Expressions researched:
"crazies"
|"crazily"
|"craziness"
|"crazy"
Woman: If you live with people... If you live around people and they say offensive things, because they are ignorant or they are sinful as you say...
Prabhupāda: Try to excuse them.
Woman: Do I leave...
Prabhupāda: As far as possible.
Woman: Excuse them. I shouldn't move out of there?
Prabhupāda: Yes. As far as possible tolerate.
Woman: Tolerate.
Prabhupāda: They are all crazy. Yes. They are crazy.
Prabhupāda: Practically Gītā Press has flourished simply by selling the Rāma-carita-mānasa and Gītā. Gītā and Rāma-carita-mānasa. Two books. Millions of books they print and sell, this Rāma-carita-mānasa and Bhagavad-gītā. So he has written that din ka dakini. In the daytime she is just like what is called, witches. Witch? Witch?
Brahmānanda: Witch, yes.
Prabhupāda: Ḍākinī. And rat ka bhāginī. At night she is tigress.
Devotee: She's what?
Brahmānanda: Tigress.
Prabhupāda: Tigress. At daytime she is witches. Witch or witches?
Brahmānanda: Witch.
Prabhupāda: Witch. And at night she is tigress. So that is the nature of woman. But the world is so made that everyone is keeping such tigress. (laughs heartily) Din ka ḍākinī rat ka bhāginī. (Hindi) Every moment she is sucking blood. She is such a dangerous tigress. Every moment sucking blood. But (Hindi) the people, the world, people of the world has gone so crazy that each one is keeping one tigress. (laughs)
Brahmānanda: Right in the home.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Tulasī dāsa's remark. So in many passages of his poetry he has not done very justice to woman.
Allen Ginsberg: I think I told you I had darśana with Jagannātha.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you have?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes. I got inside the temple. I was silent and made believe I was a mad, a madman. I had long hair, and I had pyjamas, white khadi, khadi cloth.
Prabhupāda: Just like some Punjabi.
Allen Ginsberg: So I went inside. And when anybody came to ask me anything, because I was afraid of opening my mouth...
Prabhupāda: There is no enemy of a dumb. Bhuvar śatru nyāya.
Allen Ginsberg: So I just kept my mouth closed and got down on my knees and touched their feet. So they all thought that I was crazy, and so they kept away from me. (laughter) So I got inside.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. So you had a nice view of Jagannātha?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Allen Ginsberg: It was very beautiful. I was there about..., with Peter also, about a week, a week there.
Prabhupāda: So you saw once or several times?
Allen Ginsberg: One time. I was afraid to go in and out many times. I figured I got away with it once, and I didn't want to...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you tell me something about Caitanya's initiation in Vaiṣṇava faith? When He was initiated?
Prabhupāda: After His father's death it is the custom amongst the Hindus to offer oblations at Gayā. There is a temple, Viṣṇu temple. They offer prasādam. This is a Hindu custom. And with that prasādam the forefathers and the father is offered. So He went to perform that ceremony and by chance He met Īśvara Purī and He was initiated by Īśvara Purī. And after coming back from Gayā, He became very much emotional for Kṛṣṇa, and sometimes people thought that He has become crazy. So His mother treated with some oil. But learned devotees, they said that He has got devotional emotion. So His initiation was in Gayā, when He went to perform that ceremony. So you can show the Gayā temple or some temple. And He's offering oblations, He's meeting His spiritual master, he's initiating. In this way you can make it two, three scenes. And He became emotional chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa after initiation.
Prabhupāda: Now just try to understand Christian religion is good, provided the followers of the Christian actually follow. But they are not following. They are not following. They are simply artificially stamping, "I am Christian." In the Christian religion the first order is thou shall not kill." But the Christians are very expert in killing. So who is Christian? First of all let me see. Their First Commandment is, Lord Jesus Christ, that "Thou shall not kill." Now, every one is killing and still he is Christian. So this kind of Christian religion, or Hindu religion, what will be the benefit? If you don't follow, simply you stamp yourself that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim..." That is going on. Nobody is Christian. Nobody is Hindu. Nobody is Muslim. Everyone is demon. Everyone is demon. That is our proposal. There is no Christian, there is no Hindu, there is no Muslim. That is our proposal.
Journalist (1): Except people who have accepted the Kṛṣṇa consciousness presumably. That...
Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy. First of all, you were talking about the Christian religion. I say that Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion, there may be different religions, but what is the aim of religion? That you should understand. The aim of religion is to know God. If you profess some religion, but if I ask you what is God, if you cannot explain, then what is the use of your becoming religious?
Journalist (1): Probably none. But people like to have, or seem to like to have a religion.
Prabhupāda: They don't like. They don't like God. They don't like God. As soon as somebody speaks of God, "They say they are crazy." So actually there is no Christian, no Hindu, no Muslim. All demons. That's all.
Prabhupāda: The material ingredients are supplied by God. The intelligence is also given by God. So by God-given intelligence, by God-given ingredients, you are preparing something, and you are claiming that "It is mine." Why? Suppose if I give somebody intelligence, "You make this table like this," I give ingredients, I give him money, then after the table is manufactured, if the carpenter says, "It is mine," is that proper ? I have given you money, I have given you the wood, I have given you the intelligence, I have maintained you. How it belongs to you? So this is going on. Everything God's, and we are claiming "Mine." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is called illusion. I am not the proprietor, but I am thinking I am... This is called illusion. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to remove this illusion, to accept the real fact. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is nothing that is (indistinct) manufactured artificially. To come to your real position. Just like a madman has got in some consciousness. He's thinking so many crazy ways. That sort of consciousness will not help us. If we actually come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is our perfection. (break) God is the proprietor, God is the enjoyer, and God is the maintainer. Three things. So our, this movement is nothing new. It is oldest and authorized. So now if we can push on this movement, that is the greatest welfare activity in the human... (end)
Prabhupāda: This Lord, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, is worshiped by saṅkīrtana yajña, and those who are intelligent, sumedhasaḥ, sharp brain, they worship this Lord by saṅkīrtana. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. And, therefore, we worship Him with saṅkīrtana. This picture, He is being worshiped by saṅkīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti (SB 11.5.32). And they are all big men Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and others, followers. That is the proof. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, He is fair complexioned, but He is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam iti, He is describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. These are the statement, and He is doing exactly the same thing. His accepting sannyāsa order is also mentioned in the śāstra. So everything we have to accept through three channels: sādhu, śāstra, guru. Saintly person, they you should accept; guru you should accept; and it must be mentioned in the śāstra. Guru cannot manufacture something. He must quote from the śāstra and then tell to his disciple. So disciple, as soon as he receives a message from guru corroborated by the śāstra, then he should take it as fact. This is the way. Why there should be any more doubt? What is your argument?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no argument, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's just the conditioning of the mind, the trouble of the mind.
Prabhupāda: That is different. That is different. Manodhara. Manodhara means those who are conditioned by the mind, their statement is not accepted according to our philosophy. Because he has no value.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They have to be cured.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They have to be cured.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Crazy.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So a crazy man's statement is not accepted. Child's statement, crazy man's statement, unauthorized person's statement, blind man's statement, we cannot accept.
Prabhupāda: So naturally we cannot violate the destiny, but if we do it, then we suffer(?). But our destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa when we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we do not do, but Kṛṣṇa will do. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I shall give you protection." So that change takes place for my protection by Kṛṣṇa. There are two stages: nondevotee and devotee. The nondevotee is under the control of material nature, and devotee is under the direct control of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a big man. In the office there are many employees, they are controlled by different departmental superintendent. But the small man at home is controlling his children directly. The controller, he is controller both in the office and factory and home, but at home he is controller directly; outside home he is controller indirectly. But he is controller always. Similarly, God is controller always. When one becomes devotee, he is controlled directly by God. When he is nondevotee, he is controlled by His agent, māyā. But he has to be controlled. Just like every citizen of America is controlled by the government. When he's all right, his civil department controls him. When he's not all right, then the criminal department controls him. But he cannot say that "I am not controlled." That is not possible. If somebody says, "I am not controlled," he is not sane. He is crazy. Everyone is controlled. So either you be controlled directly by God or you be controlled by his agency. Being controlled by māyā, you spoil your life. That means you remain in the material existence, one after another. You simply change your body. But if you give yourself to be controlled by God, then after this body you go back to home, back to Godhead. Then your life is successful. You cannot be without being controlled. That is not possible.
Sumati Morarjee: Because you are tired, oldly. I'm going to preserve this mālā.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Sumati Morarjee: I put it, give it to my daughter. She is very fond of roses.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes
Sumati Morarjee: Oh yes, she's crazy...
Prabhupāda: How old is she now?
Sumati Morarjee: She's ten. Today I'll, starting today in the afternoon, I remembered so much that I wish Swamiji was here, she gave a Manipuri dance recital in our office, and became Rādhā.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.
Prabhupāda: This human life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, what is the difference between cats and dogs and human beings? If simply eating, sleeping, and sex life, and defend is the business of human life, then these things are there in the animal life also. They also eat. They also sleep. They have also sex life, and they also defend according to their capacity. We defend with atomic bomb and they defend their own nails and claws. The different spirit is there. So that is not the aim of human life. The aim of human life—this opportunity's given by nature to have a human form of life—is to understand God. Nobody can deny—unless he is a crazy fellow—the existence of God. That is not possible. There must be. I may know it or not know it, it doesn't matter. Therefore religion means to understand God and to awaken your dormant love for God. This is religion. Now there may be difference of process, according to country, time, people. Therefore, it is the duty of the government, it is the duty of the government... Hare Kṛṣṇa (someone enters). Formerly the kings, they were regularly supervising that their citizens were properly executing religious culture. That was government's duty. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). So now government is callous about religion. I'm very glad to know that your government has left some department to supervise.
Prabhupāda: Churches, churches are now being sold. In London, have you been in London? There are hundreds and thousands of churches, they're simply (indistinct), nobody goes there. Not only in England, in America also. In America still, they are going on, because there are (indistinct) churches, but in England I will say, it is (indistinct). Very, very nice, you have been to (indistinct)? (indistinct) ...so excellent church, there is one flaw, very big church, well constructed. Now the church authority, desiring that the somebody, he's imagining (indistinct), he's imagining that this is such a nice church so our... Government has sent somebody to take this church, he's thinking Americans may take... No, why Americans will be interested to take the church, as it is... But he's thinking... That means he wants to dismantle the church. But church now will not allow. He's finding out some customer who will take the church (indistinct). So their headquarter land is very valuable. So if the land is vacated, then you may have a little church and other land he can utilize for himself. That is his proposition. And so far purchasing the church, there may be, but others will purchase the church for dismantling and making a nice skyscraper building. They do not want actually. Church now will not allow. We say that we shall not dismantle the church, we shall utilize it as temple. We says... Crazy idea (indistinct). But my point is that church is so excellent, huge amount of money has been spent, and nobody...? (pause) (Hindi) So I chastised them, fools and rascals in meeting, but they did not protest. They accepted my chastisement.
Revatīnandana: He said, how do you envisage that one should act. How should one act? He's asking.
Prabhupāda: That you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like Arjuna. He was a kṣatriya, a warrior, but he acted on account of Kṛṣṇa. We are acting, but we are acting at the present moment for our sense gratification. Everyone is thinking that "If I do like this, it will give me great satisfaction." That is my sense gratification. I am acting for my satisfaction, not for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. So when we act for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, that is the perfection. Then we save the material pollution. This is the secret. Arjuna is a good example. Before fighting, he was thinking in terms of his own satisfaction. But when he understood Bhagavad-gītā and he agreed to act for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, then he became perfect. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that we do not say immediately to stop. Just like "Cars, Profits and Pollution," the very nice description of these three things. But there is no suggestion of remedy. That he does not know. If he suggested remedy, "Now stop all cars driving," or "Stop this nonsense business," that is impossible. That is craziness. So we do not say that you stop it. But we say, purify it. Just like there is pollution. So pollution is there. You cannot stop manufacturing cars or driving cars. That is not possible. But you can purify the pollution. That is possible.
Guru-gaurāṅga: We were also discussing with Mrs. Conan Doyle and a friend of hers, how is it, if I'm thinking I am happy, or I do not have love for God, nor do I want to have love for God, how will I cultivate it?
Prabhupāda: Well, because at the present age we are in crazy or mad condition... What is called? Deformed brain. Therefore we cannot become. There is a poetry. Piśācī paile jana moti chana haya (?). As one becomes crazy when it is ghostly haunted, similarly a person under the clutches of māyā, he becomes also crazy like that. He talks all nonsense. How he can understand about God? Big, big hospitals in America for curing this craziness. Not only of the common being. Even for the priests. In America, they have got hospital for curing alcoholic habit of the priest. Five thousand patients. So he's alcoholic and he's in the priestly dress. This is going on. Because he's getting his salary, so he's maintaining his priestly dress. But internally, what he is, he knows only. Or when he comes into the open eyes, then one can know: "Oh, here is a priest, admitted in the alcoholic hospital."
Haṁsadūta: But they consider it to be God's flaw.
Prabhupāda: No, why God's flaw.
Yogeśvara: Because He has given us the chance to fall down.
Prabhupāda: Independence means that you may obey me or not obey me. It is not my flaw. Otherwise, independence has no meaning. Independence has no meaning. If I give you independence... Just like Kṛṣṇa is giving independence to Arjuna: "Now I have explained to you everything. Now I give you independence. Either you accept or not accept, that is your position." So if this independence has no such quality, acceptance... That is not independence. If one has to be forced by the law of God, that is not independence. Then one does not know what is the meaning of independence.
Yogeśvara: Then why has He given us independence if...
Prabhupāda: Yes, He must give because we, He, He has got...
Yogeśvara: ...if we misuse it?
Prabhupāda: He has got, He's the Supreme Independent, and living entities are part and parcel of God. Therefore you must have independence. Otherwise, how he becomes perfect part and parcel?
Guru-gaurāṅga: And if he did not have independence, that would be the flaw.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be the fault.
Bhagavān: That makes everything complete.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Independence means that you can do or not do. That is independence.
