Correct (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Mukunda: This is your biography, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen it, encyclopedia.

Mike Robinson: Could we just talk for a minute or two so that we could get all this set up? If you'd like, just to tell me. You're going to India tomorrow, is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am leaving tomorrow.

Mike Robinson: And when did you come into England?

Hari-śauri: He came seven days ago.

Mike Robinson: Oh, I see. Your Grace, could I ask you, first, how you pronounce your name.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Swami

Mike Robinson: Gee, it's very, very difficult isn't it. Now I understand you're the founder of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Can you tell me how it came to be founded?

Prabhupāda: Give him the name.

Prabhupāda: I don't think there is any other chanting. This is the only chanting. Where is other chanting? You can manufacture so many, but this is the only, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Mike Robinson: I see. Let's see, what else? You founded this movement I think it was ten years ago, that's correct. Why was it that you left till you were so late in life before you founded it?

Prabhupāda: I must be prepared, I must be bona fide to preach.

Mike Robinson: And how do you become qualified? How did you become qualified?

Prabhupāda: That is a spiritual process.

Mike Robinson: And so you presumably had your teachers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just like they, most religions, they say, "We believe." So what is this believe? You may believe something which is not naturally correct. Just like some of the Christian people, they say "We believe there is no soul of the animal." That is not correct. You have believed because you want to eat the animal. You have discovered philosophy, but that's not the fact.

Mike Robinson: How do you know the animal has a soul?

Prabhupāda: You can know also. What is the difference? How do you distinguish that the animal has no soul and the man has soul? How do you distinguish? How do you say the man has soul and the animal has no soul? How do you distinguish?

Mike Robinson: I believe this Christian religion do it because their scriptures say...

Prabhupāda: Again you believe, don't believe, don't believe. When you say that the animal has no soul, but you believe or you know that man has soul. So what is the distinction between the man and the animal you find so that you say that the animal has no soul? What is your scientific conclusion? How do you say that animal has no soul?

Prabhupāda: Everyone—why I, you?—everyone. So long one is in ignorance, there are different feelings. When one is in knowledge, that is permanently. Suppose a man was in ignorance, he was committing a theft and he suffered. And now when he has come to knowledge, that "This business is not good," he does not any more steal and does not suffer. That's all.

Mike Robinson: But there must be different stages that you go through, is that not correct?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, different stages.

Mike Robinson: Can you tell me from your own experience some of these different stages you've been through.

Prabhupāda: Yes, first stage is that you are inquisitively trying to understand. This is the first stage. This is called śraddha, that you have got some faith, "What is this movement? Let me study." This is the beginning. Then, if you are serious, then those who are cultivating this knowledge, you mix with them, try to understand how they are feeling. Then you'll feel, "Why not become one of them?" Then when you become one of them, then all your misgivings go away. And then you become more faithful and you, then you get a taste. Why these boys are not going to see the cinema? They can go-other boys are going. They never ask me. Neither they would like to see even. They hate. Their taste is different.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: They accuse me, "kidnapper of children." But what is my kidnapping method? The young men, they understand philosophy. What I can do, kidnap them? I have no money, I have no strength.

Mike Robinson: But it exists purely as a charity, isn't that correct?

Hari-śauri: Yes, purely nonprofit.

Mike Robinson: Which must make it difficult sometimes, doesn't it?

Harikeśa: No, it's done out of love. So it is not at all difficult.

Mike Robinson: I see.

Jayatīrtha: No one requires any payment. The only payment is the fulfillment that they are experiencing.

Mike Robinson: But how about the electricity board and people like that? I mean, where do you get the money?

Jayatīrtha: Kṛṣṇa gives us the money.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have no scarcity of money. We are selling our books daily, sixty thousand dollars' worth. So we have got sufficient income to maintain the whole institute.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection.

Yogeśvara: Professor Chenique is offering to re-read our publications. To read them and when he sees something he thinks can be corrected, he will make some indication.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection. It is welcome.

Yogeśvara: (devotee enters) This is Hayeśvara. Hayeśvara dāsa, in charge of the Dutch publications, Dutch translator. He has done the Bhagavad-gītā, this edition, in Dutch.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Thank you very much.

Bhūgarbha: This is the Dutch translation. Professor Chenique made the comment...

Prabhupāda: The idea is, suppose I am in France. I do not know French language, but there is fire in my room, and I have to call my neighbors. So somehow or other I call and take their help. (laughter)

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Dharma is for the envious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so-called dharmas. Just like we have created so many dharma, Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma. They are so-called. They are not dharmas. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means what is given to you by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, if you manufacture some ritualistic ceremonies, some formulas, some dogmas, that is cheating. That is not religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is first-class religion. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Wherefrom you learn how to love God. If you learn, "I believe this," "I believe that," "This is our ritualistic ceremony," these are all cheating. As people are cheating one another in different ways, this is another cheating. That's all. They will say, "We believe in this way," "We believe in that way." So what is that, you believe in that way? What is the fact? If you believe something wrong, is that to be taken as religion? We say tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Other religious sect, they say this is Hindu belief. It is not question of Hindu belief. It is the fact. Does it mean that a Muhammadan or Christian child does not become a boy? When Kṛṣṇa says dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young. This is science. And why do you say it is Hindu belief? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? No, it is fact, it is science. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Similarly, you have to change this body, another body. The example is given. Why do you think that because it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā it is Hindu belief? They say like that: "This is Hindu belief." What do you think? Is that Hindu belief?

Dayānanda: No, it's just like you said, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's given by the Supreme Lord.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Nava-yauvana: But his conclusion was not correct. He said therefore these things are owned by the government which represents the people. He didn't understand.

Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. This is accepted. And God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree, this is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: He's giving intelligence. But if you don't accept, what can be done? He has come Himself, and He's giving intelligence. You take it and be happy. But if you don't take it, what God can do?

Hari-śauri: Then your argument that I have no independence, that's not correct.

Prabhupāda: No. You have got independence, little independence.

Atreya Ṛṣi: You have freedom to choose intelligence or be a rascal.

Prabhupāda: You have got independence to misuse your independence. That independence you have got. You have been given intelligence. Now you have got, because you have got intelligence, little independence, you can misuse that. Just like you are all my secretaries. So I give you some independence. You can misuse it. So that misuse is wrong. Then you'll become unhappy. Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Says. He doesn't force you—you must do it. You do it. That means independence. Now it is your choice. You have got independence of misusing it. So independence is a quality inherent in living beings, because he's part and parcel of God. The quality of the father is inherited by the son, even physically. Similarly, you have..., God is fully independent, you have got little touch of independence. Now that independence is properly utilized when you carry out the order of God. That is proper.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That's the business of the representative.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because God is equal to everyone. He sees that these rascal asuras are misguided, so He sends His representative, He comes Himself, there is śāstras, guidance, and everything. The whole propaganda is how these rascal asuras can be turned into devatā. This is equality in the eyes of God. Very simple thing. Just like government puts a person into prison house. The idea is to correct him. Not that government is enemy of a class of men, they are put into the prison house. Government is equal. But there is department of punishing this... (aside:) (indistinct) Government is equal to everyone, but there is this department of reformation which is called jail department. He's punished so that he may come to his senses that "I have done wrong." But unfortunately there are stubborn criminals, they are not corrected. They go and again come, go and again come. One term finished, another term. One term finished... That is transmigration.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Shahrezad: What do you think about the human being's science?

