Court (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"court" |"court's" |"courtcase" |"courthouse" |"courtroom" |"courts"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: How about from the crowd?

Prabhupāda: Crowd, of course, whenever there is crowd, it is natural—police do not like it. So we don't create crowd. But generally, people, out of inquisitiveness they gather together and see how they are chanting. They are sympathetic. They contribute. They purchase our books and literature. The people, public is sympathetic. The police are also sympathetic. They don't object when we go at night, but during busy hours, they object. So one of our students was arrested by the police. So he was taken to the court, and I gave them $315 for what is called? Bail. But he was not convicted. He was immediately liberated, and now our money was returned. So it is not a problem.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 23, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. And nowadays in the courts, they use machines. The judges also cannot remember what has been argued between the parties. So they take this tape recorder and give judgement. Because the argument is going on for two days, three days, how much he can remember? And when he gives judgement he has to take consideration of all the arguments, then give his judgement. So this machine helps.

Conversation with Religious Group -- July 27, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Convince means you have to convince me with your reasoning power or presentation. That is not very difficult thing. Two lawyers are fighting in the court. They are convincing. Now the judgement is there. So that fighting means for convincing, not only in law court, in everywhere. In assembly, in Parliament, in Senate house. That is a regular thing. Now the majority is accepting. Now this shall be... What is that?

Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And her children have been placed in the custody of the girl's parents. So the girl does not even have custody of the children. So she is not in any way, so to speak,... She does not have to stay in this city because of her children because the courts have decided that her mother will take charge of the children. She has brought them to the temple on weekends. They're very intelligent. They like to... Oh, they like the puppets. They like to paint and draw pictures of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: But how she can travel with you? She has no husband.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. So what do you think? Is it all right for her to travel with us or better not to?

Prabhupāda: Because she has no husband?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it does not look very nice.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: So śaśan ke adhikārī means they should be punished. (laughs) Punished means, just like dhol, when the, I mean to say, sound is not very hard, dag-dag, if you beat it on the border, then it comes to be nice tune. Similarly, paśu, animals, if you request, "My dear dog, please do not go there." Hut! (laughter) "No, my dear dog." Hut! This is the way.(?) Similarly, woman. If you become lenient, then she will be troublesome. So in India still, in villages, whenever there is some quarrel between husband wife, the husband beats and she is tamed. (laughs) In civilized society, "Oh, you have done this?" Immediately some criminal case. But in uncivilized society they don't care for court or civilized way of... Kicharī.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: No difference, but one has to test whether he is holy man. Then you have to, he has to corroborate with the statement of the scripture. Spiritual master is to be tested whether he is holy man, and whether there is corroboration in the statement of the scriptures. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya tinete koriya aikya. Just like the law court, the experienced lawyer's speaking and giving evidence. Sādhu-śāstra, and the judge is giving judgement, "Here is a statement, here is this lawbook." He has (indistinct). He also testing, the judge is also testing how the lawyer is speaking, and how it is corroborates to the lawbook. So similarly everything has to be tested in that way. The scripture should be consulted, and we should have to see whether it is corroborated. So we should not accept any man as spiritual master or holy man if he does not corroborate with the statement of the scripture. So we should not accept any man as spiritual master or holy man if he does not corroborate with the statement of the scripture. He's at once rejected.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, your point is happiness; my point is happiness. That is all right. But what is that happiness? Just like the same example can be that two litigants, they have gone to the court. Their aim is justice. But how that justice can be had, that is an argument and on the point of law. Similarly, everyone's point is happiness. And what is that standard of happiness, that you have to take from some authority. That authority we accept, Kṛṣṇa. And if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then we cannot come to the conclusion what is happiness. So you will simply waste our time. Begin ārati. (break) You see? It was... Sometimes the light was coming, sometimes... That means they were adjusting. There was some meeting, adjusting. As soon as it is coming to the real point it was light. And as soon as not in the real point there is no light. So it is a science. Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijñānam It is a vijñāna.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, another, another instance is there. Just like conchshell. Conchshell is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic instruction, if you touch the bone of an animal, you become impure. You have to take bath. You become impure. But this conchshell is kept in the deity room because it's accepted as pure by the Vedas. So my point is that we accept Vedic laws in such a way, without argument, accept because it is stated in the Vedas, and that is the principle followed by scholars. If you can substantiate your statement by quoting from the Vedas, then it is accepted. You do not require to substantiate in other ways if you prove by Vedic quotation. Śruti-pramāṇa. It is called śruti-pramāṇa. There are different kinds of pramāṇa, evidences. Just like in the legal court if you can give quotation from the law books, your statement is accepted, similarly, all statements which you give, if they are supported by śruti-pramāṇa... I think you know. The Vedas are known as Śrutis.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Devotee: Well, we fought this out in the court here and the magistrate allowed that we can chant. There is no law who can stop chanting. But the police, authorities, they say, well, "You are obstructing the traffic." And under that we are arrested.

Prabhupāda: They can find out anything.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: In American in every court case, we win. (laughter)

Revatīnandana: Well, we lost here several times.

Devotee: Last, year, when we went to the police authorities for our procession here, and we wanted to make three rathas and the police officer, he was so envious, he said, "No. There is no law, we can put three rathas on the street." We said, "What is the harm? Won't you give us protection?" "So many people will be dying and killed under the ratha. If the ratha is so big and all that. People will be killed." I said, "They are big all over the world. This is for God consciousness."

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: So keep this principle in view, that you have to become swan, not crows. They say that everyone, every religion is all the same. This is all nonsense. (indistinct) In Bhagavad-gītā there are different types of religion, sattvic, rajarsic, tamasic. And our this... If you take it as religion, this is transcendental. Sa vai puṁsām paro dharmo (SB 1.2.6). Paraḥ means transcendental, it is not ordinary, aparaḥ. In aparaḥ dharma, the materialistic dharma, there are ritualistic ceremonies how to make one perfect for accepting transcendental religion. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is directly putting oneself in the transcendental. That is the special (indistinct). Caitanya Mahāprabhu... (aside) Why don't you close it? Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is to be supposed that you have finished all other types of religion. My Guru Maharaja used to cite one example that one's friend was sitting on the high-court judge's bench. So he was speaking to another, "Oh, that Panchu was playing with us naked. He is sitting on the high-court judge's bench. Oh, how he was playing with us naked, how he is seated in the high-court bench?" "Yes, I have seen, you have seen actually he is sitting." "Oh, then he must not be getting salary." He must not be getting salary. So this is the argument. Familiarity breeds contempt. So he cannot believe that he has become a high-court judge. He thinks that "I am a rascal fool and my friend, how he can become high-court judge? He must not be getting salary." But is that very good argument that the high-court judge is seated there without any salary? This argument is false(?). That is enviousness. Nirmatsarata. That is the habit of the conditioned soul.

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: These are the remark. And now we have to establish this, that this is the only way to reach God. You have to become scholar, philosopher, worker, practical behavior. And that is the fact. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)? You have to prove it. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ: "Except surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, anything, that is simply cheating," cheating, kaitavaḥ. Cheating religion. This is challenged by God, "Cheating religion." We have to save people from the cheating type of religion, cheating type of religion, cheating type of dharma. It is so important movement. So this is very good thought of high-court judges. He has stated also, just before that, vicāra.

Room Conversation with Gaurachand Gosvami At the Radha-Damodara Temple (Mostly Bengali) -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why five hundred? Sixty...

Indian man: Sixty-five rupees per thousand for the stamp duty, then court fees, and then other (indistinct) solicitor charges or the (indistinct) charges. So the last time... (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So...

Indian man: Would you like to see the draft, Prabhupāda, first?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian man: If you like it, then I can send that draft?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is... I want...

Indian man: You want to see the draft first?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if there is little to be changed, then...

Indian man: But that is a rough draft I read last night.