Bhagavān: Their definition of perfect is wrong. Just like this boy's definition of a poet.
Prabhupāda: He's a rascal. He's simply bogus. He's trying to... There are so many parties like that. They're four or five, they make a group and imitate these Beatles. As if... Beatles have made money. They'll also make money. That is the... And speak all nonsense. That's all. These are crazy fellows. So independence means that you can do or not do. Just like you, as a nation, American nation, or English nation, you are all independent. But why you go to the jail? Is it government's fault that you go to the jail? Therefore government has fault? Why this nonsense question. When a man, instead of going to the university, goes to the police custody, is it government's fault? Is it?
Haṁsadūta: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? It is a common sense affair. The God has given you independence. If you do something wrong, against the will of God, then you must suffer. Therefore we find so many varieties of living entities. In different grades of life. That is due to misuse of independence.
Prabhupāda: When one is too much affected with the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, passion and ignorance... What is this kāma? Lusty and greediness. These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-guṇa. So then therefore we see that all people are lusty and greedy. So as soon as he becomes cleansed, come to the standard of goodness, these two qualities cannot affect him anymore. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). One has to take the process. And it is simple process. Simple... And that, that is actually happening, in our practical experience. They say, they say... They are all rascals, fools. They can say anything and everything. Pāgale kim abole chāgale kiṁ na khāoyā. In the Bengali it is said: A madman, what does he not speak? He speaks any nonsense. And a goat, what does he not eat? So if you keep a madman... They are keeping them mad... That is our protest, that why you are keeping all people mad, crazy, nonsense? And you are also teacher, university? They have no knowledge that what is the aim of life. That you have to protest. So as we gradually increase our strength, our number, we have to protest to the world that: "Why you rascal and fools, keeping the whole human society in darkness? You have no knowledge." Here God says that: 'Under My direction the prakṛti's working.' You have no knowledge. You are saying that there is no aim. Without aim, why God should create this, such a big gigantic manifestation. Why He should take responsibility?
Prabhupāda: So so 'ham means qualitatively one with God, the Supreme. That not means that "I am the Supreme Lord." That is nonsense.
Guest (1): Ahaṁ sa brahma.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): Ahaṁ sa brahma.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Brahman, the spirit soul is Brahman. Ahaṁ sa brahma. Kṛṣṇa is paraṁ brahma. Paraṁ dhāma pavitram, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. The paraṁ brahma. Kṛṣṇa is called paraṁ brahma, and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are Brahman. The drop of water and the vast water. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, Supreme Person, and we are also persons, but not Supreme Person. Do you think you are Supreme Persons? Anybody? So anyone thinks that "I am Supreme Person," he is a crazy fellow, madman. He can say: "I am person. Kṛṣṇa is a person. I am also person." That is all right. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is Vedic version. (break) Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234).
Guest (3): At what stage could one say that a person is Kṛṣṇa conscious? There must be a beginning stage...
Prabhupāda: He has no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): And only then he's Kṛṣṇa conscious person?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He has no other business than Kṛṣṇa's business.
Guest (3): And if everybody became Kṛṣṇa conscious?
Prabhupāda: Then everybody's becoming liberated. Where is the harm?
Guest (1): Does he mean he has to...?
Prabhupāda: Why to lament? "Oh, everyone is becoming good men. Nobody's coming in the prison." It is to be lamented? That nobody's coming in the prison house, it is very good news. But that will not take place.
Guest (3): Should it affect the normal duties?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (2): Should it affect the normal duties?
Prabhupāda: Real duty is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is normal duty. All, all other duties are abnormal duties, crazy duties. Just like pāgala, they're all crazy.
Anyone who's under the clutches of māyā, or madness, what is the value of his duty? Śrama eva hi kevalam. He's simply spoiling his time.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who's under the clutches of māyā, or madness, what is the value of his duty? Śrama eva hi kevalam. He's simply spoiling his time. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Just like you have come here, a little tendency for hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Your life is succ..., on the path of success. And there are other, millions, they're not interested. So, for them, the śāstra says, "They're simply working like cats and dogs." Just like dogs sometimes goes very fast this way, that way, that way, they're passing with motor car, this way, (makes barking sound) "Onh, onh, onh, onh, onh, onh." They're simply spoiling time. In America, I have seen, always, (makes automobile noise:) "sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh." Here also. But we see these rascals spoiling time. But that will not appeal to the rascals. They'll say, "They are spoiling time. What these rascals are dancing Hare Kṛṣṇa on the Fifth Avenue?" They think, "Oh, they are crazy fellows." Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. They are thinking us as in darkness. I am thinking, we are thinking, "They are in darkness." This is going on. But who is in darkness, that is to be decided by the supreme judgement of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore I have written one, that book, Who is Crazy?
Devotee: Who is Crazy?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: That's a new book?
Prabhupāda: No, old book.
Indian Woman: But, Guru Mahārāja, one has to do her duty as advised.
Prabhupāda: You do not know what is your duty, first of all. A madman, he does not know his duty.
Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they would say that that is braveness. they are brave in trying again and again.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must say. That is their rascaldom. One who goes, braveness, go to the Pacific Ocean and die, and go to hell. That is their braveness. That is their braveness. They are bravely going to hell. That's all. There is a story, palavarne boi nate(?). One man is chasing another man. So the man who is chased, he's asked, "Why you are fleeing away, fleeing away?" So, "Am I afraid of you? Why shall I not flee? Why shall not go? Am I afraid of you." He's fleeing out of fear, but still, he says, "Am I afraid of you? Am I afraid of you? Why shall I not? Why shall I stop?" This is the position. "Bravely I am going to hell. Why shall I stop? I am brave." This is going on.
Hṛdayānanda: It's crazy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, crazy. This is stated:
"Just like when a man becomes crazy, ghostly haunted, he speaks all nonsense, similarly, anyone who is under the influence of this material energy, he's crazy." He's crazy, talks all nonsense. That's all. (break)
This is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's... "Why you are being carried away by the waves of māyā and you are becoming drowned and sometimes up, sometimes down? Why you are wasting your life in that way?"
Yaśomatīnandana: So he says that "You take the knowledge. You see the light, and you take the knowledge from Guru Maharaji."
Prabhupāda: But you have taken the knowledge, why cannot you describe it. That means although you have got your Guru Maharaja, still you are in darkness. So what is the use of this Guru Maharaja? You are in darkness because you cannot explain. You're asking me to go to Guru Maharaja. But if you are enlightened, why you cannot explain? Therefore you are in darkness. They are useless as guru. You have not... He's a garu. He's garu.
Yaśomatīnandana: Garu is mad, crazy.
Prajāpati: They claim to see light inside, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but we say, "If we hit you on head, you will see light inside also."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that everyone sees. What is your credit? If I kick on your face, you will find the light. So come here, I shall kick on your face and you'll see the light. (laughter) There is no need of Guru Maha...
Yaśomatīnandana: His disciples are usually very naive and very foolish.
Prabhupāda: Unless they are foolish, how they can go there? Anyone who goes there, that means he is a foolish. That is the test. "A man is known by his company." Because all these rascals and fools go there, therefore he is a fool and rascal. It is concluded.
Devotee: They are attracted by wonderful things such as Sai Baba. He is doing so many wonderful things. People...
Prabhupāda: That is, means rascal. He does not see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful. If you want to see wonderful things, why don't you see the more wonderful things? But they are foolish; they are captivated with small wonderful things. That means less intelligent. Just like small children, they will be amazed by seeing small wonderful things, but his father will not be. What is the amazement, wonderful thing, Sai Baba has done? If he is creator of gold, then why he is doing business of incense? You know that? He has a big incense business exactly like us. He can create gold? Why there is incense business? (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to give to His mother some gold when there was need of money. "Mother, I got this gold. So you can utilize it." The mother would think that "We are poor men, we have no gold. Wherefrom this boy brings gold?" So he (she) was doubtful because he (she) was thinking, "My son is mad, sometimes crazy." So he (she) would go, "Is it real gold? Just see." Then. "Yes, it is real gold." "Hm, how He got it?" You see. (break) ...many yogis, they make such gold for meeting their expenditures. Yes. Still in India they know how to make gold from copper. Yes. The process is they will drink mercury at night, and in the morning they will urine on the copper coins. And then, after some hours, the copper coins taken and put into the fire, it becomes gold. And it is scientific that some molecules of mercury, if mixed with copper, it is gold. Gold is combination of mercury and copper. But the people cannot mix it. They have tried. That is called alchemist. They tried to mix it. Because they do not know the process, as soon as mercury is put into fire, it immediately goes out. You melt copper, and in hot copper, if you put mercury, it will not melt together. Immediately it will throw away. So some of the yogis, they know. They digest copper, er, mercury, and it comes in the form, urine. And then the copper is put there. There is an interaction, and then put into fire. It becomes gold.
Gargamuni: So we should start manufacturing.
Prabhupāda: You first of all eat mercury then. (laughter) You'll be finished. (break) ...no scarcity. Why should we go to imitate the rascals? We have got enough gold. Kṛṣṇa is supplying gold whenever we require. (break)
Bhagavān: (break) It is very known that the family is very strong, the family attachment is very strong. In America, people separate from the family very early. And in France, the family attachment is so strong. And many people, many families have come and asked us if we will be able to open school here for their children too. The interest is there. Everyone is afraid of this present system of schooling. Because they send their children there, and they come back so crazy.
Prabhupāda: Rogues. Rogues. After education, they are rogues only (pause) (break)
Bhagavān: ...the original beauty.
Prabhupāda: Original beauty, just like animals. They remain naked. So the, the original beauty is animal. Because the animals, they do not dress. In the human society, they cover. Animals do not cover. Therefore original beauty is animal.
Satsvarūpa: They say that this is, the body is made by God. Why cover it up? Nakedness is the work of God.
Prabhupāda: No. God said that you should cover. (Some French boys in background are making mocking sounds, yelling, etc.) And they are becoming naked now. (yelling increases) What is that? They are laughing.
Satsvarūpa: Crazy.
Bhagavān: Do we go left, Harināma?
Harināma: To the right. (more yelling, Prabhupāda chuckles)
Bhagavān: When there is big kīrtana party, then they stop laughing very quickly.
Prabhupāda: What are these buildings?
Yogeśvara: This young gentleman's question is: if you are pierced with an arrow, it's not so much important to discuss how the arrow has got there. Just like you suggest we define the disease before we try to cure it.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not caring how the arrows, but you have got the arrows, you must take out the arrows.
Yogeśvara: That is his point also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the disease is because he has forgotten his own self, therefore he is suffering. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that actually that is the actual problem, to find out our real self.
Prabhupāda: Suppose a man, a sane man, has become insane. That insanity should be cured. Then he becomes a sane man. (French)
Yogeśvara: Yes, he must understand that he is crazy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He must know... He may understand or not understand. Somehow or other, he has become crazy. So if the craziness is cured, then he is normal man.
Bhagavān: Yogeśvara, let Pṛthu translate.
Pṛthu Putra: His point... He says if a man understands that he is crazy, then he is not crazy any more.
Yogeśvara: Prabhupāda says somehow or other, if he understands or not, if he gets cured of his insanity...
Prabhupāda: So the insanity is just like you are dressed and if you identify yourself with the dress, that is insanity. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says he agrees. That means to be identified with the appearance.
Prabhupāda: So that is insanity. We are actually the living force, soul, but we are identifying at the present moment with the material body. Everyone is thinking, "I am Japanese, I am Englishman, I am German, I am Indian, I am white, I am black," but that is his insanity. So this insanity should be cured, that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." And when he understand that he is spirit soul, he should be engaged in the business of the spirit soul. And because he is misidentifying himself with this body he is engaged with the bodily activities. So when he stops his bodily activities and he begins his spiritual activities, then he will be cured. So far bodily, I mean to say, pains and pleasure, that will be automatically cured when he understands that he is not body. Just like I feel heat and cold on account of this body. (French)
Prabhupāda: That is the astonishment. In India, they give me credit this, that "How it has become possible that these European boys, American boys and girls, they have taken to this path?" That they are surprised.
Yogeśvara: We don't have a very good reputation in India?
Prabhupāda: Very good reputation that you have become perfectly Vaiṣṇava.
Devotee: No, he means the western people themselves.
Prabhupāda: "They must be cynic, crazy, another edition of hippies." Like that, they say like that.
Devotee: They think that... They won't allow even a westerner to marry their daughter, because the westerners have a reputation of marrying for a week and then flying away. So they think like that of the people. Even our own men, sometimes the Indian girls wanted to marry the brahmacārīs, the American brahmacārīs, but the parents would not allow because they said, "After you are married a week, he will just run away back to his country and leave you here." So they are thinking like that about the westerners, that they, the life is so fast.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Another brahmacārī saved.
Prabhupāda: One of our man has done so. You know that Rāmānuja? The Mexican boy?
Devotee: There's that boy in Bombay he married one Indian girl.
Prabhupāda: He is staying.
Devotee: Jagat-puruṣa.
Prabhupāda: He has not left as yet. But he can leave any moment. (laughs) No. He is not American. He is devotee. Therefore he is reliable. (pause)
Mādhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, once you said that if we could remember our past life, we would go crazy because it is so frustrating to continue transmigrating.
Prabhupāda: Even in this life we experience so much frustration. Even if we remember now, we become horrible: "Oh, I was in this state of life, I was in this state of life." Immediately shudder. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has saved me." You should be obliged that Kṛṣṇa has given you shelter. You should... "Do not go again to that other platform." That is intelligence. The other day who was telling me that in Northern Pole, because there is no day, so many people commit suicide. Is it not?
Professor Durckheim: And I do believe that at the actual moment still, the treasure in the European peoples, the different peoples, who went through the war, through concentration camps, through battlefields and bombing nights, are hidden in their hearts certain moments when death was near and they were wounded and nearly torn in pieces. Because they had a certain experience they survived. And again and again, when I give a lecture, I have two or three people, waiting, telling me, "Now you just reminded me an experience long ago, ten days ago, two months ago, when I thought I was a little bit crazy, and now I understand it has been the experience, perhaps the most important of my life, on which I should have built my future inner way." And these experiences are still there. And once people understand, they don't need a war and a battleship and a concentration camp and a bombing night to take serious certain inner experiences when they are suddenly are touched by this divine reality, and they suddenly feel that this bodily existence is not lasting at all.
