function of the guru? Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. That is there. You haven't got to manufacture any instruction. Whatever is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, you say. You try to convince him with logic, with philosophy, with your knowledge, same thing, not philosophy. That is intelligence. And suppose Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Before that, Kṛṣṇa has described everything, why you should surrender to Kṛṣṇa. At last He says, "You surrender to Me." So there is no difficulty. Immediately Kṛṣṇa does not say, "You surrender to Me." But after describing everything—karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, so many things, politics, sociology, religion, everything—at last He says that "This is the most confidential part. You surrender unto Me." So one who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, how he can become guru? He's a cheater. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). One who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he's actually jñānavān. And this jñānavān is possible after many, many births; not so easily, to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. But if he's there, such a person—vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19)—he is mahātmā. That is mahātmā, not by stamping, anyone, a person, can become mahātmā. This is the symptom of mahātmā, one who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa fully. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. So that is guru, mahātmā, who knows vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Such mahātmā is guru. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). The guru has no other business than kṛṣṇa-bhajana. So that you have to see. You have to learn. You have to appreciate with persons who are actually engaged in kṛṣṇa-bhajana. Then you'll understand. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Sādhu means bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He's sādhu. Who? Who has no other business than Kṛṣṇa. Mix with such sādhu who are actually executing kṛṣṇa-bhajana. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ. This is the description of the sādhu. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). These things are there. There is no question of being misled. But if you purposefully mislead yourself, who can check? In the beginning you may commit some mistake, but when you study Bhagavad-gītā—who is sādhu, who is mahātmā, who is guru—then why shall we make, commit mistake again? If you have done mistake—you have gone to a rascal who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious—then when you read Bhagavad-gītā, you can understand. Why you are misled? Why you should be misled? If it is written on the road, "Keep to the left," why should you be misled and go to the right? Go to the left. Then you are not misled.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is mahātmā. Is there any purport?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. "In this verse the description of mahātmā is clearly given. The first sign of the mahātmā is that he is already situated in the divine nature. He is not under the control of material nature. And how is this effected? That is explained in the Seventh Chapter. One who surrenders unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, at once becomes freed from the control of material nature. That is the qualification."

Prabhupāda: Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti.

Satsvarūpa: "One can become free from the control of material nature as soon as he surrenders his soul to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the preliminary formula. Being marginal potency, as soon as the living entity is freed from the control of material nature, he is put under the guidance of the spiritual nature. The guidance of the spiritual nature is called daivīṁ prakṛtim, divine nature. So when one is promoted in that way by surrendering to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one attains to the stage of a great soul, mahātmā. The mahātmā does not divert his attention to anything outside Kṛṣṇa because he knows perfectly well that Kṛṣṇa is the original Supreme Person, the cause of all causes. There is no doubt about it. Such a mahātmā or great soul develops through association with other mahātmās, pure devotees. Pure devotees are not even attracted by Kṛṣṇa's other features, such as the four-armed Mahā-Viṣṇu. They are simply attracted by the two-armed form of Kṛṣṇa. Since they are not attracted to other features of Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of the demigods, they are not concerned with any form of a demigod or of a human being. They only meditate upon Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are always engaged in the unswerving service of the Lord in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is the... What do you think? What is your definition of mahātmā?

Guest (1): Gītā said, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gītā says, but what you say? Recently I went to Wardha, Mahatma Gandhi's āśrama. Nobody is there. And they are worshiping Mahatma's lantern, and Mahatma's cādara. Not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. (chuckles) There is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. And here it is said, bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. This is going on. So read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Learn. Everything is there. Make your life successful. That is our proposal. Come here. We have developed this center in good quarter. Discuss Bhagavad-gītā and try to do what Kṛṣṇa says. Make your life perfect. (Hindi) We are misguided. Misguided... (Hindi) Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā: "This mahātmā; this is God; this is function; this you have to do." Do it. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things anyone can do. A child can do.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They have already studied. They can explain.

Ādi-keśava: And perhaps we can include something that they are saying. Right now they are making one article to show that this description they have of brainwashing has nothing to do with chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that it is not even the same process. We saw one book that the psychiatrist sometimes quotes from, and in the book they had pictures of people at a Christian prayer meeting, and they were falling over and holding snakes, poisonous snakes. And they think that we are doing the same thing. So we're also trying to establish that this has nothing to do with our Kṛṣṇa consciousness or chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Are we... Why this analogy? Are we taking the snake?

Ādi-keśava: They say it is the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Why you do say?

Ādi-keśava: Because they don't know.

Prabhupāda: Ah, then "Why do you say that, which is not the fact? Are we taking snake? So why do you falsely say?"

Ādi-keśava: They say, "Well, you chant and dance."

Prabhupāda: So that does not mean they are taking snake. You are so rascal that you are falsely charging. Everything based on false charges.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No. Why this is going on?

Satsvarūpa: Probably because of this reasoning, that... They use this phrase, that "We have to make Kṛṣṇa consciousness more conventional, and with the shaved heads and pictures of Kṛṣṇa, people won't like it." So they've taken to this description of simple life, vague talk of spiritual life, reincarnation, meditation.

Tripurāri: Seems like a compromise.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People are speaking about our movement now. Many people say to us that "You are selling out, compromising your position." And they...

Prabhupāda: This should be stopped, immediately. Why they are doing that without..., concocting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a great deal of not approval among many of the senior devotees.