Guru dāsa: But we should include that section that says that the front part cannot be used for any commercial...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa means... Kṛṣṇa's name is given according to His office. Just like a person at home, he is "father," and in the court he is "my lord," the same man. Same man, high-court judge, his wife is calling him by name, "John." His son is calling the same man, "father." His brother is calling the same man, "brother." And the same man, when he goes to the court, he is called "my lord." So these names are in connection with his service. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. So He can have many millions of names. Because He is unlimited, He has got unlimited business also. So He can be called according to that name, according to that business. But this name, Kṛṣṇa, is the best because Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: All-attractive. Just like the same man; he is attracting his son; he is attracting his wife; he is attracting his servant; he is attracting in the court his client. So many ways he is attracting. Therefore somebody is calling him "father," somebody "husband," somebody this, somebody this. So if there is one name, that is Kṛṣṇa, "All-attractive." He attracts all. This is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa. And if God is not all-attractive, then how He can be God?

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: . So according to Vedic civilization, whatever is stated in the Vedas, we take it-fact. That's all. Śruti. Śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti means Vedas. Pramāṇam means evidence. According to Indian system... There are two persons talking, arguing, but the person who can give Vedic evidence, he is victorious. That's all. That is the system. Just like in law court two lawyers are fighting, but the lawyer who is giving evidences from the lawbook, he is accepted by the judge. And therefore, generally you will find, whenever we speak something, we give evidence from the śāstra in Sanskrit, in all our books. That is the way of proving that whatever I am speaking, it is fact. In the Bhāgavata it is already stated, lavaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. Keśa means hair. To keep long, long hair will be the practice of people because they will think by keeping long hair they look very beautiful.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: You cannot say that I have got a different faith. I do not care for the laws of God. If it is a law... Just like, for example, here in the state, if you kill somebody, then you have to pay for it with your life. So if that is the law in your state, why a similar law in broader sense is not there in the courts of God, law..., law of God? You can avoid the arrest by the police and punishment by the state law by tricks, but you cannot avoid by tricks the law of God. That is not possible. If you violate the law of God, then you will be punished. If you violate the law..., just like if you touch fire your hand will be burned, so this law you cannot violate. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim, if you touch fire, the law of God is that it will burn. So it will not care for you whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian. So law of God is applicable to everyone. Either you are Hindu or Muslim or Christian or you have got this faith or that faith, doesn't matter. So we have got such a God whose laws are equally respectable.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must. The State must be responsible. What the State reply?

Jayatīrtha: Well, they're having to litigate in court over it. The State doesn't want to do it. So this university there is one of the most famous universities in the whole country. They spend so many millions of dollars to maintain it nicely. (break) (dog barking) ...changing their bodies in particular ways to make them look (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: When you do not take care of God, you must take care of dog. (laughter)

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) We don't give any credit to any man if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our final conclusion. We can give credit so much, as you have got. Just like you are a driver. So I can give you the credit of a driver. But I cannot give you the credit of a high-court judge. So much, what you know, that much credit...

Brahmānanda: Future.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When in future you become high-court judge, then I shall give you credit. Why before you want to take credit?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So one has to have certain qualifications.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Activity without knowing the purpose of it, that is struggle for existence. You must know why you are working so hard. What for I shall work? The aim of life is missing. Na te viduḥ. They do not know it. Therefore failure, confusion, hopelessness. All the results of this world, hopelessness. Is it not? What is one... Show one result, that it is very successful, hopeful. Just like, say, moon planet-hopelessness. What is there? They spend so much time and money, but what is this? Hopelessness. They do not know. All scientists are working, all politicians are financing, but result is hopelessness. Is it not? Similarly, everything they are doing, but they are so rascal, they will never admit that "We are failure." Still they will stick, "Yes, we are success... Future, in ten years we shall do it. Never mind." I have seen, one man was condemned to death in Allahabad high-court. So the lawyer was assuring, "Don't be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal. Don't be disappointed." I have seen it. That lawyer was very big lawyer, an Englishman, Mr. Allston. And one man was condemned to death. He killed his servant very mercilessly. And the case was... He was a doctor, medical practitioner. So he was condemned to death. So after the condemnation, when he was coming out of the courtroom, I saw that he was flattering, "Don't be disappointed. I shall get you out by appeal." This is going on. He wants to bluff him, but this is the high-court judgement. How there can be appeal? There may be appeal in the Supreme Court, but he is simply bluffing. Just like medical men. They'll repeatedly give you medicine, "All right, let me try this. This pill you try. This pill you try." They will never admit, "This is hopeless." This is going on. Bluffing, simply bluffing. Cheating, that's all.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, that is your, that is your point of view, but that is not our point of view.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, right, we disagree on that one.

Śyāmasundara: You said once, in a court of law, if there are two points of view at the final judgment, it has to be judged by the results of which point of view. So if you, if you judge by the results of our process and his process which people are..., have attained to some kind of perfect understanding of themselves, some kind of satisfaction with life, you have to point to our process and say that ours gets the balance of favorable opinion, because in your process, no one has been made happy.

Krishna Tiwari: How does say that in your process, anybody has been made happy?

Prabhupāda: Everyone who follows Vedic injunctions, they're happy.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: He saw it is very intelligent.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "How, how a scholar I am I! I wrote this is the specimen of other scholars." (Bengali-recites some verses) And this sort of poems was produced by him in the court. The king was charmed. This man was perplexed. So Tīrtha Mahārāja (?) is like Balarāma. And he, and he...

Prabhupāda: Nobody should be allowed. (laughter)

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is, that is, that is our... Teacher means... When I approach a teacher, he must be a bona fide teacher. He should not be cheater. If he has no sufficient knowledge, he should not pose himself as a teacher.

Mr. Wadell: Well, I am afraid I would be right out of court cause you see I have often to confess to my pupils that I do not know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is going on, but that is not the system. If you do not know, you should not become a teacher. That is our proposition. (laughs)

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And ignorance. If we give service in ignorance, without knowing what is what, that kind of service may lead us to become punished. So we must know what kind of service we shall give. So real suffering of the society, human society, or any society you take, real suffering is, because the living entity has forgotten God, so he is being punished in different way by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So many ways. But everyone is being punished. At least, the three kinds... Why three kinds? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that this is also punishment, repetition of birth and death. This is also punishment. Because we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are spirit soul, we are eternal. So our, this constant change of body, birth and death, that is also punishment. Because nobody wants to die. Because he is eternal. How he'll like to die? He wants to keep his eternal position, but he, because he's criminal... Just like one man is condemned to die, murderer. So he has to die. But he wants to protect himself, placing himself in the court, "How to save? How to save?" So that is our natural tendency, that we do not want to die. Why? Because we are eternal.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, two million kinds of dresses of the trees, plants, like that. In this way the Vedic literatures have calculated, there are eight million, four hundred thousand forms of living entity. But they're all living entities, part and parcel of God. Just like one man has got ten sons. Not all of them equally meritorious. Not all. One may be high-court judge. And one may be ordinary clerk in the office. But father, both the high-court judge and the clerk in the office, father claims both of them as son.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, I agree.

Prabhupāda: For father, there is no such distinction that: "This high-court judge is very important and the clerk in the office, my son, he's not important." So if the enlightened son, high-court judge, says to the father: "My dear father, your, this son, is useless. Let me cut him and eat."

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is our Vedic evidence. Whenever we speak something, immediately quote from Vedas. This is our process. If it is accepted by the Vedic process, then it is perfect. Just like in the law court. You are lawyer. You are arguing. When you quote from a judgement, previous judgement, it is accepted. Similarly, when you give authoritative statement support of your talking, then it is perfect. That is the way. Otherwise, what for these books are there? If it is mental speculation what is the use of these books? But as soon as we speak something, we immediately support by quoting from Vedic literature. And that is perfect. And now you have to possess little knowledge.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Still there are so many respectable person came. The governor came, the high-court justices and that, the Canadian ambassador came. Many men came. And he was very humble. He sat down below.