Prabhupāda: That's it. That we can experience every night.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, exactly.
Prabhupāda: The more we advance in so-called material, what is called, amenities, we forget God. We forget God. So the inherent, dormant, propensity is to become servant of God, but material association is checking him. Therefore if he... Just like now psychological treatment—a crazy fellow, he goes to the psychiatrist and he talks with him. Gradually, talking, talking, he cures him—similarly, these men who have forgotten or these living entity, if they associate with devotees and they constantly talk and hear about God, then again he revives his God consciousness. Yes. So we are, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or any other... We open many centers, and we talk, we sell our literature. His lordship has seen our books? You can show some of the books.
Prabhupāda: I said that if one engages himself in the service of the Lord some way or other, then the revelation, the original dormant God consciousness and love of God, becomes revived. Exactly in the same way: the psychiatrists, they treat the crazy fellow by talking, talking, talking some way. So if we talk of Kṛṣṇa, then the original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is revived. That is also stated. You find out in the Bhāgavata, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi... (SB 1.2.17). Yes, purport. So this is very important thing. Therefore we have published so many books about Kṛṣṇa—to hear. Hearing, hearing, hearing, and... Just like man is sleeping. You talk loudly, and he will be awakened. Yes. That's it.
Prabhupāda: ...that if we remain rascals, then that Gaurasundara's example will be followed. One day you'll again become crazy and close up everything and smoke. That's all. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, prāṇa arthe yaṅra sei hetu pracāra. "One who has got life, he can preach." The dead man cannot preach. So you become with life, not like dead man. Without life... Just like all my godbrothers. They are dead men. And therefore they are envious of my activities. They have no life. If you want to make easy-going life, showing the Deity and then sleep, then it is a failure movement.
Prabhupāda: The difference is transcendence is beyond our mind, bodily activities, mental activities or intelligence. The European philosophers and transcendentalists, they do not know actually what is transcendence. They understand that there is something, but they do not know what it is. Therefore they speculate by their imperfect senses. Gradually it becomes craziness. Therefore you find that defect.
Prabhupāda: I think I have explained this. Instead of contemplating what will happen to this world, you have got a short duration of life, say fifty, sixty years. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead. Don't consider what will happen to this world. The nature will take care of it. You don't puzzle your brain with these thoughts. You utilize whatever time you have got in your possession and go back to home, back to Godhead. (break) You cannot check it. Best thing is that you mold your life and go back to home, back to Godhead. "Oil in your own machine." Instead of thinking what will happen... They will happen. Because people will go on with their rascal civilization, natural consequences will be there. You better take advantage of whatever time you have got and become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious and go back to home. (break) ...and we are thinking, "You are crazy. You are losing the opportunity of life." Therefore I wrote that "Who is Crazy?" They have got this opportunity, human form of life, to make a solution of all problems, but they do not care for it. They are simply allured, the temporary happiness of this body, and the body will finish within some years. That they do not take care. They think it is all in all, body.
Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He said that say, for example, suppose that his parents were crazy and gave him the name "I am"...
Prabhupāda: But there is no business in crazy. We have no business with crazy. (some people are laughing and some are talking) All right, what is the time now? We have no business with crazy. This is practical. This is practical. If in the court the judge inquires, "What is your name," and if you say, "I am," he will immediately say, "He is a crazy man. Get him out." (several people start talking at once) This kind of knowledge has got no value. No, no. If he does not like to accept Kṛṣṇa as the name of God, he has got his name, say, Jehovah or Allah. That is all right.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says that nowadays psychiatry is not so much concerned just with crazy people, but it's just concerned with the human problems.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very good. So what is the human problem in their understanding?
Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives very shortcut formula that "You sit together, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be solved." Very simple thing: "Sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That also they will not do. There is no loss. Let us make an experiment—that also we are not executing. What is the loss? If we sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we are not losing anything. If there is some gain, why not make an experiment? So if you propose this to the United Nation, he'll think of me, "A crazy fellow."
Prabhupāda: Propaganda, it is propaganda. That's all. Propaganda, you can do any false thing (indistinct) say. This is called, propaganda is called in Bengali dāsa cakre bhagavān butha (?). Dāsa cakre bhagavān butha. Bhagavān, one gentleman's name was Bhagavān and he spread, conspired that let us, make us some joke that she has become ghost. So wherever he was going, the friend: "Oh, oh, a ghost, ghost, ghost, ghost!" (everyone laughs) "No, no, I am not..." (indistinct) ...this man has become crazy, why he (indistinct) Then he goes another friend, then he also says like that, "Oh, here is a ghost, here is a ghost, here is a ghost!" (everyone laughs) Then third friend, everyone, because they have conspired. Then he began to think, "I must have become ghost." (laughter) So certainly I'm... (indistinct) all friends have calling me, "Ghost, ghost." That's dāsa cakre bhagavān... If you make propaganda, if he's not ghost, you can make him ghost. This is propaganda. This is called propaganda. By propaganda you can establish a false thing as real. That's all. This is going on. They know how to do it. They're expert because they're cheaters. They know how to do it.
Amogha: Their whole idea of Indian history, of Vedic history, is completely perverted. When we say five thousand years ago Vyāsadeva compiled this in writing, they say, "There was no civilization five thousand..." They said, "Only two thousand years ago there was some tribes, and they were not very moral," and things like this, all completely nonsense, because they misread the Bhāgavata and things like this. And then they teach some of the students these crazy ideas. Not all of them, but I talked to some who teach like this.
Prabhupāda: The more you fight with these rascals, the more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are a fighting soldier. Kṛṣṇa very much appreciates. (long pause) So you take Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation, and I take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So who is right? Who will decide this? You interpret in your own way. I don't interpret. I take it as it is. Now we are two parties. So who is correct?
Harikeśa: Can a material calculation prove a spiritual fact?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: Can a material calculation prove...
Prabhupāda: No. Materialists cannot understand spiritual subject matter. It is not for them.
Harikeśa: So there is a project in Los Angeles where some psychologists are examining all the devotees.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: Some psychologists are there. They are doing a laboratory test on all the devotees.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he may study in his own way, but he will not profit.
Harikeśa: He will not profit. So this, the findings, even if they are published will not profit?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: The findings? They are going to...
Prabhupāda: So what is their findings? The devotees are working on the soul platform but he does not know what is soul.
Siddha-svarūpa: What are these experiments?
Harikeśa: They're really far out. Actually, they're crazy...
Prabhupāda: The psychology is on the mental platform.
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So what he will understand about spiritual platform?
Harikeśa: Actually they can't. They put these little things around fingers with wires and heads and they find that the readings are...
Prabhupāda: And our devotees also agreed to sit down like that?
Harikeśa: Yes. I thought it was ridiculous.
Śrutakīrti: They're probably getting some money for doing it.
Harikeśa: Every week they go, and every week another man comes, and they give all of these tests, psychological tests. We would say yes or no to different questions, material questions.
Prabhupāda: So why do they agree to?
Harikeśa: They're being, more or less, forced to.
Prabhupāda: Forced?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Śrutakīrti: They're probably being paid.
Upendra: This is referring to that, in that transcendental meditation they have a chart that after transcendentally meditating, they are calm. But the result is that after chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, the devotees are more calm, and they can remain calm more than this result of the transcendental meditation.
Harikeśa: But actually, that's not true because some...
Prabhupāda: That transcendental meditation, that is a bogus humbug. So they are making experiment. So in that way it is good for us, that they're better than transcendental meditation.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Because one of the main arguments against the movement is that we are crazy. So Dr. Gerson, it is his specialty in determining who is sane and who is crazy, and according to his observation, the devotees here are more sane than...
Prabhupāda: So kindly write one book, at least small book, supporting this movement. That will be great service. Actually this should be supported by all sane men, it is so nice. And practically, you see, Dr. Judah has admitted that "You have converted drug-addicted hippies into servant of Kṛṣṇa and servant of humanity." That he has written, that who likes us.
Prabhupāda: Because even if you find somebody diseased, still, spiritual consciousness is not hampered. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without any impediment. There is no checking. Just like in the Ganges water you will sometimes find the stool is floating there. But that does not mean the Ganges water has become polluted. It is practical. In Calcutta, in our childhood, I was taking bath in the Ganges with my father. Many gentlemen regularly takes bath in the Ganges. And the modern scientific method is: all the garbage, throw into the river. So we were taking bath, and here is some stool floating. So we used to drive away the stool and take bath. The stool is unable to pollute the Ganges water. You will find in India still. The advanced gentlemen... "The dirty water," they say, Ganges water. But you will find practically, that anyone who is taking regular bathing in this dirty water, he is healthy. You will find. It is very healthy. No disease touches him ordinarily. Of course, the body is susceptible to disease, but generally, those who are taking regular bath in the Ganges water, they are not diseased. You will find it practically still. So as the stool floating in the Ganges water cannot pollute the Ganges water, similarly, a devotee, even if you find scientifically that he is crazy or he is diseased, that is not impediment.
Dharmādhyakṣa: This Dr. Gerson, he comes to āratik and he likes to chant and dance.
Prabhupāda: This doctor?
Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So convert him also to be a devotee. Then that is another PhD.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, yes. He said he would love to come and teach at our college.
Prabhupāda: Very good. But he must give up his bad habits, illicit sex, meat-eating. At least they must give up.
Dharmādhyakṣa: He is giving them up. He says that he is becoming more sensitive.
Prabhupāda: If he chants, then he is purified.
Dharmādhyakṣa: He realizes this. All his psychologist friends, they are just crazy. They are not solving any problem.
Prabhupāda: So that's all right.
Bahulāśva: They're going crazy now in this country, Prabhupāda. Men are having operations to become like women.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a student here? (laughter)
Bahulāśva: He's in San Francisco. Or she's in San Francisco.
Prabhupāda: Why not woman become man? Then that will be nice. Manpower will increase. Because every country the population of woman is bigger than the man. So if a woman can be made into man, then manpower will increase.
Jayādvaita: Then the women will decrease.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of decrease. They are already increased. They will be equal quantity. (break)
Prabhupāda: And the highest brain substance in woman found, thirty-six ounce. So that proportion is always there. It may be twenty ounce, forty ounce, but brain substance in man is more than the woman. That is a fact, always.
Harikeśa: Is that in the Vedas also?
Prabhupāda: No, I am talking of the psychology. I have given the name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. When I was student, he said. So he is a great authority in psychology. So I have given the date. But they say, "Now they have improved." Then what can be said? But they could not improve this position: they have become pregnant. For the last hundred and thousands and millions of years, in the history we hear that woman is pregnant. We never heard the man is pregnant. So where is the progress? If you are actually making progress, so millions of years ago, the history we hear... Even Rāmacandra, millions of years, Lord Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. If you take history, now where is the improvement? Millions of years ago, Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. The law of woman's becoming pregnant, millions of years was there. And what improvement have they made now? They say, "We have made improvement." What is that improvement? Millions of years ago, Sītā, she became pregnant, and Rāmacandra did not become pregnant. Man did not. So what is the improvement at the present moment? Is there any instance, a man is now becoming pregnant. And not the woman? So where is the improvement?
Jagadīśa: Even all species of life it is the same.
Prabhupāda: Inauspicious?
Brahmānanda: In all other species...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even in animals, the female animal becomes pregnant. That is the law. So where is independence? Let them pass resolution that "Henceforward, man will have to become pregnant." Is it possible?
Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the whole civilization, American western civilization, is now bewildered by this theory of woman's liberation.
Prabhupāda: But how they will be liberated on this point? First of all let me know.
Jagadīśa: They're simply crazy.
Harikeśa: They may bring up the argument that they are not concerned that they have to bear children just as long as they can be superior.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This argument is like: "You go on beating me with shoes; still I am independent. I don't mind you are beating me with shoes, but I am independent." It is the argument like that.
Brahmānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is one lady. She would like to come and see you. She is the mother of one of our devotees. But she is coming wearing tilaka and a bead bag.
Prabhupāda: Very good. (pause) But I am not speaking of my experience. When we speak, we speak from the śāstra. So this woman's dependence is described in Manu-saṁhitā. And there are many instances. Just like Kuntī. Kuntī was not ordinary woman. She was very learned, exalted woman.
Brahmānanda: This is one point, that in our devotional line there are spiritual leaders who have been women such as Kuntī. She gave...
Prabhupāda: But still... Therefore I say. Still, she remained dependent on their son. That is is my proposition. Just like the sons, they lost the game and they were to be banished. Kuntī was not banished. So when the sons went to forest, Kuntī also followed because she thought that "I am widow. I am dependent on my sons. So wherever my sons will remain, I shall remain." She was not... She did not lose the game; neither she was ordered to go to the forest. Similarly, Sītā, Sītā, wife of Lord Rāmacandra. Lord Rāmacandra was requested by His father to go to the forest, not Sītā. Sītā was also a king's daughter. So she could go to her father that "My husband is going to the forest. Let me go to my father's house." She did not go. She preferred that "I shall go with my husband." So when husband said that "You are not banished. You stay at home," she said, "No. I am dependent on You. Wherever You shall go, I must go." This is Vedic culture.
Brahmānanda: Her chastity was her great virtue.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the thing.
Brahmānanda: Nowadays that is no longer true.
Prabhupāda: Nowadays may be different, but I am speaking of the Vedic ideas, that woman in all circumstances, unless the husband is crazy or something like that, mad, or..., in every case the instance is that wife is faithful and subservient to the husband. That is the Vedic culture. Even the husband goes out of home, vānaprastha, the wife also goes with him. When he takes sannyāsa, at that time there is no accompaniment of wife. Otherwise in gṛhastha life and even vānaprastha life, the wife is constant companion and subservient. That is the history of Vedic culture. History, Gāndhārī, because her husband was blind, so when the marriage settlement was done, she was not blind, but she voluntarily became blind by wrapping cloth.