Prabhupāda: So, immediately stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were looking through a recent issue of the magazine, the most recent issue, and we were...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is coming out.

Brahmānanda: That is there. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is there. It is fortunate you are... We were all noting that point. They cannot touch that.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is in the middle. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda(?): Future.

Prabhupāda: So in our Back to Godhead these things should be demonstrated, not that imitating that tech position, like this. These things should be... If you have got intelligence, this description what I am giving you, that should be explained. This nonsense should be stopped. That means we are imitating them. Explain this, how, yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61), how this machine is being made by māyā. Then we shall give them brain. So be intelligent and try to give them brain. And if you remain dull-brained like that, then you'll say, "Yes, yes, you are right." You are not right. Every step we shall... "You are not right. You are wrong. You have no brain." That should be our idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very outspoken. Outspoken.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. "You are all rascals. Prepare a machine... This is machine, Bhagavad-gītā. Prepare a machine. Make a female machine and male machine and produce innumerable machine. Then we shall understand that you have got brain." And actually you are seeing. How is that? A male machine and female machine combine together—another machine.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're up against demons. We should not think that these people will become satisfied. They're demons.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not going to be satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Then description is there in the Sixteenth Chapter, exactly of the Western civilization. Read it.

Hari-śauri:

pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca

janā na vidur āsurāḥ

na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro

na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate

(BG 16.7)

"Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done."

Prabhupāda: This is their first qualification. They do not know what is the aim of life. Ask anyone what is the aim of life. They cannot say, like animal. Animal does not know. Eat, sleep, sex. They do not know. This is the demon's first quality. In which way life should be directed, they do not know. They are missing that.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They are these...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Perfect description.

Prabhupāda: Do it carefully, cautiously. They are feeling the weight.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. I can see this Ādi-keśava's a good person to push it.

Prabhupāda: No, you also help. He's also very young.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's only twenty-two. He's been consulting with me whenever we...

Prabhupāda: He is nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He comes from a good family. His father, grandfather's side, is Barclay from Barclay's bank. He's the grandson, grandnephew of Barclay. Good family. Parents are very well known.

Prabhupāda: Rich family.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rich. Wealthier than Dhṛṣṭadyumna's parents.

Prabhupāda: He's also good gentleman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You met...

Prabhupāda: Hm. He came to see me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśava's mother is very big in the field of education. Public speaker and intelligent. His father owns a number of industries.

Prabhupāda: You can bring case against them. Just like fight in same position, that brainwashing. Not brainwashing. Whatever they have said.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: It says, "Eighteen age-old secrets of inner peace and fulfillment." These are the popular themes in America. Everyone is wanting this. Now we're telling people that "This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa...," we are describing it using the language of the modern psychologists, that "This will give you inner fulfillment. It will enable you to handle more stress and the pressures of daily life. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you get a stronger sense of your real identity. You feel more in control of your life." By using scientific descriptions, everyone appreciates it.

Prabhupāda: Recent printing, how many?

Rāmeśvara: This printing was 300,000, and that brought it over one million copies.

Prabhupāda: All together.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Gargamuni: Rangoon is a Communist state, but still, they say, "We must have these books, and we will make arrangement for payment." No one has refused that they will not pay.

Prabhupāda: Through this Communist country, other Communist countries also...

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. They were very impressed by the Russian reviews in Rangoon. They said, "Oh, in Russia also." I said, "Yes, our Guru Mahārāja, he went there in '71 and gave lectures at the University of Moscow." They were highly impressed with that.

Prabhupāda: This is very improved.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Right or left hand, what problem?

Muralīdhara: When they curse someone, is there a certain...

Prabhupāda: No. Right hand is all right.

Rāmeśvara: It's all right either way. Now, this painting shows... At the time of Vyāsadeva living in this cottage on the Sarasvatī River, there's a description that Śukadeva, he was in the womb, and he would not come out and Vyāsadeva went to get Kṛṣṇa. Personally Kṛṣṇa came and ordered Śukadeva to take his birth.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: And they have got the womb area a little effulgent to indicate the presence of Śukadeva being a pure...

Prabhupāda: Overgrown.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: Well, it will be overgrown, but they also want it to be effulgent.

Prabhupāda: Not overgrown. This is all right.

Rāmeśvara: Oh. Then there are many descriptions of Lord Kṛṣṇa in this volume, so they have painted this painting of Lord Kṛṣṇa. There is especially a description describing the beauty of His face and His lotus feet and His whole bodily beauty, carrying the flute.

Prabhupāda: Very nice. It is all right. Now you have become expert, painting Kṛṣṇa so many years.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Very nice. It is all right. Now you have become expert, painting Kṛṣṇa so many years.

Rāmeśvara: 'Cause we feel that there's never a limit how beautiful Kṛṣṇa can be painted.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Yes, unlimited.

Rāmeśvara: Now, also there are many descriptions, or there are several descriptions in this verse, of the Lord's expansion as Paramātmā within the heart of every living entity and also within each atom. Now, a few years ago Bharadvāja drew this picture for Back to Godhead. We were thinking to make a painting similar to this showing that Viṣṇu is within the atom. And this will be used not only in this book, but also we were thinking to use this on the cover of Life Comes From Life.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: We can show these atomic rings?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: Cause the scientists, when they draw pictures of the atom, they show these rings.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Hm.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Paśu-ghna. Paśu-ghna, the animal-killer.

