Cow dung is the stool of an animal. But Vedas says, "It is pure." The Vedas, in one place, says that "Stool of an animal is impure." We accept it. As soon as we touch stool, even my own stool. I have to take bath immediately to purify myself. But the Vedas says that the stool of cow is pure. We take it to the Deity room and smear it. This is Vedic followers. No interpretation. When it is stated in the Vedas, it is true, fact, perfect, without any defect. That is called Vedic knowledge. Not that interpreting to my convenience, I am, I become a Vedantist. No. That is not. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is preaching that you accept what Kṛṣṇa says. Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You have manufactured so many things for the peace and prosperity of the people. But you have failed. Take Kṛṣṇa's word and you'll be happy.
Defect (Lectures, Other)
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
So this is the defect. The atheist class of men, they also see God. One, everyone can see God, provided he has got eyes to see. Actually, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Those who are yogis, bhakta-yogis, because they are in love with God, Kṛṣṇa, they are seeing every moment within their heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Anyone you love, you see always within your heart. Similarly, if you have love for God, Kṛṣṇa, then you can see Kṛṣṇa always. That is called yoga system. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Yoginaḥ, those who are yogis, under meditation, they see the Supreme Personality of Godhead within the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. So there are many evidences in the śāstras.
Our philosophy is that as there are varieties in this material world, there are varieties in the spiritual world. That varieties. Just like the sky. In the sky, there are varieties. There are different kinds of planets, floating in the sky. Ordinarily seeing, in daytime, we see the sky is vacant. How it is vacant? It is not vacant. It is the defect of my eyes that I cannot see the varieties. The vari... At night we can see the varieties. There are so many planets, so many stars. And each of them full of varieties. Just like this planet. It is, we learn from the śāstra. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudādhi bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). There are innumerable universes. This universe is one only. And each and every universe, there are millions of planets. And each of them has got special significance. Just like this Moon planet, the Sun planet, this Earth planet, each one has got significance. Here, the bodies are earthly. In the Sun planet, the bodies are fire. Fiery. Similarly in the Moon planet, the bodies are different. Each and every planet.
Big, big professors, educationists, they're also in this opinion. I have traveled all over the world. One Russian professor said, "Swamijī, after this life, there is no... Everything is finished." But that's not the fact. That is the defect of modern education. There is life. There is life. Otherwise why there are so many varieties of life? We should consider that.
So bhakti, bhakti means to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). To understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, that is bhakti. Or by bhakti, by devotional service, you can understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa cannot be understand, understood by karma, jñāna, yoga. Partially, they can understand, but not fully. Karma, jñāna... Therefore Kṛṣṇa especially mentions, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Na karmaṇā na jñānena na yogena. Nāhaṁ tiṣṭhāmi vaikuṇṭhe yoginaṁ hṛdayeṣu. Yoga process or jñāna process can elevate.
So that is called bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Favorably. Kṛṣṇa says that "You become always thinking of Me." Man-manā. So you think of Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. That is ānukūla. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. Kṛṣṇa says, and we carry out the order, just like Arjuna did. Kṛṣṇa said that "You kill. I want. The other party must be killed." He, first of all, he hesitated: "How can I kill my grandfather and nephews, my brothers, the other side? No, I cannot," when he was bodily conscious. But when he understood Kṛṣṇa's Bhagavad-gītā, he said, kariṣye vacanam: "Yes, I shall do it." That is ānukūla. That is ānukūla. In the beginning, he was becoming very good gentlemen, nonviolent, but Kṛṣṇa chastised him:
- kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ
- viṣame samupasthitam
- anārya-juṣṭam asvargyam
- akīrti-karam (arjuna)
- (BG 2.2)
"Oh, you are proposing something which is the action of the anārya, not of the Aryans. So give up this klaibhyam, this deficiency, defect or..." What is called?
Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa: sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "I accept whatever You say in toto, without any distinction." That is acceptance of Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. That is the way of understanding Vedas. You cannot judge the conclusion of the Vedas. You have to accept as it is. Because we are conditioned. We have got so many defects—we are illusioned, we commit mistake, our senses are imperfect... So many defects. Bhrama-pramāda-vipralipsā-kara-ṇāpāṭava, we want to cheat others. So therefore we cannot give perfect knowledge. We have to receive knowledge from the perfect. And who is better perfect than Kṛṣṇa? Therefore whatever Kṛṣṇa says, whatever Kṛṣṇa does, that is all good. There is nothing criticizing. You cannot criticize Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. You cannot say, "Why Kṛṣṇa took part in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra?" Yes, He had business to do it.
A prakṛta-bhakta cannot understand how another bhakta is transcendental. A prakṛta-bhakta cannot understand that Vṛndāvana is always transcendental. Therefore Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has discussed this point in his Tattva-sandarbha, that we cannot accept any manufactured ideas. Because everyone is defective by the four defects of material life, we have to accept the version of Vedas, Purāṇas. He has tried to establish Purāṇas as Vedic supplementary. Others, they reject Purāṇas out of the Vedas. But Jīva Gosvāmī established. All the Gosvāmīs. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī has given, śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pāñcarātriki-vidhiṁ vinā, aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyaiva kalpate (Brs. 1.2.101). It is utpātā, disturbance. If you do not follow the principles of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, pāñcarātriki-vidhi... Just like we were discussing this point, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). This is pāñcarātriki-vidhi. So if we do not follow these principles... Without following these principles, the so-called devotional service, Hari-bhakti, utpātā, simply disturbance, simply a disturbance.
So the best knowledge, He's giving, Kṛṣṇa Himself: Bhagavad-gītā. He's coming personally to give knowledge. But we are so unfortunate, we are not accepting the knowledge given by Kṛṣṇa. We are hankering after some other knowledge given by some defective human being. A human being cannot give us any perfect knowledge. Therefore all the scientists' statements, all the philosophers' statements, they are simply theories; they are not fact. Because the knowledge is not perfect. Perfect knowledge can be had from one who is not defective. Defective means generally a conditioned soul has four defects: he commits mistake, he is illusioned, he has got a cheating propensity, and his senses are imperfect.
The senses, we are acquiring knowledge through our senses, and if our senses are imperfect, how we can acquire perfect knowledge? Just like we are trying to see the planetary system through microscope or binocular, telescope, but the telescope machine is manufactured by a person who is, whose senses are defective. So through the telescope, how you can have perfect knowledge? Therefore one astronomer is placing some theory. After some years, that is made null and void; another theory is presented. Because everyone's knowledge is imperfect. So we cannot expect perfect knowledge from the imperfect person. So our process of knowledge is different.
Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. The more you hear Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the more your heart becomes cleansed. These are the statements given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There cannot be any defect. My statement may be defective, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement cannot be defective, because He is in the transcendental platform. He is transcendence Himself. Kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne. Kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmine. He's Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He has appeared in the form of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. Therefore, whatever He says, that is fact. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. The more we hear the vibration, the transcendental vibration, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, without any offense... Even with, mixed with offense.
Dabira Khāsa. Sākara Mallika. But Caitanya, by association of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they became Gosvāmī. Sanātana Gosvāmī... Ei chaya gosāi yāra tāra mui dāsa, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says. That it is not to be considered, "Oh, these people..." This is the defect. So many people converted to Muslim, and we did not take care. Therefore the whole country is spoiled. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ.
So we should take care of everyone. That is the verdict of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, verdict of Kṛṣṇa. Now we are doing that in our Māyāpur. All the Muhammadans and Hindus, they are taking prasādam together. This has been a unique thing. People are very much appreciating. But some of them, some envious persons are there. They are taking it otherwise. Why? In Jagannātha Purī, still the regulation is that anyone can come and take together jagannātha-prasādam.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
These things are there, already stated, but the so-called scholars and politicians, they misinterpret in a different way and mislead the people. That is going on. Therefore, in spite of Bhagavad-gītā being read all over the world for the last two hundred years, not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. This is the defect. So let us try to understand Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and as we have repeatedly said, that "Through Caitanya Mahāprabhu you understand Kṛṣṇa and spread this cult all over the world." People are suffering for want of knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. So this movement especially meant to establish the cult of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The cult of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is that you become, every one of you, you become a guru. How to become guru? Now, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Simply that qualification is sufficient. Don't adulterate the 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. You simply present what Kṛṣṇa says as it is. Then every one of you will become a guru.
Why one should move? Unless one knows the destination, the goal of life, why one should move forward? So at the present moment they are moving, but they do not know which side they should move. That is the defect of this age, Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayaḥ, sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ. Because they are moving, but not very rapidly... The real purpose of movement is svārtha-gatim, Viṣṇu. That they do not know. They do not know. The materialistic world, at the present moment, that they do not know that where the movement should terminate, where is the destination. That they do not know. Na te svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum, na te viduḥ. Na te. Not only in this age, that is the state of material life. Those who are passing in materialistic way of life, they are thinking that sense gratification is the ultimate goal of life, indriya-prītaye.
And one scholar came to Navadvīpa to defeat the paṇḍitas, the learned scholars of Navadvīpa, but he was defeated by a young boy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Nimāi Paṇḍita was at that time only sixteen years old. But He defeated only in composition, Sanskrit composition. The Sanskrit composition, there is rules and regulations. So you know the story. He pointed out many defects in the verses composed by the Keśava Kashmiri. So he was defeated.
So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a great scholar. There is no doubt of it. But in spite of His becoming a great scholar, He is presenting Himself as a great fool. He says, "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a great..." Even one is very great scholar, he has to abide by the decision of his spiritual master.
Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā about Himself, kṛṣṇa-tattva, about..., the truth about Kṛṣṇa we can understand from Bhagavad-gītā with our intelligence. Just like Kṛṣṇa describes that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Now you study this one line that Kṛṣṇa says, "There is nobody greater than Me." Now you study Kṛṣṇa's life, Compare with anyone and you'll find, "Yes. Nobody is greater or equal to Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa.
So at the present moment the defect is that people are not very serious to understand of Kṛṣṇa, because in this age, as it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about the people of this age,
- prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ (sabhya)
- kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ
- mandāḥ sumanda-matayo
- manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ
- (SB 1.1.10)
Prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ. People are living not as they used to live formerly. In this age, Kali-yuga, the maximum years one can live: hundred years in this Kali-yuga. Hundred years. In the Dvāpara-yuga it was one thousand years. In the Tretā-yuga it was ten thousand years.
Actually, he was... No. Actually he was so. A devotee does not say anything falsely, unless he feels, he feels himself like that. Why does he feel? He was educated. He belonged to the brāhmaṇa, aristocratic family. His association was all nawabs and zamindars, aristocratic family, and still, he says like this. Why? What is the defect, that he felt like that? Now he is expressing. Āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: "I do not know what is actually beneficial to me. I am thinking that 'If I am posted in a service like this and if I have got some aristocratic association, I have got some arrangement for sense gratification...' That is materialism. So I have passed my, wasted my time in that way. But actually I do not know what is beneficial to me." So grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni.