Devotee (2): She remained with the cloth wrapped for her whole life?
Prabhupāda: Whole life.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Nowadays they're actually realizing their error and they're studying death more, trying to prepare people for death more. But the only thing they can tell them is, "Accept it." The only thing they can do is say, "You are going to die. So just accept it with a cheerful attitude."
Prabhupāda: But I do not wish to die. Why shall I be cheerful? You rascal, you say, "Become cheerful." (laughter) "Cheerfully, you become hanged." (laughter) The lawyer will say, "Never mind. You have lost the case. Now you cheerfully be hanged." (laughter)
Dharmādhyakṣa: That is actually... The whole goal of modern psychology is to make people adjust to the fact that they must stay in this material world and that if you have some desire to leave the material world, they will tell you you are crazy. "No, no. Now you must adjust more again to the material condition."
Bahulāśva: They teach you to accept the frustrations of life.
Prabhupāda: Why frustration? You are big, big scientist. You cannot solve?
Dharmādhyakṣa: They cannot solve because they have the same problems.
Prabhupāda: The same logic, "Cheerfully be hanged." That's all. As soon as there is some difficult subject, they give up. And they speculate on some nonsense thing. That's all. This is their education.
Jagadīśa: The reporters don't seem to have many questions. If you like you can speak.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Who will speak? She will speak?
Jagadīśa: If you like, you can speak or we can go.
Prabhupāda: You want me to speak? I can speak. Shall I speak? Yesterday in San Diego one press representative met me. So I told that America is advanced in material civilization, all comforts of bodily concept of life. But why the American young men are becoming hippies and crazy. Yesterday, I saw, some of the girls came almost naked. So why they are dissatisfied in spite of so much material advancement? They have got enough food, enough shelter, enough clothing, enough cars and everything. There is no scarcity. Why they are disappointed? Can you answer, why they are disappointed? It means they requires spiritual fulfillment of desire. That is the nature. When in the primitive stage of life, a man is concerned about the bodily comforts. And when one is advanced or satisfied—not satisfied; advanced—in our bodily concept of life, the next question is about spiritual life. So America is in that point, specially. So unless you fulfill their spiritual needs, they will remain in such disturbing condition. So I compared it just like there are many zeros: one zero, two zero, three zero, or hundreds and millions of zero. All these zeros together—the value is zero. But if there is one, then one and zero, it makes 10. The ten times of one value increases. Another zero, it is hundred. Another zero, it is thousand. Similarly, this material advancement of America, if it is added with God consciousness, then the value will increase. Otherwise, it will remain zero.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If a person is not satisfying his senses they think he is crazy.
Prabhupāda: But where is your sense satisfied? You are crazy. You are repeatedly being kicked by nature, that your senses will never be satisfied. Still, you are trying for that. Even the old man of eighty years old, he is going to the nightclub. Where is sense satis... When his senses will be satisfied? (aside) Jaya. Relaxation. If somebody is relaxing, chanting, they will induce, "Oh, you are escaping."
Brahmānanda: "Misery loves company."
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Brahmānanda: That's a saying, that if someone is feeling misery, he wants other people to also enjoy the misery.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: No one wants to suffer alone.
Prabhupāda: Cutting the tail of the jackal. (Bengali) "My tail is cut, so your tail must be cut." This is a fashion. (pause) That is practical. The world is working so hard but where is the peace and happiness?
Brahmānanda: It's coming.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) When it will come? That is unknown.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is authority. You can think like anything, but it will not be done according to your desire. It will be done by the authority's desire. That is authority. You cannot dictate the authority that "You do like this." That is not authority. You think any way; that is your business. But authority will do in their own way.
Harikeśa: Actually, nobody cares about philosophy. Nobody follows philosophy.
Prabhupāda: No. He cares for death. That is the ultimate philosophy, that they have to die. Say, "I don't care for this order. I'll not die." Then your disobedience is all right. But you have to die. You have to become old man. How you can disobey?
Cyavana: So if death is imminent, then I should simply try to enjoy myself as long as I can.
Prabhupāda: Enjoy. What is that enjoyment if you are going to die?
Harikeśa: It's so incredible how crazy everything is.
Brahmānanda: Well, at least before I die, I can get as much pleasure as I can.
Prabhupāda: Nobody can, if he is actually afraid of death. Suppose if you are given a beautiful woman—"Enjoy, and as soon as you come out I will shoot you." (laughter) Will you enjoy?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's a great example. That example would change the world.
Prabhupāda: That is the difference between a man of knowledge and a fool. Man of knowledge, that is that he knows he has to die. "But I don't wish to die. So what is the solution?" That is man of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇa became by caste brāhmaṇa. He will do everything nonsense and still, he remains a brāhmaṇa. But you can introduce the original Vedic culture in this Europe and America. You have understood. You can do it. By this material civilization they will never be happy, and it is risky. That they do not know. They do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. So irresponsibly… Or just like these elderly persons, how they are wasting time.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just sitting on the beach.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only sitting, they have no other engagement. They do not know how human life should be utilized. They do not know. They are simply taking consideration of the body, running or skating or this or that, but they have no other engagement. They do not believe that there is soul and that soul's business is first business. They do not know that, neither they do accept it. They are under nature's law, very simply explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, dehino ’smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. By nature's law you have to change your body. It is evident. Still, they will not believe. We’re changing body every moment, and they will say, big, big professors, that after the body is finished, everything is finished. This is ajñāna. And that is going on as education, whole world. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is in ignorance, so we are giving them wise instruction. They are thinking, "These people are crazy men." That's all.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, do it. And from that egg, you get chicken. Then I shall accept that you are scientist. Otherwise you are rascal, talking all madman's proposal. Do it. Ask them. Write in the paper that "Prabhupāda was speaking like that, a challenge to the scientist: "Is there any scientist who can make an egg which is put in the incubator and gradually it comes to become …""
Harikeśa: They will think we are completely crazy.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Well, then kick on their face, on their nose, rascal. We are crazy or you are crazy?
Harikeśa: But who wants to make eggs?
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, it is an experiment. You say life comes from chemical. So by chemical combination make an egg and do it. Begin from this. Then we shall see others. This is very easy. If you have already analyzed the yellow portion of the egg, the white portion of the egg and that outer plastering can be done. Nowadays there is… What is called?
Harikeśa: Plastic.
Prabhupāda: Plastic. It can be done. Do it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The CIA, they're going to build a television set in his mouth. (laughing)
Harikeśa: They do that with all their men, he said. They put things in the mouth so that they can control the people. And they listen to what they say because they can also hear anything he says. So somebody is listening all the time to all their special agents under the ground. They never come out of the ground. They stay under the ground all the time, and they listen to all the secret agents and all the conversations. And they control them. They speak things to them, tell them what to eat.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Demoniac.
Harikeśa: He says they even control the president that way. They can even make the president go crazy or kill him if he ever becomes a traitor or something like that.
Prabhupāda: Dangerous, huh? That is CIA? The CIA is maintained by government?
Harikeśa: Oh, yes. That's why everybody is very afraid.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they think that the government is maintained by the CIA. (laughing)
Prabhupāda: And everyone is deriding. Even Gandhi is killing Kṛṣṇa. Dr. Radhakrishnan is killing. Their only business is to kill Kṛṣṇa. He is also doing that, our, this Bon Mahārāja. He never speaks of Kṛṣṇa. His rascal, that Institute of Indian Philosophy, nobody goes to urine(?) there. We see practically. And our temple is always filled up, five hundred men. And he is trying for the last forty years. He is simply planning: "This will be playground. This will be this ground. This will be this ground." And it is becoming jungle. Still, he is so envious, black snake. So one circular letter should be issued to all our center, that "Any Bon Mahārāja or anyone, his representative, should not be received." They are envious. Yes. Quoting that. We have got several complaints like that. Satsvarūpa also complained. Sometimes our order was cancelled by Bon Mahārāja's propaganda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mean he has been corresponding with professors in America?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he has got that background.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From catalog, with his literature. There must be some catalog or something that his list of books is in.
Prabhupāda: His books?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Something. Or the Oriental...
Prabhupāda: He has no book.
Harikeśa: Just that one book.
Prabhupāda: That is also.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Also, when I read that book, long time ago, he said in the introduction that once he took a vow for two years not to speak anything. I thought it was very strange for a Vaiṣṇava.
Harikeśa: He lived underneath the ground in one cell. You know that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just make a show.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've said, "Yes, if someone can only speak nonsense, they shouldn't speak. But if they can speak about Kṛṣṇa to glorify Kṛṣṇa-kathayantaś ca māṁ nityam—then always they can talk about Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: He said?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, you say. He said, "I have taken vow not to speak anything." I thought it was crazy.
Prabhupāda: That is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja. You will find in Prahlāda Mahārāja that "This is for professional men to get some prestige." Prahlāda Mahārāja said like that.
Prabhupāda: So people are being educated to work very hard. That is not human life. Therefore those who have got money, they build nice bungalow in a secluded place to live peacefully, to become lazy. Is it not?
Indian man (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Perfection of life means ultimately you become lazy; you haven't got to work. That is perfection, they say. Otherwise why they get a cottage in a secluded place and live? All these Americans, they go weekend. They leave aside all working, they become tired, hard working, and they go. That is the intention, that you should live peaceful life, not working very hard. That is human life. Huh? Otherwise why they go outside the city at the weekend? Why do they go? Hm?
Indian man (1): They want rest, I suppose. They want rest.
Prabhupāda: So that means lazy.
Indian man (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rest means lazy; you don't work.
Indian man (1): If one works five days a week, you rest for two...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. You have to work to become lazy. (laughter) That is another thing. But the goal is to become lazy. You work five days very hard just to become lazy for two days. That's all. So if you have got means to become seven days lazy, you'll prefer it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But I think people would... Most people would go crazy if they didn't have any work.
Prabhupāda: No, that means their life is not properly conducted. And therefore the word laziness has come. Laziness is not actually the word. Laziness means minimizing the bodily labor and engaged in spiritual work. If you ask people, "Please come to our temple," who is coming? Because he says, "I have no time." But we are not working hard.
Harikeśa: Well, why not accept it? It might turn out. It might turn out in the future.
Prabhupāda: So a rascal like you will accept. (laughter) We are not so... (break) ...transaction, even today's date check, they will not accept. Bring cash.
Brahmānanda: 'Cause the cheating tendency is there.
Prabhupāda: That's all. It is cheating. Postdated check means he cheats. What is the guarantee that there will be deposit of money? Will the bank guarantee?
Harikeśa: They've done so many good things in the past, you can understand that...
Prabhupāda: No good things. All bluffs. What good things they have done which has benefited the human society or saved the human society from birth, death, old age and disease? What they have done? Our main problem is this. And when there is no food, what the scientists can do? If there is no rice, no wheat? That will come. The scientists will be taught very nicely. Time is coming when there will be no food. Let them produce. Therefore they are trying chemical food, one, one tablet. This is another cheating. Why tablet? Why not actually produce rice by chemical composition? Why tablet? This is their bluff. The Western people, they take dozen of tablets every day. Still, they are the same condition.
Cyavana: They are becoming more crazy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...ceptive tablet, sleeping tablet, or...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Waking tablets.
Prabhupāda: Waking tablets and so on, so on. Tranquilization tablet.
Prabhupāda: Nature's law you cannot check. It must go on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Bhāgavata says, "Don't try to improve all these things, it is not possible. Improve your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be benefit for your life." (sees another sign) Sangeet (indistinct). Means you can dance. And when our men dance, what do they call? Crazy, crazy. (reads signs) Śrī Rāma. Śrī Rāma for art and culture. So arrange dancing in this Sangeet dance, here. (laughter) They'll not allow? Hm?
Prabhupāda: Vyāsadeva offers his respect to the real truth, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi, where there is no mirage, there is no false world; real world. And Kṛṣṇa gives the same information: yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "That is My real abode, where if you go you don't come back. And so long you are in this material world, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), you accept one body, suffer or enjoy, there is no enjoyment, suffering, and again accept another body; tathā dehāntara praptir." This is going on. Therefore they do not understand when you speak of the other world. But if you speak of this world, that "I'll make you happy in this world," thousands and millions will follow you. And as soon as you say that "I shall make you happy in the next world," "These are all nonsense, crazy fellow!"
Devotee: They think it's too imaginary.
Harikeśa: Post-dated check!
Prabhupāda: And.. Not post-dated! That is real check, but he does not know. He refuses real check. That is not post-dated; it is real check.
Bhavānanda: When I had to go to court to appear for having kidnapped that woman and her son, that I was holding the woman and her son by force—the husband placed charges—so this lawyer said, "That... He was a simple man, a little crazy. He wouldn't have done it or had the money to do it. Someone with some more intelligence, higher intelligence, is behind him, goading him on, telling him what to do." He asked who did I think it was? He mentioned Gauḍīya Maṭha, and he asked for any, did I know any particular personalities. I said, "No." He said, "What about Śrīdhara Swami?" Someone.
Prabhupāda: So if Śrīdhara Swami was behind... Maybe. There is no...
Bhavānanda: The point is that they can make so much trouble like that.
Devotee: Didn't that Dr. Radhakrishnan go crazy at the end of life, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kīrtirāja: I think you have visited him...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kīrtirāja: ...and he was not able to even talk.
Prabhupāda: No.
Kīrtirāja: How can that be God?
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the whole thing is actually nonsense because Marx himself in his old age became senile and died in a crazy condition.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he must be. He was crazy always. Many, many leaders die like that.
Trivikrama: Every leader.
Madhudviṣa: They will point out that our ācāryas also died. You say that Marx died, so they will say, "Your ācāryas also died."
Prabhupāda: Dying, that... There is difference of dying. But nobody, he died... They did not die a crazy. That is the superexcellence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he died gloriously.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only that, that he prepared himself, "Now I am going to die. Now I am sleeping. You just pierce with your arrow." So where is that death? Even that death is perfect.
Abhirāma(?): When Albert Einstein suggested that there must be a supreme universe, then the other scientists began to say that he was crazy. They said, "He has become too old."
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes, yes.
