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Cross (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yoga is a very broad term. Yoga means to connect with the Absolute Truth. That is yoga. Yoga means connecting link. So there are different varieties of yoga. Just like one staircase, it is the connecting link to the top floor. So that is, everywhere you can say staircase, but one who has crossed a few steps and one who has crossed a few floors, they are not on the same level.

Interviewer: I'd like to read one thing. This is evidently said by a man named Swami Śiva Premānada of New York's yoga center. He said, "If one has the time to put in about eight or ten hours a day for ten years, one might develop the power to see through a wall through meditation. I've seen people develop X-ray vision, but I've never seen the point of paying such a heavy price for it."

Prabhupāda: But I don't think it is practical that one can meditate for eight to ten hours or twelve hours.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Janārdana: It is a three story house. It is about the size of one of these houses here, not the apartment houses but...

Prabhupāda: That, some cross?

Janārdana: Yes, there's a cross there.

Prabhupāda: Pastor, it is written pastor?

Janārdana: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That's small building.

Janārdana: That is small?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen it.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Never, never, never. That is his insanity, another. As soon as he thinks that "I am independent," that is another insanity. He is under control. Just like the same man. He is thinking, "I don't care for state laws." He is insane. He will be forced to accept state laws in the prison house by the police. But he thinks, "Oh, I am free man." Still... He is slapped by the police. He says, "Oh, I am independent. Go on slapping." This is insanity. Is it not insanity? The police slaps him, and he says, "I am independent." Do you think independence? So that sort of independence we are having. We are kicked by māyā always, and we are thinking, "independent." This is insanity. He does not think, "Why I am independent? I am servant of my senses. I cannot remain, enjoying senses, for an hour, and I am thinking I am independent." That means insane. He cannot think properly. Where is his independence? Cannot be independent. He is born dependent because part and parcel of God. His constitutional position is dependent. Just like child. A child declares independence. What is the meaning of that independence? Danger. That's all. Simply inviting dangers. A child wants: "Oh, I don't care for my parents. I shall cross the road.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, in his previous life, he elevated himself to the loving stage of Kṛṣṇa. Not exactly, just previous, bhāva. It is called bhāva, ecstasy. But some way or other, he could not finish, so according to the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, he was given birth to a nice brāhmaṇa family. (aside:) You can call that Bengali lady. She can hear. So very rich. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41), in that way. Rich family, at the same time, brāhmaṇa family. But richness, generally, sometimes glide down to wine, women, and intoxication. So by bad company he became woman-hunter, prostitute-hunter. So he was too much addicted to one woman, Cintāmaṇi. So his father died, and he was... He did not marry. In your country it is called girlfriend, and in our country it is called prostitute. So he was that about that prostitute, Cintāmaṇi. So he was performing the rituals, but he was thinking of his girlfriend, that Cintāmaṇi, "When I shall go there?" Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura? Yes. So he asked his servants, "Give me some food. I shall go to Cintāmaṇi." So anyway, he performed... Did not perform. His mind was there. He took some nice foodstuff, and when he went, there was a big river, and it was raining heavily, and the river was flooded. So he thought, "How shall I go the other side?" So one dead body was floating. So he thought, "It is a log," and he took the help of the log and went the other side. And it was heavy raining. And then, when he reached that Cintāmaṇi's home, he saw the door is locked already. Blocked. So he jumped over the wall, taking the tail of a serpent, and when he reached inside, he knocked the door, and Cintāmaṇi was astonished. "How did you come? So heavy rain. You had to cross the river."

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Ah, yes. Now parable is better than analogy. An analogy is an intellectual thing whereas a parable is a human thing. It's a warmth thing. It's in three dimensions, not a cross-section. And He was, of course, awfully clever at choosing them.

Mensa Member: I don't think your friend, Christmas Humphries will agree with either of those statements.

Dr. Weir: Knowing him very well, I don't... One would be surprised (indistinct) perfectly happy to feel that I was disagreeing with him. I think he (indistinct) himself to Kṛṣṇa at times.

Mensa Member: Well, is that absolutely (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: The Buddhist thinks that everyone is God.

Prabhupāda: In Buddhist theory there is no acceptance of God. There is simply to diminish, or to nullify the sense of pains and pleasures. That is called nirvāṇa.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Oh, bridge we are not going to cross? All right.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Every time they find something new they should be glorifying Krsna.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Krsna consciousness.

Devotee (2): (aside) What's in there?

Devotee (1): Peaches.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's all there.

Devotee (1): These are all peach trees.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You have made this nice park, but with the help of God, who has created all these trees. You cannot do that. This means that you try to help or cooperate with God, then your credit is all right. Just like God has created this tree, and you are cooperating to make it nicely trimmed, make this path, this is cooperation. You take this much credit. But the first credit given to God, who has created this tree.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: "All of them—as they surrender unto Me—I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pṛthā." God is everything, and we can associate with Him according to our choice. The ability to choose, or our conscience, is given to us in the human form so we can utilize it. All the ingredients are there. The spiritual master is there, the scripture is there, and God is there, within you and within me. The atmosphere is calm and quiet, we have a good boat and a good navigator, and the wind is blowing favorably. We should take our chance and cross the ocean. This human body is a very nice boat, and we have a very good navigator, the spiritual master. We also have a very favorable wind—the instructions of God. If we don't take this opportunity and solve the problems of life, we are cutting our own throat. If you cut your own throat, who can save you? We can say, "Now here is an opportunity. Take it and be saved from birth, old age, disease and death," but if you don't take advantage, what can we do?
Morning Walk -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Indian: This is an old place, Vṛndāvana. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu came here and sat under this tree nearly five hundred years back. He sat under this tree and meditated: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, until midday. Several days He chanted His name and came here and sat. This tree is the old tree of Dvāpara-yuga. Under this tree, Rādhikā and Kṛṣṇa both met once. This is written in Param-Gita(?) For this reason Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu came here with this reason. He came here and sat under this tree and recited the name Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. When He sat here once, one Vaiṣṇava, name Kṛṣṇadāsa, name Kṛṣṇadāsa, he saw, at night, he dreamt of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and became mad to see Him, and he crossed the Yamunā River, Keśīghāṭa, and gradually came here and saw the glorious silhouette of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he made his obeisance to His feet, and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu touch him, and he became mad with Kṛṣṇa-prema, and then Mahāprabhu, from this place, Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu came, went to Rādhā-kuṇḍa, but displayed the name of this before that time.

Prabhupāda: He went to Rādhā-kuṇḍa?

Indian: Rādhā-kuṇḍa. He went there and asked the old gentlemen of that place that "Where is Rādhā-kuṇḍa and Śyāma-kuṇḍa?" But none of them (indistinct) Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, discovery of Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: This sky(?), they are making like Calcutta Esplanade. (indistinct) Victoria Memorial, you don't remember?

Devotee (2): I've only been three days (indistinct) Śrīla Prabhupāda, before we left India.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You were mostly in Bombay.

Devotee (2): Yes. (break)

Devotee (3): Yes. "Mata" means "eye" and they use "hari" to mean "day". "hari" means "day" here and eye is mata, so they say it's the eye of day.

Prabhupāda: There is Sanskrit words like that. Divākara, divākara, sun's name, divākara. Divā means day and kara means manufacturer. Divākara, manufacturer of day, another name of sun. Cross here?

Devotee (3): Yes. (indistinct) That's all right. We'll watch. No problem. (break)

Prabhupāda: It is our car. (break) (in car:) (indistinct) should be noted, not (indistinct) (end)

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: What is your age now?

Guest (1): Seventy-two. I like the ship, so old man prefers cheaper trip than air, (indistinct) so I take air from Indonesia (indistinct) only and take ship to Alexandria. (indistinct) From Alexandria to Morocco I take (indistinct) bus, big bus like Union Pacific before from east side the west side America, we take big bus (indistinct) four days only I arrive at (indistinct) Morocco. And maybe I cross to Andalusia, Spain, not near Madrid, Castillian (indistinct) again take ship from (indistinct) railway from Manchester to (indistinct) So still seven years I loitering. And this only to see old friend in Edinburgh, and I see old, old man (indistinct) I am also old man, not so long time, within one year I down, I never been South America, only up to Mexico so I go to (indistinct). And stay, I contracted only one contract three years but I want to work, job, one year, highest salary there so and finish I go to Argentina from Santiago Chile I take the ship again to, Sydney, my younger brother, Sydney and go back from (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: In Sydney also we have got temple.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi started the movement from Africa. South Africa.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gandhi was attempted to be killed in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. One time he was crossing the street and the man beaten him so severely. He could have died. One Englishman saved him. He was attempted to be killed. After this incidence, when Gandhi returned to India, he became leader automatically. (pause) When Dr. Kalidasa-nama...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kalidasa?

Prabhupāda: Dr. Kalidasa-nama. Did you hear his name?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Only just now.

Prabhupāda: He was our professor. So he was explaining the different ages of archaeologist, anthropology.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, history.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: Surfing?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because I do not know how to do it. Therefore it is mystic power. But the boy is going like this. (pause) Just like one of the yogīs, she (he) walked over the river, crossed. So another old man said: "Oh this is only two paisā worth." Why? "I will pay two paisā to this boatman. He will cross me there." But to attain that power, he had to spend so many years for practicing. This is waste of time. If you can do it by paying two paisā or one ānā to a boatman to cross the river, why should you for ten years or fifteen years practice this yoga, just to show a magic?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda, I remember an incident in Bombay. That was when I was in Calcutta about, a few years ago. There was a yogī. There was advertisement that he was going to walk on water.

Prabhupāda: No, that is possible.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Skyscraper building in temple shape, with four divisions. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī-maheśa... (Bs. 5.43). So Maheśa-dhāma, how it will be depicted? Pārvatī-wise. (?)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It has been already described by Sanātana Gosvāmī in Bṛhad-Bhāgavatāmṛtam. After crossing Brahmaloka,

Prabhupāda: There is Maheśa-dhāma, in between.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Maheśa-dhāma. And the devotee, Śiva is devotee.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is... Śiva's devotional prayer is there in Fourth Canto, about the four sons. What are those?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Devī-dhāma. Virajā to virajā, nirviśeṣa. The last conception or the highest conception of Devī-dhāma is what are the conception of virajā; prakṛti ends there... Then begins...

Prabhupāda: Kāraṇa, kāraṇārṇava.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Effulgence. Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Spiritual world. And that is also some, some, somewhat nirviśeṣa. And then, after crossing that, the Śiva is on the other, higher side or he is in lower side. That is differentiation...

Prabhupāda: Śiva is...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Differentiation on two sides is Śiva. This side also, Master of Devī, and this side also. He is searching after something and when the differentiated world ends in Brahmaloka, there also Śiva is devotee. This side, Śiva is a yogī. He's searching after. And then, there, he's going to meet Nārāyaṇa, to face (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Both sides, he's a devotee.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: How within five or six years...?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali) The intellectual barrier has been crossed and from there, it is being extended to this mundane world of ours. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: One intelligent boy, you have heard his name, George Harrison, he's one of the greatest musicians at the present moment, of the world. I think so, eh?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: George Harrison. So he's becoming, he's very intelligent, so he's becoming interested. Now recently he has given us a house in London which is fifty-five lakhs.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Crossing by ferry, one hour. Then waiting for bus, another hour. Then going to the office. Then after office, they're coming back. Again going. Whole day, they're dependent on everything. That is the condition in New York. It is to be supposed: the most advanced city. The same thing is everywhere. People are becoming dependent, śūdra, just like dogs. A dog, unless he gets a nice master, he's not happy. So at the present moment, all the population, just like the cats and dogs, they're dependent. They are not intelligent. Intelligence means he must be independent. That is intelligence. And people are struggling for independence. That is their motive. Everyone is struggling hard for independence. Because that is the culmination of intelligence. So our problem is that we do not know what we are. Neither we know how to get out of the miserable condition of life. Therefore we have no intelligence. We are like cats and dogs. This is the conclusion. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Pradyumna:

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti te
(BG 7.14)

"This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome, but those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."

Prabhupāda: So this thing we are teaching, how to get out of the control of the three modes of material nature, to put him into the transcendental platform. That is the success of life. And this chance is obtainable in the human form of life. If he misses this chance, again he becomes, suppose, a tree, or a cat, or a dog... There is every chance. Because it is under the control of material nature; according to my work and mentality, I'll get another body.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:
Yogeśvara: (break) ...is studying the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the evolution, when our consciousness is in agreement with the supreme consciousness. (break) That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yogeśvara: He says that the Rosicrucian order is a mystical and philosophical order that allows its students... Prabhupāda: Who is Rosin? He is a philosopher? Yogeśvara: He says that the term Rosicrucian means, it's an image of a cross with a rose in the center. It means that the disciple is aspiring towards the perfection of his consciousness and that this also means the perfection of consciousness. Prabhupāda: So what is the ideal of that perfection of consciousness? Yogeśvara: He says it is love. Prabhupāda: Love, that's nice. Very good. So the supreme consciousness and our individual consciousness, when they are in exchange of love, that is perfection.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "New frontier of knowledge."