Prabhupāda: Yes, science is correct, as far as it is practical. Science means practical. And, so far I know, those who are students of science, they have to appear for practical examination, is it not? Simply theoretical knowledge is not science. So much percentage of oxygen, so much percentage of hydrogen, mix together, becomes water. That you have to demonstrate in the laboratory, create water by mixing of oxygen, like that. That is science. But if you simply theorize, and when I say that you now practically prove, you say "Wait millions of years," that is nonsense; that is not science. That is nonsense. The observation and experiment. Simply observing is not science. And observing, this chemical, this chemical is being combined, then it can be... First of all, observation. But when you put into, what is called, experiment, and practically show, then it is... They say that life is generated by combination of chemicals. So now show me by experiment, then it is science. Otherwise it is nonsense.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: A devotee, because a nondevotee has become a devotee, he is practicing how to simply accept Kṛṣṇa's orders. But by his previous habit he's still engaged in "do it" and "don't do it." That is his previous habit. Just like this fan is running. You take out the switch, the current is stopped, but it's still running, at least three, four rounds. So similarly, if you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your, that current of "do it" or "do not," is stopped. Because you have agreed to do only what Kṛṣṇa says. If you have actually decided like that, then you are free. There is no more current of "do it" or "not do it." But because you were habituated in your past life to this "do it" or "not do it," sometimes it is found. But that is... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,

api cet sudurācāro

bhajate mām ananya-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

(BG 9.30)

He has got little practice of these nonsense things. But if he sticks to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this will be stopped very soon. That is the only remedy. So a devotee means he has taken vow before the spiritual master, before the fire, before... If he sticks to his principle, then he's free. Even though some bad habits found due to his past behavior. That will be stopped. But he must stick. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. That must stick. Kṛṣṇa consciousness must continue. Everything will be corrected.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (4): So is it correct from what that any culture...

Prabhupāda: It is correct because Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is infallible. We are not manufacturing anything, so it is correct because Kṛṣṇa says. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), He is the supreme authority. But we have no faith in Kṛṣṇa, therefore we manufacture something other than Kṛṣṇa. That is our misfortune.

Interviewer (4): You mean to say that any system that doesn't subscribe to this movement has no future at all?

Prabhupāda: No.

Interviewer (4): But that is (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we say practically. What is the use of "ism," manufactured by imperfect senses. We have got defects. Our..., we commit mistake. Who is the person who does not commit mistake? None. We accept this body, which I am not, this is called pramada. Pramada vipralipsa,(?) without any perfect knowledge you want to teach. That is cheating. Vipralipsa. And karnapada(?), our senses are imperfect. So how you can give perfect knowledge with all this imperfection? Unless you become perfect, you cannot give perfect knowledge. So any knowledge given by any imperfect person, we reject immediately, useless waste of time. And actually that is the fact. If you are blind, you cannot see. You say, "Here is the elephant, a big stambha, pillar," by seeing his leg, by touching his leg. But elephant is just like a pillar? That is our speculation. Andha-kūpa, what is called? Kūpa-maṇḍūka. A frog in the well is trying to study Atlantic Ocean.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest: Correct. Cent percent correct.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of decorating the dead body?

Guest: Correct. Yes. We must decorate real...

Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) South India, Indian culture is still there. Other parts of India, they are not now Indian.

Guest: Correct. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: We have got buses. They have got buses, two, three. Any number of. It is very simple method. That we combine together, Indian and foreigners. Go in buses. (Bengali) Now it should be organized. This is simply (Bengali).

Guest: You must also come in Bangalore once. Then it will be all...

Prabhupāda: Immediately think over that. These Europeans, Americans are there. Now get up the association of another, at least one dozen, and let us go together, grāma to grāma,...

Yaśodānandana: We could go from Madras...

Prabhupāda: Anywhere.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You start from anywhere and go anywhere and sit down and chant. In India, Bhārata-bhūmi (Hindi). Thousands will come. That is India. You won't have to advertise that there is hari-kīrtana, come. No. As soon as you begin, immediately thousands. As soon as there will be sugar grain, immediately the ants will come. It is like that. This is a fact.

Guest: Correct, correct. Hundred per cent correct.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Just get one dozen good, I mean, good or bad. It doesn't matter, who is ready to work for this purpose. And our men are ready. Our buses are ready. So let us go. There is no question of selecting place. Anywhere. Anywhere.

Guest: Any place, anywhere, all the places.

Prabhupāda: You go and find out some good place for camping and begin kīrtana. Get down from the bus and begin kīrtana. Then all friends will come immediately. They will offer shelter, they will offer food. Everything. One thing is, their difficulty is language. Indians are there, they can speak on the local language.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayapatākā: He doesn't write himself. He writes in old fashion. But he corrects for double-checking philosophy. Editing. And this Kiśora, he was a M.A. and he previously used to write. He was an honor student at Calcutta University, and he used to freelance write in Bengali. So his style is very nice.

Prabhupāda: Why not engage him in simply...

Jayapatākā: He is translating now our...

Gargamuni: That's all he does.

Jayapatākā: That and he greets the guests. He's also good at membership.

Prabhupāda: Gītār Gān has become popular.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Never mind. I'll... After hearing this book I'll let him know.

Jayapatākā: After they write everything, then I also read it in Bengali. I can... And if I see something that seems a little impersonal or something, I say that...

Prabhupāda: Correct it.

Jayapatākā: Yes, correct it. That much I can do.

Prabhupāda: Impersonal idea is in everyone's head. "God has no legs, no head. Simply he has got head."

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Commissioner: It is, no, we are giving it as dakṣiṇā.

Prabhupāda: No, dakṣiṇā. But they are chanting in exchange of dakṣiṇā. Because you are giving dakṣiṇā, therefore they are chanting. And you stop that dakṣiṇā, nobody will come.

Commissioner: True. You are correct. (laughs) That we have told them. If they teach their own children, hundred rupees for him for teaching, forty rupees for a child who learns.

Prabhupāda: That they will do, but when the hundred rupees will not be sufficient, they'll give up.