Abhirāma: Actually they did not believe his theory.
Dr. Patel: You are right. I mean, all intelligent men in past used to...
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break)
Prabhupāda: Now, if you say that "My grandmother has become old lady. I'll not become," that is lunacy.
Carol Jarvis: No, no, no. I'm not suggesting that I'm not going to become old. I'm simply saying that I don't know...
Prabhupāda: So therefore, therefore you cannot stop the nature's process. You are dependent. You should first of all understand that you are dependent on nature's process. That is intelligence. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi... (BG 3.27). If you extravagantly say that "I shall stop this nature's process," that is lunacy, craziness. It is not possible. You have to accept that you are under the stringent laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: And you can disvertise(?) it from New Zealand or from Australia. There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man. But this modern civilization, it is insane, crazy civilization. There is a little pleasure in sex life—simply sex life, increase sex life, spoiling everything. That is crazy. Eating-eat anything, any nonsense thing, and become a hog. Sleeping-oḥ, there is no limit, twenty-four hours sleeping if it is possible. Go on, this is going on. Eating, sleeping, mating. And defense—and discover atomic weapon, this weapon, that weapon, and kill innocent persons, unnecessarily, defense. This is going on. But everything can be used properly for peaceful condition, and when you become peaceful, no disturbance, then you can very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and your life becomes successful. This is our program. We don't want to stop anything. How it can be stopped?
Prabhupāda: There is that big dome and.... You have seen Vṛndāvana?
Devotee (2): I have seen it just before it was finished, not since it was completed.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Devotee (2): But I've seen pictures.
Prabhupāda: I think we have got pictures.
Devotee (2): And the place where we're going to put it, you'll be able to see it for miles. It'll be a landmark.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Devotee (2): You can see it for many miles.
Prabhupāda: Not only one, you hundreds of temples construct. Village to village, town to.... At the same time, man. And it will revolutionize the whole rascal situation. At the present moment, it is rascal situation. They're simply satisfied by driving the motor.... putputputputputputputputput! (Prabhupāda makes the sound of a roaring motor). They are thinking, "Oh, how highly I am situated." All crazy. But this has been taught to them that "This is civilization. If you have got a motorcycle and you can come like the wild cat, (all laugh) then you are civilized." They are thinking how great civilized they are; we are thinking how wild cat he is. And what is the difference between wild cat and running dog and this motorcycle? Put-put? What is the difference?
Devotee (2): Nothing.
Prabhupāda: And they're taking it, highly civilized way of life. Where you are going? You cannot go beyond this earth. You attempted so much to go to the moon planet, you failed. And where you can go, put-put-put-put? You'll have to stay here. But that rascal does not understand. He thinks, "I am going very fast." Where you are going? You are destined to stay here. That he does not understand. Not only this put-put motorcycle, the put-put airplane also. They're also trying to go to this planet around, round. That sputnik, first sputnik, eighteen thousand miles, and they simply rounded over the world in one hour and twenty-five minutes. And where did you go?
Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda. Why you are making.... You do not know anything. You cannot solve any problem, major problem, so why you are claiming scientist? Stop this as a gentleman." (break) And there is the soul within the body, and when the soul is gone, transferred to another body, it is dead. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is actually scientist, he is not surprised. He knows the soul has transferred to another body. That's all. That is scientist. (break) ...real scientist, not a rascal like you. We don't give.... (break) You cannot act. We accept Kṛṣṇa as scientist because He explains. You cannot explain. How we can accept you as scientist? You are rascal. Up till now, nobody was able to explain—simply vague. How we can accept these vague explanation as scientist? And daily changing, every year new theories. And I have to accept you scientist? Kṛṣṇa said tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13) five thousand years ago. It was known very well, and it is going on. That is science. You cannot give any solution, you are changing your ideas and theories every year, and we have to accept you as scientist? (break) ...speaking something, and I have to accept him as scientist? Madman, crazy fellow, saying something today, saying something other next day.
Hari-śauri: Like Volte. He was eating his own stool and urine before he died, and he was still insisting there is no God.
Prabhupāda: So these rascals, they'll be taught a lesson at the time of death. God is not dead; you are dead. You simply wait to see how you are dead. We don't want to discuss all this nonsense philosophy, just to warn them that "You don't be misled by this rascalism." That is my point. Then who kills you? Who has killed your father? Just see. Who has killed your father and who will kill you? Just wait a few years more.
Devotee (2): They say this is accident. This is philosophy. This is...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That action was created by God. That accident was created by God.
Hari-śauri: Also, a cartoon somebody put in the paper and it shows...
Prabhupāda: They'll accept accident, but not God. Just see his intelligence. He'll accept accident, but not God.
Devotee (2): Most of the philosophers who have this atheistic philosophy, most of them are trained...
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are suffering. Why don't you see that? Some of them dying by eating their own stool?
Devotee (2): Actually, at the end of his life, he (indistinct) some disease, and he went literally crazy.
Prabhupāda: Disease already there. Old age is already there. That means God is there. They're being punished, but they are so shameless they'll not accept the truth. Same thing. The (indistinct), they're being punished every moment, every step, "No, God is not there." All right. Wait a few years more, God will show either you are dead or He's dead. (laughing)
Devotee: :They say that simply because it's too much beyond their conception...
Prabhupāda: It's a fact. You see the heat and light. It is not the imagination. So who arranged so much heat and light? That is the question. It is not imagination. We have to manufacture a small bolt. It requires a big, big factory's brain. And this has come by chunk? Nonsense. And you have to accept it? These crazy fellows propose and we have to accept.
Prabhupāda: :The thing is, father and mother is always kind. That is natural. Extraordinarily, the mother may kill. That is another thing. Crazy. But if somebody's coming to kill his child, mother gives protection: "First of all kill me." (break) So artistic competition, subject matter was that a child is being killed before the mother, and the artist has to give expression of the face. So different artists gave expression of the face of the mother when the child is being killed before her. So one artist made a picture like this. (holding hands over his eyes) He got the first prize.
Hari-śauri: They simply give their own opinion about something and present that as being fact, and everyone else has their own.
Prabhupāda: I have got my own opinion. Or anyone can have his own opinion. Why your opinion should be accepted? I have got.... (break) ...is that one does not understand that he is imperfect. Or he knows that he is imperfect, still, he wants to push forward his opinion. That is the difficulty. He knows he's imperfect. But he does not think that "I am imperfect. What is the value of my opinion?"
Rāmeśvara: If I have a bigger brain than someone else, and if I give my...
Prabhupāda: Comparatively, you are less crazy. That is another thing.
Hari-śauri: "My idea may not be perfect, but it's better than yours," that's their idea.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is not your secure position. One child is older than the, another child. That does not mean he is a grown-up.
Nalinīkaṇṭha:
"Endeavors merely for sense gratification or material happiness through economic development are not to be performed, for they result only in a loss of time and energy, with no actual profit. If one's endeavors are directed toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can surely attain the spiritual platform of self-realization. There is no such benefit from engaging oneself in economic development."
Prabhupāda: Yes, now just see how people are being misguided. Throughout the whole world, the education is for economic development. And here it is condemned that one should not waste his time for so-called economic development. Now our preaching is here, and who will accept it? They'll call us all crazy fellows. We are thinking they are crazy, they're wasting time for economic development, and they are thinking of us, that "These people are crazy, they are doing nothing, escaping." Escaping, do they not say like that?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is the position. We are following the footprints of Prahlāda Mahārāja. We are following the instruction. There is no need of economic development. Live nature's life. Just like other animals, they have no question of economic development.
Prabhupāda: (break) And if we don't believe that they have gone to moon planet, they will reject us. They will immediately take as "Oh, these people are crazy." Even if you give sufficient reason or argument, they will not take it. That is their obstinacy.
Rāmeśvara: They're convinced by the photographs.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rāmeśvara: They have some photographs of the men in the spacesuits walking around on that other planet.
Kīrtanānanda: But they are convinced because the scientists have told them. They believe the scientists. They have faith, and the scientists can tell them anything, and they'll believe it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is.... That is the disease.
Devotee (2): Prabhupāda? In 3.4 Bhāgavatam Lord Kapiladeva speaks about the feeling of loss, the conditioned soul in the material world when he's identifying with matter.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee (2): Kapiladeva speaks about the feeling of being lost. Is that what the psychologists say is craziness?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Puṣṭa-Kṛṣṇa: The feeling of being lost. Kapiladeva's instructions? He wants to know if the identification with matter is the same thing as craziness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mūḍha. (Sanskrit) What is that verse? Everyone is working under illusion of māyā, until he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So where is the question of accident? You have never experienced such accident. The same plant, the same flower is coming. Where is a proof by accident another flower has come? Where is the proof? So why do they say like that, accident?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Because they don't want to accept God.
Prabhupāda: No, no, accept God or not, where the accident theory comes?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well if they don't give some explanation, then they'll be considered fools.
Prabhupāda: Some explanation, they have to give you something foolish explanation? So foolish man will accept that, not a sane man. If you say "By accident," then I'll say why not accident in the history of the world there is a rose plant some other flower has come out? If man has come from monkey, why not coming now? So they give so may foolish propositions, only fools will accept. Anyone who has a little reasoning power they will not, they'll understand that these are all crazy fellows, talking all nonsense. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. We have got little formula to understand that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no good qualifications. He cannot say anything as a qualified person. That is the test. Mūḍha. Immediately take: a mūḍha. Let the mūḍhas speak all nonsense. Why should we waste our time? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we find somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we take, reject, he's a rascal, that's all. And he is rascal. Not only blindly we are rejecting, but with reason. (end)
Hari-śauri: The whole civilization is complete crazy.
Prabhupāda: Kartikeya told me. After many years he went to see his mother, and mother was going to ball dance. And mother said, "Wait, I am coming back." And he was surprised. He told me. Son has come home after many years, and she could not talk with him. She was going to ball dance.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It actually is that way. It actually goes on that way.
Prabhupāda: This is the mother.
Hari-śauri: Completely callous.
Rūpānuga: Not even mother love anymore.
Prabhupāda: Mother killing. He was about to be killed. He admits. His grandmother advised the mother. Yes. Kṛṣṇa saved him. Because he is devotee, some way or other, he was saved. Your grandmother still living?
Prabhupāda: ...celebration, independence from our point of view?
Hari-śauri: From our point of view, it doesn't have any meaning. For a conditioned soul to think that he's independent...
Prabhupāda: It is foolishness.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think they're free from being controlled by the British, for example. Free from being controlled.
Prabhupāda: There is some meaning. That's all right. But where is your independence? You are fully under the control of the laws of nature. So where is your independence?
Yadubara: There is none.
Prabhupāda: Simply dog dancing is independence?
Vṛṣākapi: Ultimately, they are declaring their independence of God, Kṛṣṇa. They can do as they like.
Prabhupāda: Then where is that independence? You can declare anything. A crazy man can say anything, but where is your independence?
Prabhupāda: This is civilization. Long ago in 1917 perhaps, in our college, we saw one magazine.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: St. Xavier's College?
Prabhupāda: No, Scottish.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Scottish.
Prabhupāda: Scottish Churches College. So one American, Scientific American, we have contribute(?). So there the picture was that one skyscraper building is constructed and so many men are working, carrying the beams and so on. So there was—I remember still—that all, some material construction, so many living entities they are being sacrificed(?). I do not know how the Scientific American gave this picture, I still remember. Actually that is a fact. This human being would have been released from this materialistic way of life, back to home, back to... No, instead of giving them the chance, they are engaged in constructing huge skyscraper building. They're spoiled. So it is little difficult to understand our philosophy. And Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. Tat-prayāso na kartavyaḥ. This kind of activity should stop. It is simply wasting the valuable life. But they do not know how they're wasting. They're in such an ignorance. They are thinking that these people, crazy people, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, are wasting time, they're thinking like that. They do not know what is the value of life.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shall I read on? "The service has become..." What way should we dance, Śrīla Prabhupāda? With our hands outstretched? Sometimes the devotees like to jump around. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: In ecstasy one can do anything, that is another... But artificially to do something is not good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But if one feels like jumping, it is all right?
Prabhupāda: Anything artificial is not required.
Rūpānuga: So running back and forth is not...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that should not be an artificial.
Hari-śauri: We don't dance for show, we dance for the pleasure of the Deities.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're not professional dancers. "The service has become so frenetic that the almost folksy, matter of fact preaching of the Swami makes a stark contrast. 'Some people are against us because they say we teach children to smile. Well isn't that too bad. We make children smile—we are bad. We try to teach them that life should be a joyful thing, we're evil. Well that's too bad, isn't it? ' "
Devotees: Who's that? That's crazy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is theory.(?) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So he has not returned with the key?
Hari-śauri: Who? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Still more?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "After the sermon, more chanting. Now it really becomes frantic, and even compelling. Many curious first-time visitors begin to take up the mahāmantra chant. The hard-core group at the shrine seems to be completely carried away. The terrazo floor literally vibrates. Gradually the crowd begins to thin. Other things are happening in the center. On the third floor there is a traditional Vedic play in costume, acted with enthusiasm." (sound of kīrtana)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, a man sees that his father has died—everyone is dying—why does he believe that he will not die?
Prabhupāda: That is the wonderful thing. Kim āścaryam ataḥ param. Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja said. He was asked, "What is the most wonderful thing in this world?" So he replied, "This is the most wonderful thing, that everyone sees that everyone is dying, he's thinking 'I shall not die.' This is the most wonderful thing."
Bali-mardana: But the hedonists, they say that "Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you will die."
Prabhupāda: No, he knows that he'll die, but still he does not prepare, because he's foolish. Pramattaḥ tasya līlānāṁ paśyann api na paśyati. Pramattaḥ, mad, crazy. He sees that everyone dies, "I am also dying," but he does not know what is after death.
Hari-śauri: I was reading the other day that at one university they started a course where they take the students through a course of death. They study death and then they try to get them to...
Prabhupāda: If it was possible to keep them by medicine, then no rich men would have died. You have got sufficient means to pay for medicine, and he would have kept his relatives, son alive. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja has said. It is not possible.