Prabhupāda: Yes, because the new frontier of knowledge for the rascals not for the intelligent men. They're... The same example. If somebody imitates barking of the dog, if he says, "This is new frontier of knowledge," so a foolish man can believe that "How you have learned to bark like dog! Oh, great advancement." But an intelligent man says "What is the use of this barking, imitation barking? There is already dogs who are barking." Just like there is a... It is a fact, not story. One man, he went out of his village, and after ten years, he came back, advertised himself that "I have become successful in yoga practice." So naturally villagers surrounded him. "Oh, you have...? What yoga practice you have learned?" "I can walk on the water." "Oh?" Actually, even at the present moment, if somebody comes and says, "I can walk...," many people will come, thousands of men. So when everything, arrangement was that he'll cross the river, walking on the water, one old man came. He said, "Sir, it is very wonderful, but it is two paise worth. Two paise worth."

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There is no crisis. They have created the crisis, the rascals.

Karandhara: Prabhupāda, we will have to cross over to here to get back.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Karandhara: Walk down here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right. They say, "Conservation of energy." So why there is crisis? Find out the reservoir and find out the energy. That is the scientific theory, "conservation of energy." Find out where the energy comes from. When it is finished, so I ask, "Just go to the kitchen. Find out some more to eat." So that is the source of energy. You find out the source of energy. Then there is no crisis. (laughter) But the rascals they do not know where the puri is being made. He is going to the privy. (laughter) "Might be puri here." That is their mistake. He does not know the puri is being supplied from the kitchen, not from the latrine. That is their mistake. Instead of going to the kitchen they are going to the latrine. Their advancement of knowledge is up to latrine. That's all. That is the Vedānta information. The conservation of energy if first explained in the Bhāgavata: janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), that here is... (break) (end)

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 16, 1974, Hawaii:

Satsvarūpa: There was also a telegram from Bhūrijana in Hong Kong.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Satsvarūpa: And he's fully prepared for us to come and he's hoping that we'll come.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, then prepare that. So by the twenty-eighth?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, we'll inform him.

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We shall cross here or there?

Bali Mardana: The car is over here. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 9, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: On the other side of (indistinct). I think it crosses...

Prabhupāda: In USA.... (break)

Guru dāsa: Even car, the roads are so big.

Prabhupāda: Ah, bus service is all right? So transportation for the USA. Take Greyhound. (Hindi) (break)

Guest (1) (Indian man): I don't think these people have seen the car here, have you?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: Have you seen the car?

Prabhupāda: I think it is now obsolete.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tell me.

Dr. Kapoor: One you see I was going from Kanpur(?) to Benares, with (indistinct) in the same car, and when I went on a crossing a badly loaded truck, you see...

Prabhupāda: Oh, so...

Dr. Kapoor: ...struck against our car, you see, and the car bounced, it jumped. It's about four or five feet from the ground, and it fell upside down, and there was not a scratch, I tell you. Not one of us was hurt. Not one of us. And a camel on the roadside, so he and one passenger, they were both killed.

Prabhupāda: Killed?

Dr. Kapoor: Killed. I think (indistinct) to us.

Guest: At that time you remembered Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa, at that time. He remembers Śrī Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān.

Dr. Kapoor: Baba, I did not (indistinct) (laughter).

Prabhupāda: He remembers Kṛṣṇa always.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He came in India and...

Dr. Patel: Lived somewhere in Kashmir. That is what I have in article. He lived for a very long time after crucifixion. In crucifixion he went in great samādhi, and when the cross was brought down, he came out of samādhi after three days. That is the resurrection.

Prabhupāda: He was... Yes.

Dr. Patel: And then he was brought back by his disciples to India.

Prabhupāda: That is quite possible.

Dr. Patel: There is a big community called Issans(?) and Issans are somewhere in between Tigris and that Doab(?), you know, Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. From there he migrated to the Palestine area and preached those fellows all the philosophy that he learned in India. That is... That man has said. So I consider Christianity is a part of..., one of the pañca, of Hindu... of the...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Christianity is Vaiṣṇavism.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Guest (1): Worship should go on.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we have temporary situated mandira in the same building. We cannot stop our worship. That is not possible. Because one cannot go upon the mandira, because the Lord is now being worshiped within the residence, it does not mean we can stop His worship. Worship must continue in any condition, apratihatā, without being impeded by any rules and regulations. This is called rāga-mārga. Vidhi-mārga, and there is rāga-mārga. Vidhi-mārga means under rules and regulations, and rāga-mārga means out of love. That is another thing. There is another instance. Govinda was personal servant of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So after His dinner, Govinda used to give Him massage on the leg. So one day Caitanya Mahāprabhu fell down on the ground and began to sleep on the door. So Govinda was to give massage to His leg. So he crossed Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and began to...

Guest (1): Walk.

Prabhupāda: No, not walk. Giving massage. So He was sleeping. So at two or three o'clock when Caitanya, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu became awake: "Govinda, you are sitting here. You have not taken your dinner?" "No, sir." "Why?" "Now, how could I cross you and take my dinner?" "Then how you came?" "No, that is for Your massaging. (laughter) But I cannot cross You for my dinner."

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Guest (1): Walk.

Prabhupāda: No, not walk. Giving massage. So He was sleeping. So at two or three o'clock when Caitanya, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu became awake: "Govinda, you are sitting here. You have not taken your dinner?" "No, sir." "Why?" "Now, how could I cross you and take my dinner?" "Then how you came?" "No, that is for Your massaging. (laughter) But I cannot cross You for my dinner."

Guest (1): Yes. "For You I can cross."

Prabhupāda: For You, I can do anything.

Guest (1): For You...

Prabhupāda: For Your service.

Guest (1): For your service.

Prabhupāda: But for my sense gratification, I cannot do that.

Guest (1): Very good answer.

Prabhupāda: In a, in the Western countries, I had to sometimes do something which I should not have done. But I've done it to bring so many souls to Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They are the (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhava-bhūti: Also, Prabhupāda, there was one report that the Red Cross, seventy-five percent of the money collected went on advertising.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Dr. Patel: America is living on advertisement. Right or wrong? I have been studying American, I mean, psychology.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I understand.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...them, the form is meant for killing them, chastising them. Therefore dangerous. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So for the nondevotees the form is very dangerous. Sadā paśyanti yoginaḥ. Yogis, they concentrate their mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is real yoga. (break) ...boat, he crossed over.

samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ
mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ
bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām
(SB 10.14.58)
This is the process.

Mahāṁsa: This śloka is... Where is that śloka, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: It is in the Tenth Canto. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. Just like this ocean, if it becomes a small pit, then don't require a big ship to cross over. You just... Like this. It can be reduced. By Kṛṣṇa's desire, it can be done so. Just like at the present moment... Formerly, people used to go to London from India, from Bombay, at least, in fifteen days. Now it doesn't take even fifteen hours. It takes only nine hours. How it has been reduced? Because there is a process to reduce. Similarly, the supreme spiritual process is like that. It can be reduced to any quantity. Aṇi... This is called aṇimā-siddhi.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why, why, why? This is very dangerous. If I know that "I am blind," why should I ask other blind man, "All right you come behind me. I shall cross you the ocean." Why this cheating? You say that "I am blind man. You are also blind man. So I cannot guide you." That is sincerity. That is sincere. (break) ...very much bewildered all over the world due to this rascal philosophy, that a blind man leading other blind men. So they should be delivered from this gross ignorance. (break) ...say that we have got eyes, but we are being led by Kṛṣṇa, who has got real eyes. Therefore we are safe.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: At that time, you were there?

Monsignor Verrozano: In January.

Dhanañjaya: At Cross Maidan.

Monsignor Verrozano: Yes.

Dhanañjaya: That was our festival. The Bhāgavata-dharma discourses.

Bhagavān: We had a festival program in India. We've had one in Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, and for one week, and Srila Prabhupāda has spoken many times every night there. There's been thousands of people, ten thousand people.

Monsignor Verrozano: Yes, yes. And just last year about the 20th of January, it was this week of festivals also, this conscience of preaching sermons, many manifestations. Many people attended, and I too visited this, yes, also.

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta also we had such functions. About thirty thousand people were coming in Bombay.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: It is my practical experience. Śyāmasundara had to waste at least two to three hours to secure rice, fruits. Only milk and butter could we get. And then we had to wait in the... They would not allow us to cook unless they had finished. This was the difficulty. Practically I have suffered. All their claims are bogus. The people are not happy there. The young men are not allowed to go outside the country. Just see. All freedom lost. All freedom lost. It is a government of terrorism, that's all. And whatever the Communists do, simply by terrorizing that's all. They have no gentleman's method. Terrorizing. (break) ...misleading other rascals that "You come this way; you will be happy." And the rascals are being misled. They are accepting. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man is asking other blind men, "Come on, I shall cross you the street." But because he is rascal, he does not ask, "Sir, you are also blind. how will you lead us?" They cannot inquire. Or he does not know that "This man is asking me, who is willing to take the leadership, he is also blind." This blind man does not know, do not know. They do not know. This is going on.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says he hopes we excuse if he has some basic questions that he wanted to ask. And his first question was regarding tilaka. What is the symbolism, significance?

Prabhupāda: It is just like your cross, amongst Christian. It is temple of Viṣṇu. Not only here, we have got twelve place: here, here, here, here, here. Twelve place. The idea is being protected by Viṣṇu from all sides.

Swiss Man (2): (French)

Yogeśvara: The shaved head, he's asking.

Prabhupāda: This is cleanliness. Instead of keeping unnecessary hair, we keep very clean.

Swiss Man (2): (French)

Yogeśvara: These traditions have existed for a long time, he's asking.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Especially the brāhmaṇas, they keep the shaven head. Brāhmaṇas are the topmost class. What is the symptoms of brāhmaṇa, find out.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So where is the difficulty...? What is the difficulty in the position you are now, at present?

Robert Gouiran: Good question. The difficulty is that I lost the thought of this transparency by a lot of criss-crossed swords which make a sort of block, and I have very, very strong difficulties now here to feel intuitively the occult plane. And I am back in the reality...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Coming back now into the West, he feels so much difficulty to still be sensitive, to have this intuition of the spiritual plane.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He says that there are like criss-crosses, like swords blocking...

Prabhupāda: So one thing is that he's feeling difficulty in the material atmosphere of the West. Is it the fact?

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: My birthplace is in Calcutta.

Reverend Powell: Calcutta, ah. I was there many years ago, I knew...

Prabhupāda: You have been in Calcutta?

Reverend Powell: Yes, I have. I crossed from Karachi and Delhi, I went down to Agra, and I gather this...

Prabhupāda: Yes, for people coming from England to Australia, they passed through Calcutta or Bombay, like that.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: (break) ...sanctify the whole world by your footsteps. You are criss-crossing the world.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the śāstra. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni svāntaḥ-sthena gadābhṛtā. Because a pure devotee carries Kṛṣṇa within his heart, therefore wherever he goes he makes a holy place. It is said in the śāstra. So not me, but every one of you, if you are pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then wherever you'll go, that is a holy place. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni svāntaḥ... To become sannyāsī means that, that he'll be pure devotee, and wherever he will go, he will purify. That is sannyāsa means. Mahad-vicalaṁ nṛnāṁ gṛhināṁ dīna-cetasām. Mahātmās, they'll travel so that the householders, who are cripple-minded and full of sinful activities, they'll go there and make them purified. This is the idea of sannyāsa. And in the Vedic civilization a brahmacārī and a sannyāsī has open door. There is no restriction. No "Beware of dog." (laughter) But now they are prohibited. I have got practical experience. After my sannyāsa, when I was touring India, so in Ahmedabad, or Baroda, I was entering one man's house. So he was standing on the balcony. (laughter)

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee (1): "Without envy"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Brahmānanda: That was built for, the king when he was coming?

Prabhupāda: No, that was built in memory of Victoria. It was done, imitating the Taj Mahal. It took twenty years. Sir Rajendranath Mukherjee of Martin Company, he took the contract. And after finishing, he got this title, "Sir." And when it was being constructed, I went to the top by crossing the scaffolding.

Brahmānanda: So you must have been very brave.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am still brave. (laughter) Otherwise how could I come alone to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I am still brave.

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Some astrologer told that "This boy, for executing his purpose, he will enter into the fire." Yes. (break) ...recently, in our Bombay affair, it was fight with the fire. Is it not?

Brahmānanda: Yes. Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: And we have come out victorious.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Where, in the East? Yes.

Ambassador: In the East. So there's been a crossover taking place.

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Ambassador: Do you see it like that?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. In Western countries they are now fed up with this materialistic way of life. And I think it will very soon collapse, the Western way of life. And naturally the next enquiry is spiritual.

Ambassador: Yes, it's already beginning.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The material life means animal life.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So when the animal comes to higher consciousness, that is spiritual consciousness. We are combined at the present moment. We are actually spiritual, but some way or other, we have come in contact with matter, and we are covered by the material body, and... But we cannot become happy with this material interest. That's a fact. Just like the fish cannot be happy on the land. The example is: just like the other day we saw one crocodile. One or two... two, three?

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The... The money matters should be dealt with the president, secretary and the treasurer, three men. Out of three, two should sign. And GBC's business is to see that things are going on, money matters. That's all. GBC is not supposed to deal directly. He has to inspect. That's all.

Atreya Ṛṣi: So I can cross this...

Prabhupāda: Just like... But the thing is, if the GBC and the president is the same man, that is not good. That is not good. The president should be separate. So the president, treasurer and secretary, they will deal directly, and GBC should inspect book, account, that it is done very nicely. That's all. You can question, "Why you have done this?" That's nice. Otherwise, in the..., it will be difficult to manage.