Commissioner: One thing is that at least one child is learning in each and every...

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say that is not the process. If you want to satisfy with money, and in exchange of money he wants to chant Vedas, that is not...

Commissioner: No, Swamiji, some of them didn't care either for the money.

Prabhupāda: Some of them maybe.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: Also, this is a part of nowadays. Advertise and all these things, to know each and every thing. This is correct that why you are worrying about all these things. People should know it about you. Why not hear it? This is perfectly right, I agree with you. But in the interest of other people who have faith in their religion...

Prabhupāda: No, our mission is that this Kṛṣṇa cult should be preached all over the world. That is the... Bhagavad-gītā, (indistinct) Find out this verse, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69).

Hari-śauri: Is that the one, "There's no one more dear to me than..."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in black Africa Prabhupāda has temples.

Krishna Modi: Yes, that is good.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I said even in black Africa you have temples and devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And people are not happy. They are terrorized.

Krishna Modi: That is correct. That is correct. In Parliament we are telling that they are a first-class prisoner. First-class prison.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First-class prisoners. Not first-class, third-class. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But I was told, because a lot of people in Russia who are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa also. It's very... There's a lot of corruption. Even the taxi drivers are corrupt. They'll park their taxi a bit away then come and approach you when you are standing in a line and say, "Okay, I'll take you there," but he'll tell you three times the price because everyone's waiting in such a long line for a taxi.

Prabhupāda: Black market.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: They may talk nonsense, but this is the fact. This is the fact. I have got my Book Trust Fund and I've advised regularly to send eight lakhs of rupees per month. That is being spent in Bombay, in... I'm not collecting from here.

Krishna Modi: That is correct.

Prabhupāda: So if an Indian brings from foreign country by his labor eight lakhs of rupees per month, how much credit he should be given? He should be recognized. But instead of recognizing they are criticizing.

Krishna Modi: This is their way, sir. They have to. They must do it. Because...

Prabhupāda: So you kindly speak to the Parliament that "This is the position, that he is working day and night..."

Krishna Modi: Oh no, I will speak very high about this. Let them, let the matter come. And if not come then we will take this matter. I will give the question. You please reply how much money is coming and in what way they are doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: That is perfectly correct. You must charge. If your members will get free.

Lokanātha: Yes. Each room has a fan, bath...

Prabhupāda: It is (indistinct).

Krishna Modi: That is perfect.

Prabhupāda: I think air-conditioned?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Some rooms are air-conditioned, two or three...

Prabhupāda: As far as your governor Reddy, he went. He stayed there two days. He has certified... He sent me a recent letter, you'll be surprised. Ask Harikeśa to bring that letter. Latest letter from Chatterjee.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: There is no difference. In the name of democracy this is the same thing. That's all.

Prabhupāda: No, democracy means the people must have political sense. Then democracy is there. If the people have no political sense, artificially they are giving vote, that democracy... Anyway, we are not political man, but so far whatever it may be, to change the present situation, I am confident if this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is taken seriously in India there will be very, very good thing. That is absolute. So we can take up this work provided there is little cooperation from the government.

Krishna Modi: Correct. So I will come to Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end)

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: I heard a story, Viśvāmitra once he grew people from trees. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Everything is possible by Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. It is called therefore "inconceivable." You, we cannot conceive how it is done. Our intelligence is very little. We cannot conceive. Therefore we say, "Oh, this is all mythology." Because we cannot conceive of it. Whatever we cannot conceive we take it as mythology. Nothing is mythology. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. But they cannot understand what is inconceivable. Unless it is conceivable by them, they do not accept. That is their foolishness. We can see at night worms or flies so small Just like if you divide one grain of rice into one hundred divisions one division—such a small fly. They are independently walking, flying. Freedom. Now just imagine how their anatomic physiology is manufactured within that small (indistinct) of life. But he's exactly doing everything just like a big fly. How it is doing? Therefore I said in that, my interview.

Room Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So let them come first of all here from Delhi.

Indian devotee: They come first here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Thing is, the whole thing has to be completed in three weeks because the American GBCs don't like... They think it is a very big loss financially. (Hindi) Book distribution stops completely. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Is that correct? Is that correct key?

Hari-śauri: This one's for some of the locks on the doors.

Prabhupāda: Which door?

Hari-śauri: Ah, from the... I think it was one on the bedroom originally. They may have taken them off again.

Prabhupāda: Find out the door.

Indian man: (Hindi conversation with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: ...special quality, he's very tolerant.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This practice is there in Vedic system. Not Vedic system, (indistinct), fall down. There is technical name. Fall down from the mountain. This is easier than other type of suicide. Because you simply once jump, but as soon as you fall, you forget everything. Suicide itself is very bad. This fall down, serotan (?) it is called.

Akṣayānanda: So one question I wanted to ask you in this connection, is that this Vinobha, fasting until death, until cow slaughter is stopped. So if he dies then he is guilty of murder. Is it correct. And if he's a brāhmaṇa, he is guilty of brahma-hatya. So by this fasting he is committing a greater sin than the actual killing of the cows.

Prabhupāda: You are right.

Akṣayānanda: And what is the gain?

Prabhupāda: And what he'll get it? Does he think that by his dying of starvation this cow-killing will be stopped? That is his foolishness.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (4): No, we don't think that we are big men.

Prabhupāda: No, no, everyone thinks that, not you. I don't say particular. Everyone thinks, "I know everything."

Indian man (4): No, no. We think that we are ignorant, petty creatures. Correct. And we know...

Prabhupāda: But if you think so, that you are ignorant petty creatures, then you take knowledge from the authority. Why don't you take it? What is the meaning that you think you are ignorant petty creature, at the same time, when the most learned person is giving you knowledge, Kṛṣṇa, you don't take it? What kind of...?

Indian man (4): But there are so many authorities presented to me. But there is the Bible, there is the Koran, there is...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, you are born in India. Why you are jumping to Bible? (laughter) This is another foolishness. You take care of your own house. You are jumping like monkey to Bible. (laughter)

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is rascals' theory. Nothing extinct.

Indian man (4): This is not correct.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like he says that man comes from monkey. Monkey is extinct? Where is the question of extinction? There is no question of extinction. There are different species of life, and according to your karma... Just like there are first-class, second-class, third-class compartments. If you pay for the first-class, you enter into first-class. You cannot say that third-class is extinct. According to your karma... Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). According to... As you pay. If you pay for third-class, you enter into third-class compartment. If you pay for first-class, you enter into first-class. So it is according to your karma you'll get a body. Why it should be extinct?

Indian man (4): Because it is extinct. We find there are those... fossilized...

Prabhupāda: You do not find. This is only... You simply repeat Darwin, that's all. You do not find. You do not see anything. You simply hear from Darwin. You have taken Darwin as your authority. But you don't take authority, Vedas. That is your fault.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Indoctrinization. Yes. Any kind of education is...