Rāmeśvara: They are very hopeful that modern medicine can keep them...
Prabhupāda: They are hopeful of everything. That is their foolishness. Hope against hope, that's all. The hope will never be fulfilled, still... Therefore they are called pramatta. Pramatta means mad, crazy. Their hopefulness means that is a proof that crazy, mad.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, is it possible that a living entity, a jīva soul, can have pastimes in relation to God?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: If it's nonsense...
Bali-mardana: He's a crazy boy.
Prabhupāda: (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Brahmā, he has no mother.
Prabhupāda: But he has a father, and the mother is that lotus flower.
Rāmeśvara: Material energy.
Devotees: Oh.
Rādhāvallabha: There's a classification of animals called autotroph(?). An autotroph is...
Prabhupāda: First of all, you study your animal, whether your father and mother is the same. Then go to other animals. First of all your animal, you study first.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They can say though that the material nature is mother and father in this way, that both the mother and father are products of the material energy.
Rāmeśvara: They want this impersonalism. They don't like the philosophy of personalism.
Prabhupāda: Whole thing is personalism. You are talking because you are a person. You are talking all nonsense because you are person. Neither the air is talking, neither sky is talking. Because you are a person you are talking so many nonsense things.
Devotee (1): But then they'll say that after death that person doesn't exist any longer. That personality ceases to...
Prabhupāda: Talk of the present, when you are existing.
Devotee (1): Yes. Their mentality forces them to believe only what they see.
Prabhupāda: You see there is father and mother. Why don't you believe that there must be a father and mother for the whole cosmic? You see everywhere there is father and mother.
Devotee (1): But they don't accept that as God's arrangement.
Prabhupāda: That means a crazy fellow. They manufacture their own idea. There is no reason.
Rāmeśvara: They say within the father and mother is the cosmic energy of life.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we find the father and mother for begetting children. So as there are so many children... And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). They are all children, but their mother is the earth. There must be father.
Rāmeśvara: (break) ...came here, Bhāradvāja and myself went to Salt Lake City to visit the church of the Mormons. The Mormon religion is a branch of Christianity, and they own the whole city of Salt Lake City. It's the capital of Utaḥ, one of the United States states. So they control the whole city, and it is planned with the temple in the center of the city. Like our Māyāpura plan. And all around the streets are named after the temple. It is well planned. And in the temple square they have a visitor center, and it costs hundreds of millions of dollars, with dioramas and movies. They even have a little planetarium. It's all for recruiting people to join their religion. So we went there to study how they did it. Actually, it's all based on a crazy philosophy. They say that after Jesus Christ was crucified in Israel, he rose, and then the next stop he came to America.
Prabhupāda: Next...?
Rāmeśvara: Next he came to America. Because Jesus, they say, is the savior of the whole world, so why just Israel?
Prabhupāda: That boy, I gave him, Haridāsa, who was in San Francisco?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So this Paul Murray... Haridāsa left New York, he went to San Francisco. His name was something else. What is this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a steel factory. This is near the Ratha-yātrā carts.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Steel factory, but very good house?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Paul Murray, he was the boy that went crazy?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he was LSD man.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: LSD man. He tried to attack you.
Prabhupāda: Not attack, but he showed some ferocious mood. I thought...
Devotee (1): Very dangerous.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you thought to leave right away.
Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You took all your things and went away.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I kept with Mukunda.
Hari-śauri: I remember reading in the Kṛṣṇa Book, you mention that to the ordinary man a Vaiṣṇava appears to be crazy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, if they are going to have another interview at one, I think perhaps you can take rest now. (end)
Devotee: That's supposed to be pleasing to the eye, it's supposed to bring pleasant thoughts into the mind. (laughter) It simply makes them crazy.
Rāmeśvara: It's like the "emperor's new clothes." Everyone thinks it is pleasing because the leaders or the artists say it is pleasing. Everyone is being fooled. And if they say it is meaningless then they are called a fool.
Prabhupāda: In Bengali it is called pare mukhe jhalma(?). Somebody says "Oh, it is very hot!" "Oh, it is very hot!" (laughter) He did not taste, but the other man says "Oh, it is very hot!" So he says "Oh, it is very hot!" Pare mukhe jhalma.
Rāmeśvara: Now they have designed these buildings so that many of them have fountains and big courtyards and you can walk from one street to the other by going through the center of the building.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā.
Rāmeśvara: And in the middle of the courtyard they have this crazy sculpture. All over the city. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...some of our artists make big sculpture out of metal?
Prabhupāda: Hm? No. That's not possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Philosophically not possible?
Prabhupāda: No, practically.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because some of our men here who have helped to make this wall, the front wall of the temple that we're making in front of the Deities, they are artists and they have the ability to cast large, they've done this previously,
Prabhupāda: Let them do some small first of all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And show you.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: Because I don't find any more pleasures, you know, in anything. As I go on chanting and chanting and chanting, sometime, Prabhupāda... Oh, my first dream that came when I joined your movement... First dream that I came... And I told my wife about it in the morning. I said, first I saw a moon, and then I saw another large planet coming up, and then on the top of it I saw the lotus feet of the Lord. And when I saw the lotus feet of the Lord, I saw you coming on a swan and doing His pūjā. And I kept on shouting to my wife that "Please see Prabhupāda is here. Please see. He is doing pūjā of lotus feet of the Lord." And that was my first dream that came. Sometimes after chanting all the time I feel as if He is walking next to me. I can feel as if His bluish body is right next to me, and all the time I have a feeling that somebody is next to me, you know. I don't know whether I'm going crazy or I'm...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is already there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were selling prasādam. I think we must have made somewhere between five and ten thousand dollars so far from prasādam sales. That's in addition to the free feast. We served a free feast to five thousand people when I left.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you did not stay there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, still, it's so big. I estimated that through three to four hours there were thirty to forty thousand people that went in and out of that park.
Prabhupāda: Still they are eating?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're still eating. Every piece of burfi we sold cost one dollar.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just a piece of burfi...
Prabhupāda: Burfi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they were charging one dollar for one square.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they were paying. Watermelon, for one slice, half a dollar.
Prabhupāda: Fifty cents. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty cents. The whole watermelon only cost one dollar. We got about thirty slices out of it. And books...
Prabhupāda: People, they are simple here. They are not, about money matters, so much attracted. They have got enough money. They don't care. They want it is good taste, that's all. And why they did not give prasādam to that boy who was crazy?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He got. I'm sure he must have gotten. Everybody was given free feast. Feast was very good. I tasted it, nicely prepared.
Prabhupāda: How many preparations were there?
Bali-mardana: Very hard to estimate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many preparations in the feast? There was halavā, sabji, very good sabji by Ṛṣi Kumāra, rice, sweet, lemonade, popper-six preps. And puri, seven preps.
Prabhupāda: Very nice. Very good preps, sumptuous.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All of the GBC men said it was the biggest single festival ever held in ISKCON's history. They all admitted that there was no festival ever held anywhere, even in India, no single festival in India. There was not any one day at any pandal where there was that many people who took prasādam and who attended such a long procession for two hours.
Prabhupāda: I think in the beginning... (microphone rattling) You were there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was there. Yeah, that was pretty big. In 1969, that was gigantic.
Prabhupāda: That was also very big. And there was also a crazy man.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's right. We didn't give any invitation cards to our temple here, but we were making announcements. But I think people will come, anyway. They'll find out where our Hare Kṛṣṇa center is.
Bali-mardana: They were distributing books, magazines.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Books and magazines were given, but we didn't give any free cards. Usually we give free cards, but there was so much...
Prabhupāda: What is that? They'll come and take. That's all.
Tripurāri: Seventy-second and Amsterdam. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...station like this.
Passerby: Bless your heart.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow, he said, "Bless your heart."
Passerby: What's the scoop?
Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa? How about Christ Jesus?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How about Hare Kṛṣṇa as father?
Passerby: Father? His father? 'Fraid not, fella. You'll meet your father.
Prabhupāda: Drunkard? No.
Hṛdayānanda: Crazy.
Prabhupāda: This is Amsterdam? Cross street? No.
Devotee: Seventy-fifth Street.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, this is Amsterdam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) We have got a very nice house in Detroit. If you sometimes go there...
George Harrison: Whereabouts?
Prabhupāda: Detroit.
George Harrison: Ah, Detroit. They need one there. Crazy place.
Jayatīrtha: Heavy place.
Prabhupāda: That house was constructed fifty years ago at the cost of six million dollars, and we have got it very cheap. Three hundred thousand dollars.
George Harrison: Was it a big house?
Hari-śauri: A very big mansion on the riverside.
George Harrison: Colonial house?
Prabhupāda: Not as big-four acres of land—but the building is very costly. One room will cost now three hundred thousand dollars. So nicely made.
Prabhupāda: If they understand any book, Īśopaniṣad, if they understand, they will get improvement.
Nandarāṇī: Any book. Some Bhagavad-gītās I do, but it's an exceptional Iranian who can even read the book, what to speak of understand the concepts. Īśopaniṣad is easier for them. We are very eager to translate into Persian.
Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.
Nandarāṇī: Īśopaniṣad, yes. I think that will be our first big attempt. Some essays we will try to do. "Who is Crazy?" is very good for them, they appreciate that article, and...
Prabhupāda: They appreciate?
Nandarāṇī: Yes, we have explained to some of them the concepts in "Who is Crazy?" and Īśopaniṣad is a good book for them.
Prabhupāda: So your daughter is good assistant in the matter of cooking?
Nandarāṇī: Yes, they are both very good in cooking. And they clean the altar and they do some maintenance of the altar and the temple room, and they cook and sew, and I give them class in the morning, Bhagavad-gītā in English.
Prabhupāda: Yes, teach them personally. That Aniruddha is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: I think the degeneration of this country are from the foreign people, foreign domination.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, it was their propaganda, Macauley's, that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them." So British policy was to make propaganda so that "everything Indian is bad."
Dr. Patel: I think Max Mueller (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: No, it was necessary for them to Anglicize the Indians to rule over them.
Dr. Patel: Our differential, or (Hindi) has created all this rot.
Prabhupāda: It is not our, it is human society's.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) We allowed everyone to be here unawares. If public corporation, trading company, becomes the ruler of this country, I don't understand how it could be.
Prabhupāda: Because we have no, that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.
Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system (much airplane noise-indistinct) this open Democracy is not a (indistinct) by consensus...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is śūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "crazy," śūdra will be on the power. So they can...
Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...
Prabhupāda: Everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brāhmaṇa? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brāhmaṇa." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brāhmaṇa he'll be hammerman. In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.
Gargamuni: That's a fact that in those old houses, the Marwaris they have inherited of all these pieces. Now they have it all. In the old British houses many Marwaris have taken over, and they have inherited all of the treasures of the British.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Gargamuni: Many antiques.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, if I take away something from you in this room and I keep it somewhere in this room, then where is the difference either with you or with me? That was going on during Mohammedans' ruling. But these people, they took away from the room. So India became poverty-stricken.
Jayapatākā: One more thing. Locally that bank that opened there...
Prabhupāda: They are... They are crazy fellows.
Gargamuni: That bank is worthless. They don't know anything about banking. They are farmers.
Prabhupāda: Forget it. If bank like Central bank or United, that bank... They are useless, and they are asking ten lakhs of rupees deposit.
Jayapatākā: Five lakhs. They will give interest. They'd like a fixed amount...
Prabhupāda: So who believes them?
Gargamuni: No, but I don't trust that bank because they already tried... They kept fifty thousand rupees. It took us two weeks to get that.
Jayapatākā: They didn't have any signature.
Gargamuni: It doesn't matter, though. It's still...
Prabhupāda: They are not... It is a small cultivator's cooperative.
Prabhupāda: So since I went there he did not go to work. Otherwise, he was working and getting daily twenty-five dollars, in some dock he was working. Since I went, he stopped working, and I had to pay 125 dollars for the loft. One lady was the landlord. So I was going on. Some people were coming. That Mukunda began to come, his wife, and another black boy, half-black. Yeargen, Karlapati. I gave him name, Karlapati. He was coming. Then one day that boy Murray, he showed some crazy features. So I thought it is dangerous to live with him.
Devotee: Yogānanda asked how many pages, when he heard about the newsletter. He thought that you spoke so long about that. And I just said, "Just two lines." But they never asked me what the letter said.
Prabhupāda: Yes, two lines is sufficient.
Dhanañjaya: Punar muṣaka bhava. Punar muṣaka bhava.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is exactly the same case. Punar muṣaka bhava, you know the whole story? A muṣaka, a mouse, was made a tiger, and the tiger wanted to eat the saintly person who made him. First of all he was mouse. So he came to the saintly person. "Sir, I am troubled. Give me some benediction." "What do you want?" "Now, the cat always chases." "All right, you become cat so that you'll not be attacked." Then after some time he came. "I am being chased by the dog." "All right, you become a dog." From cat to dog, from mouse to... Then again he came. "Still, they are chasing me. Fox." And then in this way, and ultimately he made a tiger. And after becoming a tiger, he began to look, staring on the... "What do you mean by this?" "I shall eat you." "Oh? You become again a mouse." (laughter) Again he became mouse. That's all.
Hari-śauri: The perfect example.
Devotee: Now he looks like dirty. You know, like brown. The dhotī's not white. It's like brownish.
Prabhupāda: He harassed. "He has not increased my..." Hearing and hearing, he wants to go. So why not, if he found some real disciplic succession, some bābājī, why he did not remain there? He is criticizing that our is not in the proper succession. So why he did not remain where he found the proper succession? Why he's sometimes in Vṛndāvana, sometimes Delhi, sometimes here. Why he is loitering? Crazy. Unfortunate. Unnecessarily picking out some trouble.
Hari-śauri: Faultfinding.
Prabhupāda: The bābājīs, they are against anything preaching. They are very, very much against preaching. So I am preaching. Bābājīs, the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, and all of them, their idea is that I am ruining this bhajana and Hindu dharma. This is the propaganda. What I am writing, they are all wrong. And they are making... And they try to poison my disciples as far as possible so that the whole institution may be poisoned and break. This is their propaganda.