Rūpānuga: Yes. We don't want to become entangled in that money.

Prabhupāda: Ah!

Rūpānuga: We don't want to become entangled in that money.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: All of a...

Śrutakīrti: We can cross right... No? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatāka Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: There is no house?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You want Prabhupāda to come...?

Prabhupāda: So why he's claiming his money? Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: He says, "Because I work for it."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But money, what is the standard of money? First of all, just discuss this. What is the standard of money throughout the whole world?

Devotee (1): Work, labor, labor.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...so eager to go into the fighting place... But still, they... That the... What this? Red Cross. They go in same spirit.

Haṁsadūta: In Ireland, the devotees go there. The Catholics and the Protestants are always fighting. But everybody likes the devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Both sides.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: They have, they... As soon as they come on the scene, they begin to become jolly.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you take advantage of this?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, we do... (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...it's no longer logical. But by the same logic...

Prabhupāda: No, it is... That is the meaning of God. Everything comes from Him, but He's self-sufficient. That is God.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is no question about oṁkāra there. Discuss on the verse. But oṁkāra is also Kṛṣṇa. Praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu (BG 7.8). Kṛṣṇa says, "I am praṇavaḥ." So oṁkāra is not different than Kṛṣṇa. But oṁkāra is pronounced by the impersonalists. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa, when He says that "I am praṇavaḥ, I am oṁkāra," then where is the objection? They foolishly say that oṁkāra is better than Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of chanting "Kṛṣṇa." That is not good. But so far we are concerned, we say there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. Other systems, Christianism or Buddhism or Mohamedanism, they have got one book, Koran, Bible, or... What is the Buddhist scripture? One book. And we have got so many, dealing with the same subject matter. So which is better? Higher mathematics, or two plus two? They should understand the gravity of this movement, my presentation of books. They haven't got so many books. Two thousand years past, the Christian religion has got only one book, Bible. And their only pastime of Christ is crucifixion. There is the cross. Therefore it has become hackneyed. People are no more interested. Neither they can explain very nicely. Neither they follow strictly whatever little information they have.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then why you are claiming that you are Christian? Just like you are having cross. That is the sign that you killed Christ. The cross is the killing symbol of Christ.

Carol: This is the resurrection symbol.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. (laughter)

Carol: But it's not only Christian symbol...

Prabhupāda: But many, many priestly order, they carry the cross. Cross is the sign when Lord Jesus Christ was killed. Is it not?

Carol: It is, but that symbol is used in a lot of ways.

Prabhupāda: That means how you killed Lord Jesus Christ. That is the sign. That reminds you that you killed. You accuse the Jewish people "They killed," but you are also killing. Although you are claiming Christian. Therefore I want to know—you are a learned scholar—when you abided by the order of Lord Jesus Christ? That is my question.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: You are not transcendental. You are trying to be transcendental. You should always remember that "We are trying to be transcendental." When you are actually on transcendental state, you will not be affected by any modes of material nature. Therefore you should be very cautious and careful. Just like on the sea, you are in the boat. You are transcendental. But the boat may can merge into the water any moment unless you are very carefully plying it. At any moment. You are not in the water, you are safe on the boat, but if you do not carefully ply your boat, then you can fall down at any moment. The comparison is given, nṛ-deham ādyam sulabhaṁ sudurlabhaṁ. Sulabhaṁ. This human form of body is just like a very nice boat to cross over this ocean of ignorance, and the guru is the pilot or the captain. And the śāstras are favorable wind. Just like if you are going this direction, if the wind is blowing this..., then automatically your boat is pushed. And behind the boat, what is called, the boat, that thing? He takes the...

Amogha: The oar, rudder...

Srutakirti: The oarsman. Oarsmen.

Prabhupāda: Oarsman, all of them are.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: The steersman or the pilot?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the chief man. So the guru is there. He is the chief man, giving direction, or the captain. And others are plying, and the boat is also strong, and the wind is also favorable. In this circumstances, if you cannot cross, then you make suicide. The śāstras are there. That is favorable wind. You get the way. And the spiritual master is directing, "Do like this." And you have got a nice boat and you are plying. Now cross over. Very big ocean in the material world. Just see the sky, how big it is. So we have to cross this material sky, penetrate the covering, then go to the spiritual sky. Then you are safe. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). That place, even after destruction of this whole material world, that is safe. So we have to go there, plying the boat. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "You rascal, give up everything. Surrender unto Me. And surrender unto Me. Follow My instruction as I have given. Then you are safe." But that they will not do. They will try to cheat Kṛṣṇa by interpretation, "This means this. This means that." That they will do, these rascals, big, big rascals. Kṛṣṇa says something, and they will misinterpret. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, and Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "No, no, it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person."

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Oh, seagull. They are doing the same business, and after his much advancement of civilization, he is doing the same business. The tiger is also eating flesh and blood, and human being—a scientific slaughterhouse. The same business, but they have got scientific instrument how to cut the throat quickly. This is the advance, advancement of civilization. The dog and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They do not know even what is the standard of human civilization. If you are doing the same business like ordinary animals, then where is the advancement of civilization? Where they have gone by crossing here?

Devotee (2): I think they went up that path out there, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Here, this way?

Devotee (2): Yes, I think so.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Cloak and cross, they have become. In India also, simply having a thread, a brāhmaṇa. Two-paisa thread. That's all.

Paramahaṁsa: Even the coolies at the train station.

Prabhupāda: And by simply one daṇḍa, one is sannyāsī. This is all over the world. Mussulman, having a long beard, he is Mussulman. Mussuleḥ iman.(?) Musseleḥ means complete, and iman means honest. That is the meaning of Mussulman. Completely honest, completely devoted. Mussuleḥ iman. (long pause) We are not saying just "No sex." We don't say that. We simply say, "No illicit sex," and they do not like it. We don't say "No sex," but simply by saying, "No illicit sex," they don't like. Why? There is a Bengali song, "cakṣe yadi lage bhala kena dadimali" (?) "If I want to see something beautiful, why shall I not see?" That is pravṛtti. "I want to do it. I like to do it. Why should you say, 'No'?" This is the position. "I like to do it. I must do it." This is called pravṛtti (long pause) "I like to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in this way. Why should you say no?" This is going on. (break) The school students, college students, "I like to copy. Why shall I repress(?) ?" This is education. Here also they copy?

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: And they will also be forced out.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Such a huge city, if there is no money, they will tax those who are living there more and more. That is the only alternative. If you want actually peaceful life, then produce your own necessities of life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read these books. This is the only solution. There is no other solution. What is the use of running fifty miles by car to go to one's office and sit down in the office and make plan how to exploit others? This way? This is the business:" Make some plan, bluff people, advertisement, and money will come." This is their business. They are not giving anything, simply bluffing. Just like crossword. They are engaged in making solution. You know that, crossword?

Amogha: The crossword? You mean the puzzle?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the whole day they are making solution. This is their means of earning money. I have seen it. (pause) (chuckles) He has taken that word very seriously, "fourth-class men." The whole civilization is condemned and producing fourth-class men. And that's a fact.

Amogha: The intelligent man will have to admit it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: That lady may have been...

Guest 1: If she wanted to cross the road?

Madhudviṣa: No, no. That lady may have been walking home with a cartload, with booze, to kill herself. So when she got knocked over and all her liquor fell out on the ground and you didn't help her up with it, then maybe it was good that you left her there.

Guest 1: No, I think that particular situation where he helped the lady across the road...

Prabhupāda: No, particular situation is different. But generally if we do not know what is the ultimate goal, then we misguide. That is the point. So either in society or politics or economics or religion, philosophy, culture—everyone is engaged in some department. But if that leader does not know what is the ultimate goal of life, how he will lead? That is given direction in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in two verses. One verse is: idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22). Find out this verse. It is in the First Canto. Who can...? Where is? First of all find out this verse.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: And this is Dr. John Pore. He is the chairman of the religion department at the University of Southern California, and he has written a few books called "The Radical Suburb" and "Ethical Choice," and his academic interest is in ethics and religion and culture and education in public policy. And this is Dr. Crossley back here, also from the University of Southern California. He has a doctor of theology, and he is interested in modern theology. He's written many articles on modern theologians...

Prabhupāda: Then why modern theology? (laughter) Is God modern?

Dr. Crossley: No, but one can't do all theologians, one can't do every theologian.

Prabhupāda: No, "theo" means God, is it not?

Dr. Crossley: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And theology is science of God. So what is that science? You are trying to understand God, or you know God; you are going to abide by God's dictation. First of all, two things: you do not know God; you are trying to find out God. I think this is not theology; it is theosophy. Those who are trying to find out God by speculation, they are theosophist. And theologist means one who knows God and abides by his order. Just like we know government and we accept the government's law and abide by it. That is good citizenship. And those who have no government, they are trying to find out some good system of government, and that is another thing. So what is your position? You know God or you are trying to find out God? What is the theologician's position? That is my question.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Crossley: It's both.

Prabhupāda: No, both cannot be.

Dr. Crossley: Some seek...

Prabhupāda: No, both cannot be. That is illogical. If you know God, there is no use of finding Him out. You know already who is God.

Dr. Crossley: Is knowing the end of seeking?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. You abide by His law. That's all. You know your father. Abide by his law, that's all. Whatever father says, you abide by that. And if you do (don't) know who is your father, that is very difficult job? How do you find your father? By research? Do you find your father by research work? That is my question. Is it possible to find my father by research work? What is the answer?

Dr. Crossley: I think you know your father. You know who he is.

Prabhupāda: How I know?

Dr. Crossley: Because you see him, you talk to him, you touch him.

Prabhupāda: But what is the proof that he is my father? I see so many gentlemen. How I know who is my father?

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Crossley: He tells you you're his son.

Prabhupāda: That means you accept anyone as God—he tells that "I am God"?

Dr. Crossley: No, but I accept anyone as father who tells me that I am his son because only one has ever told me that.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the way. Everyone will say, "I am your father." You will accept? Everyone will say, "I am your father." Will you accept everyone as your father? Then how do you accept the bona fide father? Hmm?

Dr. Wolfe: Foster fathers very often say that they are the real...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dr. Wolfe: Foster fathers very often tell their foster children that they are the real fathers.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not talking of foster; we are talking of real father. How do you know your real father?

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Crossley: You've grown up with him. You've known him since you were a little child. It's part of your consciousness.

Prabhupāda: So if my consciousness is not right, then I may select a wrong father.

Dr. Crossley: Well, just because you know he's your father, there's still more to know about him. There's more and more to understand.

Prabhupāda: It is... Very simple answer is: when the mother certifies, "He is your father," that's all. You don't have to make research. That is futile. By research, you cannot understand who is your real father. You can understand your real father only by the certificate of your mother. That's all. Therefore our Vedic mantra says that religion and God cannot be manufactured by speculation. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkena yojayet. Just like this example, father. Father was existing before my birth. So after my birth, with limited knowledge I make research who is my father—you will never find your father. But if you take the certificate of your mother, that is there. Similarly, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā, things which are beyond our conception, that cannot be established simply by argument, logic, so-called science and philosophy, that is not possible. The same example: by argument, logic, science, philosophy you cannot ascertain who is your father. The only simple method and authorized method is to ask mother, and if she says, "Yes, he is your father..." Similarly, things which are beyond our conception, simply argument will be useless. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkena yo... Tarka means arguments. In another place it is said, tarka, argument, is futile.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because if you are not prepared to give up, then you cannot accept God.

Dr. Pore: I think you're being a little unfair to Dr. Crossley. I think what you say is true, that the most important thing we can do is to seek and know God, but I don't think it's right to say that it's a bad thing to study how other people or how man has...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say bad thing. I say if you are serious about God, now, here is God.

Dr. Pore: That's what a university in part is for, to study about how people have thought on different matters.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. I have already said. If you are seeking after something, if you get that something, why don't you accept it?

Dr. Pore: Do you believe that Christ said that Kṛṣṇa was his father?

Prabhupāda: The name may be different. Just like in our countries we say this flower something. You say something, something. But the subject matter must be the same. Name is not... You can say in a different way, as you understand. But God is one. God cannot be two. You may give Him different names. That is different thing. But God is one. God cannot be two.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the easiest way of being directly in touch with God. Because God and God's name, they are absolute, so your chanting the name of God means that directly in touch with God.

Dr. Crossley: Why is that better than loving your fellow man in the traditional bhakti-mārga?

Prabhupāda: But you love your fellow man, but you don't love your fellow animal. You love man, but you send the animals to the slaughter-house. That is your love.

Dr. Wolfe: And the soldiers into the battle to be killed.

Prabhupāda: No, now, first of all study this man then you go to soldiers. Our love is limited. But if you love... Just like this tree. There are many thousand leaves and flowers. So if you water to each of them, then it will occupy the whole, your life. And if you are intelligent, just put water onto the root. It will go everywhere. And if you are not intelligent, so go on putting water every leaf, every... You see? Your whole body requires food. That does not mean you have to supply food to the ears, to the eyes, to the nails, to the rectum, to the... No. You give food to the stomach; it will be distributed. So Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. That we have already studied. So if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your love will be distributed. If you don't love Kṛṣṇa and if you love somebody else, then somebody will cry that "You do not love me."