There are troubles, and you try to save yourself, and survival of the fittest. But nobody is fit, nobody survives. Nobody wants death, but we are talking of survival. Who can escape death? There is no possibility. So there are so many slogans, but actually there is no remedy. There is remedy, but we do not know. That is the defect of modern civilization. There is remedy. Otherwise why we are talking this śāstra? Why Sanātana Gosvāmī is putting this question? Just to get the solution from the spiritual master. Otherwise there was no need of putting these questions, that "What is my position? Why these threefold miseries always give me trouble? Why I die? Why I become old? Why I become diseased? Why I have to take birth?" They are simply struggle for existence, that here is a child, and the child-bearing is very troublesome, and if I give birth to a child... The mother is killing. This is going on. But that means she is implicating herself again in another way of life. This is going on.
And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to cure them by this treatment. So if anyone accepts this treatment, then he can make progress very quickly. Just like any madman, if he is under proper treatment, there is hope of his being cured. But the modern education is that to keep him madman. That is the defect of modern civilization. Everyone is madman within this material world, and the modern education is to keep him madman. Therefore they cannot understand our philosophy. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy is very bona fide and most essential philosophy. Madman cannot understand, but that does not mean the process of treatment should be stopped. No. It must go on. It cannot be stopped.
Our tendency is also... Therefore the capitalists and the laborer class are there. Actually, we do not want to work hard. That is our tendency. But we want more profit for sense gratification. Therefore we utilize other's service, who will work for me, and I shall take the profit. This is the defect of modern civilization. Actually, my tendency is... Just like when a man gets some money, he does not work very much. He takes some profit, either keeping in the bank some balance, and lives in a comfortable place. That is the tendency. Because we are spiritual entities, our natural tendency is to enjoy life. Spiritual entities means by nature, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12); by nature, they want to enjoy life. Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. That is the spiritual nature.
"They think that I am also ordinary man." Therefore there is controversy, "Why I shall worship Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa cannot... The Supreme Lord cannot come in this way, just like ordinary man, and making friendship with Arjuna and driving his chariot, or dancing with the gopīs." They cannot conceive. They cannot accommodate within their tiny brain that Kṛṣṇa is so powerful. He's so... We say that Kṛṣṇa, God is all-powerful, God is all omnipotent, but when God shows actually that He's omnipotent, all-powerful, they do not believe. That is their defect. But the manifestation which Kṛṣṇa showed when He was actually present, He's the Supreme Lord.
So one who is dazzled by this glaring effulgence of the rays of Kṛṣṇa, they can realize the Supreme Lord or the Supreme Absolute Truth as impersonal. Sūrya yena carma-cakṣe jyotirmaya bhāse. Carma-cakṣe, with our present eyes, defective... All our senses are defective. We are very much proud of our eyes. I want to see personally. But we do not know that with these eyes or any sense, they are all defective. They are not perfect. Just like in the glare of the sunshine, oh, we see nothing. We see sometimes darkness. So we cannot believe these eyes or senses. We have to take information of perfect knowledge from the authorities. That is the Vedic way. So those who want to see God or the Supreme Absolute Truth by the agency of their imperfect senses, they say that God is impersonal. They're imperfect. That is a realization of the imperfect senses. Perfectly, the perfectly vision, perfect vision of the Supreme Lord is a person.
No. It is produced by the kriyā-śakti, by the active potency of God, kriyā-śakti. Jñāna-śakti: and there is such perfect knowledge that nobody can see any defect. You see a butterfly, how it is nicely painted. You just see duplicate in both the wings. Just like an artist paint nicely, it is painted. So we think it is coming out of nothing. This is our foolishness. Here is, that it is coming out of the jñāna-śakti. But His jñāna is so wide that simply by His desire, simply by His will, it can be executed. These are the things to be studied. Because we cannot see something before our eyes, that does not mean there is no existence. There is existence, but we do not know how one is working, how one is working. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā.
No man can kill him (me). No demigod can kill me. No animal can kill me. Then where is the killing? Everything finished." But God is so cunning that He assumed neither man nor animal, and no weapons. He killed him with the nails. He never expected that "I will be killed by the nails." This is the definition by negation, defective definition. In argument, if you define negatively, "This is not this. This is not this. This is not this," then something will come that will nullify all your arguments. So he protected himself in all negative ways: "This will not. This will not. This will not. This will not." Something came which was not in his power. So this Nṛsiṁhāvatāra.
Then Vāmanāvatāra. Vāmanāvatāra, I have already mentioned, that He became a dwarf brāhmaṇa boy and took all the possession that Mahārāja Bali.
So the Paṇḍita, Kāśmīrī Paṇḍita, became surprised. The Kāśmīrī Paṇḍita became surprised: "How is that? This boy understood? He was a student of grammar, and He is pointing out literary defects?" Oh, he became very much, much surprised. Then he admitted. He was learned scholar. He admitted his fault and he said, "How is that? I have heard that You are student of grammar, and You are pointing out defects in literary construction?" "No. Yes. Yes, sir. I am a student of grammar. But I have heard it from great scholars like you. Of course, I do not know, but I have heard it." He very submissively replied that "I am not scholar, but I have heard it from scholars that this is the technique (?)." He could understand that "He is a very clever student." And there were many others. He pointed out defects.
He thought in the beginning, "Oh, He is asking to compose some poetries. I shall show Him how can I compose poetry, hundreds." He did not care so much that He will point out so many defects in them. But when he saw it, he became sorry. And then the students, Lord Caitanya's students, as it is usual, they began to laugh. Caitanya Mahāprabhu at once told them, "Don't laugh in that way." So this Keśava Kāśmīrī went to his home, and he was a devotee of Goddess Sarasvatī. He prayed that "Mother, I was never defeated in such a way. What offense I have made unto your lotus feet that I am defeated before a boy?" So then Goddess Sarasvatī presented herself in dream and informed that "This boy is not ordinary boy. You are fortunate that you are defeated before Him. Best thing will be that you go and surrender unto Him, and you'll be profit."
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
They are also born in this country. Have they not right to live? Oh, you know in argument, in logic, you will accept, "Yes." But because we do not love Kṛṣṇa, therefore there is partiality, that one section of the living entities should be loved, and the another section of the living entities should be sent to the slaughterhouse. Why this defect? This defect is due to your lack of loving affairs with Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you try to love Kṛṣṇa, then you will see, "Oh, the cows are my brothers, oh, the black people are my brothers, the white people are my brothers, the ants are my brothers, the dogs are my brothers, the trees are my brother, everyone my brother." That is universal brotherhood. If you simply talk of universal brotherhood, and you do not love Kṛṣṇa, hah, then it is useless. (laughter) It is useless. Therefore, actually it is happening. They are proclaiming peace and prosperity, and they are fighting in the United Nations. But where is the peace? Then where is the prosperity? Because lacking love of Kṛṣṇa.
Oh, what nonsense society it is." He analyzed the whole population—boys, youths, old men—and he saw nobody is, no rascal is interested with Brahman. So that is the position. But it is meant for Brahma-jijñāsā. This is the defect of material civilization. The human form of life is being spoiled, simply spoiled. And they are... Māyā is dictating, "Oh, you are making so much advancement. Thank you." What advancement you have made, sir? Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Your problem is birth, death, old age and disease. What you have made for these four problems? What solution you have got? Your scientific advancement? Is there any solution of controlling birth? They have invented so many contraceptive methods. Still, in every minute, there is three human increasing. Where is your birth control? You cannot control.
So these policies—eating, sleeping, mating and defending—they're in all living entities. That is the, mean, the general law for every living entity. So if you are simply engaged in this eating, sleeping, mating and defending, then what is the difference? That is the defect of modern civilization. If you think that "We have very scientifically running on, so many slaughterhouses, eating purposes," so that is not advancement of civilization. The, in that sense, a tiger is better situated. He hasn't got to keep a slaughterhouse. By nature, he has got nails and jaws: immediately attack and finish. So these things are not advancement of civilization. Real civilization is how to understand your relationship with God, the supreme father. That is real civilization. You may learn it through any process. It doesn't matter. You learn your relationship with the supreme father through this Christianity. That's all right.
Festival Lectures
Kaunteya pratijānīhi: "Arjuna, you can declare it all over the world that anyone who has taken shelter at My lotus feet, become devotee, he will never be vanquisher." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). So these are the assurances. But the atheist class of men like Hiraṇyakaśipu cannot understand this. That is the defect. They challenge always God. The dissension between the father and the son was that the son was believer in God, Kṛṣṇa, and the father was not. So at the end the father saw what is God in the form of death. At that time he could not save him. So that is the difference between theist and atheist. The atheist always challenges, "Where is God? Can you show me?" Well, you will see. Not now. Just at the maturation of your all sinful activities, when death will come, you will see Him. This is going on.
There must be a class fully for business, cow protection, agriculture. That is also required. Nothing is neglected. Just like in our body there are four parts; the mouth, the arms, the belly, and the legs. So everything is required for proper upkeep of the body. Not that you ask the mouth to walk or ask the leg to eat. How it is that? The modern civilization is defective. They do not know how to maintain society. There is therefore no peace. Especially there is want of brain. Crazy. Just like throughout the whole body, the head is the most important part of the body. If you cut your hands, you can live, but if you cut your head, you cannot live. Then whole thing is gone. Similarly, at the present moment the society is headless, a dead body, or head cracked, crazy. There is head, nonsense head. Nonsense head. What is the use of nonsense head? Therefore there is a great necessity of creating a class who will act as brain and head. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement.
You renounce something which you possess, but if you do not possess something, what is the meaning of your renouncement? You came here empty-handed, you live here for some time and go away. So in the beginning you are not proprietor, and when you go away you are not proprietor. Then what is the meaning of your renouncement? That is the defect. So we don't renounce. We think, we see that everything is given by Kṛṣṇa to us. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Now, I... Nothing belongs to me, everything Kṛṣṇa's. Even my body, that is also Kṛṣṇa's. My mind, that is also Kṛṣṇa's. My thoughts, my speech, whatever I create, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa philosophy, and actually, that is the fact.
Very simple truth. And why Rādhārāṇī should not be attracted by Kṛṣṇa? But the difference is: here everything is false. False means the attraction is not real attraction. But there the attraction is real. Here I am attracted with a boy, with a girl—after six months, finished. Because there are so many defects, therefore the attraction does not exist. It is all defective. This body is false, false in the sense it is an imitation. Just like you see one idol in the dress shop, very nice girl standing, but it is a false; similarly, this body made of material elements is not our real body. False. Similarly, the girl's body is false. Therefore, because false, the so-called love and attraction is also false. Therefore our so-called love breaks. There is no love here. It cannot be. There cannot be any love. This is... That tendency is there, but due to this material contamination, lust is going on in the name of love. Actually it is lust.