Guest (1): You didn't see the high commissioner there. He sat down.

Prabhupāda: He's also a very nice man.

Guest (1): Maybe some pious activities that they have.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Mostly they are vegetarian, strictly vegetarian. Actually, in Southern India, they maintain the Hindu culture. You'll find big high-court judges, they have got tilaka.

Ambassador: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Strictly in Rāmānuja sampradāya, or Śaiva sampradāya they have got... Strictly taking bath and tilaka. In New Delhi, you'll find so many Madrasi gentlemen, big, big, high officers, they're strictly following Hindu principles.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One side, that Vāsudeva Ācārya and Sar Kunja Babu Ācārya. And Paramānanda, he thought that "Whoever will be powerful, I shall join them." (laughing) He only thought. But Guru Mahārāja never asked that these three men should be trustees. He wanted governing body. So the rebellion broke out immediately after his passing away. And then fight in the high-court. And Kunja Babu, he is very intelligent man. So from the very beginning he knew that "There will be fight after the demise of Guru Mahārāja. So fight will be in the high-court.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is natural. Yes. Surāśū-sākṣimat. Surāśū-sākṣimat. In the liquor shop so there was some trouble. So he went to court. He went to court. So the court asked him, "Where is your witness?" So he brought one witness, drunkard. You see? Surāśū-sākṣimat. So that is māyā, ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), misusing power and blaming God, "Why God...?" God has made everything. Just like here. It is made not to move. Stay. But we are better than this. Is it not? It cannot move. So God has made this also. But because we can move, we are better than this. And if, if, if they say that "God, why he has made me to commit mistake?" This rascal does not understand that that is freedom. You, why don't you take the right one? God says, "This is right." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why don't you take it? And still, how you can say God is bad? What is the argument?

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "I am not killing the snake. My stick is killing." Is that very good argument? (laughter) These rascals, all these rascals, they avoid. "I am not killing. I am not responsible. My, my, this stick has killed." Just see. If you go to the court: "Sir, I have not killed, my stick has killed." Just see how rascal they are.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That, they are hopeful of doing everything but never successful, never. That they'll never become. Unless they are hopeful, how... Just like a physician. The man is going to die, still, he's thinking, "Yes, I am hopeful." I have seen in Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death, and his lawyer solacing him. "Don't be sorry. I'll appeal, I'll appeal. I'll get you out." You see? This is their business.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But tradition, what is that tradition? Tradition is here, in the proof. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The reference is given to the quality, guṇa, and karma, and action. How you can simply say that because I'm born in such and such family, therefore I have also the same thing. Because my father was high-court judge, therefore I am high-court judge. Is that very good logic? How you became superior? You have to prove your superiority by your qualification and actual work. This is very nice. The world is accepting like that. Somebody's coming to you to accept some scientific instruction. He accepts you're superior in scientific knowledge, not for your birth, but for your quality and work. That is fact. So you first of all come to the platform of the quality and work, then you claim superior.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. So why did you not arrest him and give to the police?

Govardhana: We did. We beat him. Then we took him to court and had him put in jail for three months.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So... Now here, why do they not check? A rascal, cheater, and he is presenting himself as God, and why the government is allowing him? Rather, we should bring a case that why government, against the constitution, is allowing this rascal that he is declaring that he is God? What qualification he has got? let it be decided in the court. We should do that.

Svarūpa: We have to make definition of religion.

Prabhupāda: That we shall give in the court. "First of all this man is declaring himself as God, cheating. Why he should not be stopped?" Let there be case. This should be done.

Yaśomatīnandana: Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. If the constitution is that, that in the name of religion somebody cheats, the government should take action, so here it is being done. So we have to maintain so many departments to fight with these wrongdoers. Why not make a test case that "This man is declaring himself God. How he is God? Let him prove in the court."

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Well, they say, "That's going on anyway."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then there is no question of philosophy. Finish. Everything one. That... This philosophy was discussed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His mother. He was eating dirt, and mother gave Him sandeśa. So He did not care to take sandeśa. He was eating dirt. Then mother came, "My dear boy, why you are eating dirt? Here is sandeśa. I have given you." "Mother, what is the difference between sandeśa and dirt? They are all the same. (laughing) They are all the same." "Yes, my dear boy, You are impersonalist philosopher. But it is required. Just like the water jug is also earth, made of earth. It is earth. And this ground is also earth. But when you have to keep water you require this water jug, not this earth." That is relativity. If you have to take work, then you cannot say, "Well, this is also earth, this is also... Why...? The pot is not required. Put water here." Then you will suffer, no water. So this kind of philosophy was discussed when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a child. (break) ...and the tree is the same thing. But when I walk, I require the stick, not this tree. (break) ...The dogs must be on lash (leash). If somebody does not do that, he is criminal. So if he pleads in the court, "There is no difference, dogs on the lash or without lash.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Could be a judge, a high-court judge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means administrator.

Karandhara: Yes. The other one could be the president.

Prabhupāda: Yes, president also administrator. No, one is in the religious order. That is also required. But here we see, persons who are in religious order, they're also addicted to these four sinful, four sinful life. And he's presenting himself as religious.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Well, the one man, the president, will be behind the presidential podium, presidential seal. In the front. And the other man would be a high-court judge with...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Karandhara: ...with black robes on.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Nara-nārāyaṇa: With a, two balls.

Prabhupāda: Make nicely this picture. Short-cut, at the same time very convincing.

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That Chaganlal this, I pay him extra eighty-five thousand. That is also black. No more white. So the black money was paid in this way, that the money was counted and it was put in a handbag, and it was locked by him. So the key was with him, and the bag was with me. As soon as court accepted the agreement, then I handed over, "Take this bag." Then again this Ratna Parik, he first of all proposed twenty thousand to sell that house. Then when I went there, he knew that he's settling at any cost, he said, "Now that twenty thousand was cost formerly. Now things have gone very high, I cannot sell." So he knows that we are eager to purchase. Then I said, "Then what do you want to do?" "Now I want thirty thousand." "All right, yes. Take it." I did not argue. In this way I settled up. And our Girirāja's father appreciated that "It is better a bad settlement than to prolong the case." So I took this policy. It is bad settlement, from twenty thousand to thirty thousand. But settled out. "I give you 85,000 black." But one thing I gain—that by cancelling the agreement, their proposal was that increase the price, twenty lakhs from fourteen lakhs. That was the arrangement between the attorneys. They cancelled the agreement and take twenty lakhs from him, and the balance should be divided by..., amongst us. That was the agreement. So that addition of twenty lakhs I satisfied Mrs. Nair by fourteen lakhs fifty thousand.

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then if he cannot, then he is cat and dog. He is not a human being. Why he should accept initiation? Let him remain a cat and dog. He promises to follow, and if he cannot follow, then he is nothing but cat and dog. In the court, they take promises, that "In the name of God," "In the name of Bible." So that means he will speak the truth. Similarly, before the fire, before Deity, before guru, before devotees, he is promising something, and if he does not follow, then he is cat and dog. He cannot advance. It is not possible. That is the distinction between cat and dog and human being. Cat and dog, they cannot promise. It is not possible. But a human being can promise. And if he keeps his promise, then he is human being. Otherwise cat and dog. Word of honor. The cats and dogs, they have no sense of honor. Either you kick him or pat, he does not know what is the difference. That is cat and dog. He does not know the distinction. A human being knows what is promise, what is word of honor.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why in the school? In every home.

Prajāpati: Well, it was a very big issue several years ago. They used to have a prayer at the beginning of each school day. But then one demoniac lady, one atheist, she, by her, simply by her will-power got the Supreme Court to rule that unconstitutional. Now prayers are not allowed in schools anymore unless we make an amendment to the constitution, saying "Yes, we can have a prayer in school." Then it would be allowed.