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Crossley: I'd like to ask something. You seem to be saying in several of your illustrations that to try to love is too much. But at least we can chant. To try to have a prohibition against killing is too much. Look what happens, we slaughter the animals. But to have a specific prohibition against killing the cow, that we can have. In other words, I hear you talking about a specific discipline that people can actually accomplish: not kill a cow, chant...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The brāhmaṇas...

Dr. Crossley: But every religion has that. Jews keep kosher.

Prabhupāda: It is... Apart from religion, it is social upkeep. It has nothing to do with religion, but it helps religion.

Dr. Crossley: I guess what I really want to know is does it matter what the specific thing is, like not killing a cow or like chanting or are there many specific things that people can do for love of God and for discipline that will serve the same purpose?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The only specific thing is you chant. Then other things will automatically be revealed.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Crossley: So chanting is necessary.

Prabhupāda: Yes, absolutely.

Dr. Crossley: Nothing else will do as well.

Prabhupāda: No, because at the present moment they are not practical. Suppose the meditation. It is not practical.

Dr. Crossley: Meditation is not practical?

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our age, that is, in the Kali-yuga, it is not.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this thing. That is not practical. And it is practical. Even a small child can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We see every day. A small child is chanting and dancing without any training.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Crossley: I think one of the things that Peter is saying, though, that I haven't really heard you address is that... He's not saying that he doesn't believe. He's saying that he has the same experiences as all the young people here, but he doesn't dress this way. He doesn't chant. He doesn't choose to call this praise to Kṛṣṇa. He chooses to call it something else. How is it essentially different? He's saying it's essentially the same.

Prabhupāda: That he can say also that he does not dress like him, that's all. Not different. Difference is that... We are all differently dressed. It is not that every one of us who is sitting down not differently dressed. But we are not talking of the dress. We are talking ourselves. When I talk with you, you talk with me, you are not concerning about my dress or I am concerning your dress; I am talking with you as gentleman, that's all. What is the impediment of the dress? Anyone can dress as he likes. But he is a gentleman; you are a gentleman. Talk like a gentleman, that's all.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Crossley: If anyone can dress as he likes, then why do you all dress alike?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we already are. Just find out anyone who is equally dressed with you. Find out anyone. You are differently dressed from me, from them. And if you criticize my dress, I criticize your dress. That's all. Then you go on criticizing dress. Where is the talk between gentlemen? That is our disease, that we are concerned with the dress, this body, not the person who has the dress. That is our disease.

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the dhotī is not important then.

Prabhupāda: Not important. He can have dhotī, you can have pant, you can have... It doesn't matter.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Of course, in Christianity, which many of the Christians, I feel, are not following as closely as they should and have in the past, there is the idea, for example, in the Roman Catholic church, for example, at the time of the Mass, of experiencing the presence of God and there have been Christian mystics who have felt that they have experienced God. For example, St. Theresa, St. John of the Cross, Meister Eckhart, and various ones.

Prabhupāda: So they must give description of God. If you have seen this rose flower, then you can give a description. If you cannot give a description, then how you have seen rose flower?

Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, they have tried to give descriptions, but, of course, I think all descriptions that have been given of God are, as descriptions are inadequate. Because in my own feeling I believe that the full knowledge of God comes through the actual experience of God, experiencing God in our lives.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that experience you can get. Just like God is describing Himself. Now, why don't you take that? Your description may be defective because you are imperfect. But if God Himself is giving His, I mean to say, identification, why don't you take it? Not only gives description, He acts according to the description. When Kṛṣṇa was present, He says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior element." He proved it when He was present. There was no more superior power than Him when Kṛṣṇa was present. In His opulence, in His richness, in His strength, in His education—everything, all topmost, Kṛṣṇa. All topmost. The proof is that because you get the topmost knowledge, therefore Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world, accepted, topmost knowledge. All scholars, all philosophers, all religionists, they read it.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: Recently we got a conviction against him. He got six months in prison. In Los Angeles we got to convict him for this kind of activity. So he is being stopped.

Guest (Indian man): Also he can't come to Canada any more, can't cross the border.

Jayatīrtha: Oh, he's been barred.

Guest: He is barred from coming to Canada.

Brahmānanda: He was put into the Denver county jail also when we were in Denver. He's out on bail now.

Mrs. Wax: Not only kidnapping devotees, Kṛṣṇa devotees, but all religious movements. He can't stand them.

Prabhupāda: And the parents are taking help from him.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So material consciousness is false.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything can be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. That is our preaching. That is truth. There is a nice car. Why shall I condemn it? Utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is truth. And the Māyāvādī philosophers, they will say, "It is untruth. Give it up." No. When you have produced something by your good intelligence, it is truth, but when you use it for other purpose than Kṛṣṇa, then it is false. (break) ...Deity nicely decorated, if I say, "It is all false," is that very good sense? They have created such a nice thing. No, the purpose for which you have created or utilized, that is false. So we want to change the consciousness. We don't condemn the thing. (break) ...with a knife you are cutting vegetables and utilizing, but if you use it for cutting your throat, that is bad. That is bad. So they are using the knife for cutting their own throat. This is bad. (break) The śāstra says, nidrāham ādyaṁ plavaṁ sukalpam. This body... We are just crossing the ocean of nescience. So this body is a good boat. māyā ete 'rtaṁ guruḥ karṇa-dharam. And the wind is favorable, Kṛṣṇa's instruction. And the captain is guru. He is guiding you. With all these facilities, if you cannot cross the nescience, then you are cutting your throat. (break) ...boat is there, the captain is there, the favorable wind is there. But we are not utilizing it. That means I am killing myself. (break) ...nity. is there. (break) ...policy. The policy is suicidal. That is the defect. So preaching means to remove this defect and utilize the policy for going ahead.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: ...there is one word, sva-langulena atithi tīrtvā sindhum. We see sometimes the dogs are swimming. (greets someone:) Good morning. If somebody thinks, "Oh, the dog is swimming, so let me capture the tail, and I shall swim. I shall cross." So similarly, those who are thinking, the so-called scientists, philosopher, will solve the problems, it is exactly like to cross over the Pacific Ocean by capturing the tail of a dog. (laughter) If one thinks that "Dog is sufficiently strong to carry me. So he is swimming, so I shall swim also," so following the dogs, capturing their tail, if one thinks that he will cross over the Pacific Ocean... Similarly, these so-called scientists, philosophers, are like dogs, and if anyone thinks that he will cross by capturing his tail, he will be baffled. (break) ...bomb scientist still living?

Bahulāśva: Yes, he's still living.

Prabhupāda: So, what he is doing now?

Bahulāśva: Now he is retired.

Prabhupāda: Oh. No more swimming.

Morning Walk -- July 28, 1975, San Diego:

Rāmeśvara: He fought the Muslims when they invaded Spain. He is a famous Spanish man who fought against the Muslims when they invaded. From Africa, they crossed over the sea and invaded Spain.

Brahmānanda: The Moors. (break)

Prabhupāda: This has got some meaning. What is this matchbox? There is earth, there is sands (sense?), there is comfort. So we shall go this way or...? (break) It is all vacant? (break) Big demonstration of cow fighting, bull fighting, and kill them. Such a Christian is trying to convert others as Christians! Just see the fun. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and they are sporting with the life of bull, and they are Christian. We have to believe.

Yadubara: Isn't that somewhat in the kṣatriya spirit?

Prabhupāda: Nonsense spirit. Rascal spirit.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They shoot.

Brahmānanda: They have a system, automatic shooting, that if you cross a certain line, they have these rays of light, and if you break the ray of light, then automatically all machine guns start firing in the whole area. It's all done...

Prabhupāda: This is their scientific advancement.

Brahmānanda: They've made such a nice place that they're afraid the people will escape from it.

Prabhupāda: And they are thinking, "This system is for happiness."

Brahmānanda: If it's for happiness, then why prevent people from leaving?

Prabhupāda: "Why?"—that you are asking. They think it is happiness. That is called māyā. It is not happiness; still, if somebody is thinking happiness, that is called māyā.

Dhanañjaya: But even if they cross the line successfully, they'll only suffer misery on the other side too.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: Yes. This is another point.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There are many. I saw in Detroit, I think. The bridge is covered?

Brahmānanda: San Francisco. The Golden Gate Bridge they have put...

Prabhupāda: Not Golden Gate. That San Diego, I think. We crossed one bridge to go to the...

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes, San Diego also. They have these fences so when people jump off they are caught by the fences. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: And I think in Berkeley? The tower?

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes. In the college university they have a big clock tower...

Prabhupāda: These are the signs how they are disappointed. They are always ready to commit suicide. So where is success?

Vāsughoṣa: They are practically committing suicide by their activities.

Prabhupāda: That is also another side. But practically you see.

Morning Walk -- September 18, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You know how to fix?

Guṇārṇava: Yes. They know how to do it.

Prabhupāda: One bamboo, you just crosswise fix up and then in the middle... The rope should come through one pulley first, then the second pulley. Then it will not go out.

Indian man (1): Ringing also will be nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you see to fix it up nicely. Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Saccidānanda said they are purchasing vegetables, fruits-125—but you have increased, 190. Why?

Dhanañjaya: The devotees' prasāda? Devotees' bhoga?

Prabhupāda: Devotees or... Daily they were purchasing 125. But you said, "No, it must be more," and the banana is rotting. Why do you purchase more?

Dhanañjaya: No, I allotted five rupees per person.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it must be spent.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Read Bhagavad-gītā very thoroughly and try to understand. Then everything will be clear, how to live, how to organize society. We have to live. The same thing: we are also working, we are also eating, we are sleeping, we are also marrying—but according to Kṛṣṇa's direction. Then it is Kṛṣṇa conscious life and perfect life. And as soon as you do anything whimsically, at your will, then you are responsible. Kṛṣṇa or His representative. Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction, and His representative is explaining. In both ways Kṛṣṇa is helping. So even so much facility being offered to you, if you don't take advantage, then you are committing suicide. Ātmahā. Ātmahā. Just like the sea is now calm and quiet. If you want to go somewhere, take advantage of it. And if you start your boat while it is cyclone, then you'll be drowned. So Kṛṣṇa has left the book of instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is favorable condition. And the spiritual master is the captain, and you take advantage. Your, this human body is a good boat. So good boat, favorable condition, good captain—take advantage of crossing this ocean. Otherwise you are committing suicide. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult to cross over this ocean of nescience, but these are the favorable conditions. One should take advantage of these favorable conditions and cross over this ocean of nescience.
Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Then you are great scientist. Let me kick on your face. (laughter)

Devotee (1): What about cross-breeding, when they change the...? Cross-breeding.

Prabhupāda: That is not accident, cross-breeding. You arrange for that.

Devotee (1): They change the original seed.

Prabhupāda: Then what is that? That is not accident. You are doing that. How you say it is accident? Why do you put this rascal question? As you are doing otherwise, it is coming otherwise. How you can say it is accident? Accident means nobody interferes; it comes. That is accident.

Harikeśa: Well, it may not be an accident, but it proves how we're becoming superior to the nature. We can control it. More and more, every day we're controlling.

Prabhupāda: How you can become superior? Nature has already given you, and then you are able to act. Where is your superiority? Huh?

Devotee (2): That is a good point.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Bhāgavata: Things show... Dolls displaying practical examples of the philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many things in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. Just like a dog is swimming, and somebody captures the tail of the dog, and he thinks that "The dog will help me to cross the ocean," this kind of. So everyone is trying for liberation, but they are catching the tail of a dog for liberation.

Dr. Patel: He must get the ship in the form of God's name. Hm?

Prabhupāda: In this way, practical instruction. Taking to yoga system, karma system, this system, that system, but he does not know that these are like the dog's tail. Nobody...

Dr. Patel: (laughing) They are criticizing you.

Prabhupāda: No, it is practically. Yes. You cannot cross over the sea by capturing the tail of a dog because you see the dog is swimming. So all this karma, jñāna, yoga, they are all failure. It is just like dog tail. You cannot cross over the nescience by capturing dog's tail. You must capture the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Tan aham... Eh?

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Now all these pagalas are making such a big noise all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). And doing all kinds of sinful activities—kurute vikarma—because they are pagalas. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. It is very difficult there to cross?

Indian man (3): Yes, sir. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Indian man (3): What is your idea about the secularism preached by our government of India and the policy of secularism? What do they mean by that? That means they say that there is no place for religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana. As soon as there is no religion, the population-animal, that's all. That is going on. Because there was no religion, therefore the government has to declare emergency. (laughter) Because all animals. So they created first animals, then emergency. This is going on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why emergency? If there is human being, then why emergency? All animals. To control the animals you require some special measure. This is the proof that they're animals. Otherwise why? Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is long, long ago said, dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana: "When you give up religion, you are no better than animals."

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.

Dr. Patel: Came to Kashmir. There is a tomb in Kashmir. I read some literature about it. His resurrection... They say that they smuggled him out of that cave. It is possible. When he was on the cross, he...

Prabhupāda: No, even by yoga system...

Dr. Patel: He must have gone in a trance.

Prabhupāda: He lived by trance.

Dr. Patel: He was a great devotee. There is no doubt about it.

