Prabhupāda: Actual identity is that you are spirit soul. And this material body is your covering. Just like dress. Just like when you dress, the real body is there. Similarly, we are within this material body. So we are taking more care for the dress and not for the body actually. But when a body is dead we can understand that there is something missing. That missing thing is the soul. In the modern educational field there is no department of knowledge to understand that what is that missing part. There are so many theories, but they are not practical. Therefore we have to understand the soul and its constitution from authoritative scriptures like Bhagavad-gītā. Then we can understand our identity actually. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that persons who are identifying themselves with this material body, they are not actually human beings. They are counted amongst the asses and cows. So that is ignorance or illusion.
Count (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is very nice if you read one chapter Bhāgavatam daily. It is very nice. You make it a point to read one chapter daily. That is very nice.
Devotee: No more?
Prabhupāda: No, if you can do more, that's all right. Just like I ask everybody to chant 16 rounds. But if you can chant 1600 rounds, then who prohibits you? You can do that. But we should make a regulation of our life, that "So many times I chant. One chapter I shall read. I shall go to the temple at this time." In this way we must have routine work. Then we'll get practiced automatically. Yes. And Gosvāmīs, the Six Gosvāmīs, they were following routine work. Even they... Sāṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. They were doing regularly counting. Just like you are counting sixteen rounds. Not only chanting in that counting, but they were offering obeisances also by counting, that "Hundred times I shall offer my obeisances." You see? This is regular routine. Yes.
Paramānanda: They didn't do hard physical work.
Prabhupāda: No, they were writing books. So they were writing. You have to manage. You see? How can I suggest, "You can do this, you can do this"? Everyone has to do. Just like I do my work according to my own routine, you see, similarly, one has to... But if sometimes, by chance, you do not get any time for reading Bhagavad-gītā, that does not harm very much because you are already engaged in Bhagavad-gītā. Any duty here in New Vrindaban... Just like Kṛṣṇa was inducing Arjuna to fight. That fighting was also within the program of this devotional service. Similarly, anything working within this New Vrindaban, that is also counted reading Bhagavad-gītā. So in some day if you don't find, read Bhagavad-gītā, but that chanting must be finished. That is very essential.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. So Jānakī, she can play the mother. She is...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And you can show another scene that His wife, Viṣṇupriyā, she was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and one round finished, she counted it with one grain of rice. One round finished, one grain rice. So as many rounds finished, she'll eat only so much rice. That's all.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That of course depends on the person who is really anxious for guru. Just like when you go to the market to purchase some thing, you test it whether it is genuine or not. Similarly, you have to test who is genuine.
Woman Interviewer: How can you tell if you don't...?
Prabhupāda: That requires little education, a little knowledge. Therefore we are opening so many centers, giving people opportunity to know what is genuine, what is not genuine.
Woman Interviewer: How many followers have you got now throughout the world or can you not count...?
Prabhupāda: Well, for any genuine thing the followers may be very little, and any rubbish thing, the followers may be many.
Prabhupāda: So far George is concerned, now it is more or less Utopian.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because...
Śyāmasundara: You can't count on him at all.
Prabhupāda: ...if he was willing, he would have done long ago, but he is not very serious.
Śyāmasundara: Well, I've never asked him for it, to do that.
Prabhupāda: So what is this asking? When he visited our Los Angeles temple, he appreciated and he said, "Why not a temple like this in London?"
Śyāmasundara: Well he's..., I..., He's been waiting for me to come here and talk to him here about it. I haven't...
Prabhupāda: But it is difficult to meet him.
Revatīnandana: They're almost like japa mālā.
Guest (1): We do it in some, together, in the orthodox church. And we take turns doing two hundred.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Guest (1): And... These are for counting.
Prabhupāda: That is nice. We also do the same thing. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us."
Prabhupāda: Oh, what is the wording?
Guest (1): "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us."
Prabhupāda: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God..."
Revatīnandana: "Have mercy on us."
Guest (1): It's a little prayer.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: They think that they have become liberated, but śāstra says "No, it is not yet liberated." Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Still there is contamination.
Revatīnandana: I see. It was just making my head spin to think of so many fallen souls. If there they also, to some extent they also fall. Here there are so many fallen souls. Then...
Prabhupāda: Ananta. You cannot say how many. Ananta. Anantāya kalpate. Ananta means unlimited number. There is no question of counting.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...count how you got this.
Sudāmā: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa sent these from Los Angeles three years ago.
Cintāmaṇi: They're staying in closet. (?)
Prabhupāda: So who will paint?
Sudāmā: Cintāmaṇi will paint.
Prabhupāda: So take note. So eyes are all right. Eyes are all right. It is all right. Simply you have to, all the hairs to make black up to the...It is all right?