Hari-śauri: Whatever you teach someone, you teach according to whatever you see as the correct value.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The child goes to the school. His brain is packed up: "I shall play all day." He likes to play but it is indoctrinization that "No, you should read. You must become graduate."

Hari-śauri: Yes. And whatever country he's born in, he has to learn the culture of that country, he's indoctrinated.

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated." Similarly, this animal life, eating, sleeping, mating, this is already there. No. We say, "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Best thing will be send him back. He's incorrigible.

Yaśodānandana: Personally I had that boy with me for two months when I went to South India, preaching, and I thought it would be an asset to have a young boy, but he was so misbehaved that it was too much problem. And the same things that he was doing, in the beginning with me, telling lies and misbehaving, he is still doing now and he does not correct himself never. He has no effort to better his behavior or his conduct. He does not chant his rounds. He rarely comes to the kīrtana, or else when he comes to the kīrtana, he does not chant. He simply plays and makes fun. And it's very... He has a very bad influence on the other boys.

Prabhupāda: No, then he should be sent back. Or he can be sent to Bombay to work ordinarily. Or Hyderabad farm. Like that. Let him work on the ground.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Yaśodānandana: We could send him with Bhavānanda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that will be nice. He knows Bengali. Let him go to Bengal and keep him under Bhavānanda.

Jagadīśa: I think that he'll be a problem wherever he goes.

Prabhupāda: No, Bhavānanda will correct his problem.

Jagadīśa: I think Bhavānanda won't want to take him because he knows he's a problem.

Rūpa-vilāsa: Bhavānanda told me he did not want to see that boy again.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rūpa-vilāsa: Bhavānanda told me he did not want to see that boy again.

Pradyumna: In Māyāpur he had some girl...

Jagadīśa: In my opinion, the best thing is to make an example and beat him.

Prabhupāda: Yes, send him to farm, work in the field. If he does not work, beat him.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So which is correct Christianity we do not know. But we have no such thing. There is no party. Bhagavad-gītā, there cannot be any party. If anyone makes any party, he is immediately cancelled. But at least we believe in the Ten Commandments. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." But why all the Christians are simply busy in killing? That is my first question.

Dr. Kneupper: Not all of them.

Prabhupāda: 99%, they are maintaining all big, big slaughterhouse, all Christians. And Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill," but they are killing. What kind of Christian he is? Disobedience to the order of Christ? And still he is Christian? These things are going on. Then again party, this ism, that ism, that ism. First of all, all of them are disobeying the Ten Commandments, and then there are parties. So which one you'll accept?

Dr. Kneupper: There's no such diversity of interpretation of the Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from Bhagavad-gītā, I am talking of Christianity. How you can disobey the orders of Christ and you become Christian at the same time?

Dr. Kneupper: There's always people falling short of what their...

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then there will be no limit. There are so many, 600,000 interpretations. Then your life will be spend (indistinct) for collecting.

Devotee: If I want to go to Bombay, I must have the correct timetable. Not a false timetable.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, what Kṛṣṇa directs, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā means to hear the truth from the spiritual master. You take this. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna accepted, when he was puzzled whether to fight or not to fight, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. Śiṣyas te 'ham. "Now I don't want to talk or argue with You," because as soon as you become a śiṣya you have to accept the statement of the guru. That is the relationship between guru and śiṣya. You cannot talk with guru from the same level. Whatever guru says you have to accept. Otherwise don't accept guru. Don't make a fashion of taking guru just like you keep a dog. Guru, first of all you have to select. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to select such a person where you can fully surrender. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Arjuna like that. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all. "I have surrendered to you."

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Movement will spread, undoubtedly, because it is genuine.

Guest (2): It is spreading because we are liked.

Guest (1): No, sir, there you are also correct. I would say this, that these American boys and young girls who have come here, because this, our mind is conditioned into inferiority complex or slave-minded person, everything which is adopted there must be...

Prabhupāda: No, we are also slaves, but we are slave of the right person.

Guest (1): Yes, of the Supreme.

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. And they are slaves of their senses. That is the difference. We are not master. We are also slaves. But we are slaves of the person who is perfect, and they are slaves of their senses.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (2): The spread of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in Bombay in the last three, four years has been... I don't know, you may not be satisfied, but I think it's quite good.

Prabhupāda: No, it will be good. If people take to it little seriously, it will be good. Therefore we are spending so much money, that "You come, you all respectable and educated people. Come, try to understand and spread it for the benefit of your country."

Guest (1): But sir, your conclusion here is correct in the sense that they say that "Swami only says you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa what could be done?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, but they have no eyes to see how it is being done all over the world. They do not consider it, what...

Guest (1): How it's done, why it's done, what is the result. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Film-wala...? What is his name?

Girirāja: Devanand?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He purposefully criticized this movement by Hare Kṛṣṇa film.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So Indians, they can make their life perfect by following this Vedic literature, and they can lead the whole world. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. First of all you become perfect by taking lessons from the Vedic literature. And then you do good to others. But without making yourself perfect, if you try to do good to others, that is chaos. Then again comes, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Some blind men following another blind man. What will be the result? The present Indians, we have lost our own culture. We have rejected our own culture. Still we are leading people. There is chaotic condition. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to correct this mistake. So leaders like you should cooperate.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Sir, Śaṅkarācārya has made so many abstructs (obstructs?) for this bhakti. And I mean to follow it...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I'm talking of Kṛṣṇa. There are many other talkers. We are concerned because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means whatever Kṛṣṇa says, we accept. That is our philosophy. We may be fools and rascals, doesn't matter. But we accept what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all. Like a child, he's a child, he may be a fool. But when the father says, "My dear child, this is called microphone," and if the child says, "This is microphone," that is correct. Because he takes the word of the father who knows things. He may be child. So our business is like that. We don't claim ourself to be very learned, very advanced. We are fools and rascals. (break) "How can I become guru?" One may say. "I am not so learned, I am not so..." "No, no, you haven't got to bother. Still you can become guru." "How?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). If you simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said, then you become guru. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I do not hate you, but I beat you with shoes. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: No, you don't beat me with shoes. He never beat them the shoes. He said, "Well we don't like you." If I say, "Do this," and it is not good, I mean, I'm not wrong in that way I suppose. I'm open to correction.

Prabhupāda: No, no. English civilization is not good. What was the wrong? I say repeatedly again and again, he ruined the Manchester cloth business, he developed Ahmedabad cloth. The result is we poor men, we were paying one rupee six annas per pair, now we are paying thirty rupees. Money is going... Instead of going to the pocket of the Englishmen it is going to the pocket of Mahadevia. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I knew all these things but what I am? I have no position.