Prabhupāda: Even prayers are allowed, unless there is scientific knowledge of God, that will not help. The prayer's still going on in the churches, but what improvement? They have become hackneyed. It requires training.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Satsvarūpa: When Darwin's theory was first being taught in America, there was opposition from the Christians, and there was a famous court trial called the Scopes case, and the Bible was used to, against this so-called scientific theory. But the Bible is so inadequate that they lost.

Prabhupāda: Yeah, Bible cannot be because it is itself unscientific.

Satsvarūpa: The lawyer proved that the Bible could not disprove the Darwin's theory.

Prabhupāda: Then why do they not reject Bible altogether?

Nitāi: Sentiment.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why do they not reject? Why still? Of course, it is sentiment. They do not accept Bible. The so-called Christians, they do not accept Bible.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is our purpose to (indistinct).

Guest (1): Unfortunately some things happened, and some court matters are going on.

Prabhupāda: Court?

Guest (1): Court matters, some, some law suits, etc. which I have filed which aggregate to the extent of about crore rupees or so.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Guest (1): Oh, I mean I'll get that much. That could be as good amount as you (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Where? Where? Your claim?

Guest (1): Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: You have to, you have to pay so much stamping fee.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If you have no money, then you cannot get justice, because he's claiming it is right claim, but if he had no fifteen thousand, then he could not claim it. Fifteen thousand is there, then (indistinct), so on , so on. So anyone who has no money, he cannot get justice in Kali-yuga. (Hindi)

Guest (1): A lot of that fifteen thousand is exempted in some cases, but even then you have to figure out some (indistinct) and remain in the, I mean present yourself in the court in the mood to argue and talk and all that things. So naturally if you don't have even that much, you have to forego (indistinct). What you're saying is hundred percent true. Yes. It's like that.

Prabhupāda: And nowadays bribe also.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is recorded in the court. There was a court case, and it was found that Gopālajī belongs to the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, who was pressing the court case?

Prabhupāda: It was amongst themselves.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To see who should get the right to worship.

Prabhupāda: In Delhi there is a lawyer. He told me. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21).

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, other Vaiṣṇavas. But... The on... This Vaiṣṇava party, they stress on Bāla-Kṛṣṇa, Gopāla. We also, we have got our Gopāla, as Mādhavendra Purī installed a Gopāla. That Gopāla is now worshiped, Nāthavara (?), by the Vallabha-sampradāya. That is Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava Deity. It is admitted in the court. (break) ...the modern civilization is that they do not know that this, there is transmigration of the soul, and this constant change of body is not very good. They do not know anything. Neither they do know that there is change of body. Neither they feel that "The constant change of body is not very good. If there is any remedy?" These rascals, they do not find the final remedy. They are busy with the temporary problems. Real problem they set aside. (break) ...simply being bewildered by the three guṇas, sattva-rajo-tamo-guṇa, they do not know the ultimate goal is Kṛṣṇa. They do not know it. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think...

Guest (2): She printed a photo in the London papers also and challenged that "I can beat any computers in the western world." (break)

Guest (1): Under one high-court?

Prabhupāda: Under one high-court, yes.

Guest (2): Āśrama (?) also.

Guest (1): Asambala. (?)

Prabhupāda: Hmmm? Yes.

Guest (3): (Bengali) (break)

Guest (2): During the festival days...,

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. The starting is already there.

Viṣṇujana: They even have a court system now. They started it when I was there last time. They have so many members that sometimes someone may commit some offense or something. They even have a judicial type of system where he comes before a board of members, older members.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All fights should be decided by the board. That's nice. And it will be accepted even by the court. Here, in India, there is such system. A board of five, ten men in the village, if there is some fight between two parties, whatever the board will decide that will be accepted in the court. Pañcāyeta. It is called pañcāyeta system. (break) You join. There will be no scarcity. This will engage people. Some are, some of them will be engaged to produce food. Where is the question of scarcity? There is food, there is milk. Eat and drink and be human beings.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then, then you have to go, public should go. Those who are interested Hindus and Vaiṣṇavas, they should go to the court and prove in the court that it is not nuisance, essential.

Guest: No, they are three things. Number one is a nuisance. Now, the nuisance is always to be proved. Really, merely by saying, two people or five people that the bhajanas, and the kīrtanas are a nuisance because...

Prabhupāda: No, no. People now, people are drunkards, meat-eaters. They may, even they show, that is not authority. Authority is the śāstras.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, they, they may be secular, but they cannot neglect your one śāstra.

Guest: Therefore they are neglecting it. They should not neglect it. They should not...

Prabhupāda: So that is to be decided by the court.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Guest: Because in the court of law you require a person who should be Indian citizen, and he should have some...

Prabhupāda: Then that... No, Indian citizen we have got. Just like here. He is Indian man. Or to the... But in proportion, they are not even one percent. That is the difficulty. And if the government likes that if they make it without... Just like I was refused entrance in Africa, Nairobi. So if the government says that... There, they understand that these Americans making this satyagrama (?), or as you have proposed, then immediately, within twenty-four hours, they will be deported. Then I do not know who will manage my, so many establishment. Therefore if the Hindus and the Vaiṣṇavas, they combine together that "This is an important proposal," they go to the court, they give their signature, they come here, that will be nice. It may be long time. That doesn't matter. But that will be solid thing. And if the government becomes, "Oh, these Americans are making this propaganda," at any moment they can ask that "Within twenty-four hours you get out."

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He... That example I'm giving, that the law is that the murderer should be hanged. If you fight, "I don't care for this law, because you are hanging one person," that will be contempt of court. You may not like, but the law is there. You cannot condemn the law. That is my point. That is my point.

Indian man (4): My point is no meat-eating by Vaiṣṇavas.

Prabhupāda: You, you... You do not like that anyone should be condemned to death...

Dr. Patel: That, that's all right.

Prabhupāda: ...but for that reason you cannot condemn the law.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Lord Śiva is Lord Śiva. He is very powerful demigod. He can give. He has got the power. But in spite of being favored by Lord Śiva, in spite of his becoming the great devotee of Lord Śiva, why he is described as rākṣasa? That is the point. So therefore if I say Rāvaṇa a rākṣasa, according to the śāstra, another devotee may be angry. So what can I do? It is stated in the śāstra, rākṣasa. Similarly, in the śāstra it is stated that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: "If one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he is duṣkṛtina, the most sinful, mūḍhā, rascal, naradhāma, lowest of the mankind, māyayā apahṛta-jñāna." These things are there. But if we quote the śāstra, that "This man has not surrendered to the Supreme Lord; therefore he is a rascal," then what is wrong with us? It may be very strong words, but it is stated in the śāstra. Just like about Rāvaṇa, it is stated that he is a rākṣasa. So it may be very insulting and strong words, but this is the statement of the śāstra. And if one quotes from the śāstra, what is wrong on his part? Suppose in the court a big man has done something criminal, and the judgement is that he should be punished. So can you accuse the court, "Oh, such a big man?" Just like... For the time being let us understand. Mahatma Gandhi was put to jail in so many times. So nobody could say because according to law there was civil disobedience. So if the law puts you in the jail, so can you protest against that? Then you will be also put into jail, contempt of court.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why they should interpret? Interpretation is required when there is no understanding. If the matter is clearly understood, why interpretation? This is rascaldom. Everyone understands this is called glass. And what is the use of interpretation? Here is a glass. Everyone can understand. Or spectacle. No, no. This is meaning this. Why? If the thing is clearly understood, there is no question of interpretation. You cannot give. Suppose if you go to the court, if the thing is clearly understood that "This man has committed this criminal activity, he should be punished," so where is the difficulty? No. If somebody... "No no. This 'He should be punished' means not now, after three hundred years he should be punished." Is that interpretation? He should be punished immediately. That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

rabhupāda: That means rubbish brain, rubbish brain. You go, interpret and change the law. You go in the law court and you interpret in your own way. Can you interpret in the law court? "Sir, I have got a different interpretation." "Get out. Get out, rascal, from this..."