Rāmeśvara: If we increase the number of pictures, the cost of the book to us will be an additional, between five cents and ten cents, but in exchange for that cost increase, more paintings.

Prabhupāda: That is your consideration. But if you are going to add nice pictures, these words can be explained.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Also, because in the Tenth Canto there are so many descriptions of Kṛṣṇa's activities, so Kṛṣṇa has sent more artists.

Prabhupāda: Now, I'll give description of the word, so you can utilize it for...

Rāmeśvara: (aside:) Do you understand?

Rādhā-vallabha: Like there may be description of someone that's fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, has no material desires. You have to figure out a way to illustrate it.

Rāmeśvara: Just like last month you showed me that calendar of how they have illustrated every verse of the Bhagavad-gītā. So they have a way of finding... Artists...

Prabhupāda: They're selling?

Rāmeśvara: That calendar that you showed me? When you were in Bhuvaneśvara you gave me one calendar, and it had illustrations of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Ha, ha, yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm? (break)

Harikeśa:

acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam

akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca

nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ sthāṇur

acalo 'yaṁ sanātanaḥ

"This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same."

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the description of the soul. What is the first one?

Harikeśa: Acchedyaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Aśoṣyaḥ.

Harikeśa: Acchedyaḥ—"unbreakable."

Prabhupāda: Acchedyaḥ, yes. Acchedyo 'yam. Now, chedya means which can be cut by... Just like this is wood. It can be cut by the saw. This can be separated. Then? Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam. Adāhyaḥ. The wood can be burned. So it is denying, that "The soul cannot be cut and it cannot be burned." Then?

Harikeśa: Akledyaḥ.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: No, it is standing and very nice temple.

Prabhupāda: So let us take advantage of it and make a very perfect institution so that people may take advantage. Otherwise... There is a Bengali song, māyār bośe jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Everyone is being washed away by the waves of this material energy. And their attempt to save themselves... That's... Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in light, during the rainy season, so many worms and flies, they come and fall in the fire, phat-phat-phat. They do not know. This is the very description, in the Eleventh Chapter. So we do not condemn material life, but without spiritual understanding, this dog race for material comforts, it may be temporary, very nice, but ultimately it is being carried away by the waves of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Let them study Bhagavad-gītā seriously. Let there be serious student to understand, to explain, and everything will be... There must be sadācāra.

Mr. Rajda: Yes, religious principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). We are opening gurukula in Vṛndāvana. We can open here also. We have got land, so let us cooperate. The things are there. We haven't got to manufacture it. Simply we have to take the program seriously. Then everything will be all right.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anthology of Religions of the World.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So your book is considered an authoritative book on the Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They have given nice description of bhakti-yoga. So if you want to, we can give you some sets of books for reading, and discussing amongst your friends.

Dr. Sharma: Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can select our any number of books you want. Let them read and understand.

Guest (2): He is good at translating also. He could translate our books.

Prabhupāda: If you kindly do that, you can. That will be a great service.

Guest (1): Into Russian he can translate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we can print them.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Perfect article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Patita Pāvana..." And it says also, "...the editors of Back to Godhead magazine, ISKCON Press, Los Angeles, California."

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are four articles. "Part One: A Description of the Holiness of Śrīdhāma Māyāpur."

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: It was taken from Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Taken from Back to Godhead. This is an article from Back to Godhead. Who wrote it? Nitāi?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Nitāi did.

Prabhupāda: Who wrote?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nitāi. This is an article previously published in Back to Godhead, written by Nitāi a couple years ago. "Part Two: A General Description of ISKCON's Spiritual City in Māyāpur. A Short History of ISKCON Māyāpur." It gives a description of their history. "When one of the first American devotees of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, heard in 1970 from the Society's Founder-Ācārya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda..."

Prabhupāda: Everywhere there is founder-ācārya's name, but not a single line...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It requires real scholar.

Patita-pāvana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If they understand.

Patita-pāvana: Yes. Both have received President's Award.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who can understand that description in the Fifth Canto rightly, it is... There is no question of whether he's spiritually advanced or not. It is simply academic qualification.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, that is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It has nothing to do with spiritual understanding.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why not let them come here now immediately.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're here now.

Prabhupāda: So arrange to bring them here.

Patita-pāvana: I will do that. We can arrange for some apartment for them to stay.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We prefer to have the ground.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he can utilize the roof also.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: To get the... Yes. That is another advantage. If it is possible, do. So they can understand the description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Patita-pāvana: They have assured me that they can.

Prabhupāda: Then it will be all right.

Patita-pāvana: And even this Rāmānuja Agnihotram Tattvācārya... I went to the chief of the Raṅganātha Svāmī Temple and made good friends with him. I gave him your Caitanya-caritāmṛta which was the conversation between Gopāla Bhaṭṭa, I'm sorry, Bhaṭṭācārya, Veṅkaṭa Bhaṭṭācārya, and Lord Caitanya. And he is the ancestor of him, in charge of the Raṅganātha. And he told me that this Agnihotram is a little bit touched by Māyāvāda. I said, "I understand. But," I said, "can he do the universe good? Even though you're criticizing him, does he know the universal description?" And he said, "That he knows. Many people have praised him like this in different works."

Prabhupāda: It is a simply academic thing.

Patita-pāvana: Sampat Kumāra Bhaṭṭācārya also has recommended...

Prabhupāda: It has nothing to do with spiritual advancement. So when we plan, people may not think that it is not according to the...