Dr. Patel: But what you have commented is correct. And the Bhagavad-gītā, real thing is man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Instead they directed their attention to karma and this and that. It was and similar thing...

Prabhupāda: But because they did not learn subject matter from ācārya. Yes. Ācārya, one has to learn from the ācārya.

Dr. Patel: Ācārya is one who ācāra, himself practices.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. One who knows and practices. Ācinoti śāstra. One who knows the real purpose. And there is no difficulty of understanding the real purpose. It is clearly said, everything. The process of knowledge is given, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). Where is that? In the beginning, "Oh, I am such a big leader, politician. Whatever I say is nice." Dambha. Dambha. Because he's thinking puffed-up falsely. Some rascal fools give them clap. (Prabhupāda claps) They think, "Oh, I have become very great."

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...learned scholar, English licensed. We know that Madanmohan Malhotra. In those days Surendranath Bannerji was a great orator. You have heard his name? Surendranath Bannerji. He is the practically father of Indian nationalism. So he was I.C.S., and in those days English scholar, His father was big doctor. Dr. Dugdhachandra Bannerji. So his speech, this Madanmohan Malhotra used to rote, cram, and before a mirror he would speak like this. "Oh..." In this way he became a politician. He was smārta-brāhmaṇa and he became a politician. Simply by imitating Surendranath Bannerji's speech.

Dr. Patel: Even those who are with Baroda Maharaj and all Maharaj's speeches were written by (indistinct) so one can (indistinct) These are your ideas Maharaj, "Well, everyone knows that I am writing it. It doesn't matter. I won't correct it." All the speeches given by Maharaj of Baroda was written by (indistinct). All, all, practically all. Here's a reference there. And he was a great scholar after all.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. He was English born. His father was medical man. Dr. Madanmohan Bannerji.

Dr. Patel: They say he did not know even Bengali properly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How he can? He was born in England. Educated in England. He was English-born.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The whole world is full of demons. And they are demons. Who declare himself, "I am God," he's a demon.

Dr. Patel: Only one who has actually realized Para-brahman and the, become the real (indistinct) of Brahman, he has got a right to say Brahma... Unless he becomes brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20).

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

Then he becomes brahma-bhūta. Otherwise he cannot become. Brahma-bhūta is the first stage. This they consider the final. I mean, that is my understanding. I don't know, I may be right or wrong. But I want to be corrected by you.

Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhūta... Jīva-bhūta, everyone is thinking, "I am this body." That is jīva-bhūta. And when understands that "I'm not body, I'm within the body," that is brahma-bhūta.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: And this was... That was also for the corrections. No, the price is about seventy-five cents.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Only thing I've told Jayatīrtha and Bali-mardana Prabhus to do is to open a letter of credit now because we are going to be exporting these Gītās at export price. And the bank is giving our printer a loan of ten lakhs. So he has to show the bank a letter of credit, so I hope they send it, and then this will start rolling. End of February is our first shipment. We're going to ship ten thousand Gītās.

Prabhupāda: Letter of credit you can get.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I hope they give it.

Prabhupāda: Bank of America will give.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): Yes, sir, that is right, no doubt. That is correct. So they should understand on where they wanted to go, what is their goal.

Prabhupāda: There is no goal. They think after this body everything is finished.

Guest (1): Endless life they are returning.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām eva param avyayam.

Guest (1): So we have to make them know that this is the wrong way, and this is the right way, and you have to go by this right way. And when you'll come to right way, he has to obey some discipline, obey some rules and rights. And there he wants nigraha. (break)

Prabhupāda: Is it possible to stop it? Or young men, if he says "No, no, I'm not going to..." but everyone wants that. Young man does not want to become old man, but by nature's law he has to become.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone must make mistake because a conditioned soul are liable to four defects. One of them is to commit mistake. One of them is to become illusioned. One of them, he is a cheater. And one of them, his senses are imperfect. So every conditioned soul who has got this material body, he is defective in these four things. Therefore he has to take knowledge from a person who has no defects. Then his knowledge will be perfect. Just like a small child, he is defective, but he receives the knowledge from the father: "This is called pencil." A child does not know what it is, but the father says, "My dear child, it is pencil." And if he says, "It is pencil," then it is correct, although he's a child, because he has received the knowledge from the person who knows it. Similarly, our principle is—that is Vedic principle-evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The knowledge has to be taken from the superior, liberated person.

Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ... (break) ...see you are a rogue. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Trivikrama: So you have analyzed Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Dr. Patel: I have. And I found that only bhakti is the real way. And to correct myself I read out all the Vaiṣṇava literature. I know this Sanskrit. And then I...

Prabhupāda: (aside) That's nice.(?) But first give me little cow's milk-cup—and put little flat rice, not too much, and little fruit. That's all.

Dr. Patel: So, sir, you are going by train to Kumbhamela.

Prabhupāda: I like train.

Dr. Patel: I would have accompanied you if you had gone by plane. I would lose lot of time going and coming. While coming back, you will come out to ten days, five days.

Prabhupāda: No. Train, first-class is very comfortable.

Dr. Patel: Yes, but here...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Marriage is, therefore, what is called primitive. Primitive. Modern marriage is primitive.

Dr. Patel: I think also that is correct. In your time, sir, you never used to see the girl from the year before the marriage. In our times, we never used to see the girl before the marriage. I never saw my wife. She was in Mahatma Gandhi's āśrama, and I was on this side. I never saw. And we lived very happily.

Prabhupāda: No, in my marriage, it was already settled. So one day I was going in cycle. So my father-in-law forcibly took me. (chuckles)

Dr. Patel: So those marriage, sir, sometimes they never forget.(?)

Prabhupāda: No. My wife was eleven years old.

Prabhupāda: That you cannot forget bad things unless you are engaged in good things.

Indian (1): Good things. Correct, correct. Correct.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). If you do not get good engagement, you cannot give up bad engagement. So similarly, if you do not forget your constitutional position, then the bad things cannot be forgotten. So our position is that we are part and parcel of God.

Indian (1): Of the Almighty.

Prabhupāda;: Yes. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body. So this finger, I say, "Finger come here. Itch here," so it is doing that. And if it is... If it cannot do, then it is diseased. If there is some painless, painfulness or some sore, then immediately I cannot do it. So that means I am part and parcel of God. If I cannot serve God, then I am diseased. That is material condition. So material condition... Suppose this finger is diseased. So you poke up, applying some ointment and going to the doctor. This is one business. And when it is cured, when it is actually engaged in service, that is healthy state. So this social work without serving God is just like applying ointment to the diseased part of the... It has no value, practical value. If it... It has got value, provided it is cured, to serve the whole body. So if the finger is not so cured to serve the whole body, then it remains diseased. You go on applying ointment; it has no use. Similarly, to serve humanity means if you can raise him to the consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then, then, then it is right. And if you keep him in ignorance—you go on all kinds of human service—it is all useless.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Change means we have lost our culture.