Prabhupāda: Now we have got very many centers, but the duty is very responsible. So as, so far the center is concerned, the local president is (indistinct) man. The GBC can supervise that things are going on. The first management is that each and every member in the temple is chanting sixteen rounds regularly and following the regulations, that's all. Otherwise we have no... That is our spiritual strength. That must be executed. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, such exalted personality, such advanced, still he is numerical counting even up to the point of his death. Therefore he was given the nāmācārya, because so rigid (indistinct). Even at the time of his death, Lord Caitanya requested, "Now you can minimize." "No sir, I cannot minimize." And what is the number? 300,000. These are the examples. (indistinct ) Sometimes... But the regulation is that if one day you cannot finish, you have to finish on the next day. But sixteen rounds is not very large number, the lowest. The lowest in India is twenty-five(?). Here sixteen rounds, twenty-five, not even twenty-five. So the president, local president, must see that the members are chanting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement of the śāstra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra."
Guest (2): :So only those who have independent means, then, would come in the...
Prabhupāda: They can be counted, yes. Because a brāhmaṇa is advised not to accept service at any circumstances. That is the injunction of the śāstra. He can take the profession of a kṣatriya or a vaiśya, but not the śūdra. That is brāhmaṇa.
Guest (2): So whoever cannot stand on his own legs as an independent businessman or landlord or whatever it be, he's a śūdra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. I have not manufactured these things. These are śāstra, that "He's brāhmaṇa,"—the qualification. "He's kṣatriya,"—qualification. "He's vaiśya,"—qualification. "He's śūdra—by qualification." And Nārada Muni says, but we have to judge by the qualification. Yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam, yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet: (SB 7.11.35) "These are the qualities of different caste.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is good. We can hold meetings, distribute prasādam. (pause) They have discovered computer machine...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And put some sand in it. Let it count. Not very much. A handful of sand and put in. The machine will stop. The result will be the machine will be no more working.
Svarūpa Dāmodara:Computer will reject.
Prabhupāda: Eh.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Computer will reject, saying that: "I cannot do it."
Prabhupāda: They reject?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Something which is not possible...
Prabhupāda: Then, then it is imperfect. If he cannot count, reject, then it is imperfect. Hare Rāma Hare Rāma...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: To count?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Count, count. That's all. Analytically. What are the ingredients? Analytical studies. That is called saṅ-khyā, count. Suppose you take this sand. You count. It is called sāṅkhya. So, from the saṅkhyā, the word, it comes sāṅkhya, knowing analytically. This is sāṅkhya philosophy. So you are also sāṅkhya philosopher. Everyone is sāṅkhya philosopher. We are also sāṅkhya philosopher. Because we are counting the material elements, as Kṛṣṇa says: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). We are analyzing: "This is land, this is water, this is air, this is sunshine, fire." Then I am counting with my mind, intelligence, ego. And further, I do not know. Kṛṣṇa says: "There is further." That is the living force. That they do not know. They are thinking: "Life is combination of these matters." But Kṛṣṇa says: "No." Apareyam. This is inferior. The superior energy is living entity. So we are also sāṅkhya philosopher. But we are taking direction from Kṛṣṇa, and they're making their own attempt. That is the difference. They're depending on their own intelligence. We don't depend on my own intelligence. We depend on Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. That is the difference. Then, if Kṛṣṇa is perfect, then my intelligence is perfect. I may be not perfect, but because I take Kṛṣṇa's intelligence, therefore I'm perfect.
Prabhupāda: Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). This is the only solution. (pause) Now śāstra says jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. There are nine hundred thousand forms of aquatics. So what the scientist says? How many there are?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have no number. They cannot count it. When we say, then they'll say: "How do you know?"
Prabhupāda: We have got our process. You do not know. You admit. That is Vedic knowledge. Everything is there. If you want to know, you have to spend so much money to study how many forms are there. But we believe in the Vedas. We get immediately the correct knowledge. Now you cannot challenge it because you do not know. Neither you can know by research work.
Prabhupāda: The people are numberless. Therefore the goal should be numberless? People are numberless. We cannot count. It is not possible. Therefore the goal should be also numberless?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, they say in our universe there are about ten to the eleventh stars. They can count approximately. They say there are about 100 billion stars.
Prabhupāda: Count the sand grains, count the sand grains.
Karandhara: They would make a rough estimate.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Even if you make a fool estimate, then still, you are nothing in the face of the creator. Even if you can count.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That Chaganlal this, I pay him extra eighty-five thousand. That is also black. No more white. So the black money was paid in this way, that the money was counted and it was put in a handbag, and it was locked by him. So the key was with him, and the bag was with me. As soon as court accepted the agreement, then I handed over, "Take this bag." Then again this Ratna Parik, he first of all proposed twenty thousand to sell that house. Then when I went there, he knew that he's settling at any cost, he said, "Now that twenty thousand was cost formerly. Now things have gone very high, I cannot sell." So he knows that we are eager to purchase. Then I said, "Then what do you want to do?" "Now I want thirty thousand." "All right, yes. Take it." I did not argue. In this way I settled up. And our Girirāja's father appreciated that "It is better a bad settlement than to prolong the case." So I took this policy. It is bad settlement, from twenty thousand to thirty thousand. But settled out.