Unless we realize our self, all activities that we are enacting, this is meant for our defeat.
Therefore, practically we see that in spite of advancement of education, in spite of economic development, in spite of so many philosophical speculations, we are in the same problematic atmosphere. That is the defect of the present civilization, because they do not know what we are. We are spirit soul. So we must realize. That is... If we want to realize, everything explained in the Vedic literature, which is summarized in the Vedānta-sūtra and later on in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And five thousand years, the Lord Himself, Lord Kṛṣṇa, spoke the philosophy or the knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā.
The United Nation is there, and there are many other organizations. They are trying to have real peace and tranquillity, no misunderstanding between man to man, nation to nation. But that is not happening. That is not happening. The defect is that in the root is wrong. Everyone's thinking "It is my country. It is my family. It is my society. It is my property." This "mine" is illusion. In the śāstra it is said, janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This "I and my" philosophy is illusion.
So this illusion means māyā. māyā... If you want to get out of this illusion, māyā, then you have to accept the Kṛṣṇa's formula. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā for guidance if we accept the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Everything is there. Peace is there, prosperity is there. So that is a fact. Unfortunately, we do not accept it. That is our misfortune. Or we misinterpret it.
And at last He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya. That means the so-called dharmas that we have manufactured, man-made dharmas, they are not dharmas. Dharma means what is given by God. But we have no understanding what is God and what is His word. That is the modern civilization defect. But the order is there, God is there—we won't accept. Where is the possibility of peace? The order is there. Kṛṣṇa says, the Supreme, bhagavān uvāca. Vyāsadeva writes bhagavān uvāca. One should know what is bhagavān. Vyāsadeva could have written kṛṣṇa uvāca. No. He says... If one may misunderstand Kṛṣṇa, therefore he writes in every stanza, every verse, śrī bhagavān uvāca. So Bhagavān is there. Bhagavān is speaking. Bhagavān is accepted by all the ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī.
Every one of us, when I was speaking, because... We are not perfect because in our conditional life we have got four defects. The first defect is that we commit mistake. Any one of us who are sitting here, nobody can vouchsafe that he has not committed any mistake in life. No, that is natural. "To err is human." In our country, even a personality like Mahātmā Gandhi, he committed so many mistakes. So to commit mistake is not unusual. It is usual for any man. Then again, one is illusioned. Illusioned means accepting something for something. Just like every one of us, we accept this body as ourself, but actually we are not, everyone. On this bodily concept of life the whole trouble is there in the whole trouble is there in the world. I am thinking "Indian"; you are thinking "American"; he is thinking "dog"; he is thinking "cat"; because on this bodily concept of life.
Because people are becoming like animals. As the animals have no other interest than four principles of bodily necessities—eating, sleeping, mating and defending—so in this age people are interested with four principles of bodily want. They have no information of the soul, neither they are prepared to realize what is soul. That is the defect of this age. But human form of life is especially meant for realizing himself, "What I am?" That is the mission of human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is meant for inquiring about Brahman. Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān. These inquiries should be there. Jijñāsu. They are called jijñāsu, brahma-jijñāsa, jijñāsu, inquiry. As we inquire every morning, "What is the news today?" Immediately we pick newspaper. That inquisitiveness is there. But we are inquiring very base things only. There is no desire to inquire about the highest possibility, brahma-jñāna. That is the lack of this modern civilization. Inquiring how to earn money: divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā (SB 2.1.3).
Nityaḥ śāśvato yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. So, as Kṛṣṇa comes, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). Kṛṣṇa is eternal, but still, He appears. The same example. Just like the sun is in the sky but we see in the morning it appears; in the evening it retires. That is defectness of our eyes. Actually the sun is always there. So similarly Vaiṣṇava, as Kṛṣṇa comes, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava means the confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa, he also comes for some purpose by the order of the master. So their life and Kṛṣṇa's life, it is same. There is no question of past, present, future. Nityaḥ. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So they are the same thing as the appearance and disappearance of sun. And Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, our master, spiritual master, he also came in this world to execute some mission of life or mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
It is very important movement because it is correcting the human civilization. There is a great defect in the modern civilization, and people are accepting this body as self, and based on this mistake in the foundation, everything is going wrong. The basic principle of civilization—accepting this body as the soul—is the beginning of all problems. The great philosophers, scientists, theologists and thoughtful men, they do not know what is the defect. Recently I was in Moscow. I had a talk with a big professor of Indology, Professor Kotovsky. So he was speaking that "Swamijī, after this finishing, annihilation of this body, everything is finished." So I was astonished that a learned professor who is posing himself on a very advanced post, he has no idea about the soul and the body, how they are different, how the soul migrating from one body to another.
That is the difficulty, that those who are foolish people, they are taking leading part. That is the defect of modern civilization. One who has no knowledge, he is taking the part of a teacher. So a hodgepodge, must be. He is speaking something hodgepodge. Just like this, one does not know what is Vedānta, and he is reading Vedānta. It is very simple truth. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. There must be something, ultimate, goal. But the modern process is that we go on unlimitedly, but never we come to the end. Is it not like that? What do you think?
So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on this science of sciences to understand first of all that "What you are? Are you this body or different from this body?" This is essential. And if you go on constructing your big building on a defective foundation, then it will not stay. There will be danger. So modern civilization is based on this defective idea that "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian"—these are all bodily concept of life. "Because I have got this body from a Christian father and mother, therefore I am a Christian." But I am not this body. "Because I have got this body from a Hindu father and mother, therefore I am Hindu." But I am not this body.
Initiation Lectures
Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (audience responds) So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to approach the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Directly. This is a special gift of Lord Caitanya that... In this age there are so many anomalies, defects in the life of human being that gradually they are giving up the idea of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. Not only gradually they are giving up, they have already given up. So Vedānta-sūtra therefore says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. It is not that a different type of religious system we have introduced. It is a great necessity of the present day. Because we say that either you follow scripture, Bible, or you follow Koran or you follow Vedas, the aim is God. But at the present moment, due to the influence of this Kali-yuga... Kali-yuga means the age of quarrel and disagreement.
A sinful man is very expert to commit sinful activities, but the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is so strong that he will be unable to commit so much sins as can be extinguished simply by uttering once the name of Lord Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. This is a fact. But unfortunately, we, by chanting, vanquish all kinds of sinful activities. That's all right. But the next moment we again begin. So that is the defect. Just like I have taken some poison. Now you go to a doctor, he gives you medicine. The poisonous effect is finished or gone. You are now free. And just after coming from the doctor's house, again you take poison, and again go to the doctor. The doctor will give you medicine, but what is this business, that you go to the doctor and counteract the poisonous effect and again come back and again take poison? What is this business? Is it very intelligent business? If you want to take poison, then take poison and die. Why you go to the physician and counteract it and again take poison? You see?
Wedding Ceremonies
They are chanting and They are playing on flute and They're enjoying life. They have got Their associates. So it is not dry, but it is highest perfectional stage, in purity. Not in the material modes of passion and ignorance. So everyone is hankering after that pure, joyful life, but he does not know where to get it. That is the defect. That information we are giving. Here is the life. You just try to approach Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and you'll have full life of enjoyment. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In the Vedānta-sūtra it is stated that the Supreme Person, the Supreme Lord, is full of enjoyment. He's not morose. He's not old. He is not without a joyful life. He is full of joyful life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to transfer everyone to that platform of full joyful life. So in order to give them facility for acquiring this highest goal of life, we have introduced the marriage... The marriage system is there also according to our Vaiṣṇava smṛti.
General Lectures
This is called illusion, ignorance, or māyā. We are very much serious about the nonpermanent things, the body which will not exist, which will be vanquished after certain period of years, but we do not take care of the eternal consciousness, which is changing from one body to another. This is the defect of the modern civilization. And so long we are unaware of the presence of the spirit soul in the body, so long we do not inquire what is the spirit soul, so long our all activities are simply wasting our time. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that parābhavas tāvad abhodha-jātaḥ. The foolish person or the foolish living entity... Anyone who has accepted this temporary body is understood to be foolish. So every one of us is born foolish because we identify with this temporary body as myself. Therefore we are foolish. Everyone knows that the body does not exist, and still, everyone identifies himself with this body. This is called ignorance, or illusion.
You do not know, because as you say you are here, here your coat is there, your pant is there, your hand is there, your body is there, but you cannot explain where you are. All right. Sit down. I shall explain. (laughter) This is the defect of modern education. We are educated in a way in which we have misunderstood, "This is my body. This is my hand. This is my leg. This is my country. This is my mother. This is my father. This is my school." "This is my," I know. I have the concept of "my." But who is conceiving "my"? We have no information where it is. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Under misconception we understand my body as myself. I say, "It is my body," but I misidentify my body with myself. Is it not?
Everyone is, all the education centers, the universities, they are, I mean to say, busy studying chemistry, physics, and biology, mathematics. At most, little philosophy. That is also on mental speculation, theory. Somebody is giving some theory; somebody's giving (another) theory. But nobody discussing about the eternal spirit soul. That is the defect of this modern civilization.
So it is very hard task for us to convince them, but the fact is this. Either they accept or not accept, it is our misfortune or their misfortune, but the fact is this, that as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, or as Lord Kṛṣṇa said, that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: (BG 15.7) "All these living entities are My part and parcels." So what is the duty of part and parcel? The part and parcel is... Of course, the same example. Just my, this hand is part and parcel of the body. So the duty of the hand is to serve the whole body. That's all. There is no other duty. The hand cannot eat out of his own account.
Śyāmasundara. Śyāma means blackish but very, very beautiful. That beautiful person, Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, is being observed and seen by saintly persons always. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. Why they are seeing? Because their eyes have been cleared by the ointment of love of God. Just like if your eyes are defective, you apply some ointment, some lotion from the physician, and your eyesight becomes clear and bright, you can see things very nicely. Similarly, when your, these material eyes will be ointmented with love of God, then you'll see God, "Here is God." You will not say God is dead. And that covering has to be moved, and to move that covering you have to take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
This is the opportunity. This human form of life is the opportunity to understand the science of the Absolute. Either you say God or Absolute Truth or the Supersoul, the same thing. But this life is meant for understanding. If we miss this opportunity, we do not know where we are going. The defect of the modern civilization is they don't care. Hedonism, Cārvāka's theory. There was, long, long before, there was an atheist philosopher. As there are many atheist philosophers nowadays, in former days also. He was known as Cārvāka Muni. According to his opinion, he says that don't care for next life. Don't care. Bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kuto punar āgamano bhavet. He says... Because according to Vedic system, the body is burned after death. As you bury underground... There are three processes everywhere. Somebody throws away for being eaten up by birds, or somebody puts within the ground, or somebody burns it.