Indian (1): They have lost culture, yes.

Prabhupāda: This is change.

Devotee: So Śrīla Prabhupāda is offering the real Indian culture...

Indian (1): Yes, that is correct. We have to fulfill all these things. We have to teach them, we have to guide them, advise them, make them study, for that purpose conducting some classes in Sanskrit in the Hindu community... (break)

Prabhupāda: He has allowed us to go to the United... (break) ...assembly to enlighten them. So we, are going there. Recent letter? Where is...? (end)

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is their purpose?

Gurudāsa: Their purpose is feeding a small group of sādhus that are in that area who want to be far off. Ekadaṇḍi. And they feed... The prasādam is good, that they give. He was correct. They are giving capatis and dhal to everyone.

Prabhupāda: Eating must be very nice, clean.

Gurudāsa: Yes. And respectable. We'll do it. (break)

Prabhupāda: I thought we could save the expenditure. But that is not possible.

Gurudāsa: No, we wouldn't actually save so much because the time it would take for the devotees to go there to eat prasādam is three hours, and then the tents are not so good. It would mean a savings of six hundred or eight hundred rupees on tents, and it's completely impractical.

Prabhupāda: And besides that, the Māyāvādīs... Eh? Inconvenience.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu went there.

Devotee (1): He went to Manipur then.

Gurudāsa: Wasn't it one of the times he was going to Vṛndāvana but didn't go, then He went to Manipur? Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: I do not know. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go and preach in eastern Bengal. And His original paternal house is in Sylhet.

Dr. Patel: It is in Assam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. His forefathers from Sylhet. Jagannātha Miśra, His father came from Sylhet to Navadvipa for studying. Then Nilambara Cakravartī got him married with his daughter, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mother. And he resided in Nabadwip.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: I'll leave it up to him, as he prefers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's coming, don't stop him. That is...

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've got a letter here from Jayādvaita and from Jagannātha dāsa regarding some corrections. These are two books that are in production right now. So would it be all right to ask you them?

Prabhupāda: What is that book? (break) Sarvātmana yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam. Factually Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate shelter. If he has taken that shelter, he's free, immune. And that Kṛṣṇa has confirmed here. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then if he gives such a duty, he's liable to fall down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ... "Because you are giving up all other duties, don't think that you'll be liable to punishment. I'll give you protection." So the conclusion is: if one is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he's obliged to do his duty. This is the easiest way to become free from all obligation—to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That, I think, duśyanta-rāja?

Pradyumna: Duśyanta-rāja. Duśyanta-rāja.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Thing is, I only wanted you to give...

Prabhupāda: No, you convince him. If he recommends, I'll give you. He is businesslike. I know him. So if he recommends, I'll give. He's very correct to his word. Businessman is correct to his word. That is the... No speculation. Now our Hyderabad affair is not in very order.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: So what to do? Rāmeśvara, you are here. You can see. They are not cooperating. And besides that, Mahāṁsa takes loan. He never returns. He has taken about five lakhs for the temple. So I have already told to the auditor and the... They are (indistinct). This is going on.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we are working...

Prabhupāda: So you keep account in such a way that whatever income it is, it is spent for books. Print some... You also do there. Whatever income you get, you spend for promotion. This principle should be followed. All businessmen are doing that. Whatever income is there, it is spent for maintenance establishment. That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It is very bad.

Rāmeśvara: In the future this is something that we should try to correct.

Prabhupāda: You should introduce coin, real money.

Hari-śauri: Real gold coins. No paper.

Prabhupāda: Anyone has got money... It is fact. And what is this nonsense, keeping some paper and thinking he has got money? How cheating it is going on, from government's side. And therefore artificial inflation. You can print, so the price is increased. Because you haven't got to pay him real money, you print and pay him, and he will ask, "Give me this money. Then I'll supply." "All right, take." You print and pay.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is the answer—just to delude them, cheat them. They want to remain atheist—"All right, remain atheist. Suffer," janmani janmani, "life after life." This is the real explanation. Is that correct answer? But still, there is some argument. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya (BG 7.25). This is the idea. "Why shall I reveal Myself to this atheist class?" Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). "Let them remain asuras."

Hari-śauri: Should I read the purport?

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?

Hari-śauri: "It may be argued that since Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth and was visible to everyone, then why isn't He manifest to everyone now? But actually He was not manifest to everyone. When Kṛṣṇa was present there were only a few people who could understand Him to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (break)

Prabhupāda: If one understands, then he becomes immediately liberated. And the atheists, they cannot understand, so they remain always conditioned. If actually one understands Kṛṣṇa's, he's liberated immediately. He's simply waiting for changing this body. That's all. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). One who has understood Kṛṣṇa is liberated. Jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate: "Even in this life he is mukta." Find out that, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. "You rascal, if you could understand Kṛṣṇa, then immediately you would have been liberated. And if you were liberated, then you would not ask this question. You do not know Kṛṣṇa, neither it is possible for you to understand Kṛṣṇa. You remain in darkness."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Seems only the Indian scholars have got that vision, though. Only the Indian scholars have appreciated that these books have a chance for saving the whole humanity.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is our mission. We want to save.

Rāmeśvara: Here. "The set edition of the Bhāgavata series we hope will serve as a boon to the English-knowing world for its abiding values and ennobling thoughts of spiritual perspective to give the correct lead to mankind in the midst of sickening contemporary problems."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission. Who has written that?

Gargamuni: That's Dr. Krishna Gopal Gosvāmī.

Rāmeśvara: Head of the Department of Sanskrit at Calcutta University.

Prabhupāda: He has got good experience because university students they have become so rascal. In the university they don't care for professors, teachers. Don't care.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: You read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Because Gandhi or Vinobha or Vivekananda or Aurobindo, they did not come in the paramparā system. They have made themselves important by their own ideas. That we want to check. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You cannot make any amendment or correction in the Bhagavad-gītā. But these people, unfortunately, they take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and give their own comment.

Mr. Pandiya: To suit their purposes.

Prabhupāda: That's all. This is the dangerous... And they are considered as big men, and people follow, and they are misled. Otherwise, in India, so much fallen condition due to these rascal leaders. That I am speaking repeatedly, although it may be very harsh. But we have to say that. Everyone has distorted. Gandhi says Kurukṣetra, "this body." Where is the chance of talking of "this body," the Kurukṣetra? Has he not?

Guest (1): Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1) (Indian man): ...cultural affairs, Orissa government. Here there is a large stack of palm leaf manuscripts. Palm leaf manuscripts. We are editing the Sanskrit manuscripts, correcting them and publishing them.