Haṁsadūta: That pressure is being felt.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Otherwise who cares for whom? There are so many things. Here also, they are feeling the pressure, the so-called swamis, yogis, Gosvāmīs, religious groups, Māyāvādīs...
Hari-śauri: Communists.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hari-śauri: Communists, too.
Prabhupāda: Communists. That is our success. Everyone is now feeling the pressure. (Bengali) and they are talking (Bengali). In such a short time, so much money, so much expansion, so many devotees, what is this? That is Kṛṣṇa.
Haṁsadūta: Like Vāmanadeva expanded His foot and He covered the...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
Haṁsadūta: First people thought, "Oh these are crazy fellows," and now suddenly they are everywhere.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Almost all of them, doctor, who have spoken. You have read that?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, I have read. All respectable.
Prabhupāda: Indian and American, all learned scholars, they have spoken. Where is that statement? And Doctor Saligram, he has spoken very nice. Where is that? Doctor Saligram, Indian Professor, anthropology or something like that. So now better to see the movement from behind, who is that man behind it? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: There may be very few, one or two. That is insignificant. One million, two person, he is. At least especially in your country.
Hari-śauri: The thing is that they don't claim that they are brainwashed. So we're a society where we're doing all these things, combinedly.
Prabhupāda: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If the majority are fools and rascal, if you say something sane, then they'll ask... The man, the sane man, he is insane. He's crazy.
Hari-śauri: Then how to fight them?
Prabhupāda: That is the position. The only means is that in spite of all opposition we have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will cleanse.
Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from Bhagavad-gītā, I am talking of Christianity. How you can disobey the orders of Christ and you become Christian at the same time?
Dr. Kneupper: There's always people falling short of what their...
Prabhupāda: That's it. That means they are all useless. If you are Christian, how you can defy the order of Christ? You will disobey the orders of Christ; still you are Christian? Just like in India they are all denying the Vedic culture, and still they are Hindu? All these rascals. So therefore, I say, the whole world is full of rascals. If the Christians accept this word, that Lord says, "Thou shall not kill." Why shall we kill? Welcome. Never mind whether Christian or Hindu. Welcome. Similarly, in India, if they accept Bhagavad-gītā, welcome. But everyone is rascal, mūḍha. Nobody cares for God, nobody cares for God's messenger. All rascals. This is the position. They are creating God. They are creating religion. They are creating sect. This is going on.
Dr. Kneupper: Even though they are sincere...
Prabhupāda: That should be educated from the very beginning. Therefore we are opening gurukula, sane brain. Otherwise their brain is spoiled by so-called bad education. I inquired from your state secretary that "You write on the bills, 'In God We Trust,' so why not spread this God consciousness—what is God? You blindly say, 'God in Trust,' but what is God? Do you know? So why not spread this science?" I received no reply up to date. They might have said, "Here is a crazy fellow. Nobody has inquired like this." That's all. They do not like to enter into the controversy. Actually they do not believe in God, but they write, "In God We Trust," is it not?
Dr. Kneupper: That's what they write.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but they don't believe in God. Hypocrisy. Because if they trust in God, then they could not cheat that "I am paying you one thousand dollars by some papers." This is cheating.
Hari-śauri: One of my parent's friends, she hadn't been to sleep for 7 months because of a nervous condition when she was going crazy. I saw that.
Mr. Malhotra: There must be sleeping pills.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in western countries, tranquilizer.
Rāmeśvara: One girl. And they're vicious, very hateful. Because they are constantly being told that we are evil.
Prabhupāda: Nitāi has gone there to do it? (chuckles) No.
Rāmeśvara: No. I think... Last I heard he was still in Vṛndāvana area.
Prabhupāda: If he is in Vṛndāvana, that is good for him.
Rāmeśvara: He is crazy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So even in your own country, the priest talks crazily. We should reply that. Why do you go to India? In your country, your countrymen take it.
Rāmeśvara: Jesus was crucified in his own country.
Dr. Patel: By his own men.
Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali proverb (Bengali). In a village, if a saintly person comes from outside, he is invited. And if a saintly person there is in the village, nobody cares for him.
Prabhupāda: You first of all said that we are depriving with food. Where is this?
Rāmeśvara: This is their argument...
Prabhupāda: This is their argument...
Rāmeśvara: ...that we only let them eat twice a day, and even then, not only is there no meat, but there is very little protein.
Prabhupāda: That depends on him. If he likes to eat that kind of food, you have no right to enforce upon him. Then you are going to enforce upon him. There are different persons; they like different types of food. And food must be according to his own taste. Aguru ohikhanna.(?)
Rāmeśvara: Only twice a day.
Prabhupāda: But if he likes twice a day, why you give thrice? That is his choice.
Rāmeśvara: And sleeping only four, five hours.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Very little.
Prabhupāda: Because it is waste of time.
Rāmeśvara: This makes his mind very weak.
Prabhupāda: You rascal, you have nothing to do. You sleep. Napoleon used to sleep for one hour, two hour. He was such a busy man. So they are so busy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have no time to sleep. Every great man does not sleep very much. The lazy men... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) Acchā. Sleeping is simply waste of time. So this is... If he does not sleep more, it is a sign of greatness.
Rāmeśvara: But they have got these crazy fools in the name of psychologists. And these psychologists...
Prabhupāda: We have got our psychologists.
Rāmeśvara: And also Dr. Harvey Cox of Harvard, he quoted one section of the Bible where Jesus was preaching and his mother did not like it, and his father, and they came to get him away. They thought he was gone crazy, that he was preaching so much about God. So they came to his place where he had gathered many people. They wanted to deprogram him. And Jesus said, "You're not my mother. You're not my father. My real father is in heaven, and my real relatives are those who believe in God."
Prabhupāda: Where is that?
Rāmeśvara: That's right in the Bible.
Prabhupāda: (break) Because there are many fanatics. Hm?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Sītā was put into the fire and she came out unburned. Sītā was blasphemed, that "This woman was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, and Rāmacandra is so henpecked that He has again picked up her and living with her." So Rāmacandra put him (her) in the fire and she came unharmed.
Rāmeśvara: You were asking me what is the use of, say, if you came to America, if you were on television. But actually people are very interested in this issue, so they will listen. They are listening to see us, hoping that we will be exposed.
Prabhupāda: Now, Hari-śauri was (saying) that there are many fanatics. They may attack me: "He's the man who has started this movement."
Gargamuni: Yes.
Hari-śauri: These deprogrammers will go to any length.
Gargamuni: They'll do anything to stop it. You'd have to have professional bodyguards.
Rāmeśvara: This Reverend Moon, he is not being attacked. The other leaders aren't.
Gargamuni: I think you should carry on your fighting from India through your other men.
Rāmeśvara: Or at least a place like Hawaii.
Gargamuni: I feel if you went to America during this fight it may be very dangerous also.
Rāmeśvara: It's possible.
Gargamuni: Because there's a lot of crazy... These people are crazy. But you could give your orders from India, and this way the fight can go on.
Gargamuni: But they, I think annihilated all of the... Anyone who had any education... Just like that boy. He was translating your books? They shot him in front of firing squad. One boy. I printed one book there in Bengali, I think, three thousand copies: The Peace Formula and Who is Crazy, I think. It was about fifteen pages. They gave me some donation. Even the Gopāla... His name was Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Brahmacārī. He also gave me from his pocket. And I printed... We had it translated in Bengali, but then...
Prabhupāda: He was killed?
Gargamuni: Yes, for translating. He was shot in... Not him but this other brahmacārī, young boy, very nice boy. His name was Karuṇāmayī.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. They had to do that because their economy was ruined. He had taken away... This man was crazy. He had taken away all the tariffs, so that foreign countries were supplying their products in Australia, and the local businessmen..., local manufacturers were going out of business. So many problems. And they're so proud of their modern culture, modern education and advancement, but they're being blackmailed by the Arabs. The Arab countries are considered very undeveloped, and the Western world is so proud how advanced they are, yet they are now being blackmailed by the Arabs for oil. So what is the use of their advancement? And now whatever the Arabs want, they have to do.
Prabhupāda: I think he is not returning. He's gone forever. Gargamuni: Who?
Hari-śauri: Devi-dhāma. Oh, no. He's back. He's back.
Gargamuni: Just now.
Prabhupāda: So what did he bring?
Rāmeśvara: So they have become completely dependent on oil.
Prabhupāda: Anything artificial, it will break. You cannot make a scheme of mental concoction. That will not endure. You take standard it will be beneficial. The whole world is in chaotic condition because they have so many artificial way of living.
Gargamuni: ...talking about in Purī, that there's a class of men who are preaching that because of Caitanya's movement, Islam was spreading, because the king became somewhat weakened, they have said. So I met one such man there also at the Purī Hotel. He said, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? By this Caitanya cult the Islam has spread." He was saying. So I told him, "You said that. We don't get any information historically. In fact it was the reverse, that this Hussain, the Nawab Hussain Shah, he became a great follower." He said, "No, that is not written anywhere." I said, "No, it is in Caitanya-caritāmṛta." He did not accept Caitanya-caritāmṛta as historic fact. He was a crazy man.
Prabhupāda: Demon.
Gargamuni: He was crazy also.
Rāmeśvara: You also blasted him. What did you say?
Hari-śauri: Tell him about those man who came to support you.
Gargamuni: Oh, yes. Then he was saying, "Our Vivekananda, he never did this Hare Kṛṣṇa. He's never done this." I said, "Well, actually..."
Prabhupāda: "What benefit you have got from Vivekananda?" You did not ask? What bene...?
Satsvarūpa: By then they think they will be doing this, creating life.
Prabhupāda: That any insane man can say. Any crazy man can say. "Trust no future, however pleasant." "You are rascal. You are believing in the future. You have not show us, because in the past you could not do. There is no history. In the present you cannot do. So how shall I believe that in future you'll do?" So any rascal promises like that, so we take him as a rascal. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Tortoise and?
Satsvarūpa: Rabbit.
Prabhupāda: Rabbit. Yes.
Gurukṛpā: You know the story?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your scientific knowledge, your car, means you are more dependent. Now, suppose you have to stay here. You had to, some very important business. Now whole thing is finished. But if you have calculated without having this car, then you would have done your duty. So the more material advancement means more you become dependent, more you become rascal. That is calculation by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava, jīvake karaye gādhā, tomāra bhajane bādhā. Anitya saṁsāre, moha janamiyā, jīvake karaye gādhā. My business is that how to leave this material conditional life and become free. Now, with this so-called advancement of science I am becoming more and more attached. So I'll never get freedom. This is the result. Because I am trying in different way how to get, freedom. "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it. We shall do this." Gādhā, ass. You'll die trillions of times within millions of years, and he is expecting good result of his scientific... By the time, he'll become a banyan tree and stand there by nature's law, and he's expecting good result after millions of years. So gādhā, ass. Durāśaya. This has been described as durāśaya. He's expecting something, hoping something, will never be fulfilled. They calculate. "Millions of years we shall get how to make life." And the, an ordinary chicken, he is doing this within seven days. And these rascals will have to wait for millions of years and wait that a life is coming from the egg, and other rascals, set of rascals, they are accepting. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha. Which he will never be able to do, he is expecting... "We shall do it." This is also called another logic, nyāya, bakāṇḍa-nyāya. You have seen bakāṇḍa-nyāya? Baka and aṇḍa. One bull is going and his testicle hanging, and another duck, he is thinking, "It is a fish. It will drop, and I shall take it." This is practical. This is psych... You'll see a bull is going on and testicle hanging, and another duck is going after him. From this baka the word baka has come. Sometimes we say baka. This bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Gurukṛpā: Baka, crazy.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Crazy, yes. He does not know that it is his testicle. It will never drop, but he is thinking, "As soon as it... This is a fish. It will drop and big fish. (laughing) I shall eat it." Another nyāya is ajā-gala-stana. Those who have studied nyāya-śāstra... There are many such examples. Ajā-gala-stana. Sometimes a goat, they have got nipples.
Pṛthu-putra: They don't go away from Śrīla Prabhupāda's teaching. On the opposite, we try to learn more and to be more qualified in order to teach spiritually on the case...
Prabhupāda: But no, no..., that, that... They're overintelligent. Just like Nitāi has become overintelligent. "Please bless me I may find out a bona fide guru." He has written me.
Pṛthu-putra: (laughs) That's craziness.
Prabhupāda: He has written me that. He is asking my blessing to find out another bona fide guru. Such a rascal he is. If his present guru is not bona fide, why he's asking blessing from him? Such a rascal. He has written me.
Pṛthu-putra: This is nonsense proposition.
Prabhupāda: No, you say, but he is such a learned, overlearned, he's asking somebody blessing who is not bona fide to find out bona fide. Just see his position. If you are seeking a bona fide spiritual master, why you asking the blessing of non-bona fide? (laughs) I could simply laugh, that's all, that such a rascal... He was doing some tangible service, editing work. He left everything.
Prabhupāda: I think, perhaps, we have detected first that these are rascals.
Gurukṛpā: You have detected.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Gurukṛpā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Nobody before tried to... (chuckling) So...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nobody's saying as boldly as Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So if I would not have students like you, they would have taken me as crazy man. But now I have engaged you to prove them rascals. That is my ambition. (break) ...life from matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to give them protection. So when we avoid envious persons, that is the injunction of the śāstras. This man wrote to the chief minister or prime minister complaining about them?
Jayapatākā: About his electric connection.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Jayapatākā: That Mahesh Pandit. You're talking about the man of Mahesh Pandit?
Prabhupāda: No, no. This Dāmodara Mahārāja.
Jayapatākā: The chief minister.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Yes? He gave false name; he signed it false. He said that we're coming with banduka and chasing the sādhus and that we're harassing people, beating them. So many things he wrote, false. He said, "Most envious is Bhavānanda and just like him is Jayapatākā." Then he said that "Tapomaya, he is simply their lackey. He goes and harasses people," this and that. Then the police came, and they showed us the letter, and we both looked at each other and said, "This looks like something that Dāmodara Mahārāja would do." So we advised the police, "We think that he did it." So the police went over there and they said as soon as they had the letter he started shaking. They said, "Is this your letter?" He said, "No." He says, "You wrote this letter." Because they could see he was nervous. They are experienced. They said, "All right, you give your signature." And then he signed, and although he tried to change it, they said, "No. This is the same signature. Now we're going to take you to the thānā." (police station) "No, no. I am sometimes a little crazy." Āmi ekṭu pāgala. "I didn't mean this..." Then he admitted. But he sent that to the chief minister.