Prabhupāda: I see. Oh, yes, yes. (break) One old lady... You know, in the villages there is fair, or market. So in the morning she saw that so many hundreds of men have assembled. So one lady of that village, she thought that "They have become my guests." So she began to cry and was asking his son, her son, "Oh, how I can accommodate so many people? How can I receive them as guests?" So the son said, "My dear mother, don't be agitated. In the evening you come." So in the evening when she come, there was nobody. There was nobody, because a marketplace. So this botheration is just like the old lady. After seeing so many men, she is agitated. And in the evening there is none. So it requires intelligence, that "They are coming and going. Why I should be bothered about that? Let me do my duty as human being." That is required. (Hindi:) Ek sat me dekhila. (break) ...unlimited number of living entities. Ananta. Ananta means you cannot count. Within your body, within your stool, there are millions of living entities. They are provided, maintained, by your stool, by your urine. So why do you bother? If your stool and urine can provide so many living entities, why you bother yourself? (Hindi) You do your duty as human being. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ sa... Don't become animal. That is required. (Hindi) (break) ...the essence of knowledge. People are diverted in so many ways. Human duty is... (Hindi) (break) That is human duty. Be surrendered to God. That is your duty. Then everything will come automatically. Everything will come. And without knowledge, how you can take care? That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: But just like Kṛṣṇa says, "They are just like moon." Just see. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśi. So śaśi means the moon. Moon is like one of the stars. So if you say the stars are sūrya, then there is contradiction. How the moon and the sun can be equal? But actually, that is not. According to our Vedic astronomy, there is one sun only in one universe, although there are millions of universes, we cannot count. So there are millions of suns. That is another thing. But within the universe there is only one sun, and by the brilliance of sunshine, all these stars and moons are glittering. Just like moon shining, being reflected by the sun, similarly, all the stars they are glittering, being reflected by the sun, not that all of them are different suns. This theory is refuted.
Prabhupāda: Buddha is śaktyāveśa-avatāra. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also, śaktyāveśa-avatāra; Mohammed, śaktyāveśa-avatāra. Śaktyāveśa-avatāra means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf... That is called śaktyāveśa-avatāra. There are different types of avatāras. Guṇāvatāra, manvantarāvatāra, yugāvatāra, līlāvatāra, śaktyāveśāvatāra, like that. They are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. About avatāras. You find out Teachings of Lord Caitanya, avatāras. Innumerable avatāras. Come here. Find out this chapter. Avatāra saṅkhyeyaḥ. It is compared, just like in the river, the waves are flowing. You cannot count, or in the... What is that? Avatāra.
Prof. Regamay: Yes. Not teaching, but cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughing) So sometimes... Just like a child does not want to go to school. So the teacher says, "No, no, you don't require to go to... There is no need. But what do you see in your front?" "That's a cow." "Now, what is this?" "A leg." "Then what is next?" "Second leg." "What is this?" "Third leg." So he is teaching mathematics, but practically, he says, "You don't require go to school. You just count the legs of the cow, that's all." It is like that.
Paramahaṁsa: Yesterday, in your lecture, you mentioned how in this age it's very difficult to remain chaste or free of...
Prabhupāda: Yes, but one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's all right. Teach him Sanskrit and English and let him read our books. Then perfect knowledge. He doesn't require to go to school. And so far mathematics and history concerned, everyone knows. Two plus two equal to four. It doesn't require much education. Even illiterate man who has never gone to school, he can also count. Eh? "How much money you are giving me?" He doesn't want to be cheated. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma... So the fact is God cannot be unknown. If you are actually serious to know God, God can be known. This is no argument, that "God cannot be known."
Woman: Are you against medical help? I mean, you want just to let Kṛṣṇa do His way and not let the doctors help at all? I mean, don't go a doctor, just rely on Kṛṣṇa to help you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help you. It is Kṛṣṇa's help that will be counted, not your help or my help. Therefore, it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Paramahaṁsa: Isn't it, then, if one is happy, that's all that counts? If his happiness is also relative. So if I am a monkey...
Prabhupāda: No. There is absolute happiness. You do not know that. We are meant for that, because we are living beings. But on account of your ass quality you do not like to understand. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti.
Amogha: My parents used to tell me that nothing can be absolutely true, because everything is really finer shades of grey.
Prabhupāda: He has no idea what is absolute truth. He is in darkness. He does not know there is absolute world. This is the relative worlds.
Prabhupāda: So kindly cooperate with us. This is... Try to learn the philosophy, and you will be surprised how nice philosophy it is.
Director: I'm quite sure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we don't count for percentage. Let personally become ideal man. The same example: There is no percentage in comparison to the stars and one moon. What is the percentage? There are millions of stars. It is, what is the percentage, one and million? It is practically zero percentage. But still, because it is moon it is more sufficient than all these small stars. So produce moon.