It is a second edition of Buddha philosophy. Zero, but that zero is without life. Māyāvāda philosophy says, "Yes, that zero, but with life." That is the mistake. If there is life, then there must be varieties. Life without variety is not possible. Dead body without variety, not life without variety. So these are the defects of all other philosophies. They're not defects, but the class of people amongst whom the philosophy was taught, they could not understand more than that. That's all. Just like a patient too much disturbed, he wants some medicine from the physician: "Please stop my disturbance. Kill me. Kill me." Sometimes they say like that: "Give me some poison, kill me. I cannot tolerate." A physician says, "Yes, there is no need of killing. I shall give you good, healthy life."
That's all. So this expansion from bodily concept of life to family life, or to, from family to community life, from community to society life, or national life, or universal brotherhood life, that is very much appreciated. "Oh, this man is after universal brotherhood." These are all bogus. You see? But this is a misconception. You can expand. However you may expand, the defect will be there. Just like the so-called nationalist or humanitarist or universalist, they are packed up within the boundary of the human being. They have no expansions toward other living entities. Their national conception, that the human body should be given protection but animal body no protection... Why? They are also nationals. But they have no such idea because all these ideas are defective. There is shortcut.
So, the Mahārāja King Parīkṣit, he was cursed by a brāhmaṇa to die within a week. That was the problem. So because he was emperor and... He was assured that he was going to die within a week, so he prepared himself. That is the duty of every human being, to prepare oneself before death. That is the defect of modern civilization. They do not know what is life. They take it very easily, this life, just like animals. "If I can eat nicely, if I can sleep nicely, if I can have sex life nicely, and if I can defend my country or my home nicely, then my business is finished." This is the modern way of civilization. They take account of the small portion of our life. Just like in the cinema film spool, there are hundreds and thousands of pictures, and that makes one complete picture. Similarly, we are passing through the different phases of life. So out of many thousands of pictures within the film spool, if I simply take care of one picture, that is not very intelligent.
Vedic process is that our research work is not complete because the instruments and the means by which we make progress in research work are blunt and imperfect. We are conditioned. At this stage of our material existence, we are conditioned by so many laws of nature. Under the circumstances, every conditioned soul has four defects. Just like to commit mistake. There is no man, even great man, who does not commit mistake. More or less, he commits mistake. Just like in our country there was Mahatma Gandhi. He was supposed to be a very great personality, mahātmā, but he also committed mistake because when he was killed, five minutes before his coming to the meeting, he was warned by his confidential associates not to go to that meeting, but he persisted, and as soon as he entered the meeting hall he was killed. So I am giving an instance that even a great personality like Mahatma Gandhi, he also committed mistake. So in the conditioned state of our life, committing mistake is very natural. Just like we say, "To err is human."
One can understand what is God by the mercy of God, not by mental speculation. It is not possible. We have got very limited scope of knowledge. Our senses are imperfect, we are full of cheating propensities, and we are liable to commit mistake. These four defects are within us. However a great man one may be, he is sure to commit mistake. I shall give you one tangible example in the life of Mahatma Gandhi. You know he was a very great man, political leader in India. So he was also very God-fearing man, a very nice soul. But he also committed mistakes so many times. So to err is human. This is a fact in every person. Therefore, because we commit mistake, because we are sometimes illusioned, and because we have got a propensity of cheating others, and because our senses are imperfect, therefore, simply by mental speculation it is not possible to realize God. Then how one can realize God?
I have seen many English translation of this Bhagavad-gītā in your country. Some of them are translated by American scholars, and some of them are translated by other countries, scholars. But there are many. But unfortunately, none of them have presented Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They have tried to exploit the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and put something of their own idea. This is the defect. But Bhagavad-gītā, if we want to understand, then we have to accept it by the formula as described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like if you have got the medicinal bottle, the direction and dose is on the label, that "Two tablets thrice in a day, after meals," like that. But if you take the tablets according to your own whim or somebody who does not know how to use that medicine, without consulting the physician, then you may be in dangerous position. You will not get the result.
In your country, what is the meaning of national? National means one who has taken birth in that particular country. Is that all right? National? You feel for another American because he is born in this country. Or any other country, Indian. That national feeling, that is called national feeling. You feel for your countrymen. You sacrifice your life for your country. But there is defect. What is that defect? If this is the definition—that a living entity or a person born in that country, he is a national—then why not the animals? They are also born in that country. But we are not expanding our feelings beyond this human society. We don't think animals are national assets. Animals are sent to the slaughterhouse. So this is because the center of national feeling or international feeling is losing. The center is not fixed up. If the center is right, then you can make circle from that center, any number of circles, they'll never overlap. They'll be growing, growing, growing. They'll not interact with one another if the center is all right.
Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, sādhu, śāstra, kṛpāya. A sādhu means devotee. That I was going to explain. A sādhu, there are different kinds of sādhus, but only the devotee, he is sādhu. It is explained by Kṛṣṇa himself, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He is sādhu. Even if you find some defects in him due to his former habits, but he is simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, unflinching devotion, he is sādhu. He is sādhu. In spite of some defects. We must admit, even in fire there are some defects. Fire is so pure that anything impure you put into the fire, it becomes pure. Perhaps you know in our Hindu system if a one utensil becomes impure some time, you put it in the fire and it becomes pure. Is it not? Is it not?
So, fire is considered to be pure. Therefore any ceremony is done before fire-god. So, Kṛṣṇa says that even fire is so pure, still there are some defect, there is smoke. So, if you want to find out defect, you'll find out in fire also. But that doesn't matter, fire is fire. Similarly, a devotee, an unflinching devotee, without any other desires, who is dedicated to the service of the Lord, he is sādhu. So we have to take shelter of such sādhu. Ādau gurv-āśrayam. And sādhu will instruct you. Not by whims, but through śāstra. He is sādhu. Sādhu will never speak to you anything which is not in the śāstra. Sādhu, śāstra, and guru. And guru is bona fide spiritual master who follows sādhu and śāstra. Who follows his bona fide spiritual master and who follows the instructions of śāstra, he is guru. sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya, tinete kariyā aikya.
An animal sees that there is water in the desert, and being thirsty, he goes after the water, but the water also makes progress, and he also makes progress. In this way he dies. That is called illusion. Actually, there is no water, but he is fleeing after water. So for conditioned soul these are the defects. He is to commit mistake, he is illusioned, and he has got a cheating propensity also. Everyone is thinking in transaction that "I have cheated that man very nicely. In business transaction I have gained; he has lost." And of all the deficiencies, most important deficiency is that our senses are imperfect. We say, "I want to see God," but we forget that our eyes are so imperfect that I cannot see in the nearest eyelid. As soon as I close my eyes, I do not see the eyelid. This is the power of my seeing. Therefore we should not be so much proud of our seeing power that we'll say that "I want to see God. Can you show me God?" This is not possible.
Similarly, after finishing this body also, I will exist. Is there any difficulty to understand? There is no difficulty. I am eternal. The only difference is that, because we are infinitesimal living spark, therefore we forget. Just like I can remember roughly about my childhood days, but I cannot remember the day to day activities in my childhood. That is, that defect is there due to my infinitesimal position. In the Bhagavad-gītā this fact was very nicely discussed between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa said that "This philosophy was spoken by Me to the sun-god millions of years ago," Arjuna inquired, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, how can I believe that you spoke some millions of years ago this philosophy to the sun-god?"
"This body has come out all of a sudden by accident"—and the body means the senses—"and let us enjoy the senses to the best capacity. That is perfection of life." The whole world, especially the Western country, their ideology, philosophy, is this, hedonism. "Enjoy this life very comfortably, as nicely as possible." But that is a great defect and great mistake. Those who are in gross sense enjoyment platform, it is very difficult for them to understand. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Those who are too much attached to material sense enjoyment, bhoga... Bhoga means material sense enjoyment. And roga, roga means which puts impediments to sense enjoyment, or diseased condition. You cannot enjoy life in diseased condition.
"Whose nature?" God's nature. Nature is not acting independently. That is another foolishness. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is clearly said that nature, this material nature is not independent. Just like a foolish man, when he sees that machine is working automatically, machine is not working automatically. There is a driver. A foolish man cannot see behind the machine a driver. That is our defect in vision. A machine, there is electronics working very wonderfully. But behind that electronic work, there is a great scientist who is pushing the button. It is very simple to understand. Machine is matter. It cannot work out of its own accord. It is working under some spiritual direction. Just like this machine, the tape recorder, is working, but it is working under the direction of a living entity, a human being. The machine is all complete, but unless it is manipulated by a spirit soul, it cannot work. Similarly, take it for granted that the whole cosmic manifestation is a great machine, nature.
Vyāsadeva has given you Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam after his mature experience. He wrote all the Vedic literatures but he was not happy. So when he was not in his mood, he was deeply thinking that "What is the defect in my writings that after writing so many Vedic literatures I am not feeling very happy," at that time his spiritual master happened to appear before him, and he explained that why he was not happy. He explained that "You have touched many subject matters about dharma, artha, kāma, and mokṣa-religion, economic development, sense gratification and liberation—but you have not explained about the Supreme Personality of Godhead; therefore you are feeling unhappy." So Vyāsadeva, after writing Vedānta-sūtra, he, by the instruction of Nārada Muni, his spiritual master, he compiled this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
The whole idea is the human society should remain in peace and prosperity. And the vivid example is the United Nations in your country. America invited all nations that "Let us form a community of United Nations," but the America herself is fighting. You see? Because the idea was there to unite, but they do not know the basic principle, how to unite. That is the defect. There is a church in the United Nations, and we tried to get a room there for making our propaganda. The church unity denied to give us. So their crippled mind is not expanded. Sa mahātmā... Mahātmā means broad-minded. Su-durlabhaḥ. So mahātmā, unless one becomes nonenvious, mahātmā, there is no question of so-called unity or fraternity. These are all false propaganda. It is not possible. But they will stick to that proposition, that "We have got this..." For the last twenty years... Why twenty years? More than twenty years. When this United Nations was started?
So anyone who is attempting to get eternal, blissful life of knowledge, he is intelligent man. Otherwise, one who is spoiling his life simply for animal propensities, eating, sleeping, mating, he's no better than animal. That's all. Cats and dog. Polished cat, polished dog maybe, but he is animal. This bhāgavata-dharma means that, how to get out of these four defects of material life, or four miserable condition of material life—birth, death, old age and disease—and get eternal, blissful life of knowledge. That is called bhāgavata-dharma.
So it is a great science. It is not sentiment. It is a great science. And anyone can achieve this benefit in this human form of life. Anyone. It doesn't matter what he is, provided he is serious about getting out of these material clutches and regain his spiritual life. That is possible. So Vedic civilization is aimed at this point.