Prabhupāda: Sanskrit?

Guest (1): Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: It is published in Sanskrit?

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Palm beach?

Guest (2) (Indian man): Palm leaves.

Hari-śauri: Some manuscripts on palm leaf.

Prabhupāda: Oh, palm leaf.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Nobody believes in Lenin. Then there would have been everyone Communist. You believe, a section. Then why there are two parties? You are not all in all. That is going on everywhere. How you can say that you are correct, I am not correct? The process is the same. Therefore Vivekananda has compromised, "Everyone is correct." Yato mata tato patha. There is no quarrel.

Gurukṛpā: Then they accuse us of being fanatical.

Prabhupāda: You are also fanatical. Why do you believe Lenin? You are fanatical in our eyes. You are worse than fanatical because we have got great other authorities—they believe Kṛṣṇa is God. You have created a section recently, but we have got evidences from thousands and thousands of years ago, authorities believing Kṛṣṇa. Our literatures are very old. Your literature recently made.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: All debauch. Because they're getting fat salary. What they'll do? They do not know how to use it. Wine, woman, restaurant, dance-finish. So we have got very pessimistic view of this modern world. You may like or not. Simply spoiling time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply work without any profit of the human form of life. And nobody is interested to correct the procedure. If we try to correct them, they will accuse us that "These people are brainwashed. They deviating these young men from the general procedure of human civilization." Hm? What is this? Illicit sex stopped? Then where is life? This is life, if young boys and young girls mix freely and have sex, and as soon as she is pregnant, you go away, let her suffer, no responsibility. The poor girl, long before, father, mother divorce—no protector. And as soon as she selects somebody husband, and as soon as pregnancy, he goes away. And old age—there is no family, no son. Ninety-nine percent the woman class live like that. How hopelessly the old ladies are sitting down—only one cat, one dog, one television. The old men also like that, hopelessness. Or drinking or seeing the television. And a dog friend. Is that life? And we want to correct it—"brainwash."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (corrects a word ) You first accept these ten different methods. So explain that.

Pradyumna: Guru-pādāśrayaḥ. "First one must take shelter of the lotus feet of a spiritual master." Tasmāt kṛṣṇa-dīkṣādi-śikṣaṇam. Tasmāt, "from him," kṛṣṇa-dīkṣādi-śikṣaṇam, "one should take kṛṣṇa-dīkṣā, initiation, and śikṣā."

Prabhupāda: Dīkṣā means divya-jñānaṁ kṣapayati iti dīkṣā.(?) Which explains the divya-jñāna, transcendental, that is dīkṣā. Di, divya, dīkṣāṇām. Dīkṣā. So divya-jñāna, transcendental knowledge... If you don't accept a spiritual master, how you'll get transcen... You'll be taught here and there, here and there, and waste time. Waste time for the teacher and waste your valuable time. Therefore you have to be guided by an expert spiritual master.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Tch tch. Just see.

Gurukṛpā: They feel that if you are not... If you are inhibited in your sex life, if you only choose women, then you are not progressive. You must become liberated from these moral or, they call it, "hang-up" feeling. This is not correct. Now they drive their children to the homosex dance, the parents, and let the boy out, and he goes into the homosex dance. Only men allowed. They take them there.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. In Los Angeles. They have only for boys, young men, age seventeen, sixteen, eighteen, nine... Their parents take them, and they let them out of the car, and they pick them up later on in the night.

Prabhupāda: Advancement.

Gurukṛpā: Yes. Advancement of the pig.

Prabhupāda: It is horrible to hear even. Therefore para-upakāra. The rascals are less than the asses and dogs. Therefore to give them Kṛṣṇa is the best para-upakāra.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: It is authorized from the Hindu religious point of view, and it is accepted by the world scholars. So they cannot deny. It is authorized, no, authorized; I can give any statement, and it is up to you to consider. But you have to consider whatever statement. And actually that is done. You have accused me that I have stolen your watch. This is your charge against me. First of all I say, "Oh, this is false charge. I never did it." Now you have to prove that I did it. Naturally this is done. Whatever charges you..., "I've never... I don't accept these charges." Otherwise where there is case? If you charge me with something and if I immediately accept, then where is the case? My statement will be "No, no, I never did so." Now you have to prove that "Yes, I did." That takes time. It is not so easy. You have to give witnesses. You have to give so many things that "Yes, I stole it." But my duty will be: as soon as you charge me, I will say, "No, I never did it." So whatever statement I give, you have to..., the judge has to accept and then scrutinize who is correct. The complainant is correct or the defendant is correct? That is his business.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's right. Then learn it from me. Otherwise, if you refuse, then you must be punished. That is my duty.

Hari-śauri: You were just saying that a person who's not religious, he's no better than an animal, but he might argue that even the animals have a right to live undisturbed.

Prabhupāda: No, animal... Right to live with animal is subjected to be punished, just to live rightly. Suppose a cow comes with his horn like that. He must be punished immediately, the atrocity.(?) Then he'll be corrected.

Hari-śauri: But there are so many animals living in the jungle who don't...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, jungle, we have no business to go there. We have rejected jungle. Let them live there. But in the human society, if the animal disturbs, it must be punished—with stick.

Satsvarūpa: What about say a Buddhist who practices ahiṁsā...?

Prabhupāda: Now, Buddhist... I say there is no question of "Buddhist," "Christian." One must know what is God.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Bhāgavata: Out of love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not by enviousness. Chastisement means correction. He's in the wrong way; he is corrected to the right way. So gradually you have to take the power of the king to correct the whole human society. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). That is Kṛṣṇa's business, to give protection to the right person and to chastise the wrong person, two things required, side by side. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. And dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Three, another. By chastising the wrongdoer and by giving protection to the right man, and then establish what is real religion. And then Kṛṣṇa's mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is perfect. Three things: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi. This is Kṛṣṇa's business. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā, everything will be nice, everything.

Satsvarūpa: Nowadays coming to power usually means some violent revolution or political maneuvers.

Prabhupāda: They are trying also to correct, but they do not know how to correct. That is the defect. And therefore we take this authority, that "Here everything is correct." Everyone is trying to remodel, but they do not know how to remodel. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is speaking as person. (break)

Devotee (1): ...possibility that there is a soul and that there is a God. But when... I showed them a Fifth Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and they were reading about the structure of the universe in the Bhāgavatam, and this was completely opposite to all their experiments. So if this is actually a fact, then why can't it be proved experimentally that the Bhāgavatam statements on the origin of the universe and so on are correct?

Prabhupāda: It is correct. How they can prove it is incorrect?

Devotee (1): Well they say that by mathematics we can prove the position...