Prabhupāda: Atom, atom not question of seeing. You can count all the atoms throughout the universe; still, you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. You may be so great scientist that you can count each and every atom within the universe, but still, you shall remain unable to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the śāstra. Now here is sand. You can say, "There are so many sands." And this is only a small beach, but you can say how many sands and atoms are there within the universe. You can become so qualified. But still, you are unqualified to understand Kṛṣṇa. Radhakrishnan, Dr. Radhakrishnan was a good man, brāhmaṇa, but he was victimized by the western culture. He got some money from Oxford University. Therefore he took the westerner—his father mother, that's all. That is his qualification. Whatever the westerners say, they will say, he will say, "Yes, this is science." Not only Dr. Radhakrishnan, all the big men of India, they thought like that.
Reporter (3): How many followers do you have?
Prabhupāda: Well, to find out first-class man is very difficult. Therefore, our followers, you cannot count a large number. We are training them to become first-class man. Still, we have got about ten thousand followers in the western countries.
Reporter (3): In the western countries.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter (3): Where do you train them in the western countries?
Prabhupāda: We have got our headquarter in Los Angeles and we have got many centers all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Charity box daily counted?
Dhanañjaya: Yes. Daily counted.
Prabhupāda: So how much it is?
Dhanañjaya: Pūrṇa-candra, how much was collected?
Pūrṇa-candra: 120 rupees.
Prabhupāda: So you write separately.
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit?
Harikeśa: But that's so difficult to do, you know. There are so many things get in the way.
Prabhupāda: So you can... Difficult to do, you can count ever... It is very difficult to count this sand. Can you count? It is very difficult. But you can waste your time in counting. (laughter) You are rascal; you can go on: "I shall count how many." But it is not possible. So that is rascaldom. Which is not possible, that we'll get. Now it is... Everyone knows there are some particles. Now you go on counting. Don't eat. Don't sleep. Go on counting. And śāstra says, ""Even if you are able to count this, you'll not be able to know God, even if you are able." This is not possible to count, but even if you become so expert that you can count one day, still it will be acintya tattva. That is... There is a verse that even one day you become the rolled sky... The sky is so big. You can roll it just like you roll up your bedding. And even if you can, all the atoms constituted, still you'll not be possible to know, understand God.
Prabhupāda: What is that, here?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You said there's a kendra everywhere, kalā.
Prabhupāda: Kalā means this. (laughter) Ei kalā. (break) Prabhakara was working here. He was employed here. He was staying on that room, so I also stayed with him two days. (break) ...count of his unsteadiness he has lost so many good jobs. I do not know...
Prabhupāda: That is atheism or demonism. (break)
Harikeśa: Chinmayananda, when he lectures, he only lectures on the verses that are important. He says all the other ones, they're not really important. He picks out the ones that count.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you cut his head and say that "It is not important. You are talking nonsense. Cut your head."
Indian man: He don't give any commentary on verses, even important commentary, he speak all nonsense.
Prabhupāda: No, therefore you say, "This head is not required. You are talking nonsense," and cut his head.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Foreign devotees, they are joining this movement not because it is a Hindu culture. They take it as a real spiritual culture. Otherwise why, for the last hundred, two hundred years, the Hindu sannyāsīs, yogis, were going there? Who did accept it? Did anybody? The Rāmakrishna Mission, Hindu monk, within the eighty-five years, how many Hindus they have made? You can count maybe a dozen only.
Prabhupāda: There are many demigods. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Everything is ananta. Just like here you cannot count how many. Here, this much space, if I ask you, "Count how many grasses are there," you cannot do it. Everywhere. You count in this field how many plants are there. You cannot do it. So, similarly other planet, other, other...There are unlimited fields. You cannot count. Why you try to count it, "How many universes? How many devotees?" That is foolishness. It is not possible. Wherever you start, everything is unlimited. Can you count how many atoms are there, atomic? That is your limitation. Therefore I say "frog philosophy." The limited wants to study the unlimited. That is frog philosophy. The frog is thinking, "Eh? Three feet. All right, four feet. All right, five feet." He cannot think unlimited because he is frog. So don't imitate the frog. Take it as it is stated in the śāstra. Then it is all right.
Prabhupāda: Then what remains? The teeth is dangerous. Yes, how condemned life. And we had to pass through all these. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine lakhs of forms in the water. Crocodile is one of these. Just see how accurate is Vedic information. Never says "ten lakhs" or "eight lakhs." Nine lakhs. Now, if you don't believe, count. Go ahead. Count. How this knowledge is there? Nobody can go within the water to count how many forms are there, but how the Vedas gives the knowledge perfectly? Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. This is Vedic knowledge. Where you cannot reach and you refer to Vedas, you'll get the knowledge. That is Vedas, perfect knowledge. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given the example: stool is impure, rejectable. Everyone knows. Veda says, "No, cow dung is pure." And you examine it; you'll find it is pure. That is Vedic knowledge. When you get information from the Vedas, it is perfectly right. So it is easier to take knowledge from the Vedas. Then you'll become perfect in knowledge. There is no question of researching. That is not possible. What you'll research? How many animals are there, aquatics are there, in the water? It is beyond your experience. Is there any scientist who can go within the water and count how many aquatic forms are there? Nothing you can do. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣā viṁśati.(?)What information we have got? Even you cannot speak perfectly well about this universe. We are not able even to speak perfectly what is there in the moon planet. They are going, trying to go, and coming back. And still, they are claiming perfection as perfect as God. Just see how lunatic they are.