You know, to some extent, the... I say "to some extent" because we are not... Although I am the proprietor of this body, still... I do not know how the body is acting, functioning, why there is pain, why there is pleasure. So many things, we do not know—partially we know—although I am the proprietor. If there is some defect in the bodily function, I cannot detect it. I go to another person, a physician. So although I am proprietor of this body, I do not know exactly what is functioning, how it is becoming in happy condition or in morose condition. So... But supposing that I know everything, but still, I do not know what is happening in your body. That is not possible. Therefore it is concluded that we are individuals. We are individuals. I have got my individual pains and pleasures; you have got your individual pains and pleasures. So you are individual person; I am individual person.
I had the opportunity of talking with some professors. One of them was very interested, Professor Kotovsky. So he said, "Swamijī, after death everything is finished." So I was simply surprised that a responsible professor, teaching staff, he's completely in ignorance about the existence of soul. So that is the defect of the modern civilization. One who is not perfect in knowledge, he is as a teacher, he's passing on as a teacher. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Andhāḥ means blind. One blind man, he is trying to help other blind man. So what is the use of such advancement of education? If the teacher himself is blind, then what is the use of taking knowledge from him? That is going on.
So what is the use of such advancement of education? If the teacher himself is blind, then what is the use of taking knowledge from him? That is going on.
So defect of the modern civilization is andhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ. Very few men know what is the ultimate goal of life, what is soul, what is God, what is our relationship with God, how we have to lead our life, to achieve the ultimate goal of life. These things are very missing. We are trying to follow the same principles of animals. Animals, they are concerned with eating, sleeping, sexual intercourse and defending. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhiḥ narānām. So they have got these propensities, animals, and we have got the same propensities. Sāmānyam. We are similar to the animals in the matters of eating, sleeping, mating and defending.
God inspiration comes for every work. That's a fact. But we deny... Just like... You take this simple exam, example. Just like a thief. From within, he's forbidden: "Don't commit theft." But he does it. He does it. You have got all experience about these things. God says from within, "Don't do it," but we do it. That is the defect of without being Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a thief. He knows that for his criminal activities he'll be punished. He has seen it, that a thief is arrested and he's taken to the prison house. And he has heard from the śāstra and from lawbooks that committing theft is not good. Why does he commit it? He knows and he has seen it. Why does he do it? Can you answer? He knows that it is not good, and he has heard it from śāstra and from learned lawyers. But why does he do it? This is the influence of nature. As he associated with the nature, ignorance, dark ignorance. He cannot check it.
All over the world. So now we want some of the young men to come forward to become really brāhmaṇas, Vaiṣṇavas. Our Vedic culture is divided into four varṇas: brāhmaṇa kṣatriya vaiśya śūdra. Unfortunately we are simply manufacturing śūdras, not brāhmaṇas. That is the defect of modern education. Śūdra, śūdra means paricaryātmakam kāryaṁ śūdra karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). After education, every (indistinct) is hankering after a service. That is śūdra karma svabhāva-jam. This is not perfect education. There must be brāhmaṇas who are independent. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, whose name is still, still celebrated, he was prime minister of Mahārāja Candragupta, but he was not accepting a single paisa as salary. That was the, formerly, although there was monarchy, still there was a council of learned brāhmaṇas and sages. They used to advise the king. The brāhmaṇas did not take part in politics, but they gave advice, instruction to the kings, rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayoḥ viduḥ.
Then from plants, trees, to insect. From insect to birds. Then bird to beast. From beast to human being. Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva-jātiṣu. They're all mentioned. The evolutionary theory, it is not new thing, as it is stated by Darwin. It is there in the Padma Purāṇa. But it is very perfectly explained there. Darwin has not very perfectly explained. There are so many defects. But real thing is that the living entity, soul, is transmigrating from one body to another and the chance of developed consciousness is human form of life. In this human form of life, if we do not understand "What I am, wherefrom I have come, where I am going next, why I have taken this body, subjected to so much miserable tribulations of life which I do not want?"
There is no guarantee. There is no scientific guarantee that "You are not going to be tree, you are again going to become American." No, there is no guarantee. But there is guarantee. Because the so-called scientists cannot make solution of this problem, they do not believe in next life. That is their defect of knowledge, lack of knowledge. They cannot make any solution. He wants to live permanently, but he cannot live by the laws of nature. Why does he not make a solution of this? But we can give the solution. Everyone does not want to become old. But he becomes forced to become old. Why he does not make any solution? But that solution we can give. This is Eastern culture.
So we are spreading this sanātana-dharma, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, throughout the whole world, not on the superficial platform of this bodily concept of life. We are teaching everyone that "You are not this body." Actually we are not, but it is because we are, at the present moment, we are educated as first-class rascals and fools, we are thinking that "I am this body." This is the defect of the modern civilization. But actually what Kṛṣṇa is trying to instruct Arjuna... Arjuna means everyone. He's not simply talking with Arjuna. Arjuna is simply via media. He's talking to the whole human society, intelligent class of men, that "We existed, we are existing now, and we shall exist also in the future." This is called sanātana, eternity. So na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ: "In the future we also shall exist." Now we should consider what is the problem now: I was present in the past, I am now present in the present, and I shall exist in the future. Then what is my problem?
Everything has got cause and effect. So therefore Arjuna has decided to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Being. And He has no material body; therefore His knowledge, whatever knowledge is given by Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. Anyone who is giving knowledge in this material body, he has got four defects. The first defect is that a person in the material body must commit mistake. Must commit, less or more. And the..., anyone who possessing this material body, he must be illusioned. Illusioned means that accepting something for something. Just like we are accepting this body as self. But this is illusion. I'm not this body. I am spiritual spark, part and parcel of God. That is my position. But anyone identifying himself, he thinks that he's this body... Especially the animals. The animals have no knowledge that he's different from the body. Therefore a human being, if he's under the impression that he is this body, he's no better than the animal.
So actually, if the word you use as the name of God, if it's actually real name of God, then by chanting that holy name, you realize God. Therefore tongue is the beginning of realization. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). As well as controlling the tongue, we have to spiritualize the tongue. If you keep the tongue materialized, then it is defective. So two things are done by the tongue: tasting foodstuff and chanting the glories of the Lord. If we engage our tongue in this way... Foodstuff means..., our process is to offer foodstuff to the Lord and the remnants of foodstuff we eat, prasāda. So this is one process, this is one business of the tongue. And another business of the tongue is to chant the holy name of the Lord. So in this way, if you engage your tongue in the service of the Lord, then gradually your realize.
"I shall not do it." That is the thing. Otherwise it is very easy thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if we adopt it, our life becomes successful. That is the perfection of life. That we are teaching. But there is a dog's obstinacy that they will not adopt: "No." This is our defect. Otherwise the process is very simple; everyone can adopt it in every country, every man. There is no distinction that "This class of men can adopt and that class of men can..." No. Just like the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, it is now being chanted all over the world, and they are becoming Vaiṣṇava. These European, American boys... Then where is the difficulty? But the difficulty is our obstinacy.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect of the modern civilization. One does not know, and he wants to teach. (laughter)
Woman: I want to teach only to understand.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. To understand the God is... We are worshiping the God's image. He has got the two hands, two legs, like us. But His hands and legs are not like our hands and legs. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi. God hand is so expansive, universal, that although He is in His kingdom, in His abode, when you offer something to God, He takes. He can expand His hand in that way. Not only one devotee but at the simultaneously many millions of devotees are offering Him and taking, He is taking. That is His hand.
So Bhagavān, the last word in the understanding of Absolute Truth, He says in this Bhagavad-gītā.
So Vyāsadeva specifically means here, bhagavān uvāca. He does not say kṛṣṇa uvāca, because sometimes Kṛṣṇa is misunderstood by the fools. So bhagavān uvāca, this word, means whatever He says, there is no defect or deficiencies. For ordinary person like us there are four defects: bhrama pramāda vipralipsā kara-ṇāpāṭava. Vipralipsā, cheating. Vipralipsā, cheating. So in the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa or self-realized person, servants of Kṛṣṇa, those who have understood Kṛṣṇa, for them there are no deficiencies. They are perfect.
There is no devotion unless you go to a guru. Forget it. Ādau gurvāśrayam. First thing is, first business, is to accept a bona fide guru. Otherwise there is no devotion. It is simply false imitation. This is the injunction of Rūpa Gosvāmī in Bhakti-rasāmṛta sindhu. Ādau gurvāśrayam: "Your first business is to approach bona fide guru and take his āśraya." Otherwise there is no devotion. That has been the defect in the modern society. They imagine. This business should be given up. He must follow. Sādhu-mārgānugāmanam, which is prescribed by the sādhu, guru, you have to accept that. You cannot manufacture your own way.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: He is trying to prove that there are certain truths that we cannot deny they exist independent of our knowledge. Fundamental. And there are other truths that people say, like snow is white, which may not be true because our senses deceive us.
Prabhupāda: That is your defective senses. But snow is white, that's a fact. Why should it be red? At least we have no experience with red snow.
Śyāmasundara: I've seen red snow.
Prabhupāda: How it is?
Śyāmasundara: Particles of lava dust gathered in the snow and in the air...
Śyāmasundara: Just like if I saw by my senses some snow that was red.
Prabhupāda: That is due to your defect of seeing a condition and not knowing the condition.
Śyāmasundara: But I can explain by sufficient reasons why that snow is red.
Prabhupāda: Just like a living entity is trying to become master—"I am the monarch of all I survey." That is untruth. The truth is that he is eternal servant. You cannot say that because one is trying to be imitation God, that that is another truth. You cannot say that. That is māyā. There cannot be a second God. God is one. That is truth, absolute truth. Our point is that we do not accept this proposition, that there are two types of truth. That is not at all acceptable. Truth is one.
Prabhupāda: The scientist, he'll say that the father begets the child. Why it is not related? It is simply lunacy not to believe this. Where is the instance that without father some child has taken birth? Where is such instance? He himself is talking such nonsense. He is born by his father. The cause is his father. Similarly, his father is also the effect of his father. Therefore there is supreme father, father of this cosmic manifestation. How you can deny it? That is the defect of the speculators: they contradict themselves.
Śyāmasundara: This is just what he is saying, that whenever you try to speculate about the Absolute you will run into contradictions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So contradiction mean imperfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge means who sticks to his principles. That is perfect knowledge. One who does not stick to his original proposal, his knowledge is imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So why do they not respect others' person. The animal is also person. What is this philosophy? That is the defect, that one is a rascal and he is taking the position of a philosopher. That is the defect. He's a rascal number one. He does not respect others' individuality, and he philosophizes that ones individuality should be observed.
Śyāmasundara: He says that there are three basic rights. The first is property rights; the second is the right of contract; the third right is the right of redress of wrongs; in the sense that crimes should be punished.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But it is not crime to kill an animal? The animal has no right to live independently?