Prabhupāda: So we have got our mathematics also. (break) ...workers. In the beginning I was alone. Now we have got so many things. So we shall come out triumphant.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's Prabhupāda's mercy.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This professor of mine, he was very much against at the beginning of the theory. Then, when I gave this lecture, he invited me for home, in his home, and his wife supported our theory, so he came around, saying that "Yes, science says earth is only 4.5 billion years old, and there are so many defects. So they have to accept that "No, we cannot be correct." So people are coming around slowly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra, vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra; (CC Adi 8.15) "Just see what kind of merciful is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and if you consider it perfectly, you'll see it it wonderful." Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. "Oh, here is Caitanya." Caitanya. Caitanya means living force.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Force because ātmā is independent. He can live in the spiritual world or in the material world as he likes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But is not correct, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Paramātmā is the...

Prabhupāda: Paramātmā is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...is behind.

Prabhupāda: Yes, behind, yes. He's the origin of ātmā. Mamaivāṁśa. Kṛṣṇa said, "This ātmā is my small particle part." He says that. So Paramātmā is the origin, and these are fragmental parts of Paramātmā.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That makes our statement very valid.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ātmā... Super-ātmā is the source of ātmā.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Every business is important. Brāhmaṇa business is important, kṣatriya... Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased. If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, "Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain." No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varṇāśrama. They do not know that. Sometimes they are giving stress... That communist is giving stress to the śūdra class, and the capitalist are giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied. Everything is disorder. There are two classes of men now-capitalist and communist. The communist is giving stress, "No. Simply the legs shall be taken care." What is called? Proly?

Hari-śauri: Proletariat.

Prabhupāda: What is that proletariat?

Satsvarūpa: The laborers.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes, they said it. In the newspaper it was reported.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they say, "It is spreading like epidemic." What is that?

Devotee: Little more? (sound of eating)

Prabhupāda: What is that civilization? Do they think that civilization is correct?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that they are the most advanced civilization ever. This is the topmost yet. Man is becoming more and more evolved, from the ape until now. This is the pinnacle so far.

Prabhupāda: And what you have gained? Criminals, fire brigade, always "dungdungdungdungdungdung," in every big city. And criminality increasing. Do you think it is civilization? Always anxious, and covering yourself by drinking, intoxicated. In New York street you would go out ordinary-hell! Two sides hell.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So one hundred thousand you'll have to sell within three months.

Jayatīrtha: That's correct, yes. We're also selling many medium books.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: We're selling many Īśopaniṣads, and now we're printing also Nectar of Instruction and Perfection of Yoga for distribution.

Prabhupāda: Hm. You have already ordered for printing?

Jayatīrtha: We've already printed Īśopaniṣads, and just now they're preparing Nectar of Instruction and Perfection of Yoga for printing.

Prabhupāda: In London there are very big, big press.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, it is nice.

Bali-mardana: I think you saw Them when you went there. They were there last time, you went. Right? Prabhupāda: The face is inproportionate. Bali-mardana: Proportion is not correct. Prabhupāda: Anyway, this is an attempt. It will improve by doing more work. Why there is no light in the veranda? (break) Satsvarūpa: ...here. And at the end is a full report on Germany. That's the last country. (break) ...who actually began the standing orders in India. That's what... They began the year after festival last year in India and then began Europe. Bhūgarbha: Gargamuni Mahārāja told us that it was not possible to do standing orders in India. So we started it, and now he has taken over. Ghanaśyāma: (laughter) (break) They want to buy the book themself. (break) ...and sell them to individuals. Prabhupāda: That I was proposing.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So these things can be discussed. Of course, I could not read. Those who have pointed out the defects, so let them come and then discuss.

Rāmeśvara: No, if there's some defect, it must be corrected.

Prabhupāda: So... No...

Rāmeśvara: But if it can be done without...

Prabhupāda: Whatever is there... They have pointed out some defect, so in the presence of them you discuss. Then I shall give my decision.

Hari-śauri: That should be done in front of Your Divine Grace?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Let them... Let them do together.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. That's the system actually. There are some other... There actually is a big department. There are about eight or nine boys. They're all getting very good. Now Jagannātha had some questions on corrections in the book. In verse twenty-eight it says, "Then he worshiped Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn."

Prabhupāda: Where it is? Brahma-saṁhitā?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rādhā-vallabha: So it says, "Then he worshiped Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn."

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Rādhā-vallabha: It's verse twenty-eight, "Then he worshiped Śrī Kṛṣṇa." So Jagannātha said it should be, "Then he worshiped..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Jagannātha cannot correct. That bad habit he must give up.

Prabhupāda: Nothing of the... This of should be strictly forbidden.

Rādhā-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.

Prabhupāda: They can divide the synonyms. That's all.

Rādhā-vallabha: Synonyms. So even...

Prabhupāda: That is his tendency, to correct. That's very bad. He should not do that.

Rādhā-vallabha: So I'll just forget this, then.

Prabhupāda: The system is: whatever authority has done, even there is mistake, it should be accepted.

Rādhā-vallabha: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Asa-prāya(?) That is ha... He should not become more learned than the authority. That is very bad habit.

Rādhā-vallabha: So, also in the songbook... We will have to reprint that soon. The way it is now, I remember you also once told me that Acyutānanda makes mistakes in the Bengali. And the Sanskrit department, Jagannātha and the others, say that there are a lot of mistakes that they would like to correct. Is that all right? Do you want synonyms? Do you want synonyms in the songbook? No? Okay. We are also doing a very nice cookbook. Yamunā is doing it. I passed on the instruction that you left in Madhya-līlā that the recipes at Advaitācārya's house should be included. She's gotten practically all of those. She's going to put the cookbook together in such a way that it will be an example for Deity worship for all the temples, and we hope to have that finished this year sometime. That's all right?

Prabhupāda: Last time Acyutānanda was given some money. Still the same arrangement is there?

Rādhā-vallabha: I'm not giving him any money.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prabhupāda: So Jagannātha-sūta should be strictly advised not to become very learned to correct authorities. No.

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha dāsa.

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha? He is Jagannātha-sūta or where he is?

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha-sūta is Back to Godhead. Jagannātha dāsa is Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's it. He should not be very learned.

Rādhā-vallabha: I think that instruction you gave will help him very much about even if he thinks there is some mistake, just forget about it.

Prabhupāda: He is mistake. He should not think his authority mistake.

Prabhupāda: Don't allow him to do anything.

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, now that this system of no corrections anywhere, that makes it very simple. Then he can't do anything. I don't think he wants to, either. It makes it more simple for him. It makes him very uncomfortable.

Prabhupāda: No corrections. He can write that synonym, that's all, according to the translation. Who is writing the synonym?

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. According to the translation. Not that he becomes a greater scholar than my Guru Mahārāja.