Prabhupāda: No. On the way to Calcutta, talking will not be very serious because we'll be busy to go fast.
Jayapatākā: We'd be in a hurry.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Yes. (break) So what is the use of such men? Why he's keeping these men? They cannot do anything. He gets some pension. Who spends that money? But they are not doing anything. So what is the meaning of this count?
Jayapatākā: He admits that many times he has told some of them to leave their family life and take up some preaching, but they don't do it.
Prabhupāda: How they'll do it? They do not know how to preach, neither they are trained up. That means it is his disqualification. He could not train them how to preach. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was training Haridāsa Ṭhākura, Nityānanda, "Go there. Preach there. Do that." My Guru Mahārāja was doing that. But he has no power. He cannot do it. He simply talks that he is a very confidential devotee. That's all. He cannot preach. Otherwise Prabhupāda developed this Māyāpura, and he could not do anything. That means he has no power.
Prabhupāda: (laughter) The story is that one poor man was informed by his friend that "Money draws money." That's a fact. If you have got money, you can draw money. So he went to the bank, and the cashier was counting huge amount of money, and he threw his coin on the cash..., (laughs) and he was waiting: "When the whole money will come to me?" Then the cashier saw this man is standing: "What is the...? Why you are standing?" "Sir, I heard that money draws money, so I had one coin. I have dropped with your money. I am waiting when it will come to me." So he said, "No, no. The fact is that, money draws.... Now my money has drawn your money."
Prabhupāda: One thousand. No, don't tear. It is written there, "One thousand."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's fifties and twenties. There's one fifty note, one hundred notes, twenty notes...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Usually, when they write like this, they're the same denomination.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you can count, yes.
Prabhupāda: They don't use aluminium much. If they have got excess money, they invest in metal-gold, silver, copper, bell metal.... Immediate loan—you can mortgage the metal pots, the metal ornaments, you get money immediately. (break) ...in a year, that is a metal purchasing ceremony. Every family will purchase, according to his means, some metal pots once in a year. Dhantraivesi(?) (indistinct) means desire some funds. So if there's some extra money—not big, big men; middle class storeman—they invest in metal purchase. If there is a good business day, (unclear) all the utensils (unclear). You know Diwali, Diwali?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just one day before Diwali.
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Huge quantity of metals. Everyone will count (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: He was smārta.
Rāmeśvara: Paṇḍita, you used to call him paṇḍita.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes Prabhupāda would tell him he was a smārta.
Rāmeśvara: He's always carrying an armful of books.
Prabhupāda: Smārta is also counted amongst the sahajiyās.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was really.... That's another problem, Prabhupāda. All of these boys that take part in this Sanskrit-Bengali translation department, they all become like this, because they read these other books. As soon as they learn Bengali and Sanskrit, they start reading so many books.
Prabhupāda: Āula bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jāta-gosāñi. They are all counted in one group.
Prabhupāda: But why do they say the moon planet first?
Ambarīṣa: Because their senses are imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara also, he also not replied satisfactorily. (break) ...do not count talking about sun, moon excursion. Why they are now stop, not talking anything?
Devotee (1): All they could get was some dust.
Prabhupāda: That is already known. Further?
Makhanlāl: They want to go to Mars and Saturn now.
Prabhupāda: Why? Moon finished? Simply by taking dust? And still the government is going to pay for Mars and Venus?
Prabhupāda: You also like? So finance this project. (laughter) Vedic planetarium.
Ambarīṣa: Where will this be?
Prabhupāda: Māyāpura. My idea is to attract people of the whole world to Māyāpura. So we are just trying to acquire three hundred fifty acres of land from the government. It is going on under consideration. Some men are against and some are in favor. But those who are against, they have counted ninety?
Hari-śauri: Ninety against, two thousand for.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Bank will give you loan, they are eager to give you loan, and you haven't got to pay anything in gold and silver. One check, that's all. And with that check you can purchase lots of commodities and hoard it, and price will be increased. If I have to pay gold for (indistinct), then I have limited source. The price will not increase. This is the only way. Introduce gold only, gold and silver. In the British period in our childhood there was practically no notes. Silver. If I have to take payment from you, one thousand rupees, you will give me so much silver. For counting, counting, I have to see whether it is.... There were some imitation, counterfeit. So each coin you have to see, they were saying like that, that, "For thousand rupees I have to occupy so much space."