Prabhupāda: By trance.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: When he... On the cross they say he uttered, "Father, don't forsake me." That is the time he went into trance most probably. Eh? He must have gone in trance when he uttered the last words, "Father, don't forsake me." And then when he was brought down in the lap of his mother and they took him in the cave, no? Under the guard of those Italian soldiers. Then there was a big hurricane or something like that and they all ran away. And after that he was smuggled away from that place. Christ has rebuilt his father's temple in true sense, the way he spread the Christianity. The churches have degenerated in his teaching, unfortunately. It is the church. That happens with every, in every, I mean, these things, teachings. Race, this race is very bold, indeed, that God choicest race, these Jews, somehow or other.

Prabhupāda: Jews?

Dr. Patel: Really, it is God's choicest race. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Indian man (1): We have got our Pultasena.(?) Pultasena means he is a lower-class man. He has written the Rāmāyaṇa in Malayalam. He was the son of a muhri(?) (indistinct), and the muhri was crossing a river, just when he came to a lake. That river he cannot cross because (indistinct). So he said, "There is an auspicious moment. If I get a son, he will be a wonderful chap." So he went and slept in somebody's veranda. That lady (indistinct) He was not getting sleep, walking up and down. He asked (indistinct) The lady of the house came back and told, "Oh, at this auspicious moment if I get a son he will be wonderful chap." So he got a son from that... And this man went away. After so many years, when he came, this boy, from the childhood he went to the temple. And when he goes there he says, "False, false." He used to say because these brāhmaṇas are narrating the Vedas in such a bad way, it is all false only. It is all darkness. The muhri knew if they gave some (Hindi) after praying something, they (indistinct) The boy (indistinct) Then this amuhri came after so many years that way. He saw this boy, he understood it. Then he gave another... (break)

Dr. Patel: ...are rogues. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: And the Patel was subordinate to Nehru. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 24, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They have crossed the dog with the, what you call, the bull.

Brahmānanda: German shepherd.

Dr. Patel: So Germany is defeated, no?

Prabhupāda: The bulldogs are English?

Dr. Patel: They are English. And Mr. Churchill is the representative of all the bulldogs. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...thinking, "I am English dog," (laughter) and he is thinking, "I am..." And the man is also thinking like that. What is the difference?

Dr. Patel: Both are animals.

Prabhupāda: Yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13).

Dr. Patel: That's right. We have got a dvija, dvija-karma kriya. Dvijā-karma-kriya? What do you call it?

Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikeśa: So faith in knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge means received from the superior. Like the child gets knowledge from the father. That kind of faith is required. If the child does not believe the statement of father and mother, he cannot make any progress. If the child does not believe the statement of mother, he does not know who is his father. So there must be faith, faith in the right person. Then it is all right. If you have got faith in the person who has got eyes to lead you, then he will help you to cross the road. And if you put your faith to another blind man like you, then it will cause disaster. Faith is required, but to the right person. Then it will be all right. You know that one barber is honest: then you can make your neck like this and he is with a sharpened razor. But you have faith that "He will not cut my throat; he will shave me." This is faith. And if you do not know him and if you put your neck like this and if he is a rogue, he will cut your throat. That's all. The same faith, if you put it to the right person, you become cleansed, shaved, and the same faith put in the wrong person—your throat is cut off. So you must know where to put the faith. So our Vedic injunction is: "Put your faith to the brahma-nistam, one who is God-realized." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-paniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭam: (MU 1.2.12) "One who has full knowledge in the Vedas and firmly fixed up in Brahman, God, you put your faith there." Otherwise there will be disaster. Right faith. (break) ...you call Prabhakara?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 17, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Seventeen, sixteen?

Jayapatāka: They're asking in the back.

Prabhupāda: Seventeen hundred? That's all right.

Jayapatāka: We're buying those. So why they put the water here? To sabotage. There was no water when we came. Now they put more water here. Gosvāmī Mahārāja is taking water.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayapatāka: They flooded.

Sudāmā: You cross here, Prabhupāda. (end)

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: Even some of these women, they're not married but they are serving Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). This striya, generally they take it, "Even she is prostitute," striya. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim: "They can also go back to home, back to Godhead." Māṁ hi pārtha... If he takes Kṛṣṇa very seriously, then everything is possible. No impediment. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa devotional service is so strong that it cannot be checked by any material impediments. The smārtas, they are thinking like that, "How these mlecchas and yavanas can become a brāhmaṇa?" But they do not know that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness one can jump over. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is very strong. Therefore there are gradual process. Varṇāśrama-dharma, karma-tyāga, this, that, so many things, pious activities, rituals. But this is the process, step by step, to cross over māyā. But Kṛṣṇa said, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa sincerely, immediately he crosses over. As Kṛṣṇa says in another place, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I'll do immediately." So māyā means pāpa. Unless one is sinful, he cannot be in māyā. So if one surrenders, then he, means, immediately crosses over māyā. So these smārta brāhmaṇas, they consider this thing. They are thinking, "How a person born in other families, they can become brāhmaṇa?"

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Therefore they are rascals. Now they say, the Darwin rascal says, that from monkey man came. Why the monkeys now do not give men? That is rascaldom, false theory.

Gurukṛpā: They say they can make crossbreed.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. You are the cause of this crossbreeding. It is not accident. You are making arrangement; therefore it is.... There is cause. It is not accident. There is no accident. (break) ...man promises that "You just surrender to me; I will take care of you, everything," so whether I shall do it or not?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So why they do not do? Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender, and I take care of."

Acyutānanda: " 'Cause Kṛṣṇa is not here. We can see the man, and we can see him giving us."

Prabhupāda: That means he has no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. I say aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayā... Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. He is within your heart. But that means you are rascal. You do not know to see Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Political, social is not. The leader must be perfect. If the leader is blind, how can I accept such blind leader? I am blind man. What is the use? I am blind; therefore I am asking, "Can you help me to cross the road?" Another blind, "Yes, yes, come on, I shall." Why shall I accept? First of all I shall ask, "You have got eyes?" "No, I am also blind." What is this nonsense?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do they admit their leader to be blind?

Devotee: No. They use their leader's book as Bible.

Prabhupāda: Then why you change? Why you change?

Devotee: They don't change. They follow Mao.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They... They say there is necessity of revolution. The Communist theory they accept, that periodically there is need of revolution.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty? Christ's picture is there. Suppose we have got our picture, Kṛṣṇa. So all right, don't believe in Kṛṣṇa. But you have got picture of Christ, and you can see that he is being crucified. The cross is your symbol.

Guest (4): We don't worship the dead Christ.

Prabhupāda: You may not, but Christians.... The Christians, they put the cross, a reminder that "Christ suffered for us." This is the cross. So we became sinful, and the Lord, he suffered for us. We should stop this sinful activity. That is sanity. But "Christ will suffer, he'll be repeatedly crucified, and we shall go on with our nonsense activity." Is that religion?

Guest (3): Well, I agree with you there.

Prabhupāda: So that is the point.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: And they're taking it, highly civilized way of life. Where you are going? You cannot go beyond this earth. You attempted so much to go to the moon planet, you failed. And where you can go, put-put-put-put? You'll have to stay here. But that rascal does not understand. He thinks, "I am going very fast." Where you are going? You are destined to stay here. That he does not understand. Not only this put-put motorcycle, the put-put airplane also. They're also trying to go to this planet around, round. That sputnik, first sputnik, eighteen thousand miles, and they simply rounded over the world in one hour and twenty-five minutes. And where did you go? And when he's tired, then come down again. They cannot understand, these so-called scientists, that we cannot go in this way. There is higher authority. Why it will allow us to go anywhere? Just like the horse running fast, but within the race course. That's all. It cannot go beyond the race course. And similarly, however heroic expedition we may show, you are, what is called, baddha-jīva, conditioned. You cannot cross the condition, that is not possible. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, on account of his false prestige, he is thinking, "Oh, I am independent. I can do whatever I like." Vimūḍhātmā, foolish, rascal. Mūḍha, not. Vimūḍhātmā, "especially the rascal, a special rascal." Ordinary rascal is better than the special rascal. (laughs) So all these scientists, philosophers, and political leaders, they're all special rascal, they are.

Room Conversation -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: He's not living? He's dead?

Prabhupāda: No, he's dead means now he's old man. He's about my age or little older than me. Now his skin has become slackened and body is not so strong to dance. It requires exercise. Therefore he's retired, I think, maybe dead. But I don't hear his name. He was more or less known in Europe as Shankar. But he was so popular that one my doctor friend.... He was educated in London, a medical officer of Allahabad. So he told me that "I saw that in Paris, Udar Shankar's dancing was advertised, and hundreds and thousands of people from England going to Paris, crossing the Channel to see him dance." He showed me. He's so popular. And now nobody asks for him. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were really, you know, just looking for any loophole, but there is no loophole.

Prabhupāda: No hole. That's all right. We don't care for it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The man we spoke to, when he heard what we wanted to do, he said, "Boys, you're up against the wall." He said, "You're up against the Great Wall." China has a wall called the Great Wall. He said, "You've come up against the Great Wall. You'll never cross it."

Prabhupāda: No, they'll be.... Nature's law is so strong that they are also trying to knock their head in the wall. They will themselves break their head. The laws of nature is the same. If you try to break the walls from this side and if they try to break the walls from that side, both of them will lose their head. So if they are so foolish.... They are foolish. Everywhere such foolish men are there. They are trying to overcome the laws of nature. That is the greatest foolishness. That is the greatest foolishness. Just like government has got police force, military force, and if somebody tries to become, violate the laws of government by defying police force and military force—that is futile. Is it possible, that "I shall defy the government laws"? No, there is police force. There is military. "I don't care for that." It is foolishness. It is simply foolishness.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: This is love? If you say, "Prabhupāda, I love you. Now I want to kill you. Now I will kill you." Please don't love me! (laughter) Please get out. "I love you so much that I will kill you."

Devotee (2): They like to keep the, Christ, the deity of Christ, they keep him nailed on the cross. They think that's very...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you see all the pictures in the Church, he is carrying the cross, and he is pushing, pushed by the government men. How miserable condition they show.

Devotee (2): They don't have any...

Prabhupāda: They do not have picture, just like we show Kṛṣṇa is enjoying. Such rotten things. That is going on in religion. They love, they love means they want to see their lovable suffering so much, you see. Only then (indistinct). This, we want to see our lovable object that He is enjoying. Young boy, (indistinct) gopīs, and nice night, playing flute, He's enjoying. That we want to see. And they want to see that lovable he is suffering. How they can see it, if there is love?

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Devotee (3): One, one man once said that to carry, to glorify the cross is like they..., glorifying the revolver.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (3): If the husband is shot, then you take the gun, and you worship the gun.

Prabhupāda: That is.... Yes. Very good example. Are you, are you going to some church (indistinct).

Woman: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So, the same picture, that Jesus Christ is carrying his cross, and falling. (indistinct) and you go enjoy. (long pause) In Māyāpur you have seen Yoga-pīṭha, Caitanya Mahāprabhu birthplace? Yoga-pīṭha.

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu...

Devotee (2): Oh.

Prabhupāda: ...and two sides, his two wives. Not that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is worshiped as a sannyāsī.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: He got the first prize. You cannot express what mother's feeling is. Best thing is not to see.

Devotee (5): That's the ah..... There are many famous paintings of Christ on the cross and his mother before..., his mother standing before the cross.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mother cannot see it. Impossible. Better close the eyes. That is artist's realized. How a man can paint the expression of the mother, his child being killed. It is not possible. (break) Lesson by natures' study. Generally.... Generally means that is natural if one is under the protection of father and mother he must be happy. So why shall I give up the protection of father and mother? When my father is quite able, quite rich, and everything complete. Not that the poor father. (break) ...plainly declare, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Practically see. I came to your country without any of these things. You saw. When I came to your country first, I had no center, no.... But who has provided all these hundred temples, big, big palaces, temples? Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). To remain under the protection of Kṛṣṇa you get so much facility. Why not be grateful to Kṛṣṇa? (inaudible) ...and He has given me so many sons, so many houses, so many protection.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: He got the first prize. You cannot express what mother's feeling is. Best thing is not to see.

Devotee (5): That's the ah..... There are many famous paintings of Christ on the cross and his mother before..., his mother standing before the cross.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mother cannot see it. Impossible. Better close the eyes. That is artist's realized. How a man can paint the expression of the mother, his child being killed. It is not possible. (break) Lesson by natures' study. Generally.... Generally means that is natural if one is under the protection of father and mother he must be happy. So why shall I give up the protection of father and mother? When my father is quite able, quite rich, and everything complete. Not that the poor father. (break) ...plainly declare, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Practically see. I came to your country without any of these things. You saw. When I came to your country first, I had no center, no.... But who has provided all these hundred temples, big, big palaces, temples? Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). To remain under the protection of Kṛṣṇa you get so much facility. Why not be grateful to Kṛṣṇa? (inaudible) ...and He has given me so many sons, so many houses, so many protection.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: They crossed buffalo.

Mādhavānanda: Crossbreed. And it is very huge bull. They raise it only for slaughtering, for getting a large quantity of meat. One bull, one buffalo, weighs hundreds and hundreds of pounds. And they sell it for half million dollars for one, so that they can breed it with others and make many. In the airports, when we are distributing books, we meet many farmers who have slaughter ranches. Whenever they say "farmer," usually it's for slaughtering. (break)

Jayādvaita: ...in Wisconsin we saw that there are many dairy cows. They are raising them especially for milk. It's called America's dairyland. And they have many, many big dairy cows. And they are getting so much milk. We were preaching that "If you take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you'll have the richest state, because you have so many cows, and we are preaching that people should drink milk and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So your state will be the richest."