Prabhupāda: Just see. How envious.
Jayapatākā: Naturally, any letter to the chief minister, they...
Prabhupāda: Take action.
Jayapatākā: ...take action.
Prabhupāda: He is dangerous. He has proved dangerous in so many ways. (end)
Ādi-keśava: And then, if the person strikes out at the parent, they say, "Just see how crazy he's become!" Just like with Vasu-gopāla, he took a stick and hit his mother across the head and ran out shouting the name of Nṛsiṁhadeva as they were holding him captive, so he could run away. And so they said, "Just see how crazy he's become that he hit his own mother." Of course, the fact is they didn't mention they locked him in the bathroom for thirty hours just before. They kept him in a little bathroom. They locked the door, put him in there for thirty hours. All they mentioned is that he come out and hit her on the head with some stick. So then they say, "Just see! He's acting against his parents." So then the judge says, "Oh, what can I do? Naturally the father loves the son."
Prabhupāda: So why don't you quote from our śāstra that "He is not father." Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt. Find out this verse.
Pradyumna:
"One who cannot deliver his dependents from the path of repeated birth and death should never become a spiritual master, a father, a husband, a mother or a worshipable demigod."
Prabhupāda: So how he's father? What is the purport?
Hari-śauri: Rāmeśvara is supposed to be making all the arrangements.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Bharadvāja is preparing everything. He seems to be a good man.
Prabhupāda: Very good man.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His wife also.
Prabhupāda: He was misunderstood by Upendra before. He's a good man.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very good. He was not properly dealt with, that's all.
Prabhupāda: This boy is crazy, Upendra. He was having turban like Bhajan, that Sikh man.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yogi Bhajan.
Prabhupāda: He becomes influenced by others very easily. Does not stick. Now there is no information of the wife and children.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't seem like your sons are very..., except for Vṛndāvana. None of the others come.
Prabhupāda: They are like mother.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I met that Madan-Mohan.
Prabhupāda: Mathurā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mathurā-Mohan. Whew! Smoking.
Prabhupāda: All spoiled. Mother has spoiled. Everyone.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this Vṛndāvana? He's...
Prabhupāda: He's half-spoiled.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is he the oldest son?
Prabhupāda: He was little crazy. Might have gone away from home. Very intelligent boy he was. His mother made him crazy. Very... He was standing first in school. Very intelligent. She spoiled the whole family life. It was good for... For my youngest daughter I selected one very nice boy, rich man. She did not give. She wanted to keep her as her assistant, and she's not married.
Prabhupāda: If you can introduce this system, varṇāśrama, then it will establish. No more change. This is a rascal's government, this democracy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Demoncracy."
Prabhupāda: "Demoncracy."
Hari-śauri: "Demon-crazy."
Prabhupāda: "Demon-crazy." (laughter) Demon and crazy. Not only demon... There are demons whose brain is all right, but they are crazy also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughing) Demon-crazy.
Prabhupāda: And introduce books in the school, colleges, libraries, so nice books. There is no doubt about it. There is no such literature throughout the world.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gradually some of the people are beginning to understand what you're up to, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Some of these big demons in America especially, they are beginning to understand that you are the most dangerous personality in the world to them.
Prabhupāda: To kill "demon-crazy," LSD. (laughs) Yes, that is my mission. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8), to kill all these demons, crazy demons. I have no such power; otherwise I would have killed them. Either establish Kṛṣṇa conscious government or kill them-bas, finish. I would have done that, violence.
Prabhupāda: Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Similar surrender to guru. Yathā deve, as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa—similar to guru—then your life is perfect. Yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante. Then this meaning of the scripture will be revealed automatically. And you are singing daily, guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra nā kariha mane āśā **. Nothing more. Then your life is perfect. This is secret. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, āra nā kariha mane āśā **. Don't manufacture ideas, rascal. Then it is finished. In material world everyone is a demon-crazy. Everyone is manufacturing ideas. And they are suffering. All rascals, are manufacturing ideas. Kartāham iti manyate. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He's fully under control of the laws of nature and he's thinking, "I am independent. I can manufacture ideas." Āḍhyo 'bhijanavān... That is... Find out this. Āḍhyo 'bhijanavān asmi ko 'nyo 'sti, some like that, in the Sixteenth Chapter. "Demon-crazy." Crazy demons are thinking like that. (chuckles) "I can manufacture something. I am very intelligent. We..."
Hari-śauri: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: The three verses together?
Prabhupāda: No, you find out. There's so many. The mentality of the demon-crazy...
Harikeśa: And the Polish book, we were working like crazy but couldn't finish it in time.
Prabhupāda: No, should not be done... Slow...
Harikeśa: It will be ready in one week. That one is Easy Journey.
Prabhupāda: Slowly but surely. And the small book, first of all print.
Harikeśa: And Yugoslavian Īśopaniṣad, that will be ready within, I think, one month, one and a half months.
Prabhupāda: If there is scarcity of money, you ask me. I shall pay you. You can pay me later.
Harikeśa: Actually there's no scarcity.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Hṛdayānanda:
Prabhupāda: Asad-grāhān: "There is no God. By science we shall do everything. We shall..." What is this? A mad crazy fellow. And this is going on all over. "Test tube... We shall... Test tube..." Simply set of madmen. And influencing innocent. The rascal, whole civilization, they are. It is a horrible condition. All rascals. And the big rascals, they are enjoying. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Just like a big rascal, a lion is very big, important thing in the forest. What is this? He's animal. So they create importance of this animal. One big animal is being praised by a small animal. That's all. But the whole civilization is animal. And because the small animals are praising the big animals, does it mean it is human society? That is going on. The Mr. Nixon, (laughs) he's an animal, and Mr. John is praising him. That's all. Both of them are animals. Mūḍha. Big animals and small animals. That's all. So we have to stop this. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So am I right when I speak, say like that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: You are all intelligent.
Prabhupāda: Now the haircutting, that lakhs of rupees are sold to foreign countries is hair. Heaps. These managers, they are selling the hairs. Very big business. The foreign countries, the black hair, they purchase it at good price for making wig. (pause) So that is written nice. He wanted to criticize me, but he could not do it very strongly. He did not like the idea that I am sticking to Bhagavad-gītā. That was his... But it has been shown that our sticking to Bhagavad-gītā, that is our mission. And it is a science. Why he called sectarian? When Kṛṣṇa says anything, that is science. "Two plus two equal to four" is acceptable by everyone. Why it is sect...? Actually all religion is going on under the plea, "We believe." What is this nonsense, "We believe"? If you believe "Two plus two equal to five," will it be correct? Their religion is "We believe." So our Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is fact. That is the difference. (break) ...of him. I was staying there in one big room. Crazy. Alone I am.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had tried to attack you?
Prabhupāda: No, he couldn't act. Gone crazy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Taking LSD.
Prabhupāda: So immediately I transferred myself to Jergens, keeping my goods at Mukunda's place, Michael. Then I searched out that 26 Second Avenue. From going to 26 Second Avenue taking this risk of two hundred dollars, then I became little relieved. Before that, I was simply vagabond. That was the first shelter. Then this Kīrtanānanda, Hayagrīva, Satsvarūpa, Umāpati, they guided. Brahmānanda. Some other boys also came, and they left.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The all governmental power was in the hand of Indians. Only the Muslims were there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they did what the Curzons suggested.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they know. And besides that, they did not exploit. Whatever enjoyment they did—within India, not that taking away the money outside India. Therefore it was very good relationship. And Indian people, they do not mind who is king. "We pay our tax. That's all." That is the attitude from the very beginning. The general people, they did not mind whether Kurus or war(?) will reign over or the Pāṇḍavas. "We don't mind. You become fight. You become king. We give our tax. That's all." So there was no fight with the subject between king and citizens. This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy. I do not know who introduced this. In India still there is no demon-crazy. Indian king always. Everyone is taking part in politics. What is this nonsense? It is meant for the kṣatriyas. They can fight and defend. The rascals, bhangis, chamars, and they are also in politics. Harijanas... Every one of them vote, and everyone has got the right to become king, minister. Not this. The real thing they are missing, the mode of life, the aim of life. (break)...care. Everyone is theorizing, everyone is educated, and everyone is, they're hippie. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you ever go to the Bronx?
Prabhupāda: Hm. I was sitting alone on the New York house.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Park.
Prabhupāda: Then I heard that one crazy man was killed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then you stopped going. Oh, those parks are dangerous. In New York you can't go alone.
Prabhupāda: That was my morning walk. (laughs) I did not know what is morning walk.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you ever go to the zoo in Central Park? Central Park you would go to also?
Prabhupāda: Alone.
Prabhupāda: They were happily living by covering their one cloth. Still, they were living peacefully. They were so poverty-stricken. Rāja Hariścandra lost everything, but because there was peace between husband and..., they were living. Viśvāmitra saw separately. There are so many instances. That is lost now, to live peacefully, husband and wife. Throughout the whole world became sour. And still in India, "Eh, I have no other..." There is stock of grain. So how many people have got stock of grain nowadays? Dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam. (laughs) Nobody.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the government does not have a stock of grain.
Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense government? A combination of rascals and fools, that's all. Demon-cracy. Not democracy but demon-cracy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Demon-crazy.
Prabhupāda: Demon-crazy, yes. Crazy and demons. (Bengali) You should care. There will be no scarcity of food. There will be no scarcity of place. Now we have to organize. (Bengali)
Indian man (1): (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: Just bring the work and see how to do it. Viśvambhara is not here?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With the help of this planetarium, people will actually be able to go to the moon for the first time, at least by their minds. There was such a hoax that I heard they were even selling tickets to go to the moon.
Prabhupāda: Hm. (pause)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you're feeling tired, maybe you'd like to take a little rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's still early now.
Prabhupāda: Hm. I have been taking rest in... (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are all rascals and they're all crazy.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The karmīs. They don't know what is what. They don't know what is good for them. If they have their choice, they won't immediately talk with a devotee. But we are like the doctors. We don't consider what the patient says. Somehow we have to administer the medicine because we know it will be good for them. There's a letter that just came from Satsvarūpa.
Prabhupāda: Have my keys...
Prabhupāda: The hippies are nothing but a group of madmen, that's all. A madman, they..., means publicly sex, that's all. This Allen Ginsberg's movement is that, homosex, public sex. Ginsberg was very proud that he had introduced homosex. He was telling me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was telling you?
Prabhupāda: When he first came to me he was very proud: "I have introduced homosex." He thought very brilliant work it was. And another man, what is that? He's put into jail.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Timothy Leary.
Prabhupāda: Ha, ha. What is his position now?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I haven't heard about him in the last few years. He's in and out of jail, I think. I saw one time he was just getting out of jail. It just shows... I think he was a big professor at Harvard. So the idle mind, devil's workshop. So he used his big brain for making this LSD. That's the value of this Ph.D. degree.
Prabhupāda: He was Ph.D.?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. Big personality. And because of the fact that he was an important member of the faculty at Harvard, so even though all he produced was an intoxicant, he gave it so much explanation, that "This is..."
Prabhupāda: Transcendental meditation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, this is transcendental. "This is real psychotherapy," he called it. He made it seem like this is legitimate, this is a bona fide experiment, just like you go to a psychologist or psychiatrist. He tried to explain it as a medical drug for helping the mind. But as a result of it so many people became crazy by using it.
Prabhupāda: Howling.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you saw so many people who were taking it in America.
Prabhupāda: Seventy-five percent. Therefore Devānanda presented it: "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is hippies' movement."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Devānanda. I remember at one initiation ceremony you asked... It was Kauśalyā. You said to her, "What are the four principles?" So she stated them. Then you said, "What is the fifth?" So she didn't know what to answer. Then you said, "No LSD."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When he came here...
Prabhupāda: That means they condemned. They tried for the last, at least, hundred years to expand them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It didn't work.
Prabhupāda: They dared to attack America even in that Pearl Harbor.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like that was crazy, craziness. How they could have thought to attack America? Like a mosquito trying to kill an elephant.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Apad kare viparīta-buddhi.(?)
Bhakti-caru: Some say that it was framed, because that way only got America involved in the war. And American generals knew about that attack on Pearl Harbor.
Prabhupāda: And why they should attack? If they wanted to live there, they're welcome. Why should they attack? Viparīta-buddhi. Many Chinese people were living in America peacefully. They could also live, go. America would have welcomed them. They're very intelligent, artisans. Why attack?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of Haṁsadūta's men has been living in Kodaykanal with this Doctor Ghosh. Perhaps he... I'm saying perhaps. I don't know. I had no contact with the man.
Prabhupāda: I said you don't ask him about anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, this Ikṣvāku is crazy. He's crazy. I can find out if that's how he found out, but I suspect that's what it is. He's very difficult, that devotee. I'll be able to find out. I can't... There's no other way he could have possibly come, except through Ikṣvāku.
Prabhupāda: Who is he?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Ikṣvāku? He's a German devotee who has been living in Kodaykanal with Dr. Ghosh. He's a little crazy.
Abhirāma: Independent.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whatever you tell us is all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm. And from Vrindavan, if he's not getting business stop all, everything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not getting business. He told me he's having bad luck, he cannot get a new business.
Prabhupāda: Oh, so if he has to do business, he has to pay cash and he'll give fifty percent.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If he was getting the business, he would have paid your BBT some money.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In over a year he has paid two or three thousand rupees. That's not business. He's taking 800 rupees a month for so long for travel expenses, and he's paid maybe two or three thousand rupees total. I mean it's crazy business.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anybody can see it's not good business.
Prabhupāda: So stop it all.
| Page Title: | Craziness (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Archana, MadhuGopaldas, Gopinath, Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 22 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=128, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 128 |