Prabhupāda: Still they have made some impression, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on—in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on. That is your... (indistinct) And this movement is meant for these fourth-class, fifth-class, tenth-class men. Not this movement is fourth class, fifth class. They are so fallen that they cannot be counted even third class, fourth class-tenth-class of men. Deliver them. Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's incarnation is for delivering these classes of men. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never meant to start this movement for high-class brāhmaṇas, sages, saintly persons—no. This class of men. For the all fallen. Don't be disappointed, go on, go on. Stick to the principles. When there was no response, I did not know where to live, where to eat. Sometimes at Dr. Mishra's, sometimes with some friend somewhere. Where to live. And I was going to inquire the shipping company when the next ship returning to India. Still I was renewing my visa: "Let us hope. Let us hope." In this way, we started Second Avenue in month of July, I think?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So, for example, if one is learning how to count or how to read...
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has to learn it from the teacher. Two plus two equal to four. One, two, three, four, like that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But actually one can understand the Absolute Truth without such knowledge.
Prabhupāda: There is no such man. It is a nonsense, another non...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Without being able to count?
Prabhupāda: Nobody can count unless he learns it from the teacher.
Prabhupāda: Dhana-māna. Because they have got money, whatever they think, that's all right. And their gurus also will say, "Yes, it is all right." If the guru says that "It is not all right," then nobody will come to him. He has to say "It is all right," because he's also after money and woman. That's all. He does not come here to teach something. This is going on. Therefore they come in so many numbers. They have now taken a good field. And in America you go, you say any nonsense, and they'll accept. And pay money for that. From the very beginning it is going on. Now, because it is going on like that, we are also counted amongst them. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." This is the difficulty. They are also taking this movement, "Oh, these boys are chanting and dancing. This is also another sentiment, another edition of hippie movement." There is a, I think, Gresham's theory: "Bad money drives away good money." You know this? This is a economic theory. "Bad money drives away good money." Because nowadays bad money, that paper money, is going on, that gold coins no more in existence. Formerly we have seen gold coins in our childhood. You have not seen any. We have seen.
Prabhupāda: You can make, by arrangement, artificial, cross-breeding.
Hari-śauri: But that cannot be counted as one of the 8,400,000 forms. I was thinking last night when we were coming down this road that it's very nice and smooth, but then I thought you were saying the other morning that in the heavenly planets they are made from coral and so many different things. Here we're using tarmac.
Prabhupāda: The more you go higher planetary system, the standard of living is many, many thousand times better than this. Many, many thousand times.
Prabhupāda: No, moon star is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Moon is one of the stars, but brilliant star.
Yadubara: How many brilliant stars are there in this Universe?
Prabhupāda: Many. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). Aśeṣa. We cannot count.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The description is also that there is only one star in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The description is that there is only one star in this universe. One star.
Prabhupāda: One star?
Prabhupāda: Anyone who has taken birth in India as a human being—not as dogs manuṣya, manuṣya means human—his duty is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach to the other people for welfare activities. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). We should mark this point, manuṣya-janma. He's not requesting the cats and dogs. So in other words, that those who are not taking, Indians... Bhagavad-gītā is known to everyone, every Indian knows. But if he does not preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is not to be counted as human being. Because He says manuṣya-janma haila yāra. If we claim to be human being, born in India, it is our duty to understand the value of life from Bhagavad-gītā and preach this cult to others to do real welfare activities. This is the duty of every Indian. Why Indians are lacking in their duty? They do not understand Kṛṣṇa and they do not understand how to do good to others. Now whatever is done is done. It is time, now that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here, the temple is here, you come, you understand the whole philosophy and distribute. That is your duty. In New York City we can open many temples, provided you come.
Prabhupāda: To avoid trouble. This is psychology. They want to avoid trouble. But our process is, if you want to avoid trouble, then don't marry, remain brahmacārī. If you cannot, then, all right, have legal wife, get children and raise them very nicely, make them Vaiṣṇavas, take the responsibility. So we are organizing this society, we welcome. Some way or other we shall arrange for shelter. But to take care of the children, to educate them, that will depend on their parents. Now our Pradyumna was complaining that in the Gurukula, his child was not educated to count one, two, three, four. So I have told him that "You educate your child. Let the mother educate in English, and you educate him in Sanskrit." Who can take care? So similarly every father, mother should take care that in future they may not be a batch of unwanted children. We can welcome hundreds and thousands of children. There is no question of economic problem. We know that. But the father, mother must take care at least. Properly trained up, they should be always engaged. That is brahmacārī gurukula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). From the very beginning they should be trained up. From the body, they should be trained up how to take bath, how to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or some Vedic mantra, go to the temple, offer obeisances, prayer, then take their lunch... In this way, they should be always engaged.