Patita-pāvana: But these men also have the qualification of enthusiasm to serve your project, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is a great kindness. We are trying to do something on behalf of real culture.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is very insignificant thing, personal. And it is said, personal, if you keep long hair, it will look... But it has been made here, it is said that "People will think like that, that he has become more beautiful." The psychology. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. They rejected all other things. Simply they'll think that "If I keep long hair, I'll be very beautiful." This psychological study is there. And five thousand years before, prediction. How much authoritative the book is, just imagine. Is it not fact? Vyāsadeva's authority, try to... How perfectly authorized he is. They're stating psychological effect of people five thousand years ahead. Not only that, there are many descriptions what will be the name two thousand, three thousand years... Generally said, "This name will be like this. This name will be like this. Your son, grandson, great-grandson, what will be their names, this is..." So why shall we not believe just that statement of planetary system? If they are so correct... Planetary system is already there, but they are foretelling what in future, it will happen. That is my conviction. Therefore I do not believe anyone except Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. That is my science. They speculate. I don't believe it. Why shall I...? And in the beginning Vyāsadeva said, kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ: "Take only Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the book of knowledge. Bas. You need not read any other." Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam: (SB 1.1.3) "This is essence of all Vedic knowledge." (pause) There are so many gentlemen here. They want to give their property, house, outside Bombay, to this institution.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So we are presenting this planetarium...

Indian Astronomer: Bhāgavata, yes?

Prabhupāda: From Bhāgavatam.

Indian Astronomer: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: In the Fifth Canto there is description of the planetary system.

Indian Astronomer: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So we want a diagram.

Indian Astronomer: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So kindly help us.

Indian Astronomer: With your Your Holiness permission, he told all these things to me. I use some Bhāgavata śloka before. (quotes Sanskrit ślokas from Bhāgavata, Tenth Canto)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now find out that Fifth Canto. So this planetary system is hanging.

Indian Astronomer: Yes.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

abhupāda: Not life. This planetary system is like that.

Indian Astronomer: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). That is... That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Which chapter it is?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: This is a description of Jambu-dvīpa.

Prabhupāda: There is Jambu-dvīpa and...

Indian Astronomer: Where is this? Pañcama-skandha.

Prabhupāda: Eh? It is not daśama-skandha.

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Jambu-dvīpa.

Indian Astronomer: Jambu-dvīpa.

Prabhupāda: It is...

Indian Astronomer: The pañcama-skandha.

Prabhupāda: Pañcama-skandha, yes.

Indian Astronomer: There we find there about the Priyavrata. Priyavrata's sons, they divided the world...

Prabhupāda: No, persons we are not very much concerned. We are... Immediately we want the diagram how to fix it up so that people can see, "This is the situation." So you make this diagram.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, my order... It is for this purpose I sent him, so you can begin immediately or...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Surabhī has an office with all things ready, drawing board...

Prabhupāda: You can go to his office, can give him instruction how the planetary system is hanging. The polestar, dhruva-tārā, is the center, and it is moving. That at night you can see. It is moving.

Indian Astronomer: In Vedas also description, as (quotes Sanskrit verses).

Prabhupāda: No, what is the first, beginning? You just give him. Read it. The Sanskrit reading.

Indian Astronomer: (reads Sanskrit from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto)

Prabhupāda: Sapta-sindhu... You have to make diagram where the sapta-sindhu are.

Indian Astronomer: Yes. All...

Prabhupāda: No, all...

Indian Astronomer: ...because as we prepare diagram on the basis of pañcama-skandha, Bhāgavata, all must be given there. (continues reading verses from Bhāgavatam in Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: So you can... Why not begin it in my presence?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Begin the drawing now so that Prabhupāda can see it before he leaves.

Indian Astronomer: No, because I am not able to prepare the diagrams and other things. With the help of my friends only I can do. I give the translation to them and all do the work. Simply we can show to them.

Prabhupāda: I have tried to translate it as far as possible, but I am not satisfied.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So how he'll make diagram? He has no idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he doesn't. He never thought about it. No one reads the Bhāgavatam as a scientific book, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's the point. Except for Your Divine Grace, they are thinking it's story, "It is stories."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not believe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. And therefore no one takes it seriously. Modern people don't take it seriously.

Prabhupāda: There was a Gosāi. He was reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So the description of the planetary system there is. He used to say to his audience, "Actually these things are not there. These are imaginary descriptions." He was such a fool. So the whole world has taken like that, "symbolic, imagination."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he was lecturing on Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I think you mentioned that one of your Godbrothers once said to you, "You really believe that there is such a place, Kṛṣṇaloka, Vaikuṇṭhaloka?" He was himself...

Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja did not believe. No... Nobody ever thought of it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are the only representative, the lone representative of religion left on this planet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So what to do? He has wasted so much money. He's not the proper man.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: If you have got the name, so why not reply to each one, the letter...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: ...that "We are intending to make a huge planetarium. If you can help us?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mentioning the Fifth Canto, Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Exactly to the description of Fifth Canto, we want.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How will we get their addresses?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Or I can write to Mr. Chandan(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's one thing we could do. I haven't seen the article, but he must have spoken at some institution or some meeting. We can write a letter to the secretary of that institution and meeting, telling them what we intend to do and to forward to us a list of the people who attended and their addresses. And that way we can... Should... Of course, I can do it, but do you want us to do it or should Surabhī's office do it?