Prabhupāda: That's all right but that means he has no clear knowledge. That's all. So therefore we can say they are rascals. And one who does not know God, he is rascal. Following, that is our philosophy(?). But because knowledge means to understand God. The animals, they do not understand God. Therefore they are called animal. Similarly, any man, any so-called (indistinct) does not know God, he is animal. He may be nicely dressed, that is another thing, but factually he is an animal, because he does not know God. That is the position of animals. What is the difference between man and animal? That is the difference, the animal cannot know what is God, the man can know. That is fundamental. It may be... There are difference of animals but no animal is able to understand God. And here the difficulty is that one is in the animal's position, he does not know God but he takes the position of teacher. That is the difficulty of this modern civilization. The person in position of animal is trying to teach others. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānaḥ as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "The blind man is trying to lead other blind men." That is the defect of the modern civilization.
Prabhupāda: Just like you are traveling in a train. There is first class, second class—that is already existing. But if you pay more, you come to the first class. You cannot say, "Now the first class is now created." It was already existing. So their defect is that they have no information of the soul. The soul is transmigrating. The forms are already there. The soul is transmigrating from one apartment to another apartment. That they do not know.
Śyāmasundara: But still I'm not convinced that if we make geologic investigations all over the world, not just the Grand Canyon or here or there, but in many parts of the world we always find the same thing, that the...
Prabhupāda: But if you say that you have studied all over the world, I say you have not studied all over the planet. That is still defective.
Śyāmasundara: They'll have an artificial and mechanical baby factory, effective control of most human defects. Single-celled life will be created from chemicals off the shelf. They can make intelligent animals to do menial work. And then in seventy-eight years they say that they will be able to regenerate...
Prabhupāda: Just like there was Pan American, they were selling tickets for going to Candraloka. Reservation.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Prabhupāda, is it possible that man could ever make even a one-celled living being?
Prabhupāda: The same intelligence, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13), they're trying to find out life in this lump of matter. That is their defect.
Śyāmasundara: They'll spend so many billions of dollars, and years of work.
Prabhupāda: The same example. Just like computer machine. They do not find that the machine is made by a brain which is different from this material. But he's trying to find out a brain from this. This is their childish... The brain is different from machine. The machine is lump of iron. And the one who is working with the machine is a different from the machine. That they do not know. That they do not know. That is their defect. Now what is this computer machine will do unless there is a worker in the computer room, highly salaried man?
Prabhupāda: That is philosophic; that is not scientific. He found something and he based his thesis on that. He cannot find out all the bodies, because there are, at the end, some section, some sect they burn the body. So how he can get information of their body, burned? So his theory is not at all scientific. It is always defective.
Hayagrīva: He spent the rest of his life writing about the material he gathered during this five-year voyage, which is a very short time. And according to his theory of natural selection, the best and the fittest survived. If this is the case, the race will necessarily steadily improve.
Prabhupāda: What does he mean by survive? What is the meaning of his dictionary, "survive"? Nobody survives.
Prabhupāda: Yes, soul is always important. He is put into different bodies. That is the defect of Darwin's knowledge. He does not know about the soul. So the existence of soul, to understand this is the first education. One who does not know this, he remains animal, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13), if one continues the bodily concept of life without any understanding of the soul. And it is very easy to understand that the child is becoming boy, a boy is becoming young man. So the soul is there, and we remember that "I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man." So I continue to exist, the bodily changes, and this is confirmed in every Vedic scripture, and that is the beginning of knowledge. If one does not understand how the soul is changing body, he remains on the level of cats and dogs.
Hayagrīva: So, so much... It's the end of Darwin. (break) ...Thomas, Thomas Henry...
Prabhupāda: In that case, all defect is that nobody could ascertain the beginning of life, but here is the solution. The beginning of life is from the very beginning of creation.
Hayagrīva: Simultaneous creation.
Prabhupāda: Simultaneously. That we see practically. That pregnancy, in the beginning of the body that is the beginning of life also. No that first of all one becomes pregnant and then the life comes. You have got a daily experience. Rather, the life is there, therefore the pregnancy is there. Is it not? But they say, modern rascals, that the, the body develops to a certain extent and then the life comes. So before the life coming, if the body is destroyed there is no killing. Is not that the theory at the present moment, they are killing child?
Prabhupāda: We cannot recall. That is the defect in our life. Therefore the literatures are there to remind us. That opportunity is there in the human form of life to take advantage of this Vedic knowledge which is kept in the literature. Just like Bhagavad-gītā or any Vedic literature. Especially Bhagavad-gītā is the nutshell of all Vedic knowledge. So we have forgotten. But this forgotten, forgetfulness is not perpetual. He can be reminded and he can come to his real consciousness. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. These rascals, they have forgotten God, Kṛṣṇa, and they are thinking that "We are the master of everything." The so-called scientists, they are decrying God: "Now we shall do everything independently." This is demonic. So he has to be reminded. Therefore śāstras are there, sādhus are there—sādhu, śāstra, guru—guru is there, that you are not independent, you are foolishly thinking like that. You are under the clutches of māyā.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you cannot see all men in your whole life; therefore it is defective. You cannot study all men; therefore it is defective. Which is not possible by you, if you propose something which is not possible by you, then what is the meaning of this? What is the utility?
Śyāmasundara: You mean you cannot generalize from particular instances.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot generalize because your senses are limited, your life is limited. How you can study all men? You cannot go all countries where there are so many men all over the world, universe. You cannot test them. Therefore your method is defective. From his definition, that studying all men—but you cannot study. You can study a limited number of men. And if you conclude, suppose whoever you have met, you have seen that he has died. But I may say that you might not have seen a man who never dies. Then what will he accomplish?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. If your knowledge is limited, then you cannot generalize. Therefore our conclusion is that we don't take knowledge from anyone whose power is limited. There are four defects of the ordinary man—he may be John Stuart Mill or something—because he's to commit mistakes, he's illusioned. Just like he's talking of that induction, studying all men. This is an illusion. He cannot study. Suppose you have hundreds and thousands of men you have studied. That does not mean the whole set of human being is finished. That is, therefore, this theory is illusion. And because he's an ordinary man, he's illusioned that it is possible. So these are the defects. One commits mistakes, one is illusioned, one cheats. This is cheating also. The theory which he is putting forward is never possible to be executed, and still he's posing himself that he is philosopher. That is cheating. His senses are imperfect. He cannot do that. And still he proposes the theory. That is cheating. So these four defects are there: committing mistake, to illusion, to cheat others, and studying everything with imperfect senses.
Śyāmasundara: He has five methods for ascertaining knowledge.
Prabhupāda: We have already proved that all his methods are defective.
Śyāmasundara: He says there are five ways. All knowledge, he says, is cause and effect. So he said we can determine what is the cause and what is the effect of anything according to these five methods. One is the method of agreement, that is, if we have two or more instances of a phenomenon and there is one common circumstance behind both of them, that we can conclude that that circumstance is the cause of the effect. Just like if we observe that two stones are thrown into the water, and that each stone is thrown by someone, then we can determine that throwing is the common cause of that stone's going into the water, the common circumstance.
Prabhupāda: Why this example? What is the value of this example?
Śyāmasundara: Any example. Anything that is caused, if there are two instances of it-two balls are dropping—we can conclude, if we studied both of them, that they were both moved by some person, that that person is the cause of their falling. If there is a common circumstance for any phenomenon.
Prabhupāda: The śāstras, the Vedic literature is there, the Upaniṣads are there, books are there, śāstra cakṣuṣa. You have to see it through the śāstras. That is the injunction. You cannot see directly. You have to see śāstra cakṣuṣa. Your eyes, they are defective. Just like if you read astrology, astronomy, then you can understand what is the actual volume or the bulk of the sun, but by your eyes you are seeing just a disc. So all your senses are defective. So directly seeing or perceiving or tasting has no value, because these are all defective. So we have to, it is said, you should see through śāstras, through authoritative instruction.
Śyāmasundara: So if we see the apple fall from the tree, the test that we apply is the sastric test. In order to see God in that act of falling, we have to see it through the eyes of the śāstras.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that experience you have to take from a man who is experienced. Just like he wants to philosophize, he is trying to distribute his experience. But he does not like to take others' experience. That is the defect.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the universe continually grows in quantity by new experiences that graft themselves upon the older mass.
Prabhupāda: This older mass, that we (indistinct) should (indistinct). Therefore our policy is that we should gather experience from a person who is already experienced.
Śyāmasundara: But he says that that person's experience will be transcended by another person's experience.
Prabhupāda: But that is lacking in the present society, because these rascals, they are proud of their nationals but they are denying this same national life to the animals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. Therefore they are rascals. Why the animals should be denied their national right? They are born in the same country. They have a right to live at the cost of God. Why we are interfering with their independence, given right? Therefore they are rascals. Their so-called social, moral, philosophical, political, they are all rascaldom. Therefore our decision is, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā: (SB 5.18.12) anyone who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualities. In the other direction, we will find so many defects with his so-called moral and social position.
Śyāmasundara: He says that God... He defines God as the active relation between the ideal and the actual.
Prabhupāda: So the middle stage, so then you have to learn. You are not perfect, so you do not know. So one who does not know, his speculation, what is the value? Just like a child, if he does not know how the machine is working, how, then his speculation on this machine, what is the value of it? Without perfect knowledge, simply speculation, that is going on. The modern civilization, they prefer simply speculation without any basic truth. That is the defect. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And they have become leaders, philosophers, scientists. Bhāgavata condemns them: andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās. They are blind themselves and they are trying to lead other blind men. So their leading, their science, their philosophy are practically useless. They cannot give any benefit to the human society. Childish.
Prabhupāda: Then why he is mad? We have got experience that there are madmen, but there is hospital also for treating the madmen. Similarly, the world may be mad, but there is hospitalization. That he does not know. From practical experience we see there are many madmen. At the same time there is a hospital, lunatic hospitals also, so treatment is there. So he does not see that. He has no knowledge where is the hospital, how he'll get and be treated. This is accepted, the world is mad, that's all right. But there is treatment also. Because in our experience practically we can show whenever there is disease, there is some treatment of it. But he does not know what is the treatment. He is speaking of sinful life, what he was saying, just like, but he does not accept who is the judge to give me resultant action of my sinful life. The world is mad, but he does not know where the treatment of madman is done. He does not know. Therefore his knowledge is imperfect, and still he is philosophizing. That is the defect. Our proposition is that unless one is perfect, we cannot take knowledge from him. That is our proposition. Therefore our authority is Veda. Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. Why it is perfect? Because it is given by God. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). The Vedic knowledge was imparted to Brahma within the heart. So the perfect knowledge is coming from the supreme perfect. When you take that knowledge, then your knowledge is perfect. Otherwise you can go on. You can become Dr. Frog, that's all.