Prabhupāda: No. We can.... From milk, we can make so many nice foods. You take ghee, and from ghee, from grains, from fruits, you make so many varieties. Just like dahl, pulses, soak it in the water and then fry in the ghee and put masalā, and it is so nice salty preparation, dahl mutta. Then make samosā. You introduce these things, dahl mut(?), samosā, jalebīs, they will like. They have never tasted all these. Sandeśa, rasagullā, pantoa,(?) so many varieties from milk, only milk.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...habituated to sit cross-leg. They have learned also. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. So people in general, they are now out of God consciousness. Is it not?

Scheverman: Yes, I would agree that in our society, that the consciousness of God is definitely on the wane. There's no question about that. We find it very, very difficult, I think, even to speak about the Lord God in the presence of people, because the ears are closed or stopped. There's not a willingness to listen.

Prabhupāda: Why the people have come to this condition, that they are not prepared even to hear about God?

Scheverman: I think, I think that, perhaps...

Prabhupāda: One priest in Boston, he issued one booklet that "These boys, they're our boys, mostly they are coming from Christian or Jewish families. But before this movement, they were not coming even to the church, never inquired about God. Now they are mad after God." He issued one pamphlet like that. These boys.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Bhakta Gene: Perhaps you misunderstood me. I was referring to truly devotional mystics, such as St. John of the Cross, St. Francis of Assisi.

Prabhupāda: If there is devotional service, where is the need of mysticism? There is no need. God is my master, I am His servant. Where there is necessity of this nonsense mysticism?

Bhakta Gene: I think that the term mysticism, so many people have been playing with, particularly here in the United States.

Prabhupāda: So many people, we have nothing to do with so many people. If you are actually servant of God, so God is there, you are servant. So your transaction is there. Just to carry out the orders of God. That's all. Why do you want mysticism? Just to show some jugglery to the people? You serve God. That's all. And it is very simple thing, what God orders. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Where is the question of mysticism? There is no question of mysticism. God says "Just always think of Me. Offer your obeisances and worship Me." That's all. Where is the need of mysticism? It is all jugglery.

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "This is our religion." What is religion? "No God." What is religion? Then, those who are godless, they have got religion. Atheism has got religion. Then why bring this religion? What is the meaning of religion? Just see.

Pradyumna: One time we went to a church in Boston to speak. They had only a pulpit for the preacher, and behind, no altar, no crucifix, nothing, just big map of outer space with planets on the wall. Not even any Christian church, but no cross, nothing. Only universe. Universalist Church, it's called. The Universalists.

Prabhupāda: That's nice, but give some information of the universe.

Hari-śauri: Says, "Religion: 1. monastic condition, being a monk or a nun, enter into a monastic order; 2. practice of sacred rites; 3. one of the prevalent systems of faith and worship, i.e. Christian, Muhammadan, etc.; 4. human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude."

Prabhupāda: This is religion. Personal conception of God.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You can make, by arrangement, artificial, cross-breeding.

Hari-śauri: But that cannot be counted as one of the 8,400,000 forms. I was thinking last night when we were coming down this road that it's very nice and smooth, but then I thought you were saying the other morning that in the heavenly planets they are made from coral and so many different things. Here we're using tarmac.

Prabhupāda: The more you go higher planetary system, the standard of living is many, many thousand times better than this. Many, many thousand times.

Rūpānuga: We can't even imagine it now.

Hari-śauri: What to speak of the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: Just suppose here are stones, there are pearls. You cannot imagine.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Lavish? What do you mean by lavish?

Janice Johnson: Well, I think this is a rather elegant, lavish kind of room.

Hari-śauri: She's referring to your quarters are very nicely furnished.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is for you, because you cannot sit down cross-legged, we have arranged this couch for you. (laughter) If it is not lavishly decorated, you'll refuse to come here.

Janice Johnson: Why is it necessary to live in such comfort as this for the spiritual...?

Prabhupāda: No, we can live on the street, but you cannot come and see on the street. For you we have arranged. That is the... We can live underneath a tree. That is a... But that does not make any difference. Our point is that you may live materially comfortably—there is no harm—but if you forget your spiritual identity, then you'll remain like animal. Just like sometimes a cat or dog is also allowed to sit on the couch, but that does not mean he has become a human being. He remains a cat and dog because the consciousness is lacking of a human being. In this seat there may be some bugs. So the bug is also living on this couch, but he has no understanding.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (interviewers leave)

Rūpānuga: You made some nice points during the interview, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They wanted to know why we were doing things so elaborately, and you said, "This is for you, so that you will come here. We can live anywhere, under a tree, but if we were living under a tree you would not come. So this couch is for you to sit down because you can't sit down cross-legged." They appreciated.

Prabhupāda: Actually that is the fact. We can live any condition. What he'll do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We saw the first Back to Godhead magazine yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The first Back to Godhead copy of the magazine that you published from Calcutta in 1944. We found in the library.

Prabhupāda: Oh, '44 edition is here?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Library of Congress.

Prabhupāda: How they collected?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, it has kept very nicely.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: To make the sound audible? But there is no harm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Inside. But this disturbs something to the whole scene, because he has to remove the chain and cross it and then...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why? There is no need. No need of crossing the chain.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it can be done inside then?

Prabhupāda: Why not? It can be done.

Hari-śauri: I think they took that from Vṛndāvana. In Vṛndāvana, they blow the conchshells, they come out onto that little balcony and blow.

Rūpānuga: I also wanted to ask a question, Śrīla Prabhupāda, on dancing in the temple room during ārati, especially maṅgala-ārati. Is it not that the devotees should not turn their back while dancing to the Deity?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now he is realizing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because at Cross Maidan you were speaking very boldly that all these others are cheating.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are cheating. Is there any meaning that you pay so many dollars and take the mantra? Mantra is such a thing for business?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In this meditation magazine one of the things they sell, the special techniques is you take a ping-pong ball, ping-pong, you know, that table tennis? And you cut it in half and you place the two halves on your eyes, and then that is called samādhi. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Who has said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll show you the picture when he brings the magazine. They show a person very seriously meditating on two halves of a ping-pong ball. You have to pay for it. (laughter)

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Guest (1): What would happen to the people that killed Christ on the cross? Very bad, it seems.

Prabhupāda: Christ cannot be killed, but they killed themselves.

Devotee (3): So we read that Christ said "I and my father are one," so they say therefore Christ is Kṛṣṇa, so therefore Kṛṣṇa can't be God.

Prabhupāda: "One" means in quality. And in the Vedic literature we say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That means we are one in quality. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. So now we are material-bhūtaḥ, jīva-bhūtaḥ. When we realize that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul, I am part and parcel of God," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ. Then bhakti begins.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Drunkard? No.

Hṛdayānanda: Crazy.

Prabhupāda: This is Amsterdam? Cross street? No.

Devotee: Seventy-fifth Street.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, this is Amsterdam.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere I see that poster.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa, he was doing that for about three weeks in a row.

Ādi-keśava: All night long.

Prabhupāda: He would go out all night long for about three weeks, putting those posters up everywhere.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: I think I saw you before? No

Mukunda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is Mr. Cline Cross, who is the religious correspondent for The Observer. This is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. And this is Tony McGraw, who is a photographer.

Jayatīrtha: The Observer is one of the most respected newspapers.

Prabhupāda: You can give chair.

Cline Cross: No, I'll sit on the floor. I'll sit this way.

Jayatīrtha: You sure you're comfortable this way? We can bring a chair.

Cline Cross: Yes, I can... No, a chair would give the wrong atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: So you are observing our movement?

Cline Cross: Yes, really for the first time at close quarters.

Prabhupāda: First time? We are here for the last seven years.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: Yes, I know a little about you, but it's only in the last hour that I've really begun to learn.

Jayatīrtha: We showed him the movie,

Prabhupāda: Your paper is Observer. Why did you not observe for the last seven years? (laughter)

Mukunda: We just showed him our film.

Prabhupāda: How did you like?

Cline Cross: Oh, it was very interesting. Again it taught me a lot that I did not previously know.

Prabhupāda: We are trying to give real life. The present civilization is... (to someone else): Hare Kṛṣṇa, but... How are you? (converses in Hindi) So you are religious observer. What is your idea of religion?

Cline Cross: I would say much the same as yours, from what I've seen in your writings—that there's an underlying truth behind all religion. Would you agree with that?

Prabhupāda: Religion, as it is explained in the dictionary, "accepting a supreme controller." Is it not? So do the people accept a supreme controller? Do they accept? There are so many system of religions, but do they actually know who is the supreme controller? That is my question. What do you think? Just like, this is British government, and we know that the Queen is the supreme controller. Similarly, of all creation, cosmic manifestation, there is a supreme controller, and who is that supreme controller? Do they know it? That is my question.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: I mean, what is your attitude towards Christianity?

Prabhupāda: Don't come to Christianity. I'm talking on religion, the science of religion. The religion... When we speak of religion, there is no question of Christianity or Muslim or Hindu. Just like when they speak of gold, gold is gold everywhere. Gold cannot be Muslim gold or Hindu gold or Christian gold. We are concerned with gold, not the country where the gold is produced. That is not very important thing. Whether it is gold, that is our business.

Cline Cross: I mean, would you count Jesus Christ as gold?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? He's speaking about the supreme controller, God, so why should we not? Anyone who is speaking about God... (break) Religion without science or philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. So they must be combined together. So far the controller is concerned, this is scientific understanding. Just like the father... We consider... Why we? Everyone. Either he is Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu, the conception of God is generally accepted as the supreme father.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: I mean, it is a fact.

Prabhupāda: It is fact.

Cline Cross: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Because, just like anything, creation means the mother, the father and the children. That is our practical experience. Without mother, we are nowhere. We are given birth by the mother. So the material nature is the mother. From the material nature, material elements, everything is coming. From the water the fishes are coming, from the land the grass, the worms, and then human being, they are coming. From the air also living entities are coming. So therefore material nature is the mother, and we have come out of the material nature, therefore we are children. Then there must be father, because without father, simply mother cannot give birth. This is science. You cannot deny the existence of God simply by a false argument. This is real argument. The mother is there, material nature, and we are children there. There must be father.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: In England, the Christian Church in recent years or recent decades has been doing very badly and losing support. Your teaching could perhaps provide a substitute for the more traditional type of Christian teaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the science. Therefore I say religion without scientific idea, that is sentiment. It has no value. This is basic principle of religion that the mother is there, the children are there—there must be father. If you say "I do not see what is God," it doesn't matter. Sometimes the child after birth does not see his father. But that does not mean that he has no father, because without father there is no possibility of his existence.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: What impelled you personally, when you, at a fairly late stage in life, to come to the West to teach?

Prabhupāda: I must be prepared to teach. Teaching is not so easy thing. I was ordered to teach at the age of twenty-five years by my Guru Mahārāja. But I was finding out the opportunity how to take up the work. So it took me so many years, so that at seventy years I came out for teaching.

Cline Cross: Why particularly in the West?

Prabhupāda: Because my Guru Mahārāja ordered that "You go and teach this gospel in the Western world."

Jayatīrtha: His teacher instructed him to do this.

Cline Cross: Yes. And are you surprised at the great success you've had?

Prabhupāda: That is my Guru Mahārāja's blessing. He ordered me, I tried my best, so there is little success. When I see so many boys and hundreds of centers, they are living very peacefully in a nice house, getting good prasādam, having good knowledge in the books, and reforming their character, and getting some good home, that is my success. Otherwise, they are loitering, no home, no character, no peace of mind. So at least this is my success. I have given so many boys a life. That is my success.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: Well, I'm very honored to have met you. I've read some of your work. I intend to read more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are trying to give the best service to the humanity, human society, and this is the only service. People should come forward and cooperate with us. It is not a sectarian sentimental religious system. It is a scientific understanding of the value of life.

Cline Cross: Well, thank you very much indeed, sir.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Bhagavān: Well, it's being fixed right now, but if I.... But we have a palanquin to carry up the stairs. It's actually warm there, very warm during the day, and your room is extremely warm because the sun crosses it all day long, and there won't be anybody to bother you. All the devotees are out of the castle. They're all in little houses all around. And it's so big that you won't feel cramped.

Prabhupāda: So I shall feel hungry also?

Bhagavān: Hungry? No, you ate good there last year. You ate very well there last year.

Prabhupāda: No, I like it. It is very nice place.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, but if you or somebody argues, "Where is Lenin? You are.... Why you are worshiping? You cannot see Lenin..." Because they say, "Where is your Kṛṣṇa? You are worshiping a statue," so we can say the same thing, "Where is your Lenin? The statue, it is?" In the airport station, street crossing and everywhere there is picture. And they go to worship Lenin's tomb every day. Many other fools also go there, tourists, that Red Square. They tried in India for Jawaharlal Nehru's tomb, for Gandhi's tomb. So in the beginning there was little crowd. Now nobody goes. But Vṛndāvana, Govindaji's temple, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple? Without invitation-crowd. This is culture. (loud chanting begins in background)

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is described in the Vedas, Vaitaraṇī, cross from the material to the spiritual world.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And it is fire in both sides, and it is like a razor edge, it could be very thin. And the saintly persons close their eyes and pass it. Kṛṣṇa makes them pass.