Prabhupāda: Surabhī?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Janeṣu abhijñeṣu. Sādhu means one who is in the knowledge. Otherwise anyone can become a sādhu by changing the dress.

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: A sādhu... The description of sādhu is given in the śāstra, titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ... Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ... (SB 3.25.21).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Suhṛdaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. And before that, there is... Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ. These are the description of sādhu. Sādhu titikṣavaḥ, very tolerant. For preaching work they have to meet so many obstacles, and still, they go on, titikṣavaḥ. Titikṣā is the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Śamo damas titikṣā. So a sādhu... Titikṣavaḥ. He has to meet so many obstacles. Just see this judgment. We have to meet so many obstacles. But we cannot give up. Despite all obstacles, we have to go on. So titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ, suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. A sādhu is not a friend of a particular community, person or religion, no.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (1): Sarva-bhūtānām.

Prabhupāda: "I am sādhu. I am the leader of the, this society. And the animal-killing is going on. I don't care for it." Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. So titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva... These are the qualities. And ultimately, summary, sādhu is spoken by Kṛṣṇa Himself that bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ: (BG 9.30) "One who has no other business than to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is sādhu." "Well, he is a foreigner. He is not brāhmaṇa. He is accustomed to so many habits." Sādhu is always in good habit. But due to past practice, sometimes we may see some discrepancy. You can find out some fault. But Kṛṣṇa says that "Never mind there is some fault. Still, he is sādhu." "Why?" Now bhajate mām ananya-bhāk: "He has taken Me as everything." So sādhu descriptions are there. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇaḥ. A sādhu means ultimately bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. So tīrtha-sthāna, one should try to associate with sādhus. This is the purpose to go to the tīrtha-sthāna. Otherwise, if you simply go to the tīrtha-sthāna and take bath in the Ganges and Yamunā, and if you think, "My business is finished..." Everywhere, all tīrtha-sthāna... In Gayā-actually, begins from Gayā—there is Phalgu River. Then Benares, there is Ganges. Then there is Prayāga. There is also Ganges, Yamunā. Then go to Mathurā, Vṛndāvana. Everywhere there is the sacred river. So if we simply think that going to the holy place and taking bath... In Kali-yuga it is general hobby. Dūre parjakanam(?) tīrtham. In Calcutta there is Ganges, but...

Indian man (1): They will come here.

Prabhupāda: They will come here.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mahāṁśa: And this is a very nice thing he said, Prabhupāda. He said that "We want to improve things in the countryside to an extent that people from the cities start running to the villages."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I want. I... Everywhere I go and say, how these rascals...? So much land is lying, and these rascals are not developing. And they are making... What is that? Coal stone. Coal. They are interested with these bricks and stones, not green vegetables. Such a rascal government. Give them facility. We know how to do it. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Let them engage in kīrtana. There will be more water for gardening, and it will be moist, and then produce fodder for the animals and food for you. And animal gives you milk. That is Vṛndāvana life. And they are absorbed in this so-called opulence. Kṛṣṇa has taken birth. They are bringing so many nice, pleasant foodstuff, very well-dressed and ornamented. These are description. In the morning we were reading. How they were happy, the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana with Kṛṣṇa and living and cows. That I want to introduce. At any cost do it and... Don't bother about big, big buildings. It is not required. Useless waste of time. Produce. Make the whole field green. See that. Then whole economic question solved. Then you eat sumptuous. Eat sumptuously. The animal is happy. The animal even does not give milk; let them eat and pass stool and urine. That is welcome. After all, eating, they will pass stool. So that is beneficial, not that simple milk is beneficial. Even the stool is beneficial. Therefore I am asking so much here and..., "Farm, farm, farm, farm..." That is not my program-Kṛṣṇa's program. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce greenness everywhere, everywhere. Vṛndāvana. It is not this motorcar civilization. If it has taken in his brain, then it is to be understood that he can do this plan. He'll be able. Somebody said that he is eager to see me.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Little cold water. And our mission is to deliver them by giving knowledge. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Our mission is not to keep men in darkness. Otherwise "Let them go to hell, śūnyavādi. We don't..." No. They should not remain in that way. They should come to the real light. This is our policy. (pause)

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja (Bengali).

Harikeśa: When we finish this description, our understanding of this description of the universe, and present it to the scientists and to the world, people will become astounded.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) (loud fan noise) What is that jīva-bhūta? They are living entities. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bā... Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Without that these jīva-bhūta, these material elements are developed? Where is that? Find out this verse.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Gītā?

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Thousand yojanas.

Bhakti-prema: ...square. Thirty-four thousand yojanas in..., in this. This is Kimpuruṣa-varṣa. That is between Himalaya and Hemakūṭa mountain. And again Hari-varṣa is between Hemakūṭa Mountain and Niṣadha Mountain. And this Ramyaka...

Prabhupāda: Where is geographical description of this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't even know they exist.

Prabhupāda: Little description of the Himalayas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's all.

Prabhupāda: That is also not sufficient. In Europe, when we go over the mountain, huge mountainous tract, who knows about it? We are passing just like on a roof, aeroplane. You have seen? Huge. They have no information of what is there. And Switzerland...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Switzerland.

Prabhupāda: I have seen mountain goat. Where it has gone, nobody knows. Still.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This...

Bhakti-prema: From the intelligence...

Yaśodānandana: This knowledge will actually destroy their misconceptions, 'cause most people think that previously, to five thousand years ago, people used to be barbarians. But if they were barbarians and they knew the whole description of the universe, they must have been very advanced.