Hayagrīva: "...and may therefore be demanded back the next hour. All pain rests on the passing away of such allusion. Thus both arise from defective knowledge."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: "The wise man therefore holds himself equally aloof from joy and sorrow, and no event disturbs his composure."
Prabhupāda: The other day, yesterday, I was explaining that this side good, this side bad, the same thing. Stool is stool. So this side or that side. But here in this material world, they are accepting this temporary or false, whatever you call, platform, and we are manufacturing in that false platform, temporary platform, "This is good, this is bad." Why? Where is the good and bad? They are all temporary, or false. We don't say false; we say temporary. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they say false. So that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that the pains and pleasure of this material world, it is experienced by the (indistinct). The spirit soul does not touch this. It is different.
Prabhupāda: He takes only that the willing and satisfaction willing, that is the only business. But he does not see the person who is willing. That is his defect.
Hayagrīva: Supreme Person.
Prabhupāda: Not Supreme Person.
Hayagrīva: The individual.
Prabhupāda: The individual, who is put in this temporary world, willing and satisfaction, but he is reality behind this willing and satisfaction. (break) So Schopenhauer's defect is that he does not see the, there is a person behind this willing; the individual soul, he is willing. So when he stops this flickering willing, then what is next, that he does not see. Nirvāṇa, stopping willing, of this nature of willing, temporary, one kind of willing, one kind of satisfaction, again another kind of willing... Behind this willing whimsically there is the spirit soul.
Prabhupāda: Because the will is there, therefore death is not stoppage of life. He gets another life, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So this proves that the life or the person who is willing, desiring, he is eternal, but he does not know what should be his eternal willing. That is his defect. So we are teaching this. His eternal willing is that he should always will to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then he will be happy.
Hayagrīva: As to the identity of life and death, he says, "The wisest of all philosophies, the Indian, expresses this by giving to the very God that symbolizes destruction, death, by giving, I say to Śiva, as an attribute not only the necklace of skulls but also the liṅgam, the symbol of generation, which appears here as the counterpart of death, thus signifying that generation and death are essentially correlatives which reciprocally neutralize and annul each other." So it's not death that is the solution.
Prabhupāda: Because he did not study Bhagavad-gītā as it is recommended. The recommendation is that one should go to guru. And what kind of guru? Who has seen the truth practically. That he did not do. He is simply speculating on his own experience, and although everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, he could not see it. That is the defect.
Hayagrīva: As an example of suicide, he gives the..., he says that at the procession of Jagannātha in 1840, eleven Hindus threw themselves under the wheels and were instantly killed. And he also mentions the satī rituals of the woman throwing herself into the sacrificial fire, the fire of her husband's funeral pyre.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Without person how there can be love? There is no question of love. You cannot love air or sky; you must find out a man or woman in the, under the sky. So therefore if you want to love God then you must accept God is a person; otherwise there is no question of love. Therefore for the Māyāvādī philosopher there is no question of love. They merge. They want sāyujya-mukti, to become one. They have no other conception, because they cannot conceive personal God. So there is no love. Therefore they manufacture an idea that in the material condition of life, you just imagine any form of God and love Him, and ultimately you become one. That is their philosophy. Ultimately you throw away this... The example is given that you want to rise on some top floor you take a ladder and go to the top and throw away the ladder: there is no need of this ladder, now you have come to the position. So their theory is that because you cannot love or worship something impersonal, because it is difficult, it is troublesome... It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, kleśa adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām: those who are attached to impersonal deities, their progress in spiritual life is very troublesome because they never fix up. So in order to give them some facility, they say that "You imagine some form of the Absolute Truth, and when you are perfect, then throw away that form. You become one." This is their philosophy. But if God is God, then how I can throw Him? That means while they are thinking of God, that is not God. And they say it is imagination. Then what is the value of imagination if it is not reality? So how by imagination, by kalpana, by taking something false, you can reach the reality? That is the defect of their philosophy. If you take it something wrong, how you can reach the reality? Your process is wrong, because you are accepting something wrong: imagination, imagination.
Prabhupāda: It is not obscure. It is, everything is obscure to the foolish person. So he is a foolish person. He does not know what is God. How he will know what is religion? Our definition of religion is "the order given by God." But if I do not know what is God, then how can I take His order? That is the defect.
Hayagrīva: In the same letter he writes, "I am entirely incapable of considering the survival of the personality after death, even as a mere scientific possibility. I think therefore, it is better if I continue confining myself to psychoanalysis."
Prabhupāda: What is that psy...? He is deficient in psychoanalysis also, because he is practically seeing in his daily life that a child is growing to become a boy, a boy is growing to a young man, but the body is changing and the soul is there. So if he has no sense to understand this, what kind of psychoanalysis he is? The body of the child is finished, then he accepts another body, boy. So how you can deny it? You say it has grown. I say that it is finished.
Prabhupāda: No, that is..., he is not... That is the defect. He does not know perfectly anything, and he is philosophizing. That is the defect. Not only in him—I find these all mental speculators, that is the defect. Everything is possible, but our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is different from his imagination. Our philosophy is that so long one has the sex inclination, he will have to accept a material body. And as soon as he accepts a material body, he becomes implicated in so many miserable condition of material existence. But there is another life, which is not material, that is spiritual. If one is trained up to accept that spiritual life, there will be no more botheration of this material existence. That he does not know, neither he can understand. But there is such thing. That can be found in the Vedic civilization, not this meat-eating civilization. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: First of all, he does not know what is religion. That is the defect in him. We say religion means the order given by God. Simple thing. But he has no conception of God. How he can get orders from God? Therefore how he can understand what is religion? He has got some ideas of fictitious religion, which is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaitava, cheating. Cheating religion. That is not religion. Religion means, just like law. Law means the order given by the government. You cannot manufacture law at your home. That is not... Similarly, if somebody manufactures law at home and says that "I have manufactured one law. You take it," so who, what sane man will accept that law? "Sir, you keep your law in your pocket." Similarly, this so-called religious system, which is not given by God, that is just like outlaws. They are not religion. He has simply studied which is not religion. That is his defect. Real religion is the law given by God. So he has no conception of God, how he can understand what is religion? He has studied only pseudoreligion, cheating religion; therefore he is dissatisfied.
Prabhupāda: Well first of all, these men do not know what is religion. That is the defeat. That is their defect, either Marx or Freud of so many so-called philosophers, they do not know what is religion. They have to learn what is religion. Without knowing what is religion, why they are talking of religion and God? They have no knowledge about.
Hayagrīva: He says, "The believer will not let his faith be taken from him, neither by argument nor by prohibitions, and even if it did succeed with some, it would be a cruel thing to do."
Prabhupāda: No. Anything, artificial teaching, that is cruelty. So that is being done by Mr. Freud also. Artificially he is stressing on sex and death and so on, so on, but that is not life. Real life is that to understand the simple truth. Just like..., who was protesting against father conception? That Mr. John, so and so?
Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Everything has its purpose. Without purpose, nothing is created. And there is a supreme cause. So they have no brain to go farther. That is their defect. So what they superficially see, they take it. They do not find out the farther cause. That is less intelligent. Many modern scientists also say that simply explain "It is nature, nature." But we do not believe in such theory. We understand that the background of nature is God. Nature is not independent. Nature is phenomena; but the noumena is God, Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the phenomena and the noumena are the same. Phenomena are noumena. There is no separation.
Prabhupāda: How matter can take shape? That is not philosophy, that is childish. That is the defect of the modern civilization. A man has got childish knowledge and he is becoming philosopher.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the cause-effect relationship between things has very little effect on genuine events which can cause reality.
Prabhupāda: No. There must be cause and effect.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says there is cause and effect, but these have little effect on the main events that comprise reality.
Prabhupāda: How you have to take that knowledge from the superior? He gives us the key: sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). Vedānta is searching out what is Brahman. Brahman means the original source of everything. (break) ...mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8). So those who are vidhā, actually learned, they know that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme source of everything; therefore we should offer our obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. This is actually knowledge. And one who does not know how to (indistinct) the supreme, but suppose blindly he accepts, "Kṛṣṇa is supreme," he also derives (indistinct). Just like fire: either with scientific knowledge you touch, or without any knowledge you touch, the fire will act. Similarly, Krsna is the supreme. Either you study scientifically or not study, He is supreme. So somehow or other, if one goes to supreme he becomes purified. That is, that is the defect of the modern man.
Prabhupāda: So that program is already there. But if you create your own program, you do not follow the standard program. That is the defect.
Śyāmasundara: This program, because Skinner himself believes in Judeo-Christian ethics combined with a scientific tradition. But he fails to answer how it is possible to accept those ethics without accepting something like an inner person with an autonomous concept. In other words, he says we can program society to be good to your neighbor, to love one another, to be honest, upright, like that. But he is still not sure how it would be possible without accepting a free will.
Prabhupāda: So that program is already there. But if you create your own program, you do not follow the standard program. That is the defect.
Śyāmasundara: This program, because Skinner himself believes in Judeo-Christian ethics combined with a scientific tradition. But he fails to answer how it is possible to accept those ethics without accepting something like an inner person with an autonomous concept. In other words, he says we can program society to be good to your neighbor, to love one another, to be honest, upright, like that. But he is still not sure how it would be possible without accepting a free will.
Prabhupāda: The defect is that these programs are being forwarded by some rascal. Therefore they are defective. If they would have been forwarded by perfect man, then you would have actual (indistinct). Now one rascal is forwarding some program, another rascal next time (indistinct) this is true. So this is going on in Western world. Because according to Bhāgavata we belong to the category of dogs, hogs, camels. So what is the benefit of a dog's program and (indistinct) by camel's program. If they are on the, basically there is nothing but dogs, hogs, camels and asses, then suppose dog has given some program and the camel says, "No.
Prabhupāda: This program is better than this one." And the ass comes, he introduces another program, "This program is better than this program." So either of these programs, because they are made by dogs, hogs, asses and camels, they cannot be perfect. Take a program from a real human being. Then it is perfect. The defect is there. One philosopher is proposing something, another philosopher is proposing something... That is (indistinct) especially in the Western countries, they are doing so independence (?). But the Vedic civilization there is no independence. They must follow the Vedic injunction. As I have said several times, the Vedas says that the stool of cow is completely pure. They do not argue that "Formerly you say that the stool of animal is impure. Now you are saying that the stool of animal, cow, is pure. So how can we accept?" There is no such thing. The Vedas says, even it is stool, but the Vedas says the stool of cow is perfectly pure.
Prabhupāda: That is not (indistinct). A new way we cannot. If you want perfection, you must take to Vedic culture, because it is not with the four defects of human beings. Anything introduced for... Just like we are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and some of the students are falling back. How (indistinct)? That is not the defect of the institution. That is some other power. So people might have fallen from the standard of Vedic culture, but they cannot invent any new one. That is it.