Prabhupāda: Similar description is there, bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām (SB 10.14.58). Bhavāmbudhiḥ, the great ocean of material nescience, it becomes vatsa-padam, just like the water contained in the hoof impression of a calf. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ param. Exactly animal civilization. Animal does not know what is future, what is past, what is going to happen, nothing. The human civilization has become like that. Professor Kotovsky said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body, everything is finished." He's a big professor in Moscow. This is their civilization. What do they explain about the lower animals? Wherefrom they come, the birds, beasts, trees, insects?

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are very satisfied. You have been in New Vrindaban with me? No, you were not. So the cows are so happy that... Just like in India. They are walking here and there.

Dr. Patel: They don't do anything. Now they have, they have (Hindi), brought some crossing and each cow, Jersey cows and Indian cows, they have crossed and they are producing more than thirty, forty liters of milk every day.

Prabhupāda: One liter means?

Dr. Patel: Two pounds.

Prabhupāda: So we have got cows, they are supplying more than hundred pounds.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: Now the price of rice has gone up by about eighty paisa. From two rupees to two-eighty. So the poor class of people, they are in a very bad situation. So now our attendance has gone up from twelve hundred to two thousand on that Saturday and Sunday, each day. So we have two shifts. So many people are coming that they come from ten o'clock in the morning and wait because otherwise they can't get a boat in time to cross the river. So then we were very surprised to read in a recent newsletter from LA that "They're going to restart the food relief." But we never knew it stopped. We never knew that they had stopped the food relief. We saw then that he said, "They're going to restart." But we never stopped, and we were very surprised to see that. And now they say...

Prabhupāda: Who said?

Jayapatākā: Rāmeśvara.

Gargamuni: To maintain this food relief from the centers only requires what? Fifteen hundred dollars a month. So little amount and so much service is done.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Hari-śauri: Some U.S. men, though, they gave a report that whilst they were talking to him he made different things appear and disappear. They wanted to examine him, and he wouldn't allow it. But during the course of the conversation he made several things appear and disappear. Like he produced this type of nut that comes from Nepal. It just appeared in his hand. And then he closed his hands and opened them up again and the nut, the same nut was there. But this time with some gold, a gold cross hanging from it.

Pradyumna: A Rudrākṣa. Some rare kind of Rudrākṣa. Then made it appear again with all gold, and then he gave it to the man.

Hari-śauri: And then he produced gold ring and stuff like this.

Prabhupāda: This is magic.

Hari-śauri: Still, even if he can do those things, it's only mystic siddhi. That doesn't mean to say he's God or an avatāra or anything. But these people are so foolish they think anybody with a little magic, he must be avatāra.

Pradyumna: They worship him as God. "Bhagavan Sai Baba."

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we must bring this man charges. "Ungodly face."

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. As soon as we decide to work for Kṛṣṇa very sincere. What is this Kṛṣṇa crossword? This is gambling.

Gargamuni: Kṛṣṇa crossword puzzle.

Hari-śauri: Oh. Crosswords are gambling?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Maṇihāra: Gambling?

Prabhupāda: Is it not gambling?

Hari-śauri: They give clues and it's to make you think.

Maṇihāra: They give a clue. They say...

Prabhupāda: But there is prize.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You have found out that portion?

Pradyumna: I'm just, I'm getting...

Hari-śauri: They were trying to get him to give some examples. So he refused. Then he produced this nut in his hand. Then he closed his fist and opened it again and the nut was there but this time it had a gold cross attached to it like this. And then he...

Prabhupāda: Now what is the result of showing these tricks? What is the ultimate result?

Indian man: B.N. Sarkar shows much better tricks than that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. B.N. Sarkar, he was going on cycle in London, busy street and his eyes bound up. Everyone has seen it. He was going on cycle in busy... Ordinary street he was going, and his eyes were bound up. Everyone has seen.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: To give your fruits of, result of your fruitive activities, either you give to yourself or to your brothers and sisters, it is the same thing. Expanded. Just like a child eats, but when he is little grown up, he gives to his brother also. But the principle is the same. But when you give everything to God, that is liberated stage. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi dadāsi yat kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. "Whatever you do, you give me Me, whatever you eat, you give to Me." Yad aśnāsi dadāsi yat (BG 9.27). "You want to give in charity, you give to Me." (pause) We have to cross this hill?

Mr. Malhotra: Yes, we have to cross the hill. And then we again go on plain, then to cross another hill. But they are small, only three, four miles. We have already crossed one near Poona. That was also a small. This is called Kandalakat. That was called Kaprij. Some Kaprij Rishi I think. Ah, there's the name, Kaprij. (break)

Mr. Malhotra: Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana. And Bombay.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And that is being supported, "Oh, they are CIA."

Guest (1): So I talked at great length with Girirāja, and I cross-examined him thoroughly with all these Indians who would be thinking about this Hare Kṛṣṇa because when I said that I have become a life member of yours, then he also might have been bit surprised, but mainly I wanted to impress upon my children—they're young boys—that "It's all right. You also go there."

Prabhupāda: Once spoiled, it is very difficult.

Guest (1): Very difficult.

Prabhupāda: To reform.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: They supposed to look cross-eyed? In order to look at the tip of the nose...

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Jagadīśa: ...you have to look cross-eyed?

Prabhupāda: Why cross? You see, just easy, simply. That's all. This...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They can sit straight and also look.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This has to be practiced. And then they should be given lesson on six or seven verses very elaborately, and they will hear.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They should sit like this, and then they should hear.

Prabhupāda: So simple thing.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Right before the gate. That is... I was under the impression that belonged to some Christian man.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is first. After crossing the road, the corner.

Hari-śauri: Where the parikrama path is.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is available for...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually that would be good if we get that. It's right next to our temple.

Prabhupāda: So why not try for that? You can get it, I am sure.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I'm going to Vṛndāvana in ten days.

Prabhupāda: So if we can get that land, then we can divert our sewer in the land and utilize it for nice agricultural purposes. So instead of spending lakh of rupees for municipality, why not acquire that land?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Acquire or buy? Acquire.

Prabhupāda: Acquire means you have to pay, but government...

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I had such experience. I had some experience in my childhood in 1911. I was thirteen years old. There was a riot. So our house was there in Mahātmā Gandhi Road, and all sides Muhammadans. We are simply... The Mulliks and our house are simply some respectable men. Otherwise it was surrounded (surrendered?) by... That is called Kwalabala and Bastik, all Muhammadans, backside fully Muhammadans. So the riot was there, and I went to play. There is a square, Marker(?) Square. So I did not know the riot has taken place. I was coming home. So one of my class friends said that "You do not go to your house. That side is rioting now." So because we are in the Muhammadan quarter, this fighting between two parties, that was going on. It is usual. So I thought it may be like that, that two guṇḍās are fighting. I have seen. One guṇḍā is stabbing the other guṇḍā. I have seen. And they are pickpockets. When you are passing they would... I have seen, he is pickpocketing. (laughter) And they were our neighbor men. So I thought "It must be like that. This is going on." But when I came the crossing of Mahatma Gandhi... At that time Harrison Road it was.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Calcutta Marwaris, they speak very fluently. Yes.

Mr. Gupta: Fluently. Being in railways I've had about eight cross-country transfers. Rajkot, Ajmer, Bombay, Ahmedabad, Lohar(?). So I know as much of Gujarati and Marwari too.

Prabhupāda: Rajastani?

Mr. Gupta: Rajastani. Hindi is the mother tongue for Rajastani.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hindi is understood everywhere. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā, what you have learned?

Mr. Gupta: The only thing that I have been able to learn is we... I was told so, quite.(?) By keeping our mind and heart strict, we should do our work as belonging to best āśrama as best as possible. But the human beings tend to twist "as best as possible" in their own way. And that... When the realization comes... (break)

Prabhupāda: Do you realize that the modern civilization is misguided? (break) ...is the quintessence of Bhagavad-gītā. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Glāniḥ. The people are misguided. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. He's Dr. Patel. He's Mr. Gupta, a railway officer. He arranged for our tickets.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is not far away from the Sam... It is nearer. Rather, Allahabad main station is far away.

Mr. Gupta: You see, the way railways have organized it, Eastern Railway will...

Prabhupāda: So Naini, you are crossing the river or this side of the river?

Mr. Gupta: By special, we will not cross the river. By through-going trains, we will cross the river.

Dr. Patel: If you cross the river, then you go to Allahabad main station.

Mr. Gupta: So Varanasi Express will go to main station. That special would not have gone to main station. It would have caused you inconvenience.

Prabhupāda: So they will receive from Allahabad station our men?

Dr. Patel: You have to tell them to...

Hari-śauri: We'll have to telegram to Gurudāsa to tell when we're coming.

Dr. Patel: There will be huge, I mean, traffic blocking and all those things. No? (break)

Prabhupāda: Fifty years before, when I was in Allahabad, 1920's, there was Kumbhamela. Then forty lakhs people came, fifty years ago.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu (BG 9.29). God must be equal to everyone.

Dr. Patel: You are right. With that extreme faith, Jesus took to the cross. Huh? (break)

Prabhupāda: That is the greatness of the movement. (break)

Dr. Patel: We will be meeting with all people in the whole world. And you will be...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the oldest.

Dr. Patel: (laughing) Keep in my hand and walk. And I would say, sir, that you also should not take bath in cold water.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't take. I... Since 1970, 1966, '67, I am not taking cold bath. Before that, even in America I was taking twice cold water bath.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Hari-śauri: His own... One of his twelve apostles put him on the cross, Judas Iscariat. He was one of the original twelve. He betrayed Jesus for some money and put him on the cross, killed him. He killed him.

Prabhupāda: That's right. This is the history of your religion. You kill Jesus Christ; you deprive him.

Hari-śauri: There's still that point that when a person comes, he's coming voluntarily. We have no chance to deprive him of sleep or food, because he's living outside. He's not living inside.

Rāmeśvara: They say that when a man comes to join us, immediately we take away all his money and all his possessions, so in this way we are depriving him of his property.

Prabhupāda: That is individual surrender. We have not rendered that way. He surrendered individually.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: It was written for this purpose. People are suffering by their concocted culture, suffering. And Guru Mahārāja wanted this. Actually it is his mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But I am... I have tried sincerely. I am not qualified, but only qualification is that I tried to do the best. That's all, that much qualification. I had faith in their program, and I thought, "I shall try my best, whatever capacity I have got." That's all. Yasya deve parā bhaktir tathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Little confident that "Why? If Caitanya Mahāprabhu wants it, my Guru Mahārāja wants it, why it will not be successful? Let me try." That's all. Mukhaṁ karoti vācālaṁ panguṁ laṅghayate girim: "A dumb man can become orator." (laughs) It is like that. I never thought that they will praise so much. What it is possible? Mukhaṁ karoti vācālam. (laughs) "A dumb man can become orator, and a lame man can cross over the mountain." Yat kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam. By the mercy of guru it is possible. So these are not stories. They are fact. That is spiritual life. All right.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: That was the period when all the Europeans became very interested in traveling all over the world, and they discovered America, and they were very interested in coming to India for the spices. There was a great interest in India. Actually they say this man Columbus, he landed in America because he was looking for India, trying to cross the ocean, and he found this land America blocking his way.

Hari-śauri: That's how those islands became the West Indies, because he was looking for India, and he went West, and he hit some islands, and they call them the West Indies. Then later they went to America.

Prabhupāda: West Indies are South America.

Rāmeśvara: The Caribbean. Cuba, Nassau, Puerto Rico.

Prabhupāda: The southern part.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. South of Florida. So his main motive was how to find India, to get the wealth of India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Hm. So there was the minister Nizamuddin, I think, he helped him to go out. He was going for evening walk with police force and other. So it became accustomed. Police became lenient, in the meantime slipped. And in a dress of a Kābuli, Kābuli-wālā, Pāṭhan he crossed India. In this way he went there.

Bhāgavata: I heard he took the dress of a Muslim?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is called... Yes. This is called pāṭhan. So after going outside India, he organized this INA, Indian National Army. And Hitler helped him. Tojo also wanted to help him, but he had a plan.

Bhāgavata: Different motive. So Hitler, he had no...

Prabhupāda: No Hitler actually helped him, all the soldiers. And then the Sikh soldiers and Gurkha soldiers voluntarily surrendered to join INA. And this information obliged the Britishers to go away. Then "Now the army is joining national movement, so there is no hope." The Gandhi's noncooperation, the clerks' noncooperation the, some of these teachers' noncooperation what do they care for? But when they saw that "The soldiers are now going to join this non..." Gandhi diagnosed the disease rightly, that "The Britishers are here on account of our cooperation. Without this cooperation, they'll go away." That's a fact. So his noncooperation movement was... It was a good trick, but actually he did not succeed. And this movement succeeded. That "Now he's organizing Indian soldiers for national movement. There is no chance."

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Literally, not symbolically.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?"

Prabhupāda: It has no meaning. The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him. Because he was speaking of God. So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. He had to deal with such rascals that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. He preached, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed him first. This is their intelligence. Now people are advanced. Those doctrines, they are not (indistinct). That's all. The answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Did Jesus die on the cross to redeem all the sins of the world?"