Bhakti-prema: This is Lokāloka Mountain. We're drawing that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're simply following your Bhāgavatam description, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Not that... Iti susru... (break)

Bhakti-prema: Except this Kimpuruṣa-varṣa and other varṣas in the mountain area, these are part of subtle world. So how we will mention it?

Prabhupāda: Mention by picture.

Bhakti-prema: So how we will expose it before scientists?

Prabhupāda: We do not require to satisfy the scientists. We have to describe according to our book. That's all. If they can understand, let them understand. Otherwise... It is not our business to satisfy the so-called scientists. We are giving the real description. (break) That Sokimala.(?) (break) (indistinct)

Upendra: Not like that, no. There have been some clouds.

Prabhupāda: Something in the sea turns right, and the whole thing becomes (indistinct). (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...the original Laṅkā. Ceylon, of course, is there, but it is not Laṅkā.

Prabhupāda: Ceylon is different.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ghanaśyāma. About his activities?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want me to read it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, it is very interesting, how they are fighting against odds to introduce our movement. There is a written description.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's one Negro devotee of Prabhupāda. They're distributing books in communist countries. So he has written a report how they are fighting against odds.

Surendra Kumar: Oh, yes, I... Quite right.

Dr. Kumar: Ghanaśyāma came here last year.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That Negro boy.

Surendra Kumar: I told him that "These people will form the hard core, and that, our organization will be organized and then..." He also said that so many temples are dying out.

Prabhupāda: It will develop. (Hindi conversation) Thakur has become a source of income.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes I become surprised how I have written this. Although I am the writer, still sometimes I am surprised how these things have come. Such vivid description. Where is such literature throughout the whole world? It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Every line is perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The purports are as nice as the ślokas.

Prabhupāda: It is explained in this way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's 7:30 now. (break)

Prabhupāda: I have not done it, but I have seen it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You learned everything by seeing. You said that you learned how to cook by watching your mother.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes I used to cook.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, for your family?

Prabhupāda: Our family men. I asked my mother, "I'll do this, that." They'll allow, "All right."

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the village.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You'll find description in Bhāgavata. They were coming to congratulate Kṛṣṇa—so nice dress, so nice ornament, so nice foodstuff made of ghee, grains in our...

Śatadhanya: Sometimes the rich Marwari ladies, when they come to Māyāpur, once in a while they give some ornament to the Deity. They'll give one ring or one bracelet, gold.

Prabhupāda: That was always. They would offer some ornament to the Deity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there's the example...

Prabhupāda: That Sākṣī-Gopāla. The queen wanted to give her nose pearl. Very happy spiritual society.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you are developing that all over the world, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I have thought it over, over. It was very, very nice. What is this nonsense society? Tin car?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they're becoming worse...

Prabhupāda: And rubber tire, that's all.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. What are those... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...is flying in an airplane from Los Angeles to India via Hawaii, but in the picture that we have drawn, there is no way you can go from Los Angeles to India via Hawaii. If you go this direction, from Los Angeles, say, this way, you don't come to India. India's over here according to our description. Yet when they take a flight, they say, "We go around the earth." But we say, "You cannot go around the earth." So far, our understanding... So far—unless we have not completely understood yet—it is like a lotus, Jambūdvīpa, and the whole Bhū-maṇḍala is like a lotus. So how do... You cannot fly around Bhāratavarṣa, or earth. Yet every day the whole science of aeronautics, of flying, is based upon the fact that they're flying around different places of the earth. And everyone who sees this, that, our description, is going to ask this question. It's a very important question to answer, and Bhakti-prema has not yet answered it. None of us can. We are avoiding it at this point until we get further information. There must be an answer, but we have not yet been able to give the answer. I have absolute faith in these, the Vedic description. I am completely convin... I just know that I have not understood perfectly yet. Therefore the answer's not apparent. But it's definitely a question that they will raise. (break)

Prabhupāda: Give him this letter with immigration card.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has sent it to us.

Prabhupāda: No, he has given me personally.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think I follow. Mr. Bal Subhramanya from Indian Overseas Bank?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they are going to the moon. (devotees laugh) I... So far I remember, the moon is also like the sun, that it is fire blazing, but it is surrounded by a cool atmosphere. Therefore it is soothing. I think there is such description.

Bhakti-prema: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says the moon is also (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How far do they, the scientists, say the moon is from the earth? How long? I have a book which says it, and I'm bringing this book. It's very... You'll see it here.

Bhakti-prema: Twenty-four lakhs miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty-four lakhs miles, the scientists say?

Bhakti-prema: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do the scientists say? How...?

Prabhupāda: Two lakhs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two lakhs miles, 250,000 miles. So that means about, in yojanas, very little, about 25-, 30,000 yojanas.

Yaśodā-nandana: They say the sun is 93,000,000 away.

Bhakti-prema: I think the difference of the (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have froglike brains.

Prabhupāda: That, the microscope... What is called? Telescope.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So how they are writing of millions of years ago?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all according to their mythology.

Prabhupāda: No, they are suggesting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And, of course, they say that there were no humans around, just dust and water and earth. There were no brains at that time.