Indian man (2): Kṛṣṇa is the only God. That's why there is no other alternative. Kṛṣṇa is the God, there is no alternative.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is... That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). All incarnation of God is described, and the summary is given at the end that all these names, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, and so many, hundreds and thousands, so all of them are Kṛṣṇa's plenary portion or portion of the plenary portion. Ete ca aṁśa-kalāḥ. And this Kṛṣṇa, tu bhagavān, He is the original. Ete ca aṁśa-kalāḥ. And this Kṛṣṇa, tu bhagavān, He is the original. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). It is clearly stated. And Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). There are many incarnation of God. So many incarnations that you cannot count even. Just like it is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that like you cannot count the waves of the river, similarly you cannot count how many incarnations are there. But Bhāgavata gives you the information that all these incarnations, innumerable incarnations, they are portions or part of the portions. But kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. And Kṛṣṇa also confirms that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. What is the difficulty? But unfortunately you have got fertile brain. You manufacture things. And that is your misfortune. It is better to remain a fool before the ācārya. Then he'll make progress.
Prabhupāda: Before Deity one can do. Before Deity one can show devotional activities, but not otherwise. Otherwise it will be sense enjoyment.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana once you told me not to have the rāsa-līlā by these professionals also.
Prabhupāda: No, before Deity everything.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They can do it.
Prabhupāda: (counting floors) One, two, three, four, five, six? No?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's five, including the ground floor it comes to six.
Harikeśa: One, two, three, four, five, six. From the ground floor it's twice as high.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (all chant japa) (break)
Prabhupāda: We are, some space is due to us on account of giving up the road?
Saurabha: That is already calculated. That is given to us already.
Prabhupāda: Given?
Prabhupāda: There is no harm, but they should understand what is Rādhā-kuṇḍa and how to deal with Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī showed how to live in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau. He was circumambulating Rādhā-kuṇḍa, falling down, making a mark. That is Rādhā-kuṇḍa vāsī. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Not only counted holy names, but offering obeisances so many hundred times in... That is Rādhā-kuṇḍa. He, so much vairāgya he showed. He can take bath in the Rādhā-kuṇḍa. First of all, do this like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca yau **.
Harikeśa: Can I tell you about the bank? Punjab National Bank is down the street, and we have our temple account there.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Punjab National Bank is there.
Harikeśa: So how much do you want to deposit?
Prabhupāda: That I have to count.
Harikeśa: So we can do it any time. And before you arrange this Kumbhamela, it's very cold there.
Prabhupāda: Don't talk now.
Commissioner: What could we do, the devotees staying(?) here in Andhra Pradesh state?
Prabhupāda: You become guided by Bhagavad-gītā.
Commissioner: (Hindi) If you think that everything could run then ahobalam(?) is there. They are now (indistinct). But if you are going. Tomorrow they have to (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: You have counted? Not yet. Counting? No.
Hari-śauri: I've got it listed. 182. 1-8-2. All their temples should be reorganized on the... People should come there for being educated. Temple means it is an educational center.
Commissioner: Educational center.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Brāhmaṇas means they are teachers. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. So every temple should be educational center, and the brāhmaṇas should be engaged. They should be properly educated and they should teach others also. In this way, temple means education in spiritual life. And actually spiritual life is life. This material life, the bodily conception of life, is dead life. Aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam.
Prabhupāda: Yes, many thousands and thousands of important Indians, very rich men there are. In London there are very rich Indians. They can form immediately a solid association. They should present that this Kṛṣṇa is our God. In every Indian home we observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. Even though one does not follow Kṛṣṇa cult, still if he is Hindu he follows the Janmāṣṭamī. Inevitably, everywhere. So this Kṛṣṇa cult is genuine, Vedic, based on Bhagavad-gītā which was spoken long, long years ago before any religion, any religious literature in the world. The Buddha literature or the Christian literature and Jewish literature, they cannot be counted more than two thousand years. A little more than that. But this Kṛṣṇa cult is coming, it is coming from, I have already explained in the introduction, it is coming from four hundred millions of years ago. But even from historically, it is five thousand years. Beyond all religious literature in the world. We have to present this case in the court. And let it be discussed thorough (indistinct), and see our books, compare any religious books with our these books. Present all the opinions of big, big professors how traditional Indian culture is there. You have to fight, organize.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not taking vaiśyas by birth.
Jagadīśa: Accounts is just a skill. Anyone can learn to do account.
Indian man: No, vaiśya is special work.
Jagadīśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, accounts are meant for kāyasthas, śūdras. (Indian man laughs) Vaiśyas are meant for producing grain and protecting cows. Yes. According... One Englishman used to say, "This clerical job means educated laborer, educated śūdra." (laughs) Śūdra... Actually the kāyasthas are counted amongst the śūdras. You know that?
Bhagatji: In Bengal kāyasthas is the...
Prabhupāda: No, no, Bengal. Mean in U.P.