Indian Man (1): No, no. Even the judges in the Supreme Court in India, they go after the interpretations, they go and they become also one with the...

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is extraordinarily. When the meaning of the law is not very clear, that takes place. But when the thing is very clear, there is no question of interpretation.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he was earning fifty-thousand rupees at that time, fifty years ago. What is the value, just see. He was earning and spending like anything, lavishly, and he was so bad associated that wine and woman was his paraphernalia. That's all. As soon as there will be case engaged the first order is that "You have to supply so many cases of wine and so many batches of prostitute." That was C.R. Dasa's condition, first condition. In the Mopaceel(?) court when he would be invited to plead, the first condition is this. Then his fees. So in this way he was living. But he gave up. On Congress Movement he gave up everything practiced, but he died within one year.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁśa: He used to be running for the chief ministership. He's very, very popular, but there was some mischief he did, for which he was taken to court and exposed.

Prabhupāda: What is that mischief?

Mahāṁśa: I don't remember exactly, but he was taken to court and exposed and he was expelled from entering into any...

Prabhupāda: Party.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, Allahabad, very important. The UP high-court is there. Therefore all enlightened... University is there. All educated men of UP are in Allahabad. This Jawaharlal Nehru, Motilal Nehru, they were Allahabad men. Sarte(?) Bahadur Satru(?), big, big, well-known men, they are all... Pandita Madana Mohana Mahalabdha. All big, big politicians, they were Allahabad men. (break) ...times to print the books here. No action was taken. In the last five years, everyone tried and there was no result. Otherwise we can print all the books here.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: Tottenham Court Road. Yes, that big one. Central Point.

Prabhupāda: Yes (laughing). His kleśada is if he keeps tenant, that is more miserable than without keeping tenant. Is it not? Yes. Therefore he keeps without. Because so much taxes will have to be paid that it will be more miserable than keeping tenants. So he is avoiding that. So while constructing, it was troublesome; now, keeping this, it is also troublesome. To find out pleasure they have manufactured so many things. But still, they cannot enjoy it. For few minutes they can enjoy; again it is nonsense. "Let us go away."

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Well, if you have killed some man and you go to the court and if you say that "He is not killed," will you be saved?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, "How is this, that the only thing we've talked about since we've gotten here has been eating of meat? Is that the only...?"

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: He says, "How is that that the only thing we've talked about since we came today has been eating meat? Is that the only thing that the Bhagavad-gītā teaches?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, because our proposal is that unless you become... Find out that verse, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, te dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. This is the beginning of theism. Theism means you must be free from all sinful activities. That is theism. If you remain sinful you cannot make any progress in theism. That is the point.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Therefore those who do not do that, they have been described, mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). One who does not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, they're all rascals. That is our test. A man may be very nicely dressed, running fast in the motor car. Ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" "No, sir." "You are a rascal." That's all. Finish all business. We don't give any respect. We can give respect as a formality, but we can understand immediately, "Here is a rascal." That's all. Is that correct? Yes. To find out a rascal is very difficult job? Simply see that he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious. He's a rascal. That's all. That they may say, "You are very sectarian." Just like a criminal, he's punished, and he may say to high-court judge, "You are very sectarian. You are punishing me, and the other man, you awarded one million dollars. What is this?" Because he gave before a judgement that "This man must get this one million dollars," and next moment, he punishes one man, "Go to jail for six years." So the criminal may say, "Oh, you are so partial. You are giving, sending me to cell, and the other man, you are giving one million dollar. How is this?" But he does not know that he judging according to his work.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: In the court?

Devotee: Yes. Because, you knew about the Watergate case. He was caught...

Yogeśvara: Prabhupāda knows the story. He knows the incident. He was found innocent by who? By court?

Devotee: Yes, by the whole government. He had done some cheating and campaign making secret tape recordings against the other party.

Prabhupāda: He did? And still he is innocent?

Devotee: Yes. He paid so many millions, thousands and thousands of dollars. His party, the republican party, they put microphones and everything in the convention of the democrats and had spies and everything in order that he could find out their tricks. He had paid all these men and there were all fired.

Prabhupāda: So that is not bad because in politics you have to do that. Everyone does so. What is Nixon's fault?

Devotee: But only he got caught. And all of his men quit.

Prabhupāda: No, no, suppose you are my rival. So I wanted to know your secrecies. So I make some mechanical arrangement. That is not fault. That is not... Everyone does so. Why do you expect that he will not do that? He must do that. If you are my rival or enemy, to know your secrecy, I must endeavor to do everything. As you are doing, so I am.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Court says.

Devotee: The United States government. They had a big trial and everything. So they found tapes and everything, but there was some missing tapes. They could not directly pin him for the whole thing. He said, "I didn't know anything about it." He says, "My men were just doing it. I never told them to do it. They did it on their own, for me. They liked me so much, they were just doing it. I never paid them."

Yogeśvara: Isn't the kṣatriya qualities that he is to be trustworthy?

Prabhupāda: No. When there is political game, everyone does everything to gain his victory. In politics, these things are allowed. Just like killing, fighting, kṣatriya's fighting. That killing is allowed. But killing is not allowed generally. Kṛṣṇa has killed so many. If you take from moral point of view, He's sometimes immoral. He has killed His maternal uncle, Kaṁsa, and Śiśupāla, Śiśupāla, his cousin brother. And Balarāma killed Rukma. Once He saved him, and another time, that Aniruddha's marriage, or something like that... Balarāma killed Rukma, the brother of Rukmiṇī. They were family relatives. But there was some misunderstanding in chess playing that other party, Rukma, he was cheating by tricks. The Balarāma became so angry, they killed him. So in politics amongst the kṣatriyas, these things are not uncommon.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: When you were here last year, there was a meeting at the Indian Tourist Bureau, a press meeting, and there was a man who came to meet you at that time who is president of the court of Paris. And he was supposed to be a Buddhist. Do you remember this gentleman? He said to you that "Meat-eating... We must eat meat in the West. Maybe in India, because of the climate, you can get away with that."

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, another rascaldom. He's a first-class rascal. That was the support by Vivekananda. He was eating everything. All the Ramakrishna Mission, they say like that, "Oh, without meat-eating, without drinking, you cannot stay." All rascals. Therefore, the conclusion is, all rascals, the religious, social, all rascal. If they want to be saved from their rascal position, this is the only, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If they don't want to be saved, if they want to go to hell, who can check? Ātma-han. Ātma-han means "self-suicide." Suicide, yes. If you cut your throat yourself, who can save you? So they are all these like, all, all these Buddhists, Christian. We may not speak very strongly. They will be our enemies.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is proof. It is not emotion. What you say, you have no proof, but what I say I have got proof. What you say, you become your own authority. But what I say, I have got greater authority. Just like two lawyers speaking before the court—the lawyer who gives quotation from the authority, he gains the case.