Prabhupāda: Only brains are developed now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, especially now, this century. Before this, everybody was unintelligent, and now man's brain is developing to a higher and higher degree, and he can finally understand what is what. I don't think that... Your descriptions, especially this planetarium, will at first meet with a lot of heavy reaction. It is not going to be embraced immediately very favorably. It means that everyone who calls himself a Ph.D. is a fool, that students will laugh at their teachers, if what we say is correct. There will be chaos in educational circles. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Prabhupāda: All right.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is you are unable to, but the fact is that you are conditioned. You cannot go beyond that conditioned

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's accepted.

Prabhupāda: So we are also conditioned. But as far as possible we take description from Bhāgavata, try to. That is our... Suppose here is India, here is Los Angeles. You start from India, Los Angeles..., or India, you'll come to Los Angeles. And again return to India. Similarly you start from this again going.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's possible if you can fly this way, underneath.

Prabhupāda: But where is the underneath?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See Prabhupāda, we weren't asking that issue. That's not the question we were asking.

Prabhupāda: What is that issue?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, you've explained, if it's a lotus petal, then you can fly around it. That's all right. Then the answer is there. But if there's no lotus petal and it's simply flat, then it's a problem. That a problem.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't say flat.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why if one is settled up that he's a rascal, we should not hear anything. And why not? He has not gone to the moon. They are insisting, "Yes, we have gone," by false propaganda. Why the one who makes false propaganda and one who says nonsense, we have to believe? Immediately, whatever he says, reject. There's no argument. You have proved yourself rascal so we don't accept any statement. What do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I'm just trying to think of the description of Jambūdvīpa.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you say. But be aware you are rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we have the practical task of...

Prabhupāda: No test.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No-task.

Prabhupāda: No test. Mother says here is your father. That's all. Finish. You cannot test. Then you are rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not test. I said...

Prabhupāda: No, these things cannot be tested.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Mother says, "Here is your father." That's all. Finish. No test. No question. That is foolishness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was using the word "task." That to... I'll have to bring in Bhakti-prema Swami. Maybe he can speak better. I'm not able to explain. But according to the description in the Bhāgavatam, everything that we've read, it is not petals. So let's... I don't know. On one hand you are asking us to follow the...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, there is a point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ. No faith. Faithless. We have challenged, by chemical combination make a small egg, sparrow's egg, and produce.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't do anything.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of your experiment? And still they are saying. This one point will kill them. Why do they not take this challenge? Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're rascals. There's no other answer. Only a rascal will go on maintaining that we can create life and they never have.

Prabhupāda: And they are getting Nobel Prize. Just see. Such rascals. And we say on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam. This is inferior and that is superior. So how you can make superior with inferior ingredients?

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But nobody has seen that ocean. And nobody can believe that ocean can be churned. Would you believe it? Because it is. And the Vāsuki was taken as rope.

Bhakti-prema: And this Mandara mountain, fifty thousand miles high, was taken there, carried by.

Prabhupāda: And it was born by tortoise incarnation.

Bhakti-prema: This is combined with description.

Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. What is beyond your conception, don't try to. So that is Vedic civilization. They were satisfied with information received from the Vedas.

Bhakti-prema: The first and last thing we have to prove logically that this is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Logically you cannot. Acintya. Logic comes when it is conceivable; but it is inconceivable. Where is your logic?

Bhakti-prema: But first to prove them right understanding we have to bring them.

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Acintya.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Uttarāyaṇa, dakṣiṇāyana. This Sumeru Mountain... So six months, northern side; six months, southern side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some things are quite clear. Then there's a description, though, that there's an axle, it's described, a tie made of wind going from the chariot to Dhruvaloka. So things like that we want to get a..., further information on. Just so that it can be somehow demonstrated. Our... To understand these things for the purpose of making an exhibit requires a very clear picture. So that's the only reason we're looking to other books. But only bona fide books. The ācāryas' commentaries, like that. And then it has to agree with the Bhāgavatam. If in any way there's a discrepancy, we choose the Bhāgavatam as the authority.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, the sun is not fixed up.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, not at all. It's moving. As a matter of fact, it describes sometimes it moves in one way with Meru at its right side, and then sometimes it moves the other way with Meru at its left side.

Prabhupāda: That is dakṣiṇāyana-mārga, dakṣiṇāyanam, uttarāyaṇa.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very wretched place. I told some television reporter. "Here is hell."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you landed there you said that?

Prabhupāda: No. There was television girl. "What is the description of hell?" "Now, here is, London."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew! That must not have been a very popular statement.

Prabhupāda: No, he stopped immediately. Simply outwardly decorated, and it is hell. I told him. Actually that is, everywhere. No... Only cloud and that mist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that the sun never sets in the British Empire.

Prabhupāda: But is always sets in London.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It never rose.

Prabhupāda: Setting of sunshine is monopolized by London.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But is always sets in London.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It never rose.

Prabhupāda: Setting of sunshine is monopolized by London.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a description in the Bhāgavatam about the setting of the sun. It's described that when the day..., that the water is darker by day. The ocean water is darker by day than by night. And the reason given is that the daytime, the daylight goes into the ocean at night. The ocean absorbs the light of the day, and therefore when you look at the water at night, it's lighter than it is during the day. That's a fact. The Bhāgavatam explains why, that there's some power within the ocean to attract the daytime. And in the daytime, the nighttime goes...

Prabhupāda: It is absorbed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the opposite is true, in the daytime the night goes into the water, so it appears a very dark color. This is... Every explanation is given in the Bhāgavatam, and it's all in contradiction to the so-called scientists. They say that the reason we experience day and night is that the earth is rotating on its axis and at the same time circumambulating the sun.