Prabhupāda: So I saw that one, that Mr. Maiman (?), he has got so many boxes all down his room. So I asked, "What are these?" "No, these are different cinema house collection. The ticket, half of the ticket, is put into this box before entering. So I count this slip. Then I can understand what is the income. That's all. Let them do whatever that." So I am simply asking, "How many books they are selling?" (laughter) If the sale is going on, "All right, that's all right. Let them do whatever they like." The books are printed and distributed? That is all right. Then other things, you do whatever you like. Never ask.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I had one... When I was doing medical business I had one very nice customer. He was my patron also, one Muhammadan doctor, Sriraja Uttina.(?) He was very kind to me. He was just like a father to me. So his system was that in his pharmacy, patent medicine, drugs, medicine, surgical instruments, like that different headings. So suppose, at the sales time, sells some patent medicine. So he has got a box. So he puts the price in the patent medicine. And if he sells some surgical, he puts the price in the surgical pot. In this way, when they want to purchase again, so he would consult his pot, whether there is money. Then he'll allow to purchase. Otherwise not. So he told me, "This is my account. This is my account. When they want to purchase, they consign us something. I shall allow them to purchase so much as I have got in the box." This is... I have seen that gentleman. And in Calcutta there was... In our young time there was a cinema, Mr. Maddar, J.F. Maddar. He's a Parsee. So for some..., business, he was tenant of mine. One of my tenants. So in his room there were boxes. So I asked Mr. Maddar what is this box at home. And "This is the counter containing counter part of ticket in my cinema house. So these are sent to me. I count the counter part. Then I can calculate, 'This is the calculation.' I don't keep an account. Now let them do whatever they like. I understand that so many counter parts, so much money."
Prabhupāda: Sakhībekhī. There are so many apasampradāyas, thirteen at least in the counting by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: āula, bāula kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībekhī. This sakhībekhī. Smārta, jāta-gosāñi, ativāḍī, cūḍādhārī, gaurāṅga-nāgarī. These thirteen, fourteen apasampradāyas. They are passing as Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya. But they're the worst, rejected. The sakhībekhī, dressing like.... To cheat Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is after the gopīs, so they have dressed like gopī, and Kṛṣṇa does not know that he's a rascal man. (laughter) Just see. This is their intelligence, to.... "I have become a sakhī. Kṛṣṇa will embrace me and kiss me." So Kṛṣṇa is so fool. (laughs) These rascals are doing that. Sakhībhekhī. There was a Lalitā-sakhi in Navadvīpa. All women surrounding him.
Prabhupāda: No difference. Rāma is Bhagavān. Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. Bhagavān has got many incarnations: Nṛsiṁhadeva, Varāhadeva, Rāma, Rāma, Paraśurāma, Balarāma, Dāśarathi Rāma. So whomever you like, you can worship. (pause)
Guest (5): Should you count every day how much you do japa?
Satsvarūpa: Should you count every day how much japa you do?
Prabhupāda: That is... He's doing at least sixteen times.
Guest (4): No, suppose if we don't count?
Prabhupāda: No, the mālā is counting.
Prabhupāda: With determination. Otherwise, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). Satatam means twenty-four hours. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). But that we cannot do. Therefore to keep dṛḍha-vrata, we have fixed up a certain quantity. Chant that. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau. About the Gosvāmīs-saṅkhyā-pūrvaka: "So many times." Not only chanting, also offering obeisances. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Nati means praṇati. "I shall offer obeisances hundred times." Gosvāmīs, they used to do that. Still in Rādhā-kuṇḍa, Vṛndāvana, you'll see many devotees. They offer, counting, flat, so many times. So we have to take some labor. It is not so easy thing that you realize (chuckling) God so easily. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau. The valuable time of human life should be utilized only for cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect. No other business. Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is sarva-dharmān. But if you cannot do that, all right, make
Prabhupāda: Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? The sunshine, this is very atomic parts of the sun brightness. They are individual, but they are combined. We see one shining. So similarly, God is compared with the sun, and we are atomic particles of God, the same thing in a very small... Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). You take the tip of the hair and divide it into ten thousand parts, and that one part is the formation of the jīva.
- keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya
- śatadhā kalpitasya ca
- jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ
- sa cānantyāya kalpate
- (CC Madhya 19.140)
You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas, not all of them... Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). This is chance.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So it is there in the dictionary, it is in the Vedas, and practically proved. In the Vedas confirmed, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The Supreme Being is the chief living being. There are so many living beings, but He is the original living being. He is original, eternal substance, and the living beings, the are also eternal, same quality, but He is the Supreme. How He is Supreme? Because He maintains these eternal living beings, and the other living beings, they are maintained by Him. Just like in a family the father is the chief man and he maintains the family, similarly God is the Supreme Being. He maintains all other living beings. Anantyāya. There is no limit. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140). The living beings are... They cannot be counted. At night we see. A small insect, millions of, come. Millions. Similarly everywhere you'll go, you'll find full of living..., jana-kīrṇa, different grades. They're all maintained by God. Therefore He's called chief living being. Quality, the same. He's living being; we are living being. Whatever propensities He has got, we have got. But we are not independent. We are dependent on Him. This position has to be clearly understood. Then we have to surrender to Him to fulfill our desires, and that is bhakti-mārga. Is that clear? Same thing write. There is no other way.
| Page Title: | Count (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, Serene |
| Created: | 26 of Sep, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=63, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 63 |