Professor: Do you have any evidence?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Professor: Would you tell us your experiences in that field?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that, of course, it will take time for you to understand. Because unless you are lawyer, you cannot understand while the other lawyer is giving quotation. But the court will accept.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Well, in the eyes of the law, when you go to the court, if somebody has stolen some diamond and if somebody has stolen some insignificant thing, in the court the six month prison is there. The man who has stolen an insignificant thing, the judge does not make any concession for him. "You have stolen, you must go to the jail." And the man who has stolen the diamond, he also takes the same term. So stealing is stealing. Either you steal diamond or a little fruit, it doesn't matter. The punishment is the same for the diamond-stealer and anything-insignificant-stealer. That is the law.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: God is person. That I have already explained, that the government is impersonal, the president is person, but the president is more important than the whole government. Just like a man in the court of the government is condemned to die. So there is no law in the government which can save him. But if the president shows him mercy, he can save him. Therefore, the president is more powerful than all the laws in the government. Therefore he is important.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: But there is no business in crazy. We have no business with crazy. (some people are laughing and some are talking) All right, what is the time now? We have no business with crazy. This is practical. This is practical. If in the court the judge inquires, "What is your name," and if you say, "I am," he will immediately say, "He is a crazy man. Get him out." (several people start talking at once) This kind of knowledge has got no value. No, no. If he does not like to accept Kṛṣṇa as the name of God, he has got his name, say, Jehovah or Allah. That is all right.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: For politics, they can do anything, lie like anybody, and so many things. There was a big writer in Bengal. So he is giving evidence in the court... That's a comic. So he says, "Do you think I am editor? I am pleader? I am prostitute?" Means indirectly he is saying that they are prostitutes. As the prostitute can say anything, lies, for their profession, similarly, these people, the editor and the..., pleaders, they are like that. "Do you think I am prostitute? Do you think I am lawyer? Do you think I am editor, newspaper editor?" So take this formula from the śāstras that a living entity is never created. These rascals are trying to create living entity and spending money and going to hold big, big conference. So where is the question of creation? They are already created.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: 1918? In that year I was married. I was student at that time. I was student, 1900 up to '20. Then I joined Gandhi's noncooperation movement and gave up my education. His points were to give up English education, English court, English-manufactured goods, in this way.

Ambassador: How did you feel about Gandhiji spiritually?

Prabhupāda: He was a good gentleman, that's all. He had no spiritual asset.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Now I have elected this committee in Europe because the German trouble is going on. When the German trouble is over, there is no need of committee. It is only for this particular purpose because there we have to defend court, we have to see... So two, three heads, not one head. One head may be puzzled. Committee means for special purposes. Otherwise, the standing committee, GBC, is already there.

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: It has been confirmed in the court that this Deity belongs to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas. There was big case amongst themselves, and the court gave judgement that "This Deity belongs to the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava."

Acyutānanda: Oh. When was that court case?

Prabhupāda: Say, about four, five years ago. No, about ten to fifteen years ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Recently.

Acyutānanda: Who represented the Gauḍīya...?

Prabhupāda: Nobody, but from the history it was found that it belonged to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. That... In Delhi one lawyer is there. He knows. He told me.

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: If you get really assistance, there is no harm. Just like sometimes we go to the court; we pay to the lawyer because we are not expert. In that sense, it can be spent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But cautiously.

Prabhupāda: Yes. For nothing, because you have got money, no. Unless it is urgently or absolute necessary, you should not spend.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And there should be some... There should be some limitation. We should not spend tens of thousands of dollars...

Prabhupāda: No.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to become purified. That makes you all right. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva (Bs. 5.38). Sadaiva means always. This is the process. Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" What qualification have you got? He doesn't think like that, that "I have no qualification." He thinks that "I am very advanced." That is foolish. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ. Similarly a third-class man goes to a high-court judge. Foolish rascals has come. "Who is that?" "I don't know." There was an incident. One big philosopher and one big dramatic player.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: How degraded the human society is becoming. And the children, they are discussing.

Amogha: It seems that step by step, in the law courts and the judges, everyone is step by step accepting more and more degradation, and makind it legal, everything.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It is not meant for mass people. Only selected fortunate. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "If I could make one person to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then my mission would be successful." It is not for mass person. Only the fortunate they can do. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by introducing saṅkīrtana, even the mass can take part. When there is saṅkīrtana, everyone joins. And by joining in that way, they will become purified.

Amogha: In Sydney, the city council once tried to stop us, legally, from chanting in the streets. First they arrested us two years ago, but then they spent many dollars of tax money to prepare a case for the court, and they didn't even tell us. They had the court session, and the judge ruled that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting in the streets is good. It adds color to the city and is not illegal. Why you are saying this is illegal? This is their right. And it makes the city more colorful."

Prabhupāda: Nice judge. God gave him sense.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): They swear on the Bible in the court. And I was reading in the paper the other day that now in England they have passed a law whereby a man cannot be convicted of rape if he honestly believes that the woman consented to be raped.

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that? Woman?

Devotee (1): They said that the man cannot be convicted of rape if he honestly believes that the woman consented to his raping her.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is law always. Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, "Yes, I felt happiness." So he was released. "Here is consent." And that's a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, "Yes, I felt some pleasure." "Now, there is consent." So he was released. After all, it is an itching sensation. So either by force or by willingly, if there is itching, everyone feels relieved itching it. That's a psychology. It is not that the woman do not like rape. They like sometimes. They willingly. That is the psychology. Outwardly they show some displeasure, but inwardly they do not. This is the psychology.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That he is God.

Amogha: There was an article in the paper yesterday from India that says that the Indian court has banned Guru Maharaj-ji from leaving India. They have issued an order that he must stay until the court has finished because his brother is suing. Because his brother published a photo showing Guru Maharaj-ji embracing and kissing an American girl in the paper. So the Guru Maharaj-ji published a picture of his brother doing the same thing. But they say it was a fake photo, so the court is holding him in India, and they're having a legal battle, suing each other to see who is God.

Prabhupāda: Farce.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Now the court says, "You cannot leave India until we settle this." They've issued a court order not to leave India.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Amogha: Yes. He can remain there. (pause)

Prabhupāda: The case is... Who is the complainer?

Amogha: Well, originally... The story is something that the father started the whole movement, and then he died.

Prabhupāda: He was a great cheat.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: So now he has gone to India to try to win the battle, and in the course he has been sued, and the court order says he must stay until the suit is finished.

Gaṇeśa: When the movement first came out to Australia about three or four years ago, one of his disciples who was a girl, she came through Perth, and at that time I was arguing Bhagavad-gītā with her, but she could not understand. She could not see that it was Kṛṣṇa to surrender to and not Guru Maharaj-ji.

Amogha: Whenever we place a good argument with them, they say, "Yes, but all these words are just words, and actually it is beyond words. The truth is beyond words. So never mind."

Prabhupāda: You are talking words. You are not beyond.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: "God is detained by the word of court." He has no power to defy the words of court.

Paramahaṁsa: The judge will judge him.

Prabhupāda: And he is God.

Amogha: Yes. He will probably bribe the judge. That will be the real...

Prabhupāda: That is possible. Everything is possible.

Amogha: Because he is so rich he can pay the judge a few million rupees, and the judge will say, "Yes, yes, he is God." By court's rule.

Prabhupāda: Then the other party will go to appeal. Where he is being judged, in the Supreme Court or lower court?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: I'm not sure. Actually, the judgment is whether or not he put a false picture in the newspaper of his brother with a girl. The older brother is claiming that... First he put a picture in the paper showing the younger Guru Maharaj-ji kissing an American girl. So Guru Maharaj-ji put another counter-photo showing his older brother with an American girl. So the suit is over whether this second picture is a real picture or is it artificially made. That's what the court will decide.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is the suit.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So in other words, the case is that God cannot kiss an American girl. (laughs) Is that the case? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Not only he, but there are many others claim to become God. All of them should be brought into the court.

Paramahaṁsa: Didn't Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura do that once?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then we can understand he is God. Why does he go to the mercy of court? And the court has detained him. What kind of God...? So can you get charcoal?