Prabhupāda: Double. Double motion.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So they say, therefore, when you're on this side and the sun is here, you won't see, but when it turns around, then you'll see the sun. But the Bhāgavatam does not agree with that description. The Bhāgavatam says that you don't see the sun because it's blocked by the Meru. The sun is moving, and Meru is blocking. And they never even heard of Meru. What is their knowledge? Such a big mountain and they don't even know about it. That means they never left the earth's sphere. They never went more than a few hundred miles in the air, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's all lies.

Prabhupāda: All. That I am speaking from the very beginning. Now it is proved. They are also saying.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, about the moon hoax.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They could not answer this, "Why Sunday first, Monday?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was with you when that reporter came in Los Angeles. Prabhupāda said, "Then answer to this one question, 'Why all over the world, Sunday comes before Monday?' "

Prabhupāda: They could not answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they thought that that was a childish... They thought that was very childish to say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, first of all answer this child. Then become scientist. So there is no professor.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Government published this. The Statesman, therefore, has not given any description.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't notice. Here's a little news clipping. It's probably the same. You probably have seen this already. This is from Indian Express. "Why Krishna Mandir Men Fired Salvo." By a... "An attack on the devotees and destruction of the premises of ISKCON Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir, West Bengal, led to the shooting incident, according to Mr. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Dāsa, Secretary, Bombay center of the organization. Mr. Dāsa, in his statement issued on Monday, said the news from their sources in Bengal stated that on July 8th about fifty miscreants were found encroaching on our agricultural field and stealing our crops. When a devotee requested them to stop, they became angry and beat him up, fracturing his skull. Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants..." Notice how they're not going to use "Muslims." They say "miscreants." They don't say "Muslims." Probably the paper wants to avoid. This is a hot issue. No one wants to write "Hindu-Muslim." "Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants armed with sticks and spears suddenly appeared from behind the bushes and all of them entered the temple area. Mr. Dāsa said the miscreants beat several more devotees, including the Gurukula school headmaster, whose both hands and skull were broken. They also stripped naked a female disciple. They cut off electrical connections, telephone lines and water pipes. The police did not come for two hours, and meanwhile the group destroyed the gate, broke windows and stole two bulls. According to ISKCON Secretary, as a final resort, one ran for a gun, appropriately licensed and registered with the government, and fired a shot in the air. As the group persisted, he fired again into the ground which injured eleven of the miscreants. All of those injured have been discharged from the hospital." They're not injured seriously at all. "Mr. Dāsa said the police advised the devotees to go to the Krishnanagar police station to report the incident, and when they did go there they were arrested. Two devotees in critical condition were also detained in the jail hospital. Asked why our men have been kept in jail, the police replied, 'As a precaution.' "

Prabhupāda: This report is already there.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Pañca-draviḍa: Shall we continue reading, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañca-draviḍa: This is the chapter "Description of the Rāsa Dance." (break)

Prabhupāda: It will be bhavauṣadhi. So there is no other... I shall ask, whenever I require it, fruit juice. That is my food, and this kīrtana is my medicine. And parikrama. Settle up this.

Śatadhanya: Fruit juice, kīrtana, and parikrama.

Prabhupāda: Believe in Kṛṣṇa. Hm. I am hearing kīrtana how very nice here. It is stated in the śāstra, nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano... (SB 10.1.4). This is the medicine, panacea for material disease. So kindly let me hear kīrtana as far as possible, long as I live. Eh? That is all right?

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. Yes, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: I'm thirsty. Fruit juice?

Śatadhanya: Would you like some fruit juice now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the key note. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science; on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme by discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of Biochemistry of the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There was intricate features of life, ranging from the structures of molecules and living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics cannot account for these phenomena, and life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy. Mr. Cohen said that the proof of Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed, one into another, through many small changes or mutations. 'Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. 'In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supporting the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the present of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science.' All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life, and they also corroborate the systemic description of the nature of life given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Prabhupāda: Hm. A good article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think they gave a very full coverage.

Prabhupāda: And very scientifically presented. And Bhaktivedanta Institute is advertised.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But he quotes from the Ramakrishna.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In his book that he wrote, Dr. Kapoor quoted the great authority Ramakrishna. (laughter)

Jayādvaita: "The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957, but his challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' At a three-day international conference on life comes from life at Vṛndāvana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the keynote. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Sing, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from the USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of a materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme of a discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermo-dynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of biochemistry at the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There were intricate features of life ranging from the structure of molecules in living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics 'cannot account for these phenomena,' and 'life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy.' Mr. Cohen said that 'Proof of the Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed one into another through many small changes, mutations. Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supported the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the presence of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science. All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life and they also corroborate the systematic description of the nature of life given in Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Prabhupāda: How do you like article?

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is called? Front party.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of party?

Prabhupāda: Front party.

Lokanātha: Front party, advance party, yes.

Prabhupāda: They'll give us description of the land, and before our going, they'll make a camp. Small, big, that doesn't matter. And in the morning, the former camp broken, and go to the next camp with kīrtana. In the meantime the other camp is ready to receive you. Then the next camp, after taking prasādam, they'll go to the next camp.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you follow this, Lokanātha? Do you have a question to ask?

Lokanātha: So there is a smaller group going in advance, and bigger group with you stays back.

Prabhupāda: Yes.