Prabhupāda: This is another sinful thought—Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities. That's a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction. Instead of stopping sinful activities, we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is crossing. But...

Bhavānanda: The valleys.

Prabhupāda: ...the real Kashmir is the valleys. Five thousand.

Bhavānanda: Gargamuni says in those valleys it is very hot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was there?

Bhavānanda: He was either in Kashmir or right next to it, same area, Sivagudhi, Simla or someplace.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Simla, yeah, he was in Simla.

Bhavānanda: Very hot.

Prabhupāda: No, Simla is not hot. This Srinagar is not hot. I know that. I went there. I know. When I crossed, there was snow on the road. So when Guru dāsa will send his report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As soon as he meets Dr. Karan Singh. I told him to make detailed arrangements and give detailed report. You are eager to go there, I think.

Prabhupāda: Not very eager. I was eager only that if I simply get regular appetite, then the..., I can get some strength to work, that's all. So ask them to give me little orange.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Which... It is... Very much. One program is clear. I think our this Cross Maidan pandal has given the people study.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Bombay people.

Girirāja: When we meet people, they comment about it.

Prabhupāda: What do they say?

Girirāja: That "You had a very big program, and..." They know the theme also. They say, "Yes, the theme was modern civilization, and it failed, and the only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And then, having so many leading people praise your work...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually a letter came yesterday, I think, from the chief minister. I haven't opened it yet. Shall I bring it?

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Fan.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why don't you read other? Read it loudly.

Bhakti-caru: "Chief Minister lauds Krishna movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness was the essence of every faith and belonged to the world, Maharastra Chief Minister Mr. M. P. Chawan said at the Third International Hare Krishna Festival at the Cross Maidan in Bombay on Wednesday. Mr. Chawan lauded the work done by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Founder-Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. He said that Swami was responsible for popularizing Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. Speaking after the chief minister, Swami Prabhupāda emphasized the need for scientific understanding of the Bhagavad-gītā to solve the problems confronting humanity. 'When human society is without dharma,' he said, 'it becomes animal society.' The festival, scheduled to end on Tuesday, has been extended another five days."

Prabhupāda: So his wife also...

Mr. Rajda: But now, poor fellow, he's also going. That is his fate.

Prabhupāda: That's all. This is political struggle. It doesn't matter. A man is what he is. That's all. And to come to this field of activities, one has to become free from all designation. "I am the chief minister" or this or that, that is designation. So I have to give up.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore traditionally the sādhus will not go outside India. They won't cross the ocean.

Prabhupāda: And I took the risk. I told you the story, that I was keeping my foodstuff in the same Frigidaire that dog's flesh is here. What can I do? Circumstance. Therefore this rascal, Ginsberg, he used to say, "Swamiji, you are very conservative." And "You do not know what is conservative. I'm so lenient. You do not know what is the meaning of conservative," I used to reply him. If I was conservative, then for a single moment I could not stay here. Immediately I would have gone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But with yourself you were very conservative. With others you were very lenient, but in your own personal...

Prabhupāda: No, no, strictly I am not doing because I am keeping my foodstuff in the same Frigidaire where there is leftover and meat and dog's food is kept. (end)

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Therefore according to history, he retired. That is resurrection. He went to Kashmir. "It is hopeless."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't die on the cross.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible to kill him. Such a great personality, representative of God, he is not killed. That is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Simply by putting some wounds.

Prabhupāda: He made a show that "I am killed." That is resurrection. And when you finished your business, then he will go (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they say that when he got down they rubbed his body with oils.

Prabhupāda: He was a great yogi and so on.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: About Rāmāyaṇa. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is reference of Rāmāyaṇa. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the last writing of Vyāsadeva.

Ram Jethmalani: In last writing it may contain, but between the two of them, there is no cross reference of any kind. Now, a personality like Kṛṣṇa, when first set up, it must have become a phenomena at least.

Girirāja: But in the Gītā Kṛṣṇa says... He describes His different vibhūtis, and there He says, "I am Rāma."

Prabhupāda: "Amongst the warriors, I am Rāma." The reference is there. This very word is there. "Amongst the warriors, I am Rāma."

Girirāja: And it's also described that the great sages in the forest who were worshiping Rāma, they wanted to associate with Him in a particular way which was not possible because He was acting as the ideal king, so He said that "In My future appearance as Lord Kṛṣṇa, I will fulfill all of your desires."

Prabhupāda: And besides that, in the Vedic literature, Brahma-saṁhitā, this name Rāma is mentioned.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Good place.

Mr. Dwivedi: So this is a mile's, hardly, less than a mile's distance from our colony. And the river it is perennial river. We have to just cross it, and it gives good passage, particularly during this season. All seasons practically we go and go over the mountain and the temple. Then, on the roadside itself near our colony, there is a water temple. We call it Jagamandir(?). That is also a beautiful temple. It's like the (indistinct) type. And one story of that temple is always in the water. Even in the summer, when Your Holiness will go there, Your Holiness will find. And that is Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Mr. Dwivedi: And some of the photographs which were shown to me yesterday, I find the ditto in that temple, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Prabhupāda: Good place.

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The meaning, that "I am taking this sannyāsa for the purpose of crossing over the ocean of nescience." Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām. Parātma-niṣṭha, Bhagavān, Paramātmā. Simply to serve Kṛṣṇa... So here are three daṇḍas. One daṇḍa, person. There are four daṇḍas. He is person, "I am." And the other three daṇḍa—my mind... Kāya manaḥ vākya: my mind, my body and my words. "So I dedicate my mind, my body and my activities, parātma-niṣṭha, only for the service of the Supreme. So being situated in that position, following..." Pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. It is not that I have introduced something new. All big, big ācāryas, they took sannyāsa for this preaching work-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya even. And that is pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow maharṣibhiḥ. So "All ācāryas of India, they have taken sannyāsa, so I am also taking sannyāsa. The business is parātma-niṣṭha." So what will be the benefit? Ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāram: "This ocean of nescience is duranta-pāram. It is very, very difficult to cross over. But I'll cross over." How? Tamaḥ. This is darkness, tamaḥ. Mukundāṅghri-niṣevayaiva: "Simply by serving the lotus feet of Mukunda." Mukunda means "one who can give liberation, mukti." Mukunda. So chant again this.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. Causing everyone else means the same group. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. One who is blind, he can be cheated by another blind man. But one who is not blind, if the blind man wants to cheat him, that "I can help you crossing the room," he will laugh, that "This rascal is blind, and he has offered me to help me. We take this, that if a person is... We know that he is defective. His knowledge is imperfect. What knowledge he will give? Immediately reject him.

Harikeśa: He can give good knowledge on how to accelerate death.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. There is no question of his accelerating. It is already going on in this world. (pause) So many things we have to discuss. Is it not? People are in darkness in so many ways. Therefore we have to take the standard knowledge.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Could not cross to the other side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Then you said, "Perhaps Kṛṣṇa wants us to establish in Vṛndāvana and not Māyāpur." So you were going to send me to see this Madan Mohan to try to negotiate.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, forget the past. Push forward.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you once said that sometimes Kṛṣṇa tests to see how sincerely the devotee is determined.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa not only tests but punishes those who are criminals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Criminals.

Prabhupāda: Like Kṛṣṇa punished Durvāsā Muni. He was criminal against Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. Kṛṣṇa never tolerates. Vaiṣṇava may tolerate. Kṛṣṇa will never tolerate.

Showing of Planetary Sketches -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-Prema: Yeah, and he was presiding here. He was living here. And then he crossed this mountain.

Prabhupāda: Crossed?

Bhakti-Prema: Yes. And he conquered it. Not only he saw, he conquered it. And it is surrounded by five other oceans. And again this is surrounded by (indistinct). And is surrounded by (indistinct). Again there are ten mountains.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is what we're painting next.

Bhakti-Prema: Next time we'll show you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhū-maṇḍala, the whole Bhū-maṇḍala, these different oceans and dvīpas. That will be in color.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: First thing is, these people cannot cross the Himalayan mountain. (aside:) You can turn this light in this way, down. From my practical experience, I have seen Switzerland. It is so high, that so many accidents have taken place. Little inattention. They have experience. The plane goes thirty-two thousand feet high. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Thirty to forty thousand. Say forty thousand maximum.

Prabhupāda: Still they met with accident. But they are saying that Himalaya is twenty-eight thousand feet high.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maximum.

Prabhupāda: What is this? First of all answer this. Everything proposition is wrong. So how we can trust? What is the answer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We cannot trust them.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "You are imperfect. So whatever you have written, that is nonsense. And everywhere problem. Why should we waste our time?" Now just try to settle from point of. He's showing this book, I am showing the Bhāgavatam. So you are imperfect, that's a fact. What is the value of your book? If you are basically a rascal, then what is the value of your book? Why shall I waste my time? First of all I take it and I prove it that you are a rascal. You show your book, I show my book. But you have been proved that you are a rascal. Because practically you cannot cross Himalaya. You have no idea what is the Himalaya. You are giving some conflict.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That argument also I have refuted. Just like animal, he is bound up. He is rotating around the log, and within that there may be Japan, there may be Calcutta, there may be Los Angeles. You can think this is there. But that is not all. Within that rounding circle, whatever is there, you may think this is all. But that is not all. He's limited condition. So within his limitation (Bengali). Within that limitation he's speaking. But Himalaya and other things, far beyond their limitation. That I have already explained. He's speaking within his limitation. Our position should be, correctly represent what is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But if there is some question, we should ask. Just like I am answering to the reasonable point. That if you are conditioned, within your condition you can see, you can experience, but beyond that you have no right to see. What is Los Angeles, Calcutta, Japan, this is very insignificant space. And they're talking of that. We are talking that Himalaya mountain, we have crossed over Himalaya, we conquered the outer space. How they can think of it?

Bhakti-prema: How to take them to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: There is no question of take them. If you take, he's all right. If you don't take, we cannot change.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-prema: That has already been proved.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You're simply insisting on things by "probably." "Probably beyond the Himalaya there is something." That is one thing. We say "Definitely, here is. Beyond the Himalayas like this, that." That is the difference. You say "probably," I say "definitely." Father, mother said, "Here is your father." You can say "probably," and mother is saying "definitely." She knows perfectly. You may say probably he may be your father, but mother knows that definitely. Therefore we take Vedas as mother, Purāṇas as sister. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is explaining it. Iti śuśruma. But śuśruma, why he should waste his valuable time? He knows it is definite. So unless you come to this standpoint that whatever is spoken in the Vedic literature, that is definite, you cannot be convinced by argument. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā nāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Śukadeva Gosvāmī said—that's all. Mahājano yena. Vaiyāsakiḥ.

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ
prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
balir vaiyāsakir vayam
(SB 6.3.20)

These mahājanas. This is our argument. And for common-sense argument, the Himalaya is very, very high. Very, very broad. You have never crossed and you have met with so many accidents. They avoid that portion, flying plane. And I have seen how high has it gone, then it will be in the clouds. Still they say twenty-eight thousand. Huh? Twenty-eight thousand?

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) That Bombay kavirāja was also hopeless.

Hari-śauri: Today's was as well?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. That Bombay kavirāja was a businessman. He had a Seiko watch on, special Cross pen, pān in the mouth. He was a pākā bāniyā. (Prabhupāda coughs up mucus) This man appears to be a genuine kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: I think so. So are you sending him telegram?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'll do that right now.

Prabhupāda: Where is Haṁsadūta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to see him?

Prabhupāda: I'll sit down.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Strong eye, but looking third class. (Bharadvāja laughs)

Bharadvāja: We're also showing that human life means responsibility. Even on an ordinary level we are showing that a man may break a law and he's punished, but a dog, he's not punished for breaking man's law. He may cross the street in the wrong place, he is not punished by the law, but the man is. Animals are walking without clothes, but if a man goes out in the street without clothes, he's arrested. So we are making the point here that man is held responsible for his actions, whereas animal is not. And then we show... The conclusion of this is "Therefore human life has responsibility to engage in the pursuit of knowledge and advancing, not degrading himself." Then we want to show that misuse of this human form of life, or giving up that responsibility, has created a chaos in the world, that the world has become full of madness and fear and pain, and the whole civilization is misguided. We want to show on film, side by side, U.N. politicians barking in U.N. and cats and dogs barking in the street.

Prabhupāda: That is explained by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Māyār bośe, jāccho bese.

Bharadvāja: Khāccho...

Prabhupāda: Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song. Those who have eyes to see, they will see all of them being washed away by the waves of māyā, hābuḍubu.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Here in one room, always closed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That's a fact. It's closed. I felt it today, especially when you were translating. It got a little stuffy. When one can move around easily, then this house is very first class. But because the rooms are such design, if one has to stay in one room, then it can get a little bit stuffy. Just like here the only opening is from one side. In Māyāpur we'll get the cross ventilation.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very healthy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Perhaps there are also some good vegetables or fruits that may be in season in the winter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vegetable boiled. Fresh vegetables. I can take little.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Than what I will do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, why don't we decide that when the time comes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we cross that hurdle when the time comes.

Prabhupāda: It is already come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, no, because we're still saying "in case."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Because I don't feel appetite for anything except that little one sip barley and one sip juice.

Page Title:Cross (Conversations)
Compiler:Mayapur
Created:01 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=146, Let=0
No. of Quotes:146