Devotee: That is the same thing we say about the scientific process. The scientific process isn't imperfect, it is just the masters who are imperfect. They claim that the empiric process is perfect. We have not developed it to perfection.
Devotee: Impelled. Because (indistinct) as a human being. He has a tendency because of the four defects of a human being.
Prabhupāda: Then the question arises, how to rectify these defects?
Śyāmasundara: He says by changing the social environment. By changing the social environment.
Prabhupāda: But he cannot do.
Devotee: But in my experience changing the social environment...
Prabhupāda: The social environment is already there, but still you will be punished.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. That is the difficulty, that these people are coming as philosophers teaching. Rascals. That is the difficulty with the present society. (indistinct) Dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. They are taking the position of teacher. That is the defect. We don't take (indistinct) like that. Dogs, hogs, we cannot accept.
Śyāmasundara: They are making life into an equation, like a mathematical formula. Competing like that. But it doesn't work.
Prabhupāda: It will not work.
Devotee: It says he has a seventy-percent turnover. That means that people get disgusted and leave, seventy percent of them every year.
Prabhupāda: Leave? Why?
Prabhupāda: That's all... They are simply by-products, simply by-products. But you do not know the reality. If you speak of reality, if you are satisfied only the by-product of the reality, then that is a different thing. But when you speak of reality it does not mean, because it appeals to your senses, therefore it is reality, because your senses are imperfect. You cannot realize anything perfectly with these defective senses.
Śyāmasundara: He says that if there is anything beyond the appearances, physical world, it is also physical, that everything is physical, everything is material.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Physical... Even physical, you do not know. Even this physical manifestation of this universe, what do you know about this? You do not know. There are so many planets. You cannot go even in the moon planet.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of separation, that if we accept God as the supreme father. Now the Christian religion believes God as the supreme father. So if the supreme father is there, and if we become obedient to the supreme father, then why, where is the difference of opinion? But we do not know the supreme father and we do not obey the supreme father. That is the cause of dissension. The son's duty is to become obedient to the father and enjoy father's property. So if we know the supreme father, and if we live according to the father's order, so there is question of antagonism, dissension. It is all our own, father being the center. That, the difficulty is that we call supreme father but we do not accept the father's order or what is the order of the supreme father. That is the defect.
Prabhupāda: No, that is impossible. God means, as I have explained, the supreme father. He is the father of every man or every living entity. So how the father can be different? If man manufactures a different... There are ten sons in the family; the father is one. It is not that one son say, "No, I shall select my own father." So what kind of father he is? So that is imperfectness of understanding the father. Nobody can say that "I can select my own father." How it is possible? Father is one. Similarly God is one, and if one is actually religious and obeying the same one father's order, then where is dissension? That the difficulty is nobody knows who is that supreme father, neither they are prepared to obey the orders of the father. That is the difficulty. In one family there cannot be two father. The one father. Similarly, when you speak of the supreme father, "O father, give us our daily bread," He is father of everyone. So why one should select one father, another man will select another father? That means he does not know who is father. That is the defect.
Hayagrīva: Well he was hoping that this process would eventually lead to the total dissolution of religion.
Prabhupāda: So dissolution of religion means animalism. That has happened actually, because one does not know what is God, soon there is misunderstanding of religion. Therefore if he, actually anyone is serious about religion, then they should sit down together, that "We call God as supreme father, then why should we fight ourselves? Let us obey the order of the supreme father." Then there is no dissension. But they do not do that, neither they know who is the supreme father. That is the defect.
Hayagrīva: You have been to Communist Russia, and was there any church worship? The Eastern Orthodox church used to be the standard Russian religion. Is there any church worship in Russia today?
Prabhupāda: Purpose of the universe is already there, but you have to know it through proper channels. But if you speculate then you will be misled. That's all. They want to speculate, that is their defect.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the world, he calls it the stuff of duty, the world is made up of the stuff of duty.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Stuff of duty, because duty means you are abiding by the superior order, that is duty. So we accept Vedas, the superior order. When it is stated, order in the Vedas, then we accept. That example we have given several times, if the Veda says that cow dung is pure. Once it is said that any stool of animal is impure. Then Veda says, "No, cowdung is pure." So you cannot argue that once you said that stool of animal is impure, how you say that cowdung is pure? You cannot contradict. You will have to accept it because it is order of the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: He may reject, but God is everything. How he can reject God? The, the, these are the defects of speculators. They cannot give us tangible leading. That because they are defective themselves, so whatever interpretation they will give, all defective.
Hayagrīva: Oh, he would agree that God is everything.
Prabhupāda: That God is..., how he can reject? If God is everything, then how can he reject?
Hayagrīva: But he would not say that God is more than the creation.
Prabhupāda: So how everything He can create? You cannot create the Pacific Ocean, but Pacific Ocean is God. So you are limited, why you are trying to create God? God is already there. Everything is God. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4). Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. How he can reject God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that, uh, He says that everything has got some defect, material. Even the fire, so powerful, so fire has also some defect: the smoke. So apart from that imperfection, if we execute our prescribed duties exactly in the way as it is enjoined in the śāstra, that even there is some defect, still we can get perfection. Just like Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving chance, everyone, to become perfect by his own work. It doesn't matter brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or what means according to Vedic civilization, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So brāhmaṇa is giving knowledge, kṣatriya is giving protection, vaiśya is giving food, and śūdra is general help to everyone. So if the whole thing is done under the direction of the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya executes the orders of the brāhmaṇa, and the vaiśyas supply food—because food is required, that is materially required—then everything is perfect. (break) (aside with Hari-śauri regarding tape recorder)
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is absolute spirit, there is no doubt upon it, but why He should come to know Himself through material world? That is defective.
Hayagrīva: Aristotle's God contemplates Himself. He does not have any knowledge of the world...
Prabhupāda: Who?
Hayagrīva: ...as such.
Prabhupāda: Who has no knowledge?
Hayagrīva: God.
Hayagrīva: Concerning theology and philosophy, Aquinas writes, "Just as sacred doctrine is based on the light of faith, so is philosophy founded on the natural light of reason. Hence it is impossible for items that belong to philosophy to be contrary to those that pertain to faith, but the former may be defective." That is, philosophy may be defective in comparison with, with the latter, theology, which is based on faith. "If any point among the statements of the philosophers is found contrary to faith, this is not philosophy but rather an abuse of philosophy resulting from a defect in reasoning."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we say, that every man is defective on account of his material condition of life. So philosophy coming from such defect persons cannot be any good for the human society. Philosophy coming from a person who is in contact with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is perfect. That will benefit human society.
Prabhupāda: Language is not the important. The education is important. A developed human being can take real education, while the animals are not able to take. That you can define. It is not the question of language. Knowledge can be imparted, in particular knowledge, a language, just like we are imparting Vedic knowledge in English. So it is not the language, it is the knowledge. But the animals cannot take the knowledge of God. That is their defective. But a human form of body or a human being, it doesn't matter in what language he speaks, but if the knowledge of God is properly imparted in him, then he can understand. The dog cannot understand. That is the difference.
Hayagrīva: Huxley, although an evolutionist, and although he was called Darwin's bulldog, he differed with Darwin, especially on the theory of the survival of the fittest. He believed in the survival of those who are ethically the best.
Prabhupāda: Then that does not mean that the ātmā becomes the paramātmā. Just like a drop of water, you put into the sea, it mixes with the sea. It is not mixing. Now suppose it is mixing, but that does not mean that the drop of water has become the sea. He is mixed with the seawater, but that, that does not mean he is the sea. He was not sea before, and after dropping him in the sea, he remains as what he was, but he is mixed up in the sea. Just like an airplane is flying, you see, and going higher and higher, and going very high you do not see. That doesn't mean the airplane is lost. You do not see. So these Sankarites' proposal is defective. Just like a green bird enters a tree but you do not see the bird anymore. You simply foolishly think that he has become one with the tree. But that is foolishness. He keeps his individuality, but your defective eyes cannot see him anymore. The Sankarite theory is like that, a defective understanding, that the individual soul merges into the Supreme. He keeps always his individuality. The foolish man cannot see how he has merged or existing.
Prabhupāda: That is his defect. The nature is dead body, matter. So how it can be rational? Just like this table is a dead wood. How it can be rational? That is nonsense. The carpenter is rational, who has made the wood in the shape. So he says the nature is rational. Nature is dead matter. How it can be rational? Therefore there is a rational being behind the nature. That is God. This, the wood, is dead. The wood, out of its own accord, cannot become a table. The carpenter is shaping the wood into table. That is rational. Therefore behind the dead nature, the rational being is God. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. I think Mr. Huxley is supposed to have read..., understand he has given some comment on the Ramakrishna Mission Bhagavad-gītā, but he has not studied Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly.
Hayagrīva: He sees God's... (break) Alexander sees God's Deity as being different from others in that it is infinite... (break) This is the continuation of Alexander that was interrupted due to the defective tape. A God..., uh, Alexander considers God's Deity as differing from that of others in being infinite, and he says, "God's body..."
Prabhupāda: This, this, this sense should be explained. Because God is infinite, He has infinite Deities also. That is infiniteness. He is presented as Deity; that is infinitely of varieties. That is infiniteness. Why he is sticking to one Deity? That is his not understanding the meaning of what is infinite. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Ananta-rūpam: He has Deity infinitely. That is infinity. Because He is infinite, He has no Deity—that is not real conception. He is infinite and He has got infinite Deity forms.
Hayagrīva: Now he analyzes theism, which is the personal aspect, and pantheism, the impersonal aspect, and he finds both defective in themselves, and so what is his position? This is his position: "If the question is asked whether the speculative conception of God or Deity which has been advanced here as part of the empirical treatment of space/time, and has appeared to be verified by religious experience belongs to theism or pantheism, the answer must be that it is not strictly referable to either of them. Taken by itself..."
Prabhupāda: That is his mistake. As you have explained that the sky is also with reference to God... The sky is explained as the heart of God, and the water is explained as the semina of God, the moon is explained as the mind of God, the sun is explained as the eyes of God, the land is explained as the foot of God. So everything is with reference to God. So for a person who understands God, there is nothing existing without God. So how God can be separate?
Hayagrīva: Skinner believes in what he calls reinforcement, reinforcing people's behavior. He doesn't believe in punishing people when they do wrong, but he believes more in a system of rewards. He writes, "A government may prevent defection by making life more interesting, by providing bread and circuses, and by encouraging sports, gambling, the use of alcohol and other drugs, and various kinds of sexual behavior, where the effect is to keep people within reach of aversive sanctions." So he...
Prabhupāda: He recommends these things?
| Page Title: | Defect (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 06 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=132, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 132 |