Amogha: Charcoal, yes

Prabhupāda: Yes, get it.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No. Our viewpoint is that in the material world, who has accepted this material body—anyone, but we specially take the human society—they require treatment, everyone. Everyone is mentally diseased, and therefore he is unhappy. Everyone. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahād-guṇa (SB 5.18.12). Anyone who has no sense of God consciousness, he is diseased mentally. He requires treatment. The whole human society, especially at the present moment, they have given up God consciousness. They are not interested. That is their disease. And everyone requires treatment. So the whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the mass treatment of the materialistic persons who are mentally diseased. That is our proposition. It is... In India there was a case. A man committed murder, and he pleaded in the court that... His pleader, his lawyer, pleaded that he was mad at that time.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Just like now we have come to the point where the different doctors are thinking very seriously of having this mercy killing passed in the courts. When a person becomes too much diseased, actually he would be happier if he was dead, so why not kill him?

Prabhupāda: That is contradictory. He will kill somebody, and he will give life somebody. That is... There is no standard. Everything is all right. Then why do you bother that "This is good"? The same "good" is bad for others.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous law to allow divorce. Divorce should not be allowed. Even there is some disagreement between husband and wife, it should be neglected. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... He was great politician. He has said that dampatya kalahe caiva bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. The husband and wife's quarrel should not be taken very seriously. Ajā yuddhe (More quote by Cāṇakya) Just like fight between two goats. They are fighting, and if you say "Hut!" they will go away. Similarly, the fight between husband and wife should not be taken very seriously. Let them fight for some time; they will stop automatically. But the husband and wife fight, and he, as soon as he goes to the lawyer and he gives incentive, "Yes, come to the court." This is going on. So the first defect is there is divorce law. Another defect is that there is no method how to train a man to become first class. That is there in the Vedic civilization. Now of course in India that is also now abolished by degradation.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...Dr. Judah has written. Where is that book? That Dr. Judah's book?

Ambarīṣa: We took it to court, and I think (indistinct name)) has it.

Prabhupāda: One professor, Dr., what is his name?

Paramahaṁsa: Stillson.

Prabhupāda: Stillson Judah, he has... Many others also written books about us, but his book is very scholarly. He has written the same thing that... What is that dedication?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...body comes in her place he will be another.

Devotee: Yes. (break) ...to step down, she's going to defy the court order.

Siddha-svarūpa: They never want to step down.

Prabhupāda: Like Nixon, like Nixon. (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: They are junk tours from Japan. (break) ...finding security in his radio.

Prabhupāda: What is that security?

Siddha-svarūpa: It's false security. (break)

Prabhupāda: And there was no necessity. Still, we shall go. It is very pleasant. (break) One umbrella, if you push, it will open, and if you push down, it will come back. Machine. (break) ...mantra is described in the śāstra just like a potential medicine. If you take it, either you know it or not know it, it will act. And another example is given. Just like fire. If one, the father knows, "This is fire," and throws to the grass, it will be burned. Similarly, if a child—he does not know what it is—if he throws, then that will also burn.

Garden Conversation -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Evicted. At that time he knows the owner. (laughter) When he is kicked out. That is stated also in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not believing in God, to them God will come one day as death, "Now believe Me. Get out!" Finished. All your pride finished. Your pride, your property, your family, your bank balance, your skyscraper building—all taken away. "Finished. Get out." This is God. Now understand God? To believe or not believe, God will come one day. He will take you, take your everything, and "Get out!" That is God. You believe or not believe. It doesn't matter. The same example, the tenant may not believe the landlord, but when the landlord will come with court's order, "Get out," then you have to go out. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Those who are not believer in God, to them I come as death and take away everything, finished." That one has to believe, "Yes, as sure as death." Then God is sure. You may challenge so long you have got little life for a few years, (laughter) but God will come and drive you away from your present pride, prestigious position, "Get out." So unless one is madman, he cannot say, "There is no God." Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then we have to hear both of you. We have to hear both you... There will be regular court, and we shall see.

Devotee (1): Not court, simply...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Devotee (2): That would be fine.

Devotee (1): Okay.

Prabhupāda: Before me. You are saying something. They may say something else.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Challenge that "I shall kick on the face of this rascal, and if he is God, let him punish me. If he is God, let him punish me. I am prepared. So come on in the public. I kick on his face, and let him do whatever he likes. I am prepared. If it is God, let me (him) kill me by his mantra or by his will. Then I will accept him." This is challenge, that "I shall kick on his face in public, and if he is God, let him punish me." And you are so fool that you are accepting this rascal as God? You belong to American nation, advanced. You have become so rascal? Challenge like that. He has come to cheat you, and why you are so befooled that you are being cheated? He is convicted in the court that he is a, what is called, deceiver. Yes. The court judgment is there. He is a deceiver.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Now there's a warrant for his arrest. What he can do? And he is God? God is so cheap and you have accepted him as God? What is this nonsense? But we give you credit, that you are searching after God. That is... So try to understand by education. What is this nonsense, blindly accepting some rascal as God? Everyone knows God is great. Is he great? Then why he is punished by the court? This is the park?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Unless they say, how they will adjust so much money spent? What account they will give? They must bluff, "Yes, it is successful." I saw in the Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death. I told you?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So one barrister, Mr. Allston, he was pacifying, "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released. Don't worry." (laughter) I heard it. I was passing, and Mr. Allston was advising his client. He was morose. "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released." (break) ...condemned person was a medical man, and he killed his servant in the surgical room because the servant was implicated with his wife. This is the story.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes, so go on enjoying. Then don't talk of this "How, what to do, criminal?" Go on, animal. Then why you are anxious to avoid criminality? Hmm? The dogs, hogs, they are not anxious to avoid criminality. Why you are trying to avoid criminality? Remain animal. When the dog goes left to the right, it is not criminality, but why do you prosecute a man when he drives from the left to the right? You remain dog. "Why you charge me criminality? I am dog, sir." Tell him. (laughter) Go to the court and say, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me, I am dog." Why don't you say that? Do you say like that? When you are arrested and charged in the court, you can plead, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me." Why it is not excused? He is punished, why?

Satsvarūpa: The human body means you have responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they say, "Whatever you do, it is all right." In the human body you cannot do like that. If in the ordinary court it is so strict, so what will be in the court of the God?

Sudāmā: Just like they have laws, so similarly, Kṛṣṇa has.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Well, laws come... Wherefrom the laws come? It comes from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādyasya yataḥ. Everything, whatever you see, it has come from God. Otherwise where you get the idea? That is the definition in the Vedānta. Whatever you have experienced, that is coming from God, original idea from God. Janmādyasya yataḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is said, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Whatever you see, you perceive, you experience, the original is from Kṛṣṇa. (pause) So we shall go? (break) ...them directly that "You are animal." And let him go to the court and we shall prove that he is animal. (break) ...them he is in bodily concept of life, charge him that "You are animal. If you think it is defamation, let us go to the court." (break) ...these isms, nationalism, Communism, socialism, this ism, these are all animalism, nothing but animalism. (break) ...big fish within the water, they are also eating the small fish, and these persons are engaged, the same business.

Room Conversation with City Counselor -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

City Counselor: No, but I can talk.

Prabhupāda: You can talk. We are also talking, but they don't care. This is the difficulty.

Jagadīśa: They are making it difficult, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but it seems that they will not be able to check us.

Prabhupāda: Then we shall have to go to court if they do something whimsically. You speak to your best, that's all. That is our request.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Jayatīrtha: ...so many other persons who are not devotees of Kṛṣṇa and who are not friends of Kṛṣṇa, and therefore, what do they know about Bhagavad-gītā? Just like the court can only define what is actual accordance to the law and what isn't, so similarly, there has to be an authorized person.

Prabhupāda: Suppose you have written some letter to somebody, and he cannot understand. So if he consults somebody, that "What he has written?" Then that man must be your confidential person, who can understand your language. Even if I cannot understand what you have written, then I have to consult a person who understands you. But I cannot give my independent interpretation. That is not good. That is foolishness. But that is going on. They are thinking, "I am a big scholar. I can give my own interpretation." That is wrong.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Well, an education... A highly educated man does not require athletics. He requires good brain. Just like high-court judge, he requires a good brain, not a big gigantic body.

Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the significance of the chant which everyone who has been around the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has heard? What is the significance of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Chanting means the holy name of the Lord. The Lord is absolute. His name is not different from Him. So if you chant properly or improperly even, then immediately you be in touch with God. And as you become in touch with God, you become purified. So as you become purified, you know, actually you can see perfectly what is the aim of your life, how the human form of life should be utilized. These thing will be revealed. This is the process of chanting. Try to understand. Chanting the holy name of the Lord means the name of the Lord and the Lord, God, is not different. Just like the sun and the sunshine is not different. Wherever there is sun, or wherever... Sun may be 93,000,000 miles away from us, but by the sunshine we can appreciate sun. Similarly, God may be long, long away from us, but if we chant His holy name, immediately we become in contact with Him. This is the purpose of chanting the holy name of the Lord.

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You are O.K., I am O.K." That's all. (laughter)

Yadubara: Like that Yogi Bhajan. He didn't say anything for a long time. Then when he spoke he started speaking about his court cases.

Prabhupāda: Court cases?

Yadubara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He is very expert, expert in dealing with legal cases. So what they will speak? What they have got? Better not to talk.

Morning Walk -- July 28, 1975, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: ...explain; therefore they bring this theory of chance. But we don't find any such chance in practical life. "There was a fool and he became high-court judge." Is there any? "There was a fool. He became a high-court judge." Is there any evidence like that? "There was ape. It became human, human being." I am simply surprised how this kind of argument is accepted by other fools.

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Very good. (Hindi) He could not solve his own problem. (break) ...court? No.

Tejas: This is Mundi House.

Prabhupāda: Mundi House means?

Tejas: Mahārāja of Mundi. Now it's a television studio.

Prabhupāda: Rajwari garden, they are serious about?

Tejas: He is serious. This morning I will go there because I tried to contact them yesterday and was not able to. We will go first thing this morning, after we get back. (break)

Prabhupāda: You put forth such new, I think. It was not before. But they have supplied so rotten materials.

Morning Walk -- August 26, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him go to the court. We shall see.

Dhanañjaya: Now he's agreed.

Prabhupāda: Then now again break; again make shop. This is going on. There was no expenditure to make the shop, and again closing, there was expenditure. So money is spent like this—"Make it and break it." That is American way.

Dhanañjaya: There is no cement. It is all mud, just muddy.

Prabhupāda: That is explanation.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No, God says that "You become devotee of Me." You do not become. That is your fault. Therefore you must... Just like government does not say that you become criminal. Government says, "You become educated. You become high-court judge, become big officer." Why you become criminal, pickpocket? Does government give any education for becoming pickpocket? Hm? Is there any institution how to steal, how to become pickpocket? (laughter) Then why do you become? Just see. (break) ...eatables you can collect, and I shall show you how to cook in the cooker. One boy. You also see, because nobody will go there.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: No. This is the term used, "lazy," but real term is dhīra. The Sanskrit word is dhīra. And everything... Just like high-court judge, he is dhīra. He is... Before giving judgment, he thinks three days, silently. That is your... That is not laziness. His brain is working how to give nice judgment. That is required. But because we do not understand what is dhīra, we think that "This man is sitting idly and drawing four thousand rupees." Because we know, "Unless one is active like dog, running there, running there, he is not a busy man." And he cannot appreciate the work of the author, the work of the high-court judge. They think they are lazy. Therefore he's using the lazy, but lazy and intelligent. Otherwise he is not lazy; he is dhīra. The word is dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Unless one is dhīra, one cannot understand that there is soul within the body. (break) Kṛṣṇa uses this word, dhīras tatra na muhyati. One has to become dhīra, sober, silent. Then he can understand. Not these busy dogs.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Dhīra means sober. Sober, yes. Just like high-court judge. He judges everything very... (break) ...then he gives his judgment.

Indian man (7): Attention.

Prabhupāda: Full attention. And attention means with good intelligence, (dog barking) not foolishly. (Hindi) That "You are not body. Why you are fighting?" Will they hear? (Hindi) That "My dear dog, you are not this body. Why you are fighting?" He will never understand. Similarly, if a man does not understand, he is no better than the dog.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You cannot find out fault with him. As like in the court, if you find out some fault with the judge, you will be punished immediately—"Contempt of court. You cannot do that." It will be punished, because while he is on the seat of the judge, if somebody finds out fault, then his position will be lower. That is not good. I think the judgment is right. Three persons—the president, prime minister, and the speaker—cannot be, what is called?

Indian man (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Parliament can do that "We have no faith." What is called? "No confidence." "No confidence resolution." The Parliament has not done. "No confidence." So how the court can decide? (break) An open fact that this election... All elections are done illegally. So why this poor prime minister is captured? Everyone does. (Hindi) (break) Military police.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...the talk amongst the high-court judges. So when there was fierce fighting was going on between the Germans and the Allies, so during their relaxed hours, the judges were sitting. So one, the Chief Justice of Calcutta, he asked one Justice Mukherjee. So Justice Mukherjee was very... He was vice-chancellor. So he asked him, "Mr. Mukherjee, now the Germans are coming. What you will do when they come?" He said, "Yes, as soon as they come, we shall: 'Come on sir, come on sir, come on sir.' We shall receive them." "Why?" "Now, you have taught us like that. You British people, you have taught us. (laughter) Our business is to receive. Anyone comes, we shall receive him. That's all."

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why? Why don't you take permission from the court?

Alanath: No. It's not possible.

Akṣayānanda: Have you applied?

Alanath: They have very strict laws. It's also been applied for.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to prove: "This is very important book of knowledge, so allow us a special."

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to take defense from the law. You present in the court the professors' opinion, how they are giving standing order. Why the state should restrain distributing knowledge? Do they want to keep their men in darkness? You have to preach like that. (break)...University is the most important university in Europe. They read our books. They order standing order. So why this loafer state prohibit?

Alanath: ...these explanations, they always argue, "If we allow you to sell your books, then we must allow everybody to sell on the street."

Prabhupāda: No. But you must consider the importance of... (break) Everybody submits application for becoming high-court judge. Will it be granted? There must be discrimination. (break) Thank you very much for your kindness. Yes. I am very pleased. Thank you.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise even a devotee like Bhārata Mahārāja, he had to accept the body of a deer. A little careless. Then nature's law will act. Hm? If you do not become cautious and if you infect the smallpox disease, you have to suffer. Therefore a civilized man takes process, caution, "Oh there is smallpox disease, I shall not go there. Or if I go there, I must take vaccine." This is human civilization, caution. And if you are animal, you do not know. So human life means not animal life. Very reasonable, very cautious, educated, cultured, that is human life. Not animal life. Drink like animal, or eat like animal, have sex life like animal. Freedom, animal has got all freedom. So that freedom is not allowed to the human beings. That is civilization. The same example. The animal has got freedom and you'll see in Indian market, vegetable market, some cow comes and eats, takes so many vegetables and eats, but he's not going to the court. But if you take one small piece of chili without, then you'll go to the court.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If you make tamasic dāna, then you become implicated with his sinful activities. Suppose you want to kill somebody, and you're asking, "Can you give me a nice knife?" "What you will do?" "I shall kill that man." "All right, take it, dānam. I am giving you in charity." So he will be implicated. In the court, if it is known that that man supplied the knife, "Arrest him. Bring him immediately."

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when you are condemned to death by the judgment of the high-court, so who is the doer, the high-court judge, or you? Huh? Is the high-court judge your enemy, that he has condemned you to death? He has given the judgment; you cannot say he is the doer. You are the doer. So ātmā and Paramātmā. You do, and Paramātmā gives judgment. Daiva-netreṇa. By the